December 2, 2025 • 26 mins
Nicki & Mervyn discuss Thanksgiving and teamwork!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer and
traditional artist.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You're listening to paper podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You hear that music? He stole it off the internet,
just kidding. It's spicy beats, be e e t s
and he hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
(00:46):
A Thanksgiving? How is your Thanksgiving? Because I guess Thanksgiving's
gone at this point, right, uh?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Gone and over as they say, yeah, no, it was.
It was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We had a very I guess, untraditional Thanksgiving this year.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
When have you ever had well, I guess I can't
remember in any recent memory when we've had a traditional one,
which I don't. I mean, you know that's a relative term, right, right.
Most of the traditions are like less, not even one
hundred years old.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I would say that these past
couple ones, we've gone out of our way to be
non traditional.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Back to that word, again, So, I mean it was good.
Did anything inspire you? You want to make anything? Any
art come up?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Any art?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Definitely want to focus I guess on some projects I
feel like I've put on the back burner just in
terms of like costuming and maybe some covers and such.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Costuming. So if you're a textiles person, I want to
ask you then, like, if it's between costuming and I
guess you can correct me. How are you on word is?
But if it's between costuming and then pigment art whatever
you want to call it, which one would you choose?
(02:19):
If there's only one you could choose?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Oh gosh, that's so hard.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I mean, it's really tough because I feel like, I mean,
I feel like I'd have to just go traditional, and
I feel like the two D artwork is it's.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's just so accessible, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
And then I feel like it's like when you're working
with like fibers and such, you kind of have to
I don't want to say, have like a rough game plan,
but like you certainly have to have the materials on hand,
and then you know, it's it's it's.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
A little bit more involved versus just like.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Picking up a piece of paper, like you know, some
sort of drawing implement and having that.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So I guess I'll go with the two d art.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So in other words, you're more thankful for your tu
d art. I'm just I'm trolling out.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I mean, like at the end of the day too,
it's my bread and butter, so that's fair.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, Like what's your well, I have to ask what's
your favorite thing to kind of create in general? Then
like intuity, like what's your favorite thing?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh, definitely, like just character designs. I just like when
either original or pre existing characters.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, I just might like making them more funky clothes.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Okay, I guess that kind of ties into the textile stuff.
But okay, that's pretty cool. So you know, by no,
if by listening to this show, if you can't tell
we're on the road, you know, hey, that's how it is,
life on the road as an artist. And it's interesting
(04:02):
that you know, you say you're you know, you're definitely
more uh what do you call it? Drawn?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
To?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Like, wow, me and my puns, but trying to drawing
as opposed to to I guess three d art. But
what let's just say in this in this hellish choice
I've given you let's say then you get you got
like stuck with only being able to detect ale and
(04:30):
three D art, Like what like what would you do?
What would you do in that case? Like would that
be awful? Or how would you take it?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
No, it'd be great.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I feel like I'd probably go back into doing like
more performance art things or just like collaborating and involving
other people in it.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
When you said performance art, like what do you have
an example?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Not off the top of.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
My head, but I mean I think like even just
something as simple as like whenever you do put on
a garment, it sort of becomes the performance, especially if
you're showcasing it publicly.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Well, but okay, so I'll make an argument or more
of like this is like query. I remember, like you're
not really like that I am going to be the
character when you would do cosplay and costume stuff, You're not.
I'm not gonna be the you. So so it's interesting
that you mentioned the performance aspect of it. But you
did skits in the past, right, Yeah, you'd perform skits,
(05:27):
So like that's an interesting kind of like two different
things that run up against each other because you wouldn't
necessarily act out the character, you know, if you're right,
I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But like you're I and I and I say that,
but I mean if like if a whole mess of
like other people that were in a similar series or
just like characters that I liked were there, I mean,
I'd be interacting in like some way even if it
was like out of character. So to me, like, I
still consider that part of the performance.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Okay, okay, So so did you consider the skits performance
art like when you compete.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I don't know if I did, but looking back on it,
it was definitely, like, I mean, it did qualify, I
guess because you know, it was like a bunch of
us on stage and.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
We're certainly doing something.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, no, that's what I asked, because when you said
you can, you couldn't think of any I was like,
I think this is me coming at it from a
place where I don't know, definitely not my world. So
I was like, in my head, I had interpreted all
those skits like I've seen all your those trophies for
all those skits and the skits you've told me about
and some of the ones you would like to do
(06:43):
in future. So I was like, I thought, you know,
I thought that would be in that category. Did you
do performance art stuff in school?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. That's where I picked it up.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And it was fun to like do alongside I guess,
your fellow classmates who were also artists, or just see
what they were doing in terms of performance art.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Okay, So like an example that you have.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Any in college, I made this like very bizarre kind
of two person straight jacket garment and played like sort
of these makeshift instruments with one of my classmates. And
it was really bizarre because like obviously, and we were
(07:31):
also sitting like facing away from each other, so there
was like the physical restrictions of like you couldn't play
like certain instruments per se, like while the other person
was playing them. So I don't know what I was
trying to like commentate with that, but it was something.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Well, okay, I was gonna ask what was the message?
