March 6, 2025 • 54 mins
French Canadian contemporary artist Micheline Robinson, tells her story of placemaking activism and creativity in Hoylake Town on the Wirral Peninsula, near Liverpool.
In 2009, Micheline, amid renewed growth as an artist, awoke to the declining town quality of Hoylake and the many small towns in the Wirral Borough Merseyside and did something about it.
As a leading figure in the focus for this regional revitalisation, Micheline’s colourful narrative sets up parallels for our current placemaking awareness here locally, nationally and internationally.
Micheline Robinson is now a resident of the Kapiti Coast.
In 2009, Micheline, amid renewed growth as an artist, awoke to the declining town quality of Hoylake and the many small towns in the Wirral Borough Merseyside and did something about it.
As a leading figure in the focus for this regional revitalisation, Micheline’s colourful narrative sets up parallels for our current placemaking awareness here locally, nationally and internationally.
Micheline Robinson is now a resident of the Kapiti Coast.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hi, this is roslind Ardley again a local architecture now
and we have very much local, a wonderful Micheline Robinson,
a well known brilliant artist in the Kabti region and
throughout the country.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Him Michelon, Hello, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yes, it's wonderful to have you surprised to find that
you're in a previous lifetime in another nation, you were
doing all of this work that I've been trying to
be accomplished here in Cavity for well twenty eight years
to be exact. So yes, what are we going to
talk about today?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, okay, so first of all you introduced me already
as Michelan Robinson, so I'll just talk a bit more
about that. I'm a French Canadian contemporary artist with the
background in film animation from Concordia Universe in Montreal and
i did fine arts as well in at Ottawau. So
I've been a practicing artist for thirty years. And what
(01:08):
am I going to talk to about today is my
stint in the UK just previous to coming to New Zealand.
So I've been in New Zealand for twelve years, so
previous to that I lived in the town of Hoylake
on the Rural Peninsula. It's between it's the peninsula is
(01:28):
between North Wales and Liverpool, between the River Mersey and
the d and so I moved to that location in
two thousand and five after living in South Wales first
and as well, so we've moved a lot, my husband
and I so like the Kapiti Coast. It's a seaside town.
(01:49):
When we moved there, it was in steady decline since
the nineteen eighties. They had public baths and whatnot which
they had closed. And I think it's similar here, isn't it.
Weren't there public paths and room as well that brought
tourists to the area.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Not necessarily they had a pool thing and that they
had a water slide.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Oh okay, well okay, So it was similar in and
so in steady for the town of Hoylake. Anyway, it
really affected the economy and what not.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
To not have the pools.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
And also in two thousand and eight there was the
economic financial crisis as well, and anyway, our seaside town
looked a bit barren, but we liked being there because
my husband was living I was working in Liverpool, had
had a job offered in Liverpool and it was close
to nature, and so I became involved in the town
(02:42):
regeneration project.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
And that was something that you actually initiated.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
That one I didn't initiate.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
What I did initiate was the real open studio tour,
but I will talk about that.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
If you sure.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Essentially, Hoylake is a bit like you would be living
in the Kebedy Coast and one of someone w'd be
working in Wellington, say correct, exactly, I was working in
Wellington and choosing to live in a gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Geography exactly the same because obviously.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
An artist and awareness and being close to that whatever reason,
smaller population and so close to nature. Yes, so, yes,
it was amazing to find that. You know, you've come
to New Zealand as an accomplished artist, contemporary artist, but
you've also developed your your work and yourself through practical
on the ground kind of community as to understanding of
(03:32):
what's going on around you, and that drew you to
become active.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes, well, what the catalyst for that? Actually?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Because I wasn't always proactive, I think I mean I
was pretty much like a typical artist, you know, kind
of insular inside my own bubble for the longest time,
you know, I wasn't so much community looking towards the
community until what happened in Hoylake. And right after the
(03:59):
two thousand and eight crisis, our library, our town library,
was threatened to close. So the library was community hub
for our town. It was used by many parents as
a pit stop on the way back from collecting children
at school, as it was our case, and it was
used by the homelessly, elderly, and basically everybody everyone because
(04:20):
the population in Hoylake was similar to patap Ramu in
terms of I mean, it was about five thousand people,
you know, so it was quite small really, and so
when they were threatening to close it, it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Was felt by all.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So when they threatened, we all came together in protest,
and that was lovely the energy that came from it.
We all petitioned, protested, the children got involved, we got
on the news, everybody went to the meetings, you know,
and we eventually won won our case. And so the
buzz that followed from that was incredible and it propelled
(04:56):
quite a few of us to become proactive, and I
definitely became active from that. And so suddenly there was
a possibility for change, you know, just just a fact.
It was a small thing, but just the idea that
we had done that. So I thought, well, what else
can I do, you know? And so for me personally,
I thought of there weren't many arts activities on the peninsula,
(05:20):
and I thought of an arts trail because I had
participated one in the UK, which was called Artists in
or Midst And I thought, well, why don't I bring
that here? So I put an ad in the paper
and the next thing you knew, the I think it
was a day after I had tons of people asking
if they could join, and went from there. But what
(05:42):
was happening at the same time was because there was
this energy. There was a man named Mark who had
visions for the town and another named Matt who had
also a background in town planning, and they joined forces
to start Hoylake Vision and their goal was to regenerate
the for a better future. Now I heard about that
as well, and I got involved as well, and that's
(06:04):
where when we met and talked that that was a
project that I was part of as well.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Know how we got on to that subject, but I'm
so glad we did. I was so glad we drew
that out. And I think then, of course you mentioned Liverpool,
and then I mentioned that my colleague has also spoken
on this program was active in Liverpool even though she
was based in San Francisco. That's right, Yes, in having
lived there, I think in the eighties, and she set
up an oral history program in the street that she
was living in back in the eighties. And it was
(06:33):
only like in the last five two or three years
she said I'm going to pull all those oral histories
together and.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Create a book.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So she revisited it in her much later years and
was going back and forth to Liverpool for doing sort
of sessions and setting up like an arts walkway down
to the to the to the harbor and.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Things like that. And that's how we connected.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yes, and then you and then Kay sent you her
book luck Lane Stories or whatever it's called. And yes,
that was an amazing connection as well across countries, like
if you were in Montreal sheaves from San Francisco, Liverpool,
New Zealand. Yes, yeah, so of course this is totally
relevant to what's happening here in Keepity right now. Awareness
(07:15):
of community development is in sort of junction with you know,
in the face of there's going to be a lot
of greenfield development coming through right now, I can see it.
You know, there's just going to be so much going
north of Wayken I, which is still a green area,
but it will inevitably be under threat from from just
obviously general subdivision development. So how do we, then, in
(07:37):
the face of that, still create community with what we've got,
Looking at what we've got, create community and what we've
got so that all of these new housing places have
a community to come to when eventually they develop.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yeah, yep, So well, okay, so you're you're for that.
I would say something similar to what John Gorman. So
at the same time as I was doing the Real
Open Studio tour and HBL was happening in Oxton, which
was another town about twenty minutes from Hoylake, there's a
(08:13):
man called John Gorman.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Now, John Gorman is known.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Probably by many here through He was in a band
called the Scaffold in the sixties seventies, and one of
his songs was Lily the Pink, The Pink, the Pink
and the Band. He was in the band with Mike McCartney,
who's Paul McCartney's brother. Anyway, he's quite famous in England
for having done Tis Was and other things. Anyway, so
(08:37):
he's also a poet and he had a big vision
for a festival of Firse and the festival first basically
was about bringing all the arts together, theater, music, arts,
anything you can think of, and his plans for Hoylake.
(08:57):
He eventually moved to Hoylake because he found out about me. Anyway,
it's a long story which I could get into eventually,
but and for he wanted the longest art art exhibition
in the world by having the paintings aligned from one
side of the promenade that went all along the peninsula
to the other and things like that, you know. And
(09:18):
so what he did was he got.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Everybody involved.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
He asked anybody who had talent, so the whole community
was invited to participate. It wasn't just getting celebrities coming
in and paying for celebrities to come in. He was
actually going top you know, from the bottom up, you know,
trying to get people who were in the community to participate.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
And so he could see it from his point of view,
haven't been a successful artist, he could still understand that
the pulse of that is from people exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I'd like to go back to.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
The HVL because that also got people involved. What we
did for when when we started, we had a meeting.
Basically we held the meeting in front of the community
to call them to see if people wanted to reshape,
would buy into the vision of reshaping the future of
the community. So there are several movements in the UK
(10:15):
in two thousand and nine because of the economic crisis
and whatnot that I don't know if you've had transition
groups here, transition town groups here. The movement it's a
group of people who are making positive change happen locally
in their village, town, city, neighborhoods or sometimes in their school.
It's about spreading viray rather than playing planned and directed
(10:36):
and transition groups can form anywhere in the world. So
the philosophy, basically they ask, is a local economy making
the most of the potential offered by the place where
people live whilst taking care of it for the future.
Is a work that's being done and is being produced
in the area, helping to make the community a happier
and healthier. And how can we support enterprises in activity
(11:00):
through which benefits are shared widely rather than enjoyed only.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
By a few.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
So that's that was the philosophy that was and so
throughout the UK at the time, and people were following
the movement in a lot of towns. They were trying
to bring people to think locally rather than externally to
(11:26):
their communities. So shop locally, if you know, approve, do
produce locally, banking locally, you know, and trying to to
center it locally. And so that's basically what HBL was
all about as well, was to try and to bring
people to think local and to try and get people
(11:46):
excited and to create a bus as well. So it
we went from shops to shops to ask We brought
donation boxes shops to shops to see if people wanted
to participate and donate to creating a better town aesthetically.
