April 5, 2024 • 43 mins
En este nuevo episodio hablamos en primer lugar con Antonio de la Rosa y sus últimas aventuras antárticas. Con Raúl Lora conocemos más sobre la profesión de guía de montaña. Y con Virginia Iglesias charlamos sobre el proyecto A Pulmón.
Podcast Oxígeno, con Elena Moro y Jorge Jiménez Ríos.
Podcast Oxígeno, con Elena Moro y Jorge Jiménez Ríos.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Oxygen. The author' s passionatepodcast asks you hello oxygenated oxygenates. We
(00:26):
start our spring program after it hassnowed and rained and much this week Santa
in much of our territory, ameteor not very conducive to venture to make
long journeys, but yes for afterwetting out there if we have gone out
to walk, then, to goback home, give us a warm shower
(00:46):
and curl up on the couch towatch a good mountain movie or to hear
why not great adventures like those werelate in our podcast, Jorge, how
you have been through this in theNorth. A lot of rain out there,
or not, well, a lotof rain, a lot of cold,
but you know that out there,because we are always warm, eating
(01:08):
with good vido to which we havethe recipe to survive the cold. It
' s okay. Hello, ElenaHello, Dear listeners, we return to
the sound of the Adventure with threeguests who will take us on great trips
around the world, you know,but also on great inner journeys. We
are accompanied by Antonio de la Rosa, Raúl Lora and Virginia de Iglesias,
with whom we will talk about mountainsand horizons, but also about how they
(01:32):
change us and place us in life. Welcome to our podcast, the sound
of the Adventure. Well, then, there are friends who, after these
(01:57):
days of Bucks, send you amessage by Whatsapp telling you that they have
been in such a city or eatingin such a restaurant and send you the
picture or that they have come outof procession even and then there are friends
who send you a whatsapp telling youthat they have been sailing in a gulet
to the Antarctic to row there onsurf pad boards or pedaling with some water
(02:21):
bikes. And that friend couldn't be other than Antonio de la Rosa.
Antonio, how you' re welcomeonce again to our podcast. By
the way, it' s aswell as you know, before you get
into the matter, Antonio, you' ll ever stand still. You at
home, snuggled up on the couch. I do, but I' m
nothing married, I mean, I' m ever staying at home, I
' ve got a standup in thefireplace and I' m ever staying home
(02:44):
with the family, but not,as my mother rightly says, if she
' s calmed down the house won' t get me sure? Sure?
Sure, because we' re probablysaying that all of a sudden, because
that' s what you get frompeople who tell you what their Santa week
has been like. Well, thenall the normal stuff, no, and
(03:04):
then I get a whatsapp of yoursthat I see you' ve gone sailing
for a month on the part ofIra suffering to Antarctica and I say but
if this man has gone again.Well, that' s what we'
re gonna talk about after your lastbig adventure and challenge you got last year.
At the end of the rowing andsailing journey from Cape Horn to South
(03:25):
Georgia, following the footsteps of Shackeltonand sailing alone about two thousand three hundred
and eighty kilometers through the ills toAntarctica. You' ve returned to Antarctica
this March. You don' tget tired of traveling to that content and
besides, Mira had a lot ofdesire to step on the Antártira, really
(03:46):
because of course the other time,last year, I tried to reach the
Antarctic Peninsula and in the end,because the wind flowed to me. I
was not allowed to reach the AntarcticPeninsula for about a hundred miles and in
the end I met the real goalof the trip, which was to reach
South Georgia. But he can't go to Dalantarte, which I already
wanted to do. And the opportunityarose for me, because a year ago
(04:08):
I went as a professional guide withthe crew of joy sailors and the gulet
to the doublon to Antarctica, andwell, I have not let miss this
occasion and finally I have been ableto go to the Antarte and, moreover
and meet two objectives that had mind, first to reach the Antarctic peninsula and
(04:29):
then to try to sail and tobe able to row on a pad of
the south that had never been madein the circle by ananthartic, that for
that we have to reach with him, with the sail to the parallel sixty
- six, thirty- three,forty- four, that is very south
from where it is usually going witha sailboat and well we have been able
to get it. In addition,accompanied by a group of we could call
them customers, although in reality theyare friends and people who have trusted in
(04:51):
this project to go with us andenchanted of life hear. But and this
sailboat is a normal sailboat, agulet, no, the doubloon is called
yes, yes, that' snot very normal, as it' s
a steel vebook. Logically, becausein the end, because you have to
go through places, between icebr betweenice zones and it is not very normal.
(05:15):
The sailboat is a very resistant veil, prepared to withstand these conditions,
a sailboat that has been made inCanada and that wears a great captain named
Paula, which is a machine.She was the only woman on the team
and it was the one that sentus all we went in the capital nine
sixteen people, thirteen, three crewand twelve others. And the truth is
(05:40):
that it has taken us all wellstraight and no point of comparison with this
expedition in company and with friends asyou say or customers, and that last
year' s adventure and the badtaste of the captain' s mouth are
(06:01):
logically pirates, nothing to see.First good, because he has gone with
established professionals, really, with theballot to the doubloon of sailors alería that
are professional people, would be witha captain who has been involved in the
adventure from the first minute, thathas managed to take us to the sixty
- six, when not even thatwas in any contract and has made an
(06:21):
effort to arrive to the contrary thanthe year precedence, that he had contract
with a ship that was to accompanyme and left me abandoned. As you
know, the ship of the shipof the Ezekiel and the truth is that,
at the level of adventure and aboveall of difficulty and dangers, it
(06:42):
has nothing to do with it.This is an organized journey that, although
we have not really had to passthe sea of ounces these five hundred miles
with waves and wind, well,it is a sailboat that crosses it in
three four days, that we lookfor a good window of time, both
to go and to return. Andeven though, logically, most people end
up getting dizzy, because it is, because the sea there moves a lot
and it is a hard adventure foranyone to see. In the end,
(07:08):
I spent twenty- six days withwaves of five meters, with a lying
of sixty knots, rolling around withthe battery full of water, the ship
half flooded the other. It wasa committed and risky adventure. And this
has been a nice adventure to overcomefor many, but without any real risk.
Of course you, to get dizzy, you need stronger things, as
(07:31):
the truth knows, luckily and Icross my fingers. I' ve never
felt dizzy today and so on.The truth is that when one goes clear
on this ship I have been witha crew seventeen people and thirteen at some
point have become dizzy. So whenyou see it and you also see some
people who get dizzy really get dizzyand pass it off and I say well,
what luck. In fact, Ithink that if I got dizzy I
(07:53):
wouldn' t do anything at sea, because it has to be very hard
or not that your body tells youlisten, don' t stain grass,
it' s not clear, notthat it has to be tremendous besides the
dizziness this boat that no longer youleast I am not a mariner, much
less, but when it has givenme I have gone by boat and gives
(08:13):
you the dizziness, it is nolonger difficult for me to be a person,
I am not people. Indeed,listen and then the experience of good,
for draw the table of peace fromthe south that you carry there with
you where you go How you havebeen rowing through those waters. That was
so cool. I had already rowedin ice water, as I did in
(08:33):
Greenland, but this time it hasbeen but everything has also been a bit,
as I always go alone and suchthe head has been very accompanied.
In fact, we have been agroup in which came people who were pyragustastas,
who have even come a racing canoeerfrom Valladolid and friend MiguelÁngel and
have been able to paddle in canoeseveral others. We were going with the
southern parent boards of that PC andthen it has come to a very curious
(08:56):
group of some guys who are theinventors of the table subtract, which is
like a southern pallet table, butwhich moves pedals, it carries an axis
that causes the board to move pedalingthen. For them it was a dream
many years ago when they invented this, this bike friend Josephe Jay and Luis.
(09:16):
For them it was a dream toever be able to pedal in the
carrot. With those crises and lookthey have been able to fulfill it.
