To Wong Foo... & Tootsie: Unpacking Drag and Gender in Film

Join hosts Jaime, Nicole, Kelly, and newcomer Mina as they delve into the world of drag and gender in cinema. This episode explores two iconic films: To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar and Tootsie.

Jaime shares a fascinating encounter with a TERF (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist) in Florida, sparking a lively discussion on gender identity and societal norms. The conversation takes a deep dive into how these films portray drag culture and gender fluidity, examining both the comedic elements and the deeper messages.

With engaging "Would You Rather" questions and thought-provoking insights, this episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of film, drag, and gender. Tune in for a mix of humor, heartfelt moments, and eye-opening perspectives.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Music.

(00:11):
Good evening and welcome to
our poor friends tonight we
are joined by a couple of people that have this is the most we've done this
is the most we've ever done in quite a long time we had the one actually so
we have one reoccurring and then we have one brand new a new a podcast virgin Virgin for sure.

(00:36):
All right. Well, I am one of your hosts, Jamie. Joining me is always is Nicole.
Our reoccurring guest is Kelly. Kelly. And our newbie is Mina. Yay.
All right. So tonight we have a little bit of an interesting episode.
Your friend Jamie went to

(00:58):
Florida florida on a vacation while there
i met a woman who noticed my harry potter
tattoo and asked if i liked jk rowling to
which i said absolutely fucking not the woman's gone off the
rails she's batshit crazy this woman was okay but hold up because you've got
to explain that she works for the fucking hotel she works for the hotel it's

(01:19):
not just a mirando no she's a bartender at the hotel correct and she's working
it's not like she's on the clock yeah Yeah.
She, yes, 100% was representing the hotel. But also this is Florida. It is. It's true.
True. So maybe not. Okay. They're not real liberal with their policy.

(01:41):
That's true. Yeah. That's what I'm getting at. So here's my,
so to your point. Okay, wait, wait, wait. Okay, okay, okay. Wait, wait, wait. Yes.
For you podcast folks that cannot see me oh
yeah i am a colored woman okay
and i have never ever ever
seen anything harry potter what

(02:01):
i've heard of harry potter just not my thing not my thing so you have to explain
okay okay for those that might be listening okay they don't understand for our
yes okay three audience members there right i mean now we don't have a lot of
but But but our audience members are this will be the one.
I love that. I love that. Yeah. OK. So anyway, so J.K. Rowling is the person

(02:25):
that wrote Harry Potter and she got wildly rich off of Harry Potter.
OK. And she wrote it at the time with like pretty liberal ideals.
I mean, she she got into it with Trump over a bunch of things like the whole
when they freed one of the elf slaves.
She like was trying to be representative of freeing slaves.
And like like so she you kind of thought that

(02:47):
she she was pretty liberal in her belief system or at least like inclusive well
especially because the queer community 100 adopted harry potter yeah and that
whole yes i can see them yes theirs that's right come to find out she is a turf a turf a A TERF.
Okay. A TERF is a transgender exclusionary radical feminist.

(03:14):
A trans exclusionary radical feminist. That just sounds like a bitch.
She is someone who believes that the idea of gender fluidity is completely false.
False. And to feminism.
Correct. And in addition to that, that's exactly right. right,
that because people are talking about gender fluidity, it takes away rights from women.

(03:38):
Hmm yes yeah she believes people with uteruses are being
somehow persecuted by that's
right trans women because they're not women that's how
she they weren't they weren't born women right and she
doesn't view them as women because they don't have a uterus yes and she's
been really vocal about it and people have been really and this evidence is
did she say i mean does she no no no no no oh well they

(03:59):
have like magazines and things like that that are
they cherry pick pick certain stories and then manipulate them to
sound like it's like bad but no okay but
back to my story okay okay so she asked me if i like jk rowling's
i said no so she's like oh well i love her
and i was like oh i have never met one
of these in the wild i've never met a turf

(04:19):
in the wild so we get into a conversation now
keep in mind we she said i love her because i think her
writing is phenomenal i love her right yes
right yes and then she immediately brought up turfism and
keep in mind down as i as we
just discussed she was my bartender oh
jesus at least two glasses of wine in and like it it got it got heated at one

(04:46):
point she likened being transgender as mental illness i'm like and as a lesbian
woman i was like not that i she as she i'm like i had Yes,
I had a reminder like there wasn't a time too long ago that you were considered
mentally ill because she's a lesbian. Yeah.
Uh huh. She. Yeah. You can't see me, but I'm batting my eyes.

(05:10):
W.T. Yeah. Yes. So 100 percent.
And so she just we had an interesting like she talked.
So it seemed like maybe she had been had a really, really traumatic experience
in a female owned space, like a gym or a bathroom or something like that.
And because her biggest argument against it was like keeping transgender women

(05:34):
out of women's bathrooms. Like that was her big thing.
So I told her I was like, you know, at the Kansas City, our new airport, it's basically all one.
Like there's no and she's like, I would never go in there. And then she goes,
would you let your 13 year old go in there?
And I'm like, yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna let him pee his pants.
Like, what the fuck am I gonna do?
And I started a conversation about so she told us she told Mark and I,

(05:57):
so started a conversation.
I was like, yes, I've had conversations with my son about things that they could
experience and whatever.
And like, and that led to, we've had conversations about sexuality,
this, that and the other.
And she's like, you've had conversations with your son about sexuality.
And I was like, Like, absolutely.
He's 13. And she's like, that's almost child abuse in my eyes.

(06:17):
No, that shit started with Riley. Does she have a child? No. No.
No well then then no opinion podcast over
i mean for shit like yeah
so that was the thing like she was not she yeah it wasn't good and that's when
mark got pissed and i was like you know the group that preys on children the

(06:37):
worst are the priests so do you think we should just outlaw all the priests
there you go and she didn't have anything to say to that of course not of course
not so So it was an interesting,
but as soon as I got done, my drunk ass gets on my phone and immediately starts
texting these guys. You'll never believe what happened.
I met a fucking tarp in the wild. I can't believe it. Blah, blah, blah.

(06:58):
And so we decided to have this podcast. So tonight we're talking about two movies
that both involve men and genders.
The one of my all time favorites, Tootsie. I had to go back and watch Tootsie
and I was like, God fucking damn, I love this movie.
And to Wong Fu thanks for everything
Julie Newmar which I you know after

(07:18):
I watched that I was like oh we should have done Priscilla Queen of the Desert
I don't know what that is so that was a very similar type movie okay with the
guy that was in Memento do you remember that guy I do sitting here trying to
think of the name yeah I can't remember his name either but it's it's a better
movie okay yeah but I loved.

(07:39):
Patrick Swayze Wesley Snipes and John Leguizamo so much that I was like,
oh, God, I forgot how good this movie is, too. Anyway, we'll get there.
But first. Oh, yeah. Would you rather. Nicole has some would you rather for
us. I mean, they're not super great tonight, so.
Oh, God. It's fine. We're really like playing this podcast down. I know.
Maybe this is why we only have three people. Maybe it's not them. Maybe it's us.

