14: The Perfect Weapon

Steven Seagal is one of the biggest action stars of the '90s, starring in some of the biggest action films of the decade. He ended up dropping off the radar completely in the early 2000s, being relegated to the Walmart bargain bins and truck stop DVD corners. Mainstream action fans all but forget his talents, but no longer.

The Kulturecast's Chris Stachiw and film critic Trevor Gumbel talk all about another Seagal VOD joint that manages to actually be halfway entertaining: The Perfect Weapon. Starring Johnny Messner as the lead, Seagal plays opposite him as a Big Brother-esque villain who uses Messner to his own murderous ends.

On Seagal is on iTunes, Google Play, and all podcatcher apps; leave a review! If you want to find more episodes, head on over to onseagal dot com. Follow Chris on Twitter @casualty_chris, Trevor @caseneuromancer, and the podcast @onseagal.

Episode Transcript

(00:29):
Hello, and welcome to the OnSagal Podcast, the podcast about all Things
Stephen Sagal. I am your host, Trevor Gumble, and with me,
as always is my lovely co host, Chris Statue. So, Trevor,
I just want to get this outof the way right now, because it's
it's been a while since we've recorded. Some things have happened in our world
since we recorded, and I don'twant to get too political on this podcast,

(00:50):
but of course not. I feellike it goes without saying. Um,
Stephen Sagal has become increasingly more problematic. Oh yes, yes, last
month, given the Russian invasion ofUkraine by Steven Seagal's pal, Vladimir Putin,
where he has a dual citizenship.Now do I know Stephen Seagal's opinion
on the Ukrainian War, the Russianthe unnecessary Russian invasion of Ukraine? Do

(01:15):
I know his opinion any more thanyou do? No, but I can
probably guess what it might be.I'm not going to say what I think
it is, but let's just putit this way. Um. Do I
wish we weren't talking about Steven Seagal, No, but we have to.
Now really divorce the man from theprojects. Yeah, because because war was

(01:36):
sexual assault and everything else, whichis awful, and now it's double awful,
triple awful, compounded awful because he'sbeen putin. You know, official,
what if Vladimir Putin had the perfectweapon? That's a good, good
point and a great segue to ourfilm tonight into a movie featuring Steven Seagal
and Johnny Messner once again. Soyeah, on this episode, Yeah,

(02:00):
on this episode of the show we'regonna be talking about is the Perfect Weapon
from twenty sixteen, a film thatis not rated because it probably oh wait,
no, it didn't come out intheaters because it is a streaming only
red box. Together, we arerebuilding the world. The director sees all
your hard work and punish anyone whothreatens the state or its citizens. I

(02:22):
feel like a machine. For thepast two years, I can't remember,

(02:44):
model and confusing. I have toknow more. You spent too much time,
too much effort, Too many liveswere lost to get this thing.
In order. We need somebody thatcan successfully take out the next outcomes of
Condor is the best make him aperfect weapon? Yeah, and the last

(03:10):
thing a professional killer needs is feelings. And they knew that my death would
cause last human part of you,so they could use you. They were
wrong. When I raise your hand, you go up. When I raise

(03:38):
you down, get down. WhenI lift you up, you go up.
All of these things manipulates. Weneed to take out the director uprising
his arm. You do this andyou come back to me. I'm not

(04:05):
only liven. What is this filmabout? You ask? Well? This

(04:36):
film is about Johnny Messner, whoplays Agent forty three from Hitman, a
generic Hitman character who h fails toeliminate his target and then he gets brought
in for reconditioning and he does notwant to be reconditioned. And the villain
of the movie is played by StevenSeagal, who's in the movie for about
five minutes. But I gotta tellyou he's not terrible in this This movie

(04:59):
is not terrible. It's actually thismovie is actually pretty fun. It's it's
watchable. It's not it's not bad. I mean, I don't know if
it's not bad. It's bad,it's but it's it's a level of enjoyable
bad. It's you can't enjoy it'sit feels inspired by things that I have
seen before. It feels a littlethis is going to be really stretching it,

(05:19):
but it's kind of dread inspired,this kind of dystopian universe where you've
got these kind of like the lawis you know, the law is the
law, and and then it's alittle equilibrium. It's a I don't know,
it's just inspired by much better things, to the point where you're just
trying to convince yourself that there's somethingvaluable here when it's essentially just things copped

(05:41):
from other movies and TV shows thatrepurposed for a Steven Seagal six million dollars
film that made fifteen thousand dollars inthe box office because oh, by the
way, it actually was released inreally by the way, Johnny Messner's character
name is Condor. Yeah, doyou know who his character was originally going
to be played? But no,tell me Dolph Lundgren. That would have
taken this movie to a whole newfucking level. If it had been Dolph

(06:02):
Lundgren, this movie would have probablygotten a theatrical release that almost definitely,
if not a pretty high profile DVDrelease or straight to video release. Yeah.
Probably because Dolph Lundgren has done hisfair share of DTV. But the
difference is his are usually pretty goodquality. Like he doesn't have asked any
ever, he never have to askas his films. Well, again,

(06:25):
the issue that we keep running intowith these Seagal movies is more a it's
more of an issue of his involvementis so minimal. Yeah, and it's
like, to call this a StevenSeagal movie is as a little unfair to
Johnny Mester. It's actually really unfairto Johnny Mester, because this is a
Johnny Messner movie. Messner is nota bad act No he isn't. No,

(06:45):
he's not. He's very He's avery very capable action star about that.
He has the look, but he'sokay. He's like you know,
Jeff Ahey, I mean, therehave to be guys making these level of
movies. There just have to belike anything else. Well, I mean,
I think like back in the nineties, they were trying to get every
guy to be the next action hero. They would have at least I mean,
you know, like they would havethe at least one theatrical release where

(07:09):
they tried to sell the person asthis next action hero. And usually it
wouldn't go very well. And Igo to what I'm thinking of. When
I heard The Perfect Weapon, Ithought of the Jeff Speakman film from like
ninety two ninety three, and theywere trying to like market him as like
the next big thing, and itjust didn't work right. And they've done
that a few times. Yeah,Um, like they um, the late

(07:30):
Brandon Lee, his first like majorsolo action film was hard. Uh what
was it? Rapid Fire? Um? I mean he'd done films before,
Like he did a showdown Little Tokyo, one of my favorite action film by
the way, with our favorite DolphFunderent in it. Yeah, but they
tried, Uh, they were pushinghim as like, you know, rapid
Fire, you know, Brandon Leethis and he was good. He was

