November 18, 2022 • 50 mins
Steven Seagal is one of the biggest action stars of the '90s, starring in some of the biggest action films of the decade. He ended up dropping off the radar completely in the early 2000s, being relegated to the Walmart bargain bins and truck stop DVD corners. Mainstream action fans all but forget his talents, but no longer.
The Kulturecast's Chris Stachiw and film critic Trevor Gumbel continue their jaunt through the works of Seagal with Executive Decision, one of the few films that barely feature our main man. Even without Seagal, it's one of the finest "Die Hard on a" movies there is.
On Seagal is on iTunes, Google Play, and all podcatcher apps; leave a review! If you want to find more episodes, head on over to onseagal dot com. Follow Chris on Twitter @casualty_chris, Trevor @caseneuromancer, and the podcast @onseagal.
The Kulturecast's Chris Stachiw and film critic Trevor Gumbel continue their jaunt through the works of Seagal with Executive Decision, one of the few films that barely feature our main man. Even without Seagal, it's one of the finest "Die Hard on a" movies there is.
On Seagal is on iTunes, Google Play, and all podcatcher apps; leave a review! If you want to find more episodes, head on over to onseagal dot com. Follow Chris on Twitter @casualty_chris, Trevor @caseneuromancer, and the podcast @onseagal.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:29):
Hello everyone, and welcome to yetanother episode of Onsagal, the only podcast
that exists, all about our friend. Well it's not our friend. Probably
wouldn't be our friends after hearing this, No, he would Steven Seagal,
the Man, the myth, theRussian citizen, Stephen Seagal. Yeah.
So on this episode of the show, I'm joined once again, as always
by my good friend. He isthe co host of this show, Man
(00:52):
about Town, the big dog himself. This is his yard and you are
not going to come and eat fromhis bowl, mister Trevor Gumbelow. That's
a that's an interesting intro. Manabout Town. I do. I do
occasionally put on the ritz, right, like taco Yeah, like taco.
I do dress like a million dollarsTrooper. I'm trying mighty hard to be
like Gary Cooper. Are you tryingto have a first act plot twist in
(01:19):
your movie? I am not,sadly, but you know what does executive
decision? Excuse me, sir,May I help you? Sir in an
age? Excuse me, sir,may I help you? When terrorism knows
no boundaries and the level of threatI have a message for the American President
(01:44):
knows no limits. I am incontrol of like three four three, sir,
I don't think this is about hostages. What are you talking about?
A shipment of the nerve talks andDC five was hijacked. What are you
saying nerve gases on board? Yes, sir him they plan to use the
DC five in the airplane together todetonate here over Washington. When global response
(02:05):
is routine, London is demanding immediateaction. There's a hatch on the belly
of the seven forty seven near thenose. We could dock there. I
know you wrote the book on assaultinghijacked aircraft, but this is five miles
above the earth. I don't thinkwe have any other options, and advanced
technology double seven can accomplish miracles.What are you doing up here? Who
the hell else is going to dowith you? Opening the other act a
(02:31):
life or death decision. Help isa good movie on its flight. For
four hundred hostages in a plane,keep it going, or forty millions of
willions on the ground. You canforget Washington. There's enough nervation here to
wipe out half the eastern seaport.Will come down to a choice between the
unthinkable, the Pentagon and he's shresseddown and the impossible reach our air space
(02:55):
in eighty five minuts. Hatch gotme closed down planes, order the A
fourteens to intercept the seven forty seven. Good Russell, I'm losing to draw
the airplane. Halle Berry, JohnLeeguis on movie and Steven Seagal get your
brothers, invites you and I'm reallygoing to shoot this plane town, aren't
we It's June late. They've alreadycrossed the line to fasten your seatbelts.
(03:23):
This is directly from the president himself. Everybody, are you with your words?
That's to cut the plan executive decision, which is what we're talking about
on this episode. Because yes,ladies and gentlemen, you may have heard
(03:44):
of this movie before. But Iwould go out on a limb and say
that this might be the best moviewe've talked about on this show. Oh
but m I know, I likethe average films a lot. This Sky
this is better, This is like, Okay, this is the best.
Okay, I'm just going to sayit now. This is the best die
Hard on a movie other than dieHard. Okay, Well, I mean
(04:05):
I still think the Underseiege films area little better than this, but this
is still a great night. I'msure I've said what I said. I
just this movie is well written.You don't think so, like again,
Friends with Richard, under Siege twoaside, Like this movie is an actual
movie though, But I'm not sayingit's not well written. I'm just saying
for entertainment value, I think underseagefilms are just a smidge better. That's
(04:29):
all I'm saying. There's more,there's more bombast in those movies, for
sure. I'm not saying this isn'ta great This is a quieter movie than
under very well done film. Itis a very well done film. It
doesn't rely as much on gunfire andexplosions and shit, it's very tense.
It doesn't even rely on Steven's agoal. Oh yeah, you'll see after
that. But it's kind of brillianthow they do it, although they kind
(04:53):
of spoil it in the trailer,so that well, they spoil it in
the trailer only if you know thatthat's the scene and that's what happens the
scene. They spoil it in thetrailer with hindsight, you know, again,
watch again watching the movie in ninetyfive when it came out, or
ninety six when it came out,and also with hindsight and the ability to
read the reviews online, people wereshocked by the twist I mean and the
(05:15):
twist of this movie. I wouldsay the twist in this movie is is
pretty interesting because the twist of thismovie is Steven Seagal the hero nine times
out of ten in these movies,Yeah, just dies. Well, they
kind of pull it. They pullit Drew Barrymore slash Janet Lee thing where
you think they're going to be themain star of the film and they're killed
off in the first act. Youknow, it's well, come on,
(05:36):
you have to admit they kind ofpromoted it as a Steven Seagal film,
kind of like they promoted Scream asDrew Barrymore is the star or Psycho as
Janet Lee was the star of thefilm. They kind of support your expectation
that in that regard. No,I would I would agree. And what's
funny is like this movie, Ithink this movie does a poor job in
the way that Scream doesn't. Thismovie doesn't have Seagal in the poster,
(05:59):
which I felt like was a missedopportunity to really help not sell the movie.
But Sell the plot twist. Yeah, yeah, I think so too.
I don't know, did you?Did you see though, there is
an alternate version of the poster withSeagal's giant orange pumpkinhead floating in the distance.
Well, yeah, it's basically inthe same poster, except behind Kurt
Russell's head is Steven Seagal's face rightthere. So if you look at the
(06:21):
poster, now there's a spot whereit says Kurt Russell executive decision, and
above that is some text in thisversion of the poster that someone made on
the internet, I would assume orSeagal made it himself. It's Kurt Russell,
who again his face is done inthis kind of stylized color of the
poster, because the poster's main colorsare black, very orange the person and
(06:44):
again this is edited and put togetherin a studio somewhere in Hollywood by a
marketing team. The version of theposter that has Seagal's head on it is
made by someone on the internet,and it looks like it but they're attempting
to replicate this kind of orange stylizedlook of the Kurt Russell head and instead
you literally have Steven Seagal's fat,bloated face, because it's not even Seagal
(07:06):
of this time in place. Thisis still peak Seagal. It's Seagal of
like now or like maybe six yearsago, that bloated pumpkinhead floating in the
kind of disembodied in kind of likethe four you know, the background while
Kurt Russell's faces much though that youwonder if they're trying to respect Seagal or
(07:27):
insult Seagal with that poster. ButI will say, whoever put that poster
together, good on you for doingwhat they should have done with this movie.
To begin with. They should havehad Segal. They frankly should have
had Segal front and center on theposter. Well, I think that's right.
I think. I mean, you'reif you're going to use Seagal to
try to sell your film, butthey're not use the trailer trailer again.
(07:49):
The question I have for you is, like Psycho, this movie Scream,
they all do the same thing.They kill a well known established actor in
the first Scream. It's ten minutesPsycho, it's the first forty five.
This movie, it's the first thirty. What is like you said, are
how do you sell your movie withoutdisappointing the audience in that the movie they
(08:13):
expected that they were coming to seeis not the movie they're getting. And
scream, Oh, Drew Barrymore isin this movie must be Drew Barrymore in
this movie Seagal must be a Seagalmovie. Here's what you do. Here's
what you do to not disappoint theaudience that came for the actor. You
put another actor of equal regard orhigher as the second lead, so that
when that character dies, you stillhave Kurt Russell to carry the film.
(08:35):
Agreed, which I think to thisfilm success, to Scream success with Nev
Campbell, to Psycho's success with literallythat into this film is exceptionally well cast.
This one has a terrific gust.And that's the and that's the problem
with this movie. This movie istoo good to be on this show.
This is a real like, thisis a well made actor. But we
didn't. We didn't. We didn'tcreate this podcast just to talk about the
(08:58):
shitty Segal. No. No,but that's actually it's it's a it's a
different issue than that. This filmsays. I believe, this is my
belief here with this movie, we'regonna put Stevens to goal in this movie
as a as a teaser, asa as a spoiler, as a plot
twist. But then we're actually goingto write a good action movie that people
don't seem to give a shit aboutdoing with Seagal. Segal wishes he was
(09:20):
in this movie longer. That's howgood this movie is. Do you think
they killed them off because they areafraid to kind of ask for script changes
they kept them longer? I wonder, I genuinely wonder, because again,
that's that's kind of the big questionhere that I have for this is is
the decision to kill Segal in thefirst act of this movie a decision that
they would have made regardless of whoit was or the fact that it's Segal.
(09:41):
Did that motivate them to get ridof him? I don't know.
I would assume whoever it was wasalways going to get killed off. But
at the same time, like yousaid, it's a known thing people in
the industry talk. At this point, people he's been working in the industry
for like eight years. At thispoint, people know that he's a pain
in the ass to work with.At this point, people know he wants
to change people. At this pointpeople know he might take over the entire
(10:03):
film. That's I think that's whatthey were afraid of. They wanted what
they wanted to do. They did. They did something I think very kind
of impressive. They got the Siagalthey wanted without having to do with the
Ciagal. They didn't want the Siagal, they didn't even need. They figure,
if we get rid of him inthe first third, we don't worry
about this motherfucker trying to change ourscript because he has nothing to do with
it anymore. Right, And thescript and the script they wrote with him
(10:24):
in it, the parts of thescript I have him in it are not
are pretty good, are really wellwritten. I thought they don't give him
much to do, but they don'tneed to. But he's actually there's a
but he has a He has aauthority and a and a kind of He
gives a good performance as the character, better than better than you know he
should have. I mean better thana dessert. I mean it was a
(10:45):
throwaway character of a special ops leader, you know, trying to in taking
his team into But that's the funnyfirst, that's the funny thing about this
movie. Though it's a Stephen Seagalmovie where Steven Seagal acts like, you
know, is Steven a goal wherehe accidentally dies and all the other characters
are like, I know, butlike but you know what I mean,
Like this movie is set up tobe a Steven Seagal movie where you know
(11:07):
that everything's going to be fine becauseSeagal saves the day, and then all
of a sudden, Seagal is deadand you have literally the other dudes who
are without their leader now and aguy who's just a desk jockey. He's
just a desk consultant for the Armyintelligence now yeah Oliver Platt as well.
Yeah, so two desk jockeys andthen a bunch of essentially like these are
(11:28):
the followers, not the lecial ops, yeah, special assassin not assassins,
but a special Forces team. Andit's I like this idea of like,
oh no, what do we donow that the like are you know,
it's essentially the question like who servesGotham City Whence Batman is dead? It's
that question, right, who's goingto step up when you're special forces leader
who's amazing at everything because he's Seagal? What happens when he dies? And
(11:52):
it's like, you guys have tostep up to the plate and figure out
a way to solve this massive puzzle, because this movie ends up being a
puzzle when they're on the plane,like a massive kind of escape room almost.
