Ranking the top defensive players in the 2025 NFL Draft

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the On
the Sideline podcast of Jackson and Kyle. I am Jackson
and I'm joined here as always by the man who
many are calling the Travis Hunter of podcasting, Kyle. Kyle,
how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Uh? Doing pretty good? Does that mean I can do?
What is my two way excellence here?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I think? Well, I think it's I don't know. You
you can great insight and you're funny.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh, well, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
I think people were saying it. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, I guess it's out there, it's out me. I
appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, I think I think I maybe some people might
call me a zero way podcast. Kyle. Well, wait, we
do our best here.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Definitely try our bests, that's for sure. We're we're both great.
What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay? Well, Kyle, always fun to get into the draft stuff.
What we are going to do today is go through
the top ten edge rushers in this draft class, top
five interior defensive lineman in this draft class, top three
off ball linebackers because there's not that many of those,
and then top five secondary players. So we have a
ton to get into into in this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, yeah, a lots talk about a lot of you know,
pretty interesting names in this draft. Not necessarily the deepest
defensive draft I've seen, but there are there are some
pretty good names at the top of this draft.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Things still interesting because I have the exact opposite take.
I think this is a deep class. I think this
is not a very top heavy class.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
You know, I don't know. Maybe maybe these maybe these
depth players will prove me wrong. I like some of
the guys at the very first round. A lot the
guys I have in the top two or three for
each position group I think are going to be pretty
good players. Everyone else, I'm just kind of in a
wait and see mode. Honestly, it's for the defensive side.
I think offense sid's a little bit hit or miss too, honestly.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
But okay, well let's not let's not waste time. Why
don't we just jump into it. You want to start
off with the edge rushers?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Okay, So again, if this is if you're new here,
the way we do this is I'm going to give
my list. Kyle also has a list of his own.
He will reveal where that player ended on his list
when we go through my list. But first I'm starting
off of a player who, uh, you know, I think
some people are higher on than me. I'm going Nick
Scoreton out of Texas A and M. I guess start
off by saying, I don't love this edge class in general.

(03:03):
It's getting talked about a lot as a really good
edge class. I just kind of disagree. But yeah, this
is the player who, quite frankly, you know, I pay
attention to like analytics and things like that when it
comes to edge rushers. His aren't aren't great an okay
pass rush win rate, but uh, you know, I don't
really fully know what he is. He's sixty four two
eighty five as an edge guy, I don't know if

(03:25):
that will work. He moves well for his size, but
it's I don't know if he can do it as
an edge So that's I still have him on the list.
I so to think there's interesting aspects of him. He's
still only twenty, but ultimately I have him at number ten.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, I have him at number nine. I feel the
same way, you know, I think that there's a little
bit of a limited skill set here, so I think
there is some things he's gonna have to work on
to hit that next level. But yeah, I think overall,
like you know, the these Texas A and M guys
really kind of confused me a little bit. And uh yeah,
there's there's a lot that I still think he has
to work on as a player.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, is number eight on the consensus big Board, but
considered it a high second round pick me because sneak
into the first I just don't. It's just there's just
a projection with him, and I guess you'll spend forever
on him because there's definitely projections we have still to
talk about.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
There is a lot of projections to talk about for sure.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah. Okay, well then let's just move on. Why don't
we let's go to number nine on my list? H Oops,
that was number eight. Spoil on my list here a
little bit, Uh, Kyle, how do I say this name?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Uh? Princely Umanmeil. I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, well Princey you uh yeah, listen, really good pass
rush stuff from him. He's got good hands, he's fast.
I just he's definitely he's not a run defender. You're
probably not gonna get more than five hundred snaps out
of him. He also is a one year wonder. Uh
and is a guy who finds himself on the ground
quite a lot, so you know, good speed rush. What

(04:56):
else can he do though, I think it could be
maybe a third down edge rusher, But again, is he
more than that?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, And that's ultimately why I had him off the list.
I think there are some things to like about him.
Like you said, he is quick off the line of
scrimmage and he can't beat his man that way, But
ultimately I do view him kind of as a specialist,
and I just don't know if I want to draft
a specialist that highly. So I think there are guys
who maybe have a little bit more upside that could

(05:24):
be more complete players, well rounded players that aren't as
quick as him off the line of scrimmage, and I
think I created those guys a little bit higher than him.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, And just so people know where we're at right now,
I have him as a mid second round pack. So
that's kind of how I view him, I think. And Frank,
I think there's a lot of specialists in this draft class.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, No, I can agree with that, Like I think
that it is part of the problem with this EDG
rusher class, but there is a Yeah, I just think
that you know, he has some impressive things that jump
off the jump off the screen when you watch him,
but at the same time, there's just still I don't know.
Do you see a scenario where he ever becomes like

(06:02):
every down defensive end. I don't see it.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
No, no, And in fact, I will say the same
thing about my number eight player, Brydon Swinston, who I
kind of feels very similar. Pass rush guy, has a
great pole club move, has good hands, but he's just again,
he's not a run defender. He's a five hundred snap
a year guy only playing on third downs.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I did have him on the list. I actually
had him number seven. I do agree with you that
he still has a lot of stuff to work on
because he is, like I said, another specialist in this class.
But at the same time, I think the one thing
I do like is that he seems a little bit
bigger than Princely at times. I think their measurements actually
ended up pretty comparable, but I think I just think
he stands out as a little bit bigger, and I

(06:42):
think he'll play the run slightly better, and that's why
I like him a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
He plays stronger. Yeah, he's someone who if he's out
there on a running play, he has a chance.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, Yeah, it's just you know, he's
not a straight line rusher. He's not looking to blitz
the quarterback every play. I think that there's a little
more to his game and he has that upside, but uh,
it's still a long way to go as far as
he's going to be in every down player.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, well, let's keep keep plowing ahead here. Let's get
the player who I believe is. Yeah, he's actually number
thirty two one to Conde's this big board right now,
although I still do not have a first round grade
on him. Uh, Donovan is a raka. He's a rakus
as a roku at Donovan as araku, I believe is
how you say it. I wrote it down, but then
I butchered the final spelling that fanatics pronunciation that I had.

(07:28):
Boston College guy has good analytics in Boston College, good
hands at the line. He's quick at the line, although
I don't know if I would call him a fast
player as a whole. Also, we'll miss some tackles, we'll
take some poor angles, and quite frankly, he's just an
inconsistent player. I think that when you get him at
his best, you can see why he has that first
round upside, But I just wanted to see it on

(07:50):
a more game, in a game out basis.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, I have him fourth. I mean, I do like him.
I think he is a very complete player. I mean,
like you said, there is the consistency is part of
the problem. Sometimes I think so. But like you know,
I don't think he got the fourteen sacks on accident
last season or whatever that number was. You know, I
thought he rushes really well. You know, he got after

(08:14):
the quarterback a lot, and you know, I didn't think
that was a fluky set set. Maybe a little higher
than expected, but I didn't think it was a completely
fluky sack number. I think he has a really fine,
really refined skill set. I think he's really smart, and
I think he is has several past pass rush moves
that I think work in his favor. I think he
could be a very good pass rusher in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, I mean I think I agree ultimately, and I
think he's a there's a he's a quality Uh, he's
a quality player. I just I don't know what we're
I still feel like we're in the stretch of I
think he's I don't see him as like a every
down player interesting, not because he's bad at run defense.
I just don't know if he's like that good of

(08:56):
a player. Like I don't know if he's like a
nine hundred snap a year guy.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, maybe, and that could just be the state of
this class, honestly, but I think he's someone that skill
set wise, and like I said, football IQ wise, I
would just take a chance on.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, I suppose. I just think it's like, you're getting
a guy who I wouldn't necessarily consider overly faster, explosive,
who's also six too, Like it's the body thing as
well to six, you know, six to two. Not the
biggest guy, not the fastest guy. I get it. The
results that are results, and I do like results. So
you could talk me into bumping him up a couple spots,
but ultimately I'm just not crazy about him.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, he is smaller, but I think I think that
also means he could probably play in a three four
and do some different things that way. But you ultimately
want this guy rushing the pastor that's that's his strongest skill,
and he's got to show off that he could be
a little more versatile than that too.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah. Well, let's move on to possibly one of the
most controversial prospects that we have talked about in quite
some time. He does make my list, I think, surprise
to some people. I don't actually hate this prospect, but
Shamar Stewart is still at number six here. I still
do not have a first round grade on Jamar Stewart,
despite the fact that he is currently fifteenth on the
consensus Big board. Kyle, what's your take on Shamar Stewart.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I don't think he's very good. I have him eighth
on my board. Yeah, I think I'm even lower than
you are. I mean, look this guy, I mean he
was a I think he was an number one prospect
in his class. If not, he was you know, top
five or whatever. He's a you know, big, high potential athlete.
He is fast, he is strong, all that kind of stuff.

