October 20, 2023 • 52 mins
Machiel Klerk is a social entrepreneur, licensed mental health therapist, international speaker, dream worker, and published author. He has been a mental health therapist since 2006, and currently has an online private practice. Machiel is fascinated by healing traditions. He earned a master’s degree in counseling psychology at Pacifica Graduate Institute. Machiel has traveled all over the world and studied many cultures and their healing and dream traditions, and in specific the African traditions as South Africa is the country of his birth. Machiel has published a book ‘Dream Guidance’ with the respected Hay House publishing company. The book is currently available through Amazon, Barnes and Nobles as a pre-order. Machiel has given lectures and workshops in Europe, South Africa and North America about dreams and psychology. He also provides inspirational talks and workshops for companies on creativity, innovation and leadership. He has written several articles on dreams and released a course on Jung Platform. Machiel has vocationally been guided by dreams when he founded the Jung Society of Utah and the online organization Jung Platform as a result of a night time dream. In appreciation for these contributions, he has received several awards from the local community. He moved in his early youth from South Africa to the Netherlands, and lived a year in France during his teenage years. He backpacked a year through Asia and then moved in2004 to the USA where he still lives and dreams.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:10):
Welcome to the Paranormal Stakeout Radio TVshow with Larry Lawson. As a former
career law enforcement officer and law enforcementeducator, Larry focuses on the use of
tried and true law enforcement investigated techniquesin conducting paranormal investigations. Despite his experience
and training, Larry also and keepsan open mind to discussions on topics that
(00:33):
deal with evidence that are not quiteas physical in nature. Paranormal Stakeout guests
are professionals in the field of theparanormal and parapsychology, conducting the investigations and
research needed to further the cause ofparanormal study. Larry advocates an agenda of
standardization of structure and training in thefield of paranormal investigation and research for the
(00:56):
purpose of one day being able toproduce the evidence needs to convince a jury
of the existence of the paranormal,whether it is ghosts, UFOs, unsolved
mysteries, hauntings, or cryptids.No topic is beyond the investigative reach of
Larry Lawson and the Paranormal Steakhout RadioTV show team. Now Here is the
(01:17):
host of the Paranormal Steakout Radio TVshow Larry Lawson. Hello everyone, and
(01:40):
welcome back to Paranormal Steakout, theplace where everything on the table is on
the table when it comes to theparanormal. I'm Larry laws and your host,
and I'm sure glad to be backwith you tonight. Want to take
a quick second to just let's keepour world in prayer tonight. There's a
lot going on and we're going tobe talking about some interesting things tonight,
but let's let's keep focused on whatthe reality is out there in the world
(02:04):
and say a prayer for all ofthose in need. If you'd like to
know a little bit more about mycrew, because we're coming to you from
the headquarters of the Florida Bureau ofParanormal Investigation, you can learn more about
us there at Paranormal FBI dot com. You can learn more about Indian River
Hauntings, which is my other organization, at Indie Riverhauntings dot com. You
(02:25):
can also find us on Facebook attwo three I'm sorry Indian River Hauntings two
three four one. You can emailme also at Gostky at Paranormal Steakout dot
org if you have questions that you'dlike to bring up or have me mentioned
here at the beginning of the show. Get a hold of me at that
at that email, and you canalways check out all of my shows at
(02:46):
paranormal steakout dot org. So welcomeback everybody. I've got a great guest
tonight, and it's it's interesting becauseyou know, I enjoy talking about the
mind, and I think tonight's topicis going to really really fit that.
Bill Michael Clark is a social entrepreneur, licensed mental health therapist, international speaker,
(03:07):
dream worker, and published author.He has been a mental health therapist
since two thousand and six and currentlyhas an online practice. He's fascinated by
healing traditions from about the world.He's earned his master's degree in Counseling Psychological
Counseling at pacifica Graduate Institute. Hehas traveled all over the world, studying
(03:29):
many cultures and their healing and dreamtraditions, and in specific the African traditions,
as South Africa is the country ofhis birth. He's also a published
author, publishing the book Dream Guidance. He's worked all over the world,
lectured all over the world, andalso has been involved with the Young Platform,
(03:49):
which is his I'm sorry the YoungSociety of Utah, which deals with
all of his work with dreams.So with that, Michael Clark, welcome
to the show. Thank you,Larry. It's a pleasure to be here
with you, and it's a pleasureto have you here. Such a resume
there, Sin it's hard, Itgot to get all of it in on
a quick second. But you've doneso much, and obviously dream work is
(04:13):
your passion. Is that a goodway to put it. Yeah, It's
really central to my passion and fascinationand I've studied it from all these traditions
and happy to engage in some conversationaround it. Let's talk. Tell us
a little bit about yourself. Howyou ended up going from counseling in the
world of psychology into dream work.Share with us how you ended up there.
(04:38):
Well, it really started early on. My dad died when I was
ten, and my family, myculture didn't know how to grief. So
I bottled up the grief and itbecame a cult territory around my soul.
And in my early twenties I startedreading Carl Jung, who gave me some
(04:59):
clue on how to to be withdreams, and then I really started having
a flood of dreams that helped meguide me to a sense of purpose,
but also reconnected me to to myfather, who lives further on the other
side. And so my life changedradically for the better because I started working
(05:21):
with dreams and I was so gratefulto it that I have been hanging on
ever since. What What are dreams? A kind of a maybe a silly
question, but I think it reallygoes the hardest. What are dreams?
Yes, well, let's start withthe experience of dream. When we are
(05:42):
in a dream, we experience tobe in a in an environment, in
a world where we actually interact withour with our environment, with the with
the dream monster or the figure,or in the we drive in a car.
And the other remarkable phenomenon is thatactually our mind is awake. We
(06:04):
are awake in the dream state.And so there you have three aspects of
a dream. You're in a world, it's not a movie you watch,
you're interacting, and you actually areawake. You just don't know you're in
a dream, otherwise you would belucid. That's to be aware in the
(06:24):
dream. So we're in another world, having an experience, and that is
what we know about a dream.And then even if you take it a
step further, when we open oureyes in the morning, that world doesn't
disappear. It just continues to coexistnext to our day to day experience,
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and there remains an ongoing dance betweenus and the dream world. So we
have these day dreams or fantasies thatis just a dream world moving into our
day to day consciousness. And sothe dreams in this world are an interconnected,
are interconnected. Well, what you'retelling me is that this is not
(07:10):
just a an event in the mind, something that the mind is conjuring up.
You're you're actually saying, it's aparallel universe, a parallel world with
what we are dealing with while we'reawake. Is that how I'm hearing at
Yes, it's it's both a presentwhile we're awake as at night and in
the dream. Experientially, everyone cancan check it for themselves. You're in
(07:32):
a world, and no matter whereyou place this world, we feel to
be in the world. And thenin that dream world we meet both elements
of our personal mind that manifest assymbols, but we can also encounter or
disease. Love One spirit guides uhreal others, even other dreamers in this
(07:57):
in this in this world, andand we can do all kinds of things
in and with that world. Butyeah, that's what a dream is.
Einstein discusses in this general theory ofrelativity of different dimensions that sit parallel to
ours. Is this kind of whatyou're describing? Also? Is it a
(08:18):
different dimension? Because what I guesswhat it's hard to conceive is there's a
separate world that we existed, andthat's kind of what I'm hearing. So
is this a dimension as Einstein talkedabout it? Perhaps I think it's closer
to another dimension. We're right nowin a world, and when we go
to bed and we fall asleep,we're in another world, and we forget
(08:43):
all about the world we're in rightnow. We're in that other world having
an experience. Don't know that.We lay in our bed in the town
we've always lived or long time lived, and then we wake up and we're
here again. But we can move, and in this reality, we can
move into the other world, whichis coexisting. It's here, but it's
(09:07):
not as dense as this world.Then I'm just gonna use myself as an
example. I will dream a thedream will be vivid, but I'll wake
up I can't remember it. Yeah, But also that being the case,
when we dream again, why don'twe go back to that same world?
Why why is it different? Sotwo questions there, I'll let you choose
(09:31):
which one answer first. The firstone, as is that our short term
memory doesn't work at night, sothat is why we actually forget that we've
been in bed for six, seven, eight hours. But the mind is
awake all the time. So ourmind, at the core of our own
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being is awake in this reality becausenow I am awake, But in the
dream, the same part that saysI am awake is also awake. It's
just having an experience in this inthis dream reality, and it forgets about
it because neurologically, it shows ourour short term memory doesn't function. But
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for some reason, being in touchwith the other world seems not to be
helpful for our memory. So youhave to write down your dream upon waking
and go ahead. No, no, I've actually thought about doing that,
but I can never remember usually whatthat dream was before I can write it
down. So you can change Youcan change that by simply putting pen and
(10:39):
paper next to your bed before yougo to bed, you say, dream,
if you come tonight, I willwrite you down tomorrow, and then
you just do it, even ifyou have a feeling I feel tight in
my stomach. Oh, it feltlike I was being chased or whatever.