But you answered that, so I'm gonna ask what were
the instruments? Could either of you even play the instruments?
What did it sound like? And if you were to
think about it now, I mean I can repeat these
questions as well. If you were to think about it now,
(08:12):
what would be the message?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
When I say instruments, that's like definitely in air quotes.
I'm talking like there were like metal bowls and like
you know, like wooden sticks and stuff like that. So
like it wasn't like if we were not playing like
saxophone or whatever. It was just very like ragtag sort
of like we were buskin.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Oh, so you're the two Man group.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, yeah, take that Blue Man Group, yam. And then
like I feel like I don't know, if I were
to think about it and then come up with some
sort of like lofty sort of explanation for ending of that,
it would probably just be like being in a relationship
with someone and then it's just like about give and take.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
So was that a bad relationship that the music sound
like like trash? Or was it beautiful?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
It didn't sound great?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I'm not gonna lie, but I mean, I feel I
would like to think that like, uh, my friend and
I made some sort of like little pleasant enough cacophony
of sound that.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It was like it was something.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So I mean, and I feel like that's just relationships
in general. You know, they're not all uh happily ever
after fairy Tales.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
You know, is there a video of this or or audio.
I want to know what it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
No, I yeah, I don't. At most I might have
some photos on a hard drive somewhere. I certainly don't
think I have any like videos.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I know, no, I know.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I feel like at most what I could do is
probably just like recreate this. I mean, it's true, it's
it's that's a oh when we try to to like
draw a chev's yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, it's like, yeah,
you could just take like two sweaters and a lot
(10:10):
of you know, fabric in between, and you could probably
recreate this on your own.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I'm just speechless. Well I'm talking, but I'm speechless because, uh.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
It's hilarious because like at the time, I didn't even
think it was like that weird, and like I think
of some of the other performance art that like some
of my classmates are doing, and maybe it was a
little bit weirder, maybe it was a little less weird.
But like, yeah, it's like in retrospect, it it sounds
very artsy.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I mean, you know, is it weird though, because it's
like it's an art school, you're supposed to I feel
like you got the assignment. I don't actually what was
the assignment.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh, I don't even I think it was just to
collaborate with like one of your classmates on like something. Yeah,
I don't even know how we Yeah, I don't even
know how we came up with this. And I think
it was just like I had wanted to make some
sort of like crazy garment like that for like a
really long time and then yeah, that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I actually just did it, and there we were.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, so you guys enjoyed it, you learned something like
it sounds like like I said before, it sounds like
you got the assignment. That sounds like straight up art
school stuff. It's interesting because it's like a weird take
on improv. Yeah, if I were teaching an improv class,
I would literally do something like that. Sounds like a
good test because you could probably get some good magic
from the Reich like combo and chemistry. You get some
(11:37):
good magic because being boned together you end up just
turning two individual people into one being. It's a potato
sack race, you know, not potato. What's the one where
three legged race? Three legged race? Yeah, it's like an
upgrade to the three legged race. I mean those are hard, man.
They were, especially as children because you don't really understand teamwork.
(11:58):
It's true. I think it's hard from a lot of
adults too. But at least you know, if you sit
there and think about it for a while, maybe you
can figure your something out. But man, that's that's interesting.
