August 29, 2025 • 39 mins
This year is the 50th anniversary of the first transcatheter ASD closure in a human. To celebrate this achievement, this week we air a live interview from PICS 2025 in Chicago (conducted 8/26/25) with living interventional cardiology legend Dr. Terry King speaking about the events surrounding his landmark intervention as the first person to ever perform a transcatheter ASD closure with his partner, surgeon Dr. Noel Mills. In this one on one interview, Dr. King discusses how he came up with this idea with Dr. Mills and how he found a patient in which to proceed. He reviews what 'informed consent' was in 1975 and also how he and Dr. Mills accurately estimated ASD size in an era that preceded 2D echocardiography. Dr. King speaks about the role of family in his life and offers advice to the next generation. Finally, he shares with us what he is up to today and why he does not believe in retirement. Prepare to be excited and inspired by this wonderful figure in our field.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to Pdiheart Pediatric Cardiology Today. My name is doctor
Robert Pass and I'm the host of this podcast. I
am Professor of Pediatrics at the Icon School of Medicine
at Mount Sinai, where I'm the chief of Pediatric Cardiology
and the co director of the Children's Heart Center. Welcome
to this three hundred and fifty third episode of Pdiheart.
I hope everybody enjoyed last week's episode on the topic
of adult congenital heart disease, in which you spoke with
(00:38):
doctor Katia Bravo Jims about the concept of why people
choose or don't choose to become adult congenital specialists. For
those of you are interested in this fascinating and important topic,
I'd recommend you to take to listen to last week's
episode three fifty two. As I say most weeks, if
you'd like to get in touch with me, my email
is easy to remember. It's Pdiheart at gmail dot com.
(01:00):
This week, I'm going to be playing for you an
interview that I conducted at the Pediatric Interventional CANT SYMPOSIU.
I'm twenty twenty five, just this past week in Chicago,
and I'll be speaking with doctor Terry King. Doctor Terry
King is one of the greats in the field of
pediatric cardiology and particularly interventional cardiology. Rather than discuss doctor
(01:21):
King right here, instead, what I'm going to do is
play a brief introduction from doctor Hijossi at the PICKS
meeting this week. Following his brief introduction, I will briefly
introduce doctor King and then you'll hear our conversation in
its entirety.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I hope all of you know who is doctor King.
Doctor King is a great colleague, mentor friend, you name it,
and of course pioneer. His seminal work in the seventies
really paved the way to what we do nowadays and
(01:59):
to what not just us interventional cardiology. He ventured inside
the heart and did the first glan scatter closure of
aciptal defect. So I'm not gonna steal any of the
thunder of doctor pass. He will interview him here and
hopefully he'll give you a chance of the towards the
(02:20):
end to ask questions from the audience to doctor King.
So kindly, please, can we have a seat and pay
attention to the moderator, Doctor Robert pass who will do
the interview right now.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Thank you, Rob, Thank you, Thanks all.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Let's say I'm gonna sit down in just a moment,
but I just want to add doctor Hejazi's wonderful introduction
and for those of you who don't know, doctor King
is obviously one of the true greats in the field
of pediatric cardiology and particularly interventional cardiology. For those who
don't know, he was born in Baytown, Texas, and matriculated
(03:03):
at the University of Texas. Following this, he chose to
pursue medicine at the University of Texas and earned his
MPT degree in nineteen sixty five after only two years
and nine months. I'd love to know how you did that.
He completed his pediatric internship at the University of Texas
and then moved to Duke for residency and fellowship, working
(03:23):
there in training from July of nineteen sixty six to
July of nineteen seventy and following this he served two
years in the Air Force. For that, we thank you, sir,
and then joined the Oxnar Clinic in part because of
the support he fell from doctor Mills, who was a
cardiac surgeon and was apparently also very interested in the
concept of closure of holes in the heart, and we'll
(03:44):
learn a little bit about that in a moment. Doctor
King and doctor Mills worked very hard with a machinist
in Baton Rouge, Louisiana until they came up with the device.
And the reason that we're speaking with him today is
because this is the fiftieth anniversary of the time that
he received a patent for their umbrella ASD device. And
in that same year, fifty years ago, doctor King and
(04:07):
his colleagues closed the first ASD in.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The cardiac calflab of all time. And this exciting event was.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Covered all over the news globally and made doctor King
an overnight sensation and he was invited worldwide to speak
on this. And following this, in nineteen seventy eight, he
moved to Monroe, Louisiana from Oxner, where he developed a
nicu in apicuu as well as a calflab, and he
also established a Ronald MacDonald House there which is really
remarkable to provide for the families of all the patients there.
(04:38):
And he continued his work as a cardiologist's entire adult life,
caring for hundreds of thousands of children in Louisiana, and
I was surprised to learn, and we'll speak a little
bit about this, that you own a cattle ranch with
last count over eight hundred and fifty cattle, and also
a very successful restaurant tour, which is really remarkable and
(04:59):
perhaps most important. Doctor King is a devoted family man.
He's married for many decades, has five children, and I
believe at last count, I read fifteen grandchildren, all right, good,
And he's won countless awards, including the Picks Pioneer Award
in two thousand and seven, and so it is absolutely
a great honor. And I wish to thank Siodd and
(05:20):
Damien for the very kind orfer to speak briefly with
him today. So Doctor King, try to do this seated
down here together. So I guess you know, as I said,
this is the fiftieth anniversary of the time that you
did your first extraordinary achievement with where you closed an
(05:42):
ASD for the first time in a human with your partner,
doctor Mills, and we all know that there had to
have been a lot that went before that, and I'm
wondering if you could share with us when did you
first have the idea of closing an ASD or a
hole in the heart, And how did you know that
or learned that doctor Mills apparently had a very similar
(06:03):
interest to you and pursuing this real pipe dream. And
I wondered also, what were some of the bigger struggles
in the process leading up to the actual day when
you did that first closure.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Well, I first thought of this as my second year
of training at Duke, and my chief, as you'll hear tomorrow,
asked me to do another year. And I wasn't really
that slow, but he wanted me to do research. And
I didn't really ever think about that, but he promised
(06:38):
me if I would, it would make a difference.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
And so I did it.
Speaker 6 (06:43):
And I thought of this possibility, but in spite of
anybody I would talk with, it was no. And let
me put this in the background. Prior to this, the
surgeons and across the world spent two and a half
decades trying to develop a way that they could look
(07:07):
at the heart so non beating heart.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
To close ASD.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
So you can imagine when I started talking about this.