You write it down and then andthen the dream dream comes back. If
(11:03):
we did that. If I didthat, would I find that my notes
tonight will be an extension or acontinuation of my notes from the next night
that I dreamt, And That's whatI was getting at before. If it
were going to a world, thenwould we go back to that world?
Where do we go to a differentone? Uh? We Yes? Dreams
(11:24):
are a continuation of our life.It's like the tapestry of life is being
welln further in dreams. Dreams arepartially a world that is generated by our
own beliefs and experiences. So ifI have an experience today that in which
I feel like I'm really needing todo all kinds of things and I feel
(11:48):
not adequate, I might have aclassic dream tonight in which I'm running through
the university looking for my classroom.So dreams wake up on usually on the
day to day activities, and soit moves through what we experience there and
then we're here and then we andthen the dream is more of response to
(12:11):
what we experience today. Again,but people do have dreams in which they
visit the same house, the samelandscape, the same meet the same people.
So there seems to be also acontinuation in dream themes or dream experiences
that people have. And there aresome people that wake up in a dream
and then go to bed and justdream the dream. Further, Okay,
(12:37):
do dreams have a meaning? Iunderstand you're saying a separate world, but
do they also have a meaning?I uh, dreamings of flying being able
to fly, or the dreams thatyou're falling and you wake up before you
hit are their meanings to those typesof things? Well, it's it's a
(12:58):
it's a big question. It stretchesas far as is their meaning to this
reality, and you can answer itin several ways. But we can look
at the dream and extract meaning fromit. So we will probably dream about
falling if we have somebody experience inday to day life that we're having a
(13:22):
falling experience. Maybe I feel likeI'm falling in love or I'm not,
I feel like I fall off theCliff, then I might dream of falling,
and so you can see that thedreams represent emotional states, so they
become kind of psychological x rays thatshow what goes really on inside of me.
(13:48):
Now there are more dreams also,pre cognitive dreams or dreams in which
we meet ancestors. They're not necessarilyin We're going to get into that.
Trust me, I'm very anxious tohear more about that. But believe it
or not, our first section hereis just about over. So, folks,
I'm here with Michael Clerk talking aboutdreams. Tonight, stay with us.
We back right after these messages.We are back on paranormal stake out
(14:11):
my guest night, Michael Clerk.Fascinating subject and I pads of personal experiences
that really hit home with me onthis entire topic. But I'm a detective
by trade, Michael, I liketo figure out why some things, So
I want to ask you a coupleof questions before we delve into some of
these other things. Obviously, you'reyou're a well educated, well learned individual.
(14:35):
What what do the neurologists or theneuroscientists that study the brain, how
do their theories of dreams and howthe brain works coincide with your theories and
thoughts and how did you how didyou develop these theories for lack of a
better term, yeah, well,the theories are mainly based on my personal
(15:00):
experiences and that that leads leads tothem. Initially in neuroscience, the idea
was that it was completely random dreams. Then it shifted to it was chaos,
and it was a big shift becausechaos has an inherent structure in it.
It's not random nor meaningless. Sothe notion is that there is some
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meaning formation happening in dreams. Otherelements that that neuroscience says is that dreams
are partly used for by the brainfor memory formation, so you uh start
and that has been tested as well. If you study for a test,
(15:48):
it's better to sleep on it becauseyour brain starts creating a stronger memory and
you will do better on the testthe next day than if you cramp till
the last second. It has todo with with emotional digestion of experiences.
So there it is. It ishelpful. And what neuroscience also has seen
(16:14):
is that when people don't dream ordon't sleep, they become psychotic, and
so steep and dreams appears to befundamental for a person's health. And then
of course my notions of uhuh,these parallel worlds, they don't truly get
reflected in in in neuroscience, butthey can see how how perception creates a
(16:41):
world and how actually your your yourperceptive abilities of generating worlds is active in
in dream and the neuro and thefrontal cortex is active and that could indicate
consciousness or have consciousness in dream.So you think part of this this process
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is chemical or organic? Am Igetting that right? I think they don't
exclude each other. That okay?They they they they're on the spectrum.
It can be both in a chemicaluh aspect that at the same time as
a psychological or spiritual component. That'sthe next question. How do you see
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the spiritual component coming into this?I mean, we've we've talked about the
parallel world. What else is outthere? What's causing us to see that
other world? What? What isanother world? Part of what is the
spiritual connection? And how do youthink it connects with the organic workings of
(17:48):
our brain? Does that make sense? Yes? A lot of questions in
one No, sorry, I theuh, the the dreaming consciousness is a
state of consciousness that is twenty fourseven present and uh, and and we
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can access that state of consciousness,and we do that actually spontaneously very often.
If a person reads a book ona certain moment, if they're really
in the book, they see themselves, walk through the jungle in Vietnam,
they see the opponent, and theystart seeing a world around them. If
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they also say, where is thatworld? Well, I actually see the
world around me. So that ishow where imagination comes in and starts generating
a world. And uh, andthat same mechanism happens when we fall asleep.
A world is generated and we experiencethat world as real and interacting that
(18:53):
world. And that's that's that's howwe have these experiences of this this coexisting
world. Have you had an experienceor an epiphany that shows that this isn't
just uh, the imagination maybe andit is a separate world? What how
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do you how do you know thatthere's a second world? How do you
theorize as a second world? Yeah? Yeah, well you can you can
in dream? Uh. You canyou can in dream meet dream others and
ask them questions and then you seethat they're that they either whether it's an
uh a figure that they can tellyou things about yourself that you didn't know,
(19:45):
or that they can tell you thingsthat you can verify. So I
know of people that have met eachother in the dream and then did the
dream sign and that was then laterverified, or they or they would meet
uh deceased and Joanne that told themwhere they could find something of value in
the house where she lived. Andso those are very viable events. And
(20:11):
dreams can sometimes portray things that happenin the future that you can always say
that's your intuition. But then yeah, then you place your intuition really inside
yourself. Well, you didn't knowabout it, right, I was actually
going to ask you about prophetic dreams. This is the first of a bunch
of things I'd like to pick yourbrain about prophetic dreams where the people are
(20:33):
seeing the future. How do youperceive that's happening? Well, I don't
know. Have you ever had aprophetic dream? Larry me personally, not
that I'm aware, not that I'maware of Okay, Well, people have
had prophetic dreams that both are relativelysilly, Like I dream about that Uncle
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Joe sends me a letter and thentwo days later there is the letter,
and I would why would the dreamtell me or things that that are about
to happen the the it's it appearsto be that something in us is moving
in a certain direction. So justlike the rose seat becomes a rose on
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a certain moment, the psyche canpredict that this seat is going to grow
into a rose. So it's notthat the future is fixed and the dream
can tell you, oh, thisis for sure going to happen, but
based on the here and now,it can make a very accurate prediction on
the on the near future, oron the further future. And I've had
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dreams, for example, with mygrandfather that I started having a dream that
first that I was in a churchfor a funeral and in the coffin there
was my grand father. Then acouple of months later, hers came to
the house and I had to helpmy grandfather into the hers. And then
again a couple of months later,my grandfather died. And I think those
(22:11):
were dreams that were anticipating predicting thedeath of my grandfather, you know.
And there's I just did a presentationand the folks that I talked to,
it's I told them, there's somany things that are out there that we
can't explain that keep happening, andthat's certainly one of them. I know
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there's one, gentleman, I believe. I believe it was Richard Sennett had
told me a story once about howhe was involved in a case where he
talked to a person that remembered thishouse, and finally she kept driving by
and driving by and driving by.She's finally stopped and she knocked on the
door because she remembered that house,knocked on the door, and the people
that answered it recognized her from theirdreams. I believe it's how it was,
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you know, I mean, howdo those things happen, especially when
it comes from from you know,folks that that that you trust. So
that's I've had dreams of my fatherthat are so real, and I'll be
honest with you. At the time, I passed them off as just the
memory, the emotional and the memory. And that's kind of what I was
driving at before. Where is thechemical, the organic part of this come
(23:19):
in? Because they were real.One was at my at my house as
I was growing up, which Icould easily pass off as just memory.
The second one wasn't that way itwas him in a different spot, but
him talking to me about it's everything'sall right kind of put and I that
(23:40):
dream has always stuck with me,and I've always wondered what the connection was.
Well, that that is a relativelycommon phenomena. So dreams could of
course portray uh, deceased people orloved ones as symbols. So I would
ask, but what do you associateto your father? Ow you was this
(24:03):
disciplined man that could speak up.And then maybe the quality shows up.
Other dreams have a different feeling downeto them and and and people those are
more visitation dreams where people really havethis sense this this very well could be
dead. And then uh, thecontent like you just described is very often
(24:26):
that they come and they have somesense of a message that I'm okay,
it's okay here, I love you, I care about you, Please live
your life on on on earth anduh and and that's an relatively common experience
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for for people to have. Andand of course we can it begs the
question is this really a visitation ornot? And and it's hard to say
scientifically. And once in a while, and one of these ancestors says something
that can be verified, like,please tell your sister so and so and
(25:11):
or your sister is has in disease, or your sister is pregnant, or
the key to uh so and sois there in the house exactly. It's
almost as if a medium is sendingyou a message from the other side.
