Zach Eikenberry

None

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
This is a bramble Jam podcast.We know that we have to be flexible,
We know we have to make choices. We know we have to make
these decisions. But our kids,they're they're doing it almost naturally, and
we need to praise them for theirflexibility. Hey, dads, welcome to

(00:34):
another episode of Our Dad's Diary.I'm your bald, bearded and beautiful host
Jonathan Parker. But the beard isslightly smaller, Nathan, Jessica just cut
it way down. And here's thefact of the matter is, I hate
those masks. Now. I don'tneed any emails or any negative reviews.
I don't hate the mask because Idon't believe in COVID. Okay, I
hate the mask because it messes withmy beard. It's very selfish, very

(00:56):
personal. I decided to cut thebeard back. Have no fear. Have
no fear. The beard will returnnext fall, much to my wife's chagrin,
which I'm hoping it's a little moregray this time. I got some
grays coming out on the sides.I'm hoping that it's a little more a
little more gray. All right,enough about my beard. We just wasted
ninety seconds on that. We havean exciting guest today, very exciting.

(01:17):
Oh yeah, my first ever.This is true words parking Man. Listen
up, Zach, zach I canburyes our guests, so you'll hear for
a minute. Is the first entrepreneurI ever met? Oh? Really,
I thought about it on the wayhere. You are. You are the
first entrepreneur I ever met. Wow, I thought you knew a lot more
people were perpetually unemployed. No,the first one. And now look at
what I'm doing for a living.Thank you very much. Dad's welcome,

(01:42):
zach I can barry, Zach,thank you so much for being on our
dad's diary. Is it's my pleasure. This is a lot of fun.
I've listened to pretty much every episodethat's come out those far. It's awesome.
Thanks so much. Well, okay, we're gonna talk about you here
in a little bit, but let'stalk about what's most important, and that's
who you are a dad. Totalk just a little bit about your kids.
Yeah, So I have two littlegirls, uh, Sophia and Adelaide.

(02:04):
They're four and five. They're sixteenmonths apart. Uh Sophia is incredibly
kind and gentle and softhearted. Um, and Adelaide is incredibly fierce. Um,
and so they we named him onpurpose. Of course, Sophia means
wisdom, UM, and Adelaide meansnobility. That's uh, that's our story

(02:28):
and I I'll tell you that.Um. It is my greatest pleasure in
life to be a dad. Absolutely. How did you pick Sophia and Adelaide
since you thought about the names?Uh? Well, first we had to
Uh this might not surprise you.One of the reasons I'm an entrepreneur is
because I studied philosophy in college.Okay, and so you come out of
college and have to hire yourself.Um. But philosophy is the study of

(02:52):
wisdom. Um. And uh thefia, Yeah, this makes sense.
Philosophia. UM. I joked withmy wife that if we had a boy,
I wanted to name them phil,so we could have phil Sophia.
Ah, look at that. No, they would have loved that, going
to cool school together. Yeah,that's it's not going to happen apparently.

(03:12):
Uh. So UM always love wisdom. But we came up with a system
first, where my wife said thefirst name shouldn't be something we speak over
our kids, and it was veryimportant to us that. Um. The
second we found out we were pregnantthat we would actually go ahead and do
the name. Okay, and there'sreasons for that, but uh, so
we wanted to have a first namethat meant something, and then the middle

(03:35):
name of somebody that we knew thatthey could aspire or create as a role
model for themselves. And then ofcourse our our made up last name,
I can Bury made up last name. Yeah, there's no other I could
buries. Go ahead, google ZachI can Bury literally only one in the
world, only one. Yeah,there's billions of people out there on the
made up name I can Bury.Yeah, sure, now that you say

(03:57):
it. So, Uh, SophiaDarlina I can Bury. Darlina's my mom's
name, so wisdom Darlene being theperson that would be great if she aspired
to be. And then last namein Adelaide. Uh. We had a
little tough We had a tougher timenaming our second Uh. Adelaide actually was
inspired by an Anne Berlin song.Oh that great band. Uh there's a

(04:18):
song called Adelaide after Adelaide Australia,Okay, looked it up. Means nobility.
Um, it's a it's a royalname. And so we did that
plus Jessica, which is my wife'ssister who lives up in Chicago right now.
So it was Adelaide Jessica or ajUm and Adelaide Jessica, I Camary

(04:42):
and Sophia Darline. That's awesome.Do you ever call her aj I've never
heard you call her aj No,she doesn't like it, Okay, so
Um, that's the fierceness that comesout. You've never had to look at
Adelaide and say, what are youreally thinking? Ah? Just right out
there. So you've got fierce andkind. So do they do they battle
a little bit? Or are theymostly ginger with each other? No,

(05:02):
they compliment each other really. Ohthat's great. Yeah. The one of
our favorite stories is on the playground. One time they go to this small
little school where they have perhaps anexcessive amount of time outside, and there

(05:23):
was a day where Sophia runs backup to us as we're coming to pick
her up from school and she's she'scrying, or it's clear that she has
been crying. We said, well, trunk, Sophia, and she's like,
there's a little boy over there who'ssaying mean things to me. And
we're like, where's that little boy, and we go over and Adelaide has
her finger and this boy. Sophieis the older she's five, and the

(05:45):
four year old at the time,three was standing up for her older sisters,
saying, you be kind. Thosearen't true words. Oh that's awesome.
Seven year old boy, look atthat. Yeah, they compliment each
other really well, that's great.That's that's actually a fun thing to see
happen. That's some sid parenting rightthere, solid parenting. I wish I
could take credit. Yeah, Jennygets the Jenny gets the bonus points for
that way. That's pretty great.Okay, So we'll come back to your

