August 25, 2022 • 42 mins
What does it mean to decolonize your spirituality? In this episode of Parenting Decolonized, I speak with Ally Henny, a writer, speaker, podcast host, and Master of Divinity who writes and speaks about race, identity, culture, and racial concilation. Listen in as Ally and I talk about how to decolonize your spirituality and raise liberated free-thinkers.
This episode was recorded during our Conscious Parenting for Social Justice Conference back in June 2021. Consider this a taste of what you’ll experience during the Rona, Racism, and Radical Parenting Conference coming up this September 23rd-25th, 2022!
In this episode, we talk about…
The intersection between race, social justice, spirituality, and conscious parenting.
As a spiritual or religious person, how do we navigate hierarchies of power?
How to balance gaining trust from your child while modeling mistakes and apologizing.
How do the dynamics of my household’s relationships impact my parenting?
How do I reconcile the atrocities committed in the name of religion and still hold onto religious, social justice, and decolonization practices?
….and more!
Are you registered for the Rona, Racism, and Radical Parenting Conference yet?
Go to https://parentingdecolonized.lpages.co/tickets/ to get your early bird tickets and get $40 off!
Don't forget to share, rate, and let me know what you think of this week's episode on Facebook and Instagram!
To connect further with Ally:
Visit her website: https://allyhenny.com
Follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/allyhenny
Follow her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/thearmchaircom
Connect with her on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/allyhennypage
Follow her on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theallyhenny
Listen to Combing the Roots Podcast: https://allyhenny.com/podcast
This episode was recorded during our Conscious Parenting for Social Justice Conference back in June 2021. Consider this a taste of what you’ll experience during the Rona, Racism, and Radical Parenting Conference coming up this September 23rd-25th, 2022!
In this episode, we talk about…
The intersection between race, social justice, spirituality, and conscious parenting.
As a spiritual or religious person, how do we navigate hierarchies of power?
How to balance gaining trust from your child while modeling mistakes and apologizing.
How do the dynamics of my household’s relationships impact my parenting?
How do I reconcile the atrocities committed in the name of religion and still hold onto religious, social justice, and decolonization practices?
….and more!
Are you registered for the Rona, Racism, and Radical Parenting Conference yet?
Go to https://parentingdecolonized.lpages.co/tickets/ to get your early bird tickets and get $40 off!
Don't forget to share, rate, and let me know what you think of this week's episode on Facebook and Instagram!
To connect further with Ally:
Visit her website: https://allyhenny.com
Follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/allyhenny
Follow her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/thearmchaircom
Connect with her on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/allyhennypage
Follow her on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theallyhenny
Listen to Combing the Roots Podcast: https://allyhenny.com/podcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This podcast is brought to you bythe RONA Racism and Radical Parenting Virtual Conference
happening on September twenty third to twentyfifth. It is designed to help equip
you with the knowledge and practical adviceyou need to manage your triggers, yell
less, connect more, and raiseliberated, emotionally well children. Click the
link in the show notes for earlybird registration and save forty dollars off your
(00:23):
ticket. Today. Hey, fam, today's episode is recording from my Conscious
Parenting for Social Justice conference that happenedback in June of twenty twenty one.
I'm going to be speaking with speakerand writer Ali Henny to discuss how to
decolonize our spirituality and raise liberated freethinkers. I just want to give y'all
(00:45):
the taste of what to expect fromthe RONA Racism and Radical Parenting Conference happening
in September, so don't forget toclick the link in the show notes and
save forty dollars off your early birdticket. With that said, let's dive
right into this amazing conversation with Alie. I have been sharing all of your
amazing content so much on my page. People probably are like what's going on?
(01:08):
Is she over here promoting for Ali? I'm just like no, she
says the truth all the time,and I always been an't up. But
everybody I see something just like,yes, I have to share it.
I don't care if that if Ijust shared a moment ago, I'm sharing
again. Can you tell us alittle bit about your personal history and how
(01:29):
you came into this work. Yeah, So that's actually like a really long,
complicated story. But the Cliff's noteversion of it is, I grew
up in Room, Missouri, ina predominantly white town. So I grew
up, you know, experiencing seeing, having the family history of just a
lot of racism, and so asI went off to went off to college
(01:53):
and moved and do different things asan adult, those experiences were something that
I always carried with me. Ontop of my family. My mother in
particular, was very intentional about educatingme about who I was as a person,
and was very very intentional about centeringblackness in our home and in our
(02:15):
experience. And so I grew upwith a tremendous amount of self love in
terms of my blackness. But thenbeing in a world surrounded by whiteness,
where that was where that was inconflict, and so I am. I
am a Christian minister. I havea degree in a Master of Divinity.
It's kind of like it's all likethat sounds like really sleeper, duper intense.
(02:38):
So basically all that means is thatI went to school for like two
and a half three years too,of intensive study of the Bible in particular,
which you can go give it aMaster of Divinity in any in any
religion. Um, but my faithis Christianity, and so that is sort
of my world. I've pastored,I've been leader in churches, I lead,
(03:00):
I lead a religious nonprofit organization,and so all of that my faith
intersects with my work, and sokind of how I ended up in this
work is really I've been speaking aboutrace for a very long time, but
really in earnest since about twenty fourteen, whenever my oldest daughter, which is
(03:22):
a few months old, the tragedyhappened in Ferguson, And of course I
lived in Virginia at the time,but I'm a native Missourian and so m
Missouri is home saying I'm from theKansas City area that Saint Louis is home
for me and so those that thatwhole thing was deeply personal for me,
right, and so I just reallyfelt the need to speak up about what
(03:46):
I was seeing it happening in Fergusonand even particularly some of the responses that
I was seeing, and in particularsome of my fell o the Christians,
some of the horrible responses that Iwas seeing, And so that one thing
sort of led to another, andit kind of has become a gig.
It's not something that I really intendedto become a gig, but it just
(04:12):
sort of happened. I watched theFacebook page that you that you were referencing.
I watched that. I guess it'sthree years ago now, three years
ago, in March March of twentyeighteen. I watched that. And that
was really just because I really gotsick of white people like coming into my
personal page and showing their tail andso I was just like, like,
(04:35):
I'll just start this page. LikeI don't want to have to moderate my
own comment section, So I'm justgoing to start this page and like,
you know, maybe like fifty ofmy closest friends will like read what I
say, will care, and maybewe'll share it with their friends. It
just as snowball. It's not reallyanything that I've pursued or or have tried
(04:57):
to build, like I'm going tomarket myself and put myself out just have.
It's just something that's built. Andso I just have decided to steward
the platform that I have and touse the voice that I have, and
that's what I'm here. You know, I think we actually I probably got
started months after you, and Ithink people are just looking for truth and
that's what you represent, you know, on your platform, and so thank
(05:19):
you for that. You know,as we reconcile the things we've learned in
religious institutions, religious dogma, individualbeliefs of church leadership with our conscious telling
us there's a problem with different perspectives, so like homosexuality, and like hierarchies,
hierarchies of power, Like how dowe navigate this? Because this is
(05:44):
my personal journey right now as Iam on this decolonizing journey, I'm like,
as a Christian, how do Inavigate all the different messages that we're
told that we need to follow tobe good Christians? Yeah? You know,
I will speak kind of too someof my own personal journey because I
think that we really get in troublewhenever we take our personal journey and try
(06:09):
to be like I've only lived mylife right, like I've only lived in
my context. And so I thinkthat we get in trouble whenever we try
to prescribe for other people who havea set of experience, have a different
have a different context, whatever whatthey should or should not do. So
I'll just speak for my own perspective, and I think that one of the
(06:29):
things that helped me was being ableto have the privilege to study for my
undergrad at a public university that wasa little a liberal arts school and also
had a public affairs mission, andI was also a religious studies minor.
Actually had enough credits that I couldhave declared the major, but I didn't
want the pressure of having a doublemajor. And I think that there's maybe
(06:51):
like one little other like portfolio orproject that they wanted religious studies majors to
like do, and I was like, I'm not doing any more work than
when I have to do so asa psychology major religious studies minor, so
I had the privilege of being ableto study religion. So those experiences,
I think kind of helped me tobe able to navigate some of these things.
(07:11):
And so really, just like inplain English, my college thought that
it was important for people to learna variety of subjects. I had to
take courses across a variety of subjectsin a variety of schools within the college.
