February 4, 2025 • 23 mins
New show, new you! It's time for a fresh start and new beginnings, and we want to focus on learning new things and sharing our own experiences in return. We discuss the future of the show and how to navigate the ever-evolving art world.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to paper podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You hear that music? She stole it off the internet.
Just kidding. It's spicy beats b E E T s
and he hates beats. Let's check you out that sound thoud.
(00:45):
So we're both creators. I'm an illustrator and I you know,
I do do traditional art and I do digital art.
But I think my partner over here would probably argue that, no,
I'm a digital largest.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I think we can safely say that digital is your domain.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Okay, oh that was the name of a big effects
company back in the day. Do this sty like this
digital domain? I don't know. Everybody wanted to work there
when I was in art school. And you you you
are a what?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah? No, I'm an illustrator and I love doing fashion
design and design in general, and I would definitely say
that I'm more of a traditional artist. I love being
tactle with my work. That's something that's totally important to me.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And so we jumped right into the thick of it.
Didn't even say anything else, simply because that's kind of
what our lives are like. It's kind of like boom
boom boom, go go go, and we love it. Like
that's that's kind of why we're here. We want to
kind of share some of those adventures with you, share
what we've learned. You know, maybe some of the people
we've met might even show up once in a while.
(01:50):
I don't know, but it what's cool is, uh, this
is just a platform for us to kind of just
you know, chat, even though it's a one way monologuing. Well,
there's two of us. There's a dual log you sly dog.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
You caught me monologuing. What's that from The Incredible or
The Invincible? No, the Incredible Incredible?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, Incredible, The Invincibles that's the other.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's the other one.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was the one made by the Asylum.
You know, the Asylum they make all those like transmorphers
and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, the Invincibles. Yeah, so
we're just here, you know, chat with you guys. We
just want to touch base and just give you a
little insight into paper Lab and how we work. Though
(02:34):
I can tell you this is very inside baseball. The
name is not that common. But we got a message
they Olladay from someone and they thought we were a
different company, which has happened before. Yeah, which is, you know,
very interesting stuff, but you know, hey, it happens. So yeah,
we're we're here. We're talking about art. We're talking about
(02:58):
you know, what makes us tick, talking about you know,
why we do what we do, and you know, like
you said, I'm a digital artist. I can tell you
this much. Growing up, even though I started traditionally, I
so dreamt of being able to draw on the screen. Right,
It was such a dream like as a kid, Oh
my gosh, I was like, oh it was so cool
I could draw on the screen. And this is like
(03:19):
when mice just came into the vulgue.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
It's true. I think the amount of technological growth, like
the exponential amount of technological growth in like the past
couple of years has just been like a wild time
for artists.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, and I would say, you know, and this is
not the topic of the show. And it probably will
be a future topic, but I do see a few
cons to that because you know, I do feel a
lot of our young artists specifically have kind of are
using it as a crutch. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, yeah, that that should definitely be a topic the
pros and cons of like traditional and digital art.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, and maybe we'll even just brainstorm some of our
brainstorm and share some of our already planned ideas for
the show going forward in terms of topics, because you know,
it's it's gonna be a format where we kind of
share some of our thoughts on the craft, you know,
what we what we like doing, or you know, things
we'd like to learn to do, or just struggles or
(04:25):
challenges and triumphs that we've achieved, you know, over the years, and.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Just using like personal anecdotes to kind of you know,
share these these amazing events and like people that we've
met with you guys.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, so you know, one of the things we're going
to talk about, it's like some of the challenges or
injuries or sacrifices we've you know, had in terms of art,
definitely whether they're physical. I mean, maybe we'll get into
some of the more esoteric and you know, psychological sacrifices
later on, but no, we're definitely going to talk about
(04:59):
like actual injuries. Might even have little debates you know,
going forth. You know, we we while we work well together,
we definitely don't like the same things nor agree on
things like genres and whatnot. Like you know, she's she's
read a ton of other books. I've read other books like,
(05:19):
for example, snow Crash. That's something that Yeah, I'm not
trying to throw you onto the book that ton of things.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It's totally fine.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah you don't like snow Crash or you didn't like
the first page so you didn't read it.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, I uh, yeah, I'm I'm definitely I feel like
within the first five minutes of trying something, I can
tell you whether or not I'm a fan.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And that's fine. Like she doesn't like it, So it's like,
you know, we can probably find debates bit you know,
coming out of that where it's not saying it would
they be exactly this, But you know you're a big
Lord of the Rings person. Yeah, I love Neil Stevenson,
So that's in and of it. So am I going
to say Neil Stevenson is best better than you know
(05:59):
the lay jr. Are No, I'm not gonna say that,
but maybe we'll just talk genres.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah. So having a little bit of like this or that,
a bit of tit for tat, well, I think create
like a healthy discourse and that. Yeah. I think people
will be interested to know our varying viewpoints on certain
topics and hopefully when something new along the way.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, that's that's that's always the whole. Personally, I can
say in some of our previous podcasts that we've dabbled in,
the idea was to stay in touch with people. You
know that. You know that one was in the pandemic
and we did exactly that this one. I think the
focus is this like personally, and you can chime in
(06:49):
and tell me your tick. I I you know, I
know people don't like the word education or in that way,
and even entertainment. It's kind of a grow to some people.