So let's talk about that for asecond. How do dreams connect if there's
(25:34):
another side, if there is aspirit world where our loved ones have gone
to after their death, how dohow does that all connect the dreams?
It seems that the length of thedead is is is a other manifestation of
another world, and that these worldsare not really as separate. So the
(25:57):
lent of the dead and the worldand this world are maybe all coexisting it
and continuum maybe like vibration, andthat the length of the death is a
higher vibration the length of dreams.And this is just very dense and so
in certain certain ways we can moveup and down and they can move up
(26:18):
and down. That's that's an explanationof why this could happen. And uh,
we're getting close for our next breakagain. But when we come back,
and I want you to kind ofchew on this one a little bit.
I want to talk about the possibilityof a collective consciousness and how all
this might come together to form thedreams or form these dimensions. I'd like
(26:42):
to hear your thoughts on that injust uh, in just a few minutes,
because fascinating subject that I just don'tthink we have all the answers to
yet. So stay with us,folks. We're about ready to take our
next break. When we get back, we're going to talk about the collect
to consciousness and its association with dreams. So stay with us. Way back
(27:03):
after these messages and we're back onparanorial stake out with my guest to night,
Michael Clark. Looking for Mike,Michael or is he's still with us?
I do not see him, Michael, are you with us? Well,
maybe the dream world took him awayagain. Hopefully we'll go work.
(27:29):
We'll work to get him back injust a couple of seconds. Ope,
there he is right there. Okay, he had me worried. I thought
maybe he went into the dream worldor something. Okay, we're back and
we're talking about the collective conscious Thisis a topic I've talked to many folks
on the show about as to youknow, how when spirits leave here where
(27:52):
they go do they do? Theyrecycle? And a common theme has been
there's just one giant, for lackof a better term, the way I
ualize it as the ball out there, which is where everything is. Your
thoughts, your feelings on that.And if you do agree with that or
you do look at things that way, how does the dream work connect there?
(28:14):
Good question? Or yeah, it'sthe You could say that there's just
one that everything has is just ofone substance, and then in the substance
there are different modifications of that substance, and then everything is in itself interconnected
(28:36):
and and and and there's no separation. And so then then the dream world
and the length of the death andnear death experiences are all happening within this
one I call it substance for forlack of better work, And they're all
happening in that one substance. Andand we can we can experience all these
(28:57):
things and and our our perceptions andthoughts and emotions they localize in time and
space, our unique experience with within. But it's in itself where we have
just an experience that generates time.But even that substance doesn't truly take place
(29:21):
in time like well, if this, if these questions were easy, somebody
would come up with the answers along time ago. So you talk,
I know, you talk a littlebit about spirit guides. How do spirit
guides assist? How do they getto us? Store do they use our
dreams to contact us ours? Howdoes spirit guides help us? And how
(29:45):
do they connect? They seem tolive in the world of dream. I
was once in a dream and Ibecame lucid. I realized that I was
in a dream, and then Ithought, oh, let me yell out.
Is there anyone with a message forme? And then I see my
youth hero, Yoan Kraf, asoccer player, fly to me, and
(30:07):
he comes to me and says,come, I'm gonna show you something.
So we fly together, and thenin the distance below there's a crossing and
he says, now, I'm gonnateach you how to cross a crossing in
the dream. I think that soundsa bit boring. I had expected something
more more interesting, but he says, you just have to go. You
(30:32):
go, and when you get anxious, you stop, but you don't go
back. And then when you're notanxious anymore, you go further and as
long until you get to the otherside. I wrote down the dream,
couldn't immediately make something from it.And then later the day I realized I'm
at a cross point in my life. I wanted to jump from the from
(30:53):
the clinic I worked to the privatepractice, but that was a financial risk
and will people come and well theyappreciate what I do? So I was
hesitant, and then I saw,oh, this dream figure and guiding figure
in the dream, they teach mehow to cross this crossing. Go just
(31:15):
don't go back, don't cave intoyour fear and jump back to the clinic.
Stay where you are, be okaywith being anxious, and then go
on. And so I did that, and when I was anxious, like
oh, will people call, etcetera, I would remember that and I
made it to the other side.In in sing people are so profoundly affected
(31:41):
by their dreams at times. Howdo we how do we seek this guidance
and understand and get this guidance throughour dreams? What other steps? Is
there a method, a process?Yeah, there's there's several ways people can
do this. It really starts withstart writing down the dreams, because spontaneously
(32:04):
Dreams come to people with help andguidance. Paul McCartney got the song Yesterday
in a dream. Stephen King writesparts of his book based on his dreams.
The largest oil field in uh InKuwait has been discovered because someone had
a dream on where to drill.So dreams proactively help people with any aspect
that's relevant to their life. Anduh so that is one that it happens
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spontaneously and you have to write itdown because when we write it down,
we also signal back to the dreamI'm interested. If you come, I
will will write you down. Andthen step two is once you do that,
you can start talking to the dream. Can say, will dream,
I listen to Larry and Machhill today. It was a bit weird, but
(32:52):
I'm willing to test this hypothesis.And then you say, dream, what
is one way for me to lovemyself more deeply? Or what's one type
of food that is good for meto eat? Or ask something that is
really emotionally important to you. Youcould even be with a case you're you're
(33:13):
as a detective, what is thewhat should I know about this case?
And if it's really emotionally important toyou, it will the dream will very
often help you step further. Theyeven did some research at Harvard University around
it, and they saw that twothirds of the people that did this got
(33:34):
a dream that was helpful and onethird didn't. And then they looked at
what might cause the difference and thensaw that the people that asked a question
of medical nature or emotional relevance,they got a helpful dream. So that's
that's one way that people can nurturethis and even can test this tonight.
You don't have to believe in it. Just be open, ask a question
(33:57):
that's relevant and see what happens.It almost sounds like you're praying, Yeah,
would you just would you? Describedwould almost be like, you know,
Lord, you know, give mesome guidance in this area. Yeah,
yeah, very much. The oldnotion of a knock and uh,
(34:19):
you shall be opened and the fathergives good gifts to those that ask and
uh. It's in the same lineand with the with the with the notification
that the dream is not a wishfulfilling genie. If I ask what did
my neighbor have for dinner? Howcan I get a ferrari? It's not
(34:40):
likely that the dream will will respondto that. But if I ask a
question is relevant to my life?What's going on with me? Why am
I so upset with my partner?How can I grow my business and serve
other people? Just like in ain a in a good prayer, it's
better to pray for for goodness.Yeah, for goodness? Yeah, and
(35:02):
that's selfish things. Okay? Doyou interpret dreams? Also? Is that
part of what you what does andI mean we've all kind of take us
a little bit lighter now, we'veall had some crazy dreams flying. Yes,
is there a meaning to that?It depends also a little bit on
how people fly. Are they flyinglike Superman through the air? They are
(35:25):
they in the plane? That thatthat makes the difference. But you would
also often ask what is the experience? Oh, I was flying and I
felt so free? What what?What might that be about? Sometimes it
is people are blocked down and thenthey at night they have a different experience
(35:45):
of a different state of consciousness,it's way more free, and then they
can they get freedom into their dayto day life and feel a little bit
more free and have a different experience. So it's sometimes just almost dream alchemy.
You take your experience of freedom backhere. Other times people fly way
(36:06):
too high, and then that mightindicate that they're like Icarus a little bit,
flying too close to the sun.They're slightly inflated and they have to
come down. So there's not oneanswer, but you would look a little
bit at the experience and the context. So would this be almost like the
(36:28):
spirit guides trying to give you ahint to change? Would that be a
way to look at this, Yeah, it would be kind of a psychological
X ray showing that you're too high, or indeed giving you some something that
sometimes I've seen with people that aredepressed and then at once they fly in
the dream and it is light andit is delicious, and then they can
(36:52):
take some of that experience and infusethat into the excessive denseness of their day
to day life, so that thatthat that it's almost like you put two
fluids together and then some new substancecomes out of it. And that's that's
another way that dreams can help withpsychological transformation. And I won't tell you
(37:15):
some of the dreams I've had becausethis is a family show, but all
kidding aside, I mean I've hadI remember having dreams when I was younger,
I would be going to school,I have being my pajamas. Yeah,
I mean, I mean crazy thingslike that. And you know you've
always passed that off. It's justmaybe you ate something silly before you went
to better But it's not an uncommondream. And when we're not appropriately dressed
(37:40):
in public, it's very often thatwe're somehow not well prepared in our social
social engagement. Sometimes people find themselveshave naked in public or fully naked,
so they're way to exposed or theyfeel very vulnerable being in public. M
(38:00):
hm. And your theory is thisisn't so much your mind just trying to
straighten you out. This is trulythe other side giving you hints. Yeah
maybe yeah, it's it's something oreven something in your mind that is not
I So, whether it's the otherside or it's a normal self with with
(38:23):
you in it, that that helpsyou helps you further. So I do
believe there's a guiding principle in lifethat that guides in support and and it
and it does that in these ways. You ever see science coming in line
with these more spiritual theories? Andif you do, how do you think
(38:47):
that science will get how do youthink the two sides will come together.