So it wasn't just all psychology classes. I had to take classes in
biology. I had to take chemistryclasses, I had to take classes in
(07:33):
the humanities, I had to takebusiness class. I'd take a couple of
classes in a college business. Sothere was this kind of just well rounded
aspect of it. And with theirpublic Affairs mission, one of the things
that they really emphasized was that thereis a big, broad world where people
have a lot of different worldviews,and so how do we be good citizens
(07:58):
within all the different world views andhow do we interact with one another understanding
that people come from different world views. And so that was something that I
just had in my formative years.And of course that's that's a privilege,
you know, that I being ableto be educated, to be able to
go to have a scholarship, togo to that type of stuff. Um,
(08:18):
you I definitely want to want toput that out there, but I
mentioned that because I think that thatwas something that was I'm critical for me
in my formative years. And I'mnot saying that everybody. You know that
you have to go to college andyou have to go to public affairs university
or whatever to have this, butI think that what that did was even
being in religious spaces that would haveleaned maybe more fundamentalist or whatever, it
(08:41):
sort of inoculated me in some ways, like from that level and brand of
fundamentalism where it's like, you know, kind of you know, my way
or the highway to Hell or whatever. It is, like it's like I
was able to realize, you know, these are my beliefs that I'm holding,
but there are other people that thinkother things and that are and that
(09:03):
are living their lives and are faithfulto what's true to them, and so
like, you know, I like, I don't. I don't have the
monopoly on that, on that sortof things, and so you know,
I learned that they're so. Thenbeing a religious studies miner, taking taking
a lot of I took a lotof courses where they weren't theology forces,
(09:26):
mind you, because this is apublic university, it wasn't they weren't trying
to get you saved or whatever.It was just talking about the Bible,
it was talking about religion, itwas talking about different religious figures, different
religions, whatever. And so Ithink that having that experience, I learned
the difference between what is contained ina religious text versus how it's understood by
(09:54):
the people who are in power withinthat religious context, versus what the practitioners
of the religion might believe, versusjust kind of like what is kind of
the folk version of the religion.And so oftentimes, like institutional with Christianity,
there is kind of what you know, whatever people's denomination or whatever people's
(10:16):
church or institution might teach. Butthen within that, and it's always been
true that there are that there arekind of almost folk beliefs within that,
and there's and there are practices thatpeople maybe retain as they can as they
convert from another religion or whatever,and they maybe retain certain practices but just
(10:37):
christianize them. And that's actually somethingthat's happened like throughout throughout Christianity. And
so oftentimes what happens is that likemy individual personal faith and belief might not
precept upon precept line upon line,agree with whatever it is that my denomination
or my church or another religious leaderor whatever believes, and that's okay.
(11:01):
And I think where a lot ofpeople get in trouble is that um.
And this is I think part oflike colonized thinking even in Christianity, is
that in any religion. But butI'm gonna speak to what I know specifically,
it's Christianity. I think that whatcontributes to this colonized thinking is that
it's like, we have all theanswers, you know, we know everything.
(11:24):
Um, we have the answer toall, We are the answer to
all. And it doesn't appreciate nuance. It doesn't appreciate um. It doesn't
appreciate nuance. Colonized think, colonizedreligious thinking, it doesn't. It doesn't
appreciate that there might be different interpretations, there might be different understandings of religious
(11:46):
texts. And so oftentimes people's religiongets really really super super colonized, or
it gets really super in love withwielding power over people. And I think
that that abuse power is like theroot of colonization, right, And so
oftentimes whenever religion excludes people, itexcludes people that it wants power over,
(12:11):
or that it thinks that, well, you know, these this group of
people, women, gay people,people, Africans, people that are of
other of other things, that thosepeople are inferior in some way, or
there's something wrong with them, andso we're going to exercise power over them.
And so all that to say that, then the journey that I made
and that I'm still making in somewhereor another is holding true, holding very
(12:35):
tightly to what I believe to betrue about my deity and about my religions
sacred text and at the same timebeing okay with mystery and being okay with
embracing I don't have all the answer, and my religious texts actually doesn't claim
(12:56):
to have all the answers, andI can be okay with that that those
are claims, but other people haveplaced on that play on the text,
But the text itself actually doesn't doesn'treally make those claims in the way or
they There might be certain claims maybethat it kind of sort of makes,
but those are understood, Those areunderstood the kind of a culturally quoted way
(13:16):
or whatever. But realizing that Ican, I can hold tight to things
that are that are benefiting me,that are that are building me up while
not having to take on things thatthe more harmful or difficult aspects of those
things. And so I think thatone of the dangers of religious fundamentalism,
(13:37):
and I say religious fundamentalism and notjust Christian fundamentalism, because fundamentalism can happen
in any content. One of thedangers um that I that I think in
that is that it asks you umto check your brain at the door,
right, so to kind of belike, well, okay, you just
you just have to check your brainat the door, and you have to
(14:00):
leave this certain this certain way,even if it goes against what your intuition
is saying, even if it defiescommon sense. This is what the dogma
says. This is what the peoplein power tell you that you have to
believe. And how yes, justkind of blind obedience to somebody's interpretation of
what your religion says that should be. And that's a problem, right.
(14:20):
So, like, I think thatoftentimes the issue is is that people's dogma
will miss like some of the broaderconcepts of what religious text or a faith
tradition or whatever it's teaching. Soagain, Christianity, that's what I know.
Slash Walls also about to speak toyou can if you are from a
different faith tradition, you can certainlyapply this where it needs to where and
(14:45):
how it needs to be applied.But Jesus Christ actually taught about this in
the Bible, where he talks abouthow there were religious people who approach their
faith in a certain way and theymiss some of like the weightier matters of
the law, like he said hekind of actually made in the text.
Is actually like a joke there,but he talks about like how sometimes religious
(15:05):
people will straight an app or they'llweigh a bunch of stuff out, but
they'll miss the waightier matters of thelaw, like they'll they'll miss the waightier
matters of what God is actually tryingto say. And so to then take
that back to some of the issuesthat you brought up is I think that
(15:26):
in my own journey, what Ihave realized is that people often say,
will often put cherry pick scriptures outof the Bible, and will cherry pick
those scriptures to oppress people, andwhat to spare the rise one of the
child, which even in the Bibley'all patches, is not in the Bible,
(15:46):
but not in the way it's notit's not in there in the way
that will think that it that itwould be in there. Um, But
there's like this whole thing where peoplewill will kind of cherry pick and we'll
use those things to oppress people andso but then'll be it'll miss It'll be
like, Okay, well you knowthere's there's a scripture over here. Sometimes
(16:07):
people refer to them as like Clauberverses, where it's like, oh,
there's a scripture over here that saysthat women should get to talk to talk
in church, so women can't bepreachers. And well there's a scripture over
here that that alludes to some typeof practice, some type of that sexual
practice or whatever. So that mustmean that that gay people are sent and
they cherry pick those things and thensay, but then they miss the scriptures
(16:32):
overall message right, love right.And so for me, what I have
chosen to do in my own journeyis to take what I think is a
core central tenet of the scripture.Now, there might be other people that
they're like, oh no, no, she interpreted that scripture wrong and it
ain't what it is. But whatI have chosen to do is I've chosen
(16:52):
to look at my religious texts andstudy and study my religious texts, and
I spent years paid white people wholebunch of myne um to to be able
to look at this text and knowhow to read and interpret the text for
myself. And what I have cometo the conclusion of is that one of
the central themes of the Bible islove and is justice. And so I
(17:15):
have chosen to emphasize that in myway. I've chosen. I've chosen to
hold that. And so all thisother stuff and all this other debating about
who gets to marry whom, andwho gets to preach gets to and who
gets to have sex with whom,I really don't care about that. I
care so I care about loving people, and so loving people leads me to
(17:38):
love my queer, my transgender,my my people, my Muslim, my
Jewish neighbors. Yeah, you know, it's just it's revolutionary, right,
But that's but that's really U that'sreally just the journey that I've been on.
And that might sound some of thatmight sound contradictory to embracing the misty,
(18:00):
but I don't think that is incontradictory, and that is in contradiction
at all. I can say youknow what, I do not have all
of the answers. Know why thisthis scripture is here this way, I
don't. I don't know. Ihave some ideas I can maybe interpret as
to why, but I don't know. If the thing didn't doesn't tell me
(18:22):
why the thing says the thing,I can only guess all the thing says
the thing. So so it's amystery. I have no idea, but
I can lean into that. Ibelieve that God's overall characteristics are for love
and justice and not hatred and notand not bigotry and not whatever. So
again taking holding onto what is goodin my faith and what's good in my
(18:48):
faith tradition, and then talking allthat other junk in the trash like like
we don't we don't need that.Well, you know, I you know,
I run into people. I'm sureyou do all the time. When
it goes back to that, whenwe're talking about children and how they are
the most oppressed group of people whoyou know, it's legal to hit them,
it's legal to do all to dehumanizethem, and they use the Bible
(19:12):
as the tool to be able todo that. And that's what you know,
because like you said, the Biblepreachers love and not to go ahead,
you know, to smack your kidupside the head with this rod.
Yet that is what people choose tohang onto. And it's people who don't
even go to church, like y'alldon't even go y'all don't read the Bible.
