Unraveling Demon House: The Ammons Haunting and Paranormal Reality

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You are listening to the NVS Alien Podcast with your host,
Heather Woodward, an award winning psychic, supernatural author and lover
of all things true crime. On this show, we're going
to deep dive into topics so don't usually see the
light of day, the spooky, the weird, the macabre, the paranormal,
and of course aliens. Sit back, grab a cup of tea,

(00:21):
and let's get on with the show.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Remember, before we get started, whatever it says to you,
do not listen to it. It will play on your heart,
it will play on your mind. My name is a
possible Bernese James. The other person present is Ebony Jackson.
Good mother, father. We ask that you cleanse and sanctify us.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
For this deliverance evidence.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Get back.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
If you believe.

Speaker 5 (01:04):
You shall be saved, you shall be saved. You shall
be saved.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
You shall be said.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Everybody. Welcome to the Envius Alien Podcast. Today we're gonna
be talking about the movie The Deliverance and the Emmon's Case.
This movie is based off of a real air quotes
exorcism case or haunting. I don't know what. They call
the house the Portal to Hell. It's all very spectacular

(02:18):
and that's because after the Emmin family moved out of
the house, Zach Baggins bought it for thirty five thousand
dollars and then called it air quotes the Demon House
and filmed something there and then decided that it was

(02:38):
his duty to destroy the house because we can't have
a portal to hell. Oh my God, takes all the
fun stuff and makes it go away. I actually don't
like Zach Waggins, and I think that he is a
complete monster, and his ego is so big that I
don't know. Maybe his ego is the portal to the hell.

(03:00):
That's how I feel about it. I don't know why
he had to sensationalize it. This movie is interesting to me,
and usually I don't talk about exorcism movies or haunting
movies because most of them are crap and I'm just
like lah about it. But I want to talk about
this movie in particular because it brings up something that
I don't see a lot of times, in like haunting

(03:26):
types of movies, and I've seen them all. I am
a connoisseur of found footage, exorcism and anything paranormal. I've
seen about ninety five percent of the movies out there,
and this one is different. It's different because it talks
about the underbelly of humanity. It gives other perspectives on

(03:49):
why these kinds of things could be happening. And I
was like, Oh, interesting, we're leaving it up in the air. Yes,
there are demonic forces in this Yes, the last quarter
of this movie is very much the trope. It is
a movie, so we have to go there right before
it takes you there. It gives you other situations, other variables,

(04:15):
other scenarios that could be happening as well. And it's
something that I have encountered in my twenty plus years
experience doing these kinds of cases and being in haunted
houses and error quotes demonic houses and my experiences. Now,

(04:38):
I want to say that the movie itself is very
much about the African American experience and it's set in
that culture and it's in that neighborhood, is what I
want to say. And I don't have any experience with that,
And I just want to say that out loud because
I don't want anyone to think that I'm saying that

(05:00):
I know about those family dynamics and living in those
kinds of neighborhoods and living in that kind of culture.
I do not I do not have that experience. I
am coming from it from a different place. I'm coming
from it from a place of being in the paranormal field,
having seen these kinds of family dynamics from many cultures

(05:24):
and many nationalities. There's an overarching theme with this kind
of stuff. Doesn't matter your race, it doesn't matter where
you came from. I'm coming from a person that's actually
had some of these experiences and has witnessed situations that
are in the movie and going, Okay, here's something that

(05:47):
that I can actually bite into a little bit. This
is not superfluous. This is not just sensationalized. This isn't
just a trope. This isn't just about the air quotes
demonic force. Because I noticed that a lot of movies
are really about this idea that you have to go

(06:08):
into this suspension of disbelief that demons do exist or
that these negative demonic forces exist, especially in movies with
the Vatican involved, or with Christianity involved or Catholicism. Many

(06:31):
of them about priests, and then we go into that
whole dynamic of yes, the reason why these priests exist
is because these demonic forces exist, and the show Evil
really takes that on and satirizes it a bit. I
would say, the jokes on you with that show. I
love that show because of that, because there are demons

(06:52):
in it and it does really have to do with
the Catholic Church. But then they do it so that
it's it's a joke. It's a little bit of a joke.
It's there and it's real and it's happening. But then
merle laughing at it too, because really it's that kind
of thing. This movie doesn't go in that direction, but

(07:13):
there are other variables that had There are other nuances,
there's other things that are happening in this movie that
lead up to the deliverance, and the deliverance says not
about the demon it's a redemption story on the whole.
The movie is really about facing your own trauma and
facing your own fears and then coming out of it

(07:36):
a different person or learning the lessons that you can
evolve as a human being. And I really love that
aspect of it, and that's why I want to talk
about this. So the movie is on Netflix. It came
out during Labor Day weekend of two thousand and twenty.
It just showed up. There was nothing about it, and

(07:59):
then people started talking talking about it. I've seen tons
of tiktoks about it. I've seen a lot of YouTube
videos about it. People are just talking about it because
it's an interesting film. I just watched it because those
are the kinds of movies that I'm interested in. And
of course Netflix is gonna be like, you've watched every

(08:19):
other demonic animal movie in my catalog. Here, we'll throw
this at you. So it was like right there in front,
and I was like, oh, this looks interesting. And then
I was a little curious because Monique isn't it and
Glenn Close? And I was like, what is Glenn Close doing?

(08:40):
And it exercist movie? This makes no sense. I'm like,
how are the two of these people in the same movie.
What's going on here? And it caught my curiosity because
these are top tier actors. These are people that paid
a lot of money to be in movies, and so

(09:02):
this isn't going to be some cheap ass, shitty paranormal
movie about things that didn't really happen. And that's the thing.
That's the one thing that I want to say right
away about most of these movies, these paranormal movies, the
Conjuring series, all that bullshit. Oh my god, someday I'll
go into it. But the Warrens are some of the

(09:23):
worst people I feel in the paranormal world. They lied,
they made up stuff, They did a lot of shitty
things to further their careers and make them into these
larger than live characters that are there to get rid
of demonic forces and to face the devil. And these

(09:45):
movies are so one sided, and they just create this
narrative of these perfect people who are doing the Lord's
work kind of thing, or some of the movies are
just about the paranormal aspect of it. They don't have
any like nuance. They don't talk about the people or

(10:07):
the situations that are happening inside the home to have
this kind of phenomenon show up. And there are factors
to that. Every case that I have encountered that has

(10:27):
air quotes a demonic force or has some kind of
malevolent force or haunting has always had certain traumatic events
that happen in these people's lives. There's always some kind
of drama or some kind of unresolved dysfunction that is

(10:48):
in the family that comes out later where you're like, oh,
there it is. There's the inception of all of this.
I have never ever read about, explored, or investigated a
case in my twenty plus years that did not have
some kind of contributing factor that had been to do

(11:12):
with unresolved trauma. Unresolved trauma always brings about these kinds
of situations, and that's just how it is. I feel like,
for based on my own personal experience, and that's it.
I'm not saying that I know everything, because I absolutely don't,

(11:33):
but from my personal experience, you cannot have these kinds
of situations if you are not encountering or experiencing some
kind of trauma or underlying dysfunction or something that's been
swept under the rug that we're not talking about or

(11:54):
we're not we're not dealing with like unresolved emotions. It's
unresolved trauma, it's un resolves psychosis. And that's something that
this film really highlighted. And I was like, WHOA, Okay,
we're going there. This is great. I feel really good
about this. I'm gonna keep watching, and I just want
to give you some details about this film. It was

(12:14):
directed by Lee Daniels. You might have heard of him.
He directed a bunch of movies. He's won a bunch
of awards, which, again I was like, what is this
dude doing? Why is he making an extorsism movie? But
it's because most of his movies are about the underbelly

(12:34):
of humanity. He did Precious, he did Empire, the TV Show.
He did The Woodsman, which is a movie with Kevin
Bacon in it that is excellent, thought provoking but also
just really oh it'll make you squishy trigger warning. Precious
is too, but The Woodsman's I had a really hard

(12:54):
time getting through it, and not because it's gross or
because it's it's an uncle comfortable topic. You just have
to watch it. Anyway. He's also done Monsterball. Last year,
he did this movie called The Reader, which I haven't seen,
but it looked very interesting and it did have a
paranormal bend to it, and I'm going to watch it
now because of this movie. Anyway, He's done a lot

(13:15):
of really interesting movies that have won a lot of awards,
that really look at humans as a whole, in the
underbelly of humanity and shines a light on things we
don't like talking about. This really goes into the deliverance
because the movie is about this woman. Her husband is

(13:45):
she says he's at war, but he's not really a
part of the kids' lives. He does talk to the kids,
but he's really just an absentee parent, and she's at
home with three kids. She lives with her mother too.
She is an African American woman and she has a
white mother, and there's a lot that goes into that

(14:08):
as well. And she has cancer and this is the
practice being played by Glenn Close. And she's living with
her daughter because she's going through cancer and chemotherapy, and
their dynamic is really strained because we find out that
that Glenn closest character let some abuse happen to her daughter,

(14:34):
and the daughter is still very pissed off and has
trauma around that. And so here we go again with
this whole idea of dysfunction, the underbelly of humanity, this
idea of this unresolved trauma, and these cheap people are
in the house trying to get along even though they disagree.

(14:57):
The mother is remorseful of her actions because she's been
faced with death, but the daughter, the main character of
this movie, is grappling with her own trauma, her own
anger around being banded by the children's father and really

(15:21):
feeling abandoned by her own mother, and then having to
face that like head on. I'm not gonna give you
all the details of the movie. I'm just gonna say
that this is all the kind of stuff that I
have experienced in these kinds of cases. And I was like, Oh,

(15:41):
here we go. So I'm really going to talk about
this because in this movie, the demonic force is actually
like a secondary character. All this happened because of this.
People want to blame it on the house or the situation.
People always like, oh, yeah, it's the house. The dnemonic

(16:02):
entity was in the house. That's why Zach Bggin's dick
bag of the paranormal body. It's because he's all, it
must be a portal to hell. But what if the
variables of this unresolved trauma was actually what created the
portal to help. What if these people with their unresolved

(16:22):
issues are feeding into that. What if it was an
open area or I call it like a fissure in
the veil. Right, so it's there in this house. Maybe
we're on some lay lines, maybe we're on something the
veil is thin in that area. But you have to

(16:43):
feed it right, you have to give it some kind
of power. And I really truly believe that unresolved trauma,
these darker feelings feed into that and that's what creates it.
It's almost like creating a platform or inn a gregor
It's where you have to put something into it in
order for it to even exists. You have to breathe

(17:04):
life into it. So we go more into the narrative
of these two women and the family, and then you
realize that this mother is taking out her anger on
her kids, and so we have a scene where she
actually slaps one of her kids right in the mouth
for talking back. And then later on there's a few

(17:27):
scenes where Monique's character comes in and she's let's talk
about the bruises on your children? Why do your kids
have bruises, and her really having to face up to
the idea that she's doing things to her kids, and
she's mad at her mother for the things that have

(17:49):
done have been done to her, But then she's doing
things to her own kids, and she's justifying it because
she's drinking or she's blacking out, or she's pot and
so she doesn't realize the things that she's doing. And
there are a few scenes that are really playing in
this movie where you hear screaming from the kids and

(18:13):
you hear noise, but then you don't know if the
mother is doing it because she's drunk and she's blocking
out and she's hitting her kids, or if it's part
of this demonic force. And it doesn't really matter in
my opinion, because of all one and the same, it

(18:33):
all stems from the same energy, which is that a
raisolve shava. Anyways, the white woman mother figure comes in
and she opens the door, and all the kids are
up against a wall and their mother is sitting there
and she has no idea what is going on or

(18:54):
what's happening or how she got there. And I was like,
so interesting because it could go like aid, it could
go either way. It could be this house the stomonic force,
or it could be the mother actually doing it, but
nobody says anything. And that's so interesting too, because that
is so dynamic when it comes to these kinds of
situations where nobody wants to talk about what is really