They have come with us, theyhave come with the production team also of
visual well that they will also releasea documentary soon in Netflix And, well,
it has been. We have goneinto three different types of markings,
all of them rowing pedals, allof them sustainable, medium environmentally, 100
(09:39):
% and it has been very nice, in a very cool experience to be
able to share with a lot ofpeople those activities. We have rowed on
the island of exception, where isthe Spanish base Gabriel de Castilla, we
have cremated also in front of thatof the Antarctic base of Bernasky, which
is the Ukrainian base. We havebeen able to visit the basucraniana, that
well, as soon as we arrive. He is very grateful for the great
(10:01):
welcome and the great help that theSpanish people have given to Ukrainians in these
difficult times for them. So,well the truth has been very nice and
very sentimental that vigitated to the Ukrainianbase of Antarctica. And well, in
the last few goals, I've managed to pedal and row in the
(10:22):
circus, the Antarctic bowl. That' s so nobody' s gone until
yesterday and it' s way down. It' s very cold, already,
very emotional, yes, very emotional, for everything you count. And
then, finally, you' vealso skied, you' ve skied on
your way, too, in casesomething was missing. In case something was
missing, we stopped you one dayon Copperville Island and there the veneer could
not access the coast. All Idid was with the Southern father board.
(10:46):
I had taken the skis just incase as I don' t always know
all about this is how much headis done in case here I had taken
my skis and went to Copperville Islandand well, because I could come rowing
with the father of the South withthe ski boots and skis on the board
and I made that cover of twohundred and fifty- two meters on the
crossing that well, since I wasthere, I did it a couple of
(11:07):
times so I could enjoy a greatdescent among penguins that I believe is what
has surrounded the island. The truthis that an adventure very chila, muchula
and that pull that I take toremind all the listeners of this podcast that
we will repeat the experience in Februarytwo thousand twenty- five and that we
(11:28):
are already open the places of discriptionand hope that the group will be filled
again, because this yes, thatis an unforgettable trip. Hey, but
where do you have to sign upin Joy sailors, Joy marine, Joy
marine for my network that is orfor my social networks. That' s
where we send them all the information. We' re not going to refuse
an expensive trip, because it's a very, very special trip,
(11:52):
but it' s unforgettable and Ithink it' s worth spending the savings
on this, because in the endlife there' s only one and you
have to take advantage of and dosome kind of things that really fill you
up. Of course, of course, Antonio, here we have Jorge,
who also wants to ask you aquestion. Yeah, hey, hey,
Antonia, how you doing. Itried to steal the last question from Elena
and you spoke before captain precisely andMira, my girl, Carmen, is
(12:18):
about to examine the per of theboatmaster' s title and was going to
start making her first piritos, herfirst adventures. What advice would you give
to someone who wants to come upwith his first projects. Well, look,
I don' t know. Idon' t know if I'
m the person to give advice inthat regard. I' m going to
confess now that he won' tlisten to anyone, I' m going
to tell him to leave in SouthPeace alone. Don' t look at
(12:41):
what I' m going to tellyou, maybe you don' t know.
I have crossed four oar oceans,as you know, to see if
I can do the Indian next year, which will be my fifth ocean,
and I have not even the title. I can' t get a little
zodia, so that' s whyI' m telling you, but then
you won the race and everything,and I don' t even have the
(13:03):
title. And I' m temptedbecause I like it, but I'
m not. I' m notmuch of a title girl. But if
you like it, logically and wantto dedicate yourself to sailing and such getting
the knowledge to see is important,I lowered it. Well, I'
m going a little bit to checkon all that, but let' s
(13:24):
go if she likes it there andif she knows that the ship captain'
s degree and she hires her forjoy. Veniero para idelantartide. When you
have all the degrees, the firstthing you' re going to do is
send the. The Antarctic is theCouncil, the fantastic band. Thank you
(13:45):
very much, thank you very much, Anterio, always delighted. We are
listening to your adventures and, sinceyou are not going to stay in almost
you will have many more at once, we will hear you soon, back,
soon, soon. We' realready entangled. We are this indian
and before the indian I have inmind a little thing that you will tell
each other is worth mother, mymother, my mother, well, you
(14:05):
don' t drop the roof.Indeed, I have to follow the advice
of Mommy who doesn' t fuckup my roof at home. A very
strong hug. Thank you, Antonio, a little hello, guys. Chacho,
Gracias, Chao Chao Oxígeno the podcastof the author' s passionate,
author method. Recently I had theopportunity to travel to Chamonís on a trip
(14:43):
organized by the French brand Milette andwell there we made a journey through the
Glacier at the foot of the Dumidiguil and near Mont Blanck, accompanied by
the guides of the prestigious gy companyof shamon sponsored by the brand. There
I also met Roberto Muñoz, thesecond Spanish guide to enter the historical company
(15:05):
of Chamoni, after Simón Elias,collaborator certainly of Oxygen and with him with
Roberto, I am talking about thedifferences between the formation of guide in Spain
in the Alps, of his workand following this interview that I did Raúl
Lora, who is always there attentiveto what we publish in oxygen, because
(15:28):
I call myself Raúl hora who ispresident of the Spanish Association of Mountain Guides.
I am very interested also to talkabout these differences or not similarities.
Now we will see him talking withhim and the work situation of the guides
in Spain, and we found itvery interesting to discover more of the work
(15:48):
of the people who guide us onthe mountain and help us to fulfill our
challenges and dreams Hello Raul welcome alsoonce again, to the sound of the
adventure hello. Elena good afternoon,how are you, because very well here
ready to talk to you to tellus about the work situation of the guides,
the work that you do that manytimes we have spoken other times also
(16:12):
in the podcast, perhaps unknown andalso like you, you have to form.
And, well, if there iswork here for so many guides or
there is no work that you tellus a little bit to see if they
add up to the unfortunately, tothe lists of unemployment or unemployment or,
(16:37):
on the contrary, there is alot of work, because to talk about
it, I would start by distinguishingbetween the four specialties of sports technicians that
exist, the four mountain guides,the four specialties of mountain guides that currently
exist in our country, because thesituation of each one of them is very
different. So, to make itclear to the listeners, there are four
(17:03):
specialities of mountain guide of sports technicianthat is what is called the degree that
we have the mountain guides, ofwhich you have been talking so far,
it is the degree of top sportstechnician of high mountain or high mountain guide,
which are those that normally we havethe international belief uia GM, that
allows us to work practically all overthe world in a legal way. It
(17:26):
would be, as I say,the top sports technician on the high mountain.
And then there' s the mid- mountain sports technician, with his
specific half- mountain credential called huimla, and that credential also allows them to
travel around different countries of the worldworking in compliance with the legal requirements of
each of those countries. Then therewould be the gorge technicians and the scale
(17:51):
technicians. These are the four specialitiesof mountain guides who boast that they are
part of the Spanish Association of Guides. They are the four titles that give
capacity for those who form mountain daysin our country. As you said before,
the situation of each of them isquite different in the case of high
(18:12):
mountain days, which is what youstarted talking about, because the truth is
that our country currently has more demandthan supply. I mean, we need
more high- mountain guides. Thereare very few of us, particularly in
Spain. With the international credential ofthe Uia GM, there are approximately hundreds
(18:36):
and seventy of which of those hundreds, about one hundred no longer exercise,
some because they have retired and othersbecause they are engaged in something else.
So let' s say that forall of Spain there are seventy high mountain
guides uya gemes plus about three hundredand fifty two hundred approximately active that would
(19:00):
be the ancients. I say old, because it is a situation of the
previous decree that regulated all this,which was called high- mountain sports technician
medium- grade sports in high mountain. So, in total, we'
re talking about making fast numbers ofabout two hundred and fifty to three hundred
people active to cover all the demandin Spain and maybe it' s pulling
(19:22):
high. That is to this day, very little and more, when it
is a bit, so came thecall that I made you to talk about
all this more, when many timesin high mountain training centers, specific high
mountain put show as paradigm of thework of a high mountain guide, as
the example to follow working in theAlps. That, from my point of
(19:47):
view, is an absolutely personal opinion. Of course, it' s a
mistake. First, because we donot meet the demand for a purely pragmatic
point of view, we do notmeet the demand of our country. And
secondly, because it carries another problemthat has a star wrotfixion that, like
many others, but ours maybe alittle bit more, it is very difficult
to reconcile the personal or the familyor the professional. So, if you
(20:11):
have a profession where you' relooking to spend three months working the Alps,
traveling from here to there, workingsomewhere else. That in a time
of your life is something very nice, very rewarding, very enriching, but
in the long term it should notbe an example to follow, because it
(20:32):
generates many other problems. When wefinish our training, we all want to
travel and work in different mountain ranges, in different places in the world.