(07:54):
really good. Yeah. So Imean it's really hard to kind of sell
an action euro but you gotta.I don't think the studios really really understand
that there needs to be more thanjust decent looking, muscular and physical.
There's got to be some kind ofpersonality in it. And Johnny Mester has
a little bit there. He's gota little personality in the film. I

(08:15):
mean he's playing basically a programmable assassin. Yeah. Like I said, it's
there's like there's shades of other things, Like there's shades of Blade Runner,
you know, with his like youknow, his like memory is all fucked
up and it needs like it's wipedand it's not wiped, and he's having
these like memories that are pushing throughthrough his like wiped memory. It's got
a little giant emnic in there.Yeah, there's it's it's inspired by a

(08:37):
lot of stuff because again it's takingplace in this dystopian future where the kind
of the state government controls everything.It's very talentarian and Steven Sigal is the
is the is the leader, thedirect director, like he's his his They
have him projected on big ass fuckingbuildings. Yeah, and they he has
like news there's news reports, likesmiling and like talking about it and basically

(09:01):
he's like peaks Steven Seagal like dyinghis hair, Like I don't notice he
looks he just he looks it likehe looks like he's he's not giving up
his age yet. I don't thinkhe's ever going to do that. Sure,
but like at this point it's noticeable. Now, Yeah, it's it
is. It's noticeable. Yeah,and again it's also really noticeable when you

(09:22):
don't do anything in the movie.I mean, but you know what,
for not doing much, I thoughthe was actually not bad performance wise.
His character was actually kind of interestingto watch for the few times a few
minutes that he's in the film.Um, he's doing his he's doing a
semi he's doing a semi uh streetaccent. I guess yeah, boy,

(09:43):
I don't get that accent. Manlet men, Like, what the fuck
is this ship? Dude? Healways does it. It's like, you're
not from the streets, Dude,You're from like Detroit, You're from Lansing,
motherfucker Lansing, Michigan. And thething about it ain't no hood claimed
and you ain't no street claiming youSegal, Like it's just not happening.

(10:03):
And the weird thing about his characteris like he's not entirely unlikable. No,
he's not a villain. That's like, Oh, I hate this guy.
I hope he gets fucking killed.There's something kind of calm cool about
him, Like he knows everything.He's the smart he is the smartest guy
in the room. Of course,that's why they wanted that's why Segal took
the role, right exactly. Um, but it's but you know, we've

(10:26):
we've kind of had this discussion oncebefore, and you know, I want
to bring it up again, likethis is not a Seagal No, this
is very much Johnny Messner's Johnny Messner'sshow. Um, which is the problem
because as good as Johnny Mesner mightbe, he's he's not even as good
as Seagal. Is that that that'sa that's fair? I mean, I
know he's he's not a bad actor. He's just not an interesting actor.

(10:50):
He's not an actor. But Idon't know if he's never been given anything
to work with. But he wasin Cosmic Sin, he was in Beyond
the Law, in a bunch ofthese movies that go straight to streaming.
There's nothing wrong with that, Butthat's not I just I have a hard
time understanding the appeal of an actionstar who's not charismatic. I agree with

(11:15):
that. I can agree with that. When one of your villains is more
charismatic than you are, that's aproblem. Well, I mean, I
agree that villains are more charismatics thanhe is in the film, and there
are a couple of different ones.But I think he's just enough to get
people to rent it. He's thebare minimum basically. But I think he's

(11:37):
got potential, is what I'm tryingto say. If he's given a good
enough script where he can show offhis charm, he can like, Okay
in this film, I can kindof understand why he's low on charisma because
he's trying to play this emotionless hitman that's being controlled and programmed, so
he has to play it's somewhat kindof kind of stilted, kind of void

(12:01):
of personality. Right, But whatwas the film we first saw him in?
It was that Oh shit? Wasthat what we called General Commander?
General Commander? Um? One whereI just said the title like two seconds
ago, didn't I I don't know. I think you did um where he's
like on the law? Yeah?Is that? Wasn't that the one with
DMX? Yeah? Yeah? Um? He was decent on that one.

(12:24):
I thought he was. He waspretty good in that one. Uh he's
he's no, he's Johnny Messer,uh, you know, because he does
what he's supposed to do, andhe does it adequately. At least in
this film. He goes to killa rival politician and he doesn't kill the
woman who was also sent to killthe right right, and and and that's

(12:45):
when they're like, oh, youknow you went against your programming, we
have to take you in for reprogramming. And he's like, I don't need
to be reprob That's this is alsoa common plot thing where the assassin won't
kill the target and now they're afterthe assassin. Uh. There's a movie
called uh what was Memory coming outwith Liam Neeson where he plays an assassin

(13:05):
that won't kill this child and howthey come after him. But the problem
is he's losing his memory. Um, so he decides he wants to take
he wants to take down the wholesystem, so the whole like government controlled,
Sigal controlled thing, because everybody isbeing watched everywhere at every time.

(13:26):
That's that's what's happening. And he'sintroduced in the film, um killing Killing,
Like was it they were meeting upat three guys at this like casino
or a club or something. Becauseyou know, there has to be tits
in a Cigal film. Yeah,boy doesn't there. It's again, there's
a lot of things in this whatwe've seen like before, We've seen these

(13:46):
like kind of things before. Buthere's something I wanted to point out to
you, and I don't know ifI don't know, if you saw this,
Okay, this is going to coloryour opinion of our dear friend,
mister Johnny Messner. Johnny Messner,while doing press for Anaconda Hunt for the
Blood or Kid, a classic,yeah of classic film, he said this,
you see in Hollywood, we've lostthe real man. They're gone.