(19:15):
happening that creates dysfunction and unresolved trauma. It creates that
sense of not feeling safe. And what happens in most
of these paranormal demonic situations nobody feels safe. Everyone feels
like the house is volatile, everyone feels like the house

(19:36):
is out to get them. Everyone feels like the experiences
in the house are horrific. Right, there's things in the
house that are happening that we don't want to look at,
the mental, physical, or verbal abuse. That's people in the
house that are, you know, forcing you into these very unsafe,

(20:03):
shitty situations. I'm not gonna give the whole thing away,
but there's another scene that I thought was so powerful
and poigant, where the kid's mother. She is being asked
questions like do you hear voices? These sometimes experience things
that you feel are parormal? Do you have blackouts? Do

(20:28):
you experience things that you think happened, but then you're
not sure if they really did. Like they're going through
this whole question here, I'm like, Oh, they're wondering if
she's got a mental issue or they're trying to figure
out if this is something paranormal or if it's her
like maybe she's got some kind of psychosis or schizophrenia

(20:49):
and I was like, that's interesting too, because what if
everything she has experienced and what if it becomes like
a mass hysteria thing where it's things that she thinks
she's experiencing, and then she's putting that into the house
and onto the children. Again, we're feeding the energy, we're
feeding the thought from We're feeding the now hysterical of
Gregor what if it's really just this unresolved trauma and

(21:10):
the anger and the frustration of this woman who is
saddled with three kids and a dying parental figure that
she resents but also feels trauma bonded. So there's a
lot of lines here that are across and a lot
of nuances that are overlaid with this whole movie. And

(21:34):
I found it to be really interesting to watch because
of that, because yes, we have the last chord of movie,
which is very demonic forced I say force intentionally because
we're like, Okay, we're going there. I guess we have
to do that. But again, I feel like the deliverance
in this movie is really about the redemption of dealing

(21:56):
with your trauma, of being forced to look at your
own self in mirror and recognize your own shadow self,
whether or not these demonic forces are real. Is not
really the point of the movie. The point is to
be cleansed of that shadow self, and the whole idea
to transformation or transfiguration of that spiritual energy and moving

(22:22):
it into a better place than actually becoming a better person.
At the end of the movie, things are different and
there is a redemption to it, and so that's cool. Unfortunately,
many of the cases that I have experienced did not
have great redemption arcs. They didn't have great special effects.

(22:44):
These people continue to have the trauma and moved out
of the house and then moved into another house and
then they're like, oh my god, the demon came with me.
You're the demon. Sorry to tell you. There have been
many cases where people are literally their own haunting, where
something will be happening in the house and I'll go

(23:07):
into the house with my team. I've had two or
three investigative teams in my experiences. I don't investigate with
people like that anymore. I do have friends who I
investigate with. Stephanie is one of them, and she's been
on this podcast a ton. But before then, I used
to have actual teams. Back in the ghost Hunters days
and that TV show. There's millions of other TV shows

(23:29):
that were on TV, and I was like, oh, yes,
I need to have a perenmal team. And I wrote
out a whole handbook of how to investigate. Yeah, I
was deep in it. Yeah, so I don't do that
much anymore. But during that time, we used to do
a lot of houses, people calling us to come in

(23:52):
and look at their house. And I can tell you
straight out certain types of phenomenon. I just started asking questions,
like the same questions over and over again. Always good
to stay out to this. But usually how it happens is
lights won't start flickering on and off. That's the one thing.
And then it turns into cabinet doors opening and closing,

(24:16):
and then that turns into seeing a dark shadow figure
in a hallway or in a mirror behind you, and
then it turns into's seeing these figures in windows or
any kind of reflective surface. And then as you become
more fearful, then they become like the loud noises and

(24:39):
the cabinet doors slamming, or doors opening and closing by themselves.
And as the person becomes more fearful and realizes all
this stuff is happening, then chair stop moving and tournature
stops moving, So there is a progression that happens. And
the first thing I started asking was did something traumatic
happen to you just recently and like in the last

(25:00):
six months? Is there a correlation between this trauma happening
and the phenomenon happening in the house? And did somebody
recently die? Did you get a divorce? Are you doing
any kind of therapy right now and having to deal
with any kind of trauma? Did you lose a house?
Like anything? Giving those examples, people are like, oh, yeah,

(25:20):
this happened. It's usually divorce or somebody dying. Those are
the two big ones. Or I just left a very
toxic relationship. That's the other one that I hear all
the time. And I'm like, okay, so there's that correlation.
Did the phenomenon start to pick up once you recognized it? Yeah?

(25:42):
Are you always hear when the phenomenon happens? I know
other people experience it in the house, but are you
always in the room or near the phenomenon? Yes? Okay,
hate to break at you. You are the haunting. It's you.
You are creating your own haunting. What, yeah, do you project?

(26:05):
Do you have a lot of strong feelings about this.
Are you hurt? Do you notice when you walk intoughs
the lights flicker on and off? Yeah, yeah, it's you.
It's you. No, that can't be. It has to be
a demonic force. No, it's not. It's you. You're the
person doing it. No, there's no way. I want you

(26:27):
to leave the house, and then I want to see
if the phenomenon goes away. Usually, nine times out of ten,
if the person is removed from the home, the phenomenon
doesn't happen at all, The haunting is not even there.
They come back into the house hours later. Oh look,

(26:49):
it's happening again. What about the shadow that I saw? Yeah,
to you, you're protecting your energy. It's you. If you
know about Servitood's thought forms a greyguards, if you know
about that kind of magic, or if you know about
that kind of experience, then it makes perfect sense. We
literally breathe life into our thoughts, and we literally breathe

(27:10):
life into the things we're thinking about or the things
that are high emotion. And so if you see some
lights flicker and then you're wondering what that is, and
you automatically go to haunting the lights flickering are feeding
into an energy, and then the energy becomes more and
more defined, and then it becomes an actual thought form,

(27:32):
and that platform turns into a darkened figure. Why does
it have any shape or form because it's not real.
It's not a real, tangible person. It never had any sentience.
It's literally a projection of what you are putting out there.
It's literally projection of your fear and your unresolved trauma

(27:52):
and your anger and your sadness. No, like, my dad died,
Do you think it's my dad? I'm like no, no, no,
all it has a hat now and it has more
male characteristics. But yeah, because you're grieving your dad. Now,
that energy of you grieving your dad is forming this

(28:13):
black platform. You're literally now adding characteristics to it to
go along with the narrative that this has to be
some demonic force. And it's so interesting because people don't
want to believe they have that kind of control or
that kind of I don't know what the right word is.

(28:35):
I guess people don't want to believe that the effect
their environment like that, or that they have it has
to be something negative or it has to be some
kind of external force and I'm like, no, it's yeah,
it's you. It's you. I have only been in a

(28:56):
few houses, maybe five tempers said of where I'm like, Okay,
this is a you, this is something else. What the
fuck is this? And that is always very interesting to
me because usually in those cases, the house or the
experience is very sentient. It definitely has a personality, and

(29:17):
it definitely has some kind of like air quotes heartbeat.
I'm not saying it has an actual heartbeat, but it
feels alive, and it feels real, and it's a different
energy and it's a different vibe. And I've always wondered
what that is. I can't tell you. I don't know.
From all of my experiences, I don't know. And then
some of these things are actual sentient entity like ghosts, apparitions,

(29:42):
that kind of thing that falls into that ten percent
where you can actually communicate with the thing, and it does. Again,
it has that air quotes heartbeat, it has that life.
But for the most part, now it's the people in
the house that are creating this dynamic, creating their own haunting,

(30:03):
their own demonic force. They are the demonic force. And
again I'm not saying that's everything but in my experience
ninety percent. The other ten percent is, like I said,
it's sentient. We as humans definitely feed the battery or
feed the phenomenon. How do I know this? I have
done a lot of magic work, playing with thought forbes,

(30:24):
and I'll talk about this later in another podcast. But
I actually did an experiment with some other people and
created a ghost and actually interacted with it and that
it and had experiences with it. This fake ghost. Yeah,
I learned a lot of things about hauntings really happen,

(30:45):
and I've tested them in real time with my own investigating,
like investigating haunted hotels or haunted areas. Stephanie and I
have played with dragon lines and lay lines and how
they interact with haunted locations or how they create a
certain phenomenon. And Amina have her come on here and

(31:05):
we're going to talk about some of those experiences because
it's very interesting how it works and how it can
create a phenomenon. But wait to get back to the
deliverance of the movie. This maybe, to me was very
interesting because it did play upon that dynamic. Was it
the family, was it the unresolved trauma, or was it
really a demonic force? And what is the difference? Right Really,

(31:30):
at the end, it had to play up the demonic
force aspect of it because it's an exorcism movie. After all,
it's a paralimal movie, so we have to go there.
But I thought it was a very thought fully done movie,
and I really feel like everybody should watch it, just
from the perspective of changing the narrative about demonic forces,

(31:54):
changing the narrative about exorcisms, changing the narrative about trauma,
recognizing that humanity and our own energy forces really affect
our environment and our experiences as a whole. I would
give this movie Nato to the tent. The Deliverance is
a movie that you have to actually have to think about,

(32:17):
and it's uncomfortable. I'm gonna let you right now. To
know that this woman is beating your children is very uncomfortable.
To know the backstory of her and her mother, it's
very uncomfortable. I was like, Oh, why are we talking
about this? Why are we bringing this up? But it's
so integral into the other things that happen in the movie,
and it's so integral to human experience and how this

(32:39):
unresolved trauma turns into other things, and how it becomes
an entity all unto itself, and that's really the thing
that we need to be delivered from. We don't need
deliverance from themodic Force. We need deliverance from ourselves anyway.
That's all I'm gonna say about that. The next part
of this podcast, I am going to go into the

(33:00):
points of the actual amend case and what happened.

Speaker 6 (33:06):
It's your first look inside the house known as the
Portal to Hell, a place where demons supposedly wrought happened
with that hopeless family in horror straight out of The Exorcist.

Speaker 7 (33:19):
This man just.

Speaker 6 (33:20):
Bought the notorious house in Gary, Indiana for the bargain
based in price of thirty five thousand dollars.

Speaker 7 (33:25):
What compelled you to.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Buy this house? I have a passion for investigating claims
of paranormal.

Speaker 6 (33:32):
Zac Begins is the host of the Travel Channel's Ghost Adventures.
We spoke inside the front porch, the precise spot where
a terrorized mom claims that horse flies mysteriously swarmed in
the dead of winter, as they did in the Amityville Horror.
Then there was that mysterious figure that appeared in the
window when the house was supposed to be empty. This

(33:53):
is the other side of that window.

Speaker 8 (33:56):
There are reports that there was a residue that would
come down the blinds.

Speaker 7 (34:02):
It was horrible.

Speaker 6 (34:03):
This is the woman who lived in the House of
Horrors with her three children before zach Begans bought it.
LaToya Admans fought back tears when she told us how
they fled in terror after her daughter was raised right
off her bed. She says, the demon sounded like this.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
We've waited five months.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
It sounded like something dead.

Speaker 6 (34:23):
She says. She anointed the rooms with holy oil and
read aloud from the Bible, but the nightmare went on
and on and listened to a sound that cannot be
explained by police who looked into the mysterious goings on.
While two cops are talking in the basement, someone can
be heard saying, hey, embrace yourself for what LaToya says

(34:44):
happened to her son when she and her mom took
him to the hospital. It's right out of the movie Poltergeist.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
He walked up the wall and did the backwards flipped.

Speaker 6 (34:53):
How did everybody in the hospital react to your son
walking up the wall?

Speaker 4 (34:57):
They took off and they ran the doctor from the site.
Ward said, that's not that it's not real. That's not human.
No human can do that.

Speaker 6 (35:05):
Speaking of deep mysterious voices, you and that, those are
the chilling words. Captain Charles Austen will never forget. The
thirty six year veteran of the Gary, Indiana Police Department
had just finished investigating strange occurrences in the house and
was in his patrol car talking on the phone when
he says, something bizarre happened.