In the early years they are normal, but then came a time when,
honestly, what you want most atwork is not to go back to Mont
Blanc or go back to the term, but what you want most is either
(20:55):
to travel on time with your clientsof your whole life, or to work
close to home, in activities inareas that you know more or less well
that it costs you less to organizethe work and that, of course,
that is the most important thing,in the end it allows you to return
home and thus combine your personal lifewith your professional life. So that'
(21:17):
s the problem with the high mountainguides, the top high mountain sports technicians.
I find it so surprising that itis true that there is that lack
of offer. I would never havethought about it when you told me,
well because I don' t knowmaybe I still have the old image or
(21:40):
think that people don' t goto mountain guides because they don' t
like to pay or for the eastif I can do it, that ignorance
or ignorance would call it from work, but well, it' s a
very positive thing that there is thatdemand. And now the negative is that
the guides, maybe you think thatpart is that they go out looking for
(22:03):
activities in the Alps a little tosatisfy their desire to do activity in the
personal Alps, rather than for customers, rather than to look for customers.
Maybe it' s because you wantto go to the Alps. Well,
by the way, I also domy own activity for myself, to satisfy
(22:25):
my desires or my desires. Yesalso because of a somewhat confused view of
the economic part of the work ofthe days in our country and outside our
country. Many colleagues make fast numbersand say it' s not clear that
in summer Jamaican working with customers thereor even for a company, they will
(22:52):
pay me four hundred euros a dayis more than what is charged in Spain.
Yes, of course, but youhave to tell him all the tragic
expenses they have living in France,of course and more, in a place
like Chamanís, where everything is muchmore expensive than if you live the biggest
of Espino or in Sotres or inVenázquez, yes or in the French titeo,
(23:15):
that is, in the Alps theyall multiply, of course, that
is, that is then there isthat economic part. Then, there too
the part uses a little of havingthe work of the idealized Alps that comes
to them quite because they are quiteinfluenced by the training they receive. When,
in fact, in Spain we carry, that is, the guides have
(23:37):
been working. I' m nottelling you in the same years as the
high ones, because it' snot true. But since the beginning of
the last century there have been mountainguides in our country and in those since
to put a few figures of directtwo three decades, the mountain guides earn
in life worth in our country.I have spent more than twenty years dedicating
(24:03):
myself uniquely and exclusively to my alreadyhigh mountain work. I say of them
and, as I told you before, I am no company. I am
an autonomous who works only with clientswho contact me to do activities or train
in the area that is related tothe mountain and sometimes I cannot meet the
demand that I have the more companiesthat, for example, of Pyrenees,
(24:26):
need several guides to work, thatdo a much bigger marketing job than mine
and that reach more people need moredays to work and we do not have
them. That in the case ofHigh Mountain is also true that it is
hard and very vocational work. Itmay seem from the outside it is easy
(24:51):
to have the vision idealized, becauseit is a very nice job, very
romantic, very enriching. I loveit, but it' s not a
job I mean, you don't have to fool the new generations,
you have to make it clear thatit' s very nice, but it
' s very hard what you saythat' s not idealizing. And well,
even if you can have the dreamof working in Shamonís and continue,
(25:15):
because that works in such a legendarycompany as, by the way, it
must be already over- exploited therefull of guides come out from under the
stones, because as for the peopleof Europe or the world, it wants
to be lead Chamonis. Well then, let the new generations also know that
here you can also perform very technicalactivities and work as guides, if it
(25:41):
is something vocational, because you dotechniques and not techniques. I mean,
in the end you' re atthe customer' s service and I imagine
you' ll be satisfying and leadingpeople to meet their challenges, no matter
what level they may be. Andthen let us not fool ourselves that if
what we use as an example isthe Alps, the Mont Bland massif,
(26:07):
in the first place, the guidesof Chamonís do not want to work in
summer. There, many of themdo not want to work and are increasingly
shortening their season because of the amountof objective dangers there are and the massification
of the most popular routes and therisks that I carry. Few times ago
there is a very interesting article aboutthe frequency with which stones fall into the
(26:30):
black dot. Let' s saythe normal Mont Blanc route, what they
call the bowling alley the corridor,if everything under wooter' s shelter and
at the time of least frequency wasaround three minutes. That is, every
three minutes stones fall in a placebecause you have to pass yes or that
is a risk effectively that it isa lottery that is, and you are
(26:51):
very likely to fall a stone uncleto your customers And then what would be
good if it reached those new generationsis that in the profession of guide it
has always been a craft profession,so to speak, that is, of
a mountain craftsman, a guide whoworks autonomously that to whom they told their
(27:11):
clients and lives normally in the valleyin which he works and leaves punctually.
That was the job of guiding theAlps for over a hundred years. However,
now, perhaps with the globalization ofeverything, we do not want to
be constantly here. There' sthat way, which isn' t sustainable.
(27:33):
I am no longer going to gointo climatic aspects, but what is
certainly not sustainable is on a personallevel, because in the long term you
are faced with many other problems.It' s not what you' re
saying. You can keep it fora few years, but not your whole
life and, in fact, youalso have to good, because in the
(27:55):
end they were the guides, theywere the local guides. That' s
why you were going somewhere. Idon' t know where you mainly work
in Europe, and because you onlyknow the territory, because you get up
and lie down. There you areevery day moving through those mountains and you
have the knowledge and experience to guidethere, not in other mountains that,
(28:17):
perhaps, are more unknown. I' m not saying you can' t
work, but maybe, because youknow less about a mountain in the Himalayas
than the almanzor ascent. That isso, that is, it is much
more comfortable in quotation marks within howuncomfortable our work is. Much easier to
work in your way that you endup having everything very controlled every detail of
(28:41):
the mountains that surround you than beingconstantly going from one side to the other.
But anyway, this is something.It' s problematic, just as
much of the hera tanñas of effectiveness. We need more and change that paradigm
of thinking that then you hear theideal is not going to the Alps to
(29:02):
work. The ideal is to bein a season of the Alps to train,
acquire more experience and then settle ina place where you can combine your
personal life with your professional life.That as for the high mountain warrior,
however, in half mountain ravines andclimbing, practically what happens is the opposite.
(29:23):
That is to say, here aretwo problems that ultimately unite with each
other, which is, on theone hand, that the regional administrations do
not primarily recognize the dangerousness of theactivities that we do as guides and with
(29:45):
which they do not require in theirdecrees of regulation of active tourism, that
the qualification necessary to work is thatof sports technician, thus reducing the importance
to the safety of the users,and this makes that the sports technicians have
to compete with many other degrees weare going to say secondary in terms of
(30:10):
hourly load, that is, degreeslike that of sports engine, for example,
a free time monitor that in someautonomous communities is recognized. Half-
mountain sports technicians, especially gorges andclimbing, have to compete with other such
graduates who offer activities at ridiculous pricesbecause they are not professionals, they don
' t even sometimes have to bedischarged. Sometimes he doesn' t have
(30:33):
insurance, but he doesn' thave the expenses a professional can have.
