June 8, 2023 • 28 mins
Digital Ad Market Update: 6/2 - 6/8 2023
Joe, Kiersten, and Producer Alex are in the studio to break down the latest marketing, tech, and culture news. Hear it all in 29 minutes or less.
Top Story:
Apple recently unveiled its first product in the VR/AR headset space, and we are doing a deep dive into the capabilities of the device and the future of Apple's headset product line.
Articles Mentioned:
Apple Vision Headset: https://apple.co/3oKUB5x
Joe, Kiersten, and Producer Alex are in the studio to break down the latest marketing, tech, and culture news. Hear it all in 29 minutes or less.
Top Story:
Apple recently unveiled its first product in the VR/AR headset space, and we are doing a deep dive into the capabilities of the device and the future of Apple's headset product line.
Articles Mentioned:
Apple Vision Headset: https://apple.co/3oKUB5x
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
On today's LP Record Podcasts one longdiscussion about the Apple Vision Pro. Of
Record is a podcast focus on themarketing and advertising industry from the perspective of
(00:20):
industry expert Joe Clements. Joe Clementsis a co founder of Strategic Digital Services,
a digital marketing firm based in Tallahassee, Florida, and founded in twenty
fourteen. I'm Joe Clements and thisis the Podcast of Record. Everybody.
(00:57):
Welcome to another episode of the yourpodcast. I'm your host Joe Clemens,
with co host Kirsteno and Alex onthe buttons. Yes, the type of
applause you deserve for clicking those buttons. Hey, can you turn me down
a little bit? My vollium gotturned up just a little, just little
Yeah, thank you. I wantto yell in your ears, not my
(01:19):
own ears. So I think thebig story of this week is gonna be
Apple Vision Pro. Yeah. Yeah, So my tape is I was skeptical
when Apple started working on it,and then I saw what they actually released,
(01:41):
and I think it'll work. Idon't think it'll work for I think
they are very smart not to gogaming all in because that's what like meta
is, like oh, it's forgaming. They basically built it around everything
else, but end what's your takeon it? So originally I don't like
(02:04):
the headset stuff. I have myPlayStation one that's like an older one.
It was cool, it was anovelty thing. I've used it maybe two
times before. I was not interestedin it. We just watched the video
that they released with Vision and thatwas really cool. I think that this
is something that probably will not beused in everyday life just yet, but
(02:29):
would be extremely good if it waseducation focused or even like museum art focused.
I feel like it would get moreuse in that sector than like anything
else. Right now. At theprice point of thirty five dollars, yeah,
it's very expensive. I don't thinkthere's any doubt, Like I don't
(02:50):
think they're trying to sell a lotof these at thirty five hundred dollars.
I mean they might end up afterthe demo looks good. I think the
goal is push out the technology,let the technology curve, bring down the
cost, and wait and increase thecompute power, and then let it scale
(03:10):
out to the market. But Ithink the difference from that PlayStation or even
Meta's work as this looks kind oflike the difference between a BlackBerry and an
iPhone. To me, you mightnot be a believer in the product category
of headset, but the technology differenceis at least as big as BlackBerry to
iPhone. Just the fact that it'sARVR combined, I think is because that's
(03:38):
not Oculus is straight VR correct.Yeah, Oculus is just yeah, and
their first product is already higher resthan anything that Oculus offers, even the
newest ones. I know which yourtake, Alex. I mean, just
looking at how you can get fourK in a headset now is absolutely insane.
It's better than four K, serbetter than four Yeah, because I
(04:00):
have the Oculus quest the first one, and I think the max resolution is
ten eighty so going up to fourK is just astounding. Really yeah.
Yeah, So looking at it thedemos, it's so interesting that there was
like ten seconds about playing games.It was like, oh, yeah,
you can play a game. Butit's just like looking at a big screen
(04:23):
in front of you. What theyseem to focus on is like productivity.
So you can throw your MacBook screenson there, you can surf the internet
on there, you can consume contentin some new way in your space,
(04:43):
and then the other part that Iwas I was surprised that they picked up
on it because we've talked about itin here before. But the relaxation element,
Yeah, I was like that wasreally cool. Yeah, the meditation
app that like you change the youknow, you have this like orb spinning
or whatever. Yeah, and youcan just really meditate and zenow on it.
(05:08):
Yeah. I think that put iton in a plane and just disappear.
I don't know if I'd do itin a plane, I think because
that's the thing is, it's likeit looks so immersive that like it could
like actually scare you, like iflike somebody like touched your arm or something
like that, Like you would beso like deep into whatever world you're in.
Remember, it's scanning the environment aroundyou. So my guess is it
(05:30):
didn't show this that if somebody walksup beside you it alerts in some way.
