October 10, 2024 • 57 mins
We meet TreeSpace Kapiti.
Viola Palmer, and Geoff Scrase, two members of TreeSpace Kapiti introduce us to this new urban tree advocacy group.
Advocating the importance of tree canopy quality in urban areas for well-being, suburban temperature cooling, and carbon sequestration, they also discuss their latest local planting project, the Miyawaki tiny forest concept.
Viola Palmer, and Geoff Scrase, two members of TreeSpace Kapiti introduce us to this new urban tree advocacy group.
Advocating the importance of tree canopy quality in urban areas for well-being, suburban temperature cooling, and carbon sequestration, they also discuss their latest local planting project, the Miyawaki tiny forest concept.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, this is Rousland Derby from Local Architecture Now. And
for August we have Viola Palmer and Jeff's Grace who
(00:24):
are from tree Space and tree Space is a group
that I belong to. Hi, Jeff High, Viola, Hi, it's
lovely to have you. We're going to hear all about
tree Space, It's aspirations and tensions and the projects that
are underway. Jeff is the cheaperson current chairperson. Viola is
(00:46):
the activist among us.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
How did you really first become get this tree Space
up and running? What was the history of or how
did it become?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
In November twenty two, I wrote an article in the
local paper, the Captain News, because I was aghast at
the tree felling, which I had noticed since the rules
about intensification in the area had been brought in. And
(01:26):
to my surprise, that article gained me support. People got
back to me and said, you know, we're really worried
about this too. I had a lot of responses and
so it was out of that that the tree Space
group started. I got in touch with those people and
asked them if they were interested in meeting me. So yes,
they came around to my place and the group started
(01:49):
after that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And I was lucky enough to be introduced by Penny
who told me this this group was going, and I
came along and a group of Lake.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Mine Yes, and Viola gave a short presentation at the
end of a forest and bird meeting, didn't you Viola?
And that's when I heard about the concern about trees
and I am also concerned about trees, so I talked
to Viola about it and was brought on board. That
was around June last year, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And then in July I was asked to chair the group,
and so we've been working pretty hard since then.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yes, we have.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It's a monthly meeting. Anybody who's interested in joining.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And so what let's say, what does trees space? Lots
of lots of goals, lots of aspirations. How would you
like to kick off? Was a description of where we're heading.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Okay, Well, we set ourselves up primarily as an advocacy
group to put pressure on the likes of the council,
developers and Zaida and anybody really who's going to be
modifying land. So we've made submissions, we've had meetings with
(03:10):
the council, they've been very supportive. They've actually come along
to some of our meetings. And we're only a fairly
young group, but already we've got some support for a project.
We have approached nz TA about use of their land
(03:31):
without success, i must say, unfortunately. But as I say,
we've got quite a lot of support from the.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Council and one of the things was the tree canopy
in capity, isn't it. That's there's a whole sort of
principle around that.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That's right, yes, As Viola has has just mentioned, we're
sad to see lots of trees disappearing and we'd like
to put pressure on the council and others to develop
a or create a decent tree canopy. The tree canopy
on the Capital Coast has been reported at about six
(04:11):
to ten percent, which is a very low level in comparison,
Wellington City has something like thirty percent. Now, that is
the sort of target that we would be aiming for,
and there is an international recommendation for something that's called
(04:32):
the three thirty three hundred approach, in which anyone living
in a dwelling should be able to see three mature
trees from that dwelling. The thirty represents thirty percent canopy cover.
This is in urban areas as well, not just parks.
(04:53):
And the three hundred is that within three hundred meters
of a dwelling there should be a decent open space.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, three three hundred.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yes, as I say, that has been adopted as a
target by many municipalities around the world.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yes, so tree space is looking and it does a
sort of research or is aware party ula of how
things the tree approach, tree protection, tree canopy and possibly Auckland,
New Zealand, and elsewhere in the world, and you have
a sort of background and understanding as part of tree
Space's information base. Yes, even densely populated cities like Singapore
(05:40):
have got very good tree canopy cover. And I think
Singapore and Tampa and Florida in the United States these
are the leaders. But other cities are planting huge numbers
of trees in Paris, and it seems that trees are
valued in other parts of the world in a way
which reluctantly they're not here. Is it you sort of feel,
(06:04):
you know, we're supposed to be the great green New Zealand,
but you go to other cities and they have these big,
old mature trees right in the heart of the CBD
on lining the streets meeting in the middle of the
leaf canopy? Is it our pioneering tree cutting, you know,
cutting the trees down, pioneering spirit that's still alive in
our DNA or something.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I'm afraid so, and cutting trees with chainsaws has made
it so much easier than the pioneers did it.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yes, that's right. You were just talking just a minute
ago about a disappointing filling of a coli a NAO.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
When I noticed recently that a very prominent carry, which
I would judge was about thirty years old, and a
beautiful tree in why can I has been felled, So
there's at least thirty years gross gone in half a
day probably, yes.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yes, and not too long ago there was a sectional
or part of a section again and Why can I
that was cleared of at least a dozen trees. And
of those trees I could see maybe two or three
might have been might have had to be cleared for
development purposes, But why cut them all down? On that?
(07:18):
And some of them were valuable trees? We talk about value,
and I don't think that private people do value the
trees really as much as they should, because there are
significant benefits in having trees. There's the cooling effect, there's
(07:40):
the retention of water or water control, there's the biodiversity,
and there are many other benefits.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Because currently well yes, I mean, trees also provide beauty,
which is good for human world, and that's been well researched.
They filter out pollutants, They soak up water so that
in a flood there's not such so much flood damage.
(08:13):
What else do they do that currently?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
That The current concern is about carbon emissions, isn't it?
And a good tree canopy is a tool to look
towards our reduction and.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Carbon emissions exactly. They sequest the carbons. And mature trees
are particularly valuable because of that. Yes, and mature trees,
I mean some of them are two or three hundred
years old, and we're not going to grow in those.
Planting five new trees isn't going to do the function
that those old trees have done. So we need to
(08:48):
be far more mindful of the value of trees and
what they can do for us.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I completely agree, I mean I live and way can
I And because there is a remarkable amount of BirdLife
because of the sort of greater There are the pockets
bush areas around why can I which encourage toy and
they do move around the garden area, particularly the toy
and it's a joy and.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
It is well being.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It gives a sense of home and peace in your
own backyard rather than having to rush off somewhere else
to get that experience.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yes, yes, and Viola has pointed out that there is
going to be a gap between the planting of trees
now and the mature trees that are being cut down.
We need at least thirty years for some of the
new new ceilings and saplings to grow into decent trees
(09:45):
and provide that canopy. We'd also like to see corridors
in tree planting connect the Hemi martinga forest, for example,
all the way to the coast. If we could, we
can bring that wildlife down from the from the forest,
or in fact encourage it to go back to the forest.
(10:08):
And there's quite a bit of trapping in the forest.
But if you walk in the on Hemi Martina you
don't actually hear very much bird life.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
You do down in the garden. The area of why
can I remark, why is it because people think two
is like people.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I wonder, well, I think some two years, Well, some
of the nectar feeders, of course are being fed, which
they're not in on the forest in Hemi Martina. But
so if we can increase the population here and improve trapping,
for example on Hemi Martina, yes, then maybe we can
(10:46):
encourage them to move back up the hill.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And that gives me a sense of history as well.
I mean that gives you gets you right back to
the history of why can either whole pre European or
earlier the whole Mari experience of love the hills to
the sea and yeah, reconnecting the hills to the sea.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yes, forestation, Yes, we have some concerns about development that's
going on.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
The intensification, of course, leads to an awful lot of
impervious surfaces, and we'd like that of course, is going
to cause problems in water runoff. And if one can
introduce trees in those areas, then we've got a bit
more control at least on the water on the water table.
(11:36):
But also developers tend to pay lip service to the
planting of trees, and I wish that they would actually
value the placement of those trees the area of those trees,
where the pockets are going to be, and what they're
actually going to do to enhance the biodiversity and the
(12:00):
horridor system and also provide at least a decent amount
of canopy cover eventually.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yes, why do you think there is a less of
an interest or less of a concern in New Zealand
compared to you. I mean, I think I arrived in
say like Portland, Oregon, and my hostel was like a
few streets back from the agtional main street, and it
was lined with trees ancient This was midsummer all and
(12:27):
leaf and that's right in the heart of the city.
And there wasn't the concern that the leaves were getting
in people's gutters or it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Was just there. Yes, and another city of Prague absolutely
beautiful with the chestnuts or flowering. So it is happening elsewhere,
But in New Zealand we have still to learn how
to build around trees and to value them instead of
coming in and cutting them down and putting down our concrete,
(12:56):
to actually build around the trees and see what they're
doing to enhance the building that's being put in. But
there doesn't seem to be that esthetic approach among developers. Well,
I shouldn't generalize, but they do usually want to get
maximum returns for their development and that means doesn't mean
(13:22):
keeping trees. So we need to value trees more in
some way. And Tree Space as an advocacy group is
working towards connection with council, isn't it, And in this
way is trying to build a kind of strong connection
with council to promote yes And unfortunately at present there
(13:45):
is very little protection for trees. It's really only if
they have a covenant placed on them and that requires
a group of trees, not just one that they are
protected in any sense. So what was the what's the
work that we've been doing on indigenous the mapping that
all the research you've been doing on notable and indigenous trees.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Well, we do know that the Council has a list
of what they call key Indigenous trees and they've done
some good work on that and there are hundreds of
trees listed as key Indigenous trees and that provides some protection.