This coupled with the fact that thisformation as a mountain track has become a
bit fashionable in recent years and thereare training centers that have taken advantage of
the pull and that we are talkingabout about 300 half- mountain guides leaving
in Spain each year. Here passesthe high mountain and high mountain, high
(30:59):
mountain with the belief of Luia GM, to tell you the approximate average I
will tell you about six people.There are three years out and there are
ten years out, but about sixseven people a year or international belief to
be able to work in the Alpslegally. Of course it is a stress
(31:21):
and the other are extreme, becausethey are very interesting reflections, Raúl,
so that they remain, for anotherprogram and to continue chatting. I don
' t know here we have,I don' t know how we can
reach a solution or communicate and tryto reach out to those new generations who
(31:49):
are being trained so that they havea range of possibilities and see the opportunities
that also exist here in their terrain, in their territory, to work and
stay. So, thank you verymuch, Raul, for telling us all
this and for discovering these intricacies ofthe profession of guide so interesting, the
(32:12):
reflections you have made on it.Many thanks to IT aena and Oxigeno for
giving voice to the professionals of themountain and you know that, when you
want to collaborate. Thank you verymuch, Raul one hug good day another
for IT oxygen. We take theadventure there where you are great stories of
(32:37):
yesterday and today. Also last March, the second edition of the project was
presented to Lung, which aims tomake lung cancer visible through ascension to different
values of our geography, to siste, to martyr the disease and to show
(32:58):
that there are things that are changingthanks to prevention and science. Six new
summits in six autonomous communities will bepromoted by sports patients in companies, mountain
guides and their own soncologists. Oneof those guides is our guest Virginia Iglesias,
welcome Virginia, who we have hadbefore in this podcast Alberto Urtasu,
(33:20):
one of the promoters, but well, you are also in this project from
the beginning. Yeah, hey,well, yeah, that' s it.
I' m fine with the projectfrom the beginning, with the Pulmon
project, because I' m gladto have you with us again, to
talk to you that we haven't done it for a long time since
those walks in the mountains and Navarreforests and that well we ate also there
those days. I' m tellingyou, I' m telling you,
(33:43):
yeah, juatito bus we' restaying. The truth is that enchanted and
fascinated on that trip that we metyou and thanks to it we have also
known this project that seems wonderful tous and the one that we have already
talked about, but good that wewanted to tell us also your vision.
As you have, it has changedto you also to be able to see
(34:04):
the disease or patients from another perspectiveand how you help them also to overcome
and empower themselves. Yeah, well, nothing. The truth is that well,
since the project began, of courseI, not good, because you
have always had some contact with thedisease. But I am the truth that,
luckily, for now not very closeand good, then, being able
(34:27):
to live with them also, becausewith sickness, because you get into it
you learn a lot. So too, the truth that, personally, has
given me calmness in the face,for example, of this disease or others
that can get to how to takeit. Well, then, there are
(34:51):
limits that society sometimes imposes, oreven ourselves out of fear. Not because,
for example, in lung cancer,because you think you' re not
going to have some lung capacity,for example. And yet, because many
participants who have ascended with different summitswith lung, well they have realized that
(35:12):
they have achieved something that they thoughtthey could not do already since the diagnosis.
So, well, then, sharethat with them, see that they
exceed those limits, that they evenretake running or going out into nature,
climbing peaks or giving you walks thatthey didn' t, because the truth
(35:32):
that is super rewarding good and besides, has always helped to improve health,
including mental health. The walk amongthose forests, the trees, among the
mountains hears surveillance and that yes more, you have chosen for this year and
why, why you have chosen thesesummits, because this year the summits of
(35:54):
five communities will rise. Last yeartheir bide a six, they climbed six
and it is in a good veron, because also for distributing it throughout the
year, because the project then involvesa quite laborious logistics. Let' s
say no then, well, fordistributing it it has been done so.
(36:15):
This year we climb five summits offive communities in the Peninsula and then,
because we open international doors this yearthat we are very happy and already organizing
everything to climb Mount Ararat. And, well, let' s start this
month right now with a little week. We start with the Basque Country,
(36:36):
with the IT Corril, and thencontinue to climb the Almanzor. So,
well, it' s been raisedthis way and for now this year it
' s good, because there's a budget, because in the end,
this project is sponsored, especially byforms that collaborate and we' ve
(37:00):
managed to get the project out.I have the peaks and in Montenera in
your aunts, how beautiful and whatbeautiful peaks, also the ones you have
chosen. As you said, thedisease does not have to involve complications in
the mountain to see that there isa horizon in the time that you have
(37:22):
to be able to do things andmotivate yourself and remain what we are or
even better. The truth is,it' s a beautiful project to take
to the mountain. You as aguide, I imagine you feel something special.
Your profession is also something vocational andwe understand that you like people to
(37:45):
fulfill their dreams and help them todo so. But in this case,
moreover, it must be especially niceto reach those summits, to fulfill the
projects, the project of the wholeyear, yes, the truth that yes.
That is to say, for me, within my profession, it can
be the most exciting guides that Ihave worked on, especially because of the
(38:07):
fact that clearly reaching the summit forthem or not getting to share those days
that we share for them is superexciting. And then, in addition,
that they are shared with doctors,that is, because they raise doctors with
their patients and then, well thatthey can both one part and the other,
(38:30):
patients or affected and doctors share emotionshow they live the disease and how
also the doctor, how is hisprofession within this and remove those tables that
are in the consultations and that coldnessthat sometimes hospitals find themselves, because living
(38:50):
that and seeing that is super exciting. And well, always on the mountain,
when someone costs more and achieves itand we achieve it together, because
in the end it is to forma team, because it is very rewarding.
Yes well, Virginias, you asa project as a personal project.
(39:10):
You have some, some summit inmind for this year to ascend or you
have raised some project, or youhave too many things on your hands,
among your guiding work. You don' t also have the nordy walking Guadarrama
and come on, I think you' ll last the whole year, but
you have room for some project,some personal project. To your pine.
(39:30):
Yes, well, yes, itis true that we have everything quite complete,
because in the end the guides area little filling and complementing everything.
Then, in fact, I alsomake Nordic march, especially in the Sierra
de Madrid. Then I also livein Pyrenees. So, well, there
we also have other projects, likethe traking of the Golondrinas in summer and,
(39:55):
meanwhile, between some things and others, well, we will escape to
the level of personal leisure, surelyto Ecuador, to the Volcanoes of Hooboll
and the truth that that is theproject. We will climb some of the
volcanoes and well, because that willbe between May and June. So also,
(40:16):
because very excited by this personal projectand it seems to you a precious
project that is very good to helpothers to fulfill their dreams. No,
but today we also have to meetsome of our goals and have our goals
there. And he said he hearswhat a great destiny and what a good
adventure it looks like, Virginia.We are very happy to have you here
(40:38):
with us in the podcast and wewill be very attentive to everything about how
you are going to the project,that you will return with us to tell
us after each summit, when youblame the project, when you want you
will be here with the doors openso that you will tell us more,
(40:58):
so that you will bring us evensome guests who will also tell us their
personal experiences. Even talking to doctorswould be super interesting, because for them
too it has to be a fantasticexperience, not to go from the consulting
table or to the hospital, tobe with them, to go to the
mountain, to live those experiences,to live or simply to share a snack
there at the summit. Hell,it' s for them, too.
(41:20):
It' s also your dynamic changeand a little bit of life. Yes
Of course, I think the doctorswould be happy to talk to you,
to tell us their experience, bothdoctors and affected, because, well,
they live it very intensely both sides, as do we and the doctors.