They set it up brilliantly. Thecharacter, Like God, the first
scene, the very first scene,you see it's not Kurt Russell, it's
Siagall. Yep, it's Seagall andhis band of of of Sigus Navy Seal
(12:13):
special Forces or whatever they're they're infiltratingthis this mansion looking for these chemical weapons,
just to find out they're gone,that they've been stolen, and they're
acting on information from Kurt Russell's characterexactly. And and then you know,
stevens All kind of has a smallkind of vendetta against Kurt Russell fir giving
him the bad informations, a vendettaagainst whoever did it right, because he
(12:37):
loses, he loses one of hisagents in the process. They're too late,
and he's like, well there,he doesn't believe they were too late.
He believes it was bad information.So he's like, well, you
got my men killed. I'll neverforgive you for that. And it's like
all right whatever, Sorry, Yeah, I mean yeah, And this nerve
gas is apparently so deadly that onedrop of it could kill higher room,
(13:00):
a room of people. It's kindof it kind of it's kind of like
The Rock I was about to say, it's it's that kind of nerve agent
that it does exist in reality,but it would not be this easy to
get, No, and it wouldbe a much would be a much bigger
deal if it got out, Likeyou know what I mean, Like this
is this is like shit you don'tmess around with. Yeah, I mean,
like I said, it's it's verymuch kind of This does have a
(13:24):
lot of similarities to The Rock Assibilarious Air Force one too. Yeah,
Nevis desk Jockey has to become thehero when the when the main guy gets
taken out, you know, inthe Rockets Michael b In this, it's
Steven Seagal. Yeah, but there'slot is very similar. Um, there's
a lot of a lot Delta forcein this with the airplane and the hijackers.
I love that. Ask you aquestion? Can I ask you a
(13:46):
question? Though? Could this moviebe made today? Exact same plot,
exact same villain, is the exactsame end game? I don't think this
movie could be made after Night aftertwo thousand and one, do you That's
That's what I'm asking because the mainvillain of these films, they pretty much
say they're Muslim, these are Muslimterrorists. I don't have a problem with
that. It's the fact that hein the film you see him practicing praying
(14:09):
on you know, doing his prayer, which is you know, I don't
have anything against that, but it'sit's almost like the film isss saying,
you see someone do that, becareful, and they try they try to
diffuse it by the one one ofhis tentiment saying this is not what Allah
intended, this is not you knowwhat, which I felt was I like
that twist. Yeah, But it'salmost like the filmmakers are trying to say,
(14:31):
no, no, no, thisis not what we mean. Right
We're Yeah, I get it,But wasn't too little too late in that
regard? I don't know. Couldthey make this movie today the way they
made it? Then again, Idon't I think he would have like you
know, activist groups up in arms, which again, like I understand,
I mean, after nine to eleven, the Muslim community just became this the
(14:52):
super villain to people, not allpeople. I'm just saying that. Unfortunately
muslim saying came not all people.Well, it just seems like after nine
eleven, Muslims became public enemy numberone two to a lot of people.
Like if you're in an airport andyou see and someone you know, if
you saw a Muslim sitting in yoursame same you know air you know,
(15:13):
the same same not the same aisle, but the same you know where you
wait for the plane. Oh yeah, like the in the seat in seating
area, Yeah, yeah, inthe in the you know what would you
think? You know what goes throughyour head? Right? And I'm with
you, like I get it.You know. That's the thing. There
was a little, i will say, the whole thing with that, Like
I don't know. It was asan adult now who lived through nine to
(15:35):
eleven and seeing this movie, itwas a it's skewed a little close.
It was a little like we're gonnablow up Washington, d C. And
again the landing, the crashing theplane into the Pentagon is really like the
lease of their worries. Yeah,because then the nerve agent gets into the
air and it kills you know,oh my god, it will kill Hamstern
Seaboard. Love that phrase, loveEastern Seaboard as a phrase, and then
(15:58):
they have the graphic like the gasspreading and it's like it'll kick out.
That was That was. That wasthe heavily used trope in the nineties where
they showed graphic of a red thingcovering like an outbreak. Have you seen
outbreak? No, but I've seenan evolution which does the same thing.
Well outbreak. They had this mapof like this is what happens to day
one or week one, and thenyou just see that and eventually you see
(16:18):
the red cover up the entire mapof you by day thirty two. The
words taken over. It's their wayof saying this is like heavy shit.
Yeah, I just have to sayEastern Seaboard and I know you're talking serious.
You don't need to show it.Yeah, but I again, I
think you would. I think youwould ruffle some feathers. I don't think
they would outright say like these areMuslim characters, this is not Islam.
(16:38):
They would be like there, theymight be a radical group, and they
are. I mean again, theyare a radical group in this movie.
They're fucking terrorists, like they flatup stay there there Islam, they flat
out say that they're an extremist organizationlike there You know again, extremist organizations
don't represent the populace, they representa part of it. So if people
(17:00):
are getting upset about this movie orwere or could get upset about Muslims being
portrayed as terrorists, well I feellike more less, less offensive, more
lazy at this point is the wayI would look at it, because I'm
worried much more about domestic terrorists atthis point, and I am than I
am someone who's in the Middle East. But yeah, I'm not worried about
(17:22):
a Muslim walking into my building.I'm more worried about an extremist like Christian
or whatever, wrecking in my fuckingbuilding because there are more of them here
than there are. You know,there are more of those folks possible.
So yeah, I would say,not to sound controversial, I would say
the US breeds more terrorists than anyother fucking country in the well through our
actions and our words, because exactlybut drones. Drone strikes in the Middle
(17:47):
East against civilians does nothing but createmore terrorists because they are now mad at
US for killing their family, andthe quickest way to radicalize someone is by
killing their family by accident, whichis what they talk about that in this
movie. They talk about this ideaof like where is the line of radicalization?
And are people like because you see, like you mentioned some of David
(18:08):
Suchette, who is the fact thathe's the villain in this movie fucking cracks
me up to no end because DavidSuchette or David Suchet does not look Middle
Eastern at all. He his dadis his dad was Lithuanian Jewish and his
(18:30):
mom was his mom was was wasAnglican, but Russian Jewish on her he
was born in London. But hedoesn't he you know what he's famous.
You know what he's famous for.Right, Yeah, he doesn't look like
Pero in this film. But Ialso contend he doesn't look like Pero when
he doesn't have a mustache. Anyway, if you look at pictures to him
(18:51):
on like Google, I would saythey added brown makeup to his face.
But I agree he doesn't. That'swhat I'm saying, Like he does not,
he doesn't look Middle Eastern. Butyou know what, I don't fucking
care because David suchet is amazing inthis movie, he's a prey, such
a good villain, he's such asyeah, he's a nasty villain, and
(19:11):
he's one of those villains I reallyappreciate. I really appreciate the screenwriters in
this film, Jim Thompson and JohnThompson, Jim and John Thomas, because
a lot of the times you havethe villain go Okay, well it's over,
I'm dead, and in this moviehe goes, nah, he's fucking
shoots the pilots, and I'm like, give the villain. Don't give the
villain any redeemable qualities. He needsto be a battye to the end.
(19:34):
He needs to figure out how touse his last breath to continue his his
work, his belief, his ratis zelotry. He needs to do it
to the end. He bullshits thegovernment. They're going to give him what
he wants, but he's still gonnablow up the plane anyway, right.
He was mean, he was gonnahe never intended to survive. No,
no, but they but even hisown terrorist. But he don't know that.
(19:59):
No, thanks you for didn't knowthat. Because Hens Room. When
they find out what his plan,he's like no, They're like, no,
you cannot do this. This wedidn't sign up, We didn't sign
up for this. This is notwhat Ala intended or whatever he said.
And you know, like, yeah, you're right. He fucking shoots the
pilots. Yeah I like that,Like he really liked he There is nothing
redeemable about Najie Hassan film. Youwant this fucker to die and you want
(20:22):
to fucking Dike quick. Yeah,oh yeah. I was soup like like
by the end of this movie,I was like cheering with the movie.
Granted, this is the first timeI'd ever seen this movie. I've never
seen it. I'd seen it probablywhen it first came to video in like
ninety seven or whatever, but afterthat kind of never I kind of saw
clips of it from the night Butthis is the first time I've watched it
in full in a long time.This movie is legit in my top ten
(20:45):
action movies of all time. Now, the amount of like ramping up tension
that this movie does throughout it doesn'tlike, this movie doesn't stop ramping up
the tension until the essentially last twominutes, because it goes from bad add
to worse to unbelievably worse to likejust so insane that by the end of
it you're just like exhausted with therest of the cast of the movie.
(21:07):
Well, they do something in thisfilm that I thought was kind of brilliant.
Um, the heroes don't meet thevillains until like near the end of
the film. That's when they meetthe villains the movie. That's that's the
only time they get to meet.That's it, because they do something really
good in the film where they keepthem on the under of the plane and
they have them be silent and veryvery quiet, and it's kind of brilliant
(21:30):
how they like. That kind ofhelps ramp up the tension because you don't
want the terrorists having any hint becausetheir whole plan hinges on them being very
secretive and doing something. They don'tjust want to hop on the plane and
take out the terrorists. They knowwhat they need to do. They know
there has to be something done beforethey can do this. They need to
diffuse the bomb. They need tomake sure that it's under control because they
(21:53):
know if they try to take outthe terrorists first hand. Well, there's
a twist that the terrorists want tokill the people. Yeah, well they
don't want to have Okay, Well, and another thing is they don't want
to kill the terrorists because later theyfind out that none of the terrorists or
henchmen have the detonator. They havea they have a mole basically on the
plant plant. Yeah, a planton the plane with the remote to be
(22:17):
inconspicuous and not you know. Andwhen they find that, I'm like,
oh shit, plans change and theshadow into They foreshadow it in the movie
and you don't even realize it whenthe woman is sitting down and the guy's
like, stupid woman and she's like, I'm so sorry. Like they're planting
those seeds early on. It's yeah, it's this movie like and I don't
want to speak super hyperbolically, butthis is how you write an action movie.
(22:37):
Well, the fact remains is thatthis is not a film where it's
just gunfire and go in, youknow, balls out, just come in
shooting, you know. And it'sno, it's very meticulous, you know,
because I mean it's it's like apuzzle they have to put together.
Yeah, of it is. It'sa stuff about this because they know one
(23:00):
move out of place could fuck upthis whole mission and kill everyone on the
plane. This is a stealth actionmovie. It was telling a friend of
mine that he should watch this movie, and I was like, imagine Air
Force One, but like a stealthversion of that, because like air Force
One, I don't know if you'veseen it recently, it's it's a fucking
jingoist nightmare. There is so muchRara America shit, like it's a it's
(23:22):
a lot. It's oh, it'sit's to the poll America. FU.
Yeah, if you made the movietoday, people would think that you were
being satirical in how like we don'trun from terrorists, we don't negotiate,
Like that's okay, whatever, fine, And then he's like, well you
will negotiate with me, and it'slike, oh haha, got him.
(23:42):
The fact remains, though I mentionedAir Force One for this exact reason that
you mentioned in this movie an airForce one, that movie has to take
place on air Force One for anyoneto be able to shoot guns inside of
the airplane, because there's a bigas airplane. Well no, it's actually
a different thing, and they mentionedit in the movie. They go air
Force one is triple reinforced, soyou know, you can't just shoot bullets
(24:06):
out. The bullets ricochet, andin this movie. The moment that the
bullets hit the exterior shell of theplane. Yeah, people get sucked out.
Like that's the end of the movie. Is the tension ramps up with
David Suchet shooting essentially a window thatcauses the entire people to get sucked out.
Yeah, that's his move of desperation. But that alone, like you
(24:27):
said, this stealth aspect of thismovie, the aspect of the movie that
they're having to do everything without forcebecause the moment they use force, it
has to be it. I likethat, and that adds so much tension
to this movie that it be likethis. These like a movie like these
tend to not have I think thefact that, well, here's the characters.
