Episode 241: To Love Queerly: Queer Characters & Games We Love

This week Sam sits down with Jordyn and Victoria to talk about queer characters and games that we love. Recorded on Valentine's Day.

What We're Playing
Potionomics
Fire Emblem Engage
Warlords Battlecry III
Age of Empires
Devour
Avatar Generations

What We're Reading
Ophie's Ghosts by Justina Ireland
Babel by R.F. Kuang
Black Buck by Mateo Askaripour
Dawn of Yangchen by F.C. Yee

What We're Drinking
Ace Cider
Selkie Tea
Death by Chocolate Stout
Water, water flavored water

Episode Transcript

(00:32):
Hello, and welcome to the NotchreMama's Gamer podcast, the podcast where we
talk about games and gaming from afeminist perspective. I went back to the
old intro. Oh my god,that was like ten years and I went
back to the old intro. Boatyou know what. We're keeping it because
this is episode two hundred and fortyone of the podcast and we have things

(00:54):
to talk about. My name isSamantha black Man, and I'm an associate
professor here Produe University in West Lapiet, Indiana, and I am joined tonight
by my fabulous co hosts, JordanLakomski and Victoria Breaker. Hey, how

(01:14):
y'all doing? I missed y'all.I get a week without y'all and don't
know how to act. Oh,hey are you doing good? So Jordan,
how are you? Who are you? I'm doing well, as you
said, I'm Jordan. I workas an environment artist at That's No Moon,

(01:36):
a company based in Los Angeles whereI'm working on things and stuff continually
TBD. Excited to share it whenI can, but yeah, for the
moment, just hanging out on thisValentine's Day with good friends, lovely cats,
and my partner. Yeah. Well, We're excited to hear about your

(02:00):
things and stuff when we can.Okay, So I gotta ask this because
I was talking last week. Wewere talking. I was talking to Trey
Worthworm, who was also in LosAngeles, and it was ninety five degrees.
Is it still so blooming hot?Um? No, I do remember

(02:21):
that day, and it definitely camelike a sandwich between two pretty cold days.
And I say cold relatively coming fromthe Midwest. But yeah, no,
it's it's pretty good now. ButI remember that day because it's been
solidly like fifties to sixties, andif you open up your windows, it
feels colder inside. So I amlucky that is not the case because I

(02:45):
love stealing my partner's hoodies and wearingthem during work. And that day was
miserable because that was a no hoodieday. That was a no hoodie day.
I get you. I get you, all right. So Victoria,
how are you? Who are you? I am doing all right. I

(03:08):
am in a hoodie right now,So it is a hoodie day. It's
a good day. Me too.It's a good day. Um. I
am a PhD candidate at Perdue andRhetoric and Composition, but I study all
things games, specifically games, gamecontrollers, and gamer identity. And I'm

(03:30):
just kind of embroiled in that rightnow, be deep in data. I'm
trudging through it. You're good,You're good. It's gonna be good.
It's gonna be fine. We gotthis. It's gonna be fine. All

(03:52):
right. So we'll start with ourusual what's you're playing, what you're reading,
what you're drinking, And we willstart with you, Victoria, what
have you been playing lately? Thesame old playing follow Out seventy six,
because you know, I gotta finishthe season. I gotta get those stuffies.
And then the next season is starting. I think in like two weeks

(04:15):
when I'm in Albuquerque it starts.But the next season is all about Cryptids,
and so I have to do thatone. I love Cryptids. I
love Mothman. There's supposed to bea Mothman stuffy and I'm here for that.
Finishing Grounded and playing Call of DutyBlack Ops a Cold War, sorry
not sorry, and recently got WarloLord's Battlecry three working on computers again on

(04:43):
multiplayer. And this is great becauseit's it's a game that we love.
It's from two thousand and four.And so we keep limbing it along onto
every news system, and for acouple of years it wouldn't work, and
we find only figured out a newworkaround. I don't know why it works.
I'm not asking any questions about whyit works, but it does work.

(05:05):
So we have the Steam version installed, but we also bought and installed
the Gog version, and then youboot it from the Steam app and the
game works. So what happened beforeis that it would kick you out of
multiplayer, and also the iron Manmode wouldn't work, so you know,
you level super slow if you're ifthere's risk of your hero not dying,

(05:29):
but an Iron Man mode, yourhero dies and it's all over and it
deletes it from the system. Andso you know that's a good way to
be. But now it works.And now we've been playing too much Warlord's
Battlecry three because all of us areapparently stuck in two thousand and four.
I was wondering what that was becauseI keep seeing it pop up on my

(05:49):
on my screen that you're playing thisgame like through the Steam app, and
I'm like, what is this andwhy is she playing it on It's it's
it's all two thousand and four andI was able. So there's the hero
dot XLR file and that's where yourheroes are located. And I saved my

(06:09):
file from a laptop way back inthe day, and I found the USB
that had it on it and Iloaded it in. And I think mine
is the only surviving hero. Butmine is a tinkerer, so I can
create items for our heroes. Andso I just sit there and like cast

(06:30):
spells to create item in people's bases, and just chest after chests after chest
of item, and it's all aboutlike protecting my hero to make sure if
they don't die because they are supersquishy, even though they're level forty eight,
super squishy. But yeah, sothat's it's Warlord's battle Cry three.
It's from two thousand and four,and we limp it along on every new
system we get. And in thatsame vein, I've been playing the Age

(06:51):
of Empire's remaster. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I know, I'm just
just hanging in like the late nineties, early two thousands computer games, real
time strategies, That's what I'm doingright now. But you will also be
happy to know that I found anew horror game to play. Oh my

(07:12):
god, it's called Devour. Itwas released in two thousand and twenty one,
so at least it's a new oneand it's not from two thousand and
four. And it's gonna be great. Whom everybody that watches your stream,
you just got to find two otherpeople to play it with us, because

(07:33):
it's a four person game. I'mgonna play it on stream, and it's
gonna be glorious and wonderful. Ohyeah, yeah it is. I'm sure.
I can see the nightmares. Ican see the nightmares. It's cool.
It's cool. You know, that'snot true. I don't have nightmares,
but I'm horrible with jump scares.For one's good for it? Oh

(08:01):
yeah, lovely? Yeah, becauseyeah, um, I physically react so
violently to jump scares um that,like I get muscle soreness the next day.
I told you I screamed and kickedmy wallum from one of the jump

(08:22):
scares in this one. So ohyeah, you know, Nick through his
mouse. So it's it's gonna begreat. It's gonna be wonderful. It's
a great new horror game. Andwe're we're saving people from cultists. They're
possessed cultists, and we are savingthem. Oh, that sounds like a

(08:45):
good time. Sounds like a goodtime. We're also almost done with Grounded,
but that's less important than I founda horror game to a torture you
with. I mean what I mean? What? Yeah? No? Oh
lovely? Okay, what about you? Jordan? Which playing? Please don't
say some horror game. I amnot m though I realized. I don't

(09:11):
think we've ever all played a horrorgame together. And I think that's good
because when I join us for Devour, I want to come play. I
can't come play with us, Jordan. I could try, but I don't
think either of you has heard megive like an actual, like I am
scared scream and all of my friendshave to pause to laugh for five minutes.

(09:35):
Because sounds like a good time.Quality, That is quality. It
sounds like a good time. Solet's write this down. Jordan's in just
writing it down right now. Jordanis the third. Now we need a
fourth. And I started listening toit, I'm like, okay, yeah,
it sounds like a fake scream,like I'm just making it up.

