October 20, 2025 • 54 mins
The Brooding Lake – A Gothic Gem Resurrected
In this episode of Paperback Warrior: Conversations, our host joins forces with Nick Anderson of YouTube’s Book Graveyard to unearth a haunting treasure from 1953 — The Brooding Lake by Dorothy Eden. Originally published twice by Dell, this classic gothic novel drips with atmosphere, mystery, and psychological tension. Together, they explore what makes The Brooding Lake a true gothic masterpiece — from its stormy setting to its shadowy secrets — and put it to the ultimate test: Does it pass The Guide to Gothics checklist? Along the way, they draw uncanny parallels between Eden’s mid-century suspense and David Lynch’s Twin Peaks, revealing how both works blur the line between beauty and menace. Tune in for literary analysis, dark nostalgia, and a touch of the uncanny — all in one brooding conversation.
You can also watch this as a video presentation HERE.
In this episode of Paperback Warrior: Conversations, our host joins forces with Nick Anderson of YouTube’s Book Graveyard to unearth a haunting treasure from 1953 — The Brooding Lake by Dorothy Eden. Originally published twice by Dell, this classic gothic novel drips with atmosphere, mystery, and psychological tension. Together, they explore what makes The Brooding Lake a true gothic masterpiece — from its stormy setting to its shadowy secrets — and put it to the ultimate test: Does it pass The Guide to Gothics checklist? Along the way, they draw uncanny parallels between Eden’s mid-century suspense and David Lynch’s Twin Peaks, revealing how both works blur the line between beauty and menace. Tune in for literary analysis, dark nostalgia, and a touch of the uncanny — all in one brooding conversation.
You can also watch this as a video presentation HERE.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, everyone, welcome back the Guide to Gothics. If you
are watching this at the moment, you're watching it on
YouTube on the Book Graveyard, and if you're listening to it,
you're listening to the podcast on the Paperback Warrior. I
am Nick from the Book Graveyard. With me is my
co host, the Handsome Stranger from the Paperback Warrior.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, Hello, Hello, thanks for having me again. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, thanks for having me because technically I'm on the
podcast too.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, that's true. Yeah, we're both giving each other a
little nod here. That's nice.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So today we're going to be talking about The Brooding
Lake by Dorothy Eden, a famous popular Gothic author of
the era. And when we say Gothic, we don't mean horror.
We're talking about Gothics, suspense, Gothic mystery, Gothic romance, if
you want. And that was popular for the what sixties
(01:07):
seventies era, would you say.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, sixties, seventies, eighties, and even creeped into the early nineties.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah. So in this series, we're reviewing books. We're trying
to figure out what it is that makes the gothic
suspense gothic, What makes it so appealing. We both enjoy
We both enjoy it for some reason.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, what are those women running from? That's the question
we keep asking.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, you know what's what's great about this and we'll
get to it, is it actually has a woman running
from a house in the story.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It does. Yeah, this is a it's the it's the
odd one. It really doesn't. It really is a case
where she is running from the one one light in
the mansion kind of thing. So it's kind of neat.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, this is this is a great This is a
great story, and I think it's kind of Twin Peaks ish,
maybe not the weird psychedelic aspects or out there philosophies.
But before we get to it, Eric, won't you tell
us a little bit about Dorothy Eden there.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, she's probably one of the more popular gothic romance
suspense writers from the library thing. Dorothy Eden was born
in Canterbury Plains, New Zealand on April third, nineteen twelve.
She worked as a legal secretary before moving to London
in nineteen fifty four to become a full time writer.
She's best known for her writings in the historical suspense
(02:40):
and gothic genres. Her first novel, The Singing Shadows, was
published in nineteen forty and during her lifetime she wrote
more than forty novels, including let Us Pray, p R
e Y, The Vines of Yaribee, Melbury Square, The Shadow Wife,
and Afternoon Walk, The Salamanca Drum, An Important Family and
(03:01):
She also contributed to several magazines, including Red Book Good Housekeeping.
She died of cancer on March fourth, nineteen eighty two,
at the age of sixty nine. This book they we're
talking about, from what I can tell, Nick, The Brooding
Lake was originally published in Europe as Lamb to the Slaughter.
(03:22):
This was in nineteen fifty three. I was published as
a hardcover through McDonald. It was also published under that
same title in nineteen seventy nine as a paperback through Coronet.
Oddly enough, and I guess we should. This is something
we kind of run into quite often. Actually, the cover
art on the Lamb to the Slaughter editions make no
(03:46):
mention of it being a Gothic. There's no Gothic artwork,
there's nothing indicating that it's a Gothic. It's just a
straight up thriller or kind of a noir piece. So
no mention of it being Gothic, but that same year
nineteen seventy nine Ace No, I should say, maybe I
(04:06):
got a notes wrong, but maybe nineteen fifty three, I think,
is when Ace published it as a Gothic paperback and
changed the title to Brooding Lake. And then they reprinted
it again in nineteen seventy seven as that same under
that same Brooding Lake title with different artwork. So twice
they hit it with Gothic art work in paperback through Ace,
(04:30):
and then twice under its original name of Lamba the
Slaughter with no Gothic paperback guard.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
And the original ones the first two were they were
in England. The ones that didn't did not say Gothic.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Right exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, I wonder if the the Gothic phenomenon is more
of a United States thing than an English thing.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Certainly could be with pocketbooks and Dell and Ace kind
of being the triad that's sort of delves really into
the gothic marketing. And I had I think I told
you when we first picked this book that I had
never read Dorothy Eden before, but I had forgotten. I
(05:10):
did read her book The Deadly Travelers last year. That
was an Ace paperback published in nineteen fifty six. That
one was marketed as a gothic paperback. But guess what.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
It was not?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
No, that was a That was an espionage novel about
some diamonds being smuggled on a train. Nothing remotely to
do with any kind of.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Gothic novel, not like cruise ship.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It wasn't nothing, nothing, just the train and Ace your liars.
Ace is a liar when it comes to this stuff.
They kind of make this stuff up.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But was it? Yeah, was it enjoyable?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
It was good? It was it was. It was a
bit convoluted, and I think Dorothy Eden is known for
having some convolution plots that involve a lot of characters,
so you really kind of have to have a notepad
handy just to write it all down. I read that
book with my wife, and she's better at that sort
of thing than me, so she was able to tell me,
you know, this person is related to this person, and
(06:16):
they're working for this part of the government, and it's
tough even we both got confused at times because there's
just so many, so many characters. But I don't.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Know, I appreciate the character lists on those classic mysteries
that they used to do. Yeah, I'm pro that I
wouldn't mind that in more books.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
How often do you find yourself making notes when you
read a book?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Always? But only because I do the channel.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
If you weren't doing the channel, would you never?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
You can never?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I just read. I just read a book and
I don't know what it was, but I kept the
note andy, just writing down all the characters. Oh, I
know what it was. It was the Lost Village. I
think I just mailed that to you, The Lost Village.
Oh yeah, yeah, if your wife reads that, she'll need
a notepad.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I've actually used books with where someone has written notes
of who the characters are, like a piece of paper
stuck in the room.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Well, with that one, the reason why you need to
notepad is because it's multiple timelines. So it'd be like
now then now, then the chapters fluctuate between time periods,
characters in two different settings that you have to keep
up with.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Wow, yeah, that makes you want to go read an
executioner book man. Yeah right, you don't have to write
anything down there, no.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, and the few characters that you do have to
write down max goan to kill them anyway.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. Yeah, so I was surprised to hear that Dorothy
Eden is from New Zealand because that's where this story
takes place. I was like, what an exciting, different, exotic
location to me, And turns out she's just from there.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah right, yeah, that's that's her neck of the woods.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So they say, yeah, that's cool, that's interesting. She is
a She's the name that you most often see in
the gothic the gothic shelf, I think, I think, anyway,
I don't know, who would you say is bigger than
Dorothy Eden.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Well, you see a lot of Dorothy Daniels, Virginia Kaufman,
Phyllis Whitney. Those are the main ones that I see
the most of. I think. I think, well, sometimes you'll
have mgnonn Eberhart, who's really just a mystery writer.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
They reintroduced her paperbacks as gothics. And what's the other
one I'm thinking of. That's the female mystery writer she
came out with the bat.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I can't think of her name now, Gary Roberts Reinhardt.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You got it. Yeah, all I see all of her
paperbacks in the gothic section. Yeah, but you know they
were written in the l like the nineteen twenties or thirties,
but they reintroduced them as paperback, got theic paperbacks.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I gotta say, the more I read the Gothics, they
are just kind of mysteries and just with a different atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I don't know, Yeah, the uh, they are mostly mysteries,
the ones that that tend to be I guess cloak
in a little bit of supernatural. Ara is is the
h William Ross books, not just the Dark Shadows books,
but a lot of his Gothics are they kind of
(09:33):
they introduced some kind of supernatural element, but at the
end of the book it's always you know, there's a
little bit of ambiguity there on whether it was really
there or not.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah. Yeah. We had a comment in the last video
that was like, you know, you could just look up
and see which Gothics are supernatural, And then in the
in the comment he admits he's like, but then it
ruins it, right right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I don't want to do that. I don't want to
do that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, it would ruin. It would ruin the supernatural aspect
if you knew it really was supernatural. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, And I'm really bad because I don't I don't
go and look at like the booklists that say, like,
if I'm trying to find like an author's book or something,
I don't go to the list and say, well, these
are the books that people say are the best. I
don't ever do that because I want to determine if
it's if it's the best or not. And I don't
want any kind of pretense before reading the book. But
suggests that everybody likes this book, I don't want to be.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah. I think when you build expectation too high in
your mind, it kind of raises the bar and makes
it less enjoyable.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Right, exactly, So I'd rather just go and not knowing anything.