There's also the Notable Trees List, which is a national
list and it's something that Auckland, the Auckland Tree Council
(14:33):
is promoting very strongly. In fact, they've just gone through
their fourth period of collecting nominations for notable trees and
that number is up to one hundred and ninety nine Now. Unfortunately,
on the Capital Coast, the Council is not considering any
(14:55):
applications for notable trees. We would hope that fairly soon
they would start doing that again. That would provide protection
for trees on private land. The private landowner can nominate
any tree as a notable tree. It will have to
(15:15):
go through a fairly rigorous assessment as to whether it
can gain notability. But it could be a deciduous tree,
could be an evergreen, it could be an exotic So
if there are the people out if there are people
out there who really value the trees that they have,
then they could perhaps get in touch with us and
(15:38):
talk about maybe creating a list of notable trees which
we can build up as a resource and approach the council.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
With Okay, so tree space could be the advocate could
be mediating with local landowners and then bringing that information
to council.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
That's valuable. Yes, yes, there.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Is something called q E two Covenant as well, which
is available to private landowners, and that I think provides
more protection even than the Key Indigenous Tree list and
the notable tree list.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So notable trees are not necessarily key indigenous trees.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
No, they don't have to be.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And then notable.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Because the owners feel that they would like to protect
their particular tree and they and they do an application
and go through a certain process.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yes, it might be because the owner feels that that
particular tree is particularly beautiful, or it may have significance
in terms of in terms of representing an Ewi belief,
or it might even be a memorial to somebody, so
(16:57):
they could nominate it. From those points of view.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I mean, so I was surprised that Kapiti has a
lower tree camerapy. It's quite such a low tree canopy percentage.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yes, why can I is It looks nice and green,
and that's one of the things that attracted me to
Why can I in the first place. But Paraparumu has
less tree colored than we have in Why and I.
So yeah, there are large areas of land which are
devoid of trees.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I remember one day walking along doing my usual walk
along the way can I River, and I used to
love walking past that, but beside the Christrian Center with
his massive poplar, which of course aren't they're exotic, and
I used to feel like I was walking into one
of those French Impressionist paintings that you see with the
poplars along the river. And I always just dive into Morow.
(17:52):
And one day there was a Hezard fence up and
they said, or you can't walk here. So I rang
up Greater Well intoon and they said, oh, I said,
I was about you know, I was actually going there
to take photos of this particular part, and said it's
too late.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Now they will have all gone.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
And so yeah, I mean, I guess potentially branches falling
off these popular was a reason for felling the whole row.
But they just completely took out a whole aspect of
that river for safety of falling branches. Yeah, and now
the poor horses are there in the blinding heat, in
the afternoon heat. They've got no tree cover.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I do wonder if the assessment is perhaps a little
too rigorous, and that they could give a bit more
thought before chopping the trees down.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I wonder why, yeah, but did you not have did
you not set up a beautiful bush area is yes,
you found a vacant piece of land or your own land.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
No, that it was. It was land that we bought
and planted with trees. And it did get recognized by
the Queen Elizabeth Trust and has got a covenant on
it and the present owners are looking after it very nicely.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yes, and that was quite a big area of land
subject was just planted. Yes, empty land. It had been
horse grazing paddocks and you planted it and we planted it.
And when we first approached the Queen Elizabeth Trust for
a covenant, they came out and had a look at
it and said, oh, no, we can't covenant somebody's dream
(19:28):
because the trees went very big. And then about ten
years later we invited them again and they came out
and said, oh, yes, we'll covenant this and can we
have our Christmas party here?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, a big change in attitude over that time. Is
it a public that's on private profit but adjacent to
it as another piece of council property which we also
instigated the planting of I think I think twenty five
years ago now, Yes, and the trees they are yes,
(20:02):
so it can be down because I know some people
who live in that area King Arthur Drive or somewhere
walked me through. I was surprised it was even there,
and obviously to think that it wasn't there previously is remarkable.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yes, it is a pretty area, and really we have
to take our hats off to the twenty seven or
so restoration groups on the Kapiti coast. They're doing wonderful
work planting hundreds even thousands of trees. But they're all young.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
They're all young. The trees trees young people are not
young unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yes, it's the older ones who are planting them. And
I would appeal to people out there who to come
and join us, the younger people. We need some succession
in our groups. Were not just with the planting, but
we're also keeping the groups going. Yeah, but as as
(21:00):
Elder said, some of the trees that they've been planting
for twenty five years are quite tall now, but there
are thousands of trees that have been planted that are
still only a few feet high.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
And do they need protection from public hazard or vandalism
or well, if they're on council land they will be protected. Okay, Yeah,
they're looking up and so I know that we're in.
The conversation within tree Space was saying what is our group?
I mean that there are so many wonderful conservation and
(21:34):
ecology groups in Capiti. That was a conversation that was had,
wasn't it as how do we create our own sort
of autonomy or what's the point of what's.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
The meaning of tree space compete? I mean, and how
do we contribute to the greater whole of all of
the other groups that are so active.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yes, well, if we can work alongside some of the
other groups in our advocacy role, that would help in
some ways. Many of the other groups are so busy
doing their own thing that it's rather difficult to actually
combine some of our effort. But if we can work
(22:14):
alongside them and increase our advocacy, that would be great.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I'd just like to say, it's just so good just
to be part of a like minded group. I mean,
you know, just talking and this being meeting once a
month and talking and discussing in the same vein of
the like minded.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It's great for well being.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Actually, there's some projects that you're you're well. First of all,
we've had a few meetings with likes of Andy Stokes
and and and so there has been sort of starting
to try and advocate via council. Hasn't the sort of
starting to develop those relationships.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yes, and council has now appointed an arborist, which is
a good step forward. Yes, what was the arter? Both
of them were very helpful in that recent meeting.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Terry has been busy developing a tree policy which we
hope to see perhaps past before the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And I think by being in a group like this,
you start to find out what the soul sort of
tree canopy movement is actually doing in terms of like
digital programming and what's happening in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
The Tree Council.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
You start to develop become aware of how important it
is outside of cavity at least.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yes, it would be very nice if there was a
tree space group in every city in town in the country. Yeah.
Was it you who introduced the ideas of the Milwaukee
for Ye. Yes, the Japanese botanist called Dr Milwaukee a
(23:56):
few years ago started a project of planting forests in
urban areas, and forests that would grow rapidly. That was
the point of it, so that basically it's gardening with
trees in urban areas, putting a fence around an area,
tilling the soil, putting on compost and other fertilizers, and
(24:23):
then planting trees very closely together so that the weeds
would be excluded and the trees were growing at at
least double the rate, possibly three times the rate of
other plantings because of the soil preparation and being planted
in a big group together providing each other with shelter.
(24:44):
So that's been done elsewhere. There's been one project completed
in this country doing that, but it's happening in other
countries at quite a pace. So we have a project
that we intend to do one of these Milwaukee forests
also called tiny forests, and have been a lot at
(25:08):
the piece of land in why Ca and I in
which we can do this. So this project is just
beginning and we will begin planting next season, not this
year because it's a bit late now, but getting the
place ready next year for next year's planting.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
So yeah, yes, I mentioned the support that the council
is giving us. So we got a little bit of
funding to kickstart the project. We're going to need some
more support, so we'll probably talked to some commercial entities
about sponsorship or donations. In fact, to help us with
all the costs. There are costs association associated with preparing
(25:52):
the ground, pre conditioning the soil, fencing. The area that
we've been allotted is overrun with rabbits almost so are
we're going to have to keep those out and of
course fertilizing, watering and looking at We expect to look
(26:13):
after those trees for at least two years until they're
well established. Then within two to three years we hope
that they will be self supporting.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Okay, So the tiny forest means that the closeness of
the trees is part of their success in terms of generation.
The recommend fast growth and also preparation like deep preparation,
and that encourages Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The recommendation is between three and five three and five
trees per square meter. Does include shrubs, so they're not
all tall trees. Yeah, and so they're not something that
you have a path through so much. It's it's it's
gardening with trees.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yes, that's right. Although there are projects in other parts
of the world where a large enough area has been
developed that has been able to accommodate paths, and that
I don't see any reason why our first project couldn't
be repeated alongside, you know, with similar projects and could
(27:23):
be designed with pathways through it. In Viola mentioned you
know that the Milwaukee or tiny forest concept has been
taken up in other countries, many countries in fact, And
the last I saw perhaps I think there was a
report on the internet that are at least three thousand
(27:46):
projects around the world. Some countries have more than one
hundred projects going.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
And they and they are like in just an urban areas,
sit in areas wherever the locals activate to make these
things happen.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yes, yes, yeah. Many have been established with the support
of schools.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, so that the.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Children are able to look after them, study them, and
build it into perhaps their their programs.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And children do really love it. I've got a well.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Treed back garden. Look I love and the neighbors. The
neighbors children, they've been there for four years. They one
of them was two when she arrived. The other one
hadn't even started school, and she's now and they come
up and they've been coming over all the time in
those four or five years into my garden. They just
want to come to my garden and sit and bring
(28:45):
a picnic rug and then pick a lemon, and they
just love it. It's special to them. They've they've come from
another country, they're immigrants, and it's part of the two
year old's It's all she will have known. There's this
garden next door. And I just love the fact that
these children are the fact that they have the sort
of awareness and intelligence to see the beauty of the
(29:06):
gardens as rewarding to me.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
No, that's a lovely story. And I would point out
that our Mayorwaukee forests are going to be native trees. Yes,
are they going to be native?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yes, yes, yes, yes. The project that was started about
three years ago in Nelson is doing very well. Within
two to three years, they've got trees exceeding four meters
in height.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Wonderful because four meters in two to three years, in
two to three years, that's quite formative. Appreciate because I mean,
I'm loving our area because we have these little pocket
pocket bush areas. But that's not a tiny forest.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Is it.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I mean, the trees, there's some of it's remnant, for instance,
but a tiny forest is not what we've got here.
