Exposing Shadows: Tony Robbins, NXIVM, and the Power of Predation

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
You are listening to the envs. Alien Podcast with your host,
Heather Woodward, an award winning SAGIG supernatural author and lover
of all things true crime.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
On this show, we're going to deep dive into topics
so don't.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Usually see the light of day, the spooky, the weird,
the macabre, the paranormal, and of course aliens. Sit back,
grab a cup of tea, and let's get on with
the show.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Today.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
We want to start with a trigger warning for sexual violence,
sexual exploitation, rape and other forms of violence, and body mutilation.
If you're sensitive to these topics, please go to a
safe place to listen to this or avoid this podcast
episode altogether. Thank you.

Speaker 5 (00:49):
Sean Diddy comes pleaded not guilty on Tuesday to charges
including sex trafficking and racketeering that Will Prosecutors in Manhattan
unsealed a three count indictment alleging the music mogul used
his business empire to carry out criminal activity dating back
at least sixteen years. US Attorney for the Southern District
of New York, Damian Williams.

Speaker 6 (01:08):
As alleged combs use force, threats of force in coersion
to cause victims to engage in extended sexual performances with
male commercial sex workers, some of whom he transported or
cause to be transported over state lines. Comes allegedly planned
and controlled the sex performances, which he called freakofs, and

(01:31):
he often electronically recorded them.

Speaker 5 (01:33):
The indictment did not specify how many women were alleged victims.
The judge, after a herring, ruled that Colmes, who was
arrested on Monday, will remain in custody pending trial. Colmbs's lawyer,
Mark Agnifilo.

Speaker 7 (01:46):
There's nothing that the government said in their presentation today
that changes anyone's mind about anything. He's been looking forward
to this day. He's been looking forward to clearing his name,
and he's going to clear his name.

Speaker 5 (01:58):
The rapper and produce a f This is a mandatory
minimum fifteen year prison sentence and up to life behind
bars if convicted.

Speaker 8 (02:05):
The penalties that p Dad Combes is facing are severe.

Speaker 5 (02:09):
Trey Lovell was a civil trial attorney.

Speaker 8 (02:11):
In terms of the lawyers and the judges, you know,
he's got a good a good defense team, and they've
been anticipating this. You know, this is not a surprise.
They knew this was coming. They started working on his
defense a while ago. You know, this is brought by
the Southern District of New York, which is a very
powerful division of the Federal prosecutors, and so it's in

(02:34):
the form that it should be, and that many cases
like this are, so I would anticipate a big fight.

Speaker 5 (02:43):
Combs, who founded bad Boy Records and is credited with
helping launch the careers of Mary J. Blige, Faith Evans,
Notorious Big and Usher, has seen his reputation tarnished over
the past year. Last November, his former girlfriend Cassandra Ventura,
an R and B singer, accused him any lawsuit to
serial physical abuse, sexual slavery, and rape. She agreed to

(03:04):
an undisclosed settlement one day after sueing Calms denied her allegations.

Speaker 9 (03:11):
Hey everybody, this is the Envious Alien podcast. Today is
an interesting episode. Not something that I expected, but not surprised.
My psychic abilities were tingling a little bit. I had
some kind of instinctual something to put this episode back out.

(03:37):
This is actually from an old podcast from about five
years ago that got really popular there for a minute,
and then everybody in the group decided that it probably
wasn't feasible anymore to get together and do these podcasts,
and so a lot of you have not heard it,
but there's like some kind of strange twists that happened

(03:59):
with is. As I am recording this, there is a
full moon in Pisces, and I am a Pisces and
I usually feel the more watery full moons. I tend
to feel them like a week before. They can feel
the tension in building, and I'm okay, let's just get
through this. So I had this like inkling to put

(04:20):
this specific episode out out of all I think I
have the twenty or thirty episodes from this podcast and
another podcast that I was in that totally didn't go anywhere,
and I know nobody's heard those ones, and those are
going to be put up later. But anyway, I was like, okay,
it's like like about fifty episodes I can pull from here,
which one is going to be the most timely? And

(04:42):
it was an episode about Tony Robbins and Dexium of
all things, and I was like, that's interesting. This is
about the Me too movement, This is about sex trafficking,
exploitation of women. This is about how men in power
tend to get away with these things for long periods
of time and they have shitty behavior, much like R.

(05:02):
Kelly and others. Around that same time, it all came
out that hey, people are bastards. We even talk about
Kevin Spacey in this one. Even though he is not heterosexual,
he's still the same kind of manipulation, coercion tactics, sex
traffick en, paying.

Speaker 4 (05:20):
For sex parties, that kind of thing.

Speaker 9 (05:22):
And I was like, I wonder why this is the
one that I feel like we need to do. And
so I was like, maybe Tony Robbins is gonna get
in trouble again or something, the vanguard from NEXIM. He's
in jail, like he got tagged hard for a bunch
of things, so we don't have to about him. Maybe
it's Tony Robbins. I did a whole bunch of research
on Tony Robbins because he didn't get hit at all.
He's doing some big tour right now. People are buying

(05:47):
his shit like it's going out of style. He's still
charging bazillion dollars. He's still over controlling, he's still shitty.
I looked up sex allegations Tony Robbins on Google, and
the only articles that came up were from like twenty nineteen,
twenty twenty, and this is the time period of this

(06:08):
last podcast that you're about to listen to. But that
kind of frustrated me too, because I'm like, bro, he's
just on the record for doing so many shitty things.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
So maybe.

Speaker 9 (06:23):
Maybe he changed it up or something. Maybe he did
something different, or maybe he paid a bunch of people off.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (06:29):
There's a lot of ways these things get thrown under
the rug. The only thing I could say about Tony
Robbins is that he didn't do anything that was like to.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
The degree of.

Speaker 9 (06:42):
Grenier Slash Nexium and R. Kelly and now P.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
Didy As.

Speaker 9 (06:49):
I'm editing the last bit of this right here on
this Pisce's full moon, which brings things to light, by
the way, Pisces always tends to bring things to light,
things from the darkness that need.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
To go forward.

Speaker 9 (07:03):
I always watched the news around this time. So the
whole P Diddy thing happened, and he is being held
for sex trafficking, a racketeering, something about getting people to
travel for his freak out know what that charges, But
it's basically moving people from one area to the next.
To me, that falls under sex trafficing because some people

(07:26):
did it on their own volition, but a lot of
people did not. They supposedly got paid, some people didn't.
According to the articles and up with them all in
the show notes his freakouts. They lasted for days. He
would rent a hotel room and then bring everybody in

(07:47):
and then they would literally be sex parties for days,
like three four days at a time. Everybody would have
to take molly or ketamine or ecstasy. I'm sure some
of these women are being forced to take these. I
am sure some of them are like, no, I don't
want you, and it didn't really matter. I'm sure there

(08:09):
was a lot of bullshit that happened there. A lot
of these people there are men and women alike, were underage,
or they were forced, hey you have to do this
or else. There are lots of allegations now about people
who ended up coming up in the ranks that say

(08:34):
they were forced by PDD to do some of these
these freakouts, or that he used them for sex and said, hey,
if you let me do this to you, I'll make
sure that you have a career. Also, he paid a
lot of people off, so who knows what else is
going on behind the scenes. They found a thousand you

(08:57):
heard me write, a thousand bottles ofaby oil in his house.
Even if anybody was using protection. Baby oil is known
to break down latex.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
That's not good.

Speaker 9 (09:13):
They did find videos of all of it, because I
guess he tends to be a voyeur and he likes
to watch, So they found tons of video in his house.
And that's interesting too because that means that somebody has
to watch all of that, and I can't imagine the
gross the ick.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
That comes with that.

Speaker 9 (09:36):
So anyway, it wasn't Tony Robbins. It was p ditty
that I was like intuitively hitting on. And so I
feel like this podcast, even though I did it five
years ago, it's still timely and it still matters, and
everything that is in this podcast is still relevant today.

(10:00):
Not a lot has changed, apparently, not a lot has been.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
Shifted.

Speaker 9 (10:09):
These people are still doing it, These people are still
out there. This is the same dumbass Epstein shit. This
is the same R. Kelly shit, this is the same
Weinstein shit. It's all still there. Yeah, there's there's an
epidemic here. There's a there's a prevalent theme of human trafficking,

(10:32):
sex trafficking and just the exploitation of women through manipulation
and coercion, and this time men too. We got to
talk about privilege here. He's got wealth privilege. He would
not be able to do a lot of this stuff
without wealth privilege, without being able to pay people off,

(10:54):
having good lawyers. One of the things that we talk
about in this podcast is that Tony Robbins, because he
has a lot of money and because he has a
lot of lawyers, he used to throw cease and desist
letters at everybody and have everybody sign NDA's and as
soon as somebody would say something bad about him, he

(11:15):
would threaten to sue them and he would send them
court documents. And that is definitely money privilege. That is
definitely worth privilege because the average person could not do that.
So if you have the money and you have the idea,
lots of people will just turn their heads because you
can pay people off and you can say, you know,

(11:38):
I don't like that, have my lawyer do something about it,
and you can control and manipulate through that, and that
is a form of abuse.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
It just is.

Speaker 9 (11:50):
It'll be interesting to see if he rats anyone out,
if he names if he makes it through the system.
Epstein did not make it allegedly. Was he killed? Maybe
did he commit suicide? Maybe did he just fake his death? Maybe?

(12:14):
I don't know. I'm on the fence with that one.
But he didn't name the names he was going to.
I'm sure he was, but he didn't name the names.
Glene Maxwell, was she name names? Maybe we'll see, We'll see.

(12:36):
She seems to be quiet in jail, holding true. Will
PDD make it through the system? I don't know who knows.
Will he talk? Probably he's already tried to use his
privilege to.

Speaker 4 (12:51):
Get out of jail.

Speaker 9 (12:53):
He offered fifty million dollars in bail and to be
able to deny the freakouts. He wanted to deny them,
and the judge said, fuck right off with that. You're
staying in jail because he is a threat risk. He
could get out of jail and he could fly out
of the country just like that, or he could use
a boat, or there's plenty of ways that he couet

(13:15):
out of the country, and they took his passport to
make sure that he couldn't do that.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
But there are other ways you pay people off.

Speaker 9 (13:22):
You could probably get immunity in a different country there
husband directors. Rama Pulaski is one of them that has
done that to get away from abuse charges.

Speaker 4 (13:37):
He was.

Speaker 9 (13:40):
Convicted of raping a thirteen year old girl at a party.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
So there you go.

Speaker 9 (13:45):
They love the younger ones. They love the control, and
they love the coercion, and they just love to fuck
with people literally and figuratively. They just love to ruin
people's lives for the sake of sex and dominance. And yeah, anyway,

(14:05):
with that, go ahead and listen to the rest of
this podcast and I will see you on the flip side.

