March 31, 2021 • 38 mins
King's Cross.
Harry finds himself in a place that is totally unexpected when he wakes up from Voldemort's killing curse.
In this episode of Owl Post: A Harry Potter Podcast hosts Andrea Coffman and Matthew Rushing talk about the thirty-fifth chapter of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. We discuss waking up, Dumbledore is here, Harry's blood, the wand, an old man's failings, the Hallows, Grindelwald, being worthy and choosing to return.
Hosts
Andrea Coffman and Matthew Rushing
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thenerdparty
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Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
Harry finds himself in a place that is totally unexpected when he wakes up from Voldemort's killing curse.
In this episode of Owl Post: A Harry Potter Podcast hosts Andrea Coffman and Matthew Rushing talk about the thirty-fifth chapter of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. We discuss waking up, Dumbledore is here, Harry's blood, the wand, an old man's failings, the Hallows, Grindelwald, being worthy and choosing to return.
Hosts
Andrea Coffman and Matthew Rushing
Send us your feedback!
Twitter: @JoinNerdParty
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thenerdparty
Email: http://www.thenerdparty.com/contact
Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the Nede Paul team.Ah Miles Head. Your oltpost for the
(00:25):
week is freshly delivered, and Iam just one of the hosts here Matthew
rushing and with me as she isevery single week. Draycoffman, Hello,
Hey, hey, hey, hey, how are you good. I'm sad
that we're what two chapters from theend. I know, I know,
(00:49):
it's so crazy. It's so crazythat we just don't have much left,
and but it's so exciting to finallyget to a few chapters where all the
stuff comes to the end, likeall the answers come. So that part
is fun. Yeah, no,this is it's good from a material standpoint.
(01:10):
It's sad from it's at the endstandpoint. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
and I did want to say aquick thank you to um. We
got some some emails Drea from Syria, um that was that's her name,
and we also got email there fromAnna, and we got an email from
(01:30):
Lucia, and so we just wantedto say thank you to all of them
for their emails, really appreciate themsending those in and some of the stuff
they had in the emails there wasa little more personal, so didn't want
to read them on the air,but really appreciate you guys sending your emails
at me so much, so gladthat you're listening. And you know,
(01:52):
one refrain we've heard, Drea isthat that so many people have enjoyed listening
to us over the crazy you know, twenty twenty year And yeah, we're
just excited that we were there foranyone. And yeah, we've got a
few more episodes left for you,which, man, I can't believe it.
After this there are only three left. Oh my goodness. I think
(02:16):
when we do our last episode willbe interesting because I will be fully vaccinated
after a nice so I'm not surehow that lined up, but it lined
up real nicely. There you go, There you go, so well.
Before we get into the episodes,of course, just a quick reminder you
(02:38):
can find us wherever you get yourpodcasts. If you're on Apple Podcasts,
you can still give us a reviewand we'll read those last reviews that come
as we wrap up the show.We really appreciate everybody who's done that.
You know, this has been ahuge show, you know, honestly,
it's the biggest show that I dopodcasting wise, with the numbers that we
(03:00):
yet it's insane, Like people seemto love this show, Drea, and
they seem to love you and sometimesme, so I'm sure they loved you
to stop it. So it's it'sbeen great though, And of course you
could find us on Twitter at jointNerdparty on Facebook and Facebook dot com,
slash the Nerdparty, the Nerdparty dotcom, and of course you can send
us an email over at the Nerdpartydot com slash contact. So we are
(03:24):
at King's Cross and um, well, Drea, Harry wakes up naked.
I think I completely forgot he wokeup naked and they caught me up garden.
I was like, what we gothis whole this whole chapter with him
naked, which I mean spoiler alert, we don't. Um, but yeah,
(03:46):
he kind of like wakes up inthis like misty, not cloudy,
not misty, but like very etherealspace and he doesn't he kind of remembers
what happened last but doesn't really knowwhere he is. Is he dead?
Is he alive? What is thatnoise? And he's just like everything is
(04:09):
so bright. Yeah, I do. I do love that. You know,
for a few minutes he's not likeweirded out. Then he's naked,
and then he's like, you knowwhat, any clothes and like immediately the
robes appear that he can put on, and I like that they're warm,
though I won't imagine if I couldjust make those appear, they would be
warm and cozy like that like whenyou, you know, get your clothes
(04:31):
fresh out of the dryer, youknow, yes, yes, yes,
so And he realizes this noise isthis like ugly deformed, nasty looking naked
baby, and it's like struggling tobreathe, and before he can kind of
like figure it out, Yes,who's here, Dumbledore? Oh man,
(05:00):
oh man. You know, Ithink it's really interesting before we even dive
into what they talk about. Ithink one of the things that is fascinating
about this is that, you know, a lot of my love for Dumbledore
actually comes from this last chapter thathe's in, you know, which you
you know, people and Hermione eventalked about in this book about how Dumbledore
(05:25):
loved Harry, and this chapter reallylegitimizes exactly what Hermione said earlier in the
book. And you know, Ijust love the way that he, you
know, he comes up to Harry'slike you wonderful, you brave, brave
man. Let's walk and they're goingto walk, and they're going to talk
(05:46):
in this place, and they aregoing to answer a ton of questions about
a lot of the things that westill have questions about, which is a
lot of fun that we are finallygoing to get those answers. We also
so get a very human Dumbledore here, right. I think most of the
books we've we as kind of parallelto Harry, have put him on a
(06:09):
pedestal, right, Like we've talkeda little bit about that, like he
thought, and he still sort ofexpresses in this chapter at that Dumbledore is
this great, all powerful wizard.And here we have Dumbledore basically saying,
no, I'm really really not.I had to kind of self regulate all
of this because I made a lotof mistakes and I didn't trust myself,
you know, and I was genuinelynot as good a person as you are.
(06:32):
Right, He straight up says thatat some point, like I am
not as selfless. I am notas selfless of a person as you are,
Harry. You know. So weget a very human Dumbledore, which
I think is nice. I thinkwe all as people should understand that those
we look up to, our mentors, our parents, or teachers, whoever
(06:55):
you want to throw into that category, they're all human, right, And
while the point in which you meetthem in your life they may seem like
these perfect, amazing beings doesn't meanthat they are. Right. It's that
moment we all wake up and realizeour parents are not gods. Yeah,
they're not perfect, they're not amazing, right. This is that moment we
get with Dumbledore. And I thinkso Harry still kind of struggles with that
(07:18):
a little bit wants him to havemore confidence in faith in himself than he
does. There's some really beautiful,beautiful moments in here, but this,
I think I agree with you.I love that we get Dumbledore in his
full flawed human god's good instincts gloryhere in this chapter, and he's everything
(07:39):
we've ever needed. Yeah, yeah, I know, I couldn't have said
it better. I think that's oneof the things that really makes this chapter
great. And again I think,you know, retroactively, it's the thing
that makes this chapter for me lovehim so much, which is you can
then retroact fully understand as you rereadthe series, all of the humanity of
(08:03):
Dumbledore and really what a struggle thiswhole thing has been for him as well.
