July 13, 2025 • 18 mins
How to Pass Prop Firm Challenges with Andrew Mitchem & Etienne Crete Podcast: Find out more about Blueberry Markets – Click Here Find out more about my Online Video Forex Course Book a Call with Andrew or one of his team now Click Here to Watch Prop Firm Masterclass #596: How to Pass Prop Firm Challenges with Andrew Mitchem & Etienne Crete In this video: 00:05 – Passing a prop firm challenge. 00:19 – Talking prop firm challenges with Etienne Crete. 00:45 – Horror stories from traders starting a prop firm too early. 02:08 – How to start trading on a prop firm account. 03:13 – How to pick a prop firm. 06:10 – How much should you risk per trade. 08:10 – Treat a demo, a live and a prop firm account the same. 10:25 – Have a proven strategy first before getting on a prop firm account. 15:28 – Does the prop firm have the markets you trade available? 17:15 – How to find us and how to join us at The Forex Trading Coach Passing a prop firm challenge. Andrew Mitchem If you're on a $10,000 prop firm, you know, you you're risking quite tiny amounts, but that's fine, you know? But just go very, very small because just don't get stopped out and you'll eventually, you know, if you're trading good enough, you'll eventually get to that profit target. Talking prop firm challenges with Etienne Crete. Etienne Crete Sitting down today with Andrew Mitchem. we want to do an episode specifically about prop firms and what it takes to become a funded trader, but also kind of scale things up. And you get to the next level of performance to scale it up to, we can make more money trading with more capital. So Andrew welcome back on the podcast. Continue here. Etienne Crete Let's start with this. I actually get people who reach out to you and kind of ask you about prop firms and how they should go about it. What's your first train of thought into what is the right time to go for prop firm? Horror stories from traders starting a prop firm too early. Andrew Mitchem Okay, I find that so many people tell me stories. In that kind of horror stories, they jump in too quick. And I think people aren't doing it realistically. They jump in because they see it as maybe I don't have enough money myself. And it's a it's a good way of potentially earning funds and, and commissions, etc., but they don't have any, background into trading properly themselves. Andrew Mitchem You know, they don't have a strategy, the confident in them. And they have proven themselves first. And I think that's the pitfall that too many people jump into. Etienne Crete Definitely like trying to get capital before you are profitable trader. Andrew Mitchem Yeah. I mean, I just tell people maybe you look at it and, you know, 6 to 12 months time, be real about this. Yes, look prop firm can be absolutely fantastic once you know what you're doing. But spend some time upfront to learn the process of trading. Forget how much money you make. Don't even look at money. Andrew Mitchem Just understand the process of trading. You know, low risk, etc., low drawdowns, because ultimately that's the thing. It's going to get you through a pot firm. And if you don't understand that hitting that drawdown criteria is what's going to make you lose your money. Etienne Crete How do you someone interested in the process? Because a lot of people are going to, of course, focus on the outcome, trying to get the result, how do you get them to, first of all, follow the process? But they kind of have to be interested in then involved in it too. Andrew Mitchem How to start trading on a prop firm account. Andrew Mitchem Yeah, it's a tricky one because everybody wants the results and everybody wants the money. I suppose all I can do is probably a little bit like is keep going on and on and on with the same story, because ultimately that's the best way you're going to get a result. You know, you almost got beaten into people was like,
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So if you're a ten thousand dollar prop them, you
know you're you're you're risking quite chiny immants. But that's
that's fine, you know, but just go very very small
because just don't get stopped at and you'll eventually, you know,
if you're trading screwed enough, you'll eventually get to that
profit target.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Sitting down today with Andrew Mitcham, we want to do
an episode specifically about profforms and really what it takes
to becoming good fun the trailer, but also kind of
scale things up and get to that next level of
platforms to scale it up to we can make more
in trading with more capital, so and you will come
back on a podcast TV here, let's start with this.
