The Fourth Mind With Whitley Strieber

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'll tell you they got a lot of work they

(00:01):
need to do on this.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Men, I've been sitting here watching you.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Well have you been watching me sweat bullets?

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Yeah? I didn't know what you were doing.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
I was panicking. But anyway, your new book has come out,
The Fourth Mind. How long did it take you to
write it? And why did you write this one?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, it took me about on lifetime, but I actually
sat down and write it, wrote it over about a
two year period. And I did it because I am
trying to cushion the process of the shock of the

(00:48):
new that is involved in the close encounter phenomenon and
meeting with the visitors. Right now, my books are read
by a significant audience, It's true, but not you know,
they will be available for people who know nothing about this,

(01:10):
who have never heard of it, when and if the
visitors show up and from communion transformation breakthrough new world
them and now. The Fourth Mind is a journey as
deep into the close encounter experience as anyone as yet gone,

(01:34):
I think, including people on the inside. So that's that's
why I wrote it, so that it will be there
when it's needed, even if I'm not here. Because I'm
I might not be here when that happens, if it does,
But if it does, and when it does, the books
will be valuable. And they're valuable now to people who
are having the experience and people who are curious about it,

(01:56):
for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
But you know there's a lot of people, you know,
I get a lot of bils from people and letters.
You know, they are scared to talk about their encounters,
you know, of what has been going on being contacted
by ed E. T. There's a lot more people out
there being contacted than we even realize that, wily.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Oh god, yes, we get I get letters every single
day from people who have no place to turn, and
they they don't dare even go on the experiencer groups
because they're afraid that someone will recognize them. And some
of these people are in very sensitive positions in the world.

(02:39):
And you know, doctors and scientists and academics especially are
very scared to talk about their experiences in any even
semi public forum. So guess who they end up talking
to me.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
But you too have something that a lot of people
don't have. You've been implanted too. I have an implant,
that's correct, you know the thing about you know, the ets,
the visitors the intelligent level. Do you think they're still evolving.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
It's a good question, they seem to me. Well, first
you have to yeah, it's really hard to understand the
way they are there. I For example, they don't speak,
they don't have a voice, they don't have the capacity
to speak with voice. They use telepathy, and that means

(03:39):
that their minds are all connected, they're all comments, and
it makes them very different from us, sort of fundamentally different.
They're also their eyes are such that they don't see color,
and they don't need to see color. They have other
needs for their eyes, and the result of that is

(03:59):
that they don't really experience the world very much the
way we do at all. So you know, they can't speak,
they're telepathic, they don't experience life the way we do.
And you know, you look around you on this planet
then and you think of an elephant or a dolphin,
or any kind of a creature that's not human, a dog,

(04:20):
a cat, your beloved dog or cat. There's a huge
gulf between us, simply because we have different brains and
different perceptual systems. Who knows what a dog thinks because
a dog lives through his nose, primarily.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
And you know, a lot of people, a lot of
vets and scientists say that dogs and cats and animals
live for the moment. I disagree with that. You know,
it amazes me. We have a German shepherd here that, actually,
since I had my two heart attacks, has actually became
my mother. And I tell you they can think a

(05:00):
lot more intelligently than we give animals credit for.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
I think so too. I think that they are and
not only that, telepathy is very much a commonplace among animals,
and not all animals will react to us. But I think,
for example, when you see a pack of coyotes working together,
or a flight of starlings, a flock of starlings flying together,

(05:29):
there's a link there that we don't understand and that
we don't we're not aware of. When you hear the
voices of coyotes, they just sound like they're yapping. But
that's a complex language you're listening to. It's just entirely
different from ours.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well, you know, I've had so go ahead. I'm sorry, ahead,
I was saying, I've had Captain Paul Watson on. I
don't know if you know who he is. He was
one of the founders of green peas, and you know
he's been trying to save the whales and all this
type of stuff from slaughter. But you know a lot
of people don't even realize whales can communicate thousands of miles.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, elephants can too. They they communicate using the vibrations
in the urine. H and whales communicate using sound, and
they may communicate in other ways as well. It doesn't
necessarily mean they're they're not. Perhaps they're not confined to
vocal communication or sound communication. The visitors certainly aren't. And

(06:34):
they can't communicate ah ah with speech. They can't do it.
At least the little great people can't do it. They
don't have vocal forts.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Now you know the ets, the grays. Do you feel
that they have feelings like we do, hate love emotions.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, that's certainly impression. But you know, you're going to
understand people have very confused ideas about them because they
come in more than one form, and different forms have
different relationships to reality. Like the little ones. They are
about three feet tall and they are expendable. They are

(07:23):
very sophisticated biological robots, and they are if you're with them.
They don't necessarily express emotions. But the taller ones that
are about five feet tall have very rich emotional lives.

