NOLUT JUNE 24 Monthly Show - Sponsored by Dean Wilson Family Funeral Directors 110624

Millwall No One Likes Us Talkin Monthly Show, hosted by Myles Thornton with former Lion Phil Coleman and Ted ‘The Famous’ Robinson. 

Myles welcomed Phi and Ted to the June Monthly show.

They discussed:

• The need to get the Football Governance Bill over the line and canvas MPs to support its urgent implementation;
• The impact of Dementia in football and a question of care for those suffering within the game by former Lion Bryan King;
• Three significant departures within the club's management, two departures from the first-team playing staff, and young players departing the U21s and Academy; 
• The appointment of Joe Gallen and Mark Fairbrother; and
• Playing staff needs for the forthcoming season.

Music and Audio credits:
https://www.FesliyanStudios.com Background Music
https://www.maritimeradio.co.uk/ Background Music and Reports

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Hi, Bethany Mantalo. Here youhave joined us for the magnificent monthly Millwall
podcast, which features thoughts from thepanel about what affects the beautiful game and
Millwell enjoy. Hello everyone, andwelcome to June's and No One Likes Us
Talking monthly show. I'm your host, Mars Thornton and with meter No One

(00:22):
Likes Us talking team the former linePhil Coleman and the man that thoroughly celebrates
every Millwall game apparently Ted Robinson.Not everybody likes them, but they don't
care even in fil and Ted,how are you worth? He who don't

(00:42):
feel? Is that true? Youthoroughly celebrate every mill game? I'll tell
you what, myles, There'll bea few people that sit around me that
would say or don't celebrate now andagain because there's been a well, as
we always know following Millwall, there'sbeen occasions we're not to celebrate, if
you know what I mean. ButI tried the best to make it,

(01:02):
make the best of it, mate, wherever the game may be. Firstly,
then how are you both? Obviously, how we've been up to since
there's the season ended. I've kindof found it quite boring to Phil,
what about you? Not really,I know you're looking at it. I
know you're looking forward to England Englandgames. Uh No, I like the

(01:23):
break. I always switched off whenwe finished our last game and the manager
said, you're you're only I wasaway and I like to switch off.
And it was normally six weeks.He didn't touch a ball, he didn't
do anything. He just kept yourselfticking over. So this this time is
cricket. I've been watching sport.I've been up watching local rugby league games

(01:44):
and playing sport on TV from Formulaone to I mean cycling that I watched
One Man and his Dog, tobe honest with it, but I will
say Moles, I'm not really.I've got mixed feelings about the Euros Whilst
I desperately love England to win,and even the other teams are looking forward
to watching some I don't know theDutch and the Germans et cetera play football,

(02:07):
but I've got mixed feelings. Andit's totally utterly down at Gareth Boorgate.
Oh sorry, Garris Southgate. Ijust the bloke. Just I look
at the team and I'm not infused. And I'm looking at the team sheet
before the game, and I'm thinking, wow, right, this is for
nil, And then all of asudden I'm looking at it. I'm thinking,
why is he not getting a tuneout of these top quality players?

(02:28):
Why can't he knit it together?You know the club managers do, but
he can't. So I'm not afan. And so I go into the
Euros a bit like the other nightagainst Iceland feeling well, you know,
can we? But no, Apartfrom that, Males, the football season
will come around quickly enough and it'llbe another thirty forty fifty weeks of the

(02:50):
year or whatever it will take.But no, I'm good. Thanks.
What about you make well? I'mnot say not as fortunate as feel our
card switch off. I've got kidsplaying in tournaments every weekend offer that they
the you know, the young footballteams that they play in. Every one
of them seems to hold their tournamentday, you know what I mean.

(03:13):
I had Saturday and Sunday last week. I had Sunday, Saturday and Sunday
this week. So football sort ofcarries on with me. But I'm a
bit like field when it comes tothe Euros. I have been saying that
I think we'd win it this yearand there ain't no doubt in the fact

(03:35):
that we have the ability to winit. And you know that's what gets
it's all excited. We know whattalent there is in this England squad,
but when you watch them playing likewe did the other night against Iceland,
and you know what there is inthere, but it don't seem to be
coming out. And night Phil saidthat the buck only stops with one person
and that would be the manager.So I do think this if if he

(04:00):
doesn't win it this year Southgate,then I think they should move him on
and get someone in for the WorldCup without a doubt. But listen,
we're always living hope. It's abit like mil warning at the start of
the season. We've got high expectations. Started as Euros. I've got high
expectations, but they don't always cometrue, don't. But let's see,

(04:20):
let's see, ted, Ted,I feel your pain when it comes to
tournaments. The season finishes for mygrandson and it's there's a tournament every single
Sunday, yeah, ten from tentill four for about the next eight weeks
and I'm thinking, hang on,that's the start of the season again.
When's he kids football become fifty twoweeks a year. I know, it's

(04:44):
you know, it's incredible, reallytelling what an old man like me.
It's a long old day standing outme watching them, especially when I'm in
My grandchildren, bless him, areall reasonably good at it. So they
tend to go quite a way inthe ornaments. You know, there's no
ducking out halfway through they seem tobe getting if it's not finals, it's

(05:06):
semi finals. But I love it. It's a proper football. If you
know what I mean to me,send to me, I said, knock
some of these tournaments on the dI'll take them and play cricket and play
tennis, or you know, we'llgo pandel balling us. We'll do a
summer sport. No likes it iswith his mates. They always seem to
get to the semi final, allthe final and and he's a goalkeeper,

(05:28):
so they rely on him probably morethan anyone else. So okay, then
I got I'm gonna buy myself abloody one of those shooting sticks. You
know what I mean. You're rightthey do miss out of it because you
know, like well, both meand you in the summer days when we
were kids, it was out playingcricket or you know, but they don't
seem to get the opportunity to dothat these days. It's just football football,

(05:51):
which is a shame. Really.We will take a break there and
listen to myself and stand god.When talking about local non league side Bermondsey
Town, who's had a revamp thissummer. Burmersey Town you heard of them,

(06:12):
but what what about them? They'rea football club based in Robert Hive.
They're currently members of the Kent FootballLeague Premier Division and play at the
Saint Paul Sports Grand Road. Theground share with Fisher on matchdays. It's
where the Millwall Lionesses, Romans andPride player on Sundays. Oh yeah,
I know. Well if real Wallor are why I'll get along. Check

(06:34):
out the fixtures and details on theBurnsey Town website. I will, I
will give it a go. I'myour host, Marles Thoughnton and with me
the Noel likes As talking team ofPhil Coleman and Ted Robinson. Make sure
to get down to Birmersey Town nextseason when Millwall is not playing or are

(06:58):
away. Could do of your supportto be fair and stan amit cudant simples.
Indeed, many fans state that politicshas no place in football. However,
politics is becoming increasingly prominent, fromthe political decisions surrounding our ground to
the failure of the existing government toget the government's bill through before their court
an election. Since the election wasannounced, more than two hundred plus fan

(07:24):
groups have signed a letter from theFootball Supporters Association calling on the major parties
to include the Football Governance Bill intheir pre election manifestos. Those two hundred
plus support or organizations represent hundreds andthousands of voters across England and Wales.
The Football Governance Bill, the culminationof year's work, is a popular,

(07:45):
ready made piece of legislation that anyincoming government could implement in its first one
hundred days. So why is itimportant? The Bill's reforms represent a big
step forward for football governance in Englandand Wales. It enshrines in law fundamental
principles that would block future breakaway leagues, improve financial sustainability, protect club heritage,

(08:11):
and give fans a more significant sayin how the game and the clubs
they love are run. Phil asan ex pro player and of course former
local politician, would you support urgentlyimplementing this bill or might these new arrangements
have some drawbacks. Absolutely, I'llback it. I'd normally say keep politics
out of football, but in thiscase we need the football governance. It's

(08:39):
desperately needed. It's to stop therich getting richer. As you mentioned,
breakaway leagues, keeping clubs sustainable,not overspending clubs by success and sadly we've
lost clubs buried up in Manchester,has gone South Indo struggling financially, they've
had point Torquid are same and it'surgently needed implementation. There are no drawbacks.

