May 7, 2025 • 56 mins
Meet Susan Amsden, author and Business Manager for the International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS) and learn what inspired her early interest in NDEs and her book on the subject. Hear stories of experiencers, information about IANDS meetings, and more.
Buy Susan's book: https://www.amazon.com/NDEs-Unveiled-Mysteries-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/194596264X
Learn more about IANDS: https://iands.org/
And the IANDS annual conference: https://conference.iands.org/
And the IANDS groups and events: https://isgo.iands.org/
Subscribe to Nicolle’s newsletter, find her books, or book a healing session at https://www.nicollemorock.com/
The talented Mr. Jeremy Moss http://jeremymosscomposer.com/ provides theme music (Listen through the end of the podcast to hear the whole theme song.)
Connect with Nicolle at www.peeppodcast.com and https://www.facebook.com/P.E.E.P.Podcast
Get merchandise at https://www.teepublic.com/user/peep-podcast
Buy Susan's book: https://www.amazon.com/NDEs-Unveiled-Mysteries-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/194596264X
Learn more about IANDS: https://iands.org/
And the IANDS annual conference: https://conference.iands.org/
And the IANDS groups and events: https://isgo.iands.org/
Subscribe to Nicolle’s newsletter, find her books, or book a healing session at https://www.nicollemorock.com/
The talented Mr. Jeremy Moss http://jeremymosscomposer.com/ provides theme music (Listen through the end of the podcast to hear the whole theme song.)
Connect with Nicolle at www.peeppodcast.com and https://www.facebook.com/P.E.E.P.Podcast
Get merchandise at https://www.teepublic.com/user/peep-podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Near death experiences are fascinating. They provide a glimpse into
what may happen after we die and deeply affect the
people who have had them. In this episode, we'll talk
with a woman who has felt their profound effects by
being in close proximity to experiencers. Welcome to the Peak
(00:50):
Podcast Episode one hundred. I'm your host, Nicole Morock, and
I'm grateful you're here. The two big ideas behind the
Peak Podcast are to show them that the paranormal is
more normal than most people think, and to connect the
science to the SI, including esp psychokinesis and intuition. In
(01:10):
this episode, you'll meet Susan Amsten, the business manager for
International Association for Near Death Studies iients for short, and
hear about her search for understanding. But first, a quick update.
If you received my newsletter last week but didn't read it,
you may want to open it. I shared how to
(01:33):
win an advance copy of Daughter of the Mystic Moon
before it's even launched on Kickstarter. One lucky subscriber will
win in a drawing on May twelfth, so if you're interested,
follow the instructions in the email. If you're not on
my email list and you want to be, go to
peeppodcast dot com and click on the button at the
(01:55):
top of the page that says sign up for the newsletter.
Back to this episode's topic, Near death Experiences. We've covered
INDs in four episodes so far. Episode twelve, Rick Norriega,
Early Childhood in DAEs and Other Paranormal Experiences. Episode twenty six,
(02:19):
Robert and Susan Mays discuss near death experiences. Episode twenty seven,
From Near Death Experiencer to Energy Healer. Episode seventy two,
John Mathis, George Carlin, Saint Michael, and New Directions. Each
conversation was unique and enlightening, and this episode is no different.
(02:42):
It's only fitting to cover one of my favorite topics
in episode one hundred. Susan Amsten is the business manager
for the International Association for Near Death Studies. She has
listened to and talked with thousands of people who have
called into the office with their d stories. She facilitates
(03:03):
monthly INDE meetings in Durham, North Carolina. Susan longed to
understand death and the afterlife since early childhood. In her
recent book, Indes Unveiled and Insiders Look into the Mysteries
of Near Death experiences. She shares many captivating stories of indes.
(03:24):
Is there a heaven? What will it be like on
the other side? Is there a God who will greet me?
Who judges the life review? The book discusses the challenges
of near death experiencers and what family and loved one's
face when someone close to them has an INDE. It
explores what it means for humanity for this phenomenon to
(03:46):
come into the wider public awareness at a time when
we are searching for answers to our greatest challenges. If
we've proven that life continues after the body stops functioning,
we will change the world by changing how we understand
ourselves as spiritual beings and dese give us a new
spiritual paradigm. Let's dive in with Susan. Hi, Susan, how
(04:12):
are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Hi? I'm doing great, Nikki, how.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I'm doing so well? And I'm so grateful that you
are here today to talk with me about your new
book and I ends and I just this is one
of my favorite subjects and you are the interview for
episode one hundred.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Of the Peak podcast.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So wow, this is special in so many ways to me.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Great.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
First too, I appreciate that. First, I want to get
started with how did you first get interested in near
death experiences?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, I actually had first h heard and read like
doctor Raymond Moody's book Life After Life. But I had
seen some experiencers, mostly Tom Sawyer on The Donahue Show,
The Phil Donahue Show That's going way back, and I
could not get enough. I was so entranced by what
(05:18):
they had to say. But back then it was really
difficult to find any information about near death experiences. And
so I ended up going through a period of my
life where I started having panic attacks and they feel
like you're going to die because you don't. You have
(05:39):
no control over them. You don't know when they're going
to happen. But I had a lot of things happen
during that time. I mean I had had a miscarriage
and the panic attacks started after that. I felt like
I had reached the pinnacle of my job at that time,
and I just felt like or some cracks in my marriage.