(08:00):
This is going to suck. Please stay. Yeah, I just totally struggled.
Yeah, just try. Just try to keep on. Okay. Would you rather have the ability
to change the past or see into the future to alter it? So you can see into the
future and alter it or change the past so that maybe you don't need to see into the future to alter it.
Yeah. So either change the past or change the future.

(08:22):
I feel like if I were to change the past, I would just have to continuously
change the past. Continue to change things. Yeah, that's true. Till you got to today.
Right. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So I'd say. Whole butterfly effect.
Yeah. That's why that's true. I don't want to change anything about my life today.
So I don't think I'd go change the past, even though there are some things that

(08:43):
obviously I really want to have changed. Those were all learning experiences.
They mold us into who we are. That's right. Well, and...
None of it we might not be friends like i might not get married who's
to say you change would be a better change yeah
that's true yeah yeah well going both ways i
was gonna say now you're making me think yes i was i was going future but yeah

(09:05):
but but at least the idea is is we have control over what happens in the future
anyway that's true so at the end of the day like and you're not necessarily
shaping it already here and there that's right i mean to your point i can see
into to the future and be like, oh, that's bad.
And so maybe try and change something there. Right, alter course,
but not having lived it or seen the outcomes of whatever it is,

(09:26):
I would much rather do that than do something from the past.
Okay. So I'm with you. I'm going with the future.
All right. This is a fun question. Okay, see?
What the fuck are you talking about? I know, right? Okay. Would you rather be
a contestant on Miss America or on Drag Race?
Ah, Drag Race. For sure. Drag Race.
Absolutely. Okay. You say that? Both are catty. Yes.

(09:50):
Those bitches are mean. You didn't give me a third option. I know.
Fuck. But I think Miss America, because you guys know today's Miss Congeniality
Day, right? April 25th? Oh, no.
Oh, I didn't realize that. I did not have that top of mind. I know, but it was on Facebook.
I'm an old ass lady that looks through Facebook. That doesn't feel authentic.

(10:12):
Neither of them feel authentic. Well, okay. okay
my thing is miss america i'm thinking
like no i'd still want to do drag only because
i think i would i i think i would look good as
a drag queen but i don't know yeah no i i'm going drag okay or drag i just feel

(10:32):
like they'll be mean to your face like miss america they're mean behind your
back right which i don't give a fuck what anyone thinks i don't have time for
that still it's a safer space yeah i feel like it's still a safer space than
being in a miss america that's That's probably true.
That's probably true. Yeah. That's probably true. Can we actually guess like
Wheel of Fortune? I'd rather do Wheel of Fortune.
Or Price is Right. Or Price is Right. I would do 100%. Yeah, let's do that.

(10:54):
Okay. Would you rather live your life over again as the opposite gender or start
your life over again as your current gender at the age of 10?
No, I think I would like to live my life as the opposite gender.
Really? Fuck, I want to know what it's like to stand up to pee.
I'm dying to know what that feels like. I don't want to live my whole life as
a dude, though. They're fucking gross. They're gross.
But you could be a not gross dude. Yeah. I mean, I could be.

(11:17):
I mean, it's possible, right? I guess. Is it? Yeah. I know. I mean, they still are.
I'm a lesbian. I I'm making a heavy assumption. Yeah. I don't know.
You know, I think to a certain degree, men have it bad, you know,
to always be on the chase, always have to, you know, to stunt,

(11:37):
have the money, have the this, the that. I don't have time for that bullshit.
Yeah. Now, women, we have it bad, too. We have to look good. Yeah. Yeah.
But I'd rather do that than always have the pressure on me of what.
But you say that how much pressure do you have on yourself as a fucking woman?
Well, I am a woman at like, yeah. With man pressures.

(11:59):
You're a woman with woman pressures. Fuck this shit.
Yeah. That's what I'm saying is like women get a lot, have a lot more pressure.
I feel like to take care of things than men do.
There's a lot more emotional lift. Yeah. And I feel like while the world's becoming
more progressive towards women, um.

(12:19):
I feel like it's also becoming more progressive towards men because there are
men now that will cry openly.
There are men that will talk about their feelings.
They're like, like that is becoming, they don't view housework as a woman. A hundred percent.
You know, I'm not jumping in front of a bullet for any woman.
I'm not taking an ass whooping for a woman.

(12:41):
Really? Oh, I mean, I don't know. Maybe I'm fucked up. No, I would for a friend.
Yeah. For one of us. I'm not saying as a man
you exactly some dudes talking
shit or something and me as a
man to protect you I'm supposed to
now whoop his ass and maybe go to prison for the rest of my
life I'm talking about things like that now yeah if you're my

(13:03):
homegirl right shit okay yeah okay I'm in the middle
okay okay you want that man I guess so
I'll say this I think that there
is probably more because Chris is more
of a generation that is like you know
i gotta be there for my woman that that
might be some of that difference is my feeling yeah

(13:26):
because like he he feels like i have this responsibility is not taking no shit
yeah like no yeah well and i also don't want to take the chance that i got a
little package like i don't have time for that as a man if i got a little package then there's so
much more i gotta do let me tell you i am

(13:47):
i mean this is a make your own adventure you you'd
make yourself with the right well and how
about aren't your sons are your sons i'm sure my son well so that's unfortunately
i walked in on one measuring and he's definitely endowed yes the other one is
that's true you're fucking black you have nothing to worry about so if he's

(14:08):
not What am I worried about? I got a problem. What are you worried about?
You should just stop. You're embarrassing yourself at this point.
Yeah. Well, the question wasn't if you came back as a white man. That's true. Oh.
Okay. That's exactly right. You'll be fine. Well, and let me tell you that as
a female, I have the largest feet of all the females I know. I think I'd be a safe.

(14:30):
You would be safe. My feet are larger than Mark's.
You would be safe. You'd have a big stick.
I would. No problem. i got big dick energy today
it's true oh yes yeah so oh
yeah okay so definitely i'm gonna say i'd come back as a man fuck no you're
coming back as a man what thought that first just to try something different

(14:54):
but i really really love being a woman yeah i don't want to do it again yeah
i don't want to do it buddy yeah yeah oh all right neither i'm the only one yeah.
Willing to try it i'm a very handsome woman
so it's fine it's fine no i
definitely i want to experience what it's like to pee standing up that's the
whole reason i might want to do it for a day i don't want to do it okay well

(15:14):
just just stand up and pee if that's all it is just see what it's like to stand
everywhere those things for women i know i thought about buying one i want i
thought about buying one what they sell like a device like sleeping it cuts around
your area and then it's got a hole like when you're camping and yeah
face i thought about buying

(15:35):
one totally i i would yeah i mean i think you need to do that just so you can
experience it okay maybe but then you have to clean it because i'm a goddamn
woman when you're done yeah i can do that okay uh any other would you know that's
it we're good I'm shocked.
That's 20 minutes worth of would you rather. I know, but I love would you rathers.

