UFO And Aircraft Todd Curtis

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
A siss s s.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
S whose friends with all the night Dreamers stuck it

(01:58):
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Speaker 4 (02:49):
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This show is for entertainment purposes only. Listener this question
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(03:15):
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Speaker 5 (04:00):
Oh, Jasey, I needed some fireworks sound for effect because
today is the fourth of July.

Speaker 6 (04:07):
Well, all you have to do is just turn it
up a little bit on when I talk, because that's
all I can hear NonStop is fireworks outside. Now live
in the middle of town.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
Well, it's going to be a lot here tonight, I
tell you that. And I wonder how many people might
think they're UFOs.

Speaker 6 (04:24):
Yeah yeah, or something yeah, something going on. Maybe it's
an invation.

Speaker 5 (04:28):
That could be an orb it could be you know.

Speaker 6 (04:33):
For everybody's got traditions. Some people go watch fireworks, always
watch a certain movie.

Speaker 5 (04:38):
What do you do, Gary, I keep thinking about the
two times that could have killed myself with fireworks. That's
why I don't do it anymore. One back, many years ago,
when I got out of the army, I had a
couple of the you know flares that they sent out,
and I tell you, they go up like about one
thousand feet. They're not like what you see if fireworks

(05:01):
and I you know, I set it up on you know,
a hill at my house and set it off. But
I didn't have it that securely. And as I was
running away from it, it started leaning. It shot me
in the back. Can you figure a artillery, you know

(05:24):
one It was enough to like knock me down and
send me about twenty feet burned, a big hole in
my jacket. I had a big bruise on my back.
I had to go to the hospital. I had thirty
degree burns in my back from it. I tell you
that was one reason for years I didn't do it.
But then I was stupid. I got some fireworks, you know, the.

Speaker 6 (05:47):
Rockets, bottle rockets.

Speaker 5 (05:50):
Yeah, and you know we have almost two acres of
cedar trees. The rocket didn't go straight up. Yeah, it
was one of those Nazi rockets that kind of went
that way and it went to the trees. Yeah, and
the next thing I know, a tree is smoking. Now

(06:11):
these trees are like ninety one hundred and one hundred
and twenty feet tall. Good thing it didn't catch on fire.
It smoked for a while, didn't catch on fire. Could
you imagine I would have had no cedar trees. Yeah,
and a lot of people wouldn't have had houses either,
I'll tell you that.

Speaker 6 (06:30):
No, No, them bottle rocks was something else. Back in
our youngest day, we used to have bottle rocket wars,
and of course what would happen. We'd be in cars
and one of them went through the window and went
off inside the car with about four people. Do you
know the shockwave that's about made his death?

Speaker 5 (06:46):
Well, you know again, I think one other time when
I was living in an apartment when we first got married,
we had one or two kids, I can't remember. After
each of them, I had a bottle rocket. I went
out to the street and I lit it and the
bottle fell over. So the rocket shot out underneath the
car and then went up and took out my neighbor's window.

(07:12):
That wasn't the bad part. Then her curtains caught on fire.
Oh boy, so now here's the fire department. Since then,
you can't get me ever to play with fireworks.

Speaker 6 (07:23):
No, me either.

Speaker 5 (07:24):
I'm good with that, and I like having my fingers attached, Yes, definitely.
Now did you do anything today exciting?

Speaker 7 (07:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:32):
You know what?

Speaker 6 (07:33):
Had a barbecue family and I was trying to tell
our little nephew, Hey, stay away with fireworks from all
those reasons you kind of just mentioned.

Speaker 5 (07:39):
Actually, hell yeah, I still like it. When I was
a kid, they're putting fireworks and mailboxes. But I was
only about ten years old. Anyway, a big shout out
to June and Gypsy. We got Polly out there. We
have December, well, need name a couple of them.

Speaker 6 (07:55):
We got wood Rider, we got June or you just
mentioned gun Gypsy in December, and actually we get a
lot of fourteen people are so stening in right now,
but a lot of them are into the chat, not.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
Listening on chat. Okay, don't make It's not like we
only have fifteen listeners when we pull in like thirty
to seventy thousand, you.

Speaker 6 (08:15):
Know, seventy four gotta watch what you say, seventy four
thousand of this last show. But yeah, Art's out there.
He's always out there. He's there, he's out there, he's
their listening. Yeah, he's a good friend too. Anyway, let's
find out about our guests.

Speaker 5 (08:33):
Do you want to do that? Okay, let's find out.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Todd Curtis has spent most of his career in aviation,
first as a US Air Force flight test engineer. As
a safety engineer at Boeing, he analyzed airliner accidents and
incidents and modeled a broad range of aviation risks. He
wrote the two thousand book Understanding Aviation Safety Data, which

(09:00):
detailed a systematic process for assessing and managing aviation related risks.
He's currently an aviation risk consultant. Todd began studying UAP
related aviation risks after a UFO siting directly above a
passenger terminal at Chicago's O'Hare Airport in two thousand and six.

(09:20):
More recently, Todd presented findings on suspected UAP events in
the NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System Database in twenty twenty
four at Contact in the Desert, and was a featured
panelist at the twenty twenty five conference. He is currently
a member of a committee of the American Institute of
Aeronautics and Astronautics tasked with addressing the aviation safety aspects

(09:44):
of UAP. Todd earned his BSE in Electrical engineering and
Computer Science from Princeton University, an MS in Electrical engineering
from the University of Texas at Austin an sm AND
Management and a second sm and TI Technology and Policy
from MIT and a PhD in Aviation Risk Assessment from

(10:06):
the Union Institute. He is a private pilot, has appeared
in several episodes of the Air Disasters series on the
Smithsonian Channel, and has shared his aviation safety expertise as
an on air expert on CNN, Fox News, BBC, al Jazeera, CTV,
and many other major media organizations around the world. Todd's

(10:27):
discussions about UFOs, UAP and aviation safety are wide ranging.
Todd Curtis, who has decades of experience as an aviation
safety pro in talking about how he became interested in
UFO's growing up, said he was motivated to take a
serious look at the relationship between UFOs and aviation safety

(10:49):
after noticing a substantial lack of any formal US government
interest or investigation into the aforementioned two thousand and six
sighting at Chicago's O'Hare Airport.

Speaker 5 (11:00):
That's the one.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Where there were multiple witnesses to an unauthorized and potentially
hazardous presence of an unknown aircraft or a possible UFO
directly above a passenger terminal. Inspired by the twenty ten
book UFOs, generals, pilots and governmental officials go on the record.
Todd often discusses how he reviewed multiple US Aviation Safety

(11:23):
Database reports of UFOs and UFO type behavior and discovered
in the NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System Database thirteen reports
of unexpected, unusual and hazardous behavior of aerospace vehicles that
also demonstrated capabilities quite unlike our conventional aircraft.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
Well, welcome to the show, Todd. How are you doing
on the fourth of July.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
I'm doing outstanding.

Speaker 5 (11:52):
Well, did you set any fireworks though?

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well, that's why it's so outstanding. After hearing your fireworks stories,
it's like, A, I can't hold a camp of those
no pun intended, and B my dogs can't stand fireworks,
so not hearing any explosions is a good day for me.

Speaker 5 (12:06):
What type of dogs do you have?

Speaker 3 (12:08):
I have a golden doodle and a poodle miss. I'm
not sure what kind of poodle makes. She was a
rescue and one of them. You can hear it barking
in the background, and I have just enough treats to
keep them trot quiet.

Speaker 7 (12:20):
Girl.

Speaker 5 (12:20):
Wow, we got two great danes in a German shepherd
and I'll tell you what what they bark? They bark
You hear them a block away. Well, you know how
old were you when you started started getting interested in
like flying?

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Oh gosh, I was in elementary school, six seven years old.
I grew up in San Antonio, which was a then
and now a very big military town. And this was
during Vietnam. You had Fort sam you some literally like
three miles away from where I lived, and there's constantly
Hewy's and other helicopters flying in and about because that's
where a lot of the medical medic training was taking place.

(13:00):
And you had a couple of training bases for the
Air Force, including lack Them where every enlisted person goes through,
and Randolph where a lot of pilots get trained. So
there was always that activity in the air. Knew a
lot of people who worked in and around that. And
it was also during the Space program, So what kid
didn't want to watch, you know, the astronauts do their
thing in the sixties and seventies back then.

Speaker 5 (13:21):
Wow, you know I got interested too, just like you
and flying. I was in the Civil Air Patrol back then.
I don't even know if it exists anymore, but I
joined the gliding club and got into gliders and that
was doing really good for me, and I had one

(13:42):
bad experience. I don't know if you're old enough to
remember the old Kentucky Fried Chickens establishments that had the
big steeple on it. Oh yes, yeah. Well there's a
place called Izaquah near Seattle. And we went out and
I was up for maybe about twenty five minutes, and
then I was stayed out a little bit longer because

(14:04):
of the plane. I wash and the glider was an
old Norwegian trainer and so it was really heavy. It
was not no fiberglass. It was a luninum. It was
the four seater. Believe it or not. I stayed out
too long, and so as I was coming back to
the airport, I swear I was going to clear it.

(14:24):
But I took the steeple off the Kentucky Fried Chicken
and then they said, you know what, you should give
it up. And I gave it up for a while,
picked it up again when I got married, and you know,
I just got burned out on it because it's I
wanted to go for power craft, but having all the children,
I could never afford it.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
Well that's a common refrain even if you don't have children,
because flying then and now is not something for the faint.
Of heart financially speaking, So anything that you know in
my possession now, anything I can do to make that
process easier for those coming up, more than happy to
do it, and believe it or not that addressing UAPs
is one of those because, as I'll probably talk about later,

(15:07):
I didn't really realize it until I got into it.
But pilot mental health is also a factor here because
let's say you're flying your your glider and you hit
a Kentucky Fried chicken steeple. Okay, not the greatest thing
to do, but it's a story you've probably been telling
for forty plus years now. If you had hit instead
something that looked like a UAP, you would have clammed

(15:28):
up about it. There was nothing you could have told,
you could have made you talk to people about that story,
because thirty forty years ago they were thought you were crazy.
Well you and your flight instructors wouldn't fly with you again.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
Yeah, but you know, going back nineteen forty seven, by
Mount Rainier, the pilot it reported the UFO, which really
got everything going about UFOs. I wonder how it affected
him afterwards.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Well, I actually read a few articles not too long
ago talking about how that part of the experience had
his psychological effects afterwards. It was something you didn't talk
about back in the day, and I think it was
his daughter who was talking about that. And in one
of the things cases I looked at, where ten years
ago a glider pilot coincidentally had a close encounter with

(16:16):
something that was not a conventional aircraft. He talked about it,
he sent a report to NASA, he had an independent team,
including a former MASSA scientists, check it out and make
a long report about it, but he never talked about
the personal aspects of it. Ten years later, he shows
up on the podcast I'm part of the Flight Safety Detectives,
and myself and one of the other co hosts were

(16:38):
interviewing him and he opens up about how he had
essentially PTSD symptoms based on this recurring nightmares flashbacksman was
in the cockpit after the event happened. The kind of
thing where now pilot mental health is something that's talked
about a lot more openly than thirty years ago. And
until I had that interview with this person, I never

(17:00):
put together a connection between potential psychological effects, not direct
psychological effects of electroma waves or anything, but the kind
of thing that happens already in aviation. Someone has an event,
they get spooked by it. Maybe they deal with it,
maybe they don't. But they don't deal with it. They
get in their career either because their company or organization

(17:23):
says you can't fly anymore, or they say to themselves,
you know what, I don't want to go through that
again ever, so I'll just go another career path here.

