November 11, 2024 • 42 mins
We are finally at the end of the 2024 season and Donald Trump is once again going to be President of the United States. Cursed. The WTA Finals took place in Saudi Arabia. Truly cursed. Paris Bercy took place and was won by Alexander Zverev. Truly truly cursed. Devang and Simon do their best to unpack a moment in time which only mothers could love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hello, and welcome to the Open Era podcast. My name
is de Beg de Side. I'm joined as always by
mister Simon Bush or Bush. It's been a while, friend,
How are you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, I'm fine, Thank you. I just returned from my travels.
I picked up something. I'm not quite sure what I
got covered, the flu, sinus infection, a cold, any of
the above, maybe all of them at the same time.
So I spent the first three or four days when
I got back doing literally nothing except lying on the couch,
(00:43):
which was a nice change from a very very busy
three and a half weeks.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, a new stranger just dropped, or a new strand
just dropped. I guess as the the term midge we're
going to use for the latest virus to take over
the world. But yeah, that's that's not great. But glad
to hear you at a time. Where'd you go again?
You were all over?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, I had a pretty packed itinery so I did Edinburgh, Glasgow,
I dropped down to York for a bit, then I
went to Newcastle, Newcastle to Amsterdam, Amsterdam, U treked to
the Hague to delf back to Amsterdam and then to Paris.
So it was a pretty pretty full of Yeah, almost
(01:24):
a month I was away, so yeah, I had a
good time, but I was pretty damn tied by the
end of it.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well that makes sense, and that could just be a
traveling sickness as well, just because that's a lot of
a lot of miles in there. But glad to hear you.
Hear you had a good time. We're going to talk
about your tennis experience during this trip, which I had
to laugh at hoping to see Carlos salcraz in the
flesh and instead getting the final we got. We'll talk
about that much for sure. But should we begin with
(01:51):
the WTA finals?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Probably a good place to do that, seeing as the
WTA season has now concluded the Crown Jewel event? Is
that the right phraseology of this? The World Tour Finals
on the WTA side, won by Coco GoF winning of
A Quijang in the final, both players matching the court
color dev in the final, which I thought was a
(02:15):
nice time.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yes, looking great in purple.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Maybe this is a new theme that we should try
and add to tennis in general.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Do you think they were told to do that? Because
I felt like that was a little much almost it's
a small quibble in the grand scheme of things, but
it was.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
A lot of purple.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
That's what the next stage of the KSA's big plan
is is to color match flag. Isn't that akin to
Newcastle United's third kit being the Saudi Saudi strip.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Which I don't even know if they tried to explain
that away with any sort of link to history, But
it was a bit on the nose. But yeah, I
mean I thought the uh, you know, like the crowd
shots you get at every tournament. And I'm again I'm
not trying to be purposely antagonistic here, I'm going to
lay into everything about this in a second. How many
(03:01):
crowdshots did you see of people texting on their phone
or on their phone bust during this During this tournament.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Dev the literal, let's say, tens of people that were
in the crowd were going wild and really enraptured by
what was going on in this event. We have had
a few stinkers, haven't we. For WTA finals were twelve
months removed from the Aftlute show that was Mexico. One
(03:31):
of the players coming out and saying that it was disrespectful.
I believe it was a Sablenca comment from twelve months ago.
The money certainly wasn't an issue here. Everyone got paid
very well. There's many many things that we could say
about the other parts of this that were a huge issue,
but at least we got a good final out of it,
if you want to talk about the tennis from that perspective,
(03:52):
one of the better tennis matches I think for the
whole season, final running over three hours, the final that
Janction have won. I don't think anyone's gonna say against that.
Given she was up a set and a break twice,
she should have closed this one out, but did not.
So good final, terrible tournament, dev terrible look the sport,
(04:12):
and really a terrible look in general for the broader
sporting community.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, I think if you like, if you zoom in
really close, which we're going to do, the tennis was
interesting and there's definitely some things that we're going to
talk about that that will probably have an impact on
next year for sure. Regarding who's going to be involved
at the business end of the biggest tournaments, I think
Coco and Shang are those two will be names we
see there again. But I'm definitely with you there and
(04:41):
I think that the idea that this was like there
was a few different things that I think stood out
in terms of why this definitely felt bad. And I
think we saw it just amongst like conversations with our
friends who are also tennis fans or in our discord
as well. People are just not feeling up for this,
(05:02):
even though we had potential for some really really cool
matchups and some shocking things for example like Egan not
making it out into the semi finals. Right, But regarding
the tennis, I do want to ask you about the final,
so I thought it was great. I I'm curious if
you think this is more Coco taking it in the
(05:25):
third or Shenk like choking in the third. But I
thought it was fascinating theater. That was one of the
more entertaining tennis matches I have seen this year. So
I would co sign that. But do you do you
ned out on one side or the other here?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Hmm, that's a good question. I think you probably have
to give a huge amount of respect to the last
three months that Coco GoF has displayed since the coaching
change and since and also just with the tournament as well,
beating the world's number one and two in the way
that she did and the way that she played as well.
I think there's clearly level there that she has reached,
(06:01):
and I think she's playing like or at least at
this tournament. And I think, actually it should be said
for a decent amount of the Asian court swing like
the best player in the world as well. So I
would lean towards the side of it that I think
goth won this. It was a bit of a calamitous
collapse though from the Chinese play. It did not go
according to plan several times, but at least she got
(06:22):
herself in those positions.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I think it can be both.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I think it can be both. But yeah, I hear you.
I Coco dug crazy deep like I definitely thought she
was cook several times in that third set, and I
think Josh mentioned this on the discord as well. Both
players really improved on their service, but Cocos serve as well.
I think it becoming a reliable thing or something to
lean on and the biggest moments, the biggest stages. That's
(06:47):
a revelation and something definitely to hang her hat on
going forward. It was awesome, Like I thought, it was
great theater. Once you remove everything else about this aside.
So I yeah, I mean the handshake in terms of
like the villain hierarchy on a WTA, or like who
is not liked, or like who is who is considered
(07:10):
above the fray when it comes to drama, Like everyone
is involved in some level of spice now to a
good degree. Like, I think it's better this way that
we're pretty sure that everyone hates Ega. We are'm pretty
sure everyone hates Channg Like it does seem this way
based on another end of match interaction.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, I think we can start putting in to our
post match summaries the warmness of the handshake or the
coolness of the handshake to judge whether or not two
players like each other. No smoke without fire or no
steam without ice. I don't know what is the flip
side of that. Yes, very very cool handshakes all around.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And I think this is I mean not to involve
college football and it is randomly bush but I'm going
to for a second. But you see people time wasting
in that. You see people time wasting in soccer, you
see people time wasting everywhere in tennis. I think this
has been such a part of the sport forever that
we take it for granted, how much it pisses people off,
(08:10):
especially especially in the biggest moments, especially with time and
like viewership being so I guess the people's attention spans
being in such sort supply that we really do not
have time for any of this sort of stuff, this malarchy,
which maybe in the past it would not have been
a big deal, but I am I am noticing that
(08:32):
there does seem to be some some antagonism developing. And
that's great because I mentioned Ega, But like, are you
do you? I mean, what do you make of this
the end to her season here? Like I mean, I
know we got the Billy chinkink Cup still coming, but
not a great end for Ega, and I mean overall
(08:56):
a bit of a strange year when you consider that
she is no longer the world over one.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
It's not been the most spectacular end of the season,
has it, I think her? Could you make the case
that basically from the French Open it's not been great,
But then again, like you have to sort of take
it as a as a whole. She lost six five
seven matches, is that right? Three four five seven, Yeah,
(09:23):
so such she lost seven matches all year, won five
titles and a Grand Slam. Still pretty good. It's still
pretty good in the grand context, at grand scheme of things,
Coaching change, all this sort of stuff is gonna play
a massive role in this as well. I think I
think our expectations of what her season should look like
(09:47):
are elevated because of what she has done previously. I
still think this is a pretty damn good season in
the grand context.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Of it, oh for sure. And I think anytime you
have a slam in there, I think that that makes
it count. I wonder if the Olympics it's a bit
of a something that will will we'll we'll linger And
like I didn't see the saying Ega that we have
we have grown to know towards the end of this year, right,
(10:16):
Like I mean the US Open obviously, but I thought
it was interesting And I do wonder if not being
the hunted will be something she can benefit from where
she she knows now that she has to catch someone
and the person she has to catch. Kind of an
insane year. I mean, she she made the semis in Riad,
but Sablenka player of the Season. I think we're gonna
(10:40):
say Bush in a couple of weeks when we do
our year end awards. But you have her and then
you have Coco who wins this title, and I think
maybe has has done the most to signal that her
game is ready to take the next step because of
the improvements we've seen, whether it be the serve or
whether it be I mean playing what's the Brad Gilbert
(11:04):
phrase that I'm somehow blanking on but digging deep and
playing ugly to win that match in the final, like
that to me using an excellent sign for going forward.