That's why I have the paperback Hall of Shame, because
I'm just getting all these books. I'm like, oh, this
is really lousy. I wish I'd known ahead of time,
but that would that would kind of ruin the fun.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Of it, exactly. Yeah. All right, so let's let's review
this book here, Eric, let's get into it. This beautiful
cover I got here, that's great. I think this was
the last edition they did. Yeah, okay, so there was
another less gothic looking edition which I'll pop on the
(11:13):
screen there, and then I think this was the last one. Nice. Okay, yeah,
that's beautiful. That's classic, classic gothic cover.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, I love that all right.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So the story takes place in New Zealand, which you
know now I'm not surprised by it, but I was
at first. It stars Alice. Alice is arriving in New
Zealand to meet her friend Camella. Camilla has invited her
to come visit, to come stay in this country setting.
(11:50):
They're out in the rural area and when Alice arrives,
she goes to get on the bus and who's there
but her ex boyfriend Felix. Yes, surprise, surprise, And Felix
is someone that she was in love with who dumped her,
(12:12):
and so she's not too excited to see Felix right,
and he's taking her out to Camilla's house, which means
that he's probably there as and he has an interest
in Camilla. They all had known each other because they
were actors and they put on plays. Felix was the
(12:35):
producer director and Camilla and Alice were the actresses. Little
backstory there, a little backstory, and so Alice goes to
the cabin where Camilla is working as a teacher in
this small town and Camilla's not there. Felix leaves, he
(12:58):
goes back to the bus. She's there all by her.
She goes inside through the window through the open window,
breaks in and there's a hungry cat and then there
is a bird, one of those talking birds. Yeah, and
the bird is screeching, go away, ominous warning. Almost six
(13:20):
the bird with the ominous warning. Alice goes upstairs to
look around and she hears someone downstairs and at first
she thinks it's Camilla, but there's kind of a huge
ruckus and then she hears the person running out the door,
so she surprised someone. So she's scared. She's alone, alone
(13:44):
in this rural area, all by herself, in the shanty
cabin where the water leaks through the roof because it's raining.
There's hungry cats mewing and birds yelling go away. So
not a warm welcome for Alice. No, So Felix shows
back up. He is like, oh, Camilla was. She was
(14:06):
into the dudes. She had many, many interests, many male interests.
So she's probably just out with one of them. It's
not a big deal. And Als thinks this is strange,
it's not really your personality. She sees a note on
the calendar that says meeting with d. He's so impetuous.
(14:34):
So I think, right, there was the first thing, the
first hint of Twin Peaks that I saw, because like
in Twin Peaks, they have Laura's diary and she says
meeting with J at three or whatever, and they have
to figure out who this J is. And Laura also
dated a few guys at the same time, so we
(14:57):
have so we have Camilla, and I mean, we don't know.
Maybe she's dead, maybe she's alive. Who knows. Yeah, Rick,
let me let me ask you this. Yes, I wrote
you a letter. I said, Eric, come visit me my
house in Ohio, and you show up and and I'm
(15:19):
not here, even though I texted you I'll see you
at three, buddy, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, I would find it a bit odd. I would
definitely think there's something going on. This is not like
you to just not be here, right. And I've got
a couple of thoughts on this first chapter. I know
we're not completely done reviewing it, but I got a
couple of thoughts. First, I thought it was interesting that
the Gothic trope was used here, but you said a
(15:49):
little differently. If you'll recall Camilla, who's the side character.
She thought the protagonist. She's the one that accepts the
job to be the school teacher in the village. And
I think at the beginning it said that Camilla had
just moved there, maybe like a month or two ago,
maybe three months ago, So she was the one that
accepted the job. And that's normally what the protagonist gets
(16:10):
in the in the Gothics is except as we talked
about last week or the last episode, becoming a teacher,
becoming a you know, babysitter or some kind or nurse
or something like that. But Camilla is the one that
I ended up getting the job in town to be
the teacher. The other thing was kind of interesting was
(16:30):
when Alice was in the house. I thought it was
really spooky that there's nobody there, but then she also
hears footsteps as if someone just left the house and
it is leaving. So I was like, Okay, they've done
something to Camilla, and now they're trying to like hide
something in the house or or cover up something. And
then you mentioned to me earlier that Twin Peaks also
used a bird or something like some kind of ominous
(16:53):
warning from a bird or something.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yes, yes, there's when when Laura's getting killed in Twin Peaks,
there's there's a bird with a message.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Interesting. That kind of makes me wonder if David Lynch
read this book.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You know, and I know, And I don't want to
sell the Twin Peaks too hard because it's not it's
not as wacky. It's more just like the beginning of
Twin Peaks, when it's sort of just a regular mystery
before it gets into the Black Lodge and all that
got it.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Okay, carry on.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So while Felix is there, Dundas the neighbor shows up. Yeah,
he has the first initial of D. Here's our first D.
And later on in a little while, Alice also remembers
that Felix's last name is D and that Camilla used
to call him by that last name. Yeah, so Felix
is our He's our first D. Dune, this is our
(17:48):
second D. Dundas is really worried about Camilla, whereas Felix
is just like, eh, she's out out and about Dundas
is charming, and Alice is like, oh, who's this strange man.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
He's the tall, dark and mysterious he's is he tall?
I don't know if he is.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
When they describe him everything about him, I just imagine
a little squirrelly guy. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
The symbolism there. He's the tall, dark stranger that she
doesn't know. But yeah, he's he lives next door. And yeah,
like he said, he's possibly had a or prior relationship
or hook up with Camilla. For sure.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yes, yes, so they done. Both Felix and Dundas leave.
Alix looks around the house more. She finds a letter
that is supposedly written from Camilla that says that she
ran off to get married. Sorry I'm not here, I'm
off getting married. And Alice is like, oh, well that's
(18:57):
I mean, that's not even really her handwriting and not
her personality, so that's probably not true. So there's some
suspicious things going on here.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, most definitely. Yeah, I wasn't really sure the first chapter.
I was like, Okay, Camilla is probably dead and this
book is going to be an investigation into her whereabouts
what's happened to her. But then as we get further
into book, there's little hints here and there that Camilla
is alive and well and she's pirsally fine.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, yeah, she's fine. Don't worry about Eric. She's okay.
It's almost like how you said the trope of Camilla
goes there to get the job. It's almost like she
was the original Gothic that didn't turn out well.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's like this story could have actually been
about her. She was the original Gothic story here getting
the cleanup into Yeah, it's interesting. I never really thought
about it that way.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
You're right, Yeah, it's when Gothics go wrong, right, Yeah,
poor Camela. But she hey, maybe she's a live We
we just I wanted to let you all know we're
not there's We're not gonna spoil the end of this one.
We're not going all the way to the end. We're
gonna leave it open. Yes, this is pretty enjoyable little mystery.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah. I think people should read this and find out
the ending for themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
So the next morning, Dundas has invited her over. She
goes next door. I guess they live right next door,
and Dundas has a daughter name of Margaretta, who is shabby.
She dresses like a poor person, I don't know, like
(20:46):
a like an almost person. The way it's described is
so ridiculous. The really dials it in.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, she's dressed distastefully compared to like some of the.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Others, and she is not friendly. She's not friendly, and
she uh just seems to be almost the maid like
barely his daughter. Yeah, Alice is not. She notices it,
but she doesn't really care. She's kind of charmed by Dundas.
(21:16):
And they notice that he has a lot of little
figurines around. Yeah, he's a he's a collector of objects.
I guess.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, he's kind of like a bit of a hoarder.
He's got a lot of stuff at his house, which
we'll find out later he's got stuff at his house,
but yeah, he he either collects or he makes these
little figurines, little like little little figures, like little figures
that are creepy.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yes, And the daughter is not into it, she's not
she's not into that stuff. At the breakfast, Dundas is
asking lots of questions about Camilla, about what Alice has
found out, I guess about about her disappearance, and Alice
(22:07):
mentions that she found a diary. He wants to know
what's in the diary, and then he just is like, oh,
we should just burn it, which is insane. It's just
an insane thing to say, oh, you found a diary,
we should probably burn that thing.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah right, it was where that he jumped to that
so fast.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, he's like, is my name in there? Go ahead
and burn it. Yeah, so there you go. You got
the diary. So there is another connection there to Twin Peaks.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And then and then Margaretta says something very strange.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Oh yeah, that's right. He's like, he's like, oh, I'll
so so you can move in, so there's room for you.
I'll you're going to live there. I don't know. We'll help.
I'll help move Camilla's things out. And then the daughter
finally pipes up and says, you should. You should let
him help. He loves women's clothes. Yeah, which I believe that.
(23:05):
Got a text message too, like, whoa, what is up
with that?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah? I think I texted your you texted me? He goes, okay,
this is crazy. Yeah, what is going on? So Margaretta
is really weird?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah? So not only is is Margaretta weird, but now
we have this dundas who's yes, he's charming, but he
also he's a hoarder. He has these little dolls that
he's kind of obsessed with, and supposedly he is really
into women's clothes. Yeah, OK, so I don't know. Things
(23:39):
are mysterious. They're mysterious around here.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
So the next day she finishes up everything with them,
so that she goes the next day and she meets
up with the rich and reclusive other d Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So at the end, the one and only in in town. Yeah,
everyone's there. Everyone's there at the end for dinner, and yes,
we meet the other d which is Dalton, who has
a sister, Catherine. Yep, do you want to describe Katherine.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So she is very, very weird, she's nuts, and apparently
she just never leaves her house like she's she lives
with Dalton, she never leaves. Camilla was apparently the only
person that really kind of had like almost almost like
a sympathetic nature to Catherine, so she would always go
over and visit Catherine. So they had quite a little bond.