(10:01):
It's really weird and awkward. Butyeah, if I hurt your ears,
I apologize, that's fine. That'sfine, but yeah, I am not
playing any horror games at the moment, or well, okay, one,
I guess you could kind of sayis, but that's ironic because I actually

(10:22):
did give my Scared Scream a fewdays ago because of a bug in it.
But anyway, that game is DyingLight two. Me and my partner
have been like on and off playingit. We've been really trying to finish
it because we bought it when itcame out last year, so they just
hit there one year release anniversary.But we bought it right before I moved,

(10:45):
so then we stopped, and thenwe picked it up again right before
Christmas break, so we really aretrying to finish it because we do like
the park core element, the characterand the stories. Okay, I'm more
interested in the side characters. ButI will say for anyone that did pick
it up when it first came outand put it down because it was very

(11:13):
broken. It was very buggy.They had some frustrating design elements where there's
gear and equipment you have that ifyou're playing with someone else, doesn't level
up at the same time, soyou have to go back and replay the
game on your own to level itup, and it literally makes the game

(11:35):
on coop unplayable if you don't wantto replay the game twice, because traversing
through the layer sections without that updatedequipment is just very frustrating. But anyway,
all that being said, if youplayed it and dropped it because of
that, it might be a timeto check it out yet, because they've
had a huge anniversary update where theyfixed a ton of bugs. They fix

(12:01):
the audio so that if one personskips audio, it skips it for both
of you. The audio is morein sync. They got rid of that
equipment update thing where only one person'supdated. So many good improvements and it
feels and plays not like a newgame, but it is so much more

(12:22):
smooth. There are still a fewcrashes, but yeah, we're having a
lot more fun with it, andthe updates are definitely worth the revisit if
people played it before. Then.Other than that, I'm doing kind of
my regular games, Deep Rock,Galactic, Pokemon, Violet, still making

(12:43):
my way through it. I thinkit's time to get a new switch controller
because I think finally one of mineis failing. But then new ones.
I started playing Avatar Generations and PotionOmics and last podcast about our top five
games, and one of my Ithink it was honorable mentions was Avatar Generations,

(13:05):
which follows Avatar the Last Airbender.It's a mobile game, and I
need to get through the first tutorialparts to give probably a more honest take
on it, but for now it'sokay. Ah. I mean, I'll

(13:31):
love anything that takes me back throughAvatar and stuff, but I am very
happy that it doesn't just follow thestory episode per episode. It does have
you like dive into a few sidequests and it is interesting how you can
build your team. The thing thatI'm kind of hesitant on it is Wow,

(13:54):
it throws a lot at you atthe beginning, all at once.
There are so many collectible, somany unlockables, There's so much UI and
pages and different screens. It's alittle bit difficult to initially take in,
even if the tutorial itself is guidingyou pretty well. And I understand it's

(14:20):
a mobile game and that you haveto keep people coming back for a certain
level, but I really wish gamesto weekly or even monthly rewards instead of
daily rewards, because if anything,I get more dejected and I'm less likely
to come back once I missed thatdaily reward, and this is a reset,

(14:46):
so go ahead and finish an notasking about the daily reward later.
Oh yeah, but that was basicallythey do the daily rewards, and I
don't know like the pattern for it, because they literally just launched and they're
doing like daily rewards for launch andat fourteen day you unlock something, at
thirty day you unlock something, andthey're doing it just within their initial launch

(15:07):
window. So if you miss evenone day, you're not going to get
those. That's what I was gonnaask, Okay, go ahead, and
I missed them, and I'm upset, and now I'm like, I understand
the need to bring players back,but I wish there was weekly rewards in
mobile games more because the daily rewards. And I'm not saying don't have them,

(15:30):
but I can no longer ever unlockcertain things because of those daily rewards.
So yeah, I'll get through alittle bit more of it and see
if my opinion changes. But it'sokay. And then the other game that
I'm playing that I just started asPotion Nomics, thank you, Sam,
and I absolutely love it. Ilove the art style, I love the

(15:56):
characters, I love the gameplay.That's a mix of like card deck building
and dating sim and it's you're you'rehelping build potions for warriors to go on
adventures. And early on in thegame, if you spend time with Mint,
they joke about, oh yeah,this town really needs someone that can

(16:21):
make cookies. And I'm like,I would play so many games of different
variants of this. I want agame in the city that's a cookie maker.
I want a game in the citythat's a sword maker. Um,
I would play all of them.That's gonna be DLC. That would be
so funny if they made like that. DLC was like different jobs. You

(16:41):
could have like a cooking sim anda sword making sim or a like weapon
making sim. That would it feltokay? So yeah, Postionomics U.
I streamed postion Nomics this weekend becausewe ran a two day charity campaign.

(17:03):
I was gonna do three days,but then I ended up streaming like fourteen
fifteen hours or something ridiculous like thatin two days, and I was like,
I cannot stream three days and goto work on Monday, and um,
but so I streamed like two daysand one day we did Wildflowers.
The next day we did postion Omicsand I had been wanting postion Omics since

(17:26):
it came out and just had notbought it for myself because I was like,
no, because a bunch of otherlike magic games came out at the
same time. I think that likePotion, what was the other one,
Potion something where you played the alchemistwho went into the city and it's been

(17:51):
a long day and I've had lotsof allergy meds um and then there was
a second one. So I hadplayed so many magic games like within that
launch period that I was like,I'll just wait, and I'm kicking myself
because yes, the other games weregood, but postion Omics is definitely the
best of all of them, andso I'm kind of hooked on postion Omics

(18:15):
right now. It's such a fungame, Like I said, oh,
because we were playing games to raisemoney for the Transgender Law Center, right
because this was the launch This wasthe the launch weekend for the game that
must not be named, And intwo days, I'm so happy that we
raised like what do we raise onethousand? We raised more than that,

(18:38):
because there I need to check,but we raised more than a thousand dollars
in two days, which was whichwas super nice, which was super nice.
And so, and a lot ofpeople ended up playing Postionamics. There
were people were just sitting and watchingand people were like, why haven't you

(18:59):
played this game before? Clearly Ineed this game, And people were just
buying it and starting to play itwhile we were streaming. I was streaming
and I would see like in alittle corner that so and so was playing
postion Nomics would pop up because thepeople were just buying it and playing it.
It was really cool to see somany people like, really loving this
inclusive magic game that has queer folks, non binary folks, folks of color

(19:25):
without being assholes. Um. Soit was it was nice. It was
nice, and I'm loving Postionamics theJordan Were you finished? I was going
before? I keep going, Ohyeah no, No, that Postionamics was
my last one. Okay. Theother game that I've been hooked on is
a Fire Emblem Engaged. I ama see and I've been playing like tactical

(19:52):
and strategy games for so long,like decades, and I go away for
them from them for a while.Um, and then one will just come
along and have me hooked. Um. So the one that's had me hooked
lately, Um, is uh fireemblem engage. UM, And I know

(20:18):
we talked think we talked about thison the point. I think we talked
about this on the podcast before.But I think that, Um, it's
been interesting because it's gotten it's caughtsome flak from reviewers. Um. No,
I think I talked about I mighthave talked about this in class and
not on the podcast. Um,it's gotten gotten some flack from reviewers about

(20:41):
like how it's not as good,it's not a good fire emblem, it's
not as good as fire Emblem threeHouses. And I'm like, oh,
but I get it. Thank you. It's twelve hundred and thirty dollars from
the Transgender Law Center. Hell yeah, um, one two three. Oh
see now I feel like that.I feel like going back in and donating

(21:03):
four more dollars just so it's onetwo three four. But it's been pretty
interesting that it's like, oh,I think I get it because for a
lot of people, their first fireemblem was fire Emblem three Houses, which
was fire emblem meets dating sim andso a lot of people thought that's what

(21:29):
fire emblem was, and that's neverwhat fire emblem was. So this one
goes back to it's still got somesocial elements, not as many social elements,
and they're not as completely integrated intothe gameplay in your progress as they
were in Fire Emblem Three Houses,but it's gone back to an earlier kind

(21:53):
of version of Fire Emblem that I'mhere for. I don't mind social sims.
I like socials, but I alsowhen I'm playing like tactical games or
strategy at games, I don't mindhaving something mapped on top of it.
But if I'm turning to one,like to a tactical game or turning to
a strategy game, I'm usually turningto it because that's what I want to

(22:15):
play, and not necessarily the socialelement. I played Three Houses, never
finished Three Houses because it was therewas too much social sim in it,
Like you would literally like have tospend god knows how long playing the social
sem even before you could go backout and battle. And I'm like,