So I'm curious to see what we get from EGA,
because she's not the clear cut best player in the
women's game, and I think for a bit we were
comfortable saying that.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, I think so it's very possible as well that
there are just two really, really good players in the
world and this is just them alternating between each other
at the top of the rankings. And it wasn't long
ago I think that we were talking about what a
disappointment twenty twenty four had been for Cocoa Gop, especially
(11:46):
at the start of the season, of how she began
the season. I think she ended it really really well
for her. It's just about consistency. I don't know that
This is a demonstration that she is, you know, fully
cemented as the best player in the world. I think
she looks like that in patches, and I think she
certainly has looked like that at the back end of
the season. There still needs to be, you know, multiple
(12:10):
tournaments strung together. I think if you were going to
look at anything in this tournament and the sort of
late stage, late season run, that really identifies why she
has made these improvements. I look at her, She's always
been a good mover, but I think defensively and hanging
in points, especially when she's stretching from left and right,
I think you see vast improvements in that. Just making
(12:32):
balls that she would normally dump into the net, just
feeling confident enough to hang in rallies. I think that's
where I look and see significant improvement in her game.
And I think if that hangs around and she is
those that's not a mirage, that's actually true. She has
the chance to be the world number one, and she
has a chance to be contending amongst these two players.
(12:54):
But I think she's a fairly comfortable member of the
top five. Without me going as far saying she's a
comfortable member of these two. Now I think they are
still head and shoulders above the rest of the field.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, I'm with you, But beating Sablenca, Shriantek and Jang
in the same tournament pretty damn great for Coco. Goff
also Bush a fat check. So four point eight million
dollars for Coco. Goff. I read Aaron Routliff and Gaby
del Browski shouts to them Canadian Gaby winning the doubles,
(13:26):
but routelift saying I'm not saying weird and little, but
this prize changes our lives. Let's talk about the Sadie
Reevey aspect. Bush like it came up a few times
obviously during the week. He pointed out Coco had some
some insightful words on the matter. I didn't love this
(13:48):
BBC fake, Like, how's it going? What are the players think?
I'm curious what your take on basically how the players
kind of dealt with this. Felt about this because it's
a tough one for me in the sense that, like, yes,
these players have been not paid what they should have been.
They haven't paid the same as their male peers. Oftentimes
(14:10):
the setubout their tournaments has not been the same quality
as the men, they get B level venues with B
level marketing and broadcast as well. And that's been the case,
I think for a long time. So we're not seeing
that here. We are seeing the best of the best.
But it comes with the cost.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It sure does.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I think largely your view on this tournament and the
large involvement or the wider involvement of Petro states or
states with human rights abuses, goodness media, we might be
throwing the United States into that soon enough. It is
on a different level, it has to be said for
(14:53):
what we're dealing with in Saudi Arabia, just given many
women's rights activists actively in prison at the moment, Amnesthea's National,
many different organizations pointing the finger at that state in
terms of their behavior. We're not three years removed, for
five years removed from murdering of a journalist in cold blood.
(15:13):
It's still legal to be homosexual in Saudi Arabia. Like
there's many many lists that go on. There is not
equal rights for women at all. So many people I
think have been have been praising I want to say
Cocoa GoF for some of the comments that she's made
or in the course of this tournament. Actually was a
little disappointed in what she had to say. I thought
(15:35):
it was very very bland. It kind of it read
to me, and it sounded to me like a Justin
Trudeau quote. It sounded like it had all of the
nice words inside of it, but actually had very little
substance behind it. And one wonders about overall what you
can do as a player short of removing your labor, right,
that's the only thing you can do. I think it
(15:56):
obviously would have made a bigger statement to not go
there and not participate in it, to try to actively
encourage your fellow players to do that as well. That's
not what happened here. So it is largely thoughts and prayers.
Maybe that's harsh, but I think it is largely where
I came down on this, which is that everyone went
they are trying to massage this of saying that we're
(16:16):
doing things behind the scenes. I think I come from
a position where my overall theory of change, to use
the quotation and to use this current buzzword is that
largely going there and sort of being there it is bollocks. Like,
I don't think it does anything. I think historically we
can say fairly concretely, there's no example of you know,
being in a in these places and using sport as
(16:38):
a vehicle to try and make positive change out of
it against the backdrop of some pretty the power of
the state and the power of money in that region
as well. So just awful across the board. It makes
me really genuinely not like the sport. I think is
the is my where I landed on this. I think
(16:58):
this year, above everything else, was a year that I
really genuinely fell out of love and have disdain for
the sport that I grew up and liked because of
some of the actions that these tours have displayed.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It spang on. I mean her statement is sports washing
like that what she said?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Seriously?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Right? Yeah, absolutely, And I think at this point it's clean,
like the project is complete or clean in a sense
that like people don't bad an I now when you
say this event is moving to Jedda, or this event
is being held in Dubai, or this event is going
to Guitar like, no one is double taking it all anymore.
And that means that for the most part, the mission
(17:36):
is complete, and the sports have been washed, and they
have been washed in the the cool hard cash that's
on display.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think the point on this one is that everyone
wants to circle and say that, especially these athletes or
these organizations or these tours or whatever you want to
like the broader sporting community. You want to say, like
we as sort of Westerners or people who have a
particular way of of living and have particular kind of
morals and ethical codes and democracy all this kind of stuff.
(18:06):
They say, like we're we're going to these locations and
us being there in our presence is making change, like
it is making change. I think honestly, it's it's so
misguided and has such a vast misunderstanding that the actual
truth of what is happening is the reverse of it.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
It's you, yeah, you know what.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It sounds like push. It sounds like a frickin Democratic
Party foreign policy idea. Here, like eight eight people in
a think tank coming up with this, I mean Coco's
statement or like what she said. It sounds like seven
people were in a room agonizing over that. They come
up with the response that they're going to manipulate and
(18:49):
change maybe ten or so words every now every time
they use it, and keep going with that, right, like
it's who it's it's I'm totally with you regarding how
this has kind of changed my how I view things,
Like I don't think I was naive in this sense
(19:09):
of like this started happening in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Obviously not, but.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I think the saturation point came quicker than I realized
or was expecting. And yeah, it's quite grim, but.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Here we are spushwa washing works dev it works very
very successfully. If it didn't, these states would not do it,
they would not put the money behind it. And I
think it is such a naive approach for a lot
of these players and a lot of these organizations. It's
either naive or it's down right evil, Like it's done
(19:45):
with willingness to recognize that.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
There's like.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Our actions will make no difference, but we're going to
do it anyway because we are desperate for the money.
And like our organizations, that is how it works. Like
they they will they being like these states and these uh,
these these governments get you hooked on the money. That's
the whole point of it is that they have you
(20:12):
over a barrel because they recognize the weakness in the
economics system and the structure that is behind that governs
these organizations. And the fact that these organizations in the
WTA are so weak and have been so poorly run
that you are in a situation where you required to
(20:32):
get this injection of cash from somewhere, I think speaks
to all the fact of how poorly run it's been.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Nail, did do you have anything else on the WCA Finals?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Fuck this tournament. To not be too blunt about it
is actually I shouldn't. I shouldn't say that that's way harsh.