This was about sixteen years after John Gibbon closed the
first fixed the first person on the heart lung machine
in fifty three so this was really way out there
from everybody's opinion, and my colleagues that didn't have any
(07:34):
opinions except it can't be done. And in the Air
Force I had had an experience which I'll talk about tomorrow,
but we had a child that was hydrosophatic and had
embolized pudn's captor. In all four cases prior to that
went to surgery. And so I don't want to share
(07:58):
too much about it because we'll talking about this tomorrow.
But this was a pivotal event which I'll discuss tomorrow,
because it made me think for sure.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
We could do potentially repair of ASD.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
And this is towards the end of my Air Force career,
and I lay awake one morning thinking what's small enough
to pass through a catt but large enough to close
a hole? And it dawned on me it was simple,
just an umbrella. Well, the next break was when I
went to Auxner and I'd been interviewed there when doctor
Oxen called me, I said, look, I'm not a city boy.
(08:34):
I grew up in the country and I wasn't really
key to being a big city. But anyway, that's when
I met Noah Mills and he was working with posting
for BSDs and he was trying to figure out a
way he could manage this without surgery.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Well, that got us started.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
And I had an uncle up at LSU who was
an electrical engineering professor, and he helped us, and a
lot of things happened in there along the way, concuse me,
along the way that allowed us to progress to April.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Eighth, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 6 (09:12):
And I don't really want to share much of that
because I'm sharing it tomorrow. But the key thing here,
I think was I had a person, Noel Mills, who
was willing to rest risk his career to get involved
in this, and I had an institution that fully supported
(09:33):
it all the way from ount in Oxnor Senior to
John Oxner and the hospital component. They were willing to
risk their careers and so a lot of people stand
tall here, not me per se by myself, but with
a lot of other people. And I think that had
(09:57):
I not.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Had that support, I would not have done it. Of course, Wow,
really remarkable.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
It's so interesting to hear about the importance of mentors
in your life, because, of course people think of you
as a great mentor to so many people but perhaps
it's because you yourself had had excellent mentors as a
young person. You know, I was wondering, you know, although
the obvious benefits of avoiding surgery and bypass were clear,
(10:27):
given the novelty and the unknown aspects of what you
were doing, I wondered, as I thought about our talk today,
how did you convince a patient to agree to participate
in this research and undergo a catheter based approach when
nobody on planet Earth had ever had that before.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
Well, she didn't want to have a scar on her chest.
And it was interesting when I was thinking about this.
When I was at in the Air.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Force, I used to run every night.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
And I continued that when I got to Oxtar, and
interesting enough, I said, God, let me do this so
girls don't have to have a sternotomy scar. And she
did not want to have sternotomy. And today I'm still
in awe of her courage and she refuse. You should
(11:27):
have seen the permit, the signature acquisition that day that
they signed, the attorneys recordings. It was really something to see.
But she was steadfast. She was not going to have
a sternotomy.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
I was wondering, what's it informed con something look like
in nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
Well, it was a couple of pages, but there was
all sorts of attorneys there witness and it was all recorded,
and we went over, you can die with this, you
can die with this.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I'm going to do this.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
But you had actually done animal data before this, right,
this wasn't the first time you had closed an ASD
in animal, at least or a mammal.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
I did at the end before we did the procedure.
There were three prototypes and the second prototype, as they'll
hear tomorrow, I actually worked very well, but I ran
into heartworms.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I thought every time I turned.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Around, I faced some new challenge, and we closed one
one night, and the very next time I couldn't get
the device closed, and so it was heartworms. So one
of the vets said, let's go to greyhounds. So I
went to Greyhounds, and I'll talk more about that tomorrow.
(12:43):
And then we got involved with Edwards Laboratory and the
third prototype. I did twenty nine straight dogs one hundred
percent successfully with the new prototype. And then we went to.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
The humans and doctor King, did you do this with
Doctor Mills? Was he in the room? Was he actually
scrubbed in or were you doing it? And he was
kind of like your surgical backup.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
You mean when we did the human Yes, no, he
was right there. We were ready prepared to do open
heart surgery. And I'll comment on this. I can't tell
you the heightened anxiety I had that day and heightened
(13:28):
anxiety no one Mills had that day because when unlocked
the device, he asked me three times is it locked?
And I know for sure he was thinking, if that's
not locked, I'm in deep alligators, then I'm gonna be
doing open heart surgery.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
So he was right across the table from me.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Wow. Wow, that sounds just remarkable. I'm wondering do you
still have contact with that first patient?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
I do? I do. She is a grandmother in Mississippi.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Now, wow, unbelievable. And has she had any of the
non comp cantions of ASDs or she's been.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
A little aging, has been it?
Speaker 6 (14:05):
And I'll tell you a cute story about at the
end of our session with her initial because she was
the first one.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
It's a cute story there. That's great.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
I'm wondering if you could share with the audience how
you and doctor Mills sized the defects in an era
that preceded real time transisophageal echo or any echo of
any sort beyond very rudimentary two D echo.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
First off, let me a mood I should say. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
First off, let me admit, if I knew then what
I know now, I would have never done it. So
so we developed, we use what we had, and when
you don't know what's coming, I'm in alle these of
these lectures.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
When I was thinking about this, I just want to
get a young lady through this in the life. I
wasn't thinking about all this magic stuff they're doing now.
So we developed a technique where we took the things
that we had, like cats that had balloons, and we
developed a process of sizing balloons in the experimental models.
(15:13):
And when I cathorized the patient with ASD, then I
would size it and then I scrubbed in on most
of the ASD's in that era that we were doing
the research, and then we would compare our measurements with
actual direct vision, and then we had We didn't have ECHO,
of course, and we didn't have CT, and we didn't
(15:34):
have MRI. But if you don't know that, then you
do what you got to do and uh so, Uh,
we had ways that we would know that it was
centrally located ASD because we didn't have echo to tell
us otherwise. The one thing we didn't really know would
be the wide variations of rems, which we know a
(15:56):
lot today about.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Uh, but we did what we had to do.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
I'm fascinated. How would you know if it was a
centrally located ASD Without echo?
Speaker 6 (16:08):
We would wedge a balloon a bloon field with high
pay fifty percent high pay, and we would turn the
patient to a slight ro if the balloon lined up
with a or valvesitis, it was for us was a
central ASD.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
That's how we did it. Wow, that's remarkable.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
And of course in that era, all patients who went
for surgery for asd s would have a calf anyway clinically.