(06:01):
And so yeah, it felt like death, death, death, as
if I was staring at him the face. And then
I heard my mother's voice say, Susan, like she you know,
like a parent would yell at a child. But she
had died in nineteen sixty four when I was nine
years old. Wow, and this is when I was already married,
(06:24):
and I had not heard from her, you know, since
she since I last saw her, you know, in the
cast stuff. But that funeral scared me so bad of
death and dying and yeah, so I but I didn't
know how to deal with it. Like back then, it
(06:47):
was considered, oh the less you tell children, the better,
don't you know, tell them what's going on. And there
was a lot because the month, a couple of months
before she died, she was in the hospital on morphine.
They've been treating her for ulcers. I mean I only
learned this stuff later years years later, And yeah, it
(07:11):
turned out it was pancreatic cancer. So back then they
just pretty much closed somebody up and start giving them morphine.
But my brother and I were living alone for a
week because nobody knew that we were on our own,
and we started running out. Yeah, we started running out
(07:31):
of food, and so my brother got the courage up
at the end of the week to go and take
a cab, take a taxi. He was trying to gather
some money because we didn't have hardly any money back then,
because a woman couldn't hardly make a paycheck. You know,
that was worth supporting, you know, having a place to
(07:52):
live and supporting the food and everything else and children.
So we took this taxi to a nearby hospit Biddle,
and it was late at night on Friday night, and
pretty soon, you know, the authorities were like, what is
this kid coming. He was thirteen years old then, and
(08:12):
they're like, what is this kid coming late at night?
You know, to find his mother when you know. So anyways,
that's how the authorities found out about it. But back
then there were at that point she had been going
to alcoholics anonymous, and so too. One guy took me
(08:32):
and one guy took my brother, and so for a
couple of months we lived separate, and until then she
died and my brother could finally remember, like, oh, my
dad used to work at a car company somewhere in Michigan.
So they the police were able to find him, and yeah,
he wanted to have us back, but he himself actually
(08:57):
had all kinds of issues because he was so devastated
that his wife took his children and left him, that
his mother put him in the Pontiac Statemental Hospital and
he received electro convulsive therapy you know, shock treatment. Oh wow. Yeah. Fortunately,
he you know, ended up being able to be released.
(09:20):
And he said it was because the psychologists or psychiatrist
at a time said, and I only heard this from
somebody else, I should that he said, she told him
children belong with their mother. So that's how all of
this stuff, you know, led to me really having this
(09:43):
desire to find out more about these near death experiences
because I could tell the adults from my childhood they
did not know how to explain it to me, you know,
because I was asking him what does it mean when
you die? And they find least said, well, it's when
you quit breathing. And so then I was afraid to
(10:04):
go to sleep at night because I was afraid i'd
quit forget to forget to breathe anyway. So yeah, that's
that's the whole. So I say, really, her death was
my core experience for wanting to find out about near
death experiences, but I didn't even know what they were.
And as it turned out, forty years later, I ended
(10:25):
up finding out my mother had a near death experience. Wow. Yeah.
And so when I started really getting involved in Ions,
which I started going to Chicago Ions. I had lived
in Michigan and at that time I had been married
close to thirty one years and there were still cracks
(10:50):
in the marriage and we were going in opposite directions,
and I started I looked on the internet to find
out about atheism because as my husband was an atheist,
and they said they were going to have Howard Storm
he was going to speak at Chicago Ions. So I
drove the five hours one way, and oh, I was hooked.
(11:12):
I mean because Howard started out, as i'll call it,
an avid atheist, and then he later became a minister
after his near death experience. But yeah, so I'm trying
to think of I left anything out there. That's basically
how I got interested in ions. And then I just
(11:33):
kept going every month to their meetings and just to
go back a little bit. Like with the panic attacks.
