OXÍGENO # 67 - Mujeres que mueven montañas, pioneros del Annapurna y grandes viajes

En este nuevo episodio del podcast de Oxígeno hablamos con Begoña Santos Olmedo de mujeres que ascienden montañas físicas y espirituales. Además, celebramos con Jordi Pons el 50 aniversario del primer ochomil español. Y vuelven las Jornadas Iati de los Grandes Viajes, un evento de lo más inspirador que nos presenta Pablo Strubell. 
Podcast Oxígeno, con Elena Moro y Jorge Jiménez Ríos. 

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Oxygen, the podcast of the passionateauthors Hello oxygenated oxygenates. We begin a

(00:27):
new podcast of the sound of adventure, a program in which the protagonist is
going to be the mountain in capitals, which brings us the values that this
mountain teaches, which is a placefor all, inclusive that imposes no limits,
neither for age nor for gender,It only imposes the obvious natural physical
barriers that can be overcome with effortand passion. The mountain is a safe

(00:52):
place, of coexistence and solidarity thatinspires us to seek new challenges and adventures,
inspires us to overcome us and showsus that it can also be an
engine to change lives those values ofthe mountain that have experienced and shared sure
the guests that today we have inpodcast Jorge Jiménez Hello, comrade, tell
us who we will have in today' s program Elena Hello. Listeners,

(01:17):
for it is very nice words thateffectively share all our guests that good are
going to take us on great trips, to great mountains and also to meet
great women. You guys. Webring a program full of memories, but
also of guests to the future.We have with us the legendary Geordi and
Pons, with whom we celebrate thefifty years of the first eight thousand Spanish,

(01:37):
also Begoña Santos, author of thebook Newly published, Women who move
mountains and we are going to travelall over the world and in all possible
ways, with Pablo Struel and hisdays of great trips welcome to the sound
of adventure. Great stories of yesterdayand today. Akilda Ashimi has a dream

(02:10):
to climb mountains in her country,Afghanistan, they are only reserved for men,
but she will prove that it isnot so. Estephan and Bessons is
a mountain guide and for years rescuesmigrants who try to cross the Italian Franco
border clandestinely through the Alps and RosarioClemente remembers her ninety- five years when

(02:30):
she crossed as a child other greatmountains, the Pyrenees during the Spanish Civil
War. It' s three ofthe book' s eight real stories.
Women climbing mountains of Begoña Santa Olmedo, who subjectively relates the experiences of eight
mountain women, scientists, activists,women living in rural environments and who have

(02:53):
the mountain as a physical and emotionalplace, their common place with us in
the podcast to Begoña to tell usabout these women and their stories and also
their own Hello Begoña. How areyou? Hi, Elena Good morning.
Well, then, thank you forbeing with us by telling us here firsthand

(03:19):
these amazing stories that you have toldin that book. First, how do
you come up with the idea oftelling these stories and why good in the
book, as you said women movingmountains. I collect eight real stories of
women who have as a backdrop thescenery of a mountain and who, in

(03:42):
addition, face the metaphorical mountains.Initially I knew I wanted to do something
about the mountain, but it tookme a while to shape it. At
first I looked for stories that couldbe from women, etcetera. But in
the end I decanted myself for thestories of women, because it seemed to

(04:08):
me that they were more in thebackground and that they had been a little
invisible. And for that reason,I began to look for stories that also
left the pure sporting arena, inwhich many times these stories are concentrated and
that were related to the mountain,but that went beyond what mountaineering was.

(04:30):
And how it got here. Howdid you get to those women? How
you got here, because they're all, well, all but one
but a contemporary woman, they're real. How did you get to
them by investigating through third parties alittle chance, tell us? Well,

(04:54):
this has been almost the hardest partof the book to find the women and
find the stories that seemed interesting tome. So, well, sometimes I
already had an idea of stories Iwanted to tell, and what I was
doing was looking for someone who couldtell me something specific, for example,
about the issue of migrants crossing theAlps to go from Italy to France.

(05:19):
That was something I wanted to knowmore that I wanted to investigate. So,
what I did was to look forassociations that were in the area and
from there I got to the protagonistof the story. In other cases,
such as that of Rosario Clemente,who commented that she is now ninety-
five years old and that she wentthrough the Pyrenees when she was ten fleeing

(05:44):
the war, because she met herthrough a documentary that I recommend is called
gurus, in which she appeared amongmany other people explaining that part of her
life. And it caught my attention, because just as many people had memories
of the war, well those whoare still alive, so many of them.

(06:08):
However, she was the only onewho made an explicit mention of what
was the crossing through the Pyrenees,crossing the Pyrenees to get safe. Imagine
when you were ten, how youshould be facing those physical mountains and running
away, as well as a child' s war. Here the Hashimi,

(06:31):
Good Rosary Clemente, this woman,Here the Hashimi Stefan and Besson Flower Cuenca,
Bettan, Davis, Kenain A Jouand Maria José Blanco. All contemporary,
as I mentioned before, except one, the story of Anne Lister,
who lived between the 18th and 19thcenturies, because that temporary jump with Ann
Leaster tells us a little bit aboutthe story. If you can do a

(06:55):
synopsis of the Leaser' s riverand why you were interested, because of
course, a little thread. Theyall live, they' re alive,
except Ann Yes. Yeah, well. It was actually the first story I
wrote, that I didn' tyet have the idea that this was going
to be a book. Then,just one day in the Pyrenees, because

(07:21):
we saw in the background the vineand bad and then, well, they
told me that there was a hillcalled Lady Leaster' s colt and I
decided to start investigating about it.Then I found that she was a super
special personality. For starters, shewas never Lady Leaster, but it was

