Paranormal Pendle - Philip Kinsella: Alien Greys and the UFO Deception

Craig Bryant talks with author and UFO expert Philip Kinsells about Alien Greys and the UFO Deception.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best
in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to the Paranormal Pendal Podcast, coming to you from
the heart of Pendle, Witch Country in the northwest of England.
My name is Craig Bryant, author, investigator and collector of stories.
Join me as we take a journey into paranoral, UFO sightings,
cryptozoology and big casts. This is the Paranoral Pendal Podcast.

(01:00):
Welcome to episode fifty three of Paranormal Pendle, broadcasting to
the Paranormal UK Radio Network at PAUK radio dot com.
So I'm delighted to have a returning guest on this episode.
It's not other than mister Philip kinsella well known author,
well known.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Speaker, well known a person of who has a great
understanding and a really great history with UFOs and UAPs
and aliens and so on. So it's great to have
you on. Philip. How are you this morning, because we're
actually doing the Morning One today, aren't.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
We If we are indeed, and we got there in
the end, and I'm so honored to be back on
your show. Craig, the Paranormal pendle always a great pleasure.
So I've been fine. Like most people, I've been busy.
I'm trying at the moment to complete a new project,
a book on incarnation and reincarnation, looking into the deeper

(02:00):
aspects of the avatar, and and so that that's I
have a publisher for that already, and then of course
completing a few assignments articles on the UFO u AP subject. So,
like most trying to get things done. And of course
it sounds all glamorous from the outside when it's packaged
and it's all out there, but believe you me, when

(02:21):
you're in the eye of the hurricane, it's a very
different story completely.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
I think it's I think it's definitely a balancing act,
and it's a juggling act trying to find time to
do everything, and especially when when if you don't mind
me saying, Philip, you are so well known in the
UFO UFP circles. You're obviously hugely in demand, your books
sell very well. You know you You you obviously have

(02:50):
a lot of a lot of projects on the goal
at once, so it must be quite difficult to balance
them all. And and of course a bit of a
personal life which we all have.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
Yes, well, I doubt very much if I have that personal
life because most of the time it's consumed with all
other things. But all of us have to live and
survive on a biological level. I've got a sense of
humor that I'll use that but thank you for that.
But I always see as all important. And you know,
it's very strange creat because I never had any real
wish to get involved on a deeper level or the

(03:22):
aspects of your pology that all came by chance many
long years ago. But I think, like yourself, all of
us remotely interested in varied errors of what we call
the paranormal or uap UFO research tends to send you
down that rabbit hole. And I think that you know,
for all of us, we're looking for the ultimate truth,

(03:42):
and that is the underlying factor with all of the
research that we're all encompassed within. So it is challenging,
and you know, especially when you have varied opinions within
the UFO Department of Study, which is quite normal and
very accepted, but unfortunately one side can't always please the other.
But thankfully, I've always been an individual who has been

(04:05):
open to every form of speculation, I've had some people
telling me how it is and what it is, and
I merely not and you know, accept their terminology of it.
But to be honest with you, we don't know. We
All we have is theoretical content and patterns, and of
course elements of proof as in terms of like film

(04:31):
footage or radar recordings or anything like this. And even
then we're still not sure what we're dealing with because
there's no way of our side that's being able to
ascertain just what it is that we are dealing with.
So I think there's a lot of fun in the
chase there, Craig. I think that's you know, we don't
want to know the answers, I don't think, because we'll
be all out of a job, if that's what you

(04:51):
call it a job.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
How did it all start for you then, Philip.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yeah, well, I mean, now looking back at it, this
all began. When I say we, I mean my identical
twin brother and myself were very young, about five years
of age, and there were memories, distinct memories of events
that were extremely bizarre. But the reality of the UFO phenomena,

(05:19):
and i'll call them UFOs, I know that there's a
distinction between UFO and UAP Unidentified aerial phenomena, which is
another researcher Barry Fitzgerald and Steve Mirav said, is really
much close to home in terms of the earthly explanation.
But my twin brother and I were thirteen years of
age and staying with our maternal grandparents in fell To, Middlesex.

(05:42):
They lived in a very big house by a very
small stream and embankment, and one summer's day, I think
it may have been in the early early evening or
maybe just after noon, We're not sure. Remember, we were
thirteen years of age trying to record and recall everything
at that stage. We didn't do really in terms of

(06:04):
time because we didn't think it would be of any
real relevance. But there was an appearance of a silver
orb about the size of a football in broad daylight
that came over within the sky and threw towards our garden.
It was directed intelligently, and it came over our grandmother's
head and appeared roughly where this second floor windows were,

(06:29):
because the house was three stories high, and just hovered there.
And I remembered my twin brother and I being absolutely
mesmerized and confused, and our grandmother was just like blase
about it. We asked her about it and she said, oh, look,
the fairies had come to take a closer look at us,
and we knew that it wasn't the fairies. I'm not

(06:49):
disputing the reality of that connection there, but to us
it was like something from Doctor Who. And then, of
course you suffer because of the event of other so
called experts with it that follow the official narrative telling you, well,
it's because you're imaginative, And my argument is, okay, so
you need to be a blank personality to see one

(07:11):
of these objects. I think that is totally irrelevant. But
that then fueled this passion, is drive to take myself
to the local library and to fish out because of
course we didn't have any money, and of course the
only way you could read books was to borrow them
from the library, and that's what I did, and I

(07:32):
used to spend me and my body used to spend
saturdays working on our own little projects. Mine was on UFOs,
namely the Roswell crash and other bizarre occurrences, and my
brother did projects on robots because he's very much into
technology and robotics. But the true horror of what happened

