53. Conscious Parenting Techniques That WORK with Decoteau Irby

How do you raise socially aware children without centering white supremacy or destroying their innocence? It can be difficult, but it’s simpler than you may think… In this episode of Parenting Decolonized, I welcome Decoteau J. Irby, an author, educator, and father of two. Listen in as Decoteau and I talk about effective, impactful methods of conscious parenting that will help you break down systems of oppression in your family and community.

In this episode, we talk about…
How to teach your kids to think expansively and use radical imagination.
The powerful role of community involvement in raising conscious kids.
How do I build up an armor of resilience and resistance in my children?
Decoteau’s decolonized parenting tips and advice.
….and more!

This episode of Parenting Decolonized Podcast is brought to you by the Rona, Racism, and Radical Parenting Conference being held on September 23rd-25th, 2022!

With 25+ speakers from various backgrounds and experiences, this conference is designed to equip you with the knowledge and practical advice you need to help you manage your triggers, yell less, connect more, and raise liberated, emotionally-well children.

Get your early bird tickets and get $40 OFF here: https://parentingdecolonized.lpages.co/tickets/


Don't forget to share, rate, and let me know what you think of this week's episode on Facebook and Instagram!

To connect further with Decoteau:
Visit his website: https://www.decoteauirby.com
Follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/decoteaublack
Follow her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/decoteauirby
Connect with him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/decoteau-irby

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
This podcast is brought to you bythe RONA Racism and Radical Parenting Virtual Conference,
happening on September twenty third to twentyfive. It is designed to help
equip you with the knowledge and practicaladvice you need to manage your triggers,
yell less, connect more, andraise liberated, emotionally well children. Click
the link in the show notes forearly bird registration and save forty dollars off

(00:23):
your ticket. Today. Welcome backto the Parent of the Colonized podcast.
I'm your host, Jelina Williams,and today I have with me Dakota Irby.
How are you. I'm doing well. Thank you. I'm so happy
you're joining me today. Can youplease introduce yourself to the people? Yeah?

(00:43):
Absolutely. My name is Dakota JakeIrby, a son and a father,
a partner. I grew up inSouth Carolina. I've lived in many
places including Philadelphia, Milwaukee, SanFrancisco, and now I reside in Chicago,
where I'm an associate professor in theDepartment of the Educational Policy Studies.
Outside of my formal day job,where I spend most of my time is

(01:07):
being a parent. I have twochildren. I have a son who's seven
years old, and a daughter whois nine years old. She would say
nine and a half. Yeah,specific I'm a creator. I create a
lot of things, music, learningopportunities for people. You know. I've
written books, short stories, plays, so I kind of dabble and dabble

(01:30):
in a lot of different things.I also enjoy gardening and outdoor spaces,
so I spend a lot of timein my community garden. I'm active in
my park. So kind of ajack of all trades that it's one of
the things I find is useful andsometimes required to be a well rounded parent,
because you know, you follow someof their interests and also try a

(01:51):
lot of different things to see whatthey might take to and that sort of
thing. So so, yeah,that's a bit about me. Well,
I'm loving it. There's a bookyou wrote, or is this one story?
The Magical Black Tears Protest Story?First of all, I am in
love with that title, and canyou talk a little bit about that,
but yeah, sure, absolutely so. Magical Black Tears Protest Story is a

(02:14):
book that actually came to me ina dream back in twenty sixteen. At
the time, I was living inMilwaukee and there was a police involved shooting
police officer shot and kill a blackman, and there was an uprising in
the city. And at the timeI was a younger, newer father,
and I guess it was really weighingon me. And I actually had a

(02:35):
dream one night, a very vividdream, and I woke up that night
and I sketched out the dream.I told some friends and colleagues about it,
and they thought it was a greatidea. I showed them the sketches,
but then I never did anything withit until twenty twenty when George Floyd
was murdered and I had children whowere asking me questions about why were people

(02:58):
protesting and why people are out inthe street. So the story is about
a father and a mother and theirattempt to protect two children and from what's
going on in the world, untilthey realized that, you know, they
can't really protect them. So inthe story, the children are asking what's

(03:19):
happening. They're not allowed to gooutside and play this particular day, you
know, they're called into the houseand they're asking their parents. They're looking
at the TV trying to figure outwhat's going on. Their parents tell them,
don't worry about it. It'll beover in the morning. Well,
like children do. They were curiouslike children, or they were curious and
they decided to protest, don't worryabout it, and they go out at

(03:40):
night when everybody's sleep to find outwhat's happening in the streets. And in
the process of being out in thestreets, they discover the magic of people
who are fighting for racial justice.And I won't give any spoilers, but
that's the general premise of the book. I love it because I just so.
I started in on my little TikTokjourney and someone was asking, how

(04:01):
you know, for black people,black parents who are trying to raise children
who are socially aware, who areresistors, how do we make sure we're
not centering white supremacy and how wespeak about things? And then for me,
my response to that is to surroundmy daughter with images, art,

(04:23):
books, dolls, media of blackness, of you know, of black joy,
of black beauty. How do youapproach that? Like, how do
you as a black parent, becauseI know a lot of us are like,
well, we don't. We wantto keep them as innocent as possible
for as long as possible, Likeblack children do not get to have a
childhood in a lot of respects.But we know that the world is what

(04:47):
it is, and we need totalk to them about the world. So
how do you go about that withyour own children? Yeah, I mean
it is, it's very tough.I think I came into initially came into
parents a bit more idealistic in termsof what I of how I could protect
their childhood, I could protect theirinnocence, and then, you know,

(05:10):
I realized that that's very difficult.So, for example, in twenty twenty,
like you know, I live inChicago, and there were uprisings here,
and you know, we had smokecoming into our house. So you
know, you gott explained to thekids with a smoke coming from you know
what I mean. And so Ithink part of what I try to do
is to be honest with them aboutwhat's happening. But I always try to

(05:31):
make sure that within the stories andwithin how I'm framing things, that I'm
helping them understand the strength and theresilience of black people. So, for
example, when we talk about,you know, the Transatlantic slave trade,
you know, for a long time, my children would say, well,
they just couldn't understand why people woulddo that, right, So My daughter
asked these very simple questions, like, well, if they needed us for

(05:55):
labor, why didn't they just likepay us, or why didn't they just
ask us to help them learn howto grow rice and indigo? Why they
have to steal us to do that? And so, you know, I
talk to her and I'll tell herthings like, well, you know,
we're strong people, right. Firstof all, we're intelligent. We knew
how to grow rice, which isa difficult crop to grow, so we
knew how to grow rice, cultivaterice. We understood color and vibrancy,

(06:18):
so we understood indigo. We grewindigo, right, We knew how to
use dyes and all these different sortsof things. And so what I tell
them is like people envy and wantedwhat we had, including our physical strength,
our ability to be immune to youknow, like malaria. Like we
were the people out of all ofthe people in the world who people looked