So by investing in the town aesthetically and making it
(12:08):
more pleasing, we would perhaps bring more business to come
to the area. And so we yeah, we we brought
donation boxes to all the businesses and people did donate
and so we were able to create Christmas lights for
the town, put up banners so that the town was
(12:32):
more welcoming. A lot of volunteers donated their time. There
was Hoylake in Bloom that donated their time to plant
flowers along the problems and anywhere that's train station. And
we also try to raise money to do the awnings
(12:54):
on top of shops and that.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Actually did work.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
People, you know, companies were more interested in investing because
there's a lot of empty shops in the area. And
then we had big projects as well, so that my
real open studio tour, even though it was separate, it
was kind of supported by hbl you know, and John
Gorman's festival first was also kind of supported.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
You know. We all worked together basically, and so a
lot more people.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
We tried to get everybody as many people involved in
and the energy because there was still the energy from
fighting the libraries. I guess that's part of it. That
that was I think one of the reasons why people
had this energy. So how how would you get people to.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Get more involved?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I think by creating events that involve everyone, by getting
people to participate and not have top down management, you know,
things that are open basically.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I mean the fact that you were able to do
this and we know, have you told me how successful
the arts trailer is and it's still thriving, yes, but
that that the basic principles when you read out of
the transition intentions, and that you actually activated it and
kept it from that from the concern about the library
and the success of the activism around that, but to
(14:27):
keep that energy going based on the essence of community principles.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
It's really good to have it described.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Right, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah. Well, for the way I structure the Arts Trail
was again not top down, it was really I mean,
I definitely because it was my baby, I definitely did
kind of decide how what was I mean, I had
rules and regulations in terms of what I wanted for
the Arts Trail, So you know, you had to be
(14:56):
a professional artist or somebody who was aspiring to be
a professional artist to be on board. But apart from that,
it was people in the community, and I mean everybody
came in as a volunteers. Myself I was a volunteer,
and so I had somebody doing the website, somebody doing marketing,
somebody doing and everybody kind of came together. All the
artists that were on the trail took that role, you know.
(15:18):
So I held meetings and everybody kind of pitched in
and decided you know, told them, told me their strength
and what they thought they could bring to the table.
And so it was a collaborative effort rather than really directing.
It was more you know, how how can you help?
And and and so everybody had it brought meaning to them,
(15:39):
you know, because they were in charge of their own
department and whatnot. They were happy to collaborate without feeling
like they were put upon or you know. It was
a real exercise in trust and it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Was very good energy.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
And and yes, it is still going on today, and
it's still the same people of managing it. And we
went from nine people the first year when I first
did it, it was only nine people, and this year
they said they had ninety nine. So it's quite yes,
that's quite nice that I'm away, but it's still happening.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And I don't want to break into your flow of thought.
But one of Kay's great things, who we know, he's
an as of advocate and internationals at residencies, she was
that this was open from people from nine to ninety nine.
Oh right, that was so afraid from nine to ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Alright, God, isn't that funny?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Lot happening at the time, and there was zeed in
Project that decided to try an experiment. I don't know
if you've heard about the Big Lunch, and that was
throughout the UK. They were again, I think, because they
were trying to find ways to bring communities together, and
that would be a very good way actually to bring
(16:56):
communities together.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
People.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
They would cause so you get permission to close off
certain sections of streets and all the streets would come
together to have a lunch, and so people would make
meals and bring it to the table, you know, some whatever.
If you had a table at your house, you could
bring it to the street and all the streets were
closed at the same time. But it's all allowed for
(17:20):
a big lunch and it's called the Big Lunch. And
we definitely did that in hoy Lake. And so you
just go from street to street and you get to
know the neighbors and you know, it really was an
opportunity for everyone to get to know each other. And
on our street we had a Mad Hatters party, so
everybody was invited to create their own hats and the
children had kind of did a little parade, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So it was lovely.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It was just and that's definitely a way to bring
because people, especially in new suburbs and whatnot, will be
going to work I don't know where. Maybe they could
be traveling to Wellington, but they won't necessarily know the
people in their community. And it is so important to
know your neighbors because if there's an emergency or whatnot,
it definitely peas to have that kind of interaction and
(18:05):
to know who's beside you and to have that support.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I mean, that's central.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I mean for me, people don't they buy their house
and they put invest in their house and invest in
their property. Yes, but under all of that there's the
idea of being part of the community, of being part
of that place exactly, and how do you actually articulate that? Yes,
and that the long lunch, the long tables all connected
is such a great I mean I wanted to do
(18:31):
it done on Remu Street. I wanted it, but we
never got round to doing it. Yes we would. I
could have just had it. I was thinking we could
just have it on a weekend. You know by Kappa
NUIs School at the gate closed. There's a big long
driveway in there and all the remove people could remedy
street residents could just all link up tables in that
driveway going into the school. We didn't do it, but
it's great to know that it is actually recognized as
(18:53):
a RECOGNI recognized form of community efforts.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yes, yes, so there is that, and there was also
weile Incredible Edible. I don't know if you've I think
that's here as well, Incredible Edible. That was another movement
that happened around the same time as well, and that
was about planting vegetables and fruits in your community. We
did that as well. That was also under the HVL thing,
(19:19):
and so you could pick up lettuces at the local
train station. You know. It was just the whole idea
of it is to have free food for the community.
And so I was quite lovely as well.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yes, all that happened in sort of sprung up in
quite a very.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Very short period of time, very short.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Huge amount of energy, I think, and obviously it showed
how much energy you had to actually have the energy
but also the vision and get across so many different activities.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
But it's contagious and I think when you're working with
other people. So I think we had talked about this previously.
I actually went through a bit of a burnout in
two thousand and five and had recovered, and so when
this happened, it was like I was a phoenix rising
(20:09):
out of the ashes, you know, and it just brought
me right back. And also doing the Arts Trail got
my confidence back as well, you know, knowing, oh I
can do something still, I'm still active. But it happened
in a short period of time, because it was only
from two thousand and for me. The Arts Trail was
two thousand and nine and I moved in at the
end of twenty twelve, so we're talking about a.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Three year period.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
And in that time I wasn't only working with John
Gorman and my Arts Trail and or HVL, but also
I had done local things like I did a gingerbread house.
Not a contest, but I asked everybody in the town
to bring their own gingerbread houses to the town hall,
(20:54):
and my husband and I took the train set out
that the children had and we put like a train
between all the houses and we illuminated. We turned out
the lights and illuminated it. And so it just felt
it was contagious. I mean, you did one thing and
it made you want to do something.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Else, you know. It just it was very good energy.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And also we did for Easter egg hunt. I went
to the school and asked the children to paint eggs
I had done example examples and whatnot, and then we
turned the town into an Easter egg hunt and had
all the children put their Easter eggs throughout the town.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So that was quite nice.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
You know. It's something that again was free. All the
children were doing it themselves. It didn't cost anybody anything.
And that's another thing I'd like to say is most
of these things, apart from like obviously purchasing the banners
and the awnings and whatnot, I mean, a lot of
this was free. You know. It's just just took a
bit of time from people to to do. But most
(21:56):
people contributed their time and efforts and that's what made
it up.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And it wasn't we weren't.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Waiting for hand outs or funding or whatnot. It was
just people saying I want to change and I'm going
to help.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And yes, So how do you think that really happened?
I mean, I know you've told us how it happened, yes,
But to have that sense of everybody coming to rising
to the occasion or being wanting to be involved, and
all these brilliant ideas that just kept popping up and
getting actually undertaken. Yes, I mean it is a really
(22:30):
good story because it is quite rare. I mean, we
do tend to wait for handouts, or we do tend
to wait for someone who can do it, and often
these things get so watered down by committees and sort
of ideas and sort of politics. That it's a really amazing,
sort of galvanizing, sort of little gem to hang onto. Yes,
and that it's a story that can be repeated. I
(22:52):
think if it's happened, and this is what I wanted
to talk about news last session, Yes, is that these
these stories need to be archived because there's always somebody,
there's always a group of people who want to do this.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I think it's just seeing the positive change. I think
that's what gets people involved. Is I think usually it
does start with a small group of people who are proactive,
and but I think once people see oh, actually this
is this is bringing change to the community, or this
is I can see it, then they will want to
be acted.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Because I could.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Say that initially we didn't get everybody on board. The
first year, it was mainly people behind the scenes making
things happen. When we got the website growing, the first
few meetings we had barely anybody showed up. You know,
it took a while, Okay, I'd say it took about
a year. But once things started to happen and people
started to seeing the benefits and whatnot, then then the
(23:46):
town started to participate and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
And do you think that was key to your kind
of approach, the sort of grassroots approach that you were
still doing it even though there was a few of you,
but you had a vision, a committee. You had a vision, yes,
and you keep to that, but you keep going.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I think that's important. The vision is important.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
I think you have to have a very clear idea
of where you would like to go before you start,
and you just don't get defeated by Because we had
a lot of knocks, I mean the empty shops. We
went to see a lot of businesses who had empty
shops and asked them whether they would allow us to
use the premises for pop ups and whatnot. And we
(24:24):
had a lot of nose as well, you know, yes,
a lot of you until until businesses started coming in
and then they saw the benefits I mean for my arts, trail. Initially,
I went to see artists that I really want to
have on board, and they didn't want to join for
the first year because they you know, it affected maybe
their reputation or whatnot. You know, they didn't know what
(24:45):
they were getting into. But once they started seeing, oh,
actually this is quite professional, this is you know, then
they wanted to so that eventually, yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
And the businesses also started to come.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Around, exactly sponsorships as well.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Initially I didn't get the first year, I didn't get
much sponsorship, but then, you know, once they started seeing
the benefits, now it wasn't just the arts trail. The
first year I also did so I did the arts trail,
but the friday before the Arts trail, I had a
preview and I rented the community hall, which was an
(25:21):
old school, and I invited poets to do their thing,
and I invited musicians. So in the different rooms you
had different events happening. And I think that's what made
people think, oh, Okay, actually there's there's potential here. You know,
there's yes, so it's it's yes. You have to have tenacity,
I think initially, but in our case, it didn't take
(25:44):
long at all for people to start really getting excited.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Now, it did help with the festival.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
First that it was John Gorman, because everybody did love him,
so maybe getting somebody on board that has a bit
of a reputation.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
You know that he almost came to you, didn't he absolutely?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I mean he moved to my town because of me.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
That he said that.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
So I was his initial chair for his festival. But
then it just got too much with everything else I
was doing. And I had three young children too, so
I just so I passed it on to Strilling done
to do the rest. But but I did I feel
like I did contribute to, you know, all the key elements.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I introduced him to all the people that he needed wondering.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So I mean, I think in these provincial towns, say,
and even if they're sort of undercline, I mean, all
of the really talented people who are living there trust
to live there. There's also a sense of under cell
because I'm living in the provinces or you know, there's
only a few of me or so people just tend
to get on with their own work and it's not
going to work because look, the town doesn't look like
(26:46):
Gramaros or what either, Yes, which is the opposite of
what you've proved to be the case.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Right, Yes, and on that I've had artists that thank
me after, and that was I think the biggest gift
of doing this was that there weren't many things on
the World Peninsula when I moved there.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
There was once a.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Year they had d Side the d Side Art group
that had an exhibition hall and did an exhibition. And
one of the artists came to me and he said,
before I joined this. Now he was my website designer,
but also a very good artist. He said, before I joined,
I was quite depressed. And he said, you saved me.