(07:46):
I've had the experience of knowing them now for many,
many years, and they have all kinds of emotions, including
getting pissed off at me, which is something that happen
one's fairly often.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Well are you still getting data? Last time I talked
to you, you were getting data that you were trying
to decipher.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Uh. Well, yeah, I get I got used to using
the implant and also to the they they they they
will showed me these hieroglyphics. Now I hardly ever see them.
I don't. I wish I could say that, well we
sit down and chat and stuff, but it's not the case.

(08:33):
I very rarely see them physically.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
But but I've learned that it's not about necessarily about
uh huh data. In other words, the hieroglyphics, I don't
need to understand them consciously like I would understand words.

(08:56):
I will. I will react to the information that they
have in them without necessarily being able to translate it
in my mind into our languages. And it's the same
with the telepathy. It's not you know, we think of
telepathy sort of science fictionally, and it's you know, someone

(09:19):
talking in your head, and that is part of it, uh,
but it's not all of it by any means. It's
much more subtle, and I've learned how to. I wouldn't
ever call it data anymore. Let me put that one never.
It's more a communion of thought that that, and I

(09:45):
use it in my writing constantly. I wouldn't. I couldn't
write these books with that.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Very interesting. Now, the visitors, you know a lot of
people fear this, the thought of being visited buy them.
But do the visitors actually fear humanity?

Speaker 2 (10:06):
They don't want to get hurt. And that's why when
you if you get a group of close encounter witnesses together,
they're all very mild mannered people, and you think to yourself,
I wonder why that is, and then you think, no,
I actually understand that, because they're you know, they're very
mild mannered, and they they are excuse me, no, and

(10:35):
that's because they want if they're going to get close
to people, they want those people to be not to
fly off the handle, as I indeed did the first
time I was with them in my adult life in
nineteen eighty five. I certainly did fly off the hand,
I mean, and I don't I excuse myself completely because

(10:56):
I woke up in a room full of giant insects,
and after a while it became obvious that they were real.
And so yes, I did get quite concerned, to say
the least.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Well, I think anybody did too. But also, at your
house you had out in the wooded area, didn't you
kind of get lured out of your house and you
saw a friend that passed away long before that, and
well that.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Was yeah, that was the That leads into an interesting
thing about the living, the dead and the visitors and
what this all is really about, because it's not aliens
from another planet coming to trade cell phones for telepathy
phones or something at all. The that night, one of

(11:48):
the oddest things that happened was I saw sitting in
the woods where these little beings were a man I
had known in college and high school. Fact, we even
went to grade school together for a few years, so
I knew him pretty well. And he had joined the
Central Intelligence Agency. And you know, when you do that,

(12:10):
you don't you kind of leave your old friends behind,
which he had, and I hadn't seen him in years,
but he was sitting there. And not only was he
sitting there, he told me all kinds of detailed things
about the problems with the exhaust manifolds of stealth aircraft,
which were very secret. Then I knew nothing whatsoever about them,

(12:32):
and I didn't even know what I'm exhaust manifold manifold,
I'm talking to a wall. So after the experience became,
it began, because it was so traumatic that the day
after I was just feeling miserable and heard all over

(12:52):
it was. And I felt absolutely terrified when the sun
went down that night, just terrified, and I stayed terrified,
and I began to go crazy. I had no idea
what had happened to me. It never crossed my mind
that it was alien contact at all. But so it

(13:15):
became started to become clear over the next week or so,
the jumbled memories, and what stood out in them is
the guy. I recognized them very clearly. He'd been there,
And I thought christ I had written a book called
War Day, which had annoyed the Reagan administration a lot.

(13:39):
And I thought, because they played dirty tricks on me,
they failed me. Full of some kind of drugs or something.
What the hell is that about? Because I remembered him
as that he'd gone into the CIA, and I had
an old phone number for him, and I called him
and was disconnected, which in surprise, I mean, because I

(14:01):
hadn't talked him in years. So I called his brother.
I had a phone number for him too, and he
was still very much there. And he said, well, he
died last March.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
And this was in December, and I just about dropped
my teeth. Died last March. But that was only the
beginning of the relations. One day, a couple of years later,
when we were getting all these letters, which are now
archived by the way at Rise University in Texas, at

(14:35):
the Archives of the Impossible getting all of these letters,
and came out of her office and she says, with
this has something to do with what we call death.
And the reason she said that was that people quite
commonly would see or experience their dead friends and relatives

(14:56):
or the dead along with the visitors. And that would
happened at the cabin when someone would have a see
a ghost that someone they knew, and would always say
the visitors a year later, and they always were. There
were remarkable experiences at that cabin. I wish I hadn't
lost it, but I did, and it was it was just,

(15:24):
you know, they'd come up to the cabin when we
had groups there. They come up to the cabin when
we didn't have groups there too for that man.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
But now were they were they coming in human form?