And so you know, they havethe conversation about whether or not Harry's
dead, and Dumbledore says, no, I don't think you're dead, and
they kind of talk about this placethat they're in and Harry's like, it
(08:24):
really kind of looks like King's Cross, except a lot cleaner. And then
we jump into this whole conversation andthe fact that Harry let Voldemort kill him
without trying to not die. Andwhat's dying right now is the part of
Voldemort's soul that was left in Harry, not Harry. And I think this
(08:50):
whole thing about this discussion about goingall the way back to the fourth book
of where you know Voldemort head insistedthat he take Harry's blood and so because
of that he now carries a pieceof Lily's sacrifice and himself. That's what's
(09:11):
keeping Harry alive as now this connectionthey have, which is doubly connected,
and so I I just I lovethis because it's the very last place in
which Voldemore cannot understand the deeper magic, right, he cannot understand how dangerous
(09:33):
Lily sacrifice actually was to him becausehe just doesn't get it, you know,
he never got it. And Ithink that's the thing that makes this
so interesting to me, because wereally see how sad Voldemore really is as
(09:54):
a person, like, you know, like he just there's so much he
just I doesn't get. Yeah,I mean not even comes within we get
and and regressing up around here alittle bit because there's just so much that
happens in this chapter. But evenwhen we start talking about the fact that,
you know, Dumbledore says one ofhis greatest flaws he was trying to
(10:16):
become a master of death, butnot the way that Valdemore is a master
of death. Right, Baltimore isa master of death, and that he
facilitates it and is avoiding it.Dumbledore was trying to do it in a
less aggressive way, right. Hewanted to avoid death, not conquer it
per se. Right, Like it'sa little bit different. I think Harry
(10:39):
says, like, yes, butyou didn't kill people to avoid death,
right, you just did what youcould. And when we kind of looked
at Baltimore and I think there wasa question of why did Valdimore go after
the hollows as well as you know, he was like, no, all
he wanted first of all, allhe wanted is the wand right, because
that's how you do. And thathe wouldn't want the Resurrection Stone because he
(11:07):
fears those people who have loved beforehim, not There's no one he loved.
There was no one he would wantto have a connection with from the
other side, And that alone,I think speaks volumes the fact that there's
not a single person who died thathe would want to bring back with that
stone, or if you kind ofthink about it, I feel like people
(11:28):
coming back from the stone need towant to come back from the stone too,
right, They need to want thatother person. There's no one who
would want to see Riddle. Ithink the only thing we can think of
is possibly his mom, But eventhen I don't I don't think so,
right, And he certainly wouldn't wantto see her well, and Dumbledore even
says, you know, he wouldn'tever want to have anything to do with
(11:52):
the Resurrection Stone because he's afraid ofdeath. You know, he fears death.
He hasn't realized there are scarier thingsthan dying, you know, and
so, which is a very interestingstatement in and of itself for her to
be making like they're there are worsethings than the death, and Voldemort will
(12:15):
probably experience those soon. So Ithink one of the things that I really
enjoyed as well is that on topof understanding why, you know, Harry
hasn't died, why it was amistake for Voldemort to take his own blood
Harry's blood, but we also learnabout the Wand, and Dumbledore has an
(12:41):
explanation that he believes as to whyand why nobody else would know this,
which is what Voldemort has done hasconnected him and Harry in a way that
nobody could have ever suspected. Andso his guess on why the Wand did
what it did was fascinating to meand just so cool. And again,
(13:05):
I just kind of loved that it'ssomething where regardless of who you are,
even if you were all Avander,you wouldn't really have an answer for this,
because there's nobody in the world whoseexperienced a connection like this. Yeah,
it's a it's a all of this, this whole dynamic that Baltimore has
sort of like self created, whichwe talked about. I remember when super
(13:26):
early on, I think we startedtalking about the whole prophecy. So what's
up book five? Book four?I think it was book five, but
um, yeah, like he issort of self deterred, like everything he's
doing is setting this path up fromchoosing to take the blood, like you've
said, which I love of thebook has sort of like this emphasis on
(13:50):
how special Harry's blood was and whyit was such a big deal that he
like that what happened when he tookHarry's blood instead of just anybody's blood,
because technically he could have taken anybody'sblood to come back from the grave,
right, he just thought taking Harry'swould make him stronger. Um, but
yeah, the whole thing is justthere's it's such an intricate web he's created
(14:13):
that no one could have figured outwhat it all meant, right, and
there are so few people with theknowledge and the insight and the special insider
in depth understanding of everything besides Dumbledore. And even then he says he's just
guessing, right, which becomes thiskind of cute thing near the end when
(14:37):
you know, you explained about thewand but you know he said, well,
I don't know, Harry, andhe goes, well, give it
a guess. After Dumbledore says that, you know, his guesses are usually
pretty good, but yeah, thewhole thing is just, you know,
we get there's just so much Idon't even know, there's just so much.
(14:58):
It closes, it basically takes itany outstanding loophole that you didn't know
why or what something happened, andsort of answered it for us, at
least speculated on its answer. It'sreally interesting because the answer is that the
Wands, because they share a coreand because Voldemort and Harry share a part
(15:24):
of each other, that Harry's Wandhas basically taken some of who Voldemort is
in itself, and of course italso has Harry's courage, and so when
they faced each other where one theyrecognize, like the Wand recognizes that,
(15:48):
you know, Harry is trying tobe killed by the person who is also
inside of him at the same time, so it's a self defense mechanism that
the Voldemort believes that the Wand reproducedsome of Voldemort's own magic against him to
keep you know, Harry from dying, which again, it kind of makes
(16:11):
so much sense that like the wayshe explains this, and I just love
the way that Dumbledore's like, yeah, I'm just guessing, but this is
what I think you know, andit just shows obviously how smart Dumbledore is.
