December 15, 2023 • 53 mins
Pat O’Connell is a communications consultant for high-tech corporations in fields as varied as nuclear power, aerospace, and antibody library solutions. She is also a researcher, novelist, and nonfiction author with eclectic interests, from science and medicine, to history and psychology, to metaphysics and the paranormal. And she helps individual clients manifest their own book publication dreams. Through it all, she remains an activist for truth and freedom.
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Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/paranormal-stakeout-radio-tv-show-with-larry-lawson--3135813/support.
Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Despite his experience and training, Larryalso and keeps an open mind to discussions
on topics that deal with evidence thatare not quite as physical in nature.
Paranormal Stakeout guests are professionals in thefield of the paranormal and parapsychology, conducting
the investigations and research needed to furtherthe cause of paranormal study. Larry advocates
(00:22):
an agenda of standardization of structure andtraining in the field of paranormal investigation and
research for the purpose of one daybeing able to produce the evidence needed to
convince a jury of the existence ofthe paranormal. Whether it is ghosts,
UFOs, unsolved mysteries, hauntings,or cryptids, no topic is beyond the
(00:42):
investigative reach of Larry Lawson and theParanormal Stakeout Radio TV show team. Now
Here is the host of the ParanormalStakeout Radio TV show, Larry Lawson.
(01:11):
Hello everyone, and welcome back toParanormal Stakeout. For those of you that
are joining us for the first time, my name is Larry Lawson. I'm
the host of this show, comingto you from Vero Beach, Florida,
the home office of the Florida BeYour Paranoral Investigation and Indian River Hauntings.
If you're ever interested in checking usout, I'll bet you can go to
our website at Indian River Hauntings dotcom. You can also check us out
(01:34):
on Facebook at Florida Be Your ParanormalInvestigation and Indian River Hauntings and our YouTube
channel at Indian River Hauntings two threefour one if you want to see what
else that we're up to out there, but really glad to have everybody back
tonight. You know, we coverall kinds of subjects here in Paranormal Steakout.
It's not just ghosts, but it'sanything outside the norms of science,
(01:57):
and tonight bringing to you a compelling, very interesting and compelling story. My
guest is Padd O'Connell. She isa communications consultant for many high tech corporations
and in varied fields such as nuclearpower, aerospace, antibody, library solutions.
She's a researcher, a novelist,an author. She's involved in all
(02:21):
kinds of things, and she's alsoa paranormal investigator. And I'm really really
happy to have with us tonight,Patt O'Connell. So Pat Welcome to Paranormal
Stakeout. Thanks Larry, it's goodto be here. Thank you for inviting
me. Well, it's You've gotsuch an interesting story and I'd like to
get into that. But before wedo that, I'd like my audience to
(02:43):
learn a little bit about who paddO'Connell is and in and in addition,
your brother, I want to heara little bit about Jimmy, So share
with us if you would. Well, you know, you think I'm more
special than I think I am,But you know I'm I've been a writer
and a communications consultant for over thirtyyears, doing marketing and training and you
(03:08):
know, all kinds of technical thingsand websites and even process development, helping
people. It used to be calleduh efficiency experts, you know, making
making your untangling your systems and makingthem work more efficiently. My daughter is
(03:30):
now doing basically the same thing aswhat you call a scrum master now uh
in software, So uh, youknow, kind of pass that down a
little bit. But you know,and I I I'm a skeptic. I'm
a skeptic, but I am thegood kind of skeptic. I am open
to uh evidence, and I'm nota pushover. But I am open minded
(03:53):
to all kinds of possibilities, andI'm fascinated with the idea. You know,
your your researching ghosts. I've doneghost hunts. But then you know,
the skeptic in made debunks some ofthe things that I some of the
evidence, the evidence that I allegedlycollected and right, But the whole point
(04:13):
of doing that to me is toget rid of the garbage so that the
real mysteries pop out in great relief. So I'm looking for the real mysteries,
and I that's why I love thisstory that Jim got me involved in.
And how did you get involved inthe paranormal? What? What got
(04:34):
you besides than Jim any past experiences. We grew up with parents that were
open to all kinds of things.I mean, we used to watch uh
it was a Darren McGavin show,a TV nightstalker, right, it was
so campy and goofy, but weloved it. And you know, in
(04:55):
the Great the first Great Northeast Blackoutin nineteen sixty five, we were living
in a house that was two hundredand seventy years old, and so,
I mean it had a lot ofhistory from the early days. It was
an old inn on the Boston postRoad, and the Marquis de Lafayette and
(05:15):
Benjamin Franklin had been at our house, so you know, we had there
was all kinds of history there,so everybody kind of gathered at our house.
We had this big job. Wehad actually several giant fireplaces, and
so we had a big fire goingin the den and we were listening to
transistor radio and one of our friends, one of my brothers and my friends
from high school, came in,as all of the kids in the neighborhood
(05:40):
did. They just came in likeit was their house. And he said
he had seen a UFO that night, and I had forgotten about that till
Jimmy mentioned it, and that remindedJimmy that he had an My brother was
an experiencer, he was an abductee, and Jimmy's Jimmy, Jimmy's my he
was my youngest brother. And sotalking about this, uh, you know,
(06:06):
remembering the blackout he and remembering thatour friend had seen the UFO made
him start thinking about the fact thathe might have had his first encounter,
his first abduction, not that year, but maybe a couple of years later
(06:27):
when he was still a kid,because he just kind of disappeared from my
mother had sent him over to thestore. It was like two houses away,
and he didn't come back for hoursand hours, and he didn't know
where he'd been. Well, well, let's see, let's back up,
just let's back up just a littlebit. You you had kids that were
at your house. One of thefriends said, they saw UFO. How
did that involve Jimmy? How did? I'm not sure? Well it did.
(06:53):
When Jimmy and I were talking aboutthe blackout, we were recalling the
blackout and how much fun with thatnight, and he said, remember when
Pete said on the way over hehad seen a UFO in about the same
place that my brother, actually,my two youngest brothers had seen their first
UFOs over the store, over thegrocery store. So that just kind of
(07:15):
Jimmy had come. For years andyears, he thought he was just having
these really vivid dreams, until oneday somebody said, have you ever thought
that they might be dreams? Sohe was dreaming about, you know,
having these abduction kind of dreams,but he never allowed himself to consider that
they were real until this friend hadmentioned it and when he started looking at
(07:40):
it from that perspective, he foundout that his wife was also having experiences
on the same nights he was havingthese abduction dreams or these abduction experiences,
and you know, she would shesmelled a certain smell that actually Jimmy was.
Jimmy got on the phone with WhitleyStreever in nineteen ninety one, the
(08:03):
year of the big solar eclipse thatthere were all the multiple sightings over Mexico
City. I don't know if youremember that or maybe I'm maybe you're too
young for that, but there wasthis TV show and you could call in,
and Whitley happened to be a gueston it. And Whitley, I'm
(08:24):
sure your audience knows, is oneof the probably the most famous abductee,
the author of the Communion books andall that. And so Jimmy called in
and was talking about his wife havingthis experience, and Whitley confirmed it.
But he was a little uncomfortable becauseit was one of those things that it's
(08:46):
like and you, being a formallaw enforcement officer, sometimes you withhold pieces
of evidence because only the perpetrator willknow, or only somebody on the inside
will know. And to me askwhat Lee a question on this TV show
And Whitley was kind of uncomfortable aboutit, and he said, yeah,
we don't talk about that, andit was nothing big, but it was
(09:09):
just something to confirm that other familiesare having that same experience where the partner
who's not being abducted experiences other things. I mean, one morning, my
sister in law was making the bedand the bed was full of leaves,
and you know, she's like,Okay, I don't know how this happens,
(09:31):
but yeah, okay, so he'shad these experiences. He spoke with
Whitley Streeber. What happened after that, Well, you know, after that,
I think he started seriously accepting thereality of the abduction. And then
he realized that there were millions ofother people who had the same experience and
(09:58):
didn't have any acknowledgement, didn't haveany respect that you know, it tore
their lives apart in some cases.So he started talking to people, and
you know, he connected with themall over the world on Facebook and other
social media. And so that's whenhe decided he wanted to create a TV
(10:22):
show, a reality show that wouldtell these people's story, and he said
he would get really frustrated because hesaid, everybody wants to know, how
is this different from other UFO stories, And he said, it's not about
the vehicles. If somebody famous showedup at your door, you're not going
to say, oh hi, it'snice to see you. Let me go
look at your car. You know. So he wanted to do a show
(10:46):
that told the abductees' stories and gavethem credibility and compassion, and so he
was, oh gosh, doing that. I don't know, probably twenty ten
or earlier than that. I meantwenty two thousand and five, it could
(11:07):
have been earlier than that. Ican't remember exactly when he started very seriously
developing the story and seeking funding frominvestors and learning all about, you know,
the media business, which is abig mess of politics and drama.
(11:28):
And you know, he went throughseveral fall starts with investors who then sabotaged
the thing or wanted it to besomething else. And I'm sure anybody who's
ever done this has experienced those kindsof issues. Okay, so he's and
from one innerstand too. He beganto he attended a couple of conferences and
(11:50):
started seeing people that he had actuallyseen during his abduction dreams, for lack
of a better word, Yes,and he saw he like, he talked
to one woman that was describing anevent where she was abducted. She saw
a man in the ship, anotherhuman in the ship where she was had
(12:18):
been abducted and was being you know, you know, tested or whatever they
were doing to her. And youknow, he had only spoken to her
on the phone, and they wereboth supposed to go to a UFO conference
and he did. He went toall these conferences and when he ran into
her, he didn't recognize her,but she recognized him. She said,
(12:43):
it's you. You're the guy thatwas in the ship when I was abducted.