Speaker 2 (15:35):
No, not at all. They were coming in visitor for him,
and they were with great, big black eyes and little
spidley arms and legs. But if they touched you, the
electricity would go through your body. It felt wonderful, but
also meant you were not going to move until they

(15:56):
take their hand away. So they were pretty much in
control of the situation with people in the cabin, and
they had appear in houses up and down the ridge too.
It wasn't just the cabin, because there's a I think
they came out from underground. I don't think those were
from above ground, although I'm pretty sure I was above

(16:19):
ground when I was abducted. But the ones that were
coming up to the cabin were coming up from underground.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
That is very interesting too, because you again, if you
really think about it, you know, I'm sure that we
have you know, even in the oceans there there is
underwater basis with ets. You know that they have, and
under the ground we're finding things out more and more.
And you know, another thing, I was this reading an

(16:48):
article science article from Russia. They've been experimenting for over
ten years that when when we die, we really don't die.
Our thoughts, our consciousness is kind of like uploaded somewhere,
and that they've been doing research where they've been putting
colds in it, and they've been gathering some of this
information back. So maybe that's how they also can contact

(17:12):
like your friend who died a year before.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, well, we're definitely my wife. When she passed away
in twenty fifteen, it wasn't but a few hours before
she reemerged in the lives of my friends of ours,
and she was definitely still there. I wrote a book
with her after she died, called The Afterlife Revolution, and

(17:41):
the famous afterlife investigator doctor Carrie Schwartz wrote a forward
to it, saying you thought it was the most convincing
book about after life survival that he'd ever read.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Well, you know, I died twice in December, back to back,
like twenty minutes apart, and they managed to revive me
both times. Otherwise I wouldn't be talking to you. But
you know, it really changed my whole views of death.
There is something because I was still digesting stuff while
I was dead, and you know, and that made me

(18:17):
realize there is more to life than we even realize.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Well, you've joined the modern shaman. Why well, shaman as
a person was they had to taste they had to
taste death in order to to become a shaman who
had to enter the world of the dead and return alive.
And in the old days, the initiation were really dangerous

(18:45):
and some people didn't didn't make it. They did die
during these initiations. So but modern science has changed all that.
There's all kinds of people who have near death experiences
like you did come back and did in two thousand
and four. She came back and she wasn't scared of

(19:05):
death at all. After that, I know she was, of
course not, and I'm not either, but not because I've
had an NDE. I haven't, But I've just been around
and lived with someone who's often present in my life
to this day, and you know, to the point where
she will touch me and there's a lot of contact

(19:26):
and some of it's physical. So yeah, I'm not scared
of death either.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Now Whitley. We need to take about a three minute
break and we'll come back. We're going to talk about
your book and ets, and you know again about your implant.
What do you think it's all there for? So we'll
be back with Whitley right after this year listening to
nineaen stock rare. A little bit of break here.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
And we'll be right back with Whitley.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
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Speaker 5 (20:07):
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Speaker 2 (20:13):
Sound must you didn't even know your name?

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Speaker 1 (23:35):
A and we are back with Whitley. You know Whitley
a lot of this stuff. But you know people you know,
claiming they're implanted this or that. I heard a lot
of it. But your implant, you know, goes active quite often,
doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Well, First of all, it's well documented. The attempt to
take it out is video on video, and you can
easily see the doctor and my wife and the nurse
observing the object and observing it moved from here in
the top of my ear where it lives now down

(24:14):
into my ear lobe in order to avoid being being
taken out. And you can there's also a CT scan
of it which is very clear. It's real, it's there,
and it is anomalous. And that's on the record because

(24:34):
people observed it doing what it did to to avoid
the scalpel. So it's there and real. It came into
my ear in May of nineteen eighty nine. And incidentally,
I always mentioned now someone pointed out that in one

(24:56):
of my books it says it was ninety two. It wasn't.
It was made of eighty nine. That's a typographical era
that was overlooked in the copy editing of the book
so that aside. What happened was this. I was lying
in bed, it was about eleven o'clock at night, and
was in bed beside me asleep, and I heard the

(25:17):
crunching of gravel in the driveway but no car lights.
It was a May night in the country, beautiful evening,
but the crunching of gravel in a driveway with no
car lights was a bad omen And plus we had
a big gate, so that was very worrisome. And my

(25:39):
initial reaction was to go for the floodlights that surrounded
the house, and you could turn them onto the switch
by the bed and we As I moved, I saw
two people in the room, a woman and then behind
him standing behind him, a man, and they rushed toward me,

(26:07):
and I started to go for the gun, under the
shotgun and under the bed, and the next thing I knew,
I was lying on my right side. I couldn't move,
I couldn't see, and my head was being pushed down
into the pillow. The next day I became aware of

(26:27):
the fact that there was a sore place in my ear.
There was no incision. It had gone in through the
skin somehow, and I wanted it taken out and A said, really, yeah,
I said, it feels like it's a tracking device. I
don't want to be tracked. She said, well, no one's

(26:49):
going to track you because you're not interesting enough to track.
What do you? Where do you go down and get
the paper? You go to a movie every once in
a while. No one cares if that's a tracking device.
They're going to turn it off in a week. And
I thought to myself, yeah, she's probably right. I'm no
superspy or anything, you know, definitely just a very ordinary person.