Speaker 9 (35:26):
All of a sudden, while I'm involved in this conversation,
the AMFM radio went to stack and turned up very loud,
and he said, you and that and a person on falseay,
what the hell was that?

Speaker 3 (35:40):
And I said, I don't know what was your reaction?
I was in shock.

Speaker 6 (35:45):
Exorcizo Teyumbi DC means enter Father Michael Machine, a local
priest who got permission from the Bishop of Gary, Indiana
to perform an exorcism on LaToya. Did you at one
point believe this house was the portal to hell?

Speaker 3 (36:00):
There was a portal.

Speaker 6 (36:01):
LaToya moved out of the house and now lives many
miles away. She knows her story is hard to believe.
Some people claim that you made this all up, that
this was some sort of an elaborate hoax.

Speaker 7 (36:13):
Is this a hoax?

Speaker 4 (36:14):
No, I don't feel that someone will have a reason
to make something up like that.

Speaker 6 (36:21):
Do you believe that house is possessed by demons?

Speaker 9 (36:24):
I do. I feel that it's some very bad going
on in that house.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
Now that we have gone straight into the movie and
reviewed it and the themes of that movie, how much
of that is actually true? How much of that is
based on the real pace. Let's get into it. So
I created this outline. I'm gonna put it in the
show note, so if you want to look at it yourself,

(36:51):
there will be links so you can check out all
of the videos and articles that I read to create
this wonderful outline. First thing that's different from the movie

(37:11):
is that LaToya Emmons didn't have a white mother, or
her mother was actually the same race as her. They're
both African American. So we'll just put that right out
there because that's something that people have asked, Oh, did
she really have a mixed race family? And no, she
did not. There's one thing that I was not able
to find. It's funny how the internet works, and I

(37:34):
found this with a lot of things like articles that
I have tried to find their sources, especially with conspiracy
theories or anything that has that fringe topic kind of thing.
I noticed that usually people are writing off a one
or two articles that they found in an archive somewhere,

(37:59):
and say, everybody is just going off of that those
two sources or that one source, and then you got
to figure out where that one source came from, because
nobody has looked to see if that source is actually too.
They're just regurgitating the same story over and over again,

(38:19):
and then it becomes mythology, and then it becomes part
of our lore, and then we think it's actually true.
And every time it's like that game telephone, where little
bits and pieces of it get lost, and then the
additions are always more salacious than the actual thing itself.

(38:40):
That is so prevalent with the Amityville case. And I've
talked about this before, but I'll say it again. I
actually went through YouTube. This is a few years ago.
I went through YouTube and I put in chronological order
every interview that the owners of the house did, in

(39:02):
every interview that the lawrence did. And at first it
was a very I don't know what the right word is,
but the story that made sense, and it sounded like
most hauntings out there. It was a quiet story and
there weren't a lot of like salacious details. And then
as the interviews progressed throughout the years and after the

(39:25):
book came out and the movie came out, the interviews
became bigger, the events became bigger, the trauma of it
all became bigger, and it became more I don't know,
a myth. It became something that it wasn't, and I
was like, oh my goodness. So the story that we

(39:47):
know now about the Amityville Horror is not even close
to what the actual story. And now people when they
write about it, they write about the articles that have
to do with the interviews that were in the later
part of the storytelling. If you really go back, if
you go and find the actual source of the interviews

(40:10):
and the source of what actually happened, like the original
documentation of it, it's really not that interesting of a story.
It's basically a superficial haunting that the Warrens decided to
make bigger and put a demon on it. Well, I'm
not mentioning that because there's a little bit of that here.

(40:31):
Another demon story. It is the story of it has
gotten bigger over time. Some of the things that I
could not verify that I've heard about or that I've
read about in other articles, are these things. Did she
beat her children? There is a pervasive theory that she did.

(40:57):
I've seen it in interviews with other people, not with her,
with other people. I've read it in articles that there
was some kind of physical abuse going on in the household.
The other thing that I couldn't verify was a story
that I've read a bunch of times and I've heard

(41:18):
in interviews about how this story came about, and demonic
aspect of it is said to have come from a
desperation from LaToya Emmons because she couldn't pay her rent

(41:40):
and she was like, why would I pay my rent
if my house is possessed? And then a series of
things happened to prove that theory. Now I don't know
if that's true. Again, I couldn't find any documentations. I've
watched a lot of interviews with LaToya and her mother,

(42:02):
Rosa Kemble, and I have not been able to buy
anything that has that been to it. That doesn't mean
that it didn't happen that way, and it doesn't mean
that's not something that people just don't talk about because
they don't want to be disrespectful to her. There are

(42:23):
interviews with the landlord, but they are after the fact,
thereafter he looked at the DCS paperwork, and it's after
he talked to people at the hospital, because he even
says before I didn't believe it, and then the police
were involved in it. DCS was involved with it, the

(42:44):
hospital was involved with it, and that made me believe it.
It could be that prior to being on the record,
he was saying, yeah, she didn't pay the rent, and
now the house is possessed. Sure right. I do read
people for a living, and his body language is a

(43:04):
little off in my opinion. He seems to be doing
a little bit of lip service with the interviews, like
he's putting on his best face. He never had any
issues after LaToya moved out. Nobody ever said anything about
a haunting, and he had never experienced anything there, which

(43:28):
I think is very interesting because usually in those kinds
of situations the house is really haunted, then the next
people will be like, yeah, I heard it. But with
the Amityville Horror House and with a lot of other houses,
if one family has the issue and then nobody else does.

(43:54):
It makes me think that a lot of it is
made up. It makes me think that it's the trauma
of one family. And I've already talked about that, so
I don't want to get back into it. But I
truly believe that the trauma and the energy of the
people in the house either awaken it or they don't.
If it's there, it can be dormant for a lot

(44:16):
of years if you're cool. But if you're not and
you have a lot of like bullshit going on, then yes,
it can open that Pandora's box. Did she really beat
her children? I don't know. I can't say that as
a fact. However, I can tell you that the likelihood

(44:39):
of something like that or some sort of dysfunction would
have to happen if in fact, there was actual paranoral
activity in the house. This kind of trauma would need
to be prevalent to feed the activity. And that's all

(45:02):
I'm going to say about that. All right, let's get
into this outline. So in the house we have LaToya Emmons,
her mother, Rosa Campbell, and her three children. At the
time of these events, the children were seven, nine, and twelve.
The boys were seven and nine, and the daughter was twelve,

(45:25):
so the biggest issues were with the seven year old.
Now this is prevalent too in a lot of these
haunting cases slash possession cases. It's always the youngest child
that is the perpetrator of all of the mischief. The
Enfield haunting is like that. So with these kinds of

(45:46):
cases all across the board, I've read a ton of them.
I've experienced them in my own real life. Many of
the times with possessions and hauntings like this extreme war,
it's usually a single mother who has more than one child,

(46:07):
who is working and who is struggling. The father figure
is not there, or they are there in short spurts,
and they are abusive in some way, or they are
neglectful or avoidant in some way, and it's usually one
of the younger children, usually the youngest. Sometimes it's the

(46:31):
second youngest. But it's the younger children that are looking
for some kind of attention, and they are the ones
that usually get the brunt of the possession activity, or
they are influenced or not gonna use this sparingly. But
victims amusing the bunny airs here, victims of the possession

(46:58):
or the haunting behavior or the phenomenon. And I don't
know if it's because any attention is better than no attention.
A lot of people will say, oh, they're the most innocent,
and so they're gonna be the one that the demon targeted. Okay, sure, sure,
if you want to go in that direction. However, if

(47:21):
you're gonna go the way of trauma and go the
way of needs being met, the youngest children would not
have been parentified, and they wouldn't feel responsible for the
risdom of the children like the older children do, and
they would be able to get away with more of
the shenanigans than the older children would. So I don't
know if it's that or if it's the innocence factor,

(47:44):
but I always find it very interesting that a lot
of these cases have these same kinds of family dynamics.
All right, so let's get back to the timeline. So
to recap, we have LaToya Rosa, three children, seven, nine,
and twelve, And like many of these documented paranormal cases,

(48:05):
it starts with flies. The Amneyville horror started with flies too.
A lot of this reminds me of the Amityville horror story.
I'm just gonna let you know that the idea that
she got this idea from the Amityville Horror and put
her own spin on it. It makes a lot of sense.
This happened in November of two thousand and eleven when

(48:28):
they moved in and they started living there. Both Annon's
and Campbell said that there was obnoxious monterflies and they
didn't seem to go away despite any efforts to remove them.
Then the activity escalates and it moves into hearing footsteps
climbing the basement stairs, the basement door creeping open by itself,

(48:55):
and then it escalates into even though the door is
locked at night, they still hear it opening and closing.
Here is another trope. Okay, I'm really trying to believe
this story, I am, but this is another possession, specifically

(49:17):
demonic possession trope. It's always the basement. Always, there's always
hearing footsteps in the basement. It's always doors opening and closing.
And when I was talking about the Deliverance movie and
I was going into creating your own haunting, it always

(49:40):
escalates in this way where first is something innocuous like flies,
and then it turns into footsteps, and then as we
move on, you're gonna see the pattern starting to happen here,
because then Campbell says in an interview that she hears
a dog barking in the house, even though they don't
own any Then after a while it turns into her

(50:06):
seeing a shadow of a man pacing the living room,
so she's seeing shadows now. And then one night she
gets out of bed because she sees the shadow in
the living room when she's liked it is this, And
then she sees wet bootprints on the floor in the

(50:29):
living room, so that is a different phenomenon that's different
than wet footprints. But everything else up until this point
is classic. Create your own haunting, feed your own haunting.
I'm gonna read this directly from the outline because I
don't want to mess this up because there's a lot
of parts happen in here. Okay, So this is when

(50:52):
the activity in the house went from just your regular
haunting kind of situation with all the things that I
mentioned before, and then it turns into something Air quotes demonic.
So on March tenth, twenty twelve, the paramol phenomenon escalated
around two am. LaToya Emmons and her family were still

(51:16):
up with a group of friends because of the death
of a loved one. So they were having a party
celebrating somebody's death. Emmons was in her mother's room with
her twelve year old daughter and a family friend. Her
mother was in the living room and heard Emmon's yelling Mama.
She ran into the room to see her granddaughter unconscious

(51:38):
and levitating above the bed. Everyone in the room surrounded
the girl and started praying. Eventually, the girl descended back
to the bed without recollecting what happened. According to Emmon's mother,
news of what happens right around the house, and their
friends left and refused to return to the house ever again.

