April 20, 2021 • 43 mins
Nineteen Years Later.
In this episode of Owl Post: A Harry Potter Podcast hosts Andrea Coffman and Matthew Rushing talk about the the Epilogue of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. We share a message from a very special person and then dive into our thoughts on this last look at the lives of the beloved trinity of characters, as they enjoy the rewards of their years of struggle against Voldemort.
Hosts
Andrea Coffman and Matthew Rushing
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Twitter: @JoinNerdParty
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In this episode of Owl Post: A Harry Potter Podcast hosts Andrea Coffman and Matthew Rushing talk about the the Epilogue of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. We share a message from a very special person and then dive into our thoughts on this last look at the lives of the beloved trinity of characters, as they enjoy the rewards of their years of struggle against Voldemort.
Hosts
Andrea Coffman and Matthew Rushing
Send us your feedback!
Twitter: @JoinNerdParty
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thenerdparty
Email: http://www.thenerdparty.com/contact
Subscribe in Apple Podcasts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the nerd polity. OhMiles, your outpost for the week is
(00:24):
freshly delivered, and I am justone of the hosts here Matthew rushing and
with me as she has been forthis entire journey. With only one episode
left, so that makes this thepenultimate episode of Altpost. Drea Kaufman,
Hello, Hey, how are you? Um? I am sad, happy,
(00:46):
happy to be here, sad thejourneys happened to an end. Proud
of us for making it. Yeah, I say I'm proud of us for
making it's it's been crazy. Imean, yeah, gosh, it does
feel like noween years later. Coviddidn't help that either. That last year
was like a decade, absolutely so. But we are really excited to be
(01:10):
here. Um. So one thinghappened to us, Drea. We got
an incredible email. If I'm alistener, her name is Jennifer. I'm
not gonna give her last name,but it's not even like an email.
It's a gift. It was it. She wanted to say that she wanted
to congratulate us for getting to theend of the podcast and that it's meant
(01:32):
a lot to her. Um.And so she sent us a special message
from somebody from the Harry Potter universe, and so I think we should just
play the message so that way peoplecan hear it. Yeah, I think
as long as long as no onesues us, I think we're let's play.
(01:53):
Let's play the message. Yeah,here we go action. Hello.
Hello, Hello, I'm looking fora Drea and I'm looking for a Mat.
I see you, I see youboth, Drea, Matt. Hello,
this is Tom Felton or Draco witha pair of headphones and a chain,
(02:13):
whatever you fancy. Draco and acrap disguise. Maybe that's a bit
better way of saying it. Anyway. Listen, Jennifer and I have been
speaking for months about the best wayto well to celebrate really the fact that
you've done a not only a centuryof posts, a double century, two
hundred episodes of your podcast. Congratto bloody Lations. That's fantastic. I
(02:37):
wish I'd known about it four years. Bloody hell, that's marvelous, marvelous.
I can't tell you how that muchof a difference that will have made
to a lot of people's lives.And hopefully, you know, Drea and
Matt can still stand each other forthe next four years of work. In
the meantime, thank you for yoursupport and keeping the what can they keeping
(02:58):
the Harry Potter flame alive. Feellike it's just been surging crazy ever since
it started. So marvelous to thinkthat that we are still here celebrating something
that was such a big part ofmy life and clearly yours as well.
So in the meantime, keep upthe good works so they're in for life.
If you are huffle paths, Iwill find you and convince you to
(03:21):
change. I'm kidding, yes,mischief managed based. So I don't know
about you, Drea, but Iresponded to that message by kind of freaking
out. Yeah, I definitely fanggirled out. He is so charming,
and I love how he sort ofembodies the character a little bit at the
(03:42):
end, But it is honestly justthe most kind, pleasant person that I've
ever met. And I remember whenI listened to it the very first time.
I was I was truly honored thatsomeone would go out of their way
to give us such an amazing gift. I mean, the fact that somebody
spent money on us like that,Yeah, it was incredible. So first,
(04:08):
Jennifer, just thank you so much. I mean it, it meant
the world to Dre and I andyou know, I've shown it to a
bunch of people because I'm so proudof getting that message. It just is
spangled up from several days like ohmy gosh, look what I got exactly
exactly, and so just really appreciateyou doing that for us. It truly
(04:30):
did mean the world to both ofus, and so just very excited to
have gotten to share that too withwith everybody on our post. And um,
we really do, you know,appreciate all of you listening for all
of these years. You know,Um, it's been an incredible journey for
us. And as we are atthe we have one more episode that'll be
(04:51):
coming up. We'll talk about alittle bit later on how that one's gonna
work. But you know, toto reach the end here is isn'tstounding.
And so really appreciate everybody you know, being here for us and writing us
all the emails that you have andjust it. It truly is just an
(05:13):
awesome thing, and you know,we have enjoyed every moment of it.
So you know, thank you somuch for you know, really helping to
make our day. So you know, I said I started this with I'm
happy to be you know here,I'm sad that the Attorney's almost over.
But you know, if anything,I know Matt and I are both constantly
(05:36):
astounded by all of you who camewith us, either as we recorded or
in syndication, or however you foundus. The fact is, if you're
hearing this message now, you've listenedto a lot of us. And you
know, we do this because youguys send us such great vibes, and
you guys give us such positive reviewsand great feedback, and we learn and
(06:00):
grow so much. So I knowthis has been we'll talk we'll talk about
a lot of this in the nextepisode, but this has been a pretty
incredible journey for me. And soas we started to talk here about the
epilogue, you know, it's avery short window into what happens, but
I sort of I sort of feellike, you know, our next episode
is going to be our epilogue,So you know, thank you all.
(06:23):
Yeah, you know, before weget into the epilogue, just quick remind
of all the places you can findus still. Of course, you can
find us on Twitter at Joint NerdParty, run on Facebook at Facebook dot
com, slash the nerd Party.We at the nerdparty dot com you can
go to if you want to sendus an email, which you can,
and we're going to be talking aboutthose emails that we've gotten recently, of
course in the next episode, sowe'd love to hear from you, and
(06:46):
of course also you can check usout on Instagram at the nerd Party.
But you know, Drea, Iwanted to ask you. We talked a
little bit about this last week,but I do think you know, I've
remember when the book came out andthere was kind of mixed reviews in the
sense of the way that people thoughtof, you know, the epilogue and
(07:09):
whether or not they liked it ornot, And so I just wanted to
ask you, do you like theepilogue and did you feel like it was
something that really kind of completed thebook for you. I had said at
the end of the last episode thatI missed the trio kind of experiencing that
last chapter together, right, thatwas kind of my biggest criticism, And
(07:31):
I feel like when I we recordedthat episode, it didn't really it dawned
on me that that's why I didn'tcare for that chapter, And then I
remember well in the past, ifI was just read the book all the
way through, right, I'm notreading it chapter by chapter and stopping to
absorb it. So for me,the epilogue really is what I needed in
the last chapter. Right. It'sall of the trio coming together with Jenny
(07:54):
and some new faces, and itreally gives me that closure that I did
feel like I got in the lastchapter. So I do really enjoy the
epilogue. I get why some peopledon't care for it. I get that
it feels very rosy colored and everything'sall nicely buttoned up and things haven't really
(08:15):
changed all that much. But Ithink the elements it does bring to me
from loving these characters so much ispretty fantastic. Yeah, right there with
you, honestly in that I personallythink that this is a completely legitimate way
for her to have wrapped up theseries, and I honestly think that without
(08:39):
it the series isn't complete. Ithink that you need this because all of
you know, Harry's life has beenone spent without family, right, you
know, it has been one wherehe has not had anybody to look after
(09:01):
him, and part of what wehave seen throughout the series is that he
has begun to find a family,and that family has has common the form
of the Weasleys, and now heis officially a part of that family.
(09:22):
And I think there's something really specialabout that, you know, and that
he now has his own family,you know, the thing that he didn't
have he now has, and Ithink that is really really neat to see.