(07:44):
Miss Liaster why, because she nevermarried, or at least never married a
man because she was a lesbian.Then she decided she didn' t want
to marry, because she didn't want to live with a man without
love. And then, finally,he lived with another woman. She was

(08:05):
a person with a lot of character, a person who traveled a lot,
she was an explorer. She wasalso the first woman to climb the lost
mountain And well, the truth isthat her life was exciting to me.
She was an English landowner who basicallydedicated himself to traveling many parts of Europe

(08:28):
and also to climbing mountains. So, well, pulling the thread, I
came to this story that seems extraordinaryto me and then you decided to continue
with the contemporary ones, with thatclosest relationship and if you were able to

(08:50):
talk, I imagine with all ofthem, in fact, tell their clear
stories exactly. In fact, whatI was interested in, above all,
was telling the stories from his pointof view. So what I was doing
was first once I located the personI thought I could tell a story,
I explained the project to them andfrom there we had a series of interviews.

(09:13):
So I think what I have,especially the book I' ve written,
is that I always try to putmyself in the skin of the protagonists.
It' s like they' recounting part of their lives. In
this sense, he is quite farfrom what journalism is. It is not
something a text written from the outsideor with different points of view that in

(09:35):
the end give you an overview,but it is a text written from the
subjectivity of them is the text thatthey would have written. Yes, of
course, that' s also puttingyourself in her skin and conveying how I
imagine it has also been a complicatedstyle exercise, beautiful at the same time,

(09:58):
very nice, but difficult also toget into the characters, as well
as an actress when playing different characters, because how you interpret Rosario that is
ninety- five years old and Idon' t know this girl of wins
that I don' t know howmany years old, she is thirty and

(10:22):
few and with cultures and a differentenvironment and environment, not so different altogether
the most complicated. Maybe it's been pretty complicated, but, well,
not so much. In fact,what I have tried to do is,
for example, to maintain some ofyour expressions, some of your words.
I have also tried to keep,so that is to say, to
translate in some way how they are, so that has to do with language,

(10:46):
with rhythm, with how you expressthings depending on who you are then.
Well, it has also been aprocess of mutual knowledge of them towards
me that in the beginning, becausethey have given that confidence to get me
into their lives and then, littleby little, because I have been creating
a relationship that is very beautiful.And although I don' t know everyone

(11:07):
personally because I started writing the book, because when we were still in the
pandemic, but to several of themI have known them personally, and to
the others, because I hope toknow them, because soon hear it seems
incredible to me. Of course theyhave been able to read the book Good

(11:28):
that gi translated and what has beentheir feeling, their feedback, how it
is said now that they liked theway you told their story. Yeah,
well, I, before I publishedit, already did that work with them,
from writing their story and then theysaw it and they would give me

(11:52):
because they would tell me, becausemaybe this was not so, or this
emphasizes this or writes adds this,then let' s say that it was
a joint work and I the storiesI published, they already knew them and
they agreed with them. Okay,then. In the case of English speakers,
what I have done has basically beento translate it automatically and then review

(12:18):
it myself and well, the othersall speak Spanish, even Estefan, who
is French, but also speaks Spanish. Then it has been quite curious because
one of them, for example,flower Cuenca. I was just saying,
well, this is a girl,who' s the first Peruvian woman to
go up to the Alcados and writeher story. Also because I liked the

(12:39):
perspective she had with regard to themountains, and it is a worldview in
which for her, as a Peruvianand a woman from a rural area,
she considered the mountains as appus,not as spirits. Then, how she
faces climbing a mountain like the Cados, because it has a different nuance from

(13:03):
most of the Western mountaineers. Well, she wrote as a subalcados and she
told me that it was more beautifulas I had written it, that even
what she could tell no and thatshe had really already picked up better than

(13:24):
her with her own words that ascension. So, in general, because the
truth is that they are very happyand not only with their history, but
with being their story collected in abook of eight stories of women who are
really relevant and whose stories are worthknowing. Well, there' s no

(13:48):
better criticism than the protagonist who toldyou those words, who told it better
than she could have done it.And I know all the stories are amazing
ordinary, but there' s onethat has marked you in a special way
that has removed you. Yeah,see, all the stories have made me

(14:09):
learn something totally new, I mean, they' ve made me put myself
in a very different context and situationthan my life and so, well,
it' s been like living throughthem living these different lives. I think
the story that struck me the mostat first was that of Rosario, because

(14:31):
Rosario is this woman who during herten years, had to flee the war
through the Pyrenees and, well,from that she stayed for a while in
France. But then his father followedhis father, who was fighting in the
war because he was a carabinieri,because he was still in Spain. Then

(14:52):
she came back to Spain. Anyway, I' m not gonna gut the
story, but well, it's a very nice war story and also
a love story between a father anda daughter. And it' s a
hard, hard story. But atthe same time I count it in a
positive way, because Rosario is awoman who, despite everything that happened to

(15:13):
her, she was happy. Shewas able to adapt and see the good
things of life to overcome that difficultsituation and yet and all enjoy life and
be happy. And today, ninety- five years old, she' s
still a happy woman. Unbelievable Nota story. Well, then, after

(15:41):
these eight stories, this little summaryor advance better said than future readers are
going to find. I' msure he does buy it in that book
to read all the stories. Indetail talk a little bit about you begogne
how a biochemistry that is working ina laboratory to work on development cooperation ends,

(16:06):
because for twenty years you have beenworking in the field of international migration.
Right, yeah, well. I, the truth is that I really
liked the sciences and then I studiedbiochemistry because I was passionate, really,
I was passionate about proteins to bemore concrete. But then, when I
thought about working, because the truth, the fact that I was in a

