August 1, 2025 • 58 mins
Professor Ziyad Hijazi of SIdra Medical joins Pediheart this week to celebrate Pediheart's 350th milestone and discuss his life and times from his early days in Jordan to the absolute heights of interventional cardiology. How did he meet Dr. Kurt Amplatz and become involved in the development of Amplatzer devices? Who were some of his mentors and what does he think about being a mentor? How did he come up with the idea for the PICS interventional course and how has he managed to do this consistently for over 20 years? What does he believe is important when thinking about a work/life balance? This is a rare opportunity to learn from someone who has seen and done it all in every corner of the world in pediatric cardiology.
For those interested, this is the link to the PICS course in late August, 2025 in Chicago:
https://www.picsymposium.com/home.html
For those interested, this is the link to the PICS course in late August, 2025 in Chicago:
https://www.picsymposium.com/home.html
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to Pdhart Pediatric Cardiology Today. My name is doctor
Robert Cass and I'm the host of this podcast. I
am Professor of Pediatrics at the Icon School of Medicine
at Mount Sinai, where I am the co director of
the Children's Heart Center as well as the chief of
Pediatric Cardiology. Thank you for joining me for this milestone
three hundred and fiftieth episode of Pdhart. I can't believe
(00:37):
we're three hundred and fifty episodes. This show would be
nothing without you, the listener, and so I want to
thank you very much for coming with me on this
journey through our literature, as well as the people of
Pediatric cardiovascer Medicine. Thank you so very much. I hope
all enjoyed last week's episode, in which I replayed a
conversation I had with experts on the topic of ctculum
(00:58):
energic polymorphic tricular takic cardia. For those of you who
are interested in this important topic, i'd recommend you take
to listen to last week's repeat episode this week, to
celebrate the three hundred and fiftieth episode of Pedhart Pediatric Cardiology. Today,
we're going to be joined by the Master of Interventional
Cardiology Doctor Ziad Hijazi. Doctor Hijazi is well known throughout
(01:19):
our community. He is presently Professor of Pediatrics and Medicine,
Senior Attending Cardiologist and Medical Director of the International Medical
Affairs Branch of Sidra Medicine in Doha Kutter. Doctor Hijazi
is also past President of the Society of Cardiac Angiography
and Interventions and President of the Pediatric and Congenital Interventional
(01:40):
CARDIOVASCAR Society or PIX Society, which he co started. He
is a graduate of Jordan University School of Medicine in
nineteen eighty two and completed MPH training at the Yale
University School of Medicine in nineteen eighty six. Following early
training in Jordan, he performed his residency in pediatrics at
YU Yale, followed by cardiology and interventional cardiology also at Yale.
(02:05):
He has won many major interventional and cardiology awards, too
numerous to mention here, and he's on the editorial boards
of many important interventional cardiology journals. His contributions to cardiology
and particularly interventional cardiology are massive, with some of the
more important ones being all of the varied amplatzer devices,
(02:25):
which have improved the lives of literally millions of children
and adults. He also has played a central role in
trans catheter valve techniques and device development, and has been
particularly active in the development, most recently of the so
called Venus P valve. He is also the founder and
co course director of the Picks Interventional Course, which has
(02:46):
rapidly become the favorite of many in the field of
interventional cardiology because of the wonderful live case presentations as
well as rich lectures and debates. Doctor Hijazi is known
in just about every corner of the globe, as he
has likely proctored nearly every laboratory in the world on
something like an Amplatz or ASD device, Venus P valve
(03:07):
or amplatz or PDA device. Aside from all of that,
he is a wonderfully warm and beloved figure in our
field who goes out of his way for everyone all
the time. Rather than continue to go on and on,
because certainly I could for at least twenty to thirty minutes,
I think at this time we'll move straight on to
our conversation that I had with him last week about
(03:29):
his life in times and so here we go. I'm
here now with doctor Zietta Jossey, who's kind enough to
speak with us all the way from Doha today. Z,
such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Thanks a lot for Rob. It's a pleasure to be
with you. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It's my pleasure, so Z, I want to thank you
for joining us here on the three hundred and fiftieth
episode of the podcast. I know everybody's going to be
very excited when I announced who's going to be our guest.
You know, I wanted to really just learn a little
bit about the man we all know, the crazy guy
who's all over the world doing millions and millions of
procedures and teaching us everything. But sort of wanted to
(04:04):
start from the beginning. You know, I know you grew
up in Jordan. I was wondering if you could tell
us a little bit about your upbringing. Did you grow
up in a big city? Did you always know you
wanted to be a doctor. Who was your inspiration to
pursue medicine?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Thanks Rob, Thanks again, and first before I start, congratulations
on the three hundred and fififth anniversary. This is ruly
a milestone my head. You thank you so much for
what you well. I was born in a small town.
Well now it's not small anymore. It used to be
small called Madaba. It's about almost thirty five miles south
(04:43):
of the city of Amman, which is the capital of Jordan.
You know, you know my mom and dad. My dad
was a Korean military soldier, not an officer.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
He was in the army.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
He was actually a royal bodyguard for King Hussin, King
Husein of Jordan. My mom was a housewife, illiterate, never
went to school back then. Of course, as Jordanian family
grew in the desert. My father and my mother were
both born just outside a Man in the desert of Jordan.
(05:17):
Education especially for females was part of no no like
the unfortunately old days of Taliban. Of course, things have
changed significantly now and I lived the first two years
in a Madaba. Then because of my father's work, we
moved to Amman, the capital, in the center of the city.
(05:38):
Actually we lived there for approximately two more years, and
then we moved to another smaller section.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Of the city called Jabel and Muza.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Stayed there for about almost ten years, and then we
moved to our where we current address is the Sports City,
which was a new subsection of a man back then,
when people moved to that section, people ask them, are
you are of your mind? No electricity, no transportation, nothing,
(06:09):
And of course, within very short time period, electricity got there,
water got there. And I spent the risk of my
youth basically in that house where we built it in
nineteen sixty seven and lived in it until the day
I moved to the US in nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So see, you're telling me that you started at it.
You're telling me that you started and you didn't even
have electricity initially at the house that you were grown
up in.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
No electricity?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Are all in the house that we had, because you know,
it was a new subsection, and of course we were
the fourth house in the Sports City where now it's
hundreds of thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
It's very crowded the area now.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
But you know, fortunately within a couple of years after that,
we had you know, power, you know, power into the
house and ethnicity. So when I used to study, I
used to actually study some in the house, but then
later I would go to a park area where there
is electricity and sit under the lamps there to study
(07:13):
until it becomes really somewhat dark, and then I used
to come home about you know, eight nine pm, you
know home.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Wow, that's very interesting, And I mean, how hard was
it to become a physician in Jordan? Is it very competitive?
And who inspired you to be a doctor?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
That's a great question, Rob, So.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I'm sure given in the US back then, and I
hope still now, to be a physician, as you know,
was the most admirable thing, the most noble thing. And
the hi Jazzy family we did not have any physician
in the family. And of course as a child, I
got sick a few times, and one of the times,
(07:58):
which was I don't recall because I was, you know,
under the age of two, I was pretty sick. And
my mom always reminds me of this story. And when
my mom or my grandmother used to get sick, they
used to take them to the doctor, and I used
to go as a child with my dad because I
was the oldest kid, and seeing the doctors there and
(08:19):
what they do for patients honestly inspired me significantly, especially
when I saw them taking care of my grandmother. And
even as a child five six years of age, my
mother would remind me that I would hold the thing
that for the koffee on the head for the men.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It looks like a statiscope.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
So I would take my dad's head and put it
on the chest of my mom listening as a statisco
So it goes back to a very young age that
I really wanted to be a doctor.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
But of course big influence my mom and dad.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Being their oldest son and no family in the physicians
in the family, and of course my father education to
sixty grade and my mom is illiterate. They wanted their
son to do something big, and you know, something big
in Jordance medicine. So for medicine in Jordan, there was
only one medical school for the entire country and admission
(09:19):
was extremely competitive. So you have among the top basically
the top one hundred student out of about sixty seventy
thousand students to be considered for medicine. So fortunately I
was among those the top fifty students in the country
and I was accepted to do medical you know, medical
(09:42):
school in Jordan in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Wow, amazing story. And Zee you go to medicine, you said,
the pediatricians and also your grandmother's doctors had inspired Did
you know when you were in medical school that you
were going to become a pediatrician and a cardiology.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I did not know that I was going to be
a pediatrician, but a cardiologist, as I was inspired by
my teacher in medical school, a guy who's still alive today.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
His name is doctor Yusuf Kussus.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Doctor Cussus was a cardiologist and probably you know back
then a cardiologist was a cardioist for everything pediatrics and about.
So doctor thus was extremely smart cardiologists. And he gave
us lectures in medical school, you know, you know where
we do cardiology, and some of the lectures were congenital
(10:38):
heart disease. And I was inspired by that individual how
he taught us a congenital heart disease. Of course there
was no intervention, there was nothing at that time, but
his lectures. I said, one day, you know what, this
looks really good. I'd like to be like him. And
then when I was in nineteen ninety eight, I was
(11:00):
fourth year, fourth yere out of six years a medical school.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
A big conference was held in a Man, Jordan.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
The Arab American Medical Association, which is at that time
was best in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
They had their annual meeting in a Man Jordan. Wow,
so American student.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I said, I'm going to go to this conference and attend,
you know, americal lectures. And one of the doctors that
I met there still alive, doctor Zudi Lebabdi. I'm sure
you know, the first one in the world to do
a war take balloon vavio plasty and the first one
to do a work Coortian agiblastic. So of course that
(11:39):
back then I did not know that he did all
these things. I knew that, you know, he was a
professor at a young age forty years of age and
gave us election on ramatic fever and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I said, Wow, I'd love to be like this guy
one day. Wow.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
So doctor Lebabdi used to love jogging, so I would
introduced myself to him, and he asked me he would
like to do jougging.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Is there a place in the city where he can go?
I said, of.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Course, I'll pick you up in my car and I'll
take you to the sports city where I lived. There
was a big jugging part and I did this for
three days and of course got to know him better.
He gave me his business card, and when he lived
he told me in the future, if you need anything,
(12:24):
you can count on me.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Wow Wow.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
And of course years gone by, and of course I
came to America in eighty four and I started with
my master's in Public Kills mph atar, but my aspiration
was more than just in pH and my advisor in
public kill, doctor Dorothy Hortsman. She sat with me and
she said, Zee, what are you going to do after
(12:50):
the MPH So I asked him, do you have any advice,
doctor Hortsman? She said, how about pediatric cardiology? You like
cardiology and you know pediatrics is good.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So I asked him where shall I do this?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
She said, well, I know the chair of pediatrics that
here in New Haven here is Go and meet him.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
His name.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Of course he passed away since then doctor Howard Pearson.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
He was one of.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
The presidents of the American Academy of Pediatrics and a
well known pediatric heematologist on cologists in the world, an
expert on sickle cell disease, and very good friend. With
Paul Newman, they established the Camp for Kids with cancer.