They had prescribed me a tranquilizer that they said was
very mild, but that freaked me out too, because my
(11:54):
mother had been prescribed tranquilizers in the late fifties and
they didn't know they were addictive back then. And then
she started drinking elkhol on top of it and then she,
you know, was dead at age thirty six. So yeah,
I didn't feel comfortable taking them. So I found out
there was free counseling offered at this university because I
(12:15):
was considering going back to college. So it was only
about maybe six months. I don't even know if it
was that, and the counselor, who was a graduate student
learning to be a PhD. I think what he asked me,
if I recall, was what are you most afraid of?
(12:35):
And I realized, oh my god, I had repressed a
thought that I was going to die young like my
mother if I had children. And once I was able
to bring that to my conscious awareness, the panic attacks
went away. And so you know that was such a blessing. Yeah,
(12:56):
but so was Ian's ions for me. I feel like,
save my sanity. And so as I was going once
a month to the Chicago, I ans i'd hear all
these near death experiences, and I went and asked them.
I said, now, how can I feel that unconditional love?
(13:18):
And how come you know, how can I hear that
divine wisdom you guys hear? And it was unanimous. They
all said meditation was the key. So I started meditating,
you know, I'd go back to Michigan and start meditating.
And one of the times, after a couple of months,
I went back to another meeting and said, well, I'm
(13:40):
not hearing anything. You know, I'm not hearing any answers.
And they said, well, did you ask a question? And
it was like, oh, duh, you mean I have to
you know, participate, And then yeah, I ask a question.
And so I went back to Michigan and went into
meditation and asked should I divorce? Because I agonized for
(14:01):
several years over this, and because I loved my husband
very much, but there were we were going in opposite directions,
and this male voice came to the left side of
my head, outside of my head, and the male voice said,
do you have a marriage? And at first I was
like kind of indignant. I was like, well, yes, I've
(14:22):
been married about thirty one years. And the voice didn't
argue with me. It never told me what to do.
And I had to process that and it made me realize, oh,
just because I have a signed piece of papers saying
I'm married doesn't mean I have a quality marriage. And
we had had a lot of great years and raised
(14:44):
two sons and you know, so that that was wonderful.
But and I also started receiving clairvoyant images when I
would go into meditation, and one of them was too
lease cars and they were like just zooming right past
each other with their lights blaring, which that shows some
(15:08):
synesthesia there because lights don't make noise, right, But in
meditation I would sometimes get these synesthesia the mix of senses,
and I had to ask. There was a Spiritualist church,
and I found out that a lot of Spiritualist ministers
(15:29):
go into that field because they had had a near
death experience and they get opened up to mediumship. And
the research shows that fifty six percent of near death
experiencers will receive a spontaneous medium you know, they aren't
asking for it and they get a spontaneous mediumship message.
(15:52):
So I went to her. She was great at the
Space City, Michigan Church and Reverend Laura McLoughlin, and she
could give everybody in the church of reading. Every Sunday,
she'd give everybody a reading, but she'd be really quick
about it. She'd just give you a couple of sentences
(16:13):
kind of about where you are in your life or
things to kind of spur you on to get you
moving in your path. And yeah, because like I was
sitting there one time in church and she was reading
the person next to me, and I still wasn't quite
sure what to make of all this. Is this really
you know, a real thing? And right before she was
(16:38):
going to read me, as she's reading this other person,
I felt this energy draw come out of my third
chakra and then she gave me the reading. I was like,
oh my god, that's you know, that's probably how she
does it, either her spirit guides or whatever, or you know,
going to the next person before she's done saying the
first first person before me. And I asked her, you know,
(17:02):
because on Wednesdays most of those places will have a
medium ship like courtse where people can practice, and so
I asked her what that meant and she said, well,
one cars you, one police cars you, the other police
cars your husband, and you're going one hundred and eighty
degrees in opposite directions. So then it was an easy,
(17:25):
easier decision for me. Is yeah, that's what I needed
to do. And then I just kept going for several years,
but I started feeling these changes like that I needed
to take an early retirement from this corporation because I
really didn't want to make this particular corporation richer, and
(17:46):
I decided, Okay, I'm going to take an early retirement
after I divorced, and then I moved to Tucson and
I started the two helped co found and cod facilitate
the Tucson and Phoenix groups Ions Groups, and that was
so much fun. I mean, I just love that. I
(18:08):
felt like, oh good, at least I feel like I'm
doing something worthwhile for humanity to help give near death
experiencers a platform to talk about their experience and get
their message out to the public. And plus, I mean,
I learned a lot. And I never started a group
(18:30):
in Michigan because I didn't have the confidence that me,
as a non near death experiencer, could do that. But yet, yeah,
now I find it is possible. Now I run the Durham,
North Carolina Ions Group, and yeah, it's just such a blessing.
