#592: Two Traders Talk Prop Firm Trading, Mindset and Lifestyle

Two Traders Talk Prop Firm Trading, Mindset and Lifestyle  Podcast: Find out more about Blueberry Markets – Click Here Find out more about my Online Video Forex Course Book a Call with Andrew or one of his team now Click Here to Watch Prop Firm Masterclass #592: Two Traders Talk Prop Firm Trading, Mindset and Lifestyle In this video: 00:25 – Andrew Mitchem and Rimantas Petrauskas talk trading.  01:05 – Rimantas’s background and how he got into trading and coding. 05:12 – Andrew’s background and how he started trading.    06:50 – How Rimantas discovered trading. 14:15 – Andrew’s style of trading. 20:40 – Breakthroughs for Rimantas. 29:39 – The dangers of algorithm trading. 36:12 – Controlling your emotions. 43:45 – Prop firm trading. 51:49 – How much do you really want to be a good trader? 58:39 – Andrew’s and Rimantas lifestyle outside of trading. 01:05:20 – Controlling your risk as a trader. 01:10:05 – Summary and contacting Rimantas https://www.mt4copier.com/ Hi everybody. It's Andrew Mitchem here at the Forex Trading Coach. I'm, really pleased to be joined today by Rimantas Petrauskas, who's over in Lithuania. Rimantas lovely to see you. Nice. Nice to be there. Thanks Andrew for having me here. Awesome! Look, I think we'll be really cool if we can give everybody the next half an hour or so, depending on how long we spend. Andrew Mitchem and Rimantas Petrauskas talk trading Just talking a little bit about us, how we got into trading difficulties are trading, breakthrough secrets. That we found, you know, things that we're looking at doing into the future. Some pitfalls that people may have, you know, the common issues that people fall into. And then to show everybody a little bit about us as people and what we do with, you know, friends, family, hobbies, etc. would be really cool. If we can do that because, I think we've both got a very similar kind of story, different different topics and different hobbies, but kind of similar in a way on different sides of the planet. Rimantas’s background and how he got into trading and coding. So, yeah. Tell us about yourself. Where are you based? And, and you know, family background, etc.. Yeah. So I just mute the phone. It's just buzzing there. So I am from Lithuania. Yes. A small country in Europe. A lot of people don't even heard about it. Like when I travel to US or somewhere, somewhere further from from Europe. A lot of people though, you know, like, where is it? You know, and I'm like, oh, it's next to Poland, this small country, you know. So we have to do some background story about Lithuania. So yeah, I'm born and raised here all my life. I love living there. Lifestyle, taxes low, you know, all that stuff. And you can pretty much travel anywhere you want, especially with the freedom that you are on business. And, and trading can give you. Yeah. So that's what I love about it. And, yeah, my story began, I would always say 15, 16 years ago, you know, you know the saying, well, there's this, famous saying, they say, you get you get you get two lives, like the first one when you're born and the second one when you realize that there is not, you know, the time is not unlimited. Yeah. So that's when you start living. So I remember in like 2009, I went through a lot of transformations. I lost 30kg. I started exercising and started eating healthy. Started learning, you know, developing myself basically got into self-development, reading a lot of books, courses, starting flying to seminars, all that stuff, basically. So there's been going on ever since, you know. So I always improve myself year after year after year. So I created my own business, got into trading, and it just never stops, you know, and I believe that it's one of the most important things for everybody. It's like, especially those who who feel stuck, you know, those people who feel stuck. There is a reason why you're stuck.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everybody is Andrew Mitcham here at the first Trading Coach.
I'm really pleased to be joined today by Romantos Pracrascus,
who's over in Lithuaniamands. Lovely to see you.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Nice, nice to be there. Thanks Andrew for having me there.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
I think what would be really cool if we can
give everybody the next half an hour or so, depending
on how long we spend, just talking a little bit
about us, how we got into trading, difficulties of trading,
breakthrough secrets that we've found, you know, things that were
looking at doing into the future, some pitfalls that people

(00:38):
may have, you know, the common issues that people fall into,
and then to show everybody a little bit about us
as people and what we do with our friends, family, hobbies,
et cetera. Would be really cool if we can do that,
because I think we've both got a very similar kind
of story, different different topics and different hobbies, but kind
of similar in a way on different sides of the planet.

(01:02):
So tell us about yourself, where you're based and you know,
family background, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, So I just mout the phone. It's just buzzing there.
So I am from Lithuania. Yes, a small country in Europe.
A lot of people have heard about it, Like when
I travel to US or somewhere somewhere further from Europe,
a lot of people that you know even heard like

(01:32):
where is it, you know, and I'm like, oh, it's
next to Poland. A small country. You know, always have
to do some background story about Lithuania. So yeah, I'm
born and raised here all my life. I love living there.
Lifestyle taxes low, you know, all that stuff, and you

(01:53):
can pretty much travel anyway you want, especially with the
freedom that your own business and and trading can give you.
So that's what I love about it. And yeah, my
story began. I would always say fifteen sixteen years ago,
you know, you know the saying, Well, there's this kind

(02:15):
of famous saying they say, get you get you get
two lives, like the first one when you're born, and
the second one when you realize that there's not you know,
the time is not unlimited, so that's when you start living.
So I remember, in like two thousand and nine, I

(02:38):
went through a lot of transformations. I lost thirty kilograms,
started exercising, started eating healthy, started learning, you know, developing
myself basically got into self development, reading a lot of books, courses,
starting flying to seminars and all that stuff. Basically, so

(03:01):
there's been going on ever since, you know, so I
always improve myself here after a year after year, so
I created my own business, got into trading, and this
just never stops, you know, And I believe that it's
one of the most important things for everybody. It's like,
especially those who who feel stuck. You know, those people

(03:23):
who feel stuck. There is a reason why you're stuck,
and the only way to get unstuck and move forward
is to get yourself better. Every day. There is this
Japanese thing called kaisen. It's like getting better every day
by just one step, one person, one thing a day. Yeah,

(03:47):
one thing, and we'll we'll have the same twenty four hours,
which you know, eight of days, eight of those will
go to sleeping and other things and your work and like,
you know, but everybody of us can find one or
a few hours a day that you can work on
yourself or your dream or whatever that is, you know,
or getting unstuck. So I remember when I started doing that,

(04:09):
I just couldn't stop, you know. So so now whatever
a new day comes, I know, I have a limited
amount of hours basically, so always once improve myself in
one ear or another, you know. So that's pretty much
what's been going on. And I love seeing in the

(04:30):
past years and looking how much I've improved, comparing myself
to who I was before. You know, it's like you're
not trying to compare yourself with others because you are
on your own path, on your own pace improving, you know.
So that's an important part. Yeah, so my life lately