(24:37):
But yeah, Catherine's weird.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yes, And I think that this also reminded me of
Twin Peaks and the relation to how Laura did the
meals on wheels and she went and like gave food
to the guy who would never leave.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
His house there you go, Okay, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Catherine is like an a adult child. When she's upset,
she's very upset. And when she's happy, she's crazily happy.
They Alice and Catherine and Margaretta are having a conversation
and where they decide where they discover that Margaretta is
(25:18):
has a dance coming up or she got invited to
a dance, yeah, and Catherine is very beautiful, She is
very elegant. And Catherine's like, well, we got to get you,
We got to get you some clothes, girl, you can't
be wearing potato sacked to the dance. And they they're like, oh,
(25:42):
there's a bunch of clothes back at back at Dundas's house,
back at my house in the attic. So the three
ladies go back to the house and dress up Margaretta
and they're kind of like wondering, why why are there
all these women's clothes here? Yeah, to which I don't
(26:07):
think Margaretta really answers them. I think she's like, oh,
there was like my mom or maybe does she even saying.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
That, Yeah, she says they were my mom's clothes, yeah,
or also that they were the previous girlfriend after the
mom died, there was a girlfriend and her clothes were there,
including I think that girlfriend's wedding dress because she was
going to get married. But yeah, she just disappeared. She's
just gone one day. Interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, so yeah, I know, Dune, This to me is
just like serial killer stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah. Everything here is suggesting that he's a psychopath.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, I mean I got it. Eric got it. Alice
she didn't get it. She's not feeling it. She still
thinks that he's good looking. And then back to Dalton.
He's also a good looking fella, but he's not as friendly.
He's not as friendly to Alice. He's he doesn't really,
(27:08):
he's really just all he cares about is Kamilla. Where's Kamilla? Yeah,
so we don't know. Camilla is still missing. Felix is like, ay,
she'll show up. Done. This is really obsessed with it, like,
oh my god, where is she? And then Dalton is
(27:28):
also stoically upset. Catherine is kind of upset, but she's
also excited that Alice is there. She's like, oh, well,
I got this new friend.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
She invites her new friend over for dinner lunch the
next day the Dalton mansion because they're very rich. Yes,
they're very very wealthy.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Alice is like the new pet thing. Yeah, my new
pretty come over.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So in preparation, in preparation for this, Alice decides that
she's going to think like Camilla. In order to understand
what happened to Camilla, she must become Camilla. She must
kind of date these guys.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
At that she was, she was dating, and I was like, Okay,
now now this is getting crazy because this is Twin Peaks,
this is Donna. This is exactly what Donna does in
Twin Peaks, where she's like she starts to act like Laura,
she starts to date James. Yeah, I was, yeah, that's
(28:34):
what I was like. Man, did he read this? Did
David let you read this? Did you look it up?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
The Twin Peaks hits just keep coming, right.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I know. So up at their up at the mansion,
there is the uh Dalton, who's not happy to see Alice.
He doesn't want her there. He's not friendly. He's polite,
but not friendly. And then there's Catherine, who is very excited,
very excited that Alice is there.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
She's giddy, she is.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
She's very giddy. And but we also have they have
a I guess a maid of the house. Yes, and
she's kind of like the most normal person in town.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah. Her name is Totty Totty Totty.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, and so they have they have dinner. The the
cook is really weird and mean, she's mean to Alice.
Dalton doesn't want to be there, but Catherine's very excited
and she's trying to get information about Camilla. But Catherine
(29:50):
doesn't really care about Camilla anymore. She's replaced her with Alice.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, it's almost like, well, Alice is trying to get
information from Dalton about Camilla and the relationship. It's almost
like Catherine's playing interference, like she's constantly just in the
way mm hm. And just like you said, I don't know,
she's just she's just so fascinated with Alice being there
and her new pet thing, Alice that she's kind of
(30:17):
like interfering with Alice's investigation.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
And so Alice is getting bad vibes and she's like,
you know what, I'm out of here. This this sucks.
It's raining. It's been raining like the whole book. The
whole book is just pouring down rain. Yeah, it's actually
kind of awesome. It kind of really it sets the mood.
So Alice like, I want to go home, and Dalton's like, yeah,
let's go, I'll take you home right now. And Catherine's like,
(30:43):
hold on a second, I have to go grab something,
don't don't leave yet.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And while Alice Dalton are talking, Catherine comes in from
outside soaking wet with I just imagine like the most
insane smile on her face. Yeah, and she's like, okay, Alice,
thanks for coming over, right, And Dalton and Alice go
to leave, and there is flat tires, all all flat
(31:13):
tires on the rolls Royce. Yeah, I mean it's pretty obvious.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, Catherine slashed the tires to keep
Alice her new pretty thing there.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah yeah. And Dalton is just kind of like just
like resigned, like here, I guess you're staying the night.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So Catherine gets her way and and Alice is staying
the night and they show her to the to her room,
which is just like the worst I would I wouldn't
care that it was raining I had come out of here.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, I mean you got to think about it. Camilla
is missing, She's in the strange Alice's in this strange
village with strange people that she doesn't know. She's just
had her tires slashed, and she probably knows that Catherine
did it. And now she's being ushered over to a
bedroom where she's gonna have to spend the night with
these crazies. Oh man, in this rainstorm. Yeah right, I
(32:09):
mean it's from a literary standpoint, I mean it's it's
it's great.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
It is this. Yeah, this was my favorite part of
the book. I was so all in at this point.
I was like, oh man, what's going to happen. What's
going to happen poor Alice? Yeah, and it is and
it it delivers. So she's getting she's up in the
room and what did you say? Her name was Toddy?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
The Toddy is there and she's the maid, and she's
getting everything prepared for the bed.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
And Toddy gives her She says normal things first, and
then on the way out, she's like, you better lock
the door at night, and then just scurris on down
the hallway.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, if it were me, I would lock this door.
And I was and I was like, this is crazy,
Like this is.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Bad, oh man, so good. So Alice tries to chase
her down and she's gone, and she's like, Okay, well
I guess I'll go to bed. Yeah, and in the
in the middle of it. So, so she's sleeping and
she has this dream with with Camilla in it and
she's like you help me or and Camilla is like,
(33:20):
you got to get out of this house. You got
to get out of this house. And Alice wakes up.
First off, she didn't lock her door because she thought
it would be rude, which, yeah, right, who cares at
that point? Yeah, So she wakes up in the middle
of the night and there's really a voice in the
darkness in her room and it's laughing, m h, I'm
(33:44):
assuming some kind of evil way. And then it said
the boy says Camilla is here. Isn't that a joke?
And Alice is like, who, who are you? Like, she's
freaking out, and she goes to get up and she
can't get up. Something's holding her back. So someone is
holding her down on the bed. Yes, pure panic this
(34:09):
pure panic mode.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
She eventually can reach over and turn on the light.
No one's in the room anymore, and she realizes that
no one's holding her down. Someone had just tied her headband,
her hair to the bedstand.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
I was. Yeah, I read this thing at night and
I was like, this is amazing. This is so creepy.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah. At first I thought she was being held down
and they were They were like some kind of sacrifice.
I was like, this is some kind of sacrifice. They're
holding her down, They're going to plunge a knife in
her heart or something. But then it was almost like
even more terrifying you realize that somebody tied her up
and left. I know that was weird.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Just someone standing in your room and in the middle
of the night, some stranger is creepy enough, but didn't
They're just like laughing and then they're like, oh, your
friend is here. What does that mean? Is Camilla in
the house? Is it Camilla? As she lost her mind?
And she's like in this house? What have they done
to her? Yeah, this just opened the door to so
(35:15):
many questions.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Well, Alice does what I would do. She just gets
up and leaves.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yes she does.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Mila Knight, it's raining out of Cara, out of her.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, she does. And there and there we have it.
We actually have a woman running from a house in
the middle of the night. That's one the one light
on that was her room. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, that's gonna
get high points on the litmus tests.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, which we're gonna do. She's leaving, she's walking back
to her house and it's thundering, storming, lightning, And as
she's walking back, she gets to the yard of the
uh of Camilla's cabin and what does she fought?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Of Camille's cabin? She finds this is sad. This is sad.
The bird is dead.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, someone has twisted the bird's neck apparently for top.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, the bird had a message and then shut it up.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
And then I think the front cover of your paperback
is really the scene that happens here, because a tree
falls and you can see that tree in the background.
It falls and knocks Alice on the head, knocks her out,
and then she wakes up and she's at dundas His
(36:43):
house and uh, She's like, how did I get here?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
So yeah, so the doctor comes and he says that
she has to stay in bed or whatever. Days go by.
Daughter's rude and Dundas asks asked Alice to marry him.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, I mean why not.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
They've known each other for forty eight hours.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Yeah, that's the way these books go. In the love
of my life. I've wanted you my entire life. I've
known you for twenty four hours.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And what's your answer, Eric, What do you say to Dundas?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Alice says yes, what do you say? I would say no, Yeah,
maybe this guy's playing with little figurines his his his
house is wacky potatoes daughter, you know, I don't know.
I would say no.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, wife's ex wife, Dad. You know how she died?
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, his ex wife fell on top of the glacier.
So I don't know if we said it, but Dundas
as a photographer. Mm hmm, and uh so one of
his favorite places to shoot is on top of this glacier.
So she she was up there in apparently slipped and
fell off the glacier and died.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Slipped through a cravasse, basically buried alive. Yeah, oh what
a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, so yeah, I would say no, But Alice says yes, yes.