I also would argue that, likeyou said, after such an emotional
(09:48):
build up, right for everything thatyou've been through through the whole series,
to get to the end of thischapter, the last chapter, and then
get to this epilo where you getto see that everything that Harry fought for,
that he gets to finally experience himself, is I think really important,
(10:13):
you know. Um. I thinkit legitimizes the struggle, right you know,
and that the struggle doesn't necessarily lastforever as large as it has been
for Harry in his life, rightyou know, um, And so that
you can overcome and move forward,and that you know, again this whole
(10:35):
process, that there are things towhich that are worth fighting for and being
willing to die for because this isthe result, right And and Harry did
that not just for himself obviously,but he did it for the entire Wizarding
World, and not just the WizardingWorld. But he did it for everyone,
(11:00):
right, Like he saved he helpssave the entire world, because otherwise
Voldemort's plan was to take over theworld, you know, like the cleanse
all the known exactly. So thisis you know, to see that there
was you know, Harry didn't dothis for the reward, but to see
that he gets the reward in theend, I think is really to me
(11:24):
is very satisfying. Without this,I think I would have been actually less
satisfied. Yeah, there's a coupleof things in here too. I think
it it sort of ends our journeywhere our journey started. Like, yes,
I know, our journey truly startedwith him in a cupboard and Hagred
chasing them down and putting a pigsail on Dudley and all that fun stuff,
right, but this is truly whereit began, right in Harry's sort
(11:48):
of feelings, like this is wherehe found his home, and so for
it to end with his kids goingto someplace that truly taught him what a
home was, I think kind ofhis full circle. Right, You're ending
where he started, right, SoI also think there's some sort of finality
in using that as the mechanism forending. The other thing I love is
(12:13):
that it's a really short couple ofpages. I don't even remember how many
pages. It's not super long,but we still get a glimpse into the
fact that these characters are still whowe know and love, even nineteen years
later, or however many years laterit's nineteen I think, right, you
(12:35):
know, Ron is still sort ofbeing Ron and he makes a handful of
jokes throughout this section, and Hermioneis still being Hermione and sort of worried
about the consequences and kind of tryingto control things, and you know,
Jenny is still Jenny, and youstill kind of get all of those characters
(12:56):
and they've just really settled into whothey are, right And I like seeing
that the characters we knew and lovedand grew up with grew up as themselves,
right, So that was pretty special, you know. I think the
other thing just just on Harry himself. You know, for him, Hogwarts
was always home because he didn't haveone, And now Harry actually has a
(13:18):
home, right, Like, hehas a life outside of Hogwarts, which
is really important for him to beable to have that, and you know
that to have his life with Jinnyin their family, and of course you
know Ron and Hermionea in him areobviously still very close. You know the
fact that, yeah they're family nowyou know, they're literally all family and
(13:43):
they're all related in this this reallybeautiful way. But I think again,
the one thing that Harry never trulyhad, which was a home outside of
Hogwarts, he now has. Andso again rewarding the character and then be
able to see the reward I thinkis beautiful and you know, I just
love it. You know, theyhave three kids, and you know that
(14:05):
the whole nineteen years later is themtraveling to platform nine every three quarters to
drop off their two oldest kids,you know, to go to Hogwarts,
and you know, their youngest daughteris all wanting to go and upset that
she can't go. Their oldest Jamesis teasing the younger brother, Albice about
how he's gonna, you know,be a Slytherin. You know. I
(14:26):
mean, it's just this great familydynamic of of of everything that Harry didn't
again get to grow up with,and yet the personalities seem like a fun
mix of the Weasley kids. Youknow, as well as Harry's own personality,
and so that is really fun tosee. And I really like the
(14:50):
all the interactions we get with youknow, Harry and his own kids.
You know, Harry seems to bea really good dad, you know,
and and Jinny a great mom,and their kids love them to death,
you know. And I love howAlvis is like, well you'll you'll write
me, right, and and thenthe oldest is like you only need like
(15:11):
one letter, I mean most peoplewill you get one letter? And I
like how Jenny's like, we wroteJames three times a week last year.
Don't believe everything he tells you,and you know it's just which is so
George, Yeah, George, right, Like it's you're right. It's a
there's little elements of all the Weasleycharacters and all really all the characters we've
known and loved throughout this right weUm. We even get sort of a
(15:37):
call back to um, I guess, a call forward if you will,
to Tonks and Remus his son TeddyTeddy. He gets a call out in
this chapter, Um, and wehave to just sort of infer the other
character that he's um written with,Victory, who we don't know who she
(16:00):
is, but she's that she doesn't, so she's got to be one of
the ether either. George's yeah,yeah, it's some other person in the
family's child, right, you justknow they're a cousin. But um,
(16:21):
yeah, we get, we get. There's picture of all these kids.
Um and I'm not going to gointo it quite yet because I think we'll
get there. But there's you know, a couple of moments too where you
talk a lot about um, You'vesaid it a couple of times now,
how Harry kind of gets this reward. And the thing I want to emphasize
about the reward he gets is justthat he gets the privilege to live life
(16:42):
the way everyone else has gotten tolive life, right, Like, he
gets to be normal, he getsto have a job and family and a
house. Like. We're not talkingabout any ostentatious reward. He's not.
He literally fought to just have theright to of life like everyone else.
Like that is his reward. Um. And I think it's beautiful that he
(17:07):
takes such a sort of humble approachto that, because he could have easily
gotten all the glory and gold andmade a big sensation out of everything that
he did and become this icon.But like he chose not to, right
because that's not Harry. Um,and that's not what Harry everone wanted,
right. Um. So you knowthat comes up right kind of near the
(17:29):
end of the chapter. But UM, I do I do love that we
get these moments where we can tellthat these friends and now family actual family
related family because you have family,but you know this is family now.
UM get the opportunity to like showhow close they've been, they're even still
close with Neville to send send themmy love. I can't send a professor
(17:56):
well and and um, you know, I think one of the things too
we see here is, um,you know the fact that all of the
kids or friends you know obviously youknow they're very close. They're all family,
they're all cousins, you know.And UM, I love the little
bit where you talk about Ron beingRon. And there's there's the great moment
(18:18):
where he talks about, you know, passing the Muggle driving test and how
Hermione had said, oh, butyou had to confund him and he was
like, no, I didn't.And then he's like to Harry, yes
I did, Yeah I did.Um yeah, He's like, I don't
want any worry about that. UmAnd and there was this really interesting moment
though, where you know, umHermione has to remind Ron, you know,
(18:41):
not to set the kids against oneanother before they even meet one another,
you know, which I thought wasa really interesting thing, because you
know, that's been what this wholebook has been about, is basically not
judging people. Basically a book byits cover, right, we can only
judge people by their actions. That'show we can judge people. You know,
how they act can tell, We'lltell us who they are. And
(19:04):
and that at that point is alla result of our good friend here from
the beginning of our episode showing upwith his new wife and their son,
who has like the perfect name,I don't know, she's so great with
names, Scorpio and them kind offeeling uncomfortable and awkward, but not angry
(19:27):
or anything like that. You justit's almost like the opposite of the last
time where Harry and his like crewwere kind of uncomfortable and you know,
Malfoy and kind of ran ran thegambit. Now it almost feels like a
turn. And to your point,what you're talking about is her minding reminding,
reminding roll on to teach the kidsto have a little humility, right,
(19:49):
like, like, don't judge abook. He might be just fine,
you don't know, well, AndI mean there's there's even that in
that little moment, you know,you have have this kind of like almost
kind of respect between them, rightyou know they're never going to be best
friends, but you get the sensethat Malfoy is not his parents right there.
(20:11):
They're probably still a little hoity toity. I was just gonna way to
describe it. That's how I alwaysthought of it. He's like kind of
hoity toity about it, yes,exactly, but that he is somebody that
you know, you get the sensethat almost like Harry and Draco could have
(20:32):
a conversation together now and it wouldn'tbe weird. You know that there is
a relationship there which is interesting,you know, if anything, I think
that would be fascinating to kind ofsee that kind of thing explored, you
know, because to me, thatwould be a really interesting thing to see
(20:52):
the way in which m forgiveness hashappened, because that's a part of this
and I think speaking to what Hermionereminds Ron of, which is no,
we don't We're not going to putlabels on people because of who their parents
were, you know, or whathappened in the past. We are going
to stop doing that. And Ithink that again, that's that whole othering
(21:17):
thing that we saw throughout all ofthese books where you get, you know,
Voldemort side specifically othering, but thenthe natural reaction, right is to
do that on the other side,right, and so that you just have
this back and forth of othering.And what what Hermione I think says here
is like, we're not going toturn our kids against one another before they
(21:41):
even meet each other. We're goingto allow them to make those determinations themselves,
and again base that on who thosepeople are, not who we think
they are just because of maybe theirhistory. And I think such, I
mean, Harry Potter could not bemore timely then that message right there here
(22:02):
at the very end, Like it'sphenomenal. Yeah, there's so much.