Isn't that really Yes? I see wow, I'm you know.
We're talking, of course about the extraordinary nature of what
you did. But what sorts of complications did you guys
encounter in the beginning.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
Well, we encountered and you'll hear this tomorrow of our
first prototype. It was a disaster. And I said, what
idiot thought of this? And so we had to develop
a way of opening the device, and I don't want
(17:08):
to go further because I talked about that tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And then a big thing, of course, was we did
not have a cat lab.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
In the research building which was behind the institution, and
so we had to bring the animals into the hospital
late at night. We usually started, as you'll hear tomorrow,
with nine to ten o'clock. And one of the cute
stories is that we used ketamine first, and course it's
a leucinogenic, and the dogs would be howling as we
(17:39):
went down the hallway with them, so we changed, we
changed our method of sedation, to say the least. But
being late in the night, we didn't see many patients,
I mean many people in the hallways. I had the staff,
the staff that did all the research with me, did
(18:00):
every one of the human patients with me.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
And they were magnificent.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
And they even gave money to buy dogs, which I
didn't know about the time. I didn't know that early on.
So they were really committed to this.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
Wow, that's quite remarkable, you know. I was wondering, doctor King,
you know, if a present day experienced interventionalists, like so
many of the members of this audience were today using
your King Mills cardiac umbrella. What do you think would
be the most challenging part of the procedure when seen
(18:34):
from the perspective of today, is that the absence of
an echo, the lack of a self centering mechanism, the
sheath that you needed to put it in. What do
you think we as interventionalists today would look back on
and be shocked or find very challenging.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
We could not centered a device. That was the biggest
thing of not being able to center the advice and
it The second attempt at this was Raskin's fish hook device,
and I actually thought of that growing up as country
boy out and fishing. I actually thought about that, but
I thought, you're going to hook something that you can't
(19:15):
get off the hook. It's not a fish. So I
shied away from that. But that had a little centering qualities.
But it took about fifteen years. We limped along and
it took about fifteen years. So if you look at
at the nineties, it blossomed and since then it's been
a skyrocket.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
You heard seen all of this stuff. I would have
never dreamed.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Of that, now, you know. The thing that interested me
was you did all of this in the mid nineteen seventies,
and then, as you said, there really was very little
done in this area for like the next ten or
fifteen years.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
Why is that, Well, I think I told Cee I
this the other day. If I'd have been more widely read,
we had we had mentals with memory known in the
in the sixties. It was developed by a Navy researcher
in Virginia, And if I'd have known that, we might
(20:14):
have been a little further ahead than we were at
that time. I think it's we have Obviously it was
two doctors and a machinist that we're trying to figure
out all this. Well, you've heard how many people are
involved in the research now, so it's a smarter cadre
(20:34):
of people. Diversity, which I think is really important. Diversity
of people trying to solve how we can get better
and better and better.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I see, I see.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
Now you actually took a brief, great break from medicine.
Is that right? You were a chartly somewhere that you
were a politician at some point.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Yes, yes, tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Well, at one time I was pretty active in one
of the parties, and they wanted me on three different
occasions to become more active, and the governorship was discussed,
the representative was discussed, and the.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
One I almost almost was willing to.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
Get into frey was being senator. But Auctionner convinced me
that my theory was maybe I could be a statesman
and not a politician, and it would be nice to
have more statesmen. But Merril Hines at Auctionner convinced me,
don't do that. You're going to be better off doing
(21:39):
what you love, what you were trained to do, and
stay with being a physician.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Well we can thank that individual for sure. Yes, that
was a great decision, you know, doctor King, to a
very real degree. This entire conference is devoted to pushing
the envelope and what we can achieve in the Countfline
countered many difficult challenges in your own work when you
were discovering how to do a trans catheter asd repair.
(22:07):
I'm wondering if you could offer for the young people
who are here in the audience some advice regarding how
to deal with the expected criticisms and difficulties that naturally
occur when someone is trying to do something new that
maybe more gray haired colleagues don't favor or support.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
Well, you know, change is more often met with resistance,
and sometimes it's very fierce. Noel was highly criticized for this.
The Best Society at Thoracic Society chastised him. I was
criticized because we had heart surgery, was what I was thinking.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
But I think if.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
You're really in your heart that you're doing it for
the right reason, you can stand all the criticism in
the world. And I think my advice to the younger
generation is, yeah, people are going to be negative, but
remember why you're here. You're dedicated to making life better
for human beings, and I think if you put that
(23:11):
priority for you, I think you'll be successful.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, those are.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Words to live by and certainly something that all of
my mentors. I think if you put the patient first
always in your mind, that's rare that you make the
wrong decision.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
You know.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
I know a lot of people in the audience are
probably wondering, doctor King, what are you up to today?
Are you still practicing cardiology? I have heard to remember
that you're still pretty active as a cardiologist. What are
you up to these days?
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Well, I just had my sixtieth anniversary in June. As
being a physician, I have no sites on the retirement.
I do a lot of other things. I like the
challenges of building, and so I'm practicing five days a
week and taking call three hundred and sixty five days
(24:01):
a year.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
And I love what I do.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
And that's the thing that's most important to me is
when I go to places and people come up and
say to me thank you for helping them. There is
no reward that's better than that.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Money cannot buy that. And I think in my.
Speaker 6 (24:24):
Memoir, which we're hoping to publish, suit, I have a
chapter in there Heroes All in One, and it's about
the original five plus all the people in symbolic terms
that allowed me to share, to share in the care
of their child. They trusted me, and that's a great honor.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Yeah, no question about it. What would you give as
advice to the people in this audience regarding retirement. It
seems to me like you have no intention to retire.
Is that generally or approach?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Well, I built a water plan on my ranch recently,
irrigating four hundred acres and developed a way to irrigate
four hundred acres so I can grow hay more and
more and then take four hundred acres and run cattle
on that.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
So that's one operation.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
My life has had so many people that have contributed
to the contributed to me, and I cannot really take
credit without honoring all of those people, including my family
that allowed me to work excessive numbers of hours I worked.
I only slept four hours for many years, and so
(25:44):
I cheated them to some degree. But I'm hoping that
what we were successful with in taking care of patience
is some something of a forgiveness for their part. So
I'm going to continue to work and do the best
I can.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
You know, it's interesting that you answered that question that way.