(22:37):
but I came here for the battle. I didn't come here for this.
If I want this, I'll goplay this somewhere else. And I feel
like, maybe after I finish Engage, I'll go back and give three Houses.
I'll restart Three Houses and see howI feel about that. A second
time three. But I'm loving fireand bloom Gauge. I really am all

(23:02):
has to say. I love fireand bloom Engage. Um. And it's
been tearing my hands up because I'vebeen playing and switching handheld mode and switching
handheld mode. It just murders myhand. It murders my hand. But
I've been playing it at night,either on the couch or when I go
to bed. Um, and Ineed to stop doing that so much because
it's causing me a lot of pain. All right, So that's what we're

(23:26):
playing. Oh my gosh, we'rejust getting to plan, all right.
What are we drinking, Victoria?What's you drinking? I'm drinking water?
Oh, water is good though.I like water. I like water flavored
water. It's water, it's waterflavored water for those of us who are

(23:48):
dehydrated. There you go, thereyou go. Can't highly recommend promotion hashtag
promotion water flavored water. Okay,what about you join what you're drinking?
I am stepping away from the IPA'sto go back to my favorites, which

(24:11):
are stouts, and I am drinkingDeath by Chocolate, which is a German
chocolate cake, Imperial Stout Oh mygod, that sounds amazing. Oh wait,
German chocolate cake that has coconut,yes or no. In most of
the cakes that I've seen, yes, But in this description, I'm mostly

(24:33):
just tasting chocolate. And I've beentrying to find more information and labels as
to like what the flavors are actuallycoming from, if it does have some
of those in there, or ifit's just artificially flavored. And I can't
find it. But it tastes likechocolate cake. It's not like super sweet

(24:56):
to where it's a where I wouldconsider a dessert drink. It has that
chocolatey taste. Um so, yeah, I'm really liking it nice all right,
Yeah, because I don't like coconut, it sounded good and I was
like, oh but wait, thatprobably has coconut. Um so I am.

(25:18):
I have a bevy of beverages.Like I said, my allergies have
been kicking my behind. Um So, I had a m a hot tea.
I had the and I love thistea. It's from Dryad Tea.
It is called Silky. It isa ginger lemon herbal tea. So I

(25:41):
had a big cup of that andit was really good and um I also
have a ACE pear cider um,which is really good. It's a it's
a bit dry because they don't addsugar to it um. They don't ask

(26:02):
sugar to it, which is nice. And it's uh for for folks who
are concerned, because I know there'ssome I know for that, there's someone
who listens who's always looking for agluten free cider. It is a gluten
free cider um. It says glutenfree and vegan. I wonder why they
put vegan one. There will whoput who's putting animal buy products in their

(26:22):
fruit ciders? Whoever that is,stop it. But it's a gluten free
hiter um, and it's really good. I love their ciders. I like
their specifically their pear and their pineappleum. Those are the two that I
buy from Ace generally um. Andthen I have water again, water flavored

(26:45):
water, um, water flavored water. This week, I usually have water
flavored water, even if I havesparkling water, because I like water flavored
water. All right, that's whywe're drinking um. What are we reading?
We went out of order? Ohmy god, I'm blaming on the
antihistamies. I'm taken Victoria what' you'rereading. I am in the weeds,

(27:10):
so I'm not reading anything for fun. Oooh yeah, who, I'm so
boring this week. It's great.It's okay. We all have those weeks.
I bring that primetime content. Whatabout you, Georgan? What you
reading? I am also in betweenbooks at the moment, but I did

(27:34):
just finish The Dawn of yang Chin, which is the Avatar Chronicles by FCE.
Absolutely loved it. I would recommendpeople who tried the Rise of Kyoshi
and didn't necessarily like it might likethis book. I liked both, but
the reason why I suggest trying itout is the pacing and the character setup

(27:59):
is very differ. Where Kiyoshi hadlike a very large group of people was
following, but was primarily from oneperson's a perspective, The Dawn of yang
Chin is a much smaller cast andit switches between perspectives on chapters. So

(28:21):
definitely a different pace, different timeperiod, different characters. So yeah,
I'd definitely give it a try.And then other books that I have either
just just started or have bought,Our Video Games and Agency by Bettina Bodi
and Froun by Timothy's On and Inheritancetrilogy by Mka Jemensen, and I'm struggling

(28:48):
which one to read first because iknow I'm not going to get through all
of them at the same time.Yea and current Lee Backer Kit has the
fifth season Tabletop RPG, which isbased on the Inheritance trilogy. UM going,
So that sounds super fun and interestingand I really want to get into

(29:10):
that story in that. Lord,see the sounds like you already decided which
one you reading first, So,UM, I guess it's my turn.
So I've been reading Babel by RebeccaQuin. I would, but it's actually

(29:33):
this is R. F. Qui, the artist of the artists. The
author is UM. But it's thesame author of the what is it the
Poppy Wars Um And it's a littledeep, right, It's a little deep.
It's a little dark, UM.And uh so I need something lighter

(29:56):
to read along with it, UMAnd I think i' talked about this last
time. I had picked up UmJustina Ireland's middle grade novel um Ohi's Ghosts
UM, which was pretty amazing,and Spot a Girl and the Young Girl
in the nineteen twenties, UM whosefather gets murdered by the clan and starts

(30:19):
to see ghosts and like her connecther familial connection to ghosts, and like
helping like spirits pass over, etcetera. So, um, I finished
that. It was a It wasa I really enjoyed that book. I
really enjoyed that book. As theysay middle grade, I mean, and

(30:40):
I don't know, I don't know. I would say more ya than middle
grade. But you're known. That'sme, that's me. I mean I'm
a little protective because I think thatmiddle grade kids can still get a little
spooked by some of that stuff.Um, but that's okay because you know
your your mileage, maybe very youcan you can determine your own own Uh.

(31:02):
Kidlets, kidlets like maturity level whatthey can I can't handle, and
figure out if that works for them. Um. So I finished that one.
But so I'm still reading Babble.So I needed another book that was
a little lighter because I needed aI needed a buddy read for Babbel because
I can't just read back babble.Um. So I started reading Rose is

(31:26):
out here tapping me on the leg. I think she wants something. I
don't know what it is. Um. I started reading Um black Buck by
Oh I'm gonna I'm gonna murder.Their last name, mateo Ascarapoor is a
sk a r I pou are UM. And the book's called Black Book,

(31:52):
uh. And it's about a youngblack man who has four years had like
all of this academic promise UM.But he's been spece twenty two and since
he graduated my school, he hasbeen working at Starbucks and living in his
mama's basement pretty much. But helikes working at Starbucks. And he's working

(32:12):
at Starbucks in this in this uh, this fancy office building. UM.
And so one day, like anentrepreneur that's like on the eight hundred and
fifty seventh floor, not really butlike high up uh in the building.
Right, so try to denote somekind of some kind of success, UM

(32:34):
offers him a job as a salesman. UM. So they immediately rename him
Buck. And so it's a it'sa it's satirical, right, it's a
it's satirical. So it's a satiricalbook about UM race and business and sales
and success UM. And it's prettyfunny so far. I'm I'm only a

(33:00):
couple of chapters in UM, butI'm really enjoying it so far. I
hope it doesn't like fizzle out quickly. I'm hoping it doesn't fizzle out quickly.
So um, but I'm really I'mreally enjoying this one. It's called
black Buck, and I'm like,there's a play on definitely black Buck,
right, the the the racist stereotypeof the big black buck and Starbucks get

(33:22):
it black buck? Um. Souh yeah, I'm really enjoying that one
so far. That's that is mythat's my buddy read for babble. So
that UM. All the time I'mlooking at uh race and culture and language
and racism and all the other shipthat's going on in Babbel intentionally, so

(33:43):
um, I need something to kickback on and just kind of chill.
I don't I don't know why Ithink that race, that race based satire
about racism is a kickback. Butyeah, there's a kickback. You know,
your mileage may vary. So that'swhat we're playing, what we're reading