(16:30):
lab with an aden tube in myhands all day, because it wasn'
t saying what I had in mind, I liked to travel, I liked
to know other things. So,well, I started working on international cooperation,
and in three or four years I' ve already devoted myself to international
migration, which is what I've been working on for the last twenty

(16:55):
years. As you' re saying, I don' t think one thing
is at odds with another. Itis not true that many times writers.
Writers come from more profiles of journalism, philology or language- related issues,
but also good in the interests ofpeople who may have been engaged in other
areas. There' s also literature. Literature I think reaches everyone, regardless

(17:18):
of who you are, what profileyou have, because it' s something
that touches hearts and we' reall human and I, well, I
' ve always read a lot,since I was little and I' ve
always wanted to write what' sgoing on, that well, I'
ve been dedicating myself to these otherthings and I haven' t been able

(17:40):
to until now. The proteins gotin there a little bit and in your
way you would have said well,the literature is true, it is universal,
it touches us all and also themountains, because it is also fond
of the mountain. Yes, yes, yes, I' m very fond.
I' m not a big mountaineer. I have to say it too.
I' m not a woman ofthese, there I am of anything.

(18:02):
I' m not that tough,but I love mountains. I am
of Donosty and good there has alwaysbeen a great hobby to the mountain,
and I since I was little,for I have gone with my parents,
with my brother, then with myfriends. I' ve always been to
the mountain. And I enjoy alot. It seems to me that it

(18:22):
is an area of peace and relaxationin which each one too, as we
put ourselves in our place, wedo not realize the little ones that we
are. We realize that, inthe end, because our lives have to
be seen in perspective Yes? Thatone? Yeah? That one? Yeah?
Begoña how well said. Well,then, women who move mountains edited
by the uneven bookstore that, bythe way, a work that was finalist

(18:45):
of the Prizes level of literature twothousand twenty- three, where we can
get the book anywhere, in anybookstore, apart from clear difference and you
have seen that I do advertising inthe competition, competition between quotation marks,

(19:06):
because they are friends where I imaginemost also on the Internet. Tell us
if people can get the book.Well, the book can go to the
bookstores. In some bookstores they'll have it, in others they might
have to ask. But let's go in principle. It is distributed
in all bookstores and then, obviously, behind the web page of unevenness by

(19:27):
Amazon and online, because of theusual ways. In other words, on
June 2nd you will be in Madridsigning copies at the book fair. Yes,
exactly this is the unevenness booth onSunday day two out of seven nine
in the afternoon. So if anyone, then they want to stop by to

(19:49):
sign the book, because it wasvery enchanted, that' s good.
Good, well, I' llsee if I get there, because this
weekend I' m in Santander,but I think at nine I can get
there directly to the retreat, whichis my house. Okay. Thank you
very much, Begoña, that nothing, very successful with this book. Thank

(20:10):
you for telling these women' sstories. Thank you very much, because
it really is an inspiration and youhave to know them. So, well,
I hope to see you soon.Thank you so much for the space
and for the conversation and greetings tothe listeners. Good morning, thank you,

(20:30):
good oxygen. The podcast of theauthor' s passionate, The Sound
of Adventures, April 29, 1970. George Ponts, I am Manuel Anglada

(20:55):
and Emily Sevis, with more thanthirty degrees below zero and without using supplementary
oxygen, were taking the last stepsto the top of the Anapurna, which
would be the first eight thousand forour mountaineering and bequeathing a brilliant display of
creativity and beauty in the Himalayas.It is now fifty years of this milestone
of adventure that we have wanted toremember and celebrate with one of its protagonists,

(21:17):
which is at the same time oneof the most legendary mountaineers of all
that we have known. Jordi PonsHello Hi Jerdiy welcome to our podcast.
Thank you so much for giving usthis little moment to commemorate this great adventure
of nine hundred and seventy- four. Jordi very well, because here I
am to answer what you wish toknow. Well, we want to know

(21:41):
how one feels about all the timeafter that adventure. I don' t
know if you feel proud nostalgia,a mixture of both. How it has
also been to share this celebration withcybis or with anglove, to remember together
that tremendous adventure of the seventies.Well, they' re all memories.

(22:03):
It' s like I' mmaking a film now that the title is
when memories think more than hopes,and this is what I could apply to
the Napurna, which wasn' tthe same fifty years ago, with full
powers, and now that we haveto live a little bit of memories.

(22:23):
But I have to say that thecomrades who remained of that expedition, because
we continue to live with intensity theadventure of having achieved a summit of eight
thousand meters, but to have doneso in a way. I would say
that of traditional mountaineering, which isto climb first a mountain of the Andes

(22:49):
of six zero meters, then inthe Hindukush another mountain of seven zero and
finally that of Lannapurna, this ofeight thousand. Which means that my trajectory
falls within what we might call normalor traditional pinism, and we are proud

(23:11):
to have achieved this in this middleof mountaineering, one step after another to
conquer a Himalayan summit. And onething that is curious, already speaking of
traditional alpitism and modern pyrism, thatwe will enter a little deeper, perhaps
later. But one thing that fascinatesme from this first story of how you

(23:33):
tell it, is that you werealone on the mountain, which at that
time was obviously normal. Not manypermits are granted, but nowadays it is
almost unthinkable to approach the mapurna,the evers or elcadas and that there are
no waves of climbers and mountaineers inthe area fuck. It must be nice
to be there, in that nature, in those mountains at that time and

(23:55):
to feel isolated is painted alien tothe rest of the world, which perhaps
today in those great eight thousand cannotbe enjoyed. You can' t find
maybe those emotions unless you' regoing to leave different routes, very complicated
routes on other tracks, no jordiThis has changed quite a bit. What
approaching the Himalayas is worth a thousandhas changed a lot, true well,