Speaker 5 (17:31):
Well, yeah, that's quite possible. I used to know back
who many years ago, one of the vice presidents of
Republic Airlines. Now I know you know who they are.
A lot of people you say it, they don't even
remember Republic Airlines. They were a big airline at one time.
And he told me if if any pilot ever he
advises pilots, if you ever see anything, do not get

(17:55):
on the horn and say anything, because that'll be the
end of your career. At that time, and you know himself,
he was in Vietnam. He flew a bomber from I
think Guam to Hanoi to drop eggs what he called it,
and on one of his round trips coming back, and
it was this actually last one because he got in
a lot of trouble coming back to Guam, there was

(18:18):
a UFO off his wing. He claimed it was a
disc shape and it was off maybe a couple hundred
feet off of his wing. In fact, his co pilot said, hey, look,
what's that the wind and he freaked out. The whole
crew freaked out. He got on his horn and radio.
We got a UFO right off our wing. They told
him to break silent, you know, go silent, don't say

(18:39):
anything more. And then he got another radio message when
he lands, do not depart the plane. So when he landed,
he was surrounded with you know, military police armed and
all that stuff. They broke up every crew member and
interrogated to each one. Now he was a colonel. He

(19:01):
wanted to make before he retired Brigader general. That was
his goal. He was told basically, you should resign, and
that was the end of his career. And that, you know,
that was back in the you know, late sixties.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Well, that was something that is something that is still
going on in some areas, even up to the state
because until let's say twenty seventeen, when the articles came
out in New York Times, the average person talking about
this subject in a serious way in connection with aviation
was something he didn't see in traditional media at all.

(19:37):
And a lot of the efforts that are happening now
either private efforts with private databases being put together of
pilot reports or kind of thing I'm doing right now.
Even ten years ago, there wasn't a community out there
for people to talk to when I was first getting
into this. Actually after two thousand and six, after the
Chicago event, I was basically wandering around thinking, Okay, I

(19:59):
could talk about it to my colleagues, but none of
them are dealing with this. It's not even recognized as
a hazard by the powers that be, be it the
FAA or the US government. And fast forward, a lot
of things have happened, the twenty seventeen New York Times
article being one of them. And of course you mentioned
the book by Leslie Kane, which was a revelation to

(20:20):
me because I didn't realize there were other countries that
actually had halfway decent official information about these things until
I read that book, which got me thinking about long term,
why don't you have anything here in the US databases?

Speaker 6 (20:36):
Now?

Speaker 3 (20:37):
As you mentioned, I've been dealing with aviation safety and
aviation safety for decades. I know all sorts of databases
the NTSB accident reports. A lot of people know about that,
but a lot of other databases, fantastic databases known to
the aviation community, the Aviation Safety Reporting System being one
of them, and many others. Why isn't something like that

(20:59):
in there? And I said to myself, Okay, put myself
back in my shoes. Twenty five years ago when I
was still a Boeing, let's say something came across our
desk one day about an incident with a bowling aircraft
and it was a straight up UFO involve In my opinion,
there is no way it would have gone outside of
that room because if this goes up to management, they'll say, look,

(21:20):
take this out. If it is found out by our colleagues,
it's like, what, you guys are writing this report about
this thing that didn't take the airplane out, but you're
talking about UFOs. Why are you doing this? Don't mess
up the party we have going on here. So I thought,
there's probably a lot of stuff out there, but written
up in such a way where the unmentionable isn't mentioned directly.

Speaker 5 (21:45):
What can you imagine the like Boeing aircraft or any
of the other ones. If all of a sudden, you know,
they admit that there's a UFO out there. It could
affect their sales, it could affect the people not wanting
to go on board a craft.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
And it was even to the point where myself, who
I was steeped in this, I was aware of it.
I wasn't afraid of talking about it except in certain contexts.
Ten years ago, I was asked to go on a
TV show. The episode was UFOs versus Airliners. It wasn't
the air disaster. Show was another show I think it
was on the Discovery Channel, and they gave me details

(22:24):
from three airliner reports where the airline crews had very
detailed sketch drawings in some cases about what they saw.
These were legitimate reports. These weren't in government databases. These
were privately done by the pilots and available to the public.
I went through and said, yes, I'll talk about all
three of these. I asked the producers, can I do
this without having the phrase UFO come out of my mouth,

(22:46):
because even ten years ago, I was afraid of the
professional blowback from being too closely associated with this subject.

Speaker 5 (22:55):
Did you have any blowback?

Speaker 3 (22:58):
No, because part one of the reason I don't have
any blowback is having run my own consulting business. My
partners I work with, they know what I do that's
not on their dime. They don't have a problem with it.
So if they don't have a problem with it, I
don't have a problem with it. And I got to
the point in my career where what could possibly happen
with me talking about a legitimate aviation safety issue that's

(23:21):
been ignored? Am I getting me made fun of? Because
I'm talking about an ignored safety issue of which there
are many can well make fun of?

Speaker 5 (23:31):
Can I ask you a blunt question, Todd? Has there
been any scuttle butt between you you and your colleagues
about maybe a UFO Cosmo plane to crash now?

Speaker 3 (23:44):
And the closest say I came to that there was
a colleague of mine well I mentioned, saying John Golei,
a former NTSB board member. He's actually talked about this.
I asked him several times, has there ever been something
in your years at the NTSB that an unknown something
happened took out an airplane? And he said, basically, it
was a mid air collision off of Florida where they

(24:04):
had some sort of faint transfer that they couldn't identify
on the crashed aircraft, but they could never find the
other aircraft. Was that a traditional UFO is just an
unknown aircraft. And you know Florida and aircraft an unknown.
There's a lot of cargo being flown in and around
Florida that has nothing to do with a non human intelligence,
and a whole lot of log agree with how should

(24:26):
I say it? Off? The book's commerce. So there could
be all sorts of things going on with weird events
where you know, people are inclined not to be fully
truthful about what they were doing there and why they
were there.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
Well, you know one thing I always find it fascinating
people claim when they see a UFO and they're in
their car, the first thing they say is, well, my
car died. I couldn't start it. But then again, you
got electrical system in these aircraft, and it can vary
between if it's an older aircraft or if it's a
per cub or if it's a seven forty seven for example. Well,

(25:04):
if a UFO can sit there and cause the power
go out in a car, wouldn't it make sense that
then if they come up next to off a wing
of a of seven you know, thirty seven or whatever.
Would it maybe cause the engines, it in electrical systems
to fail.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
It's possible. And my argument about that situation is, why
don't we see things like that in the database. Well,
let's say something that happens, Something happens in the air
and for whatever reason, the aircraft doesn't make it back.
You have something that's not a physical effect, let's say
electromagnetic disruption, or the pilot gets freaked out in zigs
instead of zags and they lose control of the aircraft.

(25:48):
There will be no remaining physical evidence of the thing
that caused that. There are no external cameras that record
everything the way that the cockpit voice recorder records voices
or the flight data recorder records internal data. And even
if it did record internal data that was anomalous, there
could be all sorts of explanations. Well, everything was normal

(26:10):
until things went topsy turvy, and gosh, we have no
idea why, because there's no physical evidence on the crashed
aircraft that would give us a clue as to what happened.

Speaker 5 (26:21):
Very interesting, Now, have you interviewed a lot of pilots
about these near you know, UFOs being off the aircraft.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Not a lot of pilots. Now that my focus has
been on looking at official and industry databases and focusing
on that. However, I do hear stories, and in fact,
the first story I ever heard was at the very
beginning of my Air Force career. I was an officer
school and one of my first fellow of officer trainees
in my innit he was a linguist who flew on

(26:56):
various aircraft in the Mediterranean. By the way, his language
specialty was here. I'm not going to speculate as to why,
but he was a Hebrew linguist flying around the Mediterranean,
and he said, one night, we're there on a mission
night mission, and they had this white vehicle of some
kind doing circles like this around the aircraft. Didn't affect

(27:16):
the mission, didn't cause any malfunctions. They went about their
business and went back. It wasn't something that would, in
my opinion, would have been reported, because what's the upside
for the crew to report something that didn't affect the
mission that they can't explain and they cannot identify it
as being an adversary aircraft.

Speaker 5 (27:36):
Well, I can tell you one reason why they wouldn't
report it. They they didn't want to go through what
my friend went through. I mean seriously, and again, depending
on how far back it was, it could be enough
where they wouldn't be a pilot anymore in the Air
Force or whatever they're in, because it would be enough
where they would either be labeled as maybe Metley unfit

(27:58):
or NASE security leakage. It could go a lot of
different ways.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Absolutely, everyone on that aircraft probably had a well above
a secret clearance and having that go around the unit
could put you in jeopardy of not sitting on that
kind of mission there. Oh yeah, I can see the
reason why why they wouldn't report it.

Speaker 5 (28:19):
Yeah, then they would also be labeled. Now what I'm
my concern is now that you people pilots. I've talked
to a couple of them through the past years. So
supposedly they you know, you can go and you can
report your encounter and nothing's going to happen to you. Well,
I've talked to a couple of pilots and they said
things still happen till.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
And that's a real fear. That is the stigma that
goes along with it. The potential professional impacts of reporting
this are such that pilots, and not just pilots. We're
talking air traffic controllers. We're talking mechanics who might see
things happening in the shop where they know how that
weird malfunction got there, and they can't explain it, and

(29:02):
they don't want to go on the record saying well,
I can't find any reason for this very weird thing
that happened. Oh, by the way, it happened on this
flight over here, because hey, if they do that, they
might get that whole flight crew in a bit of
a pickle. So there's all sorts of social forces to
keep people from reporting it. One of the social forces
are internal. What if your of a mindset, which a

(29:25):
lot of people were thirty forty years ago, even if
they'd heard of UFOs and movies and whatnot, they think
this is all a bunch of hullabolotle. It isn't real.
Even if I see something that looks like AUAHP slash UFO,
these things cannot possibly exist. Therefore what I just saw
did not exist.