I'm forguing people who reach out to you and kind
of ask you about performs and how this would go
(00:39):
about it. What's your first train of talk into When
is the right time to go for proforms? Okay?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I find that so many people tell many stories and
the kind of horror stories. They jump in too quick,
and I think people aren't doing it realistically. They jump
in because they see it as maybe I don't have
enough money myself, and and it's a good way of
potentially earning fundings and commissions, et cetera. But they don't
(01:07):
have any background into trading properly themselves. You know, they
don't have a strategy. They're comforted, and they haven't proven
themselves first. And I think that's the pitfall that too
many people jump into.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Definitely twenty capital before you are a possible true.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, I mean I just tell people, maybe look at
it in you know, six to twelve months time.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Be real about this.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yes, a little prop firm can be absolutely fantastic once
you know what you're doing, but spend some time upfront
to learn the process of trading. Forget how much money
you make. Don't even look at money, just understand the
process of trading. You know, low risk, et cetera, low drawdowns,
because ultimately that's the thing it's going to get you
(01:50):
through a prop firm, And if you don't understand that,
hitting that draw down criteria is what's going to make
you lose your money.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
How do you get someone interested in the process, because
a lot of people are going to focus on the outcome,
trying to get the result. How to get them to
first of all, for the process, but they kind of
have to be interested in then involving it. Two. Yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Tricky one because everybody wants the results and everybody wants
the money. I suppose all I can do is probably
attle bit like yourself is keep going on and on
and on with the same story, because ultimately that's the
best way you're going to get a result. You know,
you've almost beat it into peoples, they please don't waste
your time or waste your money. Focus on the process
(02:30):
of knowing how to trade, or just make sure you're
consistently profitable. I just suggest to people that when they start,
use a demo, you know, for a reason, be profitable
on that, go on to a small live account, be
consistently profitable on that, then maybe a slightly bigger live account,
and use all those like that experience and those emotions
(02:51):
that you're going to have, and get that right first
before go on onto a prop firm, because otherwise you're
just spending five hundred don't wasting your money.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
In terms of proform, there's a lot of tours out
there you can pick, of course, so many different names
as ones that's been around for a longer time, some
that are newer in the more competitive or kind of
nicer offerings, how do you actually get to pick the profferm?
I know, maybe have some does on this, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
No, it's I suppose you want to look at potentially
you know, a company's been run for a long time.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
That's that's always a suppose a good starting point.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
But the other one is I like, personally, I like
prop firms that have slightly bigger drawdown allowances. And there's
some of those that I personally use that have two
stages of a challenge before we go to light money.
A lot of them would have like a ten percent
profit target and maybe like a five percent drawdain. I
(03:46):
think that's just a little bit of a tight criteria
for a lot of people, whereas I'm now using prop
firms that have a maybe like a ten percent profit
ten percent drawdain and then you go on to another
stage where you have to maybe make like a five
percent profit again and within a ten percent DRAWDWN and
(04:06):
then you go to real money. So yes, it might
take longer, but having that bigger drawdown just to allow
it a little bit more wiggle room for you as
a trader. And I also think it's really important that
people don't have a prop firm that has a time restriction.
I really would avoid that when you see these prop
(04:28):
firms that say you've got to do this, you know,
ten percent within thirty days, and then realistically that might
only be say twenty trading days, you know, and then
the market conditions aren't good every day, so you know,
they almost force you to gamble. So I would have
something that doesn't force you on a time restriction to
(04:48):
get to your profit target, and also something allows a
slightly bigger draw down.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I think the time rule is mostly gone for a
lot of fums. Most have this anymore as a rule
because people will retired of it. I think the rule
that now is kind of thing for people. For people,
this is the trailing drada. So the more your profit,
even if your trees are open but no cause yet
that counters through highest like profit level, your highest watermark,
(05:14):
then the Jonald Scacklard from there. So you could have
a tree everyone's like really fast and goes back and
then that hits to your dry on level.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yes, so I suppose a lot of that then comes
back to as mentioned to try and have a prop
firm that has a little bit bigger draw hand to
give you that flexibility, but also don't rush to pass it.