Not I mean, don't not the WTA Finals as an entity,
as a as a premiere event. I think there's a
lot to be said for having the best players in
the world competing for an end tournament. I don't mind
(21:04):
that at all. I more mean, on the grand scale
of things, what this tournament has become, where it's been
sold to, what it stands as a political entity.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Awful, just dreadful, all right, But you.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Made it to a tournament while you were in Europe.
It's a tournament we love dearly, and it's one that's
changing imminently as it moves from a core arena to
lad defense arena in twenty twenty five. But you were
there in the basement of Paris Simon to watch Alexander
Zarev absolutely dummy Ugo Umbert in a very depressing final.
(21:39):
You did get to see some cool doubles though, how
was it?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
It was an entertaining event. I think my overall takeaway
from this, which is the I think the French sporting
crowd are largely very fun to be around. I think
it was a good, lively atmosphere that actually had a
few kind of nuanced takes about this that are trying
and dig into, as we kind of hacket. But on
one of the big things that I took away from
(22:02):
it was that the verv doesn't like some of the
more niggerly crowd behavior. I think is my read on this.
I think that kind of overall assessment that he's a
bit of a man baby. Obviously, just given his actions
and what we've seen over the last few years. He
was fine up until the point that the and the
(22:24):
crowd was like respect for trying to root for Unbear
through the majority of this final. It was until the
last like three games where the crowd's kind of a
little bit restless and they want a bit more and
they're trying different tactics to get under his skin.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
It actually worked. I thought it was a.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Good demonstration of how the book on him if you
can actually throw him off. He didn't handle it particularly well.
He made it made him change his game, It made
him like come a little bit unglued in some capacity,
and it also changed I think his body language on court.
So what they were doing to him sally did affec him.
It didn't affect the end result because Unberea was trash
(23:03):
that day, but I thought that was really interesting to
see live.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, I mean the atmosphere always sounds good on TV
for this tournament, I think I say we liked it
so much, but I can definitely tell in the beginning
and then when they were definitely trying hard or doing
a bigger service than Ugo was to derail Zverev in
terms of his play. The crowd was extremely into it
and maybe the the perfect foil for Vera in a
(23:31):
setting into which he's not against someone who who was
really out of it.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So it is things like I guess, just to put
some more color on that. It's it's the difference between
like raucously applauding a Hugo ambear you know, a second
serve which produces an unforced erar, you know, which is
like nothing. It's the difference between that between like Alexander's
far of missing a first serve and the crowd getting
like doing that or like jeering or something that's like,
(23:58):
you know, it's it's a little bit more, there's a
bit more of an edge to it, or when he
hits a winner or something and he's getting like the
sort of wolf whistles at it, like you know whoa congratulations,
the kind of ironic cheers to the whole thing. And
I think that sort of thing definitely put him off.
You could see it was starting to have an impact
on him.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Well, he's still won, and that's bad. Shouts to Ugo though.
That's a fun week for him playing at home, and
that semi final was quite entertaining against Hatchenov. Weird tournament
though quickly bush I wanted to mention the ATP finals,
Djokovic is with ron so I wonder.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
It's on the beach, isn't he did? I see?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah? Yeah, But also he's with drawn in a way
that I think is like the best fossil way, where
he's like I'm gonna get ready for twenty twenty five.
I'm going to play the first week of the season,
but like completely kind of almost rendering this this final
ATPUP Finals into like the dustbin, like there's a there's
little juice here unless we get I guess siner al
(25:04):
Kraz again push, Like is that the that's what we're
watching for here. I mean, it's cool that demon hor
got in, but I don't know. I don't have a
lot of juice.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
For this one. No me neither.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I was actually kind of hoping that Jack jpher would
have gone in, just given the back end of the
year he had and the run that he went on.
I thought you played some really really good tennis. Also,
we've spoken about this many times, the mirage that is
post us Open, especially on the men's I think I
think it's different on the on the debt than it
is on the ATP, just given how prestigious the Asian
swing is on the WTA comparatively onto the ATP. Where
(25:41):
you do get a bunch of winners or people running
deep in tournament, you don't usually expect what you see
like a late season surge for people I think that
watch this space. When it comes to Draper whether or
not this is actually real. I think he's played really,
really well, but I'm curious to see whether or not
that stands up through the course of a twenty twenty
five season. Ciner Arkas would be great for an ATP finals,
(26:03):
but the fact that Novo were just sitting on a
beach somewhere I think gives some regard of where he
has this in terms of the ranking. It's Grand Slams
or nothing at this point.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Well said sir, all right, we'll leave it there. When
we come back on Parting Shots, Sweet Choks, media meltdowns,
rebaccan as new coach, Diego foror Land, picking up a racket,
and more coming up next. Welcome back to the Open
(26:36):
Air podcast. It's time for parting Shots, Bush, What do
you got for us this week?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I've reached deep into my bag of nonsense for parting shots.
So John Wortheim is in trouble. Dev He finds himself
in some hot water. If you have not heard the
clip or I have not seen it circulated, effectively, he's hot.
Micd whilst doing an intro bit while on Tennis Channel,
(27:03):
referring to his forehead looking large like barber, critiqueurs and
referring to her as eight head. Hey, it's just not
a very funny joke. It has to be said, it's
just stupid. But he just comes across an asshole. I
think somebody, I think somebody to be on a point
(27:24):
finger and say, like, you know, to pile on this
dude and throw many labels at him, all of which
I think is justified. But I think that was the
takeaway of just me sort of sniggering, sniggering at it
and saying, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
This sounds like an asshoce me more than anything else.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, exactly who says that, even not miked, you know,
like people.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Want TV, people don't say that, regardless.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Of people who are decent are not saying that.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I would say, I agree and dev maybe this is
just extra annoying for people who work in the media,
which is that I am sure that you got taught
the same role that I did at the BBC, which is,
any time that you are around a microphone, assume that
it is live, Like, oh yeah, your fucking first rule
of this thing is come on, you failed the first rule.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
To get it together, Get it together. TC. I saw
Barbara's response on social media. I thought it was excellent.
To seek that out if you want as well, But
I thought BK handle it well.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Not great though, is it? It really is great? Let's move on?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So, uh, Lenda Remacca, what should we just describe a
twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Four hours mixed cursed curse? Is probably yeah, more accurate,
definitely cursed, right?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
And what way to change this than to appoint Goreny
Gore and Ibidiezevitcha's your coach going forward?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
What do your what do you make of this?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
There's such an interesting coaching choice, one that I think
makes sense potentially on.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
The surface of it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
All time great server working with top three server on
the WTA top two best server.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
I guess you could maybe argue as well.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So certainly from that standpoint, you could see huge benefits
to it. And we've seen the effect I think whether
I don't know how much you want to draw to it,
but Ibanizovitch's effect on the Novak Djokovic just sir, it's
what a weapon it's become.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
And how close do he work with the serf throughout
all of that.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I just thought this was a very curious matchup and
one that I am very excited to see how it
unfowards for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, that idea of superstar coaches after working with a
goat or the greatest. I'm really curious to see how
they deal with that as well, because Tony Didell's tour
at a farce coaching Felix Bush is see her it
in my brain and I want to remove that with
a better story me too.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I think Ivenizovich is a good coach, regardless of any
opinions that people may have of him. The fact that
he did do the work with I think very clearly
some of the work that he did when v Djokovic
has paid off to sort of prolong his career and
to sort of propel him into the stratuspit that people
think about him as well. And he also I believe,
(30:19):
worked with Marion Chilich as well around the time that
Chileich won the US Open, So there's clearly.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Pedigree there as well. Yeah, curious to see how it goes.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Good luck to them.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Former Manchester United striker Diego Fulan is now a tennis
player dev if you can believe it, he I believe
retired in his late thirties. I want to say thirty six,
thirty seven kind of age, and it's actually apparently a
pretty damn good tennis player by all accounts. He made
his tour debut believe two weeks ago, three weeks ago.