Speaker 5 (29:45):
Yeah, it is so interesting that as far as we
are advancing of being open, you know, with all the
disclosure coming out of Washington, DC, with the Congress and
by the way I want your take that to me,
I'm gonna be honest with you here. They haven't kept
their word with the public about the releasing information like

(30:09):
they said they would do. And I some of the
not guests, but some of the people with you know, whistleblowers.
I really I'm kind of not so much about their
reputation of being maybe totally honest, because I'm finding right now.
I don't know if you notice it that everybody. If

(30:31):
you listen to all these different podcasts out there, and
they're talking about UFOs, they're hyping it up and they're
spreading stuff, but maybe they're hearing on TikTok and they're
and then they're coming onto their podcasts and and it's
saying it like it's real. And I find it's doing
more damage to try to prove that these things really

(30:53):
exist by the way these people handle it. But what's
your take on Congress to me it was a clown city.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
Well, it's a complex situation because there are several I
wouldn't call them factions. There are several aspects to EAP.
For instance, in fact, there was one part of the
US government which made a very clear, unambiguous statement about
Reidly's UAP. This was back in twenty twenty one. It
was out of the opposite of the Director of National Intelligence,

(31:25):
the cabinet official who's over the CIA, the NSA, and
a whole bunch of other three letter of security agencies,
where they said in a statement that UAP were both
an AVI agent safety issue and a potential national security issue.
They said not only in plain English, it was in
bold type at the beginning of a section. I said
to myself when I read that, I've never seen something
this plain and simple coming out of the mouths of

(31:47):
the US government, And that sort of spurred me to
look a little bit more deeply into government databases. As
a matter of fact. Now, let's say that you have
one part of government, the national security part of it,
very concerned about itnational security part of government is stove
piped away from civil aviation, the Department of Transportation, for example.

(32:07):
Is there a definition for UAP that's an official definition
from the FAA right now? There isn't. I don't fault
them for that because it takes long time to change definitions.
It goes through a process. I understand that. But if
you don't have a definition or a set of definitions
about a risk. I don't care if that risk as
bird strikes aircraft or UAP. How do you communicate that

(32:30):
risk through the formalized safety systems that exist in the FAA.
If you don't even have a definition for they would
be at a loss. They meaning anyone dealing with this
would be at a loss coming to grips with how
do we even explain this in a way that will
catch the attention of the people it should catch the attention.

Speaker 5 (32:50):
How can you.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Well, that's one of the things I'm struggling with now,
and in fact, one of my going in positions I
have about the UAP and aviation safety is that this
is one part of it is an aviation safety issue.
There are rules in place, there are ways of looking
at risk, characterizing risk, measuring risk, and even dealing with
subjective risks as opposed to objective measureables. There are ways

(33:14):
of dealing with that that exists right now for a
lot of things. They don't exist for UAP. Why not,
Like I said before, there's no definitions for those sorts
of things. Why isn't there a definition for it? Because
there's no regulatory or legal oomph that's making the FA
make those things happen. Great. So what we have here
is a marketing issue. We have something that is a

(33:37):
clear issue that will interrupt the products and services that
people use in aviation. The service being I can go
out and find the airplane safety, the product being my
ability to do so and manage the risk when I
do this, so my customers will be happy. Where do
you go from here? Well, part of it's going to

(33:57):
be an educational process, educating the relevant parts of aviation
issue that this is real. Not only is it real,
but it's already been discussed and dealt with in certain
ways and inside and outside of aviation, and encouraging folks
within aviation to do something in their power to move
the ball forward. What could that thing be? Or my

(34:21):
investigation of ASRS, the Aviation Safety Reporting System of NASA,
there was actually a code in the database for UFO.
There were like nine different events in their entire I
think eighty thousand events that are on their online database.
Thirteen of them had UFO in it. About nine of
them were actually through six or seven of them I
believe were actually UAP related. So even though they had

(34:43):
a code for UFO, doesn't necessarily mean, we'll be associated
with a UAP event. And I thought, all right, if
I didn't have words that are direct, what are some
indirect words I could use to sort of describe what's
going on that's unusual. And I thought, let me be
bonehead simple. This will be such a simple search process

(35:04):
that anybody out there can go to the same database,
do the same sort of analysis and see if they
come up with something else. I did a single word
search for UAV. UAV is one of the terms for drones,
an unmanned aerial view that was a common acronym back
in the day. I said, all right, let me just
do a UAP search in the state of ease, like

(35:25):
four hundred UAVs. I went through every one of those.
I think it was four hundred and forty one of them.
Look through every one of them. There are maybe three
or four of them that were UAP. It said UAV.
But once I read it, it's like, this is not
a UAV that I know, including the gentleman I talked
about who had the PTSD type symptoms that was one
of the ones that was classified under UEV. And then

(35:46):
I did a search for missile again generic term. Several
hundred of them, maybe three of them were catching my attention.
One of them was New New York City. A crew
I think it was a commercial crew saw a missile
that was rounded in the front, that went up, went down,

(36:07):
and went up again, And I thought, Okay, first, how
close do you have to be or how big the
the missile have to be before we can tell that
the front of it is rounded. That's one thing. Second,
missile near New York City are two words and phrases
where alarm bills go off. This was I believe, even
even pre nine to eleven, having a missile near metropolitan

(36:30):
New York City at night, in full view of airliners
and such, where there's no military test range I know
of that does that sort of thing around New York
City that should have set off alarm bills? Somebody should
figure out is this misidentified something that's not a missile,
or is this a missile that shouldn't have been there,
or what the heck is going off?

Speaker 5 (36:50):
Yeah, but if it was a missile, it would have
had to come down somewhere.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
True, And the crew reported that it went up, went down,
then rose up again, which again is unusual for missile
ballistic missiles. They go up then they come down. A
V one type buzz bomb might go up and down.
But who does those kinds of missiles that have big
old smoke trails in the skies around America that you
know of.

Speaker 5 (37:15):
Well, could it be a UFO like what it was
back in the forties and fifties that was cigar shape.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
It could be. And unfortunately the narrative of the ASRS
was fairly short, like a paragraph or show. There was
a lot of detail that was probably there in the
original documentation of pilots entn This was just a synopsis
that ASRS put out. And because they can identify everyone
who submits something, they can always go back and talk

(37:45):
to that pilot recruit person and get further details. But
I don't know what they did in that case.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
I'm just wondering how many reports is there in the
you know, aviation market of seeing these UAPs?

Speaker 3 (38:03):
More than I anticipated? And this you gave me a
perfect entrade. On another piece of research I'm doing, there
was another database not as well known as the Aviation
Safety Reporting System. It was the you speak called the
Drone Sightings Database. I believe they changed the name to
Airport Drone database or something generic. It wasn't a formal
database that you can search online. It's basically a series

(38:25):
of spreadsheets. Every quarter they would come out with government reports,
they put out a spreadsheet. You can download the spreadsheet.
If you wanted to turn it into a searchable database,
you'd have to prod some work. But when I looked
at this these reports that were not directly made by
flight crews. What they were were reports by the Air
Traffic Organization, air traffic controllers and management of air traffic controllers.

Speaker 5 (38:49):
Now can I actually smut in there? I tell you
butt in, But you mentioned air traffic controllers. Now I
heard ruors from somebody. It used to be one, So
you got laid off recently. It said that they're terrified
to report any of that stuff.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
Well that's an interesting point because I thought to myself,
why am I seeing so many EOAP adjacent reports in
this database. Well it turns out that that particular database,
there are very specific requirements that are laid out in
the regulations that air traffic controllers have to follow. If
certain events happen, they have to be reported. For example,

(39:29):
if there's a near midair collision or an airspace violation,
that sort of thing, and in the process of reporting
this reportable event, some aspects of it don't make any
sense as a traditional aircraft. I'll give you my favorite example,
which happened just this last year. Like I said, every
quarter this database comes out. It takes about a month

(39:52):
after the end of the quarter you read the database,
or at least I read the database. So for the
fourth quarter of twenty twenty four is right the wheelhouse
of what was happening in New Jersey. And I thought, oh,
I can't wait for this quarters to come out, because
when it does, I'll see what happened in New York
and New Jersey if anything unusual showed up in the
FA database. The answer was, there wasn't anything unusual with

(40:13):
the garden variety. A drone flowed through too close to
this airport. It was a four bladed clodicopter. The descriptions
were your typical drones. There was a bunch from New Jersey,
a bunch from New York, and I did it alphabetically.
It was like, I don't know, forty to fifty of
in those two states. There was only one in between
New York and New Jersey that was New Mexico. There

(40:33):
was one report and after I got through going through
New York, New Jersey, let me read this report from
New Mexico airline is flying cruising I think at flight
level three four zero, thirty four thousand feet and they
reported seeing I AM drones in all directions, and I thought, Okay,

(40:54):
something doesn't make sense here. Just about every drone that's
out there vice fair little a few hundred or few
thousand feet above the surface to see something. They didn't
state the altitude, they just said they saw them in
all directions. I'm assuming that they're thirty four thousand feet.
It's very likely that what they were seeing were at
or above light level one eight zero eighteen thousand feet.

(41:17):
Why is that important Because if you were an aircraft
of any kind, even a drone, if you're above flight
level one eight zero, that is controlled airspace where you
have to be on an IFR flightplan, you have to
be in contact with air traffic control positive control by
ATC the whole time. So what you have here is
twenty five something flying in very controlled airspace, which is

(41:42):
a common piece of airspace. In this particular case where
planes going to the West Coast and they were not
communicating with ATC, they were not flashing the navigation lights
and anti collision lights you should see. And here's the collector.
It said it followed them for about an hour. Okay,
these aren't balloons, and these aren't satellites. Why aren't these satellites?