(27:09):
And so it stayed in until I guess it was
ninety six, and she had made me promise to leave
it in until we figured out what it was for.
But in ninety six I met this doctor and dinner
We're having dinner with some friends, and he said, I'll
pop it out for you. I said, he touched it.

(27:30):
I said, I have this blump on my ear and
he touched it and said, oh, it's a little siss.
Come over to the office tomorrow. I'll pop it out
for you. And was pretty pissed off, but she'd let
me do it. She said, you promised me this, and
you'll never do this again. She probably already knew she
knew a lot about her Roger Lear's stuff, and that

(27:51):
they would they tended to run away from any attempt
to take him out because that happened in Roger's experience
all the time, right, So that happened, and I, you know,
it came back and I'm glad it's there now because
I use it in my research. It's a very very
valuable tool. I couldn't I could not write the books
that I write now without it.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Does it give you any psychic abilities?

Speaker 2 (28:17):
No, not not not not overt psychic abilities. What it
does is as I've it's been explained to me, and
it draws up memories from inside my mind that I
have forgotten that are relevant to what I'm working on

(28:37):
and thinking about. And it really enhances the experience of
you know, it makes my mind much bigger because it's
like it's like I have a super memory when I'm
using the implant, when the implant is turned on. And
so it's very very valuable in that in that regard.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Can you turn it on or off? Or does it
come on and off? But without your ability to do
it control.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
It when I'm working it turns itself on when I'm
in interviews, for example, it's all now. For example, yeah's
working right now?

Speaker 1 (29:13):
After all these years with your implant and them being
in touch with you and communicating with you. Do you
think that they are trying to give us confusion or
maybe have a different type of intention that are misleading you.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
No, they're not misleading me at all. You know, I'm
going through quite an arc with them, from starting out
with in childhood, I loved them. They would come into
the and I forgot all about that because and I
forgot about it because the way the brain works, it's

(29:55):
this was un it was detached memory. And you know,
like my father used to take me out to the
country house to meet them and a couple of times
when I was a little boy, and nothing was ever
said about it. He didn't say anything about it, so
neither did I. And then after a while it stopped

(30:16):
and it just slipped out of my mind. And so
when they came back in nineteen eighty five, I was shocked.
I didn't even I had no sense of memory of
them at all. But subsequently, you know, it started. It
was pretty rough in eighty five, very rough. It was
awful what happened. But then it got better and now

(30:39):
I have a pretty good working relationship with them. I
would not want them out of my life, and they're
not trying to control me. They're trying to be a
part of my life. Is you know, like a friend would.
It's not, and it's not Stockholm syndrome at all.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Do you think they're trying to get their views out
to the general public by helping you with your books
and giving you ideas and information to write them.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Not their views, their information about them and what they
are like. That's what they're trying to do, and that's
why they've dropped all these flying saucers and things into
the lapse of the military and here in Russia and China,
probably in Europe too, in places to enable us to

(31:36):
try to understand them more so that we can relate
to them and we can have some kind of a relationship,
because the way it is now that we're far from
that still. But the purpose of the books is to
enable us to learn about them. They're not trying to

(31:56):
promote some idea. If they have two things that they're
concerned about, nuclear war and the destruction of the planet,
and those are both survival core survival human survival issues,
and that's why they're concerned because they don't want us
to die off.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Well, you know, we doing a good job of destroying
our planet. That's the scary part right now. I mean
our oceans at this rate. People don't realize without the
plank and we wouldn't have enough oxygen to supply humanity,
and we're killing the oceans. We're doing a good job
of doing it. Have they given you any ideas what
we can do how to stop you know what's going on?