(15:58):
And I love it when we don't all say the same thing. I feel like that's good.
Yeah, it was a healthy debate.
It was. Okay, we're going to start with Tu Wong Fu, only because Tootsie,
I think, more closely examines the idea of men dressing as women to get into
different women's roles and such.
So I want to start with Tu Wong Fu just because it's a little more fun,

(16:18):
a little more lighthearted.
Okay, so it came out in 1995. 1995 it was
1995 that was the year we graduated high
school indeed just kelly and i everyone else is younger and
older as 85 you were oh that's right you're 10
years older than me i forgot about that okay it starred
wesley snipes patrick swayze and john leguizamo and features stalker channing

(16:39):
blight danner chris penn and had cameos by naomi campbell rupaul robin williams
and the julie newmar which did anyone else not realize julie newmar was an actual
person i didn't i I had no idea. Until the end.
I didn't either. Did you know that? I don't know who the hell you're talking about.
Well, you know who Wesley Snipes, Patrick. Yes. Okay. Yes. I know.
Okay. Yeah. So Julie Newmar is the name of the title, right?

(17:03):
Bitch, I haven't seen this shit yet, so I don't know what you want from me.
I don't know. I don't know.
You should have added later.
That's right. I'm going to watch it though tonight. So the name of the movie
is To Wong Fu, Thanks for Everything, Love Julie Newmar.

(17:23):
And it's the reason it's called that is because they they go to a restaurant
when they decide to do this like road trip across America and they take a picture
off the wall and it's autographed and it's a picture of Julie Newmar and it's
autographed. That's what it says.
That's right. And then they take the picture with them on the road trip.
She's a good luck charm. That's right.
And so like it's a whole thing. But I didn't know Julie Newmar was an actual person. I had no idea.

(17:47):
So when I started researching this podcast, I was like, oh, there she is. Yeah. Okay.
All right. So she does show up.
So it's three New York City drag queens that go on a road trip carrying a photo
with the title written on it.
Okay. Writer Douglas Carter Bean was inspired by an anti-gay propaganda film
called The Gay Agenda, which I did not realize there is a film of The Gay Agenda.

(18:09):
Yes. They figured us out.
Instructional, apparently. Of that film, Bean said, there's a scene where they
show drag queens going through a town and the narrator is warning the viewers
that these people will take over your town. And I thought, well, that would be fun.
And that's literally what happens. Yeah. So the whole premise of the movie is
these three decide. So two of them went to a drag queen contest to go like do

(18:31):
a bigger drag queen contest.
And so they got flights to go to this contest.
So they befriend this little, they call her a drag princess because she's not
a drag queen yet. And that's John Leguizamo's character.
They befriend her and say, you know what? Instead, let's all three go and compete
in this big competition.

(18:52):
And so they sell their tickets to Robin Williams. and
they end up buying this what 58
oh god convertible cadillac and they decide
to drive that across the country while they're on their way
to the country from new york to hollywood from new york to hollywood literally
across the country exactly right while in middle america they do they break

(19:13):
down yes the car breaks down that's what i thought the car breaks down and so
they end up staying with this stalker channing's character who is getting beaten by her husband.
Well, the first they encounter a cop that ends up saying racial slurs and all sorts of shit.
Then tries to rape Patrick Swayze. Yeah, which I have a comment about that as well.

(19:33):
But then they... I'm sorry, all these are men dressed as women?
Yes. The three main characters.
Wesley Snipes, Patrick Swayze, and John Leguizamo. Because they're all drag queens.
And Patrick, somebody's after Patrick.
He tries to rape her. Yeah. On the side of the highway. On the side of the highway.
He pulls him over. Another reason why I wouldn't be a man. Anyway,

(19:54):
go ahead. So you didn't rape somebody?
So there's not a possibility that I got to be so desperate for ass that I got
to take it from somebody.
I could see that. I could see that. Okay. Anyway.
So anyway, so they end up in middle America. They're with this woman,
Carol Ann, who's stocker-tuning. She's getting beat by her husband.

(20:14):
So they decide that they need to help her. And then they decide they need to help the town.
And so they like take them to a vintage shop and they do makeovers and all this kind of fun stuff.
It's super cute. Yes. and there's like a
scene where Patrick Swayze goes to see his family and his family like
shuts the door on him and so Carol Ann ends up being kind of
like a mother figure to him and it's super sweet yes super cute

(20:36):
all right so anyway now you know what the movie's about got it okay when it
came to casting the leading men Wesley Snipes and John Leguizamo who had the
role of Chichi Rodriguez both immediately said yes but many actors were considered
for the role of Vita a bo-em including Robert Downey Jr., William Baldwin,
Gary Oldman, who Gary Oldman said he wasn't going to do it because he didn't

(20:58):
want to have to sit in makeup forever like he did in Browns, Jokers, Dracula.
So he ended up turning it down.
Matthew Broderick, which I don't think he would make a good looking drag queen.
James Spader, who I think would make a great looking drag queen.
John Cusack, Mel Gibson, Robert Sean Leonard, William Dafoe,

(21:18):
Matt Dillon, Rob Lowe, who I think would make them. Yeah. Yes.
Johnny Depp. Another one. Yeah. Tom Cruise and Robin Williams,
who ended up taking on a different role. Yeah.
All of those are interesting choices, but I think, so the way Patrick Swayze
got the job, I guess he was a ballet dancer when he was younger, right?

(21:39):
Then he pulled from his like bullying days when he was a ballet dancer to like
get into this role a little bit.
And I guess he went ahead and dressed in drag and went,
on a walk with the casting director and they saw
how like light on his feet he
was and how feminine he could look and that's

(22:01):
how he ended up getting the job interesting i know i thought that was good i don't
know yeah it says so the director's name is biban
kidron which i have never heard that name and i don't know that they've ever
gone on to direct anything else but biban i think is a woman because they had
a child anyway said it was ultimately swayze's walk that sealed the deal saying
Swayze had his own makeup people transform him into a woman and he insisted

(22:23):
that he and Beeman take a walk around the city to prove he could pass as a woman.
With his beauty and dancer's grace, he did just that and he had the job.
I'm like, oh, that's nice.
There was a scene that was going to involve the drag trio dining at a McDonald's,
but it was scrapped after the company told producers they didn't want to be
associated with drag queen culture.

(22:44):
I know. What? What?
Are you mad or i am mad
that you don't have to you don't have
to ban mcdonald's it's one of her favorites maybe they
have they grown up they probably have i mean in all fairness i do 1995 yeah
i would hope so yeah because i would i would agree yeah before filming the scene

(23:05):
in which sheriff dollard who played was played by chris penn pulls the car over
the roadside Patrick Swayze secretly placed a corncob down the front of his underwear.
So when Penn tries to force his hand up her skirt, that is his real reaction.
That's hilarious. Because he felt a goddamn corncob up there.