But that's the one passage that thatyou're just stuck on, you know,
(19:34):
as you wear polyes that you're notsupposed to be wearing. Right,
So like picking and choosing and inorder to have power over these small people,
and so I kind of want toask you, let me see.
As you mentioned, the point isthat people can use this power over someone
(19:55):
and usually it's about submission, right, They're trying to figure out how to
get someone to submit to something.So, if we're from what people interpret
a wife, a wife is notequal to a husband. A child is
not equal to their parents. Sowhat do we need to understand about dynamics
and relationships and how they impact ourparenting from a religious perspective, especially as
(20:18):
we colonize our spirituality. Yeah,that is a really good question. So
I don't think that it's possible toraise literated children if everyone in your home
isn't free like the period. Now, that's that's an easy answer, but
then there gets to be kind oflike the harder question of Okay, well,
(20:38):
how do you how do we honorour faith traditions? How do we
how do we understand our faith traditions? And how do we hold on to
things that might be important to usor whatever? And so I would say
that first of all, people needto examine what their beliefs are, so
like this idea like like you needto examine what your religious belief system afually
(20:59):
actually said. So I can tellyou that as far as Christianity goes a
lot of the things. So there, So there's a first that people always
talk about about, like how youknow, children are supposed to obey your
parents, but in Ephesians, Imean guests, obeying your parents is also
one of the ten was also oneof the ten commandments. But then that's
expounded on in the Book of Ephesianswhere it's children obey your parents as unto
(21:19):
the Lord. But then it turnsit round it says, parents do not
provoke your children to wrath. Comeon, So you hit touched on this
earlier that a lot of the mindsetbehind this is power is that we have
been taught and it's just been passedalong on down because homes. I'm talking
(21:41):
specifically with Christianity that a lot oftimes people talk about, you know how
how home is the first church,and that's true, But at the same
time, what people often mean bythat is, well, we're going to
take our colonizing principles and you needto make sure that you are enacting those
in your home first, so itmakes it easier for them to submit to
(22:03):
the church. That's where that comesfrom. Now, I think that we
can reappropriate that and say, youknow, our kids, like like are
if you are a person of faith, your faith tradition, what is important
to you. That's something that you'regoing to impart and you're going to and
you are going to pass on toyour children. And I think that there's
that you know, your children alsoshould be able to exercise agency right and
(22:26):
decide there's going to be a pointwhere they might decide, you know what,
actually the set of beliefs doesn't fitme, maybe something else. There
might be a point when they say, oh, hey, I love this
and this is part of who Iam. This is part of who I
am too, and so I don'tthink that we should shy away at all
from if you are a spiritual personraising your children in your own spirituality,
I don't think that we that weshould shy away from that at all.
(22:48):
Right, But oftentimes what people do, but this colonized mindset that people that
people have the people people colonization andthey make it about parents wielding power over
children. So then you know,you grow up and you become the parents,
and so then you decide your powerover your children, and it just
becomes cycles of abuse and power.So something that I want to challenge us
(23:12):
to do is your faith should notbe a cudgel. Right, Like,
your faith should not be something thatyou use to physically beat your children,
literally be your children, psychologically beatyour children. You should not, But
like that's not the business. Faithis something that should be I believe it
should be something that enhances your life. It should be something that builds your
(23:34):
life. It should be something thatmakes you a person of peace, that
makes you a person of justice,that makes you a person that's seeking wholeness
and wellness. That's what faith isfor. And so you can't you can't
be you can't you can't expect todecolonize your faith. You can't expect to
to colonize your parenting. If youare a spiritual person, you can't expect
(23:56):
to do that and then approach yourchildren and approach your spouse with the mindset
of trying to wield power over them, because, like I said, the
root of colonization is abuse of power. And so if we are going to
then approach our children abusing power,now that doesn't mean like like the way
(24:18):
that I see it, because Ihave a four year old and four year
olds each of my kids, Ihave two kids. I have a seven
year old and a four year old. Right now, three was a difficult
age for my seven year old.Four has proven to be a difficult age
for a four year old just interms of like, hey, they're like
there are rules that you that youneed to follow. There are things there
to keep you safe, like youhave to pee in the toilet, you
(24:41):
can't tell anywhere in the house.Like, so what we try to do
is because my four year old isalso she didn't my seven year old started
saying why. She started out withhow, but she would ask how that
she meant why she was doing thattoo? Everything was how, how does
she learn that the word was why, so she started doing why. So
she did that probably up until shewas like four or five, and then
(25:06):
she stopped. My four year olddidn't start doing it until like she was
like three and a half four,and she has made up for lost time
and everything odd earth is why,like her whys have whys, and what
we try to do with her isit's not just like, oh, well
because I said so, But sometimesit's like, you know, I told
(25:26):
you to do this, so likelike I told you to I told you
to not be on the floor,so don't be on the floor please.
There's sometimes there's some moments where it'slike, okay, I can't go into
this expansive explanation. I just askedyou to do it, please, please
do it. And then and thenI always try to make a point where
I do that. I always likea point to explain later, to say
(25:47):
this is why I asked you todo this. Later, but in a
moment I'm not able to explain.But something that we try to do with
our kids. Something we try todo with our kids is not to just
be like, well I did thisbecause I want you to do this because
we say so, but to butto really kind of emphasize that it we
love you, and so we wethink we like, we don't want you
(26:08):
to put your finger in the whitesocket because we love you and that could
hurt, Like, we don't wantyou. We don't want you to to
run through the house because you couldrun into the granite countertop and that that
that juts out in the kitchen andit could hurt you. And so we
(26:29):
don't want you to brown that corner. And so we try to really enact
that in a way that is lovingand not and it begins you could any
any thought process. You can turnit into something that's weird and abusive,
and you can get weird and abusiveand toxic and stuff like that. But
we try to examine. We tryto examine that and try to give our
children power. Um, so there'ssome things that like you can't give your
(26:53):
three year old power to like dowhatever because they're just gonna like eat,
they're gonna they're gonna drink all theorange juice and they're gonna have a tummy
ache, and they're gonna eat everysingle package of goldfish and they're gonna get
a tummy ache and they're gonna pullthe dog the tail and they're gonna say
something, give your kids power todo right, But we tried it.
(27:15):
But we've empower them and help themto make their own choices and to see,
well, there's some things that yeah, that's gonna have a natural consequence
and stuff to it, like maybeokay, guess you're not gonna do that
again, or maybe you should dothat again, or maybe you know,
you hurt somebody's feelings. That's notcool. But yeah, but we try
to try to power, try toparent in a way that isn't about wielding
(27:38):
power and lolding over our kids.And you know, I'm the one that
said that, that said this,and whatever. We apologize to our kids.
We tell our kids whenever we getstuff wrong, like oh I was
oh I was wrong about that,Oh you know what, I misspoke there,
or you know what, you knowwhat because I'm not perfect. Yeah
(27:59):
you know what. I was reallyfrustrated at this point and I raised my
voice and that wasn't a kind thingfor me to do, and I'm sorry.
I feel like when when we dothat with our children, we're humanizing
our small children look at us almostas if we are God's We do control
their very life, you know,and they depend on us. And that's
why when we will that power egregiously, it's so offensive to me, you
(28:22):
know, with with small children,because they have no choice but to depend
on us, you know, andwe have the responsibility to learn how to
wield our power in a way thatempowers them and the way that does not
to humanize them, but also humanhumanizes us. Because for some people,
(28:42):
the parenting power is it feels sothey're like, that's the only way I
got in the world. So that'syou know, that's what I'm a I'm
a I'm a really going in onthis one. Yeah. And you know
something that I'll say specifically speaking tothe African American context, of Black American
context, because I think that oftentimesBlack American parents, because historically the only
(29:06):
place that we've been able to wieldpower or is among the in the church
and among those in our homes,that there are a lot of toxic power
dynamics, toxic paradigms that I haveseen among black parents, particularly black fathers.
And that's not to pick on blackmen at all whatsoever, but there's
(29:27):
like these weird kind of expectations thatthey have for how their children should interact
with them or how whatever that thisis the last thing I'll say that this
is a perennial conversation that comes upon the internet. Is like it's something
that people just like recycle and likeit comes up once every eighteen most you
probably know what I'm about to say. But the whole thing about well who
(29:49):
gets the plate first, Oh mygod, it it just recycles, and
it's like we have we negroes havedebated about this. We have been debating
this on the internet for forever,like Jesus fight another thing. Because I
don't even engage in these in thosetypes of discussions because I think of the
thing that they're ignorant. But Iwill say this, because this is a
(30:11):
parenting thing. I feel like thatthat discussion is inherently flawed because it's not
about it's not about who comes first, it's not about sliding somebody, it's
not about whose power, it's notabout whatever. And I think that a
lot of the premises of then thatconversation often relies on faulty, faulty premises,
and to me, like in myhouse, there are days that like
(30:33):
I'm the one the first one getsmy plate and there are days that my
partner is the first one to gethis plate. There are days that the
kids are the first ones to gettheir plate. And it's not it's just
and it's not like, oh,like I'm symbolically the first person to get
my plate, so I'm the mostimportant. It's it was time to eat.