Some of you may know that in my podcast two
weeks ago, we had doctor Hejazi on and he said
almost exactly the same thing. Is I think he said
something to the fact that you really can't have a balance,
that there is no real such thing as that that
you have to You have to make decisions, and sometimes
(26:28):
of some side of your life doesn't get the attention
it deserves because when you're doing important things, that's what happens.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
Yeah, I've often said to be a physician, you need
to be a monk and devotes your whole life only
to that. But I have to tell you, in my case,
if I didn't have my wife, I would be half
the man that I am today.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
And your wife is of course in the audience. Nancy,
thank you for being here today as well.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Well.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
We have a few minutes left at the end of
this interview, and I wanted to open up to the
audience because there are of course most of the people
in this audience know doctor King. Certainly everybody in the
audience knows of doctor King. Anybody like to ask him
a question? This is a rare opportunity to really speak
with an extraordinary icon. I'm so honored to even be
sitting here with them. I think I see another icon
(27:30):
walking to the stage.
Speaker 8 (27:35):
I can't see him. Terry, absolutely brilliant person. There, really
great role model. You briefly touched on one particular area
which nowadays is absolutely difficult, and that is when you're
consenting for an absolutely new procedure that's never.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Been done before.
Speaker 8 (27:59):
How do you tell the parents number one, it's never
been done before. Then they'll say what are the risks?
And then you have to say, I don't know. How
do you deal with that? And in your own self.
I know you were stressed anyway, But there's a wide issue,
isn't there.
Speaker 6 (28:19):
That's a really good question. I think honesty is the
best thing here. And this patient, Susette, was seen by
adult cardiologist and he was going to refer her to surgery,
and she said, I don't want to do that. But
he was also friends with Noel Mills, and that's how
(28:41):
we got her. And the parents were all in favor
of her decision. So we told her that this was
the first and that nobody had ever had this in
terms of being human, and that there was a chance
that she could die.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
And we told of parents, not in her presence.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
We had a separate meeting with them the seriousness that
could occur from this, the adverse possibilities, and.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
They said, she wants this, we support it.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
And so the attorneys, when they were involved, they got
involved and said, do you understand that you may die,
you may be crippled for life, blah blah blah, And
they still went through it. So I think that we
probably did the best we could under circumstances. But you
(29:37):
know what I thought when I was doing this, God,
don't let me kill this girl.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
I prayed, for that. God, don't let me kill this girl.
Speaker 9 (29:49):
Good afternoon. I'm Derese Bossel from Belgium. I've got two questions.
The first one is, if you could have your life over,
is there anything that that you would have done differently?
And the second question is do you think that a
female can be a great physician and a great mother?
(30:10):
After speaking about not being able to have a balance.
Those are my questions.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Hey, hold on this the second because I didn't quite
hear the second question, But let me.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Answer the first one.
Speaker 6 (30:25):
I truly believe that God has had his hand in
my career the whole time, and I don't think I
would change one thing in my career. Maybe be a
better man to my family, But in essence, I lived
the life I wanted to live. I came from the land,
I live on the land, and it's been a fantastic life.
(30:47):
God gives you all sorts of rewards that are free every.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Day, so I wouldn't change the thing. What was the
second question question?
Speaker 6 (31:01):
The answer is the answer is yes, there is balancing
in life, and some of us in this room don't
balance it as well as other people. And I'm guilty,
and I think women have a unique position. Men could
(31:25):
not do what women do. Let me assure you, they
would be running for the hills, and so I think
that they can do that, and we have more Let
me tell you, fifty years ago there might be.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Two women in this audience, but look at it now.
Speaker 6 (31:42):
Obviously it's possible, and it's better because women bring a
lot to the table that men can't bring, and sometimes
they bring more compassion than we do.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
So it answers.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Yes, we're going to take one more question because a
little out of time, but please, why don't you go
right ahead?
Speaker 10 (32:02):
So I have one comment, and that is the little
bit that I worked with doctor King. He gives credit
to everybody but himself. He's one of the best colleagues,
senior mentors to ever have. My question from you is
you and Noah Mills obviously worked very well together. How
(32:23):
do you, as an interventional cath with competing interests sometimes
have the surgeon come on to your site?
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Hum?
Speaker 6 (32:32):
Well, obviously I had a unique experience because sometimes it's
not like that. I think that we have to give
credit to the surgeons before us. We're standing on their
shoulders in many ways. Look what they did, they prove
(32:53):
you could not get operated on. So I think they
can be difference of opinions, but I think if you
have a collegial shared responsibility, and let me tell you,
our work was some pretty tough surgeons. John Oxner was
no way up and you take the best of it
(33:14):
and you roll with the rest of it. But in
the end it should be the team. It shouldn't be personalities.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
I think we're gonna have to end with that because
we're out of time. Doctor King, thank you so much.
This was delightful. I think we all learned so much
and enjoyed.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
It all right, So in honor of doctor King, we
are going to give him an award from the Pigs Society,
the Picks Career Achievement Award. This award is presented to
(33:51):
Terry Dean King, m D in honor of the fiftieth
anniversary of the of the ward's first trans Catholic closure
of an etreacceptal defect, performed by you, April nineteen seventy five,
with a gratitude for your vision and lasting impact on
the field of interventional pediatric and congenital cardiology. Your ground
(34:16):
breaking work transformed congenital heart disease treatment and continues to
save and improve lives around the world, depicts society congratulations.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
To conclude this week's three hundred and fifty third episode
of ped Heart Pediatric Cardiology Today, honoring the great doctor
Terry King, I thought it would only be appropriate to
highlight a great fellow Louisiana native by playing a live
performance of the wonderful soprano Lyzette Oropeza, who grew up
in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
Ms.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Oropeza is one of the greatest sopranos throughout the globe,
and like doctor King, rose from the state of Louisiana
to become world renowned. As evidence from this live twenty
seventeen performance in Germany of the Aria Sempre libra from
the end of Act one of Verdi's La Traviata. I'd
like to thank you for listening this week, and I'd
also like to thank doctors Damian Kenny and doctor Ziata
(35:21):
Jazzi for inviting me to interview doctor King. And of course,
once again I wish to thank doctor King for sharing
a bit of his life with us all.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I hope we'll have a good week ahead.
Speaker 11 (36:23):
People.
Speaker 12 (36:28):
He saw me that nor even had a sweeten t
if he start, so he starting.
Speaker 11 (36:39):
Also letter had up.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
They can watter journey.