So she yeah, So so thatwas really interesting. Well, we're
about ready to come up on ournext break, and we've heard a lot
about your brother, Jimmy. ButJimmy actually he turned you on to a
story that you began to research andget involved in with yourself. And that's
(13:05):
a guy by the name of ClayClay Wheeler. Wheeler, Right, So
what Jimmy just called you one dayand said, hey, you got to
check this out, right, hecalled me. It was in twenty early
twenty fifteen, and he said,you know, I've got I've got this
case and it's in Texas. Andnow Jimmy was in Connecticut, uh,
(13:28):
and I'm here in Texas and hesaid, this guy's story is so much
bigger than I can do in aone hour TV show or even a multiple
episode arc. H And would yoube interested in first checking him out,
you know, meeting with him andvetting him, make sure he's not you
(13:48):
know, out there crazy. Well, we got to take our first break
now, so when we get back, let's start talking about Clay Wheeler.
So stay with us, folks.More to come on Paranormal Stakeout. We'll
be back after these messages. Whetheryou're a skeptic or a believer, join
(14:18):
me Rob McConnell on the X ZoneRadio Show as together we will investigate the
world of the paranormal and the scienceof parapsychology. Join me and my special
guests from around the world each andevery night as we investigate UFOs, ghosts,
psychics, Bigfoot conspiracies, and muchmuch more. Dare to Believe and
Dare to be Heard on the XZone Radio Show with Rob McConnell Monday through
(14:41):
Friday at eleven PM on your hometownradio, Classic twelve twenty Classic twelve twenty
dot CA. And we are backwith my guest author and researcher Patt O'Connell,
and I'm going to get into thiskind of an interesting story here now.
Just to rehash a little bit,your brother Jim, who's no longer
(15:01):
with us, I understand, beganbegan to work with folks that were abductees,
even started a show to allow themto spread their story, or at
least share their story. And hecame across this guy that he contacted you
about being an author, and hisname is Clay Wheeler, and the story
(15:22):
was bigger than he could tell.So with that, tell us more.
Well, that's right, and hesaid basically this this guy has had all
kinds of experiences, not just UFOsand aliens, but a lot more.
And your audience is probably most similar, most familiar with Skinwalker Ranch. So
there was you know, a mixof UFOs and aliens and ghosts and Poultergeist
(15:50):
and orbs and inner dimensional portals andyou name it. So this actually goes
back to more like the original skinWalker story, not the one that we're
seeing on TV with all the technology, and so that's what happened. And
he said, he said, so, would you be interested in in vetting
this guy? Make sure before Icome down to Texas to film him and
(16:15):
you know, see what's going on. Would you check him out? And
if you think he's the real deal, would you be interested in writing a
book or multiple books, or ascreenplay or all of the above. And
I'm like, sure, that soundsreally interesting. And then he said,
the guy says, claims that hehas shot and buried an alien out there,
(16:36):
and I'm like, my eyes buggedout, and I'm like, okay,
I'm in. So, you know, it turns out, you know,
this guy is a was a anaircraft repair technician. He had his
own business in this little bitty airportin the middle of nowhere. I mean,
complete rural country, no nobody around. I mean, it's not like
(17:03):
any airport you've ever imagined. It'sjust basically a landing strip in a couple
of buildings. Which state was thisin? This is in Texas? In
Texas? Okay? Yeah? Andso this guy, you know, he
owned a hangar, but the hangarhad an apartment. He had built an
apartment on the other end of thehangar building and in the middle there was
(17:23):
his office. So all of thisstuff happened at or around the airport,
and he was seeing UFOs, hewas seeing aliens, he saw held events
(17:45):
where he lost his keys and showedthey showed up in the ceiling and the
rafters of the hangar. Now youknow what a hanger looks like. It's
like thirty feet up and how doyou get how do you lose your keys
up? There was he telling?Was he telling you the story? Or
(18:07):
was this coming from Jimmy right now? No, this was well, Jimmy
kind of gave me this the snapshotof the breadth of the craziness. And
then I got in touch with Clayand I started learning all about what had
gone on. And he was justlike a pinball machine at first, just
(18:29):
so happy to have somebody listen tohim that didn't dismiss him and say you're
crazy. Who really wanted to know? And I wanted you know you and
I were talking about I'm a skeptic, but I'm open minded, and so
when I investigate something, I'm tryingto sort the wheat from the chaff.
(18:49):
In a way, I want toget the garbage out of the way so
that I can really focus on truemysteries and try to understand. So that's
what I wanted to do with him. And he had a lot of stories.
There were some things that he experienced. You know, he had pictures
of rods, what people call rodsor skyfish, and I'm sure you've heard
(19:11):
of that, and it's really amisunderstanding. It's a you know, your
camera shutter speed is too slow tofreeze the movement of the wings of bugs,
like a moth or something in thedark, and so it looks like
a flying worm with a bunch ofwings. And so, you know,
I wanted to debunk some of thesethings with him so that when people heard
(19:36):
his story, they were going tobelieve what he saw and what he describes
to them that they can't. They'renot going to just dismiss some of this
stuff as you know, misinterpretations orwhatever. So you know, we went
through when I started working with him, we corresponded, we talked on the
(19:57):
phone, and he sent me awhole bunch of pictures. Now, when
Jimmy first told me about this,he said, you know, this guy
has all this evidence. While Iwas, you know, salivating to see
this evidence well, it turns outthat a lot of his photos were blurry
or it was a dot in thesky and you couldn't really tell what it
(20:18):
was. And then the things thathe saw up close, he didn't get
a chance to take a picture upor he tried to take a picture and
it was dark, so all hegot was dark and dark. And you
know, a lot of the evidenceI had to end up disregarding because I
ultimately believed he experienced some of somereally extraordinary things. So at a certain
(20:49):
point I started telling him, forgetabout your pictures. Forget about But there
were a few things that were thatare interesting. But for the most part,
just tell me what you experienced withyour own eyes, not through a
camera and not through a scope,not through uh you know whatever, night
(21:10):
vision goggles or whatever. Let meask you this real quick. You weren't
happy with the evidence, and Iunderstand it. This is in Texas and
I and I understand your concerned aboutit, letting the exact spot out,
so I won't. I won't askyou about that so much. But what
about him then made you believe himwith the lack of evidence? What about
(21:32):
him caused you to think he wasreal? There were a lot of things.
And really, kind of the lastchapter of the book, I go
through trying kind of my my skepticslogic, could it have could it have
been hallucinations? Could it have beenthis? Could it have been that?
But there's always a butt I couldn'tI couldn't explain it all away. And
(21:55):
really, when it came down toit, if you would look at him
when he was talking about his experiences, and I have one clip from an
interview where he's sitting in a lawnchair with a runway behind him, and
I asked him, overall, wasthis a negative or a positive experience?
(22:17):
And he said, well, yeah, I'd have to I'd have to say
it was a negative experience because hehad gotten sicker and sicker and sicker throughout
the course of this experience. Andyou know, I can kind of explain
some of that, but he youknow, he said, I guess overall
it was a negative experience. Butimmediately his whole manner changed and he just
(22:41):
kind of looked up and he said, but you know, it was it
was exhilarating. It was like livingin the Sci Fi channel every night looking
up at the sky and seeing theseships and so you could tell the it
just he believed it so deeply thatI believed it. I believed him.
(23:07):
And as much as I tried todismiss some of the some of the things
that he claimed that happened or thathe saw, there was always a piece
that I couldn't explain away. Sofor me, this is still an open
case. I mean, I feellike there's so much. I mean,
(23:30):
we've got we've got a team,and we can talk about that later,
but we want to go out thereand for example, test for toxic gases
or is there something in the waterthat could have poisoned people in that area,
Because people were experienced, not justhim, people who worked at his
(23:52):
shop, his wife, people wholived in the area were having strange experiences.
They were also seeing craft, soit wasn't just him. But the
skeptic in me wants to think,is there a prosaic explanation? Was there
some kind of toxin in the water? And that's an excellent direction to go
(24:12):
on. But what did he see? You've talked about seeing things, but
what right did he see? Well, he saw all kinds of UFOs from
the I think the first one hesaw was like a pork pie hat.
It was silver, kind of likea pie plate. He saw classic he
called the Mexican hat saucers. Hesaw an orb that he said was like
(24:37):
a soap bubble, a giant soapbubble. And there was this one craft,
and he drew some sketches of thevarious craft that he had seen.
There were egg shaped craft, therewere some that looked like what Kenneth Arnold
drew. The Kenneth Arnold, thepilot who first he didn't really coin the
(24:57):
term flying saucers, but he saidwhat he saw of these ships over Mountaineer,
I think he said they moved likesaucers skipping on water. But when
he drew them, they didn't looklike our classic flying saucers. They were
like a disc with a something onthe back. So Clay saw those.
And then there was this other craft. He said it looked like a hardshell
(25:21):
eyeglass case. And that one showedup on a couple of occasions. The
first time it gave him, hecalled it the headache beam. He said
it felt like a bucket of warmwater was poured into him, and then
after that he got this horrible headache, and you know, but he his
friends were concerned that they were tryingto kill him. He thought they were
(25:42):
trying to communicate with him. Hesaid, it's he said, I think
it's like what a computer must feellike when it's downloading data. And I
thought that is such a cool conceptthat he would, you know, humanized.
Yeah. Yeah, how many people? You said, other people there
(26:03):
saw it? Saw these events?Right? If you could? And there
were employees of his people that workedat the airport. Was was there very?
