September 1, 2023 • 54 mins
Lester Velez is a graduate of the University of Vermont with a Bachelor of Science degree in business administration. Beginning in September of 1970, he served in the U.S. Army as a field artillery officer and was later vice president of Luscombe Engineering, a Silicon-Valley based manufacturer’s representative company. He joined MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network, in 1991 and has held the following positions: Field investigator, Training Coordinator for field investigators, the Assistant State Director in Northern California, Chairman of the A.E.R.C. (Abduction Experiencer Research Committee), and team leader of the A.R.T. (Abduction Response Team). Also during that time, he became a facilitator for an abduction support group in San Jose California, and in 1994 co-founded OPUS, the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:37):
Welcome to the Paranormal Steakhout Radio TVshow with Larry Lawson. As a former
career law enforcement officer and law enforcementeducator, Larry focuses on the use of
tried and true law enforcement investigative techniquesin conducting paranormal investigations. Despite his experience
and training, Larry also and keepsan open mind to discussions on topics that
(01:00):
deal with evidence that are not quiteas physical in nature. Paranormal Stakeout guests
are professionals in the field of theparanormal and parapsychology, conducting the investigations and
research needed to further the cause ofparanormal study. Larry advocates an agenda of
standardization of structure and training in thefield of paranormal investigation and research for the
(01:23):
purpose of one day being able toproduce the evidence needed to convince a jury
of the existence of the paranormal.Whether it is ghosts, UFOs, unsolved
mysteries, hauntings, or cryptids,no topic is beyond the investigative reach of
Larry Lawson and the Paranormal Stakecot radioTV show team. Now Here is the
(01:44):
host of the Paranormal Stakeout Radio TVshow Larry Lawson. Hello everyone, and
(02:07):
welcome back to Paranormal Steak Out.I'm your host, Larry Lawson, coming
to you from the headquarters of theFlorida Vira Paranormal Investigation and Indian River Hauntings
in beautiful Vero Beach, Florida.I want to start off the show is
most of you out there now.We had a visitor that came through this
form of a hurricane this last week. It missed our area completely, but
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I just want to send some thoughtsto all those folks up in what we
call the Big Bend to Florida,and that's where the Bend turns turns to
the west and Crescent Beach and alla couple of the other little towns up
there. The devastation was terrible andI just want to send my thoughts and
prayers to my Phillow Floridians and praythat they will get through this. And
(02:51):
also the folks in Georgia, SouthCarolina, North Carolina that also I've been
suffering from this storm, So keepthem in your thoughts and prayers. A
little bit about us if you're interestedin hearing about my team, the Florida
Beer of Paranormal investigation. You cango and check us out at Paranormal fbi
dot com. That's our website.You can also catch us on Facebook.
Indian River Hauntings is the subsidiary ofthat organization and we do historical events and
(03:16):
you can get a hold of usthere at Indian Riverhaunings dot com or on
Facebook Indian River Haunting. So youcan also check out what we do on
facebo so o YouTube at Indie Riverhauntingstwo three four one. You want to
get a hold of me on thisshow, just send me an email at
ghosts Guy at Paranormal Steakeout dot org. It's Paranormal ghost Guy at Paranormal steakeout
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dot org. And you can alsocheck out my website at Paranormal steakeout dot
org. So thanks for being heretonight, got a really interesting show.
A gentleman that I've been very anxiousto get get on the show and introduce
him to all of you. Hisname is Lester V. Les Less,
a graduate of the University of Vermontwith bachelor degree in Business administration. Starting
(04:03):
in September of nineteen seventy, hebegan to serve our country and the US
Army as a field artillery officer.After that, he later became the vice
president of Lescombe Engineering, a SiliconValley based manufacturers representative company. He later
in the early nineteen nineties joint muffon the mutual UFO Network. In nineteen
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ninety one, has held several positionsincluding field investigator, Training coordinator for Field
Investigators, Assistant state director in NorthernCalifornia, Chairman of the Abduction Experience or
Research Committee, and team leader ofthe Abduction Response Team. Also during that
time he became a facilitator for anabduction support group in San Jose, California,
(04:45):
and in nineteen ninety four co foundedOPUS, the Organization for Paranormal Understanding
and Support. So with that,I'd like to welcome to Paranormal Stakeout mister
Lesto laz Less. Welcome to theshow. Hey, Larry, thank you
so much for having me. Reallyapreciate it. Well, I've been anxious
to talk with you now. I'vehad a chance to see some of your
stuff and know a bit about you, but many of my listeners may not,
(05:10):
so tell us a little bit aboutyourselves. I went over a little
bit of your bio, but tellus how how you got into the field.
Ah, yes, Well, it'sinteresting how these things happened to bring
you down a certain path. Itactually started for me when I was eleven
years old, and I was livingin Connecticut at the time, and I
(05:32):
was coming into the house after feedingmy dog. This was late in October,
and it was already, you know, pretty dark at that point,
and I noticed off to my right, hovering over this tree line, not
too far from me, this objectwhich was emanating a light, sort of
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a subdued white light, and itwasn't no sound. There was no sound,
and it was slowly moving from whereit was to an area that was
a couple of streets away in asoutherly direction, and it scared the hell
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out of me because I didn't knowwhat it was. And I ran into
the house and tried to get myfather to come out, and by the
time he did come out, itwas gone, of course, and he
said, oh, it's probably justa beacon of light reflecting off a cloud
or something. Well, I didn'tbelieve it, and I went to the
library soon thereafter, and you know, picked up a couple of books on
(06:34):
UFOs. And back in the latefifties, Georgia Dampski was the guy that
was talking about UFOs and had someincredible books that he put out in pictures
of these UFOs that he had taken, and so I was really got into
it. Well, you know,became an adolescent, and then UFOs kind
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of left my train of thought,and you know, girls came a little
bit more interesting for me, andI kind of forgot about the whole thing.
And I went off to college,became a member of the ROTC,
and subsequently went into the service.And when I graduated from college, I
(07:16):
got married, and being an officer, I was able to bring my wife
with me. Well, you know, things were just going along, and
in nineteen eighty five, I hadthe opportunity to buy into a company in
northern California called Luscom Engineering, andso I did. I moved out there
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and I picked up the San JoseMercury News one day and a gentleman by
the name of Stanton Freeman, anuclear physicist, was coming to San Jose
City College to talk about UFOs andthe government cover up. Well, oh
my god, it was like somebodythrew a switch and I said, I
gotta go see this guy. SoI went there. I expected to see
a handful of people, but theauditorium was at Stanton did as one of
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his inevitable great presentations, and I'mon my way out. There was a
table set up by an organization calledMOOF on the Mutual UFO Network, which
was established in nineteen sixty nine bya couple of engineers in Sekine, Texas,
and they produced a monthly journal,and so I decided to get that
(08:26):
journal and read about cases. Well, after a while that wasn't enough for
me, and they also had afield investigator training course, and so I
decided, Okay, I'm going tostudy up and see if I could pass
this thing. And I did.And the cases that I got involved with
almost without exception, not only werepeople telling me about their sightings, but
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then they also told me that theyhad contact with non human intelligences, which
the first case, you know,I was kind of a nuts and bolts
kind of a guy. But afterthe second or third person telling me that
they had contact with non human intelligence, I said, something's going on and
it's pretty significant. And so that'sthe wheels started turning. And these people
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would ask me do I know ofother people having similar experiences? And the
next thing I'm doing I'm facilitating asupport group in my office and listening or
contacts. Yeah, yeah, youcan. You know, the terminology,
you know, back in those dayswas abductees, but subsequently it's become contact
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these now it's experiencers. Okay,neutral terminology, you know, it could
it could go either way. Youknow, if it's an abductee it has
a negative connotation, or a contacthe has a more positive and the experiencer
is neutral. So anyway, thesepeople wanted to know if they could get
together with other people, and Isaid sure, so we did, and
(09:58):
I started to hear incredible stories.And one day I got a I got
a call from the head of Moufonand he said, this reporter down in
Monterey would like to speak with youabout what you're doing. And I said,
well, okay, sure, youknow, you can give my contact
information and we we had a niceconversation. He wrote up this great article
(10:22):
and he had my my my pictureon the front of this close weekly paper.
And uh. Subsequently I got acall from a woman down in Carmel
and she wanted to find out whatwas going on with her brain when she
was in contact with these off earthlyentities. And I said to myself,
(10:45):
well, I have no idea howI could possibly help her. But then
she said she was in working withan emergency room doctor in Carmel, and
I had a doctor friend, doctorEugene Lipson, who was very interested in
working with other doctors that were interestedin the phenomena. So I said,
why don't we go down there andlet's let's talk to her at least,
(11:05):
you know, and then you couldmeet this other doctor. So we walked
into her house and there was apicture on the wall and she's standing on
the back of this vessel, afairly good sized vessel and obviously beautiful,
crystal clear blue waters in the Caribbeansomewhere. And I said, what's this
all about? She said, all, I was helping these treasure hunters And
(11:28):
I said, really, I said, how were you doing that? She
said, well, I was incontact with the captain of the galleon that
had gone down, and that startedthe afternoon off okay, And we subsequently
found out that because of a neardeath experience that she had had, she
became very psychic, and these capabilitiesin contacting these offer at the entities became
(11:50):
a really prominent part of her lifeand so when we left that afternoon,
it was like, how can wepossibly help people like And that's when OPUS
was hatched, the Organization for ParanormalUnderstanding and Support. We uh we we
we said, well, you know, if if this kind of thing is
going on, we need to beable to try to figure out how to
(12:11):
help people like that. So it'sit's been a it's been an incredible journey,
and we can go into what we'veactually ended up doing. But she
told the stuff about ourselves the restof the afternoon that there was no possible
way that she could she could beyou know, uh, you know,
(12:33):
have that kind of knowledge because wedidn't know her from Adam until she called
us in case I missed this.So she had the psychic ability as a
result. Yes, her contact experience, yes, but but no no contact
with alien beings at this point.No, she was, she was in
(12:56):
contact with them. Uh, butit was telepathic type of I guess that's
what I'm getting at. So you'retelling me there's a bridge between folks that
have that gift, that ability andnot only contacting maybe folks such as I
investigate spirits, but you're also sayingaliens. Yes, absolutely, all right,
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well, we're gonna I definitely wantto examine that a little bit further
too, because that is a bigissue today. So go on. So
Opus was formed, and you've beenworking that ever since. Right in the
nineteen ninety four, we officially becamea five O one C three nonprofit organization
and we've been doing what we do, which is basically, we have three
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three different things that we've been ableto help people with. Number one is
a confidential online support group where wehave almost four hundred people from around the
world that are talking to one anothertwenty four seven, you know, telling
their stories, asking their questions,which is monitored by a number of people
in our organization. And then wehave a referral network of mental health practitioners
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uh and hypnotherapists that we can wecan uh you know, refer these people
too if that's what they're looking for. And then we have the third thing,
which is a relatively new for us, which we call our est our
Experience or support team. These arepeople that have had a lot of experience
uh in working with people like thisand and basically talking to them and finding
(14:30):
out what it is that they're reallylooking for. How we can possibly help
them or just tall to them.Well, good, and I want to
I want to examine that definitely further, but we got to take our first
break. This time's already flying by, so folks, stay with us.