(14:09):
They're so pretty that you know,if I was drunk and I turned around,
if I was drunk and I turnedBrad Pitt around, I might fuck
him. My philosophy is that inHollywood right now, we've got Orlando Bloom
I swear he's got a pussy.I swear he's got a pussy. Either
that or he's a hermaphrodite. It'sone of the two. And he's like
the big thing. So we've gotBrad Pitt, who I love because Brad

(14:30):
can play a lot of roles.He's like one of the few. But
all the Harrison Fords and Bruce Willis, Bruce Willis Is, all the guys
that were men are gone. It'sbeen seven years since we had any real
men in Hollywood. And why didhe say this, I don't know.
Whenever two thousand and four. Hemay have changed his views, but if
he hasn't it was a different time. Then If he hasn't that it was

(14:52):
a different time, then Trevor,No, I'm serious. If he hasn't
changed his views from then fuck him. You know you know, Trevor,
you know the film Irreversible? Right, I still haven't watched it. Vincent
Castle, Monica Bellucci, Right,yeah, I know which what you're talking
about, but I still haven't asked. They asked him about it, Oh,
Vincent, Vincent Castle, Monica Belluccilooked very hot, looked like a

(15:13):
very hot couple. Did you seethe movie that they did? This is
Johnny Messner's actual response. Are youprepared for this? He answers, Irreversible?
Yeah, I jerked off to thatlike ten times. Okay, gentleman.
That is a film with a tenminute long rape scene. Yeah,
and I think that's the scene he'stalking about. I don't assume anything,

(15:33):
but boy, I don't know whatelse hee would have been. Jerking off
to that scene is the reason Istill haven't seen Irreversible because seen that.
Most people don't rewatch that movie.For him, yeah, me and rape
scenes can't do it. I'm sorry. And on his Wikipedia. First off,
he has a tattoo of Monica Bellucci, and on his Wikipedia it seems

(15:54):
very much like someone in his teamhas been writing on It says that he
starred in Anaconda Hunt for the BloodOrchid as ex military man Bill Johnson,
and this is written on his thing. It was the actor's first leading role
in a mainstream movie, and itgave him a chance to impress the audience
with a perfect musculature. The portrayalgained him the status of a sex symbol.
Yeah. I don't I don't understandwhat's going on with these folks,

(16:17):
man, because it seems like we'reall of a sudden talking about movies with
people that I really don't want totalk. Okay, right now, Okay,
here's the thing. Right now.I looked up his Twitter and it
looks like he has he tweeted inabout two years. But now I'm looking
at his Instagram. Oh boy,nothing too controversial yet. Um yeah,

(16:37):
it just looks like a typical,typical, typical Twitter. He's got two
daughters, it looks like, anda wife. Let's see. He seems
to be more on the spiritual side. Maybe he's mellowed out in eighteen years.
But bro, like, trying tobe controversial in Hollywood like that is
pretty cringe. It looks like he'slike very into psychedelics and spirituality. From

(16:59):
what I'm seeing, maybe he's mellowedout, But boy, I mean,
what a fucking weird thing to say. Right, well, that's probably why
he hasn't gone very far in thebusiness. You don't say shit like that
and expect to get work. Oh, I'm Bruce Willis's best friend. That's
also a thing he said, Like, I'm Bruce and I are best buddies.
Like, yeah, you're not No, no, no, You're not
diehard Bruce Willis's best friend. You'refucking DTV Bruce Willis's best Yeah, your

(17:21):
DTV. Bruce Willis not giving ashit sin cosmic sin or he will original
cosmic sin. Bruce Willis, Bruce, I have a DTV coming out every
week in this year, probably Willis. Dude. It's you know what's wild
about Bruce Willis. It's like BruceWillis took the mantle from Seagal. Right,

(17:41):
No, because I still kind oflike Bruce Willis as a person,
even though I've heard many times he'skind of a dick. But not as
much as Seagal. Sure, Imean you can go there, you can,
you can do the whole Kevin Smith'scop out experience of what you believe
about Bruce Willis, which I totallybelieve it happens. Sure, but let's
also not sit here and pretend likeKevin Smith doesn't have a big personality on

(18:03):
his own. No, I'm not, I know. But my point is,
like I always take that story witha grain assault because it's well Kevin
Smith, Well, he usually tellsa story in front of people, and
he probably exaggerates for the crowd.Oh I don't think he No, no,
no, I don't think he's exaggerating. I think he's telling the true
performing. I just I just thinkthat when you have a big personality like

(18:26):
Kevin Smith does, I don't seehow your personality is gonna not clash with
people if you have a big personality. Because I don't know what Bruce Willis
is like as a person, butI know what Kevin Smith is like as
a person, as do you.I don't have to guess what Kevin Smith
is like. Kevin Smith doesn't hidewho he is. No, he's pretty
much what you see is what youget right, which might lead me to
believe some people are just not gonnajibe with that. They're not gonna jibe

(18:48):
with that at all. And no, because Bruce willis like he's seen heart
knit fucking Harrison Ford's story. Youremember that. It's like that. I
don't remember Hollywood Homicide where Josh JoshHartnett after the movie was like this sucked.
Harrison Ford was awful to work with. I never want to work with
him. I never want to worklike, never meet your heroes, like
go look it up. Like itwas like there was this whole thing after

(19:11):
the fact, it was like neverheroes. Harrison was still me sure,
sure, but who's still working nothartn It technically both of them. Yeah,
but you don't see hartn It veryoften anymore. Yeah, but I
think that seems like a that seemslike a personal choice. Um, here's
the thing. I didn't see HollywoodHouse Side. I might seen clips or
whatever, but I can see becauseOkay, the thing back to Kevin Smith.

(19:33):
Kevin Smith is very boisterous, veryout there, very happy, very
he's you know, he's very andsome people just are kind of taken aback
and kind of you know, putoff by that because Bruce Willis is kind
of the opposite from what I fromwhat I can understand, I'm not gonna
say I know what Bruce Willis islike, but I'm just gonna say for
what I from what I can gather, he's very kind of chill to himself,

(19:59):
you know, low key. Hejust wants to sit down, just
wants to do his work and youknow, not be like, you know,
all over the place about it.And I think that definitely does clash.
Yeah. Yeah, that's why Isay, like, I take it
with a grain of salt, becauseif it were if it were someone like
normal telling that story, it's onething. But it's like it's fucking Kevin
Smith. Well, I mean,and plus pop Out was his worst film

(20:19):
of Kevin Smith's career. That thatmovie was bad. But then again,
he didn't write it, he justdirected it. And I don't think he's
ever going to do that again.And to your point, Josh Hartnett has
been working every year for like thelast two twenty years. Yeah, I
just well, he was another hewas another it guy that kind of where
Yeah in the late nineties, rememberbecause he did the faculty he did uh,

(20:41):
he did Um, he did Halloweenh two, he did the Virgin
Suicides, Thirty Days of Night,thirty Days of Nights Harbor. That was
like the big that was the bigone. Oh God, Pearl Harbor forty
days and forty nights is pretty good. Yeah, except for the rape scene.
Well yeah, but it's but thepoint, like it makes sense on
that move. No it doesn't.It's a fucking rape scene. But that's

(21:03):
the point. That's like that itmakes sense in the context of the movie.
But it's played form. No,No, it's played for comedy,
and I don't like that. MaybeI haven't seen it in a long time.
Then she fucking rapes him sleeping actuallyhappened, He'll sleep. Yes,
this the story is based off of, Um, what the fuck the dude?
What the hell? The guy's namethe lead singer of a band.