There's so much in that because Ithink each and every one of these characters
experienced some sort of assignment, assumptionjudgment based on their family and not themselves,
right, and some of them wereaccurate and some of them weren't.
(22:23):
Right. Like if you remember backto the very beginning. Ron is sort
of judged by Malfoy at the verybeginning for having hand me down robes and
red hair. He must be aWeasley, right, immediately got judged based
on his family. Hermione is judgedthroughout the series. We're being a mud
blood, right, and that becomesa thing. Harry is judged because his
(22:48):
parents and died and he became thislike chosen One. Malfoy has the status
with his dad as a death eater, right, Like, all of these
characters had some sort of assignment ofjudgment based on who their family was,
And so I think it's really wisethat Hermione cautions against continuing that, even
(23:10):
if it's easy, even if itturns out to be right, wait and
let the kids figure out how tomake that assessment and make that judgment for
themselves. And I think that's sucha powerful message for parents to send to
their kids nowadays, Right, especiallyin the day of these days where we
get a lot of bullying going on, it's important to remember to teach your
kids to be kind and to reservejudgment until you can judge someone's actions and
(23:36):
not their person. Right, Youractions a culmination of your actions. Ultimately
decide your character, so you don'teven really need a judge character. The
actions will speak enough for that.So I think it is a subtle but
powerful message that kind of happens hereat the end, and I think it
becomes really apparent when Harry and Jenny'ssort of last kid, Um quietly whispers
(24:03):
to Harry before he boards the trainbecause he is genuinely afraid of the sorting
hat well, and and it iskind of beautiful in some ways, like
he is afraid of being a Slytherin. He's afraid of what that might mean.
And I love that. You know. Harry gets down, you know,
on his knee, and he explainsto his son, Look, you
(24:26):
know, you're named after two ofthe most important and incredibly brave men that
Harry knew, you know, AlbusDumbledore and several Snape and one was a
Slytherin. And so it's not aboutwhat house you're in. It it's again,
it's about how you act. It'sabout your actions. It all comes
(24:49):
down to um who you show yourselfto be, you know, And and
that's something that Dumbledore remember very keenon telling Harry in the first place.
You know, it is it isour actions that prove who we are.
So the beauty of saying, look, it doesn't really matter, but if
it matters that much to you,And this is what I thought was kind
(25:10):
of beautiful is that this is somethingthat Harry has not told any of his
other kids before, which is thathe actually had an impact on where the
sorting hat put him. The sortinghat takes into account what you want and
what matters to you, and thatif it really matters to you that much,
the sorting Hat's going to take thatinto account. And he's just shocked.
(25:36):
He's like, wait really, andhe's like, yeah, it did
for me. And I think there'ssuch a beauty for that too, you
know. And what I kind ofwas thinking about was just how Harry is
really setting up his kids and specificallyAlbs for success. Like, the choices
(25:59):
that you're going to make in yourlife are going to make you who you're
going to be. And so youcan start by making good choices, or
you can start by making not sogood choices, right, And if something's
really important to you, it's worthfighting for, right like, And so
I just that was really something thatstruck with me or stuck with me here
(26:25):
in this chapter and this little epiloguewas just that kind of message. And
um, I just really liked whatHarry had to say to his son,
you know. And again I likethat Harry is taking into account the emotional
stability of his child, right likeum, you know, and speaking to
(26:47):
him in a way that he canunderstand, and like taking in to account
his feelings and like the again,it's the very thing that Harry never had.
Nobody cared about Harry or what hethought or any of that stuff,
right, and Harry's making sure itdoesn't repeat the mistakes of the past that
he suffered from. And so tome, and it's just really this whole
little section here where he's talking toAlbus is just so sweet and it's such
(27:11):
good parenting, right, like you'relistening to your kid, you're helping them
understand the world, and it wasjust kind of beautiful. Well, and
he doesn't tell him the right answer, He doesn't tell him what he should
do. He doesn't say, youknow, it's okay, you'll be a
Gryffindor, or you can choose Gryffindor. He says, if the choice is
important to you, you know,you can make that choice, right he
(27:37):
lets him, he empowers him todo what he thinks is right for himself,
right. And I think the otherthing that's beautiful about that is the
fact that a lot of the bookshave painted the different houses sort of against
each other. Surprisingly, what I'vereally noticed on this rate is we got
almost no Hufflepuff at all throughout anyof these books. We get a small
(27:59):
characters here and there, but yeah, and we get a small amount of
raven Cloth, But really it's Grffinderand Slytherin that we have the most interaction
with throughout the series. But andit's almost, you know, Gryffindor is
the good guys and Slytherin out ofthe bad guys, just because of who
we know has been associated with thathouse. Right. But I think what's
interesting here is he's almost washing thataway too and saying like they're not all
(28:23):
bad. Like, just because yougo to Slytherin doesn't mean that it's going
to make you a bad person.That comes with other choices associated with your
life, not just which house youget assigned to. Right, There is
no inherent good and bad. It'sthe choices we make and who we choose
to be in our life that determinesthat for us, and I think that's
(28:44):
a subtle way of showing that thatis probably a message they consistently send to
their kids in a way that theyparent in general, and I think it's
a good way to parent to yourpoint, right, it makes a really
great way of letting these kids learnto be themselves and guided and shown to
make a good and right choices withoutbeing told what those good and right choices
(29:06):
are. They're taught how to dothat for themselves, which is really,
really really hard to do as aparent. It's incredibly hard to do,
especially when they're screaming at ten o'clockat night. All I wanted to do
is go to bed right, teachingthem to make the choice that going to
bed is the right idea. It'snot always easy, but it's the better
choice as a parent. So Ido love that we get kind of this
(29:29):
and we get this moment. Ithink as important for us to see is
that it's it's Harry having this momentwith his son, not Jenny. That
a father can have loving, compassionateemotional connections and support for their children,
and it's not only a mother amatronly thing like it's not just the mother
that can have that connection. Ilove that Harry gets to have that connection
(29:52):
to and that it's him who Alba'strusts to have the conversation with, right.
So I love that it also showsa vulnerable male, right, because
you don't always get that in literatureor a TV or anything. So I
appreciate that she makes both the charactervulnerable and Harry sort of vulnerable as well,
(30:15):
sharing something he's never shared before withhis son to give him the confidence
to do what he needs to do. Yeah, no, I agree.
I think that's that is really beautiful, you know, like you said,
it just the fact that you know, and just to take that even one
step further. I think what itshows is it's really important to have a
(30:38):
father involved with raising a young boy, right, Like, there needs to
be that relationship, that that kindof understanding, that kind of you know,
he's beginning to kind of pass onwhat it means to be a man
and make decisions and make decisions foryourself, right, you know, I
mean, Alt, this is eleven. Now he's going off to Hogwarts.