(24:48):
We gotta give it to the characters. Though partially two. I mean,
you know, everything is Karrot Russell'sgreat. He plays this. He
basically is a brains guy who setsup missions. He does do the missions.
He just sets them up and youknow, gives them planning. Doctor
dexter Riley, and that's why theytake him on the plane because they can't
really do it without him. Um, then you have I think it's a
(25:10):
little bit more to it that becauseit's the whole Like steagalls like, I
want you there because last time,well yeah, like he's like, last
time you gave me bad information.I want you to come along. But
Seagall's also the one who is youknow, like, oh, I know
about the seat. Fuck dude,I just want to get this out in
the open. The fucking way theyget on the airplane is that's that's that's
(25:33):
where this that's where this movie started, right, That's what I want to
get you. They bring up Pawn, they bring on the mission. Oliver
Platt replaced. He invents he inventedthis thing where connects to the bottom of
the plane so they can sneak inthrough the bottom without the terrorists knowing.
And if you and originally that wassupposed to be it was originally supposed to
be Oliver Platt would do it andthen he would just leave go back to
(25:55):
the White House. But circumstances change. There's there's one of the one of
them, one of the Special Forcesguys knock something off that and it fucks
up the whole thing. And well, I think that part of the movie
is where I kind of was alittle perturbed. The the Dyson Miles Dyson,
Joe Morton gets paralyzed somehow and he'sblocking. The thing about this movie
(26:18):
is they've created something that's so fuckingoutlandish, and the reason that it's like
they created, I think is alsoso. The reason that a stealth bomber
in F one seventeen has a vacuumhose on top of it is so that
they could correct me if I'm wronghere transfer bomber cruise without the bomber coming
home. So it's like midair refueling. It's like, instead of refueling with
(26:42):
fuel, how do we midair refuelwith I mean, that's that's like to
me, Well, that's that's what. That's what, that's what the initial
reason for inventing this thing, that'swhy our Platt invented it. Yeah,
you know, And but I thinkit's telling you that that is like that
was where they started the script forthis movie. They're like, we have
this great idea for a stealth likehow do we build a movie around a
(27:03):
stealth like a midair stealth mission ofa team getting onto an airplane and we
have this idea of like a stealthbomber going underneath the plane and opening it,
Like, how do we build amovie from that. But man,
I'll tell you what effects are alittle wonky. It's models and it doesn't
look great. But that scene isso good. Well, I mean it
just goes to the pacing of theaction. I mean the performances of Joe
(27:29):
Morton, John Lguizamo. We haven'ttalked about John Leguizama that much, but
he is for all intents and purposes, intents and purposes, he is the
leader of the of the Special Forces. Once Sigal gets taken out, becomes
the film second lead. Kurt Russellis the main lead. Like Guizamo really
fucking steps up to the plate.He is forceful, he is charismatic.
He is great in this movie.I mean, none of the things you
(27:52):
assume when you assume a John Leguizamoroll from the nineties, well you know,
well, people have known John Leguizamoto play like you know, Latino
gangsters or Italian plumbers or cross dressesor cross He was known basically for comedic
roles, you know, as alighthearted This is the first time he has
a couple like smartass lines in thefilm, but mostly he's a guy who
(28:14):
takes action. Yeah. Also,Beaty Wong not known for being an action
star. He's that is Yeah,that surprised me too. It's like Beati
Wong known for being the scientist inJurassic Park, being the psychologist in like
Law and Order and shit, andhe's playing stage actor by the way,
Oh yeah, and he's playing acounter terrorist guy. Yeah. No,
and Whip and Whip Hubily Whip hubWhip Hubil, who doesn't get talked about
(28:37):
enough in my opinion. I mean, he was in Top Gun, he
was in Ruskies, he was species. Yeah, Whip Hubili is a great
guy. I kind of always couldI always kind of. He's with Ris
rick Rossovich. I think they wereboth in Top Gun. He looks very
much like Rick Rossovich. I thinkrich Rosovich and and him were both in
Top Guns. But no, you'reright, like there are a lot of
like character actors in this movie whodon't get enough. I think enough credibly
(29:02):
doesn't do much in the sty No, neither does Beati Wong for that matter.
I mean neither does Andreas Katsulas,who is great, who played the
one armed man in Fugitive. MaryEllen Trayer is in this movie for like
two seconds. Don't they don't theykill her first? She just dies.
Hallie Oh, Hallie Berry's in thismovie. Didn't even mention that, but
halle Berry just finds Mary Ellen Traynerdid. There's one thing they screw up
(29:23):
in this movie. One thing,the whole thing at the end where Kurt
Russell asked her out coffee. Thatwas kind of I thought you were going
to talk to the fact that,like, we didn't need that long of
a flight ending scene where it's likeKurt Russell being actually walked through how to
fly the plane. That I foundthat to be. That didn't bother him.
Act. It was just it wasto set it up. It was
(29:44):
over, it was over overdone.It was like three scenes worth of it,
do you know what I mean?They set it up. They do
set it up in the beginning kindof you kind of know that's what he's
got to deal with at the end. He's taking flying lessons. At the
beginning, the first time you seehim, he's in a plane and his
instructor his face, you know,and instructors like you're ready, you're done.
You know, you don't need anymore. And any person who's seen any
movie like it actually know, okay, this is going to come into play
(30:07):
later right, plant payoff, plantpayoff. Like, if a character is
scared of something at the beginning ofa film, you know that's gonna come
into plays later in the film.I know, I genuinely like, I
really really liked this movie. Andagain, I think it speaks to the
character actors involved. I think itspeaks to again, we didn't really talk
about Seagal, but Seagal is deadin the first fifteen minutes in this I
(30:32):
see that we're talking. They putit this way. Does Seagal ever get
onto the plane? Half of themdoes, sure, but Seagal never even
makes it onto the airplane. Wheretwo thirds of this film this this movie
is two hours long because it takesthirty minutes to get onto the airplane and
they have to kill Steven Seagale.Those thirty minutes. Well, I mean,
Steven Seagale basically knows he's fucked,you know, And there's that line
(30:53):
of the trailer everybody hears we're notgonna make it, you are, and
Seagale basically just gets sucked out ofthe plane dies. Oh it's a which
actually it's a great little Steven Seagalmcquette flying out of the Yeah, that
was funny, like, wow,Stevens a golf him where he dies?
How the hell do they getting todo that? Or him to agree to
that? Yeah, I mean Ido, and said they were going to
(31:15):
bring him back. I mean,that's the thing he's not missed. But
to be fair, But to befair, I will say this much,
I would have liked to have seenhim in the movie. I mean,
twist or not, Like, Iwould have liked to have seen what that
movie with him in it looked like. Maybe maybe it would have been fucking
terrible, right maybe, But thenagain, I think it would just would
have been a power struggle with himand Kurt Russell over what to do.
(31:36):
It would have been constantly like thatcould have been interesting though, that could
be done interestingly, you don't think, but you don't want it like constantly
you know, sure, I meanI agree, I agree with you.
Again, I'm just I'm more speakingto the idea of is is there still
an interesting movie to be mined ifthe movie doesn't necessarily have to have Segal
(31:56):
die? I say, yeah,I mean there's the same time. That's
what makes this movie. So Inever I never think a movie is unsalvageable.
Well, I mean, there aretimes, but I think Seagal,
if he had lived, there mighthave been something good to mine off of
it. Kurt Russell working off ofeach other. But these are two well,
no, I'm not saying alpha males, because Kurt Russell in the film
(32:17):
isn't really alpha mans. No,he's That's the thing that I really like
about this movie is this is thisis the everyman movie that just happens to
have Seagal in it. There's noway Segal could ever be the everyman.
This is the only way you dothis movie is you have Segal either the
villain or he eats shit. Inthe first twenty minutes, I mean,
(32:38):
he does what he does really wellwith the time he's given. Yeah,
he acts like a print to KurtRussell. Well, I mean, but
that's that's his entire character. He'sa believable swat team leader or whatever.
People you know he You're like,oh, yeah, I believe he is
the head guy, the leader ofthis of this you know, stealth mission.
He's an antagonistic dick took her Russell. I mean the scenes with Oliver
(33:01):
Platt and Joe Morton, I thoughtthey went really well. I mean,
Joe Morton. I feel bad forJoe Morton in this movie, the fact
that he just gets laid out forthe Yeah, he's just laying on his
back the entire movie. I mean, I get, I get what they
were going for with him being paralyzedand all that, but it's just it
didn't for me. It didn't addanything like meant increase the stakes of the
(33:22):
movie and up the tension. Really, they could have just kept him a
lot. I mean, he couldhave kept him upright and still have him
work with Oliver Platt to diffuse thebomb. They were leaving the hold of
the plane anyways, nobody leaves thehold until the very end. They would
have needed to be there anyways.He wasn't good to go anywhere. I
mean he would have because we needto have Oliver Platt defuse the bomb.
(33:44):
But he could still could have donethat. I mean, they could have
had something else happened to The onlyidea I think the problem is there is
no other way to get Oliver Plattas the only one diffusing the bomb unless
laying him out. Unless you layhim out, and the part where they're
getting on the plane because there's noother again, nobody dies on the plane.
None of the characters who get ontothe plane die. They all survived.
(34:07):
I was so shocked. And thepassengers, no I'm talking about Kurt
Russell John that was Amobe. Noneof them die. Yeah, you would
have thought, like there have beena couple of casualties, would have thought,
I mean, you would have thoughtthere would only be like two people
left. But they're all again,it's weird. They all survive exactly.
And Okay, I need to mentiona character actor who I really like,
(34:29):
who really is only seen for acouple of times, and that's Richard Real
playing the air fire Marshal Sure sure, Like I really like that he got
his moment like once the like hetakes his shot at the terrorists before the
terrors shoot him back, and hedoesn't die, does he He doesn't die.
No, he doesn't die. Yousee him at the end of the
movie. Yeah. I like howhe has his hero moments in that film,
(34:50):
like when you see him hide thegun, and you don't really see
much of anything after that, Likehe doesn't They don't show him again in
the film until that scene, soyou're wondering what was a point of that,
right, and then it happens becausehe waits until the very right time
to take this fucker out, ortry to at least, because you got
met. He's taken. He takesquite a few gunshots before he dies.
Who the leader? The leader guy? Oh my god. Well that's that's
(35:14):
movie tropes for you. No,Richard real Is talk about a that guy
actor. He's like, He's like, when I think of that guy actors,
he might be. He's a greatthat guy actor, though, he's
a really good one. Jump toconclusions. Matt, it's a Matt that
you with conclusions, Jump to there'sa demist idea I've ever heard. I
do love him in Office Space,I mean I love that movie in general.
(35:37):
There was a show called Grounded forLife in the early two thousands that
he was great and he plays thefather to h to a Donald Logs character
to Donald Loe my god, Yeah, you ever heard of it? Gunded
for Life? No, I mean, I just know Donald Logus. It
was a sitcom. Donald Loge andMegan Price have three kids, and basically
(35:59):
it's an Irish family, well notIrish, you know, no, and
like it's an Irish come from Irish, you know, Irish stock. There's
yeah, but they're not like talking, they're not accents or anything, right,
right, But yeah, like andhe and Richard Real plays the father
hit Donald Loge's father, and he'sreally funny. You should check it out.
It's a good show. It's reallyjust interesting. I mean, I
like Donald Loge. It's not hardto find. It's not hard to find
(36:21):
online. But yeah, Richard reallyis really good. Um he played one
of the villains in Free Willie.Oh my god, Richard really is just
he's very very versatile. Yeah,isn't God. Go look at his IMDb.