(52:02):
So this is the trigger event that starts the spiral
down into the demonic possession and everything that follows. We
have from November twenty eleven to March twelfth where things
just start to pick up. I've watched the interview of

(52:23):
her talking about this, and I have so much bullshit
detector feelings. Really, So you're having a party and everybody's drinking,
and everybody's like up at two in the morning, celebrating death,
and everyone has enough sense to get around the girl

(52:46):
and pray. Are you kidding me right now? I don't
even know what to do here with this, and I'm
I'm trying with all of my might not to insert
my own opinions on this, but come on, now, come on,
let's get back to the Tummer. So after this event,
LaToya Emmons and her mother Rosa are like, this is crazy,

(53:09):
this is not normal. So they start calling churches to
find out what they need to do, and nobody is
taking them seriously, probably because they're epiture in the morning
and everybody knows they're drinking, and because it just sounds outlandish.
So finally, after calling a bunch of churches, one church

(53:30):
decides to visit the house on Carolina Street and they
do a tour and they declare their spirits in this house.
They suggest the usual and this is very standard. I
was reading this and I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, sure,
this is very much what most people suggest for hauntings.
But they suggested cleaning the house with bleached ammonia. They

(53:52):
use oil to draw crosses on the windows and doors.
They also told Emmons to put olive oil on the
hadanza feet of everyone in the house. That's like the anointing.
It's a consentration kind of being annoing and making the
children holy and then smearing the sign of a cross
on their foreheads. That's very Catholic. But again, the idea

(54:14):
is to purify, constancrate and then bless and make them
holy so that way the demons won't go after them.
Evans also reached out to some clairvoyants, which I suspect
she means psychics. Not every psychic is clairvoyant, but every
curvoyant psychic. But the article that I read that every

(54:38):
other article is based off of, which is the Indie
Star article which I will put in the show notes,
says specifically clairvoyance, so I use that verbiage anyway. Two
clairvoyants came to the house and said that the house
was inundated with o two hundred demons. Both Clevelans suggest

(55:03):
that the family move out of the house and get
away from the forces of evil, but LaToya couldn't do
that because she didn't have the funds. Now, this is
where intuitively I'm starting to believe this idea that she

(55:24):
maybe wasn't paying her rent. Again, there the idea of
being up at two in the morning to celebrate the
death of a family member leads me to believe that
there's alcohol and involved and leads me to believe that
they did have a lifestyle. Now, this is all conjecture
on my part. I'm just letting you know. It's just
my intuitive thoughts on it, based on my own experience

(55:47):
with these kinds of situations. So I'm not saying it's true.
I'm just saying that right there, tip me off. Okay,
maybe they have a more open, frivolous lifestyle, which is
completely fine, there's nothing wrong with that. If they're up
at to in the morning and there is alcohol involved,
then you know, who's to say that the levitation happened

(56:11):
the way they say it happened, especially that whole we
gathered around to prey around them because we're like the
most pious people on the planet or whatever. I don't know,
very weird. There is a part of me that believes,
and we'll get into this later, or that she really
enjoyed the attention that she got from this house, and
it leads me to believe that perhaps she didn't want

(56:34):
to leave and not paying her rent was part of
this this story coming out. Those are just again my opinions.
The red flags are shown, and also I want to
get into this part about psychic telling people that their

(56:58):
house is edundated with over two demons? What the actual buck?
That is so misleading and it is so unprofessional. I
have so many things that I want to say about this.
As a psychic professional and as a ternal investigator that

(57:19):
used to go into people's houses and try to problem
solve these situations, I would never in a million year say, oh, yeah,
there's a bunch of demons in your house. Move That
would not be all like give a portal to Hell
in your house. I would be like that, you might
have a portal. It may be away station for spirits.

(57:40):
There might be a fissure somewhere in your house that
is creating this activity. However, you can close it, you
can change the energy, you can shift it. Like, how
the fuck do they know that there's over two hundred demons?
I don't know. And what are two hundred demons doing
in ouse? Do they have nothing better to do with

(58:02):
their lives? Their supernatural lives? That is, if you know
anything about demonic entity lore at all. It's just like,
do your research. People. This is not what demons do.
They don't just go and sit around in a house
and annoy people. There's always a reason for it anyway.

(58:22):
So after she gets this information about her two hundred
demons that she has living with her, she decides not
to move and then she starts talking to other Clrooyans.
This other psychic tells her to make an altar in
the basement and gives her the directions on how to
do it. LaToya. She takes an end table and covers

(58:45):
it with a white sheet, and then on the altar
she puts a white candle, a statue of Mary, Joseph
and Jesus. She puts a Bible on the altar and
opens it to ninety one. So this is for protection.
This is your standard magic for protection. Psalm ninety one

(59:08):
is one that's used a lot, So I'm gonna read
it to you. You get an idea of what's in it,
so you know why it was put there. Just says,
whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High will
rest in the shadow of the Almlighty I will say
of the Lord, he is my refuge and my fortress,
my God in whom I trust. Surely he will save

(59:31):
you from the fowler snare and from the deadly pestilence.
He will cover you with his feathers, and under his
wings you will find refuge. His face on this will
be your shield, and rampart. You will not fear the
terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day,
nor the pestilent that stalks in the darkness, nor the
plague that destroys at midday. A thousand may fall at

(59:54):
your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it
will not come near you. You will only as with
your eyes, and you'll see the punishment of the wicked.
If you say the Lord is my refuge, and you
make the most high you're dwelling, no harm will overtake you.
No disaster will come near your tent. He will command
his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.

(01:00:18):
They will lift you up in the hands so that
you will not strike your foot against stone. You will
tread on the lion and the cobra, will trample the
great lion and the serpent. Because he loves me, said
the Lord, I will rescue him. I will protect him
from he acknowledges my name, he will call on. Yeah,
it's pretty self explanatory as to why that is being

(01:00:40):
opened up on the table. It's basically we're using God,
and we're using his protection to keep us safe from
two hundred Jamons in the basement. Okay, with the same
psychic that calls her to put the altar. Ammends and

(01:01:01):
her mother go through the house burning stage and sulfur,
and then the psychics followed them, reading Psalms ninety one,
and they started upstairs and cleansed the house first because
that's the dwelling, and then they went downstairs in the basement.
According to Ammonds, the smoke was so thick that they

(01:01:24):
had a hard time breathing, and then Ammons drew across
in the smoke. After the cleansing of the house, everything
went quiet for three days. Then it got worse. The
demonic presence seemed to focus on the children. Now. Ammons
said that her kid's eyes started to bulge, and they

(01:01:47):
donned evil smiles and when they spoke, their voice deepened.
Not to be a broken record, but this is another
demonic trope. You will find this in most cases with children.
This is like X book. Does that make it true

(01:02:09):
because here's what to look for if you're demonically possessed?
Or is this something where she knows about this stuff
because her and her mother are very spiritual and religious,
and they're saying these things are happening. I don't know,
but a lot of these things are just so convenient.

(01:02:30):
And if you read any books, or if you look
through anything on the internet, these are the things that
you're going to see time and time again. Ammon's mother,
Rosa Campbell, said the demono forces didn't mess with her
because she was born with protection from evil and she
had a guardian that protected her. However, Ammons was afflicted
a lot. She was light headed and warm all the time.

(01:02:54):
Her body would convulse and shake, and she felt out
of control. I know I'm stopping and starting a lot here,
but hear me out. When I read this, I was like, Okay,
here's the problem. It's the mom. Why would only the
mother in this household have protection from evil and have

(01:03:18):
a guardian. Why wouldn't the family be protected? Why wouldn't
the guardians that the mother has text her loved ones.
That's usually how it works in ancestral situations where somebody
in the family is being protected, you can ask your guardians,

(01:03:40):
and you can ask your protectors to protect the whole family.
Why is this born protection from evil not being carried
over into the other people in the household. This felt
so wrong to me. If I was a parent investigator

(01:04:01):
slash psychic coming into the household, the first thing that
I would ask is, why are you not giving that
protection to the family. Why are you not using that
protection to safeguard the whole house? And the other situation

(01:04:25):
that leads me to believe that she is the actual
problem in this household is that she is the one
that started seeing the shadow people in the house or
the shadow man. She is the one that's starting to
see the projections happen. And you see, the person that

(01:04:46):
starts to see the projections happening is the person that
is creating the projection. And also, why is LaToya Amman
the one that is getting the the physical col manifestations
of this demonic possession. Her children are being affected by

(01:05:07):
the possession, but she is actually getting the physical symptoms.
And that speaks a lot to me because I'm like, Okay,
what if she is picking up on her mother and
that is why she's having the physical manifestations because she's
actually trying to reject the energy. So she's recognizing that

(01:05:30):
something is off, and she's recognizing the air quotes evil
and it's not really a demon, it's actually her mother.
From a lot of articles and a lot of interviews,
I read her mother is very religious, spiritual, Jesus spiritual,
very much about the forces of good and evil. But

(01:05:53):
I would dare to say this is just my opinion.
That's saying that you are the only one in the
house is protected from evil and that you've had a
guardian from birth. It's a very narcissistic statement considering what
is going on in the house anyway. The kids are

(01:06:16):
getting affected more and this is where the seven year
old comes in. He becomes more air quotes possessed than
other people in the house, and he's the one that
is affected more. And we have this trope of the
imaginary child that he is talking to. This is a
thing that we see in movies all of the time,
and this is another end filled haunting thing where oh yes,

(01:06:40):
only the children or one child actually can talk to
the imaginary force or the imaginary being. Now, they're supposed
to be two hundred demons in this house, but the
child is only speaking to one of them, which again
there is some Yeah, why is only one of them

(01:07:01):
talking to the child when there's two hundred there and
nobody else is experiencing the other one hundred and ninety nine. Okay,
we'll just go with it anyway. The seven year old
starts to sit in a closet and he's talking to
this imaginary boy. The imaginary boy would talk about things
that like just really weird, what it felt like to
be killed and what it felt like to die. So

(01:07:23):
this starts happening, and he's still talking to this imaginary boy.
This person, maybe it's a demon, maybe it's something else.
I don't know. I didn't find any information about anybody
else dying in the house. I looked, but there's no
information about what happened prior in the Carolina house. So

(01:07:48):
as he's talking to this boy, as he's going through
these things, it starts to become more intense and more escalated.
And then Rosa AMA's mother, there was an incident that
happened where the seven year old boy was violently thrown
from the bathroom. He was okay, he didn't have to

(01:08:09):
go to the hospital or anything, but it was a
very shocking situation. And then shortly after that, Almand's daughter,
the oldest, the twelve year old, was hit so hard
by a headboard, she had to be taken to the
hospital to get stitches. She told mental health professionals she

(01:08:30):
would sometimes feel as if she were being held down
in choke to the point where she couldn't speak or move,
and during those incidences, she would also hear voices that
told her she would never see her family again and
she would die within twenty minutes. Very specific. This idea
of dying or being killed, or just basically the kids

(01:08:56):
feeling unsafe is happening here. This feeling of I could
diet any minute, I could be gone. This idea that
the children don't feel like they exist or that they
are worthy is coming up.

Speaker 4 (01:09:14):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
If we take this out of the context of a
possession and kids being thrown and their heads being hit
against headboards, I don't know how she's contributing the headboard
situation with a demonic presence, because like kids when they
play are pretty rowdy, and getting hit by a headboard,

(01:09:36):
especially with kids jumping out of bed, is pretty common.
So I don't know how we're contributing that to a
situation like this where there's supposedly a haunting and the
hole the kid getting thrown out of the bathroom trying

(01:09:56):
to not be this person, but it sounds a lot
like an abusive household, a very dysfunctional abuse of hoousehold.
I don't know if it's a demonic force or if
it's an actual human being, because I really believe that
the human spirit is way more evil. I can turn
way more evil than an actual demon could. I think
we got them beat by a lot. I think it's

(01:10:18):
just easier to say, oh, yeah, the demonic force maybe
do it, or the demonic force did it, or the
evil of the house did it. Anyway. After the situation
with the stitches and some other situations that were not
spelled out, LaToya says that sometimes the phenomenon in the

(01:10:39):
house was about that they spent nights in hotels. It
was just getting to be too much. She was desperate
to find a way to get rid of the activity
and be on some good common crown. So on April
nineteenth of twenty twelve, she goes to her family physician.
His name is doctor Jeffrey Kawu. I totally ruined that name.

(01:11:06):
I apologize. There are interviews with him, but it's o
nye uk w u. Yeah, you try to say that anyway.
Emens tells him what's going on and what's happening with
the kids, And he's writing in his medical notes these

(01:11:27):
words like these are actually quotes, quote delusions of ghosts
in all quote hallucinations. Quote history of a ghost at home.
Quote more delusions. He clearly does not believe at all,
not even a little bit. So he's no help whatsoever.

(01:11:49):
It just girls crazy. From this point forward, a lot
of this information is in the DCS report and a
lot of other air quotes official report. So this is
what made this case so believable, is because now we
have official representatives seeing this behavior and witnessing this behavior

(01:12:16):
and experiencing this behavior on their own and having to
write it down in a report. And the Indie Star
reporter who originally did this story in twenty fourteen, again,
I'll put all the information in the show notes. You

(01:12:38):
can look on the link yourself. That person was able
to look through all of these reports and write up
a chronological timeline of the situation. So you're gonna hear
me say according to the DCS or according to this report.