Speaker 10 (14:15):
Hi, guys, today we're talking about Tony Robbins and Nexium.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
One thing that we've noticed and Heather really pointed out
bringing this to us that Tony Robbins has been just
a clicy predator for a really long time, and a
lot of the stuff he pedals and a lot of
the stuff that was peddled by Nexium two are really
very similar.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I was listening to a podcast about Nexium and then
I read the article about Tony Robbins and I was like,
this could be the same person.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
This is beware, yes exactly. Heather sent it to me
and it's it was the CBC Uncovered podcast. It's about
like a six or seven part series now, and they
were talking with Era, one of the people who laugh
Nexium and talking about her experiences and then what goes

(15:06):
on in the Tony Robins seminars and intensives and stuff.
It's spooky similar And even with the stuff you hear
about like scientology, for.

Speaker 10 (15:16):
Me, it's more like Nexium. It is a pyramid scheme
pretty much.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Tony Robbins is like the one man Show, and then
Lexium is the pyramid scheme. Version is very escalated. But
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Tony Robbins is
a lot more extreme than what we've already discovered.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
And we're talking about the bus fed so far there's
been reports to it reparts. Yeah, we're scratching the surface
with stuff.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
People are gonna.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Start telling the true che here. Yeah, it's not just
gonna be touching mobies. It's gonna be gross stuff. It's
gonna be like not that touching movies isn't gross, but
we know what I say, It's gonna get real creepy
here real quick.

Speaker 10 (15:54):
Yeah, it's not gonna be like very superficial commons that
can be missed as shrewd, as something else. It's like
full on crossing huge crystal barriers.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
According to the articles, and what the year long investigation
from buzzspeed has revealed is it's not just about touching boobies.
That's the tip of iceberg. That's the casual day to
day Tony Robbins a breakfast, but that's just the casual
high how you're doing so like his extreme gets a
lot more extreme. What I thought was really interesting is

(16:28):
Buzzfeeds article says that they started this investigation about a
year ago, and what really struck me is that about
a year ago is when that video of him confronting
Nanine McCool at his intensive Unleash Your Power event where
he was talking about the me Too movement and saying

(16:50):
that women were just using the me too movement to
gain significance by attacking and destroying someone else, and all
that they were doing was using a drug called Signs
Magnificance to make themselves feel good. A couple weeks later,
Tony Robbins did post and official apology on Facebook. I'm
using bunny airs around apology because an apology on his

(17:11):
book is it was very half assed. I just feel okay,
in order to see such things, you have to join Facebook,
and it's not like quite as official as going on
TV or putting it on the front page of your website.
But okay, it was terrible example horror.

Speaker 11 (17:26):
Even the founder of hashtag me too, Trona Burke, slamming
the self help guru posting Tony Robbins. If you talk
more to survivors and less sexist businessmen, maybe you'll understand
what we want. We want safety, we want healing, we
want accountability. Robbins is now apologizing writing on Facebook. I
watch in awe as more and more women all over

(17:47):
the world find their voice and stand up and speak out.
All of our growth begins with learning. It is clear
that I still have much to learn. I need to
get connected to the brave women of hashtag me too.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
I am happy to say that Nanine McCool got her
three thousand dollars ticket purchase refunded.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Three thousand dollars.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
Three thousand dollars. Yes, it was only a three day event,
so it was one of the cheaper ones.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Three thousand dollars. Right, I'm still on.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
That Yeah, you've been hanging out on that spot more.
That's one of his cheaper ones. His week long events
are seventy five hundred. Wow. Yeah, because he really just
believes in helping people.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Helping them get touched by his hands of gropiness.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
Yes, his hands of gropiness. If they get out lightly,
that's what they'll get. Because apparently reading through the BuzzFeed articles,
one of the first contacts that they got was from
a gentleman named Gary King, who was his security chief
for ten years or something like that, and he contacted buzzbeed.

(18:54):
He is split with Tony Robbins a few years ago
and his son ended up committing suicide while he was
working for Tony Robbins. He became very disenchanted with Tony Robbins,
and when the me Too movement happened, he decided that
he owed it to his own ethics and morality to

(19:17):
speak out on behalf of the women who were terrified
to do and so he got in contact with BuzzFeed
and then from there their investigation began.

Speaker 10 (19:25):
That says a lot that it's not even one of
the girls, it's one of the security guards. If your
own security guards are like, damn, you're a slee's bucket.
That I have to go to BuzzFeed.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Apparently part of his job duties was scoping out the
good looking women in the audience, and Robbins would then
send him to invite them backstage or up to his
room or to breakfast, and if they refused, then he'd
be sent to go get another girl. Of Robins choosing

(19:55):
that that's scary as fuck.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Is seventy five hundred dollars three two thousand dollars on
events for basically a breeding ground for his shenanigans. And
there are a lot of women that said that they
thought about it and then said no, and then they
would be traded differently, or they would be asked again,
or Tony Rebens would just literally go up them and

(20:18):
ground their boob or pull him close and then say
rude things in their ear. And they'd just be like, oh,
that's just Tony. He's a really good guy and he's
helping me. So I'll just overlook it.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
And there are quotes from people saying stuff, why pay
attention to that message, not the messenger. I get that,
but I also want to be like, this is fucking smarter.
It's like the whole thing with most like cults.

Speaker 10 (20:43):
Oh the problem isn't our leader, it's you. You have
to give to receive the benefits of our leader, and you.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
Are so just jumping right into next sum right now.

Speaker 10 (20:53):
I know that's because that's why I want.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
That's what I thought.

Speaker 10 (20:58):
I was like, that sounds like lexium.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
That's the same same thing that they would tell the
people in the group that if.

Speaker 10 (21:03):
They didn't agree with their leader or whatever his teachings were. Oh,
the problem isn't us or our teachings.

Speaker 12 (21:10):
It's you.

Speaker 10 (21:11):
He's sure the one with the problem. That's actually really
common in scientology.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
I really don't agree with that whole don't judge the
messenger if the message is okay, because aren't guru is
supposed to be leading by example?

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Aren't leaders supposed to leave by example.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
I'm not saying you have to be perfect, but if
you're sexually assaulting and sexually harassing your patrons and your team,
like one of the things that some of his assistants
were saying is that he does stuff naked off purpose.
He'll cop they'll say, cup it to the shower, and
then he'll just stat there naked while he is giving

(21:51):
instructions and not tell anybody.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
That's what he's going to do.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
He doesn't explain that that he's going to be naked.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
Was of the dime and take a note, and then
he's laying in the bed naked exactly. That's just so gross.
We're not talking for you've been talked to ahead of time,
because a lot of the ladies that they talked to, Hey,
ratasse I just butchered her name. I'm sure she was
his personalsssent for ten years. And she said it was fine.

(22:19):
It was part of her job. Her job was to
wake him up in the morning, pull his naked butt
out of bed, throw his naked button in the shower.
That was just part of the gig. And she didn't care.
Like he could be nude, he could be close. She
didn't give a shit. And that's fine that she was
fine with it, And like, more.

Speaker 10 (22:32):
Power to her because I've been around naked people that
But it wasn't like threatening, it wasn't sexual. They weren't
trying to have sex with me or trying to touch
me physically. But I was perfectly fine with them being naked.
That's what her job was, and she was comfortable with him,
and they had this understanding that it wasn't anything sexual.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
It's an understand thing, though I know what's her. He said,
I'm probably gonna be naked.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
Is that okay with you?

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Like he prefaced the assistant part of that, But a
lot of the systs didn't know he was going to
do that.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
One of them was just like twenty years old and
she was his living personal assistant and she was not
told that was going to be part of the job.
She had her own personal quarters in his house and
he came into her shower while she was showering.

Speaker 10 (23:20):
Oh yeah, I heard about that. Supposedly she was coming
out of the shower or she opened the curtain and
all he had was a towel on which she then dropped.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
There's really no professional reason to be doing that, Like
why would you come into somebody else's shower while they
were showering, and why would you then need to drop
your towel? ROAs is so rossy. She was like twenty, Hello,
she's a baby. It's fine if his other assistant, Kate,
was fine with it. She just knew that waking him

(23:49):
up and he's left naked and whatever and blah blah blah.
She sounds like maybe a big sister or mom mother,
hen type or she was just like whatever people are naked,
it happens, and there was never like a sexual thing
going on there, but there was definitely sexual issues with
other people going on. He's got all these NDAs right,
not only for his own staff, but also for everyone

(24:10):
attending his seminars and intensives, so people are forced to
sign them when they like buy tickets to attend something,
and then his lawyers are super aggressive when they talk,
and that's been part of the issue. He's actually been
sued and people have spoken out several times over the
years every time they've been counter sued or they've had

(24:32):
ceased and desist letters sent out by his lawyers, and
that's why nothing has really happened. Yeah, because he sues
people who speak out pretty much immediately.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
BuzzFeed actually got to seize a dystance letter. They said,
we steded by our reporting and we have all the
documents to back it up.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
Period.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
They said, go find ourselves, we have notes.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
We obviously. Yeah, and according to the BuzzFeed article too,
people have gotten ceased in this is letters who weren't
even involved because Tony Robbins just assumed they were the leak.

Speaker 10 (25:09):
The most common denominator that I would be that person's.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yeah, that sucks. They were just lied. We just as same.
It was this person who leads the information, so we
sent them as heasonedist. And one of the people said
that they received a sason this this letter that said
in accordance to your NDA, but they never signed one.
And then when they responded and said I never signed one,
they received a letter saying please sign this nder and
they were like, what, No, why would I do that?

Speaker 13 (25:37):
Now?

Speaker 4 (25:38):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Ye, can you please sign this and let it?

Speaker 4 (25:42):
Can yell at you?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Said more about Ryan, Yeah, I don't understand that. And
one of the other things articles were saying was that
he was yelling at his team because he wanted to
know who the leak was. And so he went though
he said that none of this stuff happened. He was
pretty much reading his whole crew of the riot act
because of this. And then after the article came out,

(26:03):
he went on YouTube and he has this five minute
stoop a us apology. That's sorry, not sorry, it's not true.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
But if I.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Offended anybody, he was, it's not true.

Speaker 10 (26:16):
I'm sorry, yes, and he said that he wasn't the
same person that he used to be in his twenties
and thirties.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
So he never ever did anything wrong, and he's not
really proud of everything that he used to do. Not
that he ever did anything wrong, but if you got
offended by something he did do that wasn't actually wrong,
then he's sorry.

Speaker 14 (26:37):
Hey everybody, it's Tony Robbins. It's almost two am here
down Under in Australia. I just got a stage a
few minutes ago here at Date with Destiny on day
three of the six day program. We've got twenty five
hour people here from forty five forty six countries. I
think we're translating three languages simultaneously. And it has been
such a magnificent, beautiful day and I'm reaching out to

(26:58):
you today because I don't want another day to go
by without banking all of you. I have been humbled
and overwhelmed by the amount of love and prayers and
encouragement that I received from tens of thousands of you.
Not to mention that people have stood up and told
the truth about what happens in our events, and also
the people that have been misquoted by BuzzFeed have got
up and said they're just lying they're just not true.