I've got les Fels from Opus.U join us after this break, right
after these messages, and we areback with my guests night Lesville as less.
(14:52):
I got to bring something up rightup front, Opus, the your
organization there the thing that I Ilike most about that is used the word
paranormal so often, at least folkson my side of the fence. Paranormal
means strictly spirits, ghosts, butparanormal is anything outside the normal science.
And I'm kind of glad to seethat. In the title. You've explained
(15:15):
a little bit about OPUS, butyou're also involved with the Abduction Response Team
and the Abduction Experience or Research Committee. What are those and how do they
share operate with Opus? Well,what happened back in it was probably two
thousand and seven. Moffon typically wasa nuts and bolts type of an organization,
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and they really didn't pay much attentionto people that we're having experiences like
what we're going to be talking abouttonight and they did not have a protocol.
And so I talked to James Kerryand who was the international director at
that time, and I said,you guys are missing the boat on this
thing. I think, you know, you guys should be helping these people.
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So what happened was we made wemade an arrangement where all the calls
that were coming in to Moufon atthat time were directed to me, to
to Opus and I would be takingthose calls and working with these people and
trying to help them out. Okay. Well that that started the ball rolling
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with Moufon, and they came backto me and said, look, we'd
like to have you, uh doa study okay on these people. And
so I got together with a coupleof psychologists and we developed what we call
the Omega three study, which isa takeoff after the Omega study that Kenneth
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oh gosh, I'm blanking on hisname right now, who had done from
the University of Connecticut. And sowhat we did is we took seventy one
people that claimed that they had contactwith non human intelligences and uh, fifty
one people is a control group,and uh we we had them look at
(17:14):
nine different instruments. Uh, theseare psychological type of questionnaires. And we
came up with the fact Number one, and probably one of the most important
things is that these people did nothave a psychopathology. Okay, they weren't
crazy. Okay. The second howdid you how did you determine that this
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was through the instrumental testing. Yeah, the testing that we did, Yeah,
which was quite well known in thepsychological uh realm if you will.
The second thing that we came upwith and debunkers talk about, well,
these people are fantasy prone and they'rethey're coming up with making up stories.
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Well, they weren't fantasy prone.Uh. This was not an indicator at
all in any of the the testingthat we did. There were childhood conflicts
okay, stressors that cause these peopleto dissociate, but not in a psychopathological
way, but in a way ofhandling what was going on. And then
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after these experiences, these people hada worldview that was very different how they
processed what was around the world,you know, the effects of the world
on them. They came back withthese very positive thoughts about, Hey,
we need to be better stewards ofthe planet, We need to be better
(18:41):
to one another. We need tobe more loving. Uh so and and
and these were all very the majorityof these people came back with these very
positive type feelings. And the otherthing that we came up with, and
again through this instrumentation, that therewas a difference in the temporal lob activity
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of the experiences versus the control group. And this is something that needs further
uh you know, you know investigationuh that uh uh why is that occurring
or what is what is causing thatto be the case. And there's been
(19:25):
some studies done by Gary Nolan fromStanford University where they they found that in
the Caudate puttayment area there's a lotmore connections and people that have the psychic
abilities, uh telepathic capabilities, andit seems to run in families and it
seems like the entities, these nonhuman intelligences like to follow these people for
(19:49):
whatever reason. So it was reallyinteresting. So getting back to your original
question, what I what I didwas start set up to a arc in
order to I brought in a wholebunch of really good people to come up
with this idea of how we weregoing to do this study. And then
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uh, part of that outshoot ofthat was the Art the Abduction Response Team,
where if we did have some someonethat was really involved with these entities,
that we could go out there andwork with them. Subsequent This was
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the precursor to move On's eventual settingthis whole thing up for themselves. And
it's called art the Abduction or excuseme, then experience or resource team.
And I'm I'm I'm actually on thatas a research consultant. Well, you
had mentioned you brought in some sometop notch folks. Who were they?
(20:56):
Who were they? And is thisstudy the study that we're done, are
they public? Yes, yes,the Omega the Omega three study, and
and you can see u names ofpeople on that is on our website if
you go to Opus network dot orgin the article and section uh that the
(21:18):
full report is there. It's atwenty eight page report with a lot of
boring statistics. But yeah, ifyou're into statistics, that we got them.
But yeah, yeah, it's it'sit's really it's it's it's fascinating.
A matter of fact, we're ina process of doing the Omega four study
and we have the phase one ofthat done, and that's also on our
(21:41):
site where we went out to uhtherapists and ask them to explain the types
of things that they're seeing and thetypes of modalities that they're utilizing to work
with these people. And one ofthe things that we found out, which
I think you'll find interesting, isthe fact that most people that are coming
(22:04):
to these therapists are dealing with grays. Okay, the second thing that they're
dealing with our orbs that this orbsituation comes up a lot. And the
third thing was interdimensionals, and thefourth thing was poulter Geist activity. And
and so there's a real connection toall of this. It's all connected in
(22:27):
some way, shape or form.And one of the things that has occurred
with Opus over the years is thefact that, as you mentioned earlier,
that you know, paranormal is partof our title, and and so we
talk about Kundalini awakening, we talkabout poulter Geist activity, we talk about
(22:48):
demons, angels, you know,all that kind of stuff. But it
seems like most of the people thatare contacting us, for whatever reason,
are are talking about contact with thesenon human intelligences, which could be the
grays, it could be interdimensionals,it could be time travelers, it could
be our military, which is adistinct possibility. There's a lot of possibilities.
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Now, I'm going to back upjust a little bit here. I've
spent four decades as a cop.I've talked to a lot of people,
interviewed a lot of folks, andthe one thing that I have found is
that there are a lot of folksout there that we'll just make stuff up.
Oh sure, for for different reasons. Lie because they want their name
in the paper, Lie because they'rehaving some sort of mental health issues.
(23:36):
How do you vet How did youvet this original group other than saying it
happened to me. I know youtested them, but was there was there
were there interviews one on one?How did you vet these folks to ye
find their stories? Yeah? Thebottom line and all this is that there
are ways to tell in these instrumentationthat we used, which again is noted
(24:00):
in in the study. Uh,that would bring that up. You could
tell right away utilizing these instruments thatthis particular person, yes, there's there's
something not right. We need toyou know, either exclude them. But
the majority of the people, majorityof the people, as as I said
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earlier, that they did not havea psychopathology. Uh, they weren't fantasy
prone. Okay, so we rightaway that that takes a lot of those
questions off the table. And thesewere these were psycho psychoanalysts, psychologists that
were oh yeah, absolutely, ohyeah, absolutely absolutely yeah. I'm not
(24:45):
a psychologist, you know, butI was. I was a guy that
kind of, you know, gotthese guys together and said, okay,
let's let's do this. This iswhat we want to try to accomplish.
And so I was managing the wholeprocess. Uh, because that's that's one
thing that I run into a lot, is im prove it. Well,
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we know what people have experienced.I know what I've experienced, but proving
it's a whole different ballgames. Sothat's why these questions have to come out
and we have to talk about howwe vet folks because then, like I
said, I've people lie to thepolice all the time. Oh sure,
I kind of I kind of usedthat. Okay, So so you spend
most of your time, move on, You really don't investigate UFOs or UAPs.
(25:30):
Your focus is are the experiencers asyou say? Correct, Yes,
that's absolutely correct. Yeah, wewe do know investigation. If somebody wants
to investigate what we do is wedo ask them to go to move On.
You know, if they have acase that they feel that they would
like to have somebody on the ground, you know, come out and visit
them and do that kind of thing, then we'll we'll recommend that they go
(25:53):
to move On. We have agood relationship with them as a matter of
fact. You know, we havea list of of mental health practitioners and
the hypno therapists and we share thatinformation with move On and they share their
list with us, and which whichis good because this is the way it
should it be. You know,there's so many organizations out there that they
(26:17):
don't want to talk to anybody.They want to keep everything all wrapped up
close to themselves, and that's ridiculous. You know, we're trying to help
people, and that's the that's theimportant thing. How often and I I've
interviewed a number of folks that areclaimed to be abduct these experiences of your
(26:40):
world, and some of their storiesare off the charts, I mean off
the charts. And I'm going toask you some questions to just find how
much about how much of this isactual truth? But how often do you
find somebody is giving you a storyand they are suffering from mental delusion,
mental health issues, or they're justlying. There sentage between that and folks
(27:00):
that are coming to you and givingyou what you feel as a real story.
