July 24, 2025 • 28 mins
Here's what we're reading, recommending, and revisiting this week.
Catherine's library find is a Lucky Day pick called West with Giraffes by Lynda Rutledge. It's based-on-a-true-story historical fiction, which is right up her alley, and maybe yours too. Mentioned: The audiobook version, the history of the San Diego Zoo (toward which the giraffes of the title are traveling).
Terri's random recommendation is an audiobook enhanced by its narrator's performance: Life's Work by TV creator David Milch (of John from Cincinnati, NYPD Blue, Deadwood, and others), narrated by Michael Harney. Mentioned: Butler by Salena Zito, audiobooks narrated by Simon Jones of The Gilded Age.
In the archives, we checked in on an episode from 2019 on iffy etiquette.
Next week's lineup:
Until then (and anytime you're in need), the archives are available.
This episode was recorded before a live studio audience ... of dogs.
Catherine's library find is a Lucky Day pick called West with Giraffes by Lynda Rutledge. It's based-on-a-true-story historical fiction, which is right up her alley, and maybe yours too. Mentioned: The audiobook version, the history of the San Diego Zoo (toward which the giraffes of the title are traveling).
Terri's random recommendation is an audiobook enhanced by its narrator's performance: Life's Work by TV creator David Milch (of John from Cincinnati, NYPD Blue, Deadwood, and others), narrated by Michael Harney. Mentioned: Butler by Salena Zito, audiobooks narrated by Simon Jones of The Gilded Age.
In the archives, we checked in on an episode from 2019 on iffy etiquette.
Next week's lineup:
- Lost S3 E9, "Stranger in a Strange Land," on Tuesday, July 29
- The Gilded Age S3 E1, "What the Papers Say," on Wednesday, July 30
- Weekly roundup on Thursday, July 31
Until then (and anytime you're in need), the archives are available.
This episode was recorded before a live studio audience ... of dogs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Parenting Roundabout podcast. I'm Terry Morrow.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I'm Catherine Haileco.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Every Thursday, we're bringing you a library find, a pick
from our archives, and a parenting or pop culture tidbit
or two. Let's start with Catherine's library find of the.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Week, continuing with our recurring theme of everybody seems to
be reading this book at some point I will read it.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Which doesn't sound like a glowing recommendation, right, But I
read a book called West with Giraffes by Linda Rutledge.
This is one that people inside and outside the library
had told me to read, and it is a lucky
(00:52):
day book, which our library has and a lot of
libraries do, where it's like new and or popular items
that are you can't put them on hold, and it's
a short return schedule, so that the idea is that
when you walk into the library, there's a table of
these items and it's your lucky day you can yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So anyway, incredible true story of two giraffes.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yes, so it's a novel. It's a fictionalized story of
these two giraffes that came you know, don't know how
they were acquired we handwave over that part. But they
arrived in the United States on a boat that survived
hurricane on a ship, i should say, and then they
(01:45):
were transported over land to San Diego to the San Diego.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Zoo, which so this is present day ish, No, this.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Is in the let's say the thirties, like okay, yeah,
pre World War two, Okay, Like there.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Was a zoo in San Diego then, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I think it was fairly new. But also part of
the story is that there was a woman running it,
oh Ma, the zoo lady. She was referred to as
Belle bal Benchley. So, you know, I always enjoy historical fiction,
and this one. So it's the story of this young
(02:29):
like teenager he's like seventeen, I think he turns eighteen
during the course of the book, who has like left Oklahoma,
you know, dust Bowl times, and his parents have died.
He sort of ends up on the East Coast somewhere
working for his cousin. But you know, it's a it's
(02:51):
not a good situation, and he just kind of like
falls into being obsessed with these giraffes and ends up,
through reasons and circumstances, driving this sort of modified box
car across the country with these two giraffes in it.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And it's just it's told from his perspective as a
one hundred and five year old man recalling the story.
So you know this really happened in terms of these giraffes,
really did travel across country. I don't believe you know this,
(03:31):
this character was necessarily the one that drove them.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
What was the name of the character.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
His name is Woody. His full name is Woodrow Wilson
Nickel So Woody nickel Wite a name.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yes that sounds like a name from the Gilded Age.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yes, yes, so so. Yeah. I enjoyed it. I usually
like historical fiction. It took me a little bit of
time to get into it, I would say. And there's
a lot of like hinting, you know, giving dropping these
these little hints about what really happened back in Oklahoma
(04:09):
before he left, and then who is it that he's
telling this story to. And there's some little bits of
the present day of you know, him and the rest
home and people like okay, honey, let's get you back
to bed, you know situations, and he's like, I gotta
finish this. I'm one hundred years old. He's like, I'm
(04:32):
trying to write this down, leave me alone.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So uh so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Interesting, it's h Yeah, I don't believe. I think I
looked for an audiobook and did not find one, so.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I know, I don't know how that happens.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Somebody could have had some fun narrating that to the
Do we get the giraffe's point of view on anything
or it's just all no interacting with giraffes?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, I mean we get we we see the giraffes
behavior and we we can imply some infer some things
from that, but we don't get you know, the actual
pov of the of the giraffes.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, I'll just add because I have I am familiar
with the San Diego Zoo, having grown up in California,
southern California, but I did not know its history. It has.