(27:19):
And I'm sure if you've followed the facts what's going
on there. But I just want to just thank you.
It's uh good inness that I can play. I just
never felt I was deeply loved in my life, and
I'm a very blessed man, and people are always so
beautiful and generous. When you try to serve people, they're
usually so incredibly loving. But this kind of takes the cakes,

(27:40):
so to speak. So I just want to really thank you.
And it's unfortunate that we live in this time in
society where you know people who will operate some of
them businesses. Yeah, they live for how to get your
attention with the most salacious headlines. BuzzFeed in the business
of feeding that right, because now the news comes to
our pocket and to get our attention, and they got

(28:00):
to do something crazy, right to get your attention. I
do something but sounds really intense to try to do it.
But if you go past the headlines and you read
the actual articles, you'll see the facts don't support what
they talk about at all. And more importantly, you do
your homework, you'll see the people are quoting, you're saying
that they're misrepresenting and flat out lying to them. I'm
really grateful. For example, one of the women that they

(28:20):
use this example saying off the abusive to in my
events was this woman, Adelae, who just posted a video.
First of all five thousand people are at that's from
multiple countries, and literally thousands of you were there have
reached out to its and social media so that I
was there and it was beautiful and it's not true.
But more importantly, she made a video on her own
and posted it, and I'm grateful to her to tell

(28:41):
us what she told us. He Buzzy came to her
saying he abused you, and they had a two minute
audio out of context, and she told him point blank,
and she did a video told all of us that
he didn't abuse me. It was tough, weld and may
have been difficult, but it changed my life. She even
wrote an entire book about how it changed your life.
So she took other people with him. That's how extreme
it is and how they completely misrepresented. I'm sure you'll

(29:02):
see a series of videos of other people they misquoted.
There'll be one coming out I think today as well
from one of the people used to be one of
my assistantsssively completely misrepresented. She's mad as hell and it's
just not true. So if you look past that lines
that you did underneath to find where it is, and
it's unfortunately live in a world where people try to
make money by trying to demonize somebody else or attack
somebody else. But it isn't just me. It's just it's

(29:25):
got to stop. It's just it's ridiculous. And I know
now that they're going to try and come out and
say four or five more people that are upset with
me for something I said or did in the nineteen
eighties or nineties when I was at my twenties or
early reason. I'm fifty nine and I'm not perfect. I
never claimed to be. I'm perfectly committed to growing and
helping us to people as I possibly can. I've never

(29:45):
claimed to be perfect, and if there's anything of that percent,
I've ever done that sincerely, but offended anybody, hurt anybody's
feelings or they felt anything of that nature, just didn't
support you. I apologize. It's certainly anybody that knows me
knows my intent is that. Ope, here two am I
just pitch go. We've been going since nine this morning,

(30:05):
thousands of people. I don't even do that. I lost
half my freaking blood suppie because of the ulcer that happening,
and that was only nine days ago. I have the
evil go and to keep going. But I keep on
doing it because I'm not doing this just to do
with seminar. I'm doing this to serve colpit. What most
you've already done and thank you for it, is just
look me on the headlines digging to need three whatever

(30:25):
you want to read to go, get the facts and
compare it, and then you'll know what the truth is.
You don't know me. I got to warn you. My
techniques are outside the bottom. They're very different. I'll be crazy,
I'll be weird, I'll be gross, I'll be funny, I'll
be anything to serve anything but hurt the person. That's
not something I wanted to do. And in mind, forty
two years showing that proven that, and you got to

(30:47):
think about that. Out of the literally millions of people
have founded my seminars, out of forty two years now,
out of the tens of thousands of volunteers, out of
the thousands of employees, whust eating by four people that
were offended or felt heard too, fell those approping some
way of communicating you're speaking or doing something is shift, sir.
This has got to stop. And I hope maybe in

(31:10):
my situation and fighting back a little bit will stimulate
some of you to do the same, and hopefully we
can remember that human beings grow certainly better human being
than I was in my twenties and thirties. At least
I believe I am. I work my ass off to
be better, and I want to continue to do that.
It's not like I'm some finished project. But what you
can't count out for me, if you're in my world,

(31:32):
is I'll continue to grow, and I'll continue to move forward,
and I'll continue everything I can to serve and I
will let any comments or album that stop us from
doing the good works that we're able to do. And
if you don't know why I am again you Daniel
Wanning with this crazy stuff's about, I encourage you to
go judge for yourself. Go to Netflix and watch I'm
Not Your Guru, and you'll see how crazy I can be,
but you also see how effective it is, and you

(31:52):
can see testimonies of people there be four or five
years ago and how it's still touched their life. Or
I'll ask my team throw a clip in here from
one thing that happened tonight the woman. It was so
hurt and so angry, and she's got such beautiful freedom
right now just by being able to find the truth.
So I just I'm being because I'm so tired. I'm sorry.
I just want to say thank you. I'll say I

(32:12):
love you, thank you, thank you for your beautiful words,
thank you for your prayers, thank you for your support,
and thank you for digging deeper than the headlines. And
let's see if we can't bring each other together. We're
so divided between politics and genders and sexual orientations. It's
so many different issues, and yet we're all brothers and
sisters and we're just forgetting that. Let's come back to

(32:34):
stop unizing people, and let's start finding ways to come together.
I have to leave my mission, and my guess is
for most of you, you'd like to see that happen too,
and talking happen overnight. Together, step at a time, we
can make that difference. So thank you for mak the
difference in my life. Thank you for your love, thank
you for tunity. And I know you're busy as can
be and we don't need an other video, but I
just want to reach out and say thank you in

(32:55):
the midst of all what's crazy, and it's secured to me.

Speaker 15 (32:57):
To it now.

Speaker 4 (32:58):
Bless. I understand that I was a toll hoe in
my twenties.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
I get it, like when we're in our twenties and
you're free and you have no red flags and everything
is just like yeah, and he had power, money of power.
I'm sure there were some things that he did Rocks, However,
no way that he had some crazy intervention and then
just became this whole other person, because you would have

(33:23):
to have something happened to you, like the whole rock
lot up saying that happened for being I got pregnant
and I had a child and that was so whend
we right up. We always have that moment, we have
a moment of like crisis or a moment of transition
that bring us to that place.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
He's never had that. While all this was happening, he
was married and then he got divorced.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
I was sure it had a lot to do with
this kind of crazy ass behavior and who knows what's
happening now behind closed doors because he's remarried it.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
He didn't just turn into the ster Roger's neighborhood. And
that's one of the things that he said is that
looking through all this stuff that he had never come
on to anyone ever since he got married to his
second wife. That's bullshit. That's funny. That's a very specific statement. Okay,
so you were coming on to people at your scheminitars
and stuff before you got married, but maybe while you

(34:13):
were still dating, but definitely while you're married to your
first wife. Sure, is that what we're saying because a
very specific statement, I can.

Speaker 10 (34:21):
Imagine that it's probably directed more to his wife going hate.
It's letting you know that while we were married, I've
never done anything. I was an idiot the first time around,
but now with you, I've changed because you've changed me.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
Bullshit exactly. It was just reading through this stuff was wild,
just weird things, reading about how he would. He's got
a very confrontational speaking style where he tends to jump
in the audience and get in people's faces. And you
can see that with the video from I Mean McCool
and the me too moment that's out there like on

(34:53):
every his search Tony Robbins, this is up first thing
that comes up. So if you look at it, he's
got a very confrontational style, and apparently he does with
a lot of women. He will do something sexual as
his confrontational thing. He'll kiss them or hug them, or
grab them and pick them up, or something of that
nature that overrides their bodily autonomy. That's a common tactic

(35:13):
of him, and so he tends to write it off
as yeah, that's how I am. I'm just like a
really confrontational, in your face guy. But he's not like
kissing dudes.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
They notice that, and it's only hot girls that he finds.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
He has definitely has a die yes, and there's a
disproportionate number of women that he picks to talk to
in his audience to men, it's not like fifty to fifty.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
No, it's not, it's body, Okay, you'll do next, exactly,
and so very much a skewed perspective.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
If you look at a lot of the things he
speaks about. He's very much into this whole masculine feminine dichotomy.

Speaker 16 (35:46):
I am true.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
I definitely believe in the whole idea of masculine and
the feminine, but working together equally not masculine as I'm
a misogynist asshole, as feminine as you will follow alow things.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
As a masculine and feminine dichotomy as masculinity and femininity,
And then there's masculine feminine dichotomy as tied to biological sexes,
and his is very definitely tied to biological sexes. Women
are supposed to behave this way and men are supposed
to behave this way, and that's how biology made you.
It's basically misogyny or sexiest. It is misogyny too, though, yeah,

(36:23):
because most desirable traits exist in masculinity. So there's a
quote from him saying women's torment is that men fucking look,
and men's torment is that women are fucking insane. Oh
there's so much to unpoca. Wow, do we have a
week to be on here? So that's like women's torment
is that women have issues with jealousy, and men's torment

(36:45):
is that women.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Have issues with everything. It's really just all women's issues total,
the whole. If you would just shut the fuck up,
then we would all be happy. Say exactly, that's what
abusers say. That's like what narcissists say, that's what abuser says.
That's why gaslighting is. That's exactly it right there. If
she's saying that to is the public, imagine what he's
saying to his wife.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
There's nothing. I didn't see anything about her other than
that she exists and she's had a baby. Like the
Wikipedia doesn't say anything about her. The article I'm still
say anything about her. Yeah, it does. It has her name.
It's Wikipedia. They're pretty good about that. But other than that, like,
there's nothing said about her, like she is, how they met,

(37:29):
where she came from. I didn't have a Facebook or something.
I don't look on Facebook for steph oh, that's right.
I didn't feel like any pictures of like him and
his wife, and I didn't bother to rewatch I Am
Not Your Guru, because I watched it one time and
I barely made it through the first time. And I
did read an article about I Am Not Your Guru

(37:51):
from a psychotherapist and their assessment of it, but they
didn't mention the wife in their review of it, and
I don't remember seeing her in it. I'm Not Your Guru.
The Tony Robbins documentary on Netflix is basically a very
long infomercial for Tony Robbins, and you're not gonna learn
a lot by watching it. Here's this early life. He

(38:12):
left home and never turned as far as I until,
he's not in contact with his parents, learned neuro linguistic
programming right out of high school.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Oh he's LP.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah, that explains a lot. Yeah, I thought you would
appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
As far as is the I'm not I'm not your guru,
uh documentary. I read an article about that from the
perspective of the director, and Tony Robbins and his lawyers
were up his ass the whole time, and he had
to sign a bunch of things about when they could
fill he had to look at all of the footage,

(38:51):
and they were only allowed to use certain footage. Anything
that showed a negative light anyone being upset or him
be an asshole, they had to take it out. They
basically shaped that because Tony Robins said that he would
not allow anything that tarnished his his name in it.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
So he is very.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Controlling about what goes out, which leads me to believe
that I'm sure this BuzzFeed stuff is just freaking him
the fuck out, because yes.

Speaker 4 (39:21):
No control. Yeah, absolutely, people are not allowed to post
recordings from his seminars. People are not allowed to talk
about what they learned in his seminars. People are not
allowed to do interviews about what they learned. His employees
are not allowed to talk to people. There's a complete
like radio silence. Yeah, he's very controlling. And I also

(39:41):
read about the director and it.