(07:53):
to me occurred in the winter of nineteen eighty nine. Now,
granted that every single event far from that period I
have categorically recorded with dates and times, so there wasn't
a great many of them, but they when they did
come in that means the UFO phenomena. Let me tell
you it was up close and personal. But it was
in the winter of nineteen eighty nine when we lived

(08:13):
in the village of Mastermore tame a winter night coming
back in December, and I had what they called an abduction.
I'm not going to go into detail with that crave
because it's too far long winded, and I've been through
that so many times, but let's just say that there
was one part of the experience. When I'd got into

(08:33):
the house, my brother and my sister were there. We
lived in a culdi sack, most of the doors raw
frosted glass, beautiful frosted glass to the front of the
house as well, and that generated the appearance of a
gray type being that came through the door of the house.
When the atmosphere started to become very strange and my

(08:56):
brother went into a trance, who was standing in front
of me and raised his head to the ceiling and said,
there's going to be an earthquake, or Grandma's going to die.
The dog was going wild, and then the appearance of
this thing that came through the glass of the door.
That there was a light before that, but in the
early hours of the morning later on, I found myself
being taken through through the glass doors to the house

(09:17):
and outside. And subsequent to that, there was an abduction
that occurred that was very disturbing. The last part of
that abduction really scared the hell out of me, because
the last gray that I saw, uniform gray, seemed to
be mimicking what my brother had done earlier in the
evening and in the dining area, where he raised his

(09:39):
head and went into a kind of chance and said
there's going to be an earthquake or Grandma's going to die.
But the Great, when I asked him a question to
try to prove to me how they're able to get
us through solid matter, seemed to scramble something in him,
and he raised his head underneath his craft and started
to rasp some unintelligent, unintelligible electronics that reminded me of

(10:01):
the voice. The size we had Frosadic's eighty one many
years ago, and subsequent to that, I then wanted to
find out, you know, about the alien abduction and why.
I and many other people led to believe that it
happened on a very physical level of integration. But this
led them in nineteen ninety six to a theoretical model
about consciousness, the soul, the dangers and cloning what the

(10:23):
Grays may represent. So that that's, in a nutshell, how
it all began.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Craig, So, what do you think the Grays are?

Speaker 4 (10:36):
Philip, Yes, the penultimate question, and I don't Yeah, the
big question, and I can tell you right now, I
don't know, but I do have some theories. And the
only way I can explain it is that when you
get involved with any form of paranormal research, you start

(10:56):
off very much in the basic stages of it, I
either nuts some factor of it, and as you go
along and you start to discover more or experience more,
you go through a period of transmutation. There is a
change within your thinking, There is an evolution within the
way that you view reality because you're starting to make

(11:17):
connections that weren't previously made available to you. The Grays
themselves you know, I've had people telling me what they are,
where they come from, even their names and their levels
of high command. I lose the plot there. I'm more
interested in the deeper theoretical aspect of what these things are. Now,
there are varied opinions, and I'm open to every single

(11:38):
one of them. But in nineteen ninety six I had
and experienced what I could only term as and I
suppose would be a download. I remembered since nineteen eighty
nine through to that period, I wanted desperately to work
out how it was the grays were able to remove
me from my biological form and take me through solid matter,

(12:02):
as though creating some kind of altered composite that I
would be matched by their frequency. Now, in nineteen ninety six,
I remembered I'd been at work and I had this download.
I was literally working, and then all of these ideas
started coming into my head. It was like I had
the answer. I'm not saying it is the answer, but
to me on a personal level, it was like wow.

(12:24):
It was one of those big wow factor I suppose,
you know, when they had a signal coming from space,
you know, and it's like wow. So I remember jotting
it all down, and then I went home and wrote
it out, send it to a magazine, a leading magazine
then Alien Encounters, and they accepted it and called it
revolutionary only with an its speculative content, but it dealt
with the inherent dangers of cloning. And this led me

(12:49):
into the study of the afterlife consciousness. I'm not saying
the grades are connected to those in what we call
the afterlife, but this brought into the question of incarnation
and reincarnations. So the Grays seem to be clones or copies.
They don't seem to have any personality, no emotions, no feelings,

(13:10):
no understanding of time, of color, of taste, of smell,
of love. And it's interesting that the Grays allegedly are
interested in our reproductive processes. And we hear a lot
about the hybridization program that it was meant to be

(13:30):
in or still is being implemented by the Grays, or
so we hear from certain other contacts or abductees that is,
or experiences. And I thought, well, why would an extraterrestrial
species be interested in the aspect of replication of cloning
when they themselves cannot replicate? And how is it that

(13:53):
they're able to get us through solid matter. So this
then led me into the theoretical content of us as
human beings, what we may really represent, which I believe,
I know, part biological, part spiritual if I use that
word very lightly. I'm not going down the religious ideological
section there because that creates problems. But take away the

(14:16):
manufactured or the false version of religion that we've all
been fed. I think the original version is far more
fantastic for anyone to consider. But I do understand that
we go through a birthing cycle. We come in with
little or non memory of where our original source of
origin was, and we go through this life creating memories

(14:39):
and experiences, and then we go out. And of course
during this period within the research going past nineteen ninety six,
I then got involved with a lot of psychic connections, clairvoyants,
remote viewers, that type of thing, because I thought, well,
the answers might lie there as opposed to the initials

(15:00):
space man theory coming from another planet not some balts
theoretical aspects. And the grays also if they are able
to come into our dimension like specters ghosts I suppose,
because they're reported to go through wars and doors and
that type of thing. Then shortly they must be operating
on a level where they're bringing us, the real essence

(15:20):
of us into their dimension of reality and trying to
make this a little bit short here, if you explore
the near death experience, I realized back in nineteen ninety
six that the nd that a person experiences that means
to say that someone dies physically, and then they experience
going into a light in most cases communicating with loved

(15:43):
ones vitelepathy, existing in a timeless, spaceless state of awareness,
and if there is any wrong, anything wrong with their
body that they left behind i e. Diseased or corrupted
in some way that in most cases are reversible. When
they return, when their consciousness, their soul, whatever you want
to call it, returns to its biological form, there is

(16:06):
normally a correction within the cellular composition of the body,
which means that they heal, they become re energized, healthy.
So I considered here that the grays when they're taking you,
they're actually taking the real escence of you into their
domain mother like an NDE, and whatever they do to you,
because you're still to a degree attached to the biological counterpart.