And then and we can't tell you the rest of
the book because we would ruin it for you.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, so we're gonna leave it open there. So you
have your suspects. They're all shady, they're all crazy. Yeah, all, I.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Don't know what were your you know, what were your
thoughts on the book after reading it? What do you think?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I was so into this. I devoured it. I thought
it had just wonderful atmosphere and it was very it
was very creepy. Yeah, I mean the I don't know
if the correlation that I made to Twin Peaks in
my head made me enjoy it more where I felt
like I was reading a novel is of Twin Peaks,
(39:02):
which could could be possible. Yeah, I think towards the end,
I was like, it was definitely I enjoyed the beginning
more than more than the end.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, okay, I enjoyed the first half of the book
a lot. I was really interested. I was invested. I
needed to know what happened to Camilla. That part was
a really central to the story. It's the whole point
of the book. It's the mystery. I wanted to know
what happened to her. Dalton and done Us were we're
(39:41):
interesting characters to me. I still had a little bit
of trouble understanding Dalton and the girl and then done
Us to the girl because they were kind of running together.
For me, like there wasn't there wasn't enough contrast there
to keep them separate from me, so I kind of
had to in my mind. I kept one back and
forth like wait a minute, who's with who again? And
(40:04):
but once I got that under wraps, you know, I
was able to figure you know, kind of figure it out.
But the second half of the book, like you, it
was kind of let down a little bit. The end,
there are I think mannequins are really creepy. Yeah, there
are mannequins at the end that serve in the finale.
But I was a little bit let down at the
(40:25):
at the end. But it was a lot of fun
getting there, and I definitely recommend the book, no doubt,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, I think that the only the place that was
a misstep was the getting married, And I understand why
she did it, but it just everything up until that
point made sense. And then you were like, like, she
wouldn't Why would she just say yes to this do
after forty eight hours? Who's creepy and weird anyway, even
though she has attracted to them, it's just just now
(40:56):
she would have done. And then not only that, but
almost immediately she regrets it. She's like, I want to
get out of this.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, I thought the author, uh took some liberties with
the story and I kind of, I don't know, she
kind of let the I don't know, she kind of
let the air out of the balloon with the character
with Alice. It was like she just kind of deflated Alice.
Like Alice is smart, she's intelligent, she's brave. You know,
(41:23):
she's staying in this house where her friend basically disappeared.
She's spending the night there. She's fine with that. She
was okay spending the night with you know, with crazy Catherine. Yeah.
So its like but then it was kind of underwhelming
when she said yes to the marriage thing. It was like,
it doesn't really serve a purpose. But but overall it's
(41:44):
a good book. I recommend it. I think people should
read it. I liked your comparisons to the Twin Peaks.
I thought that was cool. That's by against my second
Dorothy Eden novel. This was better than the one that
I read before it, and I think i'd probably read
another door the book.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, no, that was great. It
was it was very it was very Gothic. We'll put
it to the test, all right, So here we go.
The Gothic Lutmus Test trademark, Nick and Eric don't be
stealing it. Other gothic podcasts, all those other gothic podcasts.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Out there, thousands of imitators.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
All right, so let's start with the cover art. I
guess there's so many different ones. How do we do this?
Do we just do?
Speaker 2 (42:39):
So? The the Ace version, which is the Brooding Lake,
That's what it was published under. I would say, is
gothic artwork for sure?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah? Yeah, definitely. I mean it's it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
So yes, does the cover art have a woman running
from a house? Would you say? I guess I don't
need to put it up, so I'll put it up
on screen.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, because mine, my version, she's running from the house.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, yeah, two two for two. Do we have a
light on? Do we have one light on in that artwork?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I think? So let's see, Uh yeah, there's one light on?
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, you got it. Mine only has a moon. It
doesn't have a light. She's not running from a.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
House's got the light right there?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
You know what we're going to count it. I'm feeling
I'm feeling giving today. All right. Then we move on
to the themes. We got a stranger in a strange Land. Yeah, absolutely,
most definitely. Yeah, she's I believe she was from from
England before she went to Yeah, yeah, I have the
(43:49):
next one as gas lighting. Is anyone making her feel
like what she's saying isn't true? M m.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
No, I don't think it has any of that.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, I don't. I think the only one who could
maybe be closed is Felix. But he's more just like,
don't worry, like.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
It's yeah, I think to be reassuring.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Okay, so no gas lighting, no gas lighting. Is there
a handsome man with questionable motives? Oh yeah, yes, there
is a bunch of them.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Is there romance yeah sort of yeah, yeah, because she
said yes to the marriage things. So yeah, it's definitely.
It's definitely not romantic in any any sense of the word.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
No, but it does have romance.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
But it does have romance references. Yeah, mystery absolutely.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah, the whole the.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Whole basis is there hints of the superna natural.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
No no, no, none.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah, there's there's no no ghostly stuff here. And then
we have the nurse type job the yeah Camilla, Yeah,
but that's Kamila though I would say.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
It doesn't affect the protagonist though, she doesn't have a
job of a new job.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Right, so that's a Now we got isolated setting, most definitely,
most definitely. And then the one thing that we didn't
cover in Decoyan Diamonds was the atmosphere. The atmosphere which
(45:41):
is just like you know, the rain, the moon. Does
it feel gothic to you?
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah? Yeah, Eden Dorothy Eaton's always describing the rain outside
the rain of thunder, lightning wind. Yeah, you definitely got that.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I think in the finale, you've got a dark house
if you recall, it's a dark house with the mannequins.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. This whole thing is is dripping
with gothic atmosphere. Yeah, so what do you got? What's
your square here? We got six seven, nine, a nine
out out of eleven. Is that what we have?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Probably we do refine our test, but yeah, majority rules there.
So yeah, it's definitely gothic.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
It definitely is. And I mean, ultimately, even if it
scored kind of lower, we actually have a woman running
from a house in the middle of the night in
the story. You see you can't boom, you cannot Yeah,
you can't. You can't beat that, all right, So that
was a lot of fun. Yeah, I wanted to show
(46:58):
you a book here, Eric. It's called Gothic Novels of
the Twentieth Century and Anne's Feated Bibliography by Elsa J. Radcliffe.
Have you ever heard of this book?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
I have, because the person who gifted that to us
sent me a message as well.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yes, this was gifted to us for the show by
Alan from the Book Suppository. He has his own YouTube channel,
the Book Suppository people. Do you know a movie that's
from Eric.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
The Book Suppository JFK.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
No, that's close though. Yeah, Full Metal Jacket, Private Snowball. Okay,
he says it, he says the Book Suppository building.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
So this book is basically just lists like every gothic book,
she's aware of author, and if she's read it, she
gives little snarky reviews. It's a little like snarky three
sentence reviews.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
That's fascinating it is.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah, it's not gothic horror. It's the gothic that we're
talking about, the gothic mystery.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Does does she have this book in?
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Wow? That's something I should have looked up. You know
what's funny is I just flipped to a page and
it's dark Cypress, which is what we were supposed to read.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I can ask you a question,
Nick about your shirt. Yeah, why is Cincinnati spelled with
an A at the end? What am I missing here?
Is this? Like?
Speaker 1 (48:43):
I made it?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Oh? You made it?
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, it's it's kind of a it's a tribute to
my grandma. My grandma loves the Cincinnati Reads and for
some reason, she would pronounce it the Cincinnata Reads. And
it was always like a family joke that that's how
you say Cincinnata Cincinnati, Okay, And I thought it was
(49:05):
so I made these shirts for Christmas last year for
all my family members on that side of the family.
Is a tribute to her. And I was watching I
watched all the baseball games on YouTube, and it was
it was some game, some World Series or something from
the the sixties or the fifties, and the Baltimore coach
(49:27):
was on. They were talking to him and he called
them the Cincinnata Reds. Really yeah, I was like, maybe
that's just the way people used to say it. Yeah,
I don't see brooding Lake. What was the other title
for it, Lamb to the Slaughter, Lamb to the Slaughter. Well,
(49:50):
neither of them are in here. That's so weird.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Sinn Allen's book back to him, Alan, you are dead
to us.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Dead, thanks a lot, Alan looks a pository.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
No, that really does seem like a really cool book, though.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Very wait there it is there. I'm sorry. I take
it all back, Al, and I take it all back
a lot. There's no review though, it's just okay.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Let's just it's got to mention that that's cool. We're sorry, Alan,
please send us more books.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Right, sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Last thing before we go, Right before we came on today,
I was on X and somebody had posted a photo
of a comic book and I can't remember who it was.
It may have been Captain October, but I can't remember.
But anyway, Nick, there is a four issue comic book
series from DC that came out in nineteen seventy one,
(50:52):
and it's called The Dark Mansion of Forbidden Love. There's
the first issue, and it's a gothic it's basically these
four the first four issues of this comic book series
is a standalone story of this of this gothic romance,
(51:12):
basically a graphic novel but broken up into four issues.
And here, yeah, there's the second issue, Dark Mansion, Forbidden Love,
issue number two, How You Interfere? And then there's the
third one and you can see there's one light in
the background, woman running from the house, and then there
(51:35):
you go. And then it goes from that. They rechange,
they retitle it to well, that's the first page of
the first issue, Mystery of the Missing Bride who killed Bettina?
Very gothic. But then I apparently it didn't sell well,
so then they changed it to Forbidden Tales of Dark Mansion.
And these are basically like an anthology, just a standalone
(51:57):
stories and all the other issues. But I felt like
we should probably at some point tackle these first four
issues which make up us. I guess a novel. I
should read it.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
I'm so down this is These are amazing looking.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, it was pretty cool. And apparently there is other
gothic suspense Gothic romance comics like Haunted Love from DC.
I think one was a spin off of like a
Secret of Sinister House. Maybe, but I'll dig into it.