I've met so many wonderful people and they all, you know,
(18:53):
their ndaest have a lot of similar characteristics, but they're
all unique to that person, and they oftentimes come back
with gifts like healing or you know, there's a lot
of after effects. I mean, they start getting psychic impressions,
(19:15):
they may start having downloads of information. There's all kinds
of things. They may get glimpses of past lives, or
we have some that have glimpses of future lives. Because
when you get in that space like they were in
in a near death experience, there is no time. You're
(19:36):
just in the now. Everything's happening all at once and anyways,
I just feel like near death experiences have so much
that the general public can listen to and learn from
very you know, a lot of wisdom there. And actually
one of our co founders, doctor Kenneth Ring, he called
(19:57):
it the benign virus that non near death experiencers can catch.
Like he said he caught as he would listen to
near death experiencers tell their experience, he felt like he
started to have some of their similar after effects, like
he lost his fear of death, and he started becoming
(20:20):
more altruistic. He wanted to help humanity and not just
worry about his own materialistic issues. And you know, there's anyways,
there's several other after effects too. But yeah, that was wonderful.
So now I realize, Okay, so I'm a benign virus person.
(20:42):
But also I'm called spiritually transformative experiencer an steer as
we do all these acronyms, and yeah, because I feel
like I changed, and that's the qualification or what would
I say, the indicators of how much has the person
(21:03):
changed their life, And so yeah, I totally changed my
life from that point and hopefully I'm still changing and
progressing in ways, and meditation is still very important to me,
and I still get I'll get some precognitive things. I've
(21:27):
also had some precognitive dreams. And I really think everybody
does have these abilities, but unfortunately, I think we're our culture.
It's almost it's just not given any value or importance.
Or maybe it's because we're being raised by parents who
(21:48):
they're just not familiar at all. Either they're not as aware.
So I really look forward to the future where more
parents and children can be raised recognizing they already have
these abilities. They can already do telepathy. And I look
(22:08):
back and my oldest son, I remember when he was
either three or four, he started talking about this guy
and he was talking. I don't know if he was
talking to him or what. And now I look back
and I think, oh my god, he was taught that
was a past life. He was, you know, checking into
or whatever. So yeah, I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That is amazing. And I do feel like you have
telepathy because while you were talking, you answered the questions
I was going to ask. So that's awesome. So going
back to the first part of your story, you and
this may just be a really quick throw back to it,
but you said you heard your mother's voice. When you
(22:56):
heard your mother's voice, did you realize that she was
actually calling to you, or did you have one of
those oh my gosh, I'm going crazy moments.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I thought I was going crazy because I mean I
knew my dad had been in a mental institution for
a while, and I thought, oh my god, you know,
maybe I've somehow got some of that. And then my
mother he or she had been on tranquilizers. But she
had a just a really terrible childhood. I grew up
in the dustbel days they lost the farm. She was
(23:27):
the oldest of like ten or nine kids, and yeah,
it just not a fun childhood.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
At what point did you realize that maybe she actually
was calling you or did you ever come to that realization?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, I eventually did. It's like oh, duh, another dumb moment.
But yeah, it took me several years. It took me
several years and a lot of learning about near death
experiences and learning from that spiritualist minister, and yeah, it
(24:02):
took me a while. But I boy, once you're there,
it's like, oh my god, it feels like you understand
how the world works better or this system that we're in.
You feel like you can understand it better. And I
feel like I'm not as fearful about the future and
(24:23):
things like that, even though I know a lot of
people have been really distraught, you know, by what's going
on in the world right now, and I just feel
like a lot of end of years they'll say everything
is working out. It's kind of like, which perspective level
are we going to be at? Are we going to
be at the human being level, which is lower, or
(24:45):
are we going to go up higher to maybe our
guide's level or an angel's level. And you know you
can keep going up. Well, and if you think there
is an omniscient god level, well, wow, what a whole
different viewpoint that's going to have compared to our human
being level. And I think it's kind of like when
(25:05):
you had children. You know, your children may see things
at a certain viewpoint when they're just little, and things
may seem horrible to them that they have to do.
But yet yeah, now that they're older, they can appreciate, Okay,
that was worth it.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
What Yeah, the homework that you didn't want to play outside.
A lot of us are still like that as adults,
just bigger issues instead of that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, Like I have to laugh. Natalie Sudman and nd
Ear who she had gone to Iraq as like a
civil engineer type person, and I think her friends and
courage you're like, oh, it'll be fun. And what happened
was as she's in this convoy, you know, train of vehicles,
(25:55):
I mean, she'd been working there. I don't know if
it's like a year and a half or something in
Iraq and they were like doing rebuilding and stuff like that.