(09:07):
As the game clubs, fans,they need protection and they need protection
from these owners. They need protectionfrom money, and they need protection on
the odd occasion from poor management theleadership. And if not, the bigger
clubs will just get bigger and theywill move away. And for me,
somebody's got to support the fans becauseat the end of the day, the

(09:31):
clubs are not owned by the fans, but they're the fans club. And
I stood, and I was acity councilor for seven years, and I
know how tough it is to getsomething changed. Normally, I'll say three
years just to have a street labchanged because of plannet laws, because people

(09:54):
vote against it. Because but thisseems to have all party consensus. It
seems to have an awful lot backin its all those people behind it,
and as you say, it couldbe implanted in the first hundred days.
Any politician, any party that putsthis forward will get the backing of the
vast majority of football fans because asI've already mentioned, it's needed, and

(10:16):
there is some protection needed, andit's all like mans the city going to
court and trying to have over thegovernance that's already in place. This is
a big, big stick that,as you say, just keeps it all
tight, keeps it together, andhopefully it puts the club's back where they
belong under proper governance. And forthe fans, Ted, how do you

(10:41):
think the bill will affect club management, players and fans. Politics is politics,
and I will feel means by tryingto keep it out as sport,
but unfortunately it finds its way andis in everything that we do. The
problem with football, and I thinkfeel has been speaking about it there to
a certain extent, is that theseclub owners that have come in have dragged

(11:05):
it away from the common fan.I don't like saying common, but the
average person she will say in thesense that you know, we all love
our club so much and it's sucha big part of our lives that whilst
I understand they big make Chester Cityfans now, you know, loving the

(11:26):
moments that they've got, but thesethe people that own their club, could
quite easily take it away from thembecause at the end of the day that
there is, without a doubt gettingcloser and closer to having a European League,
which you know, I mean withthe best wall in the world.
If you start playing teams from abroadwhere it's been a once in a lifetime

(11:48):
journey to see your club play inEurope, all of a sudden that becomes
weak in week out, how manypeople will be able for to go owning
away for them sort of games.You know, it needs to be controlled,
which is what the word I saywhen I read things like I did
today about Phil Folden and there's nobigger admirer than Phil folding me. But

(12:13):
his contract's going to be three hundredand fifty grand a week to be playing
football. That tells you how farit's moved away from the average fan.
That goes you know these guys areon huge amounts of money. Whilst I'll
never begrudge any of them because ofwhat they play, there needs to be
some sort of control that keeps themin touch with us US fans, and

(12:39):
the Governance Bill takes a lot ofthat into consideration. It makes sure that
we as fans have a right tohave a say in what goes on with
our clubs. Unfortunately that I thinkthere's too many football clubs in our country
now that have blocked fans out awayfrom the opinions that they have and have

(13:01):
gone off on their own tangent todo things. So it's massively important and
like feel sort of into that there. I think any of these political parties
that turned around and back this billand say it said it was. It
will be put into place within onehundred working days and that will certainly gain
the votes of lots of people,I think, because I think every football

(13:26):
fan that you speak to understands whythere is a need for this governance build
That's why it's been a work inprogress for quite a while. As we
all know, things in politics don'tnormally happen overnight. There's been a lot
of work gone in behind it's alot of fault in it, and there's
a lot that is good about it, and it would certainly make life for

(13:48):
our football clubs in my opinion,and us as fans are downsite better than
it seems to be going at thismoment. Yeah one, will our mill
supporters promote the action. We canonly wait and see if they announce their
position. We'll take a break thereand listen to our sponsor and great friend
of the show, Dean Wilson andthe Dean Mars from it and your funeral

(14:15):
directors are famed for caring for Millwallfamilies. Where are you located and how
far afield if you travel to accommodatethe needs foot of families. Well,
we've got two branches, the mainones in Elton in Welhall Road and we've
got another one in locks Bottom whichis near Orpington mill Fans around us.
We cover all areas and we dotravel for families. We had a lady

(14:37):
very recently that passed away up northbut it was a wish to come back
to South London for a funeral,so that's what we did. We went
up to Sheffield and we brought itback. We quite often carry out funerals
and mill families all over South Londonand Kent right down to the South coast.
Dean Wilson independent family Funeral Directors caringfor Millwall families no matter how near

(14:58):
or far, should you need themat any time? Bring to eight three
to three one one one one one. That's eight three three one one one
one one. I'm your host MarlesThornton and with me of the Noe Lightes
as talking team of Phil Coleman andTem Robinson. Thanks very much to Dean

(15:20):
Wilson for sponsoring our monthly show.The US Soccer Foundation was the first to
rule that kids under eleven years oldaren't allowed to head the ball, and
there is also restrictions on players ageeleven to thirteen theyre doing headers during football
training. In January twenty twenty,Scotland became the first European country to ban

(15:41):
head heading a football for under twelvesin training. The Irish FA quickly followed
this. The Football Association is introducinga new rule to phase out deliberate heading
in grassroots youth football games across England. The new rule is aimed at under
eleven games and below and will coverall league clubs and affiliated score matches.

(16:03):
This is the latest new rule fromthe FA around headers in football. Previously,
FA guidelines to banheaders in practice andtraining sessions for children under twelve.
So many people are worried about howheaders may affect football as health. Late
last year, research found a linkbetween football and an increased risk of developing
a brain condition dementia. The newrule is designed to reduce the risk of

(16:27):
head injuries. The FA said,our aim is to create more technical opportunities
for players with the ball at theirfeet, allow for more effective playing time,
and reduce the amount of time theboys in the air during a match.
Regarding health and safety, clubs,professional associations and ruling bodies are responsible

(16:47):
for minimizing the risk of harm tothose who play a sport. Health and
safety lord does not quali cover safetymatters arising from the sport or activity,
for example, damaging a risk whensaving a penalty or being injured following a
bad tackle during a football game.Note that a duicy of care under common

(17:08):
civil law may apply. Competitors orpart players participating in competitives, competitions and
training are genuinely subject to non statutoryrules set by the sports National governing bodies.
These rules will include supervision, trainingand in play, may emergency procedures

(17:33):
and medical provision. These rules andguidelines may go beyond workplace health and safety
legislation requirements. What is the ProfessionalFootballers Association's position on the issue? Where
to begin on this one, Miles, I'm going to start by saying my
total and utter sympathy to those explayers struggling with any form of brain condition,

(17:56):
particularly if it's proven that it's comefrom heading the ball. I've certainly
met a few ex players. Someare really upset about it. I can
think of one that's looking for somepayback because of it. He's absolutely sure
it's football that's caused his issues.But I've also met some that wouldn't have

(18:17):
changed an absolute thing. So thequestion you asked the PFA, I'll tell
you what. The PFA the ProfessionalFootball's Association, that's the full that's the
players union. They want players tobe tested, and that's where I begin
my story. About four or fiveyears ago, I actually volunteered. I

(18:38):
bumped into the PFA REP for theSouthern Region and God and I'll do it.
So I trundled along to the Institutea Sport in tottenha Court Road and
I spent five hours being tested everysingle brain test you could have included in
the CT or whatever they call it, cats gang, which took a picture
slices of my brain, and itwas to be fair, it was quite

(19:00):
scary because I did assure me thatif I walked out of there, there's
nothing wrong. But five hours ofconstant test by doctors and specialists in reaction,
in recall, in memory, youname it, I went through it
and it was all sent off toa test lab in Australia. A year

(19:21):
later I got the results back andas I told the doctor, I was
knocked unconscious about ten times in myfootball career. I saw stars once a
week and he fell off the chairand my results and I'm touching would here
have come back absolutely clear. Sofor somebody that's probably gone through a career

(19:42):
where my sole aim was to tackleand head, I headed plenty. And
when I told the doctor about thelast time the fellow came in headbuged me
for talkey. He came in.I walked off the pitch with blood pouring
out before it. The physio heldmy head. The doctor put five stches

(20:03):
in covered it with plastic skin,and I went out and carried on heading
the ball and the game. Thedoctor fell off the chair. You know,
you should have been out for threeor four weeks and you should have
seen us heads specialist. No,we just carried on. Now whether that
attitude and that style of football hascontributed, and we all know about the
heavy balls, weighing a ton witha lace in it, and we know

(20:26):
that just about every single part offootball, going back, let's say thirty
years, the fallbacks launched it,somebody headed it. The goalkeeper launched it.
Somebody headed it to throw on,somebody headed it at free kick corners,
somebody headed it. In general,play the wing across it, somebody
headed it. The occurrence of headingin the game was far higher than it
is now. The game has changed, The ball has changed, the pitches