(30:55):
I called these people to eat.They downstairs watching pepper pig. They
are doing whatever. How was I'mhungry? Well, apparently it has some
cultural context. You know, whenwhen these men would after reconstruction times,
um, that was the only timewhere they could feel like they were the
(31:15):
king of something, right, sothey would come home. Even though women
worked a lot in reconstruction, wewere sometimes the only ones who are working
were black women. But when walkingto the house, it was like,
let me, let me make thisman feel like he has some kind of
power, like he's a king,because out in the world he is dehumanized
and abused and all this other stuff. But you know what, so our
(31:40):
children and so our women to agreater degree, and so I think what
happens is that we have these Ican't stand that conversation either could for me.
It goes into patriarchy right into thatsystem, and we all know that
that's an abusive system, and solike I'm kind of on this thing now
where it's kind of like name thatsystem. When we started, when we
(32:01):
started talking about these things, yougot to look at how what system is
this investing in? What is keepingfor? And why? And who benefits?
Who benefits from this discussion, becauseit really, at the end of
the day, how does it makeor break you? If you don't get
your plate first? Still are aman? So what is what is you
(32:23):
getting a plate have to do withmanhood? These weird associations are harmful,
especially when it comes to women andchildren, because when you don't conform to
them, then sometimes there's violence,you know. Yeah, And I think
that the plate example is a greatexample of how our culture often will take
(32:45):
symbols of things and imbue those symbolswith an undue amount of power and then
hold other people hostage to those tothose symbols. And so then so that
conversation it gets it works my nerves. But I think that it is very
(33:06):
revelatory in terms of who answers andhow they answer. It's very revelatory about
people's politics and about people's whatever,and so it just I hate the conversation.
Are you a burnt out parent oreducator? And get down by a
thread as this pandemic turning to youinto the pairent you always told yourself you
(33:27):
wouldn't want to be. Are yourkids showing signs of stress, anxiety and
acting out more than ever? Well, friend, same, I am in
the same boat as you, andthis bee has taken on water. We
need help. That's why I decidedthis year's Parenting and Colonized conference will be
a remix of my first one,the runa Racism I Radical Parenting Conference.
The remix, happening on September twentythird to twenty five, is a multi
(33:50):
day, fully virtual conference focused onpowering parents with the tools to recalibrate from
past to pop in order to formdeeper connections with their kids. I climbed
up twenty plus educators, parent coaches, mental health professionals, and social justice
leaders to help you get your mindright in parent with intention and for liberation.
My past conferences has helped over threethousand people become the conscious parents they've
(34:14):
always wanted to be. You'll notonly have for grace and patience for your
kids, but for yourself too.Click the link in the show notes for
early bird registration and save forty dollarsoff your ticket today. I'm waiting for
them to put some questions up foryou from the audience. In the meantime,
I just want to ask you whenwe think about you know, the
whole point of this is collective reimagining, right, and your particular topic is
(34:38):
decolonizing you know, spirituality. Whatis that? What does that mean?
Yeah, So whenever I think ofdecolonizing spirituality, I think of people being
of people being able to practice theirfaith in a way that abuse them with
(34:58):
meaning, that gives them a senseof a sense of pride, if that's
if that's the word, but Ican use it. That gives them,
gives them a sense of peace,gives them a sense of pride where they
feel like, regardless of whatever theiridentity is, that they feel love,
that they feel acceptance. And sowhenever we start to talk about decolonization,
(35:21):
then it's also decolonizing religion to thepoint that it's not used to cause harm
to others. Someone is asking,how can one decolonize Christianity when so much
of it is based on evangelization.Yeah, which is spiritual colonism a case
spreading the word. Yeah, soI think that, um, there's a
(35:43):
lot of different ways like it thatI could answer this question. Um.
So I think that I would challengethe assumption that Christianity is predicated on evangelization
and spreading the word. Yes,I know that there's like your vigorate commission
or whatever that exists, that existsin the religious texts, But I want
to challenge the notion that Christ wasjust like, oh, you've got to
(36:07):
go out and spread the word inthe way that people have spread the word
since Constantine. Because spreading the wordwhenever we look at the Book of Acts.
So you see in Matthew, Markand Luke this idea of go out
and tell people about about Christ,tell people, tell people about me,
tell people about about what happened herethat wasn't go and tell people and make
(36:31):
a state religion and kill the peoplewho don't believe and do all this other
type of stuff. And so thatwe have to decouple spreading the good news.
We have to do couple that fromcolonialism. And so that's something that
I think that's very that's very hardto do because a lot of us that's
all that's all we know. Soto me, spreading the good news of
(36:52):
Jesus Christ is I'm doing it rightnow, right. It's talking about my
face in a way and what itmeans to me. Now, I'm not
putting in any demands on you.I'm not saying I'm not going to do
an ant call and say, well, if you want to come, and
if you want to get saved,if you want if you want to fire
insurance or whatever, I'm not doingthat. I am just sharing what my
(37:15):
faith is to me and what itmeans to me and in my life and
in my walk. And if peopledecide that hey, I want what she
has or I want to know moreabout Christianity or whatever, cool, I'm
willing to sit down and talk withyou about it. And if you decide
that you don't want to take it, pick it up, Okay, cool?
We cool, like we were good. And so I think that we
(37:36):
have to couple it from this thisidea of what we see in a lot
of evangelicalism, which is like knockingon people's words. They don't quite do
that that much anymore, but butbut going and trying to make people into
converse rather than and and emphasize onthe making rather than existing and living out
(37:57):
your faith and people, and yourfaith is such that people want to want
to join your ranks, and theychoose to join. Yes, how do
you balance keeping gaining trust from yourchild to care for them while modeling mistakes
and apologizing. That's a very goodquestion. Um so yeah, I guess
that the easy answer is that Ilove my children, and I listen and
(38:20):
I listen to them, I listento their needs. I try to listen
to their desires or well wish it, their wishes whatever. And then also
if I make a mistake, Iadmit it, and so like, I
don't see those things necessarily as asopposed, like I think you can.
You can do both. And thenhow do you reconcile the problematic past and
deeply entrenched spetrocity is done in thename of religion and still held on to
(38:42):
religion and social justice practices and decolonizing. Oh, that's a very good question.
So I think that there is adifference between what a sacred text says
and how people interpret that sacred text, and then the actions that people do
and people's personal axis. And sothat doesn't mean that, oh, well,
all people that went and kill allthe Christians that went and kill people
(39:05):
who are non Christians, Like,well, I can just kind of be
like not it and just kind ofyou know, we've got to reckon that.
We've we've got to excuse me,We've got to talk about that.
We've got it, We've got toabout that. But I think that that
doesn't prevent me from that doesn't preventme. It maybe prevents other people,
but it doesn't prevent me from alsoseeing the beauty of my faith and of
(39:27):
and of my tradition, will alsorealizing that people need to be accountable for
that. And the last thing I'llsay on MAP is that Rachel held Evans
actually wrestles with some of these inher book Searching for Sunday. And then
also she has a book called FaithUnraveled. It used to be called like
something about Monkeytown or whatever, butI think that the publisher changed her new
publisher changed the title to Faith Unraveled, and she wrestles with some of these
(39:50):
things in a beautiful way the audiobookbecause you get to hear it. She
passed two years ago, but youget to hear her voice and on the
audiobooks. Let me check that outmyself because is something I wrestle with a
lot as I do this decolonizing work. So thank you for that. And
the last question we'll ask you iswhat does a reimagine world look like to
you? A world in which everyoneis free, everyone is cared for,
(40:15):
everyone has loved, everyone doesn't wantfor anything they have, they have their
needs met. Yeah, that's whatI think. Doesn't mean the world that's
that's necessarily you know, free ofhurt and harm and whatever, but a
world that is more, that's waymore, just way more equitable than what
we have right now. I reallyappreciate you. This has been super enlightening.
(40:37):
Where can people find you? Sowe can We're gonna make sure to
put all put everybody's information in thechat um so you know, you can
add to your already hundreds of thousandsof followers on Facebook. So you can
find me on Facebook page. It'sjust my name Ali Henny. Um,
there's a writer's there's a writer's page. It's like a public Facebook page.