There there is a small minority thatonce you start talking to them,
you can't get a word in edgeways. You can ask them a question,
and it's almost they ignore it,and they just keep going on and on
and on, and you know,and so right away you get the sense
(27:22):
that there's something else going on here. And that's when you say, well,
look, I don't know if Ican help you. You know,
have you gone to see your friendlylocal psychologist or psychiatrists? Got one that's
coming to mind right now. Helikes the color blue. That's all I
can say. At anyway, wegotta take our next break. WI forty
further than that, we gotta takeour next break. But we've got a
(27:45):
ton more questions, folks to staywith us with Les Vals, we're talking
about alien experiencers. So stay withus. We'll be right back after these
messages and we are back with myguests. Les Vals. Fascinating story and
I want to start off this thisnext session. You know, I've talked
about some of the problems that I'vepersonally had with folks that are on the
(28:08):
on the ghost side of it,if you will, that are making things
up or exaggeratingthing right, even evenlying, doing fraudulent things. I'm sure
you had that experience too. Howdo we police that? In your in
your opinion, how can we policethat? Because that hurts all of us.
Yeah, I think first of all, when when these people come to
(28:29):
us, you know, we askedthem to tell us a little bit about
their their experience, and a lotof them, almost, you know,
almost without exception, start off bysaying you might think this is crazy and
uh, and they go on fromthere, and they're they're very concerned about
the fact that they have not beenable to talk to people that you know,
(28:55):
family members are not open to thisconversation with them, that they haven't
been able to talk to fellow coworkers or clergy or things like that,
and they're very stressed. They're extremelystressed. And right away you get the
sense that these people are very sincere, that they're not they're not trying to
(29:18):
blow smoke up your tailpipe, soto speak. And but then there's others
that you know that come in andoh my god, you know you're not
gonna believe, you know, andthen they go on and on, and
then they embellish things too, andthen you go back and ask them questions,
and then it's a different story,you know, and and you get
I like, I like the one. I like the ones that say,
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you know, I really don't wantto tell anybody about this because I don't
want them to anybody to think I'mcrazy, but they'll get on a show,
So just mine and tell the world. So you know, it makes
sense, But how do we howdo we police that? How? Because
that does harm the field. Whenyou get folks that say, for whatever
reason, crazy things, you havea thought on how we police well.
I think for in our particular situationis when people do come to us,
(30:07):
you know, they're coming to usbecause they're looking for assistance, they're looking
for help, they're reaching out becausethey're they're they're they're they're stressed and things
of that nature. So nine timesout of ten they want to go be
put into the support group or theywant somebody from the est to contact them
and talk to them. So rightaway you have two levels of of of
(30:32):
filtration, so to speak. Theminute they go into the support group and
they start talking to the group okayand either telling their story or asking their
questions. It becomes quite evident aftera while, based on the way they
write right up their their their questionsor tell their stories that either you know,
(30:52):
they're being sincere or there's something elsegoing on. And the same thing
goes with the est group, wherethese people get an opportunity to talk to
these people and they they they've they'vehad conversations with many, many people and
so they understand that, uh yeah, either there's something off here or they're
(31:14):
fine, and you know they're they'rethey're stressed because of the experience that they've
had. So we we look atit in a different way. We are
our main focus is to try tohelp people. And I've only had to
tell probably a handful of people overthe years after monitoring the site, and
we have a couple of people thatmonitor the support group that you know,
(31:37):
you probably should if you haven't already, uh you know, visit your your
local psychologist or psychiatrist and and havea session with them before you come back,
and and that usually takes care ofit. So it's it's once you
start working with these people, youget a feel for the ones that you
(32:00):
know, again not being truthful orthey're there. I think we need to
call them out. I think weneed to call them out. Yeah,
but yeah, yeah, absolutely,absolutely and so and we do it in
a nice way. We do itin a nice way by saying, hey,
look, maybe you don't need tobe mean spirit unless they're really trying
to pull the wool over your ice. Now, let's let's let's move on
(32:20):
another subject here, because I wantto know why why are we being contacted.
We've talked a little bit about thecharacteristics, psychological, physiological aspects of
it, but why is it happening? Well, why do you think it's
happening? Well, it's nothing new. This this has been going on since
(32:42):
uh Man has been you know,on this earth. And perhaps the fact
is that the these uh uh entitieshave created mankind to a certain degree.
I mean there's many periods of thegods remember exactly that that you know,
they've they've messed with our genes andpopulated us to the extent of where we
are right now. And I mentionedGary Nolan before. He had a very
(33:07):
interesting presentation that he did where hetalked about the fact that, well,
you know, geologists say that ourEarth is four point five billion years old
and that our genome changes about everysix hundred thousand years. Well, to
have man be where he is rightnow, the planet would actually have to
(33:30):
be nine billion years old. Soif that's not the case, then somebody
messed with our genes way back whento get us to where we are right
now. I mean, these aresome of the fascinating things that are going
on, and I think what they'redoing is that they're they're following their experiment.
This is this is something that's goingon. I talk about the fact
(33:52):
that this is like a school forthese entities, and that we're not at
the top of the food this isthis is just another level of reality that
we we're just a laboratory for them. That's what That's what I'm hearing.
We're basically a laboratory for them prettymuch pretty much. And and again we're
just not at the top of thefood chain. There's a whole another level
(34:15):
of reality that we do we don't, We do not fully understand. Maybe
some people understand it a lot betterthan others, but most of us don't.
True and what that other reality couldbe the what well, the other
reality is you know, whether it'sinterdimensionals, is it is it in time
travelers? Uh? Is it extraterrestrialin nature? Is it our military that's
(34:39):
messing with us? Which is alsoa distinct possibility that that's happened in the
past. Let's talk about a topicthat you're all you're also familiar with,
hybridization. Yes, explain what thatis and explain once again why why is
it happening? Well, let's startoff with the y I guess uh.
(35:01):
First of all, well, hybridization. First of maybe a back up a
little bit further. It is thefact that you know, people are are
are are being abducted. Uh.In this case, I'll use the word
abduction because most of the time whenthis occurs, people definitely don't want this
to happen. Where they're put ona table. Uh. In the case
(35:23):
of men, semen is extracted.In the case of women, eggs are
extracted, and then it's combined withthese uh uh entities uh you know DNA
if you will, And then andthen these these uh entities that come out
(35:44):
of this uh uh in most caseslook pretty strange. But supposedly, according
to uh uh David Jacobs that they'vethey've perfected this hybridization process to a point
where you can't tell them from youand me. You could be walking down
(36:05):
the street and it's actually a hybrid. And so so we have we have
them here with us in our society, is what you're saying. Yes,
yes, according to many people thatare claiming that to be the case.
And there's a fascinating book I don'tknow if you're familiar with it, called
Rachel's Eyes by Helen Latrelle and shewas regressed by one of our board members,
(36:30):
June Steiner, and it's a fascinatingbook. It tells the story about
Helen's daughter going to school college witha hybrid and she was definitely very strange
looking, and she was also broughtfood to eat by the military. And
(36:55):
without going into more detail that book, I tell you, if you haven't
read it yet, you ought toget it. It's called Rachel's Eyes and
it tells the story and it tellsabout the crash retrieval and of the military
that is organized, very well organized, and they do this and they find
(37:17):
entities all the time and they tryto integrate them, and this was one
of those cases. And this cameout with the grush you know at the
congressional hearings that that you know wehave crashed UFOs, we have alien bodies.
This, you know, we're aproblem here. Here's my problem with
(37:38):
that though, once again going backto the cop world, and look,
I hunt ghosts, I investigate ghosts, so I get there's more out there
than we know. But the questionI always get asked is where's the proof?
And frankly, in our field,we've we've got a lot of work
to do to enhance our equipment,to to get better at what we do.
(38:01):
But I'm hearing about hybrids among us, I'm hearing about the crash sites.
And one thing about being a copis if more than one person knows
about it, it's not a secretanymore. Now we do have the whistleblowers
coming out talking about it, butthere's still yet to have physical evidence of
(38:23):
it, Unlike my side, wherethere's really not a lot of physical evidence
with what I do. There isallegedly with these aliens. Why haven't we
seen it? Why hasn't somebody smuggledsomething out? I mean there, yeah,
Well, you know, mitchi Okakotalks about the fact that Hey,
look, next time you get abducted, steal the ashtray you know, off
(38:45):
the ship, you know, orsomething like that. But the bottom line,
there is proof, there is evidence. And well have you heard of
doctor Roger Lear that has extracted implantsfrom people seventeen different people and these these
let me, let me read youwhat these these implants were. Okay,
(39:06):
okay, these objects. No inflammatoryrejection reaction by the body to these foreign
bodies. Okay, which that's veryunusual. You get a splinter in your
finger and right away it hurts,okay, and it eventually pushes it out.