Dude, it's like he's worked.He works like ten to twenty times
a year, like a He's anon stop worker and working actor. That's
what he is. And he's nevergotten the recognition he deserves it. He's
(36:43):
a character actor. None of themdo. That's the problem with character actors
is you're so good and often wellmeaning. Only people like Tarantino were the
ones giving you, like the leadrole in the movie. Right. Well,
it's also it kind of goes backto what we were saying about Rick
Rossofitch and Whip Hubii. I meanthey were kind of I wouldn't see their
character actors, but I think theywere just kind of you know, background
action guy. Yeah, if youcan't get this guy, just hired one
(37:07):
of them and they'll do it.Which you In this movie, you get
to see like the nineties the ninetiesMiddle Eastern looking actor lineup of like J
Tavarre and who's the other one.There's that comedian Sean Tobe who plays the
the guy who gives RDJ his armoran iron Man. There's a comedian named
(37:29):
Ahmed Ahmed who was in this filmbefore he became a comedian. I think,
oh, he was in Virtuosity.Oh I didn't know that. Yeah,
but Ahmed Ahmed's in this film.Marla Maples Trump, I did see
that. Uh yeah. The actorthat I was thinking of is Sayed Badreya,
who's in this movie. He's uncredited, but you can see him.
He was also an iron Man.But it's it's just as like who's who
(37:49):
of nineties mid character Yeah, yeah, character actors. And again, like
you know, Sean Tobe obviously wouldgo on to be an iron Man.
So I think that's kind of whateverybody knows him for now. I mean,
you know, but David Suchet isthe let's put it this way David.
David Suchet is the least Middle Easternlooking actor of all the actors in
this He is the is the likehe's like the soul man yeah of action.
(38:12):
Even Andreas Kutsulis looks more Middle Eastern. I mean he's Greek obviously,
so Greek Middle Eastern. In Hollywood, it's all the same to them,
as far as they're concerned. Yeah, as far as they're concerned. And
hey, how about how about J. T. Walsh as the as the
senator who wants to be this uhwho's kind of has this presidential as David
Suchet's white knight. Basically, I'myour white I mean, that's that character.
(38:35):
I mean, this movie even wentas far as to have that character
in this might as well they mightas well have called him Ellis. I
mean that's my point, Like heis the Ellis of That's the thing that
I did like about this movie isitch It like Undersiege one, like Undersiege
two, it wears its inspirations onits sleeve, and like it's obviously die
hard. Yeah, you know,they have the prick who wants to negotiate
(38:57):
with terrorists right end up getting fucked. Yeah. Well he he doesn't realize
he's getting fucked, but the villainis like, you're fit when the time
comes, be ridy. He thinkshe thinks he's being the hero of the
flight by negotiating tarret. He thinkshe's gonna make everyone get on safely,
not knowing that the terrorits has nointention of making this plane hit the ground.
That's the unmost unrealistic part of theentire movies. He shoots him in
(39:19):
the fucking cockpit. That bullet wouldhave flown out the window and killed all
him. That's the most unrealistic partof this entire movie is point blanking JT.
Walsh in the cockpit of the movie. I'm surprised they didn't have Art
Malik in this film. Oh isthat the guy who plays the warden from
The Mummy? No? He playedthe villain in True Lies. Oh?
(39:39):
Oh the guy with the hair?Yeah, k guy who the guy who
had most one of the most absurdbut hilarious death scenes in action movie history.
You'll fire. I mean I'm prettysure that that people who have never
even seen them. I loved likehe's great. That's oh. In True
Life is just a great action film. I'm not with all the anti Muslim
(40:01):
bullshit in that movie. What Imean, I hate to sound like typically
I'm not trying to defend it,but again, it was a different time.
This is the same kind of movielike this is Me. This is
about as indefensible as true lies is. No, it's not defensible. There's
no defense for this. But inmovie doesn't have to your career in it.
That's a downgrade. Though. I'dlove to your career. No,
(40:22):
I love to your career. Whysorry, what what dhill are you talking
about? Your career could have benefitedYou could have laid one of the flight
attendants so she could just get mrkedin the first five minutes of the movie.
I like and trainer. I likedthis movie a lot. Yeah,
we have to. But you canalso recognize it's you can also recognize the
(40:43):
problematic aspects of its well still,it's a very well made film. That's
you know that, because that's thething about nineties action films were notorious for
their jingoistic you know, you know, I'm saying an air Force one dude,
like that is holy shit, man, that movie is I mean,
not I wouldn't say racist, butdefinitely nationalist. Nationalist views of other countries.
(41:12):
It's like it's like in the eighties, we're in every you know,
every Russian. Everything in Russia wasvillains to us. You know, Red
Dawn, the Russians were invading andthey're the villains. Look at look at
pro wrestling in the eighties, man, who are all the villains? Ivankoloff,
Iron, Sheli Volkoff, Iron,Chic. Yeah. Oh yeah,
Oh, I mean if you were, if you were in the you know,
(41:32):
if you live through the eighties,you know what we're talking about,
Like anything Russian is is inherently evil. We're back to that, dude.
We are back to that right now, we kind of I mean you,
I mean people are just like everythingRussian now is is hush hush, even
though most of Russia disagrees with whatPutin is doing. But that's neither here
nor there. We're not getting intopolitics here. Have seen Turbulence not yet
(41:58):
with ray Leiota and Leota and LaurenHolly. Have you seen it? No,
isn't any good. I don't know, I've never seen it. I've
always wanted to watch it. Ikind of have a real soft spot for
movies that take place in airplanes.No, I do I like. I
like like movies that take place inairplanes have a have a kind of interesting
like a thing about him because it'sa closed space. Right, it's there,
(42:21):
there's no right, there's not justrestriction. There are a lot of
restrictions that are put on a moviescript where it's set on an airplane,
singularly that I appreciate when you cando it right. I thought nonstoppably am
NSA was pretty good and that tookplace on an airplane. Never seen it.
It's not bad. You should checkit out. I have not seen
Turbulence. It has a really interestingcast, just people. I love Rayleota
(42:44):
th oh me too. I meanRayleiota is in one of my favorite movies,
Good Fellas. Wanted to be aGangster. Yeah, as far back
as I can remember, I alwayswanted to be a gangster. The way
he talks is so weird. Theway he laughs is so weird. It's
the wanting in the Saint Many Saintsof New Work. He's I haven't seen
it yet, isn't any good?Yeah? He should. I watched the
(43:05):
entire of Sopranos before I watched NewWork. Have you not, dude,
I've been not busy with other things, dude, I've been working. Yeah,
but that was like eight months agowhen you were watching. I will
watch it eventually, you should.Just it's good. It is that it
is that, it is that good. I'm just saying, you know you
were watching it, like you sawhow good it was. I mean you've
heard, you've seen you know,yeah, you appreciate it. Quiet,
(43:28):
I will, I will watch it. I just need to watch the Sopranos
first. It's got great I meangreat acting, great character actors are great.
Writing isn't pretty good, even thoughshe really doesn't do that much.
She's playing the Al character, noteven Al. Though Al does more than
she did. Oh, she doesshe prevenge, she answers, she answers
the phone thing a couple of timesmore than It's about as much as Al
(43:52):
does other than shooting the guy atthe end of the movie. It's not
like Al is doing much. Imean that's the point of the character.
Yeah, but halle Berry can domore. I agree. But this is
halle Berry in the nineties. Imean, this is pref This is halle
Berry not like pre fame. Butthis is not halle Berry of like now
where she's all you know, there'sa Hollywood leading lady. That's fair,
(44:14):
And I think that's the problem.And I think that, honestly is the
problem with the female character in thismovie. And you kind of hit the
nail on the head. Almost doesn'tneed to have like a relationship with Kurt
Russell. Yeah, it's like thatphone they force, it's so tacked on,
like it feels has tacked on asErica Erica Lineac and Steven Seagal and
oh, that is one of theworst worst caught. That's the worst case,
(44:35):
one of the worst cases of ForrestRomantis, I think. And the
thing is, like the problem ishe has had very few, very little
interaction with this character, and suddenlythey want to go out. I mean
to be fair, though if Isaw Kurt Russell, I would want to
go out with him too. Ithink Speed did a pretty decent job about
setting up two characters eventually getting togetherat the end, because there was like
(44:55):
constant, you know, back andforth between them, and you know,
and even admit at the end it'slike relationships based on extreme circus face has
never worked, which is why sheended up with Jason Patrick in the second
one. That's fair, That's fair. Yeah, I guess they didn't put
two and two together that Susan orSeason Hubble is Whip Hubble's sister, and
Season Hubile and Kurt Russell were married. Did you realize that I didn't.
(45:21):
Yeah, he was married before God, yeah, I know, yeah,
he was very he's married. He'smarried to Season Hubile and he in seventy
nine and he divorced her in eightythree. Okay, yeah, is that
weird? I know, like's thatweird confluence? Yeah, Kurt dude,
Kurt Russell, like, in myopinion, like Kurt Russell is the absolute
fucking definition of cool. Like hejust like cool. He seems like,
(45:42):
he seems like, he seems likea cool actor, seems like a cool
dude in general. You know what, though I'm not gonna argue with you
on that one, I can fullyagree because Kurt Russell he exudes cool,
just cool. He's just a coolcool then. You know what Jack Burton,
Yeah, he snakes. I know, he's Jack O'Neill, he's wyatter,
he was Elvis Presley twice. He'sMcCready from the thing. He's just
(46:05):
you cannot tell me. Kurt Russellis he's fucking cool. But he's I
just love him as an actor,and I love that in this movie he's
I wouldn't say playing against type becauseI think Kurt Russell is really excels as
an actor when he plays in everyMan. He's playing yeah, he is
very playing every Man because he doesn'the doesn't do any action until like the
last part of the film, becausebecause for the almost entirety of the film,
(46:27):
he's using more of his brain,yeah, than his it's a stealth
action move. He only picks upa gun, I believe in like the
last fifteen twenty minutes of the filmwhen he kind of goes Rowe when he
feels like he has to do itbecause he has to go up there to
find the mole, and he figuredhe finds out that's not the mole.
And that's a great scene and that'sperfectly written, you know, because he
because it's it's more believable that way, rather than you know, nabbish and
(46:52):
nabbish every Man suddenly becomes action heroyou know in the film, Like that's
not believable because at the end he'sstill the same person he was, right,
He doesn't suddenly become like a pumpedup action star. He's still the
guy. He's just a guy that'sgone through a really fucking hellish situation.
But he's still Kurt Russell's character.He's still the character altogether. He didn't
need to have a he didn't needto have a character arc. He just
(47:14):
needed to be his. He justneeded to be the brains and the charm,
and he was and he and thankfullythey didn't give him like quippy lines
to say in the film. Ithink the thing where they saluted him at
the end of the movie was alittle bit much. Well, I mean,
but I think I think that's moreof a think. Yeah, I
think it just leans too much intothe jingo is bullshit that I again,
(47:36):
like, I had a real hardtime within uh I had I just had
a I had a real hard timewith that Air Force one. And so
I was glad this movie didn't dothat. Trevor Ponytail up for Ponytail down
on executive decision, ponytail up,two ponytails up, all of them.
This, Mike I said, thismight be the best thing we've watched for
this show so far. Debatable,but but I mean, again, if
(47:57):
it's not this, the other twothings we agree on so yeah, again
this. You know, they don'tadvertise Sigale and the on the poster for
this movie. They don't let youknow as an audience member outside of the
trailer that he's in this movie.And when he shows up and he dies
immediately, you understand why they didn'tadvertise him. But I would contend he
should have been the person that theywere advertising as the main character of this
(48:19):
movie. I think still would contendthat. I think we've made the executive
decision to agree on this film.It's a good one. It's a great
one. I'm glad we watched it. Yeah. So, and on the
next episode, we're we're talking aboutThe Asian Connection, where Steven Seagale plays
Gone cern Kiri, which is aterrible name for a character. And frankly,
I'm just gonna say this right nowbefore we even talk about the movie.