So we're gonna change up the gimmick at the booth.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Huh yeah, it can be uh paper lab tandem.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
You know that sounds like something else too.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
They put us in another section of the convention.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, yeah, after dark hair. Oh boy, to man the
two man group. So I guess we have to both
look alike. So are you gonna shave your head? Or
do I have to grow purple here?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I think it'd be easier for you to may obtain
a purple wig.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Okay, I love how that. Uh you know, got an
answer real quick.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I could look for a both cap.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Oh no, you have to actually.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Have to commit, okay, okay, well yeah, that's a really
big commitment, just.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Like the real Blue Man group that stole our gimmick,
because you know, we can't up with two man.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Group first, right I do now?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, that we were performing at Circa Sill and all
that stuff. You're like, I just combined everything all the
weird art, because that's that's performance, all right, cert Blue.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Man Group, Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah, hence why I mix them up together. So all right,
so you did your performance, right, blah blah blah. So
you're saying, in this world where you can't do two
d art anymore, you'd probably just do be doing a
ton of that.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
So, Okay, I'm curious if given that assignment, know what
you would do.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I'd probably want to make the garment better. For one, Oh,
I don't know, it was like it was. It was
probably not like my finest craftsmanship. I remember this sippers
being a little jrinkie, and I don't know could have
been could have been better, But I feel like i'd
probably want I think I like used all the same
(14:09):
color fabric as well, and I feel like it'd be
more interesting to use like fabric for like different to
denote like the different person and then maybe have like
a dyed like fade in between the arms or something.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I mean, I want to pretend like I understand that
this is not any indictment on what you said. It's
just my lack of you know, like real knowledge about
that that world, that that stuff, because as simple as
what you might have you have said was it's like
I was like, man, so.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Like the place where the arm's connected. Yeah, I think
it'd be cool to have like a di gradient. So
like if like one of the if like one of
the jackets was like red and it was like going
into blue, that the middle would be like purple or something.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I kind of represent that like sort of coming together
like physically and metaphorically, like I like I'd want to put.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
More thought into it like that versus just like I'm
just gonna make this crazy garment.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
It's so crazy. Wow, two people.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
It's interesting that you critique it that way. But even
the way, like I said, I have never seen it.
I don't know what the whole thing was, but the
idea itself sounded like you said, nobody else in your
class did that. It's no but but that's but that
tells him that it was a truly creative idea.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Well, I mean that was the really cool thing about
like our non existent major anyway, is that it's like this,
I almost feel like it was like a home for
like the weirdest of the weird, and like the people
that were kind of just willing to put themselves out
there and make like very non conventional things.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Well, explain non existent major. Again you may have said
it on the show before, but you know, just for
people to kind of get an idea what you're trying
to throw at.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So the school that I applied for and got accepted
to had a major called the Interdisciplinary Arts, which basically
allowed you to take electives in any other major.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
That you chose.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
So, for example, one semester, I was welding things in
the sculpture department, like metal, like welding metal, and simultaneously
like learning how to knit in the fiber department. So
it was like it was pretty much just like a
like a pick and choose of what you wanted to
learn and then incorporating that into your own practice.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
It was like elective the major.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, and the really cool thing about it.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Is it was very independent focused, and you know you
pretty much like made your own hours and pretty much
your own curriculum, and.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You were kind of i mean like our our our.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Teacher was basically training us to have like our own
independent practice because you know, we were logging our hours,
we were logging like our courses.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, it was just very independently focused.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So it's interesting you say that because you know my well,
my whole school doesn't exist, so I guess I win. Yeah, right,
it were. No, I'm it's interesting because the major doesn't exist,
(17:31):
but you still got stuff from it, and that's there's
a there's a huge lesson in that, you know. I
mean a lot of times people kind of obsess over
the They obsessed over the degree or the whatever it is,
as opposed to the actual fact of learning stuff, because
there's a ton of people with degrees that don't actually
know anything about what the quote unquote degree you know, entail.
(17:57):
So it's really good that you were able to get
so much from that, like, you know, just to bring
it back to me, No, I remember having an elective course.
It was called honors class or anyway. The idea was
there's two versions of it. There was an honors version
that you had to get accepted to, and then there
(18:18):
was a regular version. And this class was similar to
your straight jacket thing, but it's you had to work
together on a like not a demo reel, but a
short animation, so jue what you're doing. You had to
a production style and yeah, you'd pitch it and not
(18:38):
pitch it. You'd submit it the school would submit it
on would be submitted on behalf of the school and
would be in a competition with other schools, and you know,
you could win awards and it probably get you a job, honestly,
like straight out of school. And I remember my buddy Damon,
and then a lady from Sweden. I can't I can't
recall her name because I didn't really nor that well
(19:00):
onto the group, and I remember we were so excited
for it. And the thing is because the other version
of the class was just a typical class where you'd
work on stuff together, do it for finals, whatnot, so
no offense to it. It wasn't necessarily that serious. So we
got picked for we were able to get into the
honors thing because we had to really, you know, because
you have to have good grades and you know obviously
(19:22):
teacher recommendation and all that. And you know, Deamon is
like demons, you know, a beast, and he still is
a beast. What am I saying? I was fairly good,
you know what I did. And uh, the Swedish lady
she was, she was really good, really really good. Uh,
And we all had good different disciplines. You know, he
was a technical guy. I was definitely a very artistic,
(19:43):
great modeler, good animator, and she was I forgot like
she was very all around a little bit more. Actually,
both of them were much more technical. And what's great
and he was a good quarter as well, And what's
great is that really helped balance me being like, let's design,
you know whatever. So it's like two really good buffers.