(06:08):
dad life here in a minute.But even though dad life requires full time
attention, right being a dad,thinking about our kids always on your mind,
you also have to keep the lightson and no food on the table,
things like that. So I knowthis is a childy question for you.
What else do you do in additionto being a dad and share a
little bit of your story and yourjourney for our listeners? Yeah, so

(06:30):
you might. You might call mea serial entrepreneur. I don't know a
better way of saying it. Outof college, I hired myself. So
a big fan of folks chasing theirown version of their dreams however that looks,
and so built a number of differentcompanies. Currently, I'm doing a

(06:53):
cybersecurity training firm called Hook Security.We are startup. You raised a little
bit of money and now we're out. Um I'm doing the thing that you
do and software as a service orSaaS. So that's that's where I am
previous to this. Um uh,you were there. We we launched two
high schools in a middle school throughoutthe upstate of South Carolina to help train

(07:15):
young people to be entrepreneurial, todevelop an entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial mindset. So,
um, that's a. That's ahighlight of my story. Um,
it's a. It is an interestingworld to live in when um, I
only wrote one resume in my life. I'm back in college and decided for
an assignment. No, no,it was it was a job fair.

(07:35):
I went out and got a cheapsuit and built a resume and went and
tried to get a job from somebody. And that was miserable and so,
um, the my story is onein which it's there's a lot of ups
and downs. I don't wish entrepreneurshipon my worst enemy, But at the
same time, it's the it's alife that I find incredibly fulfilling for myself.

(07:58):
Yeah, what would you say toa dad who's considering you. They
have kids, He has kids,one or twelve, however many, and
he's thinking about going out on hisown, but he's nervous because he didn't
hire himself right out of you know, college, He's done the corporate thing
for a little bit. What advicewould you give a dad who says,
hey, I have a dream.I think I can make money doing this,
but I'm just not sure I'm readyto step out. Yeah, so

(08:20):
I think I think at one Iwas a reality check. You're probably gonna
be bad at it when you firststart, so you might as well get
going right and get through that phaseof being bad at it, because it's
gonna be hard to manage both yourexpenses and your revenues and getting clients and
learning how to fire your first clientsto get better clients the next time around.

(08:41):
You're going to go through that wholejourney. But at the end of
the day, I would actually I'vetalked to a number of folks who have
come up to me and said,you know something, similar like, Hey,
Zach, I want to start myown business, but I have a
steady paycheck and I have my familyto take care of, and I'm super
nervous that, Like, you knowthat it's too risky, and I don't

(09:01):
know. How do you? Howdo you manage risk? And I well,
one, I think most people don'tare in that vein. Most people
don't properly calibrate risk. And Imean that to say, one, it's
very risky putting your paycheck in somebodyelse's hands. And so if you don't
have control over where you're getting paid, you're already taking a tremendous amount of

(09:24):
risk for your family. They tryto mask over that by giving you benefits,
which you overinflate in your head.You think healthcare it costs way more
than it actually does, or somethingalong those signs. The other thing that
I often challenge dads or parents whenthey're considering jumping out on their own is
an idea is good or bad regardlessof how many kids you have. The

(09:48):
idea doesn't become more risky because youhave three kids. You're like, oh,
if I only had one kid,then I would jump and do this
idea. Well, what do yournumber of kids have to do with the
risk of the business that you're consideringdoing. If it's a good idea,
then do it. Do it withtwelve kids, do it with a lot
of responsibility on your plate. Yeah, maybe you have a tighter route to

(10:09):
walk. And I'm not saying it'seasy, right, And I'm not going
to say that you're going to bethe same person on the other side that
you go into it as you're goingto change. But the risk of starting
a business really has nothing to dowith your kids. And we might get
into this later, but one ofmy core thoughts on fatherhood is that your

(10:35):
kids are actually rooting for you tobe the person you should be. They
want to thrive in a family inwhich dad's doing well. Yeah, And
so if dad doing well means thathe needs to hire himself and get out
of that job and go start something, then your kids are actually rooting for
you. They're not standing against yousaying, oh no, what about what
are we going to eat? Andwhat about my college? One day we're

(10:58):
going to say I would rather berace and a family in which dad's pursued
his purpose. Yeah, that's reallygood. Yeah, I mean no,
personally speaking, I don't think Iwould have entered this entrepreneur world in life
without your influence. I mean wehad that first meeting coffee underground, but
almost a decade ago. That's right, we were really we still are young

(11:20):
and think we can change the world, but we were really young. I
think we could change the world.But I mean just hearing your story and
talking and we've been friends ever since. But I don't think I would have
stepped out on my own little bylittle. I think that's the other thing.
Dad's like, you don't have toquit your whole job to start a
business, like stay up a littlelater, you know, ease into it.
But I don't think I would havedone without you. And I just

(11:41):
wanted to take this moment to saythank you for sending such an example,
being encouragement, helping Jessicailo in theway I really appreciate that. Well,
well, of course, I'm honoredto be any anybody's story, but it's
their story to tell, so youget all the credit for all the ups
and downs of your journey. Wow, I'm glad you're a part of our

(12:01):
journey too. But let's talk aboutjourneys. Let's go back a little bit,
let's go a little back in time. Let's talk about your relationship with
your dad. I'm looking back now, how would you just how would you
describe your relationship with your dad whenyou were a kid and teenager? Well,
so this might be helpful background,But early childhood I was raised in

(12:22):
a community called Old Order brother orGerman Baptist middle nowhere Indiana, farm country.
So beards and bonnets, Sunday morningchurch. Women on one side,
men on the other, all acappella. So it's kind of like Amish,
only we drove cars. That's acrude way to say it. But
that's the world that I started growingup in. I think we got our