(42:05):
First off, the initial sighting was about nine to thirty
pm local over New Mexico. And at that point sun
it's set two hours ago. So unless the satellite was
a couple thousand miles up, there's no sunlight on it,
and all of your starlink satellites flying considerably lower than that.
That's one thing. Second, they were following them going from

(42:25):
east to the west. That will be what's called a
retrograde orbit. Most satellites go from west to the east
because we are rotates in that direction. It gives you
a little bit of you know, checking the pants when
you launch your rocket. And it's a whole lot cheaper
to launch it that way. And I don't know if
any Starlink satellites that are in retrograde orbits and following
them for an hour, it's like, all right, this is

(42:46):
not the speed of a satellite. You see the ISS
come over your house. It's over and gone in five minutes.
If you were in a jet, you couldn't chase it
because it's going fifteen thousand and seventeen thousand miles an hour.
Your jet's going eight hundred miles an hour. You wouldn't
be seeing it for an hour. You'd be seeing it
for six minutes instead of five. Yeah, now it gets better. First,

(43:06):
when I saw this, it's like, this is crazy, this
makes no sense. I look at the date. It was
about forty one days after the occurrence that I read
this report, and I went into the emergency mode. Because
the FAA typically erases air traffic control tapes after like
forty five days. That was my understanding, so I immediately
the next day made a couple of Freedom of Information

(43:28):
Act requests for air traffic control tapes from that entire
segment of flight. A couple days later, at some downtime,
I read the rest of the database. About an hour
and fifty two minutes later, over Palm Springs. Near Palm Springs,
a second airliner reported twenty five ueds EAS is rather

(43:49):
unmanned aircraft systems, which is the common term the FA.
Twenty five of these, except there were blinking red and
white lights and thought, okay, twenty five of anything flying
at night. By the way, this is December twenty first,
the Saturday night before Christmas, nearly midnight local time. There

(44:10):
are a lot of military organizations that do flight tests
out in the Western West. I used to be part
of one at did this Air Force Space. I know
that flight tests happen for all kinds of reasons. What
doesn't make what didn't make sense to me, is happening
on the weekend. Because first, a lot of civilians support
flight test activities. So unless it's a special occasion, you're
not going to have a big deal anything going on

(44:31):
on a Saturday night, especially not during a holiday week Now,
were there drones out there in the in the arsenal
that could do that sort of speed roughly through injured
sixty knots? There was no altitude mentioned, but in the
first or the second report of the drones they only

(44:53):
mentioned their altitude when my four request included, hey, what
do you know about these things and how highway they fly?
And like I said, there's only a couple of models.
I didn't say this, but there's a couple of models
in the military that I know. There are jet powered
that could do a speed roughly three inter sixty nuts
round speed. One is the Global Hawk and variations of

(45:16):
the Global Hawk, which is like a U two spy
plane without the pilot. And the other is, and I
might be getting the acronym wrong here, the RQ one
seven zero, which is a B two self bomber looking drone,
which is much smaller than the B two. There's only
about thirty of those that have been manufactured to my understanding,
and it's also jet power. There might be other get

(45:39):
power drones out there, but it's unlikely that twenty five
of them civilian in a military would be doing this
for a couple of reasons. One, total violation of FA regulations.
There would be you know what to pay for anybody
who did this. Second, it's just you know, epically not
smart to fly controlled airspace without being in contact with

(46:02):
air traffic control or any number of these.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
Yeah, but here's another one, twenty five of them, Okay,
at that at speed to have that capability, I don't
think maybe we would have that capability to put twenty
five out at one time.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
That is my feeling. And now, were these actually drones
of some kind? The two reports only reported basically lights.
They didn't report shape, they didn't report size, they didn't
report occupants, they didn't report distance from the airliners. And
by the way, through services like flight Radar twenty four

(46:38):
and flight Aware, any airliner out there is broadcasting ADSB
data which basically every second or so gives you the location, altitude,
air spree of anything that's out there. And those two
websites I mentioned aggregate all this stuff. We can go
to the website, especially flight raid or twenty four, dial
back to a particular day and time, and rerun the
tape and answer the question what other airliners were in

(47:01):
the vicinity when these two events happened. The answer about
a dozen between the two that were either in the
were in close proximity let's say ten nautical miles or so,
and pointed toward where these aircraft were. Where if there
were something in the vicinity, other airline pilots had the
potential to see it. By the way, it's a beautiful
clear night over the western US.

Speaker 5 (47:21):
I say a bunch of them didn't just didn't say anything,
that's my bet.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
And I pursued various avenues to see within industry, are
there any industry entities that might be aware of people
who reported this sort of thing. The answer is yes.
But even if they did, it's an industry entity, a
private entity, and they have all sorts of rules with
how they handle their data, and it's not the kind

(47:47):
of thing that they would release to the public. But
they would release it if the got been asked them to,
if they had the right legal reasons to do so.
So there might be information out there in places other
than the drone database of THEA, but I hadn't be
able to put my fingers on it.

Speaker 5 (48:02):
Now, when you worked at Boeing, I got a question,
because that's been pondering in my mind. If you would
have came and said, hey, look, this could have been
a UFO related Could that have affected your employment at Bullyings.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Would well, let's just say it would have affected which
department I would have been employed in. I probably would
not be in the safety engineering department for long if
I were waving that particular flag heavily. And this is
that brings up another subject back to the stigma of this. Yeah,
what is a bridge too far? Well, during the time
of Vietnam, a bridge too far would be reporting seeing

(48:43):
it off for b fifty two wing. You're not going
to make general bridge too far. In nineteen eighty six,
the japan Airlines cargo aircraft where the entire flight deck
crew saw UFOs for considerable lot of time. The captain
talked about it. Honestly, it's like, look, this is what
we saw. We had other people on the radio, this
is what's been reported by He had grounded for like

(49:05):
a year or so.

Speaker 5 (49:06):
Say, you have to get attorney and fight to get
his be able to fly again.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
If I remember right, I don't remember the details of that,
but he was unnecessarily grounded because he did his job. Now,
what's a bridge too far?

Speaker 6 (49:18):
Today?

Speaker 3 (49:20):
If you're a pilot and you see something, it's not
a bridge too far to report it because their venues
to do that. But what could affect your career and
negatively if you're open about any psychological after effects of
seeing something or experiencing something like that. Either you know,
let's say you had a physical whatever electromagnetic something did
to your body, or like the pilot I mentioned earlier,

(49:43):
there was a psychological effect not indirectly caused by it
in that. Well, again, you have anything almost hit you
in the sky, it will freak you out. Hey to
it freaked him out.

Speaker 5 (49:53):
You know, so many people say, you know, especially you
fologists I've had on the show. They keep saying that
population could handle, that UFOs and ets exist, and that
we're being visited. But that's that's just their view. I
still feel the average person, if they had an encounter,

(50:15):
it's going to mess their life up to the rest
of life.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Which gets back to what I was saying earlier about
this is a marketing challenge as well as an analysis challenge.
The marketing challenge is how do you get information to
the table so it can be analyzed so we can
actually approach this as an aviation safety.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
Okay, okay, hang on.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
There, you pigeon. Are we good?

Speaker 5 (50:44):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Well the internet kind of waked for
a second.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
Yeah, okay. Well, the the UEP community, of which I'm
a little bit familiar with, having been to contact in
the desert a couple of times and having been on
several podcasts of various types, there are certain things that
are of a concern to that community. For example, are
we alone in the universe? Is this a huge government?

(51:08):
Are these nhi? Are these ets? Those are great questions.
They're not aviation safety questions if I'm out there flying
my Assassin for fun near Edwards. But I did one
day and I thought, I'm in clear airspace. I make
a right turn and suddenly I knows and knows with
P three orion. I first thought was, how'd that P
three get there? Immediately my second thought was make a

(51:28):
right turn, because that was the standard practice of if
you see something in a head on collision, what do
you as a pilot do. You don't communicate with air
traffic control. You don't try to raise the other plan
on the radio. You're coming at them head on. You
make a right turn, and if it's that night, the lights,
the anti collision lights and other lights on the aircraft
are arranged so that if you see a red light

(51:50):
on the right, it's coming at you. Yeah, or as
much taught to me in my earliest days, red right returning,
it's coming at you. Make a right turn and they'll
make a right turn too. You'll be safe. That's a process.
It doesn't matter who was flying that other airplane. It
could have been a MiG aircraft. There's a procedure in

(52:13):
place that keeps us both safe. That's my approach. Free
weight understand them enough, characterizing enough, then you can come
up with some solid, you know, step by step memory
items to deal with this if it happens, and a
process to report it if you see its potential aviation risk,
and how can you help the industry reduce that risk.

(52:34):
You report it to certain avenues asrs at NASA being
one of them.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
Very interesting. Now I have another question for you, oh Hara,
the UAP incident. Why don't you tell the listeners about that?

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Well, this is I believe October of two thousand and
six typical dance. That's Chicago O'Hare, which is one of
the busiest airports in the world and is one of
the key pieces of aviation infrastructure for airlines in the
United States. United has a huge hub there, an American
does as well. And for whatever reason, there was something

(53:15):
hovering directly above one of the terminals. I believe it
was a terminal ce in full view of several people
on the ground, including airline personnel, ground personnel, pilots, etc.
And that it hung out for a while and it
shot straight up through the cloud deck, punched a hole
through the clouds, disappeared, didn't hurt anybody, didn't shoot any

(53:35):
laser beams something like that. This was two thousand and six,
before the era of everybody and their sister having two
phones on them at all times. So I have yet
to see a definitive clear picture that's you know, been authenticated.
Does the picture of that event, But they're pulling out
high witnesses. There's even analyzes that have been done by

(53:56):
it by an ourcap a national Gosh. I can't remember
the acronym now, but Richard Haynes as a former NASA
scientist who is one of the motive forces behind our cat.
He and a team did a varied, extensive analysis. Who
could have seen this thing? Turns out the people in
the air traffic control tower, the architecture of the Taro

(54:17):
re starts they could not see at that high enough angle.
So it made sense that they did not directly see it,
although there were air traffic control tapes of people talking
about it. But the important thing is not what happened
that day. To me, What was as important as what
happened afterwards. Nothing here it is five years after nine
to eleven, something or someone is violating the airspace over

(54:42):
one of the most important pieces of aviation and real
estate in the world. There have been organizations set up
to prevent this sort of thing. He had TSA FBIDD,
all the agentses you can think of. There was no
official statement of any kind about what this was, No explanation,
no nothing. I thought, this is crazy. Why are we

(55:04):
seeing all this texts detect the skies against nefarious characters?
This happens. They do nothing, if nothing else. You send
a clear message to a nefarious character, It's like, Wow,
all I have to do is make what I'm doing
look like at UFO, and I can do whatever I want.
They're not going to touch me.

Speaker 5 (55:21):
Very interesting. Why do you think the FAA and the
FBI refused really to investigate this.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
It's unclear if they refuse to investigate it, it is
clear that there has been no public statement about that.
And just go back to the whole Chinese balloon incident. Sure,
there was a lot of talk about that after it happened,
because it was kind of hard to hide it because
all the news channels were talking about at twenty four
to seven, but certainly years before there had been cases
of balloons and other things violating airspace, and every day

(55:53):
presumably you have folks flying a contraband into this country
for various reasons. But that's not something we're a big guest.
Snak is made out of it. You might say to yourself, well,
if cartel X y Z can do this, why don't
we just shoot them down because they shouldn't be doing that.
If we know their cartel people, let's just take them
out and keep them from doing that. Because if you
don't and nefarious character say, hey, all I have to

(56:16):
do with is make it look like a cartel aircraft
flying in some dope, They're not going to touch me.