(06:39):
at and said, those people arebrilliant. They know how to grow rice,
they're fashion sense, they style asdope, they understand indigo, their
color, you know, it's thisvibrancy, and people wanted that. And
then I always kind of helped themunderstand that it's not on us what kind
of decisions other people made about howthey treated us. We got to recognize
that if we understand and know ourroutes, that when we're in the right

(07:00):
conditions, we're gonna grow and we'regonna thrive. So, you know,
that's kind of how I just talkedto them about it. And I'll always
try to end on this, notnecessarily a note of optimism, but a
note of curiosity. And so,for example, when I live close to
where I live out in Chicago,we had a lot of looting and stores

(07:21):
being broken into along the commercial thoroughfareness, you know, block away from my
house. So my partner and Iwe decided that when that happened, they
were gonna see it anyway. Sowe were going to take them for a
walk, right, So we said, we're gonna walk down to We're gonna
walk down the block. Y'all gonnasee Burger King, destroyed dollar store,
destroy banks, you know, allthis kind of stuff. Right, So

(07:43):
we walked and you know, aswe're walking, you know, my daughter
was like, you know, wherewe're gonna eat breakfast? You know,
they had these really basic questions,but the question that We kept on posing
a hint to them was what elsedo you want to see here? What
else could be here? Right?This building is burnt down, Now what

(08:03):
would you put here? And theywas coming up with wild stuff, you
know, they said, Yo,we're gonna make a bouncy house with six
flags. Were gonna put six flagsright here in the neighborhood, you know
what I mean. So our thingwas just like, that's that's cool,
you know what I mean. That'sgood, that's a great idea. And
so a lot of it was toleave it on a note where they were
able to use their imaginations. Soit's opposed to saying like everything's gonna be

(08:26):
okay. We would try to instilla sense of agency, like what do
you want to see here? Whatwould you put here? That's powerful,
powerful in the sense that I feellike a tool of white supremacy delusion to
destroy our our imaginations, right,Like radical imagining is what kept us fighting

(08:46):
for freedom, our ancestors fighting forfreedom and running away and resistant and burning
down kitchens. Like being able toimagine a world in which there were no
enslaved black people people in the UnitedStates, It had to be imagined by
somebody it didn't just happen. AndI think I think people discount the fact

(09:07):
that it is necessary for us tokeep imagining in to instill this really deep
sense of hope and imagination and toour kids. But also, this is
a collective thing. Um, it'snot one person running right now, we're
living in the imaginations of rich whitemen. That's what we're living in.
It's white so fucked up. Sorry, you know, because that's why it

(09:30):
is the way it is, becauseit is not made for anyone else but
rich white men. So when wetalk about um liberation, we can't.
We have to imagine, really radicallyimagine what would this world look like without
anti blackness, without without capitalism,without misogyny and patriarchy. What does that

(09:54):
look like, what does it feellike? And then work together to figure
out what that reality, how it'sgonna serve the collective and not just a
few. And that is so importantto instill in our children a sense of
imagination, and that's an amazing thing. I want to start doing that when
my daughter is able to really understandand make sure I do that as well.

(10:16):
Yeah. Pro tip, really makesure that you're asking these questions,
how do you to your children,by the way, and to your community,
but really asking your kids about howthey feel about race relations. Do
you have like a discussion with them. Yeah, yeah, I do.
And it's interesting because sometimes you know, it sways right. But you know,

(10:39):
we made an intentional choice to likeraise our children and you know,
a neighborhood that is you know,nine black, all different kind of black
folks. I mean, you know, my kind of intention was the you
know, almost kind of create likea little bubble, you know, where
they can run down the sidewalk intowhite These they're running for. You know,

(11:00):
they're running because they this is basicspot that I wanted for them to
be able to have, is youknow, something like being able to run
and being able to you know,play screen loud, be loud, you
know what I mean, those kindof things. Yeah, that's the kind
of things that I think are thingsthat I felt responsibility, obligation if I

(11:24):
could, to try to provide forthem. And so, you know,
I think those are some of thekind of things that like a lot of
people end up you know, takingfor granted. But those are the things
that I'm super serious about. Itgot much more difficult once they started to
move into their school years because haveless control over like who's in the school
building. But you know, wejust talked very openly with my children.

(11:48):
It was I write some of thestuff down that they say because they helped
me understand how they're thinking. Andmy goal is always to kind of try
to create the kind of situation wherethey just think very expansively. So I'll
give you two examples. My sonat one time. This is how I
kind of interact with them. Meand my son when we were right we
were on the bus. We weregoing to the zoo in Chicago, which

(12:11):
is on the North Side, whichis predominantly white. So we was on
the bus and that we had todo a transfer. So at one point
we got on the transfer on theNorth side and my son saw a white
man driving the bus and he wasjust like yeah, he was like,
Daddy, like this white man.It's a white man driving the bus.
You know what I'm saying. Andso my response was, if white people

(12:33):
work hard and stay in school,they can drive buses too, right,
Because in his mind, like youknow, he's thinking the truck drivers,
bus drivers, these are things thathe's like, oh, this this is
really cool. And so I wantedto. I say things to them that
kind of seemed ridiculous, but I'msaying, You're like, well they can
be what we are too, rightright, look things around, and then

(12:54):
you know, my daughter, she'sa trip some kind of way she said
that she had. She was like, you know, I was in my
bed and there were some pieces ofwhite people here in my bed, you
know what I mean. So Isaid really, and she was like yeah,
I don't know how they got there. I said, well, did
you play with some white kids atcamp, you know, summer camp.
She was like no, and Ijust was joking. I said, well,
maybe it was maybe it's the toothfairy hair or something like that,

(13:16):
you know what I mean. Andshe was like yeah. She was like
yeah, I bet the tooth fairywhite. That's why she'd be taking so
long to bring me my money,you know. So I was just like,
yeah, probably. So she waslike that's because she focused on the
white kids teeth. So, youknow, just those kind of things like
I just I just laugh, youknow what I'm saying. But I let

(13:37):
them kind of say what they youknow, make sense of the world and
make sense of things, whether it'syou know, the explanation of why the
tooth fairy is not bringing the money. You know what I'm saying, it
has the tooth fairy gotta be whitethere, you know what I'm so,
you know, I just let themkind of make sense of things, and
then I also just kind of say, these little um a lot of little
smart mouth stuff that just always senther us, always position us, you

(14:01):
know, like the bus driver situation, like whatever, like they can be
like us. And so you know, I'm hoping that those kind of things
make them think and move through theworld in a way where we're doing what
we do and everybody else really istrying to get down and be like us.
Well, I mean they are.That's just called you know, black