(34:05):
and what we're drinking UM this weekbecause we're recording on Valentine's Day or Singles
Awareness Day as some people call it. Um, we are gonna be talking
about um, our favorite um.What what what? What's the way we

(34:30):
put it. Wait, what isthe way we put it? We said
our favorite queer UM game, SlashRomances. Is that. What we said
is that the way we defined it, queer characters and games we love.
There we go, queer characters andgames we love that. Jordan came up
with that that topic and I thoughtit was absolutely amazing. Um, so

(34:53):
we're gonna talk about queer characters ingames we love. Um and Jordan,
So if this was your idea,why don't you start? Sounds good?
Yeah, Now, I was kindof going through the previous games that I've

(35:13):
played, and I chose a fewdifferent characters and games. One was based
on more of a personal experienced,one was kind of more the game as
it is as a whole in itself, and then one is a group of
characters and is more narrative based.So I'll start with the one that I

(35:37):
chose based on my personal experience.And this was the first, I think,
outside of an MMO, this wasthe first game I played that allowed
character customization, and it was thefirst game that I played that had player
and character choice and a certain degreeof agency into which those choices would have

(36:01):
an impactful outcome, and that overallgame in series is Mass Effect, and
obviously this game has a few differentprogresses and issues with it, But the
character and person the storyline that Ifollowed was leara Tisni. She was the

(36:29):
first character I played with as femshipthat I just saw a lot of myself
in Lear. She loved history,she loved archaeology. She was very well
spoken, but shy, sometimes awkward, and I loved building this character and
traveling across the galaxy finding out moreabout her, her people, where she

(36:52):
herself wanted to grow towards. Andthen they had a big DLC called Oh
gosh, you with the name ofDalc, but you had an entire DEALC
dedicated to a quest with her,And yeah, Mass Effect and Lear will

(37:13):
always hold a certain remembrance and placein my heart. Obviously, Mass Effect
as a series has had lots ofdiscussion what it allows players to do based
on whether you're playing as femisp ormale. Shepherd, certain ways that handled

(37:34):
characters in the recent series Andromeda withHanley Abrahams and how they adopted to that.
So definitely one of the conversations thatfalls into your faves can be problematic
and you can still like I hadan impact on you, but still acknowledge
those But Leara and my journey withher will always hold a place in my

(38:00):
heart. Let me just say,Yard named the star after me, and
she will always hold a space ofmy heart too. I'm so and I
was so It's funny because y'all mostpeople know Mass Effect is like one of
my favorite, if not favorite gameseries, Um, the trilogy, not

(38:22):
Andromeda. Um, because Andromeda hurtmy feelings first thing they coming in and
being like all the N sevens they'redead, and I was like, Nope,
I'm gonna play this game no more. But Lear kind of holds a
special place in my heart as well. And I am so excited for the
new Mass Effect game because all we'veseen is like a teaser trailer when they

(38:45):
announced it and you see, um, it's clearly Lear walking through this kind
of uh snow swept or snowstormed area, and I'm like, Lear's back.
Maybe I'm not dead, um,because you know she's the uber scientist.

(39:07):
Maybe she maybe she saved me mAnd so I'm super excited for that.
I don't even know if I'm superexcited, if I'm more excited where the
fact that I might be alive,and I don't think I am as famishep
that is um or the fact thatI get to see and engage with Leara
again. Um and uh So I'msuper stoked. I'm super stoked for the

(39:34):
new the new Mass Effect game wheneverit comes, whenever they don't have to
rush it. It's fine. Iwill wait. BioWare, don't rush my
game. Don't make it broken.Um. And it's interesting because they keep
coming out with like more BioWare,I mean more in seven merch, which

(39:54):
makes me wonder like, are theygonna like do a like a prequel and
go back or are they gonna bringthe N sevens back somehow? Um?
Because I sleep purchased an INN seventhneon sign the other day. UM,

(40:16):
don't ask me how I did it. They announced it and it popped up,
um, and it popped up inthe Uh. It popped up in
my email when I was half asleep. So I bought it when I was
still in bed and half asleep.Um. And I because I have to

(40:36):
have it, and it's gonna goover here on the wall next to my
giant N seven banner. Because eventhough by Aware wants to kill off the
n sevens. They will live foreverin my heart. Yeah, I've said
it, Yeah, I know.When I saw that trailer, I screamed.
I was like, oh my gosh, I was back a hundred percent,

(41:00):
A hundred percent. All right,m Victoria, what about you?
So we talked about this earlier thisweek, but I realized as I was
prepping notes for the the podcasts thatI play a decently large number of shooters

(41:23):
and then a decently large number ofreal time strategy games, which kind of
impacts the representation in games that Iplay, and not for the better.
But I was going through the listof characters and the characters that I have

(41:45):
interactions within games that are more characterdriven narrative driven, and I was thinking
about Fallout New Vegas, and Ithink it's one of the more nuanced portrayals
of queer characters in the Fallout series. So in Fallout New Vegas, you

(42:07):
have Arcade Gannon, who is agay character, and then Veronica, who
is a lesbian character, and Sharonwhat is it Sharon Rose of Cassidy,
So Cassidy is a bisexual character.And those are all companions that you can
have and to unlock their their discussionsabout their sexuality and depth. You have

(42:32):
to also select the perks that wouldmake your playable character queer as well.
So to discuss Veronica's storyline in depth, you have to have I think it's
called like say La fem as theperk, and then for Arcade Gannon,
it's confirmed bachelor. And I didn'tplay as much with those characters as my

(42:57):
companions, but I thought they werevery interesting and nuanced in their portrayal.
Because a lot of a lot ofrole playing games that you play, you
can romance any character regardless, andI thought that the giving them defined sexualities
and not changing those sexualities based onwhat the player character was doing gave them

(43:22):
a level of nuance that is kindof rare and role playing games see every
time every time somebody starts talking aboutFallout seventy six, I mean I fall
Out seventy six, Fallout New Vegas, Fallout New Vegas. I kicked myself
because again that is the one Falloutbut I have not played because it was

(43:46):
so broken. It was bad.It was bad on release. Yeah,
I bought it at launch because Ialways did with Fallout games, and it
was just so broken that I ragedquick and I never went back to it,
and I keep saying every time somebodytalks about it, I'm like,
I gotta go back and play thatgame. Now I say it again,

(44:07):
I gotta go back and play thatgame. I'm gonta install it tonight and
play it on something. I ownit. I keep buying it. I
own it on a Steam, Iown it on an Xbox Supports. I
need to play it. I needto just like stop saying I'm gonna play
it and play it. Um,because I'm interested. I'm really interested.
I love I mean, I generallylove Fallout games. Generally. We'll say

(44:30):
that the last couple so much.Yeah, fall Out Fallout four left something
to be desired. You know youryour your tree. A response tree is
just like yes, yes, sarcasmno, but actually yes, yep.
I am a jerk but still gonnado it pretty much. So I'm hoping

(44:54):
that the next Fallout game will bemuch better. But we'll see, we'll
see, and meantime, I needto go back and play New Vegas.
In the meantime, I need togo back and play New Vegas. So
m Jordan had Mass Effective Lyre,which was also on my list, So

(45:14):
I will say, um, anotherthing okay, And this is and I've
talked about this before, queer charactersthat I absolutely love and did not think
that I was not even god,I didn't think I was gonna love the
characters, but I didn't think thegame would be my jam. I'm gonna
say it, dream Daddy, DreamDaddy. I've never been into dating since

(45:39):
right, and I've never really beeninto like romance like novels or romance in
games or any of that stuff,or had not been up to into that
point. And um, like Iplayed started Valley for god knows how long
before I even like went into townand started socializing with people much less started

(46:02):
thinking about getting married in the game, because it's just not something that I
was like really invested in. AndI remember at the time, Trey Russeaurren
was playing Dream Daddy, and Treywas like, Sam, you gotta play
this game. I was like,Tray, I'm not playing a game that
I have no interest. And finallyshe just like Tray and I like text

(46:27):
back and forth every day, whichplaying just to harass one another even if
we're not playing anything. And sofinally I gave in and I was like,
fine, Trey, I played thisgame. I started playing dream Daddy
and was hooked. Dream Daddy endedup being my most played game on the
Nintendo Switch that year. I waslistening to the soundtrack in my car.