(21:25):
He wrote the story about his ownexperiences, and now I can't fucking remember
that actually happened. Okay, WellI still okay that move. Okay,
Like like I said earlier, rapein film, even if it's played for
comedy, I don't find it funny. Sure, I get it, because
okay, I know we're getting wayoff topic, but I gotta just get

(21:45):
this off my fucking chest. HorribleBosses, Horror Bosses too, in particular,
well what it was like free associationhere, No, no, no,
listen understand, Like you said,Horrible Bosses. That's I don't know
you have you seen the first HorribleBosses? Yeah? Okay, So you
know in the film, Jennifer Anderstonwants to fuck Charlie Day, right,

(22:08):
okay. In the second film,Charlie Day at the end is in a
coma and he wakes it from thecoma and he finds out that while he
was in the coma, Jennifer Anderstonfucked him or something to that effect,
and that's played for a laugh.Yeah, that's in bad taste, and
that's not funny. That never isfunny. Bad movie came out in twenty
fourteen. Yeah, and it wasbad. That first one was good.

(22:29):
Though I liked the first one,the second one sucked. I actually I
don't even remember. The only thingI remember for the first one is that
Joan Grufford scene where he's like,yeah, oh yeah, where's it's like,
come to like come to get theguy's piss on him? Yeah,
and he's act. You know,they thought he was a hit man.
He's actually a guy who pisses onpeople. Pisses on people because he brings
it. He brings that sheet intothere, and they think, oh my
god, we don't mean us.He's like, gentlemen, what do you

(22:52):
think I do? Yeah, thefirst one was funny. The first one
was very funny, except for KevinSpacey in it. Um right. I
think Josh Josh Hartnett, for me, is one of those actors when I
think about him, it's like heshould never have been like that. He
seems like always his success seems tobe dramatic, and they like for some
reason, they were like, he'snot like a dramatic actor. It was

(23:12):
like, no, this hematic jobs. I mean had full You ever see
that show? He was pretty good? I have not? Is it that
was Showtime? Right? He wasgood on Penny. He was on good
on Penny, dreadful good in ThirtyDays of Night too. Dirty Night is
a good film. I haven't seenit in a long time now. Doesn't
also have Ben Foster, another goodactor that we don't hear about much.
Yeah. It also has Danny Hustonand Mark is it Huston or Houston?

(23:37):
I don't know. I call himHuston, correct, I call him Houston.
He was in Wolverine, isn't he? Well? Can Josh Hardnet was
in Black Hawk Down. I neversaw that his good movie. That's okay.
His first movie was The Faculty,though that was the first I thought
was his first movie. What camefirst the same year, the same same
year, ninety I gotta say Decembertwenty fifth of ninety eight, and so

(23:57):
Halloween H two came. But HalloweenH two, dude, oh man,
I fucking I love The Faculty soso much. And Williamson there's a reason
it's a good movie. So well, don't mention Kevin Williamson to some people,
because some people fucking hate Kevin Williamson'swriting. I don't know. I
like, here's the thing is thatKevin Williamson, like, you couldn't really

(24:18):
do horror back in the late ninetieswithout Kevin Williamson being involved. Somehow he
was even involved in H two,even though he didn't write it right.
But from what I have heard recentlyis that H two feels like Scream it
does. Halloween H two isn't bad. I also what I've heard, but
the ending is a total fucking copout. Well, No, actually,

(24:38):
no, the ending isn't a copout until Resurrection. I was about to
say, from what I've heard,Resurrection seems to be the problem. Yeah,
because the ending of Halloween h twowas fine until Resurrection came along and
said, Nope, that's not whathappened. I've never seen I know you
what you did last summer. Butthat's also written by Kevin Williamson. No,
that's a good film. I like, I knew what you did.
That The sequel was terrible, butI like the first one. On full

(25:00):
first one all right? Um,he also wrote, Oh god, what
else did you write? He wroteScream? He wrote Scream two. He
didn't write Scream three. That wasAaron Kruger teaching Missus Tingle. Oh yeah,
that was not very well received.But I thought it was all right.
I thought was it wasn't bad.Yes, he did write Screw four.
Um, he didn't do Scream five. No, but Scream fives.
Here's my problem with Scream five.I think I'm not blamed. This isn't

(25:22):
the movie's fault by any means.I think it was my expectations that weren't
that that I got disappointed, Andthat's why I was kind of disappointed by
Scream five because of my expectations.Nothing that fucking expectations and my expectations were
the same. You getting disappointed thatMatthew Lillard's not in it is not something
to be actually disappointed about. Heis, actually, he is actually in

(25:45):
it. I know, And sowas fucking Ryan Johnson, and so were
a bunch of people in that onescene. Bro, we haven't mentioned the
best part of this movie. Vernonfucking Wells. Thank you steals the fucking
movie complete, thank you, right, Like, you could just watch that
scene, like, just go VernonWells. Vernon Wells steals every fucking movie

(26:06):
he's at because Vernon Wells is thefucking man. I love Vernon Wells to
an insane degree. Let off somesteam, Bennett, Come on, Bennett,
that's putty. God. Vernon Wells, I'm pretty sure walked onto set
onto the set of this movie,looked around and said, boy, this
is it's just a bullshit, butI'm giving it my all, Like and

(26:29):
boy, fuck man. When heshowed up, I could think was like,
why is this movie just not JohnnyMesner fucking trying to fight Vernon Wells
the entire movie because Vernon Wells istoo good for this, but yet he's
in this movie. Yeah, sportinghis like wacky ass David s Pumpkin's hair.
But god, damn Vernon Wells.Just when I saw his name in

(26:52):
the credits, I'm like, yes, I forgot until he showed up and
then I was like, oh,right, Vernon Wells is in this movie.
No, No, Vernon Wells wasthe villain, like we've kind of
been quoting in Commando. In Commandohe was. He was in The Road
Warrior. Right, I've never seenMad Max, but I know he's in
Uh, he was in The RoadWarre. He was a weird science.
Weird science. He played basically thesame character and weird science and interspace.