(12:46):
first TV when I was twelve,wow or so. We ended up leaving
that church when I seven. Wewent to a regular Baptist church. But
the what does it mean to bea dad in masculine in that church is
pretty different from the rest of theworld. Um, you know, fathers
or praised for being hard working,for being people of integrity, for being

(13:09):
men a few words. Um.And so my dad was coming out of
that world and out of that culture, was um heavily influenced. If not,
he was an example and epitome ofthat. Um So, um,
my wife jokes that, Um,I've probably only heard my dad say you

(13:33):
know twenty words wo U. Itis more than that. But he is
a quiet man, um. Andso what happens when he does talk is
you listen. You listen very closely. Um. And he he also he
married my mom and that's a wholestory. That's unique. Um. But

(13:54):
he was intending to be a bachelorhis whole life. And um, so
he married late. I think hewas thirty six when he got married.
Oh wow, that's pretty late forRule America farmers. Yeah, especially in
a church, especially in a churchlike that. Yeah, so uh he
I think, Um, to befair, he always had to intentionally navigate

(14:20):
being a dad. He had togo outside of his comfort zone to interact.
I have two younger brothers, sothere's three boys. And he left
a lot of the daily ray thetasks of daily family life to my mom.
Okay, because he was praised forbeing hard working. So we had

(14:41):
a farm. That farm went largelybelly up and went bankrupt as hog farming
and corn and soybean. Um.He took a job at a local university
in which he worked forty hours aweek, and then he would come home
and do home inspect or. Thenhe would go do two home inspections,
come home, right the respect reports, read the Wall Street Journal cover to

(15:01):
cover, read his Bible or abook beside his bed. Um, go
to bed by nine am and getback up at four thirty am every day.
Wow. Um, And that wasthat was the life and that's what
he did. And so UM,I would say, like, my relationship
with my father had to undergo afew transformations over time. Um. This

(15:26):
is something I would say to anybody, UM, but especially dads, is
that you do have to go through, um, a number of changes in
your relationship with your parents to havea healthy relationship. Yeah. The I
think it's normal for most people.But they're young. Boys are naturally want

(15:52):
to make their dad a hero whenthey're when they're younger. So my dad
can beat up your dad, right, my dad's stronger, faster, Yeah,
and so you put your dad ona pedestal. But somewhere, perhaps
in your teenage years, you startnoticing their flaws and you get very disappointed.
You start realizing that they're also abit of an anti hero and that
they're not you want to be ahero like them, but they're not supporting

(16:17):
you in different ways to do justthat they're not. Or you compare your
dad to other dads and you're you'releft feeling lacking, or you're wondering what's
going on. You might even feellost. Um. And I think there
are people who get stuck in thatand they carry around that set of wounds

(16:37):
the rest of their life. ButUM, somewhere in my late twenties,
I realized that, UM, ifI was going to blame my dad for
all the missteps and the shortcomings,all the all the ills of my life,
then I also needed to blame themfor the good. There you go.
So you can't you can't blame peoplefor half of it. And so

(17:03):
that's when I'll use a theological drip. And that's when my dad and our
relationship was resurrected. So it diedand then it had to come back to
life. And I think that's avery healthy thing to go through. Um.
And so when you asked me aboutmy dad today, I can only
like see him through the lens oflike a new resurrected relationship all the way
back. So today I respect thefact that he worked hard, he'd never

(17:26):
had a college degree, he didn'thave a lot of things going for him,
but he's still provided for my family. We still never were lacking,
although things might have been tough.And he gave me a work ethic,
and he gave me armors our entrepreneurin a sense, and he gave me

(17:48):
that confidence that I can go dothat. And so I wouldn't be an
entrepreneur without my dad. And whatyou just confessed is you went to be
entrepreneur unless there are other people likeme, and your story exactly, And
so we can even blame this podcastexisting because of my dad. If you're
going to blame people for all theshortcomings, you gotta blame them for the
good. Yeah, that's a greatway of thinking about it. And you

(18:11):
know, Dad's moms, if you'relistening, I think Zach touched on a
point that I want to spend atleast another minute or two on. You
might have had just like this remarkablerelationship with your kids when they were toddlers.
And you know, I don't knowwhat elementary students right, it's still
called the elementary school. The namesare early school or something like that.
Now, anyway, you know,elementary school. And then you know,

(18:33):
they hit the teenage years and that'swhen typically things get rough. And I
think Zach just pointed out, youknow, you go from this hero mentality
to now they're seeing the flaws andthis antihero and rather than fight, Well,
this is how I'm hearing. Youknow, cred if I'm wrong here,
Zach, but I'm hearing it's like, don't fight the antihero. Realize
that that's an indication for time ofthe relationship needs to change. So if

(18:56):
the relationship needs to change, howwould you you know, as you're thinking
about, how would you coach adad who was, you know, experiencing
some of this anti here, Likemy kid and I are arguing, we
never argued before. How would yousay, hey, now is the time
to change, to resurrect, tolet one piece die, so that's something
new can live. Yeah, so, uh of course. Um. One

(19:18):
of the challenges that occurs is thatall of a sudden there's a lack of
trust. So communications actually the difficultthing. Like you could you could say
you just need to talk more.Um. You know, I when I
was running a high school, Igot to see a number of parents attempt
to interact with their kids and theywould they would say things like, we're
you know, I try to talkto them, but they just put on

(19:41):
their headphones and they zone out atdinner and I can't get a word in
edgeways. They go to their room, um, And I think what what
matters more is the persistent attempt tobe there, um and the voluntary attention.
So voluntary attend is this idea thatyou give your kids attention at times

(20:03):
when they're not asking for it.You are the one the volunteer. If
if you look back at your lifeand every interaction you had with your kid
was started by your kid. Theycame to you when they were hungry.
They came to you and they wantedto show you something, They needed something
from you, They needed something fromyou. They start the majority of interactions.
Yeah, whatever that interaction is,then you're not giving them voluntary attention.