(20:06):
But they also loved creativity and they were creative themselves.
But you know, it's definitely we had a very good chemistry.
So we prepared before we even got the class. We
were doing pre production are We were like, yo, we're
gonna hit the ground running as soon as you know,
the next semester starts and we get into the class,
and right before went before you get to pick your classes, uh,
(20:31):
you know, pick your other classes, found out that they
canceled it because I think what's funny is I guess
previous years the people they chose were garbage. So they're like, yeah,
just kill it. And it's like, yo, you would have
had a winning team, man, yeah, mind you it would
have been hard, Like I don't know, maybe my other
classes would have suffered because we'd have you know, well,
(20:52):
I would have been putting like so much work into it,
and it was intimidating. I'm not sitting there saying I
was like, yeah, I'm gonna be no. I was terrified
class But that's why I wanted to do it, because
I know I had a leveled up you know what
I mean being around these like super talented people, like
we don't push would push each other, you know what
I mean, especially because we love we love dynamation at
(21:12):
the time, you know, we love we love creating. Like
it's a really great feeling. It's hard to explain, but
you know exactly what it is when you collaborate with
people that are It's not even that you have to
have the same ideas, but you just have the same passion.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Even just being surrounded by creatives makes all the difference
because I don't know what it is. It's something about
like the energy or like you can like have conversations
that I think, like don't necessarily need the same like
pretext that somebody that has maybe perhaps like a more
(21:48):
corporate job would need. It's just like you can just
be like, I have this idea and then you just
start talking about it. And the other person is like
perfectly willing to listen and sometimes even give suggestions.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Well, okay, and I don't want to be that guy.
I don't want to say. I don't think it's I
personally don't know if it's feared to say because of
a corporate job, but maybe a literal thinker, right.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Like okay, well then yeah because the types of.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, because I think the only reason why I said
it is because it's not to defend corporate jobs or whatever.
That's not it.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You can in a creative field and be in a
corporate job.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, and vice versa, you know what I mean. So yeah,
it was just to to you know, give some difference
and you know what I mean, it is what it is, right,
But but I agree to it totally. Where it's like
there's just like a weird it's like the Antennael sinking
up or I just said wi Fi is sinking up.
Like when when artists are creating just creatives of our
(22:46):
own creatives, because it doesn't mean you have to be
an artist, just you know, people who whose brands are
willing to kind of go outside the the typical you
know boundaries. You know that you're usually taught to keep
your your thoughts and ideas. I know I'm not talking
about whatever anyway. So yeah, man, we've been talking up
(23:11):
a storm storm. Yeah, and it's such a clear, great
day today. It's it's funny though not cold. Yeah, it's
just ugly and human.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It looks like it would be cold, but it's not.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
And that's what we're thankful for. So let me ask it,
you know, to kind of wrap things up a bit.
You know, we talked about a lot of stuff art,
you know, dead majors, the love of collaboration and all
that stuff. Is anything among this something you know, anything
(23:51):
you're thankful for, anything you want to add to it.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I mean, if I were to just summarize, i'd say,
like the jokes on them because my major I feel
like pretty much ended up becoming the future in a way,
because I think that obviously not all. But in order
to be a successful artist, I feel like in this
day and age, you do have to be a little
(24:15):
well rounded and you have to know, you know, not
just a B and C, but also like X, Y
and Z. So I feel like, you know, learning different
techniques and being able to apply them to my own
personal work has been very beneficial for me.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah, I hear that, and I'd say, you know, I'm
thankful to even hear this story like that. That was
a great story, the straight jacket. Like I mean, I'm
not being facetious or sarcastic, like I like, that's that is.
That is I would say at some high level like thinking,
(24:55):
just I love the fact that nobody else in where
probably people are like I will draw something and they
will color it and stuff like that. You made a
whole lash jacket and made music. It's it also speaks
to YouTube because you do love music, so it's I
feel like that was like an ultimate expression of you
(25:17):
and your thought process in many ways, even though you
think it's a wonky, like the idea is like, mm,
I know, I think it's a very Yeah, I don't know,
it's interesting. It's food for thought.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
It was something from like literally like fifteen plus years ago,
so I'm sure if I revisited it it would perhaps
be a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Fine tuned now.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Of course, and you know, maybe we will revisit it one.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Day stop by the paper Lab and find out.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, the Two Men group.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
You can listen to us on All Podcast platforms.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You can find us at payper app Studios on Instagram
or payperlap studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
And support us on Patreon at paper lab Studios.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Thank you for listening to.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Papa podcast a Mango Musica. Turn that music up.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer and
traditional artist.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You're listening to paper podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You hear that music? He stole it off the internet,
just kidding. It's spicy beats, be e e t s
and he hates beats. Let's check you out that SoundCloud.