(24:17):
considering that Nepal' s oil isthe mountains. I am not surprised that,
after so many years, the governmenthas decided to stop giving a permit
to spring and another in the autumn, being able to earn money, giving

(24:38):
permission to all the commercial expeditions,to all the agencies to convert the mountains
of Nepal, especially the management luand the everés into a circus me in
my talks that I usually give manytimes at the end of the talk,

(25:03):
at the end of the screening.I always say that commercial expeditions have brought
all this disruption in the detriment oftraditional mountaineering. When I remember with my
colleagues Anglada and Sibis that after fiftyyears we continue to see each other every

(25:27):
week, we continue to maintain thesame friendship and the same ties in detriment
of the commercial expeditions that people usuallyfind at the airport, at the meeting
coin they greet, make the expeditionwith summit or without summit, and then

(25:49):
never again. It was known tome that this has no value whatsoever,
because it is only based on havingfive or sixty thousand dollars to let you
climb the mountain, without any memorythat allows, after so many years,
to keep alive the flame of ascension, because, you stop having contact with

(26:14):
all those people with whom you havespent a couple of months, we keep
alive the flame of the Missad.Thanks not only to the Napurna, but
also to having participated in the Andes, in the Hinduush, in the same
Eberese of the year eighty- two, with Sibis and Conanglada. It means

(26:38):
that all this wealth of memories arethose that allow and give value to our
sport. The rest is a circusI' m not interested in. Every
day I open the mail, Irealize the two or three hundred people caught

(26:59):
by a rope passing hours and hours, because there is no way to cross
the Hillary spur line to reach thesummit. This is not mountaineering, because
you are right, and also,maybe part of the problem, well,
yes, of the problem, butof the blame we also have the media

(27:22):
in general, because well, maybewe have to stop calling this mountaineering or
mountaineering, that is, as Besnersaid, not that high tourism, to
distinguish it from what is true mountaineering, from what is true mountaineering. And
that is also part of our work. If we say well, we may
have to stop talking in this specializedmagazine about all that kind of stuff,
because in the end, it's not what we do, it'
s not mountaineering, it' snot mountaineering, it' s another kind

(27:47):
of activity that doesn' t seembad to us. Nor, on the
other hand, because good allows thedevelopment of agencies and business. There'
s in Nepan and those mountains.But, well, part of it,
obviously, we don' t talkabout it. We don' t have
to talk about what pinit is about, because as you said, you weren
' t a little tied to thatone by calling that old school, that

(28:07):
traditional pyrism, that ties were beingforged, as you say, because it
' s not the same thing.Go to the first six zero, not
you and angled or the first sevenzero, get to know your partner,
get to know his abilities, howhe reacts to the dangers in a complicated
situation that what you say you don' t meet a guy at the airport.
Go make yourself an 8, 000, which is that you don'
t even know how it is,or what it does how or how to

(28:29):
face the mountain. Not then isit directly another type of activity. And
another very curious thing that I loveabout your expedition. Well, it'
s just curious, it' sjust what you had to do in your
day. Maybe it' s notlike you were in oxygen. Today,
that so many bottles of oxygen accumulatethis kind of expeditions you in the seventies,
not long after mesner and these thingsyou were in oxygen at eight zero
and of course this, this causescertain problems. The altitude. Not like

(28:53):
facing that terrible cold that you haveof just thirty- eight degrees, but
also facing those delusions that you hadduring the ascension. It was a bet
on that, too, but maybenot. It just wasn' t a
bet, it wasn' t yourway of understanding the mountain. Yes,
but keep in mind that oxygen alsohas its limits, because, for example,

(29:15):
the person who pays a shierpa ortwo to carry a few bottles of
oxygen based on being waiting many hoursin the queue to peak, this oxygen
also ends and then the pulmonary orbrain edemas are produced. Which means that

(29:37):
the big problem mixes the ease ofmaking the summit with oxygen and massification.
And this has no solution, becausewe, well let me tell you one
thing. For example, in theInternational Federation of which I am an honorary
member, the IAU recommended that thecountries that were going to its mountaineers make

(30:07):
summits that only make known the summitof those who were doing without oxygen,
because oxygen does not stop being adoping, it does not stop being an
aid that allows in an artificial wayto do something that should be done simply

(30:29):
with an adequate acclimatization. I mean, oxygen doesn' t solve everything either.
But it is also possible that themillionaire who goes to the ebrès no
longer only carries one or two bottlesof oxygen with a sherpad, but can
be allowed to climb with three orfour sherpas and each of them carry bottles

(30:49):
of oxygen. And all this isdeteriorating in such a way that the Government
of Nepal should consider how everes canbe accessed without deteriorating them in the way
they are deteriorating. We never useoxygen. In any case, we carried

(31:18):
a bottle for emergency, which fortunatelywe did not use, but it is
that we did the marches of approachfor fifteen or twenty days, both to
go to the Daulagiri, the Napurna, Shoyo or the washer Broon, which
are the summits that I have madeand as we were saving hills, we

(31:45):
were acclimatizing and, moreover, wehad the possibility to live with people at
the foot of the mountains, helpingthem if we brought a doctor so much
better because they came to him toask for help. This coexistence with the

(32:05):
people of the mountain, with thechildren, with the women of Nepal,
with their smile. All this wasthe richness of mountaineering. Now many of
the commercial and non- commercial expeditionsuse the helicopter. Do they usually use

(32:28):
the phone, satellite, use theoxygen? They usually do all these things
that I, for me, areso new that it costs me at my
age to understand them, because wecame from a world of doing pinism in
the Alps, of having conquered thenorthern walls that many times the press forgets