(14:24):
people are the cultural icons of thisworld. And you know what I'm learning
as I go through my own decolonizingexperiences. I started this journey, I
realized I look back at some ofthe stuff I wrote on Facebook. Some
of it is hella embarrassing, buta lot of it I was trying to
figure out, like where do Ifit in in this world and figure out
my thoughts. And I didn't reallyget into decolonized it until I had my

(14:46):
daughter, and what I am realizingis how we were sold this idea that
Black Americans are missing something because ofour anstutry that was stolen from us.
Right like we are, there's thishole inside of us that can only be
filled if we go, you know, to the motherland. And let me
tell y'all something. While I reallywant to connect with my rooms, I

(15:09):
did my little ancestry and I amNigerian, I'm trying to figure out the
tribe all that stuff, I wantto also honor the fact that African Americans
have created our own culture that isnow a world where I like, people
emulate our culture all day long,and if the roots are African in that,

(15:30):
but we have a distinct culture ofour own that we really need to
be proud of. And I reallywant to instill that into my daughter.
A lot of you know, aroundmy house, it's a lot of Afrocentric
decorations and everything. You can seeit behind me, y'all can't see it.
But I also really always want toremind her just being a Black American,
being an African American, that there'sa culture there. The music,

(15:54):
you know, the clothing, theslant, everything, how we speak.
Everyone's trying to get like us likeall the time, and we have to
always make sure that we are notsaying to ourselves that we are broken ever,
just because you know, our ancestors, there's something there that we need
to explore. I'm all for gettingback to your roots, but not at

(16:15):
the expense of our own culture doesn'tmake sense. Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely,
I agree, one hundred percent.I mean, you know, part
of like, I never have takenthe time to do the ancestry work and
stuff like that, right, like, um, and I don't know,
in a way I can see theallure of it, but I never have

(16:36):
felt really compelled to do so becauseI feel like I'm valuable as is,
yes, whether and my children.You know, even if it's a bit
of mystery there, we still knowby virtue of us being here that we
come from like greatness, right,and we have so much in triview and

(16:57):
so you know, yeah, Iagree with you one hundred percent. You
know, Um, I you knowoftentimes have like you know, debates with
people about you know, um,you know, the wide spectrum of black
Americans, black people in America inthe United States, and I mean there's

(17:18):
beauty everywhere, you know, Um, And that's one of the things that
I always have just realized, andI think it's a it's a it's a
decision that you have to make tosee, to see beauty, to see
um, you know, genius,all that kind of stuff. And that's
what I'm always looking at and lookingfor, and so it leads me to

(17:40):
even interact and love us in away that it's difficult to do when you
think that people are void of somethingbecause they don't know like specifically, yeah,
where it came from and so onand so forth. Yeah, yes,
I totally agree. So when itcomes to that kind of stuff,
because I guess for me, I'mtrying to really instill listens of stuff I
wanted. I think about it likean armor. We know when we are

(18:02):
kids do this house. Whiteness iseverywhere, And I'm trying to build up
an armor so when she is releasedinto this world, she'll be able to
resist and really not let that stuffpierce that armor. But I'm just like
always thinking, like, am Idoing enough? Because I guess you won't
know until they really out. She'sonly four, and she's autistic, and

(18:23):
she's also non speaking, So allI can do right now is just until
you to build and build and buildwhen it comes to your own children,
Like how do you sort of otherways you build up that armor. Yeah.
You know it's interesting because you mentionedthat you asked the question are you
doing enough? And I've recently,you know, started to ask my question

(18:45):
myself, the question I might haveI been doing too much? Because you
know, I mean the sad partis, and I think that your finest
too, is that this world hasa deep, disdanged fear of black people
who have a deep sense of self. Yeah. I've tried to really instill

(19:07):
that, and it's a challenge becauseas my children move through the world,
it gets interpreted as though, liketheir sense of self that gets interpreted as
you know, disrespectful. Yeah,you know, bigheaded, you know that
kind of stuff. Yeah, byblack people, by white people, by

(19:30):
white people, everybody, by everybody, because we're not supposed to be confident
in ourselves, especially not black children. Yeah, you're not supposed to ask
no questions. You're not you know, how I grew up. So you
know, if you think about likecolon parenting, be colonized, right,
how I grew up is that you'renot even supposed to look a certain way
to listen when you upset, nofeelings. So my thing is that like

(19:51):
no feelings, no expression, fixyour face. It's very hard to fix
your face, you know what Imean. I didn't I realize that now
that, like you know, that'sa feat for us to try to fix
our face. It took a tremendousamount of emotional and physical effort to try
not to try to you know,fit yourself into so you wouldn't be hit
or something like yeah, so youknow, I try to um. And

(20:15):
so they do have in our householdtheir range of expressiveness right where it's like,
you know, they can get anattitude, you know, and that
sort of thing, and we tryto work with it and talk through it.
But that's part of what I wantthem to learn because that's going to
be important when they go out intothe world. And I see so many
people who didn't have the opportunity toengage in that practice at home, and

(20:38):
then they go out to the world. They in work places where people are
abusive to them, their in relationshipswith people are abusive to them, and
all this is a consequence of nothaving an opportunity to learn in the most
important learning space in community that youhave in your formative years is with the
people who are caretaking for you.So I want them to know that,

(20:59):
like, if something not right,you can say something to me about it.
Right, Not only can you,you should say something to me about
it. But now when you putthat into another context, whether it's a
school or whether it's an interaction withyou know, anybody else, that's it's
interpreted in a way that they're notsupposed to do that, do that,
And but white children get to dothat all the time, you know what

(21:21):
I mean, And so it getsinterpreted in a lot of different ways.
So the question that I'm always wrestlingwith now is have I done too much?
Because to be you know, tobe honest and to be straight up
and be you know, makes myselffeel vulnerable, like it creates problems you
know what I mean in the broaderworld. Yeah, you know what I
mean. And it's like, yeah, if I have a child who is

(21:44):
going to determine for theirselves that they'renot going to let something go and they're
not gonna be quiet about something,what does that mean for their safety as
they moved to the world, youknow what I mean? And so that
kind of stuff is a parent reallyworries me, but I know that it's
of my doing because we've been atCNAL about cultivating a space at home where
you can learn how to debate,you can learn how to negotiate, you

(22:06):
can stand up for yourself, youknow, that kind of thing. And
we always not only doing it oneon one, we do it for one
another as well. In our house. You know, like my wife will
say, you know, she didn'tget to finish talking, right, Yeah,
okay, let me listen. ThenI'm gonna listen to you know what
I mean. And then and thenyou know, my daughter, with how

(22:26):
she's raised, she'll be like,thank you. Let me you know,
she'll say thank you in a waythat's like, you know, okay,
mommy said junior, let her finish. She's like, thank you, and
then she'll continue on that same thankyou. It's the kind of thing that
could easily get a child like removefrom their classroom, could escalate a situation
yea who thinks they're being disrespectful,But I mean it's just like you know,

(22:48):
so those are the kind of differentkind of things that I try to
do is really create a household spacewhere they're able to practice the things that
they're gonna need as they move throughthe world if they're not going to be
taking advantage of abused, little disrespected, and the place to practice, the
safest place to practice is at home. I mean, you ain't said numb

(23:11):
of the word because this is alot of black parents. We start talking
about conscious parents because but that's whatyou're talking about here is conscious decolonized parenting,
which is allowing your child, noteven allowing, because I hate that
word. They have agency naturally right, So being able to advocate for yourself,
like encouraging that is how we protectthem. But it's also scary.