And as she's traveling in this convoy vehicle and IOD
device or ID I'm trying to remember which the right acronyms. Yeah,
device exploded underneath the vehicle, and you know, she called
(26:19):
it the blink environment. All of a sudden, she felt
like she just blinked. I mean, because she had been
kind of falling asleep as the driver's drive in the vehicle,
and you know, she had her arm on the the
side of the door there, and all of a sudden,
next she blinks and she's standing on this stage like
I think it was ten feet by twenty feet and
(26:41):
there's a hole like just so many beans. It was
almost like a stadium. And they were all expressing admiration
to her, and she felt like, what, I'm here in
my bloodied camouflage. She called them cammis, and she felt like, what,
I was just doing my job, and yet they were
(27:03):
just yeah, they were just so grateful expressing all this
love to her. And anyways, yeah, and so she had
a lot of important elements too, like when she was
coming back into her body after she had gone like
to a healing environment. I think she called it R
(27:24):
and R rest and rejuvenation or something. And they were
even joking with her, they said, well, how do you
want to go back? Like what you know, what ailments
do you want to go back with? And she was
even she had trouble with her eye, and she thought, oh, yeah,
I could be interesting in going back. I just want
to eye and her wrist and you know, but in
(27:46):
that environment, because they you know, they look at it
a whole different perspective. They were actually laughing about some
of these Oh would she want to experience this or
would she want to experience that? So anyways, she she
did come back with a few ailments and NPTSD that
she wanted to try to help to learn veterans to
(28:09):
help them. But yeah, she's starting to come back into
her body. She said. The whole scene was like frozen,
like it's still. It was like everything was stopped, almost
like in a muse movie, how you can stop it
at any point and you see everything stay, so all
(28:29):
the people were not moving and all that, and then
when she got back into her body, then it's back
to normal. I mean, it's Oh, it's just so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
That is that's a very unique story to me. I
haven't heard nearly as many stories as you have, but
I've never heard about the being on a stage like, oh, yeah,
that's a little mind blowing to me. Probably because of
a dream I had, not a kind of familiar actually,
(29:03):
but yeah, that's the whole thing about the The indie
experiencer's perspective is how how much has changed? And I
wish that everybody could understand that this this, this planet, this, well,
(29:23):
the planet may be forever, but the our life, our
time on this planet is not forever. And it just
helps you figure out, Okay, what is really more important.
So like the little day to day annoyances really are
not that important, but taking care of your loved ones
is important. You know, there's just the whole. And the
(29:44):
lack of fear of death is also like you live
better if you're not afraid of dying.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, you can live life more fully because yeah, I
felt like before when I was so scared of dying
that yeah, I kept limiting myself because oh that's not safe.
Oh that's not safe. And yeah, it's it's so much
more enjoyable. And you know, the other things too, is yeah,
they become less materialistic, you know, not as concerned about money,
(30:18):
and they have they put more emphasis on service to others.
They're more loving and compassionate, and they'll become more spiritual
but less dogmatically religious. And they have a greater self acceptance,
I think, a self love for themselves. That you know,
(30:39):
I think a lot of our public is craving to
feel much more confident and that they're okay as they
are they're perfect as they are and that kind of thing.
So yeah, but I did want to mention, Yeah, she
wrote a book, Natalie did, and it's called Application of
(31:00):
Impossible Things. And she didn't wait very long after writing it,
and yeah, I don't know. To me, it's almost like
I would read about two and a half pages and
then I felt like, oh, wow, I really have to
process what she's saying, you know. So it seems like
she wrote it in a way to help us kind
of move us along a little bit.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
But yeah, I think, and yes, I was gonna say.
That's another thing I hear from experiencers is they come
back with a lot of them, not all of them,
but they'll they'll come back with more of a sense
of purpose or maybe they don't know exactly why they're
still here, but they know that there's something bigger they're
(31:39):
supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, and yeah, there's just so many experiences like the
one that really I still think about a lot is
may you It?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
And she.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Was twenty two years old. She's with her cousin James
and a friend from India, Rashod, and they're cutting fodder,
corn fodder or whatever in this field because she lived
on a farm, and as they're cutting, one was up
on the truck and then holding her one of her
(32:22):
arms or hands, and then she's reaching down off the
truck to help her cousin, James, who was unhooking the
metal gate, when lightning struck the gate and it went
through all three of them. So all three crossed over
at the same time, which I just feel like it
tells us so much about near death experiences. So they
(32:44):
all cross over, and you know, she's feeling like, wow,
this is a very masculine like environment. It was like
a big stone room they were in. She couldn't even
see the top of the ceiling because it seemed like
it was kind of gloomy and dark. And but she's,
you know, she sees her other two, you know, whe
(33:07):
her the cousin and the friend, and she's realizing, oh,
she's also picking up on what they're seeing. And they
felt it was like a King Arthur's castle, so, you know,
so they and they start to go and then they
eventually see that there's a light opening at this other end,
(33:27):
so they all three start going there and they go
through and it's this beautiful valley and there's mountains in
the background, and they see a brighter light that starts
to kind of take some form at the back of there,
and she sees it as a Viking valkyrie woman who
(33:50):
she realizes because her family was more matriarchal, and that
this Viking valkyrie woman has been helping her family for
generations and especially the women. And then her cousin sees
his deceased father who's all dressed up in his able uniform.