(04:54):
is like work, travel, trying to enjoy life because that's
all we need. Yeah, you're right, that's what we're here for.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yes, that's that's fascinating if I compare what you've just
said to me on a slightly different timescale, but sort
of similar. You know, New Zealand's the same we say
to people on you know, other parts in other parts
of the world.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
I'm from New Zealand and they go, oh, that's nice.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Is that near you near Australia or is that in
Australia And I go, no, it's like a it's a
three and a half four our flight away.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
It's a long long way away.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
But people think we're Australia and the same thing, you know,
we're five million people. I think you're about two and
a half million people. And you know, we're both very
small but very nice places. And it's quite interesting that
we both have a similar kind of you know, love
of our countries, but also we find that when we
go to season, almost nobody knows about our countries. That

(06:01):
I got into I used to be dairy farming. I
suspect you probably might have known that. And I got
into trading through getting divorced, you know, and it was
I had a young son at the time who was
about three, and it's like, what am I going to do?
So I started doing the same as you. I went
to a lot of those self development conferences and you know,

(06:23):
to see a lot of people got into Robert Kiyozaki,
Rich Dad, Poor Dad, understanding a lot of those kind
of motivational financial you know books as well, and I
found that really good and that's how I kind of
stumbled into trading. It's how did you find when you
got into trading? How did you find back then when

(06:46):
it wasn't known particularly well, how did you find people
treated you? Did they think you're a little bit a
bit odd, or a bit lazy or something for doing it.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
There was a funny story of how I discovered trading
in the first place. So I was on a nine
to five job back then. I remember it was two
thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, sometime around that,
and I was just browsing online looking for ways for
additional income, you know. I remember I found this, uh,

(07:22):
this software or website whatever, and I can't remember the
name exactly, but it was something called like four X
killer or something of that kind. You know.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
There's a lot of turbos and those type of things
back then.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, and it looked like, you know, all very suspicious
and stuff. But I don't know why, but it caught
my attention because like I'm back then, I was like,
I don't know what four X is, but but whatever,
this is it, this is it's it's killing it. You know.
It's like you can win like cheese hacks and stuff
like that, you know, And this got my attention. So

(07:58):
I got into it, start getting to know more and
more about it, and I thought, Okay, like it seems
I'm going to be a millionaire by next month, you know,
I'm going to do that. Yeah, So obviously soon I
realized that's not going to happen that fast. It's not
that as simple as it is, you know, especially with
that killer whatever software that back in the days. But

(08:22):
this is what got me into you know, And I'm
a programmer. I've been a programmer since I was twelve. Yes,
I always loved computers, you know, write code and stuff
and tell computer what it should be doing so it's
easier for me or whatever. So I was very fast
to create some indicators trading bards for METI trader for

(08:47):
back in the day. And that's where it all started,
you know. So so eventually it's not that I become
a trader, you know, at that time, but I became
a software developer traders. So I just started creating apps
for others. Like I went on the forums, read what
people are looking for. I just messaged them, you know,

(09:08):
and hey, who can create this and that app? And
I'm like, yeah, I can do it. And I remember
my first two hundred dollars that I've earned, Like this
guy from US send me two hundred bucks to create
an indicator. And back at the day, two hundred bucks
was like I have to multiply by the two and

(09:29):
a half to convert to Lithuanian currency that we had
at the time. Now we have euro, but back in
the time we had litas, So that is pretty a
lot of money, you know. And I'm like, okay, if
I do this like five six times a month, I'm
pretty much making my salary, you know.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
I still starting doing more of that, just coding for
others in the evenings. And soon after a few months,
I st at replacing my nine to five It kind
of kind of on my job. I would be working
on the indicat you know. Yes, And soon like after
a year or two, I started making two three times

(10:14):
my salary from creating software because traders need that stuff,
you know. So I wanted to leave my nine to
five job. So my boss kind of knew about it,
and he invited me for a talking. He said, listen,
so the other guy who we can't find somebody to

(10:37):
replace that fast, you know, I was. I was working
at the local internet service provider company in one of
the small towns, and I was looking after twelve servers
like Linux, Unix stuff, you know, all that text things.
And in that small town there were not many people
who can do that, you know. So it took him

(10:59):
probably a couple of years to actually find somebody to
replace me. So he just said to me, like, okay,
you go do your own stuff whatever you need. We
just leave the same you know, same salary, same everything.
You just do remote work whatever we need. And I
just did that. I worked remotely for them, yes, so
I just you know, still collecting my salary. There was

(11:22):
not much work I had to do for them at
the time. I just started my own business sort of,
you know it it was more like freelancing. But later
after a few years, sometime around twenty fourteen fifteen, when
I when I went to my first seminar to us,
it was Brendan Buruchard. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's fascinating

(11:46):
all that stuff. So he you know, I wrote my
first book after that seminary, I remember, and I was
self published on Amazon and it got to number four
and four x category to all that stuff, like it
was really exciting times, I remember. So I started my
kind of selling tools on a subscription basis, basically know

(12:11):
the software. So all my life I was first a
software developer. Basically that's my main business, you know. And
I always was very transparent about it, you know, because
I come from a background of a programmer, and I
just created all the tools. Over the years, I've learned
like what traders want, what they need, you know, and

(12:32):
that's that's where it went. So over the years, I
had my success and failures in trading, you know, I
would occasionally would go in and out and all the
you know, but lately, all this profram thing that's going on,
I just saw like a really great opportunity. It's like, previously,

(12:53):
with not much capital, you couldn't do much. You know,
if you have your like five ten grand, there's no
not much you can you can do in trading. Basically,
that's how I saw it. You know. Now, when you
can get funded with these really bigger accounts, that's what
I'm after, you know. So I started to be more

(13:13):
serious about trading, started build my software around what's what
I need the most. You know. It's like I flipped
the switch. Basically, Previously, create whatever traders are asking, whatever
they need, you know, but now it's like, Okay, I
think this thing will get me ahead, you know, I

(13:35):
think that new feature will give me edge, you know.
So I started doing that, and there are a lot
of traders that just follow with me, you know, with
software with these new features and all that things. So
so I believe, like you know that there is this
saying like all all roads lead to Rome, you know,

(13:57):
so that it's like there are there are a lot
of ways to do the same thing, and everybody of
us find their own. So I feel like I found
my own way of doing that stuff. Yeah, just the
way you have your own and other people.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Because i'd imagine the way we trade is probably quite different.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, I do know that, and yeah, I would love
to hear more about your style.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Actually, yeah, okay, definitely.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
So what I found is that when I started trading,
which is now about twenty two years ago roughly, and
I also did a like, I did a course. I
went up to Auckland, I did a course. I spent
quite a bit of money went up there. When I
look back at it a few years later, the course
was terrible, but I can't I can't knock it, though,