And probably you know the way that obviously everybody fails
on a prop firm is they hit the draw down
(05:41):
and gets stopped out or you know, they get closed.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So making sure that.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Your risk portrayed is very, very low, I think is
crucial as well. You know, yes it may take let's
say you're doing on your own normal account, it might
take you a month, but let's say half that risk
again and it might take you two months. It's like, well,
really it shouldn't matter. Just pass the thing within the
doordown is the is the most important point, not how
(06:07):
long it takes you.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
How do you calculate the risk for a trade that
you should go with a specific number that you always follow,
or is there some mad behind it or what do
you do people to focus on?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
For me, I'm just talking purely me personally. I mean
what people do is entirely up to them. Of course,
I personally risk only a quarter of one percent of
my account on a trade. And if I split that
position into two, which quite often I do, you know,
like if I'm taking a by trade, I'll take a
market order and a buy limit just the way that
I trade, I'll have like an eighth of one percent
(06:41):
of my risk on each of those two positions. So
in other words, if both positions got stopped at, I
lose only a quarter of one percent. So you know,
you need effectively four whole trades to go wrong to
lose one percent, you know. So, yes, it will take
me longer to get to the profit target because naturally
(07:03):
my gains will be smaller as a percentage. But the
chances of me being stopped out and blowing that account
are really quite quite small.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I know all the people have this issue of this.
They oh, well, of course I can do this because
they have a big account. But what about guys who
have a small account. They trade will maybe ten dousand
dollars might have be a warth thick all the trades
with point twenty five percent?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
How would they call about it? Oh, they can still
do that.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I mean, if you're on a prop firm, you know,
with a I mean most people that like to sort
of speak to are slightly higher amounts on a prop them.
But yeah, and look, I suppose if you're on a
ten thousand dollar prop them, you know you're you're you're
risking quite tiny amounts, but that's that's fine. You know,
one percent is one hundred dollars, so you're risking twenty
(07:45):
five dollars per trade on a ten thousand dollar account,
it's still the same risk percentage. I mean, I think, yeah,
if you went down to a tenth thousand, you might
have a little bit more difficulty with real accurate position sizing.
But just go very very small because just don't get
stopped out, and you'll eventually, you know, if you're trading
(08:07):
is good enough, you'll eventually get to that profit target.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
One of the beliefs people have is that the way
you pass the evaluation is different from the way you
should trade the account once you're funded, Like they try
to pass more aggressively to kind of get the account
faster in defilda other about a new one when they
get funded. The gore bids law or a bit kind
of more like a structured Do you agree with that
or do you kind of treat everything the same and
just following seeing stuff all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I treated exactly the same. I mean, that's to me,
that's how I would do it. And I see why
people do that, But I don't think you should and
One of the things I've always trying to do with
prop firms is not even really look at trading.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I don't trade the prop firm as such.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I personally put my prop firm onto a virtual server
with a bit of trade cop your software, and I
just focus on trading my own live account because if
I can trade that one, you know on it. Because
they're hiding the heart or two things that play with
people's mind, aren't they when it goes real money, you know,
it's emotions. So why do I want to see like
(09:07):
multiple one hundred, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars accounts
behind the scenes, because it starts to play with your brain.
To me, it's easier to focus on your live account
or even a demo. But let's see your own personal
account and get that one trading in the right direction properly,
and then have those same trades mirrored behind the scenes.
(09:30):
I just think that's so much easier because if I
have let's say five prop firms, I'm not wanting to
go into every single one and calculate the risk and
the lot size and it's like, oh, now I want
a close part of the position, or I going five
times that's just a pain. Focus on one account, trade
it properly, and have it copy behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That's a good point. You don't have to look at
the account. I feel like a lot of people have
pressure from the fact that they're funded, of the fact
that they pass and then they can lose a capital.
If you don't think about it, just treated this account,
then that definitely makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Absolutely, take take the motion out of it as best
you can, because realistically, if you're on a hundred thousand
wid money, you know not many people are used to
doing that with their own accounts, so it can really
start to play with you with your head.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
So just focus on your normal account, get that right,
do nothing different.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It's good to some of the someone that save people
make with proferms. What do you see as the main
ones that people make on legal for a proferm?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, I think it it's either not choosing the right one,
but it's about not having their strategy sorted first. I
think that's the biggest issue. It's that, honestly, is that
jumping in too early onto a prop for them when
as a person and as a trader, you're probably not ready.