(23:33):
A lot of black parents understand that. You know, historically, the way
that we were parented was protection againstwhite supremacy, against whiteness in a world
that could get you killed if youspoke to someone wrong, looked in their
eyes. I mean, we knowthat, but now it's about are we

(23:55):
going to be their oppressors just totry to protect them from being oppressed?
And even though it's so scary forus as black parents in a world that's
filled with anti blackness, to raiseblack children who are outspoken, who are
confident, who will advocate for themselvesand know they're worth that shit scary because
we know that they can become targetsat school and on the streets by adults

(24:18):
who see children, especially black children, as people that need to be that
need violence in order to be controlled. It's a scary process and it really
requires us to let go of alot of fear. Like it's there,
it's valid, right, but Ican't let that fear be the thing that
drives my relationship with my children.At the end of the day, I

(24:41):
want her if she ends up gettingdetention at school because she told the teacher
how she felt, Okay, we'regoing to get ice cream, and I'm
cussing that teacher out, you knowwhat I'm saying, Like, I might
always be on my child side ifshe advocate for herself. So as long
as she under I think, aslong as our kids understand that they're not
in this alone, and that's wherecommunity comes in. Everyone a wound.

(25:03):
My daughter. You don't have toyou don't have to necessarily be a conscious
parent or practice conscious parenting. Butwhat I require in order to be around
her is that you respect the factthat this is non violent over here,
that we're not calling kids bad,that we're not talking about her hair or
skin color in order to be incommunity with us, and so my family

(25:25):
and was born into had to geton board with all of that. But
because of social media, I havefound an amazing community of people who think
just like me and want to raiseour kids together. And actually we're going
to be forming a collective and gettingland together and raising our kids together because
we want to be a community.Have a farm and everything. And you
know what I'm saying, like growour food, live sustainably. It's single

(25:47):
moms and our kids and be ableto raise our kids in this bubble.
Like you said of safety of protection, are you a burnt out parent or
educator hanging out by a thread?Has this pandemic turns you to the pair
you always told yourself you wouldn't wantto be. Are your kids showing signs
of stress, anxiety and acting outmore than ever? Well, friend,

(26:08):
same, I am in the sameboat as you, and this speed has
taken on water. We need help. That's why I decided this year's Parent
and the Colonized Conference will be aremix of my first one, the run
Races of my Radical Parent and Conference. The remix happening on September twenty third
to twenty fifth is a multi day, fully virtual conference focused on pattering parents

(26:29):
with the tools to recalibrate from chaosto pop in order to form deeper connections
with their kids. I've lined uptwenty plus educators, parent coaches, mental
health professionals, and social justice leadersto help you get your mind right in
parent with intention and for liberation.My past conferences has helped over three thousand
people become the conscious parents they've alwayswanted to be. You'll not only have

(26:52):
more grace and patience for your kids, but for yourself too. Click the
link in the show notes for earlybird registration and save forty dollars off your
ticket today. So let's talk aboutcommunity as far as being able to because
I feel like community is so importantwhen we're raising these de colonized kids.
M. Yeah, it is.Um. You know, I have the

(27:15):
approach that I have taken, isyou know, really relying on like,
you know, being present. Ireally don't try to get my children to
be like involved in anything specifically,but I try to involve myself and be
very present so they can like seehow I'm moving. So, you know,
Um, shortly after my daughter wasborn, I formed a cooperative,

(27:37):
a consulting cooperative, and because youknow, I wanted her to see me
work in a different kind of way, in a different kind of institution than
you know, the institutions that werethat you know there are in abundance in
the United States, not everywhere,but so we're work in a cooperative,
you know. Like I mentioned umin my introduction, I'm active in my

(27:59):
community guard and so they always seeme planting, growing food. I try
to take care of like plants,and you know there's a plant that you
know some people who would have countedout and I was like, well,
the roots are not dead, soit'll come back, you know. So
I try to do those sorts ofthings, you know, involved in my
neighborhood, park, active in theschool, and so I really want them

(28:19):
to see me present. And alsoI bring them a lot of places with
me because you know, I wantthem to see themselves. I want them
to see possibilities. And so Ireally try to walk the walk and give
them access to walk alongside me orjust to sit back and watch me.
So you know, I take themthe meetings, like important meetings. People
be like, you know, you'regonna bring your kids I'm like, yeah,

(28:41):
you know what I mean. Wein I was in a meeting about
two weeks ago. So the MagicalBlack Tears Book. We're working to create
a traveling museum exhibit based off ofthe book. It teaches children the power
of protests and the relationship between protestsand direct action and racial justice. And

(29:03):
so we've been having these meetings.We had a partnership meeting in Milwaukee.
So we're in Milwaukee. We're atthe meeting and you know, I'm presenting
my colleagues, all of us aroundthe table, and my daughter she listening
to us, she's off on theside, and then she like slips me
a note, you know what Imean, Like I missed something during the
meeting. So I like look atthe note and she had drew out something

(29:25):
that she wanted me to kind oflike share with everybody, you know,
so you never know what they're soakingup where they feel like they can contribute,
and so they have to be ableto have access to the spaces,
to the guard and to you know, whatever the league is. You know,
we take them to you know,we're on the parkt Visory Council for
our local park in Chicago. Basicallythese are community groups of residents who come

(29:48):
together and volunteer to caretake for apark and for green spaces. So you
know, we're on that parkt BvisoryCouncil, so we take her to that,
so you know, and take bothof our kids to that, so
people know our kids through that justby being present with us. But the
other important thing is that they're learninghow to be in community by watching us,
And that's not something also that youcan just assume that people are going

(30:11):
to know how to do community.Like we can go to a mutant and
the community. We can go toa meeting and they can hear disagree with
people and then after the meeting we'retalking and we're okay, yeah, right.
So they have to see that tolearn it. And so those are
the kind of things that I thinkare like really important is to have them
in multiple different kinds of setting tolearn what it means to be in community,

(30:33):
to work with people, and toshow up and be present. It's
been it's been interested in My sonplays baseball, and probably about like a
third through the season, he didn'twant to go to no games anymore.
And I was like, well,you know, I understand, but like
you know, you remember the lastgame when you made that run, like
you came through for the team,like your team needs you, you know
what I mean. And so hewas just like, okay, you know,