(14:50):
because it got me into trading a little bit like
that robot was terrible, but got you into trading, and
it got me into the idea. So I can never
really knock it, although you know, it wasn't great. And
I then started buying signals from people, and I then
started like you bought the robots and meda trader I

(15:12):
think it was Meta Trader three even back then, and
then four and then Trading View and all these different platforms,
and I really got into that. I always struggled with
making it work in real time.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
I really did struggle.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
And after a while I kind of thought, and this
took four years of developing my own ideas and it
not work. And I suddenly thought, do you know what
you've got to You're gonna make this work? And I'm
quite i suppose, focused and determined on something I think
I can do despite everybody else telling you you need

(15:45):
to get a real job and it's not working and
you need to, you know, start thinking seriously about going
to work. And which is why I asked you that question,
because I got that quite a lot from people. And
you know, back in the day, the internet was you know,
dial up and then one gig was like a huge
monthly plan.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
You know.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Yeah, things obviously vastly different today.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
So I ended up stripping everything off my charts, like everything,
and I went back to thinking, actually, let's look at
the right hand side and looked at the price. Because
I figured out that all these lines and dots and
arrows and bits all over my chart, I was actually
not focused on what the price was doing. And then
I started to learn about the candles, and not so

(16:30):
much a group of patterns, but individual candles of what
they meant. And then it was like, ah, but this
one looks the same as this one one works and
one doesn't. Oh why is that? And so I was
realizing like round numbers, which I used like zero zero
levels and fifty levels, like you're buying into a round
number and it drops, whereas the next one clears a

(16:51):
round number and it carries on. So that's where the
price came into things. And then I started understanding Fibonacci
levels and retlacements in it extensions, and I suppose I
then built my own system that, through trial and error
of what I've learned had learned up till then kind

(17:12):
of started to work for me. And I found it
was consistently working. And the other thing that you remember,
back then, everybody was talking about their success or failure
in terms of pips, and everybody always taught pips, and
I could never, for the life of me, understand why
a PIP was important, because you know, back then, like

(17:33):
a US non farm pay rolls as it was called
back then, you know, the month of employment news. It
would move like you know, three, four or five hundred
pips in like two seconds.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, And I thought, hang on.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
A minute, but you're making five hundred pips then, and
on a really good trade you might be making the
twenty thirty pips. It has no relevance. So I started
to try and look at money management and really understand
working for working at a percentage risk and a percentage game.
And that was a big breakthrough as well, to try
and understand that. So anyway, you know, put all that

(18:09):
together and I developed something that I could really see
and understand. I then started to enter some competitions back
in the early days of subscriptions, and I think it
was called FX AUTO from memory about two thousand and.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Six seven something like that.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Anyway, I ended up winning this competition and that's where
it kind of all snowball from there, and people wrote
to me and go like, I want to subscribe to
your signals. And then other people said, look, I love
what you're doing, but rather than buying this, I want
you to teach me how you do it.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
And so I got a guy over.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
In Australia, in Noosa and Australia who's still a client
to this day, back in around two thousand and eight nine,
and he said, I'll pay you to fly to Australia
for a week and teach me. Come and spend a
week with my family and teach me. Had to do it,
And so I rapidly put this course together, took it

(19:04):
down to the local printers, got it printed and laminated
in color and made it look nice in the folder,
and flew over there and taught him. And that's kind
of how it all started, completely by accident, and I thought,
this is quite cool.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
People are paying you to teach.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
But more importantly what I got out of it is
it started to build a community of people. And as
you would know, and anybody watching or listening to this
would know, one of the hardest things in trading, I
think is it's quite a lonely business. You know, it's
full of a lot of like scams and dodgy people.

(19:39):
But also I think from a trader's point of view,
it's potentially quite lonely. And so I really enjoyed getting
to know people in person. And then I got asked
by a broker to do some training up in Auckland,
and I'd go to Auckland here in New Zealand and
teach people and it kind of then sort of built
ten people and then became a hundred people, then you know,

(20:00):
five hundred people, and it became really kind of personal
to build that community of people all trading the same
idea helping each other. And I think that's kind of
an undervalued part of trading. As an as an educator,
I think that's something that's really important for people to
get to be able to talk and communicate.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
So that was that was my kind of story and background.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
That's quite I'm sorry story, Andrew, Yeah, yeah, it sounds
really similar for me. It is.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
I think we have remarkably similar backgrounds in slightly different stories,
but similar kind of how it worked. What would you
say was like a secret or a breakthrough for you
with either your trading or your programming that kind of
made you go from sort of okay as a trader
to like, yeah, I've got this.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
It would be difficult to to pick one thing, probably,
you know, I would I would say probably a few
things that got me, you know, to that breakthrough. One
of them one of them was definitely the thing you
were talking about pips and percentages. You know, it's and

(21:20):
to me, there is even more like as a programmer,
I had to do pips and points. You know, remember
like back in the days there was there was like
a four digit number for the euro dollar and two
digit number for the for umpirs. Yeah, and then they

(21:42):
added extra number at the end, and then you know,
all those pips became like you know, with fractional like
you can do like five point six pips, you know.
So for software developers, I remember there were a lot
of people coming in sending me their all the indicators
anyas and asked to like convert them to be compatible

(22:05):
with that new digit style. But that was a lot
of worders I was doing. So so all this confusing
part and as funny as it is, like only this year,
I'm I'm kind of converting my software from not using
PEPs but to just using points because it's just easier

(22:27):
to people. And a lot of people, especially newcomers into trading,
they don't even understand why there's like pip and points
and like what's happening there, you know. So yeah, so
when I started looking at that stuff, as percentages. That
was one of the things. Another thing that got me

(22:47):
as well was looking into the stop law size, not
as a as in pips, not to have it as
fixed size, but to use something dynamic. You know. So
usually traders use like oh previous wing lower, swing high
or something like that. So we either use that or

(23:08):
we use ATR indicator. So and the multiplier of that
this kind of works, you know quite well. Uh, And
lately I started looking at like to try the parabolic
seer because it's just nicely belower and above it kind
of it's kind of the same as swing lower swing
guy basically, you know. So, yeah, that was the thing.