(30:53):
This is a cool story across the board. It's nice
to see. I think professional athletes have second lives in
different different spheres, but sometimes when they actually cross spoards.
You wouldn't have thought that going from a professional footballer
to professional tennis player as possible, and in some ways
it's proved not to be. But he's a good enough
(31:13):
player given where he's ranked and given the age that
he is that this is actually a pretty cool story.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Very cool. Diego Forland also almost came to Toronto to
play with TFC back in the day, so that would
have been cool. But yeah, I always loved his game.
Definitely cool. I feel like tennis is also like this
sec like the favorite second sport of a lot of
pro athletes these days, especially in hockey, you hear a
lot of like Austin Matthews talking tennis stuff. So interesting stuff. Okay,
(31:43):
let's end with a chud before an announcement from us,
but somebody please take away Martina and ravert Alova's Twitter
account take away Twitter entirely at this point, Simon.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I think, with how many days are we since the
U election had election fever? Obviously in twenty twenty four,
massive year for democracy around the world, but so much
has spoken about media literacy and critical analysis and the
way that people vote and the way that people are
swayed by information. I must admit I'm not someone that
(32:17):
comes down on that way too harshly. I think it's
largely used as a position to make fun of or
belittle a cross section of people. There's a level of
elitism in that category. However, I think in this particular
case that we're talking about of Matina now Ratlover clearly
an indication of someone who is not particularly media literate
(32:40):
when it comes to social media and it comes to
online information. I think she falls into a demographic that
I feel fairly confident in saying are not particularly good
at knowing the difference between truth and fake or falseness online.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
She is a bit of a bigot.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I don't think that's a particularly a controversial statement to
make at this point.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Not at all, Not at all. Yeah, I mean, I
think this kind of stuff is so do why I
was feeling super down after Tuesday. I mean, obvious is
the obvious, but similar things are going to happen in
Canada next year with our election, and I think the
platforms that I used to love and flock to to
(33:33):
talk about sports or politics or whatever are completely just
destroyed now. And I'm not just talking about like social media,
but like Google and googling things. Try have you tried
googling things recently? I feel like the capitalist way was
to just break everything in sight to make money off
(33:54):
fixing it. And by fixing I guess we mean really
throwing a spanner in the works and doing whatever they
want to do as we're seeing it. But yeah, I
mean people with large platforms, backed by many famous people,
people who are in the media all the time doing
shit like this, which is just dumb and like, I
(34:17):
don't know, par for the course for her, it's just
why it's yeah, like it's it kind of sums up
to speak, well, like I know it's not electra related,
but this idiocy, it's like, yeah, you couldn't take three
seconds to do some media literacy. Nah, not for me.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I real as we haven't actually told what the story
is we're talking about in one Khalif an Ai. I mean,
I don't even not an Ai. It's just a regular
photoshop damage circulating around the internet, demonstrating fake version of
what her body looks like, and it was retweeted by
Martina and Avratilova. I think, pushing her own extremely conservative,
(34:58):
extremely reactionary, and extremely bad worldview around transgender people. I know,
an awful story and one that continues to somehow reverberate
months and months after something that I thought we could
would finally move past.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Yeah, it's terrible week, not agree week overall, but before
we end, we will also add to your misery or
maybe your happiness, depending on how much.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
You've enjoyed the show. But we do have an announcement
regarding open Era, and I think Simon and I are
going to call it a pod after this season, after
twenty twenty four, so we'll have our usual holiday shows
in December, but that will be that for open Era.
(35:51):
We've been doing this for five years, I believe since
twenty nineteen Bush, but before that started with The Sport Chronicle.
But in twenty nineteen when we started open Era, we
got to join up with space Monkey and work with
people like Clay and Dylan, who's with us today, and
Greg and so many great folks and so many great guests.
(36:12):
But I think we've kind of realized that this is
this is probably the right time to call it for
us as we get increasingly sickened by this morning landscape
when it comes to everything but maybe tennis in particular,
but bush it. It's been an incredible ride. And I
know we have a few episodes left, but yeah, it's bittersweet,
(36:33):
for sure, but it feels like the right time.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
For us to be doing this.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, and I think we can touch on more about
this and what our future looks like and what plans
we have in the next few weeks over the next
few episodes. But I just kind of wanted to join
you and say, obviously, first and foremost thank you to
all of the people that have listened to us across
the years, Like it's always a lovely, lovely situation to
run into people who want to take the time to
(37:00):
listen to the things you put out, to join us
in the discord, to support us like that is astonishing.
I still find it very, very weird to believe I've
made friends through this show. I think it's brought us
and our friendship close together. So from that standpoint, I'm
really really genuinely happy and grateful for that, and I
think secondary dis Space Monkeys as well, I think just
(37:21):
very very thankful to them as well for the support
for the show and continuing to do the way to
support it the way they have done. It's made our
lives significantly easier to continue doing the show for as
long as we have done, so I wanted to put
that out there, maybe just a point on this step.
I'm tired. I know you're tired as well, emotionally and
(37:44):
physically of doing a show for as long as we
have done. I think we've done nearly four hundred episodes
across the two shows, or three hundred and fifty episodes.
We've potted together for seven years, eight years. I think
we've produced so much content between the two different shows.
It's a lot, I think to continue to I don't
think I'm not going to say that I think we're
(38:04):
burnt out. Well, I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say
that for you. I don't feel burnt out. I think
I just feel ready to do something else, like I
want a different creative challenge, rather than feeling like I
want this to end. I've definitely felt burnt out before
about this show, but not that's not currently how I
feel about it. I find it kind of feel like
a sense of ease and closure about the whole thing
(38:26):
that I'm just kind of very happy with what it
was and what it kind of amounted to, and whatever
comes next will be very good as well for us.
Do we want to say that with concreteness that I
don't think this is the last time we'll record together,
Like it won't be the last kind of media that
we produce together. But I think it is for the
(38:47):
I feel pretty concrete in saying that it is for
Open Era.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah. No, I do too, And that's really well said.
I mean, yeah, the listeners have been amazing, Our friends
on Discord have been incredible. Like I think you said
it well, Like, I don't know if it's necessarily burnout,
but I think it's time for something new and some
new ideas and create some new things that were we
(39:15):
want to dig into every week and really or not
every week, maybe every month, but you know, like just
really sink our teeth into it and be passionate about it,
because I think that's what made doing the show so
fun and yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
It's you want to know it's funny? Is that?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
A couple of weeks ag when we were chatting about
this a month ago, we were like floating some ideas
and about what what would want to do different or
what would want to do next as a piece of media.
And while I was away, I was walking through middle
of Amsterdam and I just had of like mulling over
some ideas, putting some voice notes together, and I wrote
down one was like, oh no, that's that is a
recipe for burnout, where it's like, what if we did
(39:56):
a sport chronicle version of all one hundred and three
feder A title wins. So we went through every single
one of them, one week at a time. It's like,
oh god, no, no, no, no, no, no, that is
not a good idea. However, if you do have good ideas,
please let us know.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, send them our way. But yeah, I think that's
a good place to leave it. And we, like we said,
we have a few a few more open eras coming up,
might have some friends join us as well to say goodbye,
but perhaps we'll leave it there for this week as
we look forward to the holiday season. Of course, Davis
(40:33):
Cup as well. RAPHI is Farewell still coming up, so
we'll cover that, plus the holiday rap episodes as well.
But yeah, a major I mean when we started this
Bush we got to go cover the Vancouver Open at
the Challenger Level, which I remember was a big moment.
We recorded out like in the media box there, and
(40:53):
then I got to we got to go on TV,
got to go on and see TV and talk about
tennis and have Open Air and the cry on and
then cover the Rogers Open, Rogers Cup, National Bank Open
because of the show live broadcasting, so I wanted to
talk about tennis. I wanted to make it so that
(41:15):
we could talk about tennis in a way that maybe
broke through it opened some doors, and I think it
did so. On that note, I'm quite pleased with what
we've been able to do here. But we will talk
to you soon on Open Air at least a few
more times. But for now, for Dylan on the ones
into Use and for Simon, thank you so much for
(41:36):
listening to Open Era. We'll talk to you next week.