(48:40):
The title for this movie sounds atrociousalmost. It almost sounds racist almost,
And it's based on a story byTom Sizemore. Yep, So prepare
yourself to that, ladies and gentlemen. Until then, where can people find
you, Trevor, Oh, Twitterand Instagram, look up bad Vertigo.
You can find me occasionally on MyDear Host podcasts, the Culture Cast,
(49:01):
and where can people find you first? As for me, you can find
me at c stash dot com,CS t ac hiw dot com. That's
my link tree. Go there,you'll find all the stuff that I work
on. As for this show,on sigal dot com is where you can
go to find more about this show. That's the website and we don't post
anywhere else. So there you go. Big. Thanks as always so all
of our listeners, and we'll makesure to catch you on the next episode.
Hello everyone, and welcome to yetanother episode of Onsagal, the only podcast
that exists, all about our friend. Well it's not our friend. Probably
wouldn't be our friends after hearing this, No, he would Steven Seagal,
the Man, the myth, theRussian citizen, Stephen Seagal. Yeah.
So on this episode of the show, I'm joined once again, as always
by my good friend. He isthe co host of this show, Man
(00:52):
about Town, the big dog himself. This is his yard and you are
not going to come and eat fromhis bowl, mister Trevor Gumbelow. That's
a that's an interesting intro. Manabout Town. I do. I do
occasionally put on the ritz, right, like taco Yeah, like taco.
I do dress like a million dollarsTrooper. I'm trying mighty hard to be
like Gary Cooper. Are you tryingto have a first act plot twist in
(01:19):
your movie? I am not,sadly, but you know what does executive
decision? Excuse me, sir,May I help you? Sir in an
age? Excuse me, sir,may I help you? When terrorism knows
no boundaries and the level of threatI have a message for the American President
(01:44):
knows no limits. I am incontrol of like three four three, sir,
I don't think this is about hostages. What are you talking about?
A shipment of the nerve talks andDC five was hijacked. What are you
saying nerve gases on board? Yes, sir him they plan to use the
DC five in the airplane together todetonate here over Washington. When global response
(02:05):
is routine, London is demanding immediateaction. There's a hatch on the belly
of the seven forty seven near thenose. We could dock there. I
know you wrote the book on assaultinghijacked aircraft, but this is five miles
above the earth. I don't thinkwe have any other options, and advanced
technology double seven can accomplish miracles.What are you doing up here? Who
the hell else is going to dowith you? Opening the other act a
(02:31):
life or death decision. Help isa good movie on its flight. For
four hundred hostages in a plane,keep it going, or forty millions of
willions on the ground. You canforget Washington. There's enough nervation here to
wipe out half the eastern seaport.Will come down to a choice between the
unthinkable, the Pentagon and he's shresseddown and the impossible reach our air space
(02:55):
in eighty five minuts. Hatch gotme closed down planes, order the A
fourteens to intercept the seven forty seven. Good Russell, I'm losing to draw
the airplane. Halle Berry, JohnLeeguis on movie and Steven Seagal get your
brothers, invites you and I'm reallygoing to shoot this plane town, aren't
we It's June late. They've alreadycrossed the line to fasten your seatbelts.
(03:23):
This is directly from the president himself. Everybody, are you with your words?
That's to cut the plan executive decision, which is what we're talking about
on this episode. Because yes,ladies and gentlemen, you may have heard
(03:44):
of this movie before. But Iwould go out on a limb and say
that this might be the best moviewe've talked about on this show. Oh
but m I know, I likethe average films a lot. This Sky
this is better, This is like, Okay, this is the best.
Okay, I'm just going to sayit now. This is the best die
Hard on a movie other than dieHard. Okay, Well, I mean
(04:05):
I still think the Underseiege films area little better than this, but this
is still a great night. I'msure I've said what I said. I
just this movie is well written.You don't think so, like again,
Friends with Richard, under Siege twoaside, Like this movie is an actual
movie though, But I'm not sayingit's not well written. I'm just saying
for entertainment value, I think underseagefilms are just a smidge better. That's
(04:29):
all I'm saying. There's more,there's more bombast in those movies, for
sure. I'm not saying this isn'ta great This is a quieter movie than
under very well done film. Itis a very well done film. It
doesn't rely as much on gunfire andexplosions and shit, it's very tense.
It doesn't even rely on Steven's agoal. Oh yeah, you'll see after
that. But it's kind of brillianthow they do it, although they kind
(04:53):
of spoil it in the trailer,so that well, they spoil it in
the trailer only if you know thatthat's the scene and that's what happens the
scene. They spoil it in thetrailer with hindsight, you know, again,
watch again watching the movie in ninetyfive when it came out, or
ninety six when it came out,and also with hindsight and the ability to
read the reviews online, people wereshocked by the twist I mean and the
(05:15):
twist of this movie. I wouldsay the twist in this movie is is
pretty interesting because the twist of thismovie is Steven Seagal the hero nine times
out of ten in these movies,Yeah, just dies. Well, they
kind of pull it. They pullit Drew Barrymore slash Janet Lee thing where
you think they're going to be themain star of the film and they're killed
off in the first act. Youknow, it's well, come on,
(05:36):
you have to admit they kind ofpromoted it as a Steven Seagal film,
kind of like they promoted Scream asDrew Barrymore is the star or Psycho as
Janet Lee was the star of thefilm. They kind of support your expectation
that in that regard. No,I would I would agree. And what's
funny is like this movie, Ithink this movie does a poor job in
the way that Scream doesn't. Thismovie doesn't have Seagal in the poster,
(05:59):
which I felt like was a missedopportunity to really help not sell the movie.
But Sell the plot twist. Yeah, yeah, I think so too.
I don't know, did you?Did you see though, there is
an alternate version of the poster withSeagal's giant orange pumpkinhead floating in the distance.
Well, yeah, it's basically inthe same poster, except behind Kurt
Russell's head is Steven Seagal's face rightthere. So if you look at the
(06:21):
poster, now there's a spot whereit says Kurt Russell executive decision, and
above that is some text in thisversion of the poster that someone made on
the internet, I would assume orSeagal made it himself. It's Kurt Russell,
who again his face is done inthis kind of stylized color of the
poster, because the poster's main colorsare black, very orange the person and
(06:44):
again this is edited and put togetherin a studio somewhere in Hollywood by a
marketing team. The version of theposter that has Seagal's head on it is
made by someone on the internet,and it looks like it but they're attempting
to replicate this kind of orange stylizedlook of the Kurt Russell head and instead
you literally have Steven Seagal's fat,bloated face, because it's not even Seagal
(07:06):
of this time in place. Thisis still peak Seagal. It's Seagal of
like now or like maybe six yearsago, that bloated pumpkinhead floating in the
kind of disembodied in kind of likethe four you know, the background while
Kurt Russell's faces much though that youwonder if they're trying to respect Seagal or
(07:27):
insult Seagal with that poster. ButI will say, whoever put that poster
together, good on you for doingwhat they should have done with this movie.
To begin with. They should havehad Segal. They frankly should have
had Segal front and center on theposter. Well, I think that's right.
I think. I mean, you'reif you're going to use Seagal to
try to sell your film, butthey're not use the trailer trailer again.
(07:49):
The question I have for you is, like Psycho, this movie Scream,
they all do the same thing.They kill a well known established actor in
the first Scream. It's ten minutesPsycho, it's the first forty five.
This movie, it's the first thirty. What is like you said, are
how do you sell your movie withoutdisappointing the audience in that the movie they
(08:13):
expected that they were coming to seeis not the movie they're getting. And
scream, Oh, Drew Barrymore isin this movie must be Drew Barrymore in
this movie Seagal must be a Seagalmovie. Here's what you do. Here's
what you do to not disappoint theaudience that came for the actor. You
put another actor of equal regard orhigher as the second lead, so that
when that character dies, you stillhave Kurt Russell to carry the film.
(08:35):
Agreed, which I think to thisfilm success, to Scream success with Nev
Campbell, to Psycho's success with literallythat into this film is exceptionally well cast.
This one has a terrific gust.And that's the and that's the problem
with this movie. This movie istoo good to be on this show.
This is a real like, thisis a well made actor. But we
didn't. We didn't. We didn'tcreate this podcast just to talk about the
(08:58):
shitty Segal. No. No,but that's actually it's it's a it's a
different issue than that. This filmsays. I believe, this is my
belief here with this movie, we'regonna put Stevens to goal in this movie
as a as a teaser, asa as a spoiler, as a plot
twist. But then we're actually goingto write a good action movie that people
don't seem to give a shit aboutdoing with Seagal. Segal wishes he was
(09:20):
in this movie longer. That's howgood this movie is. Do you think
they killed them off because they areafraid to kind of ask for script changes
they kept them longer? I wonder, I genuinely wonder, because again,
that's that's kind of the big questionhere that I have for this is is
the decision to kill Segal in thefirst act of this movie a decision that
they would have made regardless of whoit was or the fact that it's Segal.
(09:41):
Did that motivate them to get ridof him? I don't know.
I would assume whoever it was wasalways going to get killed off. But
at the same time, like yousaid, it's a known thing people in
the industry talk. At this point, people he's been working in the industry
for like eight years. At thispoint, people know that he's a pain
in the ass to work with.At this point, people know he wants
to change people. At this pointpeople know he might take over the entire
(10:03):
film. That's I think that's whatthey were afraid of. They wanted what
they wanted to do. They did. They did something I think very kind
of impressive. They got the Siagalthey wanted without having to do with the
Ciagal. They didn't want the Siagal, they didn't even need. They figure,
if we get rid of him inthe first third, we don't worry
about this motherfucker trying to change ourscript because he has nothing to do with
it anymore. Right, And thescript and the script they wrote with him
(10:24):
in it, the parts of thescript I have him in it are not
are pretty good, are really wellwritten. I thought they don't give him
much to do, but they don'tneed to. But he's actually there's a
but he has a He has aauthority and a and a kind of He
gives a good performance as the character, better than better than you know he
should have. I mean better thana dessert. I mean it was a
(10:45):
throwaway character of a special ops leader, you know, trying to in taking
his team into But that's the funnyfirst, that's the funny thing about this
movie. Though it's a Stephen Seagalmovie where Steven Seagal acts like, you
know, is Steven a goal wherehe accidentally dies and all the other characters
are like, I know, butlike but you know what I mean,
Like this movie is set up tobe a Steven Seagal movie where you know
(11:07):
that everything's going to be fine becauseSeagal saves the day, and then all
of a sudden, Seagal is deadand you have literally the other dudes who
are without their leader now and aguy who's just a desk jockey. He's
just a desk consultant for the Armyintelligence now yeah Oliver Platt as well.
Yeah, so two desk jockeys andthen a bunch of essentially like these are
(11:28):
the followers, not the lecial ops, yeah, special assassin not assassins,
but a special Forces team. Andit's I like this idea of like,
oh no, what do we donow that the like are you know,
it's essentially the question like who servesGotham City Whence Batman is dead? It's
that question, right, who's goingto step up when you're special forces leader
who's amazing at everything because he's Seagal? What happens when he dies? And
(11:52):
it's like, you guys have tostep up to the plate and figure out
a way to solve this massive puzzle, because this movie ends up being a
puzzle when they're on the plane,like a massive kind of escape room almost.
They set it up brilliantly. Thecharacter, Like God, the first
scene, the very first scene,you see it's not Kurt Russell, it's
Siagall. Yep, it's Seagall andhis band of of of Sigus Navy Seal
(12:13):
special Forces or whatever they're they're infiltratingthis this mansion looking for these chemical weapons,
just to find out they're gone,that they've been stolen, and they're
acting on information from Kurt Russell's characterexactly. And and then you know,
stevens All kind of has a smallkind of vendetta against Kurt Russell fir giving
him the bad informations, a vendettaagainst whoever did it right, because he
(12:37):
loses, he loses one of hisagents in the process. They're too late,
and he's like, well there,he doesn't believe they were too late.