Was there a very I know you'vesaid it's out in the middle of
nowhere, but was there a townnear there? Yeah, there's a small
town, very small town. Howmany How many people do you how many
people did have you been able toidentify that experienced things? If you could
(26:25):
put a general number on it outthere? Yeah? Well, his his
mom, Clay, his mom.I have not tracked down his wife,
his ex wife yet. We talkedto a friend of his who who was
involved in some of these things anddid see some of the stuff. Now
(26:47):
he thought, and we can talkabout this. He thought it was demonic,
not aliens, and he thought allof it was a manifestation of demonic
forces. That's something I'd like toI would like to delve in there.
Now we're getting ready to take ournext break, but just kind of set
up our What we want I wantto talk about this next session is was
(27:11):
he ever abducted? Did he eversee aliens? What was his experiences with
those aliens? Also, how dideverybody come together? Your brother Clay and
not only your brothers not with us. I understand Clay is also passed on
also, Yes, so you know, I'd like to chat about all of
that when we come back after thisbreak. So, folks, lots of
(27:33):
things to talk about Clay Wheeler andhis UFO abduction experiences, So stay with
us. We'll be back right afterthese messages. Welcome back everybody with my
guest night, Pat O'Connell sharing withus a very fascinating story. So your
brother who has experiences gets a wholeof you asked you to check out this
guy, Clay Walker, that hadan experience that he'd like to feature on
(27:56):
the production that he's doing for television. You go out there, you interview
him, you start getting some information. I've got to tell you, I'm
impressed with the fact that you willwant to get out there test the soil,
test water, find logical answers forthis because some fascinating stories, and
I don't doubt that you believe him, but right now we don't have any
(28:18):
evidence. But now he started alsotalking to you about actually seeing aliens,
possibly being abducted. So pick itup there and share with us what happened,
what he saw, what he experienced. Right Well, just to back
up a little bit, there werethese behavior changes, and this is how
the demonic forces or this demonic conceptcame in. And it seemed like everybody
(28:42):
who would he said, his employees, when they clock in at the airport,
they would their personality would go dark. And the one who was most
affected apparently by it, was hiswife. And there were several occasions where
her personality completely went dark, tothe point where he felt that she was
(29:04):
she was a victim of some kindof demonic possession. So the first occasion
was they had had a fight andhe went out to her truck she was
leaving, and she slammed his handin the door and then dragged him from
the truck for like a mile anda half, and he ended up with
(29:26):
broken ribs and two broken arms anda broken leg, and you know,
abrasions ended up in the hospital anyway, And then another time she woke up
she looked like she was eight monthspregnant, and he, first of all
was scared to death for her,because what can cause a bump on your
belly this big? What kind ofyou know? Could it? She had
(29:48):
been bitten by something or whatever,and he wanted to get her to the
hospital, but she she was eatingraw meat out of the refrigerator, and
he said her voice got really deep. And that day that she woke up
looking pregnant, he tried to gether to try to convince her to go
(30:08):
to the hospital, and she wouldn'tgo and ended up kicking him in the
head. Not he fell down,hit his head and he was knocked out
for a while. When he cameto, she was gone, and when
she came back several hours later,it was gone. So that was the
second thing. And then the thirdthing was that she he had said,
(30:30):
you need to go move and gostay with your sister because this place is
affecting you. This is not goodfor you, it's not good for anybody.
And so she showed so she wasgone, staying with her sister.
But she showed up at the airportone day and started with a thirty eight
thirty eight special gun and started shootingeverybody, and fortunately she didn't hit anybody,
(30:55):
but she ended up being arrested.And after that he got divorced.
So now to answer to answer yourquestion, now he's living there by himself,
and that's when he started seeing aliens. The first time happened, it
was the middle of the night.He woke up. It was three o'clock
in the morning and he couldn't sleep, and he thought, well, I'll
just call my sister, because shewas working in China at the time,
(31:19):
so it's the middle of the dayfor her. So he calls and he's
chatting with her, and he's justkind of pacing around the living room and
just visioning. And he goes andhe reaches for the door that goes from
his apartment into the office that's betweenthe apartment and the hangar, and he
opens the door and on his leftthere are two little gray aliens. And
(31:41):
he said, all of this happenedin a few seconds, but it just
etched in his mind. He said, he opened the door, and he
said, these two aliens moved outof the way as if they were like
a gate on a hinge, youknow. And he thought that that was
really weird to me. Was oneof those weird things that who would make
(32:02):
that up? You know, ifyou're if you're lying or you're hallucinating,
where do you get that? Soand then so he looked the alien,
the two little aliens, and thenthen he looks over to his right and
there's this tall alien who was tanskin and he said, he was naked,
(32:22):
but he had no features. Soit was like a ken doll.
It was a blank slate. Theeyes were huge, the lids top and
bottom had bulges in the back ofthe head. And he said, and
this thing lunged toward him, andhe said he knew right away this was
the bodyguard for the two little guys. And when this thing lunged toward him,
(32:44):
he freaked out, backed out,closed the door, and dropped the
phone. Well, I found outlater his sister said he actually said gotta
go. And I don't know whetherhe canceled the car, you know,
ended the caller or she did,but whatever it was, So that was
his first encounter with aliens. Didhe did he say anything over the phone
(33:07):
to his sister? Did he snapa picture with the cell phone? Do
we have any nothing. And that'sthe problem book you have with the UFO
side as well as I do withthe GOT side. We don't have those
pictures when we have the stories,and it makes it very tough to prove
it well. And this was intwenty ten. He was not the most
(33:31):
technically leading edge guy. I mean, he could do anything with gears and
machines, but not so much withcomputers. So he had just a little
old flip flip phone, so youknow, in those days, the screen
was like the size of a postagestamp and he you know, he wouldn't
even have thought of it at thetime anyway. So that was his first
(33:55):
encounter with aliens. And then therewere other there were other creatures may or
may not have been aliens, wedon't know. There's an interdimensional portal portal
which is similar to the the whatthe Skinwalker Ranch story, uh, And
that's that's a whole other thing.But then he he started seeing these little
(34:19):
gray aliens in the hangar. Andthe first one that he saw, uh,
he and his secretary were in thein the hangar late one night.
Everybody else was gone, and theythought it was a kid in the hangar.
And so they're trying to find thekid, because this is in the
middle of nowhere. If there's achild who's in this hangar and there's no
adults looking for him, this isa serious problem. So, uh,
(34:43):
when he finally realized that it wasit was an alien, he had he
had guns. We're in Texas.Everybody has guns. So he's he's trying
to, you know, find thisthing and shoot it. Well, before
he had a chance to do that, this particular alien shot a blue beam
(35:06):
out of a breastplate or something inits chest. He said, it was
about four inches in diameter. Andthis it was like a laser beam of
a death beam or whatever, andit cut through everything in the hangar,
planes, scaffolding, and it cuta hole through the outside wall of the
hangers, and we're talking corrugated steel. And so now he knew that these
(35:31):
things either just could kill him orwanted to kill him. So now he
was really scared. So he hadguns everywhere. He had guns on his
workbench, and he had guns onhis hip, and you know, he
was scared to death. But atthe same time, he was fascinated.
(35:52):
He wanted to know these creatures.He wanted to know what they knew,
So there was this kind of alove hate thing going on through the whole
thing. So that was the Thatwas the first one I got as I
got as this question again real quick. We've got airplanes now that are damaged
by this blue beat right right,He's got a answer to somebody on that
once again, do any pictures,evidence, insurance claims for the damage anything?
(36:15):
No, he covered it up becausehe was see, if you're in
the air craft, if you're apilot or any anywhere in the uh you
know that business, you answer tothe FAA, you don't talk about UFOs.
In fact, he denied it fora long time and his employees kind
(36:37):
of got mad because he wasn't sayinganything and they're thinking, you know,
am I losing my mind? Andfinally it all came out and everybody said,
what happens here stays here, butwe're not going to tell the the
FAA. So in order to fileacclaim, they would have had the risk
(36:58):
of losing their license to do theirbusiness. Okay, Yeah, So he
just he just ate the cost anddid the repairs himself. Okay, Yeah,
So what happened after that? Sothen there was another alien that showed
up and there were a couple ofemployees who were there. This was apparently
(37:20):
during the daytime, and now he'sreally trigger happy, he's nervous, he's
scared, and he just reflexively shotthis thing and it falls on the floor
of the hangar and it starts bleedingout this blue stuff and out gassing something
and they're, you know, they'rekind of coughing and choking. So he
says, everybody get out. Sothey left the hangar and when they came
(37:44):
back, the thing was gone,but there was He said, there was
a rivulet etched into the concrete wherethe thing had bled. And he thought,
okay, I'm I'm glad because hopefullythe alien and paramedics came and picked
him up. And you know,he wasn't dead. He was, okay,
you know, I didn't really wantto hurt him that kind of thing.
(38:07):
But it left. It left ahelmet, and he said it was
like a It wasn't like a motorcyclehelmet or a NASA helmet. It was
like a skull cap. You wouldn'thave known that it had it on.
Even so, I don't know whyit would have I don't know why,
you know why wouldn't the paramedics takethe you know, take everything. Well,
(38:28):
so other but other people in theshops saw this event, obviously,
correct, Yes, yes, according, do we know where these people are
at? Now? Well, wehave one of our We have an investigator
on our team, and I talkedto you about him earlier. He's trying
to we We did track down theone guy that saw some things and thinks
(38:49):
that it was demonic, but we'restill trying to track down some of the
people who saw aliens or craft andthose kinds of things. So former police
officer, well, yeah, he'sa military investigator, former air marshal,
I mean, and he now he'sa private not your investigator who does polygraph
(39:12):
and all kinds of things. Soyeah, he's our lead investigator. So
finally there was this to go backto what Jimmy told me at the beginning.