(34:13):
And then the East Indian friend he's seen it as
if this is Buddha. So but yet they could all
they all knew what each other was seeing at the
same time. And it just tells us how connected we are,
you know. And that's the one thing that usually most
(34:35):
in the years realizes we're all one. We're all connected
to the one.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
But did all three come back?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So they did all three come back? I mean there
was more to their experience. Like Rashad was told it
was his time to die, but he said, well, then
why are these other two with me? You know, why
may with me? And he was told that it was
because they loved him so much that they wanted to
(35:07):
help escort him across. But yes, they all ended up
coming back excuse me. And actually Rashad didn't die for
I think it was two more years, but he ended
up going back to India kind of you know, finalizing
his family affairs, and then he became an acidic aesthetic
(35:30):
like monk that apparently that's more common in India, and
he would just travel around, you know, until he died.
But the other two knew exactly when he died because
they were so connected still all their continents apart. And
then James he was also told that he was going
to die, but not as soon as Rashad, and he
(35:53):
died I think three years later because when they were
checking them out from the life means strike like medically
after their experience, they founded he had a brain tumor,
so that's what he died of and then may live
for several decades after. But yeah, I just found that fascinating.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah that is that's an amazing story. I want to
use the word incredible, but then I don't want to
be incredulous like this, Yeah, it's just amazing. Okay, So
tell me a little bit more about Ian's meetings, Like
what what if somebody just came to a meeting, say
(36:36):
they're either super curious like you were, or they have
experienced near death moment, Like, what can they expect if
they come to a meeting?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Mm hmm, Well, and it depends because we have a
lot of different groups all around the United States and
some in other countries, and we have since COVID, we
have a lot of online groups too, so people can
just join. They just have to create an email, you know,
put them in their email and create a password. But
the sharing groups are free online and I think they
(37:10):
usually last an hour and a half and they can
they just need to sign up to whichever one they want.
And we have some theme groups too, so there they
could enter online and they can share if they want.
They don't have to, but others are there to share too,
so they do try to give everybody a chance to
(37:33):
you know, share some then the on the ground groups
like mine, Yeah, any anybody's welcome. I guess that's the
only downside to us having near death in our you know,
organization's title or nonprofits title, because I've heard several people
feel like, well, I haven't had a near death, Can
I come? Oh? Definitely, because that's that's what the boat
(37:56):
I was in. And yeah, anybody's free to come and besides,
I think spiritually transformative or out of body experiences, Gundalini experiences.
I mean, a lot of them are going to find
there is a lot of similarity. Yeah, a lot of
similarities to their experiences or after effects or and then
(38:20):
we have an annual Oh so yeah, so they came
to my underground group. Yeah, they I try. I have
a speaker every month, but since COVID a lot of
times there I have to zoom them in. And yeah,
they can either listen to the speaker for usually about
an hour, and then they can ask questions afterwards. And
(38:42):
the benefit of an on ground group is then they
can ask them go up and ask the experience or
after you know, some of their burning questions that I
always wanted to know. I mean they can ask them
in the sharing groups too some but yeah, and then
we have our annual conference. The annual conference. This year
it's going to be in Chicago, and we try to
(39:02):
move it around the United States every year to reach
more end of years. And yeah, that is great. That
is like a four day conference, and we also have
an earlier day, a fifth day that's workshops for anybody
that wants to go. But those those are extra cost,
(39:22):
and yeah, it's going to be in Chicago, actually oak
Brook near Chicago, and four days of talks hearing from experiencers.
And we usually have several different tracks going on at
the same time, like a lot of times a lot
three different speaking tracks. So that's a lot of you know,
talks to hear. And why most people they if they
(39:45):
come to the conference, they still can't hear them all
because you know, they can't be in three rooms at
the same time. So we do have the recordings are
given to them after the conference, and but ah, to
be in that energy of several hundred experiencers I've had,
Like at our last conference, I had so many people
(40:06):
come up to me and say, I don't want to
go home, you know, because the energy is so high.