He believes it was bad information.So he's like, well, you
got my men killed. I'll neverforgive you for that. And it's like
all right whatever, Sorry, Yeah, I mean yeah, And this nerve
gas is apparently so deadly that onedrop of it could kill higher room,
(13:00):
a room of people. It's kindof it kind of it's kind of like
The Rock I was about to say, it's it's that kind of nerve agent
that it does exist in reality,but it would not be this easy to
get, No, and it wouldbe a much would be a much bigger
deal if it got out, Likeyou know what I mean, Like this
is this is like shit you don'tmess around with. Yeah, I mean,
like I said, it's it's verymuch kind of This does have a
(13:24):
lot of similarities to The Rock Assibilarious Air Force one too. Yeah,
Nevis desk Jockey has to become thehero when the when the main guy gets
taken out, you know, inthe Rockets Michael b In this, it's
Steven Seagal. Yeah, but there'slot is very similar. Um, there's
a lot of a lot Delta forcein this with the airplane and the hijackers.
I love that. Ask you aquestion? Can I ask you a
(13:46):
question? Though? Could this moviebe made today? Exact same plot,
exact same villain, is the exactsame end game? I don't think this
movie could be made after Night aftertwo thousand and one, do you That's
That's what I'm asking because the mainvillain of these films, they pretty much
say they're Muslim, these are Muslimterrorists. I don't have a problem with
that. It's the fact that hein the film you see him practicing praying
(14:09):
on you know, doing his prayer, which is you know, I don't
have anything against that, but it'sit's almost like the film isss saying,
you see someone do that, becareful, and they try they try to
diffuse it by the one one ofhis tentiment saying this is not what Allah
intended, this is not you knowwhat, which I felt was I like
that twist. Yeah, But it'salmost like the filmmakers are trying to say,
(14:31):
no, no, no, thisis not what we mean. Right
We're Yeah, I get it,But wasn't too little too late in that
regard? I don't know. Couldthey make this movie today the way they
made it? Then again, Idon't I think he would have like you
know, activist groups up in arms, which again, like I understand,
I mean, after nine to eleven, the Muslim community just became this the
(14:52):
super villain to people, not allpeople. I'm just saying that. Unfortunately
muslim saying came not all people.Well, it just seems like after nine
eleven, Muslims became public enemy numberone two to a lot of people.
Like if you're in an airport andyou see and someone you know, if
you saw a Muslim sitting in yoursame same you know air you know,
(15:13):
the same same not the same aisle, but the same you know where you
wait for the plane. Oh yeah, like the in the seat in seating
area, Yeah, yeah, inthe in the you know what would you
think? You know what goes throughyour head? Right? And I'm with
you, like I get it.You know. That's the thing. There
was a little, i will say, the whole thing with that, Like
I don't know. It was asan adult now who lived through nine to
(15:35):
eleven and seeing this movie, itwas a it's skewed a little close.
It was a little like we're gonnablow up Washington, d C. And
again the landing, the crashing theplane into the Pentagon is really like the
lease of their worries. Yeah,because then the nerve agent gets into the
air and it kills you know,oh my god, it will kill Hamstern
Seaboard. Love that phrase, loveEastern Seaboard as a phrase, and then
(15:58):
they have the graphic like the gasspreading and it's like it'll kick out.
That was That was. That wasthe heavily used trope in the nineties where
they showed graphic of a red thingcovering like an outbreak. Have you seen
outbreak? No, but I've seenan evolution which does the same thing.
Well outbreak. They had this mapof like this is what happens to day
one or week one, and thenyou just see that and eventually you see
(16:18):
the red cover up the entire mapof you by day thirty two. The
words taken over. It's their wayof saying this is like heavy shit.
Yeah, I just have to sayEastern Seaboard and I know you're talking serious.
You don't need to show it.Yeah, but I again, I
think you would. I think youwould ruffle some feathers. I don't think
they would outright say like these areMuslim characters, this is not Islam.
(16:38):
They would be like there, theymight be a radical group, and they
are. I mean again, theyare a radical group in this movie.
They're fucking terrorists, like they flatup stay there there Islam, they flat
out say that they're an extremist organizationlike there You know again, extremist organizations
don't represent the populace, they representa part of it. So if people
(17:00):
are getting upset about this movie orwere or could get upset about Muslims being
portrayed as terrorists, well I feellike more less, less offensive, more
lazy at this point is the wayI would look at it, because I'm
worried much more about domestic terrorists atthis point, and I am than I
am someone who's in the Middle East. But yeah, I'm not worried about
(17:22):
a Muslim walking into my building.I'm more worried about an extremist like Christian
or whatever, wrecking in my fuckingbuilding because there are more of them here
than there are. You know,there are more of those folks possible.
So yeah, I would say,not to sound controversial, I would say
the US breeds more terrorists than anyother fucking country in the well through our
actions and our words, because exactlybut drones. Drone strikes in the Middle
(17:47):
East against civilians does nothing but createmore terrorists because they are now mad at
US for killing their family, andthe quickest way to radicalize someone is by
killing their family by accident, whichis what they talk about that in this
movie. They talk about this ideaof like where is the line of radicalization?
And are people like because you see, like you mentioned some of David
(18:08):
Suchette, who is the fact thathe's the villain in this movie fucking cracks
me up to no end because DavidSuchette or David Suchet does not look Middle
Eastern at all. He his dadis his dad was Lithuanian Jewish and his
(18:30):
mom was his mom was was wasAnglican, but Russian Jewish on her he
was born in London. But hedoesn't he you know what he's famous.
You know what he's famous for.Right, Yeah, he doesn't look like
Pero in this film. But Ialso contend he doesn't look like Pero when
he doesn't have a mustache. Anyway, if you look at pictures to him
(18:51):
on like Google, I would saythey added brown makeup to his face.
But I agree he doesn't. That'swhat I'm saying, Like he does not,
he doesn't look Middle Eastern. Butyou know what, I don't fucking
care because David suchet is amazing inthis movie, he's a prey, such
a good villain, he's such asyeah, he's a nasty villain, and
(19:11):
he's one of those villains I reallyappreciate. I really appreciate the screenwriters in
this film, Jim Thompson and JohnThompson, Jim and John Thomas, because
a lot of the times you havethe villain go Okay, well it's over,
I'm dead, and in this moviehe goes, nah, he's fucking
shoots the pilots, and I'm like, give the villain. Don't give the
villain any redeemable qualities. He needsto be a battye to the end.
(19:34):
He needs to figure out how touse his last breath to continue his his
work, his belief, his ratis zelotry. He needs to do it
to the end. He bullshits thegovernment. They're going to give him what
he wants, but he's still gonnablow up the plane anyway, right.
He was mean, he was gonnahe never intended to survive. No,
no, but they but even hisown terrorist. But he don't know that.
(19:59):
No, thanks you for didn't knowthat. Because Hens Room. When
they find out what his plan,he's like no, They're like, no,
you cannot do this. This wedidn't sign up, We didn't sign
up for this. This is notwhat Ala intended or whatever he said.
And you know, like, yeah, you're right. He fucking shoots the
pilots. Yeah I like that,Like he really liked he There is nothing
redeemable about Najie Hassan film. Youwant this fucker to die and you want
(20:22):
to fucking Dike quick. Yeah,oh yeah. I was soup like like
by the end of this movie,I was like cheering with the movie.
Granted, this is the first timeI'd ever seen this movie. I've never
seen it. I'd seen it probablywhen it first came to video in like
ninety seven or whatever, but afterthat kind of never I kind of saw
clips of it from the night Butthis is the first time I've watched it
in full in a long time.This movie is legit in my top ten
(20:45):
action movies of all time. Now, the amount of like ramping up tension
that this movie does throughout it doesn'tlike, this movie doesn't stop ramping up
the tension until the essentially last twominutes, because it goes from bad add
to worse to unbelievably worse to likejust so insane that by the end of
it you're just like exhausted with therest of the cast of the movie.
(21:07):
Well, they do something in thisfilm that I thought was kind of brilliant.
Um, the heroes don't meet thevillains until like near the end of
the film. That's when they meetthe villains the movie. That's that's the
only time they get to meet.That's it, because they do something really
good in the film where they keepthem on the under of the plane and
they have them be silent and veryvery quiet, and it's kind of brilliant
(21:30):
how they like. That kind ofhelps ramp up the tension because you don't
want the terrorists having any hint becausetheir whole plan hinges on them being very
secretive and doing something. They don'tjust want to hop on the plane and
take out the terrorists. They knowwhat they need to do. They know
there has to be something done beforethey can do this. They need to
diffuse the bomb. They need tomake sure that it's under control because they
(21:53):
know if they try to take outthe terrorists first hand. Well, there's
a twist that the terrorists want tokill the people. Yeah, well they
don't want to have Okay, Well, and another thing is they don't want
to kill the terrorists because later theyfind out that none of the terrorists or
henchmen have the detonator. They havea they have a mole basically on the
plant plant. Yeah, a planton the plane with the remote to be
(22:17):
inconspicuous and not you know. Andwhen they find that, I'm like,
oh shit, plans change and theshadow into They foreshadow it in the movie
and you don't even realize it whenthe woman is sitting down and the guy's
like, stupid woman and she's like, I'm so sorry. Like they're planting
those seeds early on. It's yeah, it's this movie like and I don't
want to speak super hyperbolically, butthis is how you write an action movie.
(22:37):
Well, the fact remains is thatthis is not a film where it's
just gunfire and go in, youknow, balls out, just come in
shooting, you know. And it'sno, it's very meticulous, you know,
because I mean it's it's like apuzzle they have to put together.
Yeah, of it is. It'sa stuff about this because they know one
(23:00):
move out of place could fuck upthis whole mission and kill everyone on the
plane. This is a stealth actionmovie. It was telling a friend of
mine that he should watch this movie, and I was like, imagine Air
Force One, but like a stealthversion of that, because like air Force
One, I don't know if you'veseen it recently, it's it's a fucking
jingoist nightmare. There is so muchRara America shit, like it's a it's
(23:22):
a lot. It's oh, it'sit's to the poll America. FU.
Yeah, if you made the movietoday, people would think that you were
being satirical in how like we don'trun from terrorists, we don't negotiate,
Like that's okay, whatever, fine, And then he's like, well you
will negotiate with me, and it'slike, oh haha, got him.
(23:42):
The fact remains, though I mentionedAir Force One for this exact reason that
you mentioned in this movie an airForce one, that movie has to take
place on air Force One for anyoneto be able to shoot guns inside of
the airplane, because there's a bigas airplane. Well no, it's actually
a different thing, and they mentionedit in the movie. They go air
Force one is triple reinforced, soyou know, you can't just shoot bullets
(24:06):
out. The bullets ricochet, andin this movie. The moment that the
bullets hit the exterior shell of theplane. Yeah, people get sucked out.
Like that's the end of the movie. Is the tension ramps up with
David Suchet shooting essentially a window thatcauses the entire people to get sucked out.
Yeah, that's his move of desperation. But that alone, like you
(24:27):
said, this stealth aspect of thismovie, the aspect of the movie that
they're having to do everything without forcebecause the moment they use force, it
has to be it. I likethat, and that adds so much tension
to this movie that it be likethis. These like a movie like these
tend to not have I think thefact that, well, here's the characters.
(24:48):
We gotta give it to the characters. Though partially two. I mean,
you know, everything is Karrot Russell'sgreat. He plays this. He
basically is a brains guy who setsup missions. He does do the missions.
He just sets them up and youknow, gives them planning. Doctor
dexter Riley, and that's why theytake him on the plane because they can't
really do it without him. Um, then you have I think it's a
(25:10):
little bit more to it that becauseit's the whole Like steagalls like, I
want you there because last time,well yeah, like he's like, last
time you gave me bad information.I want you to come along. But
Seagall's also the one who is youknow, like, oh, I know
about the seat. Fuck dude,I just want to get this out in
the open. The fucking way theyget on the airplane is that's that's that's
(25:33):
where this that's where this movie started, right, That's what I want to
get you. They bring up Pawn, they bring on the mission. Oliver
Platt replaced. He invents he inventedthis thing where connects to the bottom of
the plane so they can sneak inthrough the bottom without the terrorists knowing.