Speaker 12 (36:46):
It's natter ny, it's a dys.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
See some.
Speaker 7 (37:27):
Time you doing Angel focus on says you stay.
Speaker 11 (37:41):
Except what didn't. Defends you to do
Speaker 12 (37:56):
Depends your smout say
Welcome to Pdiheart Pediatric Cardiology Today. My name is doctor
Robert Pass and I'm the host of this podcast. I
am Professor of Pediatrics at the Icon School of Medicine
at Mount Sinai, where I'm the chief of Pediatric Cardiology
and the co director of the Children's Heart Center. Welcome
to this three hundred and fifty third episode of Pdiheart.
I hope everybody enjoyed last week's episode on the topic
of adult congenital heart disease, in which you spoke with
(00:38):
doctor Katia Bravo Jims about the concept of why people
choose or don't choose to become adult congenital specialists. For
those of you are interested in this fascinating and important topic,
I'd recommend you to take to listen to last week's
episode three fifty two. As I say most weeks, if
you'd like to get in touch with me, my email
is easy to remember. It's Pdiheart at gmail dot com.
(01:00):
This week, I'm going to be playing for you an
interview that I conducted at the Pediatric Interventional CANT SYMPOSIU.
I'm twenty twenty five, just this past week in Chicago,
and I'll be speaking with doctor Terry King. Doctor Terry
King is one of the greats in the field of
pediatric cardiology and particularly interventional cardiology. Rather than discuss doctor
(01:21):
King right here, instead, what I'm going to do is
play a brief introduction from doctor Hijossi at the PICKS
meeting this week. Following his brief introduction, I will briefly
introduce doctor King and then you'll hear our conversation in
its entirety.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I hope all of you know who is doctor King.
Doctor King is a great colleague, mentor friend, you name it,
and of course pioneer. His seminal work in the seventies
really paved the way to what we do nowadays and
(01:59):
to what not just us interventional cardiology. He ventured inside
the heart and did the first glan scatter closure of
aciptal defect. So I'm not gonna steal any of the
thunder of doctor pass. He will interview him here and
hopefully he'll give you a chance of the towards the
(02:20):
end to ask questions from the audience to doctor King.
So kindly, please, can we have a seat and pay
attention to the moderator, Doctor Robert pass who will do
the interview right now.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Thank you, Rob, Thank you, Thanks all.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Let's say I'm gonna sit down in just a moment,
but I just want to add doctor Hejazi's wonderful introduction
and for those of you who don't know, doctor King
is obviously one of the true greats in the field
of pediatric cardiology and particularly interventional cardiology. For those who
don't know, he was born in Baytown, Texas, and matriculated
(03:03):
at the University of Texas. Following this, he chose to
pursue medicine at the University of Texas and earned his
MPT degree in nineteen sixty five after only two years
and nine months. I'd love to know how you did that.
He completed his pediatric internship at the University of Texas
and then moved to Duke for residency and fellowship, working
(03:23):
there in training from July of nineteen sixty six to
July of nineteen seventy and following this he served two
years in the Air Force. For that, we thank you, sir,
and then joined the Oxnar Clinic in part because of
the support he fell from doctor Mills, who was a
cardiac surgeon and was apparently also very interested in the
concept of closure of holes in the heart, and we'll
(03:44):
learn a little bit about that in a moment. Doctor
King and doctor Mills worked very hard with a machinist
in Baton Rouge, Louisiana until they came up with the device.
And the reason that we're speaking with him today is
because this is the fiftieth anniversary of the time that
he received a patent for their umbrella ASD device. And
in that same year, fifty years ago, doctor King and
(04:07):
his colleagues closed the first ASD in.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The cardiac calflab of all time. And this exciting event was.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
Covered all over the news globally and made doctor King
an overnight sensation and he was invited worldwide to speak
on this. And following this, in nineteen seventy eight, he
moved to Monroe, Louisiana from Oxner, where he developed a
nicu in apicuu as well as a calflab, and he
also established a Ronald MacDonald House there which is really
remarkable to provide for the families of all the patients there.
(04:38):
And he continued his work as a cardiologist's entire adult life,
caring for hundreds of thousands of children in Louisiana, and
I was surprised to learn, and we'll speak a little
bit about this, that you own a cattle ranch with
last count over eight hundred and fifty cattle, and also
a very successful restaurant tour, which is really remarkable and
(04:59):
perhaps most important. Doctor King is a devoted family man.
He's married for many decades, has five children, and I
believe at last count, I read fifteen grandchildren, all right, good,
And he's won countless awards, including the Picks Pioneer Award
in two thousand and seven, and so it is absolutely
a great honor. And I wish to thank Siodd and
(05:20):
Damien for the very kind orfer to speak briefly with
him today. So Doctor King, try to do this seated
down here together. So I guess you know, as I said,
this is the fiftieth anniversary of the time that you
did your first extraordinary achievement with where you closed an
(05:42):
ASD for the first time in a human with your partner,
doctor Mills, and we all know that there had to
have been a lot that went before that, and I'm
wondering if you could share with us when did you
first have the idea of closing an ASD or a
hole in the heart, And how did you know that
or learned that doctor Mills apparently had a very similar
(06:03):
interest to you and pursuing this real pipe dream. And
I wondered also, what were some of the bigger struggles
in the process leading up to the actual day when
you did that first closure.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Well, I first thought of this as my second year
of training at Duke, and my chief, as you'll hear tomorrow,
asked me to do another year. And I wasn't really
that slow, but he wanted me to do research. And
I didn't really ever think about that, but he promised
(06:38):
me if I would, it would make a difference.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
And so I did it.
Speaker 6 (06:43):
And I thought of this possibility, but in spite of
anybody I would talk with, it was no. And let
me put this in the background. Prior to this, the
surgeons and across the world spent two and a half
decades trying to develop a way that they could look
(07:07):
at the heart so non beating heart.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
To close ASD.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
So you can imagine when I started talking about this.
This was about sixteen years after John Gibbon closed the
first fixed the first person on the heart lung machine
in fifty three so this was really way out there
from everybody's opinion, and my colleagues that didn't have any
(07:34):
opinions except it can't be done. And in the Air
Force I had had an experience which I'll talk about tomorrow,
but we had a child that was hydrosophatic and had
embolized pudn's captor. In all four cases prior to that
went to surgery. And so I don't want to share
(07:58):
too much about it because we'll talking about this tomorrow.