(20:26):
So one of the ways to navigatethat with teenagers is to start giving
them voluntary attention and start demonstrating afew things that meet them on their terms.
Yeah. So a great deal ofempathy for them because you have to
mourn the fact that you've you've knownthat you're not well, let me put

(20:49):
this away. You know how awfulyou are and you've known that for years.
You're a dad, like you knowall your shortcoming. Yeah, yeah,
you're very well aware that you're nota hero, right, very flawed.
Yeah. Um, but there's somebodyin your house that has just realized
that a couple months ago. Yeah, and they're mourning that, they're wrestling
with it, and so approaching themin a way that says like, man,

(21:12):
I know you're mourning this, like, um, but let me tell
you that I think, in spiteof who I am as a dad,
you can be an awesome dad,and that that has to do with a
number of actions. M I'll usemy own dad's story like that. Was
probably the hardest thing that I hadto deal with was my dad didn't do

(21:34):
the pass off of masculinity. Henever looked at me and said, Okay,
you're a real man. Now.Some people get that with their relationship
with their dad. I didn't.I got that from other male figures boy
scout leader or basketball coach, businessmentor over the years. Um. So
I had to forgive my dad thathe didn't do that, and that's part

(21:57):
of the resurrected idea that I havea new relationship with my dad in spite
of that. But if you're adad and you have a chance to speak
or show someone that in spite ofwho you are, they can be who
they need to be. That goesa long way. And I think having

(22:18):
a lot of empathy for your kids. So starting with voluntary attention, you're
initiating conversations with them more than theyinitiate with you, even though in that
it would be helpful if you start, the earlier you start the better.
Yeah. Sure, I see thiswith parents all the time. Like we'll
be hanging out with parents, andit's important that even when you're hanging out

(22:40):
with another couple or something and theyhave kids, that you go initiate attention
with those kids first before they keepcoming to you saying I'm hungry, or
they're tattling on their brother or sisteror something. Voluntary attention, empathy and
explicitly bestowing affirmation around their femininity,your masculinity is incredibly important. We're gonna

(23:03):
keep this conversation going about dad life, but we're gonna take a quick break.
We'll be right. And I've seenzachly this out. You know,
when you've come over to play withmy kids, you always are giving them
intention. You let them run aroundwith your hat and you play with them.
And when you talked about this ideaof volunteer attention, I think that's

(23:26):
why there's a difference when like Judassays, hey, will you come and
play a game with me? Versusme saying, come on, Jude,
let's go play a game. Imean, his excitement level and joy level
is substantially more, significantly noticeably different. When I said all right, come
on, it's game time. Let'sgo. He's all in. So you
know, Dad's listen. If youdon't believe us, just try it.

(23:48):
Like it's not gonna hurt for youto try one time asking your kid to
go play a game with you.But I'm telling you that excitement, that
joy is totally different. Yeah.So there's two equal and opposite for on
a number of things. But oneof my favorites is people want to be
seen and people want to see things. So when when your kids are growing

(24:10):
up, they want to see thingsfrom you, but they also want to
feel like they're being seen by you. And so those are two different emotional
states that I think young people gothrough. And they're like, oh,
when I come up to dad,he sees me. But also when I'm
not around dad, he pursues andsees me. Yeah, and like I
don't have to. So there isthis idea of like negative attention, and

(24:33):
you've you've seen this, Like mostpeople are smart enough to realize, oh
that kid's just acting out or guy'she acting out. Well, he gets
no voluntary attention from adults. Everyinteraction with an adult is started by his
behavior. Yeah, and so thereverse of that is, um, why
don't you preempt it? And itdoesn't have to be you spend time with

(24:53):
it them. If if you're busyand you have other priorities that are intersecting
your time time, go and sayhi to your kids and intersect with them,
ask them a few questions, andthen say, hey, I'm going
to be doing x Y after this, I would like to give you more
attention. So let's circle back.And that sets a whole expectation and stage

(25:15):
like, oh, I live ina house where I'm seen. Yeah,
I live in an environment where Ican be seen, and that's that's very
important. Yeah, that's really good. It's really good. So thinking again
about your childhood, you know,you talked about this relationship with your dad.
You know one section of it orone season of it. You know
there was a death, then there'sa resurrection, there's other season. So
is there one story in your mindfrom either of really the seasons that stands

(25:38):
out to you from your dad?And then what advice do you glean from
that? And what advice do youshare with your girls and our listeners from
it? You know, UM,I wasn't joking when I said I've had
limited conversations with my dad. There'sI'll tell the the top story that comes

(26:00):
to mind. We'll see if thishelps. By the way, I don't
um, I feel like I'm soundingvery like a psychologist or or the like.
Um, I'm fascinated by psychology,but that's not my not my degree.
Yeah no, uh no, onetake professional medical or psychological advice from
this podcast. But this is howZach talks all the time too, So

(26:22):
this is not abnormal for me.That's absolutely right. UM, I am
a pleasure and a joy to bearound. That's absolutely right. You smile
just all the time. So I'llshare an interaction one time. So I'm
out of college and I go homeand uh, my dad read the Wall

(26:45):
Street Journal cover to cover every day. Um. Part of the reason he
did that was he didn't go tocollege. But he read one time that
if you read the Wall Street Journalcover to cover every day, it's the
for a year, it's the equivalentof an NBA. And he said,
oh, that's the cheapest NBA a'llkit. And so he got a subscription