I'll let you know.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
But it's called Haunted Love.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, Haunted Love.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Isn't that what Justin calls his gothic segment in the
paperback fanatic.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah, I think so busted.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
You're busted justice, there you go.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
So, but yeah, we'll have to h we'll have to
pick up another book and review it for another another
Guide to Gothics episode. I don't know what we're gonna
read next though.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yeah, we got to figure it out. This one was
kind of it fell apart. It was supposed to be
the Edwina Noon Cypress. I almost said Cypress.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
Hill, Dark Cypress by it, Yeah, not Cypress Hill. The
book also known as Michael Evaloni.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, Michael Avloni Dark Cypress. It was supposed to be that,
but I thought I had it and I can't find it,
and it's like twenty dollars.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Yeah, it's expensive. Yeah, nobody has scanned it yet unfortunately,
so I don't have the heart to rip up my
book and scan it, so.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yes, please, yeah, I don't do that. So, yeah, I
don't know. We'll surprise you. We'll surprise you with what's
coming next and when it's coming next.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Yeah, exactly cool, Well right, welsome.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Yeah, that's it for today. Thanks everyone for watching, and
we'll see you next time later. Peace out. Stop
Hello, everyone, welcome back the Guide to Gothics. If you
are watching this at the moment, you're watching it on
YouTube on the Book Graveyard, and if you're listening to it,
you're listening to the podcast on the Paperback Warrior. I
am Nick from the Book Graveyard. With me is my
co host, the Handsome Stranger from the Paperback Warrior.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, Hello, Hello, thanks for having me again. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, thanks for having me because technically I'm on the
podcast too.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, that's true. Yeah, we're both giving each other a
little nod here. That's nice.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So today we're going to be talking about The Brooding
Lake by Dorothy Eden, a famous popular Gothic author of
the era. And when we say Gothic, we don't mean horror.
We're talking about Gothics, suspense, Gothic mystery, Gothic romance, if
you want. And that was popular for the what sixties
(01:07):
seventies era, would you say.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, sixties, seventies, eighties, and even creeped into the early nineties.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah. So in this series, we're reviewing books. We're trying
to figure out what it is that makes the gothic
suspense gothic, What makes it so appealing. We both enjoy
We both enjoy it for some reason.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, what are those women running from? That's the question
we keep asking.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, you know what's what's great about this and we'll
get to it, is it actually has a woman running
from a house in the story.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It does. Yeah, this is a it's the it's the
odd one. It really doesn't. It really is a case
where she is running from the one one light in
the mansion kind of thing. So it's kind of neat.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, this is this is a great This is a
great story, and I think it's kind of Twin Peaks ish,
maybe not the weird psychedelic aspects or out there philosophies.
But before we get to it, Eric, won't you tell
us a little bit about Dorothy Eden there.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, she's probably one of the more popular gothic romance
suspense writers from the library thing. Dorothy Eden was born
in Canterbury Plains, New Zealand on April third, nineteen twelve.
She worked as a legal secretary before moving to London
in nineteen fifty four to become a full time writer.
She's best known for her writings in the historical suspense
(02:40):
and gothic genres. Her first novel, The Singing Shadows, was
published in nineteen forty and during her lifetime she wrote
more than forty novels, including let Us Pray, p R
e Y, The Vines of Yaribee, Melbury Square, The Shadow Wife,
and Afternoon Walk, The Salamanca Drum, An Important Family and
(03:01):
She also contributed to several magazines, including Red Book Good Housekeeping.
She died of cancer on March fourth, nineteen eighty two,
at the age of sixty nine. This book they we're
talking about, from what I can tell, Nick, The Brooding
Lake was originally published in Europe as Lamb to the Slaughter.
(03:22):
This was in nineteen fifty three. I was published as
a hardcover through McDonald. It was also published under that
same title in nineteen seventy nine as a paperback through Coronet.
Oddly enough, and I guess we should. This is something
we kind of run into quite often. Actually, the cover
art on the Lamb to the Slaughter editions make no
(03:46):
mention of it being a Gothic. There's no Gothic artwork,
there's nothing indicating that it's a Gothic. It's just a
straight up thriller or kind of a noir piece. So
no mention of it being Gothic, but that same year
nineteen seventy nine Ace No, I should say, maybe I
(04:06):
got a notes wrong, but maybe nineteen fifty three, I think,
is when Ace published it as a Gothic paperback and
changed the title to Brooding Lake. And then they reprinted
it again in nineteen seventy seven as that same under
that same Brooding Lake title with different artwork. So twice
they hit it with Gothic art work in paperback through Ace,
(04:30):
and then twice under its original name of Lamba the
Slaughter with no Gothic paperback guard.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
And the original ones the first two were they were
in England. The ones that didn't did not say Gothic.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Right exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, I wonder if the the Gothic phenomenon is more
of a United States thing than an English thing.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Certainly could be with pocketbooks and Dell and Ace kind
of being the triad that's sort of delves really into
the gothic marketing. And I had I think I told
you when we first picked this book that I had
never read Dorothy Eden before, but I had forgotten. I
(05:10):
did read her book The Deadly Travelers last year. That
was an Ace paperback published in nineteen fifty six. That
one was marketed as a gothic paperback. But guess what.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
It was not?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
No, that was a That was an espionage novel about
some diamonds being smuggled on a train. Nothing remotely to
do with any kind of.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Gothic novel, not like cruise ship.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It wasn't nothing, nothing, just the train and Ace your liars.
Ace is a liar when it comes to this stuff.
They kind of make this stuff up.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But was it? Yeah, was it enjoyable?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
It was good? It was it was. It was a
bit convoluted, and I think Dorothy Eden is known for
having some convolution plots that involve a lot of characters,
so you really kind of have to have a notepad
handy just to write it all down. I read that
book with my wife, and she's better at that sort
of thing than me, so she was able to tell me,
you know, this person is related to this person, and
(06:16):
they're working for this part of the government, and it's
tough even we both got confused at times because there's
just so many, so many characters. But I don't.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Know, I appreciate the character lists on those classic mysteries
that they used to do. Yeah, I'm pro that I
wouldn't mind that in more books.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
How often do you find yourself making notes when you
read a book?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Always? But only because I do the channel.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
If you weren't doing the channel, would you never?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
You can never?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I just read. I just read a book and
I don't know what it was, but I kept the
note andy, just writing down all the characters. Oh, I
know what it was. It was the Lost Village. I
think I just mailed that to you, The Lost Village.
Oh yeah, yeah, if your wife reads that, she'll need
a notepad.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I've actually used books with where someone has written notes
of who the characters are, like a piece of paper
stuck in the room.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Well, with that one, the reason why you need to
notepad is because it's multiple timelines. So it'd be like
now then now, then the chapters fluctuate between time periods,
characters in two different settings that you have to keep
up with.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Wow, yeah, that makes you want to go read an
executioner book man. Yeah right, you don't have to write
anything down there, no.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, and the few characters that you do have to
write down max goan to kill them anyway.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. Yeah, so I was surprised to hear that Dorothy
Eden is from New Zealand because that's where this story
takes place. I was like, what an exciting, different, exotic
location to me, And turns out she's just from there.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah right, yeah, that's that's her neck of the woods.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
So they say, yeah, that's cool, that's interesting. She is
a She's the name that you most often see in
the gothic the gothic shelf, I think, I think, anyway,
I don't know, who would you say is bigger than
Dorothy Eden.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Well, you see a lot of Dorothy Daniels, Virginia Kaufman,
Phyllis Whitney. Those are the main ones that I see
the most of. I think. I think, well, sometimes you'll
have mgnonn Eberhart, who's really just a mystery writer.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
They reintroduced her paperbacks as gothics. And what's the other
one I'm thinking of. That's the female mystery writer she
came out with the bat.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I can't think of her name now, Gary Roberts Reinhardt.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You got it. Yeah, all I see all of her
paperbacks in the gothic section. Yeah, but you know they
were written in the l like the nineteen twenties or thirties,
but they reintroduced them as paperback, got theic paperbacks.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
I gotta say, the more I read the Gothics, they
are just kind of mysteries and just with a different atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I don't know, Yeah, the uh, they are mostly mysteries,
the ones that that tend to be I guess cloak
in a little bit of supernatural. Ara is is the
h William Ross books, not just the Dark Shadows books,
but a lot of his Gothics are they kind of
(09:33):
they introduced some kind of supernatural element, but at the
end of the book it's always you know, there's a
little bit of ambiguity there on whether it was really
there or not.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah. Yeah. We had a comment in the last video
that was like, you know, you could just look up
and see which Gothics are supernatural, And then in the
in the comment he admits he's like, but then it
ruins it, right right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I don't want to do that. I don't want to
do that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, it would ruin. It would ruin the supernatural aspect
if you knew it really was supernatural. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, And I'm really bad because I don't I don't
go and look at like the booklists that say, like,
if I'm trying to find like an author's book or something,
I don't go to the list and say, well, these
are the books that people say are the best. I
don't ever do that because I want to determine if
it's if it's the best or not. And I don't
want any kind of pretense before reading the book. But
suggests that everybody likes this book, I don't want to be.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah. I think when you build expectation too high in
your mind, it kind of raises the bar and makes
it less enjoyable.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Right, exactly, So I'd rather just go and not knowing anything.
That's why I have the paperback Hall of Shame, because
I'm just getting all these books. I'm like, oh, this
is really lousy. I wish I'd known ahead of time,
but that would that would kind of ruin the fun.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Of it, exactly. Yeah. All right, so let's let's review
this book here, Eric, let's get into it. This beautiful
cover I got here, that's great. I think this was
the last edition they did. Yeah, okay, so there was
another less gothic looking edition which I'll pop on the
(11:13):
screen there, and then I think this was the last one. Nice. Okay, yeah,
that's beautiful. That's classic, classic gothic cover.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, I love that all right.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So the story takes place in New Zealand, which you
know now I'm not surprised by it, but I was
at first. It stars Alice. Alice is arriving in New
Zealand to meet her friend Camella. Camilla has invited her
to come visit, to come stay in this country setting.