So I went to him and I introduced myself. So
the first thing he asked me where did he go
(13:38):
to make in school? So I said, of course, proudly
Jordan University. He took his glasses and he said, at Yale,
we don't accept foreign graduates. Yes, of course, but since
Dorothy sent you, go to the chief resident, his name
is John Limbert and see what he can do with you.
(13:59):
So I went to John and John said, well, although
you are a doctor, but we can't put you as
a doctor.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
You have to be like a third year medical student.
I said, no, prominent, So I did one week.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
He saw you know good, and he said, well, we
can put you a sub intern, so you can do
everything like the intern, except when you want to sign
orders you have to sign co sign them by the
intern on the other ward.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I said, no problem. So I did this for ten months.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Wow, and they get to know me. And when time
came to apply for residency. Of course, at that time
I knew the pediator cardiologist. I met doctor Norm Taylor,
Charlie Kleman and Billy helen Brandt and John Fee, so
they get to know.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Me very well, and they said you're gonna do pediator cardiology.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
So I right, of course, mysidency at Yale, and of
course being Yale. They would not even hint that, hey,
we're going to accept you here. They said, will apply,
you'd interview and when the matches ups come out out.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You will know.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
And of course I went to through this grueling process
of match you know, matching. Of course, when I sent
for application for interviews for residency back then, was bored
by mail, as you you may remember. So I sent
fifty requests to fifty institutions. I received thirty five applications.
(15:23):
Out of the thirty five applications, I had zo interviews.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Wow, this is froid.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
So the only interview which was guaranteed was here because
I was there. So the residency program director guarded bless
his soul, Norm Seagill, called me. He said, see what happened.
I said, well, that's what happened. No interviews, He said,
come to my office. Give me the names of the
program director. So I gave him seven names that he knew.
(15:54):
So on the phone he got me seven interviews. Wow,
including one at Charp. Of course, let me go back
to our friend doctor Lebabidie. So I called his office
to try to speak to him. Yes out he did
not take the call. And after multiple calls I'm sure
(16:15):
if he's a lie, I'm hope he's alive. He will
listen to this into review and he can tell me
if I'm right or wrong.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
But I am right.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
So I called his office and I insisted I want
to talk to him from downstairs in his hospital.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Lobby, and he said he could not help. Of course,
that broke my heart, woke my heart.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
So luckily, fortunately I matched at Yale and did my
regency at Yale as well as my fellowship, and the
rest is history. And you know, I never hold the grudges.
And that's one thing I learned in my life that
anybody that knocks my door for help, no matter whether
I need them or I don't need I'll do my best.
(17:02):
And after that there is this up to that individual
and the program that.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
But I never say sorry.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I can't wow because through my position, through your position,
you know, we are in power positions.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
We can help people if we want to.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
So if somebody when your door, help and this will
come back to you years later.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I helped a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
And I tell you people that I never met on
the phone, they hear of my name, they phone, they
call the email and you know what, I listened to them,
and I say, you know what, I was in that
position when they help help people.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I know, and I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Wow, that's an extraordinary story. I mean, so many people
who are instrumental in helping you. But then I thought
for sure you were going to send the doctor Lemabedia.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
It helped you, unfortunately did not help me at all.
And then you can see you now we are how
many years after that? For three years, I still remember
it like yesterday, and every time I mentioned it, it
really hurts me a lot because he could have helped.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
He was a big shot in our fielders. You know.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Well, let me ask you. You were at Yale, you're
pediatric cardiology fellow. How'd you decide to do interventions? I
mean it seems to me like you were born doing interventions,
but at some point you had to make that decision.
So how did that get done?
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Well, you know when you had two hours in your
division Charlie Kleman and Bill hilen Brand, and what when
I was a fellow, so you know, as you started
choreology as general pediat carreology. And I was fortunate enough
to be at Yale with Bill helen Brand.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And Bill was.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Among the private club in America for the interventional carreology.
As you remember, there were five people in North America
that really shaped the field of interventional choreology. You know, Bill,
Jim Luck, Chuck Mullins, God bless his soul, Larry Latson,
and Lie Benson. These are the five people that had
(19:16):
the devices that people in America looked at them to
for you know, opinion, for adventure, for anything. And when
you have Bill at Yale, you'll be out of your
mind to say, well, I'm going to go elsewhere or
I'm going to do echo choreography. Although Charlie was very powerful,
(19:36):
but the therapeutic aspect of interventional choreology, that's what grew
to me. I have the nature of a surgeon that
I want to do something and see the result now,
not diagnose and take this or do this and that.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Charlie he taught us a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
And I am indebted a lot to Charlie because I
learned so many things from him, not just in medicine,
but in life, in manners, in generosity and everything. The
most generous person you can meet in your life was Charliekumigel.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, I was very lucky to have worked with Charlie
and with Bill, so I certainly know about what you're speaking.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know two people.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
So Bill, you know, never invited a fellow out for dinner.
I was the first one to invite out to the
most expensive restaurant in the New Haven and both us
a nice gift.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I still have.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
It because we developed a bond and we became very
very close, of course, to this dead.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yes, yes, well, I mean there's so many aspects of
your career, and for those in the audience, doctor Johnsy
is nice enough to speak with us. It's seven hours
ahead in Toha, so it's pretty late at night there,
and it's very kind of you to speak with us.
So you finish up your fellowship ze you go to Tofts.
How did you make that decision to go there? That's
a tough I've often wondered about that because you've got
(21:01):
this behemoth about a mile down the road and you
really made quite an inroad there. How did you decide
to do that? That's quite remarkable.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
So, as you know, Jim came to Yale to practice
Bill with VSD Claudion and.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I was the fellow at that time.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I was fortunate enough to meet Jim Lock, and of
course Bill and Charlie introduced me to Jim back then.
So when I finished my fellowship, Tufts was looking for
intellivinential colliologists and the chief you know him, O our.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Good friend David Fulton.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So he interviewed me and he liked what I have
to say and he offered me the job.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So before I took the job, I went, of course to.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Boston children to Jim to tell him that doctor Locke,
you know this job, and he encouraged me.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
He said, absolutely, no problems are all tafety job.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
So I took the job, and after that it turned
out different.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
So, you know, I trained with Bill.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I could do PDA closure, I could do you know
whatever other interventions, but there were no devices approved in
the US, and the only person in Boston that has
access to, for example, the ruction and umbrella was Jim.
So I had a patient with a large PDA and
so I called Jim. I said, doctor Luck, I'd love
(22:22):
to invite you to come to Tufts so that we
can do a PDA closure together with the umbrella. He
said absolutely, So he came and he did not screw up.
He sat in the control room. I did the entire
procedure from A to Z with excellent results. And you know,
obviously I on a radium, I you know, and paid
him on raarium, which is a standard for our profession,
(22:45):
and thank.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You and everything. Then about a few months later I
had another case.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I invited him and he declined, so I knew that
that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So you know, I find no problem. And in nineteen
eighty five, a guy.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
By the name of Gladwin Daths, a cardiologist adult coliogist
in Minneapolis, Minnesota, invented the angel wings.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yes I remember that.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
And called me and he said, Zee, I'd like you
to be the national PI on the angel wings.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Of course I did everything.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I did the first case in the world in Boston
in June nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Five, and of course big news.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
We put it in the media. Of course, the news
got to Boston children. So there was a lot of
friction now that this little place, the floating hospital, competing
with you know, the begem At, you know, Bob the children. Well,
you know, I did not pay attention to this. I said,
you know what, do a good job and patients would come.
So I started getting patients from every corner in the
(23:54):
country because I had the angel Wings, and then when
the angel Wings fell apart, I became the PI on
the Amblatza and I did the worst case in North
America May nineteen, nineteen ninety seven, and that device brought
me hundreds of patients from every corner in the US
(24:16):
and abroad. So when they come and land the logan,
they don't go to Barston Children, They'll come to the Floating.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So obviously doctor Locke.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Realized this, and of course in nineteen ninety seven I
started PICKS, and I'll come back.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
To Picks and I'll tell you the story of Picks.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
So more notoriety, more fame for Tufts and the Floating.
So he decided, you know what, I've got to break
that program. So requickly negotiation between doctor Fulton and Jim
Locke to acquire the group without my knowledge at all,
(24:54):
and we finished Picks, which was a huge success. And
a week later David come to me and says, see,
I'm going to tell you the news. He said, what
blah blah blah blah, we are moving to Boston children
five cardiologists. I said, what about me? He said, Doctor
Locke will talk to you, but you're welcome to come.
(25:16):
So I said, come as what. So Jim talked to
me and offered me to come with the group, but
as a staff cardogist.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I said, well, no, I won't come as a staff cardiogist.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
The only position I will I will accept is director
of the Calf Lab. He said no, of course, because
the stand was the calf Lab black, which I respect
and I understand. And I became by default the chief
of pediatric cardiology at TUTS.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Right, So you were like the lone man's standing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Basically myself and two other guys.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
So I went rooted five other cardiologists to rebuild the
entire program, and we became stronger than before, more patients,
more devices, the vsd K, the PDA devices, you remember
you wrote the seminal paper on that, and more and
more patients. And Jim would say, oh, see, there's a
(26:05):
job in Atlanta. There's a job in this as a gym.
When I find the right job, I'll take it. I
know I leave Boston, but I'll leave it for the
right job. And of course, in nineteen ninety nine a
good job came at the University of Chicago as chief
of Periata Cardiology and that's when I lived in Boston.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So that's the story of Boston and the Tufts, and
you know the relationship.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
And of course, as you know now, unfortunately the floating
ceased to exist because Boston children bought the entire program
to kill the competition in the city.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I see, you know, I was interested. You mentioned your
extraordinary role with amplants or devices. I mean, that's how
I think of you. I think that's when I first
got to know you. And I'm wondering, like, how did
you get to meet Pert Amplats and how did that go?