Well, I think that science startsto start uh uh, there's a there's
a lot of science that that startsgetting close to lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming
(39:07):
is scientifically verified, and there ithelps helps see how is perception uh generated
And we see just in the dream, how you perceive to be in a
world that isn't really doesn't have anymaterial basis to it. And actually the
(39:29):
same form of perception is also laidover this world. So what we what
we perceive is really generated in ourselvesis painted over this world. So that
is that is more where where wherewhere the science comes? And you talk
about how to work a dream andhow to create a kind of a five
(39:52):
step method for effectively getting guidance,and you've talked about that a little bit.
Wow, what do people need towhat do you think people need to
do to be to take the seriously? To take these dreams seriously? I
mean for years, you know,you have dreams and a lot of people
(40:12):
just blow them off. I franklydidn't till I had these dreams about my
father that were so vivid and soreal. How should people learn to take
them? Take the guidance realistically,Well, I think what you what you
point out is until we have ourown experience of that this is helpful.
It remains a nice story and youcan take it or leave it. But
(40:37):
once you see that that dreams arereally practical and support it and can help
you in relationships, find a partner. I've started the company based on a
dream. Then and you notice that, then things change. So people that
are somewhat skeptical or anyone could starttonight and just do that five step process.
(41:05):
And one is take a question.Ask a question that is emotionally relevant
to you. So just ask yourselfwhat wants to be asked and it's like,
oh am I in the right relationship, that's a scary question, Or
how can I grow my business andserve others? Or it's one thing I
(41:27):
can do to love myself. Asksomething, write it down, create a
little ritual, prayer, light acandle, make a drawing, go to
bed, meditate on it, stepforward, sleep, and then in the
morning, write down the dream,even if you think it has nothing to
do with your question, and thenwork it a little. Half of your
dreams are pretty clear. The otherhalf you initially say has nothing to do
(41:52):
with my dream, then come backlater the day or read it to your
partner, and your partner might saysomething and you think, oh, my
gosh, yeah, now it makessense. And once you see oh,
this makes sense and I didn't knowthis, and this is really helpful,
then people connect to a sense ofguidance in their dream and then they have
(42:15):
a tool that can apply whenever theyfeel stuck or when I have some guidance,
and that can be u it canbe helpful. But yeah, that
makes sense. And unfortunately for me, I try to connect everything, Michael
with some sort of tangible, tangibleresult that I could put my fingers on.
(42:35):
It's the cop in me, youknow. I collect evidence. So
sometimes it's hard for me to graspthat I'm going to tell you something that
I really haven't told anybody. Butover the last several years, I have
gone to bed at night and purposelyhave talked about I want to have an
experience or dream about this an issue, and whether it be wanting my dad
(43:00):
to come back or some other event. I won't go into a whole lot
of details there, but I've actuallyasked or gone to sleep with the thought
of I want to go there nothing'sever occurred that's never been successful. Yes,
(43:20):
the first part is in place,you ask a question about something that's
relevant and what This is a techniquethat's been done throughout the world and all
kinds of cultures, and the commonthreat is that people engage in some form
of a ritual. Now, aritual is just another word for put in
some time, focus, attention,work it so that something in you or
(43:45):
the other side knows, oh,Larry is serious about it. So you
write down your question and make thequestion simple, one question at a time.
Please dream, show me something Ineed to know about this situation.
Mm hmm. And then maybe youmake a little drawing and you light a
candle and you do a prayer oryou do a meditation and and that together
(44:10):
that generates very often in a dream. And if it doesn't come at night
one, you just do it againor a third night. Then write it
down and work it. And thatthat is that is actually the helpful.
That's that's that is what across theworld seems to help people get a dream.
That that's helpful. Mm hmm.Going back to science for just a
(44:35):
quite quick second, do you thinkthat science will ever be able to come
up with an answer as to whythis occurs. Do you think there will
ever be a tangible scientific explanation asto how this concern occurs? Which,
which which part of this the dreamoccurs or why the why why the dream?
(45:00):
And what the dreams are telling us? Well, will we ever be
able to put the two pieces ofthe puzzle together? Do you think?
Because at the fundamental level it hasit comes to uh to a deep worldview
and uh and and science. Idon't think that science ever will will be
(45:22):
able to uh say God exists oruh after life exists, because there will
always be some explanation for for forfor any phenomenon. So that is why
science also will not be able totruly say why do we dream? What
is the purpose of dreaming? Theycan save memory formation and and and and
(45:45):
you needed for your brain to,uh to to refresh itself mhm, but
not not beyond that. I thinkthat comes more from our own experience.
Yeah, I gotcha. Well,getting on the light. You're an author,
You've you've written a book. Itis uh dream Guidance connecting to the
(46:08):
Soul through dream incubation. Tell usa little bit about the book. Well,
in the book, I really describethis old technique of dream incubation,
which is another word for asking thedream for guidance for any issue in your
life, vocation, relationship, health, creativity, or just fun. And
(46:29):
I described this five step process ofhow you really can do it and make
it, make it very practical withexamples, and that is in a nutshell,
what the book is about. Andit provides people with a with a
skill, a tool, and aperspective to do this for themselves, whether
they do it once once a week, once a year when they're stuck and
(46:52):
uh, that is uh just dreamguidance. Now you've you've traveled all over
the world, You've obviously studied manycultures, specifically African cultures and involving dreams.
Is the book a culmination of thestudies of the work you've done with
these other cultures. Yeah, I'mI'm i've uh uh. Yes, I
(47:15):
deeply draw from my experience in inuh in in these other cultures. And
I was born in South Africa andthat uh uh that's why I went back
to South Africa and work fifty locallocal healers and uh. And also their
their view of dreaming is very similarto my innate experience, so it was
(47:40):
easy to to merge those those myexperience and their their experience and improve on
on my insights that way. Well, I find your theories and your thoughts
extremely fascinating. Your work, yourwork with counseling, I'm sure it's been
a huge help with the and helpingothers deal with their issues. How can
(48:01):
people get a hold of you?The easiest is that my name Machew Clerk.
I think people can see it inthe screen Machew Clark dot com.
Then you go to my website andyou can see that I'm a psychotherapist.
And if you're interested that way,or go to the young platform j U
n G platform, and there aremany courses on union psychology, but especially
(48:24):
dreams and all kinds of dreamwork fromAfrican to Tibetan to Western dreamwork as ways
of finding meaning and purpose in one'slife. Excellent, excellent, And if
you'd like to know more about Michael, you can get him at w W
dot Michail Clerk dot com and youngplatform dot com are two ways to get
(48:49):
a home and check his book out. I do want to make a comment
here to remind everybody to check outmy websites at paranoralfbi dot com and Indian
Riverhauntings dot com. Now what we'reup to. Check us out also on
YouTube at Indian River Hauntings two threefour one. Check out the website here
at the x Zone at Paranormal stakeoutdot org. And I also want to
(49:13):
remind everybody check out some of thegreat program we got on the program at
XZBN dot net or x Zone RadioTV dot com to hear all of the
absolutely excellent radio shows out there.Micuel, if you had to leave us
today with a thought, everybody hasdreams. We really haven't even had time
(49:37):
to even scratch the surface on allthe types of dreams and what they mean.
But if you had to take amoment to share with my audience how
they should handle their dreams. Whatshould they do with their dreams? What
could their dreams accomplish for them?What would you tell our folks, Well,
(49:59):
dreams really have as the aim inthe realization of our own being.
Just like the rose he becomes arose, the human is filled with qualities,
talents, and wounds that manifest themselvesin life, and dreams help us
with the realization of dealing with ourwounds and the realization of our talents.
(50:21):
And we can proactively engage with thedream by asking a question and also take
into account that the dream has thetendency to talk in metaphors and in symbols.
So if you work with your dreamand you see a person in your
dream, you could ask the question, what do I associate to this person?
Oh, does neighbor Jack, whois neighbor Jack? Our neighbor Jack
(50:45):
is nosy? Or neighbor Jack isreally jealous? Ah, jealousy takes on
the form and shape of neighbor Jackand comes into my dream. What is
jealousy doing here? So you havean symbolic approach towards the dream figures and
for objects. People can ask thequestion, what is the function of What's
(51:07):
the function of car? What thecar brings me from A to B?
Moves me through life? Oh?I'm moving through life and I can't slam
And when I push on the brakes, nothing happens. I can't stop.
Oh do I do I get this? Do I not? This feeling?
Moving through life and I feel Icannot stop? And then see where in
(51:30):
life do you do you recognize this? And then you become more familiar.
So that is one really simple wayof also working with one's dreams and then
you'll see that they represent where youare in the territory of life and start
giving your also clues on how tomove further in the most optimal way.