(10:31):
But you know, I think you have to be good
at football, and I just don't know if he's good
at football.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Right, If you take out how he plays at football,
he's a great prospect.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, And I just you know, I think these are
the guys I think that bothered me the most in
draft process that we're going to fall in love with
someone's going to talk themselves into it in the first round.
And I get the idea of it. You know, you
have good coaches and you're going to believe in you're
coaching staff and your pross and that sort of situation.
But ultimately, like you know, I think that this is

(11:07):
a game that we've had several years of tape on
this guy, and I just haven't really seen the production
or you know, what we've needed to see out of
this guy that have me convinced that he could be
a good player in the NFL. So I understand the
skill set, I understand the athleticism, the traits, the intangibles,
those things do help. Obviously you'd rather have, you know,

(11:28):
you want a guy with good intangibles, good traits, but
he has to be good at football, you know. I
just think that's the problem.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, well, let me give some positives for Stewart since
apparently I am high on him, which is I don't
think anyone saw that coming. But I mean again, some
people are way higher on him than I am. But
I think it should be at worst a pretty solid
situational run defender. He is actively a good run stopper.
He does use his power very well, and he does
move for his size. He also played multiple positions at

(11:56):
Texas A and M, which is part of why his
stats aren't that good. You know, uh, I don't know
quite f I don't think his all of his moves
will work in the NFL, and I do think he's
gonna have to. He's a complete project as a player,
but he is still just twenty one. So that's why
again I feel like round two, go for it. He's
someone who will probably add some value, get you some snaps,

(12:18):
and has potential to grow into a like sort of
like how Trey von Walker did. If you're drafting him
at fifteenth, I think it's a bad idea. But second round,
I'm okay with it.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, Yeah, that's just the thing. If he goes in
the first round, then there's expectations, and that's part of
the problem. I think if he goes round two, round three,
I feel better about it. But yeah, I mean it's
just I think it's a long way before he's a
you know, competitive player. But you know, you don't players
that are six six and two ninety that can run
just don't come around very often and that's why he's

(12:49):
going to get drafted and ultimately get an opportunity. So
I completely understand the situation, but I think it's just
gonna take a long long time before I'm ready to
before I'm convinced he's going to be a player.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah. Again, I think we're probably in agreement on where
he is. Maybe you just like a couple of the
other edge rushers more than I do. Let's move on.
Let's go to number five, another developmental guy, Michel Williams,
who I will say, Okay, you know, I look at
his again, the numbers and all that, and I'm like,
I don't love this. But he's only twenty. He is
a big, powerful guy who gets good push and run defense.

(13:23):
You know, adds value there. He did play multiple positions
because he went to Georgia, and that's what you do there.
You know, it's good footwork and his wins are awesome,
the highlight reel is great. The you know issue is
again he played about four hundred snaps each of the
last three years. He didn't improve a much that much
from your twenty twenty three to twenty twenty four, and
quite frankly, he just doesn't win a lot in general.

(13:45):
So again, I still't know if I like him in
the first round, but I do see some potential. He
is a very much a project player in mind.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, he is still a project player. I do have
him fifth because I do think he's better than Stewart
and just winning and you know, getting some wins at
the line of scrimmage. And also I think he is
a very good run defender. Like I think that is
a part of his game. Now, granted we had this
conversation before about a few prospects. Do you want to

(14:13):
draft a you know, run defender at the edge position
in round one early round two? I think that could
be up for debate for sure, But he is very
good at that at minimum, and maybe he develops into
a decent a pretty good pass rusher too, And that's
a pretty good defensive lineman to having your team. Maybe
he's not the number one defensive linement on your team,
but maybe he could be like a number two guy
next to a good edge rusher. But yeah, I think

(14:36):
that there is a more tantalizing skill set here than
Stewart in my opinion, and that's why I have him higher.
And yeah, I think that it's not a awesome win percentage,
but it's at least a better win percentage.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, I agree, And the wins are like I think
Stewart's wins are basically he just picks a spot, runs
to it, and like beats his guy. Like Williams has
more like translatable wins, I would say, And it's like
a he's only twenty years old. So there is that
Just an interesting question in the chat, just talking about Stewart,
but I think it applies for Williams as well. If
he gives you what Walker does and Walker went first overall,

(15:10):
how is Stuart a second round talent? Well, for one thing,
I didn't think Javon Walker should have gone first overall,
and if you you know, as that was well established
back during that draft. But also I think that's the ceiling.
I'm not saying I think either of these guys will
get there. And that's ultimately why I don't want to
take a chance on these players when I could rather
have a player I just trust to be good.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, let's mention, like, you know, for all the stuff
we gave Walker, I think Walker was a better player
than Stuart was in college even you know, I think
did it uh at least a pass rusher. Yeah, so
I just, yeah, I think that it's not necessarily a
binary thing because I think Walker is a a better athlete,
which is saying a lot, because Stewart is a very

(15:49):
very good athlete.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
I mean, Trevan Walker is like the best athlete like ever,
like in humans, Like he's like number one, like he
like that's another aspect of that.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, he is a better athlete still, and Stuart is
a very good athlete. But yeah, I also think he
was just better at the game, and I think that
adds to it for me.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, so let's get into the guys. I do have
a first round grade on four of them on this list.
One of them is I think an underrated player here.
I'm going Jack's Sawyer here out of Ohio State, who
is not considered too high for a prospect. He's fifty
fourth on the consensus big board, which is kind of
around at ten range. But I like him. Okay, he's
not the fastest guy, and I don't know what his

(16:27):
ceiling is, but he has power, he has good hands,
There's a lot of movement when he plays, and you know,
he's had multiple years of good production. He's a violent player.
He'll play after to whistle and so ultimately he's kind
of what I'm talking about, Like, I just trust that
he's going to be an effective player. Is he going
to be a star, I don't know. I think he's
gonna come in and help whichever team drafts him. So
that's why I have him here. Kyle is just too high.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
It's a little high for me. I do have him
ten I understand, you know. I think he plays very
very hard, you know, and I think that's something I
really like, and like you said, he is pretty refined. Yeah,
I just think, you know, some of those guys that
were mentioned before, even though I'm you know, I would

(17:09):
want to root for a guy like Jack Story, I
think more than some of the guys that you know,
I don't think have as refined of a skill set
because like I said, he does work very hard. I
just think the athletic traits are a little behind for me,
And like, is he gonna have the actual speed to
get to a quarterback in the NFL is my biggest question.
But like you said, I think he plays hard. I
think he's gonna have a chance, and I wouldn't be

(17:30):
shocked at all if he sticks in the league.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, he looks choppy. He needs to go to a
team that wears black.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
I think, yeah, he needs something slimming. I think him
and Max Crosby that's a Raider due. Yeah, you know,
he would work in the Raiders uniform. I think I
think that works. Yeah, or maybe just shed a few
more pounds.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Right, maybe maybe that's a possibility as well. I don't know,
just a good point as well. Are you guys kind
of John Campbell and Jalen Walker as edges. I'm kind
of Jalen Walker, but not Campbell.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Oh okay, yeah, that's fine. I have I mean I
did have Walker in linebackers, but you know.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Okay, well, gotcha. We start with that, Well we can.
We probably should have clarified that before we went onto
the live but that's okay.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, no worries. Yeah, I guess we didn't have that
straightened out. But yeah, I like him too, so go ahead.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Okay, Well, now we're going to a guy who again
you think number three edge rusher. Wow, this is a
real player, must be really high on. This is still
a back half of the first round guy. Although a
lot of people few him his potential top ten pick
I'm going Mike Green out of Marshall. Who again, there's
a lot of really good stuff on tape. He'snumber eighteen
on the consensus Big Board, so I guess I'm not
that far behind where people view him. But you know,