I mean, it always seemed to be a very close
(27:02):
relationship you had with him, and it's like how did
that developed?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Yeah, so that's a great question and a great part
of the history.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Rob.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
So in nineteen eighty five, we had a sci meeting
I think it was in.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
A Boulder, Colorado, somewhere in Colorado, and I was chairing
a session and.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
The session was on ASD closure and doctor Rao cmraw
was giving his data on the button device, and suddenly,
from the back of the room, a gentleman stood up
and said, bullshit, sorry for the language, and we can
(27:46):
cover it.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And I looked back and I did not know at
that time doctor Amplas.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
We all heard the name and had a picture of
the guy, but never really talked to the guy. So
I said, you know, excuse me, you introduce the people
to the doctor Umplants.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
They said. So the session finished and we had coffee break.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So I said, in the coffee break with doctor Umplatz,
I said, doctor Rumblats, I mean you were demolished the
guy and you said, bullshit device.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Do you have anything better?
Speaker 3 (28:16):
And he pulls out of his pocket the Unplatza device
and he shorted to I said, doctor Umplas, this is.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Too good to be true. You know, he pulls it
stritched reforms.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I said, we've got to bring this device to America,
he said, and did the device exists at all?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
This was just like a prototype you were holding in
your hand.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
It was a prototype. But he did a couple of
cases in brettish Lava before that, I say, got it.
The first two human cases. We're done with Joseph Masora
in bratish Lav and I'll come to this shortly.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And for those from the audience, Doctor Amplatz was a radiologist,
not a carniologist, but an extraordinarily.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
What's that again, A cardiovascular revie argist. I'll tell you
a little bit more about Court now. So Court said,
you bring it to America. So I come back. I
was in Boston and I contacted Court. He put me
in touch with his son in law. Back then that
he's not his Sonyla anymore. They got divorced a guy
(29:21):
by the name of Frank Gujon So remember a platz
g Gujon Law and the other Mike Effermov, the engineer,
Russian engineer, Russian American of course, but was raised in
Russia and came.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
To America and he was the engineer. So the three
of them established a GA.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And for those in the audience, Aga was the name
of the company that manufactured and designed the Amplatzer device,
which ultimately was purchased by another company. Just for those
who may not be as familiar.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
So I said to them, okay, guys, we need to
bring the device to America. We need to do a
trial in the But before I do this, I need
to try a couple of cases.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Wherever you guys have me. This is one Bratislava.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
So I flew from Boston to Vienna, and Vienna they
picked me up by a car and we drove forty
minutes to Bratislava, which is the capital of Slovak Republic,
where Joseph Massoro was waiting for me, was the most
gracious host. We did three ASDs and one PDA before
three pm in the afternoon. As you remember around with
(30:30):
the rational umbrella with the card you see, you do
a case, you spend the whole day because you need
to figure this and the arm of this umbrella the
other arm. The plaza was so damn easy. Every time
they can Harry could do it. So I did the
cases and I wrote the manuscript the First Human Cases
(30:52):
on the plane coming back to Boston. Submitted the manuscript
and it was published, and of course I put back
to Joseph Massola, the first author, because he was the
first one to do the cases.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But I wrote the paper and we published it, and
when we.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Landed, I called Kurt and Frank. I said, guys, we've
got to do this. We have to bring it to America.
So we contacted the FDA. Our relationship was very quid
with them, and they said submit a protocol. We wrote
the protocol, submitted the protocol and they approved us to
do the first case in nineteen ninety seven May nineteen,
(31:30):
nineteen ninety seven. And Kurt, for those of you who
don't know Kurt, as Rob said, at that time, in
nineteen seventy two, he was seventy nine ninety five.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
In nineteen ninety seven, he was seventy two years of
age Magen and he was at.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
The top of his invention abilities. So Kurt came to
attend case. We did the case, and of course the
news was all over, you know, the TV media and
stuff like that, and of course we did the trial,
(32:11):
took it to the FDA approval in September ten, two
thousand and one, one day before September eleven.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I never forget that day because.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
A lot of my colleagues decided to stay in DC
to celebrate. I had to come to Chicago to for
media interviews for the trial with the Chicago Tribune and
interviewed and during the interview, my secretary pulled me aside
and she said, come and watched the TV and we
saw the horrible news of September eleven, and you know,
(32:43):
the device became approved and then the PDA, the VSD
and the pffour device. So doctor Amplaz very inventive human
being developed so many things and we are indebted to
his pioneering efforts. And by the way, Rob, this year
is the anniversary fiftieth anniversary of the first trans cathit asd.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Clodore, performed by doctor Terry D. King from Monroe, Louisiana,
and we.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Are hosting him at Pigs to commemorate this anniversary, and
you are into reviewing him at that event. Him and
the other guy that you interviewing is doctor Philip one
half on the twenty fifth anniversary for the first trans
cathit heart Van not just haalmonic palmonic heart Van. Philip
(33:34):
did the first case in well it's two thousand, but
actually I scrubbed with Philippe on his second case in
nineteen ninety nine in Paris before.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
He moved to London.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Wow. Wow, quite remarkable. And for those in the audience,
Doctor hit Johnsy and other course organizers were kind enough
to invite me to speak with both gentlemen, and so
we're going to have that on the podcast. First of all,
you should come to the Picks course at the end
of August. I'll have a link to that in the
podcast show notes this week. But I also for those
(34:09):
of you who aren't able to make it, We're gonna
it's gonna be very exciting to speak with doctor King,
as doctor Jozzi said, the first ASD international cardiologist, and
of course doctor Bonhoffer, who is notable for his extraordinary
work in valves. You know, the We could spend four hours.
It's amazing to me your memory of things. You have
the exact date. I can't remember what I had for
(34:31):
lunch yesterday, and tell me the exact date that all
these things happen. It's really remarkable.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
It's you know, Rob, you know when you do things
for the first time, you know the first you for example,
the Hart valve and palmonic in North America, I did
that when I was at University of Chicago in December
two thousand and six. So these events, it's hard for
the individual to forgive them.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
You know, Ze, we could go in a million diactions.
I don't want to keep you very very well, but
I think that with all the things you're known for
in cardiology, I would say that the Picks course is
certainly top among the many many accomplishments that you've done.
And I'm wondering if you could speak to the audience
about how did you have this idea? And I'm guessing
(35:17):
this was a massive undertaking initially. I mean, I know
it's a massive undertaking every year, but the first year
or two must have been very, very challenging. How did
you have this idea and how difficult was it to
get it off the ground. I want to say I'm
proud that I was at the second picks, but I
did not meant the first.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So rob So for those of you who don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
And aside from being a pediatic slash congital cordiologist, I
also invented with Numid a colony stint so. In nineteen
ninety three, ninety four, ninety five, ninety six, ninety seven
to two thousand, I was traveling the world doing colnery
stinting with my stint s partning adult cordiologist, and I
(36:02):
became very close a friend with Marty Leon who most
of you know him or should know him. Marty is
a pioneer interventional carlleologist actually at Columbia in New York
City beside you, and Marty runs a course CALLEDCT Yes.
And also through my travels in Europe to pract European colleologist,
(36:26):
there was a course there initially writed with them. Then
in two loose there was another one and in Madrid.
And these are three courses. Move to what we call
today EuroPCR. So now there are two big courses in
the world EuroPCR in Europe and TCT in the US.
So I said, we need a course for congital heart
(36:49):
disease for pediatic carllology. So in nineteen einety six I approached.
First person to approach was doctor Jim Luck. So I said, Jim,
I have this idea, and I have of course letters, correspondence, documentation,
and I faxed him the idea and everything, and of
(37:09):
course his response, Nope, this will fail miserably. But he
was kind enough to advise me to contact a European
guy and call John. What's the name of the guy?
Used to be in Rotterdam. Shoot, his name is Skips.
My I'll get this, no not of, no, not taps
(37:32):
of he used to be at Rotterdam, at Sophia Children's Hospital,
I'll get I'll get to him.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
He will.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
So I sent him a fax and of course never
responded to the facts. So I went in nineteen ninety
six to Rotterdam to attend the.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Es, the European Staty, the s SC yes, and I
him right there.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
So I said, John, I sent you a facts blah
blah blah about this. He said, we'll send it again.
So I sent him the facts again to ask him
to be, of course co directly with me for this
new course. And of course he said, no, it will fail.
So I called you know, I said, you know what,
let me call Billy and Charlie.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
You know my mentors. So I called him.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
They said, the great idea. Yes, we will partner with you,
with one condition. The finances is your responsibility. I said,
no problems. I am confident we will not lose money.
So September nineteen ninety seven, the first PIX meeting at
(38:40):
the Marriott Long Wharf in Boston. The total number of
attendees with the faculty was eighty seven. Okay, eighty seven.
But even with that, we did not lose money. We
we broke even. And then the second meeting was also
from Boston, nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And then of course in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
I moved to Chicago, so I moved the course with
me to Chicago. And of course Bill and I we're
the only course directors and we had many course called directors. Now,
of course Demien took big part on the meeting and
he basically runs the entire program.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
With the other course directors and co directors.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
We have great, great really directors and co directors that
they held a lot.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
I was listening. He's speaking of course of Damian Kenny
from Ireland whose course director.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yes, that's right. So the course has really blossomed.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
We had been doing it every year and on a
couple of occasions we did it outside the US. We
did it in Toronto with the World Congress. We did
it in guness Aaris with the World Congress. We did
it in Kerns, Australia with the World Congress two.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
We did it in Cape Town in two thousand and
third team with the World Congress. So really every World
Congress we partner with the group there and go from there.
And for the last two years or so, now we
do an.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Edition in Istanbul, Turkey.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
So twenty twenty four we had picks Istambul in April,
and in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
We're going to do also Picks Istanbul.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
I partnered with Mario Carminatti who used to be running
the IPC course. So the IPC and Picks merged into
one meeting in Europe every other year in April, and
then the pics US course is this year as Rob
mentioned this in Chicago August twenty five to twenty eight.
And we have a fellow's course, so we have fifty
(40:43):
pediatric Caldig fellows. We fly them, feed them, teach them,
house them all for free so that we can take
care of our future generations.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
That's really remarkable. You know. See we've only touched on
so many of your many acomplishments. You've done so much.