They kind of don't want to go back to their
reality their old life there. But yeah, anyways, it was
great and since well, we had a Netflix special called
Surviving Death several years ago and that really created a
(40:29):
lot plus COVID. COVID actually created a lot of people
coming and calling us because yeah, they were scared and
they really wanted to know what does happen afterwards. Also,
people will call like near death experiencers who feel so alone,
(40:51):
They feel so isolated because they don't feel like they
can talk to their family. Their family feels like their
experiences too far out there for them. They don't understand
it because they haven't had one. And yeah, it's just
very helpful for them to come to our conferences or
(41:12):
go to the online sharing groups or on ground because
there they have a lot of people they can talk
to and who understand what they've gone through. Yeah, it's
very helpful. And they feel because I've had several calls,
well they're calling and they feel like they're going crazy
because nobody else seems to, you know, be having this,
(41:33):
or they can read other people's thoughts and it's really
a weight on their shoulders because they don't want to
be able to you know, they're not trying to interfere
in anybody else's life, but they're so opened up that
they just have those abilities and stuff. And so sometimes
(41:54):
after if it's soon after an experience, they may avoid
getting into too many many public settings just because there's
so many people and they're you know, it's hard to
deal with everybody's thoughts and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
When is the conference this year?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
It's we always try to do it over Labor Day weekends,
so it's August twenty seventh through August thirty first, and yeah,
it's it's wonderful. And we do have like some of
the end of years, you know, come back with healing gifts,
and so we do have healers, well we call them
(42:34):
energy healers and talk healers, and so the energy healers,
you know, you can schedule like it's only I think
it's twenty dollars for twenty dollars for or maybe it's
eighteen dollars for a twenty minute session. I have to
look at the new prices, but yeah, so you could
sign up for several twenty minute sessions like with different
(42:57):
healers and try that out. So, yeah, the talk healers,
you know, they may be doing mediumship, they may be
doing like psychotherapy if that's their thing, all different kinds
of things. And then the energy healers, yeah, they're more
doing similar to reiki, energy healing or different things. Like
(43:18):
last year I had I went to a woman who
she does voice she does voice things, and she called
it light language that she was pulling in.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I just recently interviewed someone who does that. So that's
the only reason I even know what that is.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah. So, I mean it's fascinating. There's so many different
types that I know I'm not doing it justice right now.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
That's okay, It's it's all sounds very interesting, and I'm
hoping that somebody who's listening will will you know, go
to the conference and have some amazing experiences tell me
about your book.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Oh yeah, Well, I mean, you know, this was interesting.
I have never written a book before, and I kept
feeling like I was getting these nudges from some end
of years that had passed in one in particular, and
I just was feeling like, oh my god, I am
not worthy to be, you know, writing this or writing
(44:30):
a book. And I mean, well, I love the subject
and I feel like I have, you know, learned so
much from them. But yeah, and so then I went
to somebody else, like I went to a medium that
I trusted in. I don't even know if I asked her,
and she said, oh, I see, you're supposed to write
(44:52):
a book and you're supposed to have it ready for
sale at the conference. And I'm really you know, but yeah,
so I and I'm like, oh my god, how am
I going to find the time because we were already
starting to you know, gear up for our next conference
last year. And yeah, so I figured, okay. I asked
(45:17):
the literary agent who does a lot of these types
of books, and she, I said, you know, God, you know,
how am I going to do this? And she said,
you know a lot of her like spiritual authors, they
wake up at about four am, really early in the morning,
and then they just start you know, typing or whatever
and feel like, you know, they connect and have the
(45:39):
information come through them. So yeah, I would wake up
anywhere from two am to four am, and I would
start writing. And that's what I did for god several
months because I started like mid January and we were
(46:00):
told we had to have it done by July fifteenth.
So that's that's what I did. Yeah. Wow, it was yeah,
and then halfway oh my gosh. Yeah, sometimes I wonder, oh,
I don't know how healthy though was, but you know, yeah,
I get I would get energized, you know, just thinking about,
oh my god, I want to put this one in
(46:21):
and want this and actually there were so many more
that I wanted to put in here. But she did
end up recommending an editor halfway through, and and so
he was he was at least good about saying no,
I don't know, No, that'll be booked too well. And
so yeah, then I did hear that after I got
(46:44):
another reading not too long ago, and they said, oh,
I see, you're going to write two more books, and
I laughed. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, right, you know.
And the very next day a professor called me and
he said he has in formation from may Ewlett that
he was given and he considered writing a book on it,
(47:06):
but she's now passed and he just decided not to.