Yeah, because it shows interesting aboutit is it shows the image of
your eyes in the front so peoplecan see your eyes. And then it
is still has a transparent mode toit so you can easily just click it
(05:51):
down. There's a dial on topthat lets you dial from just like overlay
to full VR. Yeah. Soyou kind of change how immersive you want
to be in it. That's true. So one thing I wanted to put
out is that, you know,there was an article from BBC I shared
that said, you know, InternationalData Corporation said that the headset market saw
(06:15):
a fifty four percent drop in globalsales last year. Do you think that
it's going to be a hard hurdlefor Apple to overcome? No, because
I think what it looks like andI wasn't sure what they were going to
roll out. What it looks likethey're rolling out is a compute platform that
within the decade will pretty much replacelaptops. Yeah, because so much of
(06:43):
what they're doing on here is whatyou can do on a laptop at your
workstation, only like way better.I think if it looks like it does
in the demo, so I thinkwhat they're aiming for is to replace a
laptop and everything else in the headset market was really aiming to replace,
like your TV or your gaming system. Yeah, I'm like, I think
(07:10):
there's a lot of possibility with this. My two big hang ups are one,
there's it only seems like it workswith other Apple programs, and like
Apple software, so somebody like meand Alex using Adobe are not going to
have that configuration just yet. Yeah, and this is one of the things
they talked about is that's why thisearly release is so expensive. They're pretty
(07:33):
much just hoping developers pick it upand start building for it. Yeah,
very similar early iPhone. Well that'strue. That that is really true.
And then second thing is I feellike it heavily relied on assuming that you
sit around and just flip through pictureson your phone a lot and and relive
(07:55):
memories and you know, make agallery out of your photo. Vryse or
Arise, I don't really spend awhole lot of time of her rooking at
my pictures on my phone unless I'mlooking for something specific to show somebody,
which you wouldn't be able to dowith somebody unless they had the headset.
I think you're right about that.And that is the result of there's just
(08:18):
a limited number of apps for it. Yeah, right, These are basically
repurposed iPhone apps, photos and Safariand things like that, And there's not
anything on here except for maybe themeditation app that looks like it is uniquely
(08:39):
uniquely suited for this sort of platform. Yeah, now it does, like
it can sync up with your Mac, so you might be able to use
it to replace like give your Maca huge screen in front of you if
you wanted to work off your Maclike that. Yeah, and maybe like
Adobe never really develops like a fullon Apple Vision app. What they do
(09:03):
is it just when it syncs upwith your Mac which is running the program,
you just have other options that you'rerendering when you're rendering in art Because
yeah, like what's going to stopLike, let's pretend that like Microsoft makes
a very similar product in the nextfour months. What's going to stop them
from striking the deal with Adobe firstbeing like, hey, you guys can
(09:26):
have exclusive rights to the Adobe appson your software system. That Adobe usually
wouldn't do that deal, No,they would, They would go with Apple,
but like you know, it's justor what if an Adobe makes their
own like headset, Yeah, andthey're like, it's just for the creators,
for the creator suite. It's onlytailored for them. So I think
(09:48):
what it looks like Apple's approach tothat was would just literally spend so much
time and money on developing the technologyin it that for any other competitor to
catch up would just be a fool'serrand yeah, you are better off just
building for that platform, Compete inthe app store, compete over product,
(10:11):
but you're not going to beat usin hardware on this. Similar to iPhone,
and look, there was competitors toiPhone. It took a little while
to get, you know, Androidscaled up. That is what it looks
like to me they're trying to do. I think you're right. I didn't
consider that, you know, thehardware, I mean, nobody has the
(10:33):
capital and the engineering powers. Alot of the stuff they're showing in this
too, they patented, and that'sone of the reasons it took so long.
So that like headstrap is patented.The way it adjusts, so the
other unique thing it does. Andthey don't show this use case, but
it essentially gives you twenty twenty vision. You don't wear your glasses with if
you have glasses, it adjusts toyour eyesight. And then there's external facing
(10:56):
cameras. So when you have iton and you have it fully transparent,
you have automatic twenty twenty vision.That's insane, which also means because it
has all the light ar cameras,somebody will this will be an early app
you effectively also have very high endnight vision. That's a game changer.
(11:18):
Yeah. So there's a lot ofelements they don't show in this demo that
I think do apply to using inyou know, maybe some more intense non
indoor things. Let's say, likelike what if you're like outbird watching and
you're like, ah, bald eagle, Zoom zoom zoom, Like that would
(11:39):
be kind of cool that if youcould just like zoom in and get a
nice clear picture as if you werelooking through like a camera. Yeah,
or if you're doing let's say awalk through of a structure that you're inspecting
and you can see you can seeyou know, aar overlays of the plans
or everything should be, or youcan just look into a dark corner without
(12:01):
right, there's a lot of there'sa lot of elements there that it's not
just augmented reality. It also enhancesexisting senses right because it not it can
give you twenty twenty vision when you'rein full transparency. You also, in
theory, have all the other sensorsthat are on board. The battery pack
(12:24):
only last two hours oh two out. I mean, I know it'll get
better, but when we were lookingat the pictures, I went like,
oh my god, why doesn't havea chord? Like I couldn't like,
I'm sorry, But if I openedthe door and my guest was like coming
in with that, I'd be like, you need to leave. Or if
(12:45):
I opened the if like someone invitedme to their house and they were wearing
that with that battery pack in theirpocket, I'd be like, I gotta
go, I gotta get out ofhere. I don't know, Like the
it is kind of wild to methat they couldn't figure out a way that
the heads that could just be likea wireless charge like that. It just
like a laptop, you plug itin. Well, it's not about charging
(13:05):
it, it's about where do youcarry the power supply? Right? But
like it to me, it's like, it's interesting that they couldn't figure that
out. So I've read that it'salso magnetic. It can stick onto the
back of the to the headpiece,of to the headband, but I don't
know. Because it's strapped to yourface, you're always going to have to
(13:26):
have some place for the power supplyto be carried. Remember when we used
to say fab g was given uscancer. When we would like sleeping next
to our phones. Well, Ithink that's why that demo they never show
it attached to the headband. Yeah, they're probably like, let's run the
way that. We don't really knowwhat that's like. If you're wearing a
battery pack two hours a day onyour head or more, well you also
(13:46):
have all of the other things thatare on that headset too, that you
know, who knows, maybe worsefor you than the battery. Oh,
nothing like cooking your brain in asou vied kind of sort of way.