Speaker 5 (56:23):
Very interesting. Now we got a caller, mind, if we
take a call.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
I love callers.

Speaker 5 (56:28):
Okay, who do we have out there?

Speaker 6 (56:30):
Hey?

Speaker 7 (56:30):
We got Art here?

Speaker 5 (56:31):
Hi Art? How are you doing tonight? Did you okay?

Speaker 7 (56:34):
Okay? Very very interesting? Uh subject, I'm rof. He's familiar
with Hinington Beach Boeing, which was Douglas at the time.
Over there in Orange County, you got the Seal Beach
Naval Shipyard, and then you have Boweling right there, and
right across the street you have worthy Hold the ammunition
of the ships of the you know the ammunition. And

(56:57):
then you got further up you got lost Alimados Naval
air Base. So I'm I'm looking towards this off of
where I live, and I would see crafts coming from
the ocean area south coming north across my as I'm
looking west, and I would get my binoculars and I
would see these large I would say they're military craft

(57:20):
because that's military zone area, and it would be these
little I would notice these little orbs flying across these
airlines where we want to call them airlines, jets, airplanes, helicopters.
These small orbs would go right over them and under them,
sometimes criss crossing over there, you know, in front of
them on top. I just wanted to get your opinion

(57:43):
on these kind of issues when they are getting close
to a craft. And then to three incidents where orbs
near Los ale Meedles air Base. I was right around
the corner from there and seeing these orbs and they
seem to react when you look at them, so they
stop and in they're close to the ground and very

(58:04):
like if they were because of the looking at yourself,
you know, looking at you, you know, and reacting. So
maybe my question would be, you know these things reacting
to the human contact, is there anything you know anything
about that? And why do they like to go around
these aircrafts. Are they enjoying it or are they just

(58:24):
playing around? And I'll take that off the air Thank you.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Well, thank you for that question. By the way, I
had the experience with that part of the world because
I used to be at McDonald Douglas before it was
Boeing and the early eighties, I was working down in
Huntington Beach and very close to that area. And there's
any number of reasons why you could see craft like
that flying in southern California, one of them being it's
Southern California, which is like one of the biggest concentrations

(58:50):
of aerospace technology for decades, All sorts of folks are
doing all sorts of things. Now, that said, if it's
Lucky skunk Works that's creating these things and flying them,
why would they fly them over that kind of area
For a bunch of reasons. It's a populated area, it's
a military area where serious stuff goes on. And by

(59:10):
the way, these ammunition storage areas story ammunition for the Navy. Now,
the US never confirms the denies the presence of nuclear weapons,
but given that those are weapons that the US Navy
uses and san Diego right down the road is one
of the big places where the US Navy does their business.
There's a national security interest in keeping funny business to

(59:33):
a minimum. So and answer your question, I don't know
what those orbs were. That is consistent with the big behavior.
I've seen of other cases where something like that flew
near an airliner or an aircraft. And really, you know,
the behavior what you described kind of sounds like some
of those old stories of the food fighters from World

(59:54):
War Two.

Speaker 5 (59:56):
It does, doesn't it. You know again too, why do
certain people have a tendency to notice these things the
orbs or UAPs or lights at night and other people don't.
My ideal is some people are more in tuned to
their nature itself and there maybe are looking up at

(01:00:17):
the sky where most of us how often do we
look at the sky.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
And sometimes it's the question of are you lucky? This
is something I literally saw today on x slash Twitter.
There was a NASA astronaut in the ISS who was
taking video of s thunderstorms in the US Mexico border region.
And they call it a sprite, which is a electromagnetic

(01:00:45):
d discharge kind of like lightning, but instead of going
from cloud to cloud to cloud or cloud to ground.
This goes straight up into the lower reaches of space.
Beautiful shot. And this is something where sixty years ago,
if a high flying a pilot and a military aircraft
saw this, saw this lightning type thing coming from the
top of the clouds, that could have got them grounded.

(01:01:07):
Because at the time that electromagnetic effect, which is a
natural effect, was unknown to science. It's since been studied.
As of the nineteen eighties, I think the Space Shuttle
there were quite a few experiments dealing specifically with that
that's now well understood phenomenon. And if an airline pilot
sees this and reports it, it's a known thing. So

(01:01:28):
even if that airline pilot has never seen a jet
or sprite live in living color and they write this
beautiful detailed report to NASA's ASRS, they can identify it
because it's known. That's how a lot, in my opinion,
well over ninety five percent of ue P reports in
aviation will probably be identified, either as you know, conventional

(01:01:52):
aircraft or a government project that was kind of hush
hush therefore don't worry about it, or it's a known
entity that we know about very few of them would
be unknown, and many of the unknowns, in my opinion,
would be natural phenomena that we don't understand.

Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
That makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
For example, I remember that we.

Speaker 5 (01:02:14):
Need to take a kick break. We'll be back in
five minutes and we'll continue on. We're going to find
out a lot more of what happens with UAPs, airlines,
and not just airlines, private pilots, what they have seen,
what they've gone through. We'll revi it back after the break,
So stay tuned.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Can say tod site.

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
Christ back ever.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Meaning to love every day.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
It's your ski town, just a roadway street to your comment.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
See kids to town, monital Neil, the die kids of til.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Give and take up Man.

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
Diving into the headlines, have the mysterious and unexplained. This
is the unseen news with guide ticker, where the extraordinary
is just the beginning. Unidentified flying objects continue to make
headlines around the world. Here's a quick roundup of three

(01:04:34):
countries reporting strange sightings in just the past week. In
the United States, a former Air Force fighter pilot says
he nearly collided with a glowing rectangular object at thirty
thousand feet over Wyoming. The craft had no wings, no
exhaust had moved in ways that defied known aircraft behavior. Meanwhile,

(01:04:56):
in Washington, d C. A star shaped denomally appeared on
weather radar, sparking brief panic and conspiracy chatter. Officials later
attributed it to a likely radar glitch, but some remain unconvinced.
Over in Perth, Australia, hundreds of witnesses spotted a bright,

(01:05:17):
fast moving object zigzagging across the night sky. Social media
lit up with videos showing a life that change direction sharply,
something not typical of planes, satellites or drones. Lastly, in
the remote stretches of the Sahara Desert, what looks like
a crash disc was discovered using Google Earth. The object

(01:05:39):
appears half buried in the sand, and his reignited speculation
about ancient crash sites and government cover ups. In other news,
the witch camps where hundreds of elderly women are left
to die in Ghana are making headlines. Yet again, there
are hundreds of witch camps. Those are places of red

(01:06:00):
huge four survivors accused of witchcraft. Those who survived either
go thereafter an accusation because they fear for their lives
or because they're expelled and rejected by their community. Sources
say that quote the world is indifferent to these witch
camp occupants because unlike the COVID nineteen pandemic, witchcraft accusation

(01:06:22):
does not affect the Western world, victims are mainly Africans
and non Westerners, and which persecution in Africa is not
a priority. Other insiders noted that this non interest is
a wicked position and disposition that has until recently guided
the United Nations and other international agencies. Local officials please

(01:06:45):
are getting louder though they're imploring that quote witchcraft accusation
is a wild and destructive phenomenon. The world needs to
approach which persecution in Africa with the urgency that it deserves.
All hands must be on deck to make sure witch
hunting in Africa is history by twenty thirty clothes quote.

(01:07:06):
As always, whether you're a skeptic or a believer, the
guys are staying active and on the ground. It's just
as unsettled as ever. We'll keep watching and reporting on
what comes next. So don't touch that dial. Reporting from
the night Dreams Talk of Radio Network News Room. I'm
guide ticker. Did you know you can advertise on night

(01:07:33):
Dreams Talk Radio with Gary Anderson. We're one of the
fastest growing Internet talk radio shows, reaching hundreds of thousands
of engaged listeners who are passionate about the paranormal, the unexplained,
and everything in between. Whether you are promoting a product, service,
or book, Night Dreams Talk Radio connect you with an

(01:07:56):
audience that's curious, loyal, and ready to to take action.
Don't miss this opportunity to get your message heard. Email
us today at night Dreams Talk Radio at gmail dot
com and let's create the perfect advertising plan for you

(01:08:22):
night Dreams Talk Radio at the show they warned you
about and for damn good reason.

Speaker 5 (01:08:40):
And we are back, and I'd tell you we're gonna
die really deep and with Todd more about all these
UAPs and how different agencies respawn. We're back.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
Don glad to be here.

Speaker 5 (01:08:56):
Okay, So now going into other things about well, what's
happening with aircraft and the safety aspect of it. Is
there any one UFO case it stands out in your
mind that is really credible and maybe dangerous.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
I can't think of one that's both credible and dangerous
that deals with large airliners. The closest thing that comes
to one that I think is a great example of
how they should be treated was actually the when we
mentioned earlier the JL cargo event, and I believe it
was nineteen eighty six over Alaska, where there was a
sighting they was seen whatever, it was a group of

(01:09:41):
entities maneuvering near the aircraft, not in a dangerous way,
but there was coordination between the crew on the ground,
air traffic control on the ground, and allegedly also other
assets in Alaska that dealt with this, and after the
fact there was actually analysis that was taking place and
share with let's say an agent of government that wanted

(01:10:03):
to have all the information that was in a briefing
and take it back to Washington. Fortunately, the FA official
who gave that briefing had material that was not in
the briefing room and he's been sharing that ever since.
So approaching this is not going to be any one entity.
It's not going to be just the pilots or just
air traffic Control or the FAA. There might have to

(01:10:25):
be other involvement in this. For example, if this were
seen as a legitimate issue, legitimate risk, it would be
looked at and studied by people outside of aviation. The
same kinds of people who for years hone their craft
on how do we take humongous amounts of data about
aircraft and their performance and their crews, and somehow or

(01:10:47):
another out of that come out with systematic ways slowly
but surely reduce the risk of flying, which has been
happening for decades. In earnest going to be one of
these people. Yes, it's safer than ever. Let's just put
it this way. When we were younger, in the nineteen
seventies and eighties, there might be three or four major
airliner crashes per year showing up in the news. Fast

(01:11:11):
forward to now. Obviously we had the event in Washington,
DC that made our collision. There had not been a
large scale loss of life in an airliner crash in
the United States for that since two thousand and nine.
Shortly after the Selly event, there was a crash in
upstate in New York near a Buffalo. That was the
last time you have a full airliner full of passengers killed. Well,

(01:11:31):
it's sixteen years almost, and the previous sixteen year period
wasn't so great. The next sixteen year period will probably
look like the period we have now. The risk are
going to be substantially the same. The level of those
risks will reduce because, as Moore is understood about all

(01:11:53):
the things that go into airplanes not flying safely, changes
will happen from training to operations, to regulations, to oversight
to even the Internet. As much as I might pull
my hair, it's a little left to it at some
of the antics people do when they talk about aviation

(01:12:14):
safety online, doing things for clicks rather than for knowledge.
The fact is the public is much more keenly aware
of issues than they ever were. Small issues that would
escape notice of the media or the government can become
big enough issues to be addressed, and I think UAP
is it going to be a classic example of that.