So I would just say to people, just give themselves
(10:52):
a realistic chance of getting it right, because you've got
to have confidence, full confidence in your ability to trade
that strategy before you go into it, because like you said,
you might just fluke and get through your your demo
account or you know, but when it comes to real
you start self dancing. So I just think, yeah, it's
(11:12):
getting that confidence in yourself, your strategy, your ability to
do this properly over a period of time, and then
consider it.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Have you fail any proflem accounts before?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yep I did in the early age?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yep I did, and I ended up taking a few
traits that were too big a risk and they got
stopped at And so I learned from that, you know
pretty early on that.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Just go lower and lower risk.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
It's interesting because a lot of people see proframs like
a thing you pain, then you should get the account.
And sometimes, like in training, you can never really pretty
equal a trade will work out or not. So it's
good to take a step back. And except you could
lose an account too. You could get funded and lose
it and just have to kind of kill a consistency
and get back to it to get a new account. Possibly,
But yeah, every want to understand.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It's when I probably you know, was risking a little bit.
I mean only very very low amana to risk, but
I had multiple trades open, and like you said, they
take that. I didn't hit the stop loss level, but
with the open trades and the amount of open trades,
it did it. And I suddenly looked at it one
day knowing I was pretty safe, and I go, oh,
that's sort of they've closed my account. And I wasn't
(12:22):
aware of that rule. So it's another thing to be
aware of. So that's why I reduced the trades, reduced
the risk for trade, and ever since the end up
being fine.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
What do you think profers are going? I think it's
been a lot of things. The past few years has
been some profers causing down because they had maybe bad practices.
Some of the ones are opening up. Of course, a
lot of these new ones, they kind of always tried
to lord the price and then always kind of try
them in the rules match each other. Also, why do
you think that's going. What do you think it's going
to become in the future of these proferms.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It is a tricky and I suppose that you know
I'm now personally using those ones that have been ran
for quite some time, and I'm using ones that are
associated with good brokers behind the scenes, who I trade
with any way and know. So those are my kind
of criteria when selecting a prop firm. You know, I
(13:12):
know who they're using as a broker. I know the
brokers are good. I know that they're big. I know
that there's no issues with the being able to tage
a trade, and I think that's probably the key where
it's going.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Well, you're right.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I mean, we went through a stage who or a
couple of years ago when a whole heap of them
appeared and then disappeared. There was a few issues a
few years ago when some of them couldn't trade Meditrador
than they could then they couldn't. I think that sorted
a lot of them at Yeah, at the moment, I
personally don't look at new ones. I'm not really kind
(13:48):
of aware of who's out there. I've got my ones
who I like and I'm kind of sticking with them.
And I think leading on from that is that when
you do find one who you like and you like
the rule and your payouts a good et cetera, then
what's to stop you not opening more accounts, you know,
rather than going searching for another prop film company. You know,
(14:12):
you could, like, as an example, I've got a client,
one of my clients in Singapore who each week opens
a new prop firm account. It's just constantly opening new
accounts and so he you know, some of them might
get stopped out, but some of them will be hitting
profit like now, and you know, and just with market conditions,
you never know what's going to happen. So he's constantly
going through evaluation, passing, evaluation, maybe failing evaluation, passing, and
(14:37):
just keeping lots of them going. And you know, that's
his aim is to get up to a million dollars
pretty quickly on live accounts. And it's like good on him.
But rather than having a million dollar one account and
you know, blowing it, why not have lots of smaller
accounts constantly being opened and you're accumulated, know, totals a
(15:00):
million or possibly more. I think that's another really good
way of training because you kind of then if you
do have a bad week or so, you're.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Kind of not like losing everything in one go.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I think it's a good point where you definitely got
to iretify with different proforms too. I just wouldn't trust
one part from by itself. Surely may be a rauma.
They might have a glitious, the issues of technology or
something that will make it tough to trade. And having
these other accounts can be definitely useful.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, and also making sure that the prop firm that
you choose has the markets that you trade, you know,
if you like as a forest trader, yes, I now
look at metals and cryptos and commodities, et cetera like that,
So I want to make sure that prop firm offers
those There's no good me in my real trading saying,
taking maybe twenty percent of my trades as non forests pairs,
(15:49):
and then I go to a prop firm, Oh, they
don't offer bigcoin, or they don't offer gold against the
Aussie or anything like that, you know, which are some
of my favorite pairs for example. So I think it's
really important that you find a prop firm that offers
what you like. Also, as an example, if you were
trading say monthly charts or weekly charts, and you might
(16:10):
want to leave those trades open over the weekend in
your real day to day trading, does that prop firm
allow you to keep trades open every weekend, you know.