(00:46):
A Thanksgiving? How is your Thanksgiving? Because I guess Thanksgiving's
gone at this point, right, uh?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Gone and over as they say, yeah, no, it was.
It was pretty good.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We had a very I guess, untraditional Thanksgiving this year.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
When have you ever had well, I guess I can't
remember in any recent memory when we've had a traditional one,
which I don't. I mean, you know that's a relative term, right, right.
Most of the traditions are like less, not even one
hundred years old.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I would say that these past
couple ones, we've gone out of our way to be
non traditional.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Back to that word, again, So, I mean it was good.
Did anything inspire you? You want to make anything? Any
art come up?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Any art?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Definitely want to focus I guess on some projects I
feel like I've put on the back burner just in
terms of like costuming and maybe some covers and such.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Costuming. So if you're a textiles person, I want to
ask you then, like, if it's between costuming and I
guess you can correct me. How are you on word is?
But if it's between costuming and then pigment art whatever
you want to call it, which one would you choose?
(02:19):
If there's only one you could choose?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Oh gosh, that's so hard.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I mean, it's really tough because I feel like, I mean,
I feel like I'd have to just go traditional, and
I feel like the two D artwork is it's.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's just so accessible, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
And then I feel like it's like when you're working
with like fibers and such, you kind of have to
I don't want to say, have like a rough game plan,
but like you certainly have to have the materials on hand,
and then you know, it's it's it's.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
A little bit more involved versus just like.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Picking up a piece of paper, like you know, some
sort of drawing implement and having that.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So I guess I'll go with the two d art.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So in other words, you're more thankful for your tu
d art. I'm just I'm trolling out.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I mean, like at the end of the day too,
it's my bread and butter, so that's fair.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, Like what's your well, I have to ask what's
your favorite thing to kind of create in general? Then
like intuity, like what's your favorite thing?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh, definitely, like just character designs. I just like when
either original or pre existing characters.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, I just might like making them more funky clothes.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Okay, I guess that kind of ties into the textile stuff.
But okay, that's pretty cool. So you know, by no,
if by listening to this show, if you can't tell
we're on the road, you know, hey, that's how it is,
life on the road as an artist. And it's interesting
(04:02):
that you know, you say you're you know, you're definitely
more uh what do you call it? Drawn?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
To?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Like, wow, me and my puns, but trying to drawing
as opposed to to I guess three d art. But
what let's just say in this in this hellish choice
I've given you let's say then you get you got
like stuck with only being able to detect ale and
(04:30):
three D art, Like what like what would you do?
What would you do in that case? Like would that
be awful? Or how would you take it?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
No, it'd be great.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I feel like I'd probably go back into doing like
more performance art things or just like collaborating and involving
other people in it.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
When you said performance art, like what do you have
an example?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Not off the top of.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
My head, but I mean I think like even just
something as simple as like whenever you do put on
a garment, it sort of becomes the performance, especially if
you're showcasing it publicly.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Well, but okay, so I'll make an argument or more
of like this is like query. I remember, like you're
not really like that I am going to be the
character when you would do cosplay and costume stuff, You're not.
I'm not gonna be the you. So so it's interesting
that you mentioned the performance aspect of it. But you
did skits in the past, right, Yeah, you'd perform skits,
(05:27):
So like that's an interesting kind of like two different
things that run up against each other because you wouldn't
necessarily act out the character, you know, if you're right,
I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But like you're I and I and I say that,
but I mean if like if a whole mess of
like other people that were in a similar series or
just like characters that I liked were there, I mean,
I'd be interacting in like some way even if it
was like out of character. So to me, like, I
still consider that part of the performance.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Okay, okay, So so did you consider the skits performance
art like when you compete.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I don't know if I did, but looking back on it,
it was definitely, like, I mean, it did qualify, I
guess because you know, it was like a bunch of
us on stage and.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
We're certainly doing something.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Well, no, that's what I asked, because when you said
you can, you couldn't think of any I was like,
I think this is me coming at it from a
place where I don't know, definitely not my world. So
I was like, in my head, I had interpreted all
those skits like I've seen all your those trophies for
all those skits and the skits you've told me about
and some of the ones you would like to do
(06:43):
in future. So I was like, I thought, you know,
I thought that would be in that category. Did you
do performance art stuff in school?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. That's where I picked it up.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And it was fun to like do alongside I guess,
your fellow classmates who were also artists, or just see
what they were doing in terms of performance art.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Okay, So like an example that you have.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Any in college, I made this like very bizarre kind
of two person straight jacket garment and played like sort
of these makeshift instruments with one of my classmates. And
it was really bizarre because like obviously, and we were
(07:31):
also sitting like facing away from each other, so there
was like the physical restrictions of like you couldn't play
like certain instruments per se, like while the other person
was playing them. So I don't know what I was
trying to like commentate with that, but it was something.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Well, okay, I was gonna ask what was the message?