Speaker 2 (32:42):
No, that's up to us. But they did say to
me two years ago that we had seven years left
before the planet become would reach a point where we
could not save ourselves. And now we've got five years left,
and we are entering a situation worldwide where the biggest

(33:04):
powers in the world, China, most polluting powers in the world, China,
the United States, and India have all made in particular,
United States and India agree on one thing, they are
not going to do a thing about pollution and climate change,

(33:25):
and China gives it lip service. But the amount of
CO two coming out of China doesn't change, and it goes
up a little bit every year, meaning that it's all
talk and no action. So we're going to have to
do We're going to have to experience what we're going
to have to experience and what will come out of
it in the end, I don't know. You know.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Again, you know, I'm going to be honest with you.
We're over fishing the oceans. We're killing the whales. People
don't realize what I mentioned about the plankton, you know,
you know, plankton is what we Again, if it wasn't
for whales, we wouldn't have enough plankton to support our oxygen.
You know, a lot of people think it's the rainforest,

(34:08):
it's trees. Well, our oxygen mainly comes from the ocean,
and we're killing the ocean. So at this rate, you know,
we're slaughtering all the sea life. You know, we're overfishing
the oceans, where in the next couple of years we're
not going to have We're gonna have some serious problems.
Not just that. It's a lot of things going on,

(34:28):
you know. And again, you know, you mentioned that they're
worried about nuclear war. I mean, ever since man has
been on this earth, we've been killing each other. And
you have to worry about every day is this going
to escalate over in you know, Ukraine into a nuclear war.
Is this going to happen?

Speaker 3 (34:47):
This?

Speaker 1 (34:48):
And it's really scary.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Well, you know, Iran probably already has a number of
nuclear weapons. Whether or not they're deliverable is another question.
They're probably deliver them, but they have them. And you know,
we're the United States right now it is really pressuring
around about its nukes and there could be something there

(35:14):
could someone could slip, and if they slip, we could
It could be like the beginning of World War One
in July of nineteen fourteen. No one dreamed that there
would be a World war four weeks later and it started.
And you know, we could end up in a situation

(35:36):
very easily where there is a nuclear war, it begins
and ends in fifteen minutes and nobody really ever knows
what the hell happened.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
And that's the scary part.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
You know.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Again, there's been claimed that ET actually has you know,
set up on a couple of bases where you know,
where the missiles started going into the launch cycle. They
stopped it to show us that they have control. Do
you think have they given you any any communication that
they would stop a nuclear holocaust or would they let

(36:10):
it go.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
They have not, and that worries me because I would
I have asked about that and not received any response,
so I can't tell you the answer. I would hope so,
but I fear not they may not be able to.
I mean, we don't even know how many there are here,

(36:33):
or how effective they are in terms of controlling engaging
in social control or military action, or if they would
even do that. There are non vocal species, and they're
mentally linked, and I don't honestly think the Graves have

(36:54):
ever had anything like a war inside them, in the
same sense that you don't go to war with yourself,
because they basically are the oneself with a lot of personalities,
a lot of different people. Now. I think they have
probably differences of opinion, but I don't think they get
to the point of having wars. I do think there's conflict, though,

(37:17):
because this is a big, complicated universe, and I don't
think it's just us in them. I've met two of
the so called tall Whites, and I've met one of
the Nordics, and these people were entirely real and they
were not of this world, and that was very clear.

(37:38):
So that's three species. I can talk about, and from
what I understand, there are lots more. What the Virginia
aliens in Brazil were different from the grades, They were
in the same general form, but they were definitely a
different species entirely and probably from a different world. So,

(38:02):
you know, and think about how many planets. Now that
we've got the Hubble and the other space telescope, we've
been able to estimate the number of planets in the
universe because we can estimate the number of stars, and

(38:24):
with James Webb especially analyzing these stars, we can estimate
the number of planets that are probably around each star
and draw averages. We have enough information for that the
number comes to twenty one sex tillion planets in the universe. Now,

(38:44):
if that's real, if that's a real number, and little
rocky planets that can support with water on them, that
can support life, or incredibly uncommon, that means there's only
maybe maybe a trend ind of them in the universe.

(39:05):
In other words, that in this universe it's so big
that a triviion would be your really rare number. But
think of how many that actually is, and you know,
goodness knows, if it's not. If you reach a point
in your evolution of your understanding of physics, that it

(39:27):
becomes not difficult to travel among the stars, which seems impossible. Now,
if that becomes something that's doable, then we're going to
see a lot of species here. They're going to be
damn weird. A lot of ones we have seen are
weird enough.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, you know, again, how do they get along with
each other? How that has that been communicated with you?