So there's all these extra little things that are determined
by your own criteria, your you're trading strategy, making sure
they're aligned with their rules.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Give a preference for actual prof firm proframs or is
it sometimes of prothlems that are offer a bad walkers.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, there's there's two that I'm mostly using. I mean,
I can name them if you want.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
So.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I like the fivers.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I've used them and I think, you know, they've been
really really good and Blueberry funded. There is another, you know,
the Blueberry Markets. They're relatively new, but you know, I
know the guys at Blueberry Markets as the broker you
know pretty well, and I think that they're good.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And so by having their kind of backing with the
prop firms good.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
There's a number of other prop firms that are using
eight cap and they seem very good as well. So
I think it's important that you get that backing of
a decent broker.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Behind the scenes, there are people can get fund you,
reach out to you, they want to learn from you
or kind of ask your questions. After this this podcast, yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So my websites, Theforest Trading Coach dot com and we've
been running for sixteen years this year, so very proud
of that, and you know, probably one of the longest
companies out there, and we've got clients right around the world.
And one of the things that we do is we
specifically like to focus on that low risk but high
rewards to risk trades because that, to me is one
(17:41):
of the keys and the secrets to getting through a profit.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Definitely, if we're doing with in the descision, we tequ
therey there, hopefully they can learn from you see what
you're doing. You put a lot of stuff on YouTube
and on your podcast as well, and I appreciate you
for what you're doing definitely, so I thank you and
you appreciate it, and hopefully people can connect with you
in Yeah, well that'll be.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Soon, brilliant. Thanks for your time, et appreciate it.
So if you're a ten thousand dollar prop them, you
know you're you're you're risking quite chiny immants. But that's
that's fine, you know, but just go very very small
because just don't get stopped at and you'll eventually, you know,
if you're trading screwed enough, you'll eventually get to that
profit target.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Sitting down today with Andrew Mitcham, we want to do
an episode specifically about profforms and really what it takes
to becoming good fun the trailer, but also kind of
scale things up and get to that next level of
platforms to scale it up to we can make more
in trading with more capital, so and you will come
back on a podcast TV here, let's start with this.
I'm forguing people who reach out to you and kind
of ask you about performs and how this would go
(00:39):
about it. What's your first train of talk into When
is the right time to go for proforms? Okay?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I find that so many people tell many stories and
the kind of horror stories. They jump in too quick,
and I think people aren't doing it realistically. They jump
in because they see it as maybe I don't have
enough money myself, and and it's a good way of
potentially earning fundings and commissions, et cetera. But they don't
(01:07):
have any background into trading properly themselves. You know, they
don't have a strategy. They're comforted, and they haven't proven
themselves first. And I think that's the pitfall that too
many people jump into.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Definitely twenty capital before you are a possible true.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, I mean I just tell people, maybe look at
it in you know, six to twelve months time.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Be real about this.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yes, a little prop firm can be absolutely fantastic once
you know what you're doing, but spend some time upfront
to learn the process of trading. Forget how much money
you make. Don't even look at money, just understand the
process of trading. You know, low risk, et cetera, low drawdowns,
because ultimately that's the thing it's going to get you
(01:50):
through a prop firm, And if you don't understand that,
hitting that draw down criteria is what's going to make
you lose your money.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
How do you get someone interested in the process, because
a lot of people are going to focus on the outcome,
trying to get the result. How to get them to
first of all, for the process, but they kind of
have to be interested in then involving it. Two. Yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Tricky one because everybody wants the results and everybody wants
the money. I suppose all I can do is probably
attle bit like yourself is keep going on and on
and on with the same story, because ultimately that's the
best way you're going to get a result. You know,
you've almost beat it into peoples, they please don't waste
your time or waste your money. Focus on the process
(02:30):
of knowing how to trade, or just make sure you're
consistently profitable. I just suggest to people that when they start,
use a demo, you know, for a reason, be profitable
on that, go on to a small live account, be
consistently profitable on that, then maybe a slightly bigger live account,
and use all those like that experience and those emotions
(02:51):
that you're going to have, and get that right first
before go on onto a prop firm, because otherwise you're
just spending five hundred don't wasting your money.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
In terms of proform, there's a lot of tours out
there you can pick, of course, so many different names
as ones that's been around for a longer time, some
that are newer in the more competitive or kind of
nicer offerings, how do you actually get to pick the profferm?