For doctors it is a super enjoyableexperience for them, because besides, they
(41:45):
have the schedules full. Then,when they come to these experiences, they
disconnect and for them the truth isgood, for that, living with those
affected and seeing them outside the consultationsis very emotional for them. Virginia,
I was listening to you. Ihave let Jorge take the interview too that
(42:07):
I wanted to talk to you likeI was already in the presentation of the
second edition of Pulmon, in thatpresentation that you did and that you did
and nothing. Thank you that theproject and all the team that do such
beautiful and important work, also todestigmatize the disease a little and have another
(42:32):
vision of it. So thank youvery much. And we also spoke soon
for that, so you can tellus how this second edition of a Lung
went a hug, give it,a hug, elena, thank you,
a pleasure to listen to you andnothing. We are very grateful at the
end of this project so that itwill be disseminated, dilevigibility. So thank
(42:52):
you, for this spread. Thanksa lot to the whole team to you
for a hug. And after thesestories that fill us with oxygen and reach
our hearts, we fire the soundof today' s adventure. See you
(43:16):
in the mountains,
Oxygen. The author' s passionatepodcast asks you hello oxygenated oxygenates. We
(00:26):
start our spring program after it hassnowed and rained and much this week Santa
in much of our territory, ameteor not very conducive to venture to make
long journeys, but yes for afterwetting out there if we have gone out
to walk, then, to goback home, give us a warm shower
(00:46):
and curl up on the couch towatch a good mountain movie or to hear
why not great adventures like those werelate in our podcast, Jorge, how
you have been through this in theNorth. A lot of rain out there,
or not, well, a lotof rain, a lot of cold,
but you know that out there,because we are always warm, eating
(01:08):
with good vido to which we havethe recipe to survive the cold. It
' s okay. Hello, ElenaHello, Dear listeners, we return to
the sound of the Adventure with threeguests who will take us on great trips
around the world, you know,but also on great inner journeys. We
are accompanied by Antonio de la Rosa, Raúl Lora and Virginia de Iglesias,
with whom we will talk about mountainsand horizons, but also about how they
(01:32):
change us and place us in life. Welcome to our podcast, the sound
of the Adventure. Well, then, there are friends who, after these
(01:57):
days of Bucks, send you amessage by Whatsapp telling you that they have
been in such a city or eatingin such a restaurant and send you the
picture or that they have come outof procession even and then there are friends
who send you a whatsapp telling youthat they have been sailing in a gulet
to the Antarctic to row there onsurf pad boards or pedaling with some water
(02:21):
bikes. And that friend couldn't be other than Antonio de la Rosa.
Antonio, how you' re welcomeonce again to our podcast. By
the way, it' s aswell as you know, before you get
into the matter, Antonio, you' ll ever stand still. You at
home, snuggled up on the couch. I do, but I' m
nothing married, I mean, I' m ever staying at home, I
' ve got a standup in thefireplace and I' m ever staying home
(02:44):
with the family, but not,as my mother rightly says, if she
' s calmed down the house won' t get me sure? Sure?
Sure, because we' re probablysaying that all of a sudden, because
that' s what you get frompeople who tell you what their Santa week
has been like. Well, thenall the normal stuff, no, and
(03:04):
then I get a whatsapp of yoursthat I see you' ve gone sailing
for a month on the part ofIra suffering to Antarctica and I say but
if this man has gone again.Well, that' s what we'
re gonna talk about after your lastbig adventure and challenge you got last year.
At the end of the rowing andsailing journey from Cape Horn to South
(03:25):
Georgia, following the footsteps of Shackeltonand sailing alone about two thousand three hundred
and eighty kilometers through the ills toAntarctica. You' ve returned to Antarctica
this March. You don' tget tired of traveling to that content and
besides, Mira had a lot ofdesire to step on the Antártira, really
(03:46):
because of course the other time,last year, I tried to reach the
Antarctic Peninsula and in the end,because the wind flowed to me. I
was not allowed to reach the AntarcticPeninsula for about a hundred miles and in
the end I met the real goalof the trip, which was to reach
South Georgia. But he can't go to Dalantarte, which I already
wanted to do. And the opportunityarose for me, because a year ago
(04:08):
I went as a professional guide withthe crew of joy sailors and the gulet
to the doublon to Antarctica, andwell, I have not let miss this
occasion and finally I have been ableto go to the Antarte and, moreover
and meet two objectives that had mind, first to reach the Antarctic peninsula and
(04:29):
then to try to sail and tobe able to row on a pad of
the south that had never been madein the circle by ananthartic, that for
that we have to reach with him, with the sail to the parallel sixty
- six, thirty- three,forty- four, that is very south
from where it is usually going witha sailboat and well we have been able
to get it. In addition,accompanied by a group of we could call
them customers, although in reality theyare friends and people who have trusted in
(04:51):
this project to go with us andenchanted of life hear. But and this
sailboat is a normal sailboat, agulet, no, the doubloon is called
yes, yes, that' snot very normal, as it' s
a steel vebook. Logically, becausein the end, because you have to
go through places, between icebr betweenice zones and it is not very normal.
(05:15):
The sailboat is a very resistant veil, prepared to withstand these conditions,
a sailboat that has been made inCanada and that wears a great captain named
Paula, which is a machine.She was the only woman on the team
and it was the one that sentus all we went in the capital nine
sixteen people, thirteen, three crewand twelve others. And the truth is
(05:40):
that it has taken us all wellstraight and no point of comparison with this
expedition in company and with friends asyou say or customers, and that last
year' s adventure and the badtaste of the captain' s mouth are
(06:01):
logically pirates, nothing to see.First good, because he has gone with
established professionals, really, with theballot to the doubloon of sailors alería that
are professional people, would be witha captain who has been involved in the
adventure from the first minute, thathas managed to take us to the sixty
- six, when not even thatwas in any contract and has made an
(06:21):
effort to arrive to the contrary thanthe year precedence, that he had contract
with a ship that was to accompanyme and left me abandoned. As you
know, the ship of the shipof the Ezekiel and the truth is that,
at the level of adventure and aboveall of difficulty and dangers, it
(06:42):
has nothing to do with it.This is an organized journey that, although
we have not really had to passthe sea of ounces these five hundred miles
with waves and wind, well,it is a sailboat that crosses it in
three four days, that we lookfor a good window of time, both
to go and to return. Andeven though, logically, most people end
up getting dizzy, because it is, because the sea there moves a lot
and it is a hard adventure foranyone to see. In the end,
(07:08):
I spent twenty- six days withwaves of five meters, with a lying
of sixty knots, rolling around withthe battery full of water, the ship
half flooded the other. It wasa committed and risky adventure. And this
has been a nice adventure to overcomefor many, but without any real risk.
Of course you, to get dizzy, you need stronger things, as
(07:31):
the truth knows, luckily and Icross my fingers. I' ve never
felt dizzy today and so on.The truth is that when one goes clear
on this ship I have been witha crew seventeen people and thirteen at some
point have become dizzy. So whenyou see it and you also see some
people who get dizzy really get dizzyand pass it off and I say well,
what luck. In fact, Ithink that if I got dizzy I
(07:53):
wouldn' t do anything at sea, because it has to be very hard
or not that your body tells youlisten, don' t stain grass,
it' s not clear, notthat it has to be tremendous besides the
dizziness this boat that no longer youleast I am not a mariner, much
less, but when it has givenme I have gone by boat and gives
(08:13):
you the dizziness, it is nolonger difficult for me to be a person,
I am not people. Indeed,listen and then the experience of good,
for draw the table of peace fromthe south that you carry there with
you where you go How you havebeen rowing through those waters. That was
so cool. I had already rowedin ice water, as I did in
(08:33):
Greenland, but this time it hasbeen but everything has also been a bit,
as I always go alone and suchthe head has been very accompanied.
In fact, we have been agroup in which came people who were pyragustastas,
who have even come a racing canoeerfrom Valladolid and friend MiguelÁngel and
have been able to paddle in canoeseveral others. We were going with the
southern parent boards of that PC andthen it has come to a very curious
(08:56):
group of some guys who are theinventors of the table subtract, which is
like a southern pallet table, butwhich moves pedals, it carries an axis
that causes the board to move pedalingthen. For them it was a dream
many years ago when they invented this, this bike friend Josephe Jay and Luis.
(09:16):
For them it was a dream toever be able to pedal in the
carrot. With those crises and lookthey have been able to fulfill it.