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Uh? Well, there's one pretty solid indication that there is conflict.
And I'll not in my life, I've never seen them
like bickering over over me or anything like that. But
there's a was a crop formation in England that went

(40:17):
down in two thousand and two in a place called Crabwood.
And this is a very famous formation. You'll recognize it
as soon as I began to describe it. It has
an image of a gray and it has an image
of a disc with ask E Coode on it. This
absolutely could not have been made by people. We have

(40:42):
no technology that could do it, not any And if
you look, you'll find that probably CIA motivated people or
flooded the internet early on with stories that it was
all nonsense and it was fake. It isn't and that
ASCI code was translated. It was in English, and it

(41:06):
was easily translated. I could have done it myself, but
somebody else did it before me. And it says, beware
the bearers of false gifts and they're broken promises. There
is good out there, much pain, but still time. Now

(41:28):
in two thousand and two, much pain and still time.
Is there still time in twenty twenty five? Not as
much time, obviously because twenty one years have passed. But
listen to that message. There is there Beware. You don't
say beware of someone if there's not conflict of the

(41:52):
bearers of false gifts and they're broken promises. That means
that somebody is you're giving us something that isn't real.
They're giving us gifts that aren't what they seem to be.
That therefore they are hostile to us. They do not

(42:14):
have our best interests at heart. There is good out
there means that there is someone else who wants to
help us. Therefore, yes, there is certainly conflict, but the
dimensions of it I don't know. I never ever go
beyond what I can talk about proof, because you'll have

(42:37):
plenty of people come on here and say, oh, yeah,
the Reptilians and the Grays are at conflict, and the
toll writes this and that I don't know any of that,
but I can assure you that there is definitely conflict.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
I really think there is. Can we take one call
a caller? Who do we have? Hi? This is Barb,
Hi Barb, you have a question for.

Speaker 6 (43:01):
Yeah. First, I want to thank him for coming on,
and I want to ask him, in all of the
times that he's met with these aliens, did they ever
mention anything about their own planet or share anything personal
with him?

Speaker 2 (43:22):
No, I've never had any indication of where they are from.
I therefore can't say they're aliens. I don't know what
they are. I can say that they have appeared in
my life in two ways, in three ways. One I
ended up in my other ships with them. Two they

(43:44):
would come up out of the ground at the cabin,
but never downum fromable above as far as I was aware.
Three they appear spontaneously in places. They suddenly just there.
And those are the three ways I've seen them, and
there's been very little of that. So I I really

(44:08):
don't want to mislead to anyone about that. It isn't
something that happens regularly. In fact, the last big event
I had with them in my personal life was there's
a little place on my right leg, just above my
ankle that they haven't done this in a long time,

(44:30):
but they would stick a little tiny needle in it
every once in a while, and usually they would come
while I was asleep, and I would know they had
come because there would be a little red needle mark
there in that thing. And I don't know why they
did it. I can't explain it. I had no idea
what it was for. But one night I woke up
in the middle of the night and I realized there

(44:51):
was something between my legs in the bed. And since
I have no dogs and no cats and there's no
rats or anything around here, it was a co couple
beats as I came up from sleep sleep and I thought,
wait a minute, there's something in bed with me. And
I jumped up out of the bed. And because I

(45:11):
wasn't expecting that, and you know, you know this happens
when you're asleep, you're not going to necessarily react well,
and I did it. The little being immediately leaped up leaving.
He scratched both of my legs with his they have
these claws and as he was jumping away and jumped

(45:32):
off into the bathroom and disappeared. That's the kind of
physical contact I have had in recent years, not much,
but what with I wish I could tell you they
were aliens. I don't know if they are.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
That answer your question, Barb, Yes, thank you very much, Okay,
thank you.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Again. When you think about all this stuff, I mean,
make you wonder, you know another thing, because our time
is almost gone. What do you think about disclosure the
way it's going it seems now with what's going on
politics wise, tariffs and all this stuff, it's now kind
of like, you know, forgotten pretty much, at least with
a government side.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
What do you think And I don't think it will happen.
I think the visitors are in control of how they are.
It's not up to the government. If they want us
to know they're here and to the general public to
know about them, they will do that, and they will
do it probably in such a way that the government

(46:37):
will suddenly admit that they are real. But it'll be
behind the scenes. It'll be there doing whether it's using
mind control or what it is. Interface with between government
people in them or not. I don't know how it
will work, but I do know this, It ain't up
to us. Governments have no say in it. The visitors

(46:59):
make their own decisions about the degree to which they
are going to be seen. And right now they are
constantly they're very aware of ontological shock, that is the
shock of the new and they watch the culture and
the society very very carefully, and they see that as

(47:21):
they come closer and people become more aware of their presence,
the scientific and academic communities are hard against this. You'll
find if you go on Wikipedia that they're taking down
UAP related Wikipedia pages. Just today, Yeah, just today I

(47:43):
heard from a podcaster whose ability, the company that handled
his financial transactions on his website, told him that they
were canceling his account. And the man actually said, it's

(48:06):
probably because of the UAP stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Well, you know what I found out. You know what
I found out, even YouTube, which is Google, if you
mentioned the wrong wording of a show, I've had some
shows pulled down and be moved and it was nothing
wrong with it, just the wording. If you mentioned, you know,
like disclosure the wrong way on UFOs or whatever. If
you worded this a little bit like, Hey, breaking news

(48:33):
on disclosure, you having that episode yanked off?