Speaker 10 (39:43):
Was like if they pissed him off at any moment,
he could just pulled the plug on the whole thing,
oh yeah, and confiscate all their footage.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
He was just completely in control of the documentary. And
that's why the good documents lad is. I didn't get
through the whole thing because I was like, what the fuck?

Speaker 4 (39:58):
Yeah, And it really is just a really long infomercial
for Tony Robbins. It's really terrible. So his wife's name
is Bonnie Sage. Sage is the nickname Robins made names Humphrey.
And that's all the information I saw about her all
my reading, Like that was it. And they have a child.

Speaker 10 (40:20):
I've seen pictures of her, and he did like an
infomercial with her of some sort. I did not look
at the infomercial, but I know he did one. It's
like a fourteen minute thing that he did about relationships
and how to I guess make your wife happy or
some about relationships and how to make marriages work. Really

(40:42):
was that recently or No, that was in two thousand.
I think it's like twenty ten. Okay, I thought I
hear about recent That's okay, like sense, the time is
not great.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
His first marriage was in nineteen eighty four, and he
met his first wife at one of his seminars. Yeah,
and in the same year he had a child with
his former girlfriend. So in nineteen eighty four he marries
one lady and has a child with another lady. Oh wow,

(41:15):
and the first wife he got divorced.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
In nineteen ninety eight. He's fully set his ways. He's
so used to getting what he wants and what he
wants on his own church. And one thing that I
did notice is that he is losing deals as a result.
So I found two articles where he lost business deals.

(41:43):
One was a thirty eight billion investor psychology position with
a registered investment advisor firm in Kansas.

Speaker 4 (41:56):
According to the owner of that company, is not a
good idea to have a celebrity endorsement for someone who
is so famous and going through such a big scandal.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
So what is the appeal to Tony Robbins? Because I
never thought he was that interesting. I think I have
one of his books on my Kindle and I think
I've read two pages of it and was like, this, motherfucker.
I put it back. And then I think I've seen
a couple of minutes of someone's I don't know something,

(42:36):
and I was like, what a motherfucker?

Speaker 4 (42:39):
What's his appeal? I'm so glad you asked, Hey, there
you know? So I found this really great article in
Forbes that was specifically talking about the name of the article,
is Tony Robbins is a major jerk? And other reasons
you should follow his lead. For one, he uses NLP
and some kind of hypnotism whose name I've forgotten, But

(43:02):
his approach is pretty classic among cultlier's, revivalists, revolutionaries, and
business gurus in history, and a couple pretty big historical
people have used this, and their basic tactic is to
tell really wealthy and famous people how much they suck

(43:22):
and how it's all their fault. And the reason why
this is so appealing is because we can't stand the
idea that shit happens to us for fucking random reasons.
We need a sense of control. And if we suck
and it's all our fault why we're not doing better

(43:45):
in life, that's something we can control by getting better.
Sounds like next to him again, Oh my goodness, the farewells. Absolutely.

Speaker 10 (43:54):
And so if the problem is us and we can
fix us, that gives us a sense of control again
and we feel empowered, and then we can fix it,
and we love that feeling of being empowered.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
I can do this as easy. I can fix it.
My life doesn't have to be chaotic shit. And that's
why they do so well. You are the master of
your own destiny. You can take control of this. All
you have to do is fix yourself. I've given you permission.

Speaker 10 (44:21):
They do the work and they're like, it's Tony, he
got me to do this. He did this for me,
when really you're the one that did everything. He just
quote unquote gave you permission exactly.

Speaker 4 (44:32):
I was reading through the articles like there's this woman
who went to is one of his intensives and her
husband was beating her and his response to her, and
the intensive was like, oh yeah, is he really beating
you for no reason at all? How many times does
he have to deal with you being a crazy bitch.
In Buzzpeede's airview with her, she said, I knew that

(44:56):
didn't apply. He wasn't talking to me personally, he knew
I knew that applied to other people. But it did
empower me to go ahead and leave my husband. So
no good for her, not how I would have interpreted that,
but I'm glad that worked for her. Yes, maybe there's
some experience where he says words and they don't mean
what they mean in English, which is like double speak

(45:19):
from orwell, but I don't understand it, like.

Speaker 10 (45:22):
When it reaches your brain and decos and t leave
your husband you deserve better.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Or maybe she like got pissed off at Tony Robbins
and then took that anger home and got pissed off
at her husband, was like fuck it, I'm out of here.
I hate then. I don't know.

Speaker 15 (45:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
But this tactic of telling you that your life is
shit and it could be better, that is like, that
is classic breaking people down, so they do what they
fORCH people, You break somewhat down psychologically, yeah, and then
you're like, here, let me help you build yourself back up.
But what people don't realize is that you're the one
that broke them down in the first place. That that's

(45:58):
what marketing is. The whole coaching.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Business is like this.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
The first thing they tell you is to get people
into their paid point. Yes, what are the things that
are hurting you right now? Oh you're not making enough money.

Speaker 4 (46:11):
Oh you're poor.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Oh you feel shitty about yourself. Oh that's terrible. Tell
me more about that. Let's get the person to cry,
Let's break them down. Guess what I have the answer
for you. What if you could do this and this
and make all that go away. As they're crying and
as they're feeling bad, I have the answer for you.
By program that's only one thousand dollars is going to

(46:37):
fix that for you. All you have to do is
sign Oh you don't have the money. That's too bad,
because you obviously don't want to fix your problems, and
you obviously don't like yourself enough. If you really loved
yourself and if you really wanted to change, then you
would borrow that money. You would go and put on
your credit card, you would go and get a loan

(46:58):
from the bank, because that's what it takes to make
yourself feel better. If you don't do that, then you're
disrespecting beat or disrestructing your family, and you're destructing yourself.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
And that you haven't done it already shows that you
actually want these problems. You're just making it worse.

Speaker 10 (47:13):
You don't ever want to change.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
You're getting something out of playing the victim, and so
you are married to having your problems and you're trying
to inflect sympathy on everybody else and you really just
want to sit here and wallow.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
So why are we even on this phone call because
you obviously don't want to change.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Yeah, to stop wasting my time.

Speaker 10 (47:32):
I was at a Starbucks once and I sat next
to a guy and he started talking to me, and
eventually he got into the conversation that basically it was
like Amway, like a stupid Amway thing, and I was
suckered into it. But I didn't pay for it. I
didn't do anything. I have the meeting what he tells
me all about it. It was me and my best

(47:52):
friend and we were taught. We were like, oh, that's nice. Moving.
He showed us a video and everything last thank you,
and we walked away and we're like, we're not doing this.
He had like fourified people that had already signed up
with him, and they were like, come on, it'll be great. Yeah,
coming up with different ways of how to get us.
And I was like, okay, well we'll think about it.
We'll think about it. I was like, oh, tomorrow there's
there's gonna be a seminar.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
You should come.

Speaker 10 (48:13):
And I was like, yeah, I can't have to work.
I have to do this blah blah blah, and my
friend had to do a bunch of other stuff. Like
we really were busy, Like it wasn't like we made
it up, like we really were. The day of this
guy text me like at least twenty times and he
did all that. He was like, I guess you're not
this and that and blah blah blah. I guess you

(48:35):
don't want and I guess you don't want to be
like giving me the whole spiel of what you just did.
And I literally said, if you do not stop calling me,
I will call the cops on you. I will say
that you're harassing. I was like, I'll put a wrist
training order. Leave me the f unlone dumb ass.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
And he's like, okay, but.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
That's what you're taught and coaching. I didn't make that
spill up that I have a tough look for that.
I have the whole thing written that.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
That's how you're.

Speaker 10 (49:00):
Supposed to do marketing, sales clarity calls. Yeah, how do
you get trained for that? When you're getting trained to
do that, does the coach that is teaching your go.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
And now is when you have to be a dighead
and be rude and mean.

Speaker 10 (49:16):
And just break them down until there's nothing less and
then watch something from you.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
This is what they say.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
They say that you are the coach and you're in
control of the conversation and you are helping them, and
so people don't want to change, You're gonna have to
persuade them to change, and it's going to be a
hard conversation and really want to help them.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
This is how you have to do it. They just
have to do it.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, So they put the responsibility on you. And so
I used to do these calls. I never got as
hardcore as I did the example, and then I started
to realized what I was doing. And then I just
started to warrantutive calls where I was like, Hey, I'm
you're interested, but I have to tell you when I
did them that way. It works, not a lie.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
It works.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
People hand over thousands of dollars. They don't question it
at all.

Speaker 10 (50:10):
I can understand trying to convince someone of something and
using kind of those tactics, but not from the example,
not to the extreme of that, because a tone of
voice was like, that's.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
A tone of well you have because you have to
be the aggressor. It's always about editor.

Speaker 10 (50:28):
It sounds like the mean, Oh, I guess your mom
didn't buy you those news shees, oh you're wearing discussed ones.

Speaker 11 (50:34):
Well, the thing is in the.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
Example, you're trying to force money out of people who
can't afford it, and so yeah, you're being me in
the second example that Heather's talking about, where she's just like,
by the way, I have this program. If you're interested,
I'm not hurting for your money. I'm not trying to
squeeze it out of you. I'm just saying I have
this thing if you want it. And people are more
likely to fork over the money that way because they're like, Okay,

(50:57):
she's not wreaking a desperation right now too. They define
you more likable. So if they have the money, they're like, yeah,
I'm down.

Speaker 10 (51:04):
And that's what I've always found that if I'm more
personal and like likable, they'll no.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
But the breaking you down tactic really does work.

Speaker 4 (51:14):
I bet it does.

Speaker 10 (51:15):
I'm pretty sure it does. But the thing is that
I have, like my friend, the one that I told
you about does she joined like the seminar that costs
her like three thousand or four thousand dollars that she
couldn't even pay her rent or eat food for a
while because of it, and she had to ask friends
for help. And actually one of the women that was
in the seminar with her paid like one of her
installment because she didn't have anything, and she was like,

(51:36):
I have to do this.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
I have to.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
I don't go if I don't do this. Maria is
just like I need this.

Speaker 10 (51:42):
I need this so bad, And I'm like, God, can
you LIKEE be that bad.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
Mind because of the programming. It's because they've broken her
down every time.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Now that you've taken this course, I have this next level,
and if you don't do this next level, then you're
not evolving. If you're not evolving, you're gonna fall right
back into your old patterns, and then all the money
you have used has been wasted because you're not doing
what you're supposed to be doing and you need to
keep doing this, so give me war money. So every
level is a little more expensive, and it's really just

(52:16):
bullshit because like the nextium lady, she said that she
would talk to people all the time in her hood.
All she was thinking is how am I going to
get the sale out of them.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
That's a great segue to talk about seem the night
of the branding, where did that happen?

Speaker 1 (52:34):
The actual branding itself was at Alison Max Home Alibany.

Speaker 15 (52:37):
Max Home, And there's been a lot said about the
fact that the brand shows Keith for Neery's initials KR,
they also show Alison Max initials AM.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
It appears to be that way. I saw the AM
before I saw the KR.