(27:06):
and he read it cover to coverevery day for years and years, maybe
fifteen years. Wow. So rightnow in his retirement, he's a he's
a day trader, and he hasmade more money last year in twenty twenty
than he did his last twenty yearsworking as a day trader because he understands
the markets. But that's an aside. I come home and and my senior

(27:33):
year of college, I had pursuedgoing to grad school, but because of
a relationship fell apart and I feltlike my whole world was changing. I
was going to go hire myself anddo some things and my dad. I
walk in and my dad puts downthe Wall Street Journal, which is a
big deal. You said, hejust ignores you when you walk into the
room because he's reading. Did youhear the paper like crumble and to go

(27:56):
on the table? You knew,Oh, yeah, It was very like
Christmas story, like the dad likegrunts and makes the man noise and closes
the paper and he looks at meand he says, um, so what
are you gonna do? Said,well, I'm thinking about like starting this
consulting firm and I want to getinto like I have this idea to like

(28:18):
refurbish printers at the time. Andhe goes, what do you what's your
what's your goal with that? Isaid, well, I think I want
to be a millionaire. That'd becool. I don't know what that means,
right, sounds good. Yeah,I don't know millionaires, but like,
I think that sounds great. Um, And he goes, huh,

(28:41):
never met a lazy millionaire? Okay, well what's that mean? He goes,
uh, there's this idea that,um, millionaires are lazy folks that
exploit other people and are are constantlyare Um, it's unearned at the end

(29:04):
of the day, right, Likeand so he says, however, I
just want you to know that Ihave never met in my life a millionaire
that did not earn every dollar.That's awesome, So we know, hypothetic.
And I was just sat there like, huh. So ever since then,
I took that away like, um, yeah, if I have financial

(29:25):
goals with my companies or my work, um, there's no shortcut. Yeah,
it's on the other side of hardwork, hard work, and it's
on the other side of earning everydollar. That's amazing and so um.
I would say that's the story thatsticks out when it comes to thinking of
my dad. But it wasn't aboutif I'm hearing correctly that the lesson there
wasn't well, I'm gonna go makea million dollars. It's no, I'm

(29:45):
gonna have to work like hard worksa part of it. Being lazy is
not part of it. Yeah,I think. I mean, I don't
know what he thought now that Idissect the story. Maybe he was concerned
that I would be lazy. Hewas he was trying to. He was
trying to. I got that,all right, A passive way of letting,
letting you know, hello, sudden, Yeah, yeah, you know,
hey dad, I want to bean actor. Well, just so

(30:07):
you know, ugly people can't beactors, right, I think that is
a Yeah. I'm just gonna letthat one go because that was funny on
its own. You know, Ido think I don't think this is an
important lesson for Dad's right here,because I fell into it. I fell
into this trap I think early on. And I don't know if I'm completely
out of it and if I amnot on the journey on how I did.

(30:30):
But there is this element that Ithink's really important is demonstrating to your
kids hard work, not being lazy, but also not whining and complaining about
work around your kids all the time. So early on when they were young,
you know, a long day,oh, tough work day, you
know, just coming back when Iwhen I've worked a normal job. But
we were starting to paint a picturefor our kids that work is fun,

(30:52):
work is energizing, work is serious, and you work hard. We're trying
not to complain around the idea ofwork because we don't want to mess with
the concept of work in their mindsso that when they hear work they think
negative. And I think, youknow, dads, we have to be
careful when we're coming home not tomake work sound negative because that's affecting the
world view of our children. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, there's probably

(31:15):
a whole podcast we can do ifwe ever wanted to dissect the nature of
work and what does it mean tobe disciplined and productive and where fulfillment comes
from all of that, because Ithink there's there's a level in which it's
fair to say that a number ofdads struggle with their career and their work.

(31:37):
Yeah, and we're not asking youto bottle that up, We're not
asking you not to process it.But having the right mindset about what work
is and what you're trying to bringyour kids up in to understand might be
incredibly helpful. Like, um,I think all the time I am actually

(32:00):
a natural spender when it comes tomoney. So when when it comes to
money, I'm like, make itin. Oh, we want that,
get it, we want that?Get it? Yeah. Right. However,
with my girls, I don't wantthem to believe that money is something
you get so you can buy things, correct. I think we want them
to understand money is something you getso that you can save and invest in

(32:22):
things, whatever whatever paradigm shift thatis, and that is something that I
aspire to. So I have toactually use myself as the anti example of
the anti hero and say, unlikeDad and how I spend money, I
really think you'll get a lot ofout of life if you save and invest
your money right so UM, andI think kids can understand that when you

(32:46):
put it up properly, like,hey, unlike where I'm at right now
with work, I think work isreally important in Dad's on a journey to
find work that is meaningful to himand highly productive and meets a larger purpose.
Right now, I don't have thatjob or something. But you can
talk to your kids about that,and maybe there's age appropriateness about what they

(33:07):
comprehend right um. But yeah,my my two cents is I think kids
should um or maybe one of thereasons that I'm I'm always on a crusade
with with other folks that are parentsor UM people in my same stage of
life is UM. I have thisunderlying philosophy if there's something bad in the

(33:30):
world, I want to introduce mygirls to it. Um And uh.
That means for a lot of things, and that I know that there's there's
some stuff that's really bad out therethat I wanted to make sure that I'm
I'm beside them as they as theystart to process what that is. But
if there is a thing as likea bad boss or a job that doesn't

(33:52):
work or a um, you know, a bad day, like, I'm
want to be the one that helpsintroduce that to them, and I want
to be the one that helps guidethem through how to process that, because
I want my girl's world to beas big as possible and include as much

(34:13):
data as possible as they grow,Right, Yeah, being the ones.
I mean, it's one of thereasons Jessica and I are homeschooling right now.
I'm not saying we're doing forever.Is we wanted to be the primary
influencers but introduction to the world onour plan, but also just when things
popped up. We wanted to bethe first one that was there to introduce

(34:34):
them or influence them when they firstmet whatever the good or bad scenario was.
Now, that's not saying homeschool isperfect. It makes sense for every
family, but the concept can stillbe there. If your kids hear something
at school and they bring it home, address it right there. Don't don't
push it away, don't tell themit's ron, don't tell them it's you
know, you can't tell them they'retoo young if they've been exposed to it
already. I mean, if it'salready been exposed, they are the age.