(40:59):
Like, don't try to friend meon my personal profile. I'm gonna don't
like what like, um um,but if you if you if you file,
if you do my public profile justfollow, follow or like. I
forget Facebook in the like follow whateverit is, do that. I am
also on Instagram as Ali Henny.I'm also on TikTok at the Real Alley
(41:22):
Henny. I don't do TikTok's veryoften, but sometimes I do. I
did one recently, and you canalso find me on Twitter as at the
Armchair Calm. The Armchair Calm isshort for the Armchair Commentary because back whenever
I had my Twitter account, youwere limited that that arm chair Calm was
like the limit of your handle.Now you can have like super long handles.
But I've never changed it. Butthe Armchair Commentary is my personal blog
(41:45):
that I don't post to enough,but it's there and you can subscribe to
it. So whenever there's like afull moon and Mercury's and retrograde and Saturns
in retrograde, and your honest islike you know, in Jupiter or whatever
in Mars or Aquarius, say umyou can, and your honest is in
Jupreter's line with morals and Aquarius andwhatever I post and conditions I post right,
(42:10):
and so you'll get the you'll getthe alerts. And then I'm also
on Patreon um again, just goto Patreon. My name, my podcast,
Coming the Roots, my website aleihaneydot com. Somewhere you're gonna find,
You're gonna find something that is otherthings of me. Well, thank
you so much for being here withme today. I will make sure to
(42:30):
link all that into the show notesso we can follow you. And again,
thank you and thank you all forlistening. Please make sure leave,
be ready and review, and untilnext time, keep the conscious
This podcast is brought to you bythe RONA Racism and Radical Parenting Virtual Conference
happening on September twenty third to twentyfifth. It is designed to help equip
you with the knowledge and practical adviceyou need to manage your triggers, yell
less, connect more, and raiseliberated, emotionally well children. Click the
link in the show notes for earlybird registration and save forty dollars off your
(00:23):
ticket. Today. Hey, fam, today's episode is recording from my Conscious
Parenting for Social Justice conference that happenedback in June of twenty twenty one.
I'm going to be speaking with speakerand writer Ali Henny to discuss how to
decolonize our spirituality and raise liberated freethinkers. I just want to give y'all
(00:45):
the taste of what to expect fromthe RONA Racism and Radical Parenting Conference happening
in September, so don't forget toclick the link in the show notes and
save forty dollars off your early birdticket. With that said, let's dive
right into this amazing conversation with Alie. I have been sharing all of your
amazing content so much on my page. People probably are like what's going on?
(01:08):
Is she over here promoting for Ali? I'm just like no, she
says the truth all the time,and I always been an't up. But
everybody I see something just like,yes, I have to share it.
I don't care if that if Ijust shared a moment ago, I'm sharing
again. Can you tell us alittle bit about your personal history and how
(01:29):
you came into this work. Yeah, So that's actually like a really long,
complicated story. But the Cliff's noteversion of it is, I grew
up in Room, Missouri, ina predominantly white town. So I grew
up, you know, experiencing seeing, having the family history of just a
lot of racism, and so asI went off to went off to college
(01:53):
and moved and do different things asan adult, those experiences were something that
I always carried with me. Ontop of my family. My mother in
particular, was very intentional about educatingme about who I was as a person,
and was very very intentional about centeringblackness in our home and in our
(02:15):
experience. And so I grew upwith a tremendous amount of self love in
terms of my blackness. But thenbeing in a world surrounded by whiteness,
where that was where that was inconflict, and so I am. I
am a Christian minister. I havea degree in a Master of Divinity.
It's kind of like it's all likethat sounds like really sleeper, duper intense.
(02:38):
So basically all that means is thatI went to school for like two
and a half three years too,of intensive study of the Bible in particular,
which you can go give it aMaster of Divinity in any in any
religion. Um, but my faithis Christianity, and so that is sort
of my world. I've pastored,I've been leader in churches, I lead,
(03:00):
I lead a religious nonprofit organization,and so all of that my faith
intersects with my work, and sokind of how I ended up in this
work is really I've been speaking aboutrace for a very long time, but
really in earnest since about twenty fourteen, whenever my oldest daughter, which is
(03:22):
a few months old, the tragedyhappened in Ferguson, And of course I
lived in Virginia at the time,but I'm a native Missourian and so m
Missouri is home saying I'm from theKansas City area that Saint Louis is home
for me and so those that thatwhole thing was deeply personal for me,
right, and so I just reallyfelt the need to speak up about what
(03:46):
I was seeing it happening in Fergusonand even particularly some of the responses that
I was seeing, and in particularsome of my fell o the Christians,
some of the horrible responses that Iwas seeing, And so that one thing
sort of led to another, andit kind of has become a gig.
It's not something that I really intendedto become a gig, but it just
(04:12):
sort of happened. I watched theFacebook page that you that you were referencing.
I watched that. I guess it'sthree years ago now, three years
ago, in March March of twentyeighteen. I watched that. And that
was really just because I really gotsick of white people like coming into my
personal page and showing their tail andso I was just like, like,
(04:35):
I'll just start this page. LikeI don't want to have to moderate my
own comment section, So I'm justgoing to start this page and like,
you know, maybe like fifty ofmy closest friends will like read what I
say, will care, and maybewe'll share it with their friends. It
just as snowball. It's not reallyanything that I've pursued or or have tried
(04:57):
to build, like I'm going tomarket myself and put myself out just have.
It's just something that's built. Andso I just have decided to steward
the platform that I have and touse the voice that I have, and
that's what I'm here. You know, I think we actually I probably got
started months after you, and Ithink people are just looking for truth and
that's what you represent, you know, on your platform, and so thank
(05:19):
you for that. You know,as we reconcile the things we've learned in
religious institutions, religious dogma, individualbeliefs of church leadership with our conscious telling
us there's a problem with different perspectives, so like homosexuality, and like hierarchies,
hierarchies of power, Like how dowe navigate this? Because this is
(05:44):
my personal journey right now as Iam on this decolonizing journey, I'm like,
as a Christian, how do Inavigate all the different messages that we're
told that we need to follow tobe good Christians? Yeah? You know,
I will speak kind of too someof my own personal journey because I
think that we really get in troublewhenever we take our personal journey and try
(06:09):
to be like I've only lived mylife right, like I've only lived in
my context. And so I thinkthat we get in trouble whenever we try
to prescribe for other people who havea set of experience, have a different
have a different context, whatever whatthey should or should not do. So
I'll just speak for my own perspective, and I think that one of the
(06:29):
things that helped me was being ableto have the privilege to study for my
undergrad at a public university that wasa little a liberal arts school and also
had a public affairs mission, andI was also a religious studies minor.
Actually had enough credits that I couldhave declared the major, but I didn't
want the pressure of having a doublemajor. And I think that there's maybe
(06:51):
like one little other like portfolio orproject that they wanted religious studies majors to
like do, and I was like, I'm not doing any more work than
when I have to do so asa psychology major religious studies minor, so
I had the privilege of being ableto study religion. So those experiences,
I think kind of helped me tobe able to navigate some of these things.
(07:11):
And so really, just like inplain English, my college thought that
it was important for people to learna variety of subjects. I had to
take courses across a variety of subjectsin a variety of schools within the college.
So it wasn't just all psychology classes. I had to take classes in
biology. I had to take chemistryclasses, I had to take classes in
(07:33):
the humanities, I had to takebusiness class. I'd take a couple of
classes in a college business. Sothere was this kind of just well rounded
aspect of it. And with theirpublic Affairs mission, one of the things
that they really emphasized was that thereis a big, broad world where people
have a lot of different worldviews,and so how do we be good citizens
(07:58):
within all the different world views andhow do we interact with one another understanding
that people come from different world views. And so that was something that I
just had in my formative years.And of course that's that's a privilege,
you know, that I being ableto be educated, to be able to
go to have a scholarship, togo to that type of stuff. Um,
(08:18):
you I definitely want to want toput that out there, but I
mentioned that because I think that thatwas something that was I'm critical for me
in my formative years. And I'mnot saying that everybody. You know that
you have to go to college andyou have to go to public affairs university
or whatever to have this, butI think that what that did was even
being in religious spaces that would haveleaned maybe more fundamentalist or whatever, it
(08:41):
sort of inoculated me in some ways, like from that level and brand of
fundamentalism where it's like, you know, kind of you know, my way
or the highway to Hell or whatever. It is, like it's like I
was able to realize, you know, these are my beliefs that I'm holding,
but there are other people that thinkother things and that are and that
(09:03):
are living their lives and are faithfulto what's true to them, and so
like, you know, I like, I don't. I don't have the
monopoly on that, on that sortof things, and so you know,
I learned that they're so. Thenbeing a religious studies miner, taking taking
a lot of I took a lotof courses where they weren't theology forces,
(09:26):
mind you, because this is apublic university, it wasn't they weren't trying
to get you saved or whatever.It was just talking about the Bible,
it was talking about religion, itwas talking about different religious figures, different
religions, whatever. And so Ithink that having that experience, I learned
the difference between what is contained ina religious text versus how it's understood by
(09:54):
the people who are in power withinthat religious context, versus what the practitioners
of the religion might believe, versusjust kind of like what is kind of
the folk version of the religion.And so oftentimes, like institutional with Christianity,
there is kind of what you know, whatever people's denomination or whatever people's
(10:16):
church or institution might teach. Butthen within that, and it's always been
true that there are that there arekind of almost folk beliefs within that,
and there's and there are practices thatpeople maybe retain as they can as they
convert from another religion or whatever,and they maybe retain certain practices but just
(10:37):
christianize them. And that's actually somethingthat's happened like throughout throughout Christianity. And
so oftentimes what happens is that likemy individual personal faith and belief might not
precept upon precept line upon line,agree with whatever it is that my denomination
or my church or another religious leaderor whatever believes, and that's okay.