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yeah, I know everyone I know has that problem, and
so that's an increasing that what's happening, as far as
I understand it from the dialogues I do have with
the visitors quite frankrently, frequently, the closer they get, the
more intense that shock becomes. So that when they're very

(48:59):
close to us us, we'll know it because everybody's gonna
be taking all of our stuff down and taking our
money out of our bank accounts and everything. They'll go
on a war path against us right at the end,
and then the visitors will show up and it'll, you know,
we'll the ones of us who are left, the ones

(49:19):
left standing will hopefully carry the continue to carry the torchair.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I hope. So let's take one more call and then
we'll talk a minute about or two about your newest book.
And then I just want to say, it's been a
real pleasure having you back. On Who do we have
out there?

Speaker 3 (49:37):
This is art Hi, Hi, Gary and Lee Uh, very
interesting subject I wanted to I'll be short in not
going to the details, but in this has to do
with retillions. I've seen these from my friend's video from
his house. He got these two green, four feet tall

(50:01):
avans with the almond shaped, big big heads. Their chin
came down to their solar plex. But I noticed their
thought that was their suit looked like the little scales
of under the belly of a lizard. So I'm considering
they were probably reptilion of some species. Then I was
at a meeting, a move on meeting, and I met

(50:23):
a uh a, this woman that was a highbred and
her eyes were going from reptilian to human in there
and with the witness with me, and then I got
confirmation from a p I kick investigator. So from there
got a highbred retilian. And then I had a friend

(50:45):
that she went on the show about an underground maid. Yes,
the question, the question is that these are different retilian
issues of different raptiinas that look different and our yet
they're from a reptilian species, So what would you be?

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Well, just get short, I have not had any experience
with reptilians and therefore I can't answer the question.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Oh boy, okay, well I just one maybe I can
give you is that uh seeing these and I won't
go further, but this is there was other ones and
they looked like velociraptors to a human that had like
a reptilian on a picture came out reptilian looking years
and a facial in that kind. And then the Highbred,
and then two aliens that were green short but the

(51:33):
allment the green color.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
This okay almost thank you for calling in. Okay, okay, okay, Yeah, anyway, Yeah,
that your book? Where is it available? And again you
said it took about a year to write it?

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Two years?

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Two years?

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Uh. Yeah, it's available on Amazon as a hardcover, vaperback
and an audiobook which I've read. It's read by me.
You can get go to Unknown Country dot com and
click on store and you can order signed copies of
the hardcover of that and also of Communion Communion and

(52:15):
of them my previous book. And I'm going to be
at Contact in the Desert in on May the thirty first.
I've got a lecture, a workshop, and an intensive.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Well people need to go and go see you again.
Is there anything in this book any warnings to the
population and humanity or anything in this book?

Speaker 2 (52:42):
In my book?

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah? The Fourth Mind?

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Oh no. The purpose of the Fourth Mind is to
help people, not to scare them. The first half of
it lays out the anatomy and functionality and the way
the minds of the visitors and brains of the visitors
working so far as I know these things, and what

(53:06):
their ideas about the nature of reality and what we
call spirituality are. And the second part of the book
goes into our own past and talks about why we
don't have abilities that they do have, such as the
ability to levitate, the ability to use telepathy, and how

(53:30):
we can regain those abilities and why we lost them
We had them too.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, I was going to ask you, I think at
one point we had them and we lost them.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
We lost them. That's exactly correct. And it's no fault
of anybody's there's nobody at fault here. It's just the
same as with climate change. We all blame each other,
but it's only one thing causing this. It's population explosive,
a population explosion, and we're not mad our population adequately,

(54:02):
and you know, we have a lot of people here
and we have to accept the fact that that's putting
a lot of stress on the planet.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Yeah, and you said they're saying we got about five
years before it's pretty much too late.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, that's correct.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Well, hopefully I make it another five years. I don't
know if I want to be here at the end,
you know.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah, I'm not sure I do either, But I do
my work for the kids. I love this and kind
and I love children, and I want to see more children.
You know, we have probably got more than a million
years in our DNA before we would spontaneously begin to

(54:49):
run out of new ideations expressions of the human body.
So we've got a lot of living to do man kind,
and I want us to do that.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Here's something that's kind of par fetched before I let
you go. You know, I really think this planet has
been rebooted a couple times. I really do. Could the
Grays have been humans at one time? Humanity?