It started in nineteen sixteen with a collection of animals
left over from the nineteen fifteen Panama California exposition. So
(05:36):
a pioneer in the concept of open air cageless exhibits
that we create natural animal habit habitats. I'm sure the
giraffes were happy about that. They wouldn't have been wanted
to be in cages. I'd have to be a very
total cage. So I did not know that. That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I kind of now I want to hear more about
the zoo Lady Bell.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, okay, well that sounds interesting. Grab it at your library.
Even though it might be in.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Short, it might be lucky today it's it's a couple
of years old, so it may be getting easier to find.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
There's a kindle edition, I see, yes, but no audiobook.
That is weird. I'm going to look on audible right now. Well,
we don't speak. Let's see. When's it West with Giraffes.
I'm always surprised when there's like a book that's not
on audible, because there seem to be so many, and
some of them seem so not like who cares about this?
(06:38):
But I guess it's part of the West with Giraffes.
It is on audible.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It is okay, it's just not I looked for it.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Operated by Danny Campbell. Okay, so there you go. I
can get it on a audiobook if you are too
lazy to read with your eyeballs, or your eyeballs are
not eyeballs. Don't cooperate as in my case. Yes, my
eyeballs enjoy being closed while I listen to stuff with
(07:06):
my ear holes. I do miss. I do miss reading
words that I can then go back and look at
easily without having to rewind to the place where it was,
so that it is a different experience. Yes, moving on
to my random recommendation, I have a book for a
random recommendation this week, and it's one in which the narration,
(07:33):
the work of the narrator really added to the experience.
The book I listened.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
To was.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Life's Work by David Milch. I have mentioned that before.
I mentioned that I was in the progress of reading it.
I have finally finished reading it, and I enjoyed it
very much. Let me find the name of the narrator.
The the recording started with I think the pro the introduction,
(08:03):
it was probably a prologue, was actually read by David Milch,
who has Alzheimer's and is fading, and you could hear
I mean, there's no way he could narrate himself. He's
obviously having a very hard time. But the narrator, I think,
did a really good job of sounding enough like him
that you felt like it was him. Reading it. It
(08:25):
was the same as a book I read a while
ago and talked about here by Judy Dench, where Judy
Dench read the prologu or whatever that part of the
book was. And then a younger person took over did
an incredible job of sounding like her, so that throughout
the experience was this is this person reading about their life.
(08:46):
And then you stop and you realize, no, wait, yeah,
this is a very good actress imitating that person. And
I'm going to find the name of the person who
narrated the Milch book because he did a very good job.
Sounded a little bit like Mark Marrin, but I think
Milch that had a milchiness to him voice that time.
(09:10):
I felt like it was like it was him, and
just very read the things, very in the spirit with
which they were written in a way that was meaningful.
I thought, let me just get that up so I
can because I want to credit this dude. Michael Harney
(09:32):
is the one who did the most of the narration.
And I just read a review of the book that
I agree with, which said it's less about and then
I did this show and here are some juicy details
about this show. And then I wrote that show, and
here are some juicy details about that show. It was
more about the creative process, about the how you know,
(09:54):
a little bit of the mechanics of television writing, and
a lot about his demons and the things he did
in his life. That that if you've watched John from Cincinnati,
which is my favorite one of his things, me and
a couple of other people, Yeah, the themes are there.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So I think he's best known probably for Deadwood and
YPD Blue. Yeah, he's one of his last things was Luck,
which was about horse racing and some horses died and
so I got shut down. But so he talks about
each of the shows he's done some but it's more
(10:41):
about this is what was going on in his life,
and this is how he came to do this particular show.
And so you get a lot of the backstage negotiations
with networks, You get a lot of the sort of
what it does to you to have this sort of
creative job. And you know, he had problems with gambling,
(11:04):
he had problems with substances and some mental health issues.
So he's a fascinating person. Channeled these problems in his
life into amazing art, and that's I was very interested
to hear about it. I was more interested to hear
about his life than I was about Oh and then
(11:25):
David Carusa did this, so it was good. I would
recommend it, especially for anybody who's in you know, has
been in creative fields in their life, and anybody who's
enjoyed the art that this man has made, and also
anybody who just really enjoys a well read audio. The
reading is very, very good. It started out I was like, oh,
(11:46):
is he just trying to do an invitation? But he
just as it went through, I just my brain completely
accepted that this was from reading about just the way
he did the vocal part of it. Just very impressive.
Good book, very highly recommended. Interesting, interesting individual, well written book,
(12:08):
well done, narration, and worth immersing oneself in, especially if
you have one of his properties that you are particularly
passionate about. Yeah, you're not going to get behind the
scenes extravaganza on it, but you will have some insight
as to how it came to be and what some
of the experiences of the people involved with it were.