But yeah, I mean I thinkwhat you were talking about with this
whole idea of like the way inwhich the blood is so important, Like
(16:33):
I mean, this is so biblical, you know, the idea of like
sacrificial blood covering you know, somebodyin saving them, and it is something
that it's actually going to hint,hint, it's going to play into the
next chapter two after Harry decides togo back, and so it's it's fascinating,
like what she's playing with and whatshe's doing here. So it makes
(16:56):
it really good. And I lovethat Dumbledore explains to Harry finally as to
why he didn't tell him everything,and part of that is because he was
worried that Harry would go down thesame path that he did. And he
apologizes to Harry by saying, Ishould have known, and I knew long
(17:22):
ago that you were a much betterman than I was. And but you
know, this kind of goes toshow on how sometimes we don't trust people
because we think they might make thesame mistakes as we would, and we
play that game of kind of babekeeping things from somebody because of that reason,
(17:44):
and so it makes sense, andI love that. You know,
Harry understands too. He's not angryat Dumbledore anymore. He gets it now
because he has all these answers finally, And I think what makes it interesting
is that, and he's able tokind of from Dumbledore's point of view,
and that's good too, Like hedoesn't immediately jump to well, why did
(18:07):
you tell me? You know,like, no, it it makes sense,
you know. So yeah, Ithink this whole last part kind of
there's a lot of different things,but really the theme for me throughout this
chapter is the amount of impact orinfluence someone's intention has on something, Right,
(18:32):
Like we talk about Dumbledore's intentions ofpower and how he had to make
choice. You know, they eventalk about how he stays at Hogwarts as
a teacher because it was safe forDumbledore to not have any more power than
that, right, because you know, his intentions were selfish. How Valdemort's
intentions were all self protecting and orto stay alive and avoid death because he
(18:56):
was afraid, right, So fearwas his motivating And then we have Harry
who's selfless and everything he does heis concerned about others and other people's being
and and you know, creating thebest world for other people all the way
down to the very last decision atthe end of this chapter, and even
the wands right, the intention ofHarry trying to protect itself coming from a
(19:21):
place of love versus Baltimore's coming froma place of fear. Right, love
trumped fear. The whole thing comesback to all of that. And even
like you say, Dumbledore's decision tonot share all of this information was because
he was afraid of Harry's intentions,right, And he even chastises himself kind
(19:41):
of like you said, like Ishould have I knew better, and I
should have known that you would havebeen a bigger person and a better person
than I was. But I didn'ttrust myself. I didn't didn't trust myself
to give you all the answers andlet you make your own decisions. You
know, I think fear and selflessnessare kind of the two opposite sides of
(20:02):
a coin here, right, Andshe really has equated selflessness with love for
other people, so that whole fearand love parallel continues on and is basically
for me in this Chapter's like,the key thing throughout the whole series is
what is your motivator? Are youafraid or are you protecting someone or something
you love? Yeah, so Ithink that's that's huge. I do love
(20:26):
though, that Dumbledore calls out toat some point that you know, he
should have given it to Harry andlet Hermione. I think he said he
had hoped that miss Granger would slowthem down, ask those thoughtful questions,
challenge their use, and they're movingforward of collecting these hallows, which she
totally did. He nailed that one. But yeah, I do like that
(20:48):
that was kind of his own littlelike, well, I sort of a
hope that she would keep you guysat bay. It was cute. No,
you're absolutely right. That was somuch fun and uh and it made
sense. You know, this isone of the reasons why, you know,
he told Harry that you should haveRon and Hermione with you. You
(21:10):
know, he knew that he wasgoing to need both pieces of that puzzle
together, right, And you know, I loved him also explaining all about
you know, the hallows and thatyes, they were real, and you
know, he does think that thePeverrel brothers existed and that they probably were
just people who had created these themselves, and you know, they're just incredible
(21:33):
wizards who had created these items themselves. And then these items had been passed
down from generation to generation or likeyou know, the Elder One had passed
from people because of duels. Andso what you see here is, you
know, Harry is actually a descendantof the peverrels like because that's how it
(21:57):
was passed down in the family withthe Cloak, and so that's why he
has that. But the fact thatwhat you know, Grinderwald wanted out of
this. He what he wants ishe wants to be Master of Death.
But he doesn't really care so muchabout the Cloak, and neither did like
(22:22):
Dumbledore at that point because there hejust figured we'll maybe I'll be able to
hide, you know, my sisteron these adventures we go on. But
what they're obviously after is the power. And for Grenevald, the resurrections don't
he says, would only been basicallya way to bring back an army of
infury, which is like talk aboutso scary and and and I loved that
(22:51):
Doubledore talks about the fact that hehad to talk himself into the fact that
grin Revald wasn't that bad, right, because some of what he said really
struck him, right, and yetthat allowed him to be able to do
that kind of mental gymnastics. Andthen of course the moment where the argument
(23:15):
happened and Arianna dies, everything shatters, you know, like he can't and
he's always lived with the fact thathe doesn't know if it was his spell
or grenovald spell that killed his ownsister. Well, and even here we
don't it's not even that it's important, right because even there's even a moment
(23:37):
where Harry kind of questions like hedoesn't really want to know, and he
doesn't really want Dumbledore to tell himone way or the other, right,
because it really doesn't matter who.It just matters that it happened, And
that was like the turning point forhim, right, that was that straw
the book broke the camels back.But again, that's just so relatable,
(23:59):
Like how often do we as humans, as people have to talk ourselves into
something or find a way to justifysome behavior for others, right, Like
how often we find ourselves bargaining withlike you said, this isn't that bad
or there's worse or there's better outthere, right, Like, I'm a
good person because I am better thanthis person, right. Like that is
(24:22):
such a human thing to do,and a natural thing for us to want
to sort of like self justify ourdecisions and behaviors and choice in leaders and
things like that. So, youknow, I think it's a totally normal
thing. And it's so interesting tosee him go through that here, right,
and to know, on the otherend, this was absolutely the wrong
(24:45):
person for him to align himself with, not as you know, maybe as
bad as Baltimore, but in adifferent way, right, more of a
dictator raising an army versus a Idon't like a murdering psychopath, right,
I don't know. Grenda Wald feelsa little different than Valdemore. There's a
(25:06):
lot in common, but you know, they kind of had different approaches,
right. One was the stand upof all wizards and wizarding kind, and
the other is a pure blood sortof genocide happening amongst themselves. Both horrible
and terrible, but different, right, And so you can see how he
(25:26):
would have kind of justified it.But honestly, the interesting thing for me
here too is Grendell Wald and Voldemortare both incredibly, incredibly talented and smart
people, right, incredibly smart wizards. And that is what even Dumbledore says
drew him to Gwindo Wald is thathe was a brilliant young leader who also
(25:51):
wanted power like he did, andthat is, you know, attractive and
a lot of people desire that.So it's just so interesting to see all
of this kind of come out andthen well, and there is one main
difference though, because you know,Harry reminds and you know, tells Dumbledore,
(26:11):
because Dumbledore wouldn't have known this bythe time he died. But the
last act that Grinovald actually did wasto lie to Voldemort about the wand and
the fact that he seems to havehad a change of heart in prison,
and Dumbledore heard those rumors, butit seems to exactly. So there is
(26:36):
a difference between these two characters,which I think, when you know we're
watching the Fantastic B series, makesfor such a fascinating look at then this
character who we know is going toby the end of his life completely regret
his choices, which is really interesting. And again that's the difference between the
(26:56):
two characters. There between Voldemort andGrenvold. So I really love that.
But I think and I like,there's like two different bad guys, right
like, or in this sense,it's two different like antagonists, right like
they are they're they're both people wefear who had sort of malicious intentions,
(27:18):
but very very different. And it'snice to see that variety in your antagonists
and not that they're all of onebreed, right or they're not just all
categorized as pure evil. There's humanand sort of dynamics to all of them
as well. Yes, well,and part of that is that, like
you said, in the end,this really does come down to the selfish
(27:41):
desires, right, you know,and and that changes everything you know.