(31:00):
You know, he's starting that processof becoming a man or in the Wizarding
World. You know, because bythe time you reach seventeen, you're considered
an adult in the wizarding world.So he's helping him begin to make important
decisions in his life, right,But like you said, not telling him
what to do, just kind oflaying out the options and being like either
(31:23):
one you pick, Like, nomatter what happens, Son, you can
make the best of any of thesesituations. But if something really matters to
you, it's okay to fight forit and to go for it. So
yeah, there's just something really specialabout that. I'm I'm agree with the
sentiment of what your said, butI think for me, it's not about
(31:44):
the importance of a father figure ora male figure in the life. But
I think it's just important to havestrong parental feelings because I think a woman
could do this, you know,any two men could do this. Like,
it doesn't to me, it doesn'tmatter the gender of it. I
just appreciate the fact that there issomeone there helping Albus learn to make the
(32:06):
right decisions from a parental standpoint,and in this particular instance, I appreciate
that it's Harry who gets to facilitatethat conversation. But I think in terms
of what it says to me asit says, it's important to have a
strong family bond. If that's amother acting as a father, if that's
a father acting as a mother,or if that's whatever. Like for me,
(32:27):
it doesn't matter who it is.It just matters that he's teaching someone
is teaching him to make the rightdecision. So yeah, I totally,
I totally agree that you know,it is I think just a good representation
of what Harry never had. Right, Like is aunt and uncle even out
even Dumbledore right cared for him,but in a very specific way, right
(32:51):
and grew to care for him,but because of sort of what he needed
to be for the Wizarding World,and grew to appreciate him as a person
who had this incredibly strong will andself control and all this stuff we've talked
about for the last however, onehundred and ninety eight episodes. But it
still wasn't really a parental figure,right. He kind of looked up to
(33:13):
him that way, but it wasn'tthe same And so you know, it
really wasn't until the Weasley has gotinvolved that he had strong parental feelings.
But at that point he's got twelveor thirteen years old and has gone ten
years without any sort of like parentalexperience. So I love that we kind
of end with both both a fullcircle of what his life started, you
(33:37):
know, where his journey started,and then also sort of the opposite of
what he never had, he gotto experience on the opposite side, right,
he never had the parental so nowhe gets to be that force.
And I love the like Ron momentwe have right here at the end of
the episode. I think it's oneof my favorite moments in the book.
(33:58):
And it also shows it Harry andJinny have not been totally honest with the
kids, and that's okay, yeah, you know, um, it's interesting
because you take it that way,and I was immediately thinking of this is
I took this as Ron being protectiveof his friend once again, and many
(34:22):
of the ways, you know,Ron has always been really protective of Harry,
and you know, they've all beenprotective of each other, but specifically,
you know, him standing up forHarry the way that he's you know
that they've done for each other.And it was a really beautiful moment because
you know, I think there isprobably this desire of Harry's just to be
(34:45):
a normal person, you know,and He's always going to get stared at
people in the Wizarding World. Peopleare always going to know who he is,
you know, because he still hasa scar on his head, you
know, Harry Potter, and he'sstill Harry Botter exactly. So I think,
to me, this was a beautifullittle moment of a friend taking care
of his friends still, and Iagree with that. Yeah, And honestly,
(35:09):
even when we get into the factthat it's the kids kind of saying,
like, why is everybody staring atyou guys? Right, Like I'm
I think that there is things thatour parents experience that we either never learn
or we don't learn until certain pointsin our life, right, And I
think that's okay. And I thinkall this shows is that the history that
(35:30):
Harry and Jenny, and Ron andHermione and everyone have kind of gone through
have created these bonds, and thekids get to experience the bonds, but
they don't necessarily know where they comefrom, and the parents are really not
interested in talking about it. AndI think that's okay, right, And
I think but them going off outsideof sort of their bubble, if you
(35:50):
will, will be the first time, like they all know, the kids
are going to learn at some point. I think they're just grateful someone else
is going to tell them and it'snot going to be them, and maybe
they can sit down and process itwith them. But I always took it
as this was just never a topicof conversation that has come up in the
families, that if it was broughtup, it was always kind of maybe
alluded to or referenced as we'll talkabout it when you're older. But the
(36:12):
kids don't seem to know who theirparents really are well. And it's interesting
because you know, in many ways, Ron, Harry and Hermione are the
savers of the You know, Harryis the pinnacle, right, I mean
you know again, they're the trinity, right, so you basically have the
father, son and Holy Spirit kindof thing almost going on here. So
(36:37):
clearly you know they're all being staredat, but Harry is the main focal
point of that. And I thinkyou're absolutely right. They are probably trying
to have their kids grow up asnormal as possible, and so knowing the
full history of what their parents areresponsible for and saving the world is not
something that you would talk about withthem, right. You don't want your
(36:59):
kids seeing your you as superheroes.You want them seeing you as mom and
dad, and later on they canlearn those stories when it's more appropriate time
to be able to kind of.So I think they also didn't want their
kids growing up a Malfoy. Yeah, right, Like they didn't want their
kids growing up knowing this amazing thingtheir parents did and incorporate that as part
(37:22):
of their own identity. Right.We talked a little bit about not judging
people from their parents. I thinkthis is the opposite side of that too,
Right. They don't want the kidsto take on their accomplishments and their
sort of stance, if you will, as part of their own identity.
Right. They want them to understandit when they're ready, but not like
they don't want it to be leveragedfor any reason. So I totally get
(37:46):
why they haven't done this, andit makes the most sense, Like I
would be shocked if the kids knewalready, But I did think it was
I think it was you. You'retotally right with Ron and his quip about
like, oh they're staring at me, I'm famous was super cute and totally
roun like. And I also thinkit shows when we talk about things that
(38:07):
we talked about almost like rewards.That was something Ron always wanted. He
wanted to be his own person.He wanted his own name that expanded beyond
being a Weasley. Right, Hewas one of like six kids and wanted
He talked about that he wanted tobe Ron and not a Weasley. And
I think this is part of thatfor him. So it almost shows that
(38:29):
he got it for himself too,right. He did something amazing that aren't
him a spot in history, whichwas what he wanted. You know,
I took it almost the opposite wayin the sense that it almost seemed like
to me that Ron was able tonow joke about wanting that like that too.
(38:49):
I think it's his humor coming throughfor sure. But I mean I
think that that was something he alwayswanted, right. I think we can
agree when we talk about was itbook two and he looked in the mirror
of Arissad and he saw himself holdingthe Quidditch trophy and really rich and popular
and stuff like that. I thinkit's his He's gotten that now, and
maybe he realized that's not what hewants, right. He wants the kids
(39:12):
in the house and the good friends, and he knows there's more to life.
So to your point, it couldbe that he has also been able
to joke about it. But it'salso nice to see that doing the right
thing can still like doing the rightthing will ultimately be the right thing for
you. Right, It'll be hard, it'll suck, it won't be glorious
(39:34):
along the way, but in thelong run, you take away something beautiful
from it, And in this case, Ron was able to let go of
his want for all of that.Yeah, no, I agree, So,
yeah, it's crazy that and Ilike the train rides off. Yeah,
the train rides off, and thenand then we uh, then we
(39:55):
remind everybody that his sk hasn't hurtin nineteen years and all as well.
You know, I think it's themost fantastic way to end this right like
that, The life has gone onlike that, we've moved past the point
(40:17):
of the scar being the focal pointfor Harry. You know, I think
it's really really beautiful. So forme, it was also a little bit
of a reminder that she had beentelling us this huge thing that Harry and
Baltimore were kind of part of thesame soul since the beginning, and I
(40:42):
didn't catch it until we were sofar into the series, so for me
it was also like a little bitof a reminder about how clever she really
is, right is that I've beenseeing. I've been telling you from the
beginning that was the thing. Attentionguys, and ends with c and it's
no longer an issue. Yeah,it's awesome. So we will have one
(41:06):
more episode that is coming out foreverybody where we're going to kind of talk
through all of our thoughts, youknow, just about the series over all
and everything, because there's just somuch the process I think with us wrapping
up the series, and as Imentioned, we'll also be talking about all
of the things that you know,people have written us emails and stuff,
the last emails that we've gotten aswell, and just you know, we've
(41:29):
the question we will answer to.We have so many people who have asked
the questions about, you know,what we're going to do next and everything
and if we'll do anything next andall of that, So we will answer
that question there forty as well.But super excited that we have finished the
epilogue and we're so excited to haveone more episode for you guys. So
(41:53):
Drea, if anybody wants to catchup with you, of course, and
you know, see what else you'vegot going on? Where can they find
you? Sure? You can findme on Twitter at pcf check or on
Instagram at Drea Kaufman and it's cM A N. You can also find
me here on the network doing therest of negotiations with John Mills as we're
talking about Star Wars. It's somuch fun, so I hope you'll join
(42:15):
me over there, and then onthe TFM network doing a few shows.