Now, there's a third alien whoshows up and he's there all by
himself, and he shoots it andit falls and it's dead. And he
said, you know, I lookedat this thing and I'm thinking, if
(39:34):
you had told me five years agothat i'd have an alien body, and
I wouldn't just put it in theback of my truck and drive it all
over the country, go on theOprah Show and CNN and everything I could
think of. I would have saidyou were crazy, but he said,
in that moment, I felt likethis was a creature. This was a
(39:57):
creature of God. This somebody Iyeah, I was scared of, but
I was also interested in knowing whatthey know. You know, one night
he packed a bag and sat downon the runway, hoping that they'd come
pick him up and take him fora ride. You know, I never
did though, he never he nevergot abducted. Correct, Well, he
(40:20):
said he wasn't, but some ofhis stories had all the hallmarks of abductions.
Well, we're about ready to takeour last break. So when we
get back, we've now got analien. The alien paramedics did not come
and pick this one up. Iwant to hear what happened to him after
that, So folks stay with us. Still more to come. We'll be
(40:42):
back after these messages, and weare back with my guests tonight, Pat
O'Connell. But before we get going, I just want to remind everybody if
you'd like to check out a littlebit more about the Florida Bureau of paranorl
Investigation and Indian River Hauntings. Checkout our website at Indian River Hauntings dot
com. You can also check outour website or YouTube. I'll get it
out at Indian River County Indian RiverHauntings two three four one. I can't
(41:06):
talk tonight, But another thing youcan do is if you want to get
a hold of me directly here onthe show, email me at ghost Guy
at Paranormal steakeout dot org. Ifyou've got questions, thoughts, or comments
you'd like to make about the show, I'll bring them up at the beginning.
Just send me a note say hello, of nothing else and ask some
great questions. Also, if youwant to see some other great programming,
(41:28):
go to XZBN dot net. That'sthe excellent radio broadcast Radio television broadcast network.
Great shows there. That's x ZBNdot net, So please check out
that and Pat, How can folksfind out more about you and your work?
Can hear me? Well, theycan go to my brother's website,
(41:50):
which i've I can there's there.We've got a delay apparently, so I
can go to experiencers dot com xwith just an exit the beginning Experiencers dot
com, and I've got a videoof the book, a little book trailer
(42:14):
video and places you can find thebook. We've got it out on ebook
and paperback now and we're working onthe audiobook should be out in January hopefully.
So, Okay, what's the nameof your books? So folks can
also find that it's called bleed Through, A True Story of Aliens, Demons
(42:37):
and Pure Evil in Texas, Oky, So do check that out the best.
The best way to find it isto go to the website and click
the link, because I've found thatif you if you try to search on
the title, it tries to giveyou coloring books that don't bleed Through or
(42:57):
something. We've had a little bitof a delay here, so we'll try
and work through that. But whatI also, before we start getting into
what happened with the last alien thatClay shot, I got to ask one
quick question. You've made a jumpearlier from aliens in Demonic Possession. Briefly,
can you explain to me how youguys made that transition or what made
(43:22):
you think aliens and demons might bethe same, just briefly? Well,
I I was open to whatever Claywas the one that had the interpretation that
what was happening to his wife wasdemonic possession, because he said, she
went from this very sweet personality tothis very dark personality, you know,
(43:45):
to the point where she was,you know, out there trying to shoot
them. So but where that conceptkind of solidified was when I interviewed one
of the witnesses to some of theevents out there. He believed that it
was all demonic. Now, klaisawone night what he thought was an angelic
(44:10):
creature and he called it a plasmaangel. So it was this blue light
sort of undulating in his living roomand he said, he said it looked
like an angel to him, exceptthat it had brown hair. And he
thought, well, wait a minute, who says angels have to have blonde
hair? So it was another oneof those weird little cool things that you
(44:34):
know that he came up with that. But he said that during the course
of this phenomenon appearing in his livingroom, he said, there was this
darker energy force that came up fromthe ground, which, you know,
the building was on a slap sothere's nothing underneath, and he said it
came up and it seemed to overtakeor seduce or attack this blue creature that
(45:00):
he saw as an angel, andhe felt like that was a demon,
that was a demon or devil orwhatever coming up. And he also said
that one night he was he wastaking pictures of what he called an inter
dimensional portal, and when that thingclosed, he still had the camera up,
so he started looking through the lensof the camera before he pulled it
(45:22):
down to bring it inside, andhe said he saw what he said,
look like the devil. It wasred and slick and slimy, and it
was pushing itself out of the groundwith its hoofs interesting the ground, and
(45:44):
he said it scared him to death. So he, you know, he
grabbed the Yeah, so a sourceof the demonic thing. But as I
said, so it sounds like thatthey're not necessary. It's not necessarily their
theory that they're connected. They wereassociating behaviors and what they've seen and making
an assumption. Now you mentioned hehad a camera out. Did he get
(46:07):
any pictures of anything? When hehad the camera out, he got pictures
of what he said was an interdimensional portal. I can't tell you it
wasn't. I didn't see what hesaid came out of it. He said,
there were ships, there were creatures, there were aliens. There was
a wolf that walked on its hindlegs came out of it. He didn't
(46:29):
get any pictures of that. AllI can see is a flare of light.
And of course, again being theskeptic the analyst, I'm looking at
Okay, are there lights out onthe airfield that our motion sensor that there
would trip the movement would turn themon? Are there lights that come on
(46:52):
at certain times? And he saidno, yes, I mean the lights
come on at dark and they stayon until dawn. So if that was
if that were uh, just acase of overexposure of normal lights that kind
(47:15):
of burned out the image, hewould have been able to get that every
night, all night long. Buthe said it only happened for an hour,
So I can't That's one of thosethings I can't explain that, you
know. Well, getting back toother things that just fantastic stories here,
(47:35):
talk about the ailing he shot andwhat happened this last alien that he shot.
Yeah, so so he's he's gotthis ailien. He wrapped it.
He said, I need I needto buy time. I don't know what
to do. So he wrapped itup in black plastic and then put it
in a box and he said,you know, if I keep it,
(47:58):
it's it's going to decompose. Ican't just I can't do that. So
he takes it to his cousin's.His cousin had a restaurant that had a
walk in freezer, and he tookit up and told him told his cousin
that he had shot this feral pigbecause in Texas we have pigs all over
the place, so anybody, anybodywho wants to who wants to kill one,
(48:22):
is welcome to So he he that'swhat he told his cousin, and
he said, you know, justhang on to it for a while,
and so he kept it in thefreezer there for a while, and then
he realized that he felt like amurderer. He felt really bad about having
killed this creature that he wanted toknow. Now, Yes, they had
(48:45):
threatened him, and I even said, you know, if it was a
bear in your house, you wouldhave shot it. And he said,
I'm not sure, you know,So I'm thinking this. This guy was
a really tenderhearted guy. Despite allthe guns in the macho he was very
tenderhearted and and he felt like hehad done wrong to this alien. So
(49:07):
he finally goes out to the getsgets his gets the body back from from
the freezer. Cousin never knew whatit was, and he brings it back
and he buries it, and heperforms a little, you know, some
kind of little ceremony over it tofeel feeling like he wanted to pay his
(49:30):
respects to this creature. Knew youknow where that body was buried. I
know where he claims that it wasburied. I have directions. Have you
had an opportunity to go there yet? In some surprise, yes, okay,
so you've been out there? Notyet because yes, and and we
(49:54):
I've assembled a team now to goout there and look for it. But
the kicker is that at one pointwhen we were interviewing, when my husband
and I were out at the airportand we interviewed Clay, he told my
husband I might have booby trapped it. Now, my husband said, oh,
(50:16):
okay, if you did, whatwhat would you have used? He
said, hand grenades? So knowingthat he yes, he had he had
a license to manufacture weapons. Sohe had uh, he had special licenses
from the ATF for handling things thatnormal people wouldn't So it would not surprise
(50:42):
me if he was he had theability to have hand grenades. Now,
some of the people on my team, including we have a former military bomb
tech, he thinks it wouldn't bea military issue hand grenade, it would
be would have been a dummy.Clay then packed himself. Yeah, yeah,
(51:04):
so we have We've had to lookat it in terms of first of
all, we don't want anybody toknow where this is because we don't want
people going out there and just diggingholes and blowing themselves up. So I
trust So when you find out,you will share that. Oh absolutely,
we'll share it with the world forsure. Well, we've only got about
(51:25):
two minutes left now wrap the storyup. What happened to Clay. Well,
so the first thing that happened,my brother was going to come out
to Texas and film and interview anddig up the body. And shortly before
he came here, I got thecall in the middle of the night that
(51:45):
he had passed away in his sleep. He had a heart attack. So
then Clay and I were kind oflost. We continued to correspond, we
continued to talk, but we wereboth kind of gut punched and didn't know
what to do. And so abouta year after he died, I made
(52:07):
a video memorial video for my brother, and I sent it out and I
sent it out to everybody who wouldhave known him, people on social media,
and I obviously sent it out topeople like Clay, and I didn't
hear back and didn't hear back.So I contacted Clay's sister because I thought
this is unusual. I had beentalking to Clay or emailing him several times
(52:30):
a week, if not several timesa day, and so it was really
odd that I didn't hear from himabout this because he and Jim had become
very close. And so I contactedhis sister and I said, is he
okay? And she said, no, he's in the hospital. He has
multiple organ failure and flesh eating bacteriaand if he survives, they're going to
(52:54):
have to cut off huge portions ofhis skin and do transplants on it.
And then the next day she saidhe had passed away. So well,
I'm fascinating with your investigation. Ireally think testing water and soil out there
(53:14):
is going to be really important toyou. It's either going to give you
answers or give you more questions.Either way, it's going to be very,
very helpful and we're anxious to hearwhat you find out about that.