(18:41):
playing at Marshall, you don't go up against the great competition.
That's just part of it. Obviously, he has had some
you know, off the field issues, to say the least.
He you know, had some sexual assault allegations. He went
to Virginia and they had like a no nonsense policy.
If anything comes up, you're gonna get you know, axed
and base. Something came up and they just looking into it,

(19:02):
just said you're out of here. Goes to Marshall. Does
finally have a good year in about seven hundred snaps, uh,
does play very well, is a high motor player, does
have great numbers. You know, the thing is just it's
the Marshall and it's the it's a one year wonder thing.
I don't know that it's it feels like there's a
projection here. So I'm just stocking him kind of for that.
And also off the field stuff is always going to

(19:23):
be concerning, and teams aren't gonna draft certain teams aren't
gonna draft him because of that.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, I understanding completely all of that. Just as far
as the football stuff goes, he's looked very good every
time he's played, right, you know, when he has played,
he's looked very very good. There is a lot of
talent here to work with. It looks like he could
be a huge factor in both pass rushing and run defending.
He seems like a pretty complete player. And like you said,

(19:49):
you know, there's not a ton of like every down players,
it seems like in this draft, and he comes off
as a guy who could be an every down player
and maybe high ceiling every down player, And yeah, I
think that's kind of a rare thing, and I think
that's why he's going to get drafted pretty highly. I
think in this draft I do like him. I have
him third overall as well.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, someone someone's the upside is there.
I mean, his pastors winate was over twenty percent. I mean,
this is a guy who's just like, again, it's all
my negatives, none of them have anything to do with football.
It's all like, not a lot of time playing time,
not great competition to go up against, which is kind
of about football, but not like not like issues with him.

(20:28):
Every his tape is great, I get it.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, no, no, I think that there is a lot
to like. So, yeah, it's all off the field stuff,
but you know, I think that's valid, valid reason to
have questions for sure, especially given the h the allegations
and things like that. But uh, you know, there is
just so much to like as far as what he
does on the field and what he can produce. You know,
I think he could be a very good player starting

(20:52):
day one.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, let's move on to number two on my list.
Maybe a bit of a hot take here a guy
who I do think is a I don't know, a
potential top ten pick caliber player who I don't think
is going to go there. James Pierce, Junior at of Tennessee.
Now he also has I guess on the sideline concerns,
not this podcast, but like there's like people have said
that he's like not coachable and things things like that,

(21:15):
So okay, that's you know, worth noting as well. But
I just really like him. I think against really good
comp against good competition, he had really good numbers. He
has good speed and power, The combination works. I know,
you see two forty three at six five doesn't seem great,
but like he has power, he can he can stop there.
He actually played well on coverage, like when he had

(21:37):
to go back and do that, he was good, really
good run stop rate, good stats across the board. You know. Again,
he's good athlete, good good technique. I just I like
him a lot. I think he's an underrated prospect.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, we're in lockstep here because I also have the
number two. Yeah, very very you know, it's the nice
blend of a player who's incredibly athletic who also seems
to be good at the sport. And that's kind of
what you want. That's the that's the bridge you want.
He doesn't just win with speed, he doesn't just win
with power. He wins with moves. He has, you know,

(22:10):
good hands. I think overall too, he does all of
these things pretty well. And also he's a great athlete,
which is all just put together into a very good player.
So yeah, I'm a huge fan of his. I think
that there is extreme upside here and if I were
to bet on you know, obviously there's one guy at
the top who I think has star potential. If I
were gonna bet on somebody else who I think has
star potential. It's gonna be James Peers.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
How do you view the conspiracy theory that it's Howie
Roseman leaking that James Piers has a character concerned trying
to get him to follow to thirty two?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
I guess it wouldn't be too shocking, right, you know,
if they do take him, that would be very funny.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yes, that feels that feels right, That feels like we
can't let that happen.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, they can get somebody else they can get. They
can get Shamar Stewart.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, I think so. Think So let's move on to
number one. Who. Yeah, I'm mean it's it's obvious. Abdul
Carter is number one Cow He's number one for you
as well? Correct?

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. So. He is fantastic, complete ed rusher,
super quick off the line of scrimmage, some of the
quickest first steps. It feels like I've ever seen as
far as the prospect goes. Uh, he just bursts off
the line, And yeah, I think you could you can
make a you can make a very strong argument he

(23:25):
is the best player prospect in this draft. And I
wouldn't argue it too much. He is extremely talented, extremely
versatile at the line of scrimmage, and I think he's
gonna be a star.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, I really like him. I will say I think
he is definitively the third best prospect in this draft
class behind UH, I mean cam Ward. I guess depends
on how you view him, but I think he's the
second best non quarterback in this UH process. We'll talk
about the best UH later on in this video, but
UH for I think, yeah, yeah, I just I think

(24:00):
the expectations have gotten a little out of hand with
Abdul Carter. I really like Abdill Carter. I think he
is so explosive about the line, like you're saying, I
guess a dead Lelys spin move. There's so footwork is great.
I do think like the Micah Parson person comparisons, you
know they're true. And run defense, I would say, I
don't know if they're like it's that's a lot to
ask of someone. He isn't the best run defender, and

(24:21):
I do wish he got more of his wins of power.
So like again, I would draft him number three overall
on a heartbeat. But I just I think it's the
the Marvin Harrison junior thing right where it's like, all
of a sudden, it's an insult to say that maybe
he's just gonna be really good.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Yeah, it's it is almost one of those things where
it's like you're gonna compare him to one of the
best players in the game, and it's almost unfair to start, right, like, yeah,
he he isn't. As I said, he is one of
the quickest players I've ever seen as far as a
draft prospect goes off the line of scrimmage. He still
isn't a Miles Garrett level prospect to me, right, I
don't think he's that level of ceiling. I think he

(24:58):
has very very very good seas even all pro ceiling.
But I don't know if he has Miles Garrett best
defensive player in the world stores ceiling. But maybe he
will be. We'll see. But yeah, I think that is
a you know, there's still a huge step from there.
And you know, if it takes a year, if he
has like a six set, is it gonna be another
Chase Young thing where it's like, you know, and he
is a pretty good player still, but is it it's

(25:20):
not quite what we wanted.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, And I mean he, I mean, Chase Young was
a better prospect in college than Abdull Carter was. I
mean Young, that's kind of a weird, you know thing
that happened. Chase Young is a better prospect than like
Nick Bosa was, right, I think Carter is. I don't
know if I'm quite on the he's that level of prospect.
I think it's he's close, not too far behind.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, I mean there's it's
just a like, you know, there are gonna be players
where he makes offensive tackles look silly because he just
blows past them, you know, or he's gonna spin around
them in a Dwight Freemy style move, and like you said,
it is devastating.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, No, he's a he's a great player. So yeah,
Abdull Carter, that is our top ten edge rushers. We'll
hold off on Jalen Walker, I guess because you had
him as an off ball linebacker. We'll talk about that
when we get the off ball linebackers. Was there anyone
else you want to talk about?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
JT Tooey Molile at Ohio State. I think he's a
pretty complete player overall. You know, he's not the best
pass rush win rate. But I think he's pretty okay,
and he's big. I think he's someone who could be
versatile enough to be you know, maybe play even inside
some possessions as far as a four to three goes

(26:31):
as in play some defensive tackle, also play the edge,
maybe play a three to four defensive end too. I
just like a lot of what he does, and you know,
I think he's a pretty well rounded player overall as well.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, another guy I'm just kind of not sure exactly
what to do with. I think I think he could
be a pretty solid run defender. He is good at
run defense, but I think the I don't see him
as much of a passwasher.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, bit of a tweeener, right, I think that's his
biggest issue, is like he's got to show that he
could be one or the other. And you know what, maybe,
you know, we've seen the value of maybe he does
go into an interior defensive line role in the NFL,
and we've seen the value of a very good pass
rushing interior defensive lineman. Maybe that's where he finds his niche.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, I could. I could definitely see it anyone else.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Uh No, that was about it. So, Yeah, okay, all.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Right, well let's move on to the interior defensive lineman.
Let's just jump into the list, starting off with number five.
I am going the player out of Indiana, CJ. West here.
Who a player that I do think, you know, a
player I like. So he's someone who, again definitely more
of a run defender than a pass rusher. But I