(23:26):
That's hilarious. I know, I think that's hilarious. That is funny.
According to John Leguizamo in his autobiography, his frequent improvisation
angered Patrick Swayze so much that Swayze tried to punch him in the face.
That doesn't surprise me because i think that kind of shit went on he
had issues with dirty dancing did he yeah
him and jennifer gray really yeah because he didn't think she

(23:47):
was serious enough oh well i thought
you know we just had a conversation about like throwing fists like
this is another example yeah why it surprises me that he
would that would be his i know yeah i can see him getting pissed off yeah
but wanting to punch him in the face yeah yeah yeah the actor spent some time
in new york city's drag scene to help get into their roles in fact one of the

(24:07):
drag queens that kind of helped him Alaska Thunderfuck nice said that what the
yeah said that what the film does best I bet he had a big package,
just saying well with a name like that you
better probably i would
guess back that up yes but alaska

(24:27):
says that what the film does best is show the camaraderie between the girls
the way they look out for each other protect one another the movie also illustrates
the transformative power of drag it helps people become empowered no matter
where they come from or what kind of life they lead and i i think that is what
i liked the best is the three of them coming together and then like
wanting to help each other and protect each other.

(24:49):
And I know that that's obviously important in the drag culture,
but I feel like as women, we're really good at that as well.
And so it almost like, I was like, Oh, maybe we should have done Thelma and
Louise. But then I'm like, no, no, I'm going off on a tangent here.
Anyway, I thought that was good. I know future show. That's exactly right.
Snydersville, which is where the crew ultimately broke down is actually the

(25:09):
tiny town of Loma, Nebraska, about 30 miles from Lincoln.
So we can all go there and visit it if we like. Mm hmm.
Oh yes the director is a woman so director
b-band kidron gave birth to her first child noah
kidron on the last night of filming i'm like
isn't that just like a woman fucking working all through
her pregnancy and waiting until that last night to have a fucking baby yeah

(25:31):
no kidding i know yeah that's what we do noah is
listed in the crew credits as best baby a word play
on the the crew term for best boy oh dwarves i
know i thought so too john leguizamo went
on a vegetarian diet for six months before shooting began in order to
lose the muscle mass so he would appear
more svelte and feminine interesting which is he is tiny yeah but you don't

(25:56):
really get that shit back too quick i know like you yeah yeah for real yeah
no and i think that's probably because Because Wesley Snipes and Patrick Swayze
are buff in the movie. Both are just buff.
I wouldn't have done it. I don't know. These people that go through these massive
physical transformations for roles. I get it.

(26:18):
Because Matthew McConaughey. Yes, that was crazy. Or Jared Leto.
Yes. And then what was the other one that we, not too long ago.
Not Memento. Who was that guy that lost?
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Christian Bale. Christian Bale.
He was in the that is crazy to me it is and they lose like 60 pounds in a month

(26:39):
or something nuts like that
can't be good for you drag queen Coco Peru was given a silver Tiffany and company
makeup compact which Swayze had sent her as a thank you providing insight for
his role in the film Swayze had given them all out as gifts to all the drag
queens he had gotten to know during the production,
not trying to punch them in the face I guess I know so,

(27:03):
The movie at the 53rd Golden Globe Awards, Swayze was nominated for Best Actor.
John Leguizamo was nominated for Best Supporting Actor, but neither of them won. I know.
And the four steps towards true queenliness, according to the movie.
God, grant the serenity to accept being a boy in a dress, the courage to change

(27:27):
with the fashions and the wisdom to the difference.
Ignorance, ignore adversity, generosity, and putting someone's needs elsewhere
for your own abide by the rules of love and larger than life is just the right
size, which I could get that tattooed on my fucking forehead.
Larger than life is just the right size.
Yeah. So that those are the fun little trivia that I have on to Wong Fu.

(27:48):
Thanks for everything, Julie Newmar.
I have been saying the name of that movie wrong for years, by the way,
I always just said to Wong Fu.
Most people do yeah it's too long but i thought
it was love julie newmar oh i feel
like that's got to be a misnomer right maybe i've been saying it wrong so the
difference is the width no it's too long food thanks for everything julie newmar

(28:09):
okay yeah yeah so all right good to know it's a lot to remember well yeah it's
too damn long to begin with yes yes yes yeah well and i.
Kept spelling what would the acronym be for that twf tfe
jn no no

(28:30):
okay all
right so thoughts about the movie i really enjoyed it
i did like the camaraderie between the actors and actresses
and i thought the campiness of it was a lot of fun there was
a lot of parts that i thought were hard to watch you know and
i don't know but and i felt
like the way that they handled the sheriff where

(28:53):
he was kind of so at one point he's ridiculed for
being beaten up by a girl and so.
Then he's out to find these guys and kick the
shit out of them and yeah that got heavy
yeah it didn't age well yeah there
were parts that did not age well for sure speaking of not aging
well one of the comments that that one

(29:15):
of the quotes in the movie is from Noxzema Jackson which
is Wesley Snipes character when a straight man puts on
a dress and gets the sexual kicks he is a transvestite when
a man is a woman trapped in a man's body and has a little operation
he is a transsexual okay transvestite and
transsexual are not used at all anymore and I know at least transsexual is pretty

(29:36):
a no-no right like you're not supposed to call people transsexual I haven't
the only single person I've ever heard referred to as a transvestite is Rocky
Horror yeah that's it other than that I don't think I've heard which Mina's making a face.
Have you ever seen Rocky Horror Picture Show? It's a white folks movie.
It is. It's a white folks movie. Thank you. For sure. I've got a poster up there. Thank you. Yeah, it is.

(30:00):
Yeah. No. I'm okay with that.
But yeah, and so like I, to your point, there are a couple of things that just
haven't aged well. So. And the F word's in it, right?
Doesn't Chris Penn use the F word at one point? Yep. Yes.
I have a question. Yeah. So without seeing the movie and realizing how long

(30:21):
ago that was, do you feel like, because it's a comedy, are we saying that drag queens are a joke?
Maybe some people look at it that way. I'm sure some people.
Are you poking fun at cross-dressing? or
are you just trying to make light of hey

(30:41):
we're all people whatever we want to
do and however we want to dress and act and it should
be fine yeah yeah so i think
it glorified like being yourself being
open being honest and so do you think that's how the skeptics
took it like those that i'm sure sure there's a
group of people especially in 1995 right yeah a

(31:04):
hundred percent that did not that thought it
was or they used it as a way to make fun
yeah drag queens yeah so i don't i don't know
if then it was if you did more harm than good i guess is the is the thing is
the question so to your point i do think because there's there was something
in here that talked about how like that kind of set the stage for more at least

(31:27):
mainstream acceptance because at the time like Like RuPaul was not doing drag race.
But shortly after that, I think like maybe five years later, she started drag race.
And so even though it might, if nothing else, it definitely in my mind brought drag queen. Yeah.
I'm just trying to think, when have I ever seen drag in a serious light?