And that was and I had at least two people
(27:29):
say that, and that was lovely that just for that
it was.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Worth it, you know, just just to that.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yes, in community, people underestimate community involvement,
how important it is just for mental health and everything.
I mean, it saved me, Yes, this whole thing saved me.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And if you're doing it through growth, through who you
really are, that's when you said, for you, it flowered.
There were so many things that you saw possible. I mean,
is to and train sets going through gingerbread houses. Who
would have thought that? But it's sort of like an
evolving growth thing and you went with it for some reason.
And so yes, like various artists, you know that we
(28:11):
don't want to live in the big city because we've
got ideas and we need to be somewhere we can
allow those days to flow.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
So we come to places of a less.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Crowded or the or the rents lower, or whatever the trail.
But then you do think, oh, it's very much about
yourself managing in this gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Environment, but there's not much happen.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's happening, and then you think, oh, we're a bit
lesser than the hotspots in town. You know you're not,
because you've got your fulfilled by your own thoughts and activities.
But that level of under cell group under cell, when
it doesn't have to be that way. And this is
why I think these stories are so important and that
we don't have to rely on like what you were saying,
(28:53):
it's quite clearly is how that idea of you're being
not delegating, but being so able to be seeing the
potential of others that they all sort of rose to
their own skills in that team off they did, and
they all had a chance to do I mean they're
all highly skilled and creative. Anyway to be able to
to be able to give the opportunity to to shine
(29:16):
is growth, yes, yeah, And if you're growing yourself, you
often do see opportunities all round the place that could
be could benefit from change, don't you Which is what happened.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Well, it gives you self confidence. It's a self confidence.
So if you, yes, if you shine, then you started
building self confidence. And then with a self confidence then
you can then initiate yourself So it becomes.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
A cicular sort of it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yea, it becomes an empowerment thing.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So with the empty shops, was that a bit daunting?
I mean to think about how you could actually men
approach that?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Absolutely it was.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
And so but luckily we had a few that had okayed,
you know, that that had given the or can. Because
of that, we were able to prove that we could
do it and that it was quite beautiful. You know.
We had an right exhibition in one and we actually
managed to get a business to come in who was,
you know, working from home and they worked from the
(30:08):
location that looked quite nice.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
And so you're looking all sorts of opportunities like pop
ups in these in these empty shops for them because
it was back in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Ers.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yes, Now a term pop up was wasn't even really
on anybody's radar really back then.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Sort of in the UK.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
It was because I was quite familiar with it then
you were then. But yes, so it must have been
in the terminology maybe in London or I don't know,
but it definitely.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Was coming there.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, because I mentioned this, I mentioned the term pop
up back in two thousand and.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Nineteen maybe, and when somebody said, what's a pop up?
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And I was just talking about we can do this
pop up community thing.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
What's a pop up?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You know?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And so you have to sort of like, how do
you explain it? Right? Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, And I
just thought of almost want to go back to this
that you were reading about transition. I mean, those are
the principles that I'm always glad to hear it again.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
I'll go further just so I don't repeat myself, but
the questions that I said, basically, is a local economy
making the most of the potential offered by the place
where we live whilst taking care of it for the
future is a work that's being done. And what is
being produced in our area, helping to make our community
happier and healthier. How can we support enterprises and economic
activity through which benefits are shared widely rather than enjoyed
(31:27):
only by a few, And these questions often prompt action.
Economy is a broad term we used to cover the
range of activities that transition groups undertake with a view
to transforming their local economy.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
The economy is, yes, brilliant.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yes, so increasingly transition groups are about starting new enterprises,
especially community owned energy companies and food businesses. Others are
developing local currency projects, setting up by local campaigns, or
working with local businesses in some way. Yes, And that
was a bit the case.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
So that there's a tool, it's a communication tool or
activation tool that is that is very useful because I
mean I try to enunciate that time and time again
yes to council, and it's like, how do I say this, yes,
you know, and how do they see economy as something
that comes from the activation of the local people or
even people coming in can see they see the benefit
(32:23):
of all of that. It's economic and it's arts, and
it's ordinary activities that create more economic activity.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yes, yeah, And I'm just thinking of the Capiti course. Now,
I mean there are quite a few things that are happening,
and you know the caboche and also I have a
friend who the crop share that that happens every month,
I think, and that brings community together. I think, you know,
people grow their own crops and then share it with others.
(32:50):
Have you heard of that.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
In the suburban gardens?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yes, and you can bring anything now.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
My friend Kay, and there's others which I don't know
that I forget their names, started that here on the
Capital Coast and I find that quite invigorating. I mean,
I have been to a few and you can only
you can have as little as one lemon that you
want to share, and you can share it with somebody
else who has equivalent and that's good enough. And that's
(33:16):
another way to get the community together, because especially now
with the downturn of the economy and we're talking of
recession and there's a lot of unemployment, this would be
a good way to help people save money and then
be able to get ideas exactly get ideas, but also
then it's sense it brings bonding, but also then you've
(33:37):
got money left over for to put into the economy
for other things.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
You know, it's just you know, so that's an that's
an idea.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Absolutely yeah, And I was just thinking of Mari Land.
I mean, they've got a wonderful to use a cliche
business model now, but they grew out of a vision
of wanting to harness or takes lifeblood of talent and
Mauri tongue, and then they formed it around the idea
(34:05):
of a film film film world. Yes, and that's it's
worked well for taking and for the people who are
actually the artist within it well exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
And that's exactly the kind of project that works, I
mean because then they're proud, you know that there's a
and I love that festival.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I've been quite a few times and it.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Has a great energy and I've seen Canadian films. They're indigenous,
indigenous Canadian Canadian.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Films there as well. And no, that's that's a lovely project.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yes, yeah, And I think right now everyone's talking about
the doom and gloom and the decline of Wellington, so
just repeating these stories as we're doing today, it's just
saying this is, this is this is okay.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
This is what we do.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
You know, this is what we do is people living
in small towns or bigger towns or and and and
this is what keeps the economy from reviving and revitalizing
encycles exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
I mean when I was talking.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
To Michael Bloss the last month about his beautiful book
that he published about the shaping of NUSA, I'm just
looking at your document I don't know who.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Produced this, but that was Mark.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
That was.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Just gorgeous documentation which isn't over the top or over designed,
but it's just comes through with gorgeous colors, really meaningful
little photos, just laid out beautifully that idea of commitment
to communication, which is just a product of the underlying
idea of where community we really want to make this happen.
(35:34):
But it comes through in the presentation, which is not
overly designed, but it's just it.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Shows a professional product, and it shows commitment.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
It shows commitment and just the way it's just so lovely,
so people can hold this in their hand and that
this represents me. This is about me. I get this,
This is part of me. This is for me, And
I think that's also emblematic of a group of people
who've got something to say and I want to get
it out there.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Yeah. Yeah, and so.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
You know, we all know how incredibly prolific you are
with your work here now in New Zealand. So I
guess all of that sort of flourishing and action and
work and across various medium in a place like over
in a region out of Liverpool, you're now can companies
and just just take off and do your own thing again.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
But I do miss the community aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
I do want, yes, I mean, I must say the
reason I became so prolific when I moved to New
Zealand was although this was lovely, you know, because I
was one of the instigators and I carried a lot
of the weight, it was a kind of a release
of all the responsibility because I had so many artists.
(36:48):
By when I left, there was about fifty artists on board.
And I mean even if I had volunteers, a lot
of the questions came to me, you know, and what not,
So that was more of a release.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Like ah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
It's surprising to us have seen that coming to Michelin
in your studio and you're working on your own and
you're obviously setting up all your own exhibitions around the
place and managing all of that and.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Seeing so much work.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Who would have known behind this there was this really
hard working but across so many spheres, keeping all that
all of that going is so interesting and it's offering.
You know, it's now retrospectively bringing something back in a
story form. And I think it's the future, you know,
I think I think the future is community and responding
(37:35):
to community in the environment. And I mean this program
is about architecture, but we we as architects, we built
architectural designers. We put buildings into the environment, but ultimately
that building impacts the community, impacts the environment, and when
someone lives there, they want to know that they're part
(37:55):
of a meaningful community.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yes, well there was another part actually talking about the environment.
That was another thing that we had issues with. The
beach was sprayed every year with life Life usits I
think it's called and round up the I don't you
know the And that was because they wanted to make
sure that the grasses wouldn't come back up, because they
(38:18):
wanted to try and bring the turists in, and also
to let people walk around. If you looked at the
River Dee, they let the grasses grow and then you
couldn't really walk on the beaches. There because it was
all taken over by the grasses. So it was in
theory the councils wanted to keep a bit.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Of a beach and that's why they did it.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
But then, yeah, there was concern for for health and whatnot,
so we looked at that and now the grasses are
are growing a bit, but it's it's more there's still
some chemicals being released in some areas, but at least
they're letting some of the grasses come back.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Would you call them night of June grasses?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yes, exactly, so their native dren grass, yes, which should
be there. It should be which a native to watch,
a natural to that, Yes, and they were they were spraying.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yes for the beach.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Yes, I mean that's and so you actually had even
though doing all these other things, you could see that was.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Something that needed tontinue to.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Was just part of well, the town was the of yes, yes,
my god, yes, I mean what.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
About how does that?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I mean apparently round up as faith, you know, that's
how weeds get doctor all over the farmlands and New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
But how does that idea of going into.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
The water and well, and like the little creatures that
live in the sands and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Yeah, because you have to think of biold diversity as well,
don't you. I mean, when you're thinking of these projects
and whatnot, you're also looking at the wider picture and
where the environment we're living in as well.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
It's not just looking.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
At the the economy, but also looking at biodiversity and
and and yeah, I had questions about that actually because
I I don't want to bring this sombread, but I
lost quite a few friends to cancer when I lived
in Hoylake and it's still not knowing why there are
so many, it was such a high level of cancer.
But I wonder if that was maybe part of it,
(40:09):
you know, just but this is on.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Air, and I don't know.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so but interesting.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I mean I guess that they have their reasons for this.