(32:55):
it, because modestly with whom youare talking it has the first extension of
the three great north walls that forme are more important than the eight thousand
that are the ager are the cervineand the great weeps. It is the
three great mountains of the Alps.And of this it seems that people forget

(33:19):
and talk only about the problem ofthe oxygen of the Himalayan mountains, and
there are many more mountains on Earthwith which they should have due respect,
because they are the basis of goodmountaineering, as I said for example,
not long ago Mike Howler, theSteve House that are already going to look

(33:40):
for mountains, for other places likeSitswan in China, so there are still
lots of mountain, very much mountaineeringfor making pyrism real, not to traditional
pyrism and good, to put itin a way by Fermains, as it
was said, still exists. But, as you say, it is true
that the global vision that is beinggiven of this eight milism is quite terrible,

(34:01):
because what you see in the endin the media on television are those
gigantic tails. But, as wesay, perhaps it is also the media
' s fault to focus on that, the great activities that are still being
done, that many things are beingdone on very beautiful walls and there is
still a good mountaineering there and explorationadventures. How the Poe brothers do.

(34:23):
The one we have to attend tohear is that since you have mentioned the
north walls that to me today pass, the years that pass and the stories
that they read continue to seem terrifyingto me, especially the law when it
is lower looking at it, whichis that I really that every time I
have looked at it it is likenot what fear it gives me. How
you remember those walls. Which wasa bit the most engaged of them all,

(34:45):
because it is always said that thenorth of reading is like the most
terrifying, but Joe serving does nothave to have his own and are very
complicated walls, very mythical for manyreasons. Which one of them is a
little bit the one you remember todayas more engaged, harder, or perhaps

(35:05):
cost you better. I would sayyou notice that some of those mountains today
already climb with cat feet, because, unfortunately yes in two or sovereignite leader
Jordi, but not the ager andme, for me look. We made

(35:27):
the forty- eight ascent to Legerand first Spanish, of course, because
the year before, in nineteen hundredand sixty- three, they had died
of exhaustion. The Aragonese engraved andbarba, and it was a mythical mountain
that any mountaineer dreamed of climbing it. We had already made an attempt in

(35:52):
a thousand nine hundred and sixty-two England I, but it is a
mountain that cannot be bounced, comingfrom dolomites, from pullar. You have
to go when time advises and youare in a position to do so.
And or for me he keeps greatmemories, especially because in the conditions that

(36:15):
we did, we were prepared foran ascension of five or six days,
which means that we knew where wewere going. But curiously, at that
time there was no Gorotex, therewas no polar lining. The ropes were
40 meters. We used a daggerinstead of two piolets. And this is

(36:40):
what gives the impression that at everymoment we made these ascensions are worthy to
remember by the fact that we havedone it in conditions that have nothing to
do with the present, both bymaterial and by psychology as well as by
the philosophy of the mountain itself.I remember the lager as if it had

(37:06):
climbed yesterday or the north of theCervino, the year one thousand sixty-
two, the first Spanish ascension,in conditions of an ascension that would never
again repeat for how dangerous it is, as the alpiñizar said to revigate a

(37:27):
beautiful mountain of loose stones, thatis, that all those sums of things
make that when you go to theHimalayas, you go with a majority of
age to know where you get inand know what you have to do,
which today many people pass from MontBlanc, Climanjaro or Aconcagua to pretend to

(37:49):
make a summit of eight thousand meters. I respect it, but obviously I
do not advise it, because inevery situation. You have to be prepared
to face your own difficulty in thatof the Himalayas, which is sometimes one
foot in front of another. Notso much difficulty, but height. And

(38:15):
at this height it is only achievednot by taking a helicopter, but by
making the marches of approach that wehad made. And Jordi was also,
if I am not mistaken, oneof the first Europeans, of a hard
route in Josevite, at that time, in the Captain. I don'
t know if Salate was the same. I don' t even remember what

(38:37):
route you made. I remember youtelling me about an interview and besides,
the interview was really fun and howyou told me, how the extension was.
We' ve got it over thereon the website. What times those
also in Josevite, no, whattime of pioneers of that climbing community.
G had to be the truth thatexciting not to share those days with that
vititic climbers on those walls that goodfor many are the rock scale mecca,

(39:00):
also forgives from which mountain. You' re talking about Yasemite, Captain Jerry.
Well, this was Emite' s, guests from Royal Robbins and the
Chicago Sierra Club. We had theAndes Anglada and I and we got into

(39:22):
God Demite, but well, wedid bleed, made an aris to the
captain, we did in Washington colomand that' s another world of mountaineers,
of people who live alone to climb. We were on our way back

(39:44):
from the Andes and it was agood memory. But, well, I
' d say he' s notthe best keeper of my life. In
my life it is the one thatI have lived with the expeditions and with
which we have spent two months togetherat the foot of a mountain like the
Ebrès, like the Napurna, inEverés, for example, we did not

(40:07):
go the normal way. We werean expedition of the Centro Excursionista de Cataluña.
We went through the West view,which had only one Yugoslav expedition,
making the West route, which isthe longest and perhaps the most difficult route
in Lebrés. We did not makea summit because the winds began on October

(40:34):
14, just as Oscar Kadiac andJavi and Jill were about to conquer the
wall or summit. I was atthe last camp to make support equipment or
maybe repeat the ascension. We didn' t do one thing or another and

(40:58):
on top he lost his life ormedor the Sherpck who went with Xavi,
Gill and Oscar because the wind wasunbearable and when he retreated he surely hooked
his crampons with the fixed rope andlost his life, falling down to the