I know, maybe have some does on this, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
No, it's I suppose you want to look at potentially
you know, a company's been run for a long time.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
That's that's always a suppose a good starting point.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
But the other one is I like, personally, I like
prop firms that have slightly bigger drawdown allowances. And there's
some of those that I personally use that have two
stages of a challenge before we go to light money.
A lot of them would have like a ten percent
profit target and maybe like a five percent drawdain. I
(03:46):
think that's just a little bit of a tight criteria
for a lot of people, whereas I'm now using prop
firms that have a maybe like a ten percent profit
ten percent drawdain and then you go on to another
stage where you have to maybe make like a five
percent profit again and within a ten percent DRAWDWN and
(04:06):
then you go to real money. So yes, it might
take longer, but having that bigger drawdown just to allow
it a little bit more wiggle room for you as
a trader. And I also think it's really important that
people don't have a prop firm that has a time restriction.
I really would avoid that when you see these prop
(04:28):
firms that say you've got to do this, you know,
ten percent within thirty days, and then realistically that might
only be say twenty trading days, you know, and then
the market conditions aren't good every day, so you know,
they almost force you to gamble. So I would have
something that doesn't force you on a time restriction to
(04:48):
get to your profit target, and also something allows a
slightly bigger draw down.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I think the time rule is mostly gone for a
lot of fums. Most have this anymore as a rule
because people will retired of it. I think the rule
that now is kind of thing for people. For people,
this is the trailing drada. So the more your profit,
even if your trees are open but no cause yet
that counters through highest like profit level, your highest watermark,
(05:14):
then the Jonald Scacklard from there. So you could have
a tree everyone's like really fast and goes back and
then that hits to your dry on level.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yes, so I suppose a lot of that then comes
back to as mentioned to try and have a prop
firm that has a little bit bigger draw hand to
give you that flexibility, but also don't rush to pass it.
And probably you know the way that obviously everybody fails
on a prop firm is they hit the draw down
(05:41):
and gets stopped out or you know, they get closed.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So making sure that.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Your risk portrayed is very, very low, I think is
crucial as well. You know, yes it may take let's
say you're doing on your own normal account, it might
take you a month, but let's say half that risk
again and it might take you two months. It's like, well,
really it shouldn't matter. Just pass the thing within the
doordown is the is the most important point, not how
(06:07):
long it takes you.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
How do you calculate the risk for a trade that
you should go with a specific number that you always follow,
or is there some mad behind it or what do
you do people to focus on?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
For me, I'm just talking purely me personally. I mean
what people do is entirely up to them. Of course,
I personally risk only a quarter of one percent of
my account on a trade. And if I split that
position into two, which quite often I do, you know,
like if I'm taking a by trade, I'll take a
market order and a buy limit just the way that
I trade, I'll have like an eighth of one percent
(06:41):
of my risk on each of those two positions. So
in other words, if both positions got stopped at, I
lose only a quarter of one percent. So you know,
you need effectively four whole trades to go wrong to
lose one percent, you know. So, yes, it will take
me longer to get to the profit target because naturally
(07:03):
my gains will be smaller as a percentage. But the
chances of me being stopped out and blowing that account
are really quite quite small.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I know all the people have this issue of this.
They oh, well, of course I can do this because
they have a big account. But what about guys who
have a small account. They trade will maybe ten dousand
dollars might have be a warth thick all the trades
with point twenty five percent?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
How would they call about it? Oh, they can still
do that.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I mean, if you're on a prop firm, you know,
with a I mean most people that like to sort
of speak to are slightly higher amounts on a prop them.
But yeah, and look, I suppose if you're on a
ten thousand dollar prop them, you know you're you're you're
risking quite tiny amounts, but that's that's fine. You know,
one percent is one hundred dollars, so you're risking twenty
(07:45):
five dollars per trade on a ten thousand dollar account,
it's still the same risk percentage. I mean, I think, yeah,
if you went down to a tenth thousand, you might
have a little bit more difficulty with real accurate position sizing.