(01:12:59):
That's because this was in the article, and this is
what was written down. And I went and I listened
to a lot of interviews and watched a lot of
interviews from these people involved, and then added things into
more cohobious notes so that we have a really blushed

(01:13:22):
out timeline of what happens. Because honestly, you think the
last stuff was batshit crazy, but it gets fucking weirder
and I'm not sure what to think, so let's just
go through it anyway. Doctor Jeffrey, I'm gonna call him
that because I can't say his last name. Doctor Jeffrey

(01:13:45):
believes that this woman is basically full of shit. Somewhere
in this the DCS gets involved. And it's not real
clear how this happened, but from doctor Jeffrey in the
hospital to somewhere in the either the same day or

(01:14:06):
like the next day, the DCS gets involved because someone
in the hospital calls them. This is according to what
those people said, the medical staff basically said, and this
is also what Ammends said about what happened. According to

(01:14:26):
Ahmand's mom, Rosa, she says, during the doctor visit, the
nine year old, who was a boy, cursed out the
doctor in a deep demonic voice, and then, according to
the medical staff, the youngest boy was air quotes lifted

(01:14:49):
and thrown into the wall with nobody touching him end quote.
The boy then passed out, and then and her mother
held the boy in their arms. So Campbell's on one
side and Almonds on the other, and they hold him

(01:15:12):
and pray over him until someone calls nine one one,
and then the police and emergency personnel take both boys
to the Methodist Hospital campus in Gary, Indiana. And I
think this is where DCS kids involved at the new hospital.
Ammonds and her mother go there and Almonds wants to

(01:15:34):
annoint her son's forehead with olive oil and they're like, Nope,
you can't do that, not in the hospital. And she said,
quote I couldn't talk to them, so I talked to
God end quote. So the reason why they were sent
to the other hospital is because both kids basically passed

(01:15:58):
out after these two situations happened. Once the kids did
wake up, the nine year old was fine, he was like,
what what happened? But the youngest boy, the seven year old,
thrashed around and convulsed and according to the reports, it
took five men to hold him down. Valerie Washington, who's

(01:16:19):
a DCS case manager, is called in to investigate amends
or child loose and neglect. The medical staff suggested that
LaToya Emmons could have a mental illness and that her
children were performing for her and she was encouraging their
odd behavior. Valerie Washington comes in and she's the one

(01:16:41):
that's gonna handle the investigation from here on out, and
so she wants to get the children examined at the hospital,
and then she decides to have everybody evaluated to see
if there is any kind of mental illness. And according
to what Washington says and reports, the children were free

(01:17:05):
of marks and bruises, and Emmons was determined to be
of sound mind. So that's interesting to me that this
is in the report because from this point backward, there
sure does seem to be a lot of the kids

(01:17:26):
like running into things and being thrown around. For them
not to have any kind of bruising, to me is
a little weird. And not that I'm questioning the validity
of Washington, but she does start to believe the phenomenon,
and she starts to believe in the haunting. I'm wondering

(01:17:48):
if there is a bias here ticket for what you will. Anyway,
Washington starts to interview all three of the kids at
the hospital, and during this time, the seven year old
starts growling and showing teeth, his eyes rolled back into
his head, and he lunges at his older brother, the

(01:18:10):
nine year old, and he locks his hands around his
brother's neck and won't let go, and the adults in
the room, like everybody has to like pry him off
of his brother. And later in the evening Washington, Rosa Campbell,
the grandmother and a registered nurse brought the two boys

(01:18:31):
into an exam room for an official interview, and they stay.
The seven year old boy starts to growl again and
he says in a very deep voice to his brother,
it's time to die. I will kill you. Then, while
this is happening, the nine year old boy starts to

(01:18:52):
headbut Rosa his grandmother. She immediately grabs him and then
starts to pray over him. This has got to be
quite the scene at the hospital. Even though you might
not know about this case, this is the part of
the story that gets retold over and over again. According

(01:19:15):
to the account in the dc AS report and also
statements from the registered nurse in the room, the nine
year old boy had a quote weird grin on his
face and then walked backward up the wall to this ceiling.

(01:19:39):
He flipped over his grandmother and then landed on his feet,
never letting go of her hand. This is the statement
from the registered nurse in the room. Quote he walked
up the wall, flipped over and stood there. There's no
way he could have done that. End quote. The police

(01:20:03):
were asked to come in after this because everyone's what
the hell is going on? This was like the weirdest
thing they'd ever seen. And the police asked Washington, the
DCS case manager, if the boy had run up the
wall or if he had done acrobats, and she says
air quotes, he was lighting backward on the floor, wall

(01:20:27):
and ceiling end quote. Washington also told the police that
she was very scared of what happened and that the
nurse ran out of the room because he couldn't deal
with it. She later told a doctor what happened. He
didn't believe her. The doctor was so skeptical he went
into the room and asked the nine year old boy
to walk up the wall again, and he said he
had no memory of what happened, and he had no

(01:20:48):
idea how he did it, and he couldn't do it again.
The registered nurse who ran out of the room. He
told police that the boy's action had air quotes some
kind of demonic spirit to it end quote, but it
also could be the result of mental illness. Washington said

(01:21:10):
in the police support that there could be an air
quotes's equal influence end quote affecting the family. So she's
buying right into it. And that's why I'm questioning the
report that they were no braises or anything. Not that
she wouldn't lie about that. It just seems really weird.
She doesn't find anything wrong with the kids, and she

(01:21:31):
doesn't find anything wrong with Emmons. What I find interesting
is that they never investigated the grandmother for anything. They
never did any kind of mental analysis on her. She
was not screened, and I'm wondering if she was screened,
if this would be a completely different story, in a

(01:21:54):
completely different situation. But that's just my opinion. So LaToya
Emmon stays in law hospital with her youngest son while
her mother takes the other two kids to relatives in Gary, Indiana.
The next day is the seven year old's birthday. He
turns eight. Rosa comes back with the kids and they

(01:22:18):
celebrate the boys' birthday with a miniature cake, and then
after the celebration, DCS decides to take emergency custody of
all three of the children. She says in the report
that air quotes all the children were experiencing spiritual and
emotional distress end quote. So it's a bittersweet thing where

(01:22:40):
it's his birthday, but then he's taken away. Now we
move into April twelfth, two thousand. Revan Michael mag I
n ot. I'm gonna call him rev and Michael from
this point for because I don't want to like get
his name anymore wrong. Anyway, he receives a phone call
from the hospital Champlain and he's asked to perform an
x is on Ammon's nine year old boy. Reverend Michael

(01:23:04):
says that even though he's been a priest at Saint
Stephen Martyr, Parrish and Maryville for over ten years, so
he's never done any kind of exorcism, but he's open
to the case, and so he decides to meet the
family and he decides to interview them to see what's
really going on. Reverend Michael said in interviews that the
first step in any of these cases is trying to

(01:23:27):
rule out like any normal causes and to make sure
that it's truly something demonic, or it's a haunting, or
it's something that's paranormal. So he's skeptical at first. The
Wren visits Emmons and Kempbell at the Carolina House, sends
the children because they're in custody, but he meets them

(01:23:48):
at the house on April twenty seconds, twenty twelve, so
few weeks later, he interviews both the women for four
hours about what is going on in the house and
what has been experienced. And during that conversation, Rosa Campbell
interrupts the interview to let everyone know the bathroom lights
are flickering on and off, and so the rev goes
to investigate the phenomena. And then every time he went

(01:24:10):
to the bathroom, it stopped, and then he would go
back talk to the ladies, and then it would start
up again, and then he would walk over to it
and it would stop again. And he actually said in
an interview it must have been scared of me. And
I was like, okay, that's what you got from that
whole situation. I don't know why.

Speaker 7 (01:24:27):
Anyone didn't do any kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:24:32):
Problem solving around this, because again it's the mother Rosa
that is seeing the lights flickering on and off, and
lights flickering on and off can be a form of telekinesis,
so it's not always paranormal. We tend to affect our

(01:24:53):
environment more than we know we do, or the more
that we think we do. And who's to say that again,
Rosa is not creating this phenomenon through sheer will or
because she wants it to be true. I just feel
like there's a whole lot of suspension, of disbelief and

(01:25:16):
very little logical thinking in this whole situation. People are
seeing things and they're going straight to demons at oh,
actually problem solving it. I know I sound really skeptical
right now, but I have experienced like crazy things. I
have experienced voices. I've experienced lights turning on off. I've

(01:25:40):
experienced doors opening and closed, and I have experienced someone
being in a door. I've experienced someone being in a
bathroom that the door doesn't lock and we can't open
the door, and the other person on the side is
literally turning the door and trying to open it, and
Fanny keen and we're like, let go of the door,
let go of the door. They let go of the
door and the door will still open. I've experienced all

(01:26:02):
kinds of different things. I've literally been almost pushed off
a balcony. I've been tripped, I have been pushed downstairs.
I've had houses shaped while I was standing in them
when a certain name or situation was talked about. I've

(01:26:25):
had splash lights thrown at me from across the room
trying to do a cleansing. So I have seen it all.
I have experienced most and even in those situations, I'm like, Okay,
let's look at this logic, like, let's try to figure
out what's going on. Is this us Is it an
intelligent haunting? Is it a demonophores is it some kind

(01:26:47):
of group telekinesis is it the energy in the room expanding?
What is going on here? There was plenty of things
that you go through before you go straight too. Yeah,
it's a demon. It's probably scared of me. I see

(01:27:08):
a lot of faulty in this situation, and based on
my experiences, I would have done it differently. I am
not saying that I wouldn't have come to the same
conclusion because I might have. Like I said before, there
have been like ten percent of the cases where I'm like,
I have no idea what's going on here? You got me,
You got me. It's probably something on the paranormal spectrum

(01:27:30):
that I have no idea what to do with. However,
nine percent of cases, especially cases like this, where there's trauma,
where there's children, there is a leged abuse. Yeah, it's
usually telekinesis. It's using someone creating their own haunting. It's
usually the energy of the people in the house that
are making these things happen. And if I were to

(01:27:52):
see this as a case study and just look at
it through the lens of my experience, this is where
I go with it. So anyway, let's get back to
this four hour interview with the two women and the rev.
So the lights are flickering on and off. He goes
and he looks at it. It stops, and then when

(01:28:14):
he goes to sit down, it starts again, and he said,
it must be scared of me. Later in the interview,
the Venetian blind starts to swing without an air current,
and the women show him the wet footprints in the
living room. During this time, Emmonds complains of a headache.

(01:28:39):
She's starting to get those physical sensations again. Around this
activity that is happening, the Reverend Michael puts a crucifix
on her head and when he does that, she starts
to convulse. After the interview and after all this, reverend
surmises that the family is being afflicted by a demonic
possession or demonic forces. But he also some things there's

(01:29:01):
a ghost in the house, and so it's like a
combination of everything. And so while he was there, he
went into every room when he blesses the house with
holy water while reading from the Bible, and he also
tells the woman that they should leave the house, and
this time they believe him and they decide to move
in temporarily with a relative. So this has an interesting

(01:29:24):
twist on this whole situation. Washington and the two women
Emmon's and Campbell go to the house to see the
condition of the home. I think it's a home check,
but it gets weird because they take a police officer

(01:29:46):
from Lake County and then they take two other police
officers that are from Gary and from Hammon who asked
to join the walk though because of air quotes profession curiosity,
so it's almost like they're training it like a haunted
house or some kind of I don't know, like some

(01:30:14):
sort of event instead of an actual walkthrough. I don't
know how this is considered professional, but okay, we'll just
go with it anyway. During this walkthrough, LaToya doesn't want
to go inside the house. Her mother, of course, accompanies

(01:30:36):
them into the home. The layout of the house is
this has consisted of three bedrooms, a living room, an
open style kitchen, and a bathroom. All of the rooms
have wooden floors. There is a door in the kitchen
that leads to the basement. The basement has concrete floors
now directly under the stairs. The concrete was broken up

(01:30:58):
and it had a dirt floor. So there's a section
that had a dirt floor. And the reason why I'm
telling you all of this is because it's going to
come into play later. According to the police report, the
altar was still in place and there were rings of
salt that it were around the basement and around the
basement walls. And this was to quote dissuade the demon's

(01:31:20):
end quote. Rosa told the police that the demons seemed
to come from underneath the stairs, that patch of ground
that was broken up, that if there was a dirt
right there in that section. So during the walkthrough there
is audio being recorded, I guess for the police report,

(01:31:44):
and in a piece of the audio in the basement,
there is a very loud voice that says, hey, So
it's an EVP that they caught. Right before that happened.
Their flashlights drained even though they were fresh batteries, and

(01:32:04):
there was a lot of like small little things that
happen like that, where the usual stuff where things start
to malfunction and then the EVP happens. Out of everything
that I have read about this case, this is the
only thing that I will actually say sound like a

(01:32:28):
legitimate haunting. This is it just this one little section
right here, this EVP. This is congruent with other situations
and experiences that I've had and that I have read about,
and that other people have told me about. I will
go ahead and play the clip of the EVP right here.