I mean, there was obviously obviously particular kind of keategogical
reasons why the spray was fine.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
It was necessary well because there was sand yachting, and
there was economic reasons to keep it a beach.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Okay, I think that's part of it as well.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
And also people did enjoy walking on the you know,
it did bring some tourism, so that's why it was
a bit of a debate because by spraying you had
a beach which brought tourists and then people could enjoy.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
But council regional, No, no, it's a local.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
It was, yes, similar to k c DC. We heard
the Royal Council.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Because actually it's probably about the time when dunes and
wetlands was starting to be real praised. I mean back
in two thousand and nine, two thousand and five or
even like Queensworth Park. We had a big save Queensworth
Park I think it was twenty and fourteen, even at
two thousand and four maybe, and people started to reappraise
(41:16):
dune lands and grasses. And now it's a very strong
kind of awareness, isn't it And people love.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Oh I love it. I'm there almost.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
I'm at Queen Elizabeth Park almost every day walking the
different trails. It's a fantastic park.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yes, we didn't seem to appreciate like there was a bush.
We do it become much more aware of the bush remnants.
But the dunes were like the last the last you
know of neglect and now so you were that was
there in the mix as well, yes, yeah, gosh so
so yeah, grant, they weren't just green grass from the
(41:51):
paddock they worked for june grasses.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Yes, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
And so I have two daughters who went back to
the UK and said, Mum, you wouldn't recognize it. It's
completely differ now and you see the grasses everywhere and hour. Yeah,
I know it's still a source of debate in the town.
I'm not there anymore, but yes, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
But yeah, yeah, that's fantastic to go back to these places.
And then, of course, like you say, you came to
your sin and you.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Were free you could do your work.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
So I mean, this work now is so contemporary and
useful right now. You did it what twenty years ago
or something. And these sorts of ideas often are sort
of ahead of their time in a way, because I mean,
you're coming out of your own personal growth phase or
addressing a personal growth moment or I don't know how
to describe it without cliches. But I think all of
(42:41):
those voices who aren't necessarily around the table of power
are the ones that are seeing where they're living and
seeing what they love, and they're here because it's healing
or they need to move somewhere quieter, and they have
all this knowledge and awareness, and to be in a
situation where so much so many of those people can
actually come together and do work that meets the sort
(43:03):
of they're sort of an there are the sense of
what they see the place about. And that's, you know,
what I call urban design advocacy. It's not just urban
development and building stuff and figuring out where the parks go.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Yes, but I think key to that, just to go back,
how do people implement this kind of change? I think
you not only do you have to have the vision,
but also I think you have to have commitment to
time and making it happen. I mean, we were meeting
once every two weeks and giving each other tasks so
and making sure we're all on task, you know, And
(43:38):
so I think the key to make it happen is
to really have that kind of commitment. And and the
HVL became a CIC and I don't know if you
have that here, but it's a community interest company, okay,
And that allowed if we were to get funding or
what not. And are you familiar with community interests conecting through?
(44:00):
So it's about companies that are interested in social change
and environmental change. So yeah, So that's that's another thing.
It's just too.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I mean, a small place out of Liverpool's got a
lot to teach us. We didn't know these were things
that we could do, right, I don't know what we
must have all sorts of. We've got very much. I
know we've got very much.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Now.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Companies with mari staff or ownership have a sort of
a Maori interest company kind of thing going. Yes, but yeah,
a community interest company. Yes, I think they sort of
passed back into oblivion that kind of brilliant concept.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
No, I think.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I know. It's a Newish I mean it was a
Newish company concept when I was there. I think it
started in two thousand and five in the UK, and
I'm not sure why they brought it, And maybe because
they wanted to give power back to community to do
their own thing.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
And yeah, great, and go to hear stories from England,
because we don't just think of England as a great
big play, right, different cultures are all rubbing shoulders with
each other. How can anything organized ever come out of it? Yes,
but at a small village scale, of course it does.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah. Well, the world's quite interesting as well. I mean
we just to give you a bit of the history.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
I mean at one time, it's quite flourishing and unfortunately
we're talking about colonial times and whatnot.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
You know, we're flourishing as an as Liverpool.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Liverpool was flourishing.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
I mean you read People of the Lane by Keith
if they talk a bit a bit about that. Unfortunately Liverpool,
Liverpool was furnishing, unfortunately because of you know feel well,
not only that, but also the slave trade. It was
one of the Triangle, so a lot of money came
onto the world because of that, and then there was
(45:46):
a steel the shipbuilding and whatnot after that that followed,
and then a lot of people made money from that
as well, from the shipbuilding and whatnot, because it was
one of the major ports was was Liverpool. But then
in the I guess it would been probably in the
seventies when the shipbuildings the eighties, I'd have to recheck
the dates exactly. Suddenly, because the shipbuilding trade left the
(46:10):
Liverpool region, then suddenly people were made redundant and Birkenhead,
which is on the world on the east side of
the world, became extremely poor and it is now still
one of the UK's poorest cities. And so on one
(46:31):
side of the world you have one of the most
affluent places. You have a lot of money still on
the west side of it. But so it's kind of
a place of like a dichotomy between both worlds basically.
And I think that's part.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Of it as well, is.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
There is a need for social I think people are
aware of it more there because there is such a
distance between the wealth and haves and the have nots.
And and perhaps that's another reason why it was allowed
to thinks we're able to bloom as well, because people
want to change and to help local communities, but because.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
It was an evident tension from historic from thental now
exactly so, was there any mining involved in the area.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Not in the area not here.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
It was more of the result of mining and steel
and in other areas that created the ship building and
the steel industry back and the industry revolution and Liverpool sprang up,
and so all of these smaller little areas would have
been pretty fast, fast growing back in the day. But
then there's no industry now correct to sort of meet
the need.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, and that's when art steps and always yes, I
mean in sort of like all over cities all over
the world, the sort of dying parts of New York
and whatever. We're artists sort of moving in the fifties
and then.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
H and there's a danger of gentrification as well, which
didn't happen luckily. I mean, you know, there was always
a consciousness not to make it gentrified, okay, and I
mean of the projects we had, things like the Beacon project,
So that started initially before even the name Beacon.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
We wanted to bring a cinema to the town.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
That was another way to.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Bring the community together. And so the first time we
did it.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
We had it in the local community center. We brought
chairs and we all watched around Christmas time, we watch
It's a Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Life and uh.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
And then that became a big project where we wanted
to have a building with you know, a local, proper
local cinema and then artist studios and whatnot. But it
was always there was always a thought towards making sure
that things didn't get to.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Gentrified posture. Ger So you had it right back then.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yes, right, well then that's really important, yes, And so
did you gentrifications sort of creeping.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
Well unfortunately, Yeah, the spirit that was Thereah, hasn't you know,
quite maintained that there's been Yeah, it's because the economy
has just slowly eroded a bit more so it's a
story to watch. It's still it's yeah, it's still in process.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
It's wonderful a.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Story to watch, Yes, because as I keep talking about
the Looser Project, I mean, it was amazing. They had
the idea of grassroots and they never wanted to become
sort of an elite, gorgeous town. But you know, they're
struggling under the weight of their own success. But they
don't want it to become just an exclusive haven.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
For exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
But it's hard, you know, as things get more successful
or the sort of mission, the sort of message in
the mission that's right there at the start gets lost
later down the trade implementation of others.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
And if things so successful, then obviously companies want to invest.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
And then that's when it happens.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
I mean, that's when you know you've got investors coming
from elsewhere who want to bring their own that have
their own motivations for for a location and whatnot. But yes,
there's definitely a social awareness before we started and of inclusivity.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yes, yes, yes, do you think you would ever formulate
this was a story and just sort of have it
met there.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
Well, I've been thinking about it. My daughter's been, my
youngest has been really pushing me to do that. Okay,
I think watch that space for her because I think
she's she's planning on her big projects as well. But
I know it's inspired her to do because she remembers
it as a child being involved in all this since
she quite.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Enjoyed it, so alive for her.
Speaker 4 (50:40):
Still, yes, it's.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Alive for her.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
And it might actually you asking me to come on
board and talk about it. I hadn't really thought about
it since we talked, and it's brought it all back
because I kind of buried it, you know, to get
on with the rest of your life exactly exactly. So no,
this you might you might have been the catalyst for
me to get back into it.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
And we'll see.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But that's great that it's still meaningful to you, that
you don't have to keep it on. I'm now going
to focus on what we have focused on successfully, but
the fact that you still find it well, I think
I think today these sorts of projects, if they can
be described, incredibly useful tools because we have so many
concerns and sort of vacant holds and voids in how
(51:25):
we get things done because everybody well mainly everybody's an expert.
Everybody know, we're all clever, yes, and we've all got
social media, and so everybody knows all this stuff. It's
not like we're starting with a kind of naive awareness,
like you know you're able to do back in that day.
So it's hard to get the he's of one, you know,
line line through.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
Well, that's a topic in itself, the social media aspect
of it and getting people back into the community rather
than on their forms. That's that's a discussion for another day,
I think.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
But I mean, actually I think it's amazing community, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
It is.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Then then we still have to live somewhere. We still
want to go outside exactly ourselves. Outside. We want to
translate our worlds that we create in social media, which
is an amazingly exciting thing.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
And to make it, to make it outside of social media,
to have the social media to bring us together, but
then to actually have a destination when we actually implement it.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Have a destination, and everybody knows what that kind of
idea is. A destination you know, we've got Back in
the day, it was our destination was window shopping, it
was always good, you know, go downtown and you go
window shopping. Not that we had much money, but we
could go downtown and be in town. But retail is
not what it was. But still people want to go
outside and have a destination. And I think, what what
(52:42):
does that represent? I mean, I think we're struggling here
in Mahara place to try and get this idea. We've
got cafes, we've got like they serve that purpose. Yes,
like Saltanwood is a destination. So we can't just rely
on the hospitality owners. We still have to have these
public spaces.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
That's a community that has to kind of fill. I
mean the markets are quite nice, the uster market in
the Mahara. I know that brings people here. Yes, I
quite I come to.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
This and we have galleries of course and libraries, but
there's something outside outside which is a communal, democratic space.
And these are sort of like the core thrust of
this idea and in a kind of like a beautiful
little kind of nutshell.
Speaker 4 (53:22):
And so yeah, I mean, I think.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Because you want to have people to be proud of
their community, the proud where they live and have the
attachment and the bond with others yes.