(11:50):
They're out in the rural area and when Alice arrives,
she goes to get on the bus and who's there
but her ex boyfriend Felix. Yes, surprise, surprise, And Felix
is someone that she was in love with who dumped her,
(12:12):
and so she's not too excited to see Felix right,
and he's taking her out to Camilla's house, which means
that he's probably there as and he has an interest
in Camilla. They all had known each other because they
were actors and they put on plays. Felix was the
(12:35):
producer director and Camilla and Alice were the actresses. Little
backstory there, a little backstory, and so Alice goes to
the cabin where Camilla is working as a teacher in
this small town and Camilla's not there. Felix leaves, he
(12:58):
goes back to the bus. She's there all by her.
She goes inside through the window through the open window,
breaks in and there's a hungry cat and then there
is a bird, one of those talking birds. Yeah, and
the bird is screeching, go away, ominous warning. Almost six
(13:20):
the bird with the ominous warning. Alice goes upstairs to
look around and she hears someone downstairs and at first
she thinks it's Camilla, but there's kind of a huge
ruckus and then she hears the person running out the door,
so she surprised someone. So she's scared. She's alone, alone
(13:44):
in this rural area, all by herself, in the shanty
cabin where the water leaks through the roof because it's raining.
There's hungry cats mewing and birds yelling go away. So
not a warm welcome for Alice. No, So Felix shows
back up. He is like, oh, Camilla was. She was
(14:06):
into the dudes. She had many, many interests, many male interests.
So she's probably just out with one of them. It's
not a big deal. And Als thinks this is strange,
it's not really your personality. She sees a note on
the calendar that says meeting with d. He's so impetuous.
(14:34):
So I think, right, there was the first thing, the
first hint of Twin Peaks that I saw, because like
in Twin Peaks, they have Laura's diary and she says
meeting with J at three or whatever, and they have
to figure out who this J is. And Laura also
dated a few guys at the same time, so we
(14:57):
have so we have Camilla, and I mean, we don't know.
Maybe she's dead, maybe she's alive. Who knows. Yeah, Rick,
let me let me ask you this. Yes, I wrote
you a letter. I said, Eric, come visit me my
house in Ohio, and you show up and and I'm
(15:19):
not here, even though I texted you I'll see you
at three, buddy, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, I would find it a bit odd. I would
definitely think there's something going on. This is not like
you to just not be here, right. And I've got
a couple of thoughts on this first chapter. I know
we're not completely done reviewing it, but I got a
couple of thoughts. First, I thought it was interesting that
the Gothic trope was used here, but you said a
(15:49):
little differently. If you'll recall Camilla, who's the side character.
She thought the protagonist. She's the one that accepts the
job to be the school teacher in the village. And
I think at the beginning it said that Camilla had
just moved there, maybe like a month or two ago,
maybe three months ago, So she was the one that
accepted the job. And that's normally what the protagonist gets
(16:10):
in the in the Gothics is except as we talked
about last week or the last episode, becoming a teacher,
becoming a you know, babysitter or some kind or nurse
or something like that. But Camilla is the one that
I ended up getting the job in town to be
the teacher. The other thing was kind of interesting was
(16:30):
when Alice was in the house. I thought it was
really spooky that there's nobody there, but then she also
hears footsteps as if someone just left the house and
it is leaving. So I was like, Okay, they've done
something to Camilla, and now they're trying to like hide
something in the house or or cover up something. And
then you mentioned to me earlier that Twin Peaks also
used a bird or something like some kind of ominous
(16:53):
warning from a bird or something.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yes, yes, there's when when Laura's getting killed in Twin Peaks,
there's there's a bird with a message.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Interesting. That kind of makes me wonder if David Lynch
read this book.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You know, and I know, And I don't want to
sell the Twin Peaks too hard because it's not it's
not as wacky. It's more just like the beginning of
Twin Peaks, when it's sort of just a regular mystery
before it gets into the Black Lodge and all that
got it.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Okay, carry on.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So while Felix is there, Dundas the neighbor shows up. Yeah,
he has the first initial of D. Here's our first D.
And later on in a little while, Alice also remembers
that Felix's last name is D and that Camilla used
to call him by that last name. Yeah, so Felix
is our He's our first D. Dune, this is our
(17:48):
second D. Dundas is really worried about Camilla, whereas Felix
is just like, eh, she's out out and about Dundas
is charming, and Alice is like, oh, who's this strange man.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
He's the tall, dark and mysterious he's is he tall?
I don't know if he is.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
When they describe him everything about him, I just imagine
a little squirrelly guy. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
The symbolism there. He's the tall, dark stranger that she
doesn't know. But yeah, he's he lives next door. And yeah,
like he said, he's possibly had a or prior relationship
or hook up with Camilla. For sure.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yes, yes, so they done. Both Felix and Dundas leave.
Alix looks around the house more. She finds a letter
that is supposedly written from Camilla that says that she
ran off to get married. Sorry I'm not here, I'm
off getting married. And Alice is like, oh, well that's
(18:57):
I mean, that's not even really her handwriting and not
her personality, so that's probably not true. So there's some
suspicious things going on here.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, most definitely. Yeah, I wasn't really sure the first chapter.
I was like, Okay, Camilla is probably dead and this
book is going to be an investigation into her whereabouts
what's happened to her. But then as we get further
into book, there's little hints here and there that Camilla
is alive and well and she's pirsally fine.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, yeah, she's fine. Don't worry about Eric. She's okay.
It's almost like how you said the trope of Camilla
goes there to get the job. It's almost like she
was the original Gothic that didn't turn out well.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's like this story could have actually been
about her. She was the original Gothic story here getting
the cleanup into Yeah, it's interesting. I never really thought
about it that way.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
You're right, Yeah, it's when Gothics go wrong, right, Yeah,
poor Camela. But she hey, maybe she's a live We
we just I wanted to let you all know we're
not there's We're not gonna spoil the end of this one.
We're not going all the way to the end. We're
gonna leave it open. Yes, this is pretty enjoyable little mystery.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah. I think people should read this and find out
the ending for themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
So the next morning, Dundas has invited her over. She
goes next door. I guess they live right next door,
and Dundas has a daughter name of Margaretta, who is shabby.
She dresses like a poor person, I don't know, like
(20:46):
a like an almost person. The way it's described is
so ridiculous. The really dials it in.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, she's dressed distastefully compared to like some of the.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Others, and she is not friendly. She's not friendly, and
she uh just seems to be almost the maid like
barely his daughter. Yeah, Alice is not. She notices it,
but she doesn't really care. She's kind of charmed by Dundas.
(21:16):
And they notice that he has a lot of little
figurines around. Yeah, he's a he's a collector of objects.
I guess.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, he's kind of like a bit of a hoarder.
He's got a lot of stuff at his house, which
we'll find out later he's got stuff at his house,
but yeah, he he either collects or he makes these
little figurines, little like little little figures, like little figures
that are creepy.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yes, And the daughter is not into it, she's not
she's not into that stuff. At the breakfast, Dundas is
asking lots of questions about Camilla, about what Alice has
found out, I guess about about her disappearance, and Alice
(22:07):
mentions that she found a diary. He wants to know
what's in the diary, and then he just is like, oh,
we should just burn it, which is insane. It's just
an insane thing to say, oh, you found a diary,
we should probably burn that thing.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah right, it was where that he jumped to that
so fast.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, he's like, is my name in there? Go ahead
and burn it. Yeah, so there you go. You got
the diary. So there is another connection there to Twin Peaks.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And then and then Margaretta says something very strange.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Oh yeah, that's right. He's like, he's like, oh, I'll
so so you can move in, so there's room for you.
I'll you're going to live there. I don't know. We'll help.
I'll help move Camilla's things out. And then the daughter
finally pipes up and says, you should. You should let
him help. He loves women's clothes. Yeah, which I believe that.
(23:05):
Got a text message too, like, whoa, what is up
with that?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah? I think I texted your you texted me? He goes, okay,
this is crazy. Yeah, what is going on? So Margaretta
is really weird?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah? So not only is is Margaretta weird, but now
we have this dundas who's yes, he's charming, but he
also he's a hoarder. He has these little dolls that
he's kind of obsessed with, and supposedly he is really
into women's clothes. Yeah, OK, so I don't know. Things
(23:39):
are mysterious. They're mysterious around here.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
So the next day she finishes up everything with them,
so that she goes the next day and she meets
up with the rich and reclusive other d Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So at the end, the one and only in in town. Yeah,
everyone's there. Everyone's there at the end for dinner, and yes,
we meet the other d which is Dalton, who has
a sister, Catherine. Yep, do you want to describe Katherine.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
So she is very, very weird, she's nuts, and apparently
she just never leaves her house like she's she lives
with Dalton, she never leaves. Camilla was apparently the only
person that really kind of had like almost almost like
a sympathetic nature to Catherine, so she would always go
over and visit Catherine. So they had quite a little bond.
(24:37):
But yeah, Catherine's weird.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yes, And I think that this also reminded me of
Twin Peaks and the relation to how Laura did the
meals on wheels and she went and like gave food
to the guy who would never leave.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
His house there you go, Okay, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Catherine is like an a adult child. When she's upset,
she's very upset. And when she's happy, she's crazily happy.