One is called the six or twoClub, which is about all of the
fanoms we love, not just one. We've actually talked through all the Harry
Potter films over there as well asFantastic Beasts, So if you're looking to
check that out. Some people haveasked about that. You could find our
conversations about that there doing Snyder cutswith John Mills, as we've talked through
(42:36):
everything Zack Snyder is directed. Youcan find me doing as well The ORB
and Larry Treks. The ORB isabout Star Trek t Space nine and Literary
Treks is about the books in thecomics of Star Trek. But thank you
so much for checking your Outpost MischiefMarriage, Join the Revolution, Join the
(43:14):
Nerd Party,
Welcome to the nerd polity. OhMiles, your outpost for the week is
(00:24):
freshly delivered, and I am justone of the hosts here Matthew rushing and
with me as she has been forthis entire journey. With only one episode
left, so that makes this thepenultimate episode of Altpost. Drea Kaufman,
Hello, Hey, how are you? Um? I am sad, happy,
(00:46):
happy to be here, sad thejourneys happened to an end. Proud
of us for making it. Yeah, I say I'm proud of us for
making it's it's been crazy. Imean, yeah, gosh, it does
feel like noween years later. Coviddidn't help that either. That last year
was like a decade, absolutely so. But we are really excited to be
(01:10):
here. Um. So one thinghappened to us, Drea. We got
an incredible email. If I'm alistener, her name is Jennifer. I'm
not gonna give her last name,but it's not even like an email.
It's a gift. It was it. She wanted to say that she wanted
to congratulate us for getting to theend of the podcast and that it's meant
(01:32):
a lot to her. Um.And so she sent us a special message
from somebody from the Harry Potter universe, and so I think we should just
play the message so that way peoplecan hear it. Yeah, I think
as long as long as no onesues us, I think we're let's play.
(01:53):
Let's play the message. Yeah,here we go action. Hello.
Hello, Hello, I'm looking fora Drea and I'm looking for a Mat.
I see you, I see youboth, Drea, Matt. Hello,
this is Tom Felton or Draco witha pair of headphones and a chain,
(02:13):
whatever you fancy. Draco and acrap disguise. Maybe that's a bit
better way of saying it. Anyway. Listen, Jennifer and I have been
speaking for months about the best wayto well to celebrate really the fact that
you've done a not only a centuryof posts, a double century, two
hundred episodes of your podcast. Congratto bloody Lations. That's fantastic. I
(02:37):
wish I'd known about it four years. Bloody hell, that's marvelous, marvelous.
I can't tell you how that muchof a difference that will have made
to a lot of people's lives.And hopefully, you know, Drea and
Matt can still stand each other forthe next four years of work. In
the meantime, thank you for yoursupport and keeping the what can they keeping
(02:58):
the Harry Potter flame alive. Feellike it's just been surging crazy ever since
it started. So marvelous to thinkthat that we are still here celebrating something
that was such a big part ofmy life and clearly yours as well.
So in the meantime, keep upthe good works so they're in for life.
If you are huffle paths, Iwill find you and convince you to
(03:21):
change. I'm kidding, yes,mischief managed based. So I don't know
about you, Drea, but Iresponded to that message by kind of freaking
out. Yeah, I definitely fanggirled out. He is so charming,
and I love how he sort ofembodies the character a little bit at the
(03:42):
end, But it is honestly justthe most kind, pleasant person that I've
ever met. And I remember whenI listened to it the very first time.
I was I was truly honored thatsomeone would go out of their way
to give us such an amazing gift. I mean, the fact that somebody
spent money on us like that,Yeah, it was incredible. So first,
(04:08):
Jennifer, just thank you so much. I mean it, it meant
the world to Dre and I andyou know, I've shown it to a
bunch of people because I'm so proudof getting that message. It just is
spangled up from several days like ohmy gosh, look what I got exactly
exactly, and so just really appreciateyou doing that for us. It truly
(04:30):
did mean the world to both ofus, and so just very excited to
have gotten to share that too withwith everybody on our post. And um,
we really do, you know,appreciate all of you listening for all
of these years. You know,Um, it's been an incredible journey for
us. And as we are atthe we have one more episode that'll be
(04:51):
coming up. We'll talk about alittle bit later on how that one's gonna
work. But you know, toto reach the end here is isn'tstounding.
And so really appreciate everybody you know, being here for us and writing us
all the emails that you have andjust it. It truly is just an
(05:13):
awesome thing, and you know,we have enjoyed every moment of it.
So you know, thank you somuch for you know, really helping to
make our day. So you know, I said I started this with I'm
happy to be you know here,I'm sad that the Attorney's almost over.
But you know, if anything,I know Matt and I are both constantly
(05:36):
astounded by all of you who camewith us, either as we recorded or
in syndication, or however you foundus. The fact is, if you're
hearing this message now, you've listenedto a lot of us. And you
know, we do this because youguys send us such great vibes, and
you guys give us such positive reviewsand great feedback, and we learn and
(06:00):
grow so much. So I knowthis has been we'll talk we'll talk about
a lot of this in the nextepisode, but this has been a pretty
incredible journey for me. And soas we started to talk here about the
epilogue, you know, it's avery short window into what happens, but
I sort of I sort of feellike, you know, our next episode
is going to be our epilogue,So you know, thank you all.
(06:23):
Yeah, you know, before weget into the epilogue, just quick remind
of all the places you can findus still. Of course, you can
find us on Twitter at Joint NerdParty, run on Facebook at Facebook dot
com, slash the nerd Party.We at the nerdparty dot com you can
go to if you want to sendus an email, which you can,
and we're going to be talking aboutthose emails that we've gotten recently, of
course in the next episode, sowe'd love to hear from you, and
(06:46):
of course also you can check usout on Instagram at the nerd Party.
But you know, Drea, Iwanted to ask you. We talked a
little bit about this last week,but I do think you know, I've
remember when the book came out andthere was kind of mixed reviews in the
sense of the way that people thoughtof, you know, the epilogue and
(07:09):
whether or not they liked it ornot, And so I just wanted to
ask you, do you like theepilogue and did you feel like it was
something that really kind of completed thebook for you. I had said at
the end of the last episode thatI missed the trio kind of experiencing that
last chapter together, right, thatwas kind of my biggest criticism, And
(07:31):
I feel like when I we recordedthat episode, it didn't really it dawned
on me that that's why I didn'tcare for that chapter, And then I
remember well in the past, ifI was just read the book all the
way through, right, I'm notreading it chapter by chapter and stopping to
absorb it. So for me,the epilogue really is what I needed in
the last chapter. Right. It'sall of the trio coming together with Jenny
(07:54):
and some new faces, and itreally gives me that closure that I did
feel like I got in the lastchapter. So I do really enjoy the
epilogue. I get why some peopledon't care for it. I get that
it feels very rosy colored and everything'sall nicely buttoned up and things haven't really
(08:15):
changed all that much. But Ithink the elements it does bring to me
from loving these characters so much ispretty fantastic. Yeah, right there with
you, honestly in that I personallythink that this is a completely legitimate way
for her to have wrapped up theseries, and I honestly think that without
(08:39):
it the series isn't complete. Ithink that you need this because all of
you know, Harry's life has beenone spent without family, right, you
know, it has been one wherehe has not had anybody to look after
(09:01):
him, and part of what wehave seen throughout the series is that he
has begun to find a family,and that family has has common the form
of the Weasleys, and now heis officially a part of that family.
(09:22):
And I think there's something really specialabout that, you know, and that
he now has his own family,you know, the thing that he didn't
have he now has, and Ithink that is really really neat to see.