(41:19):
hill of the lola, two thousandmeters of fall. All these are experiences
that we live and whose film,of which I was the filmmaker, we
continue to project it after forty-two years as a great documentary that had
several awards, even at the TorelloInternational Festival in Madrid the week of cinema,

(41:45):
and we continue to project an adventurethat had nothing to do with it.
Nothing to do with the massification wesee today in the ebrès. We
were not completely alone, because itwas still the time in a thousand nine

(42:07):
hundred eighty- two that the Governmentof or Nepal gave one permission in spring
and another in autumn and we werein the month of October in the evers
This is already part of the memoriesis and to find perhaps today that kind

(42:28):
of loneliness in the mountains to goaway in winter and almost not that much
less bad than good. In chaosin some case, they' ve come
together five or six winter expeditions lately. But almost that, Jordi, we
also have Elena here, the oxygendirector, who is raising her hand to
ask a question. I leave youwith her who is very curious, hello

(42:49):
Jordi, and how is not allinterested with what you tell and what you
are talking to Jorge nothing. Ijust wanted to ask a question that you
said you continued to keep that flameof the friendship of the mountain, what
it has brought you, how beautifulin those moments and I continued to gather
you every week, which I findincredible. Not that is the most difficult
thing in today' s society,with so much communication that there are social

(43:15):
networks, but we find it hardto stay with friends. Physically then you
stay with your mates every week andapart from having a coffee, I imagine
in the cafeteria or bar of theneighborhood, that you were also in the
mountain that we eat. We don' t have a coffee, we don
' t eat, well, becauseeven better I said coffee the same you

(43:37):
have some wines, and much betterwith some wines to a good beer,
but you also do activity. Ornot well, I still do mountain skiing,
climbing a little less, but climbingdespite the ninety years and Chami shir
maybe as clear. It' sa little bit looser. But I'

(44:02):
d say this is the least importantthing. The important thing is to know
that we keep remembering the ascents withthe same intensity what happens before on Tuesdays,
which is the day we met,we used to talk about years ago.

(44:22):
We used to talk about the mountains, about the peaks we could go
to on Sunday or Saturday, aboutthe walls, that we could go climbing.
And now many times we talk moreabout the pills we take than the
mountains. But as if we've all gone past the eighties, it

(44:45):
goes into the normal. The importantthing is to keep intact the missa that
we kept alive more than sixty yearsago. Imagine, well, you speak
as a pill, but you havealso made many, many mountains, that
you carry behind your backs. So, and well, and the new generations

(45:06):
recognize you. Well, I guessthey' ll believe the vein. There
' s some harmless, retired grandparentson the wall. And then, when
they see you go up or theyrecognize, there is surprise or not that
I assure you that you have hadsome anecdote of these. Not good,
no, no, because the newgenerations go for other courses. They often

(45:32):
make great walls, big ascents andall they care about is climbing. I
find myself at the age that Ihave to attend to other things, because
there were few left to talk aboutthe Spanish expedition to the Andes of Peru

(45:53):
in nine hundred and sixty- one, that we were going there, well,
comrades who unfortunately are no longer there. I speak of Salvador Rivas,
Félix Méndez, Antonio Ayuso, PedroAcuña himself, who left us companions of
Madrid, Mariano Arrazola, compañero Guillamónin one thousand nine hundred sixty- one.

(46:17):
Imagine what we have seen for sixtyyears to continue living and remembering things
the new generations, when you count, things like these are part of another
galaxy and we are the ones whohave to keep the flame alive to remind

(46:42):
these generations that the history of mountaineeringalso counts with those who open the doors
of international mountaineering. Of course Ido. Of course I do? It
also gobbles up that inheritance and thattribute to everyone. There are others,
those pioneers. I love talking toyou and learning and being able to convey

(47:08):
your stories and what you have done. And nothing to say goodbye to,
because I' d like to knowyour secret to continue this way to the
age of ninety. I want tokeep climbing mountains at that age, too.
So, if you can give methe secret of that eternal youth,
what it is for you you'll have to come live here, because

(47:30):
I think it' s the Mediterraneandiet. Well, well, it'
s true, I' ll haveto go closer to the mountains. Here
I have guadarrama next to you alsowith everything to escape you and such a
good, I think age is anattitude. That' s a good job,
because thank you so much for yourtime has really been a pleasure,

(47:51):
a good honor to you and toshare this talk and I hope to see
you soon. That way we willapproach or your mountains to see us personally.
Thank you so much and a hugalso for you and for Jorge Chao
Come. Thanks Oxygen, we takethe adventure wherever you travel oxygen. It

(48:30):
has been more than ten years sincePablo Estreelle and tossing Marco teguilaza his days
of the great journeys. An eventthat, in addition to celebrating curiosity and
exploration, has become a reference inits field, being today one of the
most inspiring events of the calendar forall you have ever come. You know
that we talk about real panorama orcrucible of travelers of all the styles with

(48:55):
which, because you will find.I am sure an inspiration for everything,
for the next trip, for thoseyou have never been, because you have
a new opportunity on the 29th ofMay until the 1st of June, with
a hybrid format, in addition toboth face- to- face and streamed
from the Madrid trail space. Inaddition, there will be an opening this
twenty- ninth of May at theclockhouse. We will know stories of people

(49:17):
who one day decided to leave theirwork, their home or move away from
their family to pursue a dream oftravelling without haste, some even without date
of return, learn from their experiencesand enjoy listening to their anecdotes and travelers,
are the objectives of these days andyati of the great trips Hello Paul,
friend, welcome once again to ourpodcast. Thank you so much for