(34:57):
They are the age of which theyneed to be talked. That's right.
And um that I think that's actuallyreally brilliant to say, like if
they've been exposed, then they're nottoo young. Like that's yeah, that's
what you That is the thing todeal with in the moment. And now
your your primary tool as a parentis asking questions, um, and guiding
them through by questions, because um, it's not about giving them answers,

(35:22):
especially as they get older, likeyou can start giving them waste to answers
is jumping off points, especially whenthey're asking you questions, um. But
as they get older, it's thequestions they ask themselves that controls their own
inner dialogue and their own interpretation ofthe world. Um. And I'll say
it this way, like I'm abig fan of what and how questions,

(35:44):
so not why questions. So whenyou when some when your kid comes home
and says, um, you know, rattles off a phrase or word that
uh they heard, and you're likeyou, you and your wife look at
each other and like, it ain'thear from me. It ain't hear from
me, right, Which maybe it'sfair to blame your wife for those things.

(36:06):
Yeah, for sure, had tobe you. You're with them more.
Yeah, exactly, that sounds likeyou that intonation that is your side
of the family. That's right.Um. But instead of asking like why
did you say that? Right?Or you know, why why are you
talking like that? Which puts peopleon a defense and now your kid has
to like process some sort of defensivething and realizes they need to build a

(36:30):
bubble around this so they don't getin trouble again. Right, Um,
you know what do you think thatmeans? You know? Um? How
did how did you hear that word? You know? Um? Do you
do you like that word? Doyou think like? Um? And it
actually by going deeper into like thatword, if this is the example,
or deeper into whatever context, youcan actually diffuse it a lot more by

(36:53):
keeping the mystery out of it.And so um, I'm I'm not suggesting
universal principles per se, but Ido think these are really good tools to
pick up and go to first asyou as you sort out bringing your kids
up and having them exposed to abigger one. We're gonna keep this conversation
going about dad life, but we'regonna take a quick break. We'll be

(37:15):
right back. Yeah, these aresuch good tactical approaches and avenues for dads
and moms who are listening, butfor dads, you know, when you're
thinking about these things, reference thispodcast, go back, listen to it

(37:36):
again, write some of these thingsdown, try these things out again.
We're not positioning ourselves as experts onwhat it means to be a dad,
because we're still trying to figure thisout as we go. But we are
setting out and sharing examples of ourdad life that we've seen impact other dads,
and we're stealing from other dads togive examples to you. So it's
not that we're experts in this.We're still working it out, but we

(37:57):
are giving examples of not only ourown life, but the lives of our
own dads and then our friends.So, Zach, let's just keep chatting
here about kind of your work becauseyou do have this entrepreneurial you did hire
yourself kind of in charge of life. So there's an intersection, right of
work life, family life. Nowit's holistic, but you know, like
you said, even even use theword there's an intersection point. So what

(38:19):
are some of the celebrations of theseintersections for you and your work with your
girls and some of the challenges thatyou've had to overcome with your work life
and being a dad. Yeah,so I'll say that in my journey,
there's a there's a number of celebrations. Well, let me put it this

(38:40):
way. My life is so closelytied to my work that my reward in
my productivity, it's part of thathard work ethic. I get a lot
of value out of waking up everyday and knowing that good news is their
resurrections possible and I can I canhandle the day. I get a lot

(39:01):
of value out of that. Andso um, I'm fortunate in that whatever
comes my way that day, Ihave a worldview and a set of tools
that I can I can handle thatday. And I hope that I could.
Whatever problems I have, I hopethat I can become bigger than those

(39:22):
problems over time. Like and sowhen it comes to like the celebrations,
like I celebrate the ups and downsof my business all the time, Like
I get a new contract with acustomer, or we're able to land an
investment, or um, some othermilestone is reached, or I m I
see somebody in our company begin tothrive or take on additional like those are

(39:45):
the things that I'm celebrating, andUM, I do talk about them with
my family, with my like UM, and the challenges are the same,
like when you lose a customer oran investor that you thought was going to
come through doesn't, or or you'rehaving trouble and you're like, I don't
know if I'm going to make payrollin the next thirty days. Those challenges

(40:06):
too are right there with me,and I don't always handle them the best
way. So my my unhealthy spaceis to get depressed. Ye, so
you know, I'm not actually ananxious person as much as I am a
depressed person. I feel like afailure in certain ways, and I'll I'll

(40:28):
just binge Netflix for a few hoursor more. And so the the interesting
thing is my life is so integratedbetween my work and my family that the
boundaries come only on like, um, certain context, like you know,

(40:49):
if my doors closed to my office, I'm on a phone call, but
otherwise you can come in and talkto me throughout the day and and other
things that I am working from homebecause that's the way the world is now,
right. UM. So that that'san interesting thing where I've heard people
talk about having to shut on,shut off, etc. UM. And
I can. I can absolutely relateto UM why that would be necessary,