(20:51):
have changed. They're not muddy,which added to the weight of the ball.
But we've also changed the game.It's fundamentally a more skillful game.
It's on the ground. So thingshave changed from my day. I'll touch
it would again. I was luckycompared to some and there's been some high
profile cases like Jeff Astell. Iget that big time, but there is

(21:12):
a risk in sport. I getthe FA and the Rugby Football Union.
They're trying to make sports safer,but there's a limit, and I think
every player and every parent knows there'sa risk. You know, if you
don't want to get injured, don'tplay football, don't box, don't play
rugby, don't go skiing. Becauseyou can take away the silly risks,

(21:33):
but you can't take away all ofthe risks. And I think the problem
is also the national governing bodies likethe Football Association and the Rugby Football Union.
They're scared because the claims against themare growing. The last time I
looked, I think it was twohundred and forty rugby players have basically said
that rugby's contributed to their brain ornisso for me. With eleven million playing

(21:56):
football, a very small percentage ofgot football related head or dementia. It
is a very very small minority.But if there's any ex players out there
and speak to the PFA, becausethey definitely wanted more players to be tested,
they wanted to come up with asample to say there is definitely this
heading problem. But when you lookat what they've done under elevens now in

(22:21):
England, America been doing it foryears. They don't hurt a ball.
But then I see games under tens, under elevens where they're shouldering the ball
or they're turning their back on theball because they haven't mastered the art of
passing the ball along the ground andthat style of play. So I think
we're in transition. I think thecoaching needs to be better. I think

(22:41):
the kids need to be encouraged toplay the ball along the ground and stop
chipping corners in. It's silly tosee, but they chip corners in and
nobody can edit, either in defenseor attack. So I think we're in
a transition with young kids not beingable to head the ball, so they've
got to learn to play smarter onthe ground. The Premier League doing most
other divisions, to be honest,but I'm sitting there on the fence really

(23:04):
because say, my story is onething, and to use Jeff Astill again,
that's another thing. So I think, yes, I'm probably right in
moving towards heading, but the gamehas changed. And I've also said that
perhaps in forty years time, whenwe start looking at dementia from football,
for the period that we've just comethrough, the last five years or perhaps

(23:26):
the next ten years, we mightnot have any concerns at all. It
might have been eliminated because of thestyle of play. But it's not an
easy one that say. My storyis I set myself up as a guinea
pig. I went through the test, I had the scans and the touch
wood. Again that I'm clear atthe moment, that's good to hear ted.

(23:48):
What dold you make of it?Yeah, I mean the film makes
a real good case about it allthere. I mean, what you've got
to do with this is be realisticregarding things. You know. The troubles
is people these days, when theysee stories and they get a bit over
what's the world, they go overit active about things because the bottom line

(24:11):
is it's more or less sort ofsaying in a sense that if you had
a ball, you will finish uphaving dementia. Well, there's many people
that haven't headed the ball that getdimentia dementia. You know, there's many
people, like Field's pointed out,that have headed the ball and done nothing,
but in the ball they haven't gotdementia. So whilst I'm always looking

(24:33):
for people with in sport to beprotected and what I mean by that.
It's like in rugby you see scrumcaps. Now in cricket you see the
helbits that they wear. Now Imean buried in mind, Miles. When
I was at school, you waslucky if you had had a pad to
put on, let alone a helmet, and they've still had the same hard

(24:55):
cricket ball being bold at you.So whilst I'm in favor of that,
which helps to make the game saferin its way, you have to be
realistic about things. Now you goback to the beginning of sentence. What
you said, who was the federationthat first ruled it out? The Americans?

(25:15):
And what do they do when theyplay what we well, they are
formed of rugby? They stick,crash e it's on their blokes. You
know. It's what the sport isand how it's played. You have to
take that into consideration. And Ifeel quite rightly said, if you wanted
to say, you know, Idon't want anything to happen to me or

(25:37):
my kids or everything, there wouldn'tbe any sport because sport, by the
nature of the fact of what you'redoing, will lead to some sort of
injuries and things. Whatever. Whatneeds to happen here and there is a
big thing about like phil was sayingin the days of heading the ball that
the likes of Jeff Astell did andwhatever. I'm old enough to remember head

(26:00):
and the ball with a lace init, believe it or not, And
that was like a boulder of comingoff of your red. So yeah,
I can see where all this iscoming from in the sense of did that
have an effect? Did it causedamage to someone? The nature of football
now will change because, as wesay many many times throughout the season,

(26:22):
football now, because of the pitchesare so beautifully like carpets. You can
play it on the floor more often. You don't have to keep humping it
up like phil Usta in these days, because you was taking the pitch out
the game in them days, sothe ball would spend more time in the
air. You know, it's nowherenear in the air these days. So
the natural progression in pitches and whateverwas leading to the ball on the deck

(26:47):
more and more. All I'm sayingis we shouldn't get it, should make
light of it, but we shouldn'tgo overballed about it. Dementia is out
there for lots of other people otherthan people that get bangs. On the
head or hit the ball and thingslike that. So yes, by all
means, let's try and get footballas safe as possible. I'm actually not

(27:11):
against it being banned for kids upuntil a certain age, because what you
want them to do is to learnhow to play the ball on the floor.
You know. You want them tohave the ball to their feet.
You want them to give and goand make movement, and that's right at
that age. They don't need tobe ending the ball and a small five
a side pitch or a seven aside pitch. Keep the ball down and

(27:34):
make the ball do the work downthere and play your football. But you
have to come to a sensible decisionabout it, otherwise football will change.
And I don't think there's any bettersight in football, in my opinion,
than someone throwing theirselves full length andscoring a goal with a diving edder,

(27:56):
you know, And that excitement shouldn'tbe taken away from football, because if
you like health and safety, whichin my line of work sometimes drives me
back mad because it's not realistic andit's a bit over the top, if
you like to call it that.And I think there is a danger that

(28:19):
the whole thing could go over thetop and where we protect everybody too much
and it wouldn't be the sport thatwe all love. Let's just accept that
there is injuries in any sport,whether it's dementia or anything else. But
let's try and protect people at thesame time. But let's not eliminate everything

(28:40):
that we believe might cause an injury, because it's impossible to do anyway.
But yeah, that's that's my faultson it. By the way, I
just like that I have got allthe sympathy in the world for all them
people that are suffering from dementia,by the way, you know, the
people in football that have that beliefthat it was down to football. You

(29:03):
know, we all wish that therewas some way or some form that we
could stop dementia. And hopefully there'slots of things going on at this moment
in time that maybe within they're nottoo distant future, dementia does become a
thing of the past because there's someway of controlling it, I think,

(29:26):
because as I say, it doesn'tonly come through knocks on the head,
which it can come naturally. Solet's be realistic and keep spault as sported.
I was. At most if youdon't mind. Heading is a fundamental
skill of the game. Oh yeah, I know they've played this game where
it's banned and everybody sees the success. But until you say that heading his

(29:52):
band, it's like chucking a pebblein the pond heading his band. Then
coaches need to really prove what they'reoffering these young kids from under sevens upwards,
because I'm still seeing across a broadspectrum of areas and teams and players
they're still chipping corners in and they'restill taking throw ones despite heading being banned

(30:15):
at under nine, ten eleven.Okay, so the coaching's got to improve.
The techniques have got to improve toget the ball on the ground and
play football a different way. Ireckon because obviously my son lives in America
and he coaches out there. Theamount of people that were suing for head
injuries was shocking in America, sothey had to ban it. Now we're

(30:37):
taking a leaf because we have gotpeople taking the national governing bodies to court
over this. They won't in Jordan, but we've got a problem because is
it gene related, is it agerelated? Is it that sport related?
But I'll tell you what I'm seeingin my other career, we're losing rugby
players in schools. There is aprofessor up in the North of England who

(31:00):
is band who desperately wants all rugbybanned in secondary schools. In schools,
okay, So parents are now herein that message. You're not playing rugby.
Some it's too dangerous. Cricket alwaysbowling at you. Oh you need
pads, you need gloves, youneed a crash on it. Oh,
it must be too dangerous. Sowe're now losing cricket in schools as well
because the equipment's costly. So,as you said third sed, if we