(49:37):
leaving us a little time. Weknow you' re going to be very
busy. Also, right now,well, it' s a pleasure to
talk with you and talk about thedays that are indeed many months of work
and already start this week, sowe' re very excited. It'
s a lot of times work.I don' t think you never stop,
because you finish one after that ifyou have the ones from Barcelona,

(49:59):
Sevilla Bilbao, the one that touchesit and never stop male and we'
ll talk about great trips, butthe first one that wants to go from
yours, not eleven years already onthe day. I remember that first edition
was going to say modest, butit wasn' t modest. The truth
was very well prepared from the beginning, also with many people and was very
entertaining. How the landscape has changedin these 11 years, how people are

(50:22):
coming. You have noticed a change, how it has been and becoming a
bit of a reference for these typesof events. Because to the truth that
right now I come to the headof great travel events like yours with this
type of speakers, with these videosthat you put in this format, I
don' t know anymore or ifI know them, I have forgotten Pablo,

(50:43):
that is, that you really arethe real reference to the same thing
of Pano the brand. Okay.Thank you very much. The truth is,
check it out. What has changedthe most over these years is at
first Well we had a hard timefinding people who were making long trips and,
in fact, we had to searcha lot on radio programs, on
websites that almost didn' t exist, there were almost no social networks at

(51:06):
that time. So, finding peoplewho were traveling around the world that had
them was very complicated. With thepassage of time, I think that this
kind of travel has become very popularthat people are increasingly willing to take a
break in the stressed, fast,accelerated life that we take to enjoy what
is their true passion, which isthe journey. So, more and more

(51:29):
we have people as candidates to participatein these days and it is increasingly difficult
for us to choose the eight peopleor travelers who are part of the cartel,
because, well, because we wouldlike to have tens of hundreds,
but then the days would not lasttwo days, but would last two months.

(51:50):
Not good. Like thinking of Paulat best, it is not a
bad idea for a whole year ofjourneys. You can imagine on duty.
The day may be filled with thekey. Pablo, I don' t
know what you said at first.It cost more and it is true that
in the last decade life has acceleratedenormously, both by social networks and by
the demand of the consumer or ofthe human being, that we want everything

(52:12):
super immediate. Maybe that' swhy you find more, too. The
longer you have had life, themore people are going to get away from
it, the more people are goingto look for that kind of travel,
that pause as you say, ifyou are tending the shots, not the
more yor is the madness around us, because also more we reveal ourselves before
it. I totally agree. That, no doubt also helps a lot the
fact that well, having social networksor these spaces, like our event or

(52:37):
other events that make known and createreferences for people, well that there are
other people that are doing it,help to give that impulse. At first,
a few years ago, when someonetold her you wanted to go around
the world, it was like crazy. But now we know a lot of
people who are doing it. Thereare a lot of people who are actually

(52:59):
living on a trip, which isthe next step. So it' s
like having those referents and here wehang a little medallite also for having made
the general public aware that there isanother way to travel, because it makes
more people willing to do that,to take that first step that sometimes makes

(53:22):
a little scary and vertigo to saycome, I' m going to save,
I' m going to leave thejob for a while, I'
m going to rent the house whereI live and I' m going to
travel around the world. When yousee that there are many other people who
are doing it, you think goodif these people can, because me too
and that' s what I thinkis cool about our event and other events

(53:42):
too that there is what happens isthat ours is very varied. There are
people who go down by bike,by car, by hitchhiking walking, there
are many means, there are noother events that are more specialized, because
without van that if by bike weoffer a crucible there of trips and super
interesting travelers, then look at that. I also wanted to tell you that

(54:02):
it' s not just about travel, it' s also about encouraging that
creativity. Not then, as yousay, not to me the one who
loves the ship Estopes seems to mea fascinating discipline that I will one day
practice. No, I mean,since you got that book out. I
' ve been caught up in that, going to the ports of the ship
- to- ship world that youcome to me and working there. I
don' t know, but Ilove that creativity in travel. It can

(54:22):
be with the family, it canbe you alone. The other day I
read the story of a guy goingaround the world in a unicycle who can
' t be hipster anymore. Thiskind of thing is also fascinating about the
journeys, there are so many waysto understand the journeys, there are so
many formats and there is that searchfor emotions, but through things as different
as going on a bike and asgoing on a boat, like walking away

(54:44):
eating a van with your children inthe desert. All of that brings your
days together. And, well,it makes people, people think differently,
also open up more. It's not good. I' m gonna
go around the world and then everybodydid the same thing. Today, however,
to go around the world is anabsolutely personal thing and each one seeks
his form or his own treasures byfinding this. I suppose you too have

(55:10):
noticed, as you say, moreand more difficult. I suppose you have
a lot of travel references, ofguests to have and of all this,
how you choose which ones inspire youthe most or how you choose the guests,
in what way you stand out fromone another, with the amount of
things that I suppose you have intwenty and proposals that you have and today

(55:34):
that there are so many possibilities.Yeah, well, what we' re
trying to do is we' retrying to get variety. That is the
greatest definition of what the event is, that there is variety in the means
of transport, which we have alreadymentioned, but also in the ways of
traveling, since couple alone, infamily, also in terms of budgets,
in terms of the length of thetrip, some shorter others longer, in

(56:00):
terms of the physical space where itdevelops, we try to make representation of
the five continents. So there's a lot of variety, especially that
' s why you said at thebeginning, so that it' s like
a door to creativity, a windowto inspiration, to show that there are

(56:22):
many ways to travel, that they' re all valid and correct, that
there' s no better way thanany other. But the listener who is
sitting there or at home watching itstreaming and so on, suddenly says that
you can travel that on a stopboat or that you hear I would never
have encouraged myself to make a stop, but this couple, when they were
in Asia, encouraged to do soand said that it has gone very well.