If I gave you one today andthese won't be available till early next year,
what would you start using it for? This is so dumb. I
(14:09):
was thinking when we were watching thevideo, I would probably just browse TikTok
on that. But I would belaying down and my neck wouldn't have such
a kink at it, like becauseI'm always looking down. When I saw
the videos of people like sitting therewatching the movies, I'm like, why
would you be sitting there watching yourmovie? I would be like laying down,
like from the most comfortable experience ever, like or like in a reclined
(14:31):
position where like my neck is notlike supported like that is a really clever
observation that I never would have thoughtof that the position you view things in
is mostly dictated based on that ithas to hang on a wall, yeah,
where other people can see it.Well. People even say in the
decor community, like don't put yourTV on top of your fireplace, not
(14:56):
because it could you know, smokeit, but because it is not an
optimal level for your eyes or yourneck, because your head will be tilted
up. You'll get like a strainin your eyes. Yeah, that's why
they say, like you gotta keepit like a little bit lower, don't
hang it up there. Yeah.And I mean, like we all know,
like people's necks are messed up fromlooking at their phones all day and
stuff like. Yeah, that isn'tjust so you would for entertainment, you
(15:20):
would just whatever position is like maximallycomfortable. I would get one of those
like you know, like those oldstores like Brookstone where they would have like
all the like the fancy tech andthey have like that zero gravity chair that
you could sit in. Yeah.I would invest in that and just wear
the helmet and I would have themost ultimate like no compression on my joints
(15:41):
like experience. I sound really oldwhen I say this, Like, but
it would be so nice. Yeah, So you would use it so that
your consumption of existing content is justmore comfortable, because even with the thing
on your head, if you're alreadykind of leaning back, reclined, it
doesn't matter as much. Right holdingit up right my head, I would
(16:03):
probably have no neck because I wouldnever feel like i'd need to support it
again, Alex, what would youuse it for? I would be curious
if there was an app that couldcontrol a drone. Oh yeah, you
could like pilot it through that.Oh so like a first person view drone.
I'm sure that'll be one of theyou know, in the first year,
(16:23):
they'll be one of those that technologyalready is like out there, but
like you know, owned by othercompanies that I'm sure they will all jump
on that pretty quick. So neitherof the two of you are like,
oh, I want to use itfor virtual office meetings so we have a
real sense of presence. But wouldyou use it for the most compelling piece?
(16:49):
To me looked like the like relaxation, like creating an environment that you
want to be in, which Idon't. I remember it's been a while
we talked about what are the YouTubevideos called where it's just like the aesthetic
kind the aesthetic that where it's justlike roaring fireplace and a snowstorm and it's
just like ambient, the ambient.Yeah, thats what I and we talked
(17:12):
about this, and what I saidis I thought that the ambient thing would
be what pulled people into a VR. And I didn't see the mix of
ARVR coming, but would pull peopleinto like VR because the value proposition wouldn't
be games because games are already prettygood onto TV and like. But the
(17:36):
value proposition maybe this ability to wheneveryou want, inhabit the environment that you
find to be most comfortable, mostrelaxing, most exciting, most interesting.
Yeah, and so I think there'sIf that's the case, then what you
should see are a number of appsand then a whole segment of the developers
(18:00):
that specialize on creating these bespoke spacesthat you dwell in when you have the
headset on talking about like meditation andpeace and like beautiful places to be.
Like, the dark side of thisis going to be nuts, Like the
augmented reality when it comes to likepornography and stuff is going to be dangerous.
(18:22):
Well, and the and the theAI too, right, because not
only will the visual stimulus be there, but it will be very good at
responding to you and remember who youare and what you like. Yeah,
so, I you know, oneof the one of the kind of thinkers
that I follow, he has thisthesis that what you'll see emerge is you
(18:48):
will be able to create and haveThese are characters that dwell in your life,
that live in your house, thatyou have relationships with, and that
seem to have a relationship with you. They remember conversations from the past,
they can respond to things, theycan generate ideas. But essentially, when
you put on the headset, likeyou can have any number of characters that
(19:12):
only you can see and talk toin your house that you actually have a
relationship with. I usually just callthose my cats, but yeah, these
could actually talk back to me.Imagine if it was like, you know,
Harry Potter or Spider Man, butit's like your Harry Potter and your
Spider Man, and then like there'llbe the conversation of people like putting celebrities
(19:33):
in their house, like Taylor Sliftjust sits on their couch all day and
then she's gonna be like, guys, stop putting me in your realities.
I don't want to be there orlicense is it? Yeah, I mean
yeah, I mean like, butI mean it almost like becomes a weird
like a hostage situation that's not reallya hostage. Well, the AI is
(19:56):
just going to like it because that'swhat it's pogrammed to do. Like again,
like this goes back to like theyou know, autonomy of AI or
whatever. It's like, I mean, I have a hard time even using
like chat GPT without saying it pleaseand thank you to it because I feel
obligated too. Now, I thinkyou'll have that relationship with those type of
(20:17):
characters if it gets that level.But what you can see is if that
technology is as good as the demoshow, and this is first generation,
what is the you know, Ithink iPhone probably really hit its stride at
iPhone five, yes, which bestone, which was five or six years
in from the release of the iPhone. So what is the iPhone five of
(20:41):
Apple vision, because you know thatcould be so good at creating realities that
like, m what's the point inspending much time in your own reality?