I'm wondering what do you view as your most important
achievement or accomplishment in your very long career, which by
the way, is not over, but so far.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Well, you know, there are so many things that I
am very proud being part of it. And I was
given the opportunity because people believed in me. And I mean,
you know, the first one, of course, was Billy Hillenbrand
to have believed in me and to accept me with
him under his wings, as well as Charlie, because without
their help I would not be sitting here. These two
(41:36):
gentlemen shaped the way I am in every aspect and
I am indebted to both of them and we are
very good friends with them.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Of course, Charlie passed away in twenty eleven.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
So.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
The ASD Claudier, I consider myself very fortunate that I
have met Kurt Umplatz at that meeting. That why I
tell people go to meetings, guys, you learn something, but
more important networking ideas industry is there. Engineers are there,
so you've got to go to meetings to network and
(42:12):
meet the people. So I met the right people. They
gave me the right opportunity and I took it and
I busted my bud for that. And one company I
need to acknowledge that really helped me a lot with
a lot of innovations is numid Al to our senior
and now of course to our junior, a small company
(42:33):
in upstate New York, Coptinton family company that believe in
us in physicians because our ideas are so important. But
without their skills as engineers, we will never see the
light of these devices. So NEWMD has really worked very hard,
(42:54):
and I can tell you both as are alive and
the relationship is excellent.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
When they come uh to to.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Visit me to do something, we go to the animal
lab do the work and on this spot do prototypes,
modifications until you get your final prototype to test in
the humans with the the eptostomy catacters, the Zmied cataters,
my stent that you know, the Corry extent, and the
list goes on. So it's really these companies, so a
(43:23):
Sdclaudial balloon, engine, Plastic, the valves, transcattle valve because as
I said, I was fortunate enough again because of Newman,
because before metronic.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Boat uh the MELODYE valve.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Neuman developed the valve with the with the philippvan Hoffer,
and I was the second person to implant the valve
with Philip in Paris. John She of course, as you know,
his pioneer work with with Noumid with the CP stint.
So all of these milestones is important, and of course
the last thing was the Venus uh P valve.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
You know. Doctor chall On myself went to China in twenty.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Twelve to work with the engineers there and I did
the animal work all of it in Chicago and did
the first in man or human in twenty thirteen in China.
So a lot of opportunities that I took a chance
and people believed in it, so it's really I mean,
did it to so many people who gave me the opportunity,
(44:25):
and most of these innovations paid off and we use
many of these in their clinical practice. Of course, there
are other innovations that only patents on papers.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
We have yet to see them in an enlightenment. You know,
that's life.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
You know, see Mike Prrecton saying you are partially retired
now or are you not retired?
Speaker 3 (44:46):
So it's on paper and on pay scale. Yes, partially
retired because as some of you know, twenty fourteen January,
I moved to Dljakata to establish new hospital, Cindra Medicine,
which I'm very proud to say, Yes, I recruited majority
of the physicians at the hospital, not just in pediatic colology,
(45:08):
because I was also fortunate to be the chief medical officer,
chairman of pediatrics and all of this. And my wife
did not live in Dauha. She lived in San Diego
and she would commute and obviously this took a big
tour on her and me, and finally she said, well
either this or that, so she made the grounds. We decided,
(45:30):
you know what, let me partially retire to do two
weeks a month in and the two weeks in San Diego.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
No job.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
But of course when I come to San Diego, I'm
never off the laptop and programs and visits and trips.
So I still work a lot, but you know, at
least at least two weeks a month.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I don't have to report to anybody at all.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
So yes, So another lesson there, Happy wife, happy life always,
And tell me a little bit about your family life.
So you're married obviously for many, many years.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Tell me about my wife. My wife, Marie.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
We met when I was a medical student in Jordan
in nineteen eighty I was a naughty boy.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
She was a flight attendant.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
But we met on the in the swimming pool, harassed
here until she looked at me, and we dated and
we got married in nineteen eighty three in Jordan, and
we have one son, Tarek.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Graduated, went to a.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
High school, to the best school in Chicago and one
of the best in the country, the Lab School.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Obama kids daughters.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
You know, Sasha and Malia, they went there and that's
where we met, you know, Obama, the president and his wife.
His wife also I met because she was the vice
president of my hospital of University of Chicago. So we
met both of them in different functions for the school
and for me different functions with the Missus Obama as
VP for government affairs. And he went to college University
(47:05):
of Arizona. Of course, did not want anything to do
with medicine, so he did business and finance and graduated
from University of Arizona in twenty ten. So the first
job he got was through my help, of course, with
a medical device company PFM, you know PFM from Germany.
They have a branch in Diego. Then he worked one year,
(47:26):
one and a half year. Then he calls, he says, Mom, Dad,
I hate my job. So he said, okay, what was
plan B. He wanted to be a hydroponic farmer. Wow,
I did not oh at that time, what was hydroponic farming?
Of course we got upset, but you know, finally we said, fine,
farmer farming. So he did about six and a half
seven years farming. Then he calls again and he says, well,
(47:49):
I want to be a doctor. He did, you know,
business and finance. And that's the great thing about America, the.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Opportunities they give to the individual.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
So he went to medical school, graduated last May and
he's the first year of Family Medicine president in San Diego.
He has met then he married Darren, his wife, and
they have a son who will be two years in August.
Third his name is Owen Max Jersey, so wow wow.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
So you are a grandfather, so that's another And where
do they live? Again?
Speaker 3 (48:22):
The they live in San Diego, about thirty five minutes
from where we live, which is good because he went
to school in New Mexico in a town called Las Crusas,
and to get to that town you have to fly
to il Paso, drive fifteen minutes from il Paso to
that town. So thank god. Now they live in San Diego.
We can see them whenever I am there, just half
(48:44):
an hour you are there.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
I'm sure that your grandson is also a big draw,
only working two weeks. But well see, you know a
lot of young people tend to listen to the podcast.
I think you're probably one of the most productive people
I've ever known, or ever even heard of. How do
you have any advice for people on how to manage
(49:07):
some balance in your life? I mean, it seems to
me like I think you've I always think of you
as the highest energy guy I know, But like, how
how did you? How did you balance all these extraordinary things?
I mean, you travel tremendously, You've been innovated a million times,
so many different things. You have the PIS course. That
PIX course alone could take someone an entire year. It's
(49:28):
a schedule every year. How did you do all of
that and still still have your wife love you?
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Unfortunately, I have to tell the young people on the podcast,
Unfortunately there's no balance.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
It's one of two things.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Either you want to be famous, innovative and people know you,
or you can be just a good doctor, take care
of your family and your practice and you're successful, no
questions about this. But if if you want to be
that individual sacrifice, and unfortunately, the sacrifice I paid was family.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
My son when he grew.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
Up, When the occasional days that I took him to
school and I tried to strike a conversation, he would
look at me like this, who the hell are you?
Speaker 2 (50:22):
We'd even talk to me.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
Obviously, now he understands that I was doing all of
this for family. But unfortunately, so if I want to
give somebody an advice, now, of course, work hard, bust you,
but whatever time you can car for your family, do it.
Do not ignore them at all, because they are the
unknown soldier.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Because my success.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
Not just from me alone, my wife and my son,
because without their support, I would not be sitting here.
So try to spend whatever equality time with your family
and the opportunities you get. Die for it, kill for it,
do whatever it takes for it so that you can
finish your project before time. Fellows they know me, Demien
(51:10):
can tell you, and and other fellows. I give them
a deadline for any manuscript or any project. If the
project is not ready by that day, they will not
receive any project. So fortunately all the fellows they knew
that and they all delivered. You know, you can ask
Ralph Demian. While you know all these fellows, they are
(51:30):
all leaders now in their countries and in their field.
So working hard is the key, and being true to
yourself and to the profession and to your patient. Spend
time with your patient, listen to them, and spend extra time.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
They appreciate this more than anything else.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Well as expected great wisdom from you, indeed, and I'm
sure people who are listening are going to take a
lot out of this, particularly hearing it from someone like yourself. Well, see,
I really can't thank you enough. First of all for
being on the podcast, of course, and taking almost an
hour of your time is really extremely kind of you.
And of course I want to thank you for always
(52:11):
being so supportive to me. I barely see you through
the years, but you've always been exactly the way you've described.
You ask Zee for something and he says yes one
hundred percent of the time. It's not even a question.
You have to be careful because he's so nice that
he'll say yes to anything. So I really am extraordinarily appreciative.
You've always been very supportive of me, and I'm very
appreciative of it, as I am sure many many, many
(52:33):
people who are listening to this podcast are going to
have exactly the same feeling. So thank you for everything
you've meant to our careers, but also to our field
and to our patients. There are literally millions of people
who benefit from all of the efforts you've done over
the last thirty or forty years and continue to do,
and so congratulations to you on all of.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
These all of this, Thank you for this podcast and
for having me tonight.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
It's just really a privilege, an honor.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
To to be on this Thank you very much. Well,
I'm not going to add much here, as I think
doctor Hijazi is clearly a most eloquent speaker. To me,
there are two aspects of his life that really came
through loud and clear for me from this interview. First,
he's someone who recognizes the role of help that he
received in his life and how small kindnesses and sources
(53:25):
of inspiration from mentors and teachers like doctor CUSOs in
Jordan or doctor Horseman or Pearson or helen Brand or
Kleinman who made important differences in his life. And he's
made it a goal of his life to pass on
the same kind of kindness to others by trying to
help just about anyone he can. I do think there's
(53:45):
an important lesson there. The second was his extraordinary candor
and reminding us that one really can't do it all,
and the notion of having balance in one's life when
you care for children and adults with congel heart disease
is going to necessarily mean that there are going to
be shortcomings. And it reminds me of another podcaster who's
famous for saying that you can have anything but not everything.
(54:09):
And I think doctor Hejazi in similar vein is saying
you can do anything, but perhaps not everything. Choose wisely.
I'd again like to thank doctor Herjazi for taking time
from his extremely busy schedule to speak with us very
late at night in Doha this week to conclude this
special three hundred and fiftieth milestone episode of Pedihart Pediatric Cardiology.
(54:31):
Today with Professor Ziad Hejazi, we end with the wonderful
Chinese tenor Shi Yiji, who's professor of music at the
Chinese University of Hong Kong. Mister Yigi sings all over
the world and is known mostly for his work in
the belcanto repertoire with composers like Donizetti, Rossini or Bellini,
where the composer asks for a tenor who has a
(54:51):
magnificent upper range. Mister Gyigi has sung already in most
of the operatic houses of the world, and he's also
well known for singing and popularizing Chinese art songs.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Today we hear.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Him singing the difficult and inspiring aria a mes Ami
from Donizetti's Daughter of the Regiment, and this aria is
considered particularly challenging because of the very large number of
high seas that the composer challenges the tenor with I
think you will agree that mister Yuji hits this one
out of the park in this live performance on stage
from seven years ago. Thanks once again for listening to
(55:25):
this week's podcast, and thanks for joining me for the
last three hundred and fifty. Finally, thanks to doctor ziata
Jasi for sharing his life with us. I hope we'll
have a good.
Speaker 6 (55:35):
Week AHEADA so bad.