(46:52):
I was recommended it to anybody andeverybody who would listen. It was just
like such a good kind of agood an interesting that I would say.
When I say good, I meaninteresting characterization of queer folks, right,

(47:13):
and and it was quite nuanced U. So yeah, I would say that
Dream Daddy was definitely one of myfavorites and still is. From time to
time I'm like, I should goback and play dream Daddy again. Um
yeah, so that would be.That would be my next one. What

(47:36):
about you, Jordan, My nextone is well, I did have favorite
characters overall, more so the gameas a whole that I also was As
you described, it was similar inthis boat. I wasn't expecting it necessarily
to be a game that I enjoyed, but I ended up living a lot.

(48:00):
And that is Boyfriend Dungeon. Ilove the gameplay. I love the
rogue like aspects of going into thedifferent levels of the mall, which is
just one of the dungeons, andit's just a fun game lots of layers

(48:22):
to it. Obviously, they've gotthe sexual puns and jokes you're finding these
swords and these dungeons is Boyfriend Dungeon. But the one thing that I really
enjoyed from a character and narrative aspectthat I haven't seen in a lot of
games in general, but also specificallyand dating SIMS was the level of player

(48:49):
consent on the type of relationship theywanted to have. Because Boyfriend Dungeon allows
you to pursue platonic friendshiped type relationships, that allows you to pursue sexual relationships
that even can kind of go alittle bit in the middle depending on what

(49:10):
you choose to do which characters whereyou can still have a romantic type relationship
with him, but it doesn't haveto be overtly sexual. And regardless of
what you choose, you can stillgive the characters gifts. You can still
max out your hearts and stars witheach character, and I thought that was

(49:31):
incredibly important and something even if thereare other games out there that does it,
this was definitely the first game thatI had experience that allowed you to
choose the type of relationship and bevocally clear with the other characters in the
game on what you were expecting andwanting. Oh, that's so funny because

(49:55):
we did an episode where we interviewedAlexandrea Orlando from kid Fox Games a while
back, and it was I happenedinto all of these games that I wouldn't
normally play, and Boyfriend Dungeon wasanother one. Like I remember mentioning this

(50:15):
one we did the episode. Iwas at I don't know, e three
or Packs or something, and Iwas with friends and they wanted to stop
at the booth and play Boyfriend Dungeon. And I was like really, and
they were like, look, westopped at all these booths for you.
So I was like fine, andso I just kind of stood there and

(50:37):
I was looking at Door Fortress whilethey looked at Boyfriend Dungeon. So I
didn't really pay much attention to itwhen we were there, but when it
came out, I started playing iton a whim. I started playing it
on a whim and was immediately hooked. Was immediately hooked. Right, it's

(50:57):
the the Dungeon Crawler aspect of it, because I was like, dat your
weapons? What no U? Andit was it was such a good game.
It was such a good game.See, I have to open my
mind more and get outside of myusual and let myself play some other things.
And because Boyfriend Dungeon was a blast, it really was. It really

(51:21):
was joy is this that wasn't eventhat wasn't even on my list, but
Jordan's skill and all my answers,I will stay with that game. And
they they are very upfront about it, um at the beginning, and they
let players know, Um, thereis a character in there that is very

(51:43):
is a stalker and that really,even with the warning, it still threw
me off a bit. And ina game where I was exploring these relationships
and just having a good time anddelving dungeons with my partners, it definitely
when it came up it ooh yeahyeah yeah. They caught some flak about

(52:07):
that at the beginning, um becausea lot of people felt that the content
warning wasn't strong enough. Because itwas. It was pretty it was pretty
startling. It was pretty startling.Um yeah, all right, um,
Victoria, what about you? Doyou have another one? Can we talk

(52:29):
about our favorite uh or you know, probably everybody's favorite non binary icon Kirby
confirm non binary character. And I'veloved Kirby since I had a Nintendo as

(52:50):
a kid, like, Kirby isamazing. Kirby sucks things up and swallows
them and gets the powers of thethings he spelt, like, what could
be better than that? Nothing?There's no shame in Kirby. There's no
body shame. Kirby wears dresses.Kirby wears suits like Kirby is just an

(53:13):
icon. Herby is Kirby. AndI loved the most recent Kirby Kirby in
the Forgotten World. It's because youhad post apocalyptic Kirby. Kirby sucked up
the traffic cone, vending machines,traffic cones, whole cars, you name
it, at the eighties Montage,at the Sunset across the bridge. That

(53:37):
was such a good gang. Thatwas such a good gang. I'll go
for that one. I literally justordered my first custom key cap that is
Kirby from the Forgotten Lands with anice cap his ice powers. You gotta

(53:58):
have to send us pictures of allyour custom keycaps. Yes, I'm so
excited. I need. I needa keyboard to just hold custom key caps.
I don't know why, but Ido. I mean it would be
nice because it's incredibly hard to makecustom keycaps within the allowances of a regular

(54:23):
keyboard, like even if you know, even if you keep in my mind,
it's yeah, it's very hard.And to find the correct combination of
custom keycaps that can still press downas a struggle. So I agree more
space between key caps. I keepseeing those little side ones that are meant

(54:44):
to be just like number pads,and I'm like, yes, one of
those that has like lights. Ican get one of those and I could
just plug it in and keep iton my desk, not need to use
it, would just be able tosee it, because a lot of them
are not usable, especially if they'repretty tall rightum, and have things on

(55:07):
top, so they're not really usable. But they're good. They're so cute.
I need that in my life.So we can agree on Kirby.
We could definitely agree on Kirby.Yeah, I was. I was doing
some research about it, and inJapan it is firmly non binary. Kirby

(55:29):
participates in girl only events and inguy only events and boy only events.
Kirby doesn't care. Kurby is includedeverywhere. Kirby is a non binary character.
There we go. I'll go forthat. I'll go for that.
So let's see um latest favorite.And this is also because I've been playing

(56:04):
a lot of a lot of notonly like strategy and tactical games, but
also farming simulators and city builders.I've been in a very constructive mood lately
rather than destructive, which is interesting. But I have gone back to Wild

(56:27):
Flowers because they've got a big updateor big ish. It's big for me
because I have always hated the outfitthat Tara and Wild Flowers wears, so
they're coming up with an update laterthis month where Violet, who's the florist

(56:50):
in town, is going to opena boutique and you can, finally,
thank the gods, change Tara's clothes. But that being said, I have
always enjoyed that game, and I'menjoying playing it again. I started a
new say because I was playing itwith my class and I wanted to start

(57:12):
it from the beginning, where we'vegot we've got gay character, we've got
gay male characters, we've got lesbians, we've got non binary characters. We've
got all kinds of amazing characters,and a good representation of queerness kind of
across the board in Wildflowers, andI think it's really interesting that we get

(57:42):
such a good we get such asolid representation in what gets called a quote
unquote cozy game, because y'all know, I got kind of a bias towards
the notion of cozy and that cozyesthetic, because I find that most of
the times those cozy communities has thatfight me are so extremely problematic and xenophobic

(58:07):
and way too accepting of all kindsof trash and the name of in the
name of quote unquote positivity slash toxicpositivity. But yeah, Wildflowers, because
I've been playing Wildflowers again and I'mreally enjoying it. I'm really enjoying it,

(58:32):
especially since I've been trying to spendless time at my desk when I'm
not like actively teaching or streaming,So I've been playing a lot of stuff.
And I think we talked about thisbecause I bought myself. I bought
myself another PS five for Christmas sothat I could have a PS five in

(58:53):
the game room and could They wouldn'thave the excuse of, well, I
want to play got a War,so I have to sit at my desk
because my only PS five is inmy office. Um, now No,
Now I can sit on the couch, but spending more time on the couch
playing, um, you know,playing games that I otherwise wouldn't necessarily be

(59:14):
able to play unless I was sittingat my desk. So things like like
Wildflowers. I went on PC,so I spent a lot of time playing
it, you know, on myPC at my desk. But now I
can play it on my stem deckon the couch. U. So yeah,
yeah, I would say Wildflowers andalso Amira, Amira Amia. It's

(59:37):
the town doctor and Wildflowers. AndI feel the need to romance her all
the time. One because she's supercute and two because she's like the eldest
romanceable character. Um, I thinkshe's in I want to say she's in

(01:00:00):
her late thirties according to the bio. Um, everybody else is so blooming
young. And I know my characterthey're playing, Tara is not necessary,
is not older. She's she's fairlyyoung too. But I mean we play
into our characters quite a bit,so I'm still like, oh no,

(01:00:22):
I can't say I can't romance thisperson. They're way too young. They're
not too young for Tara, They'reway too young. For meum, and
thirty six is still young when you'remy age, but it's it's better than
the twenty somethings. All right,Jordan, what about you got another one?