So yeah, I keep going,move forward as it were, and we're
just about done for the night.I'm hoping to have you back to hear
(53:36):
what you find I would love toand we'll talk more about it. And
folks, I want to thank allof you for being here tonight. We've
heard a fascinating story. Always keepyour mind open as well as your eyes,
take good care of yourselves, loveyour family, have a happy,
happy holidays, and we'll see allof you on the other side. Have
a good night, folks.
Despite his experience and training, Larryalso and keeps an open mind to discussions
on topics that deal with evidence thatare not quite as physical in nature.
Paranormal Stakeout guests are professionals in thefield of the paranormal and parapsychology, conducting
the investigations and research needed to furtherthe cause of paranormal study. Larry advocates
(00:22):
an agenda of standardization of structure andtraining in the field of paranormal investigation and
research for the purpose of one daybeing able to produce the evidence needed to
convince a jury of the existence ofthe paranormal. Whether it is ghosts,
UFOs, unsolved mysteries, hauntings,or cryptids, no topic is beyond the
(00:42):
investigative reach of Larry Lawson and theParanormal Stakeout Radio TV show team. Now
Here is the host of the ParanormalStakeout Radio TV show, Larry Lawson.
(01:11):
Hello everyone, and welcome back toParanormal Stakeout. For those of you that
are joining us for the first time, my name is Larry Lawson. I'm
the host of this show, comingto you from Vero Beach, Florida,
the home office of the Florida BeYour Paranoral Investigation and Indian River Hauntings.
If you're ever interested in checking usout, I'll bet you can go to
our website at Indian River Hauntings dotcom. You can also check us out
(01:34):
on Facebook at Florida Be Your ParanormalInvestigation and Indian River Hauntings and our YouTube
channel at Indian River Hauntings two threefour one if you want to see what
else that we're up to out there, but really glad to have everybody back
tonight. You know, we coverall kinds of subjects here in Paranormal Steakout.
It's not just ghosts, but it'sanything outside the norms of science,
(01:57):
and tonight bringing to you a compelling, very interesting and compelling story. My
guest is Padd O'Connell. She isa communications consultant for many high tech corporations
and in varied fields such as nuclearpower, aerospace, antibody, library solutions.
She's a researcher, a novelist,an author. She's involved in all
(02:21):
kinds of things, and she's alsoa paranormal investigator. And I'm really really
happy to have with us tonight,Patt O'Connell. So Pat Welcome to Paranormal
Stakeout. Thanks Larry, it's goodto be here. Thank you for inviting
me. Well, it's You've gotsuch an interesting story and I'd like to
get into that. But before wedo that, I'd like my audience to
(02:43):
learn a little bit about who paddO'Connell is and in and in addition,
your brother, I want to heara little bit about Jimmy, So share
with us if you would. Well, you know, you think I'm more
special than I think I am,But you know I'm I've been a writer
and a communications consultant for over thirtyyears, doing marketing and training and you
(03:08):
know, all kinds of technical thingsand websites and even process development, helping
people. It used to be calleduh efficiency experts, you know, making
making your untangling your systems and makingthem work more efficiently. My daughter is
(03:30):
now doing basically the same thing aswhat you call a scrum master now uh
in software, So uh, youknow, kind of pass that down a
little bit. But you know,and I I I'm a skeptic. I'm
a skeptic, but I am thegood kind of skeptic. I am open
to uh evidence, and I'm nota pushover. But I am open minded
(03:53):
to all kinds of possibilities, andI'm fascinated with the idea. You know,
your your researching ghosts. I've doneghost hunts. But then you know,
the skeptic in made debunks some ofthe things that I some of the
evidence, the evidence that I allegedlycollected and right, But the whole point
(04:13):
of doing that to me is toget rid of the garbage so that the
real mysteries pop out in great relief. So I'm looking for the real mysteries,
and I that's why I love thisstory that Jim got me involved in.
And how did you get involved inthe paranormal? What? What got
(04:34):
you besides than Jim any past experiences. We grew up with parents that were
open to all kinds of things.I mean, we used to watch uh
it was a Darren McGavin show,a TV nightstalker, right, it was
so campy and goofy, but weloved it. And you know, in
(04:55):
the Great the first Great Northeast Blackoutin nineteen sixty five, we were living
in a house that was two hundredand seventy years old, and so,
I mean it had a lot ofhistory from the early days. It was
an old inn on the Boston postRoad, and the Marquis de Lafayette and
(05:15):
Benjamin Franklin had been at our house, so you know, we had there
was all kinds of history there,so everybody kind of gathered at our house.
We had this big job. Wehad actually several giant fireplaces, and
so we had a big fire goingin the den and we were listening to
transistor radio and one of our friends, one of my brothers and my friends
from high school, came in,as all of the kids in the neighborhood
(05:40):
did. They just came in likeit was their house. And he said
he had seen a UFO that night, and I had forgotten about that till
Jimmy mentioned it, and that remindedJimmy that he had an My brother was
an experiencer, he was an abductee, and Jimmy's Jimmy, Jimmy's my he
was my youngest brother. And sotalking about this, uh, you know,
(06:06):
remembering the blackout he and remembering thatour friend had seen the UFO made
him start thinking about the fact thathe might have had his first encounter,
his first abduction, not that year, but maybe a couple of years later
(06:27):
when he was still a kid,because he just kind of disappeared from my
mother had sent him over to thestore. It was like two houses away,
and he didn't come back for hoursand hours, and he didn't know
where he'd been. Well, well, let's see, let's back up,
just let's back up just a littlebit. You you had kids that were
at your house. One of thefriends said, they saw UFO. How
did that involve Jimmy? How did? I'm not sure? Well it did.
(06:53):
When Jimmy and I were talking aboutthe blackout, we were recalling the
blackout and how much fun with thatnight, and he said, remember when
Pete said on the way over hehad seen a UFO in about the same
place that my brother, actually,my two youngest brothers had seen their first
UFOs over the store, over thegrocery store. So that just kind of
(07:15):
Jimmy had come. For years andyears, he thought he was just having
these really vivid dreams, until oneday somebody said, have you ever thought
that they might be dreams? Sohe was dreaming about, you know,
having these abduction kind of dreams,but he never allowed himself to consider that
they were real until this friend hadmentioned it and when he started looking at
(07:40):
it from that perspective, he foundout that his wife was also having experiences
on the same nights he was havingthese abduction dreams or these abduction experiences,
and you know, she would shesmelled a certain smell that actually Jimmy was.
Jimmy got on the phone with WhitleyStreever in nineteen ninety one, the
(08:03):
year of the big solar eclipse thatthere were all the multiple sightings over Mexico
City. I don't know if youremember that or maybe I'm maybe you're too
young for that, but there wasthis TV show and you could call in,
and Whitley happened to be a gueston it. And Whitley, I'm
(08:24):
sure your audience knows, is oneof the probably the most famous abductee,
the author of the Communion books andall that. And so Jimmy called in
and was talking about his wife havingthis experience, and Whitley confirmed it.
But he was a little uncomfortable becauseit was one of those things that it's
(08:46):
like and you, being a formallaw enforcement officer, sometimes you withhold pieces
of evidence because only the perpetrator willknow, or only somebody on the inside
will know. And to me askwhat Lee a question on this TV show
And Whitley was kind of uncomfortable aboutit, and he said, yeah,
we don't talk about that, andit was nothing big, but it was
(09:09):
just something to confirm that other familiesare having that same experience where the partner
who's not being abducted experiences other things. I mean, one morning, my
sister in law was making the bedand the bed was full of leaves,
and you know, she's like,Okay, I don't know how this happens,
(09:31):
but yeah, okay, so he'shad these experiences. He spoke with
Whitley Streeber. What happened after that, Well, you know, after that,
I think he started seriously accepting thereality of the abduction. And then
he realized that there were millions ofother people who had the same experience and
(09:58):
didn't have any acknowledgement, didn't haveany respect that you know, it tore
their lives apart in some cases.So he started talking to people, and
you know, he connected with themall over the world on Facebook and other
social media. And so that's whenhe decided he wanted to create a TV
(10:22):
show, a reality show that wouldtell these people's story, and he said
he would get really frustrated because hesaid, everybody wants to know, how
is this different from other UFO stories, And he said, it's not about
the vehicles. If somebody famous showedup at your door, you're not going
to say, oh hi, it'snice to see you. Let me go
look at your car. You know. So he wanted to do a show
(10:46):
that told the abductees' stories and gavethem credibility and compassion, and so he
was, oh gosh, doing that. I don't know, probably twenty ten
or earlier than that. I meantwenty two thousand and five, it could
(11:07):
have been earlier than that. Ican't remember exactly when he started very seriously
developing the story and seeking funding frominvestors and learning all about, you know,
the media business, which is abig mess of politics and drama.
(11:28):
And you know, he went throughseveral fall starts with investors who then sabotaged
the thing or wanted it to besomething else. And I'm sure anybody who's
ever done this has experienced those kindsof issues. Okay, so he's and
from one innerstand too. He beganto he attended a couple of conferences and
(11:50):
started seeing people that he had actuallyseen during his abduction dreams, for lack
of a better word, Yes,and he saw he like, he talked
to one woman that was describing anevent where she was abducted. She saw
a man in the ship, anotherhuman in the ship where she was had
(12:18):
been abducted and was being you know, you know, tested or whatever they
were doing to her. And youknow, he had only spoken to her
on the phone, and they wereboth supposed to go to a UFO conference
and he did. He went toall these conferences and when he ran into
her, he didn't recognize her,but she recognized him. She said,
(12:43):
it's you. You're the guy thatwas in the ship when I was abducted.