Scattered around the region of Nio and remus streets.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
That are tiny for us is artificial. It's been planted.
It's not original trees.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And the and the plants are scattered randomly.
We may not be totally random in the smaller area
that's been allotted to us, simply because of the tree
species and the spacing that they may.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Need to yes, need to have so so obviously I
can see there's quite a lot of planning that's underweight
you have to think about before we do planning to
get this successful growth. Yes, happening, Yes, in terms of
preparing the lot and you know, and looking for looking
(30:44):
for support from different organizations to help out and the schools.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Yes. Well, the road forward, as you say, includes a plan,
and I've drafted drafted a plan which I will present
to the council very shortly and discuss that.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
And is that all about excavation and soil and what
about irrigation?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Is that it just is that just rainfall or well?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
No, we do hope to use a water source close
to the allotted area, but we need to negotiate with
people on that first m But yes, it will require
a bit of nurturing for at least the first couple
of years until the plants are established, but with a
good layer of malch it shouldn't be too much watering needed.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
And tree space will continue to be a way of
like minded people connecting and and just enabling us to
sort of find a way to to determine that, you know,
the native and tree covering cavity is it has a focus.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Well with the hope success of the project, people will
be able to see what is potentially successful and we'd
like to be able to repeat it along the Capital Coast.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah. Years ago, yeah, year, it does work. I mean
years ago. I mean in the seventies.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I lived in Ponsonby, Herne Bay, Ponsonby area, and I
just happened to fortunately be working for the Greater Welling
the Auckland Regional Council, and I was working in a
team called the Green City Project team.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
This is back in.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Eighty one, and the members of the people on my
street and Herne Bay said to me, oh, look, you
work in the council.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Don't you. Can you help us out.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
We're a bit concerned, you know, about all the traffic
that's taking shortcuts through our residential streets from the West
Coast to get shortcuts to the Harbor Bridge. Can we
do something, Can we do something about planting in our streets,
calming the streets. So they're very active in and we
got together. We had street meetings, We had organized street
(33:04):
lever box drops with surveys to every resident about what
they think, what they would like. And we had no
idea whether this is going to go, but we took
it really seriously, and we translated our surveys into four
different Polynesian languages, but also produced sketches of what trees
in streets could look like, increased trees that could people
(33:27):
get visualize, and series of street meetings and then and
then I took our beautiful plans did actually ended. Because
I was working, I had a chance to draw the
plans up and research and it was called Verneuf in Holland.
Back in the seventies, this was the w.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
You know, the one yes. And I looked at that
and then drew these plans up and thinking, oh, you know,
this is just a bunch of people, you know, we.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Won't get anywhere. And I tooked them to the city
council traffic planners and they jumped out of their seats
and said, thank goodness, if we do something that people
actually want, and they went and did it. And it
wasn't just three planting. And we had a whole bunch
of streets from Herne Bay and threw into Pontsamby and
there was these kind of booms that we basically narrowed
(34:15):
streets in various places and put trees in them. And
they went and did it after I'd left the job,
in fact, and now these trees from what were big
and hot, hot in the middle of Auckland summer, big
wie dusty streets were really awful, you know, And now
they're just these tree lined streets, little outdoor rooms, you know.
(34:38):
And it's actually improved the value of properties and everything.
So it does create a different architecture in the in
the urban scene. It creates outdoor rooms and people. Yeah,
so I think it's I think what you're doing here
the ola and Jeff is wonderful for capity.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Well, we hope to influence everybody really in the way
they think about trees.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
It is very hard development thinking, and I.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Think we are a number of years behind some of
the other countries in their thinking. And there is, as
La said, is a bit of a chainsaw mentality. I
think in some kiwis.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
It's a bit of a virtue signal, sort of a
tidy up approach. I think people if they're cutting down trees,
they're tidying things up. It's kind of virtuous getting rid
of the leaves and things.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I can understand some concerns among private landowners where they've
got large trees that shadow of the house and the
house might get might get cool, and they want a
bit more sun, or perhaps it keeps the house damp.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, I can understand that it does shade tree.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
That sort of concern, But I'd like them to also
think about the value of those trees and whether a
bit of judicious pruning rather than chopping the thing down
would be as good.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Because trees create a home base for you and your garden.
They create a meaningful home, sense of homing, homecoming, I
think myself, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Somewhere to build your treehouse for the kids, somewhere something
for the kids to climb on.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, and the birds definitely are prolific. Linda maple Beeck
is a local artist. She's been in her garden in
I think it's Carraka Street for like forty years and
she can spend now she's getting a little older, she
considered in your dining table and just spent just looking
(36:44):
out on the garden is so much inspiration for her
as a painter. But she also notices the birds, and
a lot of the birds sort of creep into her paintings.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
As you know.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
And that's yeah, just and actually during COVID, because my
garden was everything for me, because you know, I just
found myself doing a series of paintings and looking through
my window. Just looking out of the window was entertainment
enough during COVID. And I think if people realize that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I do wonder if very calming, Yes, I wonder if
people do see the true benefits to their health of trees.
I know personally I get withdrawal symptoms if I haven't
been into a forest for a while. And when I
go into the forest, I feel calm, I enjoy it.
(37:37):
It takes me away from all the other concerns that
might be rushing through my mind. And if it's full
of birds, of course, that's a bonus.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Absolutely. And I mean that Japanese call it forest bathing, yes,
and it's advocation now as a sort of as a
therapy as forest bathing. Yes, Yeah, I think tree space
is exciting because over the year or two, you know,
the individuals have all sort of contributed our own different
kinds of energy to it and got to know different different.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Skills come from all works walks of life, don't we.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yes, Yes, we're quite a diverse group. Yes. We have
gilds a GP and has retired GP and amateur botanists
and you and you created the q E two and Jeff,
you came.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
From metallurgical engineering, and we've.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Got I think a soil scientist or grass scientists, yes,
and then book publisher yes. Yeah. Just going back to
the practical aspect, as Jeff said, trees can impede on
people and be a nuisance to people and that's widely
(38:56):
recognized and breaking up the pavement and all that sort
of stuff. But we've got to think of ways around
that and be creative and not just go for the
destruction approach as the first approach. And one example I
can think of there were the pavers around a big,
perfect carwa tree that I was aware of, and instead
(39:19):
of though the pavers were getting broken up by the
roots of the trees and being uneven and a source
of you know, possible hazard for people. Tripping over, so
the tree was chopped down. But instead of that, a
more creative approach, in my opinion, would have been to
lift those broken pavers away and create a little garden
(39:41):
around this tree. But you know that didn't happen. And
you know all those sort of different approaches that can
be taken by individuals and by counsel to retain a tree.
And as Jeff mentioned, a bit of judicious pruning and
just taking the trouble to rake up the leaves which
(40:03):
people are lazy about leave lying around and you know
where they block up drains and do become a nuisance.
So just generally more awareness of how we can look
after trees and where they fit into our human environment,
which we're so dominant in.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
We're so dominant in. I mean, why do we have
to control the tree? The tree offers us so much.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
The trees offer us as much as the animals around us,
and they inform us.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
They you know, you can see the wind moving in
the trees. They tell you about what's going on in
the weather. They felt a light, they give modulation to
the weather. So why do we have to dominate?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yes, I mean, in our opinion, the benefits far outwigh
the disadvantages.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yes, yes, I mean Capiti is a recreational area by
the nature that it's a coastal area, and so we
should be leading really groups like a tree space and
all of the others that you mentioned. We should be
a leading conservation area and being sort of recognized for it.
(41:12):
I mean it should be very much our approach. And
as you say, we've got the coastal which is the
dune area, but then how does that lead up and
transition up into the hills.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Yes, yes, we've got a very diverse flora as you're say,
from the dune area through wetlands and through the river
gravels and then linking up to the forest area. So
there's quite there's a large variety of trees, which is
an asset and a wonderful wealth.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
And I guess when we're going back, it's this urban
change that we're up in. I mean, Kapiti is subject
to development because it's one of the fewer districts in
the Wellingen region which can manage growth because they feel
that there's this green, green area development, but that.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Is actually can be such a negative. I mean we
need housing or whatever, but we need groups like tree
space because to alert, as you say, for all the developers,
because green field development makes everything so it makes the
land vulnerable, and we see, yeah, developers need to cut
(42:30):
the trees down to maximize their yield. And what do
we achieve in terms of a community space at the
end of it.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yes, yeah, I think the developers need to have need
to have a different approach, and perhaps there ought to
be some rewards for developers in developing things sympathetically for
the environment, such that you know, if they do have
corridor creation or they do have decent plots of land
(43:04):
with good tree planting, and then that then there should
be some reward to the developer in that.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, I think. I think density is a good thing.
I mean urban urban and urban experience is a good thing.