Speaker 14 (52:53):
You did.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
I saw the AM first. When I left, I thought
the branding was the most horrific abuse that was happening.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
In nexiom.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
I actually think that the branding doesn't even compare to
the other emotional abuses that have been going on for decades.
But once I left, I heard about Keith using sex
as a means to control people.

Speaker 17 (53:16):
My knowledge about him sleeping with all the girls was
like that.

Speaker 14 (53:18):
There was a few.

Speaker 17 (53:20):
I didn't understand that it was like dozens, twenty thirty,
like a lots.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
I've heard of women, many women signing life long vouts
to only have sex with Keith.

Speaker 17 (53:31):
I don't have a problem necessarily with somebody saying they
want to have a swing your lifestyle, but don't convince
a girl that having sex with you is the things
she needs to do for her own growth.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
I don't think it's okay for a man who is
the leader of a philosophical movement to be sleeping with
all of the higher ranks within his company and his
students within the company. It's a conflict of interest because
they're there to learn, and then you have the person
who's teaching them have sex with them as part of
their growth. If that's what he wants to do, that

(54:04):
should be on their website.

Speaker 4 (54:06):
Nexium, So first I want to say Nextium is spelled
really weird. It's spelled nxiv M. I didn't see any
reasoning for why it's spelled that way. But sixth grade
me wants to say those are all rooman numerals. I believe, so, yes,
that's what they are symbolizes as or like what they're

(54:29):
supposed to be. That's what I thought. You know, I
don't remember what number.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
This guy was smart because what he knew he was
a nerd, and so he put beautiful women out in
the front of it make it look appealing. So he
was like, maybe it was just a horn dog. Yeah,
it was like Manson though, where he's I don't really
know how to do this, so I'll just get other
people to do a for it kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
I'll just read the figurehead. Okay, So to be specific,
this guy is near, so I'm gonna call him Keith
because I don't like that last name. The first thing
I read about him is that he claims to have
a two hundred and forty IQ. So immediately I dislike him.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Oh yeah, I remember that whole thing where he's you
know that I have a Highland Q. You like, get
the fuck out of here?

Speaker 4 (55:16):
Yeah, exactly, Like immediately if you lead it with your IQ,
I know that's all you have a value about it,
and you made it up.

Speaker 10 (55:23):
I'm curious to know what his astrological sign is.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
I am looking at the Wikipedia because he doesn't have
his own Wikipedia page, but I know there's a Vanguard
week honest. So if I can find what the exact
date of Vanguard Week is, I will be obvious twenty six.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
There you go.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
So he's a virgo. You know how I feel about
how my fellow virgos, and they're all claiming to have
the smarts. If you're gonna be pedantic, do it right.
I'm not surprised by this at all. No, but he
claims to have a two hundred and forty IQ. But
there's no reference to any test or where he found
this out or how he found this out or when

(56:07):
he found it out. It's just a claim that he's
made with no supporting documentation, and we're going to see
this as a theme.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
It's funny because most virgos, it's I don't I'm not
going to ask about you shall because you're a vert ghost.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
But by the virgos that.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
I have dated or that I have no are secret kinksters.
They have like proclivities. Oh yeah, and I could totally
see him incorporating those sexual proclivities that you Whatever he's doing,
he definitely does.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
I am completely vanilla. I'm like his boring gets, but
I have been fetish seen adjacent, like I've done fetish
photography and I've done I've performed at fetish events and
stuff like that. But like in my personal life, it's
very vanilla.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
You're kinky adjacent, that's all you want to say it,
because you're on board with it. You don't care about it.
You'll take fixtures of it. You just don't want to
participate it in your own sexual life, which is yeah,
that's very we're growy too, no watch okay.

Speaker 10 (57:08):
Yeah, I just don't care. As long as you get
your vanilla. You're fine if everybody else chocolate chip with
almonds on it or something.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
I like to call it non judgmental, as long as
you're having fun and everyone's con hinting, oh mighty kit.
Yeah that's true.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
So we're got surprised. He's a virgo and Matson is
a Scorpio. I figured he was going to be either,
as we're growing a scorpio.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
It's nice. I did not look at Tony Robbins though.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Tony Robbins, Okay, I wonder if he's a the first sign.

Speaker 10 (57:41):
No, dude, Leo, you think so? Yeah, I would say
Leo in front of the twenty Nights. Well no, I see, ah,
he's one of yours.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Let's see do ever Ray twenty nice sixty. I am
so surprised by that. Honestly has to have something like
his moon. Yeah, there something.

Speaker 10 (58:10):
I guess I could look that up real quick because
because it would make more sense because it's not a piscey.
I don't think it's a Pisces thing because everyone that
I've ever met, including you, Heather, you don't like being
in the spotlight too much. It's not like your thing.
And I remember my am Mike's boyfriend who's a Pisces,
and he would literally run if he was in a
crowd of people.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
He would panic.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
If you are the limelight as a Pisces, you're usually
an actor or a dancer or an artist. Something to emotional, Yeah,
the performer. Yeah, we want to be leaders.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
We want to be leaders.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Quietly yeah, Oudivolt. Pisces are manipulators. We are the gratipulators. Yeah,
they're the graviticulators. They're victim and manipulators. But it does
explain why he can apologize so well.

Speaker 10 (59:01):
Yeah, because the person that I was saying that would
apologize and would continue doing the problem.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
He's a Pisces.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
So this makes me think that if Tony Robinson is
a piece. Is probably why I didn't like him, because
I'm all like, oh, I recognize that. But if Tony
Robins is a pisceist, then he has definitely escalated. The
Other thing with Pisces is that they're prone to obsession,
and it's the probe alcoholism and sex.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
Addiction, addiction.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
So if he was doing this in his twenties, he's
definitely doing now.

Speaker 10 (59:33):
He might it might be that he's more like addicted
to sex or he's poor now m but.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
He's doing something because if he didn't catch it in
his thirties, then he'll be doing it more when he's
this age.

Speaker 10 (59:48):
Okay, so we've got his son in Pisces and his
moon in aries. Oh no, mercury is also in Pisces.
Oh my god, that's my chart.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
My moon is in Aries and my mercury isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Pissings and his venus is an aquarians. A venus is
a capricor.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
That's all.

Speaker 14 (01:00:09):
I think.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
It's different. I don't think I could do the ascending. Okay,
it's creepy, weird. Chart is very close to mine.

Speaker 10 (01:00:16):
See, you could be Tony Robbins Big Heather, just without
the sexual assault.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
And whatnot. Yeah, if you just avoid that part, you
should be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Honestly, my rising is such a terrious Oh there's your sage.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
You're just gonna see in the shadows as long as
you can manage.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I wouldn't No, I would not do it with it.

Speaker 18 (01:00:35):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
I wouldn't do it the way that he would do it.
I wouldn't do it in a different way. But the
moon and aries would be the petulance. It would be
the I can do what I want, don't test me.
I can say whatever I want.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
They get in your face ness. Yeah, that would all
do the bone in areas.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
I clocked him for Capricorn or I was thinking Leo too,
like I didn't thought No, this scene makes it more
interesting and more shady, because that just means that if
he's a price, he's truly a Pisces, then he is
an unevault Pisces, and he really likes the shadow side
of himself, and that's where he lives.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
He lives with its addictions, and he lives.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
In that darker place, which means that his sexuality is
going to be chanted. And that means I will bet
you a million dollars something going to come out and
say that they were braced or they were abused, or
are sets called, or that he owns a BDS up
club somewhere or something. There's going to be something, or

(01:01:32):
he creates fourn in his spare time's gonna be something.
So what about this virgo guy now our friend chief?

Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
Yeah, key, yeah, Keith with a two hundred and forty
IQ like again stated, but there's no documentation or reference
or there's nothing saying how he found out that he
had a two higher forty IQ. I don't even think
IQ tests go up to two forty. So he founded
his company with Nancy Salzman in nineteen ninety eight and

(01:02:09):
they've been at next seme ever since then. So this
has been around for a really long time. Yes, it
has set up very similarly to the way Scientology is
set up. I got really fascinated with scientology when I
was in high school. I got really fascinated by cults
when I was in high school. That was a weird
kid in high school. So very similar to Scientology. They

(01:02:32):
recruit you by offering you professional success. Their original programs
are started as an executive success program and it's billed
as if you take this program, you will succeed professionally,
also personally, but mostly professionally. If people want to advance

(01:02:53):
in their careers, this will help you improve yourself so
you can advance in your careers. You'll learn how to
talk people, you'll learn how to make good impressions, you'll
be a problem solverer, and you'll develop great skills and
you'll do awesome in your career. And that's their original
sales pitch studies like a business coach, a business coach exactly.

(01:03:15):
But again he's got the same thing going on where
you're not allowed to talk about the courses, you're not
allowed to film anything, you're not allowed to record anything,
and all that good stuff. He also has lawyers too,
an NDAs and a lot of bullshit, all sorts of stuff.

(01:03:37):
And the agreements that you make when you start taking
the courses are much closer to a gag order than
an NBA. And his title in the I'm gonna go
look cult here, I'm just gonna go cult. Let's do cals.

Speaker 13 (01:03:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:53):
So his title in the Cult is vanguard, which is
as a military term for the part of your military
unit that goes first in the head honcho. Yeah, they're
the badasses that run out in front to make sure
it's clear for the rest of the army to come,
so they clear the way.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
He was really weird too, because when you joined the program,
didn't you have to give some kind of collateral when.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
You join the super secret organization within the cult. So
we have a cult, and then we have a super
secret organization just for women in of course we do,
of course, exactly, of course we do, because it's gonna
get that much grosser now. Chief claims that all of

(01:04:44):
his techniques and everything that they teach is based on
logic and scientific reasoning and firm psychology, and he's developed
these techniques and they're going to solve all the world's problems.
All you have to do is pay the low price
of three thousand dollars per class or more.

Speaker 18 (01:05:00):
What we're just talking about of how we don't exactly
know why it works, but we know the methodology that
we use and how we help people. I want to
ask you about that all the participants working with Nancy Salzman.
When I talk with people, I say they used the
technology rational inquiry, and I'm an executive coaching e SP
I understand what that is. But when I talk to

(01:05:21):
people about that we have this technology. I think the
first thing that comes to people's mind is machine. There's
this thing, and I try to explain to that, No,
you don't understand that there's no machine. This is a
conversation with people. I'm curious as so, why do you
call rational inquiry a technology? And then how do you
see that works or how does that help or how
does the methodology work and help people with threads, you know,

(01:05:44):
you could call it a methodology too, but a technology.
If you look at the definition of the word, I
think technology.

Speaker 12 (01:05:53):
Fits more tidler. We have a series of theoretical un
understandings that have procedures and methodologies with them that we
apply to different situations to get certain types of results.
Technology isn't all hardware. There's software technology, there's all sorts

(01:06:14):
of human technology. There are people who object to that word,
and you could say, as I said, methodologies or knowledge
base or.

Speaker 14 (01:06:25):
Things like that, but it is It is a.

Speaker 12 (01:06:32):
It is based on certain types of understandings and assumptions.
We can challenge those assumptions and understand what it does
to the thing itself. It is in itself. The knowledge
of the knowledge base is like an object and we
apply it in different ways. So it's not just one methodology.