I also would argue that, likeyou said, after such an emotional
(09:48):
build up, right for everything thatyou've been through through the whole series,
to get to the end of thischapter, the last chapter, and then
get to this epilo where you getto see that everything that Harry fought for,
that he gets to finally experience himself, is I think really important,
(10:13):
you know. Um. I thinkit legitimizes the struggle, right you know,
and that the struggle doesn't necessarily lastforever as large as it has been
for Harry in his life, rightyou know, um, And so that
you can overcome and move forward,and that you know, again this whole
(10:35):
process, that there are things towhich that are worth fighting for and being
willing to die for because this isthe result, right And and Harry did
that not just for himself obviously,but he did it for the entire Wizarding
World, and not just the WizardingWorld. But he did it for everyone,
(11:00):
right, Like he saved he helpssave the entire world, because otherwise
Voldemort's plan was to take over theworld, you know, like the cleanse
all the known exactly. So thisis you know, to see that there
was you know, Harry didn't dothis for the reward, but to see
that he gets the reward in theend, I think is really to me
(11:24):
is very satisfying. Without this,I think I would have been actually less
satisfied. Yeah, there's a coupleof things in here too. I think
it it sort of ends our journeywhere our journey started. Like, yes,
I know, our journey truly startedwith him in a cupboard and Hagred
chasing them down and putting a pigsail on Dudley and all that fun stuff,
right, but this is truly whereit began, right in Harry's sort
(11:48):
of feelings, like this is wherehe found his home, and so for
it to end with his kids goingto someplace that truly taught him what a
home was, I think kind ofhis full circle. Right, You're ending
where he started, right, SoI also think there's some sort of finality
in using that as the mechanism forending. The other thing I love is
(12:13):
that it's a really short couple ofpages. I don't even remember how many
pages. It's not super long,but we still get a glimpse into the
fact that these characters are still whowe know and love, even nineteen years
later, or however many years laterit's nineteen I think, right, you
(12:35):
know, Ron is still sort ofbeing Ron and he makes a handful of
jokes throughout this section, and Hermioneis still being Hermione and sort of worried
about the consequences and kind of tryingto control things, and you know,
Jenny is still Jenny, and youstill kind of get all of those characters
(12:56):
and they've just really settled into whothey are, right And I like seeing
that the characters we knew and lovedand grew up with grew up as themselves,
right, So that was pretty special, you know. I think the
other thing just just on Harry himself. You know, for him, Hogwarts
was always home because he didn't haveone, And now Harry actually has a
(13:18):
home, right, Like, hehas a life outside of Hogwarts, which
is really important for him to beable to have that, and you know
that to have his life with Jinnyin their family, and of course you
know Ron and Hermionea in him areobviously still very close. You know the
fact that, yeah they're family nowyou know, they're literally all family and
(13:43):
they're all related in this this reallybeautiful way. But I think again,
the one thing that Harry never trulyhad, which was a home outside of
Hogwarts, he now has. Andso again rewarding the character and then be
able to see the reward I thinkis beautiful and you know, I just
love it. You know, theyhave three kids, and you know that
(14:05):
the whole nineteen years later is themtraveling to platform nine every three quarters to
drop off their two oldest kids,you know, to go to Hogwarts,
and you know, their youngest daughteris all wanting to go and upset that
she can't go. Their oldest Jamesis teasing the younger brother, Albice about
how he's gonna, you know,be a Slytherin. You know. I
(14:26):
mean, it's just this great familydynamic of of of everything that Harry didn't
again get to grow up with,and yet the personalities seem like a fun
mix of the Weasley kids. Youknow, as well as Harry's own personality,
and so that is really fun tosee. And I really like the
(14:50):
all the interactions we get with youknow, Harry and his own kids.
You know, Harry seems to bea really good dad, you know,
and and Jinny a great mom,and their kids love them to death,
you know. And I love howAlvis is like, well you'll you'll write
me, right, and and thenthe oldest is like you only need like
(15:11):
one letter, I mean most peoplewill you get one letter? And I
like how Jenny's like, we wroteJames three times a week last year.
Don't believe everything he tells you,and you know it's just which is so
George, Yeah, George, right, Like it's you're right. It's a
there's little elements of all the Weasleycharacters and all really all the characters we've
known and loved throughout this right weUm. We even get sort of a
(15:37):
call back to um, I guess, a call forward if you will,
to Tonks and Remus his son TeddyTeddy. He gets a call out in
this chapter, Um, and wehave to just sort of infer the other
character that he's um written with,Victory, who we don't know who she
(16:00):
is, but she's that she doesn't, so she's got to be one of
the ether either. George's yeah,yeah, it's some other person in the
family's child, right, you justknow they're a cousin. But um,
(16:21):
yeah, we get, we get. There's picture of all these kids.
Um and I'm not going to gointo it quite yet because I think we'll
get there. But there's you know, a couple of moments too where you
talk a lot about um, You'vesaid it a couple of times now,
how Harry kind of gets this reward. And the thing I want to emphasize
about the reward he gets is justthat he gets the privilege to live life
(16:42):
the way everyone else has gotten tolive life, right, Like, he
gets to be normal, he getsto have a job and family and a
house. Like. We're not talkingabout any ostentatious reward. He's not.
He literally fought to just have theright to of life like everyone else.
Like that is his reward. Um. And I think it's beautiful that he
(17:07):
takes such a sort of humble approachto that, because he could have easily
gotten all the glory and gold andmade a big sensation out of everything that
he did and become this icon.But like he chose not to, right
because that's not Harry. Um,and that's not what Harry everone wanted,
right. Um. So you knowthat comes up right kind of near the
(17:29):
end of the chapter. But UM, I do I do love that we
get these moments where we can tellthat these friends and now family actual family
related family because you have family,but you know this is family now.
UM get the opportunity to like showhow close they've been, they're even still
close with Neville to send send themmy love. I can't send a professor
(17:56):
well and and um, you know, I think one of the things too
we see here is, um,you know the fact that all of the
kids or friends you know obviously youknow they're very close. They're all family,
they're all cousins, you know.And UM, I love the little
bit where you talk about Ron beingRon. And there's there's the great moment
(18:18):
where he talks about, you know, passing the Muggle driving test and how
Hermione had said, oh, butyou had to confund him and he was
like, no, I didn't.And then he's like to Harry, yes
I did, Yeah I did.Um yeah, He's like, I don't
want any worry about that. UmAnd and there was this really interesting moment
though, where you know, umHermione has to remind Ron, you know,
(18:41):
not to set the kids against oneanother before they even meet one another,
you know, which I thought wasa really interesting thing, because you
know, that's been what this wholebook has been about, is basically not
judging people. Basically a book byits cover, right, we can only
judge people by their actions. That'show we can judge people. You know,
how they act can tell, We'lltell us who they are. And
(19:04):
and that at that point is alla result of our good friend here from
the beginning of our episode showing upwith his new wife and their son,
who has like the perfect name,I don't know, she's so great with
names, Scorpio and them kind offeeling uncomfortable and awkward, but not angry
(19:27):
or anything like that. You justit's almost like the opposite of the last
time where Harry and his like crewwere kind of uncomfortable and you know,
Malfoy and kind of ran ran thegambit. Now it almost feels like a
turn. And to your point,what you're talking about is her minding reminding,
reminding roll on to teach the kidsto have a little humility, right,
(19:49):
like, like, don't judge abook. He might be just fine,
you don't know, well, AndI mean there's there's even that in
that little moment, you know,you have have this kind of like almost
kind of respect between them, rightyou know they're never going to be best
friends, but you get the sensethat Malfoy is not his parents right there.
(20:11):
They're probably still a little hoity toity. I was just gonna way to
describe it. That's how I alwaysthought of it. He's like kind of
hoity toity about it, yes,exactly, but that he is somebody that
you know, you get the sensethat almost like Harry and Draco could have
(20:32):
a conversation together now and it wouldn'tbe weird. You know that there is
a relationship there which is interesting,you know, if anything, I think
that would be fascinating to kind ofsee that kind of thing explored, you
know, because to me, thatwould be a really interesting thing to see
(20:52):
the way in which m forgiveness hashappened, because that's a part of this
and I think speaking to what Hermionereminds Ron of, which is no,
we don't We're not going to putlabels on people because of who their parents
were, you know, or whathappened in the past. We are going
to stop doing that. And Ithink that again, that's that whole othering
(21:17):
thing that we saw throughout all ofthese books where you get, you know,
Voldemort side specifically othering, but thenthe natural reaction, right is to
do that on the other side,right, and so that you just have
this back and forth of othering.And what what Hermione I think says here
is like, we're not going toturn our kids against one another before they
(21:41):
even meet each other. We're goingto allow them to make those determinations themselves,
and again base that on who thosepeople are, not who we think
they are just because of maybe theirhistory. And I think such, I
mean, Harry Potter could not bemore timely then that message right there here
(22:02):
at the very end, Like it'sphenomenal. Yeah, there's so much.