(01:12:36):
If we did not have the Internet, if we did
not have ways for people inside the business like myself
to reach an audience like I'm doing right now, the
likelihood that there would be action on a federal level
to actually do something to change definitions, to enhance databases,
to have assets this was. Likelihood of that happening would

(01:12:57):
be so much less if it were not for this
met we're on right now now.

Speaker 5 (01:13:02):
You created a UAP reporting tracking system based on NASA
a ACRS program.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
We actually that's not mine, that's that's NASA's the thing.
They invented that back in the nineteen seventies. I use it,
I analyze it, but it's NASA who is For years
have collected roughly two million, two million reports from people,
and to this day they say that the identity of
those people who have submitted those reports have not been

(01:13:30):
violated because they have a system in place that keeps
people's privacy safe when they reports something that could literally jeopardize.

Speaker 5 (01:13:39):
Your career, you know, again to how about these UFO
reporting centers and stuff. I know people that you know fly.
I have another acquaintance that flies a helicopter for a
living and he's supposedly back about four or five years ago,
had to encounter and he reported it to one of
those and it got back to them lawyer. So I mean, well, it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:03):
Happens on who you report it to if you do
with ASRS. Again, without going to great detail, NASA is
running this because FA wanted to have a party that
was respected that was not then to take reports in
because one of the deals with as your essidens. Let's
say you do it for the reason that you had
an accidental violation of a regulation which is actually most

(01:14:25):
of the ASRS reports you're supposed to be at five
thousand feet air traffic controls, they go to five thousand.
You're acidentally at six thousand feet ten minutes. If you
self report and the only way the FA finds out
about it is through that database, you will not be sanctioned.
So there is an incentive for people to self report
on accidental violations to heat themselves out of trouble, which

(01:14:48):
is one of the beautiful things about that database. Now
EUAP reports and other safety issues they can be reported
as well. They have nothing to do with airspace violation,
but the same protection of privacy remains. If they do
the report, they will not put the airline name, they
will not put the tail number, they will not put
the pilot's name in that report. You know.

Speaker 5 (01:15:08):
I think what happened too is if you go there's
a lot of UFO reporting centers or place with that,
and again, if you go onto one of those and
you give all your information, you could leak.

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
Out absolutely and that's the hazard of those. Now, one
of my favorites is something called the National UFO Reporting
Stone has been run by Peter Davenport for decades.

Speaker 5 (01:15:31):
Oh yeah, I know, Peter, it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
Has and it's a great database, fantastic. I've used it
myself to sort of get an understanding of this. But
the danger of anything that's privately run is once Peter
is no longer able willing to control that, where does
the data go? Where do all those contact emails go?
Who could possibly use that for whatever purpose?

Speaker 5 (01:15:53):
Well, you know, I'm going to jump in here. You know,
they could get hacked and not even realize it. My
show has been hacked because we run you know, our
own servers and stuff. We've been hacked a couple of
times where they started downloading information, also eliminating some of
our shows that we had, you know, saved up on
the computer. And that can happen too. So they might

(01:16:17):
think their system was secure from getting hacked into, but
you don't know, maybe the government even could be hacking
into it and you know, downloading what they have, and.

Speaker 3 (01:16:27):
Not to mention disgruntle employees or contractors who want to
get back at you for some reason or another. So yeah,
the private databases, of which there are several out there,
I have some issues with them that have nothing to
do with that. One of the issues I had with
some of the private QAP databases that are out there,
is they're not telling you exactly how they're dealing with things.

(01:16:49):
I'm not saying they should reveal the actual records, things
as simple as what definitions are you using? And even
something as simple as what is the UAP? What is
the definition of UAP? The FA does not happen on
the Department of Defense and the Intelligence community had one,
but that is optimized for their uses. It's not optimized

(01:17:11):
for aviation safety uses. So and if these databases have
a definition, great, why don't we Why don't we also
sit down together and reason together and figure out, hey,
does your definition make more sense of my definition? But
that hasn't happened yet.

Speaker 5 (01:17:26):
It's the FAA. There can current system and their policy.
Is it really enough? I mean I don't think it is.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
The current policy is frankly in adequate. There's actually specific
advice given by the FA saying basically, if you see UFO,
you can do one of two things. Reported to civilian
Reporting agency and they specifically mentioned the National UFO Reporting
Center or to local law enforcement. Now the latter part

(01:17:58):
is laughable because let's im flying my assessment over the
Bay Area and I see something going out toward the northeast.
There are three or four counties in the state of California,
of course several cities, and I don't know exactly where
it was. So should I call up all the non
emergency numbers for those law enforcement agencies and say, Hey,
this is Todd Curtis calling. I think I saw a UFO.

(01:18:18):
If your vicinity click, they just hang up to my face.

Speaker 5 (01:18:21):
They don't take it serious, So it's.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
Not it's not in their wheelhouse. The federal government controls
the sky, but that you fly something.

Speaker 5 (01:18:31):
What's crazy? Though? After a refers if you have a report,
they refer it to the UFOL Reporting Center Davenports. Okay,
that is so ludicrous. In this date in technology, they
should be tracking all this stuff and and diving deep

(01:18:53):
into it now, not here's the number you can call
and here's the organization to call. That tells me they're
just blowing it off.

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
Again. Once more about Peter Davenborn. He's done great work
for decades. His database is a fantastic place, but it
should not be your first stop if you have a
UAP report. In my opinion, the best first stop is
the NASA database. Why even if they don't put it
in their public database, they have a form you can

(01:19:24):
download that asks you questions, now, what did you see,
how'd you see a name, place, et cetera. If you
sit down and write out what happened, get your thoughts together,
get your facts together, put it on paper or whatever
you use the days electronically, you have that for your
own use. If it turns out there's another database else

(01:19:44):
elsewhere that will do you right by your stuff. Great,
take what you started with with ASRS, with MASA and
use it elsewhere. Even if you don't tell a single person,
this could be potentially, whether you know it or not,
a traumatic event. You just experience something that exists in theory.
Suddenly it's right there in front of your face and

(01:20:05):
you're dealing with it. Maybe you're not willing or able
to tell it, even to your immediate family or to
your coworkers. And if you keep it all bottled up,
how's that going to be healthy for your mental health?
Putting it on, putting it down, putting it to the side,
maybe coming back to it later.

Speaker 6 (01:20:21):
It is good for you.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
So go to the SRS website, even if you don't
have a report right now. Go check it out, download
the form, See how they do things, and see how
could help you if you're in a situation like that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:35):
You know, again, have you talked to many pilots that
have had any type of pressure put on them after
they said I saw a UAP.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
I had not. Well, I've talked with pilots and people
in the aviation community. But there's all other kinds of
pressure that could happen. This is just one of them.
I mean, there's all kinds of things that could instantly
end your career as airline pilot. Let's say an ancillary effective.
You having a traumatic experience, you start self medicating. There

(01:21:07):
was a report made the news about a year or
so ago a pilot who was taking I think magic
mushrooms deal self medicating whatever. He freaks out in the
cockpit and tries to shut down the engines. Needless to say,
his career is over and I'm not sure if he's
going to be in prison or not, but he had
serious issues that he tried to self treat. It didn't
end well. No, I'm not saying that up encounters are

(01:21:30):
going to be a similar thing, but this is the
kind of thing if it happens, keeping quiet about it
to yourself is probably the least healthy thing I'm doing.

Speaker 5 (01:21:39):
You know, people have, you know, thoughts that you know,
maybe surface a year later, two years later, and they
can't handle it. I know, when I was in Vietnam,
i came back, it was a few years later, and
then all of a sudden, all these thoughts kept coming
back in my mind and things like that. So even
when a person sees you a UFO, flying disc, flying saucer,

(01:22:02):
whatever they are tonight, you know again, you know, we've
seen them on movies and TVs since the early fifties,
but yet to see one in real life makes you realize,
you know, there's not just the UFO. You realize there's
more life out there than we ever thought there could be.

(01:22:23):
So many people todd or so naive they think that
we are the only living, intelligent creatures. No other life
exists anywhere. I feel sorry for him, and I just
think about maybe so far technology wise, you know, there's
between three hundred and four hundred billion Earth like planets

(01:22:49):
in our solar system, and that you think about that,
what's the odds are of race being so advanced where
they are having you UAPs UFOs and coming here and
visiting this maybe as amusement park.

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
Amusement park, graduate school project, or in arrest area for
them to dump their waste, whatever that waste may be.
But you know, bringing this up brings up what I
call the Google factor in that part of the marketing
effort of the aviation safety and UEP is focus on

(01:23:29):
the aviation safety aspects of it. Now, most of the
things that are seen are probably ultimately identifiable as a
natural phenomenon or something else, but a certain percentage of
them have such bizarre effects in it that they cannot
be anything that we understand as a normal, conventional event. Now,
all the UFO stories we've seen and heard over the years,

(01:23:52):
things happen, I had a voice in my head speaking
to me, etc. Let's say you're a pilot or a
flight crew member or cabinet attendant and you see something
out there and you have voices speaking in your head.
It's okay right now to talk about I'm there, I
look out, I see this thing. It's this size, to shape,
this color, it's a bridge too far to including there

(01:24:14):
by the way it spoke to me and told me this,
that and the other I'm not saying that's ever happened,
but if you have something that is in the googoo
side of things, it'll be hard to swallow. Even for
those people in aviation who accept UAPs as an aviation
safety risk, they will not necessarily accept all the other
things that have allegedly gone along with some of these

(01:24:37):
UAP reports.

Speaker 5 (01:24:38):
I don't even think it has to be in the
aviation aviation industry. I think anybody if they start saying, well,
I seeing something they were talking to me in my head,
the first thing you got to say, well, maybe in
your mind they need medication or they're taking too much.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
So I mean the more practical side, Yes, you've heard
things in your head. But sir or man, you must understand,
in this organization, in this day and age, you don't
talk about the things inside of your head. Talk around
the things that we're sitt inside of your head. Mention
it indirectly, but not directly. Indirectly, You're okay, directly you
might have to get another job.