We don't need massively. Our sections are huge, our foot
paths are booms. If you go to Japan, you know,
you know, good urban development is good because it's it's
maximizing the land area and then hand in hand with
(43:33):
the likes of tiny forests and the three hundred open
space area, then you're getting good housing without spreading too
far into the greenfield area. But you're getting the experience
of vibrant nature as well, so that yeah, our well
(43:53):
being is it's being done so well elsewhere with tree
with building that have their own trees growing on them
and providing their own water supply, and growing plants on walls,
and all sorts of imaginative ways in which it's being done,
which is kind of lacking here in New Zealand. And
(44:19):
I mean benefits people emotionally, as we've discussed, but also
it adds to the value of the properties it does,
and it adds to the value of the neighboring properties
because if there's a quality of natural environment, then the
whole street becomes attractive to potential buyers.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Not that you want to.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Increase the value out of sight for in terms of
housing affordability, which happens if the place is beautiful and
the property values go up. But then if we start
looking at good intensification in area it is like which
are already built up. If we could look at the
intensification areas which are already kind of brown field sites
(45:09):
and then adding Milwaukee to the mix and planting to
the mix, then we've got housing affordability. But everybody still
has that experience of because I mean in Japan and Tokyo.
You can envisage a massive metropolis, but all I experienced
was walking around the streets. Was the sense of nature.
That was my dominant experience, was the love of nature,
(45:30):
the ever present feel of nature. Yes, because somehow they
managed to.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Do both well.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
There are more than a thousand of Milwauki sites in Japan, right.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I'm wondering if there's a great, incredibly good British landscape architect.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
His name I've just forgotten. He is amazing, and I
know he's developed with another with a Japanese, a Japanese
conservationist or landowner, a beautiful sort of forariall landscaped area
in Japan.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
And I'm wondering if he's been working with Milawaiki.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
I must look him up. He's done some amazing landscaped
area with the Japanese developer oft. Yeah, it could have
been meliwaikie on.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I have to check that out.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Yes, Well, there are many people who have come on
board with the Milwaukee principle. The Kent Kent County Council
in the UK, for example, have written a manual on
how to create a Milwauki forest. And I noticed recently
that Norfolk have done something fairly similar.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Hell, Norfolk really Norfolk broad because that's very much the
Broads and the well one things.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Of the Norfolk, the broads in Norfolk years.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, yes, okay, I mean I think things happen in
waves and generations, like in Kapiti. I know, ten twenty
years ago we had Kia Kapiti Environmental Action Action and
then we had and we had so council was a
where then because of the generational thing. And there was
a wonderful woman as a Wlgabites who produced a booklet
(47:07):
of appropriate planting in Capity that Cavity Council had on
its counter for people who were building and developing, and
it was indicating how to plant. So I guess it
goes in waves, and it's great that maybe this is
another wave out of time, you know, with a sense
of intensification that we're hearing.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
And I think this is the time when we should
put in a plug for tree Space Capity and tell
people how they can join and what they can do. Yes.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Well, in fact, I've just created a new email address
called tree space Capity. So that's tree space with a
capital T and a capital S, tree space being one
word dot capity at gmail dot com. So if there
are listeners out there who would like to get in
(47:58):
touch with us, send an email to that address and
we'll answer it. But also if anybody is really keen
on joining our group, then please let us know, because
we'd certainly like to grow the group. At the moment,
we're an unincorporated society, but given sufficient numbers, we can
(48:20):
become an incorporated society, which has significant benefits.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Yes, and for me, I mean it's just wonderful to
be part of a group where the level of engagement
and just interest in the eurven experience and open space
and tree planting and urban areas, it's fantastic. You're just
eating meeting once a month is wonderful. So I think,
(48:49):
you know, for others to join us, it's something that
can grow. I can feel the group growing and gaining
sort of traction already. And so thanks for Ola for
setting it up really and Jeff all the work that
you do in terms of chairperson. It's quite exciting. And
you recently presented a council. I couldn't quite didn't catch
up with that.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
So yes, I did. I think it was a week
ago last Tuesday something like that. Yeah, there were fifteen
groups applying for funds and we were given three minutes
to present our case to counsel, which I did, and
we found out the following day that we've been given
some support in terms of funds. It's not, as I say,
(49:32):
it's not enough to cover the whole costs. So we're
going to have to look for sponsorship. And a number
of us that have already chipped in hundreds and hundreds
of dollars to help us start off.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Roger chapped me on the shoulder, so I must oblige.
Talking of a little tree, Rogers just one of the members,
Rogers came around to my place this morning. In the
six years i've been there, talking about the value of trees,
all of the native birds go by and they drop
the seeds from the kwakar and whatever. And I've just
(50:05):
got all these seedlings. I've got lance woods and five
finger and all of these things all cropping off in
my garden. Beautiful, and so they're in places like in
the driveway and the edge of the driveway, and I
just love them. But he's dug a few of them
up for his own purposes. So that's the value I
(50:26):
mean the birds start to transfer the natives around properties
as well.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
Yes, thanks Ros for reminding me too. Another appeal would
be to listeners out there to get in touch with
us if they have seedlings to offer, or indeed seeds,
because we could be raising them or some of them
at least in our backyards ready for planting next year.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
So when do you start to plant? When do you
start excavating and repairing?
Speaker 2 (50:52):
And a few minutes.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Yes, I would imagine we'd probably start in around April.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Preparing the ground so you plant and winter do yes?
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Plant in winter?
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Yeah, the soil has less chance to dry out.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Ye. And how do you provide shelter?
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Was that not an issue?
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Because the small well, the fence, the rever proof fence
will initially provide a bit of shelter. Yeah, And just
planting the trees close together will provide shelter.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
We will also use little plant guards, yes, which will
helped to shelter them from the breeze and the little
the small plot that we've got actually as adjacent to
something that looks a little bit like a hedge, and
I think that will provide some protection at least from
the westerly wind.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
So What was it like presenting to council?
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Did you find that you managed to marshal all of
your knowledge together.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
On one place.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yes, it was successful because I think at least Roger
tapped me on the shoulder and said, well done. But now,
I mean, this whole concept is quite new to me,
and I'm not as confident in this field of business
as I am as a metallurgical engineer. So yes, it
(52:09):
was as nerve wracking as sitting here talking into a microphone.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Lovely to have you both.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Thank you very much for inviting us.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Is there anything else you'd like to say just about
your experience or your aspirations for the teacher? And well,
I was just discussing with Jeff how distraught I was
to see a beautiful cowie tree recently felled, with a
tree which would have been thirty years old, and right
near the road in Why Can I and suddenly it
(52:42):
was gone. And I'd been admiring this tree ever since
I've been living, and why Can, I'm thinking how wonderful
it was. It was like an old friend. So I
was really just totally.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Yes, every time I walked past that tree, I made
a point of looking at you.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
For people who have these dress that they realized the
importance of them to people that they're taking out some
taking out a kind of part of the street life.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
Yeah, I don't know if they do.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Maybe they don't think of that.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
You had your own little private success outside of tree
space with the Golden ells.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Well, yes, the golden elms in the parking area at
the back of Wyke and I, between the Maria and
the where the Baptist shop is. Some of the elms
along there were looking very drab and looking as though
they were on the way up compared to the others.
Some were doing well, and then you notice the others
(53:39):
were and looking closely at them, I found that the
tarmac had been taken right up to the base of
the tree trunk, which didn't give it any space for
water or breathing for the roots because they were buried
under tarmac. Well, some trees can cope with that maracoly,
(54:01):
but these were not coping and they were looking miserable.
So I pointed this out to the council, and to
their credit, they came and the hard surface was removed
around the root to the trees and there's a now
nice circle where the trees can actually get some water
and some roots can do some breathing, which was great.
(54:22):
That had been quite fair. I'm looking forward to the
spring to see these trees really pop up and do well.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
And do you remember we bit for the walk around
and we saw the old famous pewtera kawa that used
to be part of the pub and you were commenting
that it could actually as a focus. You're walking past it,
but at the ground at the foot of the pewter
kawa could just be a little bit more care in
terms of groundcover, planting or whatever to give it a
focus at street level.
Speaker 3 (54:49):
Is that, yes, the profusion of weeds underneath it rather
detracted from the beauty of the.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Tree when people could actually, yeah, they would focus notice
it more if it was given a little bit more
focused at ground you And that brings me to the
we mentioned the new railway transport hub talk because you'd
talk because you'd inform me about how to manage the
tree routes within the tarmac. At the Golden Elms, I
noticed the trees that they're planted there. They've done very
(55:16):
well with quite wide radiuses around the trunk that are
kind of covered and are kind of grated. Still great
I think so, yeah, that that alerted me because of
how you what you'd.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
Said to me.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
But I think the work that they've done credit to
them a few you know, a few brownie points is
that they if you look sort of more carefully at
the place, they have focused on the old pewter cars
that are there. It's they've been there forever, but you
didn't notice them in the in the sort of hurdy
burley of the highway State Highway one and the trains
coming and going, because they've kind of stilled the place
(55:50):
a weebert. When you have time to sit there as
a commuter, you realize that those pooter cars really do
four ground along the state highway there.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Yes, so things can.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
Be done with what we've got and appreciate what's there
rather than as you say, fell the cowie before you
know it. I think we're probably come to the end
of our time. But what are we right middle of winter?
So what happens in summer? Do you plant less trees?
(56:26):
You plant less trees? Okay, so we're right in the
middle of the tree planting ish moments.
Speaker 3 (56:33):
Now, busy pruning my own trees my property.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Ye know, I've learned a lot more about trees now
that I've been part of this and formed group.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Thank you. Is there anything else you would like to
in terms of giving a prompt for our group?
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Well, just an appeal anybody out there who would have
sympathy with our cause to join us.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Any website designers perhaps.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Or website designers.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
Yes, because we're just getting going on the promotional work
which is looking very nice that current leaflet.