(12:32):
So my next book that I am moving on to
is actually currently as we speak, the number one number
one on the New York Times Nonfiction bestseller list, which
is Butler by Selena Zito. I will not be talking
about it on this podcast because we don't talk about politics,
but so far I'm in it a little bit. And
(12:52):
if you think it was this is the sort of
thing you will like, you will like it. It's interesting,
it's interesting. I've liked her, she wrote a book. Her
previous book, written with Brad Todd, Who's a Polster, is
The Great Revolt, and I enjoyed reading that too, So
(13:12):
I've been kind of interested in her since then and
interested in this book, and apparently lots of other people
are too. But possibly the less said about the subject
matter the better. So all right, if that intrigues you,
go look it up and then you will either either
be interested or mad at me.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Is that an iffy etiquette question? Do I recommend this book?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
That is an iff He had a quick question. How
does one recommend a book without saying, oh, by the way,
it's about something that will make half of the people
listening to this head explodes. So it is not in
fact about a butler and the guilded Age, but.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
That's going back to the Gilded Age and the audiobook
narration the one who played I think I've talked about
this before, but the the one who plays the butler
on the Van Ryan side. Yeah one, I'm ninety nine
percent short. Narrated an audiobook that I listened to with
(14:12):
my son.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Oh, like he would be very good.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Years and years ago. Like I can't remember the name
of the book. It has something to do with a lion.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Oh, I can see that, and yeah, have you looked
up his name? And audio bade me to like figure
that out. What is the actor's name? Let's i'll find out,
Simon Simon Jones.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I wonder if he do. They give you audio books in.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Audiobooks narrated by Simon Jones. Okay, there's ninety five results.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Wow. Then I guess he was the.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
One pass on the uh pasting this into the script.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Okay, oh, lion boy. There it is lion boy.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay. Yeah, see look at that.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I still hear. I mean, it's amazing, like it was
years for sure, And you know it's amazing that you
can recognize a person's voice. Yeah at that from that
long ago.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Its a good voice. Now he has a.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Distinctive yes, So anyway, we should move on.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Anyway, moving on What do we have from the archive
this week?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yes, we are. We have an episode from twenty nineteen
and when we were talking about social interactions and if
the etiquette. You know, what have we taught our kids?
What have we failed to teach our kids?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Now?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
All of that? Yikes? And I feel a little bit
of this right now because my my adult child is
living with her boyfriend's family.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
And yeah, you know, there's lots of room for like,
oh did I did I not tell you not to
do this or that?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Or you know, I mean I feel that she. I
do hope that she. I mean I don't. It's not
something I worry about constantly, but it's still like oh
oh no.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Like yeah, yeah, oh I would be worried about that too, absolutely.
And also I would be judging if somebody else's child
did not do those things. So your fears are well
found me, right right, Yeah, it's your mother never taught
her that. Ever, I would totally be blaming the mom.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I'm not the kid, oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, that's why it's not a dad.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
No, No, it's always the mom.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah. It's hard to know what's going to be important,
and when you have kids who won't necessarily absorb information.
What do you need to make a big deal about?
And then when you make a big deal about it,
then they make a big deal about it when it's
there's many points of etiquette that are supposed to be subtle. Yes, yes,
(17:19):
but you have to know them, so to get the
kids to know them, you have to be not subtle.
But then they are not subtle, and then you look
stupid either way. Regardless of what happens, mom looks bad.
Of course, nobody ever blames the kid. Where are the parents?
(17:41):
Why didn't their mother tell them? So it's like it's
it's hard to know what to make a big deal
about and what to just hope they're never in a
situation where.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
They have right and things change like you.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Probably many things that you know weren't you know, they
just change over time, and you know, are you You
can't flash forward like you're on loss figure it out?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
You can flash back though, and relive the time you
did the wrong thing over and over again.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
That is true.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Somebody, please hit me in the head with the baseball
fan so I can go someplace else.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Now, let me give me, as he says, give me
another chance.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, I feel like this is a particularly treacherous time
because there are a lot of different people expecting a
lot of different things. And I live in fear of
one of my kids, both of whom work in jobs
where they interact with the public, one of my kids
(19:00):
calling somebody sir who does not consider themselves a sir
or ma'am. Likewise, I'm constantly worried about one of them
ending up splashed across social media as this horrible person
who called me the wrong thing. And I don't know
how to tell them not to do that. What do
(19:21):
we because because there isn't a gender, yeah, there's there's
not a neutral term of respect. And for many many people,
calling them mam or sir would be a positive thing.
People like that, it's respectful. But for the wrong person,
(19:44):
it's going to be a disaster. So I can't tell
them not to do it. I can't tell them to
do it. I can't say, please, ask to see their
driver's license and see what gender they have put down
and then call them by that. You know, it's just like,
how do you how do you navigate that? That's a
that's a big if the etiquette issue at the moment, Yeah,
(20:07):
at least if you're if your kids are going to
be interacting with the general public and people they don't
know and just trying to get through a work day.