(27:15):
He did a comedy called Shrimp onthe Barbie back in like the early nineties,
which was pretty bad. That's themovie that's so bad that the director
wanted to be was credited as AlanSmithy. That's how bad the movie is.
That it's that good. Well,it's got cheech marin in it,
and Vernon Wells plays the asshole boyfriendof the love interest, um, who's

(27:36):
like this big rugby star. Whatthe fuck ever? You have to watch
it? It's it's it's bad,sounds sounds like shit, it is pretty
bad. But Vernon Wells is anAustralian actor um very well known for action,
mostly well known for action, knownfor Commando and Mad Max too that
that's but usually much and he alwaysusually plays the villain. He's never really
a hero because he plays such afucking great villain. He's got that great

(28:00):
Australian accident and that voice where he'sjust intimidating as fuck. I mean,
and he's got a good look.He's got a good face. He's got
a great, great look. Imean, he looks like a badass.
Like you look at this guy andyou don't fuck with it. And you
know, he really steals the scenesthat he's in in Commandos. One of
course he does. But he's oneof those villains that's like you feel like

(28:22):
he's evenly matched against Arnold, andthat's not a frequent like even as good
as all those Arnold movies are,which the Arnold movies are the action movies
that we hold every action movie upagainst pretty much at least eighties, Vernon
Wells is like one of the fewvillains that Arnold actually is, Like you
could believably see Arnold losing to thisguy well, because Bennett is just insane.

(28:47):
He's fucking huge too, just likeArnold. He's massive. Yeah,
but the most important thing is he'scrazy sure, and he just I think
he loves pain. Well, here'sthe thing. That's the thing about Arnold,
that's how he defeasts. He playsto his fetish. He plays that
what licking the knife and telling him, you know, look how it looks
with U turn my face looks withU turn it. Come on, Bennett,

(29:08):
let's potty. He's almost playing itlike a sexual fetish. And it
shows you how crazy Bennett is becausehe's really into knife play apparently, and
it's great. Vernon Wells just playsit's so crazy, it's awesome, and
I really I mean, of courseArnold was going to defeat him, but
if anybody was going to defeat Arnold, it would have been Vernon Wells because
he's just And then you get tothis movie and Vernon Wells is just leaning

(29:32):
into the craziness. Yeah, hisscene isn't long. He's playing a torturer
basically because in this scene, JohnnyMessner is hanging up because they've caught him.
And now they're trying to get him. What are they trying to get
him to do? That's trying toget information out of him. Yeah,
because they're trying to stop the thecoup and take over and destruction of the

(29:53):
of the system. Obviously, hefails because Johnny Mesner gets away. Of
course he has to get it awayand he you know, I mean Johnny,
that's scene. The way that hekills him is pretty great. But
also it's like you could see itcoming because that's kind of there's this twist
in the movie where Condor aka JohnnyMessner's handler played like you mentioned by Richard

(30:15):
Tyson, he turns on's character. Kind of it feel like that it
was like a double turn because it'sthere's like a twister. There's the similarly
to these other goddamn fucking Sigall movies, there's like a massive twist at the
end. Well, I mean,Richard Tyson in the beginning, you could
see that he was going to turnOn Sigal. It's yeah, it's it's

(30:36):
pretty because he's pretty mubvious writing.Yeah, he's pretty much Johnny Mesner's friend
in the film, Like they're friends, they're not just you know, co
workers. Right, and you know, Richard Tyson plays a character that tries
to get him back into this thingand whatever. Um likes Richard Tyson.
Have we talked about him much.No, he's a really I like Richard
Tyson. He's one of those greatcharacter actors that's again usually plays Allen.

(31:00):
I mean, he's most well knownfor Back to Arnold Kindergarten cop That's where
I first saw him, Kindergarten Cop. Um. He's been in other things.
He was in Uh, he wasin something about Mary Um. He's
been in uh what else he's been. He was in Battlefield Earth Me myself
and Irene as well. Oh hewasn't that. He's been has been in
a lot of stuff, you know. Like you said, yeah, he's

(31:22):
prolific. He's one of oh thatguy actors. Um. But yeah,
he's he's he's very competent, veryyou know, consistently good actor. He
was in Not Another Not Another movie. Oh, oh my god, wasn't
that with Chevy Chase. Yeah,Vinnie Jones, Michael Madsen and Burt Reynolds
I think great, the late greatBurt Burt Reynolds. Due. I mean
they were trying to spoof the spoofgenre in that one Seltzer brother fuck them,

(31:47):
Oh my god. Okay, don'tget me you know, if you
get me started on those two idiots, this podcast is going to go for
a while. What's what's funny aboutthese movies? Like these kinds of movies,
you know, those free Brick Selzermovies are like these Seagal movies.
Are they making these movies? Like? Who is this? Like? I
still wonder who believe it or nota perfect weapon for Chris Chris believe it
or not? There are men andwomen out there with very low standards for

(32:12):
what they will find entertaining. No. I get that, I fully understand
that. But my question is adifferent one, like are they really making
enough money to continue making these movies? There must be enough Siagal fans out
there who are die hard will givethem the money that Romanian Seagal fans,
Italian Siagal fans, people in Europe. I don't know if they not invited,

(32:32):
Well, they are providing whoever itis. They're providing the money because
they want more Siagal, and they'retelling these people I want more Sigal.
I wonder if it's like a WWESaudi Arabia thing. Do you know what
I'm talking about? WWE is gettingpaid like a couple billion dollars a year
by the country of Saudi Arabia toput on shows exclusively in Jetta. Oh

(32:52):
right, right, right, Iheard about that, right. But the
crazy thing is like the Saudi ArabianI guess the government, which would be
like the princes or whatever. Iguess they don't. They're not like constant
with WWE's current wrestlers. So theywere asking, like in twenty twenty,
they were like, can we havea match with like Yokozuna an Ultimate Warrior