Speaker 4 (53:33):
I don't think I can say anymore than that.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I think that's I think well, I mean that those
words in itself are captulating what this program's trying to
say and what I think of weddying. Capty is really
really sort of it's a good word. It's a good
Thank you very much, Micheline, Micheline Robinson.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 4 (53:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
And and yes it's Micheline Romerson, a wonderful artist and
capity who has a history of community action of quite
a successful level. Thank you, thank you much.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
This program was made with assistance from New Zealand on
Air for radio broadcast aim through the Accessmedia dot m
Z website. Thank you, New Zealand on Air.
Hi, this is roslind Ardley again a local architecture now
and we have very much local, a wonderful Micheline Robinson,
a well known brilliant artist in the Kabti region and
throughout the country.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Him Michelon, Hello, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yes, it's wonderful to have you surprised to find that
you're in a previous lifetime in another nation, you were
doing all of this work that I've been trying to
be accomplished here in Cavity for well twenty eight years
to be exact. So yes, what are we going to
talk about today?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, okay, so first of all you introduced me already
as Michelan Robinson, so I'll just talk a bit more
about that. I'm a French Canadian contemporary artist with the
background in film animation from Concordia Universe in Montreal and
i did fine arts as well in at Ottawau. So
I've been a practicing artist for thirty years. And what
(01:08):
am I going to talk to about today is my
stint in the UK just previous to coming to New Zealand.
So I've been in New Zealand for twelve years, so
previous to that I lived in the town of Hoylake
on the Rural Peninsula. It's between it's the peninsula is
(01:28):
between North Wales and Liverpool, between the River Mersey and
the d and so I moved to that location in
two thousand and five after living in South Wales first
and as well, so we've moved a lot, my husband
and I so like the Kapiti Coast. It's a seaside town.
(01:49):
When we moved there, it was in steady decline since
the nineteen eighties. They had public baths and whatnot which
they had closed. And I think it's similar here, isn't it.
Weren't there public paths and room as well that brought
tourists to the area.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Not necessarily they had a pool thing and that they
had a water slide.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Oh okay, well okay, So it was similar in and
so in steady for the town of Hoylake. Anyway, it
really affected the economy and what not.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
To not have the pools.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
And also in two thousand and eight there was the
economic financial crisis as well, and anyway, our seaside town
looked a bit barren, but we liked being there because
my husband was living I was working in Liverpool, had
had a job offered in Liverpool and it was close
to nature, and so I became involved in the town
(02:42):
regeneration project.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
And that was something that you actually initiated.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
That one I didn't initiate.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
What I did initiate was the real open studio tour,
but I will talk about that.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
If you sure.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Essentially, Hoylake is a bit like you would be living
in the Kebedy Coast and one of someone w'd be
working in Wellington, say correct, exactly, I was working in
Wellington and choosing to live in a gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Geography exactly the same because obviously.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
An artist and awareness and being close to that whatever reason,
smaller population and so close to nature. Yes, so, yes,
it was amazing to find that. You know, you've come
to New Zealand as an accomplished artist, contemporary artist, but
you've also developed your your work and yourself through practical
on the ground kind of community as to understanding of
(03:32):
what's going on around you, and that drew you to
become active.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes, well, what the catalyst for that? Actually?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Because I wasn't always proactive, I think I mean I
was pretty much like a typical artist, you know, kind
of insular inside my own bubble for the longest time,
you know, I wasn't so much community looking towards the
community until what happened in Hoylake. And right after the
(03:59):
two thousand and eight crisis, our library, our town library,
was threatened to close. So the library was community hub
for our town. It was used by many parents as
a pit stop on the way back from collecting children
at school, as it was our case, and it was
used by the homelessly, elderly, and basically everybody everyone because
(04:20):
the population in Hoylake was similar to patap Ramu in
terms of I mean, it was about five thousand people,
you know, so it was quite small really, and so
when they were threatening to close it, it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Was felt by all.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So when they threatened, we all came together in protest,
and that was lovely the energy that came from it.
We all petitioned, protested, the children got involved, we got
on the news, everybody went to the meetings, you know,
and we eventually won won our case. And so the
buzz that followed from that was incredible and it propelled
(04:56):
quite a few of us to become proactive, and I
definitely became active from that. And so suddenly there was
a possibility for change, you know, just just a fact.
It was a small thing, but just the idea that
we had done that. So I thought, well, what else
can I do, you know? And so for me personally,
I thought of there weren't many arts activities on the peninsula,
(05:20):
and I thought of an arts trail because I had
participated one in the UK, which was called Artists in
or Midst And I thought, well, why don't I bring
that here? So I put an ad in the paper
and the next thing you knew, the I think it
was a day after I had tons of people asking
if they could join, and went from there. But what
(05:42):
was happening at the same time was because there was
this energy. There was a man named Mark who had
visions for the town and another named Matt who had
also a background in town planning, and they joined forces
to start Hoylake Vision and their goal was to regenerate
the for a better future. Now I heard about that
as well, and I got involved as well, and that's
(06:04):
where when we met and talked that that was a
project that I was part of as well.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Know how we got on to that subject, but I'm
so glad we did. I was so glad we drew
that out. And I think then, of course you mentioned Liverpool,
and then I mentioned that my colleague has also spoken
on this program was active in Liverpool even though she
was based in San Francisco. That's right, Yes, in having
lived there, I think in the eighties, and she set
up an oral history program in the street that she
was living in back in the eighties. And it was
(06:33):
only like in the last five two or three years
she said I'm going to pull all those oral histories
together and.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Create a book.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So she revisited it in her much later years and
was going back and forth to Liverpool for doing sort
of sessions and setting up like an arts walkway down
to the to the to the harbor and.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Things like that. And that's how we connected.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yes, and then you and then Kay sent you her
book luck Lane Stories or whatever it's called. And yes,
that was an amazing connection as well across countries, like
if you were in Montreal sheaves from San Francisco, Liverpool,
New Zealand. Yes, yeah, so of course this is totally
relevant to what's happening here in Keepity right now. Awareness
(07:15):
of community development is in sort of junction with you know,
in the face of there's going to be a lot
of greenfield development coming through right now, I can see it.
You know, there's just going to be so much going
north of Wayken I, which is still a green area,
but it will inevitably be under threat from from just
obviously general subdivision development. So how do we, then, in
(07:37):
the face of that, still create community with what we've got,
Looking at what we've got, create community and what we've
got so that all of these new housing places have
a community to come to when eventually they develop.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yeah, yep, So well, okay, so you're you're for that.
I would say something similar to what John Gorman. So
at the same time as I was doing the Real
Open Studio tour and HBL was happening in Oxton, which
was another town about twenty minutes from Hoylake, there's a
(08:13):
man called John Gorman.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Now, John Gorman is known.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Probably by many here through He was in a band
called the Scaffold in the sixties seventies, and one of
his songs was Lily the Pink, The Pink, the Pink
and the Band. He was in the band with Mike McCartney,
who's Paul McCartney's brother. Anyway, he's quite famous in England
for having done Tis Was and other things. Anyway, so
(08:37):
he's also a poet and he had a big vision
for a festival of Firse and the festival first basically
was about bringing all the arts together, theater, music, arts,
anything you can think of, and his plans for Hoylake.
(08:57):
He eventually moved to Hoylake because he found out about me. Anyway,
it's a long story which I could get into eventually,
but and for he wanted the longest art art exhibition
in the world by having the paintings aligned from one
side of the promenade that went all along the peninsula
to the other and things like that, you know. And
(09:18):
so what he did was he got.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Everybody involved.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
He asked anybody who had talent, so the whole community
was invited to participate. It wasn't just getting celebrities coming
in and paying for celebrities to come in. He was
actually going top you know, from the bottom up, you know,
trying to get people who were in the community to participate.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
And so he could see it from his point of view,
haven't been a successful artist, he could still understand that
the pulse of that is from people exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I'd like to go back to.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
The HVL because that also got people involved. What we
did for when when we started, we had a meeting.
Basically we held the meeting in front of the community
to call them to see if people wanted to reshape,
would buy into the vision of reshaping the future of
the community. So there are several movements in the UK
(10:15):
in two thousand and nine because of the economic crisis
and whatnot that I don't know if you've had transition
groups here, transition town groups here. The movement it's a
group of people who are making positive change happen locally
in their village, town, city, neighborhoods or sometimes in their school.
It's about spreading viray rather than playing planned and directed
(10:36):
and transition groups can form anywhere in the world. So
the philosophy, basically they ask, is a local economy making
the most of the potential offered by the place where
people live whilst taking care of it for the future.
Is a work that's being done and is being produced
in the area, helping to make the community a happier
and healthier. And how can we support enterprises in activity
(11:00):
through which benefits are shared widely rather than enjoyed only.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
By a few.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
So that's that was the philosophy that was and so
throughout the UK at the time, and people were following
the movement in a lot of towns. They were trying
to bring people to think locally rather than externally to
(11:26):
their communities. So shop locally, if you know, approve, do
produce locally, banking locally, you know, and trying to to
center it locally. And so that's basically what HBL was
all about as well, was to try and to bring
people to think local and to try and get people
(11:46):
excited and to create a bus as well. So it
we went from shops to shops to ask We brought
donation boxes shops to shops to see if people wanted
to participate and donate to creating a better town aesthetically.
So by investing in the town aesthetically and making it
(12:08):
more pleasing, we would perhaps bring more business to come
to the area. And so we yeah, we we brought
donation boxes to all the businesses and people did donate
and so we were able to create Christmas lights for
the town, put up banners so that the town was
(12:32):
more welcoming. A lot of volunteers donated their time. There
was Hoylake in Bloom that donated their time to plant
flowers along the problems and anywhere that's train station. And
we also try to raise money to do the awnings
(12:54):
on top of shops and that.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Actually did work.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
People, you know, companies were more interested in investing because
there's a lot of empty shops in the area. And
then we had big projects as well, so that my
real open studio tour, even though it was separate, it
was kind of supported by hbl you know, and John
Gorman's festival first was also kind of supported.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
You know. We all worked together basically, and so a
lot more people.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
We tried to get everybody as many people involved in
and the energy because there was still the energy from
fighting the libraries. I guess that's part of it. That
that was I think one of the reasons why people
had this energy. So how how would you get people to.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Get more involved?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I think by creating events that involve everyone, by getting
people to participate and not have top down management, you know,
things that are open basically.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I mean the fact that you were able to do
this and we know, have you told me how successful
the arts trailer is and it's still thriving, yes, but
that that the basic principles when you read out of
the transition intentions, and that you actually activated it and
kept it from that from the concern about the library
and the success of the activism around that, but to
(14:27):
keep that energy going based on the essence of community principles.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
It's really good to have it described.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Right, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Yeah. Well, for the way I structure the Arts Trail
was again not top down, it was really I mean,
I definitely because it was my baby, I definitely did
kind of decide how what was I mean, I had
rules and regulations in terms of what I wanted for
the Arts Trail, So you know, you had to be
(14:56):
a professional artist or somebody who was aspiring to be
a professional artist to be on board. But apart from that,
it was people in the community, and I mean everybody
came in as a volunteers. Myself I was a volunteer,
and so I had somebody doing the website, somebody doing marketing,
somebody doing and everybody kind of came together. All the
artists that were on the trail took that role, you know.