But this was a pivotal event which I'll discuss tomorrow,
because it made me think for sure.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
We could do potentially repair of ASD.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
And this is towards the end of my Air Force career,
and I lay awake one morning thinking what's small enough
to pass through a catt but large enough to close
a hole? And it dawned on me it was simple,
just an umbrella. Well, the next break was when I
went to Auxner and I'd been interviewed there when doctor
Oxen called me, I said, look, I'm not a city boy.
(08:34):
I grew up in the country and I wasn't really
key to being a big city. But anyway, that's when
I met Noah Mills and he was working with posting
for BSDs and he was trying to figure out a
way he could manage this without surgery.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Well, that got us started.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
And I had an uncle up at LSU who was
an electrical engineering professor, and he helped us, and a
lot of things happened in there along the way, concuse me,
along the way that allowed us to progress to April.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Eighth, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 6 (09:12):
And I don't really want to share much of that
because I'm sharing it tomorrow. But the key thing here,
I think was I had a person, Noel Mills, who
was willing to rest risk his career to get involved
in this, and I had an institution that fully supported
(09:33):
it all the way from ount in Oxnor Senior to
John Oxner and the hospital component. They were willing to
risk their careers and so a lot of people stand
tall here, not me per se by myself, but with
a lot of other people. And I think that had
(09:57):
I not.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Had that support, I would not have done it. Of course, Wow,
really remarkable.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
It's so interesting to hear about the importance of mentors
in your life, because, of course people think of you
as a great mentor to so many people but perhaps
it's because you yourself had had excellent mentors as a
young person. You know, I was wondering, you know, although
the obvious benefits of avoiding surgery and bypass were clear,
(10:27):
given the novelty and the unknown aspects of what you
were doing, I wondered, as I thought about our talk today,
how did you convince a patient to agree to participate
in this research and undergo a catheter based approach when
nobody on planet Earth had ever had that before.
Speaker 6 (10:46):
Well, she didn't want to have a scar on her chest.
And it was interesting when I was thinking about this.
When I was at in the Air.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Force, I used to run every night.
Speaker 6 (11:05):
And I continued that when I got to Oxtar, and
interesting enough, I said, God, let me do this so
girls don't have to have a sternotomy scar. And she
did not want to have sternotomy. And today I'm still
in awe of her courage and she refuse. You should
(11:27):
have seen the permit, the signature acquisition that day that
they signed, the attorneys recordings. It was really something to see.
But she was steadfast. She was not going to have
a sternotomy.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
I was wondering, what's it informed con something look like
in nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
Well, it was a couple of pages, but there was
all sorts of attorneys there witness and it was all recorded,
and we went over, you can die with this, you
can die with this.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
I'm going to do this.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
But you had actually done animal data before this, right,
this wasn't the first time you had closed an ASD
in animal, at least or a mammal.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
I did at the end before we did the procedure.
There were three prototypes and the second prototype, as they'll
hear tomorrow, I actually worked very well, but I ran
into heartworms.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I thought every time I turned.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Around, I faced some new challenge, and we closed one
one night, and the very next time I couldn't get
the device closed, and so it was heartworms. So one
of the vets said, let's go to greyhounds. So I
went to Greyhounds, and I'll talk more about that tomorrow.
(12:43):
And then we got involved with Edwards Laboratory and the
third prototype. I did twenty nine straight dogs one hundred
percent successfully with the new prototype. And then we went to.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
The humans and doctor King, did you do this with
Doctor Mills? Was he in the room? Was he actually
scrubbed in or were you doing it? And he was
kind of like your surgical backup.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
You mean when we did the human Yes, no, he
was right there. We were ready prepared to do open
heart surgery. And I'll comment on this. I can't tell
you the heightened anxiety I had that day and heightened
(13:28):
anxiety no one Mills had that day because when unlocked
the device, he asked me three times is it locked?
And I know for sure he was thinking, if that's
not locked, I'm in deep alligators, then I'm gonna be
doing open heart surgery.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
So he was right across the table from me.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Wow. Wow, that sounds just remarkable. I'm wondering do you
still have contact with that first patient?
Speaker 4 (13:51):
I do? I do. She is a grandmother in Mississippi.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Now, wow, unbelievable. And has she had any of the
non comp cantions of ASDs or she's been.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
A little aging, has been it?
Speaker 6 (14:05):
And I'll tell you a cute story about at the
end of our session with her initial because she was
the first one.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
It's a cute story there. That's great.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
I'm wondering if you could share with the audience how
you and doctor Mills sized the defects in an era
that preceded real time transisophageal echo or any echo of
any sort beyond very rudimentary two D echo.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
First off, let me a mood I should say. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (14:35):
First off, let me admit, if I knew then what
I know now, I would have never done it. So
so we developed, we use what we had, and when
you don't know what's coming, I'm in alle these of
these lectures.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
When I was thinking about this, I just want to
get a young lady through this in the life. I
wasn't thinking about all this magic stuff they're doing now.
So we developed a technique where we took the things
that we had, like cats that had balloons, and we
developed a process of sizing balloons in the experimental models.
(15:13):
And when I cathorized the patient with ASD, then I
would size it and then I scrubbed in on most
of the ASD's in that era that we were doing
the research, and then we would compare our measurements with
actual direct vision, and then we had We didn't have ECHO,
of course, and we didn't have CT, and we didn't
(15:34):
have MRI. But if you don't know that, then you
do what you got to do and uh so, Uh,
we had ways that we would know that it was
centrally located ASD because we didn't have echo to tell
us otherwise. The one thing we didn't really know would
be the wide variations of rems, which we know a
(15:56):
lot today about.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Uh, but we did what we had to do.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
I'm fascinated. How would you know if it was a
centrally located ASD Without echo?
Speaker 6 (16:08):
We would wedge a balloon a bloon field with high
pay fifty percent high pay, and we would turn the
patient to a slight ro if the balloon lined up
with a or valvesitis, it was for us was a
central ASD.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
That's how we did it. Wow, that's remarkable.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
And of course in that era, all patients who went
for surgery for asd s would have a calf anyway clinically.
Isn't that really Yes? I see wow, I'm you know.
We're talking, of course about the extraordinary nature of what
you did. But what sorts of complications did you guys
encounter in the beginning.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
Well, we encountered and you'll hear this tomorrow of our
first prototype. It was a disaster. And I said, what
idiot thought of this? And so we had to develop
a way of opening the device, and I don't want
(17:08):
to go further because I talked about that tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And then a big thing, of course, was we did
not have a cat lab.