But you answered that, so I'm gonna ask what were
the instruments? Could either of you even play the instruments?
What did it sound like? And if you were to
think about it now, I mean I can repeat these
questions as well. If you were to think about it now,
(08:12):
what would be the message?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
When I say instruments, that's like definitely in air quotes.
I'm talking like there were like metal bowls and like
you know, like wooden sticks and stuff like that. So
like it wasn't like if we were not playing like
saxophone or whatever. It was just very like ragtag sort
of like we were buskin.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Oh, so you're the two Man group.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, yeah, take that Blue Man Group, yam. And then
like I feel like I don't know, if I were
to think about it and then come up with some
sort of like lofty sort of explanation for ending of that,
it would probably just be like being in a relationship
with someone and then it's just like about give and take.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
So was that a bad relationship that the music sound
like like trash? Or was it beautiful?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
It didn't sound great?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I'm not gonna lie, but I mean, I feel I
would like to think that like, uh, my friend and
I made some sort of like little pleasant enough cacophony
of sound that.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It was like it was something.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
So I mean, and I feel like that's just relationships
in general. You know, they're not all uh happily ever
after fairy Tales.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
You know, is there a video of this or or audio.
I want to know what it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
No, I yeah, I don't. At most I might have
some photos on a hard drive somewhere. I certainly don't
think I have any like videos.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I know, no, I know.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I feel like at most what I could do is
probably just like recreate this. I mean, it's true, it's
it's that's a oh when we try to to like
draw a chev's yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, it's like, yeah,
you could just take like two sweaters and a lot
(10:10):
of you know, fabric in between, and you could probably
recreate this on your own.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I'm just speechless. Well I'm talking, but I'm speechless because, uh.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
It's hilarious because like at the time, I didn't even
think it was like that weird, and like I think
of some of the other performance art that like some
of my classmates are doing, and maybe it was a
little bit weirder, maybe it was a little less weird.
But like, yeah, it's like in retrospect, it it sounds
very artsy.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I mean, you know, is it weird though, because it's
like it's an art school, you're supposed to I feel
like you got the assignment. I don't actually what was
the assignment.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh, I don't even I think it was just to
collaborate with like one of your classmates on like something. Yeah,
I don't even know how we Yeah, I don't even
know how we came up with this. And I think
it was just like I had wanted to make some
sort of like crazy garment like that for like a
really long time and then yeah, that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I actually just did it, and there we were.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah, so you guys enjoyed it, you learned something like
it sounds like like I said before, it sounds like
you got the assignment. That sounds like straight up art
school stuff. It's interesting because it's like a weird take
on improv. Yeah, if I were teaching an improv class,
I would literally do something like that. Sounds like a
good test because you could probably get some good magic
from the Reich like combo and chemistry. You get some
(11:37):
good magic because being boned together you end up just
turning two individual people into one being. It's a potato
sack race, you know, not potato. What's the one where
three legged race? Three legged race? Yeah, it's like an
upgrade to the three legged race. I mean those are hard, man.
They were, especially as children because you don't really understand teamwork.
(11:58):
It's true. I think it's hard from a lot of
adults too. But at least you know, if you sit
there and think about it for a while, maybe you
can figure your something out. But man, that's that's interesting.