(27:40):
think it's good hands there, and you know, I sort
of compare him like almost like a car in neutral
what that's going down a hill where it's like it
starts to go and then it's just like it's hard
to stop. It just keeps moving. So as a whole,
you know, high motor player, good run defender, someone who
probably I could see him being in the NFL for
ten years.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
I can definitely see him being in the NFL for
ten years. I see a scenario that happens. The only
question I have for him, and ultimately why I just
kept him off my top five, is like, is he
too short to be a really good run defender, which
is honestly his best skill. You know, he's kind of
the run stuffing defensive tackle, but he's also a shorter
version of that player, and you know, you just don't

(28:16):
see that kind of player work all the time.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, which is ultimately why I like
player four a little bit more. That's Walter Nolan out
of Ole miss who I think is kind of a
similar player, but just a little bigger, a little taller,
and you know, has a little bit more power and
you know, he's someone who every time he gets double
teams down every snap in college because teams just pay
attention to him. Also not someone who's a great pass
rusher and is kind of a one year wonder but

(28:40):
just twenty one years old. So I have him at four.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, I agree with that. I had him number two. Actually,
I think he is a I think that, like you said,
he is pretty I think he's actually pretty versatile. He's
pretty athletic, and like you said, there is the lettuces
in there and the size that I think is pretty
tantalizing as far as a player goes. So yeah, I

(29:05):
think that he could be a pretty pretty good player
from day one and going forward. I know that's a
tough position at defensive tackle to translate into, but I
think that there is an interesting skill set there and
a reason why I like him.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah, he's currently third on the consensus big boards. So
we're kind of in between both of where we're at,
but there's a yeah, everyone's close with the two three
and four players there, So yeah, I mean again, I
see it. I think part of it comes down to
just like how much do you value a player like
Walter Nolan. Some teams really much, really value this guy.
Some teams don't value this guy at all.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, I don't mind, you know, I like having those
sign of players. I think having having a guy who
can at least take care, you know, a really good
nose tackle defensive tackle can solve a run defense almost instantly,
and like, look the impact of run defense. You could say,
how important is that? You know, I still think you
don't want to be the worst at run defense or

(30:03):
anything like that, and having a player that can fix
it by himself almost is a huge luxury to have.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. And I didn't really realize this,
but kind of my next guy is also in that
sort of build. I'm going with one of the Michigan
players kind of grant here at number three, another guy
who I think is just a good run defender. I
will say, for a guy who's three forty, you would
like to see him. I feel like, especially in past protection,
not get pushed around as much as he does. But

(30:31):
he is still a guy who again it is big
body in the middle. I think he can anger really
well versus double teams and run defense and moves well
for his size. So yeah, he's number three on my list.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, he's third on my list too. He is quick,
like you said, he could take on double teams. He
is you know, he can move guys back in single
coverage too. Lots to really like about him, and you know,
I'm running out of ways to describe good run stuff.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
We get it, we get it. Yeah, we're under we're
unders stand here. We can just move on. We can
you know, save some time here. As we went a
little bit long on edge rushers by going to number two,
who Kyle just doing the math in my head either
you really like him or really don't or just are
lower on him. Derek Harmon out of Oregon is my
number two player. A guy who can rush the passer

(31:19):
as well, not just a run defender. That's fun, really good.
Actually past rush win rate seventeen point six for an
interior guy, that's very good. I do have to say
when taking my notes. I realized that in Ohio State
might just have a bad interior or something, because I
look every time I watched interior defensive line and went
off against Ohio State. So now it's kind of a thing. Listen.

(31:40):
I don't think he has the most versatility in this class.
I think that there aren't a ton of different pass
rush moves. But uh, you know, I think that he's
someone who, well, he will miss his hands sometimes, has
good enough hands, good length, good footwork. I like him
enough to draft him in the first round.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, I do like him too. I actually have number fourth.
I kind of like the interior defensive lineman of this
class mainly. I think that's really just where I'm at, Like,
I think there's enough like solid players and I'm okay
with it. And yeah, I think if you wanted to
bet on a pass rusher from this position or someone
who can't, yeah, interior defensive linean who could rush the
pass or from this position, You're probably going to take

(32:16):
him higher than the other guys. I just think those
guys have higher floors and honestly could be you know,
kind of really you know, high level run stuffing, defensive
tackles and those are things that I think can be
very valuable where you know, I don't think he has
that high of a ceiling as far as that position goes.
And like you said, he needs to provide that as
a pass rusher, and we just we saw it in

(32:37):
flashes I think at Oregon and we want to see
at the next level.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, let's move on to number one. Who is going
to be number one on I'm assuming you're board as
well on many other people's board. Mason Graham here a
guy who really impressed with Mason Graham amazing and run defense.
Also can rush the pastor, although isn't he's more of
a run defender, but definitely can rush the passer as well.
Really good hands. I think players would just fall off

(33:01):
of him when you're trying to block him sometimes. So
he's a you know, really good player out of Michigan.
He's someone who may people felt it could be worth
a top five overall pick. I think in most draft classes,
I would say that's a little bit much. In this
draft class, maybe because of just I think it's a
week of draft class. I have him, you know around
that I have him around. I thok where a top
ten pick would be usually a top like twelve pick,

(33:21):
but in this draft class that might be worth a
top five pick.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah. Very skilled player, very quick, kind of a menace
at the defensive line. He's someone that people have been
excited about for a couple of years now. He's shown
up in big games. He does a little bit of everything.
It felt like for Michigan for the last couple of seasons.
I really like him. I have number one as well,
and similarly, like you know, I think that there's a

(33:46):
very defined top two prospects in this draft as far
as the non quarterbacks go. If you're gonna say, who's
your third non quarterback of this draft, you know, I
could listen to an argument for him for this one,
and I think I don't think it's crazy either. I
think he has a really nice skill set and he
just feels like the kind of player that's going to be.

(34:06):
You know, it's not the most exciting pick of the
first round, but it's like ten fifteen years from now,
you're gonna be like, this guy is still on his team,
still doing his thing, and is still a very very
good player and productive. So I think that's something that
you can It's it feels like the safest pick of
the draft getting a guy like Mason Graham.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah. My biggest concern is I took every draft I
fall in love with one interior defensive line went to
ends up only being like okay.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, yeah, I mean maybe I just you know, I
think I think it at minimum, he's going to be good.
That that's just kind of where I'm at, and I
like him.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
I think he'll be good.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah, so maybe, you know, I think he has all
pro potential, but at the very least, I think he's
going to be a very good player for ten fifteen
years on a franchise.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Would you mad if the Patriots got him at four,
if Carter and Hunter are off the board.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
No, I think he'd be my next guy that I
would ask for, just because, like we can load up
on the defensive line see what happens everywhere else. Yes,
but like it'd be interesting. I think there'd be conversations
about a trade back, But I don't know. It seems
like the quarterback thing is going to be difficult to
try and convince the team to move up for that.
You know, is there a way to convince it is

(35:14):
the team gonna try and move up for someone like
Ashton Jane T. You know, something like that could happen.
I think that where they trade back, but I wouldn't
be that would probably be if if we have to
take a person, that'd probably be my next pack.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, well let's move on, or well, first, who'd you
have a number?

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Five? H Tyler Williams kind of same thing as everyone else.
He's kind of just a menace. He takes up bodies,
he takes up space, and he's very good at that.
And he's just very very strong. That's very noticeable when
he plays. But he does not have any pass protection whatsoever.
You know, that is just not part of his skill set.

(35:52):
But he's gonna he's gonna swallow up bodies in the
run defense.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, and that's I had him at six. Kind of
exactly the same thing. Really good run defender, just as
good of a run defender as a lot of these
other guys were talking about. But just like he can't
be a doubt, he can't be out there on third downs.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah yeah, I mean that's just kind of where he's at.
It's fine.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, all right, Well want to move on to off
ball linebacker?