(01:06:56):
It's not a single step by step thing. It's base
on a guiding guiding principles that are understandings.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
So I think more it more.

Speaker 12 (01:07:08):
Fits into a technology type of U say, and when
I believe it's just because we are scientifically oriented that
we would call it that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
So they first were exposed in the big time back
in two thousand and three by Forbes. So they did
an article on Nexium, and they did a bunch of
interview with the high ranking people, including a bunch of
people who are now voice jail, and also some of

(01:07:43):
the families of people who are members of Nexium and
the Nexium people thought it was going to be a
very positive article, but when it came out, it was
talking about how they were a self help cult. So
in two thousand and three, Forbes pissed off Nexium, which

(01:08:04):
I'm like, Wow, go Forbes, that's pretty cool. And then
Vanity Fair picked it up and ran with it too,
And then Forbes did another article in twenty ten talking
about how bad they were of business because they had
failed at a bunch of commodities dealings and real estate deals.
Led by Keith, so his two hundred and forty IQ
apparently doesn't extend to financial matters. In the podcast, I

(01:08:26):
think they were talking about how one of the ladies
who ran one of the centers that ended up closing
was coerced into giving Keith like over a million dollars
for investments. I think her name was Barbara in the podcast.
Oh that's right, Yes, I remember her. Do you remember that.

Speaker 12 (01:08:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:08:46):
Yeah, she had to give him like six hundred thousand,
and then she had to give him three hundred thousand
and four hundred thousand, and he just kept losing the investments.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
I feel so bad for that lady Cheap because she
really believed in him, and I think they were dating, correct, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
It turns out he was dating everyone. Yeah, pew months.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
But she was one of the origin of all girlfriends. Yeah,
she was a number one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Wife or number two wives, not wife, but you know
what I'm talking about, ed girlfriend, Yeah, head girlfrind something.

Speaker 4 (01:09:13):
She wasn't the head girlfriend, but she was up there
to the first level because there's a lot of a.

Speaker 19 (01:09:17):
Lot of One of the founders of All the Girl Friends,
Barbara Bouschet, met Keith Ranieri in the spring of two
thousand through her therapist and friend Nancy Salzman. Bouchet, a
financial planner, says she was going through a divorce and
had lost her best friend when Salisman encouraged her to
join Nexium's Executive Success Programs, a self improvement course Salisman

(01:09:38):
had started with Ranieri.

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
It was so life changing and profound.

Speaker 13 (01:09:42):
Keith actually taught more than half of the program because
it was new.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
Within a few months, Bouchet says her feelings toward Ranieri grew,
as did her connection to Nexium nine.

Speaker 13 (01:09:53):
Now very very much in love with Keith, very aligned
with the philosophy, and a really have experienced the changes
within me. So I began helping Keith and Nancy develop
infrastructure and organizational skills in sales and marketing material and

(01:10:14):
helping to train people.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
Whuscha says their relationship was not typical dating.

Speaker 13 (01:10:20):
Keith Ranieri did not look like going to dinner or
a weekend at the beach.

Speaker 10 (01:10:25):
Keith didn't do those kind of social things.

Speaker 13 (01:10:28):
Still, she believed they were in a committed relationship. I
drove Keith to all the events. He slept at my
house three four nights a week. People would move if
they were sitting on the couch next film, let me
sit next films for all general purposes, my observation of
how it looked how the peoples. I was his soulmate,
his companion in his significant girlfriend.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
Bouche now admits there were red flags that caused her
to feel uneasy from other women.

Speaker 13 (01:10:56):
I didn't know for a year that there was anybody
else who was involved with and during the nine years
there were twelve women, so he had Dannily insists with to.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
What Bouchet says was a pattern of manipulation from those
closest to Ranieri.

Speaker 13 (01:11:09):
I know the people got to see the glimmers of
this dark side of Keith in the abuse within his
inner circle that started to trickle.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
Down by two thousand and nine, Bouche says she knew
she had to get out.

Speaker 4 (01:11:21):
I gave it the girl's scout track. I really did.

Speaker 6 (01:11:25):
So.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
Yeah, that's really just very ugly. And so they lost
a bunch of staff and they recruited a bunch of
babies people. Sarah Edmondson, he is actually a Canadian actress,
and so she ended up opening up her own Nexium
recruitment center in Canada. One of the reasons why she

(01:11:47):
was so isolated from DOS, which is where like the
really bad shit happened, is because, for one, she was
in Canada and Nexium was based in New York, so
she had that distance, and she was one of the
prime sellers recruitment people, so she was busy making them
lots of money and stuff. She was left alone. So

(01:12:09):
the rest of the stuff that happened to a lot
of the other women in DOS, which.

Speaker 10 (01:12:14):
Is a weird name because I always think, ms, yeah, yeah,
so you're there too, every time that I hear.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
It, and I don't remember that's the women's group.

Speaker 10 (01:12:23):
I'm thinking to myself, he did something with computers or
like a computer programming, or he corrupted something, and he's
just DOS anymore, and and I'm like, oh, that's just
it's an abbreviation for the women's group that he made
into a freaking sex cult.

Speaker 4 (01:12:37):
Which apparently is short for some Latin phrase that I
couldn't find anywhere, means something like women should be subservient
to men, going like, just straight up, I'll rather across
the quote. I have nineteen articles saved between Tony Robbins
and Nexane that were going over here. The women in DOS.
There were four levels of membership organization. The first level

(01:13:03):
it was a system of slaves and masters. The first
top level there were eight women and they were all
slaves to Keith directly, and then each of those women
were expected to recruit their own slaves yep. And then
their slaves were expected to recruit their own slaves for

(01:13:24):
four levels, and he was considered the grand master of
the organization. But nobody knew that the other people had slaves.

Speaker 10 (01:13:35):
Only the top level of slaves, the top level, those
eight women at the top and Keith organized the whole thing,
and then the bottom three levels didn't know about each
other or about each other's slaves, right, It was all
very secret.

Speaker 4 (01:13:50):
Nobody knew from the second level down. Nobody knew who
else was in the organization. They were all kept separate
from each other. And it was a just aside from
all the sex stuff, like all the psychological stuff was
pretty tortuous too.

Speaker 20 (01:14:06):
Maxwell was to recruit women to join DOS, which was
a secret society within a mixium, and during her statement
on Monday, she admitted to recruiting women to this group.
Under the guys it was female empowerment.

Speaker 21 (01:14:22):
Sarah Edmondson says she fell for that ploy. One night
in March of twenty seventeen, she says she and four
other women were summoned to a house outside of Albany,
New York. They willingly participated in a strange initiation ritual
led by a woman who told everyone to take off
their clothes and put on a blindfold.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Let us in blindfolded, and status in a semicircle buck
naked no clothes on a sheepskin rug.

Speaker 21 (01:14:50):
Edmondson told authorities that she thought they were going to
get tattoos. Instead, she says they found out they were
all going to be branded.

Speaker 4 (01:14:59):
What was felt like it was worse than childbirth.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
So imagine a hot laser dragged across your fledge for
thirty minutes without anesthetic.

Speaker 12 (01:15:09):
I'm an interesting person, I'm a controversial person, but most importantly,
I'm an unconventional person.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
I was told that he was one of the smartest
men in the world and just an incredible man.

Speaker 21 (01:15:21):
At the heart of Nexium training was something called intensives,
which former members described as group therapy. It ran as
long as fourteen hours a day and for up to
sixteen days. Edmondson says she attended her first one in
two thousand and five, the price tag over two thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
I left my five day my initial training as if
a veil had been lifted and I could see things
more clearly in my life.

Speaker 21 (01:15:48):
According to former members, Nexium even had its own lingo,
and the sessions came to involve practices such as chanting
a special handshake, even bowing van guard. Edmondson recalls how
devoted Ranieri's followers were, so much so that they traveled

(01:16:09):
from all over the world to celebrate his birthday, an
annual celebration known as Vanguard.

Speaker 4 (01:16:15):
Week, wishing Vanguard a happy birthday.

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
I love to v Week.

Speaker 4 (01:16:19):
I loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
It was my favorite time of year. I missed my
best friend's wedding and so makes me emotional because if
that's more important to be a vw Week, I missed
her wedding.

Speaker 21 (01:16:29):
Edmondson was in the group for twelve years, rising through
the ranks. During that time, she says she became close
to another Nexium member, Lauren Salsman. Salsman was even Edmondson's
maid of honor.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
She's like my therapist, and in the ranking system, she's
also above me.

Speaker 21 (01:16:44):
In March of twenty seventeen, after their years together in Nexium,
Edmondson says Salzman approached her about a new and mysterious.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
Opportunity, life changing but top secret.

Speaker 21 (01:16:57):
But Edmondson claims Salsman demanded highly compromising collateral first. In response,
she says, she and some others ended up providing nude
photos of themselves.

Speaker 3 (01:17:08):
I did it because I trusted her.

Speaker 21 (01:17:10):
Only then did she gain entry.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
And the first step is making a valve obedience to
her as me being a slave and her being my master.
Again she used, she chased the word slave, did you
of course?

Speaker 13 (01:17:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
It objected every stage of the way, and she said,
it's just a it's a metaphor, it's a guru disciple.

Speaker 21 (01:17:29):
All of this, she says, led up to the night
when she and four women submitted one by one to
being branded, and.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
The woman on the table screamed out in pain, twisted
and turned and yelled, and the woman I was with
holding her legs down and looked.

Speaker 4 (01:17:43):
At each other and we just wept. Why didn't you
let go and run out of there, even naked?

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
It didn't seem like a choice at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
They just got really weird, and I felt bad for
Sarah and said because she didn't know that all this
other stuff was going on, like that he was sleeping
with everybody, but she was going to these meetings and
the whole thing where I was talking to you about
the cows, like she was there for that that would
be reight flying for me and be like, okay about
that's it the cows.

Speaker 4 (01:18:15):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
One of the meetings, they were secretly taking pictures of
women's boobs and yes, they were gonna do something about cows.
And while everybody was talking, they were secretly taking pictures
of women's crotches and like underwear shots or with them
bending over or like over the shoulder shots of cleavage,

(01:18:38):
and they were taking upskirts and down shirts. Yeah, and
when people were bending over butt shots. So you can
see that they were supposed to be doing this thing
about cows, and that they inserted these pictures all of
these women that didn't know that they weren't getting film.
And then they're like, see, there's no difference between cows

(01:18:59):
and women. They both sall a purpose and nobody said anything.

Speaker 4 (01:19:04):
They were just like totally go with it. Everybody's laughing off. Yeah,
it was a little uncomfortable, but they laughed.

Speaker 13 (01:19:10):
Huh.

Speaker 4 (01:19:11):
The act itself is scary enough, but the laughing it
off and then just moving along like it didn't happen
is even scarier, especially the women who's like boobs.

Speaker 10 (01:19:20):
It was, who the fuck told you you could take
a picture of it?