So we're gonna change up the gimmick at the booth.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Huh yeah, it can be uh paper lab tandem.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
You know that sounds like something else too.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
They put us in another section of the convention.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, yeah, after dark hair. Oh boy, to man the
two man group. So I guess we have to both
look alike. So are you gonna shave your head? Or
do I have to grow purple here?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I think it'd be easier for you to may obtain
a purple wig.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Okay, I love how that. Uh you know, got an
answer real quick.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
I could look for a both cap.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Oh no, you have to actually.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Have to commit, okay, okay, well yeah, that's a really
big commitment, just.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Like the real Blue Man group that stole our gimmick,
because you know, we can't up with two man.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Group first, right I do now?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, that we were performing at Circa Sill and all
that stuff. You're like, I just combined everything all the
weird art, because that's that's performance, all right, cert Blue.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Man Group, Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah, hence why I mix them up together. So all right,
so you did your performance, right, blah blah blah. So
you're saying, in this world where you can't do two
d art anymore, you'd probably just do be doing a
ton of that.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
So, Okay, I'm curious if given that assignment, know what
you would do.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I'd probably want to make the garment better. For one, Oh,
I don't know, it was like it was. It was
probably not like my finest craftsmanship. I remember this sippers
being a little jrinkie, and I don't know could have
been could have been better, But I feel like i'd
probably want I think I like used all the same
(14:09):
color fabric as well, and I feel like it'd be
more interesting to use like fabric for like different to
denote like the different person and then maybe have like
a dyed like fade in between the arms or something.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I mean, I want to pretend like I understand that
this is not any indictment on what you said. It's
just my lack of you know, like real knowledge about
that that world, that that stuff, because as simple as
what you might have you have said was it's like
I was like, man, so.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Like the place where the arm's connected. Yeah, I think
it'd be cool to have like a di gradient. So
like if like one of the if like one of
the jackets was like red and it was like going
into blue, that the middle would be like purple or something.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
I kind of represent that like sort of coming together
like physically and metaphorically, like I like I'd want to put.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
More thought into it like that versus just like I'm
just gonna make this crazy garment.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
It's so crazy. Wow, two people.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
It's interesting that you critique it that way. But even
the way, like I said, I have never seen it.
I don't know what the whole thing was, but the
idea itself sounded like you said, nobody else in your
class did that. It's no but but that's but that
tells him that it was a truly creative idea.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Well, I mean that was the really cool thing about
like our non existent major anyway, is that it's like this,
I almost feel like it was like a home for
like the weirdest of the weird, and like the people
that were kind of just willing to put themselves out
there and make like very non conventional things.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Well, explain non existent major. Again you may have said
it on the show before, but you know, just for
people to kind of get an idea what you're trying
to throw at.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
So the school that I applied for and got accepted
to had a major called the Interdisciplinary Arts, which basically
allowed you to take electives in any other major.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
That you chose.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
So, for example, one semester, I was welding things in
the sculpture department, like metal, like welding metal, and simultaneously
like learning how to knit in the fiber department. So
it was like it was pretty much just like a
like a pick and choose of what you wanted to
learn and then incorporating that into your own practice.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
It was like elective the major.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, and the really cool thing about it.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Is it was very independent focused, and you know you
pretty much like made your own hours and pretty much
your own curriculum, and.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You were kind of i mean like our our our.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Teacher was basically training us to have like our own
independent practice because you know, we were logging our hours,
we were logging like our courses.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, it was just very independently focused.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So it's interesting you say that because you know my well,
my whole school doesn't exist, so I guess I win. Yeah, right,
it were. No, I'm it's interesting because the major doesn't exist,
(17:31):
but you still got stuff from it, and that's there's
a there's a huge lesson in that, you know. I
mean a lot of times people kind of obsess over
the They obsessed over the degree or the whatever it is,
as opposed to the actual fact of learning stuff, because
there's a ton of people with degrees that don't actually
know anything about what the quote unquote degree you know, entail.
(17:57):
So it's really good that you were able to get
so much from that, like, you know, just to bring
it back to me, No, I remember having an elective course.
It was called honors class or anyway. The idea was
there's two versions of it. There was an honors version
that you had to get accepted to, and then there
(18:18):
was a regular version. And this class was similar to
your straight jacket thing, but it's you had to work
together on a like not a demo reel, but a
short animation, so jue what you're doing. You had to
a production style and yeah, you'd pitch it and not
(18:38):
pitch it. You'd submit it the school would submit it
on would be submitted on behalf of the school and
would be in a competition with other schools, and you know,
you could win awards and it probably get you a job, honestly,
like straight out of school. And I remember my buddy Damon,
and then a lady from Sweden. I can't I can't
recall her name because I didn't really nor that well
(19:00):
onto the group, and I remember we were so excited
for it. And the thing is because the other version
of the class was just a typical class where you'd
work on stuff together, do it for finals, whatnot, so
no offense to it. It wasn't necessarily that serious. So we
got picked for we were able to get into the
honors thing because we had to really, you know, because
you have to have good grades and you know obviously
(19:22):
teacher recommendation and all that. And you know, Deamon is
like demons, you know, a beast, and he still is
a beast. What am I saying? I was fairly good,
you know what I did. And uh, the Swedish lady
she was, she was really good, really really good. Uh,
And we all had good different disciplines. You know, he
was a technical guy. I was definitely a very artistic,
(19:43):
great modeler, good animator, and she was I forgot like
she was very all around a little bit more. Actually,
both of them were much more technical. And what's great
and he was a good quarter as well, And what's
great is that really helped balance me being like, let's design,
you know whatever. So it's like two really good buffers.