(11:01):
And I think where a lot ofpeople get in trouble is that um.
And this is I think part oflike colonized thinking even in Christianity, is
that in any religion. But butI'm gonna speak to what I know specifically,
it's Christianity. I think that whatcontributes to this colonized thinking is that
it's like, we have all theanswers, you know, we know everything.
(11:24):
Um, we have the answer toall, We are the answer to
all. And it doesn't appreciate nuance. It doesn't appreciate um. It doesn't
appreciate nuance. Colonized think, colonizedreligious thinking, it doesn't. It doesn't
appreciate that there might be different interpretations, there might be different understandings of religious
(11:46):
texts. And so oftentimes people's religiongets really really super super colonized, or
it gets really super in love withwielding power over people. And I think
that that abuse power is like theroot of colonization, right, And so
oftentimes whenever religion excludes people, itexcludes people that it wants power over,
(12:11):
or that it thinks that, well, you know, these this group of
people, women, gay people,people, Africans, people that are of
other of other things, that thosepeople are inferior in some way, or
there's something wrong with them, andso we're going to exercise power over them.
And so all that to say that, then the journey that I made
and that I'm still making in somewhereor another is holding true, holding very
(12:35):
tightly to what I believe to betrue about my deity and about my religions
sacred text and at the same timebeing okay with mystery and being okay with
embracing I don't have all the answer, and my religious texts actually doesn't claim
(12:56):
to have all the answers, andI can be okay with that that those
are claims, but other people haveplaced on that play on the text,
But the text itself actually doesn't doesn'treally make those claims in the way or
they There might be certain claims maybethat it kind of sort of makes,
but those are understood, Those areunderstood the kind of a culturally quoted way
(13:16):
or whatever. But realizing that Ican, I can hold tight to things
that are that are benefiting me,that are that are building me up while
not having to take on things thatthe more harmful or difficult aspects of those
things. And so I think thatone of the dangers of religious fundamentalism,
(13:37):
and I say religious fundamentalism and notjust Christian fundamentalism, because fundamentalism can happen
in any content. One of thedangers um that I that I think in
that is that it asks you umto check your brain at the door,
right, so to kind of belike, well, okay, you just
you just have to check your brainat the door, and you have to
(14:00):
leave this certain this certain way,even if it goes against what your intuition
is saying, even if it defiescommon sense. This is what the dogma
says. This is what the peoplein power tell you that you have to
believe. And how yes, justkind of blind obedience to somebody's interpretation of
what your religion says that should be. And that's a problem, right.
(14:20):
So, like, I think thatoftentimes the issue is is that people's dogma
will miss like some of the broaderconcepts of what religious text or a faith
tradition or whatever it's teaching. Soagain, Christianity, that's what I know.
Slash Walls also about to speak toyou can if you are from a
different faith tradition, you can certainlyapply this where it needs to where and
(14:45):
how it needs to be applied.But Jesus Christ actually taught about this in
the Bible, where he talks abouthow there were religious people who approach their
faith in a certain way and theymiss some of like the weightier matters of
the law, like he said hekind of actually made in the text.
Is actually like a joke there,but he talks about like how sometimes religious
(15:05):
people will straight an app or they'llweigh a bunch of stuff out, but
they'll miss the waightier matters of thelaw, like they'll they'll miss the waightier
matters of what God is actually tryingto say. And so to then take
that back to some of the issuesthat you brought up is I think that
(15:26):
in my own journey, what Ihave realized is that people often say,
will often put cherry pick scriptures outof the Bible, and will cherry pick
those scriptures to oppress people, andwhat to spare the rise one of the
child, which even in the Bibley'all patches, is not in the Bible,
(15:46):
but not in the way it's notit's not in there in the way
that will think that it that itwould be in there. Um, But
there's like this whole thing where peoplewill will kind of cherry pick and we'll
use those things to oppress people andso but then'll be it'll miss It'll be
like, Okay, well you knowthere's there's a scripture over here. Sometimes
(16:07):
people refer to them as like Clauberverses, where it's like, oh,
there's a scripture over here that saysthat women should get to talk to talk
in church, so women can't bepreachers. And well there's a scripture over
here that that alludes to some typeof practice, some type of that sexual
practice or whatever. So that mustmean that that gay people are sent and
they cherry pick those things and thensay, but then they miss the scriptures
(16:32):
overall message right, love right.And so for me, what I have
chosen to do in my own journeyis to take what I think is a
core central tenet of the scripture.Now, there might be other people that
they're like, oh no, no, she interpreted that scripture wrong and it
ain't what it is. But whatI have chosen to do is I've chosen
(16:52):
to look at my religious texts andstudy and study my religious texts, and
I spent years paid white people wholebunch of myne um to to be able
to look at this text and knowhow to read and interpret the text for
myself. And what I have cometo the conclusion of is that one of
the central themes of the Bible islove and is justice. And so I
(17:15):
have chosen to emphasize that in myway. I've chosen. I've chosen to
hold that. And so all thisother stuff and all this other debating about
who gets to marry whom, andwho gets to preach gets to and who
gets to have sex with whom,I really don't care about that. I
care so I care about loving people, and so loving people leads me to
(17:38):
love my queer, my transgender,my my people, my Muslim, my
Jewish neighbors. Yeah, you know, it's just it's revolutionary, right,
But that's but that's really U that'sreally just the journey that I've been on.
And that might sound some of thatmight sound contradictory to embracing the misty,
(18:00):
but I don't think that is incontradictory, and that is in contradiction
at all. I can say youknow what, I do not have all
of the answers. Know why thisthis scripture is here this way, I
don't. I don't know. Ihave some ideas I can maybe interpret as
to why, but I don't know. If the thing didn't doesn't tell me
(18:22):
why the thing says the thing,I can only guess all the thing says
the thing. So so it's amystery. I have no idea, but
I can lean into that. Ibelieve that God's overall characteristics are for love
and justice and not hatred and notand not bigotry and not whatever. So
again taking holding onto what is goodin my faith and what's good in my
(18:48):
faith tradition, and then talking allthat other junk in the trash like like
we don't we don't need that.Well, you know, I you know,
I run into people. I'm sureyou do all the time. When
it goes back to that, whenwe're talking about children and how they are
the most oppressed group of people whoyou know, it's legal to hit them,
it's legal to do all to dehumanizethem, and they use the Bible
(19:12):
as the tool to be able todo that. And that's what you know,
because like you said, the Biblepreachers love and not to go ahead,
you know, to smack your kidupside the head with this rod.
Yet that is what people choose tohang onto. And it's people who don't
even go to church, like y'alldon't even go y'all don't read the Bible.
But that's the one passage that thatyou're just stuck on, you know,
(19:34):
as you wear polyes that you're notsupposed to be wearing. Right,
So like picking and choosing and inorder to have power over these small people,
and so I kind of want toask you, let me see.