Yep I. No visible portal ofentry. Collections are specialized nerve endings
surrounding the object and outer coating ofceramic biological material, a metallic phase where
(39:30):
inorganic metal becomes biological tissue. Theemission of radio waves, which are deep
space frequencies in the FM band.Okay, wait a minute, now,
so where is that? Who's monitoringthat? Electromagnetic fields and excess of ten
milligous composition of New York iron sixtysix rare earth metals such as you two
(39:51):
thirty six, a single isotope ofuranium existing by itself, as well as
elements such as uridium, which isvery rare and hard to find in there
crust. Non terrestrial This is interesting, non terrestrial isotopic ratios, indicating that
the evolved elements did not come fromEarth. The existence of nanotubes and nanostrands
(40:12):
and nano fibers. Uh, andthey he had a patient that had an
implant that went on, you know, like forty six years ago, and
we didn't have that technology. Wedo have nano carbon tubes right now,
metallic caverns that are no larger thana diameter of one atom, resistance to
ordinary cutting techniques such as metallic sawingor severing with cutting instruments. One of
(40:37):
the specimens had to be cut witha laser. I mean, that's proof,
that's pro it is. But butwell, when we get back,
I want to ask you, becauseI have an open mind. This this
is not I'm not being argumented.Yeah, but I want to know where
this stuff is and we're going totalk about that when we come back after
this break. So stay with thosefolks with my guests, less from us,
(40:59):
and we're back with our last session. Less. This has gone really
really quickly, just a fascinating discussion. I do want to remind everybody if
you want to learn a little bitmore about my organization at Florida Buer of
paranorl Investigation, check us out atParanormal leftbi dot com or on Facebook with
Florida Buer of Paranyl Investigation, andalso Indian Riverhauntings dot com. Check out
(41:19):
some of our videos at Indian onYouTube at Indian River Hauntings two three four
one, and also get a holdof me at ghost Sky at Paranormal stakeout
dot org. Send us a question, thoughts and comments and we'll bring them
up at the beginning of this show. I also want to remind everybody there's
some great programming on the excellent broadcastnetwork. Go to x ZBN dot net
(41:40):
and check out all the great showsthere. I think you'll find some fascinating
stuff, but less How can folkslearn more about you and get a hold
of you, absolutely well, theeasiest place to go is right down there
in the bottom of my picture hereopus neetwork dot org. If you go
there, you'll get a full overviewof what we're all about, articles,
(42:02):
documents that we have on our site, recommended readings, and an interview series
where actually I interview people as well, and I've had, you know,
a lot of good interviews there.One of the most recent ones was with
an XCI a gentlemarned by the nameof John Ramirez, and he told me
some pretty interesting facts about there's goingto be even bigger revelations coming down to
(42:24):
Pike here very soon with regard tothe extraterrestrial phenomena. And see that's once
again that's the biggest difference between yourside and my side of the of the
paranormal world. We're still we're stillworking to get the evidence out there,
something that we could share with thescientific world. I'm hearing from you that
(42:45):
it's there. What's keeping it fromcoming out? If, for example,
the doctor you just mentioned who tookout all the implants, where are those
implants? All the ones that wellthere are they? Well, if you
if you go to my book TheUnknown Other and the Existential Proposition of Alien
Contact, these things were examined byvery high Uh well, not high is
(43:08):
not the right word I should use. These are labs that have great credentials.
Okay, this is where the informationcame from after they were analyzed,
and so all all of that information, there's a trail of of I forget
(43:29):
the word to hear that they usea trail of anyway. Bottom line is
that somebody has it. They knowwhere it's a chain of custody of the
even if we have the chain ofme. But if we have the chain
of custody, that means we canfollow it. Yes, So where is
it? Well? Where is it? Well it believe me, I don't
(43:52):
have it. I believe me.I don't believe you don't. But what
I'm getting at is, if there'sthis stuff was taken out and this is
one thing that I really harp onon my side, offenses collection and preservation
of evidence and keeping that appropriate chaincustody so it can be shown that nothing's
been done on toward toward it,with it, with with the evidence.
(44:14):
So once again, and I'm nota rhetorical question, Okay, so where
is it? And why can't wesee it? Is this something that's going
to come out with some of theselater h I think I think, I
think, yeah, I think that'sprobably just going to be a very small
subset of what's going to be comingout, basically, because that will shut
everything down if somebody comes out andsays, look at these these implants taken
(44:37):
out of these folks, and here'sthe mit allergic breakdown of it. And
it's not from this earth that's goingto solve a lot of problems. Well,
but it's got a kind Yeah.And and he wrote a book Alien
and the Scalpel, which I believethat he talks about. Uh, perhaps
(45:00):
where that is he's passed away,unfortunately, but I don't think. I
don't think he's the one that Andthat's a good question, that's a very
good question. I don't know.I brought this up simply to tell people
that this is what happened. Thisis what happened when they took these things
out. These were the results verifiedby these labs. Okay, Now where
(45:21):
those things are right now, Idon't know. And the problem is you
cannot take that to a court oflaw and say this is proof. You
can't because you can't produce it.Now. Hopefully we'll get to the point
where where they will produce it,but right now you can't. And that's
and that once again hurt It hurtsmy side offense when I can't produce evidence.
So it's got it's got to hurtyour side. Also, here's another
(45:44):
question for going no, no,no, God, I was just gonna
ask. This is something I gotand I do not the fest to be
an expert in the in the UFOfield, I'm not. I'm learning quite
a bit from folks like you.But I've heard that there is over eighty
four species of aliens that have visitedthis earth or contacted this earth. And
(46:07):
is there is there any truth ofthat? Well, I've heard numbers from
those kind of numbers, even highernumbers. Okay, I have no proof
whatsoever that that's the case. Themain ones that we deal with, okay,
are the grays, are the Mantitypes, are the Reptilian types?
(46:29):
Are the Nordic types? Those are? Those are like the four main categories.
Now if you talk to Linda Molton, howe uh, there's three types
that have been mostly involved, okaywith our government. Okay, Uh,
(46:50):
you know high missed this. RetiredIsraeli General Security Group in Israel brought out
a book and he talked about thefact that yes, we've been in cahoots
with these entities for quite some time, uh, and that they don't want
to show themselves in any way,shape or form at this point because we're
(47:14):
not ready that we have bases onthe Moon, we have bases on Mars,
We've been traveling around the universe.Why bring it up quite some time?
Why this is another another question?Why would they if they can't prove
it, if they don't want,if whoever they're dealing with doesn't want to
us to know about them, becausewe're not ready, why even bring it
(47:36):
out? Well, I think wellthey didn't. They didn't bring it up.
This general brought it up because heknews. Yeah, and and and
I think you know, all thesepeople that are are testifying now, okays
are are very sincere, very wellrespected people, and they're they're having a
(47:57):
hard time because the Pentagon doesn't wantthis stuff to come out. There's there's
two major forces going on. Youhave people that want this story to come
out, and you have people thatdon't want the story to come out,
okay, And why is that?Because the people that have the power,
people that have the power want toremain in power. And they also from
a security standpoint, a national securitystandpoint, if they start revealing that we
(48:23):
do have technology that we've reverse engineered, we don't want our friendly enemies to
understand that the Russians are the Chineseor the Koreans or the Iranians to to
to have that that kind of knowledge. So it's a very interesting time that
we're living in right now. AndI agree, But wouldn't you also agree
(48:44):
that if we're finding this stuff,if we're hiding it and we're reverse engineering
it, and we don't want ourour enemies to know, you've got to
believe that they're also finding stuff andthey're also working on reverse engineers. Oh
absolutely, Oh absolutely they are.And it's a it's an arms race again
like the Cold War, you know, but it's this is this is happening
(49:05):
now because both sides have evidence,you know, crashed UFOs supposedly alien bodies,
So hey, it's gonna would wouldwould you agree though? That the
time has coming? I mean,I'm I work out very hard on my
side of the field, but myside of the field does not have the
(49:27):
same security concerns that your side ofthe field does. Right, isn't it
about time if this, if thisstuff is real, that it be brought
out so we can all see it, because it's not helping these bits and
pieces coming out, but we're notwe're not seeing the proof. And I'm
open mind, I I do notknow what's out there. There are things
(49:50):
that we don't understand. But ifthey've got some hard evidence, time to
share it. Oh, I agree, I totally agree. I mean you
would you wouldn't get an argument fromany of the people in this field at
all. We want this, Werelish this. Uh that's going on.
I mean we have multiple senators,congressmen, you know, a very bipartisan
(50:13):
effort to get this stuff out.And so I don't know if you you
saw that congressional hearing, but yeah, I mean that was amazing. I
mean you had you had people inthat in that room, Democrats on one
side and Republicans on the other,that basically hated themselves most of the time,
(50:35):
but they came together and they agree. And I have friends that disagree
with the two pilots that testified whatthey saw. But I'm I am not
going to dispute two gentlemen that areserving our country proudly, you know,
defending it. So I've got toput some stock in what they're saying.
But at the same time, butat the same time, we got to
(50:55):
start putting, you know, ourmoney where our mouth is. And if
there's evidence out there, if there'sso many people talking about it, there's
got to be a way to producethat evidence, I mean, and it's
being got, it's being worked on. I'm I'm part of another organization that's
just getting off the ground and theyhave been working with the Congress to start
(51:21):
supplying more information and more evidence.So's it's the time has come this year.
I think before the end of theyear, you're you're gonna be talking
about a whole another ball game.What I'm fascinated in the last couple of
minutes of the show here is there'sso much talk now and you've mentioned it
earlier about the psychological, the psychokineticangle to this connecting UFOs with ghosts.
(51:50):
I personally haven't seen it yet.I'm okay, I've not. I've not
experienced that kind of connection, butthere are many people that I have,
and I'm waiting to see if there'sgoing to be a connection made between the
UFO community the cryptic community who manypeople believe that Bigfoot is a dimensional capture
and is that what we've got goingon here. I was on a show
(52:12):
last night where folks were talking aboutactual wormholes being maybe a part of this
whole thing. Right way beyond mypay grade. I'm just an old cop.
But that's you know, uh yeah, lots of things are happening.
Oh, I mean this is physicsthat we don't fully understand. And and
and so you know when people say, well, we can't go faster than
(52:32):
the speed of light, but maybeyou don't have to go faster than the
speed of light if you can getinto a wormhole or or or or a
portal. And there's talk about portals. I mean a matter of fact,
there was a show Kathleen Corey didon the Terror in the Sky where they
actually filmed a portal opening up andand and a lot of times these orbs.
(52:59):
I've seen picture of orbs where youcould actually see gray aliens in the
orb. You could actually see theirfaces. Yeah, you could see them,
one being close to the to thefront of the orb, some in
the background looking in different directions.You're talking to a guy that doesn't put
much stock in orbs. I'm sorry, I've never had just from my side
(53:19):
of the fence. But here's thehere's the here's the bottom line. We've
got about thirty thirty five seconds.Okay, the time has come where if
this is going to be taken seriously. The evidence has got to come out
because until that time it's it's goingto be fringe sides. Any party words
in the last fifteen twenty seconds.Well, I think the thing is that
you need to be open minded,uh, certainly. And if you do
(53:43):
have issues with contact with non humanintelligences and you're looking for assistance, uh,
please come to our site Opus networkdot org. Please go to our
YouTube channel as well, hit thesubscribe button, the like button and you'll
see interviews there that I've done.Look forward to it and folks, thank
(54:07):
you for watching. Thank you Lesfor being on the show. It was
very fascinating. And everybody out thereplease take care, love your family,
take care of yourselves, and we'llsee you on the other side. Have
a good night.