Speaker 4 (01:19:22):
But boobs? And I am not cow.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
I guess there was a different set on r that
was just for Ben and it was like how men think.
And the whole thing was about how men really just
want to fuck and that's it, and they want to
look at women and they want to fuck women and
that's all they wanted to do, and they want to
dominate and that's okay because.

Speaker 10 (01:19:44):
That's how men supposed to be or something like.

Speaker 4 (01:19:47):
That, and that's how they were meant to be.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Women just need to figure that out, and as soon
as they figure that out, then everything is fine. And
that is how a successful marriage is. If a woman
can find their place and realize that men just want
to fuck and that's it, then women can just stay
in their place and be there for that. They can
be sexual and they need to keep a certain weight,
in a certain look, and they need to be sexually

(01:20:11):
attractive to you at all times because whenever you have
that urge they need to be there for you. If
they can succeed in that, then that is how your
marriage is going to survive.

Speaker 4 (01:20:23):
Yeah, exactly. And I mean also taught that it was
the nature of men to be polyamorous, but it was
the nature of women to be monogamous.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
Right Yeah, no, wow, And you say, like thousands of
dollars to get this witty knowledge for this person.

Speaker 10 (01:20:43):
Yeah, don't get me wrong. I get the I've been
married and we've all been in long term relationships, and yeah,
every once in a while it's nice to keep up appearances,
I suppose, or look nice for your significant other, but
not to that extreme that you have to be on call.
If it's your job six at twelve, I gotta shave
my legs for that. No, that would be lenient, Maria.

(01:21:06):
According to this, that would be me lenient.

Speaker 4 (01:21:08):
So in Doss and the whole Dos secret society was
the slaves and masters that they were all just like
the on call sex slaves for Key. As it turned out,
at one point in time, every slave in Dos was
called on to perform the duty of the satisfying.

Speaker 9 (01:21:31):
Jesus.

Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
But part of the process was that they would be
tested they were literally on call. They would receive a
call at random hours, even the middle of the night
or whatever, and they were required to respond to it
from their master within a certain amount of time, and
that would be to send them on an errand or

(01:21:54):
to do something, or to check in or something.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
So they were trained to always be responsive, like literally
on call. Yeah, they had the whole minutes to answer or.

Speaker 4 (01:22:05):
Something like that. Yeah, I don't remember an exact number,
but it was under five minutes. They had to be respond.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
Even if it was in the middle of the night,
like it was three in the morning.

Speaker 4 (01:22:14):
They would test them and they had to wake up
and respond and be ready, and they were required to
maintain their appearance in a manner that was pleasing to Keith.
Were those just the eight or the whole girls?

Speaker 10 (01:22:29):
Regardless of the tier that you were in, it's the
whole brud.

Speaker 4 (01:22:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
And the other thing too that you had to do
was like you had to do chores for your master,
so anything anything. Sarah said that she would have her
earth slaves come and clean her house or help her
with sales or helper with saints, so they would have
to come within two minutes of her calling. They are texting,
they would have to reply and then they would have

(01:22:55):
to go over there, whether they were doing something or not.

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
Exactly. Another woman said that she had one of her
slaves right over the pink flip to her preas Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 10 (01:23:10):
That's some really weird, like mind controlable shit.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
The other thing too, is you had to pay those
upwards of ten thousand.

Speaker 10 (01:23:17):
Dollars to pay in this, yeah, like once or like annually.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
You had to maintain your courses, so you would spend
ten thousand dollars on this one dosstick, but you would
have to be paying out all the time for fees.

Speaker 4 (01:23:31):
Wow, lots of brainwashing. That's just little. The whole thing
is designed to break you down. Yeah, manipulate you. Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:23:40):
They were talking about how if you were in class,
you have to like either thank Keith, do like a
prayer or something, or recite their tenants before you actually
took the class every time that you would go in,
and if you didn't want to participate because supposedly like
they were silly like they it was like a like
it's one of those dumb things that people make you

(01:24:01):
do in cults. But if you even remotely were like, no,
I don't want to participate or I don't want to
do this, even if it's to hold your hands and
sing keep Kumbaya. If you do that, then it's like, oh,
what's wrong, why don't you want to? They would do
that that whole like what to your problem routine.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
There was a lot of that though. It was very
much if you're not with us, you're against us, doesn't
matter who you are. And the whole thing with Collateral
if you go out of line that we have the
stuff that we use against you at athy time, So
like jink, dark secrets, pictures of your naked jets, to houses,

(01:24:41):
things like that. If given we're a little bit out
of line that we could use these things against you,
we could.

Speaker 4 (01:24:46):
Totally rein you. They acclimate the members to the idea
of Collateral early on. When you first join Nexium, you're
assigned a coach who is I have a certain level
above you. There's like a certain coaching level where you
get a yellow sash. There's like sashes and stripes and stuff. Okay,
a coach is at the yellow sash level upon joining Nexium,

(01:25:08):
and you have to call them every single day and
check in with them. You would be introduced to the
idea of collateral early on, and it would be things like,
if you had a goal of going to the gym
three times a week, you would give your coach fifty bucks,
and then if you went to the gym three times
that week, you would get the fifty bucks back. That's right,

(01:25:29):
I remember that. So they would start you with the
idea of collateral early on, and then as you went
up higher in the levels, the collateral would get more
and more as their demands got higher and higher. It's
a swear jar. If you swear, you have to put
a quarter in the swear jar. So the colateral starts
out reasonable sounding. Okay, you're gonna hold this fifty bucks,
and then if I make my goal of going to

(01:25:50):
the gym, you're gonna be my fifty bucks back. That's
pretty reasonable. And then it would just get more and
more extreme as you went at higher up in the level.
So people would just acclimate to this idea of coatter
and have it ingrained, this idea that this is benefiting me,
this is benefiting me, this is benefiting me. Which is
the worst one that you've heard. A sexually explicit photos
deeds to houses. Sarah Edmondson, The actress from Canada was

(01:26:14):
recorded saying a whole bunch of shit about her family
that she didn't mean, and that was held and told
that if she went against the group, they would release
it to her family.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
She also said that her husband was abusing her and
he was a leader in the group, and she made
it up and they told her to make it up,
and then she realized when she wanted to leave the
groups that could go viral and that would have chilled
his career completely.

Speaker 4 (01:26:45):
Yep, exactly. So if you don't have collateral, they will
make collateral up right with your cooperation. They would have
people take like sexually explicit photos, not just like nwity picks,
but like sexual explicit up close intimate pictures or penetrative
pictures or post sexual act pictures and stuff like that.

(01:27:07):
Or they would have people would have to steal stuff
from the companies that they worked for and give it
to their coaches to hold on to so that they
could be turned in and fired if they went against
the group and stuff like that.

Speaker 10 (01:27:23):
Wow, so everybody was basically had something against somebody.

Speaker 4 (01:27:28):
Yep. The people higher up had stuff on all the
people below them. And when the ranks, Keith had stuff
on everyone because they would all turn over all the
collateral to him.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
It's very manipulative, it's very cult one O one, it's
very mind control. You're a part of this group, and
if you leave this group or you shut away from
this group, then therefore you are against the group.

Speaker 4 (01:27:50):
We will annihilate you. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Again, they had
the whole non disclosures, no talking to people and stuff
like that, but they would do other things to alienate
the members. I mentioned before, the whole like Orwellian double
speak thing. So they would take words that have meaning
in the English language and then redefine them to mean

(01:28:12):
something else just for the group members, so that when
the group members spoke to other people of the group,
it would sound like nonsense to other people, even though
they were using real words. They would label people who
were speaking out against the group as suppressives, and they
would talk about parasites, and they would talk about moving

(01:28:33):
towards something as opposed to moving away from something, which
is actually the common term to be used in the
self that's using self help and new age and pop
psychology circles designate the difference between having a goal that
is moving towards something which is like a positive aspirational thing,
like you're working for something rather than working a goal

(01:28:53):
that's working away from something, which is where you're trying
to avoid something. So if you want to achieve something
that's working towards something, and if you trying to stop
doing something that's working away from something.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
I remember that, and there was a lot of stuff
about it's your fault. It's a lot of strregical bypassing
where if I make you mad, then what about you
is baking you mad?

Speaker 11 (01:29:14):
It's not me.

Speaker 4 (01:29:15):
I'm just speaking my truth.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
So if you're angry at me for my actions or
something that I did, then there's obviously something wrong with you.

Speaker 4 (01:29:25):
Do you want me to change for your comfort or
do you want to face this issue that you're obviously
having internally.

Speaker 10 (01:29:33):
Yeah, it's basically blame the person when they step out
of line. It's a very common thing with like self help,
which I can see how it's beneficial, but in a
healthy way. If you want to control somebody, you want
to manipulate someone, you can easily turn it around and
really have somebody by the neck, make them do whatever
the heck you want.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
You're breaking them down it again and We've talked about
this in another podcast too, where you take like a
basic idea that is really healthy in certain situations, and
then you just take it too fucking far and you
make it really toxic instead. Sometimes it's important for you
to look at like where you're coming from and why
something is so upsetting to you, because maybe it isn't

(01:30:14):
anything to do with that other person. Like maybe you
don't like the name James. That's probably not James's fault.
Maybe you need to look at that and what your
associations are, because not every James is gonna have earned that.
But other times, like you have a problem with somebody
else's behavior because that behavior is wrong, Yeah, and you

(01:30:35):
really should have a problem with it. That's healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:30:39):
Sarah even said in the interviews that she did she
would use that too many, like people she knew she
was being a bitch, and then she would use that
against them, thinking that she was fully justified because it
was within the laws of the Horseworks and therefore you
could do it that way. And she would admits it,
She's like shit.

Speaker 4 (01:30:58):
Yeah, and she was taught to do it because that
was the policy of the group. But she thought because she.

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
Made a lot of money, and because she was one
of the top earners and because she believed this shit
that it was okay just to chew people like that
because that's how it was. And as long as she
was making money and as long as she was drinking
what they wanted, then it was okay. Whatever she could
justify to do whatever she wants.

Speaker 4 (01:31:20):
And that's that's that's virtual.

Speaker 10 (01:31:22):
I don't understand what that is, but that sounds a
lot like the military. I mean, look at military soldiers
when they have orders that are not exactly the best
orders in the world, you know, sometimes they take it
out without even thinking twice.

Speaker 4 (01:31:36):
In researching Nexium like, I found these psychoanalytical researchers who
specialize in cults, who had done articles of whether or
not it is a cult, people who have specialized in
brainwashing or what they call thought reform, and whether or
not that's actually taking place in exiom, The experts agree
with you, it's a cult. They're brainwashing people. It is

(01:31:59):
tactics used by military.

Speaker 2 (01:32:02):
I think the difference with the military, though, is you
get in the military, you get compensated. There is the house,
here's the money, here's a bunch of stuff, you know,
what it means, so they reward you for it or
is like being cults, you don't really get rewarded.