Speaker 5 (01:25:18):
Yeah. The other thing, how about these black projects out there?
You know, I think we're still more advanced in aircraft
than the general population knows, and maybe when people see
them Oh my god, here's the UFO and it's one
of our own, you know, something that they're working on.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
That could be a total possibility, And if it is,
that's a good thing. But if there is a process
in place where these things can be systematically identified, I'm
sure the FA and the government could work out something
where it's like, Okay, you reported this, we understand what
it is. You'll have to trust us on this. We're
not trying to pull the wool over your eyes. But
this is a specific project which has not acknowledged to

(01:26:01):
the public, and it has to stop here. What shouldn't
be done is what was done by the White House
Press Secretary shortly after the event with the the mid
air collision of the jet over DC. There was also
a statement at that same time saying something like if
I got the dates right, yes, the President has spoken

(01:26:24):
to people about this. Everything you saw in New Jersey
and New York was an FA program that was approved.
Nothing is seen here. Move along. I thought, okay, this
doesn't make sense on two levels. Rarely are I suppot
to speak about anything political. I'm a policy person, I'm
a regulatory person. I'm not a politics person. But the
fact of the matter is the New York and New
Jersey events happened during the Biden administration. If it were

(01:26:47):
approved by the FAA, it would have been approved under
the Biden administration on the face of it. Approving of
something like that without telling air traffic Control, without even
telling your own FA boss that you're allowing drones to
fly willy nilly all over secure places in New Jersey
and New York and not telling anybody. That is grounds

(01:27:08):
for let's just say, either Fort Leavenworth or expulsion from
your job. That is so graphic, outrageously not in keeping
with how the fa does things. It's not funny. Also,
if you apply for any sort of exemption to fly
your drone, there's a process for that. All those exemptions
are part of the public record. Okay, if somebody approved this,

(01:27:30):
where's the documentation, which office, which person? If there's no documentation,
If there's no office and there's no person associating with
it in a bureaucuracy like the FAA, did it even happen?
And if you're going to give that excuse, get one
that's more plausible than that one.

Speaker 5 (01:27:47):
Well, maybe they were trying to not us, but them
up there trying to send a message to us, because
I mean, when you think about that many drones that
you know it reported, It's the difference between Kmart or
not Kmart Walmart you know, delivering or Amazon with their drone,

(01:28:10):
you know, delivering something or a military doing that in
commercial airspace over cities over a thing like it doesn't
make logical sense, not at all.

Speaker 3 (01:28:22):
Over the mispronounced I might be mispronouncing it the Picatanny
arsenal in New Jersey, which is like a military arsenal,
or weapons and ammunition or develop you have something violating
that airspace. Come on, well, even Walmart's not that crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:28:35):
I really my feeling that was real, and it was
covered up by saying it was drones, as it took
them a long time to come out even saying it
was drones.

Speaker 3 (01:28:44):
And in that same statement, they didn't blame the Biden
administration for being crazy or and doing this and not
telling anybody. They take every opportunity to raak the Biden
administration over the coals, And if they truly had done this,
I would have been there helping them to rake them
over the calls. But they didn't say that. In my opinion,
it didn't happen the way they said it.

Speaker 5 (01:29:06):
That's so heavy too. Now our time was virtually up.
Is there anything you want to say to the listeners,
any warnings or any anything you want to say? Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
Well, first, I want to thank the listeners for taking
the time listening to me, and I hope that some
of this was illuminating to you. And I will invite
you to go to the podcast that I had with
two of my fellow aviation safety people on Flight Safety Detectives.
There are these three or four shows where we talked
about UAP specifically and the event I told you about

(01:29:39):
earlier with the glider pilot that was literally our highest
number of views ever in the nearly three hundred episodes
we've done in that podcast. And where can they find
it Flight Safety Deetectives dot com and it's on YouTube
as well as on our website.

Speaker 5 (01:29:56):
Great, Hey, I want to thank you so much for
coming on, you know, for the July we you know,
I figured, hey, no one's gonna be listening, but we
ended up with some people on chat and I think
it's gonna be really a really hard hitting show.

Speaker 3 (01:30:09):
And I want to thank you to be here for
you and my dogs are happy that they didn't bark
too much.

Speaker 5 (01:30:16):
Actually, I was shocked they behaved. If it was my dogs,
you wouldn't hear me, you would hear the dogs.

Speaker 3 (01:30:21):
I barely have any treats left.

Speaker 5 (01:30:23):
But yeah, that work well, Todd. You have a great weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:30:28):
Will you you too as well?

Speaker 5 (01:30:30):
And you know, if anything interesting comes up, get a
hold of my producer and we'll get you on. How's
that we'll do? Okay, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
All right, you're welcome.

Speaker 5 (01:30:40):
Yeah, JZ, what do you got to plan this weekend?

Speaker 6 (01:30:45):
Well, this weekend, I'm gonna go out and I am
going to catch that Oh there's an eight pounder there
that keeps laughing at me. I want to bring him in.

Speaker 5 (01:30:52):
Just yeah, but you're gonna catch it. Tell everybody, what
are you going to do when you catch it.

Speaker 6 (01:30:56):
I'm gonna catch it. I'm not gonna proby, but I'm
gonna put back. But he's going to be like it's
going to be like an abduction. He's gonna go back
and tell everybody, Hey, this strange guy took me into
this weird area, a certain place I've never seen before,
different world. Then they threw me back.

Speaker 5 (01:31:12):
Well that's good of you.

Speaker 6 (01:31:14):
Yeah, yeah, I'm traumatizing. I'm gonna traumatize a fish. You're
gonna have a big hole in his lip.

Speaker 5 (01:31:21):
Yeah, that fish was saying hi, next time I see you.
You know, people don't realize fish are Actually I'm starting
to realize life out there is more intelligence then we
give them credit for. I have a GoFish. The other
dude died. It's thirteen inches long, and and I'm telling

(01:31:43):
you it's intelligent. I mean, you know it's in my
living room. It watches me, it watches TV.

Speaker 6 (01:31:52):
What does it hope you? Hopefully you don't put any
fishing shows on traumatizing?

Speaker 5 (01:31:57):
Yeah, well, you know he's died or come close to
three times in the last week and a half. I
mean it was the other day it was floating belly
up and we all, it's dead. So we went and
get the net to take it out, and then it
started swimming. And then the next day I figured, okay,
I wake up, it's going to be dead. It was live,
back normal, and then a couple days later it is

(01:32:18):
back dying again. I don't know, but I'll tell you what.
A goldfish that size eats a lot of food.

Speaker 6 (01:32:26):
Yeah, he might not be getting enough oxygen while he's
being slugged down like that.

Speaker 5 (01:32:30):
If anybody wants to call in, we'll take one more
call in before you wrap it up. We're going to
have a couple more shows this month, and then I'm
taken off from the twenty fifth all the way through
the first of September. I have to have some surgery done,
actually two types of surgeries done, and we're going to
come back with a new format. Hope you like the

(01:32:52):
beginning of the show because now we're not running you know,
the ads and stuff at the beginning of the show
where we kind of speeded things up on the news.
Now at the top of the hour, I hope you
like that. And you know, we got a lot of
people still on chat, like Old Car and the Woodridge
wood Writers. Who do we got out there real quick?

Speaker 6 (01:33:14):
Well, you got wood Writer, DG, you got metrotron power,
you got we are DNA. Rory's out there, Hi, Rory, Yeah,
Art course he's out there. There was a couple of
ladies they've seen all of his fever music is out there.
MC marty is out there. December GM of course, the

(01:33:39):
Barb's out there somewhere, and a few other people, a
bunch of people listening on chat, but it's not all
of them are common anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:33:46):
Yeah. Well, you know, what can I say? I think
it was a good show tonight.

Speaker 6 (01:33:51):
It was really good. Todd is very He's very good
in his field what he does and research it. It's
an important field because you know how much of this
goes on gear that doesn't get reported, you touched on it.
It's just just the way it is, you know. And
there is dangers, whether it be whether these craft are
ets or a human or a natural phenomena or maybe

(01:34:12):
all the above. There's definitely dangers when they're coming close
to somebody's flying a plane, maybe even a seven two
hundred people in it.

Speaker 5 (01:34:21):
Well, you know that drone thing back when Biden was president.
You know again, they never came out and said, oh
they finally came out and said something about drones. But
you know, here's the whole point. It doesn't make logical sense.
I mean, why would there be they said they were
trying to something, doing something that didn't make any logical sense.

(01:34:45):
Why would they send that many drones out in airspace
which could have created you know, a fatal air accident. Yeah,
it was a plane hitting one. It doesn't make sense
to me, does and you can look this up. The
funniest thing I redundant thing I've seen. When that whole

(01:35:05):
thing was going on, there was a politician I can't
remember which seed or whatever it was, but was he
I believe he was from New Jersey in the Congress
in Congress.

Speaker 6 (01:35:15):
Yeah, and they said, you know, why aren't you shooting
these down coming in you know, no fly zones? And
it was near Christmas and he said, well, they could
be Amazon drones or Walmart drnes.

Speaker 5 (01:35:25):
We don't want to.

Speaker 6 (01:35:26):
Shoot down their drones, say And the guy another guy
was he said on off the side, we didn't know
you took so much care and too you know their drones.
God forbid you shoot him down and to a n
new and a new fly zone.

Speaker 5 (01:35:39):
Yeah, well that makes no sense because some of it
was over military base. Yeah and yeah, and it was
like came over it. They didn't even try to intercept
it do anything. That makes me wonder why they didn't
do it.

Speaker 6 (01:35:54):
Well, that tells me they already knew what they were
and are keeping it close to the chest. Or otherwise
is why would how do you let something get in
these airspaces, military or wherever. You know, that's not gonna happen.
They're gonna get shot down.

Speaker 5 (01:36:08):
Well, they're not gonna shoot you know how many drones
they were a bunch of them. Yeah, and for two nights.
You think they're gonna sit there and shoot them all down?
That's gonna ask people are gonna ask more questions if
that happened, they're gonna wonder, well, why are we shooting
these down? I mean, the reason why they didn't shoot

(01:36:29):
them down because they didn't want to alarm the public.
You know, they look at as a sheep.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
You know that.

Speaker 6 (01:36:38):
What did you say?

Speaker 5 (01:36:39):
Hey, they look at the population as sheep. The government does, gotcha?

Speaker 7 (01:36:46):
Yea?

Speaker 5 (01:36:46):
So they sat there and announced that ye had these
were you know, enemy you know, drones or they're not
going to ever say they would off world. So you
know they're gonna in this case the where they couldn't
shoot it down, the only thing is to ignore it.

Speaker 6 (01:37:04):
Now. Or they could have been drones that were made
from reverse technology by humans and taking them out for
you know, blow the dust.

Speaker 5 (01:37:12):
Why you wouldn't do it over a populated area, would you?