Um, those characters not only werethey smart and talented, but they were
also ambitious for power and they wereeverything they did wrong, yeah, including
(28:03):
Dumbledore. Two were blinded by emotion, right, So like most of the
time Baltimore and Grinda balvet'sphear, wefind out that Dumbledore was blinded by this
like need to see his sister again. So he picked up the ring and
put the ring on, thinking itwas the resurrection Stone, forgetting that it
was a horror CrOx and cursed himself, right, and he goes He basically
(28:29):
says, man, that was dumb. He says he still hadn't learned after
all these years, after all that, he was like, man, I
made such a stupid error and that'swhat ended up costing him his life,
right um in the in the ultimately, that was why he asked him to
kill him, is because that cursedhim. Right. So I just think
it's it's so interesting that all ofthese like impulses and emotional decisions are the
(28:52):
ones that are the worst, arethe ones that tripped everyone up. Right,
Like even Baltimore killing Harry's parents afterhis mom gave his blessing. That
was like an emotionally driven decision,right, So you know, all of
this, all of kind of thethings that catch them up, where their
downfalls were all because of their actingfrom a place of self preservation and emotional
(29:18):
need versus an external, selfless motivator. Yeah. Well, and Dumbledore explains
to Harry too, it's like,you know, I took the cloak out
of vein curiosity. I would havetaken the stone to attempt to drag people
back who are at peace, whereasyou for self sacrifice and in the end,
(29:40):
you are the worthy, you know, possessor of the hallows. You're
you're the one. And because youdid none of this out of vein,
ambition or selfish conceit, which isactually a Bible verse. And that's who
Harry is, right, he isthat person who is doing this all selflessly.
(30:00):
And yeah, and even in thatmoment, I'm so sorry, Even
in that moment he jumps on thisopportunity to tell Dumbledore like the fact that
he had the cloak was not likea make or break at moment for his
parents, Like it wouldn't have madea difference if his mom and dad had
the cloak or didn't have the cloak. Valtimore knew where they were. They
(30:23):
were going to die at that pointeither way. And he shouldn't blame himself,
essentially, is what he said,Like, you didn't change that course
of history by having that. Andhe immediately knew that there was like a
feeling of guilt there that went alongwith that, and he wanted him to
know that that curiosity didn't kill hisparents, right, but he has he
(30:45):
is not blaming him whatsoever, whichagain is another selfless moment. Harry could
have easily jumped on always been like, you could have saved my parents.
That could have saved my parents,could have changed the course of things.
But he was like it couldn't haveIt's okay, like give yourself a break,
well, and I love you know. As we get to the end
of the chapter, you know,the whole idea that we're at King's Cross,
(31:07):
you know, like we're we're atthis place where Harry could go on,
and Doubledore says he would just goon, you know as basically we
know, I mean like serious,going through the veil, and or he
could go back, and he says, you know that he thinks that if
(31:30):
he returns, Harry has a goodchance of finishing this for good, and
that a lot less people may dieif Harry goes back as well. And
I really love his statement where hesays, you know, do not pity
the dead, Harry, pity theliving and above all else those who live
without love. And it's such abeautiful statement because the thing to which Rowling
(31:56):
has been riding this whole time isthat she has been ryting about what it
means to love truly, which isself sacrificial love, Like that is what
she has been pointing at this wholetime, and it is the heroes of
the story are the ones who loveself sacrificially, and I think that that's
such a really beautiful thing. Andin the last, the very last line
(32:20):
of this chapter, she gets supermetaphysical, where Harry's like, has this
been happening all in my head?And Dumbledore's like, of course it has,
but that doesn't mean it's not real. And it was like, Wow,
what a way to wrap up thechapter. Yeah, and I do
love we didn't talk about it,but I think the movie does a terrible
job of explaining where they are what'sgoing on, right, because there's lots
(32:43):
of speculation. This could be purgatory, this could be in his head,
this could be heaven. Who knows, right, it's not super duper clear
here. You can kind of makea case for any of them, right,
But I do love that in thischapter they literally explain we talked about
his blood being magical, but thereason why he has the opportunity to go
(33:07):
back is because part of his mother'scharm tied him to Baltimore. Baltimore made
him a horror crux, and thenhis mother's charm sort of countered that and
said, oh well, that's great. I'm gonna tie my son back to
you, and as long as you'restill alive, he'll still be alive.
Right, So inevitably, what happenedin the last chapter is half of that
(33:29):
was severed, and now it's that, you know, Baltimore made the choice
to sever that half, and nowHarry gets to make the choice of how
the other half has severed. Doeshe move on like to your point through
the veil, or does he goback? And how how you know?
Dumbledore explains that if he can preventmore families from being torn apart, and
if he felt like that's a worthycause, then maybe he should go back.
(33:52):
And when the way he laid thatout to Harry, I sort of
felt like there was no true Harrydidn't have a choice at that point,
right, like, like you're himback, man, everything about Harry's character
says that he would find that aworthy cause and he should go back.
Um well, and I mean becauseHarry has the opportunities to save people's lives,
(34:13):
have less families torn apart, likehis life, like going back his
life will mean less pain for others. And again it's just it's so crystallize
him. Yeah, right, likelike you tell him that. He's like,
I don't know why you're giving mea choice that's not a choice anymore.
Man, Like, Yeah, I'mgoing back right even if I can't
(34:36):
stop him. If I can stopone more family from being torn apart,
than I will, right. Ifhe can do one more nice thing for
someone else before his life was toend, he would absolutely do that.
Um. So yeah, I likethat the choices is a non choice and
his character. But yeah, Ithink it ends beautifully. And we have
(34:57):
I think two more chapters now,one more chap. We have one more
chapter and an epilogue, so tosee what you know. Obviously, I
think we all want to know whatchoice is going to make. But we'll
see what choice he makes, ye. But yeah, I think it's It's
quite a beautiful wrap up here.Polson's sort of honest. It's very honest
(35:22):
and real, and yet I kindof want to sit in a big chair
next to Dumbledore under a twinkling skywith all the mist in warm robes.
I kind of want that for myself. Yeah, and I don't want to
die, but I want all that. So No, I agree with you.
I think this is um. Oneof the things this chapter really does
is that I think, you know, the whole time and with all the
(35:45):
struggle that Harry has had to beable to have this one last conversation with
Dumbledore is fantastic, you know.Um, I mean, he could always
go and talk to a portrait ofDumbledore, but it's not quite the same
and he or he's gotten that closure, I think too, for the trauma
of what happened at the end ofthe last year and end of this year,
(36:07):
and the mistrust in the questions,and you know, I think this
is in some way some wish fulfillmentbecause I think everybody would love to be
able to have this opportunity to haveone last conversation with somebody and kind of
wrap everything up. And Harry getsthat here, and it's the thing that
will also it does. It giveshim that almost clean slate to kind of
(36:29):
walk out now into the world againand do what Harry does best, which
is helped save everybody. So Ican't wait to get there with you.