They Alice and Catherine and Margaretta are having a conversation
and where they decide where they discover that Margaretta is
(25:18):
has a dance coming up or she got invited to
a dance, yeah, and Catherine is very beautiful, She is
very elegant. And Catherine's like, well, we got to get you,
We got to get you some clothes, girl, you can't
be wearing potato sacked to the dance. And they they're like, oh,
(25:42):
there's a bunch of clothes back at back at Dundas's house,
back at my house in the attic. So the three
ladies go back to the house and dress up Margaretta
and they're kind of like wondering, why why are there
all these women's clothes here? Yeah, to which I don't
(26:07):
think Margaretta really answers them. I think she's like, oh,
there was like my mom or maybe does she even saying.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
That, Yeah, she says they were my mom's clothes, yeah,
or also that they were the previous girlfriend after the
mom died, there was a girlfriend and her clothes were there,
including I think that girlfriend's wedding dress because she was
going to get married. But yeah, she just disappeared. She's
just gone one day. Interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, so yeah, I know, Dune, This to me is
just like serial killer stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah. Everything here is suggesting that he's a psychopath.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, I mean I got it. Eric got it. Alice
she didn't get it. She's not feeling it. She still
thinks that he's good looking. And then back to Dalton.
He's also a good looking fella, but he's not as friendly.
He's not as friendly to Alice. He's he doesn't really,
(27:08):
he's really just all he cares about is Kamilla. Where's Kamilla? Yeah,
so we don't know. Camilla is still missing. Felix is like, ay,
she'll show up. Done. This is really obsessed with it, like,
oh my god, where is she? And then Dalton is
(27:28):
also stoically upset. Catherine is kind of upset, but she's
also excited that Alice is there. She's like, oh, well,
I got this new friend.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
She invites her new friend over for dinner lunch the
next day the Dalton mansion because they're very rich. Yes,
they're very very wealthy.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Alice is like the new pet thing. Yeah, my new
pretty come over.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So in preparation, in preparation for this, Alice decides that
she's going to think like Camilla. In order to understand
what happened to Camilla, she must become Camilla. She must
kind of date these guys.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
At that she was, she was dating, and I was like, Okay,
now now this is getting crazy because this is Twin Peaks,
this is Donna. This is exactly what Donna does in
Twin Peaks, where she's like she starts to act like Laura,
she starts to date James. Yeah, I was, yeah, that's
(28:34):
what I was like. Man, did he read this? Did
David let you read this? Did you look it up?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
The Twin Peaks hits just keep coming, right.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I know. So up at their up at the mansion,
there is the uh Dalton, who's not happy to see Alice.
He doesn't want her there. He's not friendly. He's polite,
but not friendly. And then there's Catherine, who is very excited,
very excited that Alice is there.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
She's giddy, she is.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
She's very giddy. And but we also have they have
a I guess a maid of the house. Yes, and
she's kind of like the most normal person in town.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah. Her name is Totty Totty Totty.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, and so they have they have dinner. The the
cook is really weird and mean, she's mean to Alice.
Dalton doesn't want to be there, but Catherine's very excited
and she's trying to get information about Camilla. But Catherine
(29:50):
doesn't really care about Camilla anymore. She's replaced her with Alice.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, it's almost like, well, Alice is trying to get
information from Dalton about Camilla and the relationship. It's almost
like Catherine's playing interference, like she's constantly just in the
way mm hm. And just like you said, I don't know,
she's just she's just so fascinated with Alice being there
and her new pet thing, Alice that she's kind of
(30:17):
like interfering with Alice's investigation.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
And so Alice is getting bad vibes and she's like,
you know what, I'm out of here. This this sucks.
It's raining. It's been raining like the whole book. The
whole book is just pouring down rain. Yeah, it's actually
kind of awesome. It kind of really it sets the mood.
So Alice like, I want to go home, and Dalton's like, yeah,
let's go, I'll take you home right now. And Catherine's like,
(30:43):
hold on a second, I have to go grab something,
don't don't leave yet.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And while Alice Dalton are talking, Catherine comes in from
outside soaking wet with I just imagine like the most
insane smile on her face. Yeah, and she's like, okay, Alice,
thanks for coming over, right, And Dalton and Alice go
to leave, and there is flat tires, all all flat
(31:13):
tires on the rolls Royce. Yeah, I mean it's pretty obvious.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, Catherine slashed the tires to keep
Alice her new pretty thing there.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah yeah. And Dalton is just kind of like just
like resigned, like here, I guess you're staying the night.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So Catherine gets her way and and Alice is staying
the night and they show her to the to her room,
which is just like the worst I would I wouldn't
care that it was raining I had come out of here.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, I mean you got to think about it. Camilla
is missing, She's in the strange Alice's in this strange
village with strange people that she doesn't know. She's just
had her tires slashed, and she probably knows that Catherine
did it. And now she's being ushered over to a
bedroom where she's gonna have to spend the night with
these crazies. Oh man, in this rainstorm. Yeah right, I
(32:09):
mean it's from a literary standpoint, I mean it's it's
it's great.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
It is this. Yeah, this was my favorite part of
the book. I was so all in at this point.
I was like, oh man, what's going to happen. What's
going to happen poor Alice? Yeah, and it is and
it it delivers. So she's getting she's up in the
room and what did you say? Her name was Toddy?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
The Toddy is there and she's the maid, and she's
getting everything prepared for the bed.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
And Toddy gives her She says normal things first, and
then on the way out, she's like, you better lock
the door at night, and then just scurris on down
the hallway.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, if it were me, I would lock this door.
And I was and I was like, this is crazy,
Like this is.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Bad, oh man, so good. So Alice tries to chase
her down and she's gone, and she's like, Okay, well
I guess I'll go to bed. Yeah, and in the
in the middle of it. So, so she's sleeping and
she has this dream with with Camilla in it and
she's like you help me or and Camilla is like,
(33:20):
you got to get out of this house. You got
to get out of this house. And Alice wakes up.
First off, she didn't lock her door because she thought
it would be rude, which, yeah, right, who cares at
that point? Yeah, So she wakes up in the middle
of the night and there's really a voice in the
darkness in her room and it's laughing, m h, I'm
(33:44):
assuming some kind of evil way. And then it said
the boy says Camilla is here. Isn't that a joke?
And Alice is like, who, who are you? Like, she's
freaking out, and she goes to get up and she
can't get up. Something's holding her back. So someone is
holding her down on the bed. Yes, pure panic this
(34:09):
pure panic mode.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
She eventually can reach over and turn on the light.
No one's in the room anymore, and she realizes that
no one's holding her down. Someone had just tied her headband,
her hair to the bedstand.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
I was. Yeah, I read this thing at night and
I was like, this is amazing. This is so creepy.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah. At first I thought she was being held down
and they were They were like some kind of sacrifice.
I was like, this is some kind of sacrifice. They're
holding her down, They're going to plunge a knife in
her heart or something. But then it was almost like
even more terrifying you realize that somebody tied her up
and left. I know that was weird.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Just someone standing in your room and in the middle
of the night, some stranger is creepy enough, but didn't
They're just like laughing and then they're like, oh, your
friend is here. What does that mean? Is Camilla in
the house? Is it Camilla? As she lost her mind?
And she's like in this house? What have they done
to her? Yeah, this just opened the door to so
(35:15):
many questions.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Well, Alice does what I would do. She just gets
up and leaves.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yes she does.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Mila Knight, it's raining out of Cara, out of her.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, she does. And there and there we have it.
We actually have a woman running from a house in
the middle of the night. That's one the one light
on that was her room. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, that's gonna
get high points on the litmus tests.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, which we're gonna do. She's leaving, she's walking back
to her house and it's thundering, storming, lightning, And as
she's walking back, she gets to the yard of the
uh of Camilla's cabin and what does she fought?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Of Camille's cabin? She finds this is sad. This is sad.
The bird is dead.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, someone has twisted the bird's neck apparently for top.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, the bird had a message and then shut it up.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
And then I think the front cover of your paperback
is really the scene that happens here, because a tree
falls and you can see that tree in the background.
It falls and knocks Alice on the head, knocks her out,
and then she wakes up and she's at dundas His
(36:43):
house and uh, She's like, how did I get here?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
So yeah, so the doctor comes and he says that
she has to stay in bed or whatever. Days go by.
Daughter's rude and Dundas asks asked Alice to marry him.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, I mean why not.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
They've known each other for forty eight hours.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Yeah, that's the way these books go. In the love
of my life. I've wanted you my entire life. I've
known you for twenty four hours.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And what's your answer, Eric, What do you say to Dundas?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Alice says yes, what do you say? I would say no, Yeah,
maybe this guy's playing with little figurines his his his
house is wacky potatoes daughter, you know, I don't know.
I would say no.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, wife's ex wife, Dad. You know how she died?
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, his ex wife fell on top of the glacier.
So I don't know if we said it, but Dundas
as a photographer. Mm hmm, and uh so one of
his favorite places to shoot is on top of this glacier.
So she she was up there in apparently slipped and
fell off the glacier and died.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Slipped through a cravasse, basically buried alive. Yeah, oh what
a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, so yeah, I would say no, But Alice says yes, yes.
And then and we can't tell you the rest of
the book because we would ruin it for you.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, so we're gonna leave it open there. So you
have your suspects. They're all shady, they're all crazy. Yeah, all, I.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Don't know what were your you know, what were your
thoughts on the book after reading it? What do you think?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I was so into this. I devoured it. I thought
it had just wonderful atmosphere and it was very it
was very creepy. Yeah, I mean the I don't know
if the correlation that I made to Twin Peaks in
my head made me enjoy it more where I felt
like I was reading a novel is of Twin Peaks,
(39:02):
which could could be possible. Yeah, I think towards the end,
I was like, it was definitely I enjoyed the beginning
more than more than the end.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, okay, I enjoyed the first half of the book
a lot. I was really interested. I was invested. I
needed to know what happened to Camilla. That part was
a really central to the story. It's the whole point
of the book. It's the mystery. I wanted to know
what happened to her. Dalton and done Us were we're
(39:41):
interesting characters to me. I still had a little bit
of trouble understanding Dalton and the girl and then done
Us to the girl because they were kind of running together.