Welcome to the Paranormal Steakhout Radio TVshow with Larry Lawson. As a former
career law enforcement officer and law enforcementeducator, Larry focuses on the use of
tried and true law enforcement investigative techniquesin conducting paranormal investigations. Despite his experience
and training, Larry also and keepsan open mind to discussions on topics that
(01:00):
deal with evidence that are not quiteas physical in nature. Paranormal Stakeout guests
are professionals in the field of theparanormal and parapsychology, conducting the investigations and
research needed to further the cause ofparanormal study. Larry advocates an agenda of
standardization of structure and training in thefield of paranormal investigation and research for the
(01:23):
purpose of one day being able toproduce the evidence needed to convince a jury
of the existence of the paranormal.Whether it is ghosts, UFOs, unsolved
mysteries, hauntings, or cryptids,no topic is beyond the investigative reach of
Larry Lawson and the Paranormal Stakecot radioTV show team. Now Here is the
(01:44):
host of the Paranormal Stakeout Radio TVshow Larry Lawson. Hello everyone, and
(02:07):
welcome back to Paranormal Steak Out.I'm your host, Larry Lawson, coming
to you from the headquarters of theFlorida Vira Paranormal Investigation and Indian River Hauntings
in beautiful Vero Beach, Florida.I want to start off the show is
most of you out there now.We had a visitor that came through this
form of a hurricane this last week. It missed our area completely, but
(02:28):
I just want to send some thoughtsto all those folks up in what we
call the Big Bend to Florida,and that's where the Bend turns turns to
the west and Crescent Beach and alla couple of the other little towns up
there. The devastation was terrible andI just want to send my thoughts and
prayers to my Phillow Floridians and praythat they will get through this. And
(02:51):
also the folks in Georgia, SouthCarolina, North Carolina that also I've been
suffering from this storm, So keepthem in your thoughts and prayers. A
little bit about us if you're interestedin hearing about my team, the Florida
Beer of Paranormal investigation. You cango and check us out at Paranormal fbi
dot com. That's our website.You can also catch us on Facebook.
Indian River Hauntings is the subsidiary ofthat organization and we do historical events and
(03:16):
you can get a hold of usthere at Indian Riverhaunings dot com or on
Facebook Indian River Haunting. So youcan also check out what we do on
facebo so o YouTube at Indie Riverhauntingstwo three four one. You want to
get a hold of me on thisshow, just send me an email at
ghosts Guy at Paranormal Steakeout dot org. It's Paranormal ghost Guy at Paranormal steakeout
(03:39):
dot org. And you can alsocheck out my website at Paranormal steakeout dot
org. So thanks for being heretonight, got a really interesting show.
A gentleman that I've been very anxiousto get get on the show and introduce
him to all of you. Hisname is Lester V. Les Less,
a graduate of the University of Vermontwith bachelor degree in Business administration. Starting
(04:03):
in September of nineteen seventy, hebegan to serve our country and the US
Army as a field artillery officer.After that, he later became the vice
president of Lescombe Engineering, a SiliconValley based manufacturers representative company. He later
in the early nineteen nineties joint muffon the mutual UFO Network. In nineteen
(04:24):
ninety one, has held several positionsincluding field investigator, Training coordinator for Field
Investigators, Assistant state director in NorthernCalifornia, Chairman of the Abduction Experience or
Research Committee, and team leader ofthe Abduction Response Team. Also during that
time he became a facilitator for anabduction support group in San Jose, California,
(04:45):
and in nineteen ninety four co foundedOPUS, the Organization for Paranormal Understanding
and Support. So with that,I'd like to welcome to Paranormal Stakeout mister
Lesto laz Less. Welcome to theshow. Hey, Larry, thank you
so much for having me. Reallyapreciate it. Well, I've been anxious
to talk with you now. I'vehad a chance to see some of your
stuff and know a bit about you, but many of my listeners may not,
(05:10):
so tell us a little bit aboutyourselves. I went over a little
bit of your bio, but tellus how how you got into the field.
Ah, yes, Well, it'sinteresting how these things happened to bring
you down a certain path. Itactually started for me when I was eleven
years old, and I was livingin Connecticut at the time, and I
(05:32):
was coming into the house after feedingmy dog. This was late in October,
and it was already, you know, pretty dark at that point,
and I noticed off to my right, hovering over this tree line, not
too far from me, this objectwhich was emanating a light, sort of
(05:53):
a subdued white light, and itwasn't no sound. There was no sound,
and it was slowly moving from whereit was to an area that was
a couple of streets away in asoutherly direction, and it scared the hell
(06:14):
out of me because I didn't knowwhat it was. And I ran into
the house and tried to get myfather to come out, and by the
time he did come out, itwas gone, of course, and he
said, oh, it's probably justa beacon of light reflecting off a cloud
or something. Well, I didn'tbelieve it, and I went to the
library soon thereafter, and you know, picked up a couple of books on
(06:34):
UFOs. And back in the latefifties, Georgia Dampski was the guy that
was talking about UFOs and had someincredible books that he put out in pictures
of these UFOs that he had taken, and so I was really got into
it. Well, you know,became an adolescent, and then UFOs kind
(06:55):
of left my train of thought,and you know, girls came a little
bit more interesting for me, andI kind of forgot about the whole thing.
And I went off to college,became a member of the ROTC,
and subsequently went into the service.And when I graduated from college, I
(07:16):
got married, and being an officer, I was able to bring my wife
with me. Well, you know, things were just going along, and
in nineteen eighty five, I hadthe opportunity to buy into a company in
northern California called Luscom Engineering, andso I did. I moved out there
(07:38):
and I picked up the San JoseMercury News one day and a gentleman by
the name of Stanton Freeman, anuclear physicist, was coming to San Jose
City College to talk about UFOs andthe government cover up. Well, oh
my god, it was like somebodythrew a switch and I said, I
gotta go see this guy. SoI went there. I expected to see
a handful of people, but theauditorium was at Stanton did as one of
(08:03):
his inevitable great presentations, and I'mon my way out. There was a
table set up by an organization calledMOOF on the Mutual UFO Network, which
was established in nineteen sixty nine bya couple of engineers in Sekine, Texas,
and they produced a monthly journal,and so I decided to get that
(08:26):
journal and read about cases. Well, after a while that wasn't enough for
me, and they also had afield investigator training course, and so I
decided, Okay, I'm going tostudy up and see if I could pass
this thing. And I did.And the cases that I got involved with
almost without exception, not only werepeople telling me about their sightings, but
(08:48):
then they also told me that theyhad contact with non human intelligences, which
the first case, you know,I was kind of a nuts and bolts
kind of a guy. But afterthe second or third person telling me that
they had contact with non human intelligence, I said, something's going on and
it's pretty significant. And so that'sthe wheels started turning. And these people
(09:15):
would ask me do I know ofother people having similar experiences? And the
next thing I'm doing I'm facilitating asupport group in my office and listening or
contacts. Yeah, yeah, youcan. You know, the terminology,
you know, back in those dayswas abductees, but subsequently it's become contact
(09:35):
these now it's experiencers. Okay,neutral terminology, you know, it could
it could go either way. Youknow, if it's an abductee it has
a negative connotation, or a contacthe has a more positive and the experiencer
is neutral. So anyway, thesepeople wanted to know if they could get
together with other people, and Isaid sure, so we did, and
(09:58):
I started to hear incredible stories.And one day I got a I got
a call from the head of Moufonand he said, this reporter down in
Monterey would like to speak with youabout what you're doing. And I said,
well, okay, sure, youknow, you can give my contact
information and we we had a niceconversation. He wrote up this great article
(10:22):
and he had my my my pictureon the front of this close weekly paper.
And uh. Subsequently I got acall from a woman down in Carmel
and she wanted to find out whatwas going on with her brain when she
was in contact with these off earthlyentities. And I said to myself,
(10:45):
well, I have no idea howI could possibly help her. But then
she said she was in working withan emergency room doctor in Carmel, and
I had a doctor friend, doctorEugene Lipson, who was very interested in
working with other doctors that were interestedin the phenomena. So I said,
why don't we go down there andlet's let's talk to her at least,
(11:05):
you know, and then you couldmeet this other doctor. So we walked
into her house and there was apicture on the wall and she's standing on
the back of this vessel, afairly good sized vessel and obviously beautiful,
crystal clear blue waters in the Caribbeansomewhere. And I said, what's this
all about? She said, all, I was helping these treasure hunters And
(11:28):
I said, really, I said, how were you doing that? She
said, well, I was incontact with the captain of the galleon that
had gone down, and that startedthe afternoon off okay, And we subsequently
found out that because of a neardeath experience that she had had, she
became very psychic, and these capabilitiesin contacting these offer at the entities became
(11:50):
a really prominent part of her lifeand so when we left that afternoon,
it was like, how can wepossibly help people like And that's when OPUS
was hatched, the Organization for ParanormalUnderstanding and Support. We uh we we
we said, well, you know, if if this kind of thing is
going on, we need to beable to try to figure out how to
(12:11):
help people like that. So it'sit's been a it's been an incredible journey,
and we can go into what we'veactually ended up doing. But she
told the stuff about ourselves the restof the afternoon that there was no possible
way that she could she could beyou know, uh, you know,
(12:33):
have that kind of knowledge because wedidn't know her from Adam until she called
us in case I missed this.So she had the psychic ability as a
result. Yes, her contact experience, yes, but but no no contact
with alien beings at this point.No, she was, she was in
(12:56):
contact with them. Uh, butit was telepathic type of I guess that's
what I'm getting at. So you'retelling me there's a bridge between folks that
have that gift, that ability andnot only contacting maybe folks such as I
investigate spirits, but you're also sayingaliens. Yes, absolutely, all right,
(13:16):
well, we're gonna I definitely wantto examine that a little bit further
too, because that is a bigissue today. So go on. So
Opus was formed, and you've beenworking that ever since. Right in the
nineteen ninety four, we officially becamea five O one C three nonprofit organization
and we've been doing what we do, which is basically, we have three
(13:39):
three different things that we've been ableto help people with. Number one is
a confidential online support group where wehave almost four hundred people from around the
world that are talking to one anothertwenty four seven, you know, telling
their stories, asking their questions,which is monitored by a number of people
in our organization. And then wehave a referral network of mental health practitioners
(14:05):
uh and hypnotherapists that we can wecan uh you know, refer these people
too if that's what they're looking for. And then we have the third thing,
which is a relatively new for us, which we call our est our
Experience or support team. These arepeople that have had a lot of experience
uh in working with people like thisand and basically talking to them and finding
(14:30):
out what it is that they're reallylooking for. How we can possibly help
them or just tall to them.Well, good, and I want to
I want to examine that definitely further, but we got to take our first
break. This time's already flying by, so folks, stay with us.