But before we do, you know, where can everybody catch up with you,
Drea? If they want to winyou're not doing outpost. Sure you
can find me on Twitter at pcfChick or on Instagram at Drea Kaufman and
(36:53):
it's c F m ad and youcan find me on all all of the
social media platforms that I'm on ifI just search for Matt Rushing zero two
and then you can find me hereon the network, doing aggressive negotiations with
John Mills, as we talked aboutStar Wars each and every week over on
the TFM network, doing a fewshows. One is called the six of
(37:15):
two Club, where we talk aboutall of the fandoms we love. M
also doing a Snyder Cuts over thereas we've been walking through everything Zack Snyder's
directed, so you can find thoseboth in the same feed. Also doing
Literary Treks and the ORB. LiteraryTrecks is about the books and the comics
of Star Trek, and the ORBis about Star Trek Deep Space nine.
(37:36):
But thank you so much for checkingyour outpost. Join the Revolution, Join
(38:01):
the nerd Party.
Welcome to the Nede Paul team.Ah Miles Head. Your oltpost for the
(00:25):
week is freshly delivered, and Iam just one of the hosts here Matthew
rushing and with me as she isevery single week. Draycoffman, Hello,
Hey, hey, hey, hey, how are you good. I'm sad
that we're what two chapters from theend. I know, I know,
(00:49):
it's so crazy. It's so crazythat we just don't have much left,
and but it's so exciting to finallyget to a few chapters where all the
stuff comes to the end, likeall the answers come. So that part
is fun. Yeah, no,this is it's good from a material standpoint.
(01:10):
It's sad from it's at the endstandpoint. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
and I did want to say aquick thank you to um. We
got some some emails Drea from Syria, um that was that's her name,
and we also got email there fromAnna, and we got an email from
(01:30):
Lucia, and so we just wantedto say thank you to all of them
for their emails, really appreciate themsending those in and some of the stuff
they had in the emails there wasa little more personal, so didn't want
to read them on the air,but really appreciate you guys sending your emails
at me so much, so gladthat you're listening. And you know,
(01:52):
one refrain we've heard, Drea isthat that so many people have enjoyed listening
to us over the crazy you know, twenty twenty year And yeah, we're
just excited that we were there foranyone. And yeah, we've got a
few more episodes left for you,which, man, I can't believe it.
After this there are only three left. Oh my goodness. I think
(02:16):
when we do our last episode willbe interesting because I will be fully vaccinated
after a nice so I'm not surehow that lined up, but it lined
up real nicely. There you go, There you go, so well.
Before we get into the episodes,of course, just a quick reminder you
(02:38):
can find us wherever you get yourpodcasts. If you're on Apple Podcasts,
you can still give us a reviewand we'll read those last reviews that come
as we wrap up the show.We really appreciate everybody who's done that.
You know, this has been ahuge show, you know, honestly,
it's the biggest show that I dopodcasting wise, with the numbers that we
(03:00):
yet it's insane, Like people seemto love this show, Drea, and
they seem to love you and sometimesme, so I'm sure they loved you
to stop it. So it's it'sbeen great though, And of course you
could find us on Twitter at jointNerdparty on Facebook and Facebook dot com,
slash the Nerdparty, the Nerdparty dotcom, and of course you can send
us an email over at the Nerdpartydot com slash contact. So we are
(03:24):
at King's Cross and um, well, Drea, Harry wakes up naked.
I think I completely forgot he wokeup naked and they caught me up garden.
I was like, what we gothis whole this whole chapter with him
naked, which I mean spoiler alert, we don't. Um, but yeah,
(03:46):
he kind of like wakes up inthis like misty, not cloudy,
not misty, but like very etherealspace and he doesn't he kind of remembers
what happened last but doesn't really knowwhere he is. Is he dead?
Is he alive? What is thatnoise? And he's just like everything is
(04:09):
so bright. Yeah, I do. I do love that. You know,
for a few minutes he's not likeweirded out. Then he's naked,
and then he's like, you knowwhat, any clothes and like immediately the
robes appear that he can put on, and I like that they're warm,
though I won't imagine if I couldjust make those appear, they would be
warm and cozy like that like whenyou, you know, get your clothes
(04:31):
fresh out of the dryer, youknow, yes, yes, yes,
so And he realizes this noise isthis like ugly deformed, nasty looking naked
baby, and it's like struggling tobreathe, and before he can kind of
like figure it out, Yes,who's here, Dumbledore? Oh man,
(05:00):
oh man. You know, Ithink it's really interesting before we even dive
into what they talk about. Ithink one of the things that is fascinating
about this is that, you know, a lot of my love for Dumbledore
actually comes from this last chapter thathe's in, you know, which you
you know, people and Hermione eventalked about in this book about how Dumbledore
(05:25):
loved Harry, and this chapter reallylegitimizes exactly what Hermione said earlier in the
book. And you know, Ijust love the way that he, you
know, he comes up to Harry'slike you wonderful, you brave, brave
man. Let's walk and they're goingto walk, and they're going to talk
(05:46):
in this place, and they aregoing to answer a ton of questions about
a lot of the things that westill have questions about, which is a
lot of fun that we are finallygoing to get those answers. We also
so get a very human Dumbledore here, right. I think most of the
books we've we as kind of parallelto Harry, have put him on a
(06:09):
pedestal, right, Like we've talkeda little bit about that, like he
thought, and he still sort ofexpresses in this chapter at that Dumbledore is
this great, all powerful wizard.And here we have Dumbledore basically saying,
no, I'm really really not.I had to kind of self regulate all
of this because I made a lotof mistakes and I didn't trust myself,
you know, and I was genuinelynot as good a person as you are.
(06:32):
Right, He straight up says thatat some point, like I am
not as selfless. I am notas selfless of a person as you are,
Harry. You know. So weget a very human Dumbledore, which
I think is nice. I thinkwe all as people should understand that those
we look up to, our mentors, our parents, or teachers, whoever
(06:55):
you want to throw into that category, they're all human, right, And
while the point in which you meetthem in your life they may seem like
these perfect, amazing beings doesn't meanthat they are. Right. It's that
moment we all wake up and realizeour parents are not gods. Yeah,
they're not perfect, they're not amazing, right. This is that moment we
get with Dumbledore. And I thinkso Harry still kind of struggles with that
(07:18):
a little bit wants him to havemore confidence in faith in himself than he
does. There's some really beautiful,beautiful moments in here, but this,
I think I agree with you.I love that we get Dumbledore in his
full flawed human god's good instincts gloryhere in this chapter, and he's everything
(07:39):
we've ever needed. Yeah, yeah, I know, I couldn't have said
it better. I think that's oneof the things that really makes this chapter
great. And again I think,you know, retroactively, it's the thing
that makes this chapter for me lovehim so much, which is you can
then retroact fully understand as you rereadthe series, all of the humanity of
(08:03):
Dumbledore and really what a struggle thiswhole thing has been for him as well.