Here are your fries individual.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Right insert respectful title here exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, I'll put those in your card for you person.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Right, and then you just like, like, you just leave
it out, and then that doesn't seem right.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, and then the people who expect to hear it
will be mad at you. Right, So you're just kind
of screwed no matter what.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, you just they're the age of your mother.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
You can probably go with that's right. If it's because
younger people don't don't want to be man or don't
want to be mam, I mean maybe sir, they don't
care about But yeah, lady and dude, do we call
them bro?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Let's just do bro?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Bro? Yeah, bruh you but don't but don't call the
older guy brou because they they will complain to your manager.
I just I feel like the only answer to this
is to get them out of public facing jobs. Well,
this is just too complicated. No more, No more fast
(21:30):
food and parking lot work for you, right, I you know,
maybe there'll be a simpler time coming up, but right
now it's too fraud. Just home. Yeah, we'll sign we'll
sign you up for you know, unemployment. It'll be fine,
all right, Ay, yeah, yeah, I do. You know. One
(21:53):
of the things that was an if the etiquette issue
for me and I might have mentioned this the last
time we talked about it is I grew up in California,
where I don't think that we have, at least in
the circles, in the Protestant circles I was running in.
I don't think we have the whole death structure they
have here in Italian New Jersey circles, which is like
(22:18):
a visitation here, then another visitation, then a third visitation,
and then everybody goes to the cemetery, and then we
bury the person, and then we have a party. There's
a lot. I think we just had a church in California.
I think we just had a church service and a burial,
which not everybody went to. I think that's all there was.
I could be wrong, and not a lot of people
I knew died when I was young, so whereas here.
(22:43):
I mean, my son is really good at wakes. That
is something he has learned. He has been to enough
wakes that he knows what you say, sorry for your loss,
and you know, so I'm always feeling like I'm doing
the wrong thing, Like which one are we supposed to
go to? Which one of these things that were supposed
to go to? Do we go to the other thing
as well? Where?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Which really totally depends on how you're connected to that person.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Huh yeah, I mean we recently had somebody passed away
in my husband's family. Well it's always my husband's family
because I have no family here, but well they're my
family as well. But anyway, is somebody that I knew
and that wesed went to his house many times and
he and his wife were always very kind to me,
but we hadn't seen in a long time. And there
(23:30):
was like three visitations, like I said, three visitations a
burial and one assumes a party afterwards. And I was like,
do we go which one of these things do we
go to? Should we go to the burial, should we
go to the wake? Should we go? What do we go?
And he was like trying to Hamminy and huying too,
and you know, do we wear a suit? Do we wear?
What do you wear? And when his like when his
(23:55):
parents were alive. They drove this. We're going, yess that
this is what we're doing. Please come pick us up
or whatever. But now that it's just us, I mean,
his brother and sister came from Pennsylvania and they went
to one. His sister came from New York from one
and they went so they went to the same one,
and then we went to a different one. And then
I was thinking we were going to go to the
(24:16):
funeral the next day, but he decided not to. And
it's like it's this whole I don't want to offend anybody, right,
And then you go there and you're just you don't
really know anybody, and you have conversation with a couple
of people you do, and then you're just sitting there.
How long do we sit here? Do we sit here
for the whole time? Can we leave early? Where's the signing?
You got to sign in? Where's the signing?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Let's let everyone know we were here for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Like there's I feel like there's an etiquette that I
don't know. And then I'm always going to do something
and people are gonna look at me like what are
you doing?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Right? Yeah, that's that's a tough one for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, it's I guess different things done do get done
different ways in different cultures, in different parts of the
country and.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
In different families.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
It yeah, and I don't know, yes, a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Right, And then will it change by the next time,
you know, depending on what exactly that person is.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's you know, there was a very
small amount of people we knew, and then just a
lot of other people. And then you want to talk
to the person that you know, but everybody else does too,
So it's like you have to take your turn and
walk away. Yeah, and goes in someplace just look at
all these people and go do you know these people?
(25:36):
The people?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Right? Hmmm, Well it's a challenge, just yeah, like so
many things.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah yeah, and like there seems to be a lot
of a lot of etiquette that used to be a
thing that's not anymore, right, and if you expect it,
are you a fuddy duddy or are you training your
children to be good people?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I don't know good My children would say, I'm I'm
a fuddy duddy.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You don't do that anymore man, right, Yeah, And then
that just makes like, wait a minute, did I become
the old person? Now? Like you know, Oh, we don't
do that.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yes, we became the old person, that is for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
But that doesn't mean we can't still do the wrong thing,
say the wrong thing, step in it.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
But training your kids to not is difficult because you
don't even know what the situation. We don't even know
what the situations are anymore. Not only do you not
know what the etiquette is, we don't know what the
situations are.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, and we there's no way to predict either.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So just teach them to say thank you if somebody
gives them a ride someplace, if somebody gives them a meal,
if somebody does something nice of them. Thank you is
gender neutral. You don't have to worry about it. You
can just say, you know, generally people like to hear it. Yes,
(27:11):
So that's one piece of etiquette we can pass down
to the kids, even if you're not sure whether it's
right to say or not.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You know, I say thank you and please.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Please also please is good.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yes, these are things that we we start with when
they're tiny babies.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Have you come upon in your archive searches an etiquette
book for children?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Hmmm? In my library?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Work in your library?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, I feel like I have and okay, well I'm
not sure I found a good one.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I would be super interested to find out what children's
books writers today feel is important etiqutte.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, I'll be on the lookout and report back.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Thank you for listening. You can find all our episodes
on Spreaker, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get
your podcasts. You can find recaps, links, and an opportunity
to comment on our website at parentingroundabout dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
You can also talk to us on our Facebook page,
on Instagram or on Twitter, where you'll find us at
roundabout Chat. And please visit our Amazon shop at Amazon
dot com, slash shop slash mamitude but you can find
links to a lot of the things we've talked about
over the years.