And if you and originally that wassupposed to be it was originally supposed to
be Oliver Platt would do it andthen he would just leave go back to
(25:55):
the White House. But circumstances change. There's there's one of the one of
them, one of the Special Forcesguys knock something off that and it fucks
up the whole thing. And well, I think that part of the movie
is where I kind of was alittle perturbed. The the Dyson Miles Dyson,
Joe Morton gets paralyzed somehow and he'sblocking. The thing about this movie
(26:18):
is they've created something that's so fuckingoutlandish, and the reason that it's like
they created, I think is alsoso. The reason that a stealth bomber
in F one seventeen has a vacuumhose on top of it is so that
they could correct me if I'm wronghere transfer bomber cruise without the bomber coming
home. So it's like midair refueling. It's like, instead of refueling with
(26:42):
fuel, how do we midair refuelwith I mean, that's that's like to
me, Well, that's that's what. That's what, that's what the initial
reason for inventing this thing, that'swhy our Platt invented it. Yeah,
you know, And but I thinkit's telling you that that is like that
was where they started the script forthis movie. They're like, we have
this great idea for a stealth likehow do we build a movie around a
(27:03):
stealth like a midair stealth mission ofa team getting onto an airplane and we
have this idea of like a stealthbomber going underneath the plane and opening it,
Like, how do we build amovie from that. But man,
I'll tell you what effects are alittle wonky. It's models and it doesn't
look great. But that scene isso good. Well, I mean it
just goes to the pacing of theaction. I mean the performances of Joe
(27:29):
Morton, John Lguizamo. We haven'ttalked about John Leguizama that much, but
he is for all intents and purposes, intents and purposes, he is the
leader of the of the Special Forces. Once Sigal gets taken out, becomes
the film second lead. Kurt Russellis the main lead. Like Guizamo really
fucking steps up to the plate.He is forceful, he is charismatic.
He is great in this movie.I mean, none of the things you
(27:52):
assume when you assume a John Leguizamoroll from the nineties, well you know,
well, people have known John Leguizamoto play like you know, Latino
gangsters or Italian plumbers or cross dressesor cross He was known basically for comedic
roles, you know, as alighthearted This is the first time he has
a couple like smartass lines in thefilm, but mostly he's a guy who
(28:14):
takes action. Yeah. Also,Beaty Wong not known for being an action
star. He's that is Yeah,that surprised me too. It's like Beati
Wong known for being the scientist inJurassic Park, being the psychologist in like
Law and Order and shit, andhe's playing stage actor by the way,
Oh yeah, and he's playing acounter terrorist guy. Yeah. No,
and Whip and Whip Hubily Whip hubWhip Hubil, who doesn't get talked about
(28:37):
enough in my opinion. I mean, he was in Top Gun, he
was in Ruskies, he was species. Yeah, Whip Hubili is a great
guy. I kind of always couldI always kind of. He's with Ris
rick Rossovich. I think they wereboth in Top Gun. He looks very
much like Rick Rossovich. I thinkrich Rosovich and and him were both in
Top Guns. But no, you'reright, like there are a lot of
like character actors in this movie whodon't get enough. I think enough credibly
(29:02):
doesn't do much in the sty No, neither does Beati Wong for that matter.
I mean neither does Andreas Katsulas,who is great, who played the
one armed man in Fugitive. MaryEllen Trayer is in this movie for like
two seconds. Don't they don't theykill her first? She just dies.
Hallie Oh, Hallie Berry's in thismovie. Didn't even mention that, but
halle Berry just finds Mary Ellen Traynerdid. There's one thing they screw up
(29:23):
in this movie. One thing,the whole thing at the end where Kurt
Russell asked her out coffee. Thatwas kind of I thought you were going
to talk to the fact that,like, we didn't need that long of
a flight ending scene where it's likeKurt Russell being actually walked through how to
fly the plane. That I foundthat to be. That didn't bother him.
Act. It was just it wasto set it up. It was
(29:44):
over, it was over overdone.It was like three scenes worth of it,
do you know what I mean?They set it up. They do
set it up in the beginning kindof you kind of know that's what he's
got to deal with at the end. He's taking flying lessons. At the
beginning, the first time you seehim, he's in a plane and his
instructor his face, you know,and instructors like you're ready, you're done.
You know, you don't need anymore. And any person who's seen any
movie like it actually know, okay, this is going to come into play
(30:07):
later right, plant payoff, plantpayoff. Like, if a character is
scared of something at the beginning ofa film, you know that's gonna come
into plays later in the film.I know, I genuinely like, I
really really liked this movie. Andagain, I think it speaks to the
character actors involved. I think itspeaks to again, we didn't really talk
about Seagal, but Seagal is deadin the first fifteen minutes in this I
(30:32):
see that we're talking. They putit this way. Does Seagal ever get
onto the plane? Half of themdoes, sure, but Seagal never even
makes it onto the airplane. Wheretwo thirds of this film this this movie
is two hours long because it takesthirty minutes to get onto the airplane and
they have to kill Steven Seagale.Those thirty minutes. Well, I mean,
Steven Seagale basically knows he's fucked,you know, And there's that line
(30:53):
of the trailer everybody hears we're notgonna make it, you are, and
Seagale basically just gets sucked out ofthe plane dies. Oh it's a which
actually it's a great little Steven Seagalmcquette flying out of the Yeah, that
was funny, like, wow,Stevens a golf him where he dies?
How the hell do they getting todo that? Or him to agree to
that? Yeah, I mean Ido, and said they were going to
(31:15):
bring him back. I mean,that's the thing he's not missed. But
to be fair, But to befair, I will say this much,
I would have liked to have seenhim in the movie. I mean,
twist or not, Like, Iwould have liked to have seen what that
movie with him in it looked like. Maybe maybe it would have been fucking
terrible, right maybe, But thenagain, I think it would just would
have been a power struggle with himand Kurt Russell over what to do.
(31:36):
It would have been constantly like thatcould have been interesting though, that could
be done interestingly, you don't think, but you don't want it like constantly
you know, sure, I meanI agree, I agree with you.
Again, I'm just I'm more speakingto the idea of is is there still
an interesting movie to be mined ifthe movie doesn't necessarily have to have Segal
(31:56):
die? I say, yeah,I mean there's the same time. That's
what makes this movie. So Inever I never think a movie is unsalvageable.
Well, I mean, there aretimes, but I think Seagal,
if he had lived, there mighthave been something good to mine off of
it. Kurt Russell working off ofeach other. But these are two well,
no, I'm not saying alpha males, because Kurt Russell in the film
(32:17):
isn't really alpha mans. No,he's That's the thing that I really like
about this movie is this is thisis the everyman movie that just happens to
have Seagal in it. There's noway Segal could ever be the everyman.
This is the only way you dothis movie is you have Segal either the
villain or he eats shit. Inthe first twenty minutes, I mean,
(32:38):
he does what he does really wellwith the time he's given. Yeah,
he acts like a print to KurtRussell. Well, I mean, but
that's that's his entire character. He'sa believable swat team leader or whatever.
People you know he You're like,oh, yeah, I believe he is
the head guy, the leader ofthis of this you know, stealth mission.
He's an antagonistic dick took her Russell. I mean the scenes with Oliver
(33:01):
Platt and Joe Morton, I thoughtthey went really well. I mean,
Joe Morton. I feel bad forJoe Morton in this movie, the fact
that he just gets laid out forthe Yeah, he's just laying on his
back the entire movie. I mean, I get, I get what they
were going for with him being paralyzedand all that, but it's just it
didn't for me. It didn't addanything like meant increase the stakes of the
(33:22):
movie and up the tension. Really, they could have just kept him a
lot. I mean, he couldhave kept him upright and still have him
work with Oliver Platt to diffuse thebomb. They were leaving the hold of
the plane anyways, nobody leaves thehold until the very end. They would
have needed to be there anyways.He wasn't good to go anywhere. I
mean he would have because we needto have Oliver Platt defuse the bomb.
(33:44):
But he could still could have donethat. I mean, they could have
had something else happened to The onlyidea I think the problem is there is
no other way to get Oliver Plattas the only one diffusing the bomb unless
laying him out. Unless you layhim out, and the part where they're
getting on the plane because there's noother again, nobody dies on the plane.
None of the characters who get ontothe plane die. They all survived.
(34:07):
I was so shocked. And thepassengers, no I'm talking about Kurt
Russell John that was Amobe. Noneof them die. Yeah, you would
have thought, like there have beena couple of casualties, would have thought,
I mean, you would have thoughtthere would only be like two people
left. But they're all again,it's weird. They all survive exactly.
And Okay, I need to mentiona character actor who I really like,
(34:29):
who really is only seen for acouple of times, and that's Richard Real
playing the air fire Marshal Sure sure, Like I really like that he got
his moment like once the like hetakes his shot at the terrorists before the
terrors shoot him back, and hedoesn't die, does he He doesn't die.
No, he doesn't die. Yousee him at the end of the
movie. Yeah. I like howhe has his hero moments in that film,
(34:50):
like when you see him hide thegun, and you don't really see
much of anything after that, Likehe doesn't They don't show him again in
the film until that scene, soyou're wondering what was a point of that,
right, and then it happens becausehe waits until the very right time
to take this fucker out, ortry to at least, because you got
met. He's taken. He takesquite a few gunshots before he dies.
Who the leader? The leader guy? Oh my god. Well that's that's
(35:14):
movie tropes for you. No,Richard real Is talk about a that guy
actor. He's like, He's like, when I think of that guy actors,
he might be. He's a greatthat guy actor, though, he's
a really good one. Jump toconclusions. Matt, it's a Matt that
you with conclusions, Jump to there'sa demist idea I've ever heard. I
do love him in Office Space,I mean I love that movie in general.
(35:37):
There was a show called Grounded forLife in the early two thousands that
he was great and he plays thefather to h to a Donald Logs character
to Donald Loe my god, Yeah, you ever heard of it? Gunded
for Life? No, I mean, I just know Donald Logus. It
was a sitcom. Donald Loge andMegan Price have three kids, and basically
(35:59):
it's an Irish family, well notIrish, you know, no, and
like it's an Irish come from Irish, you know, Irish stock. There's
yeah, but they're not like talking, they're not accents or anything, right,
right, But yeah, like andhe and Richard Real plays the father
hit Donald Loge's father, and he'sreally funny. You should check it out.
It's a good show. It's reallyjust interesting. I mean, I
like Donald Loge. It's not hardto find. It's not hard to find
(36:21):
online. But yeah, Richard reallyis really good. Um he played one
of the villains in Free Willie.Oh my god, Richard really is just
he's very very versatile. Yeah,isn't God. Go look at his IMDb.
Dude, it's like he's worked.He works like ten to twenty times
a year, like a He's anon stop worker and working actor. That's
what he is. And he's nevergotten the recognition he deserves it. He's
(36:43):
a character actor. None of themdo. That's the problem with character actors
is you're so good and often wellmeaning. Only people like Tarantino were the
ones giving you, like the leadrole in the movie. Right. Well,
it's also it kind of goes backto what we were saying about Rick
Rossofitch and Whip Hubii. I meanthey were kind of I wouldn't see their
character actors, but I think theywere just kind of you know, background
action guy. Yeah, if youcan't get this guy, just hired one
(37:07):
of them and they'll do it.Which you In this movie, you get
to see like the nineties the ninetiesMiddle Eastern looking actor lineup of like J
Tavarre and who's the other one.There's that comedian Sean Tobe who plays the
the guy who gives RDJ his armoran iron Man. There's a comedian named
(37:29):
Ahmed Ahmed who was in this filmbefore he became a comedian. I think,
oh, he was in Virtuosity.Oh I didn't know that. Yeah,
but Ahmed Ahmed's in this film.Marla Maples Trump, I did see
that. Uh yeah. The actorthat I was thinking of is Sayed Badreya,
who's in this movie. He's uncredited, but you can see him.