But I don't me personally, I don't see the point
of putting my time into anything if I can't get
something out of it in terms of like like enriching.
(07:11):
It doesn't have to you know, rock my socks off,
but I like to at least learn something, you know
what I mean? Yeah, whether it's something more about something
already no or something I don't know, or just learn
about someone so I and I feel there was value
for that in the other show, but this one's definitely gonna,
I think, is going to be a much tighter package.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, I think it'll be a little bit more focus based.
I think we're gonna kind of, you know, kind of
like lock in on what it is on, like on
very specific like subject matter as well. I definitely know
that there's still a room for meandering, as we do,
of course, but I think like just having a more
pointed focus. And I think also, I mean I'm on
(07:55):
the same page. I think learning something, whether it's just
it's a it's a factual thing in terms of something
that we didn't know about before, or even just somebody's
viewpoint on something, I think can also be like educational
or eye opening in that way.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And you know, yeah, we'll probably have like those you
know episodes where friends show up, I mean, who knows,
maybe one will come up soon, who knows, or even
doing another show on well this is my favorite. We
did a top ten Worst Anime World and we ended
(08:32):
up with a top three. That is how prepared and organized.
We are here at the paperlag yes exactly. But it
was fun. But that's just an example of Yes, things
like that can still happen. These shows won't be as
long form, but they might evolve into that. It depends
on you, the listener, what you want. We only have
(08:55):
so much time, but we will gladly devote the time
if that's where you're engaged, or that's what makes you
more interested, or you know, if you if you like
the show, then let us know and we will do
our best to give you more of it.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
But we're definitely opening feedback. I think we just wanted
to try a shorter format so that you know, you
could kind of like listen in, get your you know,
weekly catch up with us, yeah, whatever you need.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, and you know, you go about your business and well,
weekly might be tricky. I think this is monthly monthly Yeah,
you know hey, and like I said, this is a
brainstorming session that we're letting you in on right now.
So you know, it can come maybe it can become
weekly again if you know, leg said, if we know
there's the demand, and then we can put resources toward that.
(09:43):
Because this year is gonna be quite an adventure. We
have a show almost every month, and the ones that
we don't have shows in the months, which is like
one month that we don't have a show in there
are other months where it's tripled or up. So it
makes up for that stack this year. So it's like,
(10:04):
what eighteen or seventeen shows.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, it's definitely in the Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, that's more than a year's worth. That's more than
one a month, guys, So you know, we have to
kind of plan accordingly. It's kind of why we haven't
we haven't done a show in a.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
While, so it's been a hot minute, I take blae.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, well you know, but yeah, we're back in the
satell and we love doing this. We love chatting to
each other, We love chatting to you. We love talking
to our friends on the show. And that's probably one
of the best things about it, catching up, learning, being
together and you just pushing the medium forward because we're
(10:46):
you're like, you know, we're pushing.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
The medium, the artistic medium forward here at the paper Lab.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Exactly exactly at the paper Lab, we pushed the medium
forward day in, day out.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
That sounds like one of those futuristic right here at
the paper Love.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Oh, you mean like I'm in Cyberpunk. Yeah, okay, well
you know Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven underrated game now before, yes,
deserve the higher sure. So let me ask though, like
what are you looking forward to, Like, is there a
topic that you're looking forward to talking about on this show.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I can't really say I have any like specifics yet,
but definitely one of the things that I'm looking forward to,
I think is like having sort of that conversation about
like this or that, so just kind of like ticking
two like very different opposing topics. Like for example, like
I know, I think we had like mentioned well, I
mean here's an easy one traditional versus digital, Yeah, or
(11:47):
something like sci fi versus fantasy. I know, also came
up and and just kind of relating that back to
our own artistic process, so sort of uh, you know,
stating like our argument for or against and it's like
how maybe like that affected like our own personal practice.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
No, that's fair, that's that's a good one. And uh,
I mean, you know, a nice debate is healthy, you know,
reasonable and sensible debate is always good. No you uh yeah,
right know you But you know, before you know, we