(23:31):
And and I would say that the biggest one for
me was all the back to sting and just going
by you know, from from data driven perspective on the trader.
So the way you look at it, pretty much every
trading strategy if it's not like very discretionally you know,

(23:55):
so it can be coded into an algorithm that can
go in hit history and test to see how it
would have performed in the past. Right. And while there
are a lot of people who you know, say a
lot of things about how back test is nonsense and whatever,
I always go back to saying, like, listen, so many

(24:17):
great traders for decades, probably even centuries, been using paper trading.
They just call it paper trade, you know. So they
would just like print their charts and they would like
go on paper and look like, you know what we
can do to make this and that. So it's just

(24:38):
literally what we're doing, like backtisting. So that's the core
of my software. But the thing I learned, it's like
if you go on YouTube, there are so many videos.
I'll watch me back this strategy hundred times and it's
like ninety five percent vindrate whatever, and when you look
look at the video, somehow there is no no nine

(25:00):
to five. It was just a clickbait. But you see
how that guy is doing back test manually. He just
goes on trading view and draws, you know, entries and stuff,
and I'm like, what the hell are you doing? You know,
just code that stuff. So the way I tried, you know,
started doing like I would take a very simple idea

(25:22):
like a pinbar or bullish bearishing golfing, like we had
a lot of candlesticks, Like we have probably like twelve
plus different candlesticks strategists inside the software you know, so
we take we would take that and would back test
back to like fifty one hundred trades to have some
statistical significance and then we will look, okay, so if

(25:45):
we use like pinbar, so we buy and sell and
we use this size of stop laws and you know
two or three timestake profit based on at R for example,
how would it look like? And software just tells you,
like instantly, it draws everything on the chart so you
don't have to draw it. It shows like very transparent,

(26:05):
like every trade it found, and it tells you the
stats and if and if it shows negative, obviously you
would not want to trade that strategy, you know. So
then you play around and change the numbers played, you know,
stop size and things like that. And once you and
once I got to the stage where I say, okay,

(26:26):
this is nonsense, Like you cannot sit there and just
play changing the numbers because there are so many variations,
Like it's just not possible, you know, even though if
I would do that, man, and it would take me ages. Yes,
you know, I can do it fast. Now I just
input numbers, click and I instantly get the answer. But
it's still there is so much to try so then

(26:48):
I made the software to do what I call optimization,
right or well, now I just started calling strategies scanning
or discovery basically because that's what it is actually. So
it would can like five, six, eight thousand variations with
different stops and different sizes for the body on pinbar,

(27:08):
you know, and all that stuff, and it will after
scanning eight thousand variations, we say, look, this is the
best one in terms of return or return to draw
down ratio or you know, things like that. And then
you can get the CSV file, which is like a
big one with eight thousand variations, but you can easily

(27:28):
filter out things out and you see it, you know,
a dozen of strategies that look with awesome numbers, and
then you can go and implement that. You know, So
you're kind of trading now something that worked recently for
the past six months, for example, So you know that
this is being going on like we can't we can't

(27:50):
know if this will sustain and go on like this
in the future. This definitely doesn't guarantee it, but at
least we're doing something that's just worked recently, you know,
not ten years ago, not finally, but like recently right now,
over the recent months, you know, so I think that's important.

(28:12):
I always use this analogy that that sounds kind of
a really cool. It's like when you go to buy
used car, you know, you want to ask questions, you
want to look under the hood. You know. It's like
you want to see the car maintenance history, which is
like back test, you know, all those things, so you go,

(28:36):
you don't go and buy just like blindly, you know.
So that's pretty much what we're doing with the strategies,
and we'll always monitor and closely look at the metrics,
and if certain metrics change in a certain way, we
just stop the strategy and then we either reoptimize it
or we just go with another one, because, like I

(28:58):
understand that a lot of these is just short lived,
you know, give it a few weeks, a few months,
and they just stop working basically for that period of time.
As I see it, like markets shifted, things changed, so
that tragic might be wonderful again in a few months time,
maybe later, but not right now, so just pause it
and go with another one. So I realized that that's

(29:21):
quite a different trading style from a lot of people
that I see around, you know, especially with those who
are using discretional trading because in my world everything is
like systematic trading, like you can put everything into algorithm,
you know.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
So one of the things that I see with algorithm
trading is you still have to you know, people see
it as a as an easy way out. I'm not
saying you, but you know, other people see this as
you know, AI expert advisors whatever.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
It is an easy way.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Absolutely, a lot of people still.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Understand trading in order to understand either one had to
write it or if you buy one, how do you
use it properly and when to use it and what
to use it on.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
I think people say that there.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Was interesting realization even for me. I remember, because you
get so stuck in all that systematic things, you know,
and you do realize that it's not something you just
put on the chart and it just makes you money.
You know. It's not that there will never ever be
a software available to everybody who just does that. You know.
I don't know why people think they can pay one

(30:33):
hundreds or even five thousand whatever for some like if
if that robot makes money for not doing anything, you know,
people would not be selling it and probably people would
be killing for it. Probably Wall street will kill you
take it away. It's a bit of conspiracy theory. Yeah,

(30:54):
but probably that's that's how the world works. Yeah yeah, yeah,
it seems you find the cure to cancer and you
know some things will happen for sure.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
You won't be telling too many people.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's the thing, you know. So,
so what we have is not like you put it
on the chart and just make money. You know, you
always have to look after it. And I remember this
was very nice realization for myself last year when I
was speaking with alex On. I don't know if you
heard about the guy. You know, it's like he's my

(31:27):
dear friend. I met him last year. So so, and
I remember when he introduced me and my softa to
his people because he's trading a lot of candlestick patterns
as well. You know, she said, okay, listen, guys, once
once you go and look for strategist, you know with

(31:47):
the scanner, just do it this way. You pick a direction.
You as a human kind of decide what the direction
you should be looking strategist for. And I remember one
sample it gave me. It's like, okay, we look at
the dollar yen, so for the past year or two
or whatever, he said. I can't remember exactly, but for

(32:08):
the past some time, it's only lungs now, you know,
so just try switching it to buy only, you know,
and just look for a strategy that only buy. And
I'm like, okay, let me try this, and I try
and and the results on the back desk was like
four or five times better than you know, looking bug directions.

(32:29):
And I'm like, oh, shure, that's that's how you have
to you know. So since then I started looking for
ways to make this more systematic thing. But but you
can never but you can never you know, take out
what's in human brain. Yeah, that's the thing. So it's

(32:51):
always it's always you as a trader that has to
make these decisions. You know, what strategy you're looking for
and what why this beer right now? Why not go?
Why not? Is that? Now? You know? It's like and
when you do that, you also have to realize we
also have obviously, like the automation stuff, you know, all

(33:11):
the strategies that I create, we have the automation module
and they're just trading. Then I don't have to be there,
but I have to be there to look, you know,
after them. So if they're making let's say three five
trades a week, the strategy, yes, so obviously for me
it's enough, like you know, half an hour a day

(33:34):
or even fifteen sometimes just glance at the charts, see
all the numbers. Fine, we have one trade running, okay,
and you just leave it, yeah, thirty seconds. Basically, you know,
next day you come back and you look again. You see, okay,
we had like two stops. Numbers are not looking quite good.
You know, I have to put some work to find