(31:52):
Or, well, it seems like. So there are people who are cross dressers that are not drag queens.
Right, right, right, right. Right, and so like for... Well, I'm transgender.
Yeah. But it seems like every time you see that, it's in a comedy fashion. Does that make sense?
You know what I mean? I do know what you mean, but I'm trying to go back and
think, like, there probably are movies that I'm just not thinking about.

(32:15):
You said probably, and I'm trying, like, again, I'm trying to think, like, where are they?
You can rattle off dozens of comedies.
Right, and I also think it was a way to help straight white men start to be
more... Right, be more accepting. They were actors that they knew. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Pretending to be women, as straight, uncomfortable white men will say.

(32:38):
You know that kind of thing and and so yes
it was almost always through laughter rather
than absolutely oh yeah those men are going to go
home and take the makeup off yeah take the pantyhose off
well and they're going to be a man all over again so as a
as opposed to a true trans person or
yeah or cross-dresser you know what i mean yeah

(32:59):
so yeah well and to your point even
when you look at like all the people that they considered for these roles none of
them none are none i don't think they
didn't actually right yeah and that's
the bigger issue yeah exactly even going
back and looking at that is how often do we
let robin williams portray a gay person instead of hiring a gay

(33:19):
person to absolutely yeah like they must exist or
we wouldn't be doing this in the first place right yeah but
back that i mean we don't know these people could be all of these
men could be wearing women's panties at home we don't know well let's
come forward yeah what's one that we've
seen in the last 10 years oh that's about drag that's
a sit that's not comedic that's not

(33:42):
about comedy about transgender well
that's what that's what I'm saying like or I'd have
to google it let's google it I gotta google it she's
like I don't care what you're gonna say you can't think of one no I
I want you to think of I know I'm just
saying at some point we have to get there like.
We can't just keep making poking fun right are you or are you talking like specifically

(34:08):
comedy or just any so there's boys don't cry yeah so this came up with boys
don't cry there is tangerine which i never saw tangerine and the danish girl.
But I don't know. To your point, I don't think I've watched most of these.
So it begs the difference of is it not acceptable if it's not in a comedic light? Yeah.

(34:34):
I guess. You know what I'm saying? I think Boys Don't Cry won some awards,
right? Yeah. Well, and I forgot about The Crying Game.
Oh, God. I haven't seen that. But you remember how people fucking lost their
shit over The Crying Game?
Yeah. Because at the end of The Crying Game, it's revealed that Sean Young,
who played the lead character, was actually had a penis.

(34:57):
And the guy like flipped out.
Right? Isn't that right? I think so. Yeah. That's what I'm thinking.
And it was it was like traumatic for him. Yeah. So, yeah.
Yeah. I don't know. That's a good question, because to your point,
most of these are most of these are comedic or I've never heard of them before.
It's kind of like, and this is just off the top of my head, a comparison.

(35:22):
Like when back in the day, back in the day, minorities were the slaves on TV, the maids on TV.
And you know what I'm saying? We had to come forward quite a bit before we were leading characters.
Well yeah and your lives were absolutely absolutely

(35:45):
before we weren't taken as the joke yeah we're
not the butt and so i'm saying the same thing for trans
well are we there yet are we there yet i don't think
so at all well so we don't it to be perfectly honest i don't think that happened
until black people started directing movies like making their movies and then
you have to make your own way that's my thing somebody has to be the trail that's
right and so that's my thing is like i wonder if are we at the point now where

(36:09):
maybe we're just starting to make these
movies but now everything's so independent that it's hard to have like mass
theatrical releases of the the matrix.
Trinity the producers a director oh the russo brothers right twins right and
i think they're trans are they pretty at least one of them is oh to the point
where wachowski's there you go lily and lena wachowski well and to your point

(36:32):
i mean the things that she's made are you could consider,
she has very strong female characters that yeah interesting okay well you know
what hopefully we We are there.
Hopefully we're getting there closer all the time. We still have to start hiring
gay actors to play gay roles.
I love Stanley Tucci. I love Stanley Tucci.

(36:53):
I know. But he plays gay characters all the time. We have to quit.
It's like the blackface.
Why do you have to put on blackface when there's plenty of fucking black people to play the damn role?
Same damn thing. Yeah. Yeah. But that happens so often.
All the time. I know. It does. I mean. And it goes into Tootsie. That's right.
That's exactly right. Line of thought all falls into line for Tootsie,

(37:15):
too. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. But I agree.
Definitely there needs to be more representation. For sure. In Hollywood.
Okay. So any final thoughts about To Wong Fu? All right. I'm getting a bunch of head nods. Tootsie!
So Tootsie came out in 1982. Yeah. Much earlier than To Wong Fu. Yeah. I was very young.

(37:36):
But I remember this actually being a pretty, like, my parents liked this movie quite a bit.
Directed by sydney pollack stars dustin hoffman
jessica lang terry gar and dabney coleman and feature
terry gar's only oscar-nominated performance really
yes it's also the theatrical
debut of gina davis oh i didn't realize it was i didn't either okay do you know

(38:00):
who any of these people are fuck no listen this is from your time i would feel
like first you know who gina davis is First of all, I'm horrible with names.
Okay. I really am. So maybe.
Okay. She's in Thelma and Louise and the baseball movie. A League of Their Own.
Okay. Now I know who the fuck you're talking about. That's Geena Davis. Tell me a name.
Terry Garr was in, I don't know, some more white people movies you may not have

(38:22):
seen. Young Frankenstein.
Yeah. Have you seen Young Frankenstein? And Mr. Mom. Would I watch? Mr. Mom, yeah. Yeah.
No. There you go. Do you remember Mr. Mom? I remember. I do remember it.
I can't say that I watched it. No. Do you recognize her face? I do.

(38:43):
Okay. Now look up Dustin Hoffman.
I know Dustin. I don't know if you know. I know. I saw Tootsie.
Yeah. I've seen Tootsie.
All right, so the only person that I heard about that was up for a role other

(39:03):
than who got it was Cher was up for the role of Julie Nichols.
Oh, you didn't even name your favorite actor who was in Tootsie.
Well, Bill Murray. Yeah, thank you.
Yes. I know. I didn't because he didn't star.
And the funny thing is, is he actually agreed not to be top billed because they didn't want,

(39:25):
he didn't, yeah, the producers and everyone didn't want people to
think it was another Bill Murray movie because he had done Caddyshack
and some of those funny things and so they're like we don't want it to
be another Bill Murray so yeah they he agreed not to take but you're right Bill
Murray's in the film and I absolutely I mean goddamn national treasure and what's

(39:45):
interesting about Bill Murray in this movie of course you know he plays a slacker
friend that Dustin Hoffman's trying to raise money so that he can and put on his play.
But I feel like he, it's one of the few roles that I feel like Bill Murray played
something close to himself.
You know what I mean? Oh, interesting. Okay, yeah. Only because like the way
that he, it wasn't like, It's very low key. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

(40:06):
It grossed $241 million becoming the her third highest grossing film and was
nominated for 10 awards at the Academy Awards, including Best Picture and Best
Supporting Actress for Terry Garr.
I was shocked. 10 fucking awards. Did they win any? Yeah, I was going to say,
how many did they win? I don't know.
I'll look it up. I don't know.