(31:22):
are taking every element of risk outof sport, there will be no sport.
I can tell you now cricket.The numbers in schools, the numbers
taking part cricket is dropping. It'snot just a risk, it's the cost.
Rugby it's too dangerous. The perceptionis it's too rate dangerous. Clubs
are getting good numbers, but schoolsare not because again the school has to
do a risk assessment, safeguard thatyou name it. So we are now

(31:45):
in this rapting cut of wall fearculture that heading a ball is so dangerous
it's not good for you, sodon't play football. Fortunately, I don't
think the foot football numbers are dropping, and in fact they're going up.
More and more girls are playing.But if we're going to play ball on
the ground, the coaches have gotto improved. We've got to have the
ball thrown out, and we've gotto have patterns of play under nines and
under tens to eliminate and create adecent game of football to watch, because

(32:09):
you can't have old school football.Goalkeeper boosts it up the other end and
everybody ducks out the way because they'renot allowed to head it. I'm seeing
it, and I'm sure listeners onthis program will see it. Kids are
not heading the ball. They're turningtheir back on it as it's bouncing.
So we've got to say we've thrownthe pebble in the pond, unless he
prove the coach, unless you provethe techniques, unless he prove the technique

(32:30):
of actually heading the ball. BecauseI had some great people coaching me when
I was a kid, and whenI hit sixteen, I had the best.
I had Barry Kitchen to showing meout with the ball at the time,
how to get your elbows up.How to protect yourself didn't always work
because somebody came in and baited itlater through an elbow. But you've got
to get the heading technique right aswell, because that's half the ball.

(32:51):
You do not want it on yourtemple. You want it on the correct
part of the forehead. So there'sa lot about it. But hopefully,
bit I bet we'll make the gamea better game without heading. But at
the end of the day, itis a fundamental skill of the game that
I don't believe we should ever lose. You make a great point there,
feel about that, you know,people being sued and things like that.

(33:15):
Unfortunately in this world to day that'swhere health and safety starts coming in and
you start getting these things. Sopeople put things into place to more or
less say, well, you know, it wasn't my fault, you can't
suit me, And a lot oftime people turn around and make a law
or make a rule to say,well, the only way I can save

(33:36):
myself from being you know, suedlike that by somebody that might come up
with a claim or something like that, is to stop it from happening.
In other words, we put somethingin place where they don't do that,
and if you start moving it asit is crept into sport where you quite
rightly point out, then all ofa sudden you won't have that sport anymore

(33:57):
because the fear factor not only fromwhat actually happens while you're playing, but
what might happen to somebody that's allowingyou to play. In other words,
they get sued theirselves all of asudden, nobody's going to be doing it.
So it's a very valid point,like you say, but you're right
the coaching. The coaching has toimprove, as we said earlier. You

(34:22):
know, I've been watching kids atturn as the last couple of weekends,
and you're right in everything you say. The kids they can't hit a ball
now, they don't know how toat a ball. You know, they
shouldn't be ending the ball. Thefootball should be better than that. It
should be coached into them to keepthe ball down and whatever. But yeah,

(34:43):
that has to be a given fromnow on in that sort of coaching
has to take place in the kids, and that will make them better footballers
without that. And also I wasa party to repetitive heading, So for
five days a week I would dofifteen to thirty headers a day. In
fact, me and Peter Glazier,he throws me up twenty headers. I

(35:06):
give him twenty shots. That wasour extra bit of training for ten minutes
after everyone had gone off the pitch. So I got damn good at heading
and he got damn good at saving. That Repetitive heading has now been taken
away, and I can't quite rememberhow many headers a week, but I
think it's fifteen headers a week fora pro. For me, that can
be five in front of the game, two games a week. You've done

(35:30):
your limit in a couple of daysat five headers. So is that holding
back the development of a professional footballerwho's put his name on a contract to
play for X amount a week andyou're holding back his development of a skill
because of a fear that in thelonger running he might end up with dementia.
So in the professional game, I'msorry, but I signed up to

(35:52):
tackle, be tackled, head,be headed, sprint and be twipped,
have my leg broken stitches because thatwas the part and parts of the game
that I signed up to, andI would sign up for it again tomorrow
and I would do repetitive heading tomorrow, because that was what I signed up
for So there's a bit of mesays, let's eliminate unnecessary risk. Probably

(36:15):
okay, under nine is under tento under elevens. But I don't understand
a you could have a set figureof heading a ball as a pro.
I can remember losing the game toa corner and we spent two hours the
next day heading from corners, twohours heading from corners to eliminate. The
next game somebody scoring against us froma header from a corner. So I'm

(36:36):
not saying repetitive heading. You're doingthirty a day like I did. But
hang on, it's a fundamental skilland you're signing up to play football,
and if you don't like it,don't play. It's as simple as that.
I get a little bit emotional becauseof what we had and what we're
losing. And as you said said, it's nothing better than a cross comes
in and somebody's at the posting fantasticheader. It's a spectacle the diving headers

(36:59):
at the of the game. Butthis will run and run because we have
people that are absolutely fundamentally against heady. But what happened in the next game,
for after they all the heading fromcars. I bet somebody scored from
I felt dizzy. To be honestwith you, the next corner coming.

(37:20):
You missed it completely. But thatwas part of coaching. If you looked
at a witkness, you looked atwhere we conceded goals and you dealt with
it, and you dealt with itby improving your technique from heading and marking
from corners. So I get,I get where it's coming from. I
get the demension link, but Ijust think we could do a lot better
than Fred the baby out with thebuffo. Yeah. Well, former line

(37:45):
Brian King has been loud about dementiamatters and its effects on players. Let's
see what he asks. Good evening, This is Brian King regarding dementia in
football. Something's been discussed for many, many years, and I feel personally

(38:05):
that players from the sisters sixties andseventies in the eighties are the main sufferers
of this illness, primarily caused bythe weight and the sort of construction of
a football that was used during thatera. I feel that players currently playing
will not encounter the problems that playersduring that era would have faced. My

(38:31):
own thoughts are that the Premier Leagueas it is now and the PFA should
be looking for cures for the playersof that era. Take a center forward
or a cent a half who's headingthe ball sometimes two or three hundred times
a week in training and in matcheswould be no different than a boxer who

(38:53):
has twenty or thirty fights during hiscareer taking punches to his head. Similar
effect in weight and power as afootball striking a footballers head. I think
we have to look to these associationsto start to fund and help the players

(39:15):
from that area. And as we'veseen, many players have been suffering from
this illness. What do you think, Phil, We'll start with you.
What do you think about Brian's Ithink Brian's bang on. I think it
is an era. I think itis a generational thing. The fifty sixties
and seventies, the heavy balls,the repetitive heading, the wet pitches and

(39:37):
the mud and the whole of thatpackage from that era. Even through the
late seventies when the balls did change, we meant to these miters. They
were still heavy, but nowhere nearwhat was around before. I think it
is that era, and I agree, I think we've got one of the
richest. We have the richest footballassociation in the world. And I think

(39:58):
they should be spending some millions ofpower. I'm looking at how we can
support those that are struggling with dementiaas ex players. The PFA do a
bit. They have got a benevolentfund, and they do. They helped
to fund my hit replacement, whichobviously was probably brought on through playing football
and the amount of training, running, kicking, everything else, So they

(40:19):
have a benevolent fund. So Itend to agree with Kingy. We have
got a generational thing. As Isaid earlier. Funny enough, if we
go forty years from now, wemay not have what we've got now because
certainly, the balls, the pitches, the type of the game that it
is now is nowhere near like itwas in the fifties and sixties. So
yeah, and the money could wellbe invested in looking after those people.

(40:44):
As much as we're saying we don'tkiss ahead the ball, we should be
looking at people that have gone throughthat's era ed. What do you think?
Yeah, Andrew percent agree with Kingyas usual, my favorite goalkeeper of
all time and the best goalkeeper eversoon. I do agree with what he
says. And when we talk aboutthe money that's in football, like I

(41:05):
mentioned earlier with Phil fold and gettingthat amount of money a week and whatever.
Whilst I understand it, we're talkingabout the players of today, the
guys that go out there and shinefor a daily basis with their teams now
and you know they're all over theworld on the Telly's and whatever. The
people that king you're talking about didn'tmake that sort of money out of football.