(33:54):
maybe a new strategy. Yeah. If all things go well,
it's making money, you know, take trades and it's going
in your favor, you just do nothing. You just just look,
you know, and go live your life basically. So yeah, yeah,
so it's always the trader has has to do some
of these decisions. And there's a really nice analogy that

(34:19):
I always tell about about bots, not just trading bots, anybody.
Like a lot of people can relate to having a
wacuum cleaner robot at home. You know, it's like pretty
wide worldwide, like people know what it is. You know,
you just have this wacuum cleaner, You go to work,

(34:40):
you come back, you know your floor is clean. But
if you have a dog or a cat and if
it makes a little dodoo on the floor, the robots
will spread it out, you know. So I always say,
like robots are stupid all of this, you know, with AI, Yes,

(35:02):
they're getting more advanced and more smart and a la
la lae, you know, all that stuff, but in a
lot of areas, and I still believe that trading is
one of them. AI is just is just guessing. And
if it's and if it's guessing based on some baptest
and history data and you know, on the numbers and

(35:23):
wind rates and stuff like that, if it can do that,
I would say, okay, it's smart to some degree now,
you know, because that's what we're doing as humans and
looking at these numbers and making decisions. You know. So
as AI can write and create videos now and images,
you know, it's pretty much advanced. But in trading, like

(35:46):
you just you just guess, and you either guess on
data or you just guess blindly. So a lot of
of of what we see online now, all this trading
bard just made me rich, la la la. You know, well,
whatever they're selling, they just want your commissions. You know.
For trades, you will make and those will be pretty

(36:07):
much random. That's that's pretty much what's going on.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Do you find there's and this might lead nicely into
what we do outside of trading. I find that the
knowledge up here because I say to people, there's two
things you need to control in trading.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
One's your head and one's your heart. Because trading is emotional.
You know, it's emotional. You can't ever get away from that.
Even if it's a prop firm and it's not your money,
it's still emotion. So do you find though, that having
that knowledge of trading up here, regardless of whether you
use bots or manual trade, it's so crucial that you

(36:49):
have that ability to look at a chart or look
at a robot and understand what's happening as a trader,
because otherwise, and I have this discussion with somebody I
know who's a manager, not anything to do with trade,
you know, not for ex so that you share funds
and retirements and pensions and things. And and I said
to them, that's great. I could hand you all this money,

(37:11):
go do what you want with it. But I don't
actually get anything out of that. Up here, I don't
have any knowledge. I have nothing to share or to
hand on to kids, or I don't feel good about it,
because what I love about trading is having that ability
to look at a chart, make a decision whether it's

(37:31):
right or wrong in hindsight, you know, in the end,
I mean, because we have no hindsight, you know, in
real time, make a decision.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
And if I get that right, and I got that trade.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Did exactly what I looked for it to do based
on all these reasons ABC, that's a massive like thing
for me that that feels really good to have that
knowledge and information.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
I always say that mindset because one of the first
things that people have to master, Yes, when you go
into trading. Yes, And it's even if you go trading
with bots, you know, like it doesn't matter if it's
ultimated manual, it doesn't matter. Like when you go to trading,

(38:16):
I think mindset it comes first, Like you have to
have a strong mindset that Actually, I'm writing a book
on this now so you can finished. We're editing it
now and you know, so I'm really looking forward to
release it this summer, you.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Know, when it's finished.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Of course. Of course, so I saw that a lot
of people come in, they try one two things and
you know, for a few days, for a few weeks
and it just quit and then you call it b yes,
and you know the I'm like, no, it's not like
if you go to the gym three times and it

(38:54):
didn't lose the way. You know, even you would be
laughing at yourself. Yeah, it's like because you were expecting
to lose weight from three times to come to you know,
then people would go and start playing basketball, like, oh,
I want to go into basketball. And after three matches,
three times you tried playing basketball, if you couldn't do

(39:16):
it or he played poorly, you know, it's your first
three times, you wouldn't say, oh, basketball is not for me.
It's like this is BS like basketball is this cam?
You know? Yes, And there was there was an interesting story.
I remember I was lying in Miami Beach last year
and I had my day off and I'm looking at

(39:40):
this guy. He was like probably in his sixties or seventies,
you know, he just came in probably some looked like
reg guy in his retirement, you know, and he took
this he did like a kite surfing, you know, where
you were surf with a kite and it was kind
of the new one, not the kite on a long string,

(40:01):
but you have your kite in your arms, you know,
And he tried. He tried that for like, I don't know,
half an hour. He didn't catch any waves or anything like.
It was he was struggling, Like you can clearly see
it's he was in early stages trying to you know,
to learn it. And so he did his practice for
like half an hour or so, probably got tired, you know,

(40:23):
pack his bag, and then just left. You know, I'm
like looking at this and thinking, okay, so you came here,
like he didn't catch any waves, no fun. You know,
probably if somebody saw other people might be even laughing
at you. But I'm like, you can't laugh at him.
Like he's trying to learn something, you know, and he

(40:44):
definitely realized that you will need a lot of hours
until he can do this, you know, really well, like
cash the waves and stuff. So why the hell when
people come in trading, they expect act after a week
or so, or a few videos or or just one course,

(41:04):
no matter how good is you know, it's like, just
become professional and start making a lot of money. You know.
Nobody expects that in any other field. Yes, and I
always use sports as an example because everybody can relate
to that. You know, like you cannot expect to become
a professional basketball player in a month, you know, it

(41:27):
just doesn't happen. You can get the basics and all
that stuff, but then you need a lot of practice
and practice and practice, you know, and always say, even
I'm a student right now, you know, and always learning
new specially you know, always, Yeah, you have to do
that all the time, and you you will never be
perfect because whenever you feel like, oh, I'm perfect with whatever,

(41:52):
market has changed now and you have to learn now
new stuff. You know, it's like the bump. Yeah, there
was no Trump before with his crazy terroriffs, you know,
and it's like there's always something new going on that.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
And that's what's good about the market, isn't it. It's changing.
We have to change with it and add things, remove things.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, And a lot of that comes from mindset, you know.
Always before you start trading any strategy, just ask yourself.
So and it's very easy when you look at the
back test, you know. So if you see a back
test shows you that you know, back in time, in
the last six months, we see that there were five
consecutive losses in a row strategy like producing really nice numbers,

(42:40):
but there were at some point five consecutive losses. So
when five consecutive losses happens again for you, yes, and
for some strange law, it probably will happen now when
you just started. Yeah, so what you're going to do, like,
how will you work with that? You know? And if
you've read too much portrayed, you will be in trouble

(43:02):
and probably by you know, just risk three percent on
the trade and by by lost number three you will
quit and call it b S.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
You know, it doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah, but if you're risk half percent or quarter of
a percent by lost number five, you will say, okay,
five is normal for this type of strategy. If we
get one or two more, then I kind of invalidate
it and okay, I'll get back to the drawing board.
But after that five there is much big chance the