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Uh yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Okay, Well, let's get into this going on in top
three because I don't think this is a great off
ball linebacker class. But there are three that I like
to talk about, so we can jump into it, starting
off with don't confuse him with a basketball player. It's
Chris Paul Junior out of Ole Miss, who is you know,
a guy who's very fast. He uses his speed to
make plays, a really good blitzer, very much, a guy

(36:34):
who his highlight reel is when he's unblocked type of stuff.
He's not the most physical player. He's a small linebacker
at just six to one two thirty five. But for
a Day two pick, maybe I think I would consider it.
I like him at best, maybe as like a third rounder.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, I have him just fourth, just because I think
he's a little too small. I mean, we have seen
that linebacker work more and more in the NFL, obviously,
like Nakobe Dean was a high profile one, but like
I still think it's a tough thing to overcome and
I want to see that. But yeah, like you said,
he flies around, he makes plays. We've seen that kind
of archetype start to work more and more, so you know,

(37:11):
I wouldn't be surprised if ors for him two.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, again, I think this is a rough, rough class.
Did he make your top three?

Speaker 2 (37:18):
He was fourth?

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Fourth for guy, let's go to number two Demetrius Knight
out of South Carolina, who's gonna be twenty five in
his rookie year, so that's not ideal. Did play well though,
did have good anticipation, plays physical, he has good speed
for being a two forty five off ball linebacker. We'll
take some tough angles, and again just the took him

(37:40):
while you know, he's an older prospect that just has
to be factored in, but ultimately a player who again
I think could come in and for a Day two pick,
be effective enough player.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah. I see the vision for him as well. Like
you said, you know he I think he processes the
play well, but like you said, I think some of
the angles for him are kind of tough and he
misses some tackles that way, and I think that's just
the one thing. It's like I want to see. I
want to see a good tackler at middle linebacker and
that's something that I worry about with him.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, totally fair. Again, what's he on your list?

Speaker 2 (38:15):
He was fifth, but I also had Jalen Walker on
my list.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
So all right, gotcha. Sure, Well let's get into number
one on my list and then we can talk to
Jalen Walker after this. I'm going Jahad Campbell here, who
is someone who I just think is a smart player,
you know, knows. I mean, sometimes he can be a
little bit slow, I make decisions that's kind of intentional
a little bit, but that is sometimes an issue. And
sometimes he will cover grass a bit too much in coverage,

(38:39):
So there are a little bit of those issues, but ultimately,
for a twenty one year old linebacker, you'll certainly live
with that. He just finds ways to get to the
ball carrier, knows especially in run defense, knows how to
get around guys and make the play work, physical enough
to tackle guys one on one. Comes from a good
level of competition. He's just a player I really like.
And I'm I'm all about the Jahi Campbell at nineteen
to Tampa. I'm hoping this works out.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, Yeah, he's definitely the one off ball linebacker I
would be okay in the first round. I think he
he almost approaches like middle linebacker, like a running back.
He's very patient. He just kind of sees the play
developed and then attacks, and he almost has the luxury
of doing it because he is so big, strong and
athletic and quick, and like, I think those things kind

(39:23):
of work in his favor. But yeah, I do think
that patience goes a long way in being able to
decipher some plays as well. And as he gets more reps,
he's gonna even be even quicker deciphering those plays. And
I think he could be a star at that position.
So I really like him too. I think he's good
and good, good against a run. I think there is development,
like you said, in coverage, but he has the skill

(39:44):
set to be very good at that spot. And uh yeah,
I mean if he's a if he's the long term
Levante David replacement, I think that is a very good
pick for a team like Tampa Bay.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, I know, I really like him. I have him.
I'm trying to look up my notes about I have
him currently as my I have him a top ten
prospect right now, although again it's a weird draft. I
have him as a mid first round grade, but as
top ten prospect given the draft.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Yeah, uh yeah, I mean I think that is a
I think that's a that's a fair fair assessment. But yeah,
it is not a strong class at all. I would agree.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, did you have my wonder? Did you have someone
else at one item?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
At one? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Okay, well where did you have Jayleen Walker?

Speaker 2 (40:27):
I have him second on this list. I have him
just off my first round board. You know, he's an
interesting player because I think he could play outside linebacker,
he could play edge, and maybe he could play I
think his best positions off ball linebacker. No, I don't. Yeah.
I think he's physical and athletic. I think he I

(40:50):
just don't think he's a good enough pass rusher to
play every down edge, and I think that if he's
if he's going to be bumped inside, I think he
can use that more for good and you know, kind
of be a you know, in coverage maybe blitz stuff
like that. And I just think he's gonna be better
at that position.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I mean, I just don't like him either position. I
think it's that like there's qualities I like with him,
but I just don't like. I don't I don't see
him as an off ball linebacker because I feel like
he's just not good at that. Like he's like constantly
geting himself out of position. It isn't good at like
being able to make the place. So I think I
kind of like him Moore's edge just because I think
it's skill set would translate there. But like, yeah, it's lock.

(41:26):
He's a great I don't know, there's there are good
qualities of him. He definitely has. You know, he looks
the part. When he used his hands, he looks awesome.
I just don't know what to do with a guy
like Janiel Mark.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, do you think it's easier to teach him the position?
I don't know. We've seen this go very other ways, right,
Like we had Xavian Collins, who was another like physically
gifted player who started in an off ball linebacker, really
struggled and you know, has played. I don't think he's great,
but he's pretty good as far as an edge rusher. Now,
is that sort of the scenario where you see him
going or do you see him trying to go the

(41:57):
other way in someone trying to take his skill setting
teaching the linebacker position, which you know isn't as like.
I don't know, it's interesting because I think it's harder
to learn. But at the same time, if you're good
at it and physically gifted, you could be very, very valuable.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I mean quite frankly, I just I thought he played
better at edge than in college than off ball. I
think he was very good at off ball linebacker in college.
I thought that there was a lot of times, especially
in coverage, where he just was nowhere near where he
needed to be near.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, I mean, he's gonna have to develop it. I
mean that was the Devin White thing, right, like, physically
gifted awesome, but you know, you have to be able
to stick with players out of the backfield, cover the
middle of the field, and you know, not get lost
in those situations.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
But it's just kind of driving crazy about the draft.
It's like, Hey, there are good edge rushers in this class.
There are good off ball linebackers in this class. Why
are we taking a guy who does have you know,
I think maybe more potential, but we have no idea
if he's going to actually work in the NFL or not.
Why are we taking him with a top ten pick
over somebody these other guys.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
There is definitely an argument for it, but uh yeah,
I think that they you know, we're always going to
talk ourselves into young players with you know, tantalizing skill sets.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Kyle, what is it with Georgia players whose last name
was Walker? For me, Hey, they.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Draft, they recruit a lot of athletes, That's what it is. Man.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, I guess, so where would you draft him? And like,
what do you you first round pick? I have a
second round talent or a second round prospect. That's how
I view it.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Yeah, I think it is the second round talent too.
I think he you know, it's similar to what we
said about Schimark Stewart. You know, if you're gonna if
you take him in the second round, go forward and
figure it out. But he is going to take a
long time to develop. I think.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah. Looking at the he is eleventh on the CONTENTSUS
big board right now. See, I think that just feels
crazy to me.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
That is very high.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, well, Kyle, we have almost gotten through all the positions.
All we have left is secondary players, so we can
jump into that now. Unless there was anyone else you
want to talk about for off ball linebackers.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Oh or three was Carshon Swissinger. I just think he
processes the game well, I think he. I think he's smart,
and I just think those guys kind of figure it out.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
You know.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
He's not the most physically gifted player at the position.
But you know, if you process well, if you get
to the ball and you tackle, I think that works
in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, he's he's a bowling ball type player, all right,
just you know, goes all out, use this speed to
get there. Just the size thing. I feel he can
get overpowered in the NFL. So I had him at
four on my list. But yeah, I stop talking.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
When you got a drink, it's okay, Yeah, yeah, we
can jump right into secondary players.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Okay, well, let's get into it. Ten players talk about
I thinek. I just need to set up at the beginning.
Travis Hunter. I'm just talking about him as a corner
in this list. I'm not taking in his other stuff
for this. It'll just be how he gets the corner.
When we get to wide receivers next week, I'll do
the same thing, just talking about him as a wide receiver.
Let's get into the list. Let's start off with number ten.
A player who I have seen some people really like