(33:13):
that's like yo, dog. Thosefuckers have been dead for like law by
the way, PostScript Rest in Peace, Scott Hall. Oh right, yeah,
yeah, fucking they'll ask for ScottHall next. You know. That's
but that's like, but I thinkthat might be what we're looking at here.
It's like people like Eastern European oligarchswho are just yeah, taking money
from one hand and moving it toanother, right, because they're expecting they're

(33:34):
expecting under siege Seagal, but they'regetting straight to video Sagal. Yeah,
but they're not expecting undersiege Sagal anymore. That's that's that's that's an unreasonable assumption
because it's twenty sixteen. With thismovie, he must have built up a
shitload of goodwill with whoever is stillyou know, renting these things. I'm
telling you there is there is somethinggoing on with some Eastern European um production

(33:58):
companies or European money or something.And look like like you said, it's
not it's not unbelievable and it's noteven unrealistic. Like I think that's probably
what this is, because what's theother what's the other explanation? They spent
six million dollars on this movie andthey brought in at the box office fifteen
thousand dollars. Yeah, that's apretty big loss. I mean, um,

(34:20):
or we could do the u ABowl explanation. I just like to
work. No, the tax creditsthing. Tax credits. That's how Uvie
Bowl kept getting money to make filmseven though every one of his films were
failing. That's why he kept gettingmoney to do theatrical release films is because
of this German tax credit. SoI mean maybe it's maybe it's a producer's
situation. Did you ever notice howin this movie they have Segal essentially portraying

(34:45):
like a Vladimir putinisque character who theytry to humanize. Yeah, they did,
because he isn't completely dislikable, right, but like he almost comes up
sympathetic a totalitarian. Yeah, hestill isn't totalitarian. Yeah, what were
you wanting to talk about? Theending? Oh my god, this is
the folks movie we've seen with Yes, but you know how we always talked

(35:07):
about Steven Seagal never loses NFL.He can't be hit, he can't be
I was shocked. No, no, no, no, no, no,
no no. He died in thatmovie that we talked to him.
I remember he got like nuked fromspace, remember what I'm talking about.
They like found him on the radarand they like blew him up from space.
That may have been General Commander evenit was like the end of the
movie and he like met up withthis woman and they blew up both of

(35:29):
them right at the end of themovie. It's slipped my mind. I
know he died an executive decision.Um, But in this film, Scott
Mesner defeats Steven Seagal. But Trevordid Air quotes, Folks, this is
a vision. This is not avisual medium, but this is not a
medium. I thought, my tone, No, no, it's fine,
but I wanted to make sure thatif you haven't seen this movie, you
understand what okay about saying okay,Johnny Mesner quote unquote defeats Steven Seagal.

(35:52):
But then at the end we findout Nope, that was his twin and
Steven Seagal is still in power andhis twin was like a shield for him
or a decoy. Yeah, decoy. Yeah. And you think that in
the end of Johnny Mesmer and hisTeam one, that the authoritarianism have been
taken down. They're free again.Then Seagal comes out talks to his brother

(36:15):
who's a decoy. Sorry, andhe says something like let's get to work,
and it basically sequel bates us.Yeah, oh my god. And
then there's that CGI shot of Segalin the jet at the end. Yeah,
oh my god, his face.It was what was that other movie?
There was another movie we watched,do you remember where they did the
same thing. They had like avisor flip up and there was like Segal's

(36:36):
face just like inside of the visor. Do you remember that? Oh my
god? Which one was that?That may have bet General Commander as well.
General Commander is I was right.I went and look, General Commander
is the one where a drone strikekills him and his Filipino lover at the
end of the film. Yeah,right, yeah, I just says his
Filipino. No, I'm laughing atSegal having a Filipino lover. I'm laughing
at Sigal having a lover. That'sjust me. Filipino love her lover,

(37:00):
of all Filipino men and women.Steven Seagal, I just love lump.
I don't know it tastes good.Well, I love Yeah. Steven Seagal's
frame of reference for anything is alwaysjust I love their food. I love
the Russian people. I shiploads ofPorsche. Like, what the fuck carrot
eating monster you? Yeah, sowe find out he then he prepares to

(37:23):
strike back at the at the atthe Condor Renegades. Renegade rebels. Yeah,
and they set up a sequel,which we know is never going to
happen. Did you did you?The best part of the credits the fake
rage against the machine. Oh god, yes, It's like the most generic,

(37:45):
fucking, just fucking rage against theplagiarism is like Zach Deal le Rocca
and and uh tom Morello. TomMorello should fucking sue dude, that that
is it was like such an obviousto get to the machine room. They
were going for like this matrix styleand credits yea, and they failed miserably.

(38:06):
Him facing that jet is just wewere saying at the beginning that you
enjoyed this film, but we've stillbeen We've just been kind of shitting on
it the whole time. Yeah,but that's because it's so bad. It's
tall, it's enjoyable. Yeah,I don't know if it's table. Well,
I will talk about the best partof this movie. Sa Sasha Jackson.

(38:27):
Oh she the love interest. Ohmy god, wasn't she And of
course turns on him because she wasworking for Sick all the whole fucking time.
Yes, And then they get intothis big there's this big fight in
the garage. Oh, there's acharacter, a guy character who his specialty
is throwing knives. Yeah, andhow does he die a knife? Doesn't
he buy a knife? There's abunch of no name henchman in the film

(38:49):
who are supposed to be like,you know, specialty killers or whatever,
and he just dispatches them easily,and then we find out, Yeah,
she turns on him. Turns outshe was working for them the whole all
time, which is anybody this weirddouble twist where it's like, no,
no, you don't know the truthcondor it turns out that everything you know
is a lie and they've been workingagainst you the entire time, and even

(39:12):
though I'm a bad guy, I'mstill not as bad as them. Yeah,
it's that's kind of a total recallrip off. Yeah, that's that's
that's really what it felt like,was like it was like again, copying
from other things. When he shother and killed her, I half effected
to say, considered that the divorceme too. It's it's it was,
It's not I'm not saying it's lazy. It's just the things that inspired it

(39:36):
are are obvious very well and it'sobvious that she was going to turn on
him because her character not very wellwritten. Um no, the whole movie
is not very No, she andshe's not a I think she's a perfectly
fine actress. But yeah, shewas all right. She was she was
all right. I mean she's notgiven anything to do now, she's just
given. She just is the typicaluh um love and quote unquote love interest

(40:00):
of the character who wants him totake her away from all this to save
her and protect her from the badguys. And of course there's a sex
scene and no nudity though thankfully almostbut thankfully she's not bad looking. No,
of course she's gorgeous. But myissue is a different one, like
can you imagine like this, likelike nudity in this movie, like does

(40:22):
it doesn't need it? Like doesit add anything? So you we're talking
about not liking rape scenes. Idon't like nudity scenes in movies that don't
serve a purpose because it's like that'smost movies though I know, like um,
like Swordfish was that necessary? No, it was just halle Berry getting
paid more money to show her titsfor one second. I mean it's fine.