(40:27):
Ah, let's see. Let me say here. Hold your horses. Just one second.
Reception accolades. They won. So Jessica Lange won for Best Supporting Actress over Terry Garr.
Okay. And then Jessica Lange won the Bambi Award.
I don't know. This is not the Academy Awards. The only Academy Award it won

(40:51):
was the Best Supporting Actress.
It's a clean award. It does. It really does.
It actually does. so all of the maybe you
shouldn't that's not a work phone right don't google on there so here's
all their academy award nominations best picture best director best actor
for dustin hoffman best supporting actress for both terry guard and jessica
lang best screenplay best cinematography best film

(41:13):
editing best original song and best sound so is that what they won or what they
were nominated that's what they were nominated for they only jessica lang won
for best supporting actress which I have to say I feel like this is one of her
best roles by far I I was reading an interview with her about this particular
role and she's like the funny thing is is I don't remember,
doing really well at the role she said

(41:35):
I think Sidney Pollack is so good at
editing that he made my performance
that much better wow isn't that crazy that is
crazy I know okay did you find out with the bambi
it's a german award oh of course it is of
course it is uh but i will say so they won best actor best supporting actress

(41:56):
of the boston society film critics award they won best actor and best makeup
artist for the british academy film award like do you guys want to know all
this golden globes they won best most in motion picture best actor and best supporting actress.
There was a Kansas City Film Critics Circle Awards. Oh, interesting.

(42:17):
Did you guys know anything about this?
Jessica Ling won for Best Supporting Actress at the Kansas City Film Critics
Circle Awards. I gotta find out if they still do that.
Okay, I love that. I love that journey for us. We should go.
All right, anyway. Wait, Kansas City what? Circle something?
Circle jerks on the film?

(42:39):
Kansas City Film Critics Circle Awards.
Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, it's still a thing. Is it? Can we go?
Can we belong? It was on Riley's birthday. It was January 30th.
Can we belong? Can we, like, submit?
I don't know. You're going to submit a film? Because Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer
was in seven categories and received six awards at the 58th annual.

(43:01):
58? Oh, hold on. James somebody I
can't pronounce awards voted on by the 26 members of the Kansas City Film Critics
Circle that I want to become a member how do I become a member oh god I don't
know hold okay we don't have time for all that come on now we'll figure that
out we'll figure it out okay all right shut up they're the second oldest professional
film critic organization in the United States we should belong,

(43:23):
we should belong we should invite one of them to come on the podcast.
You totally should. Right? Yes. Okay. Stop. That's a start. You stop.
Okay. Okay. You're going to go down a hole.
I am. All right. So I told you that it, yeah, the basic idea for anyone that
hasn't watched it, and by the way, it's since 1982, so I'm not saying spoiler,
but the basic idea is that Dustin Hoffman can't get any acting jobs,

(43:46):
so he dresses up as a woman, auditions for a role on a soap opera,
which I kind of forgot about soap operas until I went back and read those.
Oh, God. Right? They're still around. Did you know? Yeah, I know.
Are you kidding? Yeah. And the ones we used to watch are still young in the days of.
Yeah. Yeah. Sleep. Yeah. Bold and beautiful. Yes, that's right.
Yeah. But funny enough, he doesn't like the way his character is treated as a woman.

(44:08):
And so he often changes what she says and does to fight the man.
Speaking of him kind of, you know, talking about how he was when he was a man.
So the crew would only give bad news to Dustin, Dustin Hoffman.
When he was in drag, They said he was much nicer as a woman.
Dustin Hoffman claimed that after playing Tootsie for the first time,

(44:30):
he went home and burst into tears and confessed to his wife that playing a woman
forced him to confront his own sexist perceptions of women that he never realized
he had like, that's right, bitch.
We got it rough. That's why I'd rather be a man.
In an interview for the American film Institute, Dustin Hoffman said that he
was shocked that although he could be made to appear as a credible woman,

(44:50):
he would never be a beautiful one, which that's true.
He was not pretty no in fact i remember watching the
film and thinking he looked 10 years older as a woman than he does oh yeah
yeah for sure he said
that he had an epiphany when he realized that although he found this woman interesting
he would not have spoken to her at a party meaning his drag character because

(45:11):
she was not beautiful and that as a result he had missed out on many conversations
with interesting women he concluded that he never regarded the film as a comedy
because of this revelation.
I'm like, that's interesting, but also like good for him that at least we have
some self-realization that he's an asshole. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So anyway, I thought that was interesting.

(45:31):
Dustin Hoffman mentored Gina Davis because she was brand new. First role.
One piece of advice he gave her was, I know you're going to move to Hollywood
and be successful, and your co-stars are going to hit on you.
And you should not sleep with your co-stars because it's a bad idea.
So here's what to say. When they hit on you, say, I would love to. Be very flattering.

(45:52):
But I'm afraid it would ruin the on-screen sexual tension between us.
Davis said that later on she used this tactic when Jack Nicholson hit on her.
Oh that fucker hit on everybody and nicholson's response was
oh my god where'd you get that what a
line i love that
i thought that was hilarious filming could

(46:14):
only be filmed for about three to four hours every day because dustin hoffman's
five o'clock shadow would come on so it would take him two
hours to get him into all of the makeup and all of that and
then they could only film for about three or four years yes i
thought that was crazy dustin hoffman wasn't originally
going to use the southern accent but he said that he could portray his
feminine voice yeah better which i could

(46:35):
see that i can see that yeah all right this i found funny so at a party when
michael as himself approaches julie with a pickup line to which she had previously
told him that she would be receptive to she throws a drink in his face i think
this is probably so accurate yeah i bet i I have done this.
I have probably told a woman, oh yeah, if a man just said this thing to me,

(46:59):
like, you know how Michael says all the time, nice shoes want to fuck and that's all it would take.
I think he would throw a drink in the face of someone that would say that to
him. That actually said it to him?
Do you? Not Michael. But if it was me. Michael. Yeah, probably not Michael.
But if it was me, for sure. Yes, you would. Yes, I think so too.
So I thought that was really, that was probably one of my favorite parts of
this movie, that movie was when she does that. Yeah.

(47:20):
The film is recognized by the American Film Institute in these three lists.
This is weird. Why are there so many lists?
The American Film Institute makes a lot of lists. Have you guys noticed this?
What else are they going to do? I guess.
So in 1998, they did AFA's 100 Years of 100 Movies, and it was number 62.
In 2000, they did 100 Years of 100 Laughs, and it was number two. Wow.

(47:45):
Which I was surprised because I never watched Tootsie and just laughed and laughed and laughed.
No, I don't know if I... that part I
like yeah and there were a couple Bill Murray things that
I thought were funny I don't I didn't like but to
double over and yeah no exactly exactly and then AFI did in 2007 100 years of
100 movies the 10th anniversary edition and it dropped to 69 from 62 yeah it

(48:11):
was inducted in the National Film Registry in 1998 what,
Yeah, so it's had some accolades. In 2011, ABC aired a primetime special called
The Best in Film, the greatest movies of our time that counted down the best
movies chosen by fans based on a poll.
And it was selected as number five best comedy, which a keen... Really? Yes.