kind of get to the endpoint, because we have a
you know, a little bit of time left. What like
(12:27):
what got you into the art field? Why you're an artist?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That is a that is a long history. I think
that the wildest thing, like well, especially like considering my age,
I could almost say that I have been involved in
the fine arts for like literally half of the time
that I've been alive, if that makes sense, because basically,
like my entire education, I was involved in the fine
arts in some way. So I had the opportunity, I guess,
(12:56):
as like a small child for my preschool teacher to
recognize that I had artistic abilities even as early as that,
and she recommended an art teacher in my elementary school
to get under like tutelage with and she had an
art club that was an after school program, uh basically,
(13:18):
and through that I started entering everything from like watercolor
competitions to just like local art competitions and and often
like I would win them or you know, have my
talents be recognized for them.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I think it's funny because I saw one of your
trophies out of day and I was like, oh, what's
this fort is Like, I don't know she has that
many trophies for things, whether it's costuming, which is that
will be a whole other topic in one of these episodes,
or art or whatever, and it's like, I don't know, man,
I's just one of them threw it in a jump pile.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
No, that's true. I have my my trophies probably displayed.
But yeah, I mean if I were just quickly summarized,
So it was it was our art club in elementary school,
and then I went on to a an art magnet
middle school, and from there I applied to an art
(14:12):
magnet high school and was accepted, and from then I
went to a fine arts college. So it's just something
that's kind of been with me my entire life. And
I'm really actually like appreciative for like having something like
that to kind of just like be there for me
like always.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's good support. I mean, talk
about knowing what you wanted to from an early age.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, No, definitely, And I think like I think that
like as an artist, the most interesting thing over that
course of time has just kind of been sort of
like what art I make, because I would say that
like definitely starting off with like watercolor paintings, yeah, and
then like eventually you like going into like costuming and
(15:02):
performing arts. It's it's been a really fascinating journey.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Can I tell you? It's funny. So I'm not trying
to step over your answer here, but you kept saying artists, artists, artists.
And I remember during my school days, so you know,
I'm traveling during break, I'm traveling back to Jamaica, you know,
visit a family or want not spend time, and so
you know, customs all that stuff you put what you
do for a lit or what you do or you know,
(15:28):
if you go into school and whatnot. Then when I
graduated and stuff, my sister would say, oh, don't put artists.
Put designer. Because you put artists, they'll think you're poor
and they're less likely to let you. Which I did.
I put designer. I mean it's not like I wasn't
designing stuff. But she's like, no, they're gonna think it.
Can't to carry yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And to be fair, it is a sexier termigration.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I should saying customers.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
It is a sexier term when you and and you
can and this is also to just like personal experience,
but when you tell people you know you're an artist,
they kind of like I feel like that it's kind
of like a running gag to be like, oh, are
you starving or you know, like yeah, it's like there's
definitely a lot of stigma attached to that, Whereas like
(16:15):
when I tell people that I'm a designer, people get
really excited by that.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But it's interesting, and you know, there's no way to
say this's without saying making it sound shady, and that's
not the intention. But it's just interesting that people have
that perception when you know, as artists, designer, will illustrated
or whatever you want to call either of us, we
(16:41):
control our destinies significantly. Like it's it's it's this thing
I always thought about after graduating, where it's like, you
know I can well, I shouldn't say after graduating a
little bit after graduating, when I kind of got my
feet squared away, like a few years later or whatnot,
Whereas like, well, it's interesting I can literally pick up
and just go somewhere and take these skills and these tools,
(17:02):
Like yes, somebody can mimic your style or whatnot, but
they don't have your style. If you're good enough at least,
if if you've if you've probably put enough I guess
of yourself into your work. Nobody can necessarily imitate that.
And if people hire you for your work, it's kind
of interesting the relationship you can build. And it's just
not the same as, like I said, not trying to
(17:25):
throw shade like a clocking in type of situation. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And I would also like argue that, like all of
it is so interdisciplinary and it overlaps so many ways,
and I think that, like, you know, it's like you
can be an artist who is a designer and like
and vice versa like, and there's so much overlap in that.