(01:32:49):
It's about a minute and a half long. You'll hear
of the hey. It's very apparent. Also, I'll go ahead
and put this in the show notes video. It's not
an audio, but you click on it. It's some of
the pictures of the house and then the e v P.

Speaker 8 (01:33:08):
Let's see if forget anything. Yeah, I don't. Uh, I'm
going to ask yeah, huh. But they said, you know,
they would hear stuff in the basement.

Speaker 9 (01:33:24):
The town back here.

Speaker 10 (01:33:28):
Oh wow, okay, somebody was running towns back then too,

(01:33:49):
hmm were home.

Speaker 8 (01:33:57):
Oh they're burning stuff all over the place. That's I'm
surprised the fire here. I'm surprised the fire here.

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
So yeah, the the hay is really clear. I was like, okay,
that's a that's a good EVP. During the walk through,
the police take pictures of the home and in the
basement they have photos of a cloudy white image that
shows up. Then the pictures were enlarge and they see

(01:34:47):
a phase and then there's a second green image of
a female that was discovered in the same picture. And
I'm like, okay, sure. When I had an active investigation team,
I got these pictures all the time of these cloudy figures.
I'm using air quotes here, might your bunnies are in
full effect? Here cloudy figures, misty figures, And like, look,

(01:35:09):
do you see the image? Do you see the thing?
Do you see the face? Do you see the figure?
And I'm like, no, I don't. Or in a basement,
there's a lot of condensation. It could just be air.
It could be moisture, it could be dust, it could
be a lot of things, especially if you're using a flash.
There's a lot that's going on now. There is a

(01:35:30):
piece of the concrete that is broken up and there
is dirt there. So the likelihood of dirt being in
the air causing some kind of fog, especially with the
moisture in a basement, Yeah, that is that's very likely.
There's also this other picture that was taken during this

(01:35:53):
time with an iPhone that has a strange shadow in
it in the front of the house. You see it
all the time. It's the picture that everybody uses the
thumbnail on YouTube, and on the right hand side there
is a figure looking out the window at the house.
I'll put it in the show notes. It's an interesting picture.

(01:36:14):
That one I can't say anything about. I can't debunk it.
I don't know what the situation is with that one.
And yeah, again these two incidences though with the EVP
the battery is draining and this figure. This is all

(01:36:37):
typical hauntings. This is not anything demonic, This is not
any tay that's even an entity. And this all seems
like a possible intelligent haunting. But it might not be EVPs,

(01:36:59):
even though it said, hey, it doesn't mean anything. That
could be old energy. It could be somebody trying to communicate,
but that doesn't even mean that it's even in the house.
It could be a ghost or an apparition or a
spirit somewhere in the neighborhood that just happens to notice
that people are paying attention. Those kinds of things are

(01:37:20):
really hard to substantiate unless you know the history of
the house and you have multiple people having the same
experience in the house. We don't have that data, or
I don't have that data. I don't think anybody else
does either, based on the records that I could not find,

(01:37:40):
let's put it that way, and I do some pretty
thorough research. I'm pretty good at finding stuff about houses,
and I couldn't find anything any backstory on this house.
So we don't have the data to support that it
could be an intelligent haunting. All I have is the

(01:38:00):
little bit of circumstantial evidence without any context. The picture
is interesting, the EVP is interesting, but again, those are
also things that are in normal, typical hauntings that are
not scary, and they're not demonic and they're not hurting

(01:38:22):
people or anything. They're usually things that can be managed through,
Like all the things that they did. Staging and putting
ammonia in the house and sulfur and dragon's blood and
copal and creating dominance in the house is what I
call it, which is like this is my house. I

(01:38:44):
am the dominant energy in the house, everything house house. Believe,
when you do those kinds of things, it does tend
to tamper down the activity, not paying attention to it,
not feeding into it, not being dramatic about it, to
dampen down the energy. Calling it a demonic force and

(01:39:06):
saying these the otre demons in the house and then
creating a lot of fear is going to make the
haunting worse, especially over time. Then you become the haunting.
It's the whole thing about You are the observer, but
then you become part of the phenomenon. So you're no
longer the deserver. Now you're mirroring. And as you're mirroring,

(01:39:27):
you are now the phenomenon and the observer at the
same time, and so you create a feedback loop. Anyway,
the policeman who took the picture of the iPhone and
got the EVP, he said a lot of weird things
happen after he left the house. The radio in his
carmel function. On the way home, he had troubles in

(01:39:47):
his garage. The power to the door in his garage
refused to open, so there was some weird issue with that.
The seat in his car started to move forward and
backward on its own. He had to have the car
checked out by the dealership and the mechanics said that
the seat had been broken out of nowhere, and he
said the distraction of it could have caused an accident.

(01:40:10):
Through these weird experiences that happened, Jim the police officers
said on the record that he thought that something parallel
was going on the Carolina straight home. This reminds me
of another hauntings called the San Pedroal Haunting. It's the
haunting of Jackie Hernandez. I'll put links to that in
the show notes for you. But there was a lot

(01:40:30):
of the same kind of things happening in this case
that happened in that case. There's actually a few things
that I'm going to talk about with the sand pager hunting,
but it's the same kind of thing. A woman in
a house with children, demon's ghosts, etc. There is a
movie about it that's actually a documentary. Back to the timeline.

(01:40:53):
So on April twelfth, twenty twelve, this is two weeks
before they go through the walk through, DCS petitioned have
a temporary wardship of the three children the lake. You
and all Court granted the request. DCS had found Emmons
negligent of the children's education by routinely not bringing them

(01:41:14):
to school. The first complain of that had been in
two thousand and nine. For three years the kids did
not get to school. This is way before all of
the situation with the possession and the haunting in the house,

(01:41:35):
so there had already been issues two and a half years,
three years prior to this situation, where again there is
this idea of negligence. There's this idea that maybe there's
other issues happening in the house that have nothing to
do with spirituality. But Ammonds defended herself by saying, quote
the spirits would make them sick or they would be

(01:41:58):
up all night without sleep end quote. This goes back
to one of the first incidents about the little girl
that's being levitated over the bed. She's twelve years old.
They're having a party for the death of a loved one,
but the kids are up at two in the morning.
Why are the kids up at two in the morning.
That doesn't make any sense to me, even if there

(01:42:24):
were people over, and even it's it was a party
at some point, why didn't she put the kids to bed? Again,
there are little things in the story that are problematic
for me, but they do show just a leniency with

(01:42:44):
the kids that probably goes beyond spirits making them sick.
So the kids were placed in separate situations. The youngest
son that won, the seven year old that was having
the most problem with the air quotes to want to possession.
He went to Christian Haven in Wheatfield, Indiana for a

(01:43:05):
psychiatric evaluation. The other two children were placed in Saint
Joseph's Karmelite home in East Chicago. It's funny though, because
the one, the nine year old, was the one that
climbed up the wall, but he was not taken for evaluation,
just the seven year old was, So I wonder how
they made that call. The seven year old was evaluated

(01:43:30):
by a couple of clinical psychologists, one of them on record.
Her name is Stacy Wright. She said the boy acted
possessed when he didn't want to answer a question or
when he felt challenged. He seemed coherent except when it
came to demons. She stated that he became air quotes's bizarre, fragmented,

(01:43:54):
and illogical end quote, and his account of events changed
any time he retold them, so he never had a
coherent narrative about anything. Right, do not believe that the
boy had a psychotic disorder, she put in her evaluation quote.
This appears to be an unfortunate and sad case of

(01:44:15):
a child who has been induced into a delusional system,
perpetuated by his mother, and potentially reinforced end quote by
other relatives. We're talking about the grandmother Rosa. Another clinical psychologist,

(01:44:37):
Joel Schwartz, who's on record, evaluated the daughter, the twelve
year old daughter. He had a similar diagnosis for her,
he stated in his evaluation quote. There also appears to
be a need to assess the extent to which Ammon's
daughter may have been unduly influenced by her mother's concerns

(01:44:59):
that the family would exposed to paranormal experiences end quote.
There is some grooming and influencing happening here. Ammons was
also evaluated by more than one psychologist. They all said
that she was guarded, but didn't exhibit symptoms of any
sort of like psychosis or thought disorder. One of the

(01:45:20):
psychologists suggested that Emmons be evaluated to quote determine whether
her religiosity may be masking underlying delusional ideations or perceptual
disturbances end quote. Despite what the psychologists and the evaluations
were saying, Ammons and her three children kept insisting they

(01:45:42):
were possessed by demonic influence. That makes perfect sense to me,
because why not keep the narrative. The DCS caseworker Washington
put together a plan for Ammins and her family, and
there were certain stipulations that were included, and one of
them was, quote do not discuss demons and being possessed

(01:46:05):
and take responsibility for your actions end quote. And she
also suggested that quote she uses alternate forms of discipline
not directly related to religion and demonic possession end quote.
Examples normal things that you ask of children. So there

(01:46:26):
were no guidelines or boundaries with these kids. They just
did whatever they wanted. Evans also had to find a
job and reload because the paraorl activity at the Caroline
Street residence was too much and it exasperbated the ideation
of the demon possession. She was allowed to work on
her parenting skills during supervised visits with her kids, so

(01:46:49):
they're monitoring her basically. So despite all of this happening,
the investigations at the Caroline Street house were still happening.
On May to two, twenty twelve, the two women and
Officer Austin went back to the house. He was the
one that had all of the issues and the one

(01:47:10):
that took the picture. He had the garage that didn't
work and the car that broke the seat did. They
were joined by the reverend, two police offers from Lake County,
and police dog and a DCS case manager. Not wasn't Washington.
She didn't want to go back. She was like, nope,

(01:47:31):
this was a new case manager. Her name was Samantha.
It's ilic so Ilik. I'm gonuld call her case manager
Samantha from this point forward. Again, I'm trouble with the names.
The police dog chemist the house and did not react anything.
When everybody went down with the basement DCS, Samantha saw
a strange liquid dripping from the walls. She said it

(01:47:53):
felt slippery and sticky between her fingers. Now, this is
an interesting thing because the only other time I have
heard of this phenomenon is the San Pedro case that
I told you about earlier, the haunting of Jackie Hernandez
and her kids. This is another case, and I'll do

(01:48:17):
another podcast on this. I'll just give you the cliff
notes on this, since I can't mentioning it. She was
a single mother of two. She was barely making ends meet.
This was in nineteen eighty nine. She worked long hours.
She had two boys, and this neighbor named Susan Castaneda,
she is the one that took care of her kids.