Welcome to the Parenting Roundabout podcast. I'm Terry Morrow.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I'm Catherine Haileco.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Every Thursday, we're bringing you a library find, a pick
from our archives, and a parenting or pop culture tidbit
or two. Let's start with Catherine's library find of the.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Week, continuing with our recurring theme of everybody seems to
be reading this book at some point I will read it.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Which doesn't sound like a glowing recommendation, right, But I
read a book called West with Giraffes by Linda Rutledge.
This is one that people inside and outside the library
had told me to read, and it is a lucky
(00:52):
day book, which our library has and a lot of
libraries do, where it's like new and or popular items
that are you can't put them on hold, and it's
a short return schedule, so that the idea is that
when you walk into the library, there's a table of
these items and it's your lucky day you can yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So anyway, incredible true story of two giraffes.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yes, so it's a novel. It's a fictionalized story of
these two giraffes that came you know, don't know how
they were acquired we handwave over that part. But they
arrived in the United States on a boat that survived
hurricane on a ship, i should say, and then they
(01:45):
were transported over land to San Diego to the San Diego.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Zoo, which so this is present day ish, No, this.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Is in the let's say the thirties, like okay, yeah,
pre World War two, Okay, Like there.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Was a zoo in San Diego then, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I think it was fairly new. But also part of
the story is that there was a woman running it,
oh Ma, the zoo lady. She was referred to as
Belle bal Benchley. So, you know, I always enjoy historical fiction,
and this one. So it's the story of this young
(02:29):
like teenager he's like seventeen, I think he turns eighteen
during the course of the book, who has like left Oklahoma,
you know, dust Bowl times, and his parents have died.
He sort of ends up on the East Coast somewhere
working for his cousin. But you know, it's a it's
(02:51):
not a good situation, and he just kind of like
falls into being obsessed with these giraffes and ends up,
through reasons and circumstances, driving this sort of modified box
car across the country with these two giraffes in it.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And it's just it's told from his perspective as a
one hundred and five year old man recalling the story.
So you know this really happened in terms of these giraffes,
really did travel across country. I don't believe you know this,
(03:31):
this character was necessarily the one that drove them.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
What was the name of the character.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
His name is Woody. His full name is Woodrow Wilson
Nickel So Woody nickel Wite a name.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yes that sounds like a name from the Gilded Age.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yes, yes, so so. Yeah. I enjoyed it. I usually
like historical fiction. It took me a little bit of
time to get into it, I would say. And there's
a lot of like hinting, you know, giving dropping these
these little hints about what really happened back in Oklahoma
(04:09):
before he left, and then who is it that he's
telling this story to. And there's some little bits of
the present day of you know, him and the rest
home and people like okay, honey, let's get you back
to bed, you know situations, and he's like, I gotta
finish this. I'm one hundred years old. He's like, I'm
(04:32):
trying to write this down, leave me alone.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So uh so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Interesting, it's h Yeah, I don't believe. I think I
looked for an audiobook and did not find one, so.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I know, I don't know how that happens.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Somebody could have had some fun narrating that to the
Do we get the giraffe's point of view on anything
or it's just all no interacting with giraffes?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, I mean we get we we see the giraffes
behavior and we we can imply some infer some things
from that, but we don't get you know, the actual
pov of the of the giraffes.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, I'll just add because I have I am familiar
with the San Diego Zoo, having grown up in California,
southern California, but I did not know its history. It has.
It started in nineteen sixteen with a collection of animals
left over from the nineteen fifteen Panama California exposition. So
(05:36):
a pioneer in the concept of open air cageless exhibits
that we create natural animal habit habitats. I'm sure the
giraffes were happy about that. They wouldn't have been wanted
to be in cages. I'd have to be a very
total cage. So I did not know that. That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I kind of now I want to hear more about
the zoo Lady Bell.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah, okay, well that sounds interesting. Grab it at your library.
Even though it might be in.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Short, it might be lucky today it's it's a couple
of years old, so it may be getting easier to find.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
There's a kindle edition, I see, yes, but no audiobook.