(41:15):
But mine is actually far more integratedand I think I wanted that life when
I first started out. The biggestappeal about hiring yourself or being an entrepreneurial
UM is the idea that time isyours to command and control. And UM,

(41:36):
I would take a lower paycheck anyday or more flexibility and time and
so I can work from anywhere.I can be available at any time for
my family or my girls. UM, And that's important to me. So
the the flip side is they ridethe roller coaster. Yea. They know
the ups and downs of the businessbecause it's there, that's right in front

(41:59):
of them, right, it's it'sa family business, whether they like it
or not. Yeah, yeah,I think that. I mean that entrepreneurial
piece. I have turned down moremoney over the last couple of years because
I don't want to lose the time. I love having breakfast, like being
able to cook breakfast for my kids. I love being at the dinner table
six nights a week, you know. I love being there and having the

(42:21):
time. And if that means Igot to get up at four am,
to like work from four to tenso I can do other things. Then
that's that's on me. I don'thave to wait for the office to be
on. So I do love thatport. But you're exactly right. They
ride the roller coaster like we're veryhonest when we don't have money, like
no, we're's out of money,like we back groceries, powers on kids
like bananas next week. It getspaid next week. But but there,

(42:45):
here's the thing that you're right about. You know, they want the best.
You know, kids are rooting fortheir parents to be the best.
But kids are rooting. Do youspend time with their parents? That's what
they want. They want regular,consistent time that they can count on with
their parents. Not, well,no, I am probably pontificating here.

(43:07):
Not I'm gonna work sixty hours aweek so I get one week off where
I'm so drained and so exhausted.That is not what your kids want.
Yeah, that's that's that's not all. Um. I'll share this only because
it's been. It's it's been umbetter than I could have imagined. And
this might fall into celebrations and challenges, but um I decided, Oh a

(43:31):
year and a half, two yearsago to move my schedule where I worked
six days and was off one.I said, Okay, I'm gonna just
Sabbath one day. And it seemsto be what the command is. Instead
of having a weekend where there's kindof like two days off somewhat something you
feel really guilty if you work.I was like, I'm just going to

(43:52):
treat Sunday as my first day ofthe week. I'm going to get up,
I do the church thing, um, and but that afternoon and that
day is on like, I getup at five thirty am on Sundays because
that's the day. That's the timeI get up every other day, and
so and I have I keep myroutine even on Sundays, even though the
first block of my Sunday is theum, you know, going to church

(44:17):
and doing my faith thing. Andthen what I do from then on is
I work on Sunday afternoons, Ihave I have phone call scheduled, I
do things, I push out emails, I get projects done, and that's
my first day of the week.The second day, on a Monday of
my week, that's when the restof the team comes in, right,
and I get to work with them. But I've already been in the workshop

(44:37):
for a day. The flip sideis Saturdays. I am my girls.
We have our own traditions, routines. I don't look at my phone on
Saturdays. I am not watching Netflix. There is no such thing as dad
time unless the girls want to havetheir own time, right. But I

(44:58):
am absolutely available and I come upwith the schedule. And it's also important
because it's the day my wife hasoff too, so we work that in.
Whereas it's she can go do herthings, and that's the day she
likes to get her nails did andyou know, go on errands or sleep
in or whatever it is she needsto do. She ends up most of

(45:19):
the time by Saturday afternoons and evenings. It's like a family day, so
I end up doing stuff with us. But um whatever, for whatever,
that was life changing for me.That's great and that was life giving.
Where um I now and I don'tfeel guilty about trying to work on the
weekends or anything like that. I'mI'm game on on Sundays. That's great.

(45:40):
I am off on Saturdays. Goodluck trying to get me on Saturday.
That's that's awesome. I mean,whether or not you can go six
days of work or five. Guys, you need one day. Even if
you don't believe in the Sabbath orbelieve the Bible, science proves this enough
research back. You need a dayoff. Just take a day off.
Your kids need to take a dayoff. Your spouse, your partner needs

(46:02):
you to take a day off.You have to take a day off.
You need to rest. Um,all right, Zach. So now you
kind of just talked about one ofthem. But what is in your opinion,
what's the best part about being adad? Oh? Um, the
best part about being a dad?I guess if I if I answer it
selfishly, it's I didn't know whoI was. I think I was a

(46:30):
two D person until I had kids. Um. Not to say that people
who don't have kids can't be threeD, but for me, I was
awoke to a whole different dimension ofmyself. Yeah, And part of it
was I think, like what Iwas doing started mattering more and more to

(46:51):
others, and I found myself morefully, fully alive, like like life
it's elf. Um, had thestakes were raised, and I like that.
I liked that what I was doingmattered right, and I had a
reason to Um, besides just thefinancial outcomes and keeping myself busy. I

(47:17):
had other reasons to have a businessthat, um pursued some sort of significance
or success. Yeah, and sowhat it's hard for me to actually remember
myself before kids. I don't knowif anybody else has that. Like,
my memories are fuzzy. I'm like, what did I do? Did I
stay up late? That's why there'spictures? And I was like, we
did that? Yeah? Did didthat happened? Did I do brunch?