I'm gonna put money on it rightnow. It's gonna be vision, and
the three is going to be umlike Roman numerals like I already see it
(21:06):
in my head. So the thirdgeneration one will be the one that everybody,
everybody gets. It will be atthat final affordable price, and all
the weird kings with it will allbe like worked out, and enough apps
and other people third party will beable to plug into it. I think
you just have like twenty twenty nightvision all the time light ar. Yeah,
(21:30):
there might be some like haptic hsensors in there too, um.
I didn't read that. They're theyfocus a lot on the audio that they
had, um, but the hapticstuff, I think that would be the
next stip. Let me ask youthis, does it need the haptic stuff?
The haptic it means like that therate h I think I think it
(21:56):
does. I think you need glovesif you're going to replace some sort of
typing, because in some of thedemos they show somebody at a desk and
there's like a virtual keyboard. Ican't imagine anything more annoying than typing on
a virtual keyboard. Those there's likethe projection keyboards I see that like are
like the techy. I'm like dude, I like, like, I like
(22:17):
mechanical you need, I think inorder to type quickly, you need the
feedback from tapping, right, youknow. That's why the iPhone kind of
like when it vibrates when you tap, so Alex, you think maybe the
gloves are the starting point. Isay, but I have that turned off
on my phone when I type.I don't have like the really, I
(22:38):
don't think so. No. I'mlike, well, it doesn't make the
noise, but does it vibrate whenyou tap it? No? Okay,
so that's weird. I didn't realizethat, but I've gotten used to that,
strangely, only for my thumbs though. I mean, look, maybe
maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if thetechnology is good enough at seeing your hands
(22:59):
and correcting, you know, knowingwhat you mean, maybe you don't need
any gloves at all for that.Yeah, I feel like I would need.
Like I said, I like amechanical keyboard, like I like the
clickity clackity, like you can simulatethat pretty well. Yeah, in a
(23:19):
haptic situation, I don't know.I'd be interesting. I'm interested to see
how that progresses. You know,is it the gloves that people or the
shoes I don't know. My guessis it's the gloves because that's the most
sensitive part of your body that youuse routinely. Yeah, how I was
thinking about this also, and Iknow we kind of have to wrap,
(23:41):
but I don't know if this isgoing to be good for people with disabilities
yet either. I think there's alot of like hurdles with that because like
if you don't have hands, orif you don't have good hands, or
like if you have nerve damage oryou know, like and even look like
your site, like you have tohave vision to use this, like you
(24:02):
can't like if you're blind, likeit's, yeah, you're out. I
think you're right. If you're visuallyimpaired, it's probably not that useful to
you, yeah, or if likeI mean you can't even like like let's
say you're paralyzed. Not to saylike this is a huge population, but
the population does exist that like youwouldn't be able to turn your head or
(24:22):
you wouldn't be able to make maybeyou can't move your eyes like, yeah,
good point there, I just thoughtof that. I think what happens
with that stuff though, with theprosis you just mentioned, is eventually the
AI gets good enough at like readinglike very small muscle movements, and that's
how people in those situations guide theproduct. Or there's maybe something else that
(24:45):
you can use, like maybe it'syour toes. Yeah, like you know,
maybe it's something else, like there'slike some people do use their eyes
to like coordinate, like a keyboardor something like that a problem in real
life too, So just hasn't fixedthat issue all right, Any last thoughts
on Vision Pro. I know wegot to cut this one a little shorter
(25:08):
today. If anyone walks into theoffice with it on, I'm gonna walk
right out. Not until next year. I'm I'm buying one right away,
Like hey guys on that wait list. Um, I think it'll work.
I don't know it'll work like iPhoneworked. I think it maybe works like
Apple Watch worked. Yeah, Um, I think it works like Apple Watch.
(25:33):
Like, I think it has aboutthat much adoption. So look around,
look for the people that wear AppleWatches. Those are probably the people
that will eventually end up with thewith the headset not a Yeah apple Watch
was on Saleman. That's when Ifinally Yeah, last question, what is
(25:57):
the price point that you think peopleare like, Oh, I want one?
It would have to be the priceof like an iPhone, where you
can finance it over a two yearperiod. So I would say probably like
a thousand dollars, yeah, anywherelike eight hundred to twelve hundred. Yeah,
I think a thousand dollars is probablythe mark. That's what people pay
for a computer, and you canfinance it out the same way. So
(26:18):
and you know, people will startmaking the arment. It actually replaces my
TV. Yeah, and it replacesyou know, my computer, even though
I think for people doing hardercore computetask it's not going to replace a computer.
It will work with the computer,but like, no one's carrying a
MacPro worth of compute on their headlike a backpack. Oh god, all
(26:45):
right everyone, thank you for listeningto this episode of the Record podcast.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a review on your podcast
app of choice. Until next time, This has been a record. Of
(27:12):
Record is hosted by me Joe Clementswith the assistance of producer Alex Reinhard.