Speaker 6 (17:18):
In the research building which was behind the institution, and
so we had to bring the animals into the hospital
late at night. We usually started, as you'll hear tomorrow,
with nine to ten o'clock. And one of the cute
stories is that we used ketamine first, and course it's
a leucinogenic, and the dogs would be howling as we
(17:39):
went down the hallway with them, so we changed, we
changed our method of sedation, to say the least. But
being late in the night, we didn't see many patients,
I mean many people in the hallways. I had the staff,
the staff that did all the research with me, did
(18:00):
every one of the human patients with me.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
And they were magnificent.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
And they even gave money to buy dogs, which I
didn't know about the time. I didn't know that early on.
So they were really committed to this.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
Wow, that's quite remarkable, you know. I was wondering, doctor King,
you know, if a present day experienced interventionalists, like so
many of the members of this audience were today using
your King Mills cardiac umbrella. What do you think would
be the most challenging part of the procedure when seen
(18:34):
from the perspective of today, is that the absence of
an echo, the lack of a self centering mechanism, the
sheath that you needed to put it in. What do
you think we as interventionalists today would look back on
and be shocked or find very challenging.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
We could not centered a device. That was the biggest
thing of not being able to center the advice and
it The second attempt at this was Raskin's fish hook device,
and I actually thought of that growing up as country
boy out and fishing. I actually thought about that, but
I thought, you're going to hook something that you can't
(19:15):
get off the hook. It's not a fish. So I
shied away from that. But that had a little centering qualities.
But it took about fifteen years. We limped along and
it took about fifteen years. So if you look at
at the nineties, it blossomed and since then it's been
a skyrocket.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
You heard seen all of this stuff. I would have
never dreamed.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Of that, now, you know. The thing that interested me
was you did all of this in the mid nineteen seventies,
and then, as you said, there really was very little
done in this area for like the next ten or
fifteen years.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
Why is that, Well, I think I told Cee I
this the other day. If I'd have been more widely read,
we had we had mentals with memory known in the
in the sixties. It was developed by a Navy researcher
in Virginia, And if I'd have known that, we might
(20:14):
have been a little further ahead than we were at
that time. I think it's we have Obviously it was
two doctors and a machinist that we're trying to figure
out all this. Well, you've heard how many people are
involved in the research now, so it's a smarter cadre
(20:34):
of people. Diversity, which I think is really important. Diversity
of people trying to solve how we can get better
and better and better.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I see, I see.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
Now you actually took a brief, great break from medicine.
Is that right? You were a chartly somewhere that you
were a politician at some point.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Yes, yes, tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Well, at one time I was pretty active in one
of the parties, and they wanted me on three different
occasions to become more active, and the governorship was discussed,
the representative was discussed, and the.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
One I almost almost was willing to.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
Get into frey was being senator. But Auctionner convinced me
that my theory was maybe I could be a statesman
and not a politician, and it would be nice to
have more statesmen. But Merril Hines at Auctionner convinced me,
don't do that. You're going to be better off doing
(21:39):
what you love, what you were trained to do, and
stay with being a physician.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Well we can thank that individual for sure. Yes, that
was a great decision, you know, doctor King, to a
very real degree. This entire conference is devoted to pushing
the envelope and what we can achieve in the Countfline
countered many difficult challenges in your own work when you
were discovering how to do a trans catheter asd repair.
(22:07):
I'm wondering if you could offer for the young people
who are here in the audience some advice regarding how
to deal with the expected criticisms and difficulties that naturally
occur when someone is trying to do something new that
maybe more gray haired colleagues don't favor or support.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
Well, you know, change is more often met with resistance,
and sometimes it's very fierce. Noel was highly criticized for this.
The Best Society at Thoracic Society chastised him. I was
criticized because we had heart surgery, was what I was thinking.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
But I think if.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
You're really in your heart that you're doing it for
the right reason, you can stand all the criticism in
the world. And I think my advice to the younger
generation is, yeah, people are going to be negative, but
remember why you're here. You're dedicated to making life better
for human beings, and I think if you put that
(23:11):
priority for you, I think you'll be successful.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, those are.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Words to live by and certainly something that all of
my mentors. I think if you put the patient first
always in your mind, that's rare that you make the
wrong decision.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
You know.
Speaker 5 (23:28):
I know a lot of people in the audience are
probably wondering, doctor King, what are you up to today?
Are you still practicing cardiology? I have heard to remember
that you're still pretty active as a cardiologist. What are
you up to these days?
Speaker 6 (23:40):
Well, I just had my sixtieth anniversary in June. As
being a physician, I have no sites on the retirement.
I do a lot of other things. I like the
challenges of building, and so I'm practicing five days a
week and taking call three hundred and sixty five days
(24:01):
a year.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
And I love what I do.
Speaker 6 (24:05):
And that's the thing that's most important to me is
when I go to places and people come up and
say to me thank you for helping them. There is
no reward that's better than that.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Money cannot buy that. And I think in my.
Speaker 6 (24:24):
Memoir, which we're hoping to publish, suit, I have a
chapter in there Heroes All in One, and it's about
the original five plus all the people in symbolic terms
that allowed me to share, to share in the care
of their child. They trusted me, and that's a great honor.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Yeah, no question about it. What would you give as
advice to the people in this audience regarding retirement. It
seems to me like you have no intention to retire.
Is that generally or approach?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Well, I built a water plan on my ranch recently,
irrigating four hundred acres and developed a way to irrigate
four hundred acres so I can grow hay more and
more and then take four hundred acres and run cattle
on that.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
So that's one operation.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
My life has had so many people that have contributed
to the contributed to me, and I cannot really take
credit without honoring all of those people, including my family
that allowed me to work excessive numbers of hours I worked.
I only slept four hours for many years, and so
(25:44):
I cheated them to some degree. But I'm hoping that
what we were successful with in taking care of patience
is some something of a forgiveness for their part. So
I'm going to continue to work and do the best
I can.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
You know, it's interesting that you answered that question that way.
Some of you may know that in my podcast two
weeks ago, we had doctor Hejazi on and he said
almost exactly the same thing. Is I think he said
something to the fact that you really can't have a balance,
that there is no real such thing as that that
you have to You have to make decisions, and sometimes
(26:28):
of some side of your life doesn't get the attention
it deserves because when you're doing important things, that's what happens.