(01:48:37):
She started to see figures in the boy's bedroom. She
was hearing strange noises, she was seeing apparitions. She called
Dr Barry Taff, who made a movie about it. You
can find the movie. It used to be on YouTube.
If I can find it again, I will go ahead
and put it in the show notes. But it's really

(01:48:58):
easy to find. It's called the San Pedro Haunting. Very
Chaff got involved. They did this full on investigation of
the home. A lot of weird shit happened. There was
a weird smell in the air at that house and
one of the weird things that kept happening, and it's

(01:49:22):
actually on video. During one of the tapings, they have
pictures and you can actually see it on video. There
is this weird liquid that was oozing from the cupboards
and it had some weird components to it. They had

(01:49:42):
it analyzed and they said that it had a heavy
iodine and copper content, which is the same as blood
plasma to be exact, but there are a lot of
correlations with kids and the liquid. The rev went downstairs

(01:50:06):
and he was looking for pentagrams or cursed objects in
the dirt floor where the concrete had been broken up
so underneath those stairs. He told the police that a
pentagram would indicate the presence of a demon or a
possible portal to Hell. He also suggested that there might
be a body buried underneath the stairs and that would

(01:50:27):
explain the ghost activity. I'm just gonna jump in here
and say that pentagrams do not equal demonic possession. Pentagrams
are not used for that. They represent earth, air, fire, water,
and spirit. They are a symbol for the complete tools

(01:50:48):
that you use in order to manifest in magic. It
does not have this connotation of demons. You would not
use a pentagram for demonic work. You would use other things.
And if you know anything about demon magic, he actually

(01:51:13):
studied it. There is actually a form of magic that
works with demons. Then you would know that there are
other symbols and other sigils and other planetary symbols that
work much better for those kinds of things. A pentagram
isn't gonna do it, and a pentagram is innocuous at

(01:51:36):
this point. It shows how very little the reverend knew
about actual magic. And I'm pretty sure he was going
off of studies through the lens of Christianity, or maybe
even Catholicism, which I know is a form of Christianity. However,

(01:51:56):
they're different. This too feels a little like Satanic panic.
You can go back. I'll put him in the show utes,
but you can go back to some of my other
podcasts about satanic panic and this idea of pentagrams, dirt floors,
portals to hell, demonic possession, it's all there. I don't

(01:52:20):
know too much about Reverend Michael. I don't think he's
a bad person. I have nothing bad to say about him.
I'm just saying that in this instance, he is ill informed,
and I bet you a million dollars that he probably
studied some of the information that came out of the

(01:52:40):
satanic panic phenomenon. And I will also put in the
show notes a handbook that I found from the time
period that talks about what is and what is not demonic.
And it's so out there, surprised that this shit is

(01:53:01):
out there, but at the same time, it's just it's
not correct. Anyway. We're in the basement again. They're looking
down underneath the stairs in this area where the concrete
is broken up and there's a dirt floor for the
portal to Hell apparently, and we're looking for a body.

(01:53:23):
Police officer dug three foot by four foot hole under
the stairs to see if there was anything there. They
found some like weird shit, but nothing that was pair
or normal. He unearthed a pink press and nail, a
white pair of women's underwear, political shirt pin the lid

(01:53:44):
to a small cooking bot, socks with the bottoms cut off,
candy wrappers, and a metal a piece that looked like
it came from a drapery cord something you tie off
with curtains those little pieces of metal that are on them.
Since there was nothing significant that was found. They just

(01:54:05):
covered the whole up and then the Reverend Michael blessed
the spot with salt and then sprinkled more salt throughout
the basement. That part is correct. That's some good magic.
I give him props for that. Later after they went
up from the basement, there in the living room area,
the DCS manager Samantha, who came instead of Washington. She

(01:54:28):
says her left pinky started to tingle, and at Whiten,
she said it looked like it had become broken. A
few minutes later, she felt like she couldn't breathe, and
she started to feel like she was having a panic attack.
She de started to go outside and wait with the
rest of the group. Around that same time, the priest
was questioning Ammons about things, and she started to get
a headache and shoulder pain, and she decided to wait outside.

(01:54:51):
Around nightfall, Officer Austin.

Speaker 7 (01:54:54):
The one that had been there before. He said that he.

Speaker 3 (01:54:55):
Didn't want to be in the house anymore. He had
been investigated Berkeley's rapes and murders and it did not
compare to the feeling of that house. After dark, he left.
The two officers that came with him. They stayed and
they canvassed the house.

Speaker 7 (01:55:13):
In one of.

Speaker 3 (01:55:14):
The rooms, they saw that oil like substance again on
the Venetian blinds, and they are the only people that
actually tried to do something logical or problems of it.

Speaker 7 (01:55:25):
And what they did was is they wiped off.

Speaker 3 (01:55:27):
The substance with a paper towel and then they sequested
the room for twenty five minutes. They stood at the
door to make sure no one could go in and
out to see what would happen.

Speaker 7 (01:55:37):
And when they opened the room.

Speaker 3 (01:55:38):
Again, the oil like substance was back on the blinds.
The reverend said that the weird liquid was a manifestation
of a paranormal or demonic entity. It's interesting because again,
the only other time I've seen this liquid is in
the San Paederal Haunting. But again, these cases are so similar,
and both cases have to do with struggling single moms

(01:56:03):
who are working too much and they have children and
they're they're doing the best they can. I'm not judging
by any stretch of the imagination. However, they do seem
to have the same affliction happening to them, and it
makes me curious to wonder does the Almonds family especially

(01:56:27):
the two women who are very religious and very into
this kind of stuff. Do they know about the San
Pedro haunting. That's something that I would have asked them,
is have you heard of the San pedroal haunting? Do
you know about Jackie Hernandez? Because are these two cases
very similar because it's the same kind of.

Speaker 7 (01:56:47):
Activity, or are we mimicking.

Speaker 3 (01:56:52):
Other cases like the Amityville Horror House because we know
about them because we think that's what activity is supposed
to look like. That is a question that should have
been asked, but nobody wants to because I get the
sense that.

Speaker 7 (01:57:09):
Everybody just wants to believe. Nobody wants to take.

Speaker 3 (01:57:14):
The They don't want to take the paranormal out of
it for whatever reason, and I'm still not sure why.
So after this investigation, the Reverend Michael was, without a
doubt ready to do an exorcism on Ammons, not on

(01:57:34):
the house, strangely enough, just on Emmons.

Speaker 7 (01:57:37):
Anyway. He wrote a detailed reports of his.

Speaker 3 (01:57:39):
Findings and asked Bishop Dale Malsex God these last names
he was, I want to call him Bishop Dale. He
asked permission to perform an exorcism. According to the priest,
Bishop Dale did not approve the church sanctioned exorcism.

Speaker 7 (01:58:00):
He didn't believe he had enough evidence.

Speaker 3 (01:58:03):
So he told the rev to talk to other priests
who had performed exorcisms and they could give him the
ritual for the minor exorcism. I guess there's a major
exorcism and a minor exorcism. One is church sanctioned the
major and the minor is not church sanctioned. But it's
almost the same ritual. So they said, do the minor.

(01:58:24):
One says you don't need the approval of the church
for it, and you'll get the same results or close
to the same results.

Speaker 7 (01:58:30):
But he contacted some.

Speaker 3 (01:58:32):
Peers to see about this ritual and they said, go
look on the internet.

Speaker 7 (01:58:36):
It's there. And I'm like, okay, we're just looking on
the internet for rituals.

Speaker 3 (01:58:42):
Now. No, that's not a thig because I do with
that as well. But I don't know, I just don't
feel like there was a lot of research that went
into this. We're just looking up keywords minor exorcism, ritual.

Speaker 7 (01:58:58):
There's something funny about that to me.

Speaker 3 (01:59:00):
The reverend does an intense blessing on the Carolina Street
house before the minor exorcism to expel any of the
bad spirits because they're connected. On that same day, he
performs the minor exorcism on ammens according to what I
found on the internet, can me looking on the internet
complaining about people looking on the internet.

Speaker 7 (01:59:21):
A minor ritual consists of prayers.

Speaker 3 (01:59:23):
And statements to cast out demons. Samantha, the dc worker
and two officers were intendants to watch over the ritual.
The DCS worker case manager person she felt something was
going on during the ritual and she had chills for
the whole of the two hours of the ritual. Samantha,

(01:59:44):
the DCS worker also said, right after she visited that
Carolina Street house, she had some weird things happened to her,
like the officer, but hers were medical problems. She got
third degree burns from a motorcycle, broke three ribs jet skiing,
broke her hand on a table, and then broke her

(02:00:06):
ankle in flip flops. Within thirty days of her going
into this house, all these things started to happen, she said, quote,
I had friends who wouldn't talk to me because they
believed that something had attached itself to me. I'm already evil.
They tried to find something that's not evil and corrupted.

(02:00:27):
They wouldn't waste their time on me.

Speaker 7 (02:00:29):
End quote.

Speaker 3 (02:00:31):
After the minor exorcism, the reverend told Ammonds to look
up the names of demons that were afflicting her. He
said that names have power and that he planned on
using the names of the demons during the next set
of exorcisms. And again, I don't understand why.

Speaker 7 (02:00:54):
The mother.

Speaker 3 (02:00:59):
Campbell is not being looked at all in these situations,
even though she is there the whole time. You can
hear her in some of the recordings from that walkthrough
with the oily substance and the walkthrough with the EVP.
You can hear her on all of the tapes. You

(02:01:21):
can see her in all of the video. She is
there continuously. Now, if it was me and I had
been given this case, I would have taken her out
of the house like far away, put her in the house,
see how the activity transpired, then driven her away from

(02:01:45):
the house, waited an hour, and then reinvestigated the house
to see how the energy of that house had changed.

Speaker 7 (02:01:52):
But that's going off of my intuition and doing this
for a twenty plus I'm still.

Speaker 3 (02:02:02):
Confused as to how she never got psyche Veld.

Speaker 7 (02:02:07):
She never.

Speaker 3 (02:02:09):
Was exercised, maybe because that guardian spirit was looking after
her anyway. With a friend, Ummonds looks up the name
of demons on the internet and she uses the issues
that are happening in the family as key words to
see what.

Speaker 7 (02:02:28):
Kind of demons would come up. She said that as
she searched.

Speaker 3 (02:02:31):
For the names of the computer kept turning on and
off and it was having technical issues, and then she
was also feeling sick and light headed.

Speaker 7 (02:02:40):
She didn't manage to find some.

Speaker 3 (02:02:41):
Name of some demons though. One was beelz above, which
is the lord of the flies. That's a really common
one though. And then the other demons that she found
were ones that hurt and a tortured children. She felt
intuitively that those were the ones that were possessing her children,
and she said that they were high ranking demons that

(02:03:01):
were assigned to her, including in lieutenants and sergeants.

Speaker 7 (02:03:06):
I guess that's a choice. So reverend.

Speaker 3 (02:03:11):
Does the minor exorcism, and then after he did it,
the bishop approved the major one. Now he's got his
church approved major exorcism, and so he does this on
June twelve of twenty twelve. He did two of them

(02:03:31):
in English and one of them in Latin. During the ritual,
he praised God and condemned the devil. He pressed a
crucifix into Amen's head, and he said the following, I
cast you out, unclean spirit, along with every satanic power
of the enemy, every specter from Hell, and all your

(02:03:54):
fellow companions, in the name of.

Speaker 7 (02:03:56):
Lord Jesus Christ.

Speaker 3 (02:03:58):
He would say the words, and then as he was
moving along, he would say them.

Speaker 7 (02:04:03):
Louder and more forceful.

Speaker 3 (02:04:06):
He said that he could tell how strong the demon
was by how Ammonds reacted to it when she moved
and convulsed. He said that it was a strong demon.
He had two of the police officers that he originally
Cavist the house with them on standby to hold down Amends.
When she started to convulse too much.

Speaker 7 (02:04:28):
Amends said that she.

Speaker 3 (02:04:30):
Prayed with the reverend until it physically hurt her and
it was too painful. She said, the pain was so
intense it was like giving birth.

Speaker 7 (02:04:40):
Quote.

Speaker 3 (02:04:41):
I was hurting all over from the inside out end quote.

Speaker 7 (02:04:47):
She remembered.