(42:01):
Stat
Hello, and welcome to the Open Era podcast. My name
is de Beg de Side. I'm joined as always by
mister Simon Bush or Bush. It's been a while, friend,
How are you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, I'm fine, Thank you. I just returned from my travels.
I picked up something. I'm not quite sure what I
got covered, the flu, sinus infection, a cold, any of
the above, maybe all of them at the same time.
So I spent the first three or four days when
I got back doing literally nothing except lying on the couch,
(00:43):
which was a nice change from a very very busy
three and a half weeks.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, a new stranger just dropped, or a new strand
just dropped. I guess as the the term midge we're
going to use for the latest virus to take over
the world. But yeah, that's that's not great. But glad
to hear you at a time. Where'd you go again?
You were all over?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, I had a pretty packed itinery so I did Edinburgh, Glasgow,
I dropped down to York for a bit, then I
went to Newcastle, Newcastle to Amsterdam, Amsterdam, U treked to
the Hague to delf back to Amsterdam and then to Paris.
So it was a pretty pretty full of Yeah, almost
(01:24):
a month I was away, so yeah, I had a
good time, but I was pretty damn tied by the
end of it.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well that makes sense, and that could just be a
traveling sickness as well, just because that's a lot of
a lot of miles in there. But glad to hear you.
Hear you had a good time. We're going to talk
about your tennis experience during this trip, which I had
to laugh at hoping to see Carlos salcraz in the
flesh and instead getting the final we got. We'll talk
about that much for sure. But should we begin with
(01:51):
the WTA finals?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Probably a good place to do that, seeing as the
WTA season has now concluded the Crown Jewel event? Is
that the right phraseology of this? The World Tour Finals
on the WTA side, won by Coco GoF winning of
A Quijang in the final, both players matching the court
color dev in the final, which I thought was a
(02:15):
nice time.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yes, looking great in purple.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Maybe this is a new theme that we should try
and add to tennis in general.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Do you think they were told to do that? Because
I felt like that was a little much almost it's
a small quibble in the grand scheme of things, but
it was.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
A lot of purple.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
That's what the next stage of the KSA's big plan
is is to color match flag. Isn't that akin to
Newcastle United's third kit being the Saudi Saudi strip.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Which I don't even know if they tried to explain
that away with any sort of link to history, But
it was a bit on the nose. But yeah, I
mean I thought the uh, you know, like the crowd
shots you get at every tournament. And I'm again I'm
not trying to be purposely antagonistic here, I'm going to
lay into everything about this in a second. How many
(03:01):
crowdshots did you see of people texting on their phone
or on their phone bust during this During this tournament.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Dev the literal, let's say, tens of people that were
in the crowd were going wild and really enraptured by
what was going on in this event. We have had
a few stinkers, haven't we. For WTA finals were twelve
months removed from the Aftlute show that was Mexico. One
(03:31):
of the players coming out and saying that it was disrespectful.
I believe it was a Sablenca comment from twelve months ago.
The money certainly wasn't an issue here. Everyone got paid
very well. There's many many things that we could say
about the other parts of this that were a huge issue,
but at least we got a good final out of it,
if you want to talk about the tennis from that perspective,
(03:52):
one of the better tennis matches I think for the
whole season, final running over three hours, the final that
Janction have won. I don't think anyone's gonna say against that.
Given she was up a set and a break twice,
she should have closed this one out, but did not.
So good final, terrible tournament, dev terrible look the sport,
(04:12):
and really a terrible look in general for the broader
sporting community.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, I think if you like, if you zoom in
really close, which we're going to do, the tennis was
interesting and there's definitely some things that we're going to
talk about that that will probably have an impact on
next year for sure. Regarding who's going to be involved
at the business end of the biggest tournaments, I think
Coco and Shang are those two will be names we
see there again. But I'm definitely with you there and
(04:41):
I think that the idea that this was like there
was a few different things that I think stood out
in terms of why this definitely felt bad. And I
think we saw it just amongst like conversations with our
friends who are also tennis fans or in our discord
as well. People are just not feeling up for this,
(05:02):
even though we had potential for some really really cool
matchups and some shocking things for example like Egan not
making it out into the semi finals. Right, But regarding
the tennis, I do want to ask you about the final,
so I thought it was great. I I'm curious if
you think this is more Coco taking it in the
(05:25):
third or Shenk like choking in the third. But I
thought it was fascinating theater. That was one of the
more entertaining tennis matches I have seen this year. So
I would co sign that. But do you do you
ned out on one side or the other here?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Hmm, that's a good question. I think you probably have
to give a huge amount of respect to the last
three months that Coco GoF has displayed since the coaching
change and since and also just with the tournament as well,
beating the world's number one and two in the way
that she did and the way that she played as well.
I think there's clearly level there that she has reached,
(06:01):
and I think she's playing like or at least at
this tournament. And I think, actually it should be said
for a decent amount of the Asian court swing like
the best player in the world as well. So I
would lean towards the side of it that I think
goth won this. It was a bit of a calamitous
collapse though from the Chinese play. It did not go
according to plan several times, but at least she got
(06:22):
herself in those positions.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I think it can be both.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I think it can be both. But yeah, I hear you.
I Coco dug crazy deep like I definitely thought she
was cook several times in that third set, and I
think Josh mentioned this on the discord as well. Both
players really improved on their service, but Cocos serve as well.
I think it becoming a reliable thing or something to
lean on and the biggest moments, the biggest stages. That's
(06:47):
a revelation and something definitely to hang her hat on
going forward. It was awesome, Like I thought, it was
great theater. Once you remove everything else about this aside.
So I yeah, I mean the handshake in terms of
like the villain hierarchy on a WTA, or like who
is not liked, or like who is who is considered
(07:10):
above the fray when it comes to drama, Like everyone
is involved in some level of spice now to a
good degree. Like, I think it's better this way that
we're pretty sure that everyone hates Ega. We are'm pretty
sure everyone hates Channg Like it does seem this way
based on another end of match interaction.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Well, I think we can start putting in to our
post match summaries the warmness of the handshake or the
coolness of the handshake to judge whether or not two
players like each other. No smoke without fire or no
steam without ice. I don't know what is the flip
side of that. Yes, very very cool handshakes all around.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And I think this is I mean not to involve
college football and it is randomly bush but I'm going
to for a second. But you see people time wasting
in that. You see people time wasting in soccer, you
see people time wasting everywhere in tennis. I think this
has been such a part of the sport forever that
we take it for granted, how much it pisses people off,
(08:10):
especially especially in the biggest moments, especially with time and
like viewership being so I guess the people's attention spans
being in such sort supply that we really do not
have time for any of this sort of stuff, this malarchy,
which maybe in the past it would not have been
a big deal, but I am I am noticing that
(08:32):
there does seem to be some some antagonism developing. And
that's great because I mentioned Ega, But like, are you
do you? I mean, what do you make of this
the end to her season here? Like I mean, I
know we got the Billy chinkink Cup still coming, but
not a great end for Ega, and I mean overall
(08:56):
a bit of a strange year when you consider that
she is no longer the world over one.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
It's not been the most spectacular end of the season,
has it, I think her? Could you make the case
that basically from the French Open it's not been great,
But then again, like you have to sort of take
it as a as a whole. She lost six five
seven matches, is that right? Three four five seven, Yeah,
(09:23):
so such she lost seven matches all year, won five
titles and a Grand Slam. Still pretty good. It's still
pretty good in the grand context, at grand scheme of things,
Coaching change, all this sort of stuff is gonna play
a massive role in this as well. I think I
think our expectations of what her season should look like
(09:47):
are elevated because of what she has done previously. I
still think this is a pretty damn good season in
the grand context.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Of it, oh for sure. And I think anytime you
have a slam in there, I think that that makes
it count. I wonder if the Olympics it's a bit
of a something that will will we'll we'll linger And
like I didn't see the saying Ega that we have
we have grown to know towards the end of this year, right,
(10:16):
Like I mean the US Open obviously, but I thought
it was interesting And I do wonder if not being
the hunted will be something she can benefit from where
she she knows now that she has to catch someone
and the person she has to catch. Kind of an
insane year. I mean, she she made the semis in Riad,
but Sablenka player of the Season. I think we're gonna
(10:40):
say Bush in a couple of weeks when we do
our year end awards. But you have her and then
you have Coco who wins this title, and I think
maybe has has done the most to signal that her
game is ready to take the next step because of
the improvements we've seen, whether it be the serve or
whether it be I mean playing what's the Brad Gilbert
(11:04):
phrase that I'm somehow blanking on but digging deep and
playing ugly to win that match in the final, like
that to me using an excellent sign for going forward.