Speaker 3 (57:08):
Yes, and of course the more people, the more ideas
we will have.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Yes, right, I think we'll leave it there. The more people,
the more ideas will have. Thank you very much. Jeff's
Grace and Viola Pama represented as with tree Space here
Local Architecture now for August.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Thank you very much. This program was made with assistance
from New Zealand on Air for radio broadcast and through
the Accessmedia dot MZ website. Thank you New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (57:44):
On a
Hi, this is Rousland Derby from Local Architecture Now. And
for August we have Viola Palmer and Jeff's Grace who
(00:24):
are from tree Space and tree Space is a group
that I belong to. Hi, Jeff High, Viola, Hi, it's
lovely to have you. We're going to hear all about
tree Space, It's aspirations and tensions and the projects that
are underway. Jeff is the cheaperson current chairperson. Viola is
(00:46):
the activist among us.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
And yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
How did you really first become get this tree Space
up and running? What was the history of or how
did it become?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
In November twenty two, I wrote an article in the
local paper, the Captain News, because I was aghast at
the tree felling, which I had noticed since the rules
about intensification in the area had been brought in. And
(01:26):
to my surprise, that article gained me support. People got
back to me and said, you know, we're really worried
about this too. I had a lot of responses and
so it was out of that that the tree Space
group started. I got in touch with those people and
asked them if they were interested in meeting me. So yes,
they came around to my place and the group started
(01:49):
after that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
And I was lucky enough to be introduced by Penny
who told me this this group was going, and I
came along and a group of Lake.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Mine Yes, and Viola gave a short presentation at the
end of a forest and bird meeting, didn't you Viola?
And that's when I heard about the concern about trees
and I am also concerned about trees, so I talked
to Viola about it and was brought on board. That
was around June last year, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
And then in July I was asked to chair the group,
and so we've been working pretty hard since then.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yes, we have.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It's a monthly meeting. Anybody who's interested in joining.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And so what let's say, what does trees space? Lots
of lots of goals, lots of aspirations. How would you
like to kick off? Was a description of where we're heading.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Okay, Well, we set ourselves up primarily as an advocacy
group to put pressure on the likes of the council,
developers and Zaida and anybody really who's going to be
modifying land. So we've made submissions, we've had meetings with
(03:10):
the council, they've been very supportive. They've actually come along
to some of our meetings. And we're only a fairly
young group, but already we've got some support for a project.
We have approached nz TA about use of their land
(03:31):
without success, i must say, unfortunately. But as I say,
we've got quite a lot of support from the.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Council and one of the things was the tree canopy
in capity, isn't it. That's there's a whole sort of
principle around that.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That's right, yes, As Viola has has just mentioned, we're
sad to see lots of trees disappearing and we'd like
to put pressure on the council and others to develop
a or create a decent tree canopy. The tree canopy
on the Capital Coast has been reported at about six
(04:11):
to ten percent, which is a very low level in comparison,
Wellington City has something like thirty percent. Now, that is
the sort of target that we would be aiming for,
and there is an international recommendation for something that's called
(04:32):
the three thirty three hundred approach, in which anyone living
in a dwelling should be able to see three mature
trees from that dwelling. The thirty represents thirty percent canopy cover.
This is in urban areas as well, not just parks.
(04:53):
And the three hundred is that within three hundred meters
of a dwelling there should be a decent open space.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, three three hundred.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yes, as I say, that has been adopted as a
target by many municipalities around the world.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yes, so tree space is looking and it does a
sort of research or is aware party ula of how
things the tree approach, tree protection, tree canopy and possibly Auckland,
New Zealand, and elsewhere in the world, and you have
a sort of background and understanding as part of tree
Space's information base. Yes, even densely populated cities like Singapore
(05:40):
have got very good tree canopy cover. And I think
Singapore and Tampa and Florida in the United States these
are the leaders. But other cities are planting huge numbers
of trees in Paris, and it seems that trees are
valued in other parts of the world in a way
which reluctantly they're not here. Is it you sort of feel,
(06:04):
you know, we're supposed to be the great green New Zealand,
but you go to other cities and they have these big,
old mature trees right in the heart of the CBD
on lining the streets meeting in the middle of the
leaf canopy? Is it our pioneering tree cutting, you know,
cutting the trees down, pioneering spirit that's still alive in
our DNA or something.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I'm afraid so, and cutting trees with chainsaws has made
it so much easier than the pioneers did it.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yes, that's right. You were just talking just a minute
ago about a disappointing filling of a coli a NAO.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
When I noticed recently that a very prominent carry, which
I would judge was about thirty years old, and a
beautiful tree in why can I has been felled, So
there's at least thirty years gross gone in half a
day probably, yes.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yes, and not too long ago there was a sectional
or part of a section again and Why can I
that was cleared of at least a dozen trees. And
of those trees I could see maybe two or three
might have been might have had to be cleared for
development purposes, But why cut them all down? On that?
(07:18):
And some of them were valuable trees? We talk about value,
and I don't think that private people do value the
trees really as much as they should, because there are
significant benefits in having trees. There's the cooling effect, there's
(07:40):
the retention of water or water control, there's the biodiversity,
and there are many other benefits.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Because currently well yes, I mean, trees also provide beauty,
which is good for human world, and that's been well researched.
They filter out pollutants, They soak up water so that
in a flood there's not such so much flood damage.
(08:13):
What else do they do that currently?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
That The current concern is about carbon emissions, isn't it?
And a good tree canopy is a tool to look
towards our reduction and.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Carbon emissions exactly. They sequest the carbons. And mature trees
are particularly valuable because of that. Yes, and mature trees,
I mean some of them are two or three hundred
years old, and we're not going to grow in those.
Planting five new trees isn't going to do the function
that those old trees have done. So we need to
(08:48):
be far more mindful of the value of trees and
what they can do for us.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I completely agree, I mean I live and way can
I And because there is a remarkable amount of BirdLife
because of the sort of greater There are the pockets
bush areas around why can I which encourage toy and
they do move around the garden area, particularly the toy
and it's a joy and.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
It is well being.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
It gives a sense of home and peace in your
own backyard rather than having to rush off somewhere else
to get that experience.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yes, yes, and Viola has pointed out that there is
going to be a gap between the planting of trees
now and the mature trees that are being cut down.
We need at least thirty years for some of the
new new ceilings and saplings to grow into decent trees
(09:45):
and provide that canopy. We'd also like to see corridors
in tree planting connect the Hemi martinga forest, for example,
all the way to the coast. If we could, we
can bring that wildlife down from the from the forest,
or in fact encourage it to go back to the forest.
(10:08):
And there's quite a bit of trapping in the forest.
But if you walk in the on Hemi Martina you
don't actually hear very much bird life.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
You do down in the garden. The area of why
can I remark, why is it because people think two
is like people.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I wonder, well, I think some two years, Well, some
of the nectar feeders, of course are being fed, which
they're not in on the forest in Hemi Martina. But
so if we can increase the population here and improve trapping,
for example on Hemi Martina, yes, then maybe we can
(10:46):
encourage them to move back up the hill.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And that gives me a sense of history as well.
I mean that gives you gets you right back to
the history of why can either whole pre European or
earlier the whole Mari experience of love the hills to
the sea and yeah, reconnecting the hills to the sea.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yes, forestation, Yes, we have some concerns about development that's
going on.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
The intensification, of course, leads to an awful lot of
impervious surfaces, and we'd like that of course, is going
to cause problems in water runoff. And if one can
introduce trees in those areas, then we've got a bit
more control at least on the water on the water table.
(11:36):
But also developers tend to pay lip service to the
planting of trees, and I wish that they would actually
value the placement of those trees the area of those trees,
where the pockets are going to be, and what they're
actually going to do to enhance the biodiversity and the
(12:00):
horridor system and also provide at least a decent amount
of canopy cover eventually.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yes, why do you think there is a less of
an interest or less of a concern in New Zealand
compared to you. I mean, I think I arrived in
say like Portland, Oregon, and my hostel was like a
few streets back from the agtional main street, and it
was lined with trees ancient This was midsummer all and
(12:27):
leaf and that's right in the heart of the city.
And there wasn't the concern that the leaves were getting
in people's gutters or it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Was just there. Yes, and another city of Prague absolutely
beautiful with the chestnuts or flowering. So it is happening elsewhere,
But in New Zealand we have still to learn how
to build around trees and to value them instead of
coming in and cutting them down and putting down our concrete,
(12:56):
to actually build around the trees and see what they're
doing to enhance the building that's being put in. But
there doesn't seem to be that esthetic approach among developers. Well,
I shouldn't generalize, but they do usually want to get
maximum returns for their development and that means doesn't mean
(13:22):
keeping trees. So we need to value trees more in
some way. And Tree Space as an advocacy group is
working towards connection with council, isn't it, And in this
way is trying to build a kind of strong connection
with council to promote yes And unfortunately at present there
(13:45):
is very little protection for trees. It's really only if
they have a covenant placed on them and that requires
a group of trees, not just one that they are
protected in any sense. So what was the what's the
work that we've been doing on indigenous the mapping that
all the research you've been doing on notable and indigenous trees.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Well, we do know that the Council has a list
of what they call key Indigenous trees and they've done
some good work on that and there are hundreds of
trees listed as key Indigenous trees and that provides some protection.