Speaker 6 (26:34):
Yeah, I've often said to be a physician, you need
to be a monk and devotes your whole life only
to that. But I have to tell you, in my case,
if I didn't have my wife, I would be half
the man that I am today.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
And your wife is of course in the audience. Nancy,
thank you for being here today as well.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Well.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
We have a few minutes left at the end of
this interview, and I wanted to open up to the
audience because there are of course most of the people
in this audience know doctor King. Certainly everybody in the
audience knows of doctor King. Anybody like to ask him
a question? This is a rare opportunity to really speak
with an extraordinary icon. I'm so honored to even be
sitting here with them. I think I see another icon
(27:30):
walking to the stage.
Speaker 8 (27:35):
I can't see him. Terry, absolutely brilliant person. There, really
great role model. You briefly touched on one particular area
which nowadays is absolutely difficult, and that is when you're
consenting for an absolutely new procedure that's never.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Been done before.
Speaker 8 (27:59):
How do you tell the parents number one, it's never
been done before. Then they'll say what are the risks?
And then you have to say, I don't know. How
do you deal with that? And in your own self.
I know you were stressed anyway, But there's a wide issue,
isn't there.
Speaker 6 (28:19):
That's a really good question. I think honesty is the
best thing here. And this patient, Susette, was seen by
adult cardiologist and he was going to refer her to surgery,
and she said, I don't want to do that. But
he was also friends with Noel Mills, and that's how
(28:41):
we got her. And the parents were all in favor
of her decision. So we told her that this was
the first and that nobody had ever had this in
terms of being human, and that there was a chance
that she could die.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
And we told of parents, not in her presence.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
We had a separate meeting with them the seriousness that
could occur from this, the adverse possibilities, and.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
They said, she wants this, we support it.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
And so the attorneys, when they were involved, they got
involved and said, do you understand that you may die,
you may be crippled for life, blah blah blah, And
they still went through it. So I think that we
probably did the best we could under circumstances. But you
(29:37):
know what I thought when I was doing this, God,
don't let me kill this girl.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
I prayed, for that. God, don't let me kill this girl.
Speaker 9 (29:49):
Good afternoon. I'm Derese Bossel from Belgium. I've got two questions.
The first one is, if you could have your life over,
is there anything that that you would have done differently?
And the second question is do you think that a
female can be a great physician and a great mother?
(30:10):
After speaking about not being able to have a balance.
Those are my questions.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Hey, hold on this the second because I didn't quite
hear the second question, But let me.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Answer the first one.
Speaker 6 (30:25):
I truly believe that God has had his hand in
my career the whole time, and I don't think I
would change one thing in my career. Maybe be a
better man to my family, But in essence, I lived
the life I wanted to live. I came from the land,
I live on the land, and it's been a fantastic life.
(30:47):
God gives you all sorts of rewards that are free every.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Day, so I wouldn't change the thing. What was the
second question question?
Speaker 6 (31:01):
The answer is the answer is yes, there is balancing
in life, and some of us in this room don't
balance it as well as other people. And I'm guilty,
and I think women have a unique position. Men could
(31:25):
not do what women do. Let me assure you, they
would be running for the hills, and so I think
that they can do that, and we have more Let
me tell you, fifty years ago there might be.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Two women in this audience, but look at it now.
Speaker 6 (31:42):
Obviously it's possible, and it's better because women bring a
lot to the table that men can't bring, and sometimes
they bring more compassion than we do.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
So it answers.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Yes, we're going to take one more question because a
little out of time, but please, why don't you go
right ahead?
Speaker 10 (32:02):
So I have one comment, and that is the little
bit that I worked with doctor King. He gives credit
to everybody but himself. He's one of the best colleagues,
senior mentors to ever have. My question from you is
you and Noah Mills obviously worked very well together. How
(32:23):
do you, as an interventional cath with competing interests sometimes
have the surgeon come on to your site?
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Hum?
Speaker 6 (32:32):
Well, obviously I had a unique experience because sometimes it's
not like that. I think that we have to give
credit to the surgeons before us. We're standing on their
shoulders in many ways. Look what they did, they prove
(32:53):
you could not get operated on. So I think they
can be difference of opinions, but I think if you
have a collegial shared responsibility, and let me tell you,
our work was some pretty tough surgeons. John Oxner was
no way up and you take the best of it
(33:14):
and you roll with the rest of it. But in
the end it should be the team. It shouldn't be personalities.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
I think we're gonna have to end with that because
we're out of time. Doctor King, thank you so much.
This was delightful. I think we all learned so much
and enjoyed.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
It all right, So in honor of doctor King, we
are going to give him an award from the Pigs Society,
the Picks Career Achievement Award. This award is presented to
(33:51):
Terry Dean King, m D in honor of the fiftieth
anniversary of the of the ward's first trans Catholic closure
of an etreacceptal defect, performed by you, April nineteen seventy five,
with a gratitude for your vision and lasting impact on
the field of interventional pediatric and congenital cardiology. Your ground
(34:16):
breaking work transformed congenital heart disease treatment and continues to
save and improve lives around the world, depicts society congratulations.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
To conclude this week's three hundred and fifty third episode
of ped Heart Pediatric Cardiology Today, honoring the great doctor
Terry King, I thought it would only be appropriate to
highlight a great fellow Louisiana native by playing a live
performance of the wonderful soprano Lyzette Oropeza, who grew up
in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
Ms.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Oropeza is one of the greatest sopranos throughout the globe,
and like doctor King, rose from the state of Louisiana
to become world renowned. As evidence from this live twenty
seventeen performance in Germany of the Aria Sempre libra from
the end of Act one of Verdi's La Traviata. I'd
like to thank you for listening this week, and I'd
also like to thank doctors Damian Kenny and doctor Ziata
(35:21):
Jazzi for inviting me to interview doctor King. And of course,
once again I wish to thank doctor King for sharing
a bit of his life with us all.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I hope we'll have a good week ahead.
Speaker 11 (36:23):
People.
Speaker 12 (36:28):
He saw me that nor even had a sweeten t
if he start, so he starting.
Speaker 11 (36:39):
Also letter had up.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
They can watter journey.
Speaker 12 (36:46):
It's natter ny, it's a dys.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
See some.
Speaker 7 (37:27):
Time you doing Angel focus on says you stay.
Speaker 11 (37:41):
Except what didn't. Defends you to do
Speaker 12 (37:56):
Depends your smout say
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