(30:56):
he kind of got it, andthen he kind of got back into
it. I was like, it'sit's about you, yes, but it's
about you a relationship with your teammates, you know what I mean. You
bring something special when you show up. Everybody who's on that team brings something
special when y'all show up. Y'alla team, y'all stronger when y'all all
together. You know what I'm saying. The game is better when y'all all
together. And you know, sobeing able to put them in experiences where

(31:18):
they able to see that and solike, you know, he makes a
run and somebody else bats him.I mean, you know he gets on
base, somebody else backs, andman, you have these concrete, age
appropriate experiences that allowed them to understandhow a community works and that sometimes like
you might not want to show up, but it's okay to show up for
the team. I tell them Idon't. I don't be wanting to get
up to make y'all cereal, youknow what I mean? Like I'd rather

(31:42):
lay here. You know what I'msaying. I know y'all can't reach the
cereal I get up that I'm partof the team, you know what I
mean. We have to model it. We have to model community. And
I don't know if you've seen Idon't even want to get into all of
it, but I'm sure you've seenthat whole social experience that was the McDonald
McDonald's conversation around a father bringing onlyhis child McDonald's and not the other children

(32:08):
in the house. And for me, oh, thank you Jesus, I'm
glad you didn't because it was terriblebecause what I've learned, you know,
as I decolonized, it's just howdeep the indoctrination goes into this white capitalist
patriarch. It's so deep the indoctrinationfrom the moment we come out the bomb
and until we are buried, becauseit is just around us all the time,

(32:31):
we don't even really understand how individualisticwe are indoctrinated to be. And
so for me, when I sawlike all these people are just like,
those are not his kids? Hebringing his child? Whoo, those not
his kids? And my kid,I'm thinking, like we feed children period.
It's not about we just I seea child and they're hungry, and

(32:53):
I feed them, and it doesn'tmatter if they're not mine. I'm gonna
feed the children. And I feellike we've gotten so used to the suppression
that we don't even see how it'saffecting us collectively as black people, because
it's so much individualism, and alot of that was cultivated. I just

(33:13):
saw this amazing threat and he wasjust like he pinpointed it. A lot
of it was cultivated in the eightiesbecause in the sixties and seventies there's a
lot more community oriented, right,that's when all the Black Panthers and you
know, all the Civil rights movement, a lot of people were like collectively
organizing. When the government killing allthose people off and then introduced drugs to
the community, and there was theeighties excess, everybody was just on board

(33:34):
with just making money and that wasthe focus, and it stopped being about
community. And now we're seeing theeffects of that and how people aren't able
to have conflict resolute that no onekid is able to speak to each other
with empathy and respect. We seethat on social media and in person.
Just the lack of self awareness,but also a lack of empathy towards the

(33:55):
person that you're speaking with, andthe need to be right is so in
reigned in us. All the whitesupremacy culture traits are everywhere, and if
we're not careful, and a lotof us aren't aware, we will be
modeling to our children how to basicallymaintain system of oppression just by being just
by refusing to be a model.And on top of that, you are

(34:20):
also modeling that they matter too whenyou bring them with them. I think
a lot of us forget that childrenmatter, that children should be a part
of the conversation. We keep talkingabout black liberation, but for a lot
of us, black liberation does noteven include children. But we out here
still want to whoop them and yellat them and want the freedom to do
whatever the hell we want to them. So if your liberation movement does not

(34:40):
include children and they don't have asay in it, it's not true liberation.
It's harmful to me still because childrenare the most marginalized and oppressed group
of anyone, and they have zeropower like we do collectively. They can't
raise themselves, so well, thesehave to be inviting them into spaces that

(35:01):
are age appropriate and allowing them tohave to say. And I love that
you. You know, you werejust like you out the past you note.
You weren't just like oh there andsit down. They be along with
these notes. You read the note, it was just like okay, okay,
yeah, you're right. I forgotthat, you know what I'm saying,
Like, that's how we treat ourcholths like they matter, because then
they grow up and they feel likethey matter and that their voice matters and

(35:22):
that they're able to make a change. No, I mean, what you're
saying is all rings very true.And I think it's a good opportunity for
me to talk about this because Ithink a lot of what I do I
just you know, I don't everexplain the why. But yeah, like
I bring my children to stuff,and sometimes when people ask me, I'll
explain like I want them to bein the room. I think one of
the challenges is is that I findit children do not have enough opportunities to

(35:49):
be around adults just doing and modelingthings right. So they're they're often told,
but they don't have the chance towalk along, walk behind. They
have very few chances to walk aheadup and in front of us. But
a lot of times even I'll tellmy children, like, you know,
we're going X y Z, likeyou lead the way you walk, you
know where we you know, we'llgo on to walk around the neighborhood.
I remember when they were pretty young, I would say, you know,

(36:12):
y'all know where we at. They'dbe like, oh, I'd be like,
y'all lead the way, I'm gonnafollow. Ya'll get us back home.
You know what I'm saying. Ifthey took went all kind of different
routes, I just went where theywent, you know what I mean.
And it's still's the kind of somy son, one of my good friends
visited from um from North Carolina,and he said that he, you know,
yeah, I'm gonna walk around theneighborhood. And my son at the
time was five, and he waslike, I'm gonna show you around,

(36:35):
you know what I mean. He'swalking him around everything. I mean.
Of course, he made his wayto the coffee shop and got him whatever
you know what I mean, anda hot chocolate. But he was just
like he was like, um,he ran into some elders and they were
just like you know, um,you know, they stopped to talk and
he was like, yeah, myuh, my friend's son is giving me
a walk walking to a round theneighborhood. He's five. But I wanted

(36:58):
him to have that sense of like, you know, I can kind of
lead you know, adults, youknow what I mean. He can lead
brand through his community and that sortof thing. So I think that that
confidence to be able to do somethinglike that doesn't grow unless they have a
parent a caretaker in there like thatsays okay, I'm gonna let you leave
me home. Yeah, now heknows. He's confident that somebody else is,

(37:20):
you know, a visitor to ourcommunity. And he's five or six.
But I can lead you around,I can show you where you need
to go, you know what I'msaying. And so those are the kind
of things that I think are important. And you know, I can remember
my daughter was very young. Iwould do these professional development sessions and a
lot of people they would say,like, you know, I don't have
which by the way, this becamemore difficult with two children. But if

(37:42):
I can take one, it's veryeasy to take one with me. And
I would take her to stuff withme. But before we would go,
I would tell her what I'm gonnabe doing, what we're gonna be doing,
and I would give her little thingsto do. You're gonna hand out
the papers, You're gonna hand outthe pencils. And so I would introduce
her at the beginning of their presentation, like I'm here to present, you
know, and my daughter, youknow, I tell her, introduce yourself.