Of Record is produced at the TrailwayStudio in Tallahassee, Florida. This episode
was edited by producer Alex Reinhard.Our theme music is composed and performed by
Rob Goki Special thanks to our entireteam here at SDS. You can see
(27:33):
more information about the show on ourwebsite, Podcast of Record dot com.
As always, we'd appreciate your reviewsand ratings in your podcast app of choice.
These ratings and reviews help more peoplediscover the show, which helps us
keep delivering quality content each week.Thanks for listening.
On today's LP Record Podcasts one longdiscussion about the Apple Vision Pro. Of
Record is a podcast focus on themarketing and advertising industry from the perspective of
(00:20):
industry expert Joe Clements. Joe Clementsis a co founder of Strategic Digital Services,
a digital marketing firm based in Tallahassee, Florida, and founded in twenty
fourteen. I'm Joe Clements and thisis the Podcast of Record. Everybody.
(00:57):
Welcome to another episode of the yourpodcast. I'm your host Joe Clemens,
with co host Kirsteno and Alex onthe buttons. Yes, the type of
applause you deserve for clicking those buttons. Hey, can you turn me down
a little bit? My vollium gotturned up just a little, just little
Yeah, thank you. I wantto yell in your ears, not my
(01:19):
own ears. So I think thebig story of this week is gonna be
Apple Vision Pro. Yeah. Yeah, So my tape is I was skeptical
when Apple started working on it,and then I saw what they actually released,
(01:41):
and I think it'll work. Idon't think it'll work for I think
they are very smart not to gogaming all in because that's what like meta
is, like oh, it's forgaming. They basically built it around everything
else, but end what's your takeon it? So originally I don't like
(02:04):
the headset stuff. I have myPlayStation one that's like an older one.
It was cool, it was anovelty thing. I've used it maybe two
times before. I was not interestedin it. We just watched the video
that they released with Vision and thatwas really cool. I think that this
is something that probably will not beused in everyday life just yet, but
(02:29):
would be extremely good if it waseducation focused or even like museum art focused.
I feel like it would get moreuse in that sector than like anything
else. Right now. At theprice point of thirty five dollars, yeah,
it's very expensive. I don't thinkthere's any doubt, Like I don't
(02:50):
think they're trying to sell a lotof these at thirty five hundred dollars.
I mean they might end up afterthe demo looks good. I think the
goal is push out the technology,let the technology curve, bring down the
cost, and wait and increase thecompute power, and then let it scale
(03:10):
out to the market. But Ithink the difference from that PlayStation or even
Meta's work as this looks kind oflike the difference between a BlackBerry and an
iPhone. To me, you mightnot be a believer in the product category
of headset, but the technology differenceis at least as big as BlackBerry to
iPhone. Just the fact that it'sARVR combined, I think is because that's
(03:38):
not Oculus is straight VR correct.Yeah, Oculus is just yeah, and
their first product is already higher resthan anything that Oculus offers, even the
newest ones. I know which yourtake, Alex. I mean, just
looking at how you can get fourK in a headset now is absolutely insane.
It's better than four K, serbetter than four Yeah, because I
(04:00):
have the Oculus quest the first one, and I think the max resolution is
ten eighty so going up to fourK is just astounding. Really yeah.
Yeah, So looking at it thedemos, it's so interesting that there was
like ten seconds about playing games.It was like, oh, yeah,
you can play a game. Butit's just like looking at a big screen
(04:23):
in front of you. What theyseem to focus on is like productivity.
So you can throw your MacBook screenson there, you can surf the internet
on there, you can consume contentin some new way in your space,
(04:43):
and then the other part that Iwas I was surprised that they picked up
on it because we've talked about itin here before. But the relaxation element,
Yeah, I was like that wasreally cool. Yeah, the meditation
app that like you change the youknow, you have this like orb spinning
or whatever. Yeah, and youcan just really meditate and zenow on it.
(05:08):
Yeah. I think that put iton in a plane and just disappear.
I don't know if I'd do itin a plane, I think because
that's the thing is, it's likeit looks so immersive that like it could
like actually scare you, like iflike somebody like touched your arm or something
like that, Like you would beso like deep into whatever world you're in.
Remember, it's scanning the environment aroundyou. So my guess is it
(05:30):
didn't show this that if somebody walksup beside you it alerts in some way.
Yeah, because it shows interesting aboutit is it shows the image of
your eyes in the front so peoplecan see your eyes. And then it
is still has a transparent mode toit so you can easily just click it
(05:51):
down. There's a dial on topthat lets you dial from just like overlay
to full VR. Yeah. Soyou kind of change how immersive you want
to be in it. That's true. So one thing I wanted to put
out is that, you know,there was an article from BBC I shared
that said, you know, InternationalData Corporation said that the headset market saw
(06:15):
a fifty four percent drop in globalsales last year. Do you think that
it's going to be a hard hurdlefor Apple to overcome? No, because
I think what it looks like andI wasn't sure what they were going to
roll out. What it looks likethey're rolling out is a compute platform that
within the decade will pretty much replacelaptops. Yeah, because so much of
(06:43):
what they're doing on here is whatyou can do on a laptop at your
workstation, only like way better.I think if it looks like it does
in the demo, so I thinkwhat they're aiming for is to replace a
laptop and everything else in the headset market was really aiming to replace,
like your TV or your gaming system. Yeah, I'm like, I think
(07:10):
there's a lot of possibility with this. My two big hang ups are one,
there's it only seems like it workswith other Apple programs, and like
Apple software, so somebody like meand Alex using Adobe are not going to
have that configuration just yet. Yeah, and this is one of the things
they talked about is that's why thisearly release is so expensive. They're pretty
(07:33):
much just hoping developers pick it upand start building for it. Yeah,
very similar early iPhone. Well that'strue. That that is really true.