As you mentioned, the point isthat people can use this power over someone
(19:55):
and usually it's about submission, right, They're trying to figure out how to
get someone to submit to something.So, if we're from what people interpret
a wife, a wife is notequal to a husband. A child is
not equal to their parents. Sowhat do we need to understand about dynamics
and relationships and how they impact ourparenting from a religious perspective, especially as
(20:18):
we colonize our spirituality. Yeah,that is a really good question. So
I don't think that it's possible toraise literated children if everyone in your home
isn't free like the period. Now, that's that's an easy answer, but
then there gets to be kind oflike the harder question of Okay, well,
(20:38):
how do you how do we honorour faith traditions? How do we
how do we understand our faith traditions? And how do we hold on to
things that might be important to usor whatever? And so I would say
that first of all, people needto examine what their beliefs are, so
like this idea like like you needto examine what your religious belief system afually
(20:59):
actually said. So I can tellyou that as far as Christianity goes a
lot of the things. So there, So there's a first that people always
talk about about, like how youknow, children are supposed to obey your
parents, but in Ephesians, Imean guests, obeying your parents is also
one of the ten was also oneof the ten commandments. But then that's
expounded on in the Book of Ephesianswhere it's children obey your parents as unto
(21:19):
the Lord. But then it turnsit round it says, parents do not
provoke your children to wrath. Comeon, So you hit touched on this
earlier that a lot of the mindsetbehind this is power is that we have
been taught and it's just been passedalong on down because homes. I'm talking
(21:41):
specifically with Christianity that a lot oftimes people talk about, you know how
how home is the first church,and that's true, But at the same
time, what people often mean bythat is, well, we're going to
take our colonizing principles and you needto make sure that you are enacting those
in your home first, so itmakes it easier for them to submit to
(22:03):
the church. That's where that comesfrom. Now, I think that we
can reappropriate that and say, youknow, our kids, like like are
if you are a person of faith, your faith tradition, what is important
to you. That's something that you'regoing to impart and you're going to and
you are going to pass on toyour children. And I think that there's
that you know, your children alsoshould be able to exercise agency right and
(22:26):
decide there's going to be a pointwhere they might decide, you know what,
actually the set of beliefs doesn't fitme, maybe something else. There
might be a point when they say, oh, hey, I love this
and this is part of who Iam. This is part of who I
am too, and so I don'tthink that we should shy away at all
from if you are a spiritual personraising your children in your own spirituality,
I don't think that we that weshould shy away from that at all.
(22:48):
Right, But oftentimes what people do, but this colonized mindset that people that
people have the people people colonization andthey make it about parents wielding power over
children. So then you know,you grow up and you become the parents,
and so then you decide your powerover your children, and it just
becomes cycles of abuse and power.So something that I want to challenge us
(23:12):
to do is your faith should notbe a cudgel. Right, Like,
your faith should not be something thatyou use to physically beat your children,
literally be your children, psychologically beatyour children. You should not, But
like that's not the business. Faithis something that should be I believe it
should be something that enhances your life. It should be something that builds your
(23:34):
life. It should be something thatmakes you a person of peace, that
makes you a person of justice,that makes you a person that's seeking wholeness
and wellness. That's what faith isfor. And so you can't you can't
be you can't you can't expect todecolonize your faith. You can't expect to
to colonize your parenting. If youare a spiritual person, you can't expect
(23:56):
to do that and then approach yourchildren and approach your spouse with the mindset
of trying to wield power over them, because, like I said, the
root of colonization is abuse of power. And so if we are going to
then approach our children abusing power,now that doesn't mean like like the way
(24:18):
that I see it, because Ihave a four year old and four year
olds each of my kids, Ihave two kids. I have a seven
year old and a four year old. Right now, three was a difficult
age for my seven year old.Four has proven to be a difficult age
for a four year old just interms of like, hey, they're like
there are rules that you that youneed to follow. There are things there
to keep you safe, like youhave to pee in the toilet, you
(24:41):
can't tell anywhere in the house.Like, so what we try to do
is because my four year old isalso she didn't my seven year old started
saying why. She started out withhow, but she would ask how that
she meant why she was doing thattoo? Everything was how, how does
she learn that the word was why, so she started doing why. So
she did that probably up until shewas like four or five, and then
(25:06):
she stopped. My four year olddidn't start doing it until like she was
like three and a half four,and she has made up for lost time
and everything odd earth is why,like her whys have whys, and what
we try to do with her isit's not just like, oh, well
because I said so, But sometimesit's like, you know, I told
(25:26):
you to do this, so likelike I told you to I told you
to not be on the floor,so don't be on the floor please.
There's sometimes there's some moments where it'slike, okay, I can't go into
this expansive explanation. I just askedyou to do it, please, please
do it. And then and thenI always try to make a point where
I do that. I always likea point to explain later, to say
(25:47):
this is why I asked you todo this. Later, but in a
moment I'm not able to explain.But something that we try to do with
our kids. Something we try todo with our kids is not to just
be like, well I did thisbecause I want you to do this because
we say so, but to butto really kind of emphasize that it we
love you, and so we wethink we like, we don't want you
(26:08):
to put your finger in the whitesocket because we love you and that could
hurt, Like, we don't wantyou. We don't want you to to
run through the house because you couldrun into the granite countertop and that that
that juts out in the kitchen andit could hurt you. And so we
(26:29):
don't want you to brown that corner. And so we try to really enact
that in a way that is lovingand not and it begins you could any
any thought process. You can turnit into something that's weird and abusive,
and you can get weird and abusiveand toxic and stuff like that. But
we try to examine. We tryto examine that and try to give our
children power. Um, so there'ssome things that like you can't give your
(26:53):
three year old power to like dowhatever because they're just gonna like eat,
they're gonna they're gonna drink all theorange juice and they're gonna have a tummy
ache, and they're gonna eat everysingle package of goldfish and they're gonna get
a tummy ache and they're gonna pullthe dog the tail and they're gonna say
something, give your kids power todo right, But we tried it.
(27:15):
But we've empower them and help themto make their own choices and to see,
well, there's some things that yeah, that's gonna have a natural consequence
and stuff to it, like maybeokay, guess you're not gonna do that
again, or maybe you should dothat again, or maybe you know,
you hurt somebody's feelings. That's notcool. But yeah, but we try
to try to power, try toparent in a way that isn't about wielding
(27:38):
power and lolding over our kids.And you know, I'm the one that
said that, that said this,and whatever. We apologize to our kids.
We tell our kids whenever we getstuff wrong, like oh I was
oh I was wrong about that,Oh you know what, I misspoke there,
or you know what, you knowwhat because I'm not perfect. Yeah
(27:59):
you know what. I was reallyfrustrated at this point and I raised my
voice and that wasn't a kind thingfor me to do, and I'm sorry.
I feel like when when we dothat with our children, we're humanizing
our small children look at us almostas if we are God's We do control
their very life, you know,and they depend on us. And that's
why when we will that power egregiously, it's so offensive to me, you
(28:22):
know, with with small children,because they have no choice but to depend
on us, you know, andwe have the responsibility to learn how to
wield our power in a way thatempowers them and the way that does not
to humanize them, but also humanhumanizes us. Because for some people,
(28:42):
the parenting power is it feels sothey're like, that's the only way I
got in the world. So that'syou know, that's what I'm a I'm
a I'm a really going in onthis one. Yeah. And you know
something that I'll say specifically speaking tothe African American context, of Black American
context, because I think that oftentimesBlack American parents, because historically the only
(29:06):
place that we've been able to wieldpower or is among the in the church
and among those in our homes,that there are a lot of toxic power
dynamics, toxic paradigms that I haveseen among black parents, particularly black fathers.
And that's not to pick on blackmen at all whatsoever, but there's
(29:27):
like these weird kind of expectations thatthey have for how their children should interact
with them or how whatever that thisis the last thing I'll say that this
is a perennial conversation that comes upon the internet. Is like it's something
that people just like recycle and likeit comes up once every eighteen most you
probably know what I'm about to say. But the whole thing about well who
(29:49):
gets the plate first, Oh mygod, it it just recycles, and
it's like we have we negroes havedebated about this. We have been debating
this on the internet for forever,like Jesus fight another thing. Because I
don't even engage in these in thosetypes of discussions because I think of the
thing that they're ignorant. But Iwill say this, because this is a
(30:11):
parenting thing. I feel like thatthat discussion is inherently flawed because it's not
about it's not about who comes first, it's not about sliding somebody, it's
not about whose power, it's notabout whatever. And I think that a
lot of the premises of then thatconversation often relies on faulty, faulty premises,
and to me, like in myhouse, there are days that like
(30:33):
I'm the one the first one getsmy plate and there are days that my
partner is the first one to gethis plate. There are days that the
kids are the first ones to gettheir plate. And it's not it's just
and it's not like, oh,like I'm symbolically the first person to get
my plate, so I'm the mostimportant. It's it was time to eat.
(30:55):
I called these people to eat.They downstairs watching pepper pig. They
are doing whatever. How was I'mhungry? Well, apparently it has some
cultural context. You know, whenwhen these men would after reconstruction times,
um, that was the only timewhere they could feel like they were the
(31:15):
king of something, right, sothey would come home. Even though women
worked a lot in reconstruction, wewere sometimes the only ones who are working
were black women. But when walkingto the house, it was like,
let me, let me make thisman feel like he has some kind of
power, like he's a king,because out in the world he is dehumanized
and abused and all this other stuff. But you know what, so our
(31:40):
children and so our women to agreater degree, and so I think what
happens is that we have these Ican't stand that conversation either could for me.
It goes into patriarchy right into thatsystem, and we all know that
that's an abusive system, and solike I'm kind of on this thing now
where it's kind of like name thatsystem. When we started, when we
(32:01):
started talking about these things, yougot to look at how what system is
this investing in? What is keepingfor? And why? And who benefits?