(38:04):
She introduced herself. I say,she's gonna be helping me today.
Now, it would take a longtime because when I tell her to hand
out the papers, she's not gonnagive like five to the table. She's
gonna do each one. But Ialways wanted her to do it her way.
Yeah, and people if people lovedit, you know what I mean.
And it would be interesting because atthat time, and she was probably
about three or four at this time, and people were writing in the evaluations

(38:24):
of the workshops, why don't wethink like she couldn't be involved? She
couldn't, you know. I'd belike, and I would be like,
all right, Kayla's gonna circulate andcollect the papers now, you know,
so you could just put them onthe edge of your table, but she's
gonna come around and get them.She would come around and get the papers
or X y Z. But Iintentionally said she's gonna be there. I
don't want her to just be passive. I want her to be actively involved.

(38:45):
And saw a plan for it tobe actively involved. And if we
thought about our children as people whoare gonna walk alongside behind, then sometimes
in front of us, we wereplaying out our lives and planning out our
days and playing out our work ina different way that allows them to actually
be there and be present. SoI think that those kind of things,
um, those saw I'm mentioned inthis because those are the experiences that taught

(39:09):
her that she can be in ameeting with me two weeks ago as a
nine year old now and slip mea note she felt. She was like,
I can contribute. Yeah you winit, you win it, Yeah,
you win it. I'm not justhere as a bystandard. Like I'm
listening and I have something to contribute. And what's what's weird when we start

(39:30):
thinking about adults and how they generallyview children as like empty vessels. I
hate when people say that it's weirdbecause children are the ultimate resistors. They
teach us about resistance, say we'relike you tell them, especially younger children.
Let them leave, because they're gonnashow you how to resist. They're
gonna show you if they naturally arethey they naturally are like, no,

(39:52):
don't tell me what to No,I don't want to do that. This
is my body, like I don'twant to go here, I don't want
to eat that. And we becas we are taught that we have to
impose upon them our will. Webeat that out of them or yelled out
of them, or gaslight that outof them, and then we wonder why.

(40:13):
Then they get older and we're justlike, oh, why didn't you
stand up for yourself or why didn'tyou speak up? This is kind of
like when they had to do that, when we got to just allow them
to lead sometimes, like you said, or at least walk alongside us.
And you know, when she isolder and right now she's a little bit
wild. But what I have beennoticing is that I needed to check my

(40:34):
ableism in regards to her autism,right because in my mind I'm still thinking
of her as someone who's not capableof doing certain things. I have started
to assume competence at all levels.I looked up one day and I looked
at when I gave I usually giveher a little food and I've been letting
her just carry carry it into thefrom the kitchen to her little table.

(40:58):
She'll sit down and eat blah blahblah. And I was on the sofa
and I was like, where thehell does she put this plate? And
I'm starting to get irritated because I'mjust like, where's this plate? Dog
eating stuff? She had put thatplate in the sink. I just didn't
see her do it. I'm justlike, she puts her play in the
sink, now, you know.And I just was like, I'm noticing
that she notices pattern. She noticesme doing things, and she's modeling them.

(41:20):
So I really need to be morecareful about what I'm doing and always
assume competence for her to be ableto do the things that I'm doing because
she is watching. The girl wantsto make eggs now all the time.
I just I try to do asmuch as I can because she can't be
touching the eggs, but she'll grabthe salt and pepper and she'll want to
she wants to grab the olive oilfor me to make the little the eggs

(41:44):
in. I'm just like, thischild is watching me. She's watching me,
and I assume that she wasn't becauseshe's autistic, but she is watching
me, and that was my internalizedableism. That's my strength, ableism,
And and a lot of parents withautistics. We need to check it all
the time. We need to checkour ableism because and we can check our

(42:05):
adultism. I guess I should bechildism, because that's the ism right there.
Our adult supremacy is that we canonly do things right, and they
need correction all the time when reallythey're they're they're teachers just like we are.
We just need to be able tosee it. So I'm so thankful
for like the tips that you alreadygave. You know, I love what

(42:28):
you said about modeling how to bein community. Are there any other ways
that parents can do this? Yeah? I mean I think, you know,
thinking about whatever household configuration is asa community, right, thinking about
the different groups that you're in andhow you show up, on how you
interact and how you talk about peopleafter the meeting. You know, after

(42:50):
you talk about people in you know, you're away from their presence. All
of that is you know, modeling, and they pick up on all that
stuff. I think the other thingis just you know, just asking a
lot of questions. I mean,I'm a person that I used to ask
them questions and just not expecting animmediate kind of like answer or you know,

(43:13):
but just let them sit with ideasand to sit with curiosities. I
tend to do that a lot.You know. One of the things that
always like to remind people, like, even if you think about something like
math, the way that students likelearn math is that people tell them like,
these are the steps, this isthe procedure. Well, if everybody
had only learned steps, we wouldhave no mathematical theory, right, we
would have no formulas. Like somebodyactually in human history had to make this

(43:35):
up. And so I'm always sayingthat, like, you know, whether
it's a particular set of steps andprocedures somebody developed that. So even math
and that kind of thing is actuallya creative undertaking that it is possible when
people are curious about how to solvea problem or answer the questions. And
so I'm always giving them like youknow, they ask me or X y

(43:58):
Z, and you know, wealways try to flip it back around to
them and ask them a question aboutit. And I just kind of hold
it on my head and ask them, you know, even a week later,
Hey, have you been thinking aboutthat you know problem that I ask
you? And they're just like,yeah, I have, And then we
might talk about it, and anotherweek might go by and I might bring
it up again. But I reallytry to resist giving them answers to everything

(44:20):
because I want them to be ableto develop and think about ways of solving
problems, of answering questions without mealways having to get them an answer.
And I think again, that buildslike a strong capacity for who I want
them to be as they moved throughthe world, because everything I will be
solved in a day or a monthor sometimes a decade, you know what

(44:43):
I'm saying. Thinking, And Ifeel like that's what's missing from a lot
of the conversations that we're having,is to be able to have nuanced critical
thinking. Yeah. Yeah, Andit just takes time. I mean,
it's time for them to think andto wrestle and you know that sort of
thing. So I really enjoy doingthat. I've had to learn to do

(45:05):
it. I mean. The easything is, like, especially when you
know the answer to something, isto just tell them what it is,
you know, that's quite supremacy culturetrait, sense of urgency. Yeah it
is got out. Well, yeah, you tell me, you tell me
right what you think. Then theycome back, I'm like, uh,

(45:29):
maybe that's one way to think aboutit. The other ways to think about
it, that's not how I thinkabout And then there's these certain things where
I feel like I want you totell me how you think about this thing
or this issue or problem from youknow, give me three different ways that
you could think about it, Giveme four different ways that you could think
about it. I don't want I'mless interested in what the actual landing point
answer is, and I'm more interestedin the multiple different ways you could think

(45:52):
about what this is, which isan essential part of being able to operate
in a healthy community is to acceptthat there's five particular different ways to get
to an answer, recognizing though thatthose five particular ways four ways have different
implications in terms of efficiency, collectivism, X, Y Z. All of

(46:13):
them might have different characteristics associated withthem, but none of them are like
absolutely wrong, right, um.Helping them think about stuff like that,
like I love to be like,yeah, well you know, okay,
give me give me you know,four or five ways that you could address
this, and do you talk aboutwhich one works best? As I'm listening
to you, do you understand thatyou are essentially helping your children to not

(46:37):
internalize white supremacy culture traits? Likedo you understand like because one right way
is also a white supremacy culture traitthat a lot of us don't even realize
that we perpetuate because it's why it'sit's the water not the shark, o
right. So, like, asyou have your kids do this, they're
learning basically to this is there,this is the way they're gonna think.