(56:43):
So, how do you get alot of ideas about ways to travel
that maybe you haven' t thoughtabout and that' s why I think
they hook up so much these days? Remove a goose there, what stories
can we find in this edition?Surprised more than what little things will we
get hooked on in this new editionof the days? Yeah, well,

(57:07):
there' s a lot of variety. And since the person like Miquel Pérez
Colmenar, who has been traveling forten years and has done so as his
way of life back in Asia andOceania, traveling very slowly, spending very
little, and will tell us howhe has done it. We also have
walking trips, for example, whichis unusual. Then Pablo Nemo is going

(57:29):
to tell us how he walked acrossthe African continent. We have a couple
of bike trips, which is oneof the most ecological and economical ways to
travel from Runchen, who traveled fromSpain to China and well beyond in search
of his origins, because he isa native of Madrid born in China and
Marta who also with a solidarity project, went from Spain to Istanbul, she

(57:53):
had not biked just that she hadnot made any trips. They are all
testimonies, therefore, of how someonewith much interest and with few means looks.
Now I' m remembering Gina Sanchez, who' s been traveling for
eight years on a 150 cubic centimetresmotorcycle. That' s a small little

(58:16):
bit, with little budget, whichdoesn' t cost a thousand euros.
Eight years he' s been travelingon a ridiculous budget. So the media
is not an impediment they give you. It is an impediment that traveling alone
in that impediment and we try toreflect this well with this variety of prison

(58:36):
and always functioning, because, aswe say, you are already taking eight
editions, always goes forward, alwaysgoes very well, thanks to your effort
and your work, of course itis the main basis that this has gone
forward and goes on like this.And besides, there' s one interesting
thing today that if you' regoing to mention streaming, that I think
it works pretty well, that isto say you notice that the audience goes

(59:00):
up or up every year that withthis new format, or how dynamic is,
because maybe it also takes away peoplewho could go face to face or
not. Or simply add how thisis from the hybrid format how it works.
This does not add up, ofcourse, because there are many people
who, although they wanted to come, cannot travel for family, work or

(59:20):
whatever they are to Madrid, becausealso, the hotels are very expensive in
this city. So, well,streaming is the way to be part of
the event, to watch it live, to be able to send questions to
speakers and participate in the event.But from our house. And also,
the good thing is that the talksare recorded thirty days, so if at
that moment you can' t seeor want to see the, talk or

(59:45):
tea again, you have to godo some errand on Saturday, you can
have or have thirty days to seethem and enjoy them. And it'
s a good way to work thatI think all events are boosting because it
is very successful and allows us toreach good audiences that are in Spain and

(01:00:05):
anywhere in the world. It's just that that' s the nice
thing about streaming that can or canbe joined as the podcast, like this
podcast, people are listening to youfrom anywhere in the world, because streaming
comes to be a little bit thesame very interesting. The truth is that
you have it in that video format, is that it is an advance and
as you say, because who knows, because there will be people in South

(01:00:29):
America watching those stribing trips and obviously, you cannot measure Madrid to see you,
so you are not inspiring it tothe people who are in the chair,
but you are already inspiring people allover the world, which, then,
frankly, is very nice Pablo.We always talk to you about the
days. We never talked about youin the end. So, to close
or ask a personal question, Paul, who is how you have become Paul,

(01:00:50):
I was like Pablo Trevel becomes PabloTrubel, with his publisher, traveler,
with his flock of great journeys,with so many trips also behind your
back. All over the world withhow you came to inspire yourself, since
you are engaged in aspiring to otherpeople. Like you said, how you
became or where you found the motivationto dedicate yourself to traveling with the world
and disspiring others to travel the world. Yes, I believe that the one

(01:01:13):
who travels, the one who explores, has something common, that is curiosity,
and I believe that that curiosity isinnate, although it can develop,
obviously, but I have always beenvery curious about what happened in the world.
And that was encouraged especially when Idid Lerasmus and then, when I
started working and living abroad, youstarted to mix with other cultures, to

(01:01:36):
meet other people. And then therecame a time when I did travel a
lot, but for work or onvacation, and let' s say that
wasn' t enough to satisfy mycuriosity to know what' s in the
world. So, well, overthe last few years, I' ve
taken two sabbatical years to travel.One of them made the Silk Road and

(01:01:57):
another I crossed Africa from the south, from South Africa to Morocco by land
with my tar. Indeed, andthat curiosity and desire to meet in the
first person have not ceased to thecontrary. They' re getting more and
more because life is too short andyou start thinking. I have less and
less time to do everything I want. So in short, this summer,

(01:02:20):
for example, I' m goingto Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, a two-
and- a- half month tripwith the bike, which is going to
be a challenge, but exciting.Listen how nice, because you won'
t tell it anymore and I hopeyou don' t tell it in the
pages of Pablo magazine too, youknow that you have the space to tell
your great adventures as well. Thankyou so much. You know everyone who
listens to us. You can findall the information and best of the great

(01:02:43):
trips is and hopefully everyone will bethere, if not in the streaming,
seeing all these inspiring stories that bringus Pablo and Illera in their journeys and
to You of the great trips.Thank you very much, Pablo, once
again for being with us, apleasure as always, a pride to have
you as a friend and collaborator fromtime to time in this space to you

(01:03:05):
Jorge, which is a pleasure andas many times as necessary and we will
talk more to collaborate more, agreeter, of course, a hug,
Pablo, because I believe that afterthis program today is more than demonstrated that

(01:03:27):
the mountain that travel is a sourceof inspiration and that the adventure has no
age, gender or limits. Thankyou for listening and I' ll see
you on the mountain.