(16:29):
Your blueprint is just temporarily removed from it. Whatever they
the Grays do to it will invariably affect it. I
in implants and that type of thing. So I think
that the Grays are looking for something that they don't have.
And this is interesting because we seem so far removed
from them in terms of our empathic nature, in terms

(16:51):
of what we are as human beings reproductive species, and
if they're creating a hybridization program, this may, I suppose
suggest to a degree, we can theoretically assume that they're
interested in the soul consciousness that spark of the divinity
that we have that they don't, and if they have
gone through a process of self replication, then it's possible

(17:15):
that they have on some level counciled themselves out of creation.
Now there's a very interesting part to this, Craig, that
got me thinking even more, and I have actually mentioned
this interrestrial trespassed as the new book that finnam Mental's
brought out through Flying Dispress. If we go back into
the past with regards to Genesis, which really interests me

(17:39):
because like you and many other people, it's not just
about the ufouap phenomena. It's also about a lot of
other subject matters that have been hidden from us, namely
from a system that is utilizing its own control and
mental subjugation. But when you start digging into the past,
you find a completely different story with regards to the

(18:02):
creation mythos as we call it mythos, that's how it's
been generated from the system that we serve in, most
notably within the religious factions that are connected very powerfully
to a lot of people. So in heyday, I mean,
you know, if we think about it very simply, most
people were conditioned within the churches. Fear was promoted, and

(18:26):
if anyone stepped out of line by using their mind
in a different way than they were considered to be
a witch and burnt or drowned, so as an example
to others to stay in order to keep in check
and to not think outside the box. So if we
go back into the antidivilian cultures, we understand and I

(18:48):
believe this hypothesis it makes more sense than the God
hypothesis or I'm not counseling out God, is that we
were created and generated by extraterrestrials what we would call
extraterrestrials or even more advanced antidivilian culture that was here
long before we came along through our creation, and the
story goes I'm sure you're aware, is that the gods

(19:10):
as we would call them, perhaps very much like us,
but slightly different. I suppose didn't want to create a
species through the hominid genetically that could reproduce. But of
course this is what happened. But I wonder on some
level of whether or not these gods have been on

(19:30):
another star system and created another species that could not reproduce.
What if they were on a world where they created
the grays and they, you know, the gods came here
or you know, to many other worlds, I suppose, and
that these grays have found us and are interested in
why it is that we have been made and evolved

(19:52):
so differently from them, and that we can reproduce. That's
just another example that I've used within the book. We
know about the remote viewing hypothesis, us from the future hypothesis,
the demonic hypothesis. It's all there and I'm embracing all
of it. So it's a good question, Craig, But I
can assure you that we're still no, why is it

(20:13):
in understanding what it is? But the other thing we
have to take very gently is that the grays, to
my mind, are able to morph themselves into our mythology,
our culture, and also into our fiction, which is very interesting.
So we may be dealing with something that's far beyond
our current level of understanding totally.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
So well, there's an awful lot to unpack there.

Speaker 4 (20:36):
Oh absolutely, I'm sorry. I didn't want to load that
on your life.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Oh no, that's absolutely fine. I am. I am frantically
scribbling down notes as you were talking. I mean, it's
fascinating subject. I'm interested in your theorism and your hypothesis
about ancient religions and the notion of the gods created,

(21:01):
creating us, and perhaps creating the grays as well. When
we're looking back at ancient religions, there's obviously a lot
of crossover between different ancient religions from different different parts
of the globe. Yeah, you see images of what looks
like a sort of bipedal creature satin sort of UFO,

(21:28):
sort of circular around type of of of U foes,
do you.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (21:38):
You see them, You see them in different different freezes
on different ancient relics, different ancient buildings, and so on.
So I'm just I'm just sort of wondering where you
think these gods come into it all, apart from apart
from creating us, Where did they come from? What was

(21:59):
what was the Are they still around? Are they still
visiting us? Yes?

Speaker 4 (22:05):
Well, yeah, that's debatable enough. Yeah, I think that they
are Addavilian cultures. You know, if we go into ancient
cuneiforms and codexes as well codices, we find a lot
of hidden meaning and messages that tell us that we
as the human species, is much older than we've currently

(22:26):
been told, and within varied epochs that we can record,
each civilization has been met by disaster or total destruction.
So it's possible that these so called gods as we
would call them, although I suppose they could live much
longer than us, because my understanding is that through their

(22:49):
hybridization or cloning program, reproductive program with a human here
on earth in gan Eden, and there were many I
think production areas where it wasn't just in Eden, in
Africa or these places. I think that these gods wanted

(23:11):
to create a slave labor force, and I think much
has changed today because humanity seems to be caught within
that will of being a slave to the system, a
servant to the system. It's interesting. It's possible that these
so called gods and there could be varied factions of them.
I suppose we have to be open to the fact

(23:31):
that are we dealing with one species, one entity that
has branched out like humans. We don't know, but it
could be that they have been on our planet for
a very very very long time. Indeed, and I don't
doubt that they perhaps had come from the stars or
from another dimension. Let's bring that theory into the equation.