But just go very very small because just don't get
stopped out, and you'll eventually, you know, if you're trading
(08:07):
is good enough, you'll eventually get to that profit target.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
One of the beliefs people have is that the way
you pass the evaluation is different from the way you
should trade the account once you're funded, Like they try
to pass more aggressively to kind of get the account
faster in defilda other about a new one when they
get funded. The gore bids law or a bit kind
of more like a structured Do you agree with that
or do you kind of treat everything the same and
just following seeing stuff all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I treated exactly the same. I mean, that's to me,
that's how I would do it. And I see why
people do that, But I don't think you should and
One of the things I've always trying to do with
prop firms is not even really look at trading.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I don't trade the prop firm as such.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I personally put my prop firm onto a virtual server
with a bit of trade cop your software, and I
just focus on trading my own live account because if
I can trade that one, you know on it. Because
they're hiding the heart or two things that play with
people's mind, aren't they when it goes real money, you know,
it's emotions. So why do I want to see like
(09:07):
multiple one hundred, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars accounts
behind the scenes, because it starts to play with your brain.
To me, it's easier to focus on your live account
or even a demo. But let's see your own personal
account and get that one trading in the right direction properly,
and then have those same trades mirrored behind the scenes.
(09:30):
I just think that's so much easier because if I
have let's say five prop firms, I'm not wanting to
go into every single one and calculate the risk and
the lot size and it's like, oh, now I want
a close part of the position, or I going five
times that's just a pain. Focus on one account, trade
it properly, and have it copy behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That's a good point. You don't have to look at
the account. I feel like a lot of people have
pressure from the fact that they're funded, of the fact
that they pass and then they can lose a capital.
If you don't think about it, just treated this account,
then that definitely makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Absolutely, take take the motion out of it as best
you can, because realistically, if you're on a hundred thousand
wid money, you know not many people are used to
doing that with their own accounts, so it can really
start to play with you with your head.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
So just focus on your normal account, get that right,
do nothing different.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It's good to some of the someone that save people
make with proferms. What do you see as the main
ones that people make on legal for a proferm?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, I think it it's either not choosing the right one,
but it's about not having their strategy sorted first. I
think that's the biggest issue. It's that, honestly, is that
jumping in too early onto a prop for them when
as a person and as a trader, you're probably not ready.
So I would just say to people, just give themselves
(10:52):
a realistic chance of getting it right, because you've got
to have confidence, full confidence in your ability to trade
that strategy before you go into it, because like you said,
you might just fluke and get through your your demo
account or you know, but when it comes to real
you start self dancing. So I just think, yeah, it's
(11:12):
getting that confidence in yourself, your strategy, your ability to
do this properly over a period of time, and then
consider it.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Have you fail any proflem accounts before?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yep I did in the early age?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yep I did, and I ended up taking a few
traits that were too big a risk and they got
stopped at And so I learned from that, you know
pretty early on that.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Just go lower and lower risk.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
It's interesting because a lot of people see proframs like
a thing you pain, then you should get the account.
And sometimes, like in training, you can never really pretty
equal a trade will work out or not. So it's
good to take a step back. And except you could
lose an account too. You could get funded and lose
it and just have to kind of kill a consistency
and get back to it to get a new account. Possibly,
But yeah, every want to understand.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It's when I probably you know, was risking a little bit.
I mean only very very low amana to risk, but
I had multiple trades open, and like you said, they
take that. I didn't hit the stop loss level, but
with the open trades and the amount of open trades,
it did it. And I suddenly looked at it one
day knowing I was pretty safe, and I go, oh,
that's sort of they've closed my account. And I wasn't
(12:22):
aware of that rule. So it's another thing to be
aware of. So that's why I reduced the trades, reduced
the risk for trade, and ever since the end up
being fine.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
What do you think profers are going? I think it's
been a lot of things. The past few years has
been some profers causing down because they had maybe bad practices.