(45:01):
Nick Emanue Wore. Who I think that is? So he
is someone who is safety. Again, we're doing all defensive
backs together. Safety who listen. I don't know if he's
the best covers safety in the league. I think sometimes
he will not always make the perfect read, but ultimately
I think should be just a quality safety, like a
good to me round two draft pick that's going to

(45:23):
be a good safety in the league for ten years
type of guy. What's the value in that we can
talk about it, but has good range, we'll make the tackles,
you know, good size at six three, So ultimately a player.
I lie, I actually like this defensive back class. So
even though it's ten, I do like him.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, I do like this defensive back class a lot.
He's probably you know, he would be if I were
to continue my list, he'd probably be eleventh. I like
the corners more than the safeties, honestly, but I think it's,
you know, both seems solid. I just think he gets lost.
It seems like a little bit in some place, and
I think that's something that has to develop. But he
is very athletic and very you know, very makes his

(45:59):
presence felt when he hits people, So I do like
that about him. I just think it's a you know,
he still has to see more reps and get better
at it.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, twenty four, and it consent this big board a
bit high.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
For me, Yeah, I wouldn't pay I wouldn't take him
in the first round.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, but ultimately as a you know, a player can
who can play. Let's go to my I have to
get my notes together because I have both the cornerback
and the safety notes. I don't know why I did
it this way, but okay, here we go. Number nine
on my list Shavin Revel Junior out of East Carolina,
a player who so he ran a you know, you

(46:34):
know how I like forty time when it comes to corners.
He ran a four forty after working at Amazon doing
working a shift at Amazon warehouse, he then ran a
four to forty. That's a weird thing to happen, but
uh yeah, I mean he's a fast player. He has
a really good athletic profile at six three, you know,
four to four guy who maybe would be lower if
he didn't work before, plays physical. He is coming off

(46:56):
an ACL injury, and quite frankly, he has injury history,
and I think that's part of why his draft stock
is lowered as much as it is. But you know,
there are some other issues on tape. Sometimes slow to
get his head turned around, sometimes gives up too much space.
But Ultimately, he's a prospect that I like a lot.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, I mean I have him number nine as well.
Like you said, this is a you know, he would
definitely he's the biggest risk reward player of the draft.
It feels like there is a very interesting skill set here.
Like you mentioned the speed, he is long, he has
all this skill that could go a long way. But
we saw him play Appalachian State and OLDAMNI in the
last year and a team who's logo I don't even recognize.

(47:35):
So you know, obviously the ACL injury, there's just not
a lot of tape on him overall because of that
injury history like you mentioned, And yeah, I just I
would have liked to see a little bit more, but
there the glimpses that we saw have been very good.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, yeah, we could move on again, we compile ahead
for somebody later players. Let's go to number eight on
my list is Xavier Watts. He is a safety out
of Notre Dame. You know, I think a guy who
solwoid range. He's not the fastest safety in the world,
but it's okay at it. He's usually in position and
can cover guys one on one. So again, he's just

(48:12):
someone who I fuck is a safety who can also
add value beyond just doing his job.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, a lot, a lot I really like about him.
I have him seventh. I wouldn't, you know, hate on
him as a late first round pick, maybe second rounder
though overall he just gets to the ball, man like.
He just he has a tendency to just find the ball,
anticipate throws. He's really good in that deep safety role.
And you know, those are players historically that I really

(48:38):
like too, as far as safeties go, I like safeties
to just make plays, and it seems like he makes
a lot of them.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
This just feel like I think it's almost not worth
drafting a safety in the first round because of how
many good like second round safeties there are.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Yeah, I mean there is an argument for it. I
mean I think there's one at the top. You probably
talk yourself into no doubt because of kind of everything
he can bring to the table, but uh, everything beyond that. Yeah,
I wouldn't hate on people waiting for it at all.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah. Well, let's talk about one of those guys, Andrew
Mukba out of Texas, who is a player who you know,
really good coverage, He has really good ball skills, as well,
kind of a similar guy in a lot of ways.
He can also cover guys one on one. Is a
smaller guy six feet one hundred and ninety pounds. That's
not a huge you know frame. I think that's probably
the biggest critique. Also, you know, not the most physical

(49:24):
player because of that, and he is a one year
wonder as well. I just feel like his coverage. I
thought he did great in coverage last year, and so
that's why I still feel comfortable taking them.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yeah, same thing. Like he is just off my list again,
another safety that's just off my list. But like you said,
he gets to the ball really well. He does a
lot of that similar stuff. I don't know if he's
athletically as I like him as much as a guy
like Watts, But at the same time, you know, if
he's able to anticipate and make the play, he's going
to make the play. He's not a good tackler either,
that's the other thing.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
No, that's definitely not But again, he's a and I
guess this is tough because like teams don't really play
like free safety is anymore, but he's a free safety.
I did it again second back.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Yeah, that was my fault that time too long to
take a drink. So okay, yeah, he is definitely a
free safety. He has to play that almost exclusively.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Okay, well, let's get into a corner. Maxwell Harrison out
of Kentucky a player who is, you know, coming off
of shoulder injury and I think was better in twenty
twenty three than twenty twenty four for corners. That doesn't
concern me as much just because kind of how the
position works cale. This guy ran a four two nine.
You know, I'm gonna be a fan of him. He's
a fast player who has ball skills, really good awareness,

(50:37):
and he plays as physical as he can. He's one
hundred and eighty pounds. He's not a physical guy, but
he does. You know, he makes the most of it.
Definitely someone who because of that though, is not a
good run defender. And he can get grabby as well,
which is kind of a concern. So that injury stuff.
A lot to not like about him and a lot
to like about him.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah, I do have a number ten because he does compete.
You know, there are times where he I'm drawing a
blank on his name, but he reminds me of the
Baltimore rookie from last year that was drafted in the first.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Round, that Nate Wiggins.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah Wiggans at times, because he also wasn't the biggest guy,
but he competed hard. But yeah, I think, uh, there
are definitely concerns because, like you said, he commits penalties.
He's going to be too small to help a lot
in a run game. But uh, you know, he is
also going to be guy, a guy who makes plays
and just you know, he's gonna be the kind of
guy that makes a play and the entire team is

(51:26):
energized because you know, it stands out and he he
just works harder than a lot of guys.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Yeah, and I guess, you know, I don't know, he
just just it's it's the weird thing, right. You can
easily see him being an Eric Stokes being out of
the league and a few or I guess Eric Stokes
stille in the league but not really being a starter
by the end of his rookie contract. You can also
see he's another kind of boomer bust type of guy.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
I guess, yeah, yeah, I mean, there is a lot
to be excited about, but you know, I think that
the issues I have is, like you're not going to
play a lot of man with this guy on your team.
And you know he has a limited skill set as
far as what else he could provide. But if you
put his own coverage scheme behind with him, I think

(52:07):
he could be a very good player.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, let's go on to number five. My top safety
on the list. Who's going to be at number five?
I have him around where most people have him. Malachai
Starks out of Georgia, who's you know, twenty one years old,
runs a four or five, which is good for a safety.
He's just constantly in position. He can cover one on one.
It's a good tackler, just usually does what you want

(52:30):
to see him do as a safety. He definitely can
be a bit over aggressive at times. And another guy
who was better in twenty twenty three than twenty twenty four.
But ultimately I just think he's a good safety who's
going to constantly be in position and do his job.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Well. Yeah, I have a number three. I think he
has a I think he's the, like you said, an
incredibly smart player. He's in position. Reminds me a lot
in some ways of Dribil Pepper sometimes of just like
he kind of makes a lot of plays happen. Maybe
he doesn't have quite the same ball skills I feel
like at times that Peppers does. But yeah, I just

(53:03):
think that there is a very tantalizing skill set here.
I think he's a very good football player along with
being a pretty good athlete as well. So I think
all that put together, I really like him. I think
he's the best safety in the draft.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah. I don't know if anyone reminds me of Jaboll Peppers.
That guy is a unicorn.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Yeah, I mean he is different in a lot of ways,
but like I just think in the same vein of
a lot of those, like really good playmaking safeties, I
think he could be that in some in some capacity.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I mean again, I think
Pepper is part of his physicality was a big part
for although Starks. He can tackle, well, he's a good
like he's good at that stuff.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yeah. Yeah, there's there's a lot to really like about
him for sure.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
All right, Well, number four, Top four defensive backs here,
I got a couple of so I got as I mentioned,
I have four corners here. I'm just a player, who
I guess I'm just a touch lower on and other
people are I you know, I'll talk about Will Johnson,
who some people have very high on their list. I
still like him again number four in a good corner class.