(41:27):
They wasn't in that sort of privilegedposition where Phil Foden, who probably
could afford any medical that he wantedto is probably still gets his medical bills
paid for by the club regardless ofthe money that he's putting in his bank.
The guys that king he's talking aboutnever see any of that, and
they are the ones that should behelped them. Football as a sport deserves

(41:50):
to look after these people a lotbetter than it is doing. I know
the PFA do out of a lotand Phil, we'll talk about that,
I'm sure, so tell us alot more about that, and we really
know the amount that they do.But at the end of the day,
the football clubs and the richness that'swithin our game does not tend to think

(42:12):
about the players that brought it tothat. Those riches from the years gone
by, you know, when youthink happened to dear old Jimi year or
when he actually started to get afootball as a proper living wage to play
football with all the riches that wascoming in from the receipts in them days
for the crowds, you know,quite rightly, he started to get the

(42:36):
players a bit more than you knowthey was getting before, but they still
wasn't on anywhere near the sort ofmoney that these guys are on now,
which means they don't really have todo anything else after they're playing careers.
You know, those days, theyused to try and renign some money coming
out of the old what did theyhave at the end field for their long

(42:57):
term careers. They used to havetestimonials to get some money for him,
like you know, but that withthe vast amounts of money that there is
in football, a lot more shouldbe being done about the people that King
mentioned him there, the forgotten footballersif you like to call them that,
In whatever way you like to putit, they deserve a lot more from

(43:21):
football in a return for what theygave us out on the football field.
That that's my opinion with it,and there should be some sort of form
of organization apart from the Professional Football'sAssociation that helps to look after some of
these people that need to be seenfrom their days of playing football gone by

(43:47):
that suffer. And it's not onlydimension I feel quite rightly pointed out.
You know, he's hit when there'sloads of old players like that that have
suffered in that respect. Dementia isan obvious thing because it's making headlines at
the moment, but there's all sortsof injuries that people are football is from
them by gone eras that have sufferedthroughout their lives because you know of what

(44:15):
they was doing and what they wasputting in for our entertainment out on a
football field, you know, andthere should be more being done than their
actually years and football should recognize thattaed up to about nineteen ninety and that
includes Millwall's team that won promotion andplayed in the old Division one. I

(44:37):
think all bar one had to goand get a job after they've packed up
playing, So that tells you aboutthe riches. Now. The difference between
say nineteen ninety and before people wentout to get they finished age thirty and
they to go and get a job. They didn't have the money that is

(44:58):
swilling around now. You know,if you are on ten grand a week
Division two one or Championship club andyou stick for ten years, I doubt
very much. With the football pension, I doubt very much your need a
job. But up to about nineteenninety my brother's a plaster and has got
his own building company. I knowKevin O'Callaghan, he had a decent career.
I know he's got a job.You know, all these top players

(45:20):
have played for Millwall and other clubs. They've all had to go and get
jobs. They need looking after.So let's just say what king he said.
The fifties, sixty seventies, eightiesand up to nineteen ninety, these
players, they gave their heart andsoul. Training is brutal. You know,
I would keep mentioning and laughing aboutrunning up the pop Gunnis Hill,
running up that hill a couple oftimes a week for fitness. When you

(45:43):
get to my age now you sayyou look back and you say i'd've still
done it, But I am sufferingnow. Hit number one's been replaced thanks
to the PEERFA Benevolent Fund. Igot some of it paid. Hit number
two it's on its way. Youknow, these are football sport related injuries.
Would I change the thing? AmI suffering with it? Yes?
Do I care? No? BecauseI absolutely love my football career and I'd

(46:06):
have done it again willingly, eventhough if somebody said to me, you're
going to have a hit replacement whenyou're sixty, well, okay, then
I'll have it. But we needthe money there from the richest football association
in the world to funder PFA tomake sure that money filters down to those
that need it. Goalkeepers, youknow, can you imagine the stress and
the fingers and the broken wrists thatthey go through, and the arthritis in
the fingers. You know, nobody'smentioning that. You know, nobody's mentioning

(46:29):
some of the ankles that have beenbroken through tackles and they're out of place,
and people are now in wheelchairs becausethey can't walk, you know.
So I think King is right.The money needs to be put forward to
make sure that players from that eraand they continue if they even now there
might be some footballers out there thathave a great career and they still have
to get a job when they retire. They should be looked after as well.

(46:50):
So Whilst it's a generational thing,it's got to be continued and it's
got to be on a par withwhat they need. There should also be
something for fans for all this willfeel reduction in season tickets. Yeah,
we'll take a short break there andlisten to Bethany Manxalo talking about how you

(47:14):
can support mill Community Trust. Themill Will Community Trust something that I Bethany
Magtelow admire for all that it does. The Trust was established in nineteen eighty
five works to provide sporting, education, social and healthy lifestyle opportunities to the
local community in southerwk Lewisham, NorthKent and the wider community. Its work

(47:37):
is targeted at people of all ages, irrespective of race, gender or sexual
orientation, and runs programs aimed attackling social exclusion, racism, knife crime,
lack of employment opportunities for young people, mental health and disability issues.
The Trust aims to be a progressiveand campaigning charity that makes a difference to

(47:58):
ordinary people's lives. Its work isundeniably essential to the local community. They
have sponsorship opportunities to support this work. Email commercial at Millwall Community dot org
dot uk. I'll say that againthat is email commercial at Millwall Community dot
org dot UK. Please help ifyou can. I'm your host, Mars

(48:22):
s Thormnton and with me other thenormal LITIS talking team of Phil Coleman and
Ted Robinson. If you can donateor sponsor to the trust, you will
help them to deliver all their activitiesacross all the A troups in our community.
There have been some happenings within twodistinct streams of Millwell Football Club.
We have seen three significant departures fromthree senior roles within the club's administration and

(48:45):
two departures from the first team playingstaff. We've also seen young players depart
after not being retained. Ted,will you shocked to see Steve Cavanar,
Alex Audridge and Billy Taylor depart almostsimultaneously after the season? Yeah? I
think that the timing of it,and although in hindsight, I think the

(49:06):
timing was probably right if he wasgoing to do it. It gives them
time to settle people in before thestart of the new season. But it
was a bit of a shock becauseit did come a little bit out of
the blue. But when I thinkabout the three people that you mentioned,
I mean Steve Kavanaugh, who's beenthe CEO for a few years that we

(49:30):
know. And look, I thinkSteve Cavana did a good job, and
I think James Berylson, uh,you know, sort of appreciated it and
more or less said that. ButAlex Aldridge was an appointment from Steve,
and I think Billy Taylor was.So I look at it now and it
looks a little bit like when youget rid of the manager for the football

(49:52):
team, he takes his back roomstaff with him more often than not.
So as times war on, theshot has become less and it's been a
little bit more understanding after that.So James is obviously, Belson is obviously

(50:15):
his own man. He's going todo things differently to John. He has
his own ideas and I think that'sbecome apparent from what has happened here.
He obviously wants to take the footballclub in a slightly different direction, and
in his opinion, it looks likehe believes that to do that he needed

(50:37):
to replace Steve Gavner, Alex Aldridgeand Billy Taylor. Time will tell you
know, Well, one thing iswe're all on a stable foot in here,
and the three guys mentioned all donegood jobs. In their respective positions.
So yeah, it's interesting. Butas I say, I'll see it

(50:59):
more to do with James Berylson havean ease vision which has come out of
his dad's eyes, but is inhis own eyes what he believes that he
wants me all football club to achieveor where he wants it to go to.
And as I say, when you'rein a position as James Berrelson is,

(51:21):
if you believe you need to changethings to get to where you want
to go, then you have todo it. And maybe he might have
thought where Steve cavin has been therefor quite a while as a CEO,
and he might have thought that thingswere getting a bit stow he needed to
change it. It might not bethat he's got anything any real reason to

(51:43):
get let Steve Cavina go from theclub. It might be or Alex Ordered
or Billy Tay that he just wantsto freshen things up and see things going
in a different light, because weall know sometimes it can get stow.
Football managers now don't like much morethan three and four years, So why
should CEOs and that if you knowwhat I mean, if you're looking after

(52:06):
a football club, so be interestingI know that the guy Mark Fairbrothers come
in. He looks like he's goingto be dealing with the financial side of
things and Steve Gallan is going tobe looking after the football things. That's
one thing that has changed because Ibelieve Steve Cavna was in charge of both