(43:35):
strategy will just recover and go on. You know. So
that's the thing and all that is in your mindset, right.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
And I think would you see earlier we touched on
prop firms and we didn't really talk too much more
about it, but obviously it's a it's a big thing.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Right, now.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
I mean from my point of view as an educator,
it's a massive thing, and I'm sure your point of
view it is because it helps people. The issue I
have is that people will come to me and go, look,
I want to join your course. I like what you do,
You've been around for years, good reviews or the rest
of it, but I can't afford it, or I've got

(44:12):
a five thousand dollars course. I can't justify it to
the wife or to someone like that. And I've always said, look,
I fully get that, and I respect that, understand it.
But I'm teaching you how to do something. Whether you've
got five thousand dollars or five million dollars, I don't know,

(44:32):
and it doesn't really worry me. I'm still teaching you
the same thing. And a prop firm is obviously opened
up that ability for someone who doesn't or either have
funds or want to put their own into it, to
obviously trade significant funds. The issue, of course, is, like
we've just touched with everything going on up here, is

(44:53):
that people see it as a quick fix and they
see it as an easy way to give up their
job which they hate, or something like that. Because they
see it as a way of making money without doing
that homework and spending six months twelve months on demo
small live account to trade properly first. And I see

(45:16):
that all the time, and I'm sure that you must
see that as well.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
I believe this opened up a big opportunity for people.
As you said, of course all the profirms, but I
do as well understand that it's a lot of people
see it as a quick cook fix. Yes, you know,
I just kind of confirming what you said. But at

(45:43):
the same time, especially last year around February, we saw
a lot of pro firms go bankrupt. You know, yeah,
this is disappeared. So we started her you know, hearing
these stories, but this problem is scam, that pro firm scam.
Then then we we like I'm in some groups on

(46:05):
Facebook and I see newbies trading, trading and sharing their
you know, experience with proforms, and pretty much every week
at least one post will be something like, oh, this
profirm doesn't pay it's a scam, you know. So and
all that funny thing to me is like how all

(46:25):
this works. You know. It's like previously, all these pro
firms they've been there for like ages. Yeah, but now
the studying being available to retail traders, you know, like
as I say, like people who are on the nine
to five job at McDonald's and now they can trade
with a properm you know, so these people doesn't have

(46:48):
the right mindset to look at it, so they will
look at it that profirm. Oh they didn't pay me, Yeah,
they didn't pay because you breached your drawdown limits. You know,
you refuse to believe that. Then you'd rather go online
and spread nonsense and bad bord about it instead of
actually taking a look at it understanding that you've made

(47:09):
a mistake that you could not do. And Properms doesn't
want us a trader, you know more, you open ten
trays of the same kind, they luckily hit the profit
target just because of luck, and they don't pay you.
And now you're mad, you know, because that's not what
they're looking for. They want to filter out good traders

(47:30):
and say, and always give this like a like a
really nice how to say that analogy? Yeah, just looking
for that number. If you can bear with me for
a second, it's like, shure, where is it? You miss
a second? Old record run? So there is this there's

(48:01):
this analogy that I give so so basically, there's a
world record to run one mile. You know, I'm a runner,
so that's like it's fascinating to me. So there's a
guy in the world I can't pronounce his name, Elgur
some so he holds a world record for fastest mile

(48:24):
he runs, you know, and it was like three minutes
forty three seconds. So three minutes forty three seconds to
run a mile. There's one guy on earth who can
do that. Now, imagine if prow firms would put a
drawdown limit, like look at his analogy, and they would say,
you have to run a mile in three forty three

(48:45):
Guess how many people can actually pass this challenge and
get fund with that? Only one? Only one person, you know. Now,
imagine if they say, oh, you can run a mile
in thirty minutes to nine thirty minutes, you know, everybody
would be you know, yes, but can you then further

(49:06):
sustain that running and do it? Well, yeah, of course not.
You know, if you if you can run a mile
in twenty nine minutes, like you're like the most unfitted person,
like you know. So so instead problems said, okay, what
if we look for people that can run a mile.

(49:27):
Let's say in seven minutes, you know, and it will
be a challenge even for me. You know, I was
like five six seven minutes. Let's say that range. You know.
So if you can run a mile in six minutes,
there's probably very few people in your town that can
actually do that.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
They can do that properly, yeah, and consistently.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah. So that's what problems are looking for good traders
that can demonstrate consistently that they can make money. They
don't need to make huge amounts, they don't need to
double accounts, they don't need to make consistent to ten
percent ever, remand because it's not a salary, doesn't work
that way. You know. So when people come to trading

(50:12):
and how much money can I make with your software,
it's like there are so many questions now before I
can answer this, It's like, yeah, how suppose I know.
It's like I don't know what's your capital, I don't know.
There are so many things. I just can't answer that question.
And oh, you're a scammer, you don't know, you know.

(50:32):
So people are very.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Fast, and when you give people a realistic number, a
low realistic number, they tell you it's rubbish and I
can do bigger somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, yeah, And I would say like, yeah, you can
do like half percent a month, and it's like I
don't want that, you know, go somewhere else. Yeah, go
somewhere else. So that's the thing. So the way I
look at proverbs, they're looking for really good runners, so
to speak, you know, and there are only a few

(51:03):
in your town. Will you be one of them? And
imagine how much time it would take you to train
to actually run that mile that fast? Yes, you know,
so imagine now how much time it will take you
and how much effort you have to put in to
become a trader word passing the challenge and trading with

(51:25):
a proverb, and all these rules that they have, all
these drawdown limits and everything there are here so they
could filter out all these lucky gamblers and you know,
these kind of people basically because they want good runners.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Absolutely, And I think that that's such a great analogy.
I've not heard the running one. I am from a
personal point of view. You know, there's a number of
things that I've learned over the years that I have
found difficult but I wanted to do, and I think
wanting to do it is high half the battle and
that's the issue I see with prop films. People say

(52:04):
they want to pass a prop firm, but it's like,
do you want to do that groundwork, that homework and
really want to do it. As I've been playing the
guitar for the last three years, I've just started to
learn to sing.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
This year, I really want to do it.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
I practice half an hour an hour every single day.
I've got my guitar and microphone just sat right here
next to me, you know, because I want to do
it properly.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
I get good tuition.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Twelve years ago I learned to fly helicopter, you know,
and same thing obviously with that that if you can't
it's one of those things that not many people can
do because it's so difficult.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
And you have to put a huge amount of hours.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
And it's not just flying it, it's all the other stuff.
It's the bookwork, the law, how your body works, the maps,
the clouds, the you know, the navigation, the mechanics of it.
All that goes into it. Before you even you know,
start a turbine or a piston engine. There's so much
more to it that hundreds and hundreds of hours that

(53:09):
go into something like that, and once you pass your license,
you're then starting to learn and trading is the same,
isn't it. Like we said earlier, we're constantly learning, constantly
developing and adapting. And I think I have that fear
that we're trading because online it's made to look so
easy that most people fail to.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
Understand that this.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Whether it's again it's whether it's manual trading, or whether
it's automated trading. So much time and dedication and that
desire to want to do it is missing from so
many people.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
They see a quick fix.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
All I get the email to go, I've got five
hundred dollars, but I want to quip my job and
make five.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Thousand dollars a week.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
It's like, how do you How on earth do you
think that's going to ever happen?