(48:34):
As a comedy. Yes, I know.
Dustin Hoffman suggested the title Tootsie as Tootsie was the name of his mother's dog.
And in the opening scene, when she's getting ready, that's a picture of his
mom sitting on the table.
Oh, it is? So I guess she was really sick at the time. And I don't know what she was sick with.
But she was like on her deathbed, right? And so he modeled a lot of Tootsie after her.

(49:00):
I guess this movie was embroiled in a lot of debate over who the real writers were.
Because there was somebody who basically had this idea of a man dressing as a woman to get this role.
And like that was the heart of the idea but then there
was another writer that did a lot about like wrote
a whole play around it with with the original idea and

(49:22):
then there was another writer who had to come in and clean up all the screenplay enough
that it like delayed production of the movie and then
there was dustin hoffman who basically talked like he you
know modeled the entire character and so
there was like this huge debate about the um writers so
much so that it delayed production of the film being

(49:43):
released because they you know you have to give writer credits yeah and
like some of the writers were like no that bitch didn't do fucking anything
like it was crazy oh god yeah dustin hoffman
and sydney pollock feuded so intently intensely over small things that hoffman
ended up suggesting that pollock play as agents so they could get that into
the film and perhaps give pollock a chance to vent to him about how horrible

(50:03):
he was what an asshole he was what an asshole he was yes which is why he couldn't
get jobs exactly and producers
hired Holly Woodlawn, a well-known transgender Puerto Rican actress and Andy
Warhol superstar to coach Dustin
Hoffman on the art of being a man who feels like and acts as a woman.
Cameos included Andy Warhol as himself. That's what I was going to say. Which I didn't know.

(50:24):
What do you mean? I knew he looked like Andy Warhol, but I didn't think it was me.
I thought it was like fake.
And Gene Shalit was in it. The famous, you know, film critic.
Oh, yeah, he's a film critic.
All right. Anyway, so Tootsie, I really enjoyed this film because I enjoyed

(50:46):
the idea of him realizing what a shithead men can be.
And what an asshole he is. And what an asshole he is. And he worked to change that.
But what killed me was the idea that like, oh, so he's going to come in and fix everything.

(51:07):
Right. And become like the savior. Because these women didn't know how to stand
up for themselves until this man dressed up as a woman and came in and showed
him how to save themselves. Yeah.
That's exactly correct. It's just I don't love that. But yeah,
I remember watching, you know, when they like put on the wig and put on all the like spandex.
And I was like, you know, at the time, I'm like, God, that seems like a lot.

(51:27):
And that's the fucking same shit I do today.
I don't put on a wig, but, you know, like doing your hair. Absolutely. Doing your makeup.
Yeah. Putting on. Well, putting on spandex like some of us are fatter than others.
But those of us that are fat put it on spit like yeah I was getting ready for
this goddamn wedding last weekend and I'm like Jesus I have so many layers of
clothing on yes and it's hot.

(51:49):
I'm like it takes a long this is my number one reason for not enjoying going
into the office is just getting ready every single day well what did I say earlier
today like it's been so long since I had to put on a bra two days in a row.
I feel like I'm in a fucking straight jacket right now Like right now it's un-snapped in the back.

(52:11):
It's just floating up here as I'm dying to take it off. Yeah.
It's just floating around. Yeah. I feel that. It is crazy.
I know. I know. I really, I definitely embrace the remote culture.
Oh yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And only because, and the amount of,
this is where men don't have to worry about it, right? They take a shower.
They may or may not have to dry their hair and they're done. Right.

(52:32):
But for us, getting ready for work. It's a whole fucking thing.
And like men it's put on khakis and a
polo and you can have the door that's right you can
have like whether they match or not right well and
you can buy a uniform that is perfectly fine yeah khaki pants and navy white

(52:53):
black gray like yeah and you always look fine and a pair of loafers that are
always comfortable right you're toting around in six inch heels yesterday i
start to put I'm like, fuck this shit.
But I'm just like, this is the advantage of being the man. Yes.
Because and just the amount of time it wastes for me to have to get in all that
garb every day is just beyond.

(53:14):
But we have to admit, there are times when we enjoy it.
Getting doing all of that sure looking fly and
well i feel like that's when it's our choice well but
so does but mark list last weekend got a suit
got a tie everyone was complimenting him
on his tie he felt good yeah oh yes he

(53:35):
was he felt good yeah so that's my thing
now this is more of the turf concern
of a man dressing up as
a woman to get into women's spaces and we even saw
power shower them well we even saw that's right
we even saw him in the dressing room with
gina davis when she's in bras and panties right yeah and like

(53:55):
that's that oh my god he was sleeping in the same bed with jessica lang's
character when they went home to the farm like yeah that's right okay well the
stupid part of that is if he took all the shit off and he was a man it wouldn't
be any big deal of him sleeping in the bed with her well right no but it says
she didn't know he was a man she didn't know so a turf is that's that that's
the whole thing with the turf is like Like, they're out to get us. Yeah.

(54:17):
They're tricking us into thinking they're women so that they can get us. That's right.
Well, we don't normally go to bed with other women.
No. Right. No, but. Some of us do.
That was such a great one. That was a great one. That was good.
Yes. That was. That was so good. That was a great one.
But, yeah, I mean, trans, they don't transition so they can be with who they

(54:41):
could have been with in the first place. They're not fucking predators.
Exactly. That's what pisses me off.
It's like you're missing the whole fucking point. Well, my thing is,
there are predators out there that I believe probably would do some fucking weird.
It doesn't matter what you believe. That's right. Absolutely. That's exactly right.

(55:02):
And that's my thing is that in 1982, this was such a farcical idea that the
guy that played this character got nominated as a Best Fucking Actor Award. at the Academy Awards.
This was a movie that was so unbelievably crazy that it was a comedy.

(55:22):
So for us to now know this is the reality that we all need to fear, it's like, really?
Really? I call that ignorant.
Yes. It's just downright ignorant. Yes. It just seems crazy to me.
Yeah. It just seems crazy to me. So...
This particular turf, most of the time was lovely. We did have a wonderful time with her.

(55:46):
I just really hope that at some point she sees the light that.
You're a better person than I am that you even spoke to her ever again. I didn't.
We left the bar and then she wasn't there the next day. Oh, okay.
The next bartender was there and he's like, oh, you must have met the bartender.
Because I was like, hey, he's like, how's your stay been?
And I was like, well, it was good. but I said I had an interesting run-in with

(56:09):
the bartender last night.
He's like oh yeah, she's a big turf. I'm like she is. Oh my god.
She's a big turf. He's like yeah.
He's like did she talk to you about it? I said well she saw my tattoo and asked
me. Okay, what did this bitch look like?
Exactly probably what you would expect. There you go.
She's mad. Yeah. She's mad. Maybe she watched Tootsie when she was little. Exactly.