(15:18):
So I held meetings and everybody kind of pitched in
and decided you know, told them, told me their strength
and what they thought they could bring to the table.
And so it was a collaborative effort rather than really directing.
It was more you know, how how can you help?
And and and so everybody had it brought meaning to them,
(15:39):
you know, because they were in charge of their own
department and whatnot. They were happy to collaborate without feeling
like they were put upon or you know. It was
a real exercise in trust and it.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Was very good energy.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
And and yes, it is still going on today, and
it's still the same people of managing it. And we
went from nine people the first year when I first
did it, it was only nine people, and this year
they said they had ninety nine. So it's quite yes,
that's quite nice that I'm away, but it's still happening.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And I don't want to break into your flow of thought.
But one of Kay's great things, who we know, he's
an as of advocate and internationals at residencies, she was
that this was open from people from nine to ninety nine.
Oh right, that was so afraid from nine to ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Alright, God, isn't that funny?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Lot happening at the time, and there was zeed in
Project that decided to try an experiment. I don't know
if you've heard about the Big Lunch, and that was
throughout the UK. They were again, I think, because they
were trying to find ways to bring communities together, and
that would be a very good way actually to bring
(16:56):
communities together.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
People.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
They would cause so you get permission to close off
certain sections of streets and all the streets would come
together to have a lunch, and so people would make
meals and bring it to the table, you know, some whatever.
If you had a table at your house, you could
bring it to the street and all the streets were
closed at the same time. But it's all allowed for
(17:20):
a big lunch and it's called the Big Lunch. And
we definitely did that in hoy Lake. And so you
just go from street to street and you get to
know the neighbors and you know, it really was an
opportunity for everyone to get to know each other. And
on our street we had a Mad Hatters party, so
everybody was invited to create their own hats and the
children had kind of did a little parade, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So it was lovely.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It was just and that's definitely a way to bring
because people, especially in new suburbs and whatnot, will be
going to work I don't know where. Maybe they could
be traveling to Wellington, but they won't necessarily know the
people in their community. And it is so important to
know your neighbors because if there's an emergency or whatnot,
it definitely peas to have that kind of interaction and
(18:05):
to know who's beside you and to have that support.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I mean, that's central.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I mean for me, people don't they buy their house
and they put invest in their house and invest in
their property. Yes, but under all of that there's the
idea of being part of the community, of being part
of that place exactly, and how do you actually articulate that? Yes,
and that the long lunch, the long tables all connected
is such a great I mean I wanted to do
(18:31):
it done on Remu Street. I wanted it, but we
never got round to doing it. Yes we would. I
could have just had it. I was thinking we could
just have it on a weekend. You know by Kappa
NUIs School at the gate closed. There's a big long
driveway in there and all the remove people could remedy
street residents could just all link up tables in that
driveway going into the school. We didn't do it, but
it's great to know that it is actually recognized as
(18:53):
a RECOGNI recognized form of community efforts.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yes, yes, so there is that, and there was also
weile Incredible Edible. I don't know if you've I think
that's here as well, Incredible Edible. That was another movement
that happened around the same time as well, and that
was about planting vegetables and fruits in your community. We
did that as well. That was also under the HVL thing,
(19:19):
and so you could pick up lettuces at the local
train station. You know. It was just the whole idea
of it is to have free food for the community.
And so I was quite lovely as well.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yes, all that happened in sort of sprung up in
quite a very.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Very short period of time, very short.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Huge amount of energy, I think, and obviously it showed
how much energy you had to actually have the energy
but also the vision and get across so many different activities.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
But it's contagious and I think when you're working with
other people. So I think we had talked about this previously.
I actually went through a bit of a burnout in
two thousand and five and had recovered, and so when
this happened, it was like I was a phoenix rising
(20:09):
out of the ashes, you know, and it just brought
me right back. And also doing the Arts Trail got
my confidence back as well, you know, knowing, oh I
can do something still, I'm still active. But it happened
in a short period of time, because it was only
from two thousand and for me. The Arts Trail was
two thousand and nine and I moved in at the
end of twenty twelve, so we're talking about a.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Three year period.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
And in that time I wasn't only working with John
Gorman and my Arts Trail and or HVL, but also
I had done local things like I did a gingerbread house.
Not a contest, but I asked everybody in the town
to bring their own gingerbread houses to the town hall,
(20:54):
and my husband and I took the train set out
that the children had and we put like a train
between all the houses and we illuminated. We turned out
the lights and illuminated it. And so it just felt
it was contagious. I mean, you did one thing and
it made you want to do something.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Else, you know. It just it was very good energy.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And also we did for Easter egg hunt. I went
to the school and asked the children to paint eggs
I had done example examples and whatnot, and then we
turned the town into an Easter egg hunt and had
all the children put their Easter eggs throughout the town.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So that was quite nice.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
You know. It's something that again was free. All the
children were doing it themselves. It didn't cost anybody anything.
And that's another thing I'd like to say is most
of these things, apart from like obviously purchasing the banners
and the awnings and whatnot, I mean, a lot of
this was free. You know. It's just just took a
bit of time from people to to do. But most
(21:56):
people contributed their time and efforts and that's what made
it up.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
And it wasn't we weren't.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Waiting for hand outs or funding or whatnot. It was
just people saying I want to change and I'm going
to help.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And yes, So how do you think that really happened?
I mean, I know you've told us how it happened, yes,
But to have that sense of everybody coming to rising
to the occasion or being wanting to be involved, and
all these brilliant ideas that just kept popping up and
getting actually undertaken. Yes, I mean it is a really
(22:30):
good story because it is quite rare. I mean, we
do tend to wait for handouts, or we do tend
to wait for someone who can do it, and often
these things get so watered down by committees and sort
of ideas and sort of politics. That it's a really amazing,
sort of galvanizing, sort of little gem to hang onto. Yes,
and that it's a story that can be repeated. I
(22:52):
think if it's happened, and this is what I wanted
to talk about news last session, Yes, is that these
these stories need to be archived because there's always somebody,
there's always a group of people who want to do this.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I think it's just seeing the positive change. I think
that's what gets people involved. Is I think usually it
does start with a small group of people who are proactive,
and but I think once people see oh, actually this
is this is bringing change to the community, or this
is I can see it, then they will want to
be acted.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Because I could.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Say that initially we didn't get everybody on board. The
first year, it was mainly people behind the scenes making
things happen. When we got the website growing, the first
few meetings we had barely anybody showed up. You know,
it took a while, Okay, I'd say it took about
a year. But once things started to happen and people
started to seeing the benefits and whatnot, then then the
(23:46):
town started to participate and whatnot.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
And do you think that was key to your kind
of approach, the sort of grassroots approach that you were
still doing it even though there was a few of you,
but you had a vision, a committee. You had a vision, yes,
and you keep to that, but you keep going.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I think that's important. The vision is important.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
I think you have to have a very clear idea
of where you would like to go before you start,
and you just don't get defeated by Because we had
a lot of knocks, I mean the empty shops. We
went to see a lot of businesses who had empty
shops and asked them whether they would allow us to
use the premises for pop ups and whatnot. And we
(24:24):
had a lot of nose as well, you know, yes,
a lot of you until until businesses started coming in
and then they saw the benefits I mean for my arts, trail. Initially,
I went to see artists that I really want to
have on board, and they didn't want to join for
the first year because they you know, it affected maybe
their reputation or whatnot. You know, they didn't know what
(24:45):
they were getting into. But once they started seeing, oh,
actually this is quite professional, this is you know, then
they wanted to so that eventually, yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
And the businesses also started to come.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Around, exactly sponsorships as well.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Initially I didn't get the first year, I didn't get
much sponsorship, but then, you know, once they started seeing
the benefits, now it wasn't just the arts trail. The
first year I also did so I did the arts trail,
but the friday before the Arts trail, I had a
preview and I rented the community hall, which was an
(25:21):
old school, and I invited poets to do their thing,
and I invited musicians. So in the different rooms you
had different events happening. And I think that's what made
people think, oh, Okay, actually there's there's potential here. You know,
there's yes, so it's it's yes. You have to have tenacity,
I think initially, but in our case, it didn't take
(25:44):
long at all for people to start really getting excited.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Now, it did help with the festival.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
First that it was John Gorman, because everybody did love him,
so maybe getting somebody on board that has a bit
of a reputation.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
You know that he almost came to you, didn't he absolutely?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I mean he moved to my town because of me.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
That he said that.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
So I was his initial chair for his festival. But
then it just got too much with everything else I
was doing. And I had three young children too, so
I just so I passed it on to Strilling done
to do the rest. But but I did I feel
like I did contribute to, you know, all the key elements.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I introduced him to all the people that he needed wondering.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
So I mean, I think in these provincial towns, say,
and even if they're sort of undercline, I mean, all
of the really talented people who are living there trust
to live there. There's also a sense of under cell
because I'm living in the provinces or you know, there's
only a few of me or so people just tend
to get on with their own work and it's not
going to work because look, the town doesn't look like
(26:46):
Gramaros or what either, Yes, which is the opposite of
what you've proved to be the case.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Right, Yes, and on that I've had artists that thank
me after, and that was I think the biggest gift
of doing this was that there weren't many things on
the World Peninsula when I moved there.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
There was once a.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Year they had d Side the d Side Art group
that had an exhibition hall and did an exhibition. And
one of the artists came to me and he said,
before I joined this. Now he was my website designer,
but also a very good artist. He said, before I joined,
I was quite depressed. And he said, you saved me.
And that was and I had at least two people
(27:29):
say that, and that was lovely that just for that
it was.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Worth it, you know, just just to that.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yes, in community, people underestimate community involvement,
how important it is just for mental health and everything.