So I'm curious to see what we get from EGA,
because she's not the clear cut best player in the
women's game, and I think for a bit we were
comfortable saying that.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, I think so it's very possible as well that
there are just two really, really good players in the
world and this is just them alternating between each other
at the top of the rankings. And it wasn't long
ago I think that we were talking about what a
disappointment twenty twenty four had been for Cocoa Gop, especially
(11:46):
at the start of the season, of how she began
the season. I think she ended it really really well
for her. It's just about consistency. I don't know that
This is a demonstration that she is, you know, fully
cemented as the best player in the world. I think
she looks like that in patches, and I think she
certainly has looked like that at the back end of
the season. There still needs to be, you know, multiple
(12:10):
tournaments strung together. I think if you were going to
look at anything in this tournament and the sort of
late stage, late season run, that really identifies why she
has made these improvements. I look at her, She's always
been a good mover, but I think defensively and hanging
in points, especially when she's stretching from left and right,
I think you see vast improvements in that. Just making
(12:32):
balls that she would normally dump into the net, just
feeling confident enough to hang in rallies. I think that's
where I look and see significant improvement in her game.
And I think if that hangs around and she is
those that's not a mirage, that's actually true. She has
the chance to be the world number one, and she
has a chance to be contending amongst these two players.
(12:54):
But I think she's a fairly comfortable member of the
top five. Without me going as far saying she's a
comfortable member of these two. Now I think they are
still head and shoulders above the rest of the field.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, I'm with you, But beating Sablenca, Shriantek and Jang
in the same tournament pretty damn great for Coco. Goff
also Bush a fat check. So four point eight million
dollars for Coco. Goff. I read Aaron Routliff and Gaby
del Browski shouts to them Canadian Gaby winning the doubles,
(13:26):
but routelift saying I'm not saying weird and little, but
this prize changes our lives. Let's talk about the Sadie
Reevey aspect. Bush like it came up a few times
obviously during the week. He pointed out Coco had some
some insightful words on the matter. I didn't love this
(13:48):
BBC fake, Like, how's it going? What are the players think?
I'm curious what your take on basically how the players
kind of dealt with this. Felt about this because it's
a tough one for me in the sense that, like, yes,
these players have been not paid what they should have been.
They haven't paid the same as their male peers. Oftentimes
(14:10):
the setubout their tournaments has not been the same quality
as the men, they get B level venues with B
level marketing and broadcast as well. And that's been the case,
I think for a long time. So we're not seeing
that here. We are seeing the best of the best.
But it comes with the cost.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
It sure does.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I think largely your view on this tournament and the
large involvement or the wider involvement of Petro states or
states with human rights abuses, goodness media, we might be
throwing the United States into that soon enough. It is
on a different level, it has to be said for
(14:53):
what we're dealing with in Saudi Arabia, just given many
women's rights activists actively in prison at the moment, Amnesthea's National,
many different organizations pointing the finger at that state in
terms of their behavior. We're not three years removed, for
five years removed from murdering of a journalist in cold blood.
(15:13):
It's still legal to be homosexual in Saudi Arabia. Like
there's many many lists that go on. There is not
equal rights for women at all. So many people I
think have been have been praising I want to say
Cocoa GoF for some of the comments that she's made
or in the course of this tournament. Actually was a
little disappointed in what she had to say. I thought
(15:35):
it was very very bland. It kind of it read
to me, and it sounded to me like a Justin
Trudeau quote. It sounded like it had all of the
nice words inside of it, but actually had very little
substance behind it. And one wonders about overall what you
can do as a player short of removing your labor, right,
that's the only thing you can do. I think it
(15:56):
obviously would have made a bigger statement to not go
there and not participate in it, to try to actively
encourage your fellow players to do that as well. That's
not what happened here. So it is largely thoughts and prayers.
Maybe that's harsh, but I think it is largely where
I came down on this, which is that everyone went
they are trying to massage this of saying that we're
(16:16):
doing things behind the scenes. I think I come from
a position where my overall theory of change, to use
the quotation and to use this current buzzword is that
largely going there and sort of being there it is bollocks. Like,
I don't think it does anything. I think historically we
can say fairly concretely, there's no example of you know,
being in a in these places and using sport as
(16:38):
a vehicle to try and make positive change out of
it against the backdrop of some pretty the power of
the state and the power of money in that region
as well. So just awful across the board. It makes
me really genuinely not like the sport. I think is
the is my where I landed on this. I think
(16:58):
this year, above everything else, was a year that I
really genuinely fell out of love and have disdain for
the sport that I grew up and liked because of
some of the actions that these tours have displayed.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It spang on. I mean her statement is sports washing
like that what she said?
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Seriously?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Right? Yeah, absolutely, And I think at this point it's clean,
like the project is complete or clean in a sense
that like people don't bad an I now when you
say this event is moving to Jedda, or this event
is being held in Dubai, or this event is going
to Guitar like, no one is double taking it all anymore.
And that means that for the most part, the mission
(17:36):
is complete, and the sports have been washed, and they
have been washed in the the cool hard cash that's
on display.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think the point on this one is that everyone
wants to circle and say that, especially these athletes or
these organizations or these tours or whatever you want to
like the broader sporting community. You want to say, like
we as sort of Westerners or people who have a
particular way of of living and have particular kind of
morals and ethical codes and democracy all this kind of stuff.
(18:06):
They say, like we're we're going to these locations and
us being there in our presence is making change, like
it is making change. I think honestly, it's it's so
misguided and has such a vast misunderstanding that the actual
truth of what is happening is the reverse of it.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
It's you, yeah, you know what.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It sounds like push. It sounds like a frickin Democratic
Party foreign policy idea. Here, like eight eight people in
a think tank coming up with this, I mean Coco's
statement or like what she said. It sounds like seven
people were in a room agonizing over that. They come
up with the response that they're going to manipulate and
(18:49):
change maybe ten or so words every now every time
they use it, and keep going with that, right, like
it's who it's it's I'm totally with you regarding how
this has kind of changed my how I view things,
Like I don't think I was naive in this sense
(19:09):
of like this started happening in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Obviously not, but.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I think the saturation point came quicker than I realized
or was expecting. And yeah, it's quite grim, but.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Here we are spushwa washing works dev it works very
very successfully. If it didn't, these states would not do it,
they would not put the money behind it. And I
think it is such a naive approach for a lot
of these players and a lot of these organizations. It's
either naive or it's down right evil, Like it's done
(19:45):
with willingness to recognize that.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
There's like.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Our actions will make no difference, but we're going to
do it anyway because we are desperate for the money.
And like our organizations, that is how it works. Like
they they will they being like these states and these uh,
these these governments get you hooked on the money. That's
the whole point of it is that they have you
(20:12):
over a barrel because they recognize the weakness in the
economics system and the structure that is behind that governs
these organizations. And the fact that these organizations in the
WTA are so weak and have been so poorly run
that you are in a situation where you required to
(20:32):
get this injection of cash from somewhere, I think speaks
to all the fact of how poorly run it's been.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Nail, did do you have anything else on the WCA Finals?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Fuck this tournament. To not be too blunt about it
is actually I shouldn't. I shouldn't say that that's way harsh.