Who benefits from this discussion, becauseit really, at the end of
the day, how does it makeor break you? If you don't get
your plate first? Still are aman? So what is what is you
(32:23):
getting a plate have to do withmanhood? These weird associations are harmful,
especially when it comes to women andchildren, because when you don't conform to
them, then sometimes there's violence,you know. Yeah, And I think
that the plate example is a greatexample of how our culture often will take
(32:45):
symbols of things and imbue those symbolswith an undue amount of power and then
hold other people hostage to those tothose symbols. And so then so that
conversation it gets it works my nerves. But I think that it is very
(33:06):
revelatory in terms of who answers andhow they answer. It's very revelatory about
people's politics and about people's whatever,and so it just I hate the conversation.
Are you a burnt out parent oreducator? And get down by a
thread as this pandemic turning to youinto the pairent you always told yourself you
(33:27):
wouldn't want to be. Are yourkids showing signs of stress, anxiety and
acting out more than ever? Well, friend, same, I am in
the same boat as you, andthis bee has taken on water. We
need help. That's why I decidedthis year's Parenting and Colonized conference will be
a remix of my first one,the runa Racism I Radical Parenting Conference.
The remix, happening on September twentythird to twenty five, is a multi
(33:50):
day, fully virtual conference focused onpowering parents with the tools to recalibrate from
past to pop in order to formdeeper connections with their kids. I climbed
up twenty plus educators, parent coaches, mental health professionals, and social justice
leaders to help you get your mindright in parent with intention and for liberation.
My past conferences has helped over threethousand people become the conscious parents they've
(34:14):
always wanted to be. You'll notonly have for grace and patience for your
kids, but for yourself too.Click the link in the show notes for
early bird registration and save forty dollarsoff your ticket today. I'm waiting for
them to put some questions up foryou from the audience. In the meantime,
I just want to ask you whenwe think about you know, the
whole point of this is collective reimagining, right, and your particular topic is
(34:38):
decolonizing you know, spirituality. Whatis that? What does that mean?
Yeah, So whenever I think ofdecolonizing spirituality, I think of people being
of people being able to practice theirfaith in a way that abuse them with
(34:58):
meaning, that gives them a senseof a sense of pride, if that's
if that's the word, but Ican use it. That gives them,
gives them a sense of peace,gives them a sense of pride where they
feel like, regardless of whatever theiridentity is, that they feel love,
that they feel acceptance. And sowhenever we start to talk about decolonization,
(35:21):
then it's also decolonizing religion to thepoint that it's not used to cause harm
to others. Someone is asking,how can one decolonize Christianity when so much
of it is based on evangelization.Yeah, which is spiritual colonism a case
spreading the word. Yeah, soI think that, um, there's a
(35:43):
lot of different ways like it thatI could answer this question. Um.
So I think that I would challengethe assumption that Christianity is predicated on evangelization
and spreading the word. Yes,I know that there's like your vigorate commission
or whatever that exists, that existsin the religious texts, But I want
to challenge the notion that Christ wasjust like, oh, you've got to
(36:07):
go out and spread the word inthe way that people have spread the word
since Constantine. Because spreading the wordwhenever we look at the Book of Acts.
So you see in Matthew, Markand Luke this idea of go out
and tell people about about Christ,tell people, tell people about me,
tell people about about what happened herethat wasn't go and tell people and make
(36:31):
a state religion and kill the peoplewho don't believe and do all this other
type of stuff. And so thatwe have to decouple spreading the good news.
We have to do couple that fromcolonialism. And so that's something that
I think that's very that's very hardto do because a lot of us that's
all that's all we know. Soto me, spreading the good news of
(36:52):
Jesus Christ is I'm doing it rightnow, right. It's talking about my
face in a way and what itmeans to me. Now, I'm not
putting in any demands on you.I'm not saying I'm not going to do
an ant call and say, well, if you want to come, and
if you want to get saved,if you want if you want to fire
insurance or whatever, I'm not doingthat. I am just sharing what my
(37:15):
faith is to me and what itmeans to me and in my life and
in my walk. And if peopledecide that hey, I want what she
has or I want to know moreabout Christianity or whatever, cool, I'm
willing to sit down and talk withyou about it. And if you decide
that you don't want to take it, pick it up, Okay, cool?
We cool, like we were good. And so I think that we
(37:36):
have to couple it from this thisidea of what we see in a lot
of evangelicalism, which is like knockingon people's words. They don't quite do
that that much anymore, but butbut going and trying to make people into
converse rather than and and emphasize onthe making rather than existing and living out
(37:57):
your faith and people, and yourfaith is such that people want to want
to join your ranks, and theychoose to join. Yes, how do
you balance keeping gaining trust from yourchild to care for them while modeling mistakes
and apologizing. That's a very goodquestion. Um so yeah, I guess
that the easy answer is that Ilove my children, and I listen and
(38:20):
I listen to them, I listento their needs. I try to listen
to their desires or well wish it, their wishes whatever. And then also
if I make a mistake, Iadmit it, and so like, I
don't see those things necessarily as asopposed, like I think you can.
You can do both. And thenhow do you reconcile the problematic past and
deeply entrenched spetrocity is done in thename of religion and still held on to
(38:42):
religion and social justice practices and decolonizing. Oh, that's a very good question.
So I think that there is adifference between what a sacred text says
and how people interpret that sacred text, and then the actions that people do
and people's personal axis. And sothat doesn't mean that, oh, well,
all people that went and kill allthe Christians that went and kill people
(39:05):
who are non Christians, Like,well, I can just kind of be
like not it and just kind ofyou know, we've got to reckon that.
We've we've got to excuse me,We've got to talk about that.
We've got it, We've got toabout that. But I think that that
doesn't prevent me from that doesn't preventme. It maybe prevents other people,
but it doesn't prevent me from alsoseeing the beauty of my faith and of
(39:27):
and of my tradition, will alsorealizing that people need to be accountable for
that. And the last thing I'llsay on MAP is that Rachel held Evans
actually wrestles with some of these inher book Searching for Sunday. And then
also she has a book called FaithUnraveled. It used to be called like
something about Monkeytown or whatever, butI think that the publisher changed her new
publisher changed the title to Faith Unraveled, and she wrestles with some of these
(39:50):
things in a beautiful way the audiobookbecause you get to hear it. She
passed two years ago, but youget to hear her voice and on the
audiobooks. Let me check that outmyself because is something I wrestle with a
lot as I do this decolonizing work. So thank you for that. And
the last question we'll ask you iswhat does a reimagine world look like to
you? A world in which everyoneis free, everyone is cared for,
(40:15):
everyone has loved, everyone doesn't wantfor anything they have, they have their
needs met. Yeah, that's whatI think. Doesn't mean the world that's
that's necessarily you know, free ofhurt and harm and whatever, but a
world that is more, that's waymore, just way more equitable than what
we have right now. I reallyappreciate you. This has been super enlightening.
(40:37):
Where can people find you? Sowe can We're gonna make sure to
put all put everybody's information in thechat um so you know, you can
add to your already hundreds of thousandsof followers on Facebook. So you can
find me on Facebook page. It'sjust my name Ali Henny. Um,
there's a writer's there's a writer's page. It's like a public Facebook page.
(40:59):
Like, don't try to friend meon my personal profile. I'm gonna don't
like what like, um um,but if you if you if you file,
if you do my public profile justfollow, follow or like. I
forget Facebook in the like follow whateverit is, do that. I am
also on Instagram as Ali Henny.I'm also on TikTok at the Real Alley
(41:22):
Henny. I don't do TikTok's veryoften, but sometimes I do. I
did one recently, and you canalso find me on Twitter as at the
Armchair Calm. The Armchair Calm isshort for the Armchair Commentary because back whenever
I had my Twitter account, youwere limited that that arm chair Calm was
like the limit of your handle.Now you can have like super long handles.
But I've never changed it. Butthe Armchair Commentary is my personal blog
(41:45):
that I don't post to enough,but it's there and you can subscribe to
it. So whenever there's like afull moon and Mercury's and retrograde and Saturns
in retrograde, and your honest islike you know, in Jupiter or whatever
in Mars or Aquarius, say umyou can, and your honest is in
Jupreter's line with morals and Aquarius andwhatever I post and conditions I post right,
(42:10):
and so you'll get the you'll getthe alerts. And then I'm also
on Patreon um again, just goto Patreon. My name, my podcast,
Coming the Roots, my website aleihaneydot com. Somewhere you're gonna find,
You're gonna find something that is otherthings of me. Well, thank
you so much for being here withme today. I will make sure to
(42:30):
link all that into the show notesso we can follow you. And again,
thank you and thank you all forlistening. Please make sure leave,
be ready and review, and untilnext time, keep the conscious
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!