I mean, it saved me, Yes, this whole thing saved me.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And if you're doing it through growth, through who you
really are, that's when you said, for you, it flowered.
There were so many things that you saw possible. I mean,
is to and train sets going through gingerbread houses. Who
would have thought that? But it's sort of like an
evolving growth thing and you went with it for some reason.
And so yes, like various artists, you know that we
(28:11):
don't want to live in the big city because we've
got ideas and we need to be somewhere we can
allow those days to flow.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
So we come to places of a less.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Crowded or the or the rents lower, or whatever the trail.
But then you do think, oh, it's very much about
yourself managing in this gorgeous.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Environment, but there's not much happen.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's happening, and then you think, oh, we're a bit
lesser than the hotspots in town. You know you're not,
because you've got your fulfilled by your own thoughts and activities.
But that level of under cell group under cell, when
it doesn't have to be that way. And this is
why I think these stories are so important and that
we don't have to rely on like what you were saying,
(28:53):
it's quite clearly is how that idea of you're being
not delegating, but being so able to be seeing the
potential of others that they all sort of rose to
their own skills in that team off they did, and
they all had a chance to do I mean they're
all highly skilled and creative. Anyway to be able to
to be able to give the opportunity to to shine
(29:16):
is growth, yes, yeah, And if you're growing yourself, you
often do see opportunities all round the place that could
be could benefit from change, don't you Which is what happened.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Well, it gives you self confidence. It's a self confidence.
So if you, yes, if you shine, then you started
building self confidence. And then with a self confidence then
you can then initiate yourself So it becomes.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
A cicular sort of it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yea, it becomes an empowerment thing.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So with the empty shops, was that a bit daunting?
I mean to think about how you could actually men
approach that?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Absolutely it was.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
And so but luckily we had a few that had okayed,
you know, that that had given the or can. Because
of that, we were able to prove that we could
do it and that it was quite beautiful. You know.
We had an right exhibition in one and we actually
managed to get a business to come in who was,
you know, working from home and they worked from the
(30:08):
location that looked quite nice.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
And so you're looking all sorts of opportunities like pop
ups in these in these empty shops for them because
it was back in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Ers.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yes, Now a term pop up was wasn't even really
on anybody's radar really back then.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Sort of in the UK.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
It was because I was quite familiar with it then
you were then. But yes, so it must have been
in the terminology maybe in London or I don't know,
but it definitely.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Was coming there.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, because I mentioned this, I mentioned the term pop
up back in two thousand and.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Nineteen maybe, and when somebody said, what's a pop up?
Speaker 1 (30:46):
And I was just talking about we can do this
pop up community thing.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
What's a pop up?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You know?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And so you have to sort of like, how do
you explain it? Right? Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, And I
just thought of almost want to go back to this
that you were reading about transition. I mean, those are
the principles that I'm always glad to hear it again.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
I'll go further just so I don't repeat myself, but
the questions that I said, basically, is a local economy
making the most of the potential offered by the place
where we live whilst taking care of it for the
future is a work that's being done. And what is
being produced in our area, helping to make our community
happier and healthier. How can we support enterprises and economic
activity through which benefits are shared widely rather than enjoyed
(31:27):
only by a few, And these questions often prompt action.
Economy is a broad term we used to cover the
range of activities that transition groups undertake with a view
to transforming their local economy.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
The economy is, yes, brilliant.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yes, so increasingly transition groups are about starting new enterprises,
especially community owned energy companies and food businesses. Others are
developing local currency projects, setting up by local campaigns, or
working with local businesses in some way. Yes, And that
was a bit the case.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
So that there's a tool, it's a communication tool or
activation tool that is that is very useful because I
mean I try to enunciate that time and time again
yes to council, and it's like, how do I say this, yes,
you know, and how do they see economy as something
that comes from the activation of the local people or
even people coming in can see they see the benefit
(32:23):
of all of that. It's economic and it's arts, and
it's ordinary activities that create more economic activity.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yes, yeah, And I'm just thinking of the Capiti course. Now,
I mean there are quite a few things that are happening,
and you know the caboche and also I have a
friend who the crop share that that happens every month,
I think, and that brings community together. I think, you know,
people grow their own crops and then share it with others.
(32:50):
Have you heard of that.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
In the suburban gardens?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yes, and you can bring anything now.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
My friend Kay, and there's others which I don't know
that I forget their names, started that here on the
Capital Coast and I find that quite invigorating. I mean,
I have been to a few and you can only
you can have as little as one lemon that you
want to share, and you can share it with somebody
else who has equivalent and that's good enough. And that's
(33:16):
another way to get the community together, because especially now
with the downturn of the economy and we're talking of
recession and there's a lot of unemployment, this would be
a good way to help people save money and then
be able to get ideas exactly get ideas, but also
then it's sense it brings bonding, but also then you've
(33:37):
got money left over for to put into the economy
for other things.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
You know, it's just you know, so that's an that's
an idea.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Absolutely yeah, And I was just thinking of Mari Land.
I mean, they've got a wonderful to use a cliche
business model now, but they grew out of a vision
of wanting to harness or takes lifeblood of talent and
Mauri tongue, and then they formed it around the idea
(34:05):
of a film film film world. Yes, and that's it's
worked well for taking and for the people who are
actually the artist within it well exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
And that's exactly the kind of project that works, I
mean because then they're proud, you know that there's a
and I love that festival.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I've been quite a few times and it.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Has a great energy and I've seen Canadian films. They're indigenous,
indigenous Canadian Canadian.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Films there as well. And no, that's that's a lovely project.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yes, yeah, And I think right now everyone's talking about
the doom and gloom and the decline of Wellington, so
just repeating these stories as we're doing today, it's just
saying this is, this is this is okay.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
This is what we do.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
You know, this is what we do is people living
in small towns or bigger towns or and and and
this is what keeps the economy from reviving and revitalizing
encycles exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
I mean when I was talking.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
To Michael Bloss the last month about his beautiful book
that he published about the shaping of NUSA, I'm just
looking at your document I don't know who.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Produced this, but that was Mark.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
That was.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Just gorgeous documentation which isn't over the top or over designed,
but it's just comes through with gorgeous colors, really meaningful
little photos, just laid out beautifully that idea of commitment
to communication, which is just a product of the underlying
idea of where community we really want to make this happen.
(35:34):
But it comes through in the presentation, which is not
overly designed, but it's just it.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Shows a professional product, and it shows commitment.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
It shows commitment and just the way it's just so lovely,
so people can hold this in their hand and that
this represents me. This is about me. I get this,
This is part of me. This is for me, And
I think that's also emblematic of a group of people
who've got something to say and I want to get
it out there.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Yeah. Yeah, and so.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
You know, we all know how incredibly prolific you are
with your work here now in New Zealand. So I
guess all of that sort of flourishing and action and
work and across various medium in a place like over
in a region out of Liverpool, you're now can companies
and just just take off and do your own thing again.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
But I do miss the community aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
I do want, yes, I mean, I must say the
reason I became so prolific when I moved to New
Zealand was although this was lovely, you know, because I
was one of the instigators and I carried a lot
of the weight, it was a kind of a release
of all the responsibility because I had so many artists.
(36:48):
By when I left, there was about fifty artists on board.
And I mean even if I had volunteers, a lot
of the questions came to me, you know, and what not,
So that was more of a release.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Like ah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
It's surprising to us have seen that coming to Michelin
in your studio and you're working on your own and
you're obviously setting up all your own exhibitions around the
place and managing all of that and.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Seeing so much work.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Who would have known behind this there was this really
hard working but across so many spheres, keeping all that
all of that going is so interesting and it's offering.
You know, it's now retrospectively bringing something back in a
story form. And I think it's the future, you know,
I think I think the future is community and responding
(37:35):
to community in the environment. And I mean this program
is about architecture, but we we as architects, we built
architectural designers. We put buildings into the environment, but ultimately
that building impacts the community, impacts the environment, and when
someone lives there, they want to know that they're part
(37:55):
of a meaningful community.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yes, well there was another part actually talking about the environment.
That was another thing that we had issues with. The
beach was sprayed every year with life Life usits I
think it's called and round up the I don't you
know the And that was because they wanted to make
sure that the grasses wouldn't come back up, because they
(38:18):
wanted to try and bring the turists in, and also
to let people walk around. If you looked at the
River Dee, they let the grasses grow and then you
couldn't really walk on the beaches. There because it was
all taken over by the grasses. So it was in
theory the councils wanted to keep a bit.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Of a beach and that's why they did it.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
But then, yeah, there was concern for for health and whatnot,
so we looked at that and now the grasses are
are growing a bit, but it's it's more there's still
some chemicals being released in some areas, but at least
they're letting some of the grasses come back.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Would you call them night of June grasses?
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yes, exactly, so their native dren grass, yes, which should
be there. It should be which a native to watch,
a natural to that, Yes, and they were they were spraying.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yes for the beach.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Yes, I mean that's and so you actually had even
though doing all these other things, you could see that was.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Something that needed tontinue to.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Was just part of well, the town was the of yes, yes,
my god, yes, I mean what.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
About how does that?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
I mean apparently round up as faith, you know, that's
how weeds get doctor all over the farmlands and New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
But how does that idea of going into.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
The water and well, and like the little creatures that
live in the sands and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Yeah, because you have to think of biold diversity as well,
don't you. I mean, when you're thinking of these projects
and whatnot, you're also looking at the wider picture and
where the environment we're living in as well.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
It's not just looking.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
At the the economy, but also looking at biodiversity and
and and yeah, I had questions about that actually because
I I don't want to bring this sombread, but I
lost quite a few friends to cancer when I lived
in Hoylake and it's still not knowing why there are
so many, it was such a high level of cancer.
But I wonder if that was maybe part of it,
(40:09):
you know, just but this is on.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Air, and I don't know.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so but interesting.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I mean I guess that they have their reasons for this.
I mean, there was obviously obviously particular kind of keategogical
reasons why the spray was fine.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
It was necessary well because there was sand yachting, and
there was economic reasons to keep it a beach.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Okay, I think that's part of it as well.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
And also people did enjoy walking on the you know,
it did bring some tourism, so that's why it was
a bit of a debate because by spraying you had
a beach which brought tourists and then people could enjoy.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
But council regional, No, no, it's a local.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
It was, yes, similar to k c DC. We heard
the Royal Council.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Because actually it's probably about the time when dunes and
wetlands was starting to be real praised. I mean back
in two thousand and nine, two thousand and five or
even like Queensworth Park. We had a big save Queensworth
Park I think it was twenty and fourteen, even at
two thousand and four maybe, and people started to reappraise
(41:16):
dune lands and grasses. And now it's a very strong
kind of awareness, isn't it And people love.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Oh I love it. I'm there almost.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
I'm at Queen Elizabeth Park almost every day walking the
different trails. It's a fantastic park.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yes, we didn't seem to appreciate like there was a bush.