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Yeah, I look what you've just written.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
They quit the job, and it's like, what are you
going to do next? Oh, I'm gonna learn this for
X thing? You know, And they call it for X
thing because it's just very new to them.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
You know, that's right, it's work.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yeah, let's move on to talk lifestyles because we're probably
gone close.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
On an hour. Both of us have lifestyles.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
That we've created that probably a number of years ago
we didn't have and and trading.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
In both of our cases has helped.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
You know.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
We we work around our trading, and I think we
both love life and do things because we're motivated, hard workers.
Let let's everybody know you know about your running, and
you're what what's developed in your life out of that family,
et cetera.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Yeah, I will begin with we're saying how I admire
you learning to sing and the guitar and everything.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
I remember when I was in high school, I really
dreamed about becoming a singer and even wrote songs back then,
probably have like ten or twelve songs written like yeah
and becks. But I never was a good singer. I
tried to be, but I didn't put enough effort into that,
and I quit it when it started, you know, working

(55:20):
college and all the things. I stopped it. And always
look at this as a good example of what you
just said. You know, it's like you really have to
want it, you know, probably didn't want bad enough, you know,
you know. Yeah, so yeah, the lifestyle. I built something

(55:43):
for myself that always wanted a lifestyle like this, and
I'm still building it. You know. So always wanted to
travel the world and always wanted to be the guy
with a laptop who can go anywhere and just do it,
do the work, you know. So that's what I'm doing.
So I'm pretty much traveling almost every month. It's like

(56:08):
last month, I just got back from Greece. You know,
April I was in Miami. March didn't travel anywhere. February
I was in California, Arizona, Utah, you know, like traveler
travel there a bit. So yeah, so this month, like

(56:29):
the sat I'm going to for like five days. I
love it. I love hiking in the mountains and stuff
like that, you know. So that's that's the lifestyle of
book for myself, because there are so many places in
the world where I would like to travel and experience
it and see different cultures and being different mountains, do

(56:52):
different runs and you know, and the and if you
have just like two weeks of vacation every year, which
most people that's what they have, it's pretty much very
difficult to do that. And I was that guy before,
you know, and I would get my two weeks of
vacation and I would usually go somewhere where you want

(57:16):
to just relax, because that's all we have like two
occasions to relax, you know. So basically now I'm building
it this way that I could work and travel, and
my trading and my software business allows me to do that,
So that's that's really nice. Apart from that, I see

(57:42):
myself just pretty much doing sports running. I really love hiking,
and doing hiking outside of the country is the best
best hikes you can find, you know, Europe and pretty
much everywhere. Way you see the mountains Zealand, no I haven't,
I haven't got and still in the window, Yeah I

(58:07):
can imagine, and I still remember your invitation. So still
I'm building myself towards that I really need to go
that far, you know, but yeah, I really need to
plan for it actually, So you know, it's like being
in Europe. It's it's easy there. We have everything there

(58:28):
and it's just like two three hours away. Yes, so
it's like a no brainer to book a flight for
like five seven days to go somewhere, you know, in
the mountains.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Well, I was just looking at the map behind me.
I don't know if you can see it. My moved
the right way. New Zealand's not even on that map.
Oh yeah, when we were talking earlier, going, I can
see where you are up there, but where am I.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
I'm not even on there.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Straight there from New Zealand doesn't even show.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
It's not even on there.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
We have some lovely mountains and some great outdoor ramps
or we call them here tramping or hiking. Yeah, so
you'd be very welcome to come over here. So what's
the hiking done for you? Like, obviously we both love
the outdoors. We're on eleven acres here. We grow as
much food as we can of our own. I've got

(59:22):
my chickens and you know, we grow everything, cook our
own food. From the health point of view and the
enjoyment and the fitness point of view, grounding being outside.
These glasses, like I said to you earlier, don't need them.
They're not glasses there for blue light, for screens and things.
So all those type of things, the health things I'm
a bit older than you are, you know, to me

(59:45):
become really really important because obviously stood looking at a
chart or a screen or like you with coding, we've
got to have that balance and that blend between getting outside,
getting in the dirt, getting green, running, flying, whatever it
might be really important, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Yeah, it is. And when when you look at the
way I look at hiking and all my trail runs,
you know, like I love running long distances. Not that
I do that very often, yes, you know, but I
would try to escape at least once a year somewhere
where I can do one of my crazy runs. But
I would say something like fifty kilometers or more, you know,

(01:00:26):
when you when you're running one go. And we we've
done some pretty interesting runs with with my with my friend.
You know, I have one crazy friend that can run
for like his record is one hundred miles in one go.
You know, he's that crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
What would roughly would that take to do? Like length
of time? Roughly how long would that be?

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
I think it took him like twenty twenty six hours
Maybe I can't remember exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and they did
that in uh they did that in Finland during the
time where there's always a day, ye kind of you know. Yeah,
they did that. I think they slept for like half

(01:01:09):
an hour maybe or something. Yeah. It was nuts, like
he said, like never ever, but you know, he wanted to.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
Try himself take it off the list.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Yeah, so I'm not crazy. Like him yet, but but
I will always find myself challenging for you know, for
these things. So the craziest run we did with him
was that we've run across Lithuania from top to bottom.
That was five hundred kilometers and we did that in

(01:01:38):
nine days. So that's what's pretty much like there were
days like fifty to seventy kilometers we would be running,
you know, pretty much all day. You run, and you
get some rest, you run again.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
And this what's why helicopter I'll just fly it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
But all this like imagine again, like yeah, you need
like strong legs and you know, old endurance and ever,
but you also need this mindset. That's like because a
lot of times the mind will tell you stop now,
it's enough, yes, But actually it's just you know, it's
just lying to you. You can go way further than

(01:02:22):
that than you you know, And I believe that's an
important part for me building that mindset to be stronger
and stronger, because we need a strong mindset in trading
as well and in life in general. You know. So
obviously there are many ways to improve your mindset, and
but that's one way of of how I'm doing it,

(01:02:44):
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
I did karate for about ten years. You tend maybe
a bit more.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Put all my kids through it and some of the
gratings that you do when you're absolutely completely shattered, the
grading to get your belt, when you start getting into
the high grades, and when you're in a sense a
teacher level, they know you can do it. They know
you're good enough. Otherwise they wouldn't put you through for

(01:03:10):
the grading. What they want to see is how much
can you go through that pain? How much do you
really really want it? Rather than going, oh, I'm giving
up this too hard, you know, and like you said,
if you're doing these, you know, tournaments or you know,
whether it's exercises, whatever it might be, and they go

(01:03:32):
just stick out that stick at it, and you take
your head in your mind off somewhere else, and then
all of a sudden you've done another hundred of them
or push ups or whatever it might be that you
thought one hundred ago I was completely dead and I
can't do this, so you can do it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
Like you said, it's up here, how much do you
want to get.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Through that thing?