And then second thing is I feellike it heavily relied on assuming that you
sit around and just flip through pictureson your phone a lot and and relive
(07:55):
memories and you know, make agallery out of your photo. Vryse or
Arise, I don't really spend awhole lot of time of her rooking at
my pictures on my phone unless I'mlooking for something specific to show somebody,
which you wouldn't be able to dowith somebody unless they had the headset.
I think you're right about that.And that is the result of there's just
(08:18):
a limited number of apps for it. Yeah, right, These are basically
repurposed iPhone apps, photos and Safariand things like that, And there's not
anything on here except for maybe themeditation app that looks like it is uniquely
(08:39):
uniquely suited for this sort of platform. Yeah, now it does, like
it can sync up with your Mac, so you might be able to use
it to replace like give your Maca huge screen in front of you if
you wanted to work off your Maclike that. Yeah, and maybe like
Adobe never really develops like a fullon Apple Vision app. What they do
(09:03):
is it just when it syncs upwith your Mac which is running the program,
you just have other options that you'rerendering when you're rendering in art Because
yeah, like what's going to stopLike, let's pretend that like Microsoft makes
a very similar product in the nextfour months. What's going to stop them
from striking the deal with Adobe firstbeing like, hey, you guys can
(09:26):
have exclusive rights to the Adobe appson your software system. That Adobe usually
wouldn't do that deal, No,they would, They would go with Apple,
but like you know, it's justor what if an Adobe makes their
own like headset, Yeah, andthey're like, it's just for the creators,
for the creator suite. It's onlytailored for them. So I think
(09:48):
what it looks like Apple's approach tothat was would just literally spend so much
time and money on developing the technologyin it that for any other competitor to
catch up would just be a fool'serrand yeah, you are better off just
building for that platform, Compete inthe app store, compete over product,
(10:11):
but you're not going to beat usin hardware on this. Similar to iPhone,
and look, there was competitors toiPhone. It took a little while
to get, you know, Androidscaled up. That is what it looks
like to me they're trying to do. I think you're right. I didn't
consider that, you know, thehardware, I mean, nobody has the
(10:33):
capital and the engineering powers. Alot of the stuff they're showing in this
too, they patented, and that'sone of the reasons it took so long.
So that like headstrap is patented.The way it adjusts, so the
other unique thing it does. Andthey don't show this use case, but
it essentially gives you twenty twenty vision. You don't wear your glasses with if
you have glasses, it adjusts toyour eyesight. And then there's external facing
(10:56):
cameras. So when you have iton and you have it fully transparent,
you have automatic twenty twenty vision.That's insane, which also means because it
has all the light ar cameras,somebody will this will be an early app
you effectively also have very high endnight vision. That's a game changer.
(11:18):
Yeah. So there's a lot ofelements they don't show in this demo that
I think do apply to using inyou know, maybe some more intense non
indoor things. Let's say, likelike what if you're like outbird watching and
you're like, ah, bald eagle, Zoom zoom zoom, Like that would
(11:39):
be kind of cool that if youcould just like zoom in and get a
nice clear picture as if you werelooking through like a camera. Yeah,
or if you're doing let's say awalk through of a structure that you're inspecting
and you can see you can seeyou know, aar overlays of the plans
or everything should be, or youcan just look into a dark corner without
(12:01):
right, there's a lot of there'sa lot of elements there that it's not
just augmented reality. It also enhancesexisting senses right because it not it can
give you twenty twenty vision when you'rein full transparency. You also, in
theory, have all the other sensorsthat are on board. The battery pack
(12:24):
only last two hours oh two out. I mean, I know it'll get
better, but when we were lookingat the pictures, I went like,
oh my god, why doesn't havea chord? Like I couldn't like,
I'm sorry, But if I openedthe door and my guest was like coming
in with that, I'd be like, you need to leave. Or if
(12:45):
I opened the if like someone invitedme to their house and they were wearing
that with that battery pack in theirpocket, I'd be like, I gotta
go, I gotta get out ofhere. I don't know, Like the
it is kind of wild to methat they couldn't figure out a way that
the heads that could just be likea wireless charge like that. It just
like a laptop, you plug itin. Well, it's not about charging
(13:05):
it, it's about where do youcarry the power supply? Right? But
like it to me, it's like, it's interesting that they couldn't figure that
out. So I've read that it'salso magnetic. It can stick onto the
back of the to the headpiece,of to the headband, but I don't
know. Because it's strapped to yourface, you're always going to have to
(13:26):
have some place for the power supplyto be carried. Remember when we used
to say fab g was given uscancer. When we would like sleeping next
to our phones. Well, Ithink that's why that demo they never show
it attached to the headband. Yeah, they're probably like, let's run the
way that. We don't really knowwhat that's like. If you're wearing a
battery pack two hours a day onyour head or more, well you also
(13:46):
have all of the other things thatare on that headset too, that you
know, who knows, maybe worsefor you than the battery. Oh,
nothing like cooking your brain in asou vied kind of sort of way.