They have come with us, theyhave come with the production team also of
visual well that they will also releasea documentary soon in Netflix And, well,
it has been. We have goneinto three different types of markings,
all of them rowing pedals, allof them sustainable, medium environmentally, 100
(09:39):
% and it has been very nice, in a very cool experience to be
able to share with a lot ofpeople those activities. We have rowed on
the island of exception, where isthe Spanish base Gabriel de Castilla, we
have cremated also in front of thatof the Antarctic base of Bernasky, which
is the Ukrainian base. We havebeen able to visit the basucraniana, that
well, as soon as we arrive. He is very grateful for the great
(10:01):
welcome and the great help that theSpanish people have given to Ukrainians in these
difficult times for them. So,well the truth has been very nice and
very sentimental that vigitated to the Ukrainianbase of Antarctica. And well, in
the last few goals, I've managed to pedal and row in the
(10:22):
circus, the Antarctic bowl. That' s so nobody' s gone until
yesterday and it' s way down. It' s very cold, already,
very emotional, yes, very emotional, for everything you count. And
then, finally, you' vealso skied, you' ve skied on
your way, too, in casesomething was missing. In case something was
missing, we stopped you one dayon Copperville Island and there the veneer could
not access the coast. All Idid was with the Southern father board.
(10:46):
I had taken the skis just incase as I don' t always know
all about this is how much headis done in case here I had taken
my skis and went to Copperville Islandand well, because I could come rowing
with the father of the South withthe ski boots and skis on the board
and I made that cover of twohundred and fifty- two meters on the
crossing that well, since I wasthere, I did it a couple of
(11:07):
times so I could enjoy a greatdescent among penguins that I believe is what
has surrounded the island. The truthis that an adventure very chila, muchula
and that pull that I take toremind all the listeners of this podcast that
we will repeat the experience in Februarytwo thousand twenty- five and that we
(11:28):
are already open the places of discriptionand hope that the group will be filled
again, because this yes, thatis an unforgettable trip. Hey, but
where do you have to sign upin Joy sailors, Joy marine, Joy
marine for my network that is orfor my social networks. That' s
where we send them all the information. We' re not going to refuse
an expensive trip, because it's a very, very special trip,
(11:52):
but it' s unforgettable and Ithink it' s worth spending the savings
on this, because in the endlife there' s only one and you
have to take advantage of and dosome kind of things that really fill you
up. Of course, of course, Antonio, here we have Jorge,
who also wants to ask you aquestion. Yeah, hey, hey,
Antonia, how you doing. Itried to steal the last question from Elena
and you spoke before captain precisely andMira, my girl, Carmen, is
(12:18):
about to examine the per of theboatmaster' s title and was going to
start making her first piritos, herfirst adventures. What advice would you give
to someone who wants to come upwith his first projects. Well, look,
I don' t know. Idon' t know if I'
m the person to give advice inthat regard. I' m going to
confess now that he won' tlisten to anyone, I' m going
to tell him to leave in SouthPeace alone. Don' t look at
(12:41):
what I' m going to tellyou, maybe you don' t know.
I have crossed four oar oceans,as you know, to see if
I can do the Indian next year, which will be my fifth ocean,
and I have not even the title. I can' t get a little
zodia, so that' s whyI' m telling you, but then
you won the race and everything,and I don' t even have the
(13:03):
title. And I' m temptedbecause I like it, but I'
m not. I' m notmuch of a title girl. But if
you like it, logically and wantto dedicate yourself to sailing and such getting
the knowledge to see is important,I lowered it. Well, I'
m going a little bit to checkon all that, but let' s
(13:24):
go if she likes it there andif she knows that the ship captain'
s degree and she hires her forjoy. Veniero para idelantartide. When you
have all the degrees, the firstthing you' re going to do is
send the. The Antarctic is theCouncil, the fantastic band. Thank you
(13:45):
very much, thank you very much, Anterio, always delighted. We are
listening to your adventures and, sinceyou are not going to stay in almost
you will have many more at once, we will hear you soon, back,
soon, soon. We' realready entangled. We are this indian
and before the indian I have inmind a little thing that you will tell
each other is worth mother, mymother, my mother, well, you
(14:05):
don' t drop the roof.Indeed, I have to follow the advice
of Mommy who doesn' t fuckup my roof at home. A very
strong hug. Thank you, Antonio, a little hello, guys. Chacho,
Gracias, Chao Chao Oxígeno the podcastof the author' s passionate,
author method. Recently I had theopportunity to travel to Chamonís on a trip
(14:43):
organized by the French brand Milette andwell there we made a journey through the
Glacier at the foot of the Dumidiguil and near Mont Blanck, accompanied by
the guides of the prestigious gy companyof shamon sponsored by the brand. There
I also met Roberto Muñoz, thesecond Spanish guide to enter the historical company
(15:05):
of Chamoni, after Simón Elias,collaborator certainly of Oxygen and with him with
Roberto, I am talking about thedifferences between the formation of guide in Spain
in the Alps, of his workand following this interview that I did Raúl
Lora, who is always there attentiveto what we publish in oxygen, because
(15:28):
I call myself Raúl hora who ispresident of the Spanish Association of Mountain Guides.
I am very interested also to talkabout these differences or not similarities.
Now we will see him talking withhim and the work situation of the guides
in Spain, and we found itvery interesting to discover more of the work
(15:48):
of the people who guide us onthe mountain and help us to fulfill our
challenges and dreams Hello Raul welcome alsoonce again, to the sound of the
adventure hello. Elena good afternoon,how are you, because very well here
ready to talk to you to tellus about the work situation of the guides,
the work that you do that manytimes we have spoken other times also
(16:12):
in the podcast, perhaps unknown andalso like you, you have to form.
And, well, if there iswork here for so many guides or
there is no work that you tellus a little bit to see if they
add up to the unfortunately, tothe lists of unemployment or unemployment or,
(16:37):
on the contrary, there is alot of work, because to talk about
it, I would start by distinguishingbetween the four specialties of sports technicians that
exist, the four mountain guides,the four specialties of mountain guides that currently
exist in our country, because thesituation of each one of them is very
different. So, to make itclear to the listeners, there are four
(17:03):
specialities of mountain guide of sports technicianthat is what is called the degree that
we have the mountain guides, ofwhich you have been talking so far,
it is the degree of top sportstechnician of high mountain or high mountain guide,
which are those that normally we havethe international belief uia GM, that
allows us to work practically all overthe world in a legal way. It
(17:26):
would be, as I say,the top sports technician on the high mountain.
And then there' s the mid- mountain sports technician, with his
specific half- mountain credential called huimla, and that credential also allows them to
travel around different countries of the worldworking in compliance with the legal requirements of
each of those countries. Then therewould be the gorge technicians and the scale
(17:51):
technicians. These are the four specialitiesof mountain guides who boast that they are
part of the Spanish Association of Guides. They are the four titles that give
capacity for those who form mountain daysin our country. As you said before,
the situation of each of them isquite different in the case of high
(18:12):
mountain days, which is what youstarted talking about, because the truth is
that our country currently has more demandthan supply. I mean, we need
more high- mountain guides. Thereare very few of us, particularly in
Spain. With the international credential ofthe Uia GM, there are approximately hundreds
(18:36):
and seventy of which of those hundreds, about one hundred no longer exercise,
some because they have retired and othersbecause they are engaged in something else.
So let' s say that forall of Spain there are seventy high mountain
guides uya gemes plus about three hundredand fifty two hundred approximately active that would
(19:00):
be the ancients. I say old, because it is a situation of the
previous decree that regulated all this,which was called high- mountain sports technician
medium- grade sports in high mountain. So, in total, we'
re talking about making fast numbers ofabout two hundred and fifty to three hundred
people active to cover all the demandin Spain and maybe it' s pulling
(19:22):
high. That is to this day, very little and more, when it
is a bit, so came thecall that I made you to talk about
all this more, when many timesin high mountain training centers, specific high
mountain put show as paradigm of thework of a high mountain guide, as
the example to follow working in theAlps. That, from my point of
(19:47):
view, is an absolutely personal opinion. Of course, it' s a
mistake. First, because we donot meet the demand for a purely pragmatic
point of view, we do notmeet the demand of our country. And
secondly, because it carries another problemthat has a star wrotfixion that, like
many others, but ours maybe alittle bit more, it is very difficult
to reconcile the personal or the familyor the professional. So, if you
(20:11):
have a profession where you' relooking to spend three months working the Alps,
traveling from here to there, workingsomewhere else. That in a time
of your life is something very nice, very rewarding, very enriching, but
in the long term it should notbe an example to follow, because it
(20:32):
generates many other problems. When wefinish our training, we all want to
travel and work in different mountain ranges, in different places in the world.