(51:52):
Excellent answer, and once again,I think dreams are one of those things
that can open doors for us toonly see the other side, but maybe
even make ourselves better with Michael,I really appreciate you joining us tonight.
It's been a fascinating conversation. Andonce again, folks, you can get
a hold of him at Michael Clerkdot com or you own platform dot com.
(52:16):
And appreciate you being with us tonight. Once again, as I always
say, keep your family clothes,hug the kids, take good care of
yourselves until we meet again, seeyou on the other side. Have a
great night, folks,
Welcome to the Paranormal Stakeout Radio TVshow with Larry Lawson. As a former
career law enforcement officer and law enforcementeducator, Larry focuses on the use of
tried and true law enforcement investigated techniquesin conducting paranormal investigations. Despite his experience
and training, Larry also and keepsan open mind to discussions on topics that
(00:33):
deal with evidence that are not quiteas physical in nature. Paranormal Stakeout guests
are professionals in the field of theparanormal and parapsychology, conducting the investigations and
research needed to further the cause ofparanormal study. Larry advocates an agenda of
standardization of structure and training in thefield of paranormal investigation and research for the
(00:56):
purpose of one day being able toproduce the evidence needs to convince a jury
of the existence of the paranormal,whether it is ghosts, UFOs, unsolved
mysteries, hauntings, or cryptids.No topic is beyond the investigative reach of
Larry Lawson and the Paranormal Steakhout RadioTV show team. Now Here is the
(01:17):
host of the Paranormal Steakout Radio TVshow Larry Lawson. Hello everyone, and
(01:40):
welcome back to Paranormal Steakout, theplace where everything on the table is on
the table when it comes to theparanormal. I'm Larry laws and your host,
and I'm sure glad to be backwith you tonight. Want to take
a quick second to just let's keepour world in prayer tonight. There's a
lot going on and we're going tobe talking about some interesting things tonight,
but let's let's keep focused on whatthe reality is out there in the world
(02:04):
and say a prayer for all ofthose in need. If you'd like to
know a little bit more about mycrew, because we're coming to you from
the headquarters of the Florida Bureau ofParanormal Investigation, you can learn more about
us there at Paranormal FBI dot com. You can learn more about Indian River
Hauntings, which is my other organization, at Indie Riverhauntings dot com. You
(02:25):
can also find us on Facebook attwo three I'm sorry Indian River Hauntings two
three four one. You can emailme also at Gostky at Paranormal Steakout dot
org if you have questions that you'dlike to bring up or have me mentioned
here at the beginning of the show. Get a hold of me at that
at that email, and you canalways check out all of my shows at
(02:46):
paranormal steakout dot org. So welcomeback everybody. I've got a great guest
tonight, and it's it's interesting becauseyou know, I enjoy talking about the
mind, and I think tonight's topicis going to really really fit that.
Bill Michael Clark is a social entrepreneur, licensed mental health therapist, international speaker,
(03:07):
dream worker, and published author.He has been a mental health therapist
since two thousand and six and currentlyhas an online practice. He's fascinated by
healing traditions from about the world.He's earned his master's degree in Counseling Psychological
Counseling at pacifica Graduate Institute. Hehas traveled all over the world, studying
(03:29):
many cultures and their healing and dreamtraditions, and in specific the African traditions,
as South Africa is the country ofhis birth. He's also a published
author, publishing the book Dream Guidance. He's worked all over the world,
lectured all over the world, andalso has been involved with the Young Platform,
(03:49):
which is his I'm sorry the YoungSociety of Utah, which deals with
all of his work with dreams.So with that, Michael Clark, welcome
to the show. Thank you,Larry. It's a pleasure to be here
with you, and it's a pleasureto have you here. Such a resume
there, Sin it's hard, Itgot to get all of it in on
a quick second. But you've doneso much, and obviously dream work is
(04:13):
your passion. Is that a goodway to put it. Yeah, It's
really central to my passion and fascinationand I've studied it from all these traditions
and happy to engage in some conversationaround it. Let's talk. Tell us
a little bit about yourself. Howyou ended up going from counseling in the
world of psychology into dream work.Share with us how you ended up there.
(04:38):
Well, it really started early on. My dad died when I was
ten, and my family, myculture didn't know how to grief. So
I bottled up the grief and itbecame a cult territory around my soul.
And in my early twenties I startedreading Carl Jung, who gave me some
(04:59):
clue on how to to be withdreams, and then I really started having
a flood of dreams that helped meguide me to a sense of purpose,
but also reconnected me to to myfather, who lives further on the other
side. And so my life changedradically for the better because I started working
(05:21):
with dreams and I was so gratefulto it that I have been hanging on
ever since. What What are dreams? A kind of a maybe a silly
question, but I think it reallygoes the hardest. What are dreams?
Yes, well, let's start withthe experience of dream. When we are
(05:42):
in a dream, we experience tobe in a in an environment, in
a world where we actually interact withour with our environment, with the with
the dream monster or the figure,or in the we drive in a car.
And the other remarkable phenomenon is thatactually our mind is awake. We
(06:04):
are awake in the dream state.And so there you have three aspects of
a dream. You're in a world, it's not a movie you watch,
you're interacting, and you actually areawake. You just don't know you're in
a dream, otherwise you would belucid. That's to be aware in the
(06:24):
dream. So we're in another world, having an experience, and that is
what we know about a dream.And then even if you take it a
step further, when we open oureyes in the morning, that world doesn't
disappear. It just continues to coexistnext to our day to day experience,
(06:46):
and there remains an ongoing dance betweenus and the dream world. So we
have these day dreams or fantasies thatis just a dream world moving into our
day to day consciousness. And sothe dreams in this world are an interconnected,
are interconnected. Well, what you'retelling me is that this is not
(07:10):
just a an event in the mind, something that the mind is conjuring up.
You're you're actually saying, it's aparallel universe, a parallel world with
what we are dealing with while we'reawake. Is that how I'm hearing at
Yes, it's it's both a presentwhile we're awake as at night and in
the dream. Experientially, everyone cancan check it for themselves. You're in
(07:32):
a world, and no matter whereyou place this world, we feel to
be in the world. And thenin that dream world we meet both elements
of our personal mind that manifest assymbols, but we can also encounter or
disease. Love One spirit guides uhreal others, even other dreamers in this
(07:57):
in this in this world, andand we can do all kinds of things
in and with that world. Butyeah, that's what a dream is.
Einstein discusses in this general theory ofrelativity of different dimensions that sit parallel to
ours. Is this kind of whatyou're describing? Also? Is it a
(08:18):
different dimension? Because what I guesswhat it's hard to conceive is there's a
separate world that we existed, andthat's kind of what I'm hearing. So
is this a dimension as Einstein talkedabout it? Perhaps I think it's closer
to another dimension. We're right nowin a world, and when we go
to bed and we fall asleep,we're in another world, and we forget
(08:43):
all about the world we're in rightnow. We're in that other world having
an experience. Don't know that.We lay in our bed in the town
we've always lived or long time lived, and then we wake up and we're
here again. But we can move, and in this reality, we can
move into the other world, whichis coexisting. It's here, but it's
(09:07):
not as dense as this world.Then I'm just gonna use myself as an
example. I will dream a thedream will be vivid, but I'll wake
up I can't remember it. Yeah, But also that being the case,
when we dream again, why don'twe go back to that same world?
Why why is it different? Sotwo questions there, I'll let you choose
(09:31):
which one answer first. The firstone, as is that our short term
memory doesn't work at night, sothat is why we actually forget that we've
been in bed for six, seven, eight hours. But the mind is
awake all the time. So ourmind, at the core of our own
(09:54):
being is awake in this reality becausenow I am awake, But in the
dream, the same part that saysI am awake is also awake. It's
just having an experience in this inthis dream reality, and it forgets about
it because neurologically, it shows ourour short term memory doesn't function. But
(10:16):
for some reason, being in touchwith the other world seems not to be
helpful for our memory. So youhave to write down your dream upon waking
and go ahead. No, no, I've actually thought about doing that,
but I can never remember usually whatthat dream was before I can write it
down. So you can change Youcan change that by simply putting pen and
(10:39):
paper next to your bed before yougo to bed, you say, dream,
if you come tonight, I willwrite you down tomorrow, and then
you just do it, even ifyou have a feeling I feel tight in
my stomach. Oh, it feltlike I was being chased or whatever.
You write it down and then andthen the dream dream comes back. If
(11:03):
we did that. If I didthat, would I find that my notes
tonight will be an extension or acontinuation of my notes from the next night
that I dreamt, And That's whatI was getting at before. If it
were going to a world, thenwould we go back to that world?
Where do we go to a differentone? Uh? We Yes? Dreams
(11:24):
are a continuation of our life.It's like the tapestry of life is being
welln further in dreams. Dreams arepartially a world that is generated by our
own beliefs and experiences. So ifI have an experience today that in which
I feel like I'm really needing todo all kinds of things and I feel
(11:48):
not adequate, I might have aclassic dream tonight in which I'm running through
the university looking for my classroom.So dreams wake up on usually on the
day to day activities, and soit moves through what we experience there and
then we're here and then we andthen the dream is more of response to
(12:11):
what we experience today. Again,but people do have dreams in which they
visit the same house, the samelandscape, the same meet the same people.