Speaker 4 (56:00):
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time meal, moy ti ebody, tryst say so and s
(56:39):
so so first bortime.
Speaker 7 (57:00):
Sh ssure hey Sam school.
Speaker 4 (57:08):
Brost men money or I'm not your head the star ship.
Speaker 7 (57:30):
Sure he Sam not si senor tied mio seen s
tired money
Speaker 2 (57:46):
Me
Welcome to Pdhart Pediatric Cardiology Today. My name is doctor
Robert Cass and I'm the host of this podcast. I
am Professor of Pediatrics at the Icon School of Medicine
at Mount Sinai, where I am the co director of
the Children's Heart Center as well as the chief of
Pediatric Cardiology. Thank you for joining me for this milestone
three hundred and fiftieth episode of Pdhart. I can't believe
(00:37):
we're three hundred and fifty episodes. This show would be
nothing without you, the listener, and so I want to
thank you very much for coming with me on this
journey through our literature, as well as the people of
Pediatric cardiovascer Medicine. Thank you so very much. I hope
all enjoyed last week's episode, in which I replayed a
conversation I had with experts on the topic of ctculum
(00:58):
energic polymorphic tricular takic cardia. For those of you who
are interested in this important topic, i'd recommend you take
to listen to last week's repeat episode this week, to
celebrate the three hundred and fiftieth episode of Pedhart Pediatric Cardiology. Today,
we're going to be joined by the Master of Interventional
Cardiology Doctor Ziad Hijazi. Doctor Hijazi is well known throughout
(01:19):
our community. He is presently Professor of Pediatrics and Medicine,
Senior Attending Cardiologist and Medical Director of the International Medical
Affairs Branch of Sidra Medicine in Doha Kutter. Doctor Hijazi
is also past President of the Society of Cardiac Angiography
and Interventions and President of the Pediatric and Congenital Interventional
(01:40):
CARDIOVASCAR Society or PIX Society, which he co started. He
is a graduate of Jordan University School of Medicine in
nineteen eighty two and completed MPH training at the Yale
University School of Medicine in nineteen eighty six. Following early
training in Jordan, he performed his residency in pediatrics at
YU Yale, followed by cardiology and interventional cardiology also at Yale.
(02:05):
He has won many major interventional and cardiology awards, too
numerous to mention here, and he's on the editorial boards
of many important interventional cardiology journals. His contributions to cardiology
and particularly interventional cardiology are massive, with some of the
more important ones being all of the varied amplatzer devices,
(02:25):
which have improved the lives of literally millions of children
and adults. He also has played a central role in
trans catheter valve techniques and device development, and has been
particularly active in the development, most recently of the so
called Venus P valve. He is also the founder and
co course director of the Picks Interventional Course, which has
(02:46):
rapidly become the favorite of many in the field of
interventional cardiology because of the wonderful live case presentations as
well as rich lectures and debates. Doctor Hijazi is known
in just about every corner of the globe, as he
has likely proctored nearly every laboratory in the world on
something like an Amplatz or ASD device, Venus P valve
(03:07):
or amplatz or PDA device. Aside from all of that,
he is a wonderfully warm and beloved figure in our
field who goes out of his way for everyone all
the time. Rather than continue to go on and on,
because certainly I could for at least twenty to thirty minutes,
I think at this time we'll move straight on to
our conversation that I had with him last week about
(03:29):
his life in times and so here we go. I'm
here now with doctor Zietta Jossey, who's kind enough to
speak with us all the way from Doha today. Z,
such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Thanks a lot for Rob. It's a pleasure to be
with you. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
It's my pleasure, so Z, I want to thank you
for joining us here on the three hundred and fiftieth
episode of the podcast. I know everybody's going to be
very excited when I announced who's going to be our guest.
You know, I wanted to really just learn a little
bit about the man we all know, the crazy guy
who's all over the world doing millions and millions of
procedures and teaching us everything. But sort of wanted to
(04:04):
start from the beginning. You know, I know you grew
up in Jordan. I was wondering if you could tell
us a little bit about your upbringing. Did you grow
up in a big city? Did you always know you
wanted to be a doctor. Who was your inspiration to
pursue medicine?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Thanks Rob, Thanks again, and first before I start, congratulations
on the three hundred and fififth anniversary. This is ruly
a milestone my head. You thank you so much for
what you well. I was born in a small town.
Well now it's not small anymore. It used to be
small called Madaba. It's about almost thirty five miles south
(04:43):
of the city of Amman, which is the capital of Jordan.
You know, you know my mom and dad. My dad
was a Korean military soldier, not an officer.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
He was in the army.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
He was actually a royal bodyguard for King Hussin, King
Husein of Jordan. My mom was a housewife, illiterate, never
went to school back then. Of course, as Jordanian family
grew in the desert. My father and my mother were
both born just outside a Man in the desert of Jordan.
(05:17):
Education especially for females was part of no no like
the unfortunately old days of Taliban. Of course, things have
changed significantly now and I lived the first two years
in a Madaba. Then because of my father's work, we
moved to Amman, the capital, in the center of the city.
(05:38):
Actually we lived there for approximately two more years, and
then we moved to another smaller section.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Of the city called Jabel and Muza.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Stayed there for about almost ten years, and then we
moved to our where we current address is the Sports City,
which was a new subsection of a man back then,
when people moved to that section, people ask them, are
you are of your mind? No electricity, no transportation, nothing,
(06:09):
And of course, within very short time period, electricity got there,
water got there. And I spent the risk of my
youth basically in that house where we built it in
nineteen sixty seven and lived in it until the day
I moved to the US in nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
So see, you're telling me that you started at it.
You're telling me that you started and you didn't even
have electricity initially at the house that you were grown
up in.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
No electricity?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Are all in the house that we had, because you know,
it was a new subsection, and of course we were
the fourth house in the Sports City where now it's
hundreds of thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
It's very crowded the area now.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
But you know, fortunately within a couple of years after that,
we had you know, power, you know, power into the
house and ethnicity. So when I used to study, I
used to actually study some in the house, but then
later I would go to a park area where there
is electricity and sit under the lamps there to study
(07:13):
until it becomes really somewhat dark, and then I used
to come home about you know, eight nine pm, you
know home.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Wow, that's very interesting, And I mean, how hard was
it to become a physician in Jordan? Is it very competitive?
And who inspired you to be a doctor?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
That's a great question, Rob, So.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I'm sure given in the US back then, and I
hope still now, to be a physician, as you know,
was the most admirable thing, the most noble thing. And
the hi Jazzy family we did not have any physician
in the family. And of course as a child, I
got sick a few times, and one of the times,
(07:58):
which was I don't recall because I was, you know,
under the age of two, I was pretty sick. And
my mom always reminds me of this story. And when
my mom or my grandmother used to get sick, they
used to take them to the doctor, and I used
to go as a child with my dad because I
was the oldest kid, and seeing the doctors there and
(08:19):
what they do for patients honestly inspired me significantly, especially
when I saw them taking care of my grandmother. And
even as a child five six years of age, my
mother would remind me that I would hold the thing
that for the koffee on the head for the men.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It looks like a statiscope.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
So I would take my dad's head and put it
on the chest of my mom listening as a statisco
So it goes back to a very young age that
I really wanted to be a doctor.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
But of course big influence my mom and dad.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Being their oldest son and no family in the physicians
in the family, and of course my father education to
sixty grade and my mom is illiterate. They wanted their
son to do something big, and you know, something big
in Jordance medicine. So for medicine in Jordan, there was
only one medical school for the entire country and admission
(09:19):
was extremely competitive. So you have among the top basically
the top one hundred student out of about sixty seventy
thousand students to be considered for medicine. So fortunately I
was among those the top fifty students in the country
and I was accepted to do medical you know, medical
(09:42):
school in Jordan in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Wow, amazing story. And Zee you go to medicine, you said,
the pediatricians and also your grandmother's doctors had inspired Did
you know when you were in medical school that you
were going to become a pediatrician and a cardiology.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I did not know that I was going to be
a pediatrician, but a cardiologist, as I was inspired by
my teacher in medical school, a guy who's still alive today.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
His name is doctor Yusuf Kussus.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Doctor Cussus was a cardiologist and probably you know back
then a cardiologist was a cardioist for everything pediatrics and about.
So doctor thus was extremely smart cardiologists. And he gave
us lectures in medical school, you know, you know where
we do cardiology, and some of the lectures were congenital
(10:38):
heart disease. And I was inspired by that individual how
he taught us a congenital heart disease. Of course there
was no intervention, there was nothing at that time, but
his lectures. I said, one day, you know what, this
looks really good. I'd like to be like him. And
then when I was in nineteen ninety eight, I was
(11:00):
fourth year, fourth yere out of six years a medical school.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
A big conference was held in a Man, Jordan.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
The Arab American Medical Association, which is at that time
was best in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
They had their annual meeting in a Man Jordan. Wow,
so American student.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I said, I'm going to go to this conference and attend,
you know, americal lectures. And one of the doctors that
I met there still alive, doctor Zudi Lebabdi. I'm sure
you know, the first one in the world to do
a war take balloon vavio plasty and the first one
to do a work Coortian agiblastic. So of course that
(11:39):
back then I did not know that he did all
these things. I knew that, you know, he was a
professor at a young age forty years of age and
gave us election on ramatic fever and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I said, Wow, I'd love to be like this guy
one day. Wow.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
So doctor Lebabdi used to love jogging, so I would
introduced myself to him, and he asked me he would
like to do jougging.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Is there a place in the city where he can go?
I said, of.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Course, I'll pick you up in my car and I'll
take you to the sports city where I lived. There
was a big jugging part and I did this for
three days and of course got to know him better.
He gave me his business card, and when he lived
he told me in the future, if you need anything,
(12:24):
you can count on me.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Wow Wow.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
And of course years gone by, and of course I
came to America in eighty four and I started with
my master's in Public Kills mph atar, but my aspiration
was more than just in pH and my advisor in
public kill, doctor Dorothy Hortsman. She sat with me and
she said, Zee, what are you going to do after
(12:50):
the MPH So I asked him, do you have any advice,
doctor Hortsman? She said, how about pediatric cardiology? You like
cardiology and you know pediatrics is good.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So I asked him where shall I do this?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
She said, well, I know the chair of pediatrics that
here in New Haven here is Go and meet him.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
His name.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Of course he passed away since then doctor Howard Pearson.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
He was one of.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
The presidents of the American Academy of Pediatrics and a
well known pediatric heematologist on cologists in the world, an
expert on sickle cell disease, and very good friend. With
Paul Newman, they established the Camp for Kids with cancer.