Not I mean, don't not the WTA Finals as an entity,
as a as a premiere event. I think there's a
lot to be said for having the best players in
the world competing for an end tournament. I don't mind
(21:04):
that at all. I more mean, on the grand scale
of things, what this tournament has become, where it's been
sold to, what it stands as a political entity.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Awful, just dreadful, all right, But you.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Made it to a tournament while you were in Europe.
It's a tournament we love dearly, and it's one that's
changing imminently as it moves from a core arena to
lad defense arena in twenty twenty five. But you were
there in the basement of Paris Simon to watch Alexander
Zarev absolutely dummy Ugo Umbert in a very depressing final.
(21:39):
You did get to see some cool doubles though, how
was it?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
It was an entertaining event. I think my overall takeaway
from this, which is the I think the French sporting
crowd are largely very fun to be around. I think
it was a good, lively atmosphere that actually had a
few kind of nuanced takes about this that are trying
and dig into, as we kind of hacket. But on
one of the big things that I took away from
(22:02):
it was that the verv doesn't like some of the
more niggerly crowd behavior. I think is my read on this.
I think that kind of overall assessment that he's a
bit of a man baby. Obviously, just given his actions
and what we've seen over the last few years. He
was fine up until the point that the and the
(22:24):
crowd was like respect for trying to root for Unbear
through the majority of this final. It was until the
last like three games where the crowd's kind of a
little bit restless and they want a bit more and
they're trying different tactics to get under his skin.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
It actually worked. I thought it was a.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Good demonstration of how the book on him if you
can actually throw him off. He didn't handle it particularly well.
He made it made him change his game, It made
him like come a little bit unglued in some capacity,
and it also changed I think his body language on court.
So what they were doing to him sally did affec him.
It didn't affect the end result because Unberea was trash
(23:03):
that day, but I thought that was really interesting to
see live.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, I mean the atmosphere always sounds good on TV
for this tournament, I think I say we liked it
so much, but I can definitely tell in the beginning
and then when they were definitely trying hard or doing
a bigger service than Ugo was to derail Zverev in
terms of his play. The crowd was extremely into it
and maybe the the perfect foil for Vera in a
(23:31):
setting into which he's not against someone who who was
really out of it.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So it is things like I guess, just to put
some more color on that. It's it's the difference between
like raucously applauding a Hugo ambear you know, a second
serve which produces an unforced erar, you know, which is
like nothing. It's the difference between that between like Alexander's
far of missing a first serve and the crowd getting
like doing that or like jeering or something that's like,
(23:58):
you know, it's it's a little bit more, there's a
bit more of an edge to it, or when he
hits a winner or something and he's getting like the
sort of wolf whistles at it, like you know whoa congratulations,
the kind of ironic cheers to the whole thing. And
I think that sort of thing definitely put him off.
You could see it was starting to have an impact
on him.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Well, he's still won, and that's bad. Shouts to Ugo though.
That's a fun week for him playing at home, and
that semi final was quite entertaining against Hatchenov. Weird tournament
though quickly bush I wanted to mention the ATP finals,
Djokovic is with ron so I wonder.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
It's on the beach, isn't he did? I see?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah? Yeah, But also he's with drawn in a way
that I think is like the best fossil way, where
he's like I'm gonna get ready for twenty twenty five.
I'm going to play the first week of the season,
but like completely kind of almost rendering this this final
ATPUP Finals into like the dustbin, like there's a there's
little juice here unless we get I guess siner al
(25:04):
Kraz again push, Like is that the that's what we're
watching for here. I mean, it's cool that demon hor
got in, but I don't know. I don't have a
lot of juice.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
For this one. No me neither.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I was actually kind of hoping that Jack jpher would
have gone in, just given the back end of the
year he had and the run that he went on.
I thought you played some really really good tennis. Also,
we've spoken about this many times, the mirage that is
post us Open, especially on the men's I think I
think it's different on the on the debt than it
is on the ATP, just given how prestigious the Asian
swing is on the WTA comparatively onto the ATP. Where
(25:41):
you do get a bunch of winners or people running
deep in tournament, you don't usually expect what you see
like a late season surge for people I think that
watch this space. When it comes to Draper whether or
not this is actually real. I think he's played really,
really well, but I'm curious to see whether or not
that stands up through the course of a twenty twenty
five season. Ciner Arkas would be great for an ATP finals,
(26:03):
but the fact that Novo were just sitting on a
beach somewhere I think gives some regard of where he
has this in terms of the ranking. It's Grand Slams
or nothing at this point.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Well said sir, all right, we'll leave it there. When
we come back on Parting Shots, Sweet Choks, media meltdowns,
rebaccan as new coach, Diego foror Land, picking up a racket,
and more coming up next. Welcome back to the Open
(26:36):
Air podcast. It's time for parting Shots, Bush, What do
you got for us this week?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I've reached deep into my bag of nonsense for parting shots.
So John Wortheim is in trouble. Dev He finds himself
in some hot water. If you have not heard the
clip or I have not seen it circulated, effectively, he's hot.
Micd whilst doing an intro bit while on Tennis Channel,
(27:03):
referring to his forehead looking large like barber, critiqueurs and
referring to her as eight head. Hey, it's just not
a very funny joke. It has to be said, it's
just stupid. But he just comes across an asshole. I
think somebody, I think somebody to be on a point
(27:24):
finger and say, like, you know, to pile on this
dude and throw many labels at him, all of which
I think is justified. But I think that was the
takeaway of just me sort of sniggering, sniggering at it
and saying, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
This sounds like an asshoce me more than anything else.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, exactly who says that, even not miked, you know,
like people.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Want TV, people don't say that, regardless.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Of people who are decent are not saying that.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I would say, I agree and dev maybe this is
just extra annoying for people who work in the media,
which is that I am sure that you got taught
the same role that I did at the BBC, which is,
any time that you are around a microphone, assume that
it is live, Like, oh yeah, your fucking first rule
of this thing is come on, you failed the first rule.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
To get it together, Get it together. TC. I saw
Barbara's response on social media. I thought it was excellent.
To seek that out if you want as well, But
I thought BK handle it well.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Not great though, is it? It really is great? Let's move on?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So, uh, Lenda Remacca, what should we just describe a
twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Four hours mixed cursed curse? Is probably yeah, more accurate,
definitely cursed, right?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
And what way to change this than to appoint Goreny
Gore and Ibidiezevitcha's your coach going forward?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
What do your what do you make of this?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
There's such an interesting coaching choice, one that I think
makes sense potentially on.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
The surface of it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
All time great server working with top three server on
the WTA top two best server.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
I guess you could maybe argue as well.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So certainly from that standpoint, you could see huge benefits
to it. And we've seen the effect I think whether
I don't know how much you want to draw to it,
but Ibanizovitch's effect on the Novak Djokovic just sir, it's
what a weapon it's become.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
And how close do he work with the serf throughout
all of that.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
I just thought this was a very curious matchup and
one that I am very excited to see how it
unfowards for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, that idea of superstar coaches after working with a
goat or the greatest. I'm really curious to see how
they deal with that as well, because Tony Didell's tour
at a farce coaching Felix Bush is see her it
in my brain and I want to remove that with
a better story me too.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I think Ivenizovich is a good coach, regardless of any
opinions that people may have of him. The fact that
he did do the work with I think very clearly
some of the work that he did when v Djokovic
has paid off to sort of prolong his career and
to sort of propel him into the stratuspit that people
think about him as well. And he also I believe,
(30:19):
worked with Marion Chilich as well around the time that
Chileich won the US Open, So there's clearly.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Pedigree there as well. Yeah, curious to see how it goes.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Good luck to them.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Former Manchester United striker Diego Fulan is now a tennis
player dev if you can believe it, he I believe
retired in his late thirties. I want to say thirty six,
thirty seven kind of age, and it's actually apparently a
pretty damn good tennis player by all accounts. He made
his tour debut believe two weeks ago, three weeks ago.
(30:53):
This is a cool story across the board. It's nice
to see. I think professional athletes have second lives in
different different spheres, but sometimes when they actually cross spoards.