I've got les Fels from Opus.U join us after this break, right
after these messages, and we areback with my guests night Lesville as less.
(14:52):
I got to bring something up rightup front, Opus, the your
organization there the thing that I Ilike most about that is used the word
paranormal so often, at least folkson my side of the fence. Paranormal
means strictly spirits, ghosts, butparanormal is anything outside the normal science.
And I'm kind of glad to seethat. In the title. You've explained
(15:15):
a little bit about OPUS, butyou're also involved with the Abduction Response Team
and the Abduction Experience or Research Committee. What are those and how do they
share operate with Opus? Well,what happened back in it was probably two
thousand and seven. Moffon typically wasa nuts and bolts type of an organization,
(15:37):
and they really didn't pay much attentionto people that we're having experiences like
what we're going to be talking abouttonight and they did not have a protocol.
And so I talked to James Kerryand who was the international director at
that time, and I said,you guys are missing the boat on this
thing. I think, you know, you guys should be helping these people.
(16:00):
So what happened was we made wemade an arrangement where all the calls
that were coming in to Moufon atthat time were directed to me, to
to Opus and I would be takingthose calls and working with these people and
trying to help them out. Okay. Well that that started the ball rolling
(16:23):
with Moufon, and they came backto me and said, look, we'd
like to have you, uh doa study okay on these people. And
so I got together with a coupleof psychologists and we developed what we call
the Omega three study, which isa takeoff after the Omega study that Kenneth
(16:49):
oh gosh, I'm blanking on hisname right now, who had done from
the University of Connecticut. And sowhat we did is we took seventy one
people that claimed that they had contactwith non human intelligences and uh, fifty
one people is a control group,and uh we we had them look at
(17:14):
nine different instruments. Uh, theseare psychological type of questionnaires. And we
came up with the fact Number one, and probably one of the most important
things is that these people did nothave a psychopathology. Okay, they weren't
crazy. Okay. The second howdid you how did you determine that this
(17:36):
was through the instrumental testing. Yeah, the testing that we did, Yeah,
which was quite well known in thepsychological uh realm if you will.
The second thing that we came upwith and debunkers talk about, well,
these people are fantasy prone and they'rethey're coming up with making up stories.
(17:57):
Well, they weren't fantasy prone.Uh. This was not an indicator at
all in any of the the testingthat we did. There were childhood conflicts
okay, stressors that cause these peopleto dissociate, but not in a psychopathological
way, but in a way ofhandling what was going on. And then
(18:18):
after these experiences, these people hada worldview that was very different how they
processed what was around the world,you know, the effects of the world
on them. They came back withthese very positive thoughts about, Hey,
we need to be better stewards ofthe planet, We need to be better
(18:41):
to one another. We need tobe more loving. Uh so and and
and these were all very the majorityof these people came back with these very
positive type feelings. And the otherthing that we came up with, and
again through this instrumentation, that therewas a difference in the temporal lob activity
(19:03):
of the experiences versus the control group. And this is something that needs further
uh you know, you know investigationuh that uh uh why is that occurring
or what is what is causing thatto be the case. And there's been
(19:25):
some studies done by Gary Nolan fromStanford University where they they found that in
the Caudate puttayment area there's a lotmore connections and people that have the psychic
abilities, uh telepathic capabilities, andit seems to run in families and it
seems like the entities, these nonhuman intelligences like to follow these people for
(19:49):
whatever reason. So it was reallyinteresting. So getting back to your original
question, what I what I didwas start set up to a arc in
order to I brought in a wholebunch of really good people to come up
with this idea of how we weregoing to do this study. And then
(20:11):
uh, part of that outshoot ofthat was the Art the Abduction Response Team,
where if we did have some someonethat was really involved with these entities,
that we could go out there andwork with them. Subsequent This was
(20:33):
the precursor to move On's eventual settingthis whole thing up for themselves. And
it's called art the Abduction or excuseme, then experience or resource team.
And I'm I'm I'm actually on thatas a research consultant. Well, you
had mentioned you brought in some sometop notch folks. Who were they?
(20:56):
Who were they? And is thisstudy the study that we're done, are
they public? Yes, yes,the Omega the Omega three study, and
and you can see u names ofpeople on that is on our website if
you go to Opus network dot orgin the article and section uh that the
(21:18):
full report is there. It's atwenty eight page report with a lot of
boring statistics. But yeah, ifyou're into statistics, that we got them.
But yeah, yeah, it's it'sit's really it's it's it's fascinating.
A matter of fact, we're ina process of doing the Omega four study
and we have the phase one ofthat done, and that's also on our
(21:41):
site where we went out to uhtherapists and ask them to explain the types
of things that they're seeing and thetypes of modalities that they're utilizing to work
with these people. And one ofthe things that we found out, which
I think you'll find interesting, isthe fact that most people that are coming
(22:04):
to these therapists are dealing with grays. Okay, the second thing that they're
dealing with our orbs that this orbsituation comes up a lot. And the
third thing was interdimensionals, and thefourth thing was poulter Geist activity. And
and so there's a real connection toall of this. It's all connected in
(22:27):
some way, shape or form.And one of the things that has occurred
with Opus over the years is thefact that, as you mentioned earlier,
that you know, paranormal is partof our title, and and so we
talk about Kundalini awakening, we talkabout poulter Geist activity, we talk about
(22:48):
demons, angels, you know,all that kind of stuff. But it
seems like most of the people thatare contacting us, for whatever reason,
are are talking about contact with thesenon human intelligences, which could be the
grays, it could be interdimensionals,it could be time travelers, it could
be our military, which is adistinct possibility. There's a lot of possibilities.
(23:12):
Now, I'm going to back upjust a little bit here. I've
spent four decades as a cop.I've talked to a lot of people,
interviewed a lot of folks, andthe one thing that I have found is
that there are a lot of folksout there that we'll just make stuff up.
Oh sure, for for different reasons. Lie because they want their name
in the paper, Lie because they'rehaving some sort of mental health issues.
(23:36):
How do you vet How did youvet this original group other than saying it
happened to me. I know youtested them, but was there was there
were there interviews one on one?How did you vet these folks to ye
find their stories? Yeah? Thebottom line and all this is that there
are ways to tell in these instrumentationthat we used, which again is noted
(24:00):
in in the study. Uh,that would bring that up. You could
tell right away utilizing these instruments thatthis particular person, yes, there's there's
something not right. We need toyou know, either exclude them. But
the majority of the people, majorityof the people, as as I said
(24:23):
earlier, that they did not havea psychopathology. Uh, they weren't fantasy
prone. Okay, so we rightaway that that takes a lot of those
questions off the table. And thesewere these were psycho psychoanalysts, psychologists that
were oh yeah, absolutely, ohyeah, absolutely absolutely yeah. I'm not
(24:45):
a psychologist, you know, butI was. I was a guy that
kind of, you know, gotthese guys together and said, okay,
let's let's do this. This iswhat we want to try to accomplish.
And so I was managing the wholeprocess. Uh, because that's that's one
thing that I run into a lot, is im prove it. Well,
(25:06):
we know what people have experienced.I know what I've experienced, but proving
it's a whole different ballgames. Sothat's why these questions have to come out
and we have to talk about howwe vet folks because then, like I
said, I've people lie to thepolice all the time. Oh sure,
I kind of I kind of usedthat. Okay, So so you spend
most of your time, move on, You really don't investigate UFOs or UAPs.
(25:30):
Your focus is are the experiencers asyou say? Correct, Yes,
that's absolutely correct. Yeah, wewe do know investigation. If somebody wants
to investigate what we do is wedo ask them to go to move On.
You know, if they have acase that they feel that they would
like to have somebody on the ground, you know, come out and visit
them and do that kind of thing, then we'll we'll recommend that they go
(25:53):
to move On. We have agood relationship with them as a matter of
fact. You know, we havea list of of mental health practitioners and
the hypno therapists and we share thatinformation with move On and they share their
list with us, and which whichis good because this is the way it
should it be. You know,there's so many organizations out there that they
(26:17):
don't want to talk to anybody.They want to keep everything all wrapped up
close to themselves, and that's ridiculous. You know, we're trying to help
people, and that's the that's theimportant thing. How often and I I've
interviewed a number of folks that areclaimed to be abduct these experiences of your
(26:40):
world, and some of their storiesare off the charts, I mean off
the charts. And I'm going toask you some questions to just find how
much about how much of this isactual truth? But how often do you
find somebody is giving you a storyand they are suffering from mental delusion,
mental health issues, or they're justlying. There sentage between that and folks
(27:00):
that are coming to you and givingyou what you feel as a real story.