(46:58):
I think that it does. Andhow just be this binary of right or
wrong. It's it's a spectrum ofideas and we can figure out what collectively
is gonna work based on you know, like you said, the outcome you
realize you be doing that and it'sprobably not a world I mean kind of
sort of, but no, Iwouldn't have put this example into that language.
But I mean I think because ofmy work and like cooperatives in particular,

(47:23):
um, and you know, Ido a lot of stuff around organizational
leadership and anti racists in creating antiracist practices or within organizations. So I'm
aware of a lot of it.And I've been in a cooperative for you
know, in a a several differentkind of cooperative spaces, and you can't
believe in the one right as ifyou you're gonna be in a cooperative,

(47:46):
you're not cooperating. You you're notgonna you know, you're just not gonna
last long, you know what I'msaying. So uh yeah, So it's
a little bit of kind of justlike you know, I can see why
that way work works, I couldalso see why this way works, which
doesn't mean that you can't have aparticular answer or approach or a way that

(48:06):
you think works best. Yeah,but it's just that other ones can't work
too, and I can but doyeah, yeah, both. And that's
non dualistic thinking. And and youknow, I'm always asking my audience and
the people who follow me on socialmedia to try to break out of the
binary of one right way, youknow, of the because that's just it's

(48:29):
it's a box and it's a trap, and it really does keep us from
the radical reimagination of this world beinga more equitable place because when you're in
this box, there's no way howdo you that can only be one way
out right, they ain't doing ithere. I love this conversation. I
want to ask you before we wrapit up, what does the colonize your

(48:51):
parents teaming to you? I thinkabout it as being willing to let go
of parenting practices and approaches that aredoing more harm or have the potential to
do more harm than good to bothnot only children, but more like to

(49:15):
the relationship that children have to themany people who are in their village.
Right, So I even think about, you know, it might kind of
seem like selfish. I tend tothink a lot about like, not only
like what would a particular action orthing or decision or way of being,
how does that impact my child?I also think about how I impact my

(49:35):
relationship to them, And then,Bob, you're thinking about it in relational
terms, how it actually will ultimatelyimpact me too. So I'd be thinking
about basic that I want my childrento talk to me and come to me
if they have a problem, becauseI have wisdom that they don't have,
right, they know things. Iknow things, but I also have wisdom,
right, and so I'm always thinkingabout, like, if if I

(50:00):
keep doing this thing, does itdiminish our relationships such that I wouldn't have
an opportunity to learn to grow tounderstand them better in a way that I
can actually help them. So Ithink that when I think about it,
it's not just a break from apast in terms of, like, you
know, some of the things thatI experienced when I was growing up,

(50:22):
but it's also my ability to letgo of some of the things that I've
done that I do right, andthat I have done in the past that
don't work anymore because of the child'sdevelopment, or because we lived in a
different place, or they're just ata different stage in their life. And
so, you know, I thinkabout how my parenting was different when they

(50:47):
weren't in you know, formal schoolsettings, and how it's adjusted, how
I had to make adjustments and letgo of some things and adopt some new
things, you know, as Imoved to you know, as their school
age now. And I think thebiggest piece of it is really trying to
think about, you know, thewhite supremacy and the anti blackness and really

(51:07):
try to let go of those thingsand embrace things and adopt things that are
going to be affirming and are goingto bring joy and that are going to
bring connectedness and rootedness to black cultureand those sorts of things. That's kind
of how I think about I knowthat's a very broad No, I love
it, but yeah, yeah,no, you know, wrapping all that

(51:30):
is just basically egal death and selfawareness, you know, being able to
let go but also be aware ofyour own like conscious parenting really is just
self awareness. It is really justlike and I censor myself all the time.
So when you said it, withselfishes just like no one. Because
in order for our kids to begood, we have to be in order

(51:52):
for our kids to grow up witha true sense of self and with confidence,
we have to figure out how tocultivate that within us and project that
out to them and modeling for them. Right, So yeah, we have
to think about ourselves sometimes selfishly,in order to be good parents, in
order to model the things that wewant to model for them, and in

(52:13):
order for us to be able todeal with parenting in general, because parenting
is freaking hard. Yeah. Idon't know how anybody has more than one
kid. Yeah, well, Itell you it's the trip because you know,
my daughter one time, so Iplay guitar and for years I had
stopped playing and She remembers growing uphearing music in the basement. Me and

(52:35):
our homies would come together. Wewould play like every Friday night. So
she always heard the music in thebasement and she would come down there.
She's like little and everybody, youknow, she's like, you know,
to say good night. Basically Fridaynights. So I remember one time we
was waiting in a car for herto going to a school because I used
to drop her younger brother off.His school started thirty minutes earlier in her

(52:57):
So we were sitting in a carand one time we was in the car
and she was like, you know, um, you know, daddy,
you know why you don't play yourguitar no more? You know what I'm
saying. I was like, yeah, you know, life different. I'm
busy that. She was just like, you know, well, you know,
I was like, yeah, bythe time y'all go to bed,
you know, I gotta do thedishes. I got an x y Z.