There's also the Notable Trees List, which is a national
list and it's something that Auckland, the Auckland Tree Council
(14:33):
is promoting very strongly. In fact, they've just gone through
their fourth period of collecting nominations for notable trees and
that number is up to one hundred and ninety nine Now. Unfortunately,
on the Capital Coast, the Council is not considering any
(14:55):
applications for notable trees. We would hope that fairly soon
they would start doing that again. That would provide protection
for trees on private land. The private landowner can nominate
any tree as a notable tree. It will have to
(15:15):
go through a fairly rigorous assessment as to whether it
can gain notability. But it could be a deciduous tree,
could be an evergreen, it could be an exotic So
if there are the people out if there are people
out there who really value the trees that they have,
then they could perhaps get in touch with us and
(15:38):
talk about maybe creating a list of notable trees which
we can build up as a resource and approach the council.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
With Okay, so tree space could be the advocate could
be mediating with local landowners and then bringing that information
to council.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
That's valuable. Yes, yes, there.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Is something called q E two Covenant as well, which
is available to private landowners, and that I think provides
more protection even than the Key Indigenous Tree list and
the notable tree list.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So notable trees are not necessarily key indigenous trees.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
No, they don't have to be.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
And then notable.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Because the owners feel that they would like to protect
their particular tree and they and they do an application
and go through a certain process.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yes, it might be because the owner feels that that
particular tree is particularly beautiful, or it may have significance
in terms of in terms of representing an Ewi belief,
or it might even be a memorial to somebody, so
(16:57):
they could nominate it. From those points of view.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I mean, so I was surprised that Kapiti has a
lower tree camerapy. It's quite such a low tree canopy percentage.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yes, why can I is It looks nice and green,
and that's one of the things that attracted me to
Why can I in the first place. But Paraparumu has
less tree colored than we have in Why and I.
So yeah, there are large areas of land which are
devoid of trees.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I remember one day walking along doing my usual walk
along the way can I River, and I used to
love walking past that, but beside the Christrian Center with
his massive poplar, which of course aren't they're exotic, and
I used to feel like I was walking into one
of those French Impressionist paintings that you see with the
poplars along the river. And I always just dive into Morow.
(17:52):
And one day there was a Hezard fence up and
they said, or you can't walk here. So I rang
up Greater Well intoon and they said, oh, I said,
I was about you know, I was actually going there
to take photos of this particular part, and said it's
too late.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Now they will have all gone.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
And so yeah, I mean, I guess potentially branches falling
off these popular was a reason for felling the whole row.
But they just completely took out a whole aspect of
that river for safety of falling branches. Yeah, and now
the poor horses are there in the blinding heat, in
the afternoon heat. They've got no tree cover.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I do wonder if the assessment is perhaps a little
too rigorous, and that they could give a bit more
thought before chopping the trees down.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I wonder why, yeah, but did you not have did
you not set up a beautiful bush area is yes,
you found a vacant piece of land or your own land.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
No, that it was. It was land that we bought
and planted with trees. And it did get recognized by
the Queen Elizabeth Trust and has got a covenant on
it and the present owners are looking after it very nicely.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yes, and that was quite a big area of land
subject was just planted. Yes, empty land. It had been
horse grazing paddocks and you planted it and we planted it.
And when we first approached the Queen Elizabeth Trust for
a covenant, they came out and had a look at
it and said, oh, no, we can't covenant somebody's dream
(19:28):
because the trees went very big. And then about ten
years later we invited them again and they came out
and said, oh, yes, we'll covenant this and can we
have our Christmas party here?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, a big change in attitude over that time. Is
it a public that's on private profit but adjacent to
it as another piece of council property which we also
instigated the planting of I think I think twenty five
years ago now, Yes, and the trees they are yes,
(20:02):
so it can be down because I know some people
who live in that area King Arthur Drive or somewhere
walked me through. I was surprised it was even there,
and obviously to think that it wasn't there previously is remarkable.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yes, it is a pretty area, and really we have
to take our hats off to the twenty seven or
so restoration groups on the Kapiti coast. They're doing wonderful
work planting hundreds even thousands of trees. But they're all young.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
They're all young. The trees trees young people are not
young unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yes, it's the older ones who are planting them. And
I would appeal to people out there who to come
and join us, the younger people. We need some succession
in our groups. Were not just with the planting, but
we're also keeping the groups going. Yeah, but as as
(21:00):
Elder said, some of the trees that they've been planting
for twenty five years are quite tall now, but there
are thousands of trees that have been planted that are
still only a few feet high.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
And do they need protection from public hazard or vandalism
or well, if they're on council land they will be protected. Okay, Yeah,
they're looking up and so I know that we're in.
The conversation within tree Space was saying what is our group?
I mean that there are so many wonderful conservation and
(21:34):
ecology groups in Capiti. That was a conversation that was had,
wasn't it as how do we create our own sort
of autonomy or what's the point of what's.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
The meaning of tree space compete? I mean, and how
do we contribute to the greater whole of all of
the other groups that are so active.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yes, well, if we can work alongside some of the
other groups in our advocacy role, that would help in
some ways. Many of the other groups are so busy
doing their own thing that it's rather difficult to actually
combine some of our effort. But if we can work
(22:14):
alongside them and increase our advocacy, that would be great.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I'd just like to say, it's just so good just
to be part of a like minded group. I mean,
you know, just talking and this being meeting once a
month and talking and discussing in the same vein of
the like minded.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It's great for well being.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Actually, there's some projects that you're you're well. First of all,
we've had a few meetings with likes of Andy Stokes
and and and so there has been sort of starting
to try and advocate via council. Hasn't the sort of
starting to develop those relationships.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yes, and council has now appointed an arborist, which is
a good step forward. Yes, what was the arter? Both
of them were very helpful in that recent meeting.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Terry has been busy developing a tree policy which we
hope to see perhaps past before the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And I think by being in a group like this,
you start to find out what the soul sort of
tree canopy movement is actually doing in terms of like
digital programming and what's happening in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
The Tree Council.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
You start to develop become aware of how important it
is outside of cavity at least.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yes, it would be very nice if there was a
tree space group in every city in town in the country. Yeah.
Was it you who introduced the ideas of the Milwaukee
for Ye. Yes, the Japanese botanist called Dr Milwaukee a
(23:56):
few years ago started a project of planting forests in
urban areas, and forests that would grow rapidly. That was
the point of it, so that basically it's gardening with
trees in urban areas, putting a fence around an area,
tilling the soil, putting on compost and other fertilizers, and
(24:23):
then planting trees very closely together so that the weeds
would be excluded and the trees were growing at at
least double the rate, possibly three times the rate of
other plantings because of the soil preparation and being planted
in a big group together providing each other with shelter.
(24:44):
So that's been done elsewhere. There's been one project completed
in this country doing that, but it's happening in other
countries at quite a pace. So we have a project
that we intend to do one of these Milwaukee forests
also called tiny forests, and have been a lot at
(25:08):
the piece of land in why Ca and I in
which we can do this. So this project is just
beginning and we will begin planting next season, not this
year because it's a bit late now, but getting the
place ready next year for next year's planting.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
So yeah, yes, I mentioned the support that the council
is giving us. So we got a little bit of
funding to kickstart the project. We're going to need some
more support, so we'll probably talked to some commercial entities
about sponsorship or donations. In fact, to help us with
all the costs. There are costs association associated with preparing
(25:52):
the ground, pre conditioning the soil, fencing. The area that
we've been allotted is overrun with rabbits almost so are
we're going to have to keep those out and of
course fertilizing, watering and looking at We expect to look
(26:13):
after those trees for at least two years until they're
well established. Then within two to three years we hope
that they will be self supporting.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Okay, So the tiny forest means that the closeness of
the trees is part of their success in terms of generation.
The recommend fast growth and also preparation like deep preparation,
and that encourages Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The recommendation is between three and five three and five
trees per square meter. Does include shrubs, so they're not
all tall trees. Yeah, and so they're not something that
you have a path through so much. It's it's it's
gardening with trees.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yes, that's right. Although there are projects in other parts
of the world where a large enough area has been
developed that has been able to accommodate paths, and that
I don't see any reason why our first project couldn't
be repeated alongside, you know, with similar projects and could
(27:23):
be designed with pathways through it. In Viola mentioned you
know that the Milwaukee or tiny forest concept has been
taken up in other countries, many countries in fact, And
the last I saw perhaps I think there was a
report on the internet that are at least three thousand
(27:46):
projects around the world. Some countries have more than one
hundred projects going.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
And they and they are like in just an urban areas,
sit in areas wherever the locals activate to make these
things happen.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yes, yes, yeah. Many have been established with the support
of schools.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, so that the.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Children are able to look after them, study them, and
build it into perhaps their their programs.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And children do really love it. I've got a well.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Treed back garden. Look I love and the neighbors. The
neighbors children, they've been there for four years. They one
of them was two when she arrived. The other one
hadn't even started school, and she's now and they come
up and they've been coming over all the time in
those four or five years into my garden. They just
want to come to my garden and sit and bring
(28:45):
a picnic rug and then pick a lemon, and they
just love it. It's special to them. They've they've come from
another country, they're immigrants, and it's part of the two
year old's It's all she will have known. There's this
garden next door. And I just love the fact that
these children are the fact that they have the sort
of awareness and intelligence to see the beauty of the
(29:06):
gardens as rewarding to me.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
No, that's a lovely story. And I would point out
that our Mayorwaukee forests are going to be native trees. Yes,
are they going to be native?
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yes, yes, yes, yes. The project that was started about
three years ago in Nelson is doing very well. Within
two to three years, they've got trees exceeding four meters
in height.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Wonderful because four meters in two to three years, in
two to three years, that's quite formative. Appreciate because I mean,
I'm loving our area because we have these little pocket
pocket bush areas. But that's not a tiny forest.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Is it.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I mean, the trees, there's some of it's remnant, for instance,
but a tiny forest is not what we've got here.