Speaker 6 (01:37:16):
Who knows what they meant?

Speaker 5 (01:37:17):
I would go over Montana, Idaho, Nevada, places like the
Arizona places out there, where they could run them and
test them and do whatever. You certainly wouldn't do it
over a population area. That's like, you know what, you
go into a mall, shopping mall and you rob a

(01:37:38):
banket's in it, all these people around, You're not going
to do that the same way, this doesn't make sense.
You would not have all these drones if you were
running some secret program over a hell populated the area.

Speaker 6 (01:37:53):
Maybe they just wanted to see what psychologically what happened,
because they can always just say.

Speaker 5 (01:37:58):
I don't buy that. I actually think something strange was
going on.

Speaker 6 (01:38:03):
Well, whatever it is, we don't know, we probably will
never know.

Speaker 3 (01:38:06):
I know.

Speaker 5 (01:38:07):
Anybody want to call and debate that with me, Well,
you can certainly go as to call. But again, you know,
I just think that we are being lied to. Look
at Congress. What's going on with Congress right now? You
know they still the scuttle. But if you go on TikTok,
oh my God, or some of these podcasts out there,
they're just spewing bullshit. S think I needed while new boots,

(01:38:34):
because I tell you what they somebody comes up with
a story that they probably generated off of AI and
then are spreading it like it's real. And then people
are then oh god, so oh he had it on
a show. Now that's going good, be a thing for
my show. And then everybody's copying each other. It's getting crazy.

(01:38:57):
I mean, you don't see this in Bigfoot, you don't
see this in other their things. But uphology because we're
not getting answers, people are now creating it, creating stories
as real.

Speaker 6 (01:39:13):
Yeah, listeners playing that out there and then don't forget Also,
there are so many shows out there. All they do
is react and comment on other shows. That is so overdone, right,
I mean it's too much.

Speaker 3 (01:39:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:39:29):
I like if people don't like the way I interview,
I interview like old school because I know old you know.
I do this show out of the nursing home, happy,
happy nursing home. Do you believe that?

Speaker 4 (01:39:46):
Well?

Speaker 6 (01:39:46):
Why would you lie? Well?

Speaker 5 (01:39:49):
Why not? I could be like a congressman or one
of these people whistleblowers. They lie, they get away with it,
they make money. No, I'm not in a nursing home yet,
but one of these days, just one of these days.
But no, really, you know that's another thing. These people
make a lot of money spreading their ps, and then

(01:40:12):
then when things simmered down and people kind of like
lost interest in that particular person, they come up with
another good one and then they track some new people.
So they got more people, and they got more chit
chin coming into their bank account. That's what it comes
down to.

Speaker 6 (01:40:30):
Yeah, it's a whole cycle. You get new ones that
come in, and then it goes around and get other
ones come on, then a new subject, and then somebody
else comes on. Well yeah I've seen that or I
heard this, and she said, and she said, and that
it's just around and around we go.

Speaker 5 (01:40:46):
Well, you know, he said, she said, what comes out
of it is nothing. But the point is what we
try to do on this show is bring guests on
and you know, let you make the decision, the listener
if you believe what they're saying or not. But I'm
certainly not going to bring people on that are all
hyped up on mushrooms.

Speaker 6 (01:41:06):
Yeah yeah, not even magic ones, just stupid ones. Yeah,
I don't know, we're not going to talk about other shows.
And just I don't understand those shows that talk about
other shows.

Speaker 5 (01:41:18):
Well, they've sure have been talking about me lately. What
would Well, they've been saying that, you know that nobody
listens to our show. And I'll be honest with you.
If nobody is listening, why are we close to three
hundred and twenty thousands describers on YouTube and over half
a million plus on the apps at any given time.

(01:41:42):
I guess nob nobody's listening to us.

Speaker 6 (01:41:44):
Huh, Well, seventy four thousand listened to the last show
and that was just on one app.

Speaker 5 (01:41:49):
Yeah that's just one one. It was a half a
million on the other. Right, Yeah, well, nobody listens to us.

Speaker 6 (01:41:56):
No, maybe they just watch us.

Speaker 5 (01:41:58):
I would think something is strange if I only twenty
eight thousand subscribers after about eight years, I'll tell you that.

Speaker 6 (01:42:05):
You actually had twenty eight thousand subscribers in a twenty
day period.

Speaker 5 (01:42:08):
I know, crazy, isn't it?

Speaker 6 (01:42:11):
That is that speaks Williams. We're always trying to better
and improve the show and not worry about other people
on their shows.

Speaker 5 (01:42:19):
Well, the question who do we have next week?

Speaker 6 (01:42:22):
We got two quidcasts. No, we got two guests from now.

Speaker 5 (01:42:25):
I just said that we have two great guests.

Speaker 6 (01:42:29):
Oh you said great. I'm sorry it's king across as
something else. But anyway, we do have two great guests Gary.
The first one is mister Ted Hooter. He's coming back on.
He's been on before. He is the well is he
the owner of the manager of the flight Museum.

Speaker 5 (01:42:42):
He's the well, one of the high ups the Seattle
Flight Museum right right, And we're going to be talking
about old aircraft from when that first started flying to
well the most current aircraft. And he got some beautiful
planes down there.

Speaker 6 (01:43:01):
I was just gonna say that I've seen some of
the pictures. That's amazing. Yeah, he's always good when he
comes on. So and listen. That's next Thursday, July tenth.

Speaker 5 (01:43:11):
But wait, wait a minute, but wait, we're also going
to be during this show, we're going to be showing
pictures of the Flight Museum and a whole bunch of planes.

Speaker 6 (01:43:20):
Yeah. So I was touching on the pictures that from
that place. Is amazing, some of the pictures he has.

Speaker 5 (01:43:27):
And then else who do we have.

Speaker 6 (01:43:29):
We're gonna have mister doctor Gregory Rogers come on now.
He is a former NASA flight surgeon of thirty years. Uh, listen,
he has got some stuff. You met this guy's bio
is asbout as long as the road from here to Jersey.
He hits long. He's did everything, amazing man, amazing things

(01:43:50):
and accomplishments he has done. But he has seen some
stuff Gary thirty years ago that well.

Speaker 5 (01:43:57):
How about how about a UFO up close?

Speaker 6 (01:44:01):
And you know what he saw on the UFO up close.

Speaker 5 (01:44:06):
When he was with NASA.

Speaker 6 (01:44:08):
Yeah, you know what, he's the you know what kind
of insignia?

Speaker 5 (01:44:11):
Yeah, the US Air Force.

Speaker 6 (01:44:13):
Yeah, that was thirty years ago. So how far we
come now? Think about that?

Speaker 5 (01:44:19):
And you know he also again as a surgeon flight
surgeon for NASA, he knew some very famous pilots are astronauts.

Speaker 6 (01:44:30):
I'm sorry, Oh yeah, he's got pictures with him and
Buzz and well, yeah, with a lot of them. You
know another thing that a lot of people do not know.
I really didn't realize this too until I talked to
the gentleman.

Speaker 7 (01:44:42):
He is.

Speaker 6 (01:44:43):
He does everything a pilot does. He has to be
able to do get in every one of those different
planes and jets and fly them and know how to
fly them to be able to evaluate whether a pilot
is able to fly with a certain injury or it
Because say, you couldn't lift your arm this and like
a certain scenarios and helicopter takes off. If you can't

(01:45:04):
lift your on that high to flip something, you could
blow up or crash or it's you know, there's a
lot of technical stuff that goes into this that I
didn't realize. So he's a very smart guy. Has to
pretty much wear all the hats there to be able
to evaluate all these pilots.

Speaker 5 (01:45:21):
So it's going to be a really good thing. We're
going to be talking about UAPs, NASA, the astronauts and
maybe we can get out of them because a couple
of astronauts have come forward through the years and said
they had encounters while they're in their capsule of UAPs

(01:45:41):
just right out the window of their capsule.

Speaker 6 (01:45:46):
Yeah. Boy, there's been a few of those scenarios and
reports very well, a lot of good stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:45:52):
I am.

Speaker 6 (01:45:53):
I'm thrilled to having him come on because he's a
very nice guy and he's letting it all out there.

Speaker 5 (01:45:58):
Yeah, and then it's gonna be great show again. Everybody
out there, please give us the thumbs up if you
like the show tonight, and you know, leave a comment
because our sponsors look at that. That is very important.
Without sponsors, we couldn't do the show. That's simple as
that isn't that jac it is?

Speaker 6 (01:46:17):
So make sure, yeah, definitely go back and leave a
comment on how well you like the show, and definitely
subscribe in hit the thumbs up.

Speaker 5 (01:46:24):
Yeah, hit that bell too for you get notified. Well, everybody,
I want to thank you so much. And now you're
gonna hear some commercials. We're doing them at the very end.

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Speaker 2 (01:50:49):
All the night Dreamers tugging a night garry on the radio,
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(01:51:09):
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Speaker 4 (01:51:25):
And once again we have a listener letter. This one
is from David Brooks of Minnesota, and he writes, I
recently tuned into your show featuring guest Paul Wallace, and
I just wanted to say how absolutely fascinating I found
the entire conversation. Paul is such an insightful and compelling guest,

(01:51:45):
and the topics you both explored truly captivated me. What
stood out most was the thought provoking conversation around ancient
civilizations and the presence of extraterrestrial influence throughout human history.
Made a powerful point when he said that disclosure has
already happened thousands of years ago. That really stuck with me.

(01:52:09):
If we ignore the truths buried in our past, then
we were essentially choosing to live in ignorance. The conversation
about the pyramids and other ancient structures was equally riveting.
It's incredible to think about the advanced knowledge these early
cultures possessed. And the segment on gold and silver, who

(01:52:29):
was a real eye opener. Like Matty, I assumed gold
was mostly for jewelry, but learning about its uses in medicine, electronics,
and beyond really broadened my understanding. Overall, I found this
show with Paul Wallace to be one of the best
I've heard in a long time.

Speaker 5 (01:52:47):
We thank you for saying that.

Speaker 4 (01:52:49):
Gary's knowledge and the depth of the conversation reminded me
why I tune in, especially when compared to shows like
Coast to Coast. There's just a different level of inside here. Oh,
we really thank you for saying that too. David's note
concludes by saying, thank you for continuing to bring such
thoughtful and eye opening content to your listeners. Sincerely, David Brooks, Minnesota. Now,

(01:53:14):
if you have some feedback you'd like to give us,
maybe tell us a story about an encounter, drop us
an email right now at night Dreams Talk Radio at
gmail dot com, and who knows, maybe one day.

Speaker 6 (01:53:27):
In the very near future.

Speaker 4 (01:53:28):
Your letter will be shared with everyone right here on
the radio