So there seems to be also acontinuation in dream themes or dream experiences
that people have. And there aresome people that wake up in a dream
and then go to bed and justdream the dream. Further, Okay,
(12:37):
do dreams have a meaning? Iunderstand you're saying a separate world, but
do they also have a meaning?I uh, dreamings of flying being able
to fly, or the dreams thatyou're falling and you wake up before you
hit are their meanings to those typesof things? Well, it's it's a
(12:58):
it's a big question. It stretchesas far as is their meaning to this
reality, and you can answer itin several ways. But we can look
at the dream and extract meaning fromit. So we will probably dream about
falling if we have somebody experience inday to day life that we're having a
(13:22):
falling experience. Maybe I feel likeI'm falling in love or I'm not,
I feel like I fall off theCliff, then I might dream of falling,
and so you can see that thedreams represent emotional states, so they
become kind of psychological x rays thatshow what goes really on inside of me.
(13:48):
Now there are more dreams also,pre cognitive dreams or dreams in which
we meet ancestors. They're not necessarilyin We're going to get into that.
Trust me, I'm very anxious tohear more about that. But believe it
or not, our first section hereis just about over. So, folks,
I'm here with Michael Clerk talking aboutdreams. Tonight, stay with us.
We back right after these messages.We are back on paranormal stake out
(14:11):
my guest night, Michael Clerk.Fascinating subject and I pads of personal experiences
that really hit home with me onthis entire topic. But I'm a detective
by trade, Michael, I liketo figure out why some things, So
I want to ask you a coupleof questions before we delve into some of
these other things. Obviously, you'reyou're a well educated, well learned individual.
(14:35):
What what do the neurologists or theneuroscientists that study the brain, how
do their theories of dreams and howthe brain works coincide with your theories and
thoughts and how did you how didyou develop these theories for lack of a
better term, yeah, well,the theories are mainly based on my personal
(15:00):
experiences and that that leads leads tothem. Initially in neuroscience, the idea
was that it was completely random dreams. Then it shifted to it was chaos,
and it was a big shift becausechaos has an inherent structure in it.
It's not random nor meaningless. Sothe notion is that there is some
(15:26):
meaning formation happening in dreams. Otherelements that that neuroscience says is that dreams
are partly used for by the brainfor memory formation, so you uh start
and that has been tested as well. If you study for a test,
(15:48):
it's better to sleep on it becauseyour brain starts creating a stronger memory and
you will do better on the testthe next day than if you cramp till
the last second. It has todo with with emotional digestion of experiences.
So there it is. It ishelpful. And what neuroscience also has seen
(16:14):
is that when people don't dream ordon't sleep, they become psychotic, and
so steep and dreams appears to befundamental for a person's health. And then
of course my notions of uhuh,these parallel worlds, they don't truly get
reflected in in in neuroscience, butthey can see how how perception creates a
(16:41):
world and how actually your your yourperceptive abilities of generating worlds is active in
in dream and the neuro and thefrontal cortex is active and that could indicate
consciousness or have consciousness in dream.So you think part of this this process
(17:03):
is chemical or organic? Am Igetting that right? I think they don't
exclude each other. That okay?They they they they're on the spectrum.
It can be both in a chemicaluh aspect that at the same time as
a psychological or spiritual component. That'sthe next question. How do you see
(17:27):
the spiritual component coming into this?I mean, we've we've talked about the
parallel world. What else is outthere? What's causing us to see that
other world? What? What isanother world? Part of what is the
spiritual connection? And how do youthink it connects with the organic workings of
(17:48):
our brain? Does that make sense? Yes? A lot of questions in
one No, sorry, I theuh, the the dreaming consciousness is a
state of consciousness that is twenty fourseven present and uh, and and we
(18:10):
can access that state of consciousness,and we do that actually spontaneously very often.
If a person reads a book ona certain moment, if they're really
in the book, they see themselves, walk through the jungle in Vietnam,
they see the opponent, and theystart seeing a world around them. If
(18:32):
they also say, where is thatworld? Well, I actually see the
world around me. So that ishow where imagination comes in and starts generating
a world. And uh, andthat same mechanism happens when we fall asleep.
A world is generated and we experiencethat world as real and interacting that
(18:53):
world. And that's that's that's howwe have these experiences of this this coexisting
world. Have you had an experienceor an epiphany that shows that this isn't
just uh, the imagination maybe andit is a separate world? What how
(19:18):
do you how do you know thatthere's a second world? How do you
theorize as a second world? Yeah? Yeah, well you can you can
in dream? Uh. You canyou can in dream meet dream others and
ask them questions and then you seethat they're that they either whether it's an
uh a figure that they can tellyou things about yourself that you didn't know,
(19:45):
or that they can tell you thingsthat you can verify. So I
know of people that have met eachother in the dream and then did the
dream sign and that was then laterverified, or they or they would meet
uh deceased and Joanne that told themwhere they could find something of value in
the house where she lived. Andso those are very viable events. And
(20:11):
dreams can sometimes portray things that happenin the future that you can always say
that's your intuition. But then yeah, then you place your intuition really inside
yourself. Well, you didn't knowabout it, right, I was actually
going to ask you about prophetic dreams. This is the first of a bunch
of things I'd like to pick yourbrain about prophetic dreams where the people are
(20:33):
seeing the future. How do youperceive that's happening? Well, I don't
know. Have you ever had aprophetic dream? Larry me personally, not
that I'm aware, not that I'maware of Okay, Well, people have
had prophetic dreams that both are relativelysilly, Like I dream about that Uncle
(21:03):
Joe sends me a letter and thentwo days later there is the letter,
and I would why would the dreamtell me or things that that are about
to happen the the it's it appearsto be that something in us is moving
in a certain direction. So justlike the rose seat becomes a rose on
(21:26):
a certain moment, the psyche canpredict that this seat is going to grow
into a rose. So it's notthat the future is fixed and the dream
can tell you, oh, thisis for sure going to happen, but
based on the here and now,it can make a very accurate prediction on
the on the near future, oron the further future. And I've had
(21:48):
dreams, for example, with mygrandfather that I started having a dream that
first that I was in a churchfor a funeral and in the coffin there
was my grand father. Then acouple of months later, hers came to
the house and I had to helpmy grandfather into the hers. And then
again a couple of months later,my grandfather died. And I think those
(22:11):
were dreams that were anticipating predicting thedeath of my grandfather, you know.
And there's I just did a presentationand the folks that I talked to,
it's I told them, there's somany things that are out there that we
can't explain that keep happening, andthat's certainly one of them. I know
(22:33):
there's one, gentleman, I believe. I believe it was Richard Sennett had
told me a story once about howhe was involved in a case where he
talked to a person that remembered thishouse, and finally she kept driving by
and driving by and driving by.She's finally stopped and she knocked on the
door because she remembered that house,knocked on the door, and the people
that answered it recognized her from theirdreams. I believe it's how it was,
(22:57):
you know, I mean, howdo those things happen, especially when
it comes from from you know,folks that that that you trust. So
that's I've had dreams of my fatherthat are so real, and I'll be
honest with you. At the time, I passed them off as just the
memory, the emotional and the memory. And that's kind of what I was
driving at before. Where is thechemical, the organic part of this come
(23:19):
in? Because they were real.One was at my at my house as
I was growing up, which Icould easily pass off as just memory.
The second one wasn't that way itwas him in a different spot, but
him talking to me about it's everything'sall right kind of put and I that
(23:40):
dream has always stuck with me,and I've always wondered what the connection was.
Well, that that is a relativelycommon phenomena. So dreams could of
course portray uh, deceased people orloved ones as symbols. So I would
ask, but what do you associateto your father? Ow you was this
(24:03):
disciplined man that could speak up.And then maybe the quality shows up.
Other dreams have a different feeling downeto them and and and people those are
more visitation dreams where people really havethis sense this this very well could be
dead. And then uh, thecontent like you just described is very often
(24:26):
that they come and they have somesense of a message that I'm okay,
it's okay here, I love you, I care about you, Please live
your life on on on earth anduh and and that's an relatively common experience
(24:47):
for for people to have. Andand of course we can it begs the
question is this really a visitation ornot? And and it's hard to say
scientifically. And once in a while, and one of these ancestors says something
that can be verified, like,please tell your sister so and so and
(25:11):
or your sister is has in disease, or your sister is pregnant, or
the key to uh so and sois there in the house exactly. It's
almost as if a medium is sendingyou a message from the other side.
So let's talk about that for asecond. How do dreams connect if there's
(25:34):
another side, if there is aspirit world where our loved ones have gone
to after their death, how dohow does that all connect the dreams?