So she yeah, So so thatwas really interesting. Well, we're
about ready to come up on ournext break, and we've heard a lot
about your brother, Jimmy. ButJimmy actually he turned you on to a
story that you began to research andget involved in with yourself. And that's
(13:05):
a guy by the name of ClayClay Wheeler. Wheeler, Right, So
what Jimmy just called you one dayand said, hey, you got to
check this out, right, hecalled me. It was in twenty early
twenty fifteen, and he said,you know, I've got I've got this
case and it's in Texas. Andnow Jimmy was in Connecticut, uh,
(13:28):
and I'm here in Texas and hesaid, this guy's story is so much
bigger than I can do in aone hour TV show or even a multiple
episode arc. H And would yoube interested in first checking him out,
you know, meeting with him andvetting him, make sure he's not you
(13:48):
know, out there crazy. Well, we got to take our first break
now, so when we get back, let's start talking about Clay Wheeler.
So stay with us, folks.More to come on Paranormal Stakeout. We'll
be back after these messages. Whetheryou're a skeptic or a believer, join
(14:18):
me Rob McConnell on the X ZoneRadio Show as together we will investigate the
world of the paranormal and the scienceof parapsychology. Join me and my special
guests from around the world each andevery night as we investigate UFOs, ghosts,
psychics, Bigfoot conspiracies, and muchmuch more. Dare to Believe and
Dare to be Heard on the XZone Radio Show with Rob McConnell Monday through
(14:41):
Friday at eleven PM on your hometownradio, Classic twelve twenty Classic twelve twenty
dot CA. And we are backwith my guest author and researcher Patt O'Connell,
and I'm going to get into thiskind of an interesting story here now.
Just to rehash a little bit,your brother Jim, who's no longer
(15:01):
with us, I understand, beganbegan to work with folks that were abductees,
even started a show to allow themto spread their story, or at
least share their story. And hecame across this guy that he contacted you
about being an author, and hisname is Clay Wheeler, and the story
(15:22):
was bigger than he could tell.So with that, tell us more.
Well, that's right, and hesaid basically this this guy has had all
kinds of experiences, not just UFOsand aliens, but a lot more.
And your audience is probably most similar, most familiar with Skinwalker Ranch. So
there was you know, a mixof UFOs and aliens and ghosts and Poultergeist
(15:50):
and orbs and inner dimensional portals andyou name it. So this actually goes
back to more like the original skinWalker story, not the one that we're
seeing on TV with all the technology, and so that's what happened. And
he said, he said, so, would you be interested in in vetting
this guy? Make sure before Icome down to Texas to film him and
(16:15):
you know, see what's going on. Would you check him out? And
if you think he's the real deal, would you be interested in writing a
book or multiple books, or ascreenplay or all of the above. And
I'm like, sure, that soundsreally interesting. And then he said,
the guy says, claims that hehas shot and buried an alien out there,
(16:36):
and I'm like, my eyes buggedout, and I'm like, okay,
I'm in. So, you know, it turns out, you know,
this guy is a was a anaircraft repair technician. He had his
own business in this little bitty airportin the middle of nowhere. I mean,
complete rural country, no nobody around. I mean, it's not like
(17:03):
any airport you've ever imagined. It'sjust basically a landing strip in a couple
of buildings. Which state was thisin? This is in Texas? In
Texas? Okay? Yeah? Andso this guy, you know, he
owned a hangar, but the hangarhad an apartment. He had built an
apartment on the other end of thehangar building and in the middle there was
(17:23):
his office. So all of thisstuff happened at or around the airport,
and he was seeing UFOs, hewas seeing aliens, he saw held events
(17:45):
where he lost his keys and showedthey showed up in the ceiling and the
rafters of the hangar. Now youknow what a hanger looks like. It's
like thirty feet up and how doyou get how do you lose your keys
up? There was he telling?Was he telling you the story? Or
(18:07):
was this coming from Jimmy right now? No, this was well, Jimmy
kind of gave me this the snapshotof the breadth of the craziness. And
then I got in touch with Clayand I started learning all about what had
gone on. And he was justlike a pinball machine at first, just
(18:29):
so happy to have somebody listen tohim that didn't dismiss him and say you're
crazy. Who really wanted to know? And I wanted you know you and
I were talking about I'm a skeptic, but I'm open minded, and so
when I investigate something, I'm tryingto sort the wheat from the chaff.
(18:49):
In a way, I want toget the garbage out of the way so
that I can really focus on truemysteries and try to understand. So that's
what I wanted to do with him. And he had a lot of stories.
There were some things that he experienced. You know, he had pictures
of rods, what people call rodsor skyfish, and I'm sure you've heard
(19:11):
of that, and it's really amisunderstanding. It's a you know, your
camera shutter speed is too slow tofreeze the movement of the wings of bugs,
like a moth or something in thedark, and so it looks like
a flying worm with a bunch ofwings. And so, you know,
I wanted to debunk some of thesethings with him so that when people heard
(19:36):
his story, they were going tobelieve what he saw and what he describes
to them that they can't. They'renot going to just dismiss some of this
stuff as you know, misinterpretations orwhatever. So you know, we went
through when I started working with him, we corresponded, we talked on the
(19:57):
phone, and he sent me awhole bunch of pictures. Now, when
Jimmy first told me about this,he said, you know, this guy
has all this evidence. While Iwas, you know, salivating to see
this evidence well, it turns outthat a lot of his photos were blurry
or it was a dot in thesky and you couldn't really tell what it
(20:18):
was. And then the things thathe saw up close, he didn't get
a chance to take a picture upor he tried to take a picture and
it was dark, so all hegot was dark and dark. And you
know, a lot of the evidenceI had to end up disregarding because I
ultimately believed he experienced some of somereally extraordinary things. So at a certain
(20:49):
point I started telling him, forgetabout your pictures. Forget about But there
were a few things that were thatare interesting. But for the most part,
just tell me what you experienced withyour own eyes, not through a
camera and not through a scope,not through uh you know whatever, night
(21:10):
vision goggles or whatever. Let meask you this real quick. You weren't
happy with the evidence, and Iunderstand it. This is in Texas and
I and I understand your concerned aboutit, letting the exact spot out,
so I won't. I won't askyou about that so much. But what
about him then made you believe himwith the lack of evidence? What about
(21:32):
him caused you to think he wasreal? There were a lot of things.
And really, kind of the lastchapter of the book, I go
through trying kind of my my skepticslogic, could it have could it have
been hallucinations? Could it have beenthis? Could it have been that?
But there's always a butt I couldn'tI couldn't explain it all away. And
(21:55):
really, when it came down toit, if you would look at him
when he was talking about his experiences, and I have one clip from an
interview where he's sitting in a lawnchair with a runway behind him, and
I asked him, overall, wasthis a negative or a positive experience?
(22:17):
And he said, well, yeah, I'd have to I'd have to say
it was a negative experience because hehad gotten sicker and sicker and sicker throughout
the course of this experience. Andyou know, I can kind of explain
some of that, but he youknow, he said, I guess overall
it was a negative experience. Butimmediately his whole manner changed and he just
(22:41):
kind of looked up and he said, but you know, it was it
was exhilarating. It was like livingin the Sci Fi channel every night looking
up at the sky and seeing theseships and so you could tell the it
just he believed it so deeply thatI believed it. I believed him.
(23:07):
And as much as I tried todismiss some of the some of the things
that he claimed that happened or thathe saw, there was always a piece
that I couldn't explain away. Sofor me, this is still an open
case. I mean, I feellike there's so much. I mean,
(23:30):
we've got we've got a team,and we can talk about that later,
but we want to go out thereand for example, test for toxic gases
or is there something in the waterthat could have poisoned people in that area,
Because people were experienced, not justhim, people who worked at his
(23:52):
shop, his wife, people wholived in the area were having strange experiences.
They were also seeing craft, soit wasn't just him. But the
skeptic in me wants to think,is there a prosaic explanation? Was there
some kind of toxin in the water? And that's an excellent direction to go
(24:12):
on. But what did he see? You've talked about seeing things, but
what right did he see? Well, he saw all kinds of UFOs from
the I think the first one hesaw was like a pork pie hat.
It was silver, kind of likea pie plate. He saw classic he
called the Mexican hat saucers. Hesaw an orb that he said was like
(24:37):
a soap bubble, a giant soapbubble. And there was this one craft,
and he drew some sketches of thevarious craft that he had seen.
There were egg shaped craft, therewere some that looked like what Kenneth Arnold
drew. The Kenneth Arnold, thepilot who first he didn't really coin the
(24:57):
term flying saucers, but he saidwhat he saw of these ships over Mountaineer,
I think he said they moved likesaucers skipping on water. But when
he drew them, they didn't looklike our classic flying saucers. They were
like a disc with a something onthe back. So Clay saw those.
And then there was this other craft. He said it looked like a hardshell
(25:21):
eyeglass case. And that one showedup on a couple of occasions. The
first time it gave him, hecalled it the headache beam. He said
it felt like a bucket of warmwater was poured into him, and then
after that he got this horrible headache, and you know, but he his
friends were concerned that they were tryingto kill him. He thought they were
(25:42):
trying to communicate with him. Hesaid, it's he said, I think
it's like what a computer must feellike when it's downloading data. And I
thought that is such a cool conceptthat he would, you know, humanized.
Yeah. Yeah, how many people? You said, other people there
(26:03):
saw it? Saw these events?Right? If you could? And there
were employees of his people that workedat the airport. Was was there very?
Was there a very I know you'vesaid it's out in the middle of
nowhere, but was there a townnear there? Yeah, there's a small
town, very small town. Howmany How many people do you how many
people did have you been able toidentify that experienced things? If you could
(26:25):
put a general number on it outthere? Yeah? Well, his his
mom, Clay, his mom.I have not tracked down his wife,
his ex wife yet. We talkedto a friend of his who who was
involved in some of these things anddid see some of the stuff. Now
(26:47):
he thought, and we can talkabout this. He thought it was demonic,
not aliens, and he thought allof it was a manifestation of demonic
forces. That's something I'd like toI would like to delve in there.