There's so much in that because Ithink each and every one of these characters
experienced some sort of assignment, assumptionjudgment based on their family and not themselves,
right, and some of them wereaccurate and some of them weren't.
(22:23):
Right. Like if you remember backto the very beginning. Ron is sort
of judged by Malfoy at the verybeginning for having hand me down robes and
red hair. He must be aWeasley, right, immediately got judged based
on his family. Hermione is judgedthroughout the series. We're being a mud
blood, right, and that becomesa thing. Harry is judged because his
(22:48):
parents and died and he became thislike chosen One. Malfoy has the status
with his dad as a death eater, right, Like, all of these
characters had some sort of assignment ofjudgment based on who their family was,
And so I think it's really wisethat Hermione cautions against continuing that, even
(23:10):
if it's easy, even if itturns out to be right, wait and
let the kids figure out how tomake that assessment and make that judgment for
themselves. And I think that's sucha powerful message for parents to send to
their kids nowadays, Right, especiallyin the day of these days where we
get a lot of bullying going on, it's important to remember to teach your
kids to be kind and to reservejudgment until you can judge someone's actions and
(23:36):
not their person. Right, Youractions a culmination of your actions. Ultimately
decide your character, so you don'teven really need a judge character. The
actions will speak enough for that.So I think it is a subtle but
powerful message that kind of happens hereat the end, and I think it
becomes really apparent when Harry and Jenny'ssort of last kid, Um quietly whispers
(24:03):
to Harry before he boards the trainbecause he is genuinely afraid of the sorting
hat well, and and it iskind of beautiful in some ways, like
he is afraid of being a Slytherin. He's afraid of what that might mean.
And I love that. You know. Harry gets down, you know,
on his knee, and he explainsto his son, Look, you
(24:26):
know, you're named after two ofthe most important and incredibly brave men that
Harry knew, you know, AlbusDumbledore and several Snape and one was a
Slytherin. And so it's not aboutwhat house you're in. It it's again,
it's about how you act. It'sabout your actions. It all comes
(24:49):
down to um who you show yourselfto be, you know, And and
that's something that Dumbledore remember very keenon telling Harry in the first place.
You know, it is it isour actions that prove who we are.
So the beauty of saying, look, it doesn't really matter, but if
it matters that much to you,And this is what I thought was kind
(25:10):
of beautiful is that this is somethingthat Harry has not told any of his
other kids before, which is thathe actually had an impact on where the
sorting hat put him. The sortinghat takes into account what you want and
what matters to you, and thatif it really matters to you that much,
the sorting Hat's going to take thatinto account. And he's just shocked.
(25:36):
He's like, wait really, andhe's like, yeah, it did
for me. And I think there'ssuch a beauty for that too, you
know. And what I kind ofwas thinking about was just how Harry is
really setting up his kids and specificallyAlbs for success. Like, the choices
(25:59):
that you're going to make in yourlife are going to make you who you're
going to be. And so youcan start by making good choices, or
you can start by making not sogood choices, right, And if something's
really important to you, it's worthfighting for, right like, And so
I just that was really something thatstruck with me or stuck with me here
(26:25):
in this chapter and this little epiloguewas just that kind of message. And
um, I just really liked whatHarry had to say to his son,
you know. And again I likethat Harry is taking into account the emotional
stability of his child, right likeum, you know, and speaking to
(26:47):
him in a way that he canunderstand, and like taking in to account
his feelings and like the again,it's the very thing that Harry never had.
Nobody cared about Harry or what hethought or any of that stuff,
right, and Harry's making sure itdoesn't repeat the mistakes of the past that
he suffered from. And so tome, and it's just really this whole
little section here where he's talking toAlbus is just so sweet and it's such
(27:11):
good parenting, right, like you'relistening to your kid, you're helping them
understand the world, and it wasjust kind of beautiful. Well, and
he doesn't tell him the right answer, He doesn't tell him what he should
do. He doesn't say, youknow, it's okay, you'll be a
Gryffindor, or you can choose Gryffindor. He says, if the choice is
important to you, you know,you can make that choice, right he
(27:37):
lets him, he empowers him todo what he thinks is right for himself,
right. And I think the otherthing that's beautiful about that is the
fact that a lot of the bookshave painted the different houses sort of against
each other. Surprisingly, what I'vereally noticed on this rate is we got
almost no Hufflepuff at all throughout anyof these books. We get a small
(27:59):
characters here and there, but yeah, and we get a small amount of
raven Cloth, But really it's Grffinderand Slytherin that we have the most interaction
with throughout the series. But andit's almost, you know, Gryffindor is
the good guys and Slytherin out ofthe bad guys, just because of who
we know has been associated with thathouse. Right. But I think what's
interesting here is he's almost washing thataway too and saying like they're not all
(28:23):
bad. Like, just because yougo to Slytherin doesn't mean that it's going
to make you a bad person.That comes with other choices associated with your
life, not just which house youget assigned to. Right, There is
no inherent good and bad. It'sthe choices we make and who we choose
to be in our life that determinesthat for us, and I think that's
(28:44):
a subtle way of showing that thatis probably a message they consistently send to
their kids in a way that theyparent in general, and I think it's
a good way to parent to yourpoint, right, it makes a really
great way of letting these kids learnto be themselves and guided and shown to
make a good and right choices withoutbeing told what those good and right choices
(29:06):
are. They're taught how to dothat for themselves, which is really,
really really hard to do as aparent. It's incredibly hard to do,
especially when they're screaming at ten o'clockat night. All I wanted to do
is go to bed right, teachingthem to make the choice that going to
bed is the right idea. It'snot always easy, but it's the better
choice as a parent. So Ido love that we get kind of this
(29:29):
and we get this moment. Ithink as important for us to see is
that it's it's Harry having this momentwith his son, not Jenny. That
a father can have loving, compassionateemotional connections and support for their children,
and it's not only a mother amatronly thing like it's not just the mother
that can have that connection. Ilove that Harry gets to have that connection
(29:52):
to and that it's him who Alba'strusts to have the conversation with, right.
So I love that it also showsa vulnerable male, right, because
you don't always get that in literatureor a TV or anything. So I
appreciate that she makes both the charactervulnerable and Harry sort of vulnerable as well,
(30:15):
sharing something he's never shared before withhis son to give him the confidence
to do what he needs to do. Yeah, no, I agree.
I think that's that is really beautiful, you know, like you said,
it just the fact that you know, and just to take that even one
step further. I think what itshows is it's really important to have a
(30:38):
father involved with raising a young boy, right, Like, there needs to
be that relationship, that that kindof understanding, that kind of you know,
he's beginning to kind of pass onwhat it means to be a man
and make decisions and make decisions foryourself, right, you know, I
mean, Alt, this is eleven. Now he's going off to Hogwarts.
(31:00):
You know, he's starting that processof becoming a man or in the Wizarding
World. You know, because bythe time you reach seventeen, you're considered
an adult in the wizarding world.So he's helping him begin to make important
decisions in his life, right,But like you said, not telling him
what to do, just kind oflaying out the options and being like either
(31:23):
one you pick, Like, nomatter what happens, Son, you can
make the best of any of thesesituations. But if something really matters to
you, it's okay to fight forit and to go for it. So
yeah, there's just something really specialabout that. I'm I'm agree with the
sentiment of what your said, butI think for me, it's not about
(31:44):
the importance of a father figure ora male figure in the life. But
I think it's just important to havestrong parental feelings because I think a woman
could do this, you know,any two men could do this. Like,
it doesn't to me, it doesn'tmatter the gender of it. I
just appreciate the fact that there issomeone there helping Albus learn to make the
(32:06):
right decisions from a parental standpoint,and in this particular instance, I appreciate
that it's Harry who gets to facilitatethat conversation. But I think in terms
of what it says to me asit says, it's important to have a
strong family bond. If that's amother acting as a father, if that's
a father acting as a mother,or if that's whatever. Like for me,
(32:27):
it doesn't matter who it is.It just matters that he's teaching someone
is teaching him to make the rightdecision. So yeah, I totally,
I totally agree that you know,it is I think just a good representation
of what Harry never had. Right, Like is aunt and uncle even out
even Dumbledore right cared for him,but in a very specific way, right
(32:51):
and grew to care for him,but because of sort of what he needed
to be for the Wizarding World,and grew to appreciate him as a person
who had this incredibly strong will andself control and all this stuff we've talked
about for the last however, onehundred and ninety eight episodes. But it
still wasn't really a parental figure,right. He kind of looked up to
(33:13):
him that way, but it wasn'tthe same And so you know, it
really wasn't until the Weasley has gotinvolved that he had strong parental feelings.