So I think, especially like with the visual arts. Yeah, yeah,
(17:55):
it's like, especially these days, in order to be truly successful,
you have to wear so many hats, so you have
to be capable of so many different skills or and just.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
A weird if you know, because one thing, you know,
I was an animation school and maybe that's a whole
conversation for another day. And you know, one of the
ends back then they would teach, they told you had
to learn specific skills, whether it's modeling or you know,
if you're in the two D program, you know you
have to you know, you're you're an animator. You wanted it.
(18:25):
You wanted to key frames, which is you know that's
a big job. You know, Hey, yeah, I control how
stuff moves. That's my character. Everybody wanted to be that,
but bost more likely you would be a tweener. I mean,
no offense, but you'd be doing tweens.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
It's just everybody can a key frame. If everybody's key framing,
then it's literally going to be stop motion.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And even then I feel like this is a whole
discussion because the average person probably doesn't know the difference
between what a key frame.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
So yeah, and I'll just and this is going to
be the show pretty much. I mean, going forward, it's
it's key frames. So animation, you know two D stuff,
and you know it's important for three D, but two
D stuff. Keyframe is the inciting action for a movement.
So if somebody is walking, the first step right is
(19:13):
going to be a key frame. And I'm good, I'm
doing I'm being very simple, So animators calm down. And
then the last step right is a key frame. Yes
they're a middle step, there's probably a middle but whatever,
everything in between is a tween. That's the that's the grunt. Work,
very important work, but that's what it is. And in
(19:34):
three D animation you kind of have a few you know,
you don't have to worry about that because you have
the program do the rest of it. But you do
have to set up the animation. You have to rig
the character all that stuff. But but anyway, going back
to the animation school thing, you they're toy, Oh, you're
gonna learn to either animate, You're gonna learn to model,
You're gonna learn to rig, You're gonna learn you know whatever. No,
you can't have to multi discipline y like you're saying
(19:57):
to really succeed. And if you really want to, if
you want to work for you self or whatever, depending
on what field you have to be, and you should
at least have an idea. You may not. You don't
have to. Yes, jack of all trades, I'm a master
of one though, is that fair enough? Like I'm a
jack of all trades and I'm a master of one,
so I at least know a little bit about various things.
(20:18):
But there's certain things you can't beat me in. That's
that's you know what I mean that that's just plain
and simple.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
That's the best.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, exactly, that's a great movie. I mean I liked it.
You probably wouldn't. It's a martial arts movie. Oh okay,
I'm sure those eighties babies out there like, yeah, man,
that's of the best. Yeah, best of the best. Uh so, yes,
So you're you're you're pretty multidisciplinary, you're pretty skilled with
a lot of times.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, that's that's another funny thing too. I mean I
almost feel like that would be another future topic. Is
it better to be a jack of all trades master
of none? Or is it better to be the master
of one trade and then not be That's where so
many other.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
The thing is, there's evidence of success in all that's
the fascinating part about that. And you know, one would say, well,
I guess your question is stupid and doesn't make any sense.
It's like, no, that's not true, because in exploring the
answers to those to those questions, you might find where
you lay you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, yeah, I would definitely say that. Like it's especially
like in our field, we've seen so many cases of
successful instances of both, really, and so I think a
lot of it depends on like the personal journey that
the person's.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Exactly like I was you know, I was good at
a lot of things, but there are there's certain things
I wasn't This is not me bragging, it's just, yes,
I was good at a lot of things, but there's
just certain things I didn't want to do even though
I was good at certain you know, there have been
certain jobs I've gotten like, oh my god, we'd love
to hire you for this, and I'm like, I'm not interested.
And you know, I didn't say that. I just you know,
(21:52):
I got busy all of a sudden. Yeah, because it's
that's not the direction I wanted to go. And I
could push that let's study, but that's not the point.
Like I didn't get into this to torture myself for
the rest of my life, you know what I mean.
You know, if I somehow develop a love for this,
this one activity, then yeah, let's let's go. But yeah,
(22:15):
that's just the complexes of art and being an artist
and uh, you know, maybe one day you'll hear about
my secret origin like you heard about Nicholes.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
You can find us at payper lab Studios on Instagram
or payperlab studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
And support us on Patreon at paper lab Studios. Thank
you for listening to
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Paper podcast a Mango Musica Turn that Music upst
Hi, I'm Nicky McCoy and I'm an illustrator, fashion designer
and traditional artist.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Mervin McCoy, illustrator, storyteller and digital artist.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
For more than a decade, we've traveled in the convention
scene from coast to coast.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We'd love to share what we've learned and are still
learning on our journey.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You're listening to paper podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
You hear that music? She stole it off the internet.