(52:27):
in that sense. So it lookslike to me that James Belson is splitting
it into two different sort of divisionswhere one person will be looking after one
side and someone will be looking afterthe other. Of course their past will
cross because it has to do withfinances and whatever, but wants to seem
to have as two separate departments,So be interesting to see what happens and

(52:52):
there it goes interesting. It willbe phil Steve Gallant replaced Alex Audridge's as
Ted Rightley pointed out, he's comein as director of football. He's previously
worked at Chelton where he was directora football and head of recruitment as well.
He had a short break as acoach has assistant head coach to Monster

(53:12):
at before joining us. What areyour expectations for the club's future in light
of the change. Well, Ithink Ted took away my first two hours
of rumbling because James Bereston has clearlygot a different opinion to you, and
he's appointed his own people every chancethey'll have a different skill set. I
quite like the idea that the footballand non football is split. Very difficult

(53:36):
jobs. I don't know Steve Gullanpersonally or I only know the name,
but clearly James and his advisors likewhat he's done and what he brings,
and that is a hell of ajob. The recruitment of players senior and
youth, it's absolutely paramount to theclub's success. Get the right players,

(53:58):
get the wrong players, get theplayers with the wrong character, the wrong
personality. I'll chuck in what Ithink is a key point as well.
We've got to make sure recruitment foryoung players. Some of them, unfulty
don't make the step up to thefirst team, and that's probably down to
the championship. And it's brutal thechampionship, tough, physical, fast,

(54:19):
quality. And it's okay, fans, we're winning the under eighteens league and
Cups and we're in the under twentyones. That's one thing, but playing
against the top teams and top playersin the championship is something else. And
you really have got to recruit theblack players, get good coaching, which
we clearly have got. But eventhen, as fans, why has he
been released? Why have we lostall his under twenty ones? They're not

(54:42):
good enough for the league that we'rein and in the managers eye, he
cannot see them playing. So therecruitment of youngsters and bringing them through is
one thing. But for me,Steve Gallen has got to work closely with
Neil Harris. I'm sure they will. They've got to get players in that
actually enhance the first team squad,you know, that's it. In a
nutshell, Steve Gallen working with themanager, has got to bring in players

(55:05):
that enhance the first team squad.That's it. It's damn difficult though,
in a nutshell, that's what he'sgot to do. Find these players and
get them across the line. Youdon't necessary get signatures straight away. You're
dealing with contracts, agents, otherclubs, demands and the fees that might
be paid, the location bringing himdown from another part of the country or

(55:30):
another part of the world, likethe Flemings that we've got. So there's
location issues, schools for kids,and then the wages, and they've all
got to stay within budget. We'vein our financial structure, so Steve Gallen's
got a hell of a job.But obviously in James Belson, he's brought
somebody in that he clearly trusts andthinks he can do the job to bring

(55:50):
in those players for us. Sohell of a job. But he's got
to get those players in and NilHarris will have a shopping list. Steve
Gallan will obviously have contacts and hopefullythe decision by mister Pearlson will bear for
it. He's also got to workwith Scott Fitzgerald obviously, Field, you
know, to keep the academy.You're right, the academy is at a

(56:14):
certain level at this moment and therehave been some fantastic achievements with the academy,
you know, with the under fourteams winning there when they beat Arsenal
in the final, didn't they beatChelsea. So there's a good little crop
coming through there. There's the undereighteens have been achieving, there's the under
twenty ones. But as we allknow, like Fiel quite rightly pointing out,

(56:34):
it's one thing winning in that agegroup, it's another thing going out
and playing championship football. But themore we keep developing these sides, hopefully
one day we'll have the crop comethrough like Phil heading these day and the
ones that came through like the TimmyKane Kale and where you get, they
are good enough and that's what wewant. And of course the other side

(56:57):
of its separately away from the footballside. I mentioned Mark fair Brother.
He's also obviously got a lot todo. There's a new training ground that's
going to be coming along hopefully soon. There's the surrounding area now that the
least has been secured for the forthe nine hundred and ninety nine years,
you know, and there's lots ofactivity on that front. And maybe that's

(57:22):
the reason why James Folk to himselfor Steve Cavina can't do this, this
and this, I need to separateit. I'm guessing a bit here,
but it seems like we was justsaying and Piel was saying, it's separating
the football from the financial side ofit. And I like that in that
sense, even though we all knowit crosses because of wages. But that's

(57:45):
a good thing. With the amountof work that's going to be coming on
board for Millwall Football Club with theirnew training stadium around the ground. So
yeah, both Mark Fairbrother and SteveGann and I wish him both all the
best because I think, you know, if these two guys are successful in

(58:06):
our football club is going to bein a very very good position and before
we know it, and I knowI'm a dreamer, but we might be
the next man's city coming along that. Don't laugh, Miles. You well,
if you if you are a millfan, you are looking at nine
hundred nine year lease and we're goingto be improving the ground, We're going

(58:29):
to be improving surrounding the ground.Well, that is going to be a
long term income to the club.And just look at the site, look
at the plans. There is hugeincome on its way. I'm not sure
when. It's probably going to beat least five, six, ten years
down the line. But if youcan stay in the championship and keep building,
keep bringing the commercial money and keepbuilding the season tickets, our biggest

(58:51):
crowds are for a long long timelast season, So they're doing something right.
You know, some fans call itboring on the pitch, but there
more and more people going down thereto watch the games. And I don't
care where foreigners there are more andmore people watching the game. Mark Fairbrother
clearly has a background in finance.He's clearly been punching at the top end
of formulae and wherever he's been hehas been brought in to make sure that

(59:15):
that income stream comes in on thesethings are realized. The stadium development,
the development around the whole area underthat nine hundred ninety nine year least,
the new training ground, all thatyou've touched on ted So it's actually it's
looking good. It's quite exciting insome ways to see some of this stuff
we took. All football club istalking about this stuff and it's amazing,

(59:37):
to be honest with you. Alittle club in Southeast sixteen is punching down
that line and needing these people tocome in and make sure it's realized and
the fruits of their label hopefully comedown the line and we'll have a really
secure future and we might not berelying on the owner to put millions in
every year in loans and buying back. But it's actually in thechampionship with them.

(01:00:00):
It's already gone on the last coupleof years. Last season was the
season and a half. If therecruitment is right, and we get some
better players in to go with whatwe've already got. Uh, we could
be punching at the top of thetable as well and all the whole package
I've just mentioned what you've mentioned.It's quite exciting times if your mill fact.

(01:00:20):
Yeah, well I've been saying foryears, Phil. They'll be talking
about, like you know, building, extending the ground shore, We say
and whatever, and then people startsaying, oh, are we going to
feel it? There's a simple wayto fill it. And I can assure
everyone how personally I believe if millwere to get into the Premier League,
the ground will be sold out everyweek, even with you know, an

(01:00:44):
extension being put on it or atthe attendance level taken up, because we
all know that what it is likewhen it comes to big games down at
Millwall. We sell out and they'llbe and that's even with lots of people
not bothering the cup. You know, when you're a football club like Millwall
that could sell out the old Wembleywhen we had the Cup that we was

(01:01:07):
in there the windscreen. But thatmeans there's a fan base out there that's
just itching to come and watch Millwallin the Premier League, and I don't
think there's any doubt about it thatif we made the grand improvements and made
it the attendance higher, if wewas in the Premier League, that would
get filled. Yeah, definitely.Well, Mark returns to the club,

(01:01:30):
obviously, where he previously held thepositions of chief financial Officer and company Secretary,
following a period as vice president offinancing Formula E, which continues to
organize the world's fully first electric racingseries. A lot is going on in
the plans for the then, asas you've both quite rightly pointed out,

(01:01:50):
with its extensive lease and the approvedplans for the Kent training ground. So
Mark Fairbrother, is that a goodappointment in your eyes? Well, I
think you know, form the resan up and coming form of racing,
which you know, any new sportlike that that takes off, that takes
a lot of organizing and get going, And he's done a pretty good job

(01:02:14):
there, I must admit. So, as Phil said, I think James
Berylson, because he knows Mark Fairbrotherfrom his time at Millwall and whatever.
Obviously Phil's he's the right man forthe job. And yeah, I'm not
sure if there's many better candidates aroundthere, But we've certainly got a good
one, I believe. I don'tknow how film season. I think if

(01:02:37):
you're the vice president of financing FormulaEE, it's a global sport. It
goes across the world, it's allover the place. It's a bit like
Formula one with fast electric cars.But it's a global brand. And if
you're punching at that level to comeback to Millwall, you will have a
very good understanding of finance of developmentin a particular spot in how to grow

(01:03:00):
the brand. And is that whatJames Berelson is looking at? Does he
want him to grow the brand?Does he wanted to make sure that we're
all over America? I often quotethe two guys, the two film starles
that went into Rerexham, you know, a little tiny club like that's only
forty thousand shirts last year, youknow, and they're being watched by thousands,
not millions in North America. Soformulaly global brand mineral are we going

(01:03:28):
to get that exposure? Is MarkFairbrother seen by James Berelson as somebody that
can actually promote the club and knowswhere to go to make it a bigger
brand and realize more commercial opportunities aswell as all the developments that we've already
spoken about. So yeah, itseems like a great appointment to make,
even if when you look at yourCV it's just back to with finance.