(40:43):
I mean, hey or more,that's fine, strip tease. Gemmi
Moore wanted to show off the workshe got done. It's not like anybody.
It's not like anybody was forcing himto do it, right, No,
nobody was forcing him to do it. Nudity in film sometimes just doesn't
make sense. It does it doesn'tlike and if if there had been some
in this movie with Sasha Jackson's character, I would have been like, boy,
that's just gratuitous. Well you wouldcome on any Seagal film. There's

(41:07):
never been a Seagal film where thenu nunity was introgral to the plot,
That's what. But that's what I'msaying, Like, I genuinely don't think
that I've seen a Seagal movie yetwhere the nudity has been Yeah, but
strip club scenes are always pretty prevalentin these straight to video films. But
yeah, but a strip club sceneis something different than what we're talking.
We're talking about Steven Seagal on anothercharacter fucking getting it on in the bed,

(41:29):
and you're just like, why doit? Well, it's like the
last movie we talked about where theyhad that love seeing with Steven Seagal,
that and that woman who you couldtell it was just Steven Seagal's idea because
Steven Seagal wanted to feel manly ordesirable. And I'm like, this is
gratuitous as shit. I think anyI think any nudity in any of these
kinds of movies is gratuitous because okay, name one movie where the nudity was

(41:51):
introgral to the plot. I'm nottrying to challenge you love just I think
any time you do it in alove scene that makes sense. But outside
of that, it can be itcan be used to like reinforce how terrible
a villain is by I don't know. But can it also be said that
love scenes sometimes are gratuitous and notintro to the plot. Yeah, they're
just there to add to the movie. Sure, But like there are times

(42:13):
where love scenes are necessary or notnecessarily necessary but make sense to the plot.
But yeah, sometimes it's just gratuitousjust to show some skin because that's
what gets asses and seats. Can'twe really even complain anymore in these movies
about the female characters not being givenanything to do and because written, because
they've all been poorly written, becauseit's par for the course for seagal film.

(42:36):
Because Seagal doesn't want to be upstagedby a woman, does he.
I guess that must be it.I don't know if that's what it is,
but you would fucking have a hardtime convincing me that's that's not what
it is. Because he doesn't wantto be upstaged by male actors. I
can't imagine he'd want to be upstagedby female actors. Given the way that
he treats his female co stars.His ego is larger than it's massive ego.

(42:58):
It's well, we're never going toget the Cigal comeback. Let's just
say it right now. It's nevergonna happen at this point. No,
he has lost so much goodwill inthe industry. No one, no one
on the top tier of Hollywood makingthe millions of dollars films, are even
going to touch him unless it's forlike satirical purposes, unless they're gonna,

(43:19):
like, you know, take ashit on him, or that mountain dew
commercial. You've never seen that commercial? I probably have. Just remind me
there's this. Okay, it's amountain dew commercial. This guy's in the
in the in the process of beingrobs he was the gal walks in to
get his mountain dew, and thecharacters, the robbers, end up like
taking themselves out unintentionally because Cigal likeopens the do It's slapstick basically like Cigal

(43:42):
opens the soda door and hits oneof the robbers shit like that. Um.
And at the end, the owneris thankful that he took him out
and stevensicgal there's what he's talked about. Um, And stevens Sagal is like,
I bet you were an autograph,don't you. He thinks that's why
he's excited and happy, and hegoes, yeah, I can't believe it's
me either. It's it's weird.It's weird because Seagal was in a Robert
Rodriguez film. Yes, and heplayed a henchman. Oh he died in

(44:07):
that one. Yeah, but he'sthe villain in that movie. Yeah.
I don't know why he agreed toit. Maybe because of Robert Rodriguez and
he's he actually has clout. Um, he just wanted to work with an
ax Ones as opposed to Keony Waxman. With Keony Waxman. He's working with
Keoni Waxman again on another film,The Tip of the Spear and pre production.
It's about drug cartels and the borderin Arizona. Doesn't that sound like

(44:29):
something you want to see Steven Seagaltackle border issue in this country? Yeah,
because that's the guy we want.That's the one we got, that's
the guy we want to that's theguy we want protecting our fucking borders.
Um, ponytail or no ponytail forthe perfect weapon. Okay, Um,
I'm gonna okay, this is gonnasound weird. I don't know if you
can accept this as a rating.Half a ponytail because it swings, it

(44:53):
swings back and forth from good badto bad bad, and like half of
it's good bad, half of itsbad at bad. So half a half
a half a ponytail. Yeah,I can I can see what you're getting
at. Yeah, there's definitely somesome things to enjoy. The Vernon Wells
stuff is fun. The stuff withSteven Seagal is not bad. Like you
said, he's you know again,he's capable. Humanizing a totalitarian dictator is

(45:15):
not exactly you know, not agood look. But hey whatever, whatever,
fine, it's your movie, dowhat you want. And Johnny Messner
is okay. But yeah, it'sit's since an hour and a half and
it feels like two hours, andit feels cheap. It did feel cheap,
but it didn't feel like two hoursto me. It went pretty.