Speaker 4 (01:32:13):
You pay for the privilege. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
I think that's the difference though, and I think that's
why we make that discernment, is that when you go
into the military you're going to be brainwashed. Like you
have that awareness, like how much money do I get?
So what is it gonna the cost equals the brainwashing.
There is some cognitive choices that are made that are
up front, whereas with this kind of cult, they're teaching

(01:32:38):
you how to be more successful. Our bunnies right now,
but it teaches me work success and what Really they're
just breaking you down to use you. However, they in
the military they don't really go so far as brainwashing.
They just train you to be obedient and not orders,
which isn't the same thing as brainwashing. Thought reformation is
like a whole other level where you lose your sense

(01:33:01):
of self and individuality. You could say from one perspective
that they do that in the military. They want you
to lose yourselves to health. Yeah, in Nexium and.

Speaker 4 (01:33:10):
Other cults and other brainwashing systems, they completely isolate you
from any other kind of input or interaction.

Speaker 10 (01:33:17):
With other people, and they keep you that way.

Speaker 4 (01:33:19):
Yeah, and in the military they don't do that, like
you have boot camp. But otherwise you're allowed to communicate,
you're allowed to watch TV, you're allowed to listen to
the radio, you're allowed to do other stuff. But one
of the ways that they do this, like in cults
like Nexium the NDAs the non disclosure. You're not allowed
to discuss what you're learning. You're not allowed to tell
people about what you're learning, you're not allowed to tell

(01:33:40):
people where you're going. And then when you're going to
these places, you're spending ten, twelve, fourteen hours there, so
when people are like, oh, how did your thing go?
You can't talk about it. And then you also have
to call them every day, and your classes are so
frequent you're no longer talking about your life with people.
Then you're slowly like with the from the people around you,

(01:34:01):
like voluntarily, because you actually can't talk to them about
your life. And then on top of that, your language
is changing because they're teaching you this weird cult double speak.
So when you do talk to other people.

Speaker 10 (01:34:14):
They don't understand what you're saying, so it etches out
like people out of your life, slowly but surely, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:34:21):
And then you're taught not to trust the other people
in your life because one they're not educated, their lower vibe,
they're not as enlightened, or they're parasitic. You can't trust
them because they're just out to get you and they
want to keep you down. And whenever your family, I'm
really concerned that you're spending all this time with these

(01:34:43):
people and you're not allowed to discuss it. You're already
told you don't trust that. That's a sign that person
is trying to manipulate you.

Speaker 10 (01:34:50):
Funny enough, you know what that reminds me of. It
reminds me of I'm going to go to one of
our podcasts here, but during Virtue and what she was
saying about, Oh, what I'm saying is triggering. That's the devil,
like trying to manipulate you or fighting better judgment, which
is to be a Christian and to follow us and
blah blah blah. It's the same thing. But the thing

(01:35:13):
is that the devil is in cultures like your family
trying to tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:35:18):
Yeah, even though they don't like literally cut you off
from everyone else while shutting you in a compound, or
putting you in a prison or something. They knew these
weird psychological tactics and rules to shut you off. Several
of the people who were in that top tier that
were originally arrested have pled guilty.

Speaker 16 (01:35:39):
Alison mac pleads guilty to racketeering, conspiracy and racketeering in
the case involving Maxiom in Brooklyn Federal Court. The thirty
five year old appeared before a judge alongside her two
attorneys as she pleaded to the two counts. The former
Smallville star said she has looked back at the decisions
she made and the people she trusted, and is prepared
to take responsibility for the acts she was involved with.

Speaker 4 (01:36:01):
She said in court she.

Speaker 16 (01:36:02):
Had become lost and wanted to find a community through
it all. I believed Keith Rayniery's intentions were to help people.
She had admitted to being a member of a secret
society and founding DOS, as well as holding property as
collateral and concealing Rainieri's role as the head of DOS.
I must take full responsibility for my conduct and that
is why I am pleading guilty today, she said as

(01:36:24):
she sobbed before apologizing to her family. I am and
will be a better person as a result of this.
It's unclear what the terms of max deal are. She
had initially pled not guilty when she was indicted on
sex trafficking charges for her role in running the sex
cult led by Rainieri. Prosecutors say she recruited the women
in DOS and directed women, including other.

Speaker 4 (01:36:43):
Actresses, to have sex with Ryniery.

Speaker 16 (01:36:45):
Macvace is a maximum of forty years in prison, twenty
years on each count when she.

Speaker 4 (01:36:50):
Is sentenced on September eleven. To really put out the
severity of what was going on. A woman came from
Mexico to Albany, New York to work with the organization
when she was sixteen, and she joined his household and

(01:37:12):
all that and worked with them. After she became eighteen,
she began sleeping with them, along with all the other
women who were already sleeping with him, and he would
become extremely jealous, and she would maintain her rotation in
his little harem of people. She actually started becoming interested
in another man and asked him for permission to date him,

(01:37:36):
and he locked her in a room in his house
for two years, Oh my god, and did not let
her leave. He finally sent her back to Mexico without
her immigration papers. That I originally told the women who

(01:37:58):
were keeping her that it would only be for a
couple of days until she repented and learned her lesson.
But it turned into two years. It was terrible. I
forgot what those called like imprisonment, something like that. She
was voluntarily staying there and like voluntarily went in the room.

(01:38:18):
She wouldn't let her out. She was just supposed to
stay in there until she repented, and then she would
write him letters and letters apologizing and saying that she
learned her lesson and she wouldn't do it again. Nancy Salzman,
the younger salesman, She would take the letters to Keith
and he wouldn't even read them. Oh my gosh, this
sounds a lot like our Kelly. That part does.

Speaker 10 (01:38:40):
And like none of these women thought, hey, this guy
is she's being held against her will. It never occurred
to them like this is wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:38:50):
The girl's own mother was locked into her room next
to her for a while to show her like, look,
you're doing this to other people now because of you,
other people are now suffering again. That's why r Kelly.
They but they were all they all went through this
brainwashing thing like literal technical, and so they all thought

(01:39:12):
it was right and ethical and virtuous and for her
own good, so they all supported it. Now looking back,
they're horrified. The younger salesman woman said that she was
horribly disturbed by it, but she had wanted to start
a family. She wasn't allowed to sleep or be with
anyone else other than Keith, and he promised her that

(01:39:36):
if she did all these things and proved herself worthy,
then he would allow her to get pregnant. And so
she felt that helping keep this woman captive in the
room would prove that she had what it took to
be a responsible mother.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
That's so sad because I keep saying ar Kelly, but
I watched Surviving R. Kelly and some of these same
tactics he did. She if you get the other women
to do the dirty and do all of the chores
of the medial things, this woman deserves to be ruined,
So you need to do it.

Speaker 4 (01:40:09):
I'm not going to do it. If you cheap.

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
Dissension in the ranks, then you're like controlling everybody. And
it's just that Satan tactic of making sure all the
win are against each other, so that way nobody catches
on to what's really happening.

Speaker 4 (01:40:23):
It wasn't so much that he kept everyone against each other,
but the group of women was responsible for keeping each
other in line.

Speaker 14 (01:40:33):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:40:33):
It was said that if one of the women got
jealous of all of the other women that he was
sleeping with, then they were treated like she was just
going off and being crazy, and it was the other
women's job to calm her down or remind her of
her place right. And so one of the women I
forgot her name was considered the diffuser of the bombs,

(01:40:54):
and so she was the main go to for when
a girl was having a melt down over it, and
so he would send her specifically every could to calm
them down and bring them back into the fold. It's
the idea that you need to do it. I'm not
going to do it. It's not my problem.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
You just fucked me and you do what I say,
But I don't want to deal with any of your problems.
It's a whole They're too busy doing things abot themselves
to really get together and be like, hey, we're being
played right now.

Speaker 20 (01:41:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:41:24):
Laura Salsman, the younger of the Salsman women said that
of all the things, of all the horrible things that
she did for Keith, the worst thing that she did,
the thing that she felt the worst about was keeping
the woman locked in the room. That's horrible. Yeah, specifically,

(01:41:47):
the quote is of all the things I did in
this case and all the crimes that were committed, this
was the worst thing I did.

Speaker 10 (01:41:54):
All the good part about this is there's always a
good part is that these men are being outed.

Speaker 2 (01:42:02):
Whin Sang got outed, Archilla got outed, Tony Robins is
being outed. Textim got outed. There's many others. House the
Cards die, Karen Spacy, Oh yeah, she got outed. Thank
goodness for the beaching movement, because I know these things
are horrible. We're talking about them, but at the same
time that they're being outed and stopped and just sucked.

(01:42:24):
Agree at least they're not going to be able to
do the shouting here, just not quietly under the radar anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:42:31):
Exactly. It's not getting talked about because it's more common
than it used to be. It's just that it never
used to be talked about, and so hopefully by talking
about them, it will become less common. Through talking about it,
people are going to know what to look out for.
People are going to know they're not going to be
able to get away with it, at least not forever.
People will be able to protect themselves and know that

(01:42:52):
this shit isn't going to go unreported anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
Let's hope, because it's it's just mind boggling, how many
meta getting in a way with this.

Speaker 4 (01:43:02):
This is mine.

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
It's mind spuggling to me. It how these cults are
still created. The whole church's idology is a whole other subject,
but it's it is huge.

Speaker 4 (01:43:13):
It's huge. Yes, And if somebody out there right now
is listening to this and is struggling with a topic
like this, and they're under an NDA or some other
kind of contract requirement where they have to stay silent.
NDAs are only allowed to keep you silent for so much.

(01:43:33):
They're legally only allowed to cover so much. They're not
legally allowed to prevent you from disclosing crimes and stuff.
And if you don't believe me saying this, google it
and look it up and see the extent that an
NDA is actually allowed to cover. Because most of these
NDAs are overreaching, they're legally not allowed to cover all
the stuff that they're claiming to cover, so you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:43:55):
If you there's a crime company that you could definitely
speak up about it.

Speaker 13 (01:43:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:44:00):
Yeah, And if you don't believe us, at least do
your own research. Ask the question, do your own research.
And it's very healthy to not just believe people and
get in the habit of researching things on your own.
And that is one of the reasons why we always
include all of our links on our podcasts. Don't just
believe us, don't just believe anyone else. Do the research and.

Speaker 12 (01:44:22):
Look it up.

Speaker 2 (01:44:24):
Yeah, some of our stuff is opinion based, obviously, but
the ones that we already.

Speaker 4 (01:44:27):
Talked about real people and stuff, we always do research.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
My question just spareads.

Speaker 20 (01:44:32):
Bye.

Speaker 4 (01:44:33):
We hope you enjoyed the podcast and good night.

Speaker 22 (01:44:40):
Thank you for listening to the US Alien Podcast. For
show notes, go to www dot mbscalia dot com. I
always post links videos, any kind of research materials that
I used for the episode, so if you want to
go a little more in depth, that's where you go.
If you want more of the podcast and you like

(01:45:02):
what we're doing, consider joining our Patreon.

Speaker 9 (01:45:07):
You get the episodes quicker than everybody else. They are
at free there's terror ratings and other bonus content that
I throw out there. It's a great way to help
us out at pace for production costs, and it gives.

Speaker 20 (01:45:24):
You more contact.

Speaker 22 (01:45:26):
That's www dot vslien dot com, www Dot m v
us alien dot com and as always, see you on
the flip side.

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