(54:04):
In my opinion, I just don't love how he is
a man coverage. I think he's very good in the zone.
But and you know, I think that the man is
a little bit issue. I think sometimes he also will
kind of coast nope thinking he knows what he's because
he has such good instincts in zone. Sometimes he almost
that almost plays to a disadvantage where he sort of
lets himself, you know, think let things go and then
gets burned. But for the most part, again, he moves

(54:26):
in very well for his own corner. I think he
really fits that well. Uh he plays physical what you
need to do for his zone cover corner. So I
think he's a needs to be in the right situation.
There's also some technique things that could be an issue.
I guess the other two concerns. Best year was in
twenty twenty two, so we're several years away from his
best year, and he didn't miss a lot of last

(54:47):
year with turf toe, and then he missed the Pro
day with a hamstring injury. So that's a little bit
concerning as well, but ultimately I like the positives enough
to still say that this is a first round player.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Yeah, I do have him fourth as well, so we're
in agreement on this one. A lot to like about
his skill set as far as you know, he might
be the best zone coverage corner in the draft. I
think that is something, you know, that is probably the
difference between where his lack of versatility compared to someone
like Harrison, although Harrison is smaller too, so that plays apartment.

(55:20):
But yeah, he may be the best zone coverage corner
in the draft. So that is something to really like.
The one thing is, you know, can a team ever
play man with him? Because, like you said, there, you know,
if they see man coverage, you know, based on his tape,
he could get beat over the top a lot. You
know that that is something that he gets kind of
beat on historically, and you know, is that something he's

(55:41):
gonna be able to develop over time? Yeah, And it's
just like are you gonna I mean I kind of
see hims like perfectly been like a Sisini Bengals scheme
where like you don't have to do that that much,
but it is it's the kind of thing where sometimes
you draft the guy saying, oh, well, we don't really
you know, the Chiefs signing Jowan Taylor saying well, we
don't run the ball anyway, and then because of the situation,
they find him self being a run heavy team, and like,

(56:02):
you know, things go weird. Sometimes you think you're gonna
do one thing and do something else, and like that's
that's just the issue is when do you want to
draft the guy who you can only play a specific scheme. Yeah,
you know some of those free safety as we mentioned,
if you had him with one of those free safeties,
I think that also really helped.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's but that is the flip side, right,
what you're saying of like, if you get the right situation,
it could be very well.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
Yeah, he could be. He could be a pro bowler
for sure.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Yeah. Okay, Kyle, let's go with a hot take here.
Someone who I think some people like, but I am
very much going out on a limb. He's currently projected
to go fortieth on the consensus big Ward, but I
like him more than that. Give me tray Amos out
of Ole miss My number three defense feels like every
defensive back thing. I have one guy that I'm way
higher on. Last year I had Cooy McKinstry as my

(56:53):
cornerback one. Yeah, I like Amost. I like him a lot.
I think he's a physical player. He's only one hundred
and ninety pounds and that's just the that's the issue.
And for a four to three one hundred and ninety
pound guy, a lot of people are going to say, like, Okay,
well what are we doing here? But I don't know.
I think he's physical. I think he's an impact He's
an impact player run defense, not just like gets the
job done, but it's actively like a benefit in run defense.

(57:16):
Really quick footed guy. I think he can play both
man and zone. He uses his hands very well. He
reminds me of like Carlton Davis of just like a
really good does a job corner, plays physical and you know,
can get the job done. And if he goes up
against Tyreek Hill, he's going to give up two hundred
yards in the first quarter. Like that's just how I
view Treemos.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Yeah. I like him a lot too. I have him fifth.
He is my fourth corner on the board, so he's
just behind Will Johnson for me. But yeah, I mean,
I think that there is a pretty complete player here
who you wish was a little bit bigger and a
little bit faster. But he's still pretty fast, and he
still competes at a high enough level that I think
he could do kind of a little bit of everything.
So I'm a big fan of his, And yeah, I

(57:54):
think that this is a I wouldn't be surprised if
he's one of the best corners in this draft, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Ky, you have to stop agreeing with me on everything.
I keep trying to give hot takes and then you're like, oh, yeah,
I also have him basically that spot.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
We spend too much time on this podcast together.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
That thinks, so think So I was like, oh, man,
you know, no, no one's gonna see that this Trey
Amos pick coming.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Yeah, yeah, he's my fourth corner.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
I was like, man, James Pierce at two, that's gonna
get Kyle to He's mind blown. Then you have him
at two also, Uh, well.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Maybe we'll have some disagreements in the next podcast.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
That's fine, Okay, yes, maybe maybe for the offense. We'll
see maybe maybe something for top two. I doubt it,
but we'll see. I have a Johnny Baron as my
number two corner. I'm with everybody else. I think he's
really good. I like more as his own guy, but
I think he can play me. He's the guy guy who, like,
unlike Will Johnson, like he has to play zone. I'm like,
this is the guy who should be a zone corner.

(58:49):
But if he needs to play ma and then sure,
because he has a really good understanding of zone. He
also plays very physical and he can stop and start
on a dime, which is something you want to look at.
It's a bit older and is a one year wonder
and that's kind of the scariest thing. Also plays a
little bit off, but ultimately a corner who I think
could be a really, really good player. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
One of the more fun players I watched this season
as far as defensive players go. He you know, moved
all around the field. They used him in several different things.
You know, he's not as physically impressive or like dominant,
which is why he's not going to go top five
like this player did. But you know they had so
much of it was almost like a Jalen Ramsey in
college thing where they had him play nickel outside and

(59:27):
safety and he was pretty good. In all of them,
like it was you know, like I said, he's not
as physically gifted as Jalen Ramsey, so I'm not going
to say he's going to be that level of a
prospect because that's a different level of player. But he
was good in a lot of different positions and they
asked him to do a lot and he excelled in
a lot of it. So yes, it's a one year wonder,
but it felt like he was doing three positions at
once in that one year. So I think he's very

(59:49):
impressive and I'm excited to see what he could do
in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
And I'm like some players where it's like, oh, they're versatile,
but what are they good at that. We talk about
Jalen Walker, it's like, oh, he's versatile and good at
these positions as well.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Yeah, yeah, he did it all very well. That was
That was the thing that was very exciting. So I'm
excited to see him in the NFL and I'm interested
to see how he's deployed in the NFL. I think
it's a big thing too, Like I wouldn't be shocked
if he ends up it's just like a pure nickelback
as far as uh, you know, shout out to Nickelback.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
The band. Yeah, okay, if they're listening, yeah, shout out
nickel Back.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
I guess yeah, let's do it. Listen. I wouldn't be
surprised if he's a pure nickel corner though in the NFL.
But I think he could be one of the better
nickel corners in the NFL if that's where he ends
up at.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Are you thinking it could be a rock star perhaps?