So I went to him and I introduced myself. So
the first thing he asked me where did he go
(13:38):
to make in school? So I said, of course, proudly
Jordan University. He took his glasses and he said, at Yale,
we don't accept foreign graduates. Yes, of course, but since
Dorothy sent you, go to the chief resident, his name
is John Limbert and see what he can do with you.
(13:59):
So I went to John and John said, well, although
you are a doctor, but we can't put you as
a doctor.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
You have to be like a third year medical student.
I said, no, prominent, So I did one week.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
He saw you know good, and he said, well, we
can put you a sub intern, so you can do
everything like the intern, except when you want to sign
orders you have to sign co sign them by the
intern on the other ward.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I said, no problem. So I did this for ten months.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Wow, and they get to know me. And when time
came to apply for residency. Of course, at that time
I knew the pediator cardiologist. I met doctor Norm Taylor,
Charlie Kleman and Billy helen Brandt and John Fee, so
they get to know.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Me very well, and they said you're gonna do pediator cardiology.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
So I right, of course, mysidency at Yale, and of
course being Yale. They would not even hint that, hey,
we're going to accept you here. They said, will apply,
you'd interview and when the matches ups come out out.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You will know.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
And of course I went to through this grueling process
of match you know, matching. Of course, when I sent
for application for interviews for residency back then, was bored
by mail, as you you may remember. So I sent
fifty requests to fifty institutions. I received thirty five applications.
(15:23):
Out of the thirty five applications, I had zo interviews.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Wow, this is froid.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
So the only interview which was guaranteed was here because
I was there. So the residency program director guarded bless
his soul, Norm Seagill, called me. He said, see what happened.
I said, well, that's what happened. No interviews, He said,
come to my office. Give me the names of the
program director. So I gave him seven names that he knew.
(15:54):
So on the phone he got me seven interviews. Wow,
including one at Charp. Of course, let me go back
to our friend doctor Lebabidie. So I called his office
to try to speak to him. Yes out he did
not take the call. And after multiple calls I'm sure
(16:15):
if he's a lie, I'm hope he's alive. He will
listen to this into review and he can tell me
if I'm right or wrong.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
But I am right.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
So I called his office and I insisted I want
to talk to him from downstairs in his hospital.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Lobby, and he said he could not help. Of course,
that broke my heart, woke my heart.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
So luckily, fortunately I matched at Yale and did my
regency at Yale as well as my fellowship, and the
rest is history. And you know, I never hold the grudges.
And that's one thing I learned in my life that
anybody that knocks my door for help, no matter whether
I need them or I don't need I'll do my best.
(17:02):
And after that there is this up to that individual
and the program that.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
But I never say sorry.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I can't wow because through my position, through your position,
you know, we are in power positions.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
We can help people if we want to.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
So if somebody when your door, help and this will
come back to you years later.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I helped a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
And I tell you people that I never met on
the phone, they hear of my name, they phone, they
call the email and you know what, I listened to them,
and I say, you know what, I was in that
position when they help help people.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I know, and I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Wow, that's an extraordinary story. I mean, so many people
who are instrumental in helping you. But then I thought
for sure you were going to send the doctor Lemabedia.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
It helped you, unfortunately did not help me at all.
And then you can see you now we are how
many years after that? For three years, I still remember
it like yesterday, and every time I mentioned it, it
really hurts me a lot because he could have helped.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
He was a big shot in our fielders. You know.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Well, let me ask you. You were at Yale, you're
pediatric cardiology fellow. How'd you decide to do interventions? I
mean it seems to me like you were born doing interventions,
but at some point you had to make that decision.
So how did that get done?
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Well, you know when you had two hours in your
division Charlie Kleman and Bill hilen Brand, and what when
I was a fellow, so you know, as you started
choreology as general pediat carreology. And I was fortunate enough
to be at Yale with Bill helen Brand.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And Bill was.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Among the private club in America for the interventional carreology.
As you remember, there were five people in North America
that really shaped the field of interventional choreology. You know, Bill,
Jim Luck, Chuck Mullins, God bless his soul, Larry Latson,
and Lie Benson. These are the five people that had
(19:16):
the devices that people in America looked at them to
for you know, opinion, for adventure, for anything. And when
you have Bill at Yale, you'll be out of your
mind to say, well, I'm going to go elsewhere or
I'm going to do echo choreography. Although Charlie was very powerful,
(19:36):
but the therapeutic aspect of interventional choreology, that's what grew
to me. I have the nature of a surgeon that
I want to do something and see the result now,
not diagnose and take this or do this and that.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Charlie he taught us a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
And I am indebted a lot to Charlie because I
learned so many things from him, not just in medicine,
but in life, in manners, in generosity and everything. The
most generous person you can meet in your life was Charliekumigel.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, I was very lucky to have worked with Charlie
and with Bill, so I certainly know about what you're speaking.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know two people.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
So Bill, you know, never invited a fellow out for dinner.
I was the first one to invite out to the
most expensive restaurant in the New Haven and both us
a nice gift.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I still have.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
It because we developed a bond and we became very
very close, of course, to this dead.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yes, yes, well, I mean there's so many aspects of
your career, and for those in the audience, doctor Johnsy
is nice enough to speak with us. It's seven hours
ahead in Toha, so it's pretty late at night there,
and it's very kind of you to speak with us.
So you finish up your fellowship ze you go to Tofts.
How did you make that decision to go there? That's
a tough I've often wondered about that because you've got
(21:01):
this behemoth about a mile down the road and you
really made quite an inroad there. How did you decide
to do that? That's quite remarkable.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
So, as you know, Jim came to Yale to practice
Bill with VSD Claudion and.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I was the fellow at that time.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I was fortunate enough to meet Jim Lock, and of
course Bill and Charlie introduced me to Jim back then.
So when I finished my fellowship, Tufts was looking for
intellivinential colliologists and the chief you know him, O our.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Good friend David Fulton.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
So he interviewed me and he liked what I have
to say and he offered me the job.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
So before I took the job, I went, of course to.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Boston children to Jim to tell him that doctor Locke,
you know this job, and he encouraged me.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
He said, absolutely, no problems are all tafety job.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
So I took the job, and after that it turned
out different.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
So, you know, I trained with Bill.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I could do PDA closure, I could do you know
whatever other interventions, but there were no devices approved in
the US, and the only person in Boston that has
access to, for example, the ruction and umbrella was Jim.
So I had a patient with a large PDA and
so I called Jim. I said, doctor Luck, I'd love
(22:22):
to invite you to come to Tufts so that we
can do a PDA closure together with the umbrella. He
said absolutely, So he came and he did not screw up.
He sat in the control room. I did the entire
procedure from A to Z with excellent results. And you know,
obviously I on a radium, I you know, and paid
him on raarium, which is a standard for our profession,
(22:45):
and thank.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You and everything. Then about a few months later I
had another case.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I invited him and he declined, so I knew that
that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So you know, I find no problem. And in nineteen
eighty five, a guy.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
By the name of Gladwin Daths, a cardiologist adult coliogist
in Minneapolis, Minnesota, invented the angel wings.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yes I remember that.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
And called me and he said, Zee, I'd like you
to be the national PI on the angel wings.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Of course I did everything.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I did the first case in the world in Boston
in June nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Five, and of course big news.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
We put it in the media. Of course, the news
got to Boston children. So there was a lot of
friction now that this little place, the floating hospital, competing
with you know, the begem At, you know, Bob the children. Well,
you know, I did not pay attention to this. I said,
you know what, do a good job and patients would come.
So I started getting patients from every corner in the
(23:54):
country because I had the angel Wings, and then when
the angel Wings fell apart, I became the PI on
the Amblatza and I did the worst case in North
America May nineteen, nineteen ninety seven, and that device brought
me hundreds of patients from every corner in the US
(24:16):
and abroad. So when they come and land the logan,
they don't go to Barston Children, They'll come to the Floating.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So obviously doctor Locke.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Realized this, and of course in nineteen ninety seven I
started PICKS, and I'll come back.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
To Picks and I'll tell you the story of Picks.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
So more notoriety, more fame for Tufts and the Floating.
So he decided, you know what, I've got to break
that program. So requickly negotiation between doctor Fulton and Jim
Locke to acquire the group without my knowledge at all,
(24:54):
and we finished Picks, which was a huge success. And
a week later David come to me and says, see,
I'm going to tell you the news. He said, what
blah blah blah blah, we are moving to Boston children
five cardiologists. I said, what about me? He said, Doctor
Locke will talk to you, but you're welcome to come.
(25:16):
So I said, come as what. So Jim talked to
me and offered me to come with the group, but
as a staff cardogist.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I said, well, no, I won't come as a staff cardiogist.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
The only position I will I will accept is director
of the Calf Lab. He said no, of course, because
the stand was the calf Lab black, which I respect
and I understand. And I became by default the chief
of pediatric cardiology at TUTS.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Right, So you were like the lone man's standing.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Basically myself and two other guys.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
So I went rooted five other cardiologists to rebuild the
entire program, and we became stronger than before, more patients,
more devices, the vsd K, the PDA devices, you remember
you wrote the seminal paper on that, and more and
more patients. And Jim would say, oh, see, there's a
(26:05):
job in Atlanta. There's a job in this as a gym.
When I find the right job, I'll take it. I
know I leave Boston, but I'll leave it for the
right job. And of course, in nineteen ninety nine a
good job came at the University of Chicago as chief
of Periata Cardiology and that's when I lived in Boston.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
So that's the story of Boston and the Tufts, and
you know the relationship.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
And of course, as you know now, unfortunately the floating
ceased to exist because Boston children bought the entire program
to kill the competition in the city.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I see, you know, I was interested. You mentioned your
extraordinary role with amplants or devices. I mean, that's how
I think of you. I think that's when I first
got to know you. And I'm wondering, like, how did
you get to meet Pert Amplats and how did that go?
I mean, it always seemed to be a very close
(27:02):
relationship you had with him, and it's like how did
that developed?
Speaker 3 (27:07):
Yeah, so that's a great question and a great part
of the history.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Rob.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
So in nineteen eighty five, we had a sci meeting
I think it was in.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
A Boulder, Colorado, somewhere in Colorado, and I was chairing
a session and.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
The session was on ASD closure and doctor Rao cmraw
was giving his data on the button device, and suddenly,
from the back of the room, a gentleman stood up
and said, bullshit, sorry for the language, and we can
(27:46):
cover it.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And I looked back and I did not know at
that time doctor Amplas.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
We all heard the name and had a picture of
the guy, but never really talked to the guy. So
I said, you know, excuse me, you introduce the people
to the doctor Umplants.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
They said. So the session finished and we had coffee break.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So I said, in the coffee break with doctor Umplatz,
I said, doctor Rumblats, I mean you were demolished the
guy and you said, bullshit device.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Do you have anything better?