(01:03:50):
Is a master of finance by thelook of it, So a good appointment
for me. Yep, we'll takea break there and listen to Oh yeah
mean lovely to see you here upin the Armies then again, and of
course you've taken over from the Brownfamily. Cape that they have here is
just it's just wonderful. Millwall shirtson the chairs, blue and white table

(01:04:11):
cloths, blue chairs, and allyou guys in Millwall kit of course,
tell me what goes on? Whenare you here? What can we expect?
We're here Monday to Friday from tenthirty till five every day, open
to the public. Everyone's welcome.We open every match day from eleven thirty
till half two. We've got anew family, a new little cafe team

(01:04:36):
and the girls up here all lovelyand friendly. So who are the girls
that are out here. We've gotmyself Ellie of course, and then we've
got Nicole who works during the week. We've got Michelle who also works during
the week. She's lovely, andLena who works on a match day.
And my mum Ellen, who's verywell known. Well she also helps out

(01:05:00):
in here from time to time.So we've got a lovely little family to
look after the community, wonderful staff. So what's on offer at the cafe
these days? We've got everything fromchicken burgers to Panini's to full breakfast,
tea, coffee, hot chocolate,soft drinks, snacks, everything you could

(01:05:23):
need. So it's all here,all available, a great team to serve
it up to you. Well,what else can I say but carry on
in Harvey's style here at Harvey's DenCafe and all the best to you Ellie
and your team, and I lookforward to coming up and enjoying some of

(01:05:44):
the fair in not the far distantfuture. Well, in fact, I've
already done there. The coffee isjust super Thanks Ellie, Thanks Amen.
I'm your host, Marks Taughton andwith me are the No Less Talking Team
with Phil Coleman and Ted Robinson.Get down to the Line Center if you're
in the area, or use thefacility event at the Trust. We mentioned
too critical departures from our first teamsquad bar Bilkovski and Sean Hutchinson that these

(01:06:10):
departures disturb some fans who voiced theiropinions across social media. I believe they
served our club well and I wishthem all the very best in the future.
We also said goodbye to several owneesJeff at teng Ganga, Brook,
Norton Cuffee, Michael Obefemi, RyanLongman and Alan Campbell. Given both of
those leaving us without having their contractsrenewed and those returning to their parent clubs.

(01:06:34):
What do you hope Steve Gallen willsecure for our first team squad ahead
of ahead of the twenty twenty fourto twenty five season, and maybe do
you hope you know a couple ofthem might come back? Tedrial w They
get a look. It's the startof the silly season, as they say,
because as Field was pointing out,the start of the show when it

(01:06:54):
comes to the end of the season. Although then footballers want to do is
put their feet up and they're notdrew back to the time twenty sixth of
June, and a lot of contractsdon't finish till the beginning of July as
such, and whatever, and therewas always going to be little things that
come out that you know will formsomething of the transfer market, like to
Ganga being everybody knows now that Tottenhamhave released him, so he's on a

(01:07:18):
he's on a free. But thenobviously straight away it was not only Millwall,
there was looton Ipswich. Whatever it'ssupposed to be interested in him.
Who knows whether they are. Itmight be his agent drumming it up a
little bit so it can get asmuch money as he came for to Ganger
when he signs. So all thesethings and all we want to know is

(01:07:40):
football fans, is who's going tobe playing for us on the first day
of the season, and it willcome out. But as I'm sure Field
will explain you as a person that'splayed the game and been in it,
it's not just about you playing football. It's about where your family live.
It's where you you know, wheredo you go? Is it somewhere you're

(01:08:00):
going to be comfortable with. It'sdifferent if you're going out on loan and
you can get tempted to a clubjust so you can go and be playing
football. But when you're talking aboutsomewhere that you want to be permanently or
I think then all them sort ofthings that us as fans don't consider have
to be considered by the players andalike. But listen, I wouldn't be

(01:08:20):
surprised if the Ganger joins us,But then I wouldn't be surprised if he
went to which because I think isgood enough to have another shot at the
first in the Premier League. ButI for one hope we sign him.
I wouldn't mind seeing Longman back downnow. I don't think there's much chance
of Campbell of a FAMI, maybeNorton Coffee. I don't know what's exactly

(01:08:45):
happening with him the als at themoment, but if it's not Norton Covey,
it'll be somebody else like Norton Coffeethat might come here, because we
will have in recent seasons done prettywell out of loans of Premier League side
at the age of eighteen nineteen thatcome down here. But I say Longman

(01:09:06):
done enough for me to say,yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing him down
here on a permanent basis and takeAnger. There's a quick mention about bart
and Sean, two fantastic servants ata football club without adabt in more ways
than one, not only for theirability on the pitch but also after pitch.
Two really great guys, and itwas a pleasure only to see him

(01:09:31):
on the pitch, but to speakto him off of it, you know.
And so but with everyone, youknow, your time comes, and
I think the time was right forBart to move on, probably through his
injuries more than anything. I thinkthe time was right for Sean Hutchinson to

(01:09:55):
move on. When you think thatMillwall got Alex Mitchell who's come back from
a loan spill, You've got CarmelGrant who got promoted with Bromley, and
China Cooley who also got uh timeplaying at Bromley. They're floating around in
the background, whether they're going tobe good enough for whether you know,

(01:10:19):
we all believe that they need togo out again. It's all got to
be looked at, and I'm sureNeil's faving him that out as we speak.
But Steve, Steve Gannon will dohis bit and then will be players
coming in. We know that.The trouble is we just have to be
a bit patient because we all aregoing to start playing the guessing game that

(01:10:41):
goes around every season. Will hecome to U s won't you company?
So I even see something somewhere thatsaid Mario batter tell it might be on
his way? Uh? Was thatthrough you, Myles? Was it?
I saw? Yeah? Post?But this is what I mean. It's
a silly thing, isn't it.Isn't it like all these rumors will start

(01:11:02):
flying around with not too much evidencebased, if you know what I mean.
There's a lot goes on, andI'm sure Phil will talk about his
favorite subject, the players agents.They throw things out left, right and
center to make the waters a littlebit murky and and they really are just
so they can try and get abit more for there there people. But

(01:11:28):
I am quietly confident that we havethe squad already of the players that are
there that with the right additions toit, can have a right go at
it. This season we've got somegood jungsters floating around the Maku and essay
another year on another year wise ofa championship football, I believe in in

(01:11:49):
Maku we have a real star ontheir hands if it can stay fit,
say, I think could be absolutelyanything he wants to be. So that's
a good start there with answers.But I generally think that the granding of
the squad as it is is reallygood. We just need the correct players
to come in that just take usto that next level. Yeah, that's

(01:12:13):
that's how I'll see it, Phil, What do you think of that?
Yeah, in any club, Bart'shutch and those loans are going to be
a big loss and they need replacing. There's a package, as Ted said,
there's a package when a manager looksto the release of a player.
Could be aged, could be injuries, might one of three up wages,

(01:12:36):
Their current playing opportunities might be limited, so you let them go so they
can play elsewhere the manager might havebetter lined up hopefully or as as sometimes
happens, they just want to goback home wherever home may be another country
and another move back up north towhere their families are. They've just said
enough time, they've had enough ofbeing away, so replaced in. But

(01:13:00):
we need a good backup goalkeeper,that's for sure. I think we need
at these two quality center backs,probably a right back in the left back,
so that's where those loans and centerbacks are coming in. We need
white players longman, for sure.It got better mentioned tang ganger at the
back and over famly type up front. As a defender, I hated pace.