(20:06):
But they also loved creativity and they were creative themselves.
But you know, it's definitely we had a very good chemistry.
So we prepared before we even got the class. We
were doing pre production are We were like, yo, we're
gonna hit the ground running as soon as you know,
the next semester starts and we get into the class,
and right before went before you get to pick your classes, uh,
(20:31):
you know, pick your other classes, found out that they
canceled it because I think what's funny is I guess
previous years the people they chose were garbage. So they're like, yeah,
just kill it. And it's like, yo, you would have
had a winning team, man, yeah, mind you it would
have been hard, Like I don't know, maybe my other
classes would have suffered because we'd have you know, well,
(20:52):
I would have been putting like so much work into it,
and it was intimidating. I'm not sitting there saying I
was like, yeah, I'm gonna be no. I was terrified
class But that's why I wanted to do it, because
I know I had a leveled up you know what
I mean being around these like super talented people, like
we don't push would push each other, you know what
I mean, especially because we love we love dynamation at
(21:12):
the time, you know, we love we love creating. Like
it's a really great feeling. It's hard to explain, but
you know exactly what it is when you collaborate with
people that are It's not even that you have to
have the same ideas, but you just have the same passion.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Even just being surrounded by creatives makes all the difference
because I don't know what it is. It's something about
like the energy or like you can like have conversations
that I think, like don't necessarily need the same like
pretext that somebody that has maybe perhaps like a more
(21:48):
corporate job would need. It's just like you can just
be like, I have this idea and then you just
start talking about it. And the other person is like
perfectly willing to listen and sometimes even give suggestions.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Well, okay, and I don't want to be that guy.
I don't want to say. I don't think it's I
personally don't know if it's feared to say because of
a corporate job, but maybe a literal thinker, right.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Like okay, well then yeah because the types of.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, because I think the only reason why I said
it is because it's not to defend corporate jobs or whatever.
That's not it.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You can in a creative field and be in a
corporate job.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, and vice versa, you know what I mean. So yeah,
it was just to to you know, give some difference
and you know what I mean, it is what it is, right,
But but I agree to it totally. Where it's like
there's just like a weird it's like the Antennael sinking
up or I just said wi Fi is sinking up.
Like when when artists are creating just creatives of our
(22:46):
own creatives, because it doesn't mean you have to be
an artist, just you know, people who whose brands are
willing to kind of go outside the the typical you
know boundaries. You know that you're usually taught to keep
your your thoughts and ideas. I know I'm not talking
about whatever anyway. So yeah, man, we've been talking up
(23:11):
a storm storm. Yeah, and it's such a clear, great
day today. It's it's funny though not cold. Yeah, it's
just ugly and human.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It looks like it would be cold, but it's not.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
And that's what we're thankful for. So let me ask it,
you know, to kind of wrap things up a bit.
You know, we talked about a lot of stuff art,
you know, dead majors, the love of collaboration and all
that stuff. Is anything among this something you know, anything
(23:51):
you're thankful for, anything you want to add to it.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I mean, if I were to just summarize, i'd say,
like the jokes on them because my major I feel
like pretty much ended up becoming the future in a way,
because I think that obviously not all. But in order
to be a successful artist, I feel like in this
day and age, you do have to be a little
(24:15):
well rounded and you have to know, you know, not
just a B and C, but also like X, Y
and Z. So I feel like, you know, learning different
techniques and being able to apply them to my own
personal work has been very beneficial for me.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah, I hear that, and I'd say, you know, I'm
thankful to even hear this story like that. That was
a great story, the straight jacket. Like I mean, I'm
not being facetious or sarcastic, like I like, that's that is.
That is I would say at some high level like thinking,
(24:55):
just I love the fact that nobody else in where
probably people are like I will draw something and they
will color it and stuff like that. You made a
whole lash jacket and made music. It's it also speaks
to YouTube because you do love music, so it's I
feel like that was like an ultimate expression of you
(25:17):
and your thought process in many ways, even though you
think it's a wonky, like the idea is like, mm,
I know, I think it's a very Yeah, I don't know,
it's interesting. It's food for thought.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
It was something from like literally like fifteen plus years ago,
so I'm sure if I revisited it it would perhaps
be a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Fine tuned now.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Of course, and you know, maybe we will revisit it one.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Day stop by the paper Lab and find out.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, the Two Men group.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
You can listen to us on All Podcast platforms.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You can find us at payper app Studios on Instagram
or payperlap studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
And support us on Patreon at paper lab Studios.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Thank you for listening to.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Papa podcast a Mango Musica. Turn that music up.
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