(56:30):
She's mad that there are men that could look better than her.
Or jk rawlings did
and now she started a thing yeah i'm just
saying like it just that doesn't happen at least
and and i was we were talking about this earlier where i
you know i asked like i've never heard of an actual predator dressing up as

(56:53):
a woman getting into female spaces and attacking and attacking them there oh
it's happened and she pulls up this website of Of course she can't find that.
Foxnews.com. Thank you.
Yes. Fucking thank you. It was even worse. It was like turfnews.com.
And she starts. Okay. But again, are these, are they going after gay women?
Or I'm totally confused. Maybe I'm missing.

(57:16):
So she believes transgender people are mentally ill.
That there's no such thing as a person born as a woman who believes that they are a man.
And how do you know? know that how does she know
so that's what i told her i said i don't know what i feel
like in my body that's right you don't know what i feel like

(57:37):
with brown skin versus white that's right right i
don't know what a lesbian experience feels like absolutely we
don't know what a man feels like that's right i don't know what
any of your experiences are a thousand percent
i you and i have grown up forever and
i cannot say yep i know exactly what
kelly's experience has been like here's here's my bottom line I have always

(58:02):
said you are with you 24 7 yes you came in this world by yourself you are leaving
out the same way however you choose to live your life and be I don't give a fuck if you want.
Shit smeared on your face as long as you're not
near me and i have to smell it we're cool right

(58:24):
like you should be able to live your life how sad is i i said this to jamie
earlier jenner is the perfect example yeah how sad is it that this dude lived
to be what age yeah 50 like in torture Torture?
Correct. Because he didn't feel like a man. He could be who he was.

(58:45):
And he did everything he could possibly do to be a man.
Yep. And then he transgendered. And then he transitioned. Then he transitioned.
And. Has flourished. Or it seems like he's flourished. He's going to die happy,
I bet. Yeah. Right. I bet he's going to die.
And I'm happier than he was. A thousand percent.
And how shame on the world for trying to.

(59:10):
Oh, fuck. the fucking rules in the first place i'm about
to get i'm about to get a wireless mic
and start walking yes who makes
up these rules to tell us you know who makes them up that's exactly right fucking
cisgendered white men yes that yes they made all these rules okay well why do

(59:30):
they have to be followed because they started making these rules say that god
told them so that's right all All of these rules,
they say God told them so. That's right. No, no, no.
No, no, no. And I'm sorry. Those people, they struggle with some other shit.
If you don't struggle with this, you struggle with that.
I mean, you're tapping your butt in bathroom stalls.

(59:52):
We're the ones that get fucking caught. We know priest fuck little boys.
That's right. Absolutely. Not all. We didn't even listen to her.
Absolutely. Not all priest fuck little boys. No. Showtime. No.
It just, yeah. I can't. Yeah. I can't. Yes. It's sad.
It is sad. So there was a comment. I saw a meme that was something like,

(01:00:13):
you know, so many men professing to hate gay people end up getting caught being gay.
I'm wondering if I'm going to turn into a giant spider. Yeah.
Oh my god because like that
to your point like people struggle we know
people struggle i get it to your point they don't understand it and you not

(01:00:33):
understand either that or they understand it all too well and are fighting against
it so much absolutely they have to project that hatred outside of themselves
true story because what they hate is femininity yes sometimes i mean Because a lot of times it's.
Very exuberant gay men that they're so offended by because they hate the femininity.

(01:00:56):
I know. We need to just love the choice to choose.
And leave it at that. And let people live their lives.
Exactly. You don't have to fuck with me. But just let me be who I am.
I gotta say, your example of smearing poop on my face.
That was not sure that I'm like, I mean, you know, my point. I got you.

(01:01:24):
If I choose it right now, we're sitting at the table. Yeah.
You have on the clothes that you chose to put on and the way you wear your hair. I do.
Makeup you put on your face and the your boobies are all flappy. Yeah. Exactly.
I don't need swingers. Yeah. But, you know, I'm sitting here with a bra up to

(01:01:44):
my neck. Yeah. Not a problem.
But that's just me.
I know. I hear you. Who's going to care? Here's the thing.
Who's going to know when I'm dead and gone? Who's going to care that my bra was sitting on my neck?
Well, now, this podcast is going to solidify that.

(01:02:06):
That's right. For the rest of your life. So now everyone will care.
As long as they don't see it. True.
As long as they don't see it. Yeah. But they'll care and they'll support you.
You don't need a bra. There will be plenty of women that will support and know
what I mean to have a bra sitting on top of.

(01:02:26):
That's right. You don't need a bra. You've got all the support you need.
That's a good one. Right? That's a good one. I try.
I try. Okay, I try. All right. Well, I'm glad we ended on such a female empowering moment.
That's right. I love that about us as a group.
Any other thoughts about these two great movies or the turf moral of the story

(01:02:48):
is just be you boo yeah that's right just be you and what was it what did they
say living out loud is just the right size yes living out large is just the right size uh,
I'd have to look it up, but I don't like it. Being large? No.
All right. Well, that. What if that is it?
That's right. Listen to the beginning. Hopefully we wrote that down. There you go.

(01:03:08):
All right. Well, thank you so much. If you have hung on this long and listened
to these women, we appreciate you so much.
What? You're looking at the time. I'm just checking out the time. I know.
I have enjoyed this conversation. I do feel like it was a good opportunity to
go back and watch the movies that I absolutely loved.
Yep. And it's been a good conversation just solidifying that,

(01:03:30):
yes, there are people in this world that do not think that transgender people
are mentally ill. So I appreciate that, you guys.
I really do. All right. So, yes, hopefully you enjoyed this podcast.
But feel free to leave us comments if you would like on our Facebook page, which is?
Our poor friends. Podcast Insiders. There we go. Yeah. I might have to just name that.

(01:03:52):
I know. That is seriously. For real. Also, we are releasing. thing.
We recorded these a while ago, but I haven't had a chance to get them all edited and released yet.
But we are releasing some pop culture with me, Kelly and Nicole coming up soon.
So you can look for those episodes.
We also have an Instagram page that I never post on. So you'd have to go back

(01:04:12):
and find a really old picture, but you can put comments out there.
And last, Mina and I are starting a podcast soon. So more info to come there.
We will see how that goes.
That's right and that is going to be a video podcast so you might get a chance
to see up to her neck oh lord indeed free swing that's right I might wear it
as a necklace hey I love that I might first yes let's do this.

(01:04:38):
That's right that's right you can wear it as a bonnet that's right I love that
white people will do that no I'm gonna wear it they did it in a movie put it on the head,
white people I was going to say we have never ever produce some stupid shit
like that. Weird science.
Bill Pullman. There you go. Kelly LeBron.

(01:04:59):
We'll have to do that one next. Alright, thank you guys for listening.
I hope you have a lovely evening and again, thank you so much. Deuces. Bye.