There there is a small minority thatonce you start talking to them,
you can't get a word in edgeways. You can ask them a question,
and it's almost they ignore it,and they just keep going on and on
and on, and you know,and so right away you get the sense
(27:22):
that there's something else going on here. And that's when you say, well,
look, I don't know if Ican help you. You know,
have you gone to see your friendlylocal psychologist or psychiatrists? Got one that's
coming to mind right now. Helikes the color blue. That's all I
can say. At anyway, wegotta take our next break. WI forty
further than that, we gotta takeour next break. But we've got a
(27:45):
ton more questions, folks to staywith us with Les Vals, we're talking
about alien experiencers. So stay withus. We'll be right back after these
messages and we are back with myguests. Les Vals. Fascinating story and
I want to start off this thisnext session. You know, I've talked
about some of the problems that I'vepersonally had with folks that are on the
(28:08):
on the ghost side of it,if you will, that are making things
up or exaggeratingthing right, even evenlying, doing fraudulent things. I'm sure
you had that experience too. Howdo we police that? In your in
your opinion, how can we policethat? Because that hurts all of us.
Yeah, I think first of all, when when these people come to
(28:29):
us, you know, we askedthem to tell us a little bit about
their their experience, and a lotof them, almost, you know,
almost without exception, start off bysaying you might think this is crazy and
uh, and they go on fromthere, and they're they're very concerned about
the fact that they have not beenable to talk to people that you know,
(28:55):
family members are not open to thisconversation with them, that they haven't
been able to talk to fellow coworkers or clergy or things like that,
and they're very stressed. They're extremelystressed. And right away you get the
sense that these people are very sincere, that they're not they're not trying to
(29:18):
blow smoke up your tailpipe, soto speak. And but then there's others
that you know that come in andoh my god, you know you're not
gonna believe, you know, andthen they go on and on, and
then they embellish things too, andthen you go back and ask them questions,
and then it's a different story,you know, and and you get
I like, I like the one. I like the ones that say,
(29:41):
you know, I really don't wantto tell anybody about this because I don't
want them to anybody to think I'mcrazy, but they'll get on a show,
So just mine and tell the world. So you know, it makes
sense, But how do we howdo we police that? How? Because
that does harm the field. Whenyou get folks that say, for whatever
reason, crazy things, you havea thought on how we police well.
I think for in our particular situationis when people do come to us,
(30:07):
you know, they're coming to usbecause they're looking for assistance, they're looking
for help, they're reaching out becausethey're they're they're they're they're stressed and things
of that nature. So nine timesout of ten they want to go be
put into the support group or theywant somebody from the est to contact them
and talk to them. So rightaway you have two levels of of of
(30:32):
filtration, so to speak. Theminute they go into the support group and
they start talking to the group okayand either telling their story or asking their
questions. It becomes quite evident aftera while, based on the way they
write right up their their their questionsor tell their stories that either you know,
(30:52):
they're being sincere or there's something elsegoing on. And the same thing
goes with the est group, wherethese people get an opportunity to talk to
these people and they they they've they'vehad conversations with many, many people and
so they understand that, uh yeah, either there's something off here or they're
(31:14):
fine, and you know they're they'rethey're stressed because of the experience that they've
had. So we we look atit in a different way. We are
our main focus is to try tohelp people. And I've only had to
tell probably a handful of people overthe years after monitoring the site, and
we have a couple of people thatmonitor the support group that you know,
(31:37):
you probably should if you haven't already, uh you know, visit your your
local psychologist or psychiatrist and and havea session with them before you come back,
and and that usually takes care ofit. So it's it's once you
start working with these people, youget a feel for the ones that you
(32:00):
know, again not being truthful orthey're there. I think we need to
call them out. I think weneed to call them out. Yeah,
but yeah, yeah, absolutely,absolutely and so and we do it in
a nice way. We do itin a nice way by saying, hey,
look, maybe you don't need tobe mean spirit unless they're really trying
to pull the wool over your ice. Now, let's let's let's move on
(32:20):
another subject here, because I wantto know why why are we being contacted.
We've talked a little bit about thecharacteristics, psychological, physiological aspects of
it, but why is it happening? Well, why do you think it's
happening? Well, it's nothing new. This this has been going on since
(32:42):
uh Man has been you know,on this earth. And perhaps the fact
is that the these uh uh entitieshave created mankind to a certain degree.
I mean there's many periods of thegods remember exactly that that you know,
they've they've messed with our genes andpopulated us to the extent of where we
are right now. And I mentionedGary Nolan before. He had a very
(33:07):
interesting presentation that he did where hetalked about the fact that, well,
you know, geologists say that ourEarth is four point five billion years old
and that our genome changes about everysix hundred thousand years. Well, to
have man be where he is rightnow, the planet would actually have to
(33:30):
be nine billion years old. Soif that's not the case, then somebody
messed with our genes way back whento get us to where we are right
now. I mean, these aresome of the fascinating things that are going
on, and I think what they'redoing is that they're they're following their experiment.
This is this is something that's goingon. I talk about the fact
(33:52):
that this is like a school forthese entities, and that we're not at
the top of the food this isthis is just another level of reality that
we we're just a laboratory for them. That's what That's what I'm hearing.
We're basically a laboratory for them prettymuch pretty much. And and again we're
just not at the top of thefood chain. There's a whole another level
(34:15):
of reality that we do we don't, We do not fully understand. Maybe
some people understand it a lot betterthan others, but most of us don't.
True and what that other reality couldbe the what well, the other
reality is you know, whether it'sinterdimensionals, is it is it in time
travelers? Uh? Is it extraterrestrialin nature? Is it our military that's
(34:39):
messing with us? Which is alsoa distinct possibility that that's happened in the
past. Let's talk about a topicthat you're all you're also familiar with,
hybridization. Yes, explain what thatis and explain once again why why is
it happening? Well, let's startoff with the y I guess uh.
(35:01):
First of all, well, hybridization. First of maybe a back up a
little bit further. It is thefact that you know, people are are
are are being abducted. Uh.In this case, I'll use the word
abduction because most of the time whenthis occurs, people definitely don't want this
to happen. Where they're put ona table. Uh. In the case
(35:23):
of men, semen is extracted.In the case of women, eggs are
extracted, and then it's combined withthese uh uh entities uh you know DNA
if you will, And then andthen these these uh entities that come out
(35:44):
of this uh uh in most caseslook pretty strange. But supposedly, according
to uh uh David Jacobs that they'vethey've perfected this hybridization process to a point
where you can't tell them from youand me. You could be walking down
(36:05):
the street and it's actually a hybrid. And so so we have we have
them here with us in our society, is what you're saying. Yes,
yes, according to many people thatare claiming that to be the case.
And there's a fascinating book I don'tknow if you're familiar with it, called
Rachel's Eyes by Helen Latrelle and shewas regressed by one of our board members,
(36:30):
June Steiner, and it's a fascinatingbook. It tells the story about
Helen's daughter going to school college witha hybrid and she was definitely very strange
looking, and she was also broughtfood to eat by the military. And
(36:55):
without going into more detail that book, I tell you, if you haven't
read it yet, you ought toget it. It's called Rachel's Eyes and
it tells the story and it tellsabout the crash retrieval and of the military
that is organized, very well organized, and they do this and they find
(37:17):
entities all the time and they tryto integrate them, and this was one
of those cases. And this cameout with the grush you know at the
congressional hearings that that you know wehave crashed UFOs, we have alien bodies.
This, you know, we're aproblem here. Here's my problem with
(37:38):
that though, once again going backto the cop world, and look,
I hunt ghosts, I investigate ghosts, so I get there's more out there
than we know. But the questionI always get asked is where's the proof?
And frankly, in our field,we've we've got a lot of work
to do to enhance our equipment,to to get better at what we do.
(38:01):
But I'm hearing about hybrids among us, I'm hearing about the crash sites.
And one thing about being a copis if more than one person knows
about it, it's not a secretanymore. Now we do have the whistleblowers
coming out talking about it, butthere's still yet to have physical evidence of
(38:23):
it, Unlike my side, wherethere's really not a lot of physical evidence
with what I do. There isallegedly with these aliens. Why haven't we
seen it? Why hasn't somebody smuggledsomething out? I mean there, yeah,
Well, you know, mitchi Okakotalks about the fact that Hey,
look, next time you get abducted, steal the ashtray you know, off
(38:45):
the ship, you know, orsomething like that. But the bottom line,
there is proof, there is evidence. And well have you heard of
doctor Roger Lear that has extracted implantsfrom people seventeen different people and these these
let me, let me read youwhat these these implants were. Okay,
(39:06):
okay, these objects. No inflammatoryrejection reaction by the body to these foreign
bodies. Okay, which that's veryunusual. You get a splinter in your
finger and right away it hurts,okay, and it eventually pushes it out.
Yep I. No visible portal ofentry. Collections are specialized nerve endings
surrounding the object and outer coating ofceramic biological material, a metallic phase where
(39:30):
inorganic metal becomes biological tissue. Theemission of radio waves, which are deep
space frequencies in the FM band.Okay, wait a minute, now,
so where is that? Who's monitoringthat? Electromagnetic fields and excess of ten
milligous composition of New York iron sixtysix rare earth metals such as you two
(39:51):
thirty six, a single isotope ofuranium existing by itself, as well as
elements such as uridium, which isvery rare and hard to find in there
crust. Non terrestrial This is interesting, non terrestrial isotopic ratios, indicating that
the evolved elements did not come fromEarth. The existence of nanotubes and nanostrands
(40:12):
and nano fibers. Uh, andthey he had a patient that had an
implant that went on, you know, like forty six years ago, and
we didn't have that technology. Wedo have nano carbon tubes right now,
metallic caverns that are no larger thana diameter of one atom, resistance to
ordinary cutting techniques such as metallic sawingor severing with cutting instruments. One of
(40:37):
the specimens had to be cut witha laser. I mean, that's proof,
that's pro it is. But butwell, when we get back,
I want to ask you, becauseI have an open mind. This this
is not I'm not being argumented.Yeah, but I want to know where
this stuff is and we're going totalk about that when we come back after
this break. So stay with thosefolks with my guests, less from us,
(40:59):
and we're back with our last session. Less. This has gone really
really quickly, just a fascinating discussion. I do want to remind everybody if
you want to learn a little bitmore about my organization at Florida Buer of
paranorl Investigation, check us out atParanormal leftbi dot com or on Facebook with
Florida Buer of Paranyl Investigation, andalso Indian Riverhauntings dot com. Check out
(41:19):
some of our videos at Indian onYouTube at Indian River Hauntings two three four
one, and also get a holdof me at ghost Sky at Paranormal stakeout
dot org. Send us a question, thoughts and comments and we'll bring them
up at the beginning of this show. I also want to remind everybody there's
some great programming on the excellent broadcastnetwork. Go to x ZBN dot net
(41:40):
and check out all the great showsthere. I think you'll find some fascinating
stuff, but less How can folkslearn more about you and get a hold
of you, absolutely well, theeasiest place to go is right down there
in the bottom of my picture hereopus neetwork dot org. If you go
there, you'll get a full overviewof what we're all about, articles,
(42:02):
documents that we have on our site, recommended readings, and an interview series
where actually I interview people as well, and I've had, you know,
a lot of good interviews there.One of the most recent ones was with
an XCI a gentlemarned by the nameof John Ramirez, and he told me
some pretty interesting facts about there's goingto be even bigger revelations coming down to
(42:24):
Pike here very soon with regard tothe extraterrestrial phenomena. And see that's once
again that's the biggest difference between yourside and my side of the of the
paranormal world. We're still we're stillworking to get the evidence out there,
something that we could share with thescientific world. I'm hearing from you that
(42:45):
it's there. What's keeping it fromcoming out? If, for example,
the doctor you just mentioned who tookout all the implants, where are those
implants? All the ones that wellthere are they? Well, if you
if you go to my book TheUnknown Other and the Existential Proposition of Alien
Contact, these things were examined byvery high Uh well, not high is
(43:08):
not the right word I should use. These are labs that have great credentials.