Speaker 3 (28:16):
And he pulls out of his pocket the Unplatza device
and he shorted to I said, doctor Umplas, this is.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Too good to be true. You know, he pulls it
stritched reforms.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I said, we've got to bring this device to America,
he said, and did the device exists at all?
Speaker 1 (28:33):
This was just like a prototype you were holding in
your hand.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
It was a prototype. But he did a couple of
cases in brettish Lava before that, I say, got it.
The first two human cases. We're done with Joseph Masora
in bratish Lav and I'll come to this shortly.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And for those from the audience, Doctor Amplatz was a radiologist,
not a carniologist, but an extraordinarily.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
What's that again, A cardiovascular revie argist. I'll tell you
a little bit more about Court now. So Court said,
you bring it to America. So I come back. I
was in Boston and I contacted Court. He put me
in touch with his son in law. Back then that
he's not his Sonyla anymore. They got divorced a guy
(29:21):
by the name of Frank Gujon So remember a platz
g Gujon Law and the other Mike Effermov, the engineer,
Russian engineer, Russian American of course, but was raised in
Russia and came.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
To America and he was the engineer. So the three
of them established a GA.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And for those in the audience, Aga was the name
of the company that manufactured and designed the Amplatzer device,
which ultimately was purchased by another company. Just for those
who may not be as familiar.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
So I said to them, okay, guys, we need to
bring the device to America. We need to do a
trial in the But before I do this, I need
to try a couple of cases.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Wherever you guys have me. This is one Bratislava.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
So I flew from Boston to Vienna, and Vienna they
picked me up by a car and we drove forty
minutes to Bratislava, which is the capital of Slovak Republic,
where Joseph Massoro was waiting for me, was the most
gracious host. We did three ASDs and one PDA before
three pm in the afternoon. As you remember around with
(30:30):
the rational umbrella with the card you see, you do
a case, you spend the whole day because you need
to figure this and the arm of this umbrella the
other arm. The plaza was so damn easy. Every time
they can Harry could do it. So I did the
cases and I wrote the manuscript the First Human Cases
(30:52):
on the plane coming back to Boston. Submitted the manuscript
and it was published, and of course I put back
to Joseph Massola, the first author, because he was the
first one to do the cases.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But I wrote the paper and we published it, and
when we.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Landed, I called Kurt and Frank. I said, guys, we've
got to do this. We have to bring it to America.
So we contacted the FDA. Our relationship was very quid
with them, and they said submit a protocol. We wrote
the protocol, submitted the protocol and they approved us to
do the first case in nineteen ninety seven May nineteen,
(31:30):
nineteen ninety seven. And Kurt, for those of you who
don't know Kurt, as Rob said, at that time, in
nineteen seventy two, he was seventy nine ninety five.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
In nineteen ninety seven, he was seventy two years of
age Magen and he was at.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
The top of his invention abilities. So Kurt came to
attend case. We did the case, and of course the
news was all over, you know, the TV media and
stuff like that, and of course we did the trial,
(32:11):
took it to the FDA approval in September ten, two
thousand and one, one day before September eleven.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I never forget that day because.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
A lot of my colleagues decided to stay in DC
to celebrate. I had to come to Chicago to for
media interviews for the trial with the Chicago Tribune and
interviewed and during the interview, my secretary pulled me aside
and she said, come and watched the TV and we
saw the horrible news of September eleven, and you know,
(32:43):
the device became approved and then the PDA, the VSD
and the pffour device. So doctor Amplaz very inventive human
being developed so many things and we are indebted to
his pioneering efforts. And by the way, Rob, this year
is the anniversary fiftieth anniversary of the first trans cathit asd.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Clodore, performed by doctor Terry D. King from Monroe, Louisiana,
and we.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Are hosting him at Pigs to commemorate this anniversary, and
you are into reviewing him at that event. Him and
the other guy that you interviewing is doctor Philip one
half on the twenty fifth anniversary for the first trans
cathit heart Van not just haalmonic palmonic heart Van. Philip
(33:34):
did the first case in well it's two thousand, but
actually I scrubbed with Philippe on his second case in
nineteen ninety nine in Paris before.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
He moved to London.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Wow. Wow, quite remarkable. And for those in the audience,
Doctor hit Johnsy and other course organizers were kind enough
to invite me to speak with both gentlemen, and so
we're going to have that on the podcast. First of all,
you should come to the Picks course at the end
of August. I'll have a link to that in the
podcast show notes this week. But I also for those
(34:09):
of you who aren't able to make it, We're gonna
it's gonna be very exciting to speak with doctor King,
as doctor Jozzi said, the first ASD international cardiologist, and
of course doctor Bonhoffer, who is notable for his extraordinary
work in valves. You know, the We could spend four hours.
It's amazing to me your memory of things. You have
the exact date. I can't remember what I had for
(34:31):
lunch yesterday, and tell me the exact date that all
these things happen. It's really remarkable.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
It's you know, Rob, you know when you do things
for the first time, you know the first you for example,
the Hart valve and palmonic in North America, I did
that when I was at University of Chicago in December
two thousand and six. So these events, it's hard for
the individual to forgive them.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
You know, Ze, we could go in a million diactions.
I don't want to keep you very very well, but
I think that with all the things you're known for
in cardiology, I would say that the Picks course is
certainly top among the many many accomplishments that you've done.
And I'm wondering if you could speak to the audience
about how did you have this idea? And I'm guessing
(35:17):
this was a massive undertaking initially. I mean, I know
it's a massive undertaking every year, but the first year
or two must have been very, very challenging. How did
you have this idea and how difficult was it to
get it off the ground. I want to say I'm
proud that I was at the second picks, but I
did not meant the first.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So rob So for those of you who don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
And aside from being a pediatic slash congital cordiologist, I
also invented with Numid a colony stint so. In nineteen
ninety three, ninety four, ninety five, ninety six, ninety seven
to two thousand, I was traveling the world doing colnery
stinting with my stint s partning adult cordiologist, and I
(36:02):
became very close a friend with Marty Leon who most
of you know him or should know him. Marty is
a pioneer interventional carlleologist actually at Columbia in New York
City beside you, and Marty runs a course CALLEDCT Yes.
And also through my travels in Europe to pract European colleologist,
(36:26):
there was a course there initially writed with them. Then
in two loose there was another one and in Madrid.
And these are three courses. Move to what we call
today EuroPCR. So now there are two big courses in
the world EuroPCR in Europe and TCT in the US.
So I said, we need a course for congital heart
(36:49):
disease for pediatic carllology. So in nineteen einety six I approached.
First person to approach was doctor Jim Luck. So I said, Jim,
I have this idea, and I have of course letters, correspondence, documentation,
and I faxed him the idea and everything, and of
(37:09):
course his response, Nope, this will fail miserably. But he
was kind enough to advise me to contact a European
guy and call John. What's the name of the guy?
Used to be in Rotterdam. Shoot, his name is Skips.
My I'll get this, no not of, no, not taps
(37:32):
of he used to be at Rotterdam, at Sophia Children's Hospital,
I'll get I'll get to him.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
He will.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
So I sent him a fax and of course never
responded to the facts. So I went in nineteen ninety
six to Rotterdam to attend the.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Es, the European Staty, the s SC yes, and I
him right there.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
So I said, John, I sent you a facts blah
blah blah about this. He said, we'll send it again.
So I sent him the facts again to ask him
to be, of course co directly with me for this
new course. And of course he said, no, it will fail.
So I called you know, I said, you know what,
let me call Billy and Charlie.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
You know my mentors. So I called him.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
They said, the great idea. Yes, we will partner with you,
with one condition. The finances is your responsibility. I said,
no problems. I am confident we will not lose money.
So September nineteen ninety seven, the first PIX meeting at
(38:40):
the Marriott Long Wharf in Boston. The total number of
attendees with the faculty was eighty seven. Okay, eighty seven.
But even with that, we did not lose money. We
we broke even. And then the second meeting was also
from Boston, nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And then of course in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
I moved to Chicago, so I moved the course with
me to Chicago. And of course Bill and I we're
the only course directors and we had many course called directors. Now,
of course Demien took big part on the meeting and
he basically runs the entire program.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
With the other course directors and co directors.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
We have great, great really directors and co directors that
they held a lot.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
I was listening. He's speaking of course of Damian Kenny
from Ireland whose course director.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yes, that's right. So the course has really blossomed.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
We had been doing it every year and on a
couple of occasions we did it outside the US. We
did it in Toronto with the World Congress. We did
it in guness Aaris with the World Congress. We did
it in Kerns, Australia with the World Congress two.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
We did it in Cape Town in two thousand and
third team with the World Congress. So really every World
Congress we partner with the group there and go from there.
And for the last two years or so, now we
do an.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Edition in Istanbul, Turkey.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
So twenty twenty four we had picks Istambul in April,
and in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
We're going to do also Picks Istanbul.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
I partnered with Mario Carminatti who used to be running
the IPC course. So the IPC and Picks merged into
one meeting in Europe every other year in April, and
then the pics US course is this year as Rob
mentioned this in Chicago August twenty five to twenty eight.
And we have a fellow's course, so we have fifty
(40:43):
pediatric Caldig fellows. We fly them, feed them, teach them,
house them all for free so that we can take
care of our future generations.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
That's really remarkable. You know. See we've only touched on
so many of your many acomplishments. You've done so much.
I'm wondering what do you view as your most important
achievement or accomplishment in your very long career, which by
the way, is not over, but so far.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Well, you know, there are so many things that I
am very proud being part of it. And I was
given the opportunity because people believed in me. And I mean,
you know, the first one, of course, was Billy Hillenbrand
to have believed in me and to accept me with
him under his wings, as well as Charlie, because without
their help I would not be sitting here. These two
(41:36):
gentlemen shaped the way I am in every aspect and
I am indebted to both of them and we are
very good friends with them.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Of course, Charlie passed away in twenty eleven.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
So.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
The ASD Claudier, I consider myself very fortunate that I
have met Kurt Umplatz at that meeting. That why I
tell people go to meetings, guys, you learn something, but
more important networking ideas industry is there. Engineers are there,
so you've got to go to meetings to network and
(42:12):
meet the people. So I met the right people. They
gave me the right opportunity and I took it and
I busted my bud for that. And one company I
need to acknowledge that really helped me a lot with
a lot of innovations is numid Al to our senior
and now of course to our junior, a small company
(42:33):
in upstate New York, Coptinton family company that believe in
us in physicians because our ideas are so important. But
without their skills as engineers, we will never see the
light of these devices. So NEWMD has really worked very hard,
(42:54):
and I can tell you both as are alive and
the relationship is excellent.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
When they come uh to to.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Visit me to do something, we go to the animal
lab do the work and on this spot do prototypes,
modifications until you get your final prototype to test in
the humans with the the eptostomy catacters, the Zmied cataters,
my stent that you know, the Corry extent, and the
list goes on. So it's really these companies, so a
(43:23):
Sdclaudial balloon, engine, Plastic, the valves, transcattle valve because as
I said, I was fortunate enough again because of Newman,
because before metronic.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Boat uh the MELODYE valve.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Neuman developed the valve with the with the philippvan Hoffer,
and I was the second person to implant the valve
with Philip in Paris. John She of course, as you know,
his pioneer work with with Noumid with the CP stint.