(45:37):
It went pretty okay. It itwent pretty sift, swiftly. It didn't
it didn't feel like it was dragging. I didn't sit there think, oh
my god, when this is?When this is? When is this going
to end? I was, youknow, I didn't mind it. It
went by pretty nicely, so itwent down easy, like a nice spoonful
of diamond tap. And that bandthat did the song at the end of
the movie is the director's band,Army of prim Is. Of course it

(46:00):
is doing the song the Perfect Weapon. Oh my god. Yep. Someone
on IMDb said the cinematic equivalent ofmalware or viruses, and I I would
say that, Yeah. I meanagain when we talk about these like shovelware
movies. I think I mentioned iton an episode before where it's like,
this is the film equivalent of shovelwaresoftware where it's a trojan horse. Yeah,

(46:22):
it's free pack in AOL software.Like, this is the movie you
would get for free. This isone of the ways this one who least
those milk Creak or whatever would shoveonto a ten pack DVD set in a
five dollar bin. Well, that'swhat I was about to say, Like,
this is not the kind of moviethat's sold on its own, No,
not at all at all. Yeah, No, this is this is

(46:42):
something you have to like. Theonly way to buy this film you like,
is other movies. Yeah, it'swith this other film you don't like,
but this is your only option becauseit's not available anywhere else exactly.
That's your option exactly. Yeah,and that for me, and that,
for me is like a pretty goodway of thinking about a lot of these
movies. Frankly, they've you knowthat. The one thing I kind of

(47:02):
always talk about when we when wedo this show is like, did this
movie justify its existence? And no, I don't think so. No.
I mean, the stuff with VernonWells is fun and all, but but
is it really good enough to likewatch this movie again? No, No,
not at all. It's it's it'sit's vapor Well. You could tell

(47:23):
because while we were talking about it, I forgot a lot about the film,
and I watched it only a weekago. It went one in the
in one year and out the thingI remember. I mean, that's the
other problem with these movies, though, is they are starting to run together.
Honest to god, dude, thesemovies are starting to run together.
I mean again, you know,some of these plots are essentially the same

(47:44):
That Cartel's movie was very much likethat other movie which I don't even remember
its name anymore. Remember we talkedabout it last week, is because we
couldn't remember if we'd watch it,but done. That's what it was.
Yeah, because we were talking abouthow we can't remember if we watched it
for the show yet, like becausewe were scheduling in the next show.
You said, no, we hadn'twatched that yet. We watched this one,
not that one, and then youconfused it because they were both the

(48:04):
same fucking movie. Basically, Cartelsand End of a Gun are the Florian
Persic junior films where he he's thevillain or I guess, the villain in
one and not the villain in theother. Like, the only Seagal film
that's been the slightly memorable is uhthe one in the in the hotel where
they're protecting the Uh. The that'sCartels, the one with George Saint George,
Saint Pierre. Yeah, that onewas actually pretty good. I like

(48:28):
Cartels. That was that was decent. But that's the only one that I
can Yeah, that's the only oneI could really say with any confidence that
yeah, I'd watch that again otherthan his other than his nineties rah it's
a fancy word, so yeah,you know, but I will tell you
because this is you know, we'reonto an old Seagal film on the next
episode and the next episode we're talkingabout the glimmer Man. To those he

(48:52):
pursued, he was known only asthe Glimmerman. They'd see nothing but shut
then a glimmer Then he's always followedhis bold path and worked alone until now,

(49:13):
mister love Beads, You're gonna haveto seek high enlightenment somewhere else.
They don't see eye to eye.This guy's weird up to gun, I
can't fight. It's not the timeI want to hear that. So we
man there. I forgot to tellme he can't fight. So it gives
my religion. I'm a bud andI'm SI. They use different methods.
One's why I should cry, becauselike it cleanses us. So if I

(49:35):
need a cleansing, I have abrand muffin. But on this case,
ray that we hired men find thiskiller so I don't have to be with
your crazy ass much mon opposites todo attract tease a little country. I'm
gonna be rocking along. Why don'twe just get you some red meats in
the cape and you can fly aroundand sit and stop all the cross take

(49:55):
your little sensitive ponytail and your littlesissy beads and get here. Morter Brothers
Presents, Steven Seagal, I havesomething like a completely clear up to that
bruise on your forehead, A bruisonKeenan Ivory ways Am to what's what?
A whole? The Do you knowhim? Black? You learn well?

(50:17):
Grasshopper the Bloomerman. Oh with KeenanIvory Wayans. I'm sure they got along
on sets. Yeah, boy,I'm sure they did. I'm excited for
that because I have seen The Glimmerman, Jonathan Glimmerman, John Glimmerman, Stevens

(50:40):
Steven Seagal in a role you wouldn'tbelieve a Jewish police officer Jonathan. No,
he's Buddhist, isn't he isn't he? Bit? But it would be
funny if his character was named JonathanGlimmerman salone exactly. I would watch that
fucking movie. Give me that,I would watch. I would watch the
shit out of that movie. Yeah, shaloon, do you son of a

(51:00):
bitch? Yeah, that's I think. The Glimmerman is the movie where he's
like, I don't use guns anymorefor a while, which you know.
Yeah, it's a film where hekind of it's kind of slight action comedy,
like it's more action. Yeah,it's close to a comedic film than
you'll see, so it I'll everdo, like a full feature linked film.

(51:22):
Yeah, yeah, because you don'thire Keenan Ivory Wains for an action
film and not expect some comedic thefunny. Yeah, the funny because Keena
Iverwains is hilarious. Yeah. Ohyeah. And and I don't know if
I read this, but I havea feeling that they fucking hated each other
off set. Wow, like we'llhave to Yeah, I don't. I

(51:44):
don't know. I've only ever seenthe movie. I haven't dug into the
info about it, but maybe it'llpresent I think Steven I think, I
think Stephen Tablowski has some stories aboutmaking the film. I don't remember.
I've only seen The Glimmerman once.I'm excited to rewatch it. It's i've
seen, I've seen parts of it. It's late, it's late early Segal.
Yeah, but I hear it's likeone of the better late Seagal films.

(52:05):
There's like three of those. There'slike The Glimmerman fired down below and
executive not even not even executive toSue. So anyways, Trevor, where
could people find you when you're nothere? You can find me on Twitter
at bad Vertigo, even though rightnow Twitter is a bad place because it's
festering with toxic people, but italways now it is, Oh yeah,

(52:28):
isn't it always? Though? Yes, you can find me at Instagram with
the same bad Vertigo And that's aboutit. Where can they find you?
Chris C stashu dot com. That'smy link tree, Go there, cstac
h aw dot com. That's whereyou can find all the stuff that I
work on. And yeah, that'sit. As for this show on segal
dot com rss feed, that's whereyou would go to listen to this show.

(52:49):
We're on Facebook, but we justpost the plodcast there. This kind
of a little side project that we'redoing just so you know, entertain ourselves
as the world comes apart with StevenSeagal movies. So if you're enjoying us,
give of you on iTunes. Buthey, even if you don't,
we're gonna keep doing it, Soget in, motherfuckers.