For me, like there wasn't there wasn't enough contrast there
to keep them separate from me, so I kind of
had to in my mind. I kept one back and
forth like wait a minute, who's with who again? And
(40:04):
but once I got that under wraps, you know, I
was able to figure you know, kind of figure it out.
But the second half of the book, like you, it
was kind of let down a little bit. The end,
there are I think mannequins are really creepy. Yeah, there
are mannequins at the end that serve in the finale.
But I was a little bit let down at the
(40:25):
at the end. But it was a lot of fun
getting there, and I definitely recommend the book, no doubt,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, I think that the only the place that was
a misstep was the getting married, And I understand why
she did it, but it just everything up until that
point made sense. And then you were like, like, she
wouldn't Why would she just say yes to this do
after forty eight hours? Who's creepy and weird anyway, even
though she has attracted to them, it's just just now
(40:56):
she would have done. And then not only that, but
almost immediately she regrets it. She's like, I want to
get out of this.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, I thought the author, uh took some liberties with
the story and I kind of, I don't know, she
kind of let the I don't know, she kind of
let the air out of the balloon with the character
with Alice. It was like she just kind of deflated Alice.
Like Alice is smart, she's intelligent, she's brave. You know,
(41:23):
she's staying in this house where her friend basically disappeared.
She's spending the night there. She's fine with that. She
was okay spending the night with you know, with crazy Catherine. Yeah.
So its like but then it was kind of underwhelming
when she said yes to the marriage thing. It was like,
it doesn't really serve a purpose. But but overall it's
(41:44):
a good book. I recommend it. I think people should
read it. I liked your comparisons to the Twin Peaks.
I thought that was cool. That's by against my second
Dorothy Eden novel. This was better than the one that
I read before it, and I think i'd probably read
another door the book.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, no, that was great. It
was it was very it was very Gothic. We'll put
it to the test, all right, So here we go.
The Gothic Lutmus Test trademark, Nick and Eric don't be
stealing it. Other gothic podcasts, all those other gothic podcasts.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Out there, thousands of imitators.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
All right, so let's start with the cover art. I
guess there's so many different ones. How do we do this?
Do we just do?
Speaker 2 (42:39):
So? The the Ace version, which is the Brooding Lake,
That's what it was published under. I would say, is
gothic artwork for sure?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah? Yeah, definitely. I mean it's it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
So yes, does the cover art have a woman running
from a house? Would you say? I guess I don't
need to put it up, so I'll put it up
on screen.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, because mine, my version, she's running from the house.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, yeah, two two for two. Do we have a
light on? Do we have one light on in that artwork?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I think? So let's see, Uh yeah, there's one light on?
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, you got it. Mine only has a moon. It
doesn't have a light. She's not running from a.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
House's got the light right there?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
You know what we're going to count it. I'm feeling
I'm feeling giving today. All right. Then we move on
to the themes. We got a stranger in a strange Land. Yeah, absolutely,
most definitely. Yeah, she's I believe she was from from
England before she went to Yeah, yeah, I have the
(43:49):
next one as gas lighting. Is anyone making her feel
like what she's saying isn't true? M m.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
No, I don't think it has any of that.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, I don't. I think the only one who could
maybe be closed is Felix. But he's more just like,
don't worry, like.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
It's yeah, I think to be reassuring.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Okay, so no gas lighting, no gas lighting. Is there
a handsome man with questionable motives? Oh yeah, yes, there
is a bunch of them.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Is there romance yeah sort of yeah, yeah, because she
said yes to the marriage things. So yeah, it's definitely.
It's definitely not romantic in any any sense of the word.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
No, but it does have romance.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
But it does have romance references. Yeah, mystery absolutely.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah, the whole the.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Whole basis is there hints of the superna natural.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
No no, no, none.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah, there's there's no no ghostly stuff here. And then
we have the nurse type job the yeah Camilla, Yeah,
but that's Kamila though I would say.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
It doesn't affect the protagonist though, she doesn't have a
job of a new job.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Right, so that's a Now we got isolated setting, most definitely,
most definitely. And then the one thing that we didn't
cover in Decoyan Diamonds was the atmosphere. The atmosphere which
(45:41):
is just like you know, the rain, the moon. Does
it feel gothic to you?
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah? Yeah, Eden Dorothy Eaton's always describing the rain outside
the rain of thunder, lightning wind. Yeah, you definitely got that.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I think in the finale, you've got a dark house
if you recall, it's a dark house with the mannequins.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. This whole thing is is dripping
with gothic atmosphere. Yeah, so what do you got? What's
your square here? We got six seven, nine, a nine
out out of eleven. Is that what we have?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Probably we do refine our test, but yeah, majority rules there.
So yeah, it's definitely gothic.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
It definitely is. And I mean, ultimately, even if it
scored kind of lower, we actually have a woman running
from a house in the middle of the night in
the story. You see you can't boom, you cannot Yeah,
you can't. You can't beat that, all right, So that
was a lot of fun. Yeah, I wanted to show
(46:58):
you a book here, Eric. It's called Gothic Novels of
the Twentieth Century and Anne's Feated Bibliography by Elsa J. Radcliffe.
Have you ever heard of this book?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
I have, because the person who gifted that to us
sent me a message as well.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yes, this was gifted to us for the show by
Alan from the Book Suppository. He has his own YouTube channel,
the Book Suppository people. Do you know a movie that's
from Eric.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
The Book Suppository JFK.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
No, that's close though. Yeah, Full Metal Jacket, Private Snowball. Okay,
he says it, he says the Book Suppository building.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
So this book is basically just lists like every gothic book,
she's aware of author, and if she's read it, she
gives little snarky reviews. It's a little like snarky three
sentence reviews.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
That's fascinating it is.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah, it's not gothic horror. It's the gothic that we're
talking about, the gothic mystery.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Does does she have this book in?
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Wow? That's something I should have looked up. You know
what's funny is I just flipped to a page and
it's dark Cypress, which is what we were supposed to read.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I can ask you a question,
Nick about your shirt. Yeah, why is Cincinnati spelled with
an A at the end? What am I missing here?
Is this? Like?
Speaker 1 (48:43):
I made it?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Oh? You made it?
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, it's it's kind of a it's a tribute to
my grandma. My grandma loves the Cincinnati Reads and for
some reason, she would pronounce it the Cincinnata Reads. And
it was always like a family joke that that's how
you say Cincinnata Cincinnati, Okay, And I thought it was
(49:05):
so I made these shirts for Christmas last year for
all my family members on that side of the family.
Is a tribute to her. And I was watching I
watched all the baseball games on YouTube, and it was
it was some game, some World Series or something from
the the sixties or the fifties, and the Baltimore coach
(49:27):
was on. They were talking to him and he called
them the Cincinnata Reds. Really yeah, I was like, maybe
that's just the way people used to say it. Yeah,
I don't see brooding Lake. What was the other title
for it, Lamb to the Slaughter, Lamb to the Slaughter. Well,
(49:50):
neither of them are in here. That's so weird.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Sinn Allen's book back to him, Alan, you are dead
to us.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Dead, thanks a lot, Alan looks a pository.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
No, that really does seem like a really cool book, though.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Very wait there it is there. I'm sorry. I take
it all back, Al, and I take it all back
a lot. There's no review though, it's just okay.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Let's just it's got to mention that that's cool. We're sorry, Alan,
please send us more books.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Right, sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Last thing before we go, Right before we came on today,
I was on X and somebody had posted a photo
of a comic book and I can't remember who it was.
It may have been Captain October, but I can't remember.
But anyway, Nick, there is a four issue comic book
series from DC that came out in nineteen seventy one,
(50:52):
and it's called The Dark Mansion of Forbidden Love. There's
the first issue, and it's a gothic it's basically these
four the first four issues of this comic book series
is a standalone story of this of this gothic romance,
(51:12):
basically a graphic novel but broken up into four issues.
And here, yeah, there's the second issue, Dark Mansion, Forbidden Love,
issue number two, How You Interfere? And then there's the
third one and you can see there's one light in
the background, woman running from the house, and then there
(51:35):
you go. And then it goes from that. They rechange,
they retitle it to well, that's the first page of
the first issue, Mystery of the Missing Bride who killed Bettina?
Very gothic. But then I apparently it didn't sell well,
so then they changed it to Forbidden Tales of Dark Mansion.
And these are basically like an anthology, just a standalone
(51:57):
stories and all the other issues. But I felt like
we should probably at some point tackle these first four
issues which make up us. I guess a novel. I
should read it.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
I'm so down this is These are amazing looking.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, it was pretty cool. And apparently there is other
gothic suspense Gothic romance comics like Haunted Love from DC.
I think one was a spin off of like a
Secret of Sinister House. Maybe, but I'll dig into it.
I'll let you know.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
But it's called Haunted Love.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, Haunted Love.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Isn't that what Justin calls his gothic segment in the
paperback fanatic.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah, I think so busted.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
You're busted justice, there you go.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
So, but yeah, we'll have to h we'll have to
pick up another book and review it for another another
Guide to Gothics episode. I don't know what we're gonna
read next though.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yeah, we got to figure it out. This one was
kind of it fell apart. It was supposed to be
the Edwina Noon Cypress. I almost said Cypress.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
Hill, Dark Cypress by it, Yeah, not Cypress Hill. The
book also known as Michael Evaloni.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, Michael Avloni Dark Cypress. It was supposed to be that,
but I thought I had it and I can't find it,
and it's like twenty dollars.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Yeah, it's expensive. Yeah, nobody has scanned it yet unfortunately,
so I don't have the heart to rip up my
book and scan it, so.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yes, please, yeah, I don't do that. So, yeah, I
don't know. We'll surprise you. We'll surprise you with what's
coming next and when it's coming next.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Yeah, exactly cool, Well right, welsome.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Yeah, that's it for today. Thanks everyone for watching, and
we'll see you next time later. Peace out. Stop
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