(01:00:45):
I doo um. This one ismore narrative based in that you it's
not a dating sin. The playerchoice doesn't really have an impact on it.
It's just a thick part of thestory and you interact with these characters
as you continue, and it's definitelyone. Both the game and the storyline

(01:01:08):
itself is a game and narrative thatI think will stick with me a long
time, just because I loved itso much, but also it is a
very mixed emotions of feel good andsadness. And the overall game that I'm

(01:01:29):
talking about is Kna Bridge of Spirits, because that whole game in itself deals
with helping spirits and people that havepassed onto the next world or the next
life, but in the meantime you'rehelping them deal with unresolved goals or trauma,
So the whole experience, regardless ofwhich characters or aspect of the story

(01:01:53):
you're dealing with. I had tostop at every major juncture because I was
crying. Both feel good in theheart that you're helping and bringing the land
and these characters back together and helpingthem acknowledge both the strengths of what they've
accomplished and accepting the sorrows that havepassed. It's just a very powerful game

(01:02:19):
and a mixture of feel good andsadness because of the content that you're dealing
with and one of the character arcsthat you deal with in one of the
three major sections, I could seean argument for four, but one of
the three major sections are two charactersnamed Adira and Hannah. A lot of

(01:02:40):
people describe them as lesbian farmers,but they farm, they fish, their
blacksmiths, they build a lot ofstuff, and their storyline is just yeah,
like I said, the rest ofthe in Tantem and the rest of
the game, it's just something that'sgonna stick with me. I absolutely love

(01:03:05):
their characters. The game is beautifullyrendered, and just seeing this story of
two people that loved each other somuch and built all these things through their
love and then had certain struggles thatthey had to overcome. And then one
thing that I really struggle with deathand queerness is obviously we many types of

(01:03:28):
media fall into the Barrier Gaze Trope, and I felt like this one because
of the way it deals with deathand with all the characters that really focused
on not just that aspect, butbringing them back together so they could reunite
and carry their love on and carryon what they were building. And yeah,

(01:03:51):
I would recommend that game to lotsof people. You just have to
play. It is definitely wanted toplay in Spurts again, I was crying
a lot through but oh my gosh, it's so beautiful. It's so good.
That is an amazing game. Ihave not finished it because it is
one that you will hit you inthe fields and you have to you have

(01:04:13):
to put it down. You haveto put it down and and like be
like, I come back to thistomorrow. I can't take anymore this tonight.
It's like having a buddy read forBabel is uh yeah. Yeah.
And it's beautiful. It's beautiful thebest way, as I heard someone describe
it as it's like playing a Pixarmovie. Yeah, no, exactly,

(01:04:41):
It's absolutely beautiful. And then youhave the little rots and you could put
hats on them and dress them upand yeah, yeah, the rots are
these little um critters that you findalong the way that you can use almost
pickment style to help you. SawPuzzles, um if Yeah, it's on
PS five and Steam um if you. If you are ever looking for just

(01:05:10):
like a super solid adventure game withgreat stories, I highly recommend that game.
I don't know why that game didn'tgain as much traction as I thought
it would. I mean, Ihave my I have my I have my

(01:05:30):
theories, but you know, Idon't know why I didn't gain as much
traction as I thought it was.I highly it can be. Mu,
let's see it. How would Iput this? It can be. It
could be a little more difficult forfolks who are not used to that genre
of game. And maybe that's itbecause I've seen I've seen, just like

(01:05:54):
watching people stream it, um,I had seen some folks that were you
know that I would would call themselvesgamers. Struggle with the struggle with it
a little bit in terms of difficultylevel. I can't remember how how much
you could adjust the difficulty level foraccessibility, but I know that you could

(01:06:21):
adjust it and turn it down,turn it down a bit. But it's
a it's a little fast paced attimes during the battle scenes. Anyway,
or the battle sequences. Yeah,I know. I loved the exploration and
finding the little rods, giving themhats, finding all the collectibles, the

(01:06:41):
memories of the people you're helping.But yeah, the boss battles and the
some of the mid battles, Oh, that I was who I was honestly
not expecting because I went into thisjust like seeing the renders and the trailer,
which was very narrative based. Ihadn't actually seen too much of the
gameplay other than the exploration and anythingexploration, I'm like, oh yeah,

(01:07:03):
So when I got to the battles, I was like, what is calling
on? What just happen? Yeah, I would still suggest people try it.
I wonder if there's a demo anywhere. I loved that game, and
every time I found it, likea little every time I found a little

(01:07:23):
hat for a rot, I waslike, gotta go back to town,
I gotta go back to the cart, gotta find the nearest one and news
on the hats. No, itwas totally the same way. But yeah,
even I would highly still recommend it, even if just watching like the
cut scenes or anything. Oh,I just love that game so much.
Yeah, me too. It's absolutelybeautiful. It is absolutely beautiful. Um

(01:07:45):
and yeah, the stories, thestories are kind of they touch your heart,
we'll put it that way. That'sa good one. Okay, excuse
what about you, Victoria? Doyou have another one? So? I've
been playing Crusader Kings for a verylong time, like too long probably,

(01:08:10):
but I like the evolution of howsexuality is discussed and how it's portrayed in
game. So in Crusader Kings two, there was just a binary. You
had heterosexual and homosexual, and homosexualthey're both traits, and homosexual was a

(01:08:30):
trait and it came with a negativefifteen penalty penalty to fertility or like a
never negative twenty percent. It hadhad a penalty, a significant penalty to
a character's fertility, and also camewith an automatic negative negative fifteen in reputation

(01:08:51):
with other characters. So it's atrait and the game like sees it and
applies that entire perspective onto characters.Even though there are tons, tons of
writings about asexual relationships, bisexual relationships, lesbian relationships, like, representation of

(01:09:15):
various styles of relationships and love arepresent historically, and even if a king
was gay and it was a verylike common thing. It didn't impact his
fertility. He still had the errorlike that happened. That's how history works.
And so CK three. So CrusaderKing's three kind of flipped it on

(01:09:41):
its head. And now we havebisexual and they're no longer traits. They
are inherent to the character by arandom number number generator, and at around
ten to thirteen, the character willget if you play the character, you
see the event called like a buddingattraction, and you can roll for what

(01:10:05):
your attraction is going to be.But the characters can be asexual, they
can be bisexual, they can behomosexual, and they can be heterosexual.
And it's no longer seen as heterosexualbeing the default, which is what it
was in the previous games, becausethat heterosexuality is a default. And so
now we have and there's no negativepenalty, and you can't This comes into

(01:10:31):
the seduction trade line, but youcan't seduce characters who wouldn't be interested in
you. So if you are playinga male ruler, you can't go and
seduce a lesbian character and like tryand be like, oh, you just
haven't had a guy yet. Youdo that in c K two, like