You wouldn't have thought that going from a professional footballer
to professional tennis player as possible, and in some ways
it's proved not to be. But he's a good enough
(31:13):
player given where he's ranked and given the age that
he is that this is actually a pretty cool story.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Very cool. Diego Forland also almost came to Toronto to
play with TFC back in the day, so that would
have been cool. But yeah, I always loved his game.
Definitely cool. I feel like tennis is also like this
sec like the favorite second sport of a lot of
pro athletes these days, especially in hockey, you hear a
lot of like Austin Matthews talking tennis stuff. So interesting stuff. Okay,
(31:43):
let's end with a chud before an announcement from us,
but somebody please take away Martina and ravert Alova's Twitter
account take away Twitter entirely at this point, Simon.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I think, with how many days are we since the
U election had election fever? Obviously in twenty twenty four,
massive year for democracy around the world, but so much
has spoken about media literacy and critical analysis and the
way that people vote and the way that people are
swayed by information. I must admit I'm not someone that
(32:17):
comes down on that way too harshly. I think it's
largely used as a position to make fun of or
belittle a cross section of people. There's a level of
elitism in that category. However, I think in this particular
case that we're talking about of Matina now Ratlover clearly
an indication of someone who is not particularly media literate
(32:40):
when it comes to social media and it comes to
online information. I think she falls into a demographic that
I feel fairly confident in saying are not particularly good
at knowing the difference between truth and fake or falseness online.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
She is a bit of a bigot.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I don't think that's a particularly a controversial statement to
make at this point.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Not at all, Not at all. Yeah, I mean, I
think this kind of stuff is so do why I
was feeling super down after Tuesday. I mean, obvious is
the obvious, but similar things are going to happen in
Canada next year with our election, and I think the
platforms that I used to love and flock to to
(33:33):
talk about sports or politics or whatever are completely just
destroyed now. And I'm not just talking about like social media,
but like Google and googling things. Try have you tried
googling things recently? I feel like the capitalist way was
to just break everything in sight to make money off
(33:54):
fixing it. And by fixing I guess we mean really
throwing a spanner in the works and doing whatever they
want to do as we're seeing it. But yeah, I
mean people with large platforms, backed by many famous people,
people who are in the media all the time doing
shit like this, which is just dumb and like, I
(34:17):
don't know, par for the course for her, it's just
why it's yeah, like it's it kind of sums up
to speak, well, like I know it's not electra related,
but this idiocy, it's like, yeah, you couldn't take three
seconds to do some media literacy. Nah, not for me.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I real as we haven't actually told what the story
is we're talking about in one Khalif an Ai. I mean,
I don't even not an Ai. It's just a regular
photoshop damage circulating around the internet, demonstrating fake version of
what her body looks like, and it was retweeted by
Martina and Avratilova. I think, pushing her own extremely conservative,
(34:58):
extremely reactionary, and extremely bad worldview around transgender people. I know,
an awful story and one that continues to somehow reverberate
months and months after something that I thought we could
would finally move past.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Yeah, it's terrible week, not agree week overall, but before
we end, we will also add to your misery or
maybe your happiness, depending on how much.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
You've enjoyed the show. But we do have an announcement
regarding open Era, and I think Simon and I are
going to call it a pod after this season, after
twenty twenty four, so we'll have our usual holiday shows
in December, but that will be that for open Era.
(35:51):
We've been doing this for five years, I believe since
twenty nineteen Bush, but before that started with The Sport Chronicle.
But in twenty nineteen when we started open Era, we
got to join up with space Monkey and work with
people like Clay and Dylan, who's with us today, and
Greg and so many great folks and so many great guests.
(36:12):
But I think we've kind of realized that this is
this is probably the right time to call it for
us as we get increasingly sickened by this morning landscape
when it comes to everything but maybe tennis in particular,
but bush it. It's been an incredible ride. And I
know we have a few episodes left, but yeah, it's bittersweet,
(36:33):
for sure, but it feels like the right time.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
For us to be doing this.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, and I think we can touch on more about
this and what our future looks like and what plans
we have in the next few weeks over the next
few episodes. But I just kind of wanted to join
you and say, obviously, first and foremost thank you to
all of the people that have listened to us across
the years, Like it's always a lovely, lovely situation to
run into people who want to take the time to
(37:00):
listen to the things you put out, to join us
in the discord, to support us like that is astonishing.
I still find it very, very weird to believe I've
made friends through this show. I think it's brought us
and our friendship close together. So from that standpoint, I'm
really really genuinely happy and grateful for that, and I
think secondary dis Space Monkeys as well, I think just
(37:21):
very very thankful to them as well for the support
for the show and continuing to do the way to
support it the way they have done. It's made our
lives significantly easier to continue doing the show for as
long as we have done, so I wanted to put
that out there, maybe just a point on this step.
I'm tired. I know you're tired as well, emotionally and
(37:44):
physically of doing a show for as long as we
have done. I think we've done nearly four hundred episodes
across the two shows, or three hundred and fifty episodes.
We've potted together for seven years, eight years. I think
we've produced so much content between the two different shows.
It's a lot, I think to continue to I don't
think I'm not going to say that I think we're
(38:04):
burnt out. Well, I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say
that for you. I don't feel burnt out. I think
I just feel ready to do something else, like I
want a different creative challenge, rather than feeling like I
want this to end. I've definitely felt burnt out before
about this show, but not that's not currently how I
feel about it. I find it kind of feel like
a sense of ease and closure about the whole thing
(38:26):
that I'm just kind of very happy with what it
was and what it kind of amounted to, and whatever
comes next will be very good as well for us.
Do we want to say that with concreteness that I
don't think this is the last time we'll record together,
Like it won't be the last kind of media that
we produce together. But I think it is for the
(38:47):
I feel pretty concrete in saying that it is for
Open Era.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah. No, I do too, And that's really well said.
I mean, yeah, the listeners have been amazing, Our friends
on Discord have been incredible. Like I think you said
it well, Like, I don't know if it's necessarily burnout,
but I think it's time for something new and some
new ideas and create some new things that were we
(39:15):
want to dig into every week and really or not
every week, maybe every month, but you know, like just
really sink our teeth into it and be passionate about it,
because I think that's what made doing the show so
fun and yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
It's you want to know it's funny? Is that?
Speaker 2 (39:32):
A couple of weeks ag when we were chatting about
this a month ago, we were like floating some ideas
and about what what would want to do different or
what would want to do next as a piece of media.
And while I was away, I was walking through middle
of Amsterdam and I just had of like mulling over
some ideas, putting some voice notes together, and I wrote
down one was like, oh no, that's that is a
recipe for burnout, where it's like, what if we did
(39:56):
a sport chronicle version of all one hundred and three
feder A title wins. So we went through every single
one of them, one week at a time. It's like,
oh god, no, no, no, no, no, no, that is
not a good idea. However, if you do have good ideas,
please let us know.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, send them our way. But yeah, I think that's
a good place to leave it. And we, like we said,
we have a few a few more open eras coming up,
might have some friends join us as well to say goodbye,
but perhaps we'll leave it there for this week as
we look forward to the holiday season. Of course, Davis
(40:33):
Cup as well. RAPHI is Farewell still coming up, so
we'll cover that, plus the holiday rap episodes as well.
But yeah, a major I mean when we started this
Bush we got to go cover the Vancouver Open at
the Challenger Level, which I remember was a big moment.
We recorded out like in the media box there, and
(40:53):
then I got to we got to go on TV,
got to go on and see TV and talk about
tennis and have Open Air and the cry on and
then cover the Rogers Open, Rogers Cup, National Bank Open
because of the show live broadcasting, so I wanted to
talk about tennis. I wanted to make it so that
(41:15):
we could talk about tennis in a way that maybe
broke through it opened some doors, and I think it
did so. On that note, I'm quite pleased with what
we've been able to do here. But we will talk
to you soon on Open Air at least a few
more times. But for now, for Dylan on the ones
into Use and for Simon, thank you so much for
(41:36):
listening to Open Era. We'll talk to you next week.
(42:01):
Stat
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