And so you know, they havethe conversation about whether or not Harry's
dead, and Dumbledore says, no, I don't think you're dead, and
they kind of talk about this placethat they're in and Harry's like, it
(08:24):
really kind of looks like King's Cross, except a lot cleaner. And then
we jump into this whole conversation andthe fact that Harry let Voldemort kill him
without trying to not die. Andwhat's dying right now is the part of
Voldemort's soul that was left in Harry, not Harry. And I think this
(08:50):
whole thing about this discussion about goingall the way back to the fourth book
of where you know Voldemort head insistedthat he take Harry's blood and so because
of that he now carries a pieceof Lily's sacrifice and himself. That's what's
(09:11):
keeping Harry alive as now this connectionthey have, which is doubly connected,
and so I I just I lovethis because it's the very last place in
which Voldemore cannot understand the deeper magic, right, he cannot understand how dangerous
(09:33):
Lily sacrifice actually was to him becausehe just doesn't get it, you know,
he never got it. And Ithink that's the thing that makes this
so interesting to me, because wereally see how sad Voldemore really is as
(09:54):
a person, like, you know, like he just there's so much he
just I doesn't get. Yeah,I mean not even comes within we get
and and regressing up around here alittle bit because there's just so much that
happens in this chapter. But evenwhen we start talking about the fact that,
you know, Dumbledore says one ofhis greatest flaws he was trying to
(10:16):
become a master of death, butnot the way that Valdemore is a master
of death. Right, Baltimore isa master of death, and that he
facilitates it and is avoiding it.Dumbledore was trying to do it in a
less aggressive way, right. Hewanted to avoid death, not conquer it
per se. Right, Like it'sa little bit different. I think Harry
(10:39):
says, like, yes, butyou didn't kill people to avoid death,
right, you just did what youcould. And when we kind of looked
at Baltimore and I think there wasa question of why did Valdimore go after
the hollows as well as you know, he was like, no, all
he wanted first of all, allhe wanted is the wand right, because
that's how you do. And thathe wouldn't want the Resurrection Stone because he
(11:07):
fears those people who have loved beforehim, not There's no one he loved.
There was no one he would wantto have a connection with from the
other side, And that alone,I think speaks volumes the fact that there's
not a single person who died thathe would want to bring back with that
stone, or if you kind ofthink about it, I feel like people
(11:28):
coming back from the stone need towant to come back from the stone too,
right, They need to want thatother person. There's no one who
would want to see Riddle. Ithink the only thing we can think of
is possibly his mom, But eventhen I don't I don't think so,
right, And he certainly wouldn't wantto see her well, and Dumbledore even
says, you know, he wouldn'tever want to have anything to do with
(11:52):
the Resurrection Stone because he's afraid ofdeath. You know, he fears death.
He hasn't realized there are scarier thingsthan dying, you know, and
so, which is a very interestingstatement in and of itself for her to
be making like they're there are worsethings than the death, and Voldemort will
(12:15):
probably experience those soon. So Ithink one of the things that I really
enjoyed as well is that on topof understanding why, you know, Harry
hasn't died, why it was amistake for Voldemort to take his own blood
Harry's blood, but we also learnabout the Wand, and Dumbledore has an
(12:41):
explanation that he believes as to whyand why nobody else would know this,
which is what Voldemort has done hasconnected him and Harry in a way that
nobody could have ever suspected. Andso his guess on why the Wand did
what it did was fascinating to meand just so cool. And again,
(13:05):
I just kind of loved that it'ssomething where regardless of who you are,
even if you were all Avander,you wouldn't really have an answer for this,
because there's nobody in the world whoseexperienced a connection like this. Yeah,
it's a it's a all of this, this whole dynamic that Baltimore has
sort of like self created, whichwe talked about. I remember when super
(13:26):
early on, I think we startedtalking about the whole prophecy. So what's
up book five? Book four?I think it was book five, but
um, yeah, like he issort of self deterred, like everything he's
doing is setting this path up fromchoosing to take the blood, like you've
said, which I love of thebook has sort of like this emphasis on
(13:50):
how special Harry's blood was and whyit was such a big deal that he
like that what happened when he tookHarry's blood instead of just anybody's blood,
because technically he could have taken anybody'sblood to come back from the grave,
right, he just thought taking Harry'swould make him stronger. Um, but
yeah, the whole thing is justthere's it's such an intricate web he's created
(14:13):
that no one could have figured outwhat it all meant, right, and
there are so few people with theknowledge and the insight and the special insider
in depth understanding of everything besides Dumbledore. And even then he says he's just
guessing, right, which becomes thiskind of cute thing near the end when
(14:37):
you know, you explained about thewand but you know he said, well,
I don't know, Harry, andhe goes, well, give it
a guess. After Dumbledore says that, you know, his guesses are usually
pretty good, but yeah, thewhole thing is just, you know,
we get there's just so much Idon't even know, there's just so much.
(14:58):
It closes, it basically takes itany outstanding loophole that you didn't know
why or what something happened, andsort of answered it for us, at
least speculated on its answer. It'sreally interesting because the answer is that the
Wands, because they share a coreand because Voldemort and Harry share a part
(15:24):
of each other, that Harry's Wandhas basically taken some of who Voldemort is
in itself, and of course italso has Harry's courage, and so when
they faced each other where one theyrecognize, like the Wand recognizes that,
(15:48):
you know, Harry is trying tobe killed by the person who is also
inside of him at the same time, so it's a self defense mechanism that
the Voldemort believes that the Wand reproducedsome of Voldemort's own magic against him to
keep you know, Harry from dying, which again, it kind of makes
(16:11):
so much sense that like the wayshe explains this, and I just love
the way that Dumbledore's like, yeah, I'm just guessing, but this is
what I think you know, andit just shows obviously how smart Dumbledore is.