Now we're getting ready to take ournext break, but just kind of set
up our What we want I wantto talk about this next session is was
(27:11):
he ever abducted? Did he eversee aliens? What was his experiences with
those aliens? Also, how dideverybody come together? Your brother Clay and
not only your brothers not with us. I understand Clay is also passed on
also, Yes, so you know, I'd like to chat about all of
that when we come back after thisbreak. So, folks, lots of
(27:33):
things to talk about Clay Wheeler andhis UFO abduction experiences, So stay with
us. We'll be back right afterthese messages. Welcome back everybody with my
guest night, Pat O'Connell sharing withus a very fascinating story. So your
brother who has experiences gets a wholeof you asked you to check out this
guy, Clay Walker, that hadan experience that he'd like to feature on
(27:56):
the production that he's doing for television. You go out there, you interview
him, you start getting some information. I've got to tell you, I'm
impressed with the fact that you willwant to get out there test the soil,
test water, find logical answers forthis because some fascinating stories, and
I don't doubt that you believe him, but right now we don't have any
(28:18):
evidence. But now he started alsotalking to you about actually seeing aliens,
possibly being abducted. So pick itup there and share with us what happened,
what he saw, what he experienced. Right Well, just to back
up a little bit, there werethese behavior changes, and this is how
the demonic forces or this demonic conceptcame in. And it seemed like everybody
(28:42):
who would he said, his employees, when they clock in at the airport,
they would their personality would go dark. And the one who was most
affected apparently by it, was hiswife. And there were several occasions where
her personality completely went dark, tothe point where he felt that she was
(29:04):
she was a victim of some kindof demonic possession. So the first occasion
was they had had a fight andhe went out to her truck she was
leaving, and she slammed his handin the door and then dragged him from
the truck for like a mile anda half, and he ended up with
(29:26):
broken ribs and two broken arms anda broken leg, and you know,
abrasions ended up in the hospital anyway, And then another time she woke up
she looked like she was eight monthspregnant, and he, first of all
was scared to death for her,because what can cause a bump on your
belly this big? What kind ofyou know? Could it? She had
(29:48):
been bitten by something or whatever,and he wanted to get her to the
hospital, but she she was eatingraw meat out of the refrigerator, and
he said her voice got really deep. And that day that she woke up
looking pregnant, he tried to gether to try to convince her to go
(30:08):
to the hospital, and she wouldn'tgo and ended up kicking him in the
head. Not he fell down,hit his head and he was knocked out
for a while. When he cameto, she was gone, and when
she came back several hours later,it was gone. So that was the
second thing. And then the thirdthing was that she he had said,
(30:30):
you need to go move and gostay with your sister because this place is
affecting you. This is not goodfor you, it's not good for anybody.
And so she showed so she wasgone, staying with her sister.
But she showed up at the airportone day and started with a thirty eight
thirty eight special gun and started shootingeverybody, and fortunately she didn't hit anybody,
(30:55):
but she ended up being arrested.And after that he got divorced.
So now to answer to answer yourquestion, now he's living there by himself,
and that's when he started seeing aliens. The first time happened, it
was the middle of the night.He woke up. It was three o'clock
in the morning and he couldn't sleep, and he thought, well, I'll
just call my sister, because shewas working in China at the time,
(31:19):
so it's the middle of the dayfor her. So he calls and he's
chatting with her, and he's justkind of pacing around the living room and
just visioning. And he goes andhe reaches for the door that goes from
his apartment into the office that's betweenthe apartment and the hangar, and he
opens the door and on his leftthere are two little gray aliens. And
(31:41):
he said, all of this happenedin a few seconds, but it just
etched in his mind. He said, he opened the door, and he
said, these two aliens moved outof the way as if they were like
a gate on a hinge, youknow. And he thought that that was
really weird to me. Was oneof those weird things that who would make
(32:02):
that up? You know, ifyou're if you're lying or you're hallucinating,
where do you get that? Soand then so he looked the alien,
the two little aliens, and thenthen he looks over to his right and
there's this tall alien who was tanskin and he said, he was naked,
(32:22):
but he had no features. Soit was like a ken doll.
It was a blank slate. Theeyes were huge, the lids top and
bottom had bulges in the back ofthe head. And he said, and
this thing lunged toward him, andhe said he knew right away this was
the bodyguard for the two little guys. And when this thing lunged toward him,
(32:44):
he freaked out, backed out,closed the door, and dropped the
phone. Well, I found outlater his sister said he actually said gotta
go. And I don't know whetherhe canceled the car, you know,
ended the caller or she did,but whatever it was, So that was
his first encounter with aliens. Didhe did he say anything over the phone
(33:07):
to his sister? Did he snapa picture with the cell phone? Do
we have any nothing. And that'sthe problem book you have with the UFO
side as well as I do withthe GOT side. We don't have those
pictures when we have the stories,and it makes it very tough to prove
it well. And this was intwenty ten. He was not the most
(33:31):
technically leading edge guy. I mean, he could do anything with gears and
machines, but not so much withcomputers. So he had just a little
old flip flip phone, so youknow, in those days, the screen
was like the size of a postagestamp and he you know, he wouldn't
even have thought of it at thetime anyway. So that was his first
(33:55):
encounter with aliens. And then therewere other there were other creatures may or
may not have been aliens, wedon't know. There's an interdimensional portal portal
which is similar to the the whatthe Skinwalker Ranch story, uh, And
that's that's a whole other thing.But then he he started seeing these little
(34:19):
gray aliens in the hangar. Andthe first one that he saw, uh,
he and his secretary were in thein the hangar late one night.
Everybody else was gone, and theythought it was a kid in the hangar.
And so they're trying to find thekid, because this is in the
middle of nowhere. If there's achild who's in this hangar and there's no
adults looking for him, this isa serious problem. So, uh,
(34:43):
when he finally realized that it wasit was an alien, he had he
had guns. We're in Texas.Everybody has guns. So he's he's trying
to, you know, find thisthing and shoot it. Well, before
he had a chance to do that, this particular alien shot a blue beam
(35:06):
out of a breastplate or something inits chest. He said, it was
about four inches in diameter. Andthis it was like a laser beam of
a death beam or whatever, andit cut through everything in the hangar,
planes, scaffolding, and it cuta hole through the outside wall of the
hangers, and we're talking corrugated steel. And so now he knew that these
(35:31):
things either just could kill him orwanted to kill him. So now he
was really scared. So he hadguns everywhere. He had guns on his
workbench, and he had guns onhis hip, and you know, he
was scared to death. But atthe same time, he was fascinated.
(35:52):
He wanted to know these creatures.He wanted to know what they knew,
So there was this kind of alove hate thing going on through the whole
thing. So that was the Thatwas the first one I got as I
got as this question again real quick. We've got airplanes now that are damaged
by this blue beat right right,He's got a answer to somebody on that
once again, do any pictures,evidence, insurance claims for the damage anything?
(36:15):
No, he covered it up becausehe was see, if you're in
the air craft, if you're apilot or any anywhere in the uh you
know that business, you answer tothe FAA, you don't talk about UFOs.
In fact, he denied it fora long time and his employees kind
(36:37):
of got mad because he wasn't sayinganything and they're thinking, you know,
am I losing my mind? Andfinally it all came out and everybody said,
what happens here stays here, butwe're not going to tell the the
FAA. So in order to fileacclaim, they would have had the risk
(36:58):
of losing their license to do theirbusiness. Okay, Yeah, So he
just he just ate the cost anddid the repairs himself. Okay, Yeah,
So what happened after that? Sothen there was another alien that showed
up and there were a couple ofemployees who were there. This was apparently
(37:20):
during the daytime, and now he'sreally trigger happy, he's nervous, he's
scared, and he just reflexively shotthis thing and it falls on the floor
of the hangar and it starts bleedingout this blue stuff and out gassing something
and they're, you know, they'rekind of coughing and choking. So he
says, everybody get out. Sothey left the hangar and when they came
(37:44):
back, the thing was gone,but there was He said, there was
a rivulet etched into the concrete wherethe thing had bled. And he thought,
okay, I'm I'm glad because hopefullythe alien and paramedics came and picked
him up. And you know,he wasn't dead. He was, okay,
you know, I didn't really wantto hurt him that kind of thing.
(38:07):
But it left. It left ahelmet, and he said it was
like a It wasn't like a motorcyclehelmet or a NASA helmet. It was
like a skull cap. You wouldn'thave known that it had it on.
Even so, I don't know whyit would have I don't know why,
you know why wouldn't the paramedics takethe you know, take everything. Well,
(38:28):
so other but other people in theshops saw this event, obviously,
correct, Yes, yes, according, do we know where these people are
at? Now? Well, wehave one of our We have an investigator
on our team, and I talkedto you about him earlier. He's trying
to we We did track down theone guy that saw some things and thinks
(38:49):
that it was demonic, but we'restill trying to track down some of the
people who saw aliens or craft andthose kinds of things. So former police
officer, well, yeah, he'sa military investigator, former air marshal,
I mean, and he now he'sa private not your investigator who does polygraph
(39:12):
and all kinds of things. Soyeah, he's our lead investigator. So
finally there was this to go backto what Jimmy told me at the beginning.
Now, there's a third alien whoshows up and he's there all by
himself, and he shoots it andit falls and it's dead. And he
said, you know, I lookedat this thing and I'm thinking, if
(39:34):
you had told me five years agothat i'd have an alien body, and
I wouldn't just put it in theback of my truck and drive it all
over the country, go on theOprah Show and CNN and everything I could
think of. I would have saidyou were crazy, but he said,
in that moment, I felt likethis was a creature. This was a
(39:57):
creature of God. This somebody Iyeah, I was scared of, but
I was also interested in knowing whatthey know. You know, one night
he packed a bag and sat downon the runway, hoping that they'd come
pick him up and take him fora ride. You know, I never
did though, he never he nevergot abducted. Correct, Well, he
(40:20):
said he wasn't, but some ofhis stories had all the hallmarks of abductions.