If I gave you one today andthese won't be available till early next year,
what would you start using it for? This is so dumb. I
(14:09):
was thinking when we were watching thevideo, I would probably just browse TikTok
on that. But I would belaying down and my neck wouldn't have such
a kink at it, like becauseI'm always looking down. When I saw
the videos of people like sitting therewatching the movies, I'm like, why
would you be sitting there watching yourmovie? I would be like laying down,
like from the most comfortable experience ever, like or like in a reclined
(14:31):
position where like my neck is notlike supported like that is a really clever
observation that I never would have thoughtof that the position you view things in
is mostly dictated based on that ithas to hang on a wall, yeah,
where other people can see it.Well. People even say in the
decor community, like don't put yourTV on top of your fireplace, not
(14:56):
because it could you know, smokeit, but because it is not an
optimal level for your eyes or yourneck, because your head will be tilted
up. You'll get like a strainin your eyes. Yeah, that's why
they say, like you gotta keepit like a little bit lower, don't
hang it up there. Yeah.And I mean, like we all know,
like people's necks are messed up fromlooking at their phones all day and
stuff like. Yeah, that isn'tjust so you would for entertainment, you
(15:20):
would just whatever position is like maximallycomfortable. I would get one of those
like you know, like those oldstores like Brookstone where they would have like
all the like the fancy tech andthey have like that zero gravity chair that
you could sit in. Yeah.I would invest in that and just wear
the helmet and I would have themost ultimate like no compression on my joints
(15:41):
like experience. I sound really oldwhen I say this, Like, but
it would be so nice. Yeah, So you would use it so that
your consumption of existing content is justmore comfortable, because even with the thing
on your head, if you're alreadykind of leaning back, reclined, it
doesn't matter as much. Right holdingit up right my head, I would
(16:03):
probably have no neck because I wouldnever feel like i'd need to support it
again, Alex, what would youuse it for? I would be curious
if there was an app that couldcontrol a drone. Oh yeah, you
could like pilot it through that.Oh so like a first person view drone.
I'm sure that'll be one of theyou know, in the first year,
(16:23):
they'll be one of those that technologyalready is like out there, but
like you know, owned by othercompanies that I'm sure they will all jump
on that pretty quick. So neitherof the two of you are like,
oh, I want to use itfor virtual office meetings so we have a
real sense of presence. But wouldyou use it for the most compelling piece?
(16:49):
To me looked like the like relaxation, like creating an environment that you
want to be in, which Idon't. I remember it's been a while
we talked about what are the YouTubevideos called where it's just like the aesthetic
kind the aesthetic that where it's justlike roaring fireplace and a snowstorm and it's
just like ambient, the ambient.Yeah, thats what I and we talked
(17:12):
about this, and what I saidis I thought that the ambient thing would
be what pulled people into a VR. And I didn't see the mix of
ARVR coming, but would pull peopleinto like VR because the value proposition wouldn't
be games because games are already prettygood onto TV and like. But the
(17:36):
value proposition maybe this ability to wheneveryou want, inhabit the environment that you
find to be most comfortable, mostrelaxing, most exciting, most interesting.
Yeah, and so I think there'sIf that's the case, then what you
should see are a number of appsand then a whole segment of the developers
(18:00):
that specialize on creating these bespoke spacesthat you dwell in when you have the
headset on talking about like meditation andpeace and like beautiful places to be.
Like, the dark side of thisis going to be nuts, Like the
augmented reality when it comes to likepornography and stuff is going to be dangerous.
(18:22):
Well, and the and the theAI too, right, because not
only will the visual stimulus be there, but it will be very good at
responding to you and remember who youare and what you like. Yeah,
so, I you know, oneof the one of the kind of thinkers
that I follow, he has thisthesis that what you'll see emerge is you
(18:48):
will be able to create and haveThese are characters that dwell in your life,
that live in your house, thatyou have relationships with, and that
seem to have a relationship with you. They remember conversations from the past,
they can respond to things, theycan generate ideas. But essentially, when
you put on the headset, likeyou can have any number of characters that
(19:12):
only you can see and talk toin your house that you actually have a
relationship with. I usually just callthose my cats, but yeah, these
could actually talk back to me.Imagine if it was like, you know,
Harry Potter or Spider Man, butit's like your Harry Potter and your
Spider Man, and then like there'llbe the conversation of people like putting celebrities
(19:33):
in their house, like Taylor Sliftjust sits on their couch all day and
then she's gonna be like, guys, stop putting me in your realities.
I don't want to be there orlicense is it? Yeah, I mean
yeah, I mean like, butI mean it almost like becomes a weird
like a hostage situation that's not reallya hostage. Well, the AI is
(19:56):
just going to like it because that'swhat it's pogrammed to do. Like again,
like this goes back to like theyou know, autonomy of AI or
whatever. It's like, I mean, I have a hard time even using
like chat GPT without saying it pleaseand thank you to it because I feel
obligated too. Now, I thinkyou'll have that relationship with those type of
(20:17):
characters if it gets that level.But what you can see is if that
technology is as good as the demoshow, and this is first generation,
what is the you know, Ithink iPhone probably really hit its stride at
iPhone five, yes, which bestone, which was five or six years
in from the release of the iPhone. So what is the iPhone five of
(20:41):
Apple vision, because you know thatcould be so good at creating realities that
like, m what's the point inspending much time in your own reality?