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Take yourself somewhere else in the mind, and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
As there same in training, like whatever, you get stuck
because it's just lost. You know, I don't know, five
seven trades in a row, whatever, Just just think about
it like this mindset thing. If you have strong mindset enough,
you will not quit it. You know, it's okay to pause,
it's okay to call it a failure today. You can

(01:04:18):
get back tomorrow or day after, you know, and look
at it with fresh new look and just going to
get too emotional, you know. So you need a strong
mindset in that because there will be bad days, bad months.
And so that's the thing. If somebody buys a car,
they would probably never expect to not have a scratch

(01:04:41):
on a car that somebody will bump with the doors,
or even they get into a small accident somewhere and
scratch a car or whatever. Like it would be silly
to not expect it, you know, because it just happens
every day. So if you go into trading and you
expect to to never have a losing week or losing month,

(01:05:03):
you know, that's just like it doesn't sound right. Yeah,
there will be these things, So you have to you
have to build your mindset the right way to be
able to lift through that. Basically, yeah, not quite too soon.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Absolutely, that's fascinating and and like just I think from
a practical point of view. In summarizing that, one of
the things I always stress, especially when people are on
prop firms is make sure your risk is very, very
low per trade. I think that's huge because, like you said,
you can have several trades all getting stopped at in

(01:05:39):
a row.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
It's not going to wipe you out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
It also means that if you have trades that are
high reward to risk, within a couple of trades, you
back to break even and back into positive territory. And
it's having that confidence in that strategy and that system
and getting that money management right that all become heed
that I believe to trading a trade of success.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
It's like the whole thing that we talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Whether it's running or karate or whatever it is, they
all blend. They're all the same, aren't they. Trading is
another one of those things.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Imagine if you if you try to run a mile
and break a record, you know, even your personal record.
Let's say it is like I don't know, let's say
it's seven seven minutes. Yeah, and you're trying to break
a personal record, So imagine how many times you'll have
to do it and actually train hard to break your
personal record. Yes, every time you try it and you fail,

(01:06:37):
just think of it like a lost trade. You know,
you just lost the trade. You just lost it, you know,
and you might try ten times, you might try fifteen times,
but eventually we break it, you know, a personal record.
And then when you look at it this way, you
realize if you if you risk small enough on every trade,

(01:06:57):
that it allows you to survive I don't know, like
twenty trades, like in a row, you're still in the game.
You know. From that kind of perspective, when you look
at it, it doesn't hurt you emotionally too much if
you hit a stop loss again and again. If I
always say like, if you just hit a stop loss

(01:07:19):
and it hurts you emotionally or even physically, you know,
so it means you were risking too much on that trade.
Otherwise it wouldn't like like, yeah, I was given an
example the other day and says like, okay, so you
want to get into prop trading, Just go and buy
an account ninety bucks like ft more whatever, like ninety dollars. Yeah,

(01:07:42):
just small, like ten ten k, and people would be like, oh,
I'm not ready. I don't know this. I don't know that.
It's like, yeah, that's that's like people imagine when they
start running, they don't know nothing about running other than
like they were running and there were kids, you know,
so you know how to play strades, you clip, buy
and sell. Yeah, and you're like, yeah, so that's pretty

(01:08:03):
much the same as a kid knowing how to run.
You just you just run, you know. So if you
want to start running and training for a marathon, now,
so what do you do? Like, you just buy your
running shoes for longer distances and you go running. Maybe
you'll run two kilometers, maybe five, I don't know, but
you just start and you run, and then you will

(01:08:23):
fail to run a marathon for probably a thousand times
until you actually can do it, because your first run
will be one or two kilometers. You will suck, it
will be slow, you know. But that's the thing. So
you buy your first challenge account and you go try,
and it will be very not perfect. You will blow it.
You will make mistakes, you will, but you will get

(01:08:43):
yourself in the game and you will start trading, you know.
And then yeah, but then you apply that one knowledge
to risk very small amount and you can start playing
with something like twenty five dollars a trade. Yes, so
you just so you basically like in reality you're risking
your ninety bucks in reality that you actually paid for

(01:09:07):
the problem, you know, and inside the proper count you're
risking twenty five, which is not actually even real money,
you know. So how can this hurt you? So if
you're failing trade after trade, and this hurts you because
you're failing, not because of the amount, it means you're

(01:09:27):
getting too emotional. You need a stronger mindset, you know.
So you have to do something about it now. So
you have to improve and look at this and that.
But that's what gets you stubborn and go out there
and look for solutions and improve yourself and learn more
and more. So I believe that's probably one of the
best ways to get into the field, isn't it. Like Look,

(01:09:50):
you just start knowing that you're not perfect and knowing
that the first few tries will not be good, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
But as I was, you accumulating knowledge.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Yes, hey, remind us, I think we should probably call
it a day.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
There.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
We've been going for we said maybe half an hour.
I think we're probably about a hour and fifteen or twenty.
We could talk for hours. How can people find you?
How can people contact you? Obviously I can put a
link here somewhere as well, but what's the best way
for people to get hold of you?

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
We have multiple websites, but probably the two most popular.
That's the fxmagnetic dot com. Yes or empty for Copper
dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
Yes, nice, awesome, thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Hello, Anything you want to add or we've covered a
fair bit obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
I would say like we've probably covered.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
We've covered lots. We could go for another hour and
a half and do another one one day. Hey, I
just wanted an absolute pleasure to finally get you face
to face with you. We need to do it in
person one day. I really really enjoy that. And thank
you so much for your time today. Fascinating insights into

(01:11:09):
your thoughts and mindset and everything you do. Congratulations on
everything that you've achieved in the industry.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Thanks Andrew, Thanks Andrew, thanks for having you there for
thanks for the invitation, and for everything you do for
traders as well.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Awesome. Take care, have a great day over there, you too.