Just kidding. It's spicy beats b E E T s
and he hates beats. Let's check you out that sound thoud.
(00:45):
So we're both creators. I'm an illustrator and I you know,
I do do traditional art and I do digital art.
But I think my partner over here would probably argue that, no,
I'm a digital largest.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I think we can safely say that digital is your domain.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Okay, oh that was the name of a big effects
company back in the day. Do this sty like this
digital domain? I don't know. Everybody wanted to work there
when I was in art school. And you you you
are a what?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah? No, I'm an illustrator and I love doing fashion
design and design in general, and I would definitely say
that I'm more of a traditional artist. I love being
tactle with my work. That's something that's totally important to me.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And so we jumped right into the thick of it.
Didn't even say anything else, simply because that's kind of
what our lives are like. It's kind of like boom
boom boom, go go go, and we love it. Like
that's that's kind of why we're here. We want to
kind of share some of those adventures with you, share
what we've learned. You know, maybe some of the people
we've met might even show up once in a while.
(01:50):
I don't know, but it what's cool is, uh, this
is just a platform for us to kind of just
you know, chat, even though it's a one way monologuing. Well,
there's two of us. There's a dual log you sly dog.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
You caught me monologuing. What's that from The Incredible or
The Invincible? No, the Incredible Incredible?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, Incredible, The Invincibles that's the other.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's the other one.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was the one made by the Asylum.
You know, the Asylum they make all those like transmorphers
and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, the Invincibles. Yeah, so
we're just here, you know, chat with you guys. We
just want to touch base and just give you a
little insight into paper Lab and how we work. Though
(02:34):
I can tell you this is very inside baseball. The
name is not that common. But we got a message
they Olladay from someone and they thought we were a
different company, which has happened before. Yeah, which is, you know,
very interesting stuff, but you know, hey, it happens. So yeah,
we're we're here. We're talking about art. We're talking about
(02:58):
you know, what makes us tick, talking about you know,
why we do what we do, and you know, like
you said, I'm a digital artist. I can tell you
this much. Growing up, even though I started traditionally, I
so dreamt of being able to draw on the screen. Right,
It was such a dream like as a kid, Oh
my gosh, I was like, oh it was so cool
I could draw on the screen. And this is like
(03:19):
when mice just came into the vulgue.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
It's true. I think the amount of technological growth, like
the exponential amount of technological growth in like the past
couple of years has just been like a wild time
for artists.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah, and I would say, you know, and this is
not the topic of the show. And it probably will
be a future topic, but I do see a few
cons to that because you know, I do feel a
lot of our young artists specifically have kind of are
using it as a crutch. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, yeah, that that should definitely be a topic the
pros and cons of like traditional and digital art.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, and maybe we'll even just brainstorm some of our
brainstorm and share some of our already planned ideas for
the show going forward in terms of topics, because you know,
it's it's gonna be a format where we kind of
share some of our thoughts on the craft, you know,
what we what we like doing, or you know, things
we'd like to learn to do, or just struggles or
(04:25):
challenges and triumphs that we've achieved, you know, over the years, and.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Just using like personal anecdotes to kind of you know,
share these these amazing events and like people that we've
met with you guys.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, so you know, one of the things we're going
to talk about, it's like some of the challenges or
injuries or sacrifices we've you know, had in terms of art,
definitely whether they're physical. I mean, maybe we'll get into
some of the more esoteric and you know, psychological sacrifices
later on, but no, we're definitely going to talk about
(04:59):
like actual injuries. Might even have little debates you know,
going forth. You know, we we while we work well together,
we definitely don't like the same things nor agree on
things like genres and whatnot. Like you know, she's she's
read a ton of other books. I've read other books like,
(05:19):
for example, snow Crash. That's something that Yeah, I'm not
trying to throw you onto the book that ton of things.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It's totally fine.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah you don't like snow Crash or you didn't like
the first page so you didn't read it.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, I uh, yeah, I'm I'm definitely I feel like
within the first five minutes of trying something, I can
tell you whether or not I'm a fan.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And that's fine. Like she doesn't like it, So it's like,
you know, we can probably find debates bit you know,
coming out of that where it's not saying it would
they be exactly this, But you know you're a big
Lord of the Rings person. Yeah, I love Neil Stevenson,
So that's in and of it. So am I going
to say Neil Stevenson is best better than you know
(05:59):
the lay jr. Are No, I'm not gonna say that,
but maybe we'll just talk genres.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah. So having a little bit of like this or that,
a bit of tit for tat, well, I think create
like a healthy discourse and that. Yeah. I think people
will be interested to know our varying viewpoints on certain
topics and hopefully when something new along the way.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, that's that's that's always the whole. Personally, I can
say in some of our previous podcasts that we've dabbled in,
the idea was to stay in touch with people. You
know that. You know that one was in the pandemic
and we did exactly that this one. I think the
focus is this like personally, and you can chime in
(06:49):
and tell me your tick. I I you know, I
know people don't like the word education or in that way,
and even entertainment. It's kind of a grow to some people.