In the early years they are normal, but then came a time when,
honestly, what you want most atwork is not to go back to Mont
Blanc or go back to the term, but what you want most is either
(20:55):
to travel on time with your clientsof your whole life, or to work
close to home, in activities inareas that you know more or less well
that it costs you less to organizethe work and that, of course,
that is the most important thing,in the end it allows you to return
home and thus combine your personal lifewith your professional life. So that'
(21:17):
s the problem with the high mountainguides, the top high mountain sports technicians.
I find it so surprising that itis true that there is that lack
of offer. I would never havethought about it when you told me,
well because I don' t knowmaybe I still have the old image or
(21:40):
think that people don' t goto mountain guides because they don' t
like to pay or for the eastif I can do it, that ignorance
or ignorance would call it from work, but well, it' s a
very positive thing that there is thatdemand. And now the negative is that
the guides, maybe you think thatpart is that they go out looking for
(22:03):
activities in the Alps a little tosatisfy their desire to do activity in the
personal Alps, rather than for customers, rather than to look for customers.
Maybe it' s because you wantto go to the Alps. Well,
by the way, I also domy own activity for myself, to satisfy
(22:25):
my desires or my desires. Yesalso because of a somewhat confused view of
the economic part of the work ofthe days in our country and outside our
country. Many colleagues make fast numbersand say it' s not clear that
in summer Jamaican working with customers thereor even for a company, they will
(22:52):
pay me four hundred euros a dayis more than what is charged in Spain.
Yes, of course, but youhave to tell him all the tragic
expenses they have living in France,of course and more, in a place
like Chamanís, where everything is muchmore expensive than if you live the biggest
of Espino or in Sotres or inVenázquez, yes or in the French titeo,
(23:15):
that is, in the Alps theyall multiply, of course, that
is, that is then there isthat economic part. Then, there too
the part uses a little of havingthe work of the idealized Alps that comes
to them quite because they are quiteinfluenced by the training they receive. When,
in fact, in Spain we carry, that is, the guides have
(23:37):
been working. I' m nottelling you in the same years as the
high ones, because it' snot true. But since the beginning of
the last century there have been mountainguides in our country and in those since
to put a few figures of directtwo three decades, the mountain guides earn
in life worth in our country.I have spent more than twenty years dedicating
(24:03):
myself uniquely and exclusively to my alreadyhigh mountain work. I say of them
and, as I told you before, I am no company. I am
an autonomous who works only with clientswho contact me to do activities or train
in the area that is related tothe mountain and sometimes I cannot meet the
demand that I have the more companiesthat, for example, of Pyrenees,
(24:26):
need several guides to work, thatdo a much bigger marketing job than mine
and that reach more people need moredays to work and we do not have
them. That in the case ofHigh Mountain is also true that it is
hard and very vocational work. Itmay seem from the outside it is easy
(24:51):
to have the vision idealized, becauseit is a very nice job, very
romantic, very enriching. I loveit, but it' s not a
job I mean, you don't have to fool the new generations,
you have to make it clear thatit' s very nice, but it
' s very hard what you saythat' s not idealizing. And well,
even if you can have the dreamof working in Shamonís and continue,
(25:15):
because that works in such a legendarycompany as, by the way, it
must be already over- exploited therefull of guides come out from under the
stones, because as for the peopleof Europe or the world, it wants
to be lead Chamonis. Well then, let the new generations also know that
here you can also perform very technicalactivities and work as guides, if it
(25:41):
is something vocational, because you dotechniques and not techniques. I mean,
in the end you' re atthe customer' s service and I imagine
you' ll be satisfying and leadingpeople to meet their challenges, no matter
what level they may be. Andthen let us not fool ourselves that if
what we use as an example isthe Alps, the Mont Bland massif,
(26:07):
in the first place, the guidesof Chamonís do not want to work in
summer. There, many of themdo not want to work and are increasingly
shortening their season because of the amountof objective dangers there are and the massification
of the most popular routes and therisks that I carry. Few times ago
there is a very interesting article aboutthe frequency with which stones fall into the
(26:30):
black dot. Let' s saythe normal Mont Blanc route, what they
call the bowling alley the corridor,if everything under wooter' s shelter and
at the time of least frequency wasaround three minutes. That is, every
three minutes stones fall in a placebecause you have to pass yes or that
is a risk effectively that it isa lottery that is, and you are
(26:51):
very likely to fall a stone uncleto your customers And then what would be
good if it reached those new generationsis that in the profession of guide it
has always been a craft profession,so to speak, that is, of
a mountain craftsman, a guide whoworks autonomously that to whom they told their
(27:11):
clients and lives normally in the valleyin which he works and leaves punctually.
That was the job of guiding theAlps for over a hundred years. However,
now, perhaps with the globalization ofeverything, we do not want to
be constantly here. There' sthat way, which isn' t sustainable.
(27:33):
I am no longer going to gointo climatic aspects, but what is
certainly not sustainable is on a personallevel, because in the long term you
are faced with many other problems.It' s not what you' re
saying. You can keep it fora few years, but not your whole
life and, in fact, youalso have to good, because in the
(27:55):
end they were the guides, theywere the local guides. That' s
why you were going somewhere. Idon' t know where you mainly work
in Europe, and because you onlyknow the territory, because you get up
and lie down. There you areevery day moving through those mountains and you
have the knowledge and experience to guidethere, not in other mountains that,
(28:17):
perhaps, are more unknown. I' m not saying you can' t
work, but maybe, because youknow less about a mountain in the Himalayas
than the almanzor ascent. That isso, that is, it is much
more comfortable in quotation marks within howuncomfortable our work is. Much easier to
work in your way that you endup having everything very controlled every detail of
(28:41):
the mountains that surround you than beingconstantly going from one side to the other.
But anyway, this is something.It' s problematic, just as
much of the hera tanñas of effectiveness. We need more and change that paradigm
of thinking that then you hear theideal is not going to the Alps to
(29:02):
work. The ideal is to bein a season of the Alps to train,
acquire more experience and then settle ina place where you can combine your
personal life with your professional life.That as for the high mountain warrior,
however, in half mountain ravines andclimbing, practically what happens is the opposite.
(29:23):
That is to say, here aretwo problems that ultimately unite with each
other, which is, on theone hand, that the regional administrations do
not primarily recognize the dangerousness of theactivities that we do as guides and with
(29:45):
which they do not require in theirdecrees of regulation of active tourism, that
the qualification necessary to work is thatof sports technician, thus reducing the importance
to the safety of the users,and this makes that the sports technicians have
to compete with many other degrees weare going to say secondary in terms of
(30:10):
hourly load, that is, degreeslike that of sports engine, for example,
a free time monitor that in someautonomous communities is recognized. Half-
mountain sports technicians, especially gorges andclimbing, have to compete with other such
graduates who offer activities at ridiculous pricesbecause they are not professionals, they don
' t even sometimes have to bedischarged. Sometimes he doesn' t have
(30:33):
insurance, but he doesn' thave the expenses a professional can have.