But yeah, I mean I thinkwhat you were talking about with this
whole idea of like the way inwhich the blood is so important, Like
(16:33):
I mean, this is so biblical, you know, the idea of like
sacrificial blood covering you know, somebodyin saving them, and it is something
that it's actually going to hint,hint, it's going to play into the
next chapter two after Harry decides togo back, and so it's it's fascinating,
like what she's playing with and whatshe's doing here. So it makes
(16:56):
it really good. And I lovethat Dumbledore explains to Harry finally as to
why he didn't tell him everything,and part of that is because he was
worried that Harry would go down thesame path that he did. And he
apologizes to Harry by saying, Ishould have known, and I knew long
(17:22):
ago that you were a much betterman than I was. And but you
know, this kind of goes toshow on how sometimes we don't trust people
because we think they might make thesame mistakes as we would, and we
play that game of kind of babekeeping things from somebody because of that reason,
(17:44):
and so it makes sense, andI love that. You know,
Harry understands too. He's not angryat Dumbledore anymore. He gets it now
because he has all these answers finally, And I think what makes it interesting
is that, and he's able tokind of from Dumbledore's point of view,
and that's good too, Like hedoesn't immediately jump to well, why did
(18:07):
you tell me? You know,like, no, it it makes sense,
you know. So yeah, Ithink this whole last part kind of
there's a lot of different things,but really the theme for me throughout this
chapter is the amount of impact orinfluence someone's intention has on something, Right,
(18:32):
Like we talk about Dumbledore's intentions ofpower and how he had to make
choice. You know, they eventalk about how he stays at Hogwarts as
a teacher because it was safe forDumbledore to not have any more power than
that, right, because you know, his intentions were selfish. How Valdemort's
intentions were all self protecting and orto stay alive and avoid death because he
(18:56):
was afraid, right, So fearwas his motivating And then we have Harry
who's selfless and everything he does heis concerned about others and other people's being
and and you know, creating thebest world for other people all the way
down to the very last decision atthe end of this chapter, and even
the wands right, the intention ofHarry trying to protect itself coming from a
(19:21):
place of love versus Baltimore's coming froma place of fear. Right, love
trumped fear. The whole thing comesback to all of that. And even
like you say, Dumbledore's decision tonot share all of this information was because
he was afraid of Harry's intentions,right, And he even chastises himself kind
(19:41):
of like you said, like Ishould have I knew better, and I
should have known that you would havebeen a bigger person and a better person
than I was. But I didn'ttrust myself. I didn't didn't trust myself
to give you all the answers andlet you make your own decisions. You
know, I think fear and selflessnessare kind of the two opposite sides of
(20:02):
a coin here, right, Andshe really has equated selflessness with love for
other people, so that whole fearand love parallel continues on and is basically
for me in this Chapter's like,the key thing throughout the whole series is
what is your motivator? Are youafraid or are you protecting someone or something
you love? Yeah, so Ithink that's that's huge. I do love
(20:26):
though, that Dumbledore calls out toat some point that you know, he
should have given it to Harry andlet Hermione. I think he said he
had hoped that miss Granger would slowthem down, ask those thoughtful questions,
challenge their use, and they're movingforward of collecting these hallows, which she
totally did. He nailed that one. But yeah, I do like that
(20:48):
that was kind of his own littlelike, well, I sort of a
hope that she would keep you guysat bay. It was cute. No,
you're absolutely right. That was somuch fun and uh and it made
sense. You know, this isone of the reasons why, you know,
he told Harry that you should haveRon and Hermione with you. You
(21:10):
know, he knew that he wasgoing to need both pieces of that puzzle
together, right, And you know, I loved him also explaining all about
you know, the hallows and thatyes, they were real, and you
know, he does think that thePeverrel brothers existed and that they probably were
just people who had created these themselves, and you know, they're just incredible
(21:33):
wizards who had created these items themselves. And then these items had been passed
down from generation to generation or likeyou know, the Elder One had passed
from people because of duels. Andso what you see here is, you
know, Harry is actually a descendantof the peverrels like because that's how it
(21:57):
was passed down in the family withthe Cloak, and so that's why he
has that. But the fact thatwhat you know, Grinderwald wanted out of
this. He what he wants ishe wants to be Master of Death.
But he doesn't really care so muchabout the Cloak, and neither did like
(22:22):
Dumbledore at that point because there hejust figured we'll maybe I'll be able to
hide, you know, my sisteron these adventures we go on. But
what they're obviously after is the power. And for Grenevald, the resurrections don't
he says, would only been basicallya way to bring back an army of
infury, which is like talk aboutso scary and and and I loved that
(22:51):
Doubledore talks about the fact that hehad to talk himself into the fact that
grin Revald wasn't that bad, right, because some of what he said really
struck him, right, and yetthat allowed him to be able to do
that kind of mental gymnastics. Andthen of course the moment where the argument
(23:15):
happened and Arianna dies, everything shatters, you know, like he can't and
he's always lived with the fact thathe doesn't know if it was his spell
or grenovald spell that killed his ownsister. Well, and even here we
don't it's not even that it's important, right because even there's even a moment
(23:37):
where Harry kind of questions like hedoesn't really want to know, and he
doesn't really want Dumbledore to tell himone way or the other, right,
because it really doesn't matter who.It just matters that it happened, And
that was like the turning point forhim, right, that was that straw
the book broke the camels back.But again, that's just so relatable,
(23:59):
Like how often do we as humans, as people have to talk ourselves into
something or find a way to justifysome behavior for others, right, Like
how often we find ourselves bargaining withlike you said, this isn't that bad
or there's worse or there's better outthere, right, Like, I'm a
good person because I am better thanthis person, right. Like that is
(24:22):
such a human thing to do,and a natural thing for us to want
to sort of like self justify ourdecisions and behaviors and choice in leaders and
things like that. So, youknow, I think it's a totally normal
thing. And it's so interesting tosee him go through that here, right,
and to know, on the otherend, this was absolutely the wrong
(24:45):
person for him to align himself with, not as you know, maybe as
bad as Baltimore, but in adifferent way, right, more of a
dictator raising an army versus a Idon't like a murdering psychopath, right,
I don't know. Grenda Wald feelsa little different than Valdemore. There's a
(25:06):
lot in common, but you know, they kind of had different approaches,
right. One was the stand upof all wizards and wizarding kind, and
the other is a pure blood sortof genocide happening amongst themselves. Both horrible
and terrible, but different, right, And so you can see how he
(25:26):
would have kind of justified it.But honestly, the interesting thing for me
here too is Grendell Wald and Voldemortare both incredibly, incredibly talented and smart
people, right, incredibly smart wizards. And that is what even Dumbledore says
drew him to Gwindo Wald is thathe was a brilliant young leader who also
(25:51):
wanted power like he did, andthat is, you know, attractive and
a lot of people desire that.So it's just so interesting to see all
of this kind of come out andthen well, and there is one main
difference though, because you know,Harry reminds and you know, tells Dumbledore,
(26:11):
because Dumbledore wouldn't have known this bythe time he died. But the
last act that Grinovald actually did wasto lie to Voldemort about the wand and
the fact that he seems to havehad a change of heart in prison,
and Dumbledore heard those rumors, butit seems to exactly. So there is
(26:36):
a difference between these two characters,which I think, when you know we're
watching the Fantastic B series, makesfor such a fascinating look at then this
character who we know is going toby the end of his life completely regret
his choices, which is really interesting. And again that's the difference between the
(26:56):
two characters. There between Voldemort andGrenvold. So I really love that.
But I think and I like,there's like two different bad guys, right
like, or in this sense,it's two different like antagonists, right like
they are they're they're both people wefear who had sort of malicious intentions,
(27:18):
but very very different. And it'snice to see that variety in your antagonists
and not that they're all of onebreed, right or they're not just all
categorized as pure evil. There's humanand sort of dynamics to all of them
as well. Yes, well,and part of that is that, like
you said, in the end,this really does come down to the selfish
(27:41):
desires, right, you know,and and that changes everything you know.
Um, those characters not only werethey smart and talented, but they were
also ambitious for power and they wereeverything they did wrong, yeah, including
(28:03):
Dumbledore. Two were blinded by emotion, right, So like most of the
time Baltimore and Grinda balvet'sphear, wefind out that Dumbledore was blinded by this
like need to see his sister again. So he picked up the ring and
put the ring on, thinking itwas the resurrection Stone, forgetting that it
was a horror CrOx and cursed himself, right, and he goes He basically
(28:29):
says, man, that was dumb. He says he still hadn't learned after
all these years, after all that, he was like, man, I
made such a stupid error and that'swhat ended up costing him his life,
right um in the in the ultimately, that was why he asked him to
kill him, is because that cursedhim. Right. So I just think
it's it's so interesting that all ofthese like impulses and emotional decisions are the
(28:52):
ones that are the worst, arethe ones that tripped everyone up. Right,
Like even Baltimore killing Harry's parents afterhis mom gave his blessing. That
was like an emotionally driven decision,right, So you know, all of
this, all of kind of thethings that catch them up, where their
downfalls were all because of their actingfrom a place of self preservation and emotional
(29:18):
need versus an external, selfless motivator. Yeah. Well, and Dumbledore explains
to Harry too, it's like,you know, I took the cloak out
of vein curiosity. I would havetaken the stone to attempt to drag people
back who are at peace, whereasyou for self sacrifice and in the end,
(29:40):
you are the worthy, you know, possessor of the hallows. You're
you're the one. And because youdid none of this out of vein,
ambition or selfish conceit, which isactually a Bible verse. And that's who
Harry is, right, he isthat person who is doing this all selflessly.