But I don't me personally, I don't see the point
of putting my time into anything if I can't get
something out of it in terms of like like enriching.
(07:11):
It doesn't have to you know, rock my socks off,
but I like to at least learn something, you know
what I mean? Yeah, whether it's something more about something
already no or something I don't know, or just learn
about someone so I and I feel there was value
for that in the other show, but this one's definitely gonna,
I think, is going to be a much tighter package.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, I think it'll be a little bit more focus based.
I think we're gonna kind of, you know, kind of
like lock in on what it is on, like on
very specific like subject matter as well. I definitely know
that there's still a room for meandering, as we do,
of course, but I think like just having a more
pointed focus. And I think also, I mean I'm on
(07:55):
the same page. I think learning something, whether it's just
it's a it's a factual thing in terms of something
that we didn't know about before, or even just somebody's
viewpoint on something, I think can also be like educational
or eye opening in that way.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And you know, yeah, we'll probably have like those you
know episodes where friends show up, I mean, who knows,
maybe one will come up soon, who knows, or even
doing another show on well this is my favorite. We
did a top ten Worst Anime World and we ended
(08:32):
up with a top three. That is how prepared and organized.
We are here at the paperlag yes exactly. But it
was fun. But that's just an example of Yes, things
like that can still happen. These shows won't be as
long form, but they might evolve into that. It depends
on you, the listener, what you want. We only have
(08:55):
so much time, but we will gladly devote the time
if that's where you're engaged, or that's what makes you
more interested, or you know, if you if you like
the show, then let us know and we will do
our best to give you more of it.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
But we're definitely opening feedback. I think we just wanted
to try a shorter format so that you know, you
could kind of like listen in, get your you know,
weekly catch up with us, yeah, whatever you need.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, and you know, you go about your business and well,
weekly might be tricky. I think this is monthly monthly Yeah,
you know hey, and like I said, this is a
brainstorming session that we're letting you in on right now.
So you know, it can come maybe it can become
weekly again if you know, leg said, if we know
there's the demand, and then we can put resources toward that.
(09:43):
Because this year is gonna be quite an adventure. We
have a show almost every month, and the ones that
we don't have shows in the months, which is like
one month that we don't have a show in there
are other months where it's tripled or up. So it
makes up for that stack this year. So it's like,
(10:04):
what eighteen or seventeen shows.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, it's definitely in the Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, that's more than a year's worth. That's more than
one a month, guys, So you know, we have to
kind of plan accordingly. It's kind of why we haven't
we haven't done a show in a.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
While, so it's been a hot minute, I take blae.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, well you know, but yeah, we're back in the
satell and we love doing this. We love chatting to
each other, We love chatting to you. We love talking
to our friends on the show. And that's probably one
of the best things about it, catching up, learning, being
together and you just pushing the medium forward because we're
(10:46):
you're like, you know, we're pushing.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
The medium, the artistic medium forward here at the paper Lab.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Exactly exactly at the paper Lab, we pushed the medium
forward day in, day out.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
That sounds like one of those futuristic right here at
the paper Love.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Oh, you mean like I'm in Cyberpunk. Yeah, okay, well
you know Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven underrated game now before, yes,
deserve the higher sure. So let me ask though, like
what are you looking forward to, Like, is there a
topic that you're looking forward to talking about on this show.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I can't really say I have any like specifics yet,
but definitely one of the things that I'm looking forward to,
I think is like having sort of that conversation about
like this or that, so just kind of like ticking
two like very different opposing topics. Like for example, like
I know, I think we had like mentioned well, I
mean here's an easy one traditional versus digital, Yeah, or
(11:47):
something like sci fi versus fantasy. I know, also came
up and and just kind of relating that back to
our own artistic process, so sort of uh, you know,
stating like our argument for or against and it's like
how maybe like that affected like our own personal practice.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
No, that's fair, that's that's a good one. And uh,
I mean, you know, a nice debate is healthy, you know,
reasonable and sensible debate is always good. No you uh yeah,
right know you But you know, before you know, we