We do it become much more aware of the bush remnants.
But the dunes were like the last the last you
know of neglect and now so you were that was
there in the mix as well, yes, yeah, gosh so
so yeah, grant, they weren't just green grass from the
(41:51):
paddock they worked for june grasses.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Yes, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
And so I have two daughters who went back to
the UK and said, Mum, you wouldn't recognize it. It's
completely differ now and you see the grasses everywhere and hour. Yeah,
I know it's still a source of debate in the town.
I'm not there anymore, but yes, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
But yeah, yeah, that's fantastic to go back to these places.
And then, of course, like you say, you came to
your sin and you.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Were free you could do your work.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
So I mean, this work now is so contemporary and
useful right now. You did it what twenty years ago
or something. And these sorts of ideas often are sort
of ahead of their time in a way, because I mean,
you're coming out of your own personal growth phase or
addressing a personal growth moment or I don't know how
to describe it without cliches. But I think all of
(42:41):
those voices who aren't necessarily around the table of power
are the ones that are seeing where they're living and
seeing what they love, and they're here because it's healing
or they need to move somewhere quieter, and they have
all this knowledge and awareness, and to be in a
situation where so much so many of those people can
actually come together and do work that meets the sort
(43:03):
of they're sort of an there are the sense of
what they see the place about. And that's, you know,
what I call urban design advocacy. It's not just urban
development and building stuff and figuring out where the parks go.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Yes, but I think key to that, just to go back,
how do people implement this kind of change? I think
you not only do you have to have the vision,
but also I think you have to have commitment to
time and making it happen. I mean, we were meeting
once every two weeks and giving each other tasks so
and making sure we're all on task, you know, And
(43:38):
so I think the key to make it happen is
to really have that kind of commitment. And and the
HVL became a CIC and I don't know if you
have that here, but it's a community interest company, okay,
And that allowed if we were to get funding or
what not. And are you familiar with community interests conecting through?
(44:00):
So it's about companies that are interested in social change
and environmental change. So yeah, So that's that's another thing.
It's just too.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I mean, a small place out of Liverpool's got a
lot to teach us. We didn't know these were things
that we could do, right, I don't know what we
must have all sorts of. We've got very much. I
know we've got very much.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Now.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Companies with mari staff or ownership have a sort of
a Maori interest company kind of thing going. Yes, but yeah,
a community interest company. Yes, I think they sort of
passed back into oblivion that kind of brilliant concept.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
No, I think.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I know. It's a Newish I mean it was a
Newish company concept when I was there. I think it
started in two thousand and five in the UK, and
I'm not sure why they brought it, And maybe because
they wanted to give power back to community to do
their own thing.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
And yeah, great, and go to hear stories from England,
because we don't just think of England as a great
big play, right, different cultures are all rubbing shoulders with
each other. How can anything organized ever come out of it? Yes,
but at a small village scale, of course it does.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah. Well, the world's quite interesting as well. I mean
we just to give you a bit of the history.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
I mean at one time, it's quite flourishing and unfortunately
we're talking about colonial times and whatnot.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
You know, we're flourishing as an as Liverpool.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Liverpool was flourishing.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
I mean you read People of the Lane by Keith
if they talk a bit a bit about that. Unfortunately Liverpool,
Liverpool was furnishing, unfortunately because of you know feel well,
not only that, but also the slave trade. It was
one of the Triangle, so a lot of money came
onto the world because of that, and then there was
(45:46):
a steel the shipbuilding and whatnot after that that followed,
and then a lot of people made money from that
as well, from the shipbuilding and whatnot, because it was
one of the major ports was was Liverpool. But then
in the I guess it would been probably in the
seventies when the shipbuildings the eighties, I'd have to recheck
the dates exactly. Suddenly, because the shipbuilding trade left the
(46:10):
Liverpool region, then suddenly people were made redundant and Birkenhead,
which is on the world on the east side of
the world, became extremely poor and it is now still
one of the UK's poorest cities. And so on one
(46:31):
side of the world you have one of the most
affluent places. You have a lot of money still on
the west side of it. But so it's kind of
a place of like a dichotomy between both worlds basically.
And I think that's part.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Of it as well, is.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
There is a need for social I think people are
aware of it more there because there is such a
distance between the wealth and haves and the have nots.
And and perhaps that's another reason why it was allowed
to thinks we're able to bloom as well, because people
want to change and to help local communities, but because.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
It was an evident tension from historic from thental now
exactly so, was there any mining involved in the area.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Not in the area not here.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
It was more of the result of mining and steel
and in other areas that created the ship building and
the steel industry back and the industry revolution and Liverpool sprang up,
and so all of these smaller little areas would have
been pretty fast, fast growing back in the day. But
then there's no industry now correct to sort of meet
the need.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, and that's when art steps and always yes, I
mean in sort of like all over cities all over
the world, the sort of dying parts of New York
and whatever. We're artists sort of moving in the fifties
and then.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
H and there's a danger of gentrification as well, which
didn't happen luckily. I mean, you know, there was always
a consciousness not to make it gentrified, okay, and I
mean of the projects we had, things like the Beacon project,
So that started initially before even the name Beacon.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
We wanted to bring a cinema to the town.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
That was another way to.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Bring the community together. And so the first time we
did it.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
We had it in the local community center. We brought
chairs and we all watched around Christmas time, we watch
It's a Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Life and uh.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
And then that became a big project where we wanted
to have a building with you know, a local, proper
local cinema and then artist studios and whatnot. But it
was always there was always a thought towards making sure
that things didn't get to.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
Gentrified posture. Ger So you had it right back then.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yes, right, well then that's really important, yes, And so
did you gentrifications sort of creeping.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
Well unfortunately, Yeah, the spirit that was Thereah, hasn't you know,
quite maintained that there's been Yeah, it's because the economy
has just slowly eroded a bit more so it's a
story to watch. It's still it's yeah, it's still in process.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
It's wonderful a.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Story to watch, Yes, because as I keep talking about
the Looser Project, I mean, it was amazing. They had
the idea of grassroots and they never wanted to become
sort of an elite, gorgeous town. But you know, they're
struggling under the weight of their own success. But they
don't want it to become just an exclusive haven.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
For exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
But it's hard, you know, as things get more successful
or the sort of mission, the sort of message in
the mission that's right there at the start gets lost
later down the trade implementation of others.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
And if things so successful, then obviously companies want to invest.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
And then that's when it happens.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
I mean, that's when you know you've got investors coming
from elsewhere who want to bring their own that have
their own motivations for for a location and whatnot. But yes,
there's definitely a social awareness before we started and of inclusivity.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yes, yes, yes, do you think you would ever formulate
this was a story and just sort of have it
met there.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
Well, I've been thinking about it. My daughter's been, my
youngest has been really pushing me to do that. Okay,
I think watch that space for her because I think
she's she's planning on her big projects as well. But
I know it's inspired her to do because she remembers
it as a child being involved in all this since
she quite.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Enjoyed it, so alive for her.
Speaker 4 (50:40):
Still, yes, it's.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Alive for her.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
And it might actually you asking me to come on
board and talk about it. I hadn't really thought about
it since we talked, and it's brought it all back
because I kind of buried it, you know, to get
on with the rest of your life exactly exactly. So no,
this you might you might have been the catalyst for
me to get back into it.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
And we'll see.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But that's great that it's still meaningful to you, that
you don't have to keep it on. I'm now going
to focus on what we have focused on successfully, but
the fact that you still find it well, I think
I think today these sorts of projects, if they can
be described, incredibly useful tools because we have so many
concerns and sort of vacant holds and voids in how
(51:25):
we get things done because everybody well mainly everybody's an expert.
Everybody know, we're all clever, yes, and we've all got
social media, and so everybody knows all this stuff. It's
not like we're starting with a kind of naive awareness,
like you know you're able to do back in that day.
So it's hard to get the he's of one, you know,
line line through.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
Well, that's a topic in itself, the social media aspect
of it and getting people back into the community rather
than on their forms. That's that's a discussion for another day,
I think.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
But I mean, actually I think it's amazing community, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
It is.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Then then we still have to live somewhere. We still
want to go outside exactly ourselves. Outside. We want to
translate our worlds that we create in social media, which
is an amazingly exciting thing.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
And to make it, to make it outside of social media,
to have the social media to bring us together, but
then to actually have a destination when we actually implement it.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Have a destination, and everybody knows what that kind of
idea is. A destination you know, we've got Back in
the day, it was our destination was window shopping, it
was always good, you know, go downtown and you go
window shopping. Not that we had much money, but we
could go downtown and be in town. But retail is
not what it was. But still people want to go
outside and have a destination. And I think, what what
(52:42):
does that represent? I mean, I think we're struggling here
in Mahara place to try and get this idea. We've
got cafes, we've got like they serve that purpose. Yes,
like Saltanwood is a destination. So we can't just rely
on the hospitality owners. We still have to have these
public spaces.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
That's a community that has to kind of fill. I
mean the markets are quite nice, the uster market in
the Mahara. I know that brings people here. Yes, I
quite I come to.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
This and we have galleries of course and libraries, but
there's something outside outside which is a communal, democratic space.
And these are sort of like the core thrust of
this idea and in a kind of like a beautiful
little kind of nutshell.
Speaker 4 (53:22):
And so yeah, I mean, I think.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Because you want to have people to be proud of
their community, the proud where they live and have the
attachment and the bond with others yes.
Speaker 4 (53:33):
I don't think I can say anymore than that.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I think that's I think well, I mean that those
words in itself are captulating what this program's trying to
say and what I think of weddying. Capty is really
really sort of it's a good word. It's a good
Thank you very much, Micheline, Micheline Robinson.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 4 (53:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
And and yes it's Micheline Romerson, a wonderful artist and
capity who has a history of community action of quite
a successful level. Thank you, thank you much.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
This program was made with assistance from New Zealand on
Air for radio broadcast aim through the Accessmedia dot m
Z website. Thank you, New Zealand on Air.
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