(01:10:54):
you could do that in the otherCrusader Kings games, but now it's like
that character is not interested in youat all and the game won't even let
you try it. Mm hmm likethat what was it, Assassins Cream Valhalla
DLC oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's funny that uh that homosexuality is

(01:11:14):
it is a is a de buffLike, oh, you got the queer
de buff, you got the queerno longer fertile. Sorry, that clearly
suck. Yeah, that's pretty interesting. It caused it costs quite the uproar,
as you can imagine, because cK three came out like what twenty

(01:11:36):
twenty twenty or twenty nineteen, mcaused quite the uproar because it was part
of the marketing campaign but prior torelease, like hey, we're revamping the
gender and sexuality trees and how theyimpact gameplay, and people are like,
how dare you put queer people inmy historical game. It's like when the

(01:11:58):
Witcher was like, we are historicallyaccurate, that's why there's only white people.
Well, you know, Yoshipi saidthe same thing about Final Fantasy sixteen,
because you know, clearly people whowant to be racists want to say
that black people didn't exist in themedieval times. I guess we just spawned
forth fully formed in the nineteen sixties. There were no queer care There were

(01:12:21):
no queer people in medieval times,and there were no black people, and
it was just white people. Andthey were all straight people, all sist
white people, all completely fertile andhaving children. There was never there was

(01:12:41):
never a case of a male rulerhaving a child with a female who wasn't
straight. They were all completely straight, of course they were. Don't read
any of the primary documents, don'tread those. And in archaology, they're
just roommates. They were just romatesand was really close friends. They were

(01:13:05):
really I call them both my aunts. They were just they were roommates.
Yep. Yeah, I mean,if you were of a certain age,
everybody had that aunt who brought theirroommate to dinner for it to holiday dinner
for twenty years and they lived togetherin the same house for twenty years or

(01:13:29):
longer. But they were just roommates. Yeah, yeah, Lord of Mercy,
m hmm, hisstory will say theywere roommates. Hisstory will say they
were roommates. So I have onemore on my list. And this is
a game that I always say whenpeople ask me what my favorite game like

(01:13:55):
of all times is UM, Igenerally have two that I will throw out
there. I don't know if they'renecessarily both still like my favorite of all
times, but I would say theyare depth fit, both very formative in
the ways that I think about gameson a number of levels, and they

(01:14:16):
are both point and click adventure games. One is, of course lucas Ar's
Grim Fan Dango um Go Figure andAnd but that was because that was like
the first time I had played ma game that had kind of diverse characters

(01:14:36):
even though they even though they weredead UM, but called upon history and
culture in such a way that insuch a way that it was both positive
and integral to the story. Right. So the other one, UM was

(01:14:59):
the Law his Journey, which wasnot because April, who was the protagonist,
was the character that I was mostinterested in, the character that I
was most interested in. Or thecharacters were the owners of the boarding house,

(01:15:23):
the border house that April lived in, because they were a middle aged
lesbian couple who just existed in thatspace. They weren't sexualized. It wasn't
about their romance necessarily, It wasjust them living their lives as a couple,

(01:15:47):
as a lesbian couple. Right,You had, you know, them
doing their day to day things.They were fixing things in the house and
talking to the borders as they cameand it came and went, and like
sitting around like doing a couple things, watching TV together and having like little
funny interactions with each other. Theywere totally MPCs. But just seeing that

(01:16:13):
representation of a lesbian couple and ahealthy relationships, healthy relationship in a non
sexualized way was just kind of groundbreakingfor me. And actually, I mean
I enjoyed the game, don't getme wrong. Other than that, I
loved the game still, right,it was about the balance of of of

(01:16:36):
magic and science or excuse me,magic in nature or science and science and
nature, and just put it thatway. And like U, there were
diverse There were diverse characters who werenot only diverse in service of sexual orientation,
but also in terms of race andbeing able to go back and forth

(01:16:57):
and uh like learn more about peopleand their interactions with nature and science and
so on. But the thing thatalways stuck stuck, stuck out for me
most was a more healthy and realisticportrayal of lesbian relationships. Yeah, so

(01:17:27):
it's the small things sometimes for methat just kind of make a game stick
out for me. That was thelast one on my list, The Longest
Journey. If you haven't, it'sthe first one. There have been multiple
Longest Journey. There were sequels,but in my mind, none of them,
none of them kind of stood upto the original, which I loved

(01:17:49):
and have played multiple times. Yeah, what about anybody else? Have other
ones? Binal ones? I don'thave another one in terms of ones that
I've played, but I did have, like some I guess would be the

(01:18:14):
equivalent of honorable mention for what we'vedone for past episodes. Ones that I'm
looking forward to or have just started. And that's Postna Mix because I've just
started playing that one and I just, uh yeah, also really loving that
game, all the characters. Andthen I'm super excited for a few upcoming

(01:18:39):
games this year, Romannsylvania and SpiritSwap. I mentioned Spirit Swap a few
times, but I think it's comingout this year. Yeah, I think
it's coming out this year. I'mlooking forward to Romannsylvania too. I'm looking
as well. You know, Idon't know what happened to me at what
point, so I think, andI'm not. I've never been into romances,

(01:19:01):
and I'm not into them as necessarilyromances, but more in terms of
looking at the relationships, and Ienjoyed them so much the more social aspects
of them. And I think thatthe games that handle the social aspects so
well, especially in the last Idon't know, three, four or five

(01:19:24):
years, have tended to be datingsins. And so yeah, Roman Sylvania
is you know, and you gotmonsters. I'm so I'm so excited for
that. I'm so excited for that. And it looks like we'll be getting

(01:19:46):
news about the release date soon andI am so stoked for that. Give
it to me now. I'm excited. I'm so excited. I backed that
on Kickstarter, so I'm super stokedto play it. I'm super stoked to
play it. What about you,Victoria? Anything else? Are you all?

(01:20:14):
I think I have an honorable mentionand it's it's from Hollow Night.
Oh so Hollow Night being very sad, like Hollow Knight is a sad game,
and it's hard and it's just kindof depressing, like the whole the
whole aesthetic is quite depressing. Butthere are these two characters that help you

(01:20:38):
buff learn new skills, and oneis Shao and one is the nail smith.
And the nail smith helps you likebuff your nail up your weapon up
until its final form, so tospeak. And once you do that,
you can either fight Shao and killhim not show the nail smith and kill

(01:21:00):
him, or you can spare himand he will go off and try and
find happiness. And so I sparedthe nail smith and as I was exploring,
I'm like, oh, I needto go back to show. I
have to learn this other new ability. And there was the nail smith with
Shao and they were just talking ona bench and they were super cute together

(01:21:24):
and it was very happy. Andthen this secret achievement like pops up.
It's like the happy couple. Oh, they get together, and it's been
it's it's been confirmed that they areThey are indeed a gay couple. The
um the developers had to confirm iton a mixer stream because people are like,
well, that could be platonic,and it's like, it's not.
It's a happy couple. They areadorable and happy together. Let them live.

(01:21:48):
Yeah. So the nail smith goesand finds his happiness, and I
was just like, this is sohappy. I needed this happiness in the
middle of this very sad, intopressing game. Aren't you glad you did
murder him? I am so glad, Like why would I murder him?
He helped me level up my weaponto the final form, like, and
he's like, kill me. Ihave no other purpose in life. I'm

(01:22:09):
like, my dude, ads,I'm not. Nope, nope, am
I absolutely not? Oh my gosh, Hollow Night is a game that I
have wanted to play, but Iam terrified of. I am terrified of
so Silksong. Why happon't we hurtanything else about Silk Song? It's making

(01:22:30):
me scared. I've been hoping fora shadow drop, but I was.
I keep every time we have anintend On direct, I'm like, well,
get a shadow drop for Silksong.We'll get at at at Lisa date.
Nothing. We had that last direct, which by the way, was
kick ass, and nothing. Nothing. I'm hoping that maybe when Silk Song

(01:22:54):
comes out, because I've wanted toplay Hollow Night, but I'm not afraid
of the difficulty of it in termsof just the difficulty, but in terms
of my repetitive stress injuries and adifficulty. I'm afraid that that it'll murder
my hands. Um, but I'mhoping that maybe we'll get some additional difficulty

(01:23:17):
levels with Silk Song that will makeit more playable to people with old game
damaged hands like mine, or maybeI'll just sit and watch play through.
No, but I want to playit for myself. I really love those
kinds of games, and I haveplayed tons of those kinds of games,

(01:23:39):
like roguelikes and like difficult platformers inmy day. But as I, as
I get older and do more damageto my um and do more damage to
my hands, I find that Ican play them for shorter and shorter periods
of time. So maybe maybe we'llget We'll get we'll get an easy mode

(01:24:01):
in Silk Song. When we finallyget Silk Song, why do we finally
get it? And I hope there'smore character like character surprises, because Show
just sits up like in in hislittle hut, and he's a retired nail
master and he just paints. He'sa painter, and he's he's adorable.