(23:55):
And you know, because if you look at the human
we are so ill equipped. If we are to believe
in Darwin's evolutionary system, I don't buy that in terms
of us as the human evolving from the ape, because
we still have apes today and we are so far
removed from the ape, I mean, bipedal we are, but

(24:18):
we are ill adapted to survive on this planet. We
wouldn't be able to survive if we were natural inhabitants
from the planet and gone through this set evolutionary cycle.
It's impossible. I mean, you know, if you think about it.
We don't have enough hair on our body. We shy
from our very own sun. You know, we just wouldn't
be able to survive within the elements if this was

(24:40):
all termed evolutionary, because we would have adapted to the environment.
But I do believe that there was some kind of
cross breeding or experimentation with the hominid I.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Ed.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
Eight or some kind of chimpanzee or monkey or something
like that. I think more in terms of the ape
and then modified part with the animal and then part
with what we were term mixed to terrestrial and infusion
of the two. And of course, when we go back
into the ancient past, when we look at what we

(25:12):
consider in its original version that we believe that we've
got in front of us of the Bible, it's not
We have to understand the Bible had been written by
many different authors and a lot of what was recorded
within the Holy Books has been absolutely changed, remodified. There
was no mention in the Bible of a god. There
were mentioned of species of the Anunaki, of the Nephilim,

(25:38):
of these angels that were quite brutal. To be honest
with you, and of course you'll be horrified because most
people in the system have been programmed, and to challenge
their belief system would be absolutely monumentally destructive because they
will have conscious dissidents. They will not want to change
our belief system. You can't blame them. But when you

(26:00):
find out that the system that we serve has categorically
lied and from each stage making us believe that there
are no such things as extraterrestrials, angels, gods, whatever you
want to call it. There's no such thing as life
after death. My argument is this, Craig, what on earth

(26:20):
is the big problem in this Why is it that
the system continuously refutes other than a few bits of
that are dripped into the media cartel or a little
bit of revelation, doesn't lead us any further to the
truth of what we're looking into. So, like yourself, like
myself and many other good researchers, brilliant researchers out there,

(26:43):
we're left scratching our head and we just have the
theoretical content. But lastly, the film Prometheus to do with
the Alien. Of course, I love the Alien film, and
you know, of course the Aliens, they were the two
of the good films. But the Prometheus was answering the
same question who created the alien? And then we find

(27:03):
out that it was the so called gods and that
they didn't know, and you know, it led to the scientists,
the female scientist at the end, having to go off
to find where these so called humanoid gods were to
find the answer there. So it's quite a big question.
But we do know that the phenomena is here. It's real,

(27:25):
but it's not operating on the parallels that we would
imagine in terms of coming from another planet. I'm not
disputing that some may, but the large proportion of cases
stipulates that we are dealing I think with an intermensal
hypothesis here.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, it's interesting to talk about religious texts. I mean,
if you look at the New Testament, for instance, it's
well known that a lot of the books were actually
written three, four or five hundred years after the events
within the books were supposed to taking place. And I mean,
religion is something that I don't particularly get into on
the podcasts, and I sport to people who've you know,

(28:03):
who've referenced it. I recently interviewed the Reverend Allison Shane's
who obviously touched on religion quite a bit. But I'm
I'm quite interested about you mentioned earlier on about reincarnation
and us life memories. I'm quite interested how that all

(28:26):
fits into the whole tapestry of what's going on with
the grays.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
Yes, well, we have inherent memory, or that we have
memories not from here. Now, there's been the argument that
within the scientific fraternity that all that's happening is that
we are collating the memories through a genetic level, through
the passing of genes. That is impossible because if that
was the case, we would be neurologically defunct because there'll
be too much in there to store. The question is

(28:56):
interesting and debatable about the process of reincarnation. We don't
know how it happened or the process involved. Indeed, with
those who have crossed over, we do understand that there
is a form of conscious connection from their realm to ours,
but we don't know what happens to them in the
core of that experience. But I do understand that we
create memory, and that's the only thing as the human

(29:21):
that we carry with us throughout our life. Even if
that memory is being corrupted through some kind of devastating
illness like dementia or Alzheimer's your biological system is still
recording through the influx of conscious awareness. Rather like a
mobile phone, you've got the physical hardware and you've got
the signal, which is the phone a little bit of energy,
as we have energy to make us get up and go,

(29:42):
and consciousness which helps us brings that in animation into
this biological sphere. So if you damage your phone, the
signal will still be pure. It will still record, transmit
and receive information to a degree if it's able to
do that, but record definitely, And if your phone should die,
that signal is then sent back into the hub of
all the other signals and you can reconnect that information

(30:05):
with a new phone. So I give a very simple
example of how consciousness may work. I think we're all
linked to a degree on a conscious level, that we've
separated the two perhaps billions upon billions of fragments in
order to go through this experience that we are encountering
here on earth, and maybe not just this system of reality.
The reincarnation aspect is interesting. I don't understand how it

(30:29):
is that the human or call it human in this form,
the consciousness of the soul, the spirit would want to
come into the system of reality just for one go
and then return back and that's it. It doesn't make
any sense to me experience, And it doesn't make any
sense to me either if we do go through the
process of choice on the other side to return back

(30:51):
to this world and then put ourselves in a war
torn country or devastating experiences like Alschwitz or something like that.
Why on earth would we go through that? So I
think perhaps there is a problem, or there is some
kind of issue or situation that's occurred in the past
where we seem to be caught in a wheel on

(31:13):
some level. Now, the grays don't seem to exhibit these
connections that we have, like memory that we have that's
so unique to the human because we seem to be
so far removed from the rest of creation in terms
of the animal kingdom, the plant kingdom, or the rest
of it, but also within the areas of the power noormal,