It seems that the length of thedead is is is a other manifestation of
another world, and that these worldsare not really as separate. So the
(25:57):
lent of the dead and the worldand this world are maybe all coexisting it
and continuum maybe like vibration, andthat the length of the death is a
higher vibration the length of dreams.And this is just very dense and so
in certain certain ways we can moveup and down and they can move up
(26:18):
and down. That's that's an explanationof why this could happen. And uh,
we're getting close for our next breakagain. But when we come back,
and I want you to kind ofchew on this one a little bit.
I want to talk about the possibilityof a collective consciousness and how all
this might come together to form thedreams or form these dimensions. I'd like
(26:42):
to hear your thoughts on that injust uh, in just a few minutes,
because fascinating subject that I just don'tthink we have all the answers to
yet. So stay with us,folks. We're about ready to take our
next break. When we get back, we're going to talk about the collect
to consciousness and its association with dreams. So stay with us. Way back
(27:03):
after these messages and we're back onparanorial stake out with my guest to night,
Michael Clark. Looking for Mike,Michael or is he's still with us?
I do not see him, Michael, are you with us? Well,
maybe the dream world took him awayagain. Hopefully we'll go work.
(27:29):
We'll work to get him back injust a couple of seconds. Ope,
there he is right there. Okay, he had me worried. I thought
maybe he went into the dream worldor something. Okay, we're back and
we're talking about the collective conscious Thisis a topic I've talked to many folks
on the show about as to youknow, how when spirits leave here where
(27:52):
they go do they do? Theyrecycle? And a common theme has been
there's just one giant, for lackof a better term, the way I
ualize it as the ball out there, which is where everything is. Your
thoughts, your feelings on that.And if you do agree with that or
you do look at things that way, how does the dream work connect there?
(28:14):
Good question? Or yeah, it'sthe You could say that there's just
one that everything has is just ofone substance, and then in the substance
there are different modifications of that substance, and then everything is in itself interconnected
(28:36):
and and and and there's no separation. And so then then the dream world
and the length of the death andnear death experiences are all happening within this
one I call it substance for forlack of better work, And they're all
happening in that one substance. Andand we can we can experience all these
(28:57):
things and and our our perceptions andthoughts and emotions they localize in time and
space, our unique experience with within. But it's in itself where we have
just an experience that generates time.But even that substance doesn't truly take place
(29:21):
in time like well, if this, if these questions were easy, somebody
would come up with the answers along time ago. So you talk,
I know, you talk a littlebit about spirit guides. How do spirit
guides assist? How do they getto us? Store do they use our
dreams to contact us ours? Howdoes spirit guides help us? And how
(29:45):
do they connect? They seem tolive in the world of dream. I
was once in a dream and Ibecame lucid. I realized that I was
in a dream, and then Ithought, oh, let me yell out.
Is there anyone with a message forme? And then I see my
youth hero, Yoan Kraf, asoccer player, fly to me, and
(30:07):
he comes to me and says,come, I'm gonna show you something.
So we fly together, and thenin the distance below there's a crossing and
he says, now, I'm gonnateach you how to cross a crossing in
the dream. I think that soundsa bit boring. I had expected something
more more interesting, but he says, you just have to go. You
(30:32):
go, and when you get anxious, you stop, but you don't go
back. And then when you're notanxious anymore, you go further and as
long until you get to the otherside. I wrote down the dream,
couldn't immediately make something from it.And then later the day I realized I'm
at a cross point in my life. I wanted to jump from the from
(30:53):
the clinic I worked to the privatepractice, but that was a financial risk
and will people come and well theyappreciate what I do? So I was
hesitant, and then I saw,oh, this dream figure and guiding figure
in the dream, they teach mehow to cross this crossing. Go just
(31:15):
don't go back, don't cave intoyour fear and jump back to the clinic.
Stay where you are, be okaywith being anxious, and then go
on. And so I did that, and when I was anxious, like
oh, will people call, etcetera, I would remember that and I
made it to the other side.In in sing people are so profoundly affected
(31:41):
by their dreams at times. Howdo we how do we seek this guidance
and understand and get this guidance throughour dreams? What other steps? Is
there a method, a process?Yeah, there's there's several ways people can
do this. It really starts withstart writing down the dreams, because spontaneously
(32:04):
Dreams come to people with help andguidance. Paul McCartney got the song Yesterday
in a dream. Stephen King writesparts of his book based on his dreams.
The largest oil field in uh InKuwait has been discovered because someone had
a dream on where to drill.So dreams proactively help people with any aspect
that's relevant to their life. Anduh so that is one that it happens
(32:30):
spontaneously and you have to write itdown because when we write it down,
we also signal back to the dreamI'm interested. If you come, I
will will write you down. Andthen step two is once you do that,
you can start talking to the dream. Can say, will dream,
I listen to Larry and Machhill today. It was a bit weird, but
(32:52):
I'm willing to test this hypothesis.And then you say, dream, what
is one way for me to lovemyself more deeply? Or what's one type
of food that is good for meto eat? Or ask something that is
really emotionally important to you. Youcould even be with a case you're you're
(33:13):
as a detective, what is thewhat should I know about this case?
And if it's really emotionally important toyou, it will the dream will very
often help you step further. Theyeven did some research at Harvard University around
it, and they saw that twothirds of the people that did this got
(33:34):
a dream that was helpful and onethird didn't. And then they looked at
what might cause the difference and thensaw that the people that asked a question
of medical nature or emotional relevance,they got a helpful dream. So that's
that's one way that people can nurturethis and even can test this tonight.
You don't have to believe in it. Just be open, ask a question
(33:57):
that's relevant and see what happens.It almost sounds like you're praying, Yeah,
would you just would you? Describedwould almost be like, you know,
Lord, you know, give mesome guidance in this area. Yeah,
yeah, very much. The oldnotion of a knock and uh,
(34:19):
you shall be opened and the fathergives good gifts to those that ask and
uh. It's in the same lineand with the with the with the notification
that the dream is not a wishfulfilling genie. If I ask what did
my neighbor have for dinner? Howcan I get a ferrari? It's not
(34:40):
likely that the dream will will respondto that. But if I ask a
question is relevant to my life?What's going on with me? Why am
I so upset with my partner?How can I grow my business and serve
other people? Just like in ain a in a good prayer, it's
better to pray for for goodness.Yeah, for goodness? Yeah, and
(35:02):
that's selfish things. Okay? Doyou interpret dreams? Also? Is that
part of what you what does andI mean we've all kind of take us
a little bit lighter now, we'veall had some crazy dreams flying. Yes,
is there a meaning to that?It depends also a little bit on
how people fly. Are they flyinglike Superman through the air? They are
(35:25):
they in the plane? That thatthat makes the difference. But you would
also often ask what is the experience? Oh, I was flying and I
felt so free? What what?What might that be about? Sometimes it
is people are blocked down and thenthey at night they have a different experience
(35:45):
of a different state of consciousness,it's way more free, and then they
can they get freedom into their dayto day life and feel a little bit
more free and have a different experience. So it's sometimes just almost dream alchemy.
You take your experience of freedom backhere. Other times people fly way
(36:06):
too high, and then that mightindicate that they're like Icarus a little bit,
flying too close to the sun.They're slightly inflated and they have to
come down. So there's not oneanswer, but you would look a little
bit at the experience and the context. So would this be almost like the
(36:28):
spirit guides trying to give you ahint to change? Would that be a
way to look at this, Yeah, it would be kind of a psychological
X ray showing that you're too high, or indeed giving you some something that
sometimes I've seen with people that aredepressed and then at once they fly in
the dream and it is light andit is delicious, and then they can
(36:52):
take some of that experience and infusethat into the excessive denseness of their day
to day life, so that thatthat that it's almost like you put two
fluids together and then some new substancecomes out of it. And that's that's
another way that dreams can help withpsychological transformation. And I won't tell you
(37:15):
some of the dreams I've had becausethis is a family show, but all
kidding aside, I mean I've hadI remember having dreams when I was younger,
I would be going to school,I have being my pajamas. Yeah,
I mean, I mean crazy thingslike that. And you know you've
always passed that off. It's justmaybe you ate something silly before you went
to better But it's not an uncommondream. And when we're not appropriately dressed
(37:40):
in public, it's very often thatwe're somehow not well prepared in our social
social engagement. Sometimes people find themselveshave naked in public or fully naked,
so they're way to exposed or theyfeel very vulnerable being in public. M
(38:00):
hm. And your theory is thisisn't so much your mind just trying to
straighten you out. This is trulythe other side giving you hints. Yeah
maybe yeah, it's it's something oreven something in your mind that is not
I So, whether it's the otherside or it's a normal self with with
(38:23):
you in it, that that helpsyou helps you further. So I do
believe there's a guiding principle in lifethat that guides in support and and it
and it does that in these ways. You ever see science coming in line
with these more spiritual theories? Andif you do, how do you think
(38:47):
that science will get how do youthink the two sides will come together.