(01:13:21):
I could deal with absolutely anything.But if somebody was really quick and
so that type of striker, Ithink we look to get him. Loans
could be vital. You know,it's proven. We haven't got the biggest
salary, but it's a great wayof getting quality players in on perhaps half
of their wages or negotiated less evena quarter or whatever their wages are is

(01:13:45):
certainly not going to be the fallamount if you take somebody or a loan,
So the club would use the loanmarket cleverly. But we've actually got
Wes hard And and Alex Mitchell,and Alex has been out on loan and
he's got good football at Lincoln andup in Scotland. We've got Wallace and
Cuba. But I think with thosefour are aging and Alex mitchelle proven.

(01:14:09):
I think we definitely need to becausewithout Leonard, let's be honest, Lendon
was a revelation plan at the back, and without Leonard and Tanganga we do
need some center backs to cover inthis league. We could have struggled without
Lender being so great, So reallyit's over to Steve Gallen. Neil Harris
I'm sure they've got their shopping list. I'm sure the talks are going.

(01:14:30):
Players contract don't actually finish till thethirty for June, so I think it
might have to be paced until thethirty for June, and then people will
not be taking up their offers.There'll be free free agents, free contracts
off they go and then people startto take them. But I'll also say
Neil Harris has got a bit ofa track record of getting some good players
in before, so I think itmight have been an evening signed. But

(01:14:53):
I need to find out about thatone. But no, we need good
players to replace what we've lost,and that's where you need a decent director
of recruitment, and hopefully Steve Goingis the person, as I say,
working with Will Harris to bring thoseplayers in. If they do, happy
days. If they don't, Ithink we could be struggling somewhere, particularly

(01:15:13):
at the back. Yeah, that'smy thoughts. I think Piel the beauty
of Neil areas he does as yousay, he's brought some good players in.
You don't get him wrong very often, Neil, but he knows what
it takes within a player to bea Millwall player, which is you know
something that I think is key tous as a football club. He knows

(01:15:36):
and understands how strong character that aplayer has to be when he comes to
Millwall and I said, I saidin the past, you can have all
the ability, you can have allthe heart and all the brain decision making,
but if you've got no character andif one of those four is missing,
And I think Neil Harris has gotthis track. He gets in characters

(01:15:59):
that our solid, dependable, workhard, never let you down, and
they get the club. They understandyou've got to put a shift in.
To put it politely, just putthe bloody shift in and go out there
and prove to the fans that you'reup for the fight and then we'll play.
And I think if you can balancea bit of skilled, a bit
of flair with those the character anddetermination in a player, and I think

(01:16:20):
New Harrison has done that quite wellover the years. And I'll be honest
with it sided Gary Rawck. Youknow Gary sins good players as well in
his time, so it's interesting.But I think, ye, the shopping
list is there and it's basically replacingwhat we had in the two that released,
and the loans there could be biglosses there. What I see visualize

(01:16:43):
next year, what I hope andpray is that we come out next year
a bit like Newton did the yearthey got promoted. Because what Newton was.
I remember watching them thinking, God, this is an horrible side to
play against. Then they would bephysical, strong, but they had a
little bit about them up front.They could you know, certainly had two

(01:17:05):
guys that knew where the goal wasin that sense, but you could just
see it was a game that nobodywould relish playing against Luton, and they
battled their way into the Premier League. And I think, with all due
respect the Millwall and I think it'swhat Neil was hinting at at the end
of last season. He believes hecan see the battling qualities in there with

(01:17:29):
this is what I say. Ithink we've got the foundations there. I
think you can see the battling qualitiesin what he's got within that squad.
He just needs to find them oneor two players. And I don't disagree
with you where you say we needstrengthening and whatever. There's always going to
be the little gamble that will Oneof the likes of Alex Ritchell Chinikolei or

(01:17:51):
John L. Grant. So wouldthey stay with us or they go alone?
They could stay with us and turnout the be star players. Like
you say, you've got Wes Hardinagain there, maybe he could come good
again for us. But I thinkNeil sees the battling qualities within this team
and yet we was winning games.One knew at the end of last season,

(01:18:13):
and that's how I think he seesit going forward. But I think
he knows we just need that littlebit extra going forward, that little bit
more of a spark. I thinkhe needs to find a bit of physicality
up front. I think we needsomeone like a young Steve Morrison to come
on board and mobile but physical centerforward. I think that would make a

(01:18:35):
massive difference to this team. You'reright about the pace. I'm hoping that
the Makhu might be one of themgambles because he is quick, that boy,
and I'm hoping that he's strengthened upa bit through the pre season and
you know, because he is rapid. So yeah, there's plenty there to

(01:18:56):
work on. But I think withNeil, he knows the type of players
that he needs and the type ofplayers that he needs to have to be
a good success at Millwall, solet's keep their fingers crossed. Come on,
deal Ted, I'll back you upon that as well, because by
finding the right players we might actuallyturn around and everyone laughs and it's typical

(01:19:17):
Millwell, it's typical Millwall that webeat Lester in Southampton but we lose to
Huddersfield and Rodin right, if you'rein professional football, that is not what
a manager or play. The manageris going to turn around and say,
how the hell did that happen?It's not happening next season. Yeah,
we are going to beat the teamsat the bottom of the league. And

(01:19:38):
why did it happen this season?Is it their attitude? It's only Rodin
right, Well, let's get ridof the players that have got an attitude
of rolling their sleeves up when it'sLester and they fancy it, but I
don't fancy it at Rodin. Sothose players have got to go. That's
an attitude problem. Now with Neil, I think he's got that. A
bit of stealing is tough in seehim where we're bringing players with a character

(01:19:59):
to go way to Rotherham on afreezing cold nightete in February and say we're
winning one meal and this is howwe're going to do it, because I've
got the players to do it.Not let's go and beat sour Fantom where
we're all up for this because it'sa new manager. I can't they bothered
the day against Huddersfield because I hudField and Rotherham. Are you telling me
that they're that good that they couldmatch us? And then you can't have
that seismic shift between the two typesof results. So I think he's got

(01:20:23):
equally out across the whole season.Say we're going to be Dan Dart the
beat, We're going to be creativewhen we have to, and we're going
to have one or two people upfront that could score us eight niney ten
goals each and we will be ina strong position. But we can't have
this fluctuation where we fancy it andbeat the top teams and we lose to
the bottom sides. That's not howyou stay in the league and that's not
how you get into the playoffs atleast. No, it's a consistency thing

(01:20:45):
for you, an't it. Youknow when you look at the very end
of the season where we had fivewinners on the spin and then that's consistent.
You can you can stom up themde feet after five wins if you
go out and then you win thenext five as well, you know,
and I think you're right. That'swhat he's going to be looking for.
Is that consistency. And you can't, as you say, go to the
likes of Rodham Whilst we shouldn't havelost that game, but we did.

(01:21:09):
The fact of the matter is wedid, and we did lose the game
exactly the same against Haddersfield we struggleda q they were botton of the league.
We struggled. Well, you know, so there's a if you're in
professor theme, there aren't there.Yeah, you're looking at Dave Browsford used
marginal gains something. There's some biggames here. How did we lose to
the bottom teams. Let's work thatone out and let's shure it up.

(01:21:30):
Let's deal with it, you know, because that is in effect nine twelve
points. Well, all of asudden we're punching in the playoffs, you
know, so there's there will bean analysis of how they played and Hudo
played and had to get the bestsong out of some of the players.
And how we're going to win awayfrom home and how we're going to play
at home. So yeah, it'sa lot to look forward to. But

(01:21:50):
I think Steve Gallon and Neil Harristhe recruitment, as I mentioned earlier in
the show, was absolutely vital gettingthe right players. Well that's it now
until the July monthly show. Phil, thanks coming on mate, no problems.
Loved it, Ted you two,Thank you very much. It's been
a pleasure of mars Is always,and thank you very much to those listening.

(01:22:11):
In the meantime, enjoy the Euros. The first game kicks off on
Friday during the fourteenth when hosts Germanyfaced Scotland. Two days later, England
will place Serbia in their first groupgame. All the Bests are the only
two home home nations that are participatinguntil next time. Keep it said on
the streets out there.