Scattered around the region of Nio and remus streets.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
That are tiny for us is artificial. It's been planted.
It's not original trees.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And the and the plants are scattered randomly.
We may not be totally random in the smaller area
that's been allotted to us, simply because of the tree
species and the spacing that they may.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Need to yes, need to have so so obviously I
can see there's quite a lot of planning that's underweight
you have to think about before we do planning to
get this successful growth. Yes, happening, Yes, in terms of
preparing the lot and you know, and looking for looking
(30:44):
for support from different organizations to help out and the schools.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Yes. Well, the road forward, as you say, includes a plan,
and I've drafted drafted a plan which I will present
to the council very shortly and discuss that.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
And is that all about excavation and soil and what
about irrigation?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Is that it just is that just rainfall or well?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
No, we do hope to use a water source close
to the allotted area, but we need to negotiate with
people on that first m But yes, it will require
a bit of nurturing for at least the first couple
of years until the plants are established, but with a
good layer of malch it shouldn't be too much watering needed.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
And tree space will continue to be a way of
like minded people connecting and and just enabling us to
sort of find a way to to determine that, you know,
the native and tree covering cavity is it has a focus.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Well with the hope success of the project, people will
be able to see what is potentially successful and we'd
like to be able to repeat it along the Capital Coast.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah. Years ago, yeah, year, it does work. I mean
years ago. I mean in the seventies.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I lived in Ponsonby, Herne Bay, Ponsonby area, and I
just happened to fortunately be working for the Greater Welling
the Auckland Regional Council, and I was working in a
team called the Green City Project team.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
This is back in.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Eighty one, and the members of the people on my
street and Herne Bay said to me, oh, look, you
work in the council.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Don't you. Can you help us out.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
We're a bit concerned, you know, about all the traffic
that's taking shortcuts through our residential streets from the West
Coast to get shortcuts to the Harbor Bridge. Can we
do something, Can we do something about planting in our streets,
calming the streets. So they're very active in and we
got together. We had street meetings, We had organized street
(33:04):
lever box drops with surveys to every resident about what
they think, what they would like. And we had no
idea whether this is going to go, but we took
it really seriously, and we translated our surveys into four
different Polynesian languages, but also produced sketches of what trees
in streets could look like, increased trees that could people
(33:27):
get visualize, and series of street meetings and then and
then I took our beautiful plans did actually ended. Because
I was working, I had a chance to draw the
plans up and research and it was called Verneuf in Holland.
Back in the seventies, this was the w.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
You know, the one yes. And I looked at that
and then drew these plans up and thinking, oh, you know,
this is just a bunch of people, you know, we.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Won't get anywhere. And I tooked them to the city
council traffic planners and they jumped out of their seats
and said, thank goodness, if we do something that people
actually want, and they went and did it. And it
wasn't just three planting. And we had a whole bunch
of streets from Herne Bay and threw into Pontsamby and
there was these kind of booms that we basically narrowed
(34:15):
streets in various places and put trees in them. And
they went and did it after I'd left the job,
in fact, and now these trees from what were big
and hot, hot in the middle of Auckland summer, big
wie dusty streets were really awful, you know, And now
they're just these tree lined streets, little outdoor rooms, you know.
(34:38):
And it's actually improved the value of properties and everything.
So it does create a different architecture in the in
the urban scene. It creates outdoor rooms and people. Yeah,
so I think it's I think what you're doing here
the ola and Jeff is wonderful for capity.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Well, we hope to influence everybody really in the way
they think about trees.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
It is very hard development thinking, and I.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Think we are a number of years behind some of
the other countries in their thinking. And there is, as
La said, is a bit of a chainsaw mentality. I
think in some kiwis.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
It's a bit of a virtue signal, sort of a
tidy up approach. I think people if they're cutting down trees,
they're tidying things up. It's kind of virtuous getting rid
of the leaves and things.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I can understand some concerns among private landowners where they've
got large trees that shadow of the house and the
house might get might get cool, and they want a
bit more sun, or perhaps it keeps the house damp.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, I can understand that it does shade tree.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
That sort of concern, But I'd like them to also
think about the value of those trees and whether a
bit of judicious pruning rather than chopping the thing down
would be as good.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Because trees create a home base for you and your garden.
They create a meaningful home, sense of homing, homecoming, I
think myself, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Somewhere to build your treehouse for the kids, somewhere something
for the kids to climb on.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, and the birds definitely are prolific. Linda maple Beeck
is a local artist. She's been in her garden in
I think it's Carraka Street for like forty years and
she can spend now she's getting a little older, she
considered in your dining table and just spent just looking
(36:44):
out on the garden is so much inspiration for her
as a painter. But she also notices the birds, and
a lot of the birds sort of creep into her paintings.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
As you know.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
And that's yeah, just and actually during COVID, because my
garden was everything for me, because you know, I just
found myself doing a series of paintings and looking through
my window. Just looking out of the window was entertainment
enough during COVID. And I think if people realize that, yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I do wonder if very calming, Yes, I wonder if
people do see the true benefits to their health of trees.
I know personally I get withdrawal symptoms if I haven't
been into a forest for a while. And when I
go into the forest, I feel calm, I enjoy it.
(37:37):
It takes me away from all the other concerns that
might be rushing through my mind. And if it's full
of birds, of course, that's a bonus.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Absolutely. And I mean that Japanese call it forest bathing, yes,
and it's advocation now as a sort of as a
therapy as forest bathing. Yes, Yeah, I think tree space
is exciting because over the year or two, you know,
the individuals have all sort of contributed our own different
kinds of energy to it and got to know different different.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Skills come from all works walks of life, don't we.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yes, Yes, we're quite a diverse group. Yes. We have
gilds a GP and has retired GP and amateur botanists
and you and you created the q E two and Jeff,
you came.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
From metallurgical engineering, and we've.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Got I think a soil scientist or grass scientists, yes,
and then book publisher yes. Yeah. Just going back to
the practical aspect, as Jeff said, trees can impede on
people and be a nuisance to people and that's widely
(38:56):
recognized and breaking up the pavement and all that sort
of stuff. But we've got to think of ways around
that and be creative and not just go for the
destruction approach as the first approach. And one example I
can think of there were the pavers around a big,
perfect carwa tree that I was aware of, and instead
(39:19):
of though the pavers were getting broken up by the
roots of the trees and being uneven and a source
of you know, possible hazard for people. Tripping over, so
the tree was chopped down. But instead of that, a
more creative approach, in my opinion, would have been to
lift those broken pavers away and create a little garden
(39:41):
around this tree. But you know that didn't happen. And
you know all those sort of different approaches that can
be taken by individuals and by counsel to retain a tree.
And as Jeff mentioned, a bit of judicious pruning and
just taking the trouble to rake up the leaves which
(40:03):
people are lazy about leave lying around and you know
where they block up drains and do become a nuisance.
So just generally more awareness of how we can look
after trees and where they fit into our human environment,
which we're so dominant in.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
We're so dominant in. I mean, why do we have
to control the tree? The tree offers us so much.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
The trees offer us as much as the animals around us,
and they inform us.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
They you know, you can see the wind moving in
the trees. They tell you about what's going on in
the weather. They felt a light, they give modulation to
the weather. So why do we have to dominate?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yes, I mean, in our opinion, the benefits far outwigh
the disadvantages.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yes, yes, I mean Capiti is a recreational area by
the nature that it's a coastal area, and so we
should be leading really groups like a tree space and
all of the others that you mentioned. We should be
a leading conservation area and being sort of recognized for it.
(41:12):
I mean it should be very much our approach. And
as you say, we've got the coastal which is the
dune area, but then how does that lead up and
transition up into the hills.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Yes, yes, we've got a very diverse flora as you're say,
from the dune area through wetlands and through the river
gravels and then linking up to the forest area. So
there's quite there's a large variety of trees, which is
an asset and a wonderful wealth.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
And I guess when we're going back, it's this urban
change that we're up in. I mean, Kapiti is subject
to development because it's one of the fewer districts in
the Wellingen region which can manage growth because they feel
that there's this green, green area development, but that.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Is actually can be such a negative. I mean we
need housing or whatever, but we need groups like tree
space because to alert, as you say, for all the developers,
because green field development makes everything so it makes the
land vulnerable, and we see, yeah, developers need to cut
(42:30):
the trees down to maximize their yield. And what do
we achieve in terms of a community space at the
end of it.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yes, yeah, I think the developers need to have need
to have a different approach, and perhaps there ought to
be some rewards for developers in developing things sympathetically for
the environment, such that you know, if they do have
corridor creation or they do have decent plots of land
(43:04):
with good tree planting, and then that then there should
be some reward to the developer in that.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, I think. I think density is a good thing.
I mean urban urban and urban experience is a good thing.
We don't need massively. Our sections are huge, our foot
paths are booms. If you go to Japan, you know,
you know, good urban development is good because it's it's
maximizing the land area and then hand in hand with
(43:33):
the likes of tiny forests and the three hundred open
space area, then you're getting good housing without spreading too
far into the greenfield area. But you're getting the experience
of vibrant nature as well, so that yeah, our well
(43:53):
being is it's being done so well elsewhere with tree
with building that have their own trees growing on them
and providing their own water supply, and growing plants on walls,
and all sorts of imaginative ways in which it's being done,
which is kind of lacking here in New Zealand. And
(44:19):
I mean benefits people emotionally, as we've discussed, but also
it adds to the value of the properties it does,
and it adds to the value of the neighboring properties
because if there's a quality of natural environment, then the
whole street becomes attractive to potential buyers.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Not that you want to.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Increase the value out of sight for in terms of
housing affordability, which happens if the place is beautiful and
the property values go up. But then if we start
looking at good intensification in area it is like which
are already built up. If we could look at the
intensification areas which are already kind of brown field sites
(45:09):
and then adding Milwaukee to the mix and planting to
the mix, then we've got housing affordability. But everybody still
has that experience of because I mean in Japan and Tokyo.