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Yeah, all right, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Yeah, I did. I like him as like a late
teen teens type of player. But I think in this draft,
like even top ten pick, I haven't actually I haven't
all the offensive linemen yet, but I think I'm gonna
I don't think I'm gonna get into another top ten picks.
So right now, he's probably gonna be number ten on
my big board.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Yeah. I don't hate it. I don't hate it at all.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
But let's get into a guy who I'm just gonna
says number one of my big board. Uh, Travis Hunter.
I mean he's never he's you know, uh, he's incredible.
Uh the again, we'll just talk about the corner for
a second. He is my number one, uh, you know,
number one corner just period. We can talk about him
a bit as a receiver as well. I think that,
you know, we don't have to just talk about him
this way. But like, uh, I'm again, he's okay. First off,

(01:01:22):
four three speed, you know, I like that he does
not get ran by. Sometimes he's just he will wait
a little bit, you know, he'll he'll he'll be a
little bit patient, and that could can hurt him on
a slant here and there. But for the most part,
he's fast enough to come back from the receivers. I
think he'll adjust in the NFL if he has to
always looks for the ball, and he's fast enough to
not have to play the receiver, so we can you know, uh,

(01:01:43):
he has good ball skills, and obviously we know he
has good ball skills because he's a receiver as well.
The footwork and the way that he moves back and
forth and can start and stop is just so incredible. Again,
the low level of competition has to be mentioned. And
he's not the biggest guy in the world. He's one
hundred and eighty five pounds, so that's the Those are
the two biggest concerns you have. But as a corner,

(01:02:05):
he's worth a top five pick when you throw in
he's also a great receiver. Yeah, he's the most because
at the way I see it is, hey, it's a
fail safe. If he doesn't work at corner, you can
try him at receiver. If he doesn't work at receiver,
you can try him at corner. So you have that
extra kind of plan B and maybe you can try
him at both. So yeah, A huge fan of Chravis Hunter.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yeah, I like Travis Hunter a lot. You know, I
watched him at fair amountain of high school too in Georgia,
and you know, he was on the short list of
guys that just played and moved different to me. You know,
he's probably in that top five for me as far
as athletes go. He is incredibly quick. Like you said that,
I guess the one little nitpick is like I think
he can get shoved off the ball sometimes and that

(01:02:48):
is probably the one point of criticism. But like you know,
his technique waves were fine in high school and then
he went and worked with Dion Sanders. Of course he's
going to be very good at that, and you know
there's a little bit of that. Like I would say,
the best I've ever seen at it is like Drel
Reeves where it's like it's almost like he's mining the
receiver and he's just like, I'm just gonna follow you,
and there you're just not shaking me. I'm on your

(01:03:09):
hip the entire time, and I'm too fast for you
to get past me. It's almost like one of those
things that like he has that sort of skill set
that is impressive when it like happens in motion, you know,
And I think it's a very neat thing that he
can do. And yeah, I just think he is a
very very skilled player. And I think he's a better
corner than receiver, and he's a very good receiver. So

(01:03:30):
uh yeah, he is. He is my number one player
in the draft, and he is someone I've been very
excited to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Yeah, Debrol Reeves, a guy who played for both of
our favorite teams.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Worked out better for one than the other, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
So I think maybe worked out better for a team
that won a Super Bowl with him than a team
that traded a first round pick and then got rid
of him a year after that might have. That was
not our best. That was the The Buccaneers were not
necessarily known from me a great franchise in that moment.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Yeah, that was That was a bit of a rough
tenure for you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
Okay, we have a super chat. Sorry I didn't get
the overl that's already annoyed that we didn't get through it. Quicker,
I apologize, Overlap. We're getting to it. Thanks. Sometimes we've
got to let the show go with the flow of
the show for a second. Overlap one is the show
ranking the top mods of this channel. What kind of
kangaroo court is this? Well, it's just you and my brother,
So I guess you first, my brother second. In terms
of mods of the channel.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
I would have Jackson for you can mod the channel.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Oh, I guess so. I don't know if it kind
of a mod though. I think I'm like, it's like
the old thing right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Well, I'm counting you. It's okay. I would have Jackson first,
Jimmy second, and then Overlap third.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Wow, wow, hot take, because is Overlap a first round
talent out of mod?

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
You know, I think he might be a Day three guy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Oh no, day three, not even not even the back
half of the third round.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah. No, I think he's got some work to do.
He's got some polishing of his game, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Someone in the chat says Hunter is a prima donna. Okay,
some more positives for Travis Hunter at corner.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Yeah, I don't know about that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
The thing I almost like the deon Sanderston because like
usually the great athletes aren't great coaches at what they're
supposed to do, because it's like, what do you mean
you can't just run as fast as that guy? Right?
I think it's like the perfect scenario of not only
if like another ridiculous elite athlete.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Yeah, uh, he is very good at coaching elite athletes.
That's seen because he coached him up very well. The
rest of Colorado I think could still use some work.
Although they had a good year. You know, they played better,
so maybe he is just good at this. But yeah,
it is a Dion does seem like a rare person
in that sort of situation. But yeah, I mean having
a player like Travis Hunter I think could solve a
lot of his problems because he could play ninety snaps

(01:05:39):
a game.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Uh, Overlap wants to fight you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Listen, I got to be true to my draft grades.
It's fine, it's fine, you got some work to cut
out for you. You can prove me wrong for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
You're gonna get banned. Your your account that you comment
don is gonna get banned.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
I'm getting blocked myself.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Yeah, I think so. Uh yeah, I do you do
you agree with the take that white people have. I
feel like it's like, play him at corner. I think
the Brown should draft him, play him at corner, and
then give him as many receiver reps as you can,
basically and see if you can extend it and if
it's too much to just have him play corner, and
if it's not too much, happen to play more receiver reps.

(01:06:18):
That's how I view it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Yes, yeah, I would play him a corner first. That
would be my primary position for him. But yeah, if
I can sprinkle him in on the offense, I think
even better. But I also think it kind of it's
going to be dependent on which team he goes to.
You know, if he does manage to fall into England,
you know they have Carlton Davis and Christian Gonzalez. Is
is there priority going to be that or trying to

(01:06:43):
help the offense? I think that could be. That could
be a debate for whoever ends up getting him.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I don't know if he's I know hopeful thinking Kyle,
but I don't know if he's going to quite fall there.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Yeah, I mean there was a time where it seemed
like Shador might go top two, when something crazy might happen.
But you know, especially with the it's desperately needing a
corner in the Browns kind of needing a corner too,
I think there's no chance for getting them.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Yeah, it's it's tough. I mean a Due Carter and
Travis Hunter are easily the two best. It's we kind
of made jokes about, you know, Joe Milton game whatever,
you're still gonna get a good player. And then you
follow to four and there's like three like blue chip
players and then like some good players.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't seem like it's working in our favor.
The hope is that quarterbacks would go first two picks
or at least two of the first three. Now it
seems like just one quarterback is gonna get go first.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Yeah, it's it's it's unfortunate for Kyle, but still a
lot of fun to talk like, hey, you'll get a
good player up for whoever it ends up being maybe
or we'll see, but yeah, uh, Kyle, that is our show.
Let him know where you can find us on Twitter
before we head out.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Uh yeah, make sure to follow us on Twitter that
is at Jackson Krueger. Make sure to follow me at
by Kyle Gronen, and make sure to follow the account
page at on the sideline JK. That is that on
the sideline JK.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Of course, if like audio only podcast anywhere, get your
podcast search on the sideline podcast. We should be available
there next week. We were doing the offense, so same
thing as this video. We're just going on the offensive
side of the ball. We gonna do the same thing.
I figure we'll do, uh, top five running backs, top
five tight ends, top five offensive line, and then top
ten wide receivers.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Yeah, I'll have you text me that again.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
So yeah, but sure, maybe maybe the chat at home
wants to make their list.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Yeah yeah, they could all they could all take part.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
It's a group effort here, Yes, okay, well that's what
we will do, Kyle. I went to my first NBA
game the other day.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's fun. Magic one there you go, mm.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Hmm, good stuff. I mean they're gonna be gearing up
here for the planes, so it'll be interesting to see
how they how they handled it. Yeah, there was like
this like uh we were in like the like Tree
Young supporter section or something like. The Atlanta fans were
like going crazy the whole time, like like what are
you like this? This is a twenty dollars ticket game?

(01:08:57):
Like what are you guys doing? Uh Atlanta Finns travel.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
I guess, I guess so yeah, I don't know. Uh yeah,
uh tao any foul thoughts, You're ready get out of here?

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Uh no, let's get out of here and I go
eat dinner and then I guess watch this uh Luca
Mavericks game.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
So okay, there you go. Someone asked, are you gonna
get if you if Travis Hunter falls the four? Are
you doing the Day one jersey?

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Yeah? I might do that if he manages to get
the Patriots where maybe they trade up for him, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Yeah, should our standards at too? That would just be
uh your popping champagne already right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yeah, although the problem is we're still not getting him.
I'd be happy with that dual card.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Well then you get yeah, you get one of the
one of the top guys.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Yeah, I wouldn't be too upset with that, but yeah,
I would be very happy if a quarterback, you know,
maybe maybe the Giants are you know, doing some smoke
screen here. Maybe they're looking quarterback at three.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Yeah, well we'll see, we'll see. Uh yeah again, thank
you everybody for watching our listening. We do appreciate it.
We'll see you next week and until then, have a
good one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Peace five