(30:00):
And yeah, and even in thatmoment, I'm so sorry, Even
in that moment he jumps on thisopportunity to tell Dumbledore like the fact that
he had the cloak was not likea make or break at moment for his
parents, Like it wouldn't have madea difference if his mom and dad had
the cloak or didn't have the cloak. Valtimore knew where they were. They
(30:23):
were going to die at that pointeither way. And he shouldn't blame himself,
essentially, is what he said,Like, you didn't change that course
of history by having that. Andhe immediately knew that there was like a
feeling of guilt there that went alongwith that, and he wanted him to
know that that curiosity didn't kill hisparents, right, but he has he
(30:45):
is not blaming him whatsoever, whichagain is another selfless moment. Harry could
have easily jumped on always been like, you could have saved my parents.
That could have saved my parents,could have changed the course of things.
But he was like it couldn't haveIt's okay, like give yourself a break,
well, and I love you know. As we get to the end
of the chapter, you know,the whole idea that we're at King's Cross,
(31:07):
you know, like we're we're atthis place where Harry could go on,
and Doubledore says he would just goon, you know as basically we
know, I mean like serious,going through the veil, and or he
could go back, and he says, you know that he thinks that if
(31:30):
he returns, Harry has a goodchance of finishing this for good, and
that a lot less people may dieif Harry goes back as well. And
I really love his statement where hesays, you know, do not pity
the dead, Harry, pity theliving and above all else those who live
without love. And it's such abeautiful statement because the thing to which Rowling
(31:56):
has been riding this whole time isthat she has been ryting about what it
means to love truly, which isself sacrificial love, Like that is what
she has been pointing at this wholetime, and it is the heroes of
the story are the ones who loveself sacrificially, and I think that that's
such a really beautiful thing. Andin the last, the very last line
(32:20):
of this chapter, she gets supermetaphysical, where Harry's like, has this
been happening all in my head?And Dumbledore's like, of course it has,
but that doesn't mean it's not real. And it was like, Wow,
what a way to wrap up thechapter. Yeah, and I do
love we didn't talk about it,but I think the movie does a terrible
job of explaining where they are what'sgoing on, right, because there's lots
(32:43):
of speculation. This could be purgatory, this could be in his head,
this could be heaven. Who knows, right, it's not super duper clear
here. You can kind of makea case for any of them, right,
But I do love that in thischapter they literally explain we talked about
his blood being magical, but thereason why he has the opportunity to go
(33:07):
back is because part of his mother'scharm tied him to Baltimore. Baltimore made
him a horror crux, and thenhis mother's charm sort of countered that and
said, oh well, that's great. I'm gonna tie my son back to
you, and as long as you'restill alive, he'll still be alive.
Right, So inevitably, what happenedin the last chapter is half of that
(33:29):
was severed, and now it's that, you know, Baltimore made the choice
to sever that half, and nowHarry gets to make the choice of how
the other half has severed. Doeshe move on like to your point through
the veil, or does he goback? And how how you know?
Dumbledore explains that if he can preventmore families from being torn apart, and
if he felt like that's a worthycause, then maybe he should go back.
(33:52):
And when the way he laid thatout to Harry, I sort of
felt like there was no true Harrydidn't have a choice at that point,
right, like, like you're himback, man, everything about Harry's character
says that he would find that aworthy cause and he should go back.
Um well, and I mean becauseHarry has the opportunities to save people's lives,
(34:13):
have less families torn apart, likehis life, like going back his
life will mean less pain for others. And again it's just it's so crystallize
him. Yeah, right, likelike you tell him that. He's like,
I don't know why you're giving mea choice that's not a choice anymore.
Man, Like, Yeah, I'mgoing back right even if I can't
(34:36):
stop him. If I can stopone more family from being torn apart,
than I will, right. Ifhe can do one more nice thing for
someone else before his life was toend, he would absolutely do that.
Um. So yeah, I likethat the choices is a non choice and
his character. But yeah, Ithink it ends beautifully. And we have
(34:57):
I think two more chapters now,one more chap. We have one more
chapter and an epilogue, so tosee what you know. Obviously, I
think we all want to know whatchoice is going to make. But we'll
see what choice he makes, ye. But yeah, I think it's It's
quite a beautiful wrap up here.Polson's sort of honest. It's very honest
(35:22):
and real, and yet I kindof want to sit in a big chair
next to Dumbledore under a twinkling skywith all the mist in warm robes.
I kind of want that for myself. Yeah, and I don't want to
die, but I want all that. So No, I agree with you.
I think this is um. Oneof the things this chapter really does
is that I think, you know, the whole time and with all the
(35:45):
struggle that Harry has had to beable to have this one last conversation with
Dumbledore is fantastic, you know.Um, I mean, he could always
go and talk to a portrait ofDumbledore, but it's not quite the same
and he or he's gotten that closure, I think too, for the trauma
of what happened at the end ofthe last year and end of this year,
(36:07):
and the mistrust in the questions,and you know, I think this
is in some way some wish fulfillmentbecause I think everybody would love to be
able to have this opportunity to haveone last conversation with somebody and kind of
wrap everything up. And Harry getsthat here, and it's the thing that
will also it does. It giveshim that almost clean slate to kind of
(36:29):
walk out now into the world againand do what Harry does best, which
is helped save everybody. So Ican't wait to get there with you.
But before we do, you know, where can everybody catch up with you,
Drea? If they want to winyou're not doing outpost. Sure you
can find me on Twitter at pcfChick or on Instagram at Drea Kaufman and
(36:53):
it's c F m ad and youcan find me on all all of the
social media platforms that I'm on ifI just search for Matt Rushing zero two
and then you can find me hereon the network, doing aggressive negotiations with
John Mills, as we talked aboutStar Wars each and every week over on
the TFM network, doing a fewshows. One is called the six of
(37:15):
two Club, where we talk aboutall of the fandoms we love. M
also doing a Snyder Cuts over thereas we've been walking through everything Zack Snyder's
directed, so you can find thoseboth in the same feed. Also doing
Literary Treks and the ORB. LiteraryTrecks is about the books and the comics
of Star Trek, and the ORBis about Star Trek Deep Space nine.
(37:36):
But thank you so much for checkingyour outpost. Join the Revolution, Join
(38:01):
the nerd Party.
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