kind of get to the endpoint, because we have a
you know, a little bit of time left. What like
(12:27):
what got you into the art field? Why you're an artist?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That is a that is a long history. I think
that the wildest thing, like well, especially like considering my age,
I could almost say that I have been involved in
the fine arts for like literally half of the time
that I've been alive, if that makes sense, because basically,
like my entire education, I was involved in the fine
arts in some way. So I had the opportunity, I guess,
(12:56):
as like a small child for my preschool teacher to
recognize that I had artistic abilities even as early as that,
and she recommended an art teacher in my elementary school
to get under like tutelage with and she had an
art club that was an after school program, uh basically,
(13:18):
and through that I started entering everything from like watercolor
competitions to just like local art competitions and and often
like I would win them or you know, have my
talents be recognized for them.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I think it's funny because I saw one of your
trophies out of day and I was like, oh, what's
this fort is Like, I don't know she has that
many trophies for things, whether it's costuming, which is that
will be a whole other topic in one of these episodes,
or art or whatever, and it's like, I don't know, man,
I's just one of them threw it in a jump pile.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
No, that's true. I have my my trophies probably displayed.
But yeah, I mean if I were just quickly summarized,
So it was it was our art club in elementary school,
and then I went on to a an art magnet
middle school, and from there I applied to an art
(14:12):
magnet high school and was accepted, and from then I
went to a fine arts college. So it's just something
that's kind of been with me my entire life. And
I'm really actually like appreciative for like having something like
that to kind of just like be there for me
like always.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's good support. I mean, talk
about knowing what you wanted to from an early age.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, No, definitely, And I think like I think that
like as an artist, the most interesting thing over that
course of time has just kind of been sort of
like what art I make, because I would say that
like definitely starting off with like watercolor paintings, yeah, and
then like eventually you like going into like costuming and
(15:02):
performing arts. It's it's been a really fascinating journey.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Can I tell you? It's funny. So I'm not trying
to step over your answer here, but you kept saying artists, artists, artists.
And I remember during my school days, so you know,
I'm traveling during break, I'm traveling back to Jamaica, you know,
visit a family or want not spend time, and so
you know, customs all that stuff you put what you
do for a lit or what you do or you know,
(15:28):
if you go into school and whatnot. Then when I
graduated and stuff, my sister would say, oh, don't put artists.
Put designer. Because you put artists, they'll think you're poor
and they're less likely to let you. Which I did.
I put designer. I mean it's not like I wasn't
designing stuff. But she's like, no, they're gonna think it.
Can't to carry yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And to be fair, it is a sexier termigration.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I should saying customers.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
It is a sexier term when you and and you
can and this is also to just like personal experience,
but when you tell people you know you're an artist,
they kind of like I feel like that it's kind
of like a running gag to be like, oh, are
you starving or you know, like yeah, it's like there's
definitely a lot of stigma attached to that, Whereas like
(16:15):
when I tell people that I'm a designer, people get
really excited by that.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But it's interesting, and you know, there's no way to
say this's without saying making it sound shady, and that's
not the intention. But it's just interesting that people have
that perception when you know, as artists, designer, will illustrated
or whatever you want to call either of us, we
(16:41):
control our destinies significantly. Like it's it's it's this thing
I always thought about after graduating, where it's like, you
know I can well, I shouldn't say after graduating a
little bit after graduating, when I kind of got my
feet squared away, like a few years later or whatnot,
Whereas like, well, it's interesting I can literally pick up
and just go somewhere and take these skills and these tools,
(17:02):
Like yes, somebody can mimic your style or whatnot, but
they don't have your style. If you're good enough at least,
if if you've if you've probably put enough I guess
of yourself into your work. Nobody can necessarily imitate that.
And if people hire you for your work, it's kind
of interesting the relationship you can build. And it's just
not the same as, like I said, not trying to
(17:25):
throw shade like a clocking in type of situation. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And I would also like argue that, like all of
it is so interdisciplinary and it overlaps so many ways,
and I think that, like, you know, it's like you
can be an artist who is a designer and like
and vice versa like, and there's so much overlap in that.