But at that point he's got twelveor thirteen years old and has gone ten
years without any sort of like parentalexperience. So I love that we kind
of end with both both a fullcircle of what his life started, you
(33:37):
know, where his journey started,and then also sort of the opposite of
what he never had, he gotto experience on the opposite side, right,
he never had the parental so nowhe gets to be that force.
And I love the like Ron momentwe have right here at the end of
the episode. I think it's oneof my favorite moments in the book.
(33:58):
And it also shows it Harry andJinny have not been totally honest with the
kids, and that's okay, yeah, you know, um, it's interesting
because you take it that way,and I was immediately thinking of this is
I took this as Ron being protectiveof his friend once again, and many
(34:22):
of the ways, you know,Ron has always been really protective of Harry,
and you know, they've all beenprotective of each other, but specifically,
you know, him standing up forHarry the way that he's you know
that they've done for each other.And it was a really beautiful moment because
you know, I think there isprobably this desire of Harry's just to be
(34:45):
a normal person, you know,and He's always going to get stared at
people in the Wizarding World. Peopleare always going to know who he is,
you know, because he still hasa scar on his head, you
know, Harry Potter, and he'sstill Harry Botter exactly. So I think,
to me, this was a beautifullittle moment of a friend taking care
of his friends still, and Iagree with that. Yeah, And honestly,
(35:09):
even when we get into the factthat it's the kids kind of saying,
like, why is everybody staring atyou guys? Right, Like I'm
I think that there is things thatour parents experience that we either never learn
or we don't learn until certain pointsin our life, right, And I
think that's okay. And I thinkall this shows is that the history that
(35:30):
Harry and Jenny, and Ron andHermione and everyone have kind of gone through
have created these bonds, and thekids get to experience the bonds, but
they don't necessarily know where they comefrom, and the parents are really not
interested in talking about it. AndI think that's okay, right, And
I think but them going off outsideof sort of their bubble, if you
(35:50):
will, will be the first time, like they all know, the kids
are going to learn at some point. I think they're just grateful someone else
is going to tell them and it'snot going to be them, and maybe
they can sit down and process itwith them. But I always took it
as this was just never a topicof conversation that has come up in the
families, that if it was broughtup, it was always kind of maybe
alluded to or referenced as we'll talkabout it when you're older. But the
(36:12):
kids don't seem to know who theirparents really are well. And it's interesting
because you know, in many ways, Ron, Harry and Hermione are the
savers of the You know, Harryis the pinnacle, right, I mean
you know again, they're the trinity, right, so you basically have the
father, son and Holy Spirit kindof thing almost going on here. So
(36:37):
clearly you know they're all being staredat, but Harry is the main focal
point of that. And I thinkyou're absolutely right. They are probably trying
to have their kids grow up asnormal as possible, and so knowing the
full history of what their parents areresponsible for and saving the world is not
something that you would talk about withthem, right. You don't want your
(36:59):
kids seeing your you as superheroes.You want them seeing you as mom and
dad, and later on they canlearn those stories when it's more appropriate time
to be able to kind of.So I think they also didn't want their
kids growing up a Malfoy. Yeah, right, Like they didn't want their
kids growing up knowing this amazing thingtheir parents did and incorporate that as part
(37:22):
of their own identity. Right.We talked a little bit about not judging
people from their parents. I thinkthis is the opposite side of that too,
Right. They don't want the kidsto take on their accomplishments and their
sort of stance, if you will, as part of their own identity.
Right. They want them to understandit when they're ready, but not like
they don't want it to be leveragedfor any reason. So I totally get
(37:46):
why they haven't done this, andit makes the most sense, Like I
would be shocked if the kids knewalready, But I did think it was
I think it was you. You'retotally right with Ron and his quip about
like, oh they're staring at me, I'm famous was super cute and totally
roun like. And I also thinkit shows when we talk about things that
(38:07):
we talked about almost like rewards.That was something Ron always wanted. He
wanted to be his own person.He wanted his own name that expanded beyond
being a Weasley. Right, Hewas one of like six kids and wanted
He talked about that he wanted tobe Ron and not a Weasley. And
I think this is part of thatfor him. So it almost shows that
(38:29):
he got it for himself too,right. He did something amazing that aren't
him a spot in history, whichwas what he wanted. You know,
I took it almost the opposite wayin the sense that it almost seemed like
to me that Ron was able tonow joke about wanting that like that too.
(38:49):
I think it's his humor coming throughfor sure. But I mean I
think that that was something he alwayswanted, right. I think we can
agree when we talk about was itbook two and he looked in the mirror
of Arissad and he saw himself holdingthe Quidditch trophy and really rich and popular
and stuff like that. I thinkit's his He's gotten that now, and
maybe he realized that's not what hewants, right. He wants the kids
(39:12):
in the house and the good friends, and he knows there's more to life.
So to your point, it couldbe that he has also been able
to joke about it. But it'salso nice to see that doing the right
thing can still like doing the rightthing will ultimately be the right thing for
you. Right, It'll be hard, it'll suck, it won't be glorious
(39:34):
along the way, but in thelong run, you take away something beautiful
from it, And in this case, Ron was able to let go of
his want for all of that.Yeah, no, I agree, So,
yeah, it's crazy that and Ilike the train rides off. Yeah,
the train rides off, and thenand then we uh, then we
(39:55):
remind everybody that his sk hasn't hurtin nineteen years and all as well.
You know, I think it's themost fantastic way to end this right like
that, The life has gone onlike that, we've moved past the point
(40:17):
of the scar being the focal pointfor Harry. You know, I think
it's really really beautiful. So forme, it was also a little bit
of a reminder that she had beentelling us this huge thing that Harry and
Baltimore were kind of part of thesame soul since the beginning, and I
(40:42):
didn't catch it until we were sofar into the series, so for me
it was also like a little bitof a reminder about how clever she really
is, right is that I've beenseeing. I've been telling you from the
beginning that was the thing. Attentionguys, and ends with c and it's
no longer an issue. Yeah,it's awesome. So we will have one
(41:06):
more episode that is coming out foreverybody where we're going to kind of talk
through all of our thoughts, youknow, just about the series over all
and everything, because there's just somuch the process I think with us wrapping
up the series, and as Imentioned, we'll also be talking about all
of the things that you know,people have written us emails and stuff,
the last emails that we've gotten aswell, and just you know, we've
(41:29):
the question we will answer to.We have so many people who have asked
the questions about, you know,what we're going to do next and everything
and if we'll do anything next andall of that, So we will answer
that question there forty as well.But super excited that we have finished the
epilogue and we're so excited to haveone more episode for you guys. So
(41:53):
Drea, if anybody wants to catchup with you, of course, and
you know, see what else you'vegot going on? Where can they find
you? Sure? You can findme on Twitter at pcf check or on
Instagram at Drea Kaufman and it's cM A N. You can also find
me here on the network doing therest of negotiations with John Mills as we're
talking about Star Wars. It's somuch fun, so I hope you'll join
(42:15):
me over there, and then onthe TFM network doing a few shows.
One is called the six or twoClub, which is about all of the
fanoms we love, not just one. We've actually talked through all the Harry
Potter films over there as well asFantastic Beasts, So if you're looking to
check that out. Some people haveasked about that. You could find our
conversations about that there doing Snyder cutswith John Mills, as we've talked through
(42:36):
everything Zack Snyder is directed. Youcan find me doing as well The ORB
and Larry Treks. The ORB isabout Star Trek t Space nine and Literary
Treks is about the books in thecomics of Star Trek. But thank you
so much for checking your Outpost MischiefMarriage, Join the Revolution, Join the
(43:14):
Nerd Party,
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