(31:36):
you know, because we hear about the grays and the reptilians,
we hear about the Susquatch, we hear about the dogmen
and the you know, the hat man and all these
other things, and they all seem to operate on an
inter dimensional level and they on most levels. They're able
to communicate on some cases with mind speak and telepathy

(31:57):
for want of a better word. Son know, when we
look at the human obviously there seemed to be some
importance to our evolution. But we come here and then
we have amnesia. We can't remember where we're from unless
the caucial regressed or you have strong memories. I have
a few of what we consider to be past lives,
and the rest of it is very confusing. So but

(32:19):
these other entities that come in, you know, God knows
where they're all coming from. There's so many of them,
but we still have no real proof to grab one
and hold it and say, yes, you are physical. I've
got you. You're standing right in front of me, and
we just don't know. But taking the Grays, for example,
trying to break things down into a simple category. I

(32:40):
say simple with all due respect because it's not. But
in terms of categorizing this whole phenomena from one you
know species or you know alien or cryptozoological being, I think,
looking at the Grays and I had experienced them and
encountered them, I wanted to find out more about what
they were. So I think there's some kind of struggle

(33:04):
or some kind of interest from them in exploring us.
It could even be possible that they are generating these
hybrids to create a new race, to take them to
an altogether different dimension. Because the human species is almost finished,
we have to take that hypothesis into consideration as well.

(33:24):
But with the Grays, it's dark, they seem to hide
within the shadows, and they're able to also, not that
I saw this, but they're able to. On a lot
of cases, is bringing the person who's being abducted, they're
dead relatives on board, and even we hear experiences where
the abductee is seeing soldiers on board. And this is

(33:45):
where I think a lot of confusion can become possible,
with people then believing that it's the military that's connected
with them. And I'm not discounting that there is every
possibility that they are. But the Grays themselves never seem
to give straight answers. They're more interested in how we tick,

(34:06):
how we work, and it's almost like they're digging for
something that they want, you know. And I'm sure there's
some good grades out there. I've never met them. I've
only had the experience with these grades. And there are
the three reptilians on one occasion nineteen eighty nine. There
may have been varied other cases, but I cannot and
will not state that for a fact unless I have

(34:28):
total record of those events. So it's a really good question,
isn't it.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
It is? It is, And as I said, there's an awful
lot to unpack with what's going on here. I'm interested
in past life memories you mentioned, and you know, please
please decline to go into anything too personal. But I
myself have a very strong memory. Well, it started when

(34:57):
I was when I was a child, which I was.
It was a dream or a nightmare, real more than anything,
and it was very vivid, and I do quite strongly
believe that it was a past life memory. I'm just
wondering what your thoughts are on past life memories and
whether you could perhaps share a little bit about perhaps
some of yours, if it's not too personal.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
No, I'm quite happy to do that for you, Craig. Absolutely,
I've got nothing to hide. Yes, I mean, it's interesting
what you term your nightmare of a past life memory,
and I have I have never had any form of
regression or hymnotherapy. One person to try it. God loved
them once, but they couldn't do it. I just could
not be regressed. That's probably why I remembered the entire

(35:41):
aspect of my Dutch phenomena when it occurred. That is possible.
I can't prove that that is the case. But with
regards to past life memories, I do have a few
of them, and I will explain them. They've all been
very depressing, and one of them had been when I
was some kind of tramp and up north somewhere. I

(36:02):
can still see the factory in the distance, and there
seems to have been this kind of like rough ground,
rough terrain, and an old shelter where I hung out.
I wasn't a drinker, but I remembered there was a
lady up not far from where I was that lived
on a hill, and she would come down every day
with her two children and give me a basket of

(36:24):
I can't remember if it was water, but food as well,
and books, because I loved books. The other memory I
have was of India, and this I remembered as a kid,
and the the the visual processing, the emotions have never changed.
But I was a small slave boy. I think I

(36:47):
was probably about five years of age, wearing a dirty
white tunic. I could see my home, which was nothing
more than just like It wasn't even brick, it was
just like white, and it was dirty. And I had
a room upstairs that was a hard bed, and that
was all I had, and I remembered that I didn't
have any The parents either died or they'd gone, I
don't know. But then I remembered seeing the elephants crossing

(37:09):
the river, now that I know to be Gamgy. And
of course, then fast forward and then probably about I
don't know, in my twenties, maybe early thirties, and I'm
working for a master, a very rich man, and I
can still see this bathing area that was all stone
with the gate. And when I opened up this gate

(37:29):
outside it went to the stone area, there was water
and there was another Indian man in this water bathing.
It had a turbined on his head, and I was
his friend, and we spoke, and I remember the cold
connection of the actual building, the taj Mahal, because of
the famous pictures of it, I thought, well, there's another
part to it that I remember, and it was another

(37:51):
gated part with these steps leading up to it. And
sure enough I found that in a book and couldn't
believe it. And this master that I served was very powerful,
and we had this deal where he would have something
within a box on his desk, and the trust was
I would never open that box. Never. But I guess

(38:11):
I run urrands. I remember my death. I seemed to
be under some kind of underground part I don't know
if it was or a lower part to the building,
and I'm laying on a mat and my master's with me,
and there are another another gentleman. I think there were
two other gentlemen there with me, holding my hand as
I obviously became ill, and then I passed over, So

(38:34):
that that that northern one, but I assume was northern
and the Indian one were the most prevalent in terms
of memory. And it it kind of like, you know,
even with the northern one, I could still smell the
the smell of the smog or I don't want I
don't know what you call it, but there was some