I'm gonna put money on it rightnow. It's gonna be vision, and
the three is going to be umlike Roman numerals like I already see it
(21:06):
in my head. So the thirdgeneration one will be the one that everybody,
everybody gets. It will be atthat final affordable price, and all
the weird kings with it will allbe like worked out, and enough apps
and other people third party will beable to plug into it. I think
you just have like twenty twenty nightvision all the time light ar. Yeah,
(21:30):
there might be some like haptic hsensors in there too, um.
I didn't read that. They're theyfocus a lot on the audio that they
had, um, but the hapticstuff, I think that would be the
next stip. Let me ask youthis, does it need the haptic stuff?
The haptic it means like that therate h I think I think it
(21:56):
does. I think you need glovesif you're going to replace some sort of
typing, because in some of thedemos they show somebody at a desk and
there's like a virtual keyboard. Ican't imagine anything more annoying than typing on
a virtual keyboard. Those there's likethe projection keyboards I see that like are
like the techy. I'm like dude, I like, like, I like
(22:17):
mechanical you need, I think inorder to type quickly, you need the
feedback from tapping, right, youknow. That's why the iPhone kind of
like when it vibrates when you tap, so Alex, you think maybe the
gloves are the starting point. Isay, but I have that turned off
on my phone when I type.I don't have like the really, I
(22:38):
don't think so. No. I'mlike, well, it doesn't make the
noise, but does it vibrate whenyou tap it? No? Okay,
so that's weird. I didn't realizethat, but I've gotten used to that,
strangely, only for my thumbs though. I mean, look, maybe
maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if thetechnology is good enough at seeing your hands
(22:59):
and correcting, you know, knowingwhat you mean, maybe you don't need
any gloves at all for that.Yeah, I feel like I would need.
Like I said, I like amechanical keyboard, like I like the
clickity clackity, like you can simulatethat pretty well. Yeah, in a
(23:19):
haptic situation, I don't know.I'd be interesting. I'm interested to see
how that progresses. You know,is it the gloves that people or the
shoes I don't know. My guessis it's the gloves because that's the most
sensitive part of your body that youuse routinely. Yeah, how I was
thinking about this also, and Iknow we kind of have to wrap,
(23:41):
but I don't know if this isgoing to be good for people with disabilities
yet either. I think there's alot of like hurdles with that because like
if you don't have hands, orif you don't have good hands, or
like if you have nerve damage oryou know, like and even look like
your site, like you have tohave vision to use this, like you
(24:02):
can't like if you're blind, likeit's, yeah, you're out. I
think you're right. If you're visuallyimpaired, it's probably not that useful to
you, yeah, or if likeI mean you can't even like like let's
say you're paralyzed. Not to saylike this is a huge population, but
the population does exist that like youwouldn't be able to turn your head or
(24:22):
you wouldn't be able to make maybeyou can't move your eyes like, yeah,
good point there, I just thoughtof that. I think what happens
with that stuff though, with theprosis you just mentioned, is eventually the
AI gets good enough at like readinglike very small muscle movements, and that's
how people in those situations guide theproduct. Or there's maybe something else that
(24:45):
you can use, like maybe it'syour toes. Yeah, like you know,
maybe it's something else, like there'slike some people do use their eyes
to like coordinate, like a keyboardor something like that a problem in real
life too, So just hasn't fixedthat issue all right, Any last thoughts
on Vision Pro. I know wegot to cut this one a little shorter
(25:08):
today. If anyone walks into theoffice with it on, I'm gonna walk
right out. Not until next year. I'm I'm buying one right away,
Like hey guys on that wait list. Um, I think it'll work.
I don't know it'll work like iPhoneworked. I think it maybe works like
Apple Watch worked. Yeah, Um, I think it works like Apple Watch.
(25:33):
Like, I think it has aboutthat much adoption. So look around,
look for the people that wear AppleWatches. Those are probably the people
that will eventually end up with thewith the headset not a Yeah apple Watch
was on Saleman. That's when Ifinally Yeah, last question, what is
(25:57):
the price point that you think peopleare like, Oh, I want one?
It would have to be the priceof like an iPhone, where you
can finance it over a two yearperiod. So I would say probably like
a thousand dollars, yeah, anywherelike eight hundred to twelve hundred. Yeah,
I think a thousand dollars is probablythe mark. That's what people pay
for a computer, and you canfinance it out the same way. So
(26:18):
and you know, people will startmaking the arment. It actually replaces my
TV. Yeah, and it replacesyou know, my computer, even though
I think for people doing hardercore computetask it's not going to replace a computer.
It will work with the computer,but like, no one's carrying a
MacPro worth of compute on their headlike a backpack. Oh god, all
(26:45):
right everyone, thank you for listeningto this episode of the Record podcast.
If you liked what you heard,please leave us a review on your podcast
app of choice. Until next time, This has been a record. Of
(27:12):
Record is hosted by me Joe Clementswith the assistance of producer Alex Reinhard.
Of Record is produced at the TrailwayStudio in Tallahassee, Florida. This episode
was edited by producer Alex Reinhard.Our theme music is composed and performed by
Rob Goki Special thanks to our entireteam here at SDS. You can see
(27:33):
more information about the show on ourwebsite, Podcast of Record dot com.
As always, we'd appreciate your reviewsand ratings in your podcast app of choice.
These ratings and reviews help more peoplediscover the show, which helps us
keep delivering quality content each week.Thanks for listening.
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