(53:17):
She was like, well, mommycan't help him. Like Mommy,
do help. We're both doing it. So she was like oh. She
was like well, and then shesat she sat quiet for a little while,
and she was like, um,do you want to be rock star,
and I said, sometimes I dreamabout that, you know what I
mean? And she said, well, how are you gonna be a rock

(53:37):
star if you gonna practice? Iwas like, okay, and it's the
trip because that's what helped me pickmy guitar up. The very next week,
I got my guitar out of thecase and went to open But I
mean, she tried, she Ilove it though, like after you like,
how you gonna do that if you'renot doing that? And you know,

(54:00):
the scary thing about it is that, like I her, like Cadence
said, how she was talking tome was exactly how are you talking about?
She's just like, I want youto think about this for a second.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'mtrying. I'm not telling you the
player, but I'm telling you ain'tgonna be a rock star for you and
practice what you're gonna do, youknow what I mean? So you know,

(54:21):
I said, you know, sothat's the kind of stuff that I
think. And so why I'm mentioningthat is I think that like getting caught
up in you know, the workin you know, the career and everything,
and really you know, putting downyou know, something that brought me
a tremendous amount of joy. Shegot me to think about that, and

(54:43):
so I had to be like,Okay, why am I? How am
I letting all of these other thingslike squeeze out something that I have loved
and I used to have as akind of practice and routine in my life.
And she's the person who could seethat and reminded me about it and
encouraged me to jump back into itbecause if I cared about it, you
know, I mean now yes,and it to me, it's like she

(55:06):
was like thinking probably like this wasa strong memory of her childhood and she
wants to hear it again. AndI you know, when I'm listening to
you speak about how you and yourkids interact, it really makes me think
about that whole I'm not one ofyour little friend things and your kids are
your friends like y'all are you.You have developed a friendship with your children,
and that's why you can never convinceme that you not being your children

(55:31):
like you saying to your child,I'm not your friend to me is not
a good thing. I don't believethat. I feel like, of course
it's a different friendship. But inorder for our kids to know what friendship
really is. They have to experienceit and they have to model it.
And you're the fact that your childrenare able to be so open with you
and you them and you include themlike that is friendship. And they're going

(55:54):
to take that with them into everyfriend partnership, relationship that they're gonna have.
They're gonna take what you're sowing intothem into those relationships and it's going
to set the tone for the factthat they ain't gonna let nobody oppress them,
and they're gonna ask their friends questions, they're gonna challenge their friends,
and they're going to have people aroundthem that aren't just yes people, but

(56:16):
but you know, want them tothink critically. I think it's a beautiful
thing. Yeah, I appreciate thataffirmation. It don't always feel like that.
Of course, not hard, youknow, to be this type of
person. And you know, everyday is a struggle for me because I
wasn't raised that way. So I'malways like fighting against an urge inside of

(56:36):
me to do the stuff that Idon't want to do. It's a constant
fight because it's not a habit forme yet. But it sounds like you've
practiced and so it's more. Idon't know if it's a habit for you,
but I know for me it's notyet. I am still working on
it becoming a habit for me tobe non violent as a habit, I
have to fight against the urge becauseit's all I knew growing up, whereas

(57:00):
for some people they continuously, likeyou know, when I was only four.
So I still have a lot ofdecolonizing and healing and trauma work to
do. But I think as Icontinue this work, and as she gets
older, and as we start tohave a different relationship, it will be
easier for me. I don't wantto stay easier. I'm gonna say different.

(57:21):
I don't want to say easier becauseit might present a whole other case
when they the tweens teams. Butstill I would rather this and this difficulty
than the alternative, which is absolutelyYeah. I mean, that's that's why
you know, at you know,the top of the um, you know,
the segment when I was saying thatsometimes I feel like I've done too

(57:44):
much. Yeah, I mean,because you know, like I said it.
You know, even as they getolder and you know, their arguments
become more sophisticated, they become moredetermined, you know. I mean it
really is up being a test forme and especially in my ad could see
for them with other people where certainthings, I'm just like, you know,

(58:05):
bro, like I don't understand,sister, I don't understand, Like
how can I go to the schooland you know, advocate for you if
you don't give me the whole truthand if you're not explaining the xt y
z you know what I'm saying.So that's why I said at the top.
I was just like, sometimes Ifeel like I have done too much,
and there's oftentimes where people might belike you know, and even I

(58:25):
have to fight against this, youknow, like um, giving them the
kind of freedom and leverage it likeyou know, wealthy white kids or something
like that, getting I'd be like, nah, kids should have this.
You know what I'm saying. Ihave always check my health to always check
myself with that that I'm just like, you know, um, excuse my
language, but you know, likewas this the white ship that I was
doing right for them or something likethat? Really thinking about like Noah,

(58:47):
this is just what kids need togrow into healthy human beings. And so
you know that's something that I evenhave to rustle with because a lot of
some of how I interact growing upin the South, where I grew up
in South Carolina, black people,I spent so much time around black people
saying that some of the things thatthey would probably see me doing, now

(59:13):
you know what I mean, thatsort of thing. So, yeah,
it's in a doctrination too. Andso I actually just run about this on
Twitter about how the way the waythat we're talking about raising our children is
actually very ancestral and and it hasbeen before colonization, how Indigenous people raise
their children with autonomy, with agency, with collective village around them. A

(59:36):
lot like there's there's discipline, buta lot of it was natural consequences.
And what is now rebranded to gentleparenting by white people is really just ancestral
ways of parenting that was stripped fromIndigenous people through colonization and enslavement. So
we ain't new to this, butwe are true to this. Okay,
It's in our blood. And Ireject anything that says that this is some

(01:00:00):
white people's ship because white people arethe ones who stripped us from and this
ancestral practice of raising our children thisway. And also whiteness is inherently violent.
And that's why that's why we havethe type of parents that we've had
for so long, is a protectionagainst whiteness, and then it just morphed
into a cultural thing. So Iappreciate you saying that, because I know

(01:00:24):
it's a fear, but it's afear, like I'll talk about that all
day. We're not gonna you know. And that's why I don't use the
term gentile parenting either, use theconscious parenting because I believe that gentle parenting
that's some white people shit because it'srebranded parenting and to this word, and
I feel like with black folks,it turns them off, turns us a

(01:00:45):
lot of us off, because we'rejust like, the fuck is gentle?
What are we talking about here?We're really we're talking about being conscious of
ourselves. And that's why I callit conscious parenting. Being mindful of our
mood, our mindset, our socioeconomic status, and how that impact our
parenting and how we then project thatup to our kids. That's just consciousness.
It's all it is. Yeah,And I'm not comfortable with that.

(01:01:07):
I'm not comfortable with the term gentileparenting. I don't like it, and
I don't like it because it's origins, not because of what it is talking
about. The origins have been rebrandedand repackaged because of you know, and
then workshops sold off of how Indigenouspeople have been doing things since millennium.
Like, I don't like it anyway, because you're about to give me up

(01:01:28):
a tangent. Thank you so much, Dacoda for joining me today. How
can people find you on social media? Yeah, so I'm on social media.
I'm on Twitter at Dakota Irby andI'm on Instagram at Dakota Black.
The easiest way to gain access toall of my social media to learn what's
happening with my music, my communityactivism, my writing, my university work

(01:01:52):
is to visit my website, whichis www dot Dakota Irby dot com.
That's d ec Ot e au IRby dot com. Thanks so much,
You're welcome, and I'll make sureto link all that in the show notes.
Y'all, please don't check out thisbrother's work and buy his books.
And if you're listening to this andyou have an organization, go ahead and

(01:02:15):
hire him for a workshop and payhim. I'm not playing with y'all.
Thank you all. So much forjoining us for this conversation. Please make
sure we leave read and review andlet me know what you think in the
comments on social media. And untilnext time, keep it conscious by y'all.