This coupled with the fact that thisformation as a mountain track has become a
bit fashionable in recent years and thereare training centers that have taken advantage of
the pull and that we are talkingabout about 300 half- mountain guides leaving
in Spain each year. Here passesthe high mountain and high mountain, high
(30:59):
mountain with the belief of Luia GM, to tell you the approximate average I
will tell you about six people.There are three years out and there are
ten years out, but about sixseven people a year or international belief to
be able to work in the Alpslegally. Of course it is a stress
(31:21):
and the other are extreme, becausethey are very interesting reflections, Raúl,
so that they remain, for anotherprogram and to continue chatting. I don
' t know here we have,I don' t know how we can
reach a solution or communicate and tryto reach out to those new generations who
(31:49):
are being trained so that they havea range of possibilities and see the opportunities
that also exist here in their terrain, in their territory, to work and
stay. So, thank you verymuch, Raul, for telling us all
this and for discovering these intricacies ofthe profession of guide so interesting, the
(32:12):
reflections you have made on it.Many thanks to IT aena and Oxigeno for
giving voice to the professionals of themountain and you know that, when you
want to collaborate. Thank you verymuch, Raul one hug good day another
for IT oxygen. We take theadventure there where you are great stories of
(32:37):
yesterday and today. Also last March, the second edition of the project was
presented to Lung, which aims tomake lung cancer visible through ascension to different
values of our geography, to siste, to martyr the disease and to show
(32:58):
that there are things that are changingthanks to prevention and science. Six new
summits in six autonomous communities will bepromoted by sports patients in companies, mountain
guides and their own soncologists. Oneof those guides is our guest Virginia Iglesias,
welcome Virginia, who we have hadbefore in this podcast Alberto Urtasu,
(33:20):
one of the promoters, but well, you are also in this project from
the beginning. Yeah, hey,well, yeah, that' s it.
I' m fine with the projectfrom the beginning, with the Pulmon
project, because I' m gladto have you with us again, to
talk to you that we haven't done it for a long time since
those walks in the mountains and Navarreforests and that well we ate also there
those days. I' m tellingyou, I' m telling you,
(33:43):
yeah, juatito bus we' restaying. The truth is that enchanted and
fascinated on that trip that we metyou and thanks to it we have also
known this project that seems wonderful tous and the one that we have already
talked about, but good that wewanted to tell us also your vision.
As you have, it has changedto you also to be able to see
(34:04):
the disease or patients from another perspectiveand how you help them also to overcome
and empower themselves. Yeah, well, nothing. The truth is that well,
since the project began, of courseI, not good, because you
have always had some contact with thedisease. But I am the truth that,
luckily, for now not very closeand good, then, being able
(34:27):
to live with them also, becausewith sickness, because you get into it
you learn a lot. So too, the truth that, personally, has
given me calmness in the face,for example, of this disease or others
that can get to how to takeit. Well, then, there are
(34:51):
limits that society sometimes imposes, oreven ourselves out of fear. Not because,
for example, in lung cancer,because you think you' re not
going to have some lung capacity,for example. And yet, because many
participants who have ascended with different summitswith lung, well they have realized that
(35:12):
they have achieved something that they thoughtthey could not do already since the diagnosis.
So, well, then, sharethat with them, see that they
exceed those limits, that they evenretake running or going out into nature,
climbing peaks or giving you walks thatthey didn' t, because the truth
(35:32):
that is super rewarding good and besides, has always helped to improve health,
including mental health. The walk amongthose forests, the trees, among the
mountains hears surveillance and that yes more, you have chosen for this year and
why, why you have chosen thesesummits, because this year the summits of
(35:54):
five communities will rise. Last yeartheir bide a six, they climbed six
and it is in a good veron, because also for distributing it throughout the
year, because the project then involvesa quite laborious logistics. Let' s
say no then, well, fordistributing it it has been done so.
(36:15):
This year we climb five summits offive communities in the Peninsula and then,
because we open international doors this yearthat we are very happy and already organizing
everything to climb Mount Ararat. And, well, let' s start this
month right now with a little week. We start with the Basque Country,
(36:36):
with the IT Corril, and thencontinue to climb the Almanzor. So,
well, it' s been raisedthis way and for now this year it
' s good, because there's a budget, because in the end,
this project is sponsored, especially byforms that collaborate and we' ve
(37:00):
managed to get the project out.I have the peaks and in Montenera in
your aunts, how beautiful and whatbeautiful peaks, also the ones you have
chosen. As you said, thedisease does not have to involve complications in
the mountain to see that there isa horizon in the time that you have
(37:22):
to be able to do things andmotivate yourself and remain what we are or
even better. The truth is,it' s a beautiful project to take
to the mountain. You as aguide, I imagine you feel something special.
Your profession is also something vocational andwe understand that you like people to
(37:45):
fulfill their dreams and help them todo so. But in this case,
moreover, it must be especially niceto reach those summits, to fulfill the
projects, the project of the wholeyear, yes, the truth that yes.
That is to say, for me, within my profession, it can
be the most exciting guides that Ihave worked on, especially because of the
(38:07):
fact that clearly reaching the summit forthem or not getting to share those days
that we share for them is superexciting. And then, in addition,
that they are shared with doctors,that is, because they raise doctors with
their patients and then, well thatthey can both one part and the other,
(38:30):
patients or affected and doctors share emotionshow they live the disease and how
also the doctor, how is hisprofession within this and remove those tables that
are in the consultations and that coldnessthat sometimes hospitals find themselves, because living
(38:50):
that and seeing that is super exciting. And well, always on the mountain,
when someone costs more and achieves itand we achieve it together, because
in the end it is to forma team, because it is very rewarding.
Yes well, Virginias, you asa project as a personal project.
(39:10):
You have some, some summit inmind for this year to ascend or you
have raised some project, or youhave too many things on your hands,
among your guiding work. You don' t also have the nordy walking Guadarrama
and come on, I think you' ll last the whole year, but
you have room for some project,some personal project. To your pine.
(39:30):
Yes, well, yes, itis true that we have everything quite complete,
because in the end the guides area little filling and complementing everything.
Then, in fact, I alsomake Nordic march, especially in the Sierra
de Madrid. Then I also livein Pyrenees. So, well, there
we also have other projects, likethe traking of the Golondrinas in summer and,
(39:55):
meanwhile, between some things and others, well, we will escape to
the level of personal leisure, surelyto Ecuador, to the Volcanoes of Hooboll
and the truth that that is theproject. We will climb some of the
volcanoes and well, because that willbe between May and June. So also,
(40:16):
because very excited by this personal projectand it seems to you a precious
project that is very good to helpothers to fulfill their dreams. No,
but today we also have to meetsome of our goals and have our goals
there. And he said he hearswhat a great destiny and what a good
adventure it looks like, Virginia.We are very happy to have you here
(40:38):
with us in the podcast and wewill be very attentive to everything about how
you are going to the project,that you will return with us to tell
us after each summit, when youblame the project, when you want you
will be here with the doors openso that you will tell us more,
(40:58):
so that you will bring us evensome guests who will also tell us their
personal experiences. Even talking to doctorswould be super interesting, because for them
too it has to be a fantasticexperience, not to go from the consulting
table or to the hospital, tobe with them, to go to the
mountain, to live those experiences,to live or simply to share a snack
there at the summit. Hell,it' s for them, too.
(41:20):
It' s also your dynamic changeand a little bit of life. Yes
Of course, I think the doctorswould be happy to talk to you,
to tell us their experience, bothdoctors and affected, because, well,
they live it very intensely both sides, as do we and the doctors.
For doctors it is a super enjoyableexperience for them, because besides, they
(41:45):
have the schedules full. Then,when they come to these experiences, they
disconnect and for them the truth isgood, for that, living with those
affected and seeing them outside the consultationsis very emotional for them. Virginia,
I was listening to you. Ihave let Jorge take the interview too that
(42:07):
I wanted to talk to you likeI was already in the presentation of the
second edition of Pulmon, in thatpresentation that you did and that you did
and nothing. Thank you that theproject and all the team that do such
beautiful and important work, also todestigmatize the disease a little and have another
(42:32):
vision of it. So thank youvery much. And we also spoke soon
for that, so you can tellus how this second edition of a Lung
went a hug, give it,a hug, elena, thank you,
a pleasure to listen to you andnothing. We are very grateful at the
end of this project so that itwill be disseminated, dilevigibility. So thank
(42:52):
you, for this spread. Thanksa lot to the whole team to you
for a hug. And after thesestories that fill us with oxygen and reach
our hearts, we fire the soundof today' s adventure. See you
(43:16):
in the mountains,
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com