(38:54):
kind of like smell within the air that I suppose
if there's factories or something, I don't know. They were
all very depressing and I have to count my blessings
because in this life, you know, we're doing Okay, I'm
blessed with everything I have, but I'm thinking, Dear Lord,
when I get back to the other side, there's two

(39:15):
things I'm going to do. I'm going to get a refund.
I'm going to say to them, what on Earth, underscore,
underscore the Earth? Was that all about? So I think
that to some level. I even saw David Ike talk personally,
see him talk. I didn't meet him because there were
too many people, but he was really brilliant, and he
did make me laugh when he said, well, I won't

(39:38):
use the word he said, but why on Earth? He said,
would I? This is David Ike himself, why would I
keep coming down to this blinking planet? And I kind
of like thought, you know, when he said that, of
all the places, we are tiny dot in this immensity
of space, and it's like, you know, David, I kind
of agree with you, because what is this? What's going

(40:00):
on the here? And of course then we're born into
a world where we're mentally subjugated and to a degree controlled,
and there is nothing really on this planet which is
showing any form of development, nothing to show that we're
getting the best out of many individuals who'd want to
contribute towards our evolution, our species. Nothing, it's it to

(40:22):
my mind, Craig, I'm sure you think the same here.
It is completely and totally backwards. It's what I would
call Noddy's toy Land for me, that blightens one of
our books. It is depressing in some levels, and it's
angry and destructive and I just don't understand that part
of it. I really don't. But those were my well

(40:45):
there were a few others, but those were my incarnation,
major incarnation memories.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, I mean it's certainly a struggle I think for
the vast majority of people that are living on the
planet today. I mean, obviously we are a supposedly developed contrary,
there's obviously people who struggle from day to day who
are living in this country as well.

Speaker 4 (41:06):
Yes, yeah, absolutely, and they're turning people against people and
it's becoming ugly. We know what's going we know what's
going on behind the scenes. We know what they do.
When I say they the powers that be, all the
pappets are just taking their orders from their masters. That's
all that's happening.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
I mean with regards to reincarnation, I mean it's a
very if you believe in reincarnation. It is a very
pertinent question. Why do we keep coming back? Yes, it
would seem to suggest that we actually don't have a choice,
or perhaps we are given various scenarios. You can come

(41:44):
back as this person in this place, you can come
back as that person in that place. You choose, and
you sort of choose the letter of how many evils
you're offered? Yes? Absolutely, you do you hold with that theory?
Do you think do you think that's a possibility. Do
you think there's a higher intelligence which when we do

(42:04):
pass over into the next the next dimension, when our
physical bodies die, we are then given and given that
choice to come back again what we're told were coming back,
but we are given a choice as to what we
come back into.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Oh, absolutely totally. I mean, I you know, we are left,
as I said, to ponder these questions, and it's lovely
to consider all aspects of it because we can't categorically
prove that this is what's happening. But we do have
an idea through these said reports, especially through and I've
done a lot of studying research into nd and I'm
actually linked within their Death Institute anyway. But what's interesting

(42:42):
is that it's possible, Craig, that the decision for us
to incarnate onto this planet, because Earth is unique. I've
got to say to you now, we all know it
is a beautiful planet. It's actually people term it guy,
it's a life support system, and people just oh no,
you know, just you know, it's just a planet. It's
not there is. It is a beautiful planet. It is

(43:02):
absolutely stunning. But there's a lot that's gone wrong here.
And I think going back into Genesis, even the beginning
of what we consider to be time, through our awakening,
our awareness, there's always been trouble and it's possible that
the lighter forces on the other side that many other
people are sent as kind of like and you know,

(43:24):
everyone's important, and you know, you have to be very
careful with how you work things because everyone's offended literally
by anything. Come on, grow a backbone. We're all human.
You've got in mind. Let's argue this out constructively. You know,
it could be that they have sent ambassadors here to
bring about this correction to this planet. That many, many,

(43:46):
many people who are going through this awakening or stages
of remembrance recall are here to try to change the
evil that is happening on this and I have to
state that word categorically. It is evil because you know,
a lot of things now are coming to the fore
I won't mention them here, and a lot of people are, uh,

(44:09):
you know, removing themselves from the official narrative where they
can see that there are massive holes in them and
the infrastructure is trying so hard to keep a clamp
down on us. So I believe that there are some
alternate forces, darker forces, if you will, there's operating within
this system of reality, because Earth is unique and it
could have been hijacked, and that there is every possibility

(44:32):
to consider this because you know, we're finding and we're
seeing that most of the time all this world is
interested in his power, money and destruction. It doesn't have
any you know, want for peace, for progression, for spiritual advancement.
All that's happening is that we are being dumb down

(44:53):
and in every opportunity where someone, some brilliant minds somewhere
can can bring a new theory or new piece of
technology to the table that will help us, No, no, no,
it's got to be the system's way, which is you know, money, money, money, power.
And then if you step out of line will crush you.
I do feel and believe there is a darker force here.

(45:15):
I will say it. I do, and I think this
darker force has been here for a very long time
and operating behind the scenes, and it's aware of those
individuals who are awakened or coming here to try to
change things in the very small ways. I'll give you
an example, Craig, I just want to ask you this.
If you've ever experienced this, it was a little experiment

(45:37):
I performed many years ago when I was a kid.
And you know, you get it. You wake up in
the morning, you think, right today, I'm going to be
the most positive, constructive Indian. I'm going to help every
infectional I'm going to go out there and I'm going
to shine my light. I'm going to just help people
in the world. And what happens as soon as you
go dancing down that lane, I suppose a little bit

(46:00):
like little Red riding hood and in the distance is
the wolf watching her with you know, very eager eyes.
As soon as you go down that path, you find
every single horrible thing that could go wrong or happen. Yeah,
and I wonder, I wonder if take this as an
example and people laugh. But I don't think that we

(46:22):
should laugh, because conscious experimentation psych experimentation has been going
on with military factions, indeed with the secret scientific industrial complexes.
I wonder if there is some kind of I have
this vision in my head and it's only a vision,
maybe a fantasy. It could be a reality, who knows.