That is weird. I'm going to look on audible right now. Well,
we don't speak. Let's see. When's it West with Giraffes.
I'm always surprised when there's like a book that's not
on audible, because there seem to be so many, and
some of them seem so not like who cares about this?
(06:38):
But I guess it's part of the West with Giraffes.
It is on audible.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It is okay, it's just not I looked for it.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Operated by Danny Campbell. Okay, so there you go. I
can get it on a audiobook if you are too
lazy to read with your eyeballs, or your eyeballs are
not eyeballs. Don't cooperate as in my case. Yes, my
eyeballs enjoy being closed while I listen to stuff with
(07:06):
my ear holes. I do miss. I do miss reading
words that I can then go back and look at
easily without having to rewind to the place where it was,
so that it is a different experience. Yes, moving on
to my random recommendation, I have a book for a
random recommendation this week, and it's one in which the narration,
(07:33):
the work of the narrator really added to the experience.
The book I listened.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
To was.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Life's Work by David Milch. I have mentioned that before.
I mentioned that I was in the progress of reading it.
I have finally finished reading it, and I enjoyed it
very much. Let me find the name of the narrator.
The the recording started with I think the pro the introduction,
(08:03):
it was probably a prologue, was actually read by David Milch,
who has Alzheimer's and is fading, and you could hear
I mean, there's no way he could narrate himself. He's
obviously having a very hard time. But the narrator, I think,
did a really good job of sounding enough like him
that you felt like it was him. Reading it. It
(08:25):
was the same as a book I read a while
ago and talked about here by Judy Dench, where Judy
Dench read the prologu or whatever that part of the
book was. And then a younger person took over did
an incredible job of sounding like her, so that throughout
the experience was this is this person reading about their life.
(08:46):
And then you stop and you realize, no, wait, yeah,
this is a very good actress imitating that person. And
I'm going to find the name of the person who
narrated the Milch book because he did a very good job.
Sounded a little bit like Mark Marrin, but I think
Milch that had a milchiness to him voice that time.
(09:10):
I felt like it was like it was him, and
just very read the things, very in the spirit with
which they were written in a way that was meaningful.
I thought, let me just get that up so I
can because I want to credit this dude. Michael Harney
(09:32):
is the one who did the most of the narration.
And I just read a review of the book that
I agree with, which said it's less about and then
I did this show and here are some juicy details
about this show. And then I wrote that show, and
here are some juicy details about that show. It was
more about the creative process, about the how you know,
(09:54):
a little bit of the mechanics of television writing, and
a lot about his demons and the things he did
in his life. That that if you've watched John from Cincinnati,
which is my favorite one of his things, me and
a couple of other people, Yeah, the themes are there.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So I think he's best known probably for Deadwood and
YPD Blue. Yeah, he's one of his last things was Luck,
which was about horse racing and some horses died and
so I got shut down. But so he talks about
each of the shows he's done some but it's more
(10:41):
about this is what was going on in his life,
and this is how he came to do this particular show.
And so you get a lot of the backstage negotiations
with networks, You get a lot of the sort of
what it does to you to have this sort of
creative job. And you know, he had problems with gambling,
(11:04):
he had problems with substances and some mental health issues.
So he's a fascinating person. Channeled these problems in his
life into amazing art, and that's I was very interested
to hear about it. I was more interested to hear
about his life than I was about Oh and then
(11:25):
David Carusa did this, so it was good. I would
recommend it, especially for anybody who's in you know, has
been in creative fields in their life, and anybody who's
enjoyed the art that this man has made, and also
anybody who just really enjoys a well read audio. The
reading is very, very good. It started out I was like, oh,
(11:46):
is he just trying to do an invitation? But he
just as it went through, I just my brain completely
accepted that this was from reading about just the way
he did the vocal part of it. Just very impressive.
Good book, very highly recommended. Interesting, interesting individual, well written book,
(12:08):
well done, narration, and worth immersing oneself in, especially if
you have one of his properties that you are particularly
passionate about. Yeah, you're not going to get behind the
scenes extravaganza on it, but you will have some insight
as to how it came to be and what some
of the experiences of the people involved with it were.