You can envisage a massive metropolis, but all I experienced
was walking around the streets. Was the sense of nature.
That was my dominant experience, was the love of nature,
(45:30):
the ever present feel of nature. Yes, because somehow they
managed to.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Do both well.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
There are more than a thousand of Milwauki sites in Japan, right.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I'm wondering if there's a great, incredibly good British landscape architect.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
His name I've just forgotten. He is amazing, and I
know he's developed with another with a Japanese, a Japanese
conservationist or landowner, a beautiful sort of forariall landscaped area
in Japan.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
And I'm wondering if he's been working with Milawaiki.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
I must look him up. He's done some amazing landscaped
area with the Japanese developer oft. Yeah, it could have
been meliwaikie on.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
I have to check that out.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Yes, Well, there are many people who have come on
board with the Milwaukee principle. The Kent Kent County Council
in the UK, for example, have written a manual on
how to create a Milwauki forest. And I noticed recently
that Norfolk have done something fairly similar.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Hell, Norfolk really Norfolk broad because that's very much the
Broads and the well one things.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Of the Norfolk, the broads in Norfolk years.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, yes, okay, I mean I think things happen in
waves and generations, like in Kapiti. I know, ten twenty
years ago we had Kia Kapiti Environmental Action Action and
then we had and we had so council was a
where then because of the generational thing. And there was
a wonderful woman as a Wlgabites who produced a booklet
(47:07):
of appropriate planting in Capity that Cavity Council had on
its counter for people who were building and developing, and
it was indicating how to plant. So I guess it
goes in waves, and it's great that maybe this is
another wave out of time, you know, with a sense
of intensification that we're hearing.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
And I think this is the time when we should
put in a plug for tree Space Capity and tell
people how they can join and what they can do. Yes.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Well, in fact, I've just created a new email address
called tree space Capity. So that's tree space with a
capital T and a capital S, tree space being one
word dot capity at gmail dot com. So if there
are listeners out there who would like to get in
(47:58):
touch with us, send an email to that address and
we'll answer it. But also if anybody is really keen
on joining our group, then please let us know, because
we'd certainly like to grow the group. At the moment,
we're an unincorporated society, but given sufficient numbers, we can
(48:20):
become an incorporated society, which has significant benefits.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Yes, and for me, I mean it's just wonderful to
be part of a group where the level of engagement
and just interest in the eurven experience and open space
and tree planting and urban areas, it's fantastic. You're just
eating meeting once a month is wonderful. So I think,
(48:49):
you know, for others to join us, it's something that
can grow. I can feel the group growing and gaining
sort of traction already. And so thanks for Ola for
setting it up really and Jeff all the work that
you do in terms of chairperson. It's quite exciting. And
you recently presented a council. I couldn't quite didn't catch
up with that.
Speaker 3 (49:09):
So yes, I did. I think it was a week
ago last Tuesday something like that. Yeah, there were fifteen
groups applying for funds and we were given three minutes
to present our case to counsel, which I did, and
we found out the following day that we've been given
some support in terms of funds. It's not, as I say,
(49:32):
it's not enough to cover the whole costs. So we're
going to have to look for sponsorship. And a number
of us that have already chipped in hundreds and hundreds
of dollars to help us start off.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Roger chapped me on the shoulder, so I must oblige.
Talking of a little tree, Rogers just one of the members,
Rogers came around to my place this morning. In the
six years i've been there, talking about the value of trees,
all of the native birds go by and they drop
the seeds from the kwakar and whatever. And I've just
(50:05):
got all these seedlings. I've got lance woods and five
finger and all of these things all cropping off in
my garden. Beautiful, and so they're in places like in
the driveway and the edge of the driveway, and I
just love them. But he's dug a few of them
up for his own purposes. So that's the value I
(50:26):
mean the birds start to transfer the natives around properties
as well.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
Yes, thanks Ros for reminding me too. Another appeal would
be to listeners out there to get in touch with
us if they have seedlings to offer, or indeed seeds,
because we could be raising them or some of them
at least in our backyards ready for planting next year.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
So when do you start to plant? When do you
start excavating and repairing?
Speaker 2 (50:52):
And a few minutes.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Yes, I would imagine we'd probably start in around April.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Preparing the ground so you plant and winter do yes?
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Plant in winter?
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Yeah, the soil has less chance to dry out.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Ye. And how do you provide shelter?
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Was that not an issue?
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Because the small well, the fence, the rever proof fence
will initially provide a bit of shelter. Yeah, And just
planting the trees close together will provide shelter.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
We will also use little plant guards, yes, which will
helped to shelter them from the breeze and the little
the small plot that we've got actually as adjacent to
something that looks a little bit like a hedge, and
I think that will provide some protection at least from
the westerly wind.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
So What was it like presenting to council?
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Did you find that you managed to marshal all of
your knowledge together.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
On one place.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yes, it was successful because I think at least Roger
tapped me on the shoulder and said, well done. But now,
I mean, this whole concept is quite new to me,
and I'm not as confident in this field of business
as I am as a metallurgical engineer. So yes, it
(52:09):
was as nerve wracking as sitting here talking into a microphone.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Lovely to have you both.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Thank you very much for inviting us.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Is there anything else you'd like to say just about
your experience or your aspirations for the teacher? And well,
I was just discussing with Jeff how distraught I was
to see a beautiful cowie tree recently felled, with a
tree which would have been thirty years old, and right
near the road in Why Can I and suddenly it
(52:42):
was gone. And I'd been admiring this tree ever since
I've been living, and why Can, I'm thinking how wonderful
it was. It was like an old friend. So I
was really just totally.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Yes, every time I walked past that tree, I made
a point of looking at you.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
For people who have these dress that they realized the
importance of them to people that they're taking out some
taking out a kind of part of the street life.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
Yeah, I don't know if they do.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Maybe they don't think of that.
Speaker 1 (53:14):
You had your own little private success outside of tree
space with the Golden ells.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Well, yes, the golden elms in the parking area at
the back of Wyke and I, between the Maria and
the where the Baptist shop is. Some of the elms
along there were looking very drab and looking as though
they were on the way up compared to the others.
Some were doing well, and then you notice the others
(53:39):
were and looking closely at them, I found that the
tarmac had been taken right up to the base of
the tree trunk, which didn't give it any space for
water or breathing for the roots because they were buried
under tarmac. Well, some trees can cope with that maracoly,
(54:01):
but these were not coping and they were looking miserable.
So I pointed this out to the council, and to
their credit, they came and the hard surface was removed
around the root to the trees and there's a now
nice circle where the trees can actually get some water
and some roots can do some breathing, which was great.
(54:22):
That had been quite fair. I'm looking forward to the
spring to see these trees really pop up and do well.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
And do you remember we bit for the walk around
and we saw the old famous pewtera kawa that used
to be part of the pub and you were commenting
that it could actually as a focus. You're walking past it,
but at the ground at the foot of the pewter
kawa could just be a little bit more care in
terms of groundcover, planting or whatever to give it a
focus at street level.
Speaker 3 (54:49):
Is that, yes, the profusion of weeds underneath it rather
detracted from the beauty of the.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Tree when people could actually, yeah, they would focus notice
it more if it was given a little bit more
focused at ground you And that brings me to the
we mentioned the new railway transport hub talk because you'd
talk because you'd inform me about how to manage the
tree routes within the tarmac. At the Golden Elms, I
noticed the trees that they're planted there. They've done very
(55:16):
well with quite wide radiuses around the trunk that are
kind of covered and are kind of grated. Still great
I think so, yeah, that that alerted me because of
how you what you'd.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
Said to me.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
But I think the work that they've done credit to
them a few you know, a few brownie points is
that they if you look sort of more carefully at
the place, they have focused on the old pewter cars
that are there. It's they've been there forever, but you
didn't notice them in the in the sort of hurdy
burley of the highway State Highway one and the trains
coming and going, because they've kind of stilled the place
(55:50):
a weebert. When you have time to sit there as
a commuter, you realize that those pooter cars really do
four ground along the state highway there.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Yes, so things can.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
Be done with what we've got and appreciate what's there
rather than as you say, fell the cowie before you
know it. I think we're probably come to the end
of our time. But what are we right middle of winter?
So what happens in summer? Do you plant less trees?
(56:26):
You plant less trees? Okay, so we're right in the
middle of the tree planting ish moments.
Speaker 3 (56:33):
Now, busy pruning my own trees my property.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Ye know, I've learned a lot more about trees now
that I've been part of this and formed group.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Thank you. Is there anything else you would like to
in terms of giving a prompt for our group?
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Well, just an appeal anybody out there who would have
sympathy with our cause to join us.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Any website designers perhaps.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Or website designers.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
Yes, because we're just getting going on the promotional work
which is looking very nice that current leaflet.
Speaker 3 (57:08):
Yes, and of course the more people, the more ideas
we will have.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Yes, right, I think we'll leave it there. The more people,
the more ideas will have. Thank you very much. Jeff's
Grace and Viola Pama represented as with tree Space here
Local Architecture now for August.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Thank you very much. This program was made with assistance
from New Zealand on Air for radio broadcast and through
the Accessmedia dot MZ website. Thank you New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (57:44):
On a
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