(46:42):
But I have the scene of all these you know,
people in a basement somewhere with all these massive computers,
and they're, oh, look, there's a dot coming up here.
It's Craig. He's operating outside of those normal parameters of
conscious control. What's happening here? We've got to bring him
back down into the mold. We can't have him out
there like that. Or it's possible as well that when

(47:06):
you think about and just changing the subjects slightly, just
something for you to think about here, Craig. And I've
also mentioned this is that those people, those individuals who
are rebelling against the normal processing of control, of the
official narrative of them taking their own lead in life
and operating within their own spiritual levels and becoming brighter

(47:30):
and more lighter and more connected with their divinity, that
the system will then send their agents of darkness to
go in and check them out. And I think a
lot of people on individuals are brighter, are lighter within
their own evolution, their own pathway. And it's possible that

(47:51):
because they are operating outside of the normal processing of
how people operate within life as the system would like it,
it's possible that these agents could actually send those what
we call UFOs or those those other forces in to
go and check us out, to see why are you
different from you know that person there? What's making you
tick differently? You see what I mean? You have to

(48:13):
take into all areas of consideration with regards to this
and I and anyone that's starting to remove themselves from
the official line, from the official narrative. And you know,
it's interesting how they find that their path is so
hardened by a lot of negativity, a lot of destruction,

(48:33):
almost almost trying to bring them to the needs to say,
do you know what, I give up? I'm going back
to the way I was.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, I've
definitely been being days were when everything can go wrong
has gone wrong, you know. And my wife Sarah's come
home from work and she said, how's you Dereben and
I said, well, you won't believe it. This appened, this atom,
this happened. And I've started off in a particularly good

(48:59):
mood and by the end of the day IVE ended
up in a particularly bad mood. Everything's just everything's just
gone wrong. Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's interesting. It's interesting.
I I wonder, I mean, we're just would You were
talking before about about science fiction and about about Prometheus

(49:22):
the film, and I did find I did find the
subject matter interesting. I didn't particularly enjoy the film. I'm
not a film critic, and I did feel that it
sort of destroyed a lot of the mythology of the
original alien films, which were just amazing. But I wonder
when you look at things like, you know, you look

(49:43):
at Star Trek, you look you look at Babylon Five,
for instance, which was a particular series that I really
enjoyed because it seemed to be a little bit more
you know, possibly life as to what we could be,
you know, spacefaring wise in the future. Yeah, and the

(50:05):
Expanse as well was another one which which was very lifelike.
I think in that respect, do you think that we
are being sort of drip fed these types of this
type of science fiction in order to sort of prime
us for what what they know we are going to
evolve into in the future.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
Yes, it's possible, and I think a lot of scriptwriters,
screenwriters and film producers are very clever. I think that
sometimes they can subtly put most of this messaging in
and people say, oh, it's all science fiction. Well think
about this. I've just spoken to a good friend of
mine and we were talking about the Grays and he said,
you know that they remind me the classic one of

(50:45):
the the alien that's in the last credits of Star Trek,
the original series of Star Trek, the face of it.
And someone else told me just recently at a conference.
They said that there was an episode within Star Trek
that we understand that my brother's covered this as well,
that beat me up Scotti or the transportation of humans

(51:07):
from one planet back up to their ship or another
planet is done through teleportation. And of course, within the
field of yourphology, we find very strangely that the phenomena
seems to have upped its program way back from the
nineteen forties, and when we go into the late fifties
and sixties, we find that the phenomena seems to be

(51:30):
utilizing some kind of like ideas that we had within
the film industry. So whether or not this force is
operating deep within another level and you know, appears or transforms,
translates itself within our fiction, within our mythology, is another

(51:50):
good question, another good point to address. I know that
the brilliant Jack Valet has already covered these grounds with
regards to the aliens being fairies and then this and
then that, and evolving within the way that they appear
to the people in the future. It's possible they may
be something very different. So we don't know, but certainly

(52:11):
a lot of the ideas that we have within the
film industry are absolutely incredible and I think are important
because we need to be inspired, we need to question,
and I think a lot of the times, say, for instance,
there's a film that I do like, although I'm not
a fan of the whole of it, but the ending
of it was pretty spectacular. Was Indiana Jones and the
Crystal Skull, I think it was. And at the end

(52:34):
when the ship was coming out of the ground the
Aztec building, it was all collapsing and it had come up.
I thought that was pretty spectacular the way that that
was done. And of course when this ship disappeared, you
could tell straight away it was going into an interdimensional
level of reality just flicked out very quickly. So I

(52:54):
believe that, you know, when we deal with science fiction,
it draws very closely to science fact. It seems that
our ideas, or our consciousness in terms of creation with
the mind in thinking, seems to evolve towards this level
where what we consider to be science fiction does actually
turn out to be science fact in the future. It's

(53:15):
kind of ironic, I think to some degree. You know
that now people are beginning to realize that, you know,
we've moved so far in terms of where we have
been in the past. But still the question from the
system will refute, absolutely categorically refuse that there is anything
other than the human and that there is no such

(53:38):
thing as life after death. And I know I've mentioned
this once before, and I'm mentioning again here. I cannot
get my head round it. It's like, what is the
big problem unless unless there is a part of this
which will truly disturb your average individual out on the