(01:24:23):
He's the most formidable of the nailmasters and nail stages. But he's retired
now and so he's just gonna paintand the nail smith goes and finds love
with shallow the nail master. That'sso sweet. Is a sweet love story
of bugs. Oh my bug lovestories? All right? Is that it

(01:24:51):
for our for our favorites. Sosee it was it was supposed to be
like our favorite queer characters. Theyall turned into pretty much love stories.
I think they altern well not allof them, but a lot of them,
and especially Mass Effect because Leara again. Let me say, lear named
a star after me, and anybodyelse who says she named start after me

(01:25:12):
to his Lyne, it was justme. It was just me. I
mean that game was dealing with alot of serious stuff, but you got
me at a romantic epic across theStars. I'm so excited for the new
Mass Effects. I get to seelear again. I get to see Leara

(01:25:33):
every day though, because I orderedone of the the Leara statues when they
did the like I think they werelike limited number of Leara statues. I
was there like clicking refresh until thatwent live, and I have one on
the shelf behind me, so andthey gave me with lear every time that

(01:25:56):
but like, here's a liar,give it to me. I don't.
I don't care. So I'm reallylooking forward to the next game because I'm
pretty sure there will be more kindof Leara collectibles, because I mean,
how could there not be. Imean, she is the thing that we
see front and center for front andforemost in the kind of announcement trailer.

(01:26:19):
So there'll be like a kick assLeara statue in that amazing hooded cloak,
and it will stand on the shelfnext to the Mass Effect trilogy Leara statue
that is on the shelf behind me, because that's where she belongs. That's
where she belongs with me always.Yeah, yep, yep, I said

(01:26:41):
it. I said it all right, Yo, I appreciate you. This
was a fun conversation. I can'twait to talk more about other kind of
social slash roman social interactions slash romanticrelationships in video games with y'all. Hint,

(01:27:09):
hint, but no spoils. Um. So I guess um that will
bring us? Oh wait, wegot what us it? See? We
have? Um, we've got stuffwe said we were gonna play together coming
out soon? Or did we wehave? What do we have coming out

(01:27:30):
soon? We got wild Hearts umcoming out this week. I don't know,
we didn't say we were playing thattogether, but that's Monster Hunter esh
um. I know Victoria don't likeplaying games with Victoria don't like playing cooperative
type games because um, Victoria likerunning off being lone wolf, even though
and shooting things. Even though Victoriais gonna play Red Fall with us.

(01:27:58):
That's that is, that's factual.But also the cooperative games that Victoria likes
to play are the ones that endup scaring Sam. Yes, and apparently
we're also going to be playing those. Um, yeah, yeah, we're
gonna trade off is the trade off. And now we also know that Jordan

(01:28:19):
is going to join us for Devour, so now we only have to find
it fre It just feels like suchpure pressure. I'm like, Sam,
you're gonna play this with me?And you're like what, And I was
like it's gonna happen. You're likewhat, And I was like, I
will donate to charity to make ithappen. And then you're like, Jordan,
you're gonna play this. I havean awful scream. All right,

(01:28:42):
you're in, You are in.This is quality content. Oh my gosh.
I feel like we're all we're allgonna end up playing something we really
don't want to play. Jordan andI are gonna play Devour, and Victoria
is gonna play Redfall. I justlike that the like they're very different styles

(01:29:02):
of games, but all in theend cooperatives, all in the ind cooperative.
Yes, yeah, I want tokill my friends and watch them die.
You guys want to have a cooperativegame, It'll be fine where we
keep each other alive. Where wekeep each other alive. Devour does have
that, like there's like when youwhen you die, your your teammates can

(01:29:25):
pick you up and resue with awith a um medpacks. So it's not
like fasmophobia where when you die,you're dead and you can throw cups at
people like you you'll be picked upby the team. It'll be fine.
It's cooperative. We're trying to keepeach other alive. Mm hmmm, I
don't trust that. I'm scared.Jordan's like, I don't know how the

(01:29:49):
hell, like I roped into this. I just showed up a podcast.
Now all of a sudden, peopletrying to make me play scary games.
Jordan, you you haven't out,You do not I have to play if
you don't want to. Don't feelguilty if you don't want to play.
I'm one of those. I'm justlike I always get scared by scary games.

(01:30:09):
I don't actually enjoy them, butI always want to play them because
I kind of enjoy them. ButI don't enjoy them because I get scared
and then I yell, but thenI don't really want to go back and
play them. It's a it's acomplex relationship. But no, I am
totally down for trying. And Ijust didn't know what system and when it's
on Steam, and I feel likeI need to draw that like as a
circle, like just leading into eachother. It's one of those cyclical cycles

(01:30:32):
things, circle things, you know, Jodan. It's okay because I do
the same thing. Like there wasan opportunity for me to request a code
for or get a code for,I didn't have to request it because it's
one of the creator networks that I'min. Then they were giving out codes
to the creators in the network forDead Space, and I was like,

(01:30:53):
I don't like those kinds of gameswhere you have to like hide from stuff,
where you gotta like be stealth andyou're like supertense all the time because
thirty minutes in my chest starts hurtingbecause my anxiety is so high. But
at the same time, I waslike, I kind of want to play
that, so I completely understand.And it's not like heart pain. It's

(01:31:18):
just like you just I'm like holdingmy breath for so long and my body
is so tense that all my musclesstart to hurt. So I completely understand
because and then if you get mea really good one, like I played
one called My Toy once. Itwas about a kind of a demon possessed

(01:31:42):
teddy bear that was calling up otherdemons and we were locked in a bathroom
and shit was coming up out ofthe like demons were coming out of the
toilets and the locked bathroom stalls andrattling the doors, and then you would
look out the window or something wouldjump at you, and it was just
so horrible between the up at thewindow, the teddy Bear with murder on

(01:32:02):
the mind outside the bathroom, thestuff in the bathroom stalls, rattling the
doors. I just got so overwhelmed, and I was streaming it. I
just got so overwhelmed. I startedto cry. I didn't know what else.
I didn't know what else to do. So my answer is cry,

(01:32:25):
yeah, so and so why Ieven think for a minute that I want
to play these kinds of games,I don't know, Oh no, but
I do it to myself all thetime. It was not all the time,
but you know, like dead Space, dead Space would also probably have
been another one that would make mecry. And I'm pretty sure Devour is

(01:32:48):
gonna make me poop my pants.But that's okay. It's for charity.
It's for charity. Other people arelistening, going, what is wrong with
her? The things I do forcharity? All right, y'all, thank

(01:33:13):
you so much for a fun conversation. I appreciate y'all. So that's gonna
bring us to the end of episodetwo hundred and forty one. So until
next time when we get to talkabout more fun stuff. With episode two
hundred and forty two, let mesay, because my house feels like it's

(01:33:35):
about to blow off the foundation rightnow. I don't know if it's that
windy for you, Victoria, butlet me say, stay warm, stay
dry, stay grounded, and it'salways my friends game on an and I

(01:35:49):
imagine, imaginal, imagine, andanybody much, anybody, anybody anybody,

(01:36:13):
pure picture of the gut,