(12:32):
So my next book that I am moving on to
is actually currently as we speak, the number one number
one on the New York Times Nonfiction bestseller list, which
is Butler by Selena Zito. I will not be talking
about it on this podcast because we don't talk about politics,
but so far I'm in it a little bit. And
(12:52):
if you think it was this is the sort of
thing you will like, you will like it. It's interesting,
it's interesting. I've liked her, she wrote a book. Her
previous book, written with Brad Todd, Who's a Polster, is
The Great Revolt, and I enjoyed reading that too, So
(13:12):
I've been kind of interested in her since then and
interested in this book, and apparently lots of other people
are too. But possibly the less said about the subject
matter the better. So all right, if that intrigues you,
go look it up and then you will either either
be interested or mad at me.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Is that an iffy etiquette question? Do I recommend this book?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
That is an iff He had a quick question. How
does one recommend a book without saying, oh, by the way,
it's about something that will make half of the people
listening to this head explodes. So it is not in
fact about a butler and the guilded Age, but.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
That's going back to the Gilded Age and the audiobook
narration the one who played I think I've talked about
this before, but the the one who plays the butler
on the Van Ryan side. Yeah one, I'm ninety nine
percent short. Narrated an audiobook that I listened to with
(14:12):
my son.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Oh, like he would be very good.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Years and years ago. Like I can't remember the name
of the book. It has something to do with a lion.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Oh, I can see that, and yeah, have you looked
up his name? And audio bade me to like figure
that out. What is the actor's name? Let's i'll find out,
Simon Simon Jones.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I wonder if he do. They give you audio books in.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Audiobooks narrated by Simon Jones. Okay, there's ninety five results.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Wow. Then I guess he was the.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
One pass on the uh pasting this into the script.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Okay, oh, lion boy. There it is lion boy.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay. Yeah, see look at that.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I still hear. I mean, it's amazing, like it was
years for sure, And you know it's amazing that you
can recognize a person's voice. Yeah at that from that
long ago.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Its a good voice. Now he has a.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Distinctive yes, So anyway, we should move on.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Anyway, moving on What do we have from the archive
this week?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yes, we are. We have an episode from twenty nineteen
and when we were talking about social interactions and if
the etiquette. You know, what have we taught our kids?
What have we failed to teach our kids?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Now?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
All of that? Yikes? And I feel a little bit
of this right now because my my adult child is
living with her boyfriend's family.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
And yeah, you know, there's lots of room for like,
oh did I did I not tell you not to
do this or that?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Or you know, I mean I feel that she. I
do hope that she. I mean I don't. It's not
something I worry about constantly, but it's still like oh
oh no.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Like yeah, yeah, oh I would be worried about that too, absolutely.
And also I would be judging if somebody else's child
did not do those things. So your fears are well
found me, right right, Yeah, it's your mother never taught
her that. Ever, I would totally be blaming the mom.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I'm not the kid, oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, that's why it's not a dad.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
No, No, it's always the mom.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah. It's hard to know what's going to be important,
and when you have kids who won't necessarily absorb information.
What do you need to make a big deal about?
And then when you make a big deal about it,
then they make a big deal about it when it's
there's many points of etiquette that are supposed to be subtle. Yes, yes,
(17:19):
but you have to know them, so to get the
kids to know them, you have to be not subtle.
But then they are not subtle, and then you look
stupid either way. Regardless of what happens, mom looks bad.
Of course, nobody ever blames the kid. Where are the parents?
(17:41):
Why didn't their mother tell them? So it's like it's
it's hard to know what to make a big deal
about and what to just hope they're never in a
situation where.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
They have right and things change like you.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Probably many things that you know weren't you know, they
just change over time, and you know, are you You
can't flash forward like you're on loss figure it out?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
You can flash back though, and relive the time you
did the wrong thing over and over again.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
That is true.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Somebody, please hit me in the head with the baseball
fan so I can go someplace else.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Now, let me give me, as he says, give me
another chance.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, I feel like this is a particularly treacherous time
because there are a lot of different people expecting a
lot of different things. And I live in fear of
one of my kids, both of whom work in jobs
where they interact with the public, one of my kids
(19:00):
calling somebody sir who does not consider themselves a sir
or ma'am. Likewise, I'm constantly worried about one of them
ending up splashed across social media as this horrible person
who called me the wrong thing. And I don't know
how to tell them not to do that. What do
(19:21):
we because because there isn't a gender, yeah, there's there's
not a neutral term of respect. And for many many people,
calling them mam or sir would be a positive thing.
People like that, it's respectful. But for the wrong person,
(19:44):
it's going to be a disaster. So I can't tell
them not to do it. I can't tell them to
do it. I can't say, please, ask to see their
driver's license and see what gender they have put down
and then call them by that. You know, it's just like,
how do you how do you navigate that? That's a
that's a big if the etiquette issue at the moment, Yeah,
(20:07):
at least if you're if your kids are going to
be interacting with the general public and people they don't
know and just trying to get through a work day.
Here are your fries individual.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Right insert respectful title here exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, I'll put those in your card for you person.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Right, and then you just like, like, you just leave
it out, and then that doesn't seem right.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, and then the people who expect to hear it
will be mad at you. Right, So you're just kind
of screwed no matter what.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, you just they're the age of your mother.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
You can probably go with that's right. If it's because
younger people don't don't want to be man or don't
want to be mam, I mean maybe sir, they don't
care about But yeah, lady and dude, do we call
them bro?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Let's just do bro?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Bro? Yeah, bruh you but don't but don't call the
older guy brou because they they will complain to your manager.
I just I feel like the only answer to this
is to get them out of public facing jobs. Well,
this is just too complicated. No more, No more fast
(21:30):
food and parking lot work for you, right, I you know,
maybe there'll be a simpler time coming up, but right
now it's too fraud. Just home. Yeah, we'll sign we'll
sign you up for you know, unemployment. It'll be fine,
all right, Ay, yeah, yeah, I do. You know. One
(21:53):
of the things that was an if the etiquette issue
for me and I might have mentioned this the last
time we talked about it is I grew up in California,
where I don't think that we have, at least in
the circles, in the Protestant circles I was running in.