Well, we're about ready to takeour last break. So when we
get back, we've now got analien. The alien paramedics did not come
and pick this one up. Iwant to hear what happened to him after
that, So folks stay with us. Still more to come. We'll be
(40:42):
back after these messages, and weare back with my guests tonight, Pat
O'Connell. But before we get going, I just want to remind everybody if
you'd like to check out a littlebit more about the Florida Bureau of paranorl
Investigation and Indian River Hauntings. Checkout our website at Indian River Hauntings dot
com. You can also check outour website or YouTube. I'll get it
out at Indian River County Indian RiverHauntings two three four one. I can't
(41:06):
talk tonight, But another thing youcan do is if you want to get
a hold of me directly here onthe show, email me at ghost Guy
at Paranormal steakeout dot org. Ifyou've got questions, thoughts, or comments
you'd like to make about the show, I'll bring them up at the beginning.
Just send me a note say hello, of nothing else and ask some
great questions. Also, if youwant to see some other great programming,
(41:28):
go to XZBN dot net. That'sthe excellent radio broadcast Radio television broadcast network.
Great shows there. That's x ZBNdot net, So please check out
that and Pat, How can folksfind out more about you and your work?
Can hear me? Well, theycan go to my brother's website,
(41:50):
which i've I can there's there.We've got a delay apparently, so I
can go to experiencers dot com xwith just an exit the beginning Experiencers dot
com, and I've got a videoof the book, a little book trailer
(42:14):
video and places you can find thebook. We've got it out on ebook
and paperback now and we're working onthe audiobook should be out in January hopefully.
So, Okay, what's the nameof your books? So folks can
also find that it's called bleed Through, A True Story of Aliens, Demons
(42:37):
and Pure Evil in Texas, Oky, So do check that out the best.
The best way to find it isto go to the website and click
the link, because I've found thatif you if you try to search on
the title, it tries to giveyou coloring books that don't bleed Through or
(42:57):
something. We've had a little bitof a delay here, so we'll try
and work through that. But whatI also, before we start getting into
what happened with the last alien thatClay shot, I got to ask one
quick question. You've made a jumpearlier from aliens in Demonic Possession. Briefly,
can you explain to me how youguys made that transition or what made
(43:22):
you think aliens and demons might bethe same, just briefly? Well,
I I was open to whatever Claywas the one that had the interpretation that
what was happening to his wife wasdemonic possession, because he said, she
went from this very sweet personality tothis very dark personality, you know,
(43:45):
to the point where she was,you know, out there trying to shoot
them. So but where that conceptkind of solidified was when I interviewed one
of the witnesses to some of theevents out there. He believed that it
was all demonic. Now, klaisawone night what he thought was an angelic
(44:10):
creature and he called it a plasmaangel. So it was this blue light
sort of undulating in his living roomand he said, he said it looked
like an angel to him, exceptthat it had brown hair. And he
thought, well, wait a minute, who says angels have to have blonde
hair? So it was another oneof those weird little cool things that you
(44:34):
know that he came up with that. But he said that during the course
of this phenomenon appearing in his livingroom, he said, there was this
darker energy force that came up fromthe ground, which, you know,
the building was on a slap sothere's nothing underneath, and he said it
came up and it seemed to overtakeor seduce or attack this blue creature that
(45:00):
he saw as an angel, andhe felt like that was a demon,
that was a demon or devil orwhatever coming up. And he also said
that one night he was he wastaking pictures of what he called an inter
dimensional portal, and when that thingclosed, he still had the camera up,
so he started looking through the lensof the camera before he pulled it
(45:22):
down to bring it inside, andhe said he saw what he said,
look like the devil. It wasred and slick and slimy, and it
was pushing itself out of the groundwith its hoofs interesting the ground, and
(45:44):
he said it scared him to death. So he, you know, he
grabbed the Yeah, so a sourceof the demonic thing. But as I
said, so it sounds like thatthey're not necessary. It's not necessarily their
theory that they're connected. They wereassociating behaviors and what they've seen and making
an assumption. Now you mentioned hehad a camera out. Did he get
(46:07):
any pictures of anything? When hehad the camera out, he got pictures
of what he said was an interdimensional portal. I can't tell you it
wasn't. I didn't see what hesaid came out of it. He said,
there were ships, there were creatures, there were aliens. There was
a wolf that walked on its hindlegs came out of it. He didn't
(46:29):
get any pictures of that. AllI can see is a flare of light.
And of course, again being theskeptic the analyst, I'm looking at
Okay, are there lights out onthe airfield that our motion sensor that there
would trip the movement would turn themon? Are there lights that come on
(46:52):
at certain times? And he saidno, yes, I mean the lights
come on at dark and they stayon until dawn. So if that was
if that were uh, just acase of overexposure of normal lights that kind
(47:15):
of burned out the image, hewould have been able to get that every
night, all night long. Buthe said it only happened for an hour,
So I can't That's one of thosethings I can't explain that, you
know. Well, getting back toother things that just fantastic stories here,
(47:35):
talk about the ailing he shot andwhat happened this last alien that he shot.
Yeah, so so he's he's gotthis ailien. He wrapped it.
He said, I need I needto buy time. I don't know what
to do. So he wrapped itup in black plastic and then put it
in a box and he said,you know, if I keep it,
(47:58):
it's it's going to decompose. Ican't just I can't do that. So
he takes it to his cousin's.His cousin had a restaurant that had a
walk in freezer, and he tookit up and told him told his cousin
that he had shot this feral pigbecause in Texas we have pigs all over
the place, so anybody, anybodywho wants to who wants to kill one,
(48:22):
is welcome to So he he that'swhat he told his cousin, and
he said, you know, justhang on to it for a while,
and so he kept it in thefreezer there for a while, and then
he realized that he felt like amurderer. He felt really bad about having
killed this creature that he wanted toknow. Now, Yes, they had
(48:45):
threatened him, and I even said, you know, if it was a
bear in your house, you wouldhave shot it. And he said,
I'm not sure, you know,So I'm thinking this. This guy was
a really tenderhearted guy. Despite allthe guns in the macho he was very
tenderhearted and and he felt like hehad done wrong to this alien. So
(49:07):
he finally goes out to the getsgets his gets the body back from from
the freezer. Cousin never knew whatit was, and he brings it back
and he buries it, and heperforms a little, you know, some
kind of little ceremony over it tofeel feeling like he wanted to pay his
(49:30):
respects to this creature. Knew youknow where that body was buried. I
know where he claims that it wasburied. I have directions. Have you
had an opportunity to go there yet? In some surprise, yes, okay,
so you've been out there? Notyet because yes, and and we
(49:54):
I've assembled a team now to goout there and look for it. But
the kicker is that at one pointwhen we were interviewing, when my husband
and I were out at the airportand we interviewed Clay, he told my
husband I might have booby trapped it. Now, my husband said, oh,
(50:16):
okay, if you did, whatwhat would you have used? He
said, hand grenades? So knowingthat he yes, he had he had
a license to manufacture weapons. Sohe had uh, he had special licenses
from the ATF for handling things thatnormal people wouldn't So it would not surprise
(50:42):
me if he was he had theability to have hand grenades. Now,
some of the people on my team, including we have a former military bomb
tech, he thinks it wouldn't bea military issue hand grenade, it would
be would have been a dummy.Clay then packed himself. Yeah, yeah,
(51:04):
so we have We've had to lookat it in terms of first of
all, we don't want anybody toknow where this is because we don't want
people going out there and just diggingholes and blowing themselves up. So I
trust So when you find out,you will share that. Oh absolutely,
we'll share it with the world forsure. Well, we've only got about
(51:25):
two minutes left now wrap the storyup. What happened to Clay. Well,
so the first thing that happened,my brother was going to come out
to Texas and film and interview anddig up the body. And shortly before
he came here, I got thecall in the middle of the night that
(51:45):
he had passed away in his sleep. He had a heart attack. So
then Clay and I were kind oflost. We continued to correspond, we
continued to talk, but we wereboth kind of gut punched and didn't know
what to do. And so abouta year after he died, I made
(52:07):
a video memorial video for my brother, and I sent it out and I
sent it out to everybody who wouldhave known him, people on social media,
and I obviously sent it out topeople like Clay, and I didn't
hear back and didn't hear back.So I contacted Clay's sister because I thought
this is unusual. I had beentalking to Clay or emailing him several times
(52:30):
a week, if not several timesa day, and so it was really
odd that I didn't hear from himabout this because he and Jim had become
very close. And so I contactedhis sister and I said, is he
okay? And she said, no, he's in the hospital. He has
multiple organ failure and flesh eating bacteriaand if he survives, they're going to
(52:54):
have to cut off huge portions ofhis skin and do transplants on it.
And then the next day she saidhe had passed away. So well,
I'm fascinating with your investigation. Ireally think testing water and soil out there
(53:14):
is going to be really important toyou. It's either going to give you
answers or give you more questions.Either way, it's going to be very,
very helpful and we're anxious to hearwhat you find out about that.
So yeah, I keep going,move forward as it were, and we're
just about done for the night.I'm hoping to have you back to hear
(53:36):
what you find I would love toand we'll talk more about it. And
folks, I want to thank allof you for being here tonight. We've
heard a fascinating story. Always keepyour mind open as well as your eyes,
take good care of yourselves, loveyour family, have a happy,
happy holidays, and we'll see allof you on the other side. Have
a good night, folks.
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