So I think, especially like with the visual arts. Yeah, yeah,
(17:55):
it's like, especially these days, in order to be truly successful,
you have to wear so many hats, so you have
to be capable of so many different skills or and just.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
A weird if you know, because one thing, you know,
I was an animation school and maybe that's a whole
conversation for another day. And you know, one of the
ends back then they would teach, they told you had
to learn specific skills, whether it's modeling or you know,
if you're in the two D program, you know you
have to you know, you're you're an animator. You wanted it.
(18:25):
You wanted to key frames, which is you know that's
a big job. You know, Hey, yeah, I control how
stuff moves. That's my character. Everybody wanted to be that,
but bost more likely you would be a tweener. I mean,
no offense, but you'd be doing tweens.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
It's just everybody can a key frame. If everybody's key framing,
then it's literally going to be stop motion.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And even then I feel like this is a whole
discussion because the average person probably doesn't know the difference
between what a key frame.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
So yeah, and I'll just and this is going to
be the show pretty much. I mean, going forward, it's
it's key frames. So animation, you know two D stuff,
and you know it's important for three D, but two
D stuff. Keyframe is the inciting action for a movement.
So if somebody is walking, the first step right is
(19:13):
going to be a key frame. And I'm good, I'm
doing I'm being very simple, So animators calm down. And
then the last step right is a key frame. Yes
they're a middle step, there's probably a middle but whatever,
everything in between is a tween. That's the that's the grunt. Work,
very important work, but that's what it is. And in
(19:34):
three D animation you kind of have a few you know,
you don't have to worry about that because you have
the program do the rest of it. But you do
have to set up the animation. You have to rig
the character all that stuff. But but anyway, going back
to the animation school thing, you they're toy, Oh, you're
gonna learn to either animate, You're gonna learn to model,
You're gonna learn to rig, You're gonna learn you know whatever. No,
you can't have to multi discipline y like you're saying
(19:57):
to really succeed. And if you really want to, if
you want to work for you self or whatever, depending
on what field you have to be, and you should
at least have an idea. You may not. You don't
have to. Yes, jack of all trades, I'm a master
of one though, is that fair enough? Like I'm a
jack of all trades and I'm a master of one,
so I at least know a little bit about various things.
(20:18):
But there's certain things you can't beat me in. That's
that's you know what I mean that that's just plain
and simple.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
That's the best.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, exactly, that's a great movie. I mean I liked it.
You probably wouldn't. It's a martial arts movie. Oh okay,
I'm sure those eighties babies out there like, yeah, man,
that's of the best. Yeah, best of the best. Uh so, yes,
So you're you're you're pretty multidisciplinary, you're pretty skilled with
a lot of times.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, that's that's another funny thing too. I mean I
almost feel like that would be another future topic. Is
it better to be a jack of all trades master
of none? Or is it better to be the master
of one trade and then not be That's where so
many other.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
The thing is, there's evidence of success in all that's
the fascinating part about that. And you know, one would say, well,
I guess your question is stupid and doesn't make any sense.
It's like, no, that's not true, because in exploring the
answers to those to those questions, you might find where
you lay you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, yeah, I would definitely say that. Like it's especially
like in our field, we've seen so many cases of
successful instances of both, really, and so I think a
lot of it depends on like the personal journey that
the person's.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Exactly like I was you know, I was good at
a lot of things, but there are there's certain things
I wasn't This is not me bragging, it's just, yes,
I was good at a lot of things, but there's
just certain things I didn't want to do even though
I was good at certain you know, there have been
certain jobs I've gotten like, oh my god, we'd love
to hire you for this, and I'm like, I'm not interested.
And you know, I didn't say that. I just you know,
(21:52):
I got busy all of a sudden. Yeah, because it's
that's not the direction I wanted to go. And I
could push that let's study, but that's not the point.
Like I didn't get into this to torture myself for
the rest of my life, you know what I mean.
You know, if I somehow develop a love for this,
this one activity, then yeah, let's let's go. But yeah,
(22:15):
that's just the complexes of art and being an artist
and uh, you know, maybe one day you'll hear about
my secret origin like you heard about Nicholes.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
You can listen to us on all podcast platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
You can find us at payper lab Studios on Instagram
or payperlab studios dot com, or just drop us a
line at design at paper lab studios dot com.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
And support us on Patreon at paper lab Studios. Thank
you for listening to
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Paper podcast a Mango Musica Turn that Music upst
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