I don't think we have the whole death structure they
have here in Italian New Jersey circles, which is like
(22:18):
a visitation here, then another visitation, then a third visitation,
and then everybody goes to the cemetery, and then we
bury the person, and then we have a party. There's
a lot. I think we just had a church in California.
I think we just had a church service and a burial,
which not everybody went to. I think that's all there was.
I could be wrong, and not a lot of people
I knew died when I was young, so whereas here.
(22:43):
I mean, my son is really good at wakes. That
is something he has learned. He has been to enough
wakes that he knows what you say, sorry for your loss,
and you know, so I'm always feeling like I'm doing
the wrong thing, Like which one are we supposed to
go to? Which one of these things that were supposed
to go to? Do we go to the other thing
as well? Where?
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Which really totally depends on how you're connected to that person.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Huh yeah, I mean we recently had somebody passed away
in my husband's family. Well it's always my husband's family
because I have no family here, but well they're my
family as well. But anyway, is somebody that I knew
and that wesed went to his house many times and
he and his wife were always very kind to me,
but we hadn't seen in a long time. And there
(23:30):
was like three visitations, like I said, three visitations a
burial and one assumes a party afterwards. And I was like,
do we go which one of these things do we
go to? Should we go to the burial, should we
go to the wake? Should we go? What do we go?
And he was like trying to Hamminy and huying too,
and you know, do we wear a suit? Do we wear?
What do you wear? And when his like when his
(23:55):
parents were alive. They drove this. We're going, yess that
this is what we're doing. Please come pick us up
or whatever. But now that it's just us, I mean,
his brother and sister came from Pennsylvania and they went
to one. His sister came from New York from one
and they went so they went to the same one,
and then we went to a different one. And then
I was thinking we were going to go to the
(24:16):
funeral the next day, but he decided not to. And
it's like it's this whole I don't want to offend anybody, right,
And then you go there and you're just you don't
really know anybody, and you have conversation with a couple
of people you do, and then you're just sitting there.
How long do we sit here? Do we sit here
for the whole time? Can we leave early? Where's the signing?
You got to sign in? Where's the signing?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Let's let everyone know we were here for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Like there's I feel like there's an etiquette that I
don't know. And then I'm always going to do something
and people are gonna look at me like what are
you doing?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Right? Yeah, that's that's a tough one for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, it's I guess different things done do get done
different ways in different cultures, in different parts of the
country and.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
In different families.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
It yeah, and I don't know, yes, a lot.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Right, And then will it change by the next time,
you know, depending on what exactly that person is.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's you know, there was a very
small amount of people we knew, and then just a
lot of other people. And then you want to talk
to the person that you know, but everybody else does too,
So it's like you have to take your turn and
walk away. Yeah, and goes in someplace just look at
all these people and go do you know these people?
(25:36):
The people?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Right? Hmmm, Well it's a challenge, just yeah, like so
many things.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah yeah, and like there seems to be a lot
of a lot of etiquette that used to be a
thing that's not anymore, right, and if you expect it,
are you a fuddy duddy or are you training your
children to be good people?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I don't know good My children would say, I'm I'm
a fuddy duddy.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You don't do that anymore man, right, Yeah, And then
that just makes like, wait a minute, did I become
the old person? Now? Like you know, Oh, we don't
do that.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yes, we became the old person, that is for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
But that doesn't mean we can't still do the wrong thing,
say the wrong thing, step in it.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
But training your kids to not is difficult because you
don't even know what the situation. We don't even know
what the situations are anymore. Not only do you not
know what the etiquette is, we don't know what the
situations are.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, and we there's no way to predict either.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So just teach them to say thank you if somebody
gives them a ride someplace, if somebody gives them a meal,
if somebody does something nice of them. Thank you is
gender neutral. You don't have to worry about it. You
can just say, you know, generally people like to hear it. Yes,
(27:11):
So that's one piece of etiquette we can pass down
to the kids, even if you're not sure whether it's
right to say or not.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You know, I say thank you and please.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Please also please is good.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yes, these are things that we we start with when
they're tiny babies.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Have you come upon in your archive searches an etiquette
book for children?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Hmmm? In my library?
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Work in your library?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, I feel like I have and okay, well I'm
not sure I found a good one.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I would be super interested to find out what children's
books writers today feel is important etiqutte.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, I'll be on the lookout and report back.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Thank you for listening. You can find all our episodes
on Spreaker, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get
your podcasts. You can find recaps, links, and an opportunity
to comment on our website at parentingroundabout dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
You can also talk to us on our Facebook page,
on Instagram or on Twitter, where you'll find us at
roundabout Chat. And please visit our Amazon shop at Amazon
dot com, slash shop slash mamitude but you can find
links to a lot of the things we've talked about
over the years.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com