So all of these milestones is important, and of course
the last thing was the Venus uh P valve.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
You know. Doctor chall On myself went to China in twenty.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Twelve to work with the engineers there and I did
the animal work all of it in Chicago and did
the first in man or human in twenty thirteen in China.
So a lot of opportunities that I took a chance
and people believed in it, so it's really I mean,
did it to so many people who gave me the opportunity,
(44:25):
and most of these innovations paid off and we use
many of these in their clinical practice. Of course, there
are other innovations that only patents on papers.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
We have yet to see them in an enlightenment. You know,
that's life.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
You know, see Mike Prrecton saying you are partially retired
now or are you not retired?
Speaker 3 (44:46):
So it's on paper and on pay scale. Yes, partially
retired because as some of you know, twenty fourteen January,
I moved to Dljakata to establish new hospital, Cindra Medicine,
which I'm very proud to say, Yes, I recruited majority
of the physicians at the hospital, not just in pediatic colology,
(45:08):
because I was also fortunate to be the chief medical officer,
chairman of pediatrics and all of this. And my wife
did not live in Dauha. She lived in San Diego
and she would commute and obviously this took a big
tour on her and me, and finally she said, well
either this or that, so she made the grounds. We decided,
(45:30):
you know what, let me partially retire to do two
weeks a month in and the two weeks in San Diego.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
No job.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
But of course when I come to San Diego, I'm
never off the laptop and programs and visits and trips.
So I still work a lot, but you know, at
least at least two weeks a month.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I don't have to report to anybody at all.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
So yes, So another lesson there, Happy wife, happy life always,
And tell me a little bit about your family life.
So you're married obviously for many, many years.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Tell me about my wife. My wife, Marie.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
We met when I was a medical student in Jordan
in nineteen eighty I was a naughty boy.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
She was a flight attendant.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
But we met on the in the swimming pool, harassed
here until she looked at me, and we dated and
we got married in nineteen eighty three in Jordan, and
we have one son, Tarek.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Graduated, went to a.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
High school, to the best school in Chicago and one
of the best in the country, the Lab School.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Obama kids daughters.
Speaker 3 (46:41):
You know, Sasha and Malia, they went there and that's
where we met, you know, Obama, the president and his wife.
His wife also I met because she was the vice
president of my hospital of University of Chicago. So we
met both of them in different functions for the school
and for me different functions with the Missus Obama as
VP for government affairs. And he went to college University
(47:05):
of Arizona. Of course, did not want anything to do
with medicine, so he did business and finance and graduated
from University of Arizona in twenty ten. So the first
job he got was through my help, of course, with
a medical device company PFM, you know PFM from Germany.
They have a branch in Diego. Then he worked one year,
(47:26):
one and a half year. Then he calls, he says, Mom, Dad,
I hate my job. So he said, okay, what was
plan B. He wanted to be a hydroponic farmer. Wow,
I did not oh at that time, what was hydroponic farming?
Of course we got upset, but you know, finally we said, fine,
farmer farming. So he did about six and a half
seven years farming. Then he calls again and he says, well,
(47:49):
I want to be a doctor. He did, you know,
business and finance. And that's the great thing about America, the.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Opportunities they give to the individual.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
So he went to medical school, graduated last May and
he's the first year of Family Medicine president in San Diego.
He has met then he married Darren, his wife, and
they have a son who will be two years in August.
Third his name is Owen Max Jersey, so wow wow.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
So you are a grandfather, so that's another And where
do they live? Again?
Speaker 3 (48:22):
The they live in San Diego, about thirty five minutes
from where we live, which is good because he went
to school in New Mexico in a town called Las Crusas,
and to get to that town you have to fly
to il Paso, drive fifteen minutes from il Paso to
that town. So thank god. Now they live in San Diego.
We can see them whenever I am there, just half
(48:44):
an hour you are there.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
I'm sure that your grandson is also a big draw,
only working two weeks. But well see, you know a
lot of young people tend to listen to the podcast.
I think you're probably one of the most productive people
I've ever known, or ever even heard of. How do
you have any advice for people on how to manage
(49:07):
some balance in your life? I mean, it seems to
me like I think you've I always think of you
as the highest energy guy I know, But like, how
how did you? How did you balance all these extraordinary things?
I mean, you travel tremendously, You've been innovated a million times,
so many different things. You have the PIS course. That
PIX course alone could take someone an entire year. It's
(49:28):
a schedule every year. How did you do all of
that and still still have your wife love you?
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Unfortunately, I have to tell the young people on the podcast,
Unfortunately there's no balance.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
It's one of two things.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Either you want to be famous, innovative and people know you,
or you can be just a good doctor, take care
of your family and your practice and you're successful, no
questions about this. But if if you want to be
that individual sacrifice, and unfortunately, the sacrifice I paid was family.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
My son when he grew.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
Up, When the occasional days that I took him to
school and I tried to strike a conversation, he would
look at me like this, who the hell are you?
Speaker 2 (50:22):
We'd even talk to me.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
Obviously, now he understands that I was doing all of
this for family. But unfortunately, so if I want to
give somebody an advice, now, of course, work hard, bust you,
but whatever time you can car for your family, do it.
Do not ignore them at all, because they are the
unknown soldier.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Because my success.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
Not just from me alone, my wife and my son,
because without their support, I would not be sitting here.
So try to spend whatever equality time with your family
and the opportunities you get. Die for it, kill for it,
do whatever it takes for it so that you can
finish your project before time. Fellows they know me, Demien
(51:10):
can tell you, and and other fellows. I give them
a deadline for any manuscript or any project. If the
project is not ready by that day, they will not
receive any project. So fortunately all the fellows they knew
that and they all delivered. You know, you can ask
Ralph Demian. While you know all these fellows, they are
(51:30):
all leaders now in their countries and in their field.
So working hard is the key, and being true to
yourself and to the profession and to your patient. Spend
time with your patient, listen to them, and spend extra time.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
They appreciate this more than anything else.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Well as expected great wisdom from you, indeed, and I'm
sure people who are listening are going to take a
lot out of this, particularly hearing it from someone like yourself. Well, see,
I really can't thank you enough. First of all for
being on the podcast, of course, and taking almost an
hour of your time is really extremely kind of you.
And of course I want to thank you for always
(52:11):
being so supportive to me. I barely see you through
the years, but you've always been exactly the way you've described.
You ask Zee for something and he says yes one
hundred percent of the time. It's not even a question.
You have to be careful because he's so nice that
he'll say yes to anything. So I really am extraordinarily appreciative.
You've always been very supportive of me, and I'm very
appreciative of it, as I am sure many many, many
(52:33):
people who are listening to this podcast are going to
have exactly the same feeling. So thank you for everything
you've meant to our careers, but also to our field
and to our patients. There are literally millions of people
who benefit from all of the efforts you've done over
the last thirty or forty years and continue to do,
and so congratulations to you on all of.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
These all of this, Thank you for this podcast and
for having me tonight.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
It's just really a privilege, an honor.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
To to be on this Thank you very much. Well,
I'm not going to add much here, as I think
doctor Hijazi is clearly a most eloquent speaker. To me,
there are two aspects of his life that really came
through loud and clear for me from this interview. First,
he's someone who recognizes the role of help that he
received in his life and how small kindnesses and sources
(53:25):
of inspiration from mentors and teachers like doctor CUSOs in
Jordan or doctor Horseman or Pearson or helen Brand or
Kleinman who made important differences in his life. And he's
made it a goal of his life to pass on
the same kind of kindness to others by trying to
help just about anyone he can. I do think there's
(53:45):
an important lesson there. The second was his extraordinary candor
and reminding us that one really can't do it all,
and the notion of having balance in one's life when
you care for children and adults with congel heart disease
is going to necessarily mean that there are going to
be shortcomings. And it reminds me of another podcaster who's
famous for saying that you can have anything but not everything.
(54:09):
And I think doctor Hejazi in similar vein is saying
you can do anything, but perhaps not everything. Choose wisely.
I'd again like to thank doctor Herjazi for taking time
from his extremely busy schedule to speak with us very
late at night in Doha this week to conclude this
special three hundred and fiftieth milestone episode of Pedihart Pediatric Cardiology.
(54:31):
Today with Professor Ziad Hejazi, we end with the wonderful
Chinese tenor Shi Yiji, who's professor of music at the
Chinese University of Hong Kong. Mister Yigi sings all over
the world and is known mostly for his work in
the belcanto repertoire with composers like Donizetti, Rossini or Bellini,
where the composer asks for a tenor who has a
(54:51):
magnificent upper range. Mister Gyigi has sung already in most
of the operatic houses of the world, and he's also
well known for singing and popularizing Chinese art songs.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Today we hear.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Him singing the difficult and inspiring aria a mes Ami
from Donizetti's Daughter of the Regiment, and this aria is
considered particularly challenging because of the very large number of
high seas that the composer challenges the tenor with I
think you will agree that mister Yuji hits this one
out of the park in this live performance on stage
from seven years ago. Thanks once again for listening to
(55:25):
this week's podcast, and thanks for joining me for the
last three hundred and fifty. Finally, thanks to doctor ziata
Jasi for sharing his life with us. I hope we'll
have a good.
Speaker 6 (55:35):
Week AHEADA so bad.
Speaker 4 (56:00):
Try this stop say sign say so, sort of flosc
time meal, moy ti ebody, tryst say so and s
(56:39):
so so first bortime.
Speaker 7 (57:00):
Sh ssure hey Sam school.
Speaker 4 (57:08):
Brost men money or I'm not your head the star ship.
Speaker 7 (57:30):
Sure he Sam not si senor tied mio seen s
tired money
Speaker 2 (57:46):
Me
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com