Speaker 3 (02:04:48):
Quote I am trying to do my best and be
strong end quote. During this whole process, I think it's interesting.
Ammends kept falling asleep. The reverend said this was the
demon's way of fighting back and lessening the effects of
the ritual, but he kept going on even though she
was falling asleep. Between the second and third ritual, the

(02:05:08):
reverend had to go on a retreat and Ammonds was
afraid that something was going to happen because the rights
had not been completed. The Reverend Michael did some kind
of weird failsafe procedure. He had a woman set up
a backup plan.

Speaker 7 (02:05:28):
While he was away. He had the woman write.

Speaker 3 (02:05:31):
A very long demon name, which in the interviews he
can't remember, but anyway, it was a demon name that
he put on a piece of paper. The paper was
put into an envelope and surrounded by blessing. So the
reverend informed the woman that if Ammonds had any problem,
all she had to do was pull the envelope out
of the salt and burn it and then everything would
be fixed.

Speaker 7 (02:05:52):
I've never heard of that ritual.

Speaker 3 (02:05:53):
Before this time, LaToya and Rosa had moved to a
new house in.

Speaker 7 (02:05:58):
Indianapolis, somewhere else completely.

Speaker 3 (02:06:01):
They were driving back and forth for the exorcisms and
to work with dcsd get the children back. The reverend
had blessed the new home, said there'd be no more problems,
so go to the gate. They're like, yeah, we're gonna
keep this on the lowdown. However, though, when the reverend
left for his retreat, Almonds called the woman saying that

(02:06:23):
she was having nightmares, so for some reason him not
being there, she felt like she was being spiritually attacked.
The woman took the envelope out of the bless assault
and burned it. She took the ashes and made sure
they were burned it in a church bonfire. Later on,
Almonds said that the nightmares stopped shortly after all of

(02:06:44):
the ashes were gone, so the fail safe seemed to work.

Speaker 4 (02:06:49):
Now.

Speaker 3 (02:06:49):
When the reverend got back, he performed the last and
final exorcist. This time he did it in Latin. The
two police officers couldn't attend that last one, so he
had his brothers stand as a bodyguard. At any time
that LaToya Ammends convulsed during the demon condemnation, he held

(02:07:10):
her down. When she fell asleep, he would say words
of thanksgiving. This was the last time that Almonds saw
the reverence. After this last rite, she went back to
her home in Indianapolis, and she never had any more
paranormal problems ever.

Speaker 7 (02:07:28):
Like ever, so I find to be completely odd.

Speaker 3 (02:07:32):
The Carolina Street house was rented and the new tenants
never had any problems with the home or experienced any
kind of paranormal activity. The landlord said, the only shoes
that they had were people driving by at night looking
for paranormal activity, people going outside and trying to do
investigations and see the shadow in the front window from

(02:07:56):
the picture that they saw on the internet. And this
case was really publicized, so there was a lot of
news articles about it and a lot of reports on
TV about it. It became a really popular case because,
like I said, that one part where the nine year
old went backwards up the wall, like everybody was talking
about it, so it was a popular case. In November

(02:08:18):
of twenty twelve, LaToya got her kids back and she
regained full custody. The family decided to stop their preoccupation
with the paranormal and they never had any issues again,
which again I find to be odd, but whatever. So
a couple of years later, Zach Beggins of the Ghosts

(02:08:39):
Adventures TV show bought the house for thirty five thousand dollars.

Speaker 7 (02:08:44):
I don't know why the owner sold that house.

Speaker 3 (02:08:49):
There's no interviews that I can find on that, but
I imagine it's because after this case became so popular
twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, I imagine that he was sick
of it. He just didn't want to deal with it anymore.
Thirty five thousand dollars is really cheap for a house. Anyway,

(02:09:09):
Zach begins buys it, then he publicizes it even more.
He does a ton of interviews. The internet is YouTube
mostly is flooded with Zach Baggins and interviews about the house.
There's article upon article about it. He hypes it up

(02:09:30):
to a ridiculous amount. It's god, it's so self serving.
I cannot stand that guy.

Speaker 7 (02:09:35):
This is my opinion of him. He just made it
something it didn't need to be anyway.

Speaker 3 (02:09:41):
After he went through this whole like junket of exploiting
this house, he filmed the paranormal documentary Demon House in It,
which is a shit show. I'll put a link to
it in the show notes if you want to see it.

Speaker 7 (02:09:56):
It's on YouTube for free. It's not that interesting. That's
where the whole portal.

Speaker 3 (02:10:03):
To Hell thing comes from. Because he decided the basement
was a portal to Hell.

Speaker 7 (02:10:08):
And because of that.

Speaker 3 (02:10:09):
Of course, now that he did the investigation instead of
letting other people investigate it, or instead of giving other
people a chance.

Speaker 7 (02:10:19):
To see if what he got was.

Speaker 3 (02:10:23):
Actually legitimate, in February of twenty sixteen, he had the
house demolished because I have.

Speaker 7 (02:10:31):
To get rid of the porthole to Hell.

Speaker 3 (02:10:34):
But he kept pieces of the basement for his Pern
Museum in Las Vegas. Yeah, so worried about the porthole,
but hey, let's take it to Vegas.

Speaker 7 (02:10:43):
Let's get that energy going, and let's profit off of it.

Speaker 3 (02:10:47):
The Demon House was released on March eighteenth, twenty eighteen.
It has a fifty eight percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
Originally it was thirty three and then thirty eight, and
now it's fifty eight, So I guess it's aged well
over a time. But yeah, in my opinion, it is
a piece of shit.

Speaker 7 (02:11:09):
If you are not into the.

Speaker 3 (02:11:12):
Whole Ghost Adventures way of investigation, which is like super
antagonistic and super bullshit and very like toxic masculinity, you
you might like it.

Speaker 7 (02:11:25):
If you're not into those things.

Speaker 3 (02:11:27):
In your actual traditional parental investigator and you actually want to, like,
you know, critically think about things and problem solve things
and look at other things besides portals and demons. Then
is probably gonna be really stupid for you. But anyway,
watch at your own risk. That's the case right there,

(02:11:50):
in a nutshell. What I want to say about this
whole portal to heal thing is there have been lots.

Speaker 7 (02:11:58):
Of case studies about this.

Speaker 3 (02:12:00):
Nothing that has been documented in a pure journal or
anything like that, but there's lots of cases about investigators
writing about this or talking about this. When we talk
amongst a bunch of investigators, they will tell you things.
And one of the things that is known that I'm

(02:12:22):
sure Baggins knows but is too much of a showman
to say, is that even if you tear down a house,
the land itself still holds the energy of the haunting
or the paranormal activity. So you can build a brand

(02:12:45):
new house on the same land and you will have
the same phenomenon. There are lots of places that have
been burned down that were haunted and then somebody built
a new house on it, and they're like, why is
my house haunted?

Speaker 7 (02:12:57):
It's a brand new house. It's not because us.

Speaker 3 (02:13:02):
The house is haunted, it's because the land itself has
been changed by the activity. There is a theory about
negative ions and fire and water because both have fire
and water have negative ions. But there is a theory
that the ions are changed during fire or through water damage,

(02:13:26):
and that can create the breed ground for paranormal activity.
And places that are highly active with parmal activity have
more negative ions attached to it. That's not science, but
I have played around with ion detectors and in my

(02:13:51):
experience I have noticed that there is a collection of
negative ions in places that have high parable activity. Also,
there are things like major waterways around their crystal quartz deposits, mycodeposits,

(02:14:11):
things that are highly charged, and they also change the
energy of the place, so it activates those negative ions.
I have been in places that have burned down and
tested for negative ions, and yes, the collection of negative

(02:14:35):
ions are higher in those locations. Then you can walk
on the place where the house burned down, and you
can go a hundred feet to another property and the
the negative ions will be higher in the place where
the house burned down. So I have played around with
these ideas. That doesn't mean that's truth.

Speaker 7 (02:14:55):
And it doesn't mean that's science.

Speaker 3 (02:14:57):
That's just something that I have observed because I'm a
highly curious person and I like to know these things.
So when I go and investigate places, I ask questions like, Hey,
did this place ever get burned down? Did you guys
ever have any major flooding here by any chance? In
the locations that are the most haunted. That's why I

(02:15:19):
ask these questions because that's how you get a base
for paranormal activity, like how it's created, why it becomes rampant,
why it becomes heightened, how to bring it down, how
to get rid of it, how to change it. People
always think I'm crazy because I'm like, yeah, you just
because you have a haunted house doesn't mean that you

(02:15:41):
have to.

Speaker 7 (02:15:41):
Have a haunted house. Like what, it's a force. I'm like, yeah,
it's a force, but so are we are.

Speaker 3 (02:15:46):
Energy is also part of it, So there are ways
that you can.

Speaker 7 (02:15:52):
Change the energy.

Speaker 3 (02:15:52):
There are ways that you can lessen a haunted There
are ways that you can change things up a bit.

Speaker 7 (02:16:01):
Maybe the haunting doesn't.

Speaker 3 (02:16:02):
Go away completely, However, if you're not feeding into the energy,
it does tend to.

Speaker 7 (02:16:11):
Make it dormant, or it lessens it to the point.

Speaker 3 (02:16:14):
Where you realize it's there, but it doesn't affect you
as much because you're like, oh, yeah, during this time
of the year or during these situations, the house is
probably gonna haunting it is, these things are probably going
to happen. I know. It's weird. It's weird. It's the
same thing with psych abilities. Always tell people you can
control your psychic ability, and so everyone's no, you can't,
and I'm like, you absolutely can't. You can turn them

(02:16:35):
on and off, you can play with them, you can
change them. It's how you think about them. It's the
intention you put into them. And same with hauntings. That's
why with stories like this, I have a really hard
time with it because I'm like, oh my god, Portos
and all demons, why are we feeding into this. The
very fact that the haunting didn't go with her to
the next house means that something shifted in the energy

(02:16:58):
of the people.

Speaker 7 (02:17:00):
Maybe losing the kids and going through.

Speaker 3 (02:17:04):
Some of these evaluations and learning techniques and changing the
way she did things and not obsessing over it so much.

Speaker 7 (02:17:14):
Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:17:17):
Maybe the mother calmed the fuck down, and that could
have changed the situation as well.

Speaker 7 (02:17:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:17:25):
I am only guessing based on the information that I have.

Speaker 7 (02:17:30):
So there you have it.

Speaker 3 (02:17:33):
That's the story of the Ammon's family demotic possession case.
Go watch the movie The Deliverance.

Speaker 7 (02:17:41):
It's really good. It's very interesting.

Speaker 3 (02:17:43):
It's got this different dynamic to it.

Speaker 7 (02:17:45):
It's less scary, more deep.

Speaker 3 (02:17:47):
It talks about some of these family dynamics, it talks
about some of the underlying issues with this kind of activity.
I've given you more than an information. Take what you want,
leave the rest. Don't believe me. I don't care.

Speaker 7 (02:18:08):
I had fun with this podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:18:12):
And I shall see you on the flip side.

Speaker 11 (02:18:16):
Thank you for listening to the MBus Alien Podcast. For
show notes, go to www dot com. I always post
links videos any kind of research materials that I used
for the episode, So if you want to go.

Speaker 7 (02:18:32):
A little more in your depth, that's where you go.

Speaker 11 (02:18:35):
If you want more of the podcast and you like
what we're doing, consider joining our Patreon. You get the
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Speaker 7 (02:18:45):
They are at free.

Speaker 3 (02:18:48):
There's terror readings and other bonus content that I throw
out there.

Speaker 7 (02:18:52):
It's a great way to.

Speaker 3 (02:18:54):
Help us out pace for production costs and it.

Speaker 12 (02:18:59):
Gives you more up to that's www dot mv slien
dot com, w w W dot m v U, s
alien dot com.

Speaker 7 (02:19:09):
And as always, see you on the flip side.

Speaker 3 (02:19:12):
Mm hmm

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