(53:59):
street that because they've been programmed already by a system
to refute such claims that now, oh, yes, ladies and gentlemen,
aliens are real, and so are UFOs. Now uap strangely,
but we're going to tell you now that we're not
sure if they come from another planet. But there's a

(54:19):
whole lot more that we've got to open the can
of worms towards with regards to this. So I think
that even then they'll be huge lawsuits and people laugh,
but their will and I'm you know, I don't have
the money to do it. But if the system agreed
and said yes, UFOs are real, they're not going to
say they lie to us. They're going to make any

(54:40):
excuse up. But what about all the damages that's occurred
to those individuals that be moped on television, those original cases,
with those individuals who on levels have gone through some
kind of psychological issues, emotional issues through the advent of
coming forward and being honest to them being told by
the system that they don't exist. And then of course

(55:00):
I'm turning around and turning it all back on it
on its head. I mean, you know, I think this
is going to be huge, But I think there is
a lot more, so much more than just the UFO
and alien hypothesis. I think this is going to lead
us into areas that will remind us we're dealing with
something far deeper and more structured, and it's not just

(55:21):
an isolated event. It's been here for a very long time.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
Yeah, I think it's unlikely that they're going to turn
around towards the government's going to turn around to as
any time soon and say, well, actually, what we've been
telling you for the last two thousand years, and what
religion has been telling you for the last two thousand
years is actually is actually wrong.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
That's right, You've got it.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's highly unlikely because
there will be just a mass panic. But I don't
think people will be able to deal with, you know,
the revelation that we are not alone in the universe.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
And also of the fact, if I just put in
here very quickly that you know, oh, yes, we're dealing
with physical crafts. Well, yes, they've they've been known to crash,
but in a lot of cases, and the cases that
I know and with some researchers, is that when they've
done a report and analysis of the materials, there's a
lot of earth materials in there, but also something else
that's very strange, and it could be possible that these

(56:16):
forces are building themselves up into our reality. That means
to say that they are creating a composite of what
this earth is to build themselves here and a little
bit of themselves. So I'm not disputing that. I believe
they have bodies on ice. I believe that they have
the hardware material that they can't work out or so
we assume. That's another area of contemplation in terms of

(56:38):
back engineer technology. I'm not going down that road. I'm
open to it, but that just confuses the issue even more.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Reverse engineering is a whole whole question itself. Well, we've
had I really don't know where to start with all
that feeling, because a massive amount to take in there
and to digest, and you know, the whole subject to
me is incredibly interesting, Yes, incredibly perplexing. I think you've

(57:08):
explained a lot of it so eloquently. I think it's
hopefully I know that I'm going to go away and
do a lot of thinking about this. I hope that
people who listen to the podcast will as well. Just again,
very quickly, remind me about terrestrial trespassers briefly, what's in
the book?

Speaker 4 (57:27):
Yes, the book en Campus is not just my nineteen
eighty nine event. Again, I wanted to really captivate the
rawness of the experience, but it also looks at areas
of abduction of places of high strangeness, and also categorically
trying to formulate several hypotheses with regards to what we
may be dealing with, and also bringing into the ancient

(57:48):
alien hypothesis, but with a difference and how the grades
are able to infiltrate our plane of reality and secrete
themselves within not only our consciousness but also within our world.
So that is, in a nutshell, what the book is about.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Yeah, andre's the book available? Is it available on the
usual places Amazon and so on?

Speaker 4 (58:09):
Yes? Yes, I mean my other books are out of
print that were published by other publishers were through contract,
and well all books are published through contract. The book
is available on Amazon from Philip Mantle's Flang Dispress. It's
available as hardback, paperback, Kendall and audio as well. So
and that's that's out there at the moment.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Who reads who is the audio? Is it you good self?

Speaker 4 (58:32):
Or oh no, no, no, there is I mean I
I know that, like with most of us, I've been
joked that. You know, people say, well, you can talk,
but I hope that you know. What I talk about
is kind of like sensible stuff and trying, and I'm
no wiser to any of it. But the audio version
itself was done by Russ Williams, a narrator called Russ Williams,

(58:58):
so he is the narrator, got a lovely voice. But
I don't think that I would do the book any
justice with me talking about my own things. I'd rather
someone else talk about it high behind the wall somewhere
all a SETI But yeah, the books are available there,
and I'm very honored, very grateful, very touched by not
just the publication of the books or the work or

(59:19):
the research, but also with all of the other great
minds within the world that we're connected with trying to
fatherm out what it is, and you will find I'll
just say here that when you start dealing with the
elements of the ufou AP phenomena, it will lead you
down other areas. You will not be contained within one
mainframe of the subject, unless, of course, you are blessed

(59:41):
be to you the nuts and bolts person who wants
to see it that way, which is nothing wrong with
that at all, because you know, there seems to be
a composite of two aspects to it. That's what we're
looking into.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
And do you want to give you your own podcast
the plug.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
Yes, it's Twin Souls Past the poan normal UK radio network.
And we also have my when I say we, my
twin brother and I my identical twin brother, and I
have a website which is www dot the Canseeller Twins
dot com. And I have mine, which is the Psychic One,
which is www dot Philipkinseller dot com. So quite quite simple.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
Yeah, excellent, Thank you, well, thanks for coming on, Philip.
It's been it's been an absolute pleasure, as I say,
an awful lot to think about. I do apologize, no,
I've found it extremely interesting. I must admit it's been
great to talk to you. Thank you for coming on, Philip,
and we'll hopefully speak again soon and take care.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Thank you very much, Thank you very much. Craig, it's
an honor, Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
You can visit my website at www dot Craig Brownt
dot co dot uk. Paranormal Pendle will return and remember
to keep watching the shadows, then

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
The