Well, I think that science startsto start uh uh, there's a there's
a lot of science that that startsgetting close to lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming
(39:07):
is scientifically verified, and there ithelps helps see how is perception uh generated
And we see just in the dream, how you perceive to be in a
world that isn't really doesn't have anymaterial basis to it. And actually the
(39:29):
same form of perception is also laidover this world. So what we what
we perceive is really generated in ourselvesis painted over this world. So that
is that is more where where wherewhere the science comes? And you talk
about how to work a dream andhow to create a kind of a five
(39:52):
step method for effectively getting guidance,and you've talked about that a little bit.
Wow, what do people need towhat do you think people need to
do to be to take the seriously? To take these dreams seriously? I
mean for years, you know,you have dreams and a lot of people
(40:12):
just blow them off. I franklydidn't till I had these dreams about my
father that were so vivid and soreal. How should people learn to take
them? Take the guidance realistically,Well, I think what you what you
point out is until we have ourown experience of that this is helpful.
It remains a nice story and youcan take it or leave it. But
(40:37):
once you see that that dreams arereally practical and support it and can help
you in relationships, find a partner. I've started the company based on a
dream. Then and you notice that, then things change. So people that
are somewhat skeptical or anyone could starttonight and just do that five step process.
(41:05):
And one is take a question.Ask a question that is emotionally relevant
to you. So just ask yourselfwhat wants to be asked and it's like,
oh am I in the right relationship, that's a scary question, Or
how can I grow my business andserve others? Or it's one thing I
(41:27):
can do to love myself. Asksomething, write it down, create a
little ritual, prayer, light acandle, make a drawing, go to
bed, meditate on it, stepforward, sleep, and then in the
morning, write down the dream,even if you think it has nothing to
do with your question, and thenwork it a little. Half of your
dreams are pretty clear. The otherhalf you initially say has nothing to do
(41:52):
with my dream, then come backlater the day or read it to your
partner, and your partner might saysomething and you think, oh, my
gosh, yeah, now it makessense. And once you see oh,
this makes sense and I didn't knowthis, and this is really helpful,
then people connect to a sense ofguidance in their dream and then they have
(42:15):
a tool that can apply whenever theyfeel stuck or when I have some guidance,
and that can be u it canbe helpful. But yeah, that
makes sense. And unfortunately for me, I try to connect everything, Michael
with some sort of tangible, tangibleresult that I could put my fingers on.
(42:35):
It's the cop in me, youknow. I collect evidence. So
sometimes it's hard for me to graspthat I'm going to tell you something that
I really haven't told anybody. Butover the last several years, I have
gone to bed at night and purposelyhave talked about I want to have an
experience or dream about this an issue, and whether it be wanting my dad
(43:00):
to come back or some other event. I won't go into a whole lot
of details there, but I've actuallyasked or gone to sleep with the thought
of I want to go there nothing'sever occurred that's never been successful. Yes,
(43:20):
the first part is in place,you ask a question about something that's
relevant and what This is a techniquethat's been done throughout the world and all
kinds of cultures, and the commonthreat is that people engage in some form
of a ritual. Now, aritual is just another word for put in
some time, focus, attention,work it so that something in you or
(43:45):
the other side knows, oh,Larry is serious about it. So you
write down your question and make thequestion simple, one question at a time.
Please dream, show me something Ineed to know about this situation.
Mm hmm. And then maybe youmake a little drawing and you light a
candle and you do a prayer oryou do a meditation and and that together
(44:10):
that generates very often in a dream. And if it doesn't come at night
one, you just do it againor a third night. Then write it
down and work it. And thatthat is that is actually the helpful.
That's that's that is what across theworld seems to help people get a dream.
That that's helpful. Mm hmm.Going back to science for just a
(44:35):
quite quick second, do you thinkthat science will ever be able to come
up with an answer as to whythis occurs. Do you think there will
ever be a tangible scientific explanation asto how this concern occurs? Which,
which which part of this the dreamoccurs or why the why why the dream?
(45:00):
And what the dreams are telling us? Well, will we ever be
able to put the two pieces ofthe puzzle together? Do you think?
Because at the fundamental level it hasit comes to uh to a deep worldview
and uh and and science. Idon't think that science ever will will be
(45:22):
able to uh say God exists oruh after life exists, because there will
always be some explanation for for forfor any phenomenon. So that is why
science also will not be able totruly say why do we dream? What
is the purpose of dreaming? Theycan save memory formation and and and and
(45:45):
you needed for your brain to,uh to to refresh itself mhm, but
not not beyond that. I thinkthat comes more from our own experience.
Yeah, I gotcha. Well,getting on the light. You're an author,
You've you've written a book. Itis uh dream Guidance connecting to the
(46:08):
Soul through dream incubation. Tell usa little bit about the book. Well,
in the book, I really describethis old technique of dream incubation,
which is another word for asking thedream for guidance for any issue in your
life, vocation, relationship, health, creativity, or just fun. And
(46:29):
I described this five step process ofhow you really can do it and make
it, make it very practical withexamples, and that is in a nutshell,
what the book is about. Andit provides people with a with a
skill, a tool, and aperspective to do this for themselves, whether
they do it once once a week, once a year when they're stuck and
(46:52):
uh, that is uh just dreamguidance. Now you've you've traveled all over
the world, You've obviously studied manycultures, specifically African cultures and involving dreams.
Is the book a culmination of thestudies of the work you've done with
these other cultures. Yeah, I'mI'm i've uh uh. Yes, I
(47:15):
deeply draw from my experience in inuh in in these other cultures. And
I was born in South Africa andthat uh uh that's why I went back
to South Africa and work fifty locallocal healers and uh. And also their
their view of dreaming is very similarto my innate experience, so it was
(47:40):
easy to to merge those those myexperience and their their experience and improve on
on my insights that way. Well, I find your theories and your thoughts
extremely fascinating. Your work, yourwork with counseling, I'm sure it's been
a huge help with the and helpingothers deal with their issues. How can
(48:01):
people get a hold of you?The easiest is that my name Machew Clerk.
I think people can see it inthe screen Machew Clark dot com.
Then you go to my website andyou can see that I'm a psychotherapist.
And if you're interested that way,or go to the young platform j U
n G platform, and there aremany courses on union psychology, but especially
(48:24):
dreams and all kinds of dreamwork fromAfrican to Tibetan to Western dreamwork as ways
of finding meaning and purpose in one'slife. Excellent, excellent, And if
you'd like to know more about Michael, you can get him at w W
dot Michail Clerk dot com and youngplatform dot com are two ways to get
(48:49):
a home and check his book out. I do want to make a comment
here to remind everybody to check outmy websites at paranoralfbi dot com and Indian
Riverhauntings dot com. Now what we'reup to. Check us out also on
YouTube at Indian River Hauntings two threefour one. Check out the website here
at the x Zone at Paranormal stakeoutdot org. And I also want to
(49:13):
remind everybody check out some of thegreat program we got on the program at
XZBN dot net or x Zone RadioTV dot com to hear all of the
absolutely excellent radio shows out there.Micuel, if you had to leave us
today with a thought, everybody hasdreams. We really haven't even had time
(49:37):
to even scratch the surface on allthe types of dreams and what they mean.
But if you had to take amoment to share with my audience how
they should handle their dreams. Whatshould they do with their dreams? What
could their dreams accomplish for them?What would you tell our folks, Well,
(49:59):
dreams really have as the aim inthe realization of our own being.
Just like the rose he becomes arose, the human is filled with qualities,
talents, and wounds that manifest themselvesin life, and dreams help us
with the realization of dealing with ourwounds and the realization of our talents.
(50:21):
And we can proactively engage with thedream by asking a question and also take
into account that the dream has thetendency to talk in metaphors and in symbols.
So if you work with your dreamand you see a person in your
dream, you could ask the question, what do I associate to this person?
Oh, does neighbor Jack, whois neighbor Jack? Our neighbor Jack
(50:45):
is nosy? Or neighbor Jack isreally jealous? Ah, jealousy takes on
the form and shape of neighbor Jackand comes into my dream. What is
jealousy doing here? So you havean symbolic approach towards the dream figures and
for objects. People can ask thequestion, what is the function of What's
(51:07):
the function of car? What thecar brings me from A to B?
Moves me through life? Oh?I'm moving through life and I can't slam
And when I push on the brakes, nothing happens. I can't stop.
Oh do I do I get this? Do I not? This feeling?
Moving through life and I feel Icannot stop? And then see where in
(51:30):
life do you do you recognize this? And then you become more familiar.
So that is one really simple wayof also working with one's dreams and then
you'll see that they represent where youare in the territory of life and start
giving your also clues on how tomove further in the most optimal way.
(51:52):
Excellent answer, and once again,I think dreams are one of those things
that can open doors for us toonly see the other side, but maybe
even make ourselves better with Michael,I really appreciate you joining us tonight.
It's been a fascinating conversation. Andonce again, folks, you can get
a hold of him at Michael Clerkdot com or you own platform dot com.
(52:16):
And appreciate you being with us tonight. Once again, as I always
say, keep your family clothes,hug the kids, take good care of
yourselves until we meet again, seeyou on the other side. Have a
great night, folks,
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