He was also an iron Man.But it's it's just as like who's who
(37:49):
of nineties mid character Yeah, yeah, character actors. And again, like
you know, Sean Tobe obviously wouldgo on to be an iron Man.
So I think that's kind of whateverybody knows him for now. I mean,
you know, but David Suchet isthe let's put it this way David.
David Suchet is the least Middle Easternlooking actor of all the actors in
this He is the is the likehe's like the soul man yeah of action.
(38:12):
Even Andreas Kutsulis looks more Middle Eastern. I mean he's Greek obviously,
so Greek Middle Eastern. In Hollywood, it's all the same to them,
as far as they're concerned. Yeah, as far as they're concerned. And
hey, how about how about J. T. Walsh as the as the
senator who wants to be this uhwho's kind of has this presidential as David
Suchet's white knight. Basically, I'myour white I mean, that's that character.
(38:35):
I mean, this movie even wentas far as to have that character
in this might as well they mightas well have called him Ellis. I
mean that's my point, Like heis the Ellis of That's the thing that
I did like about this movie isitch It like Undersiege one, like Undersiege
two, it wears its inspirations onits sleeve, and like it's obviously die
hard. Yeah, you know,they have the prick who wants to negotiate
(38:57):
with terrorists right end up getting fucked. Yeah. Well he he doesn't realize
he's getting fucked, but the villainis like, you're fit when the time
comes, be ridy. He thinkshe thinks he's being the hero of the
flight by negotiating tarret. He thinkshe's gonna make everyone get on safely,
not knowing that the terrorits has nointention of making this plane hit the ground.
That's the unmost unrealistic part of theentire movies. He shoots him in
(39:19):
the fucking cockpit. That bullet wouldhave flown out the window and killed all
him. That's the most unrealistic partof this entire movie is point blanking JT.
Walsh in the cockpit of the movie. I'm surprised they didn't have Art
Malik in this film. Oh isthat the guy who plays the warden from
The Mummy? No? He playedthe villain in True Lies. Oh?
(39:39):
Oh the guy with the hair?Yeah, k guy who the guy who
had most one of the most absurdbut hilarious death scenes in action movie history.
You'll fire. I mean I'm prettysure that that people who have never
even seen them. I loved likehe's great. That's oh. In True
Life is just a great action film. I'm not with all the anti Muslim
(40:01):
bullshit in that movie. What Imean, I hate to sound like typically
I'm not trying to defend it,but again, it was a different time.
This is the same kind of movielike this is Me. This is
about as indefensible as true lies is. No, it's not defensible. There's
no defense for this. But inmovie doesn't have to your career in it.
That's a downgrade. Though. I'dlove to your career. No,
(40:22):
I love to your career. Whysorry, what what dhill are you talking
about? Your career could have benefitedYou could have laid one of the flight
attendants so she could just get mrkedin the first five minutes of the movie.
I like and trainer. I likedthis movie a lot. Yeah,
we have to. But you canalso recognize it's you can also recognize the
(40:43):
problematic aspects of its well still,it's a very well made film. That's
you know that, because that's thething about nineties action films were notorious for
their jingoistic you know, you know, I'm saying an air Force one dude,
like that is holy shit, man, that movie is I mean,
not I wouldn't say racist, butdefinitely nationalist. Nationalist views of other countries.
(41:12):
It's like it's like in the eighties, we're in every you know,
every Russian. Everything in Russia wasvillains to us. You know, Red
Dawn, the Russians were invading andthey're the villains. Look at look at
pro wrestling in the eighties, man, who are all the villains? Ivankoloff,
Iron, Sheli Volkoff, Iron,Chic. Yeah. Oh yeah,
Oh, I mean if you were, if you were in the you know,
(41:32):
if you live through the eighties,you know what we're talking about,
Like anything Russian is is inherently evil. We're back to that, dude.
We are back to that right now, we kind of I mean you,
I mean people are just like everythingRussian now is is hush hush, even
though most of Russia disagrees with whatPutin is doing. But that's neither here
nor there. We're not getting intopolitics here. Have seen Turbulence not yet
(41:58):
with ray Leiota and Leota and LaurenHolly. Have you seen it? No,
isn't any good. I don't know, I've never seen it. I've
always wanted to watch it. Ikind of have a real soft spot for
movies that take place in airplanes.No, I do I like. I
like like movies that take place inairplanes have a have a kind of interesting
like a thing about him because it'sa closed space. Right, it's there,
(42:21):
there's no right, there's not justrestriction. There are a lot of
restrictions that are put on a moviescript where it's set on an airplane,
singularly that I appreciate when you cando it right. I thought nonstoppably am
NSA was pretty good and that tookplace on an airplane. Never seen it.
It's not bad. You should checkit out. I have not seen
Turbulence. It has a really interestingcast, just people. I love Rayleota
(42:44):
th oh me too. I meanRayleiota is in one of my favorite movies,
Good Fellas. Wanted to be aGangster. Yeah, as far back
as I can remember, I alwayswanted to be a gangster. The way
he talks is so weird. Theway he laughs is so weird. It's
the wanting in the Saint Many Saintsof New Work. He's I haven't seen
it yet, isn't any good?Yeah? He should. I watched the
(43:05):
entire of Sopranos before I watched NewWork. Have you not, dude,
I've been not busy with other things, dude, I've been working. Yeah,
but that was like eight months agowhen you were watching. I will
watch it eventually, you should.Just it's good. It is that it
is that, it is that good. I'm just saying, you know you
were watching it, like you sawhow good it was. I mean you've
heard, you've seen you know,yeah, you appreciate it. Quiet,
(43:28):
I will, I will watch it. I just need to watch the Sopranos
first. It's got great I meangreat acting, great character actors are great.
Writing isn't pretty good, even thoughshe really doesn't do that much.
She's playing the Al character, noteven Al. Though Al does more than
she did. Oh, she doesshe prevenge, she answers, she answers
the phone thing a couple of timesmore than It's about as much as Al
(43:52):
does other than shooting the guy atthe end of the movie. It's not
like Al is doing much. Imean that's the point of the character.
Yeah, but halle Berry can domore. I agree. But this is
halle Berry in the nineties. Imean, this is pref This is halle
Berry not like pre fame. Butthis is not halle Berry of like now
where she's all you know, there'sa Hollywood leading lady. That's fair,
(44:14):
And I think that's the problem.And I think that, honestly is the
problem with the female character in thismovie. And you kind of hit the
nail on the head. Almost doesn'tneed to have like a relationship with Kurt
Russell. Yeah, it's like thatphone they force, it's so tacked on,
like it feels has tacked on asErica Erica Lineac and Steven Seagal and
oh, that is one of theworst worst caught. That's the worst case,
(44:35):
one of the worst cases of ForrestRomantis, I think. And the
thing is, like the problem ishe has had very few, very little
interaction with this character, and suddenlythey want to go out. I mean
to be fair, though if Isaw Kurt Russell, I would want to
go out with him too. Ithink Speed did a pretty decent job about
setting up two characters eventually getting togetherat the end, because there was like
(44:55):
constant, you know, back andforth between them, and you know,
and even admit at the end it'slike relationships based on extreme circus face has
never worked, which is why sheended up with Jason Patrick in the second
one. That's fair, That's fair. Yeah, I guess they didn't put
two and two together that Susan orSeason Hubble is Whip Hubble's sister, and
Season Hubile and Kurt Russell were married. Did you realize that I didn't.
(45:21):
Yeah, he was married before God, yeah, I know, yeah,
he was very he's married. He'smarried to Season Hubile and he in seventy
nine and he divorced her in eightythree. Okay, yeah, is that
weird? I know, like's thatweird confluence? Yeah, Kurt dude,
Kurt Russell, like, in myopinion, like Kurt Russell is the absolute
fucking definition of cool. Like hejust like cool. He seems like,
(45:42):
he seems like, he seems likea cool actor, seems like a cool
dude in general. You know what, though I'm not gonna argue with you
on that one, I can fullyagree because Kurt Russell he exudes cool,
just cool. He's just a coolcool then. You know what Jack Burton,
Yeah, he snakes. I know, he's Jack O'Neill, he's wyatter,
he was Elvis Presley twice. He'sMcCready from the thing. He's just
(46:05):
you cannot tell me. Kurt Russellis he's fucking cool. But he's I
just love him as an actor,and I love that in this movie he's
I wouldn't say playing against type becauseI think Kurt Russell is really excels as
an actor when he plays in everyMan. He's playing yeah, he is
very playing every Man because he doesn'the doesn't do any action until like the
last part of the film, becausebecause for the almost entirety of the film,
(46:27):
he's using more of his brain,yeah, than his it's a stealth
action move. He only picks upa gun, I believe in like the
last fifteen twenty minutes of the filmwhen he kind of goes Rowe when he
feels like he has to do itbecause he has to go up there to
find the mole, and he figuredhe finds out that's not the mole.
And that's a great scene and that'sperfectly written, you know, because he
because it's it's more believable that way, rather than you know, nabbish and
(46:52):
nabbish every Man suddenly becomes action heroyou know in the film, Like that's
not believable because at the end he'sstill the same person he was, right,
He doesn't suddenly become like a pumpedup action star. He's still the
guy. He's just a guy that'sgone through a really fucking hellish situation.
But he's still Kurt Russell's character.He's still the character altogether. He didn't
need to have a he didn't needto have a character arc. He just
(47:14):
needed to be his. He justneeded to be the brains and the charm,
and he was and he and thankfullythey didn't give him like quippy lines
to say in the film. Ithink the thing where they saluted him at
the end of the movie was alittle bit much. Well, I mean,
but I think I think that's moreof a think. Yeah, I
think it just leans too much intothe jingo is bullshit that I again,
(47:36):
like, I had a real hardtime within uh I had I just had
a I had a real hard timewith that Air Force one. And so
I was glad this movie didn't dothat. Trevor Ponytail up for Ponytail down
on executive decision, ponytail up,two ponytails up, all of them.
This, Mike I said, thismight be the best thing we've watched for
this show so far. Debatable,but but I mean, again, if
(47:57):
it's not this, the other twothings we agree on so yeah, again
this. You know, they don'tadvertise Sigale and the on the poster for
this movie. They don't let youknow as an audience member outside of the
trailer that he's in this movie.And when he shows up and he dies
immediately, you understand why they didn'tadvertise him. But I would contend he
should have been the person that theywere advertising as the main character of this
(48:19):
movie. I think still would contendthat. I think we've made the executive
decision to agree on this film.It's a good one. It's a great
one. I'm glad we watched it. Yeah. So, and on the
next episode, we're we're talking aboutThe Asian Connection, where Steven Seagale plays
Gone cern Kiri, which is aterrible name for a character. And frankly,
I'm just gonna say this right nowbefore we even talk about the movie.
(48:40):
The title for this movie sounds atrociousalmost. It almost sounds racist almost,
And it's based on a story byTom Sizemore. Yep, So prepare
yourself to that, ladies and gentlemen. Until then, where can people find
you, Trevor, Oh, Twitterand Instagram, look up bad Vertigo.
You can find me occasionally on MyDear Host podcasts, the Culture Cast,
(49:01):
and where can people find you first? As for me, you can find
me at c stash dot com,CS t ac hiw dot com. That's
my link tree. Go there,you'll find all the stuff that I work
on. As for this show,on sigal dot com is where you can
go to find more about this show. That's the website and we don't post
anywhere else. So there you go. Big. Thanks as always so all
of our listeners, and we'll makesure to catch you on the next episode.
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