Okay, this is where the informationcame from after they were analyzed,
and so all all of that information, there's a trail of of I forget
(43:29):
the word to hear that they usea trail of anyway. Bottom line is
that somebody has it. They knowwhere it's a chain of custody of the
even if we have the chain ofme. But if we have the chain
of custody, that means we canfollow it. Yes, So where is
it? Well? Where is it? Well it believe me, I don't
(43:52):
have it. I believe me.I don't believe you don't. But what
I'm getting at is, if there'sthis stuff was taken out and this is
one thing that I really harp onon my side, offenses collection and preservation
of evidence and keeping that appropriate chaincustody so it can be shown that nothing's
been done on toward toward it,with it, with with the evidence.
(44:14):
So once again, and I'm nota rhetorical question, Okay, so where
is it? And why can't wesee it? Is this something that's going
to come out with some of theselater h I think I think, I
think, yeah, I think that'sprobably just going to be a very small
subset of what's going to be comingout, basically, because that will shut
everything down if somebody comes out andsays, look at these these implants taken
(44:37):
out of these folks, and here'sthe mit allergic breakdown of it. And
it's not from this earth that's goingto solve a lot of problems. Well,
but it's got a kind Yeah.And and he wrote a book Alien
and the Scalpel, which I believethat he talks about. Uh, perhaps
(45:00):
where that is he's passed away,unfortunately, but I don't think. I
don't think he's the one that Andthat's a good question, that's a very
good question. I don't know.I brought this up simply to tell people
that this is what happened. Thisis what happened when they took these things
out. These were the results verifiedby these labs. Okay, Now where
(45:21):
those things are right now, Idon't know. And the problem is you
cannot take that to a court oflaw and say this is proof. You
can't because you can't produce it.Now. Hopefully we'll get to the point
where where they will produce it,but right now you can't. And that's
and that once again hurt It hurtsmy side offense when I can't produce evidence.
So it's got it's got to hurtyour side. Also, here's another
(45:44):
question for going no, no,no, God, I was just gonna
ask. This is something I gotand I do not the fest to be
an expert in the in the UFOfield, I'm not. I'm learning quite
a bit from folks like you.But I've heard that there is over eighty
four species of aliens that have visitedthis earth or contacted this earth. And
(46:07):
is there is there any truth ofthat? Well, I've heard numbers from
those kind of numbers, even highernumbers. Okay, I have no proof
whatsoever that that's the case. Themain ones that we deal with, okay,
are the grays, are the Mantitypes, are the Reptilian types?
(46:29):
Are the Nordic types? Those are? Those are like the four main categories.
Now if you talk to Linda Molton, howe uh, there's three types
that have been mostly involved, okaywith our government. Okay, Uh,
(46:50):
you know high missed this. RetiredIsraeli General Security Group in Israel brought out
a book and he talked about thefact that yes, we've been in cahoots
with these entities for quite some time, uh, and that they don't want
to show themselves in any way,shape or form at this point because we're
(47:14):
not ready that we have bases onthe Moon, we have bases on Mars,
We've been traveling around the universe.Why bring it up quite some time?
Why this is another another question?Why would they if they can't prove
it, if they don't want,if whoever they're dealing with doesn't want to
us to know about them, becausewe're not ready, why even bring it
(47:36):
out? Well, I think wellthey didn't. They didn't bring it up.
This general brought it up because heknews. Yeah, and and and
I think you know, all thesepeople that are are testifying now, okays
are are very sincere, very wellrespected people, and they're they're having a
(47:57):
hard time because the Pentagon doesn't wantthis stuff to come out. There's there's
two major forces going on. Youhave people that want this story to come
out, and you have people thatdon't want the story to come out,
okay, And why is that?Because the people that have the power,
people that have the power want toremain in power. And they also from
a security standpoint, a national securitystandpoint, if they start revealing that we
(48:23):
do have technology that we've reverse engineered, we don't want our friendly enemies to
understand that the Russians are the Chineseor the Koreans or the Iranians to to
to have that that kind of knowledge. So it's a very interesting time that
we're living in right now. AndI agree, But wouldn't you also agree
(48:44):
that if we're finding this stuff,if we're hiding it and we're reverse engineering
it, and we don't want ourour enemies to know, you've got to
believe that they're also finding stuff andthey're also working on reverse engineers. Oh
absolutely, Oh absolutely they are.And it's a it's an arms race again
like the Cold War, you know, but it's this is this is happening
(49:05):
now because both sides have evidence,you know, crashed UFOs supposedly alien bodies,
So hey, it's gonna would wouldwould you agree though? That the
time has coming? I mean,I'm I work out very hard on my
side of the field, but myside of the field does not have the
(49:27):
same security concerns that your side ofthe field does. Right, isn't it
about time if this, if thisstuff is real, that it be brought
out so we can all see it, because it's not helping these bits and
pieces coming out, but we're notwe're not seeing the proof. And I'm
open mind, I I do notknow what's out there. There are things
(49:50):
that we don't understand. But ifthey've got some hard evidence, time to
share it. Oh, I agree, I totally agree. I mean you
would you wouldn't get an argument fromany of the people in this field at
all. We want this, Werelish this. Uh that's going on.
I mean we have multiple senators,congressmen, you know, a very bipartisan
(50:13):
effort to get this stuff out.And so I don't know if you you
saw that congressional hearing, but yeah, I mean that was amazing. I
mean you had you had people inthat in that room, Democrats on one
side and Republicans on the other,that basically hated themselves most of the time,
(50:35):
but they came together and they agree. And I have friends that disagree
with the two pilots that testified whatthey saw. But I'm I am not
going to dispute two gentlemen that areserving our country proudly, you know,
defending it. So I've got toput some stock in what they're saying.
But at the same time, butat the same time, we got to
(50:55):
start putting, you know, ourmoney where our mouth is. And if
there's evidence out there, if there'sso many people talking about it, there's
got to be a way to producethat evidence, I mean, and it's
being got, it's being worked on. I'm I'm part of another organization that's
just getting off the ground and theyhave been working with the Congress to start
(51:21):
supplying more information and more evidence.So's it's the time has come this year.
I think before the end of theyear, you're you're gonna be talking
about a whole another ball game.What I'm fascinated in the last couple of
minutes of the show here is there'sso much talk now and you've mentioned it
earlier about the psychological, the psychokineticangle to this connecting UFOs with ghosts.
(51:50):
I personally haven't seen it yet.I'm okay, I've not. I've not
experienced that kind of connection, butthere are many people that I have,
and I'm waiting to see if there'sgoing to be a connection made between the
UFO community the cryptic community who manypeople believe that Bigfoot is a dimensional capture
and is that what we've got goingon here. I was on a show
(52:12):
last night where folks were talking aboutactual wormholes being maybe a part of this
whole thing. Right way beyond mypay grade. I'm just an old cop.
But that's you know, uh yeah, lots of things are happening.
Oh, I mean this is physicsthat we don't fully understand. And and
and so you know when people say, well, we can't go faster than
(52:32):
the speed of light, but maybeyou don't have to go faster than the
speed of light if you can getinto a wormhole or or or or a
portal. And there's talk about portals. I mean a matter of fact,
there was a show Kathleen Corey didon the Terror in the Sky where they
actually filmed a portal opening up andand and a lot of times these orbs.
(52:59):
I've seen picture of orbs where youcould actually see gray aliens in the
orb. You could actually see theirfaces. Yeah, you could see them,
one being close to the to thefront of the orb, some in
the background looking in different directions.You're talking to a guy that doesn't put
much stock in orbs. I'm sorry, I've never had just from my side
(53:19):
of the fence. But here's thehere's the here's the bottom line. We've
got about thirty thirty five seconds.Okay, the time has come where if
this is going to be taken seriously. The evidence has got to come out
because until that time it's it's goingto be fringe sides. Any party words
in the last fifteen twenty seconds.Well, I think the thing is that
you need to be open minded,uh, certainly. And if you do
(53:43):
have issues with contact with non humanintelligences and you're looking for assistance, uh,
please come to our site Opus networkdot org. Please go to our
YouTube channel as well, hit thesubscribe button, the like button and you'll
see interviews there that I've done.Look forward to it and folks, thank
(54:07):
you for watching. Thank you Lesfor being on the show. It was
very fascinating. And everybody out thereplease take care, love your family,
take care of yourselves, and we'llsee you on the other side. Have
a good night.
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