(47:43):
That's that's a fuzzy. But atthe same time, I like, look
at myself now, I'm like,well, what what kind of shell of
a person was? I like,maybe I wasn't a shell. Maybe that's
too dramatic, but I definitely feellike, all of a sudden, I
had a number of other colors topaint with in my life and I felt

(48:05):
like, um, there's a wholenother level in which I could live my
life and that was super cool.And maybe that's abstract. I'll I'll say
it this way, Uh, thereis nothing better than someone who just unconditionally
just wants to be around you andcuddle up with you. And both my

(48:29):
little girls are snugglers, so it'smost mornings. They're the ones that wake
us up, or at least ona Saturday morning seven thirty seven am,
they will not sleep in it,will run into our bedroom and jump on
us and cuddle with us and likethere is something that is a special grace

(48:49):
about that that um makes makes youfeel like I said, three d yeah,
yeah, that's awesome. All right, Well you said you've listened to
these, so you probably knew thiswas coming, you know. So it's
our dad's diary. So we liketo give the dad's an opportunity that if
this was the last diary entry,that you'd be able to leave your girls,

(49:12):
which we hope it's not. Butif it was the last one,
the only one ever recorded, whatis it that you'd want to say to
them? So you're not talking tome, you're not talking excuse me,
So you're not talking to me orthe listeners. You're talking directly to your
two girls. So you're look atthat camera right there, and leave a
diary entry for your girls, Sophieand Adelaide. Of course, I hope

(49:40):
you know that your mom and Iwe love you more than we can express,
perhaps more than you know. Iwant you to know that you live
in a world in which resurrection ispossible, that no matter how hard things
get, those hard things can makeand push you to be better. Part

(50:13):
of the reason that I'm your dadis I've had a lifetime of meeting challenges
and attempting to be bigger than thoseand I pray that you grow up to
be bigger than the challenges that youface. And as we say every night,
I want you to remember that Ican buries are brave, I can

(50:37):
buries are wise, and I canburies our kind. I hope that you
look to your mother and follow herexample. I hope that you look to
me and sort that out. Andjust know that whatever you do, whatever

(51:00):
you choose to do in life,whatever you end up pursuing, that when
you get to our door, don'thesitate. Come right in, um,
because we love you, and UMwe're proud of you. You have some
great girls. My friend and Iknow our wives secretly hope that one of

(51:22):
my boys mary one of your girls, so that it's not really secret.
It's not secret. They advocate forit. Yeah, it's it's it's a
conversation every time we come over,which that would make holidays so much more
simple for us, right, Zach, this has been awesome. Thank you
so much for sharing about your dadlife and being a great friend, being
a great dad. It's it's trulymy honor to know you can call your

(51:44):
friend a thank you. Likewise,So Parker Man, you will remember this
point of our lives. You know. I know some parents think, oh,
they'll never remember this, or Iwonder if they'll remember this. You
will remember being out of your housefor fifteen weeks over the course of five

(52:10):
months. Like this, you willremember since August of twenty twenty, you've
been in your house. I believeless than six weeks. I think it's
actually less than five, but let'sjust go with like a little over five
weeks. We have been in twohotels, an airbnb, a family member's

(52:32):
house, two friends houses, andnow we're at a lake house. And
we've we've been out of the houseand we've practically worn the same clothes,
just rewashed because we have to washclothes, you know, as you know,
my wife has allergies. We haveto wash them really specific in our
washer and dryer, and and that'sjust how we've lived. Like you will
remember this, and it's not justthe pictures that we have that we remember,

(52:58):
is like we're creating memories here.We had birthday parties, we've had
holidays, we've had friends over,we've tried to keep life going. We've
homeschooled to do in these situations.I mean, it's just been incredible.
And the reason this is happening andthe reason it's been so incredible is because
you've been amazingly flexible. You know, parents, Dad's listening. We pat

(53:22):
ourselves on the back a lot forbeing flexible, you know, especially during
this whole COVID pandemic crisis. We'vewe've probably praised ourselves, Oh, I
was adaptable and I was flexible,and you know, we were able to
maneuver around this, and we feelreally good about our flexibility, but we
forget that it's our kids who alsohave to be flexible, and their brains

(53:43):
aren't even developed enough to know whatthey're doing. We know that we have
to be flexible, we know wehave to make choices, we know we
have to make these decisions. Butour kids, they're they're doing it almost
naturally, and we need to praisethem for their flexibility. When a day
doesn't go our way, we almostgive ourselves a moment to wine and complain
and say I gotta take a walkor you know, I'm gonna have a

(54:05):
quick drink. But when our kidsare having a bad day, man,
we drop the hammer. We're yellingat them, We're telling them how convenient
they are, We're telling this isnot how we behave. But they're just
having an off day, just likeyou. So we have to understand that
our kids don't get praised for beingflexible enough. When your kids adapt to
an uncertain time, when they whenthey flex to something that they didn't see

(54:27):
coming, when they are faced withchaos and are able to be flexible and
just go with the flow, youshould praise that. You should celebrate them
because they did something not fully developedmentally or emotionally to know what they did,

(54:49):
but they did something that you're readyfor. This Dad made your life
easier because they were flexible. Sopraise them, thank them, celebrate their
flex ability. And Parker, Man, I'm telling you, over the last
fifteen weeks, you have been absolutelyremarkable. You've been outstanding, You've been
flexible, you've been patient, you'vebeen kind, You've made tremendous strides.

(55:15):
But I am so thankful for howflexible you are. So Dad, let's
not forget the world takes us bysurprise a lot, but our world and
our kids worlds are exactly the same. So let's make sure we celebrate them
when they are flexible with the uncertainfuture so that we can have a fun
and present present. Parker man,find good friends, hold on to them,

(55:39):
love them, start a podcast andinterview them so you can hear their
story. But always remember, bekind, give to others, show respect,
love your mother, and never forgetyour dad is really proud of you.
Our Dad's Dires a Bramble Jam podcast, can be found ad free by
joining bramblejamplus dot com. Is hostedby Jonathan Parker, produced by Brennan Gray.

(56:02):
You can find us on social mediaby going to act Our Dad's Diary
and clicking that follow button. Seeyou next week.