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Oh goodness. Yes, we don't know what the heck happened
to this planet in the past. We know what we
can dig up and we can make ideas of it.
But there's things like there's a billion year gap. You
can find it in the Grand Canyon where one strata
and is a billion years older than the next strata

(55:39):
that's sitting right on top of it. So what was there?
Where is it? Was it ice? Was this a ball
of ice for a billion years? I guess it could
have been. But you understand, we really don't know what
this planet is or where it's been, and it's his

(56:00):
what it has happened here. Most of the planet's history
appears to have not had life on it at all.
But is that because it didn't or because we just
the record's gone, it's been wiped clean. I think you're
probably right. I don't know why it wouldn't be wiped

(56:22):
clean from time to time, maybe not even by nature,
I mean not even intentionally, but by just nature. And
you know, there's a great horror novelist I was. I
started out my life as a horror novelist called HP Lovecraft.
He wrote these wonderfully scary stories about the old ones
who came from a very ancient and long extinguished life

(56:49):
on Earth that was entirely different from ours. And you know,
he was a really mysterious man, Lovecraft, And you think
to yourself, maybe he knew somewhere in himself of some
kind of a truth about the mysteries of this planet.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
That it's fast And you know, we're still not done
with the mysteries of the future too.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
By no means, the future is heading right for us,
and it's the future. As far as I can see
is a is A is a train roaring down the
tracks at top speed, and the passengers are all from
other worlds. You know.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, the question I don't you don't have to answer
because I don't want to really put you in the spot.
But a lot of uphologists, I think, are getting frustrated
and they're they're they're flip flopping around like a fish
out of water on the on the bank, and there
their stories are changing. That's what I like about you.
You have stayed fast all through you know, as long

(57:58):
as I can remember.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
For a simple reason, all I have to do is
use my memory, and I tell only things I actually
remember an experience, like the last caller. I'm not gonna
talk about reptilians because I haven't seen any, so I'm
I don't have to worry about that. I'm gonna talk
about what I know and nothing else.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
And that makes that makes logical sense.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Yeah, my wife was very smart about that. She said quickly,
this is really strange, and the only way you're going
to get through this is you're gonna have to talk
about you remember to talk about just what you know
and never anything else. When I was writing communion. She
would she would take the manuscript pages and she would say, quickly,
this paragraph is your that you're making assumptions here. You

(58:48):
don't know this, and we make it out. I learned
from her how to do that. She was a school
teacher by trade and an excellent one.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
You know, one last question for you, Yeah, before I
let you go. Some people claim that planet Earth is
a prison planet. I don't buy that. What's your feeling.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
I'm of two minds about it. I think that there
might be that might be possible because the reason is.
It's also possible, though, to think of it more as
a school, because it is you do ascend off of
this level. I'm sure that can happen, but it takes work.

(59:35):
It's not something that just is automatic. You can't, you know,
like go to confession and then go to heaven. You
have to work at it. You have to really work
at it. Annie, I used Annie was a very enlightened person.
My wife and I asked her about that. I said,

(59:55):
what is enlightenment? And she said, maybe the best thing
I've ever heard of out in light Because I think
she probably was enlightened, especially toward the end of her life.
She said, Enlightenment is what happens when there's nothing left
of us but love, and you concentrate your life on
that aim, and everything changes, and you think to yourself,

(01:00:20):
prison planet, school, whatever it is, I have a destiny
that is worth living for.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
That is really heavy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
I don't think so. I think it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Oh yeah it is.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Yeah, of course you're a thing like that. You know
it's true because it is true. She was right about
a lot of things, and that was one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Are you thinking about writing another book?

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
And I'm working on another book. I'm always working.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
On a book.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
If I'm not working on a book, then I wouldn't
be entirely alive. So it's it's still banging around in here,
but it's it's gonna come out soon. I think I'm
gonna I'm going abroad after contacting the desert for the summer,
and I'm gonna I'm going to write. I'm gonna hang

(01:01:22):
out with friends in Europe and write.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
It sounds like a good plan, you know, especially now
more than ever. Uh Whitley, Again, I want to thank
you for being back on and again. You know our connection.
You know I was a friend of our bell, you
were a great friend of our bells. Yeah, and you
know I and again I watch your your show quite often.

(01:01:48):
And again, can you share how they can find your
your show on YouTube?

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Sure, just go to Whitney Streeber Dreamland or Streebert Dreamland
probably work too, or Whitley Dreamland will work. If you
just go to Dreamland, you'll get a bunch of things.
But if you put any part of my name and it,
you'll get me. And yeah, I have a lovely YouTube

(01:02:14):
channel and it's a good show. Dreamland's been. Dreamland is
probably could be the first podcast because I went I
was on clear Channel for a year a couple of
years after Art decided he couldn't handle Dreamland as well
as coost being on seven nights a week turned out

(01:02:37):
to be a little bit boring. He gave me Dreamland,
and I and Clear Channel drop Dreamland after about two years,
and then I took it on the internet and I
just you know, I think it might have been the
first podcast because that was like two thousand and two.