Some of the ones are opening up. Of course, a
lot of these new ones, they kind of always tried
to lord the price and then always kind of try
them in the rules match each other. Also, why do
you think that's going. What do you think it's going
to become in the future of these proferms.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It is a tricky and I suppose that you know
I'm now personally using those ones that have been ran
for quite some time, and I'm using ones that are
associated with good brokers behind the scenes, who I trade
with any way and know. So those are my kind
of criteria when selecting a prop firm. You know, I
(13:12):
know who they're using as a broker. I know the
brokers are good. I know that they're big. I know
that there's no issues with the being able to tage
a trade, and I think that's probably the key where
it's going.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Well, you're right.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I mean, we went through a stage who or a
couple of years ago when a whole heap of them
appeared and then disappeared. There was a few issues a
few years ago when some of them couldn't trade Meditrador
than they could then they couldn't. I think that sorted
a lot of them at Yeah, at the moment, I
personally don't look at new ones. I'm not really kind
(13:48):
of aware of who's out there. I've got my ones
who I like and I'm kind of sticking with them.
And I think leading on from that is that when
you do find one who you like and you like
the rule and your payouts a good et cetera, then
what's to stop you not opening more accounts, you know,
rather than going searching for another prop film company. You know,
(14:12):
you could, like, as an example, I've got a client,
one of my clients in Singapore who each week opens
a new prop firm account. It's just constantly opening new
accounts and so he you know, some of them might
get stopped out, but some of them will be hitting
profit like now, and you know, and just with market conditions,
you never know what's going to happen. So he's constantly
going through evaluation, passing, evaluation, maybe failing evaluation, passing, and
(14:37):
just keeping lots of them going. And you know, that's
his aim is to get up to a million dollars
pretty quickly on live accounts. And it's like good on him.
But rather than having a million dollar one account and
you know, blowing it, why not have lots of smaller
accounts constantly being opened and you're accumulated, know, totals a
(15:00):
million or possibly more. I think that's another really good
way of training because you kind of then if you
do have a bad week or so, you're.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Kind of not like losing everything in one go.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I think it's a good point where you definitely got
to iretify with different proforms too. I just wouldn't trust
one part from by itself. Surely may be a rauma.
They might have a glitious, the issues of technology or
something that will make it tough to trade. And having
these other accounts can be definitely useful.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, and also making sure that the prop firm that
you choose has the markets that you trade, you know,
if you like as a forest trader, yes, I now
look at metals and cryptos and commodities, et cetera like that,
So I want to make sure that prop firm offers
those There's no good me in my real trading saying,
taking maybe twenty percent of my trades as non forests pairs,
(15:49):
and then I go to a prop firm, Oh, they
don't offer bigcoin, or they don't offer gold against the
Aussie or anything like that, you know, which are some
of my favorite pairs for example. So I think it's
really important that you find a prop firm that offers
what you like. Also, as an example, if you were
trading say monthly charts or weekly charts, and you might
(16:10):
want to leave those trades open over the weekend in
your real day to day trading, does that prop firm
allow you to keep trades open every weekend, you know.
So there's all these extra little things that are determined
by your own criteria, your you're trading strategy, making sure
they're aligned with their rules.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Give a preference for actual prof firm proframs or is
it sometimes of prothlems that are offer a bad walkers.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, there's there's two that I'm mostly using. I mean,
I can name them if you want.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
So.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I like the fivers.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I've used them and I think, you know, they've been
really really good and Blueberry funded. There is another, you know,
the Blueberry Markets. They're relatively new, but you know, I
know the guys at Blueberry Markets as the broker you
know pretty well, and I think that they're good.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And so by having their kind of backing with the
prop firms good.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
There's a number of other prop firms that are using
eight cap and they seem very good as well. So
I think it's important that you get that backing of
a decent broker.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Behind the scenes, there are people can get fund you,
reach out to you, they want to learn from you
or kind of ask your questions. After this this podcast, yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So my websites, Theforest Trading Coach dot com and we've
been running for sixteen years this year, so very proud
of that, and you know, probably one of the longest
companies out there, and we've got clients right around the world.
And one of the things that we do is we
specifically like to focus on that low risk but high
rewards to risk trades because that, to me is one
(17:41):
of the keys and the secrets to getting through a profit.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Definitely, if we're doing with in the descision, we tequ
therey there, hopefully they can learn from you see what
you're doing. You put a lot of stuff on YouTube
and on your podcast as well, and I appreciate you
for what you're doing definitely, so I thank you and
you appreciate it, and hopefully people can connect with you
in Yeah, well that'll be.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Soon, brilliant. Thanks for your time, et appreciate it.
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