So he sent me that information. And so I've been
going through it some and yeah, I will see.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
So there is another and that the current book is
indes Unveiled and Insiders look into the Mysteries of Near
Death Experiences. Yeah, and where can people buy that?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Oh? Amazon, Amazon. And I want to say all my
proceeds I'm giving back to ions because I know I'm
going to get choked up at this part, but I
am so grateful to near death experiencers for I mean
to open themselves up and to share their most vulnerable moments,
(47:56):
and you know they're not Oh I don't know. I
just get so choked up because that's pretty hard to do. Yeah.
So anyways, I'm just so grateful for them because I
feel like they help saving my sanity and yeah, I
feel like they can really help us move forward. And
(48:19):
they're all about love, unconditional love, that that's the key.
And they come back realizing, you know, I mean they
felt that unconditional love and yet go to one of
our conferences and where so many hundreds of endi years
are trying to emulate to others that unconditional love. It's
(48:41):
just like, oh my god, this is what the world
could be like. Yeah, so you know, and hopefully everybody
takes that back to their homes when they leave and
tries to do the best. And that that's what I'm
hoping to do with this book is help people realize
there's so much wisdom in these NDEs and they can
help people's lives.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I love that and just I totally get it, and
I almost got choked up with you. So I'm trying
not spink too hard right now. But yeah, okay, so Amazon,
I'm trying to make sure I have everything covered before
I let you get back to your day. So we've
got the book, We've got Amazon, we have the conference.
(49:24):
I'm going to link to Ion's website.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah, for the conference, we do sort of have a
separate web website. So it's called conference dot ions dot org.
So you just put the word conference in the dot
before our regular website ions dot org and the on
the ground or I mean the online groups. That is,
(49:49):
I sgo dot before ions dot org. So is go
dot ions dot org or okay, And you know, they
can always call all the office here, you know, and
you know, because we often talk to experiencers, and you know,
we have family members that call too. Because now that
(50:12):
a lot of youtubes are out there, I've had some
spouses call and say, oh my god, I know that
my spouse had a near death experience. But it's kind
of like this post doesn't want to hear it at
that point. Yeah, and but yeah, so they're dealing with that.
So you know, we have we can offer support and information. Yeah,
(50:35):
it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
I am so grateful that you came on. I know
I said this at the beginning, but I really mean it,
so I say it over and over. I just that's
one of those things I do. But I am so
grateful that you took time out of your day, like
it is the middle of a Wednesday afternoon, and uh,
we're able to come on and share all of these
experiences and share your story because you shared a lot
(51:00):
of personal information too, And I just want the listener
to understand that, like you said, you don't have to
be a near death experience er to feel the benefits.
You just have to open yourself up to listening to
the near death experiencers.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
And oh, go ahead, go ahead, no, go ahead. Well,
and I was going to say, yeah, one experiencer I
was talking to him. His name is Dave Bennett and
he drowned and his experience is amazing too. He was
actually Morgan Freeman had him on his UH special that
he had for a while telling his experience. But I
(51:42):
asked him, I said, oh, you know, it feels like
there's an energy that comes, you know, through your voice.
And he said yeah, he said, he feels like his
heart chakra opens up and it just you know, comes through.
So I definitely feel that's the case.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Is so awesome. Thank you again.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Oh okay, thank you for this opportunity, and I hope
to see you in Durham sometime. We'll have to meet
sometime for lunch or whatever.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Definitely, I occasionally do come out to the Ryan Research Center,
and I think I've seen you in the office there
because you share the same building. Am I right, Yes, okay, great, Yeah,
I think I've seen you there, but I haven't. Actually,
I didn't know who you were so I can actually
talked to you. But yeah, so I definitely am. I'm
(52:33):
definitely interested in meeting you in person and just continuing
the conversation and.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Oh yeah, oh my gosh, I know, I wish I
had hours to tell all these fascinating experiences. Yeah, but
and the spontaneous healings that some of them came back with,
like Anita or Johnny. Yeah, it's just, you know, there's
so much hope for people in these experiences.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
So thank you, thank you, Thanks again to Susan for
sharing her story, and thanks to you for listening, especially
if you stuck with me through one hundred episodes. If
you aren't interested in sharing your own paranormal experiences, or
if you have an idea for an episode topic, please
reach out through the contact form at peeppodcast dot com.
(53:17):
That's peep podcast dot com. Remember that stands for People
experiencing everyday Paranormal While you're there, Subscribe to my newsletter
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(53:40):
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(54:02):
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Stay safe and be well. The second.
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Set and the.
Speaker 5 (55:12):
Other as a sculding come.
Speaker 3 (55:26):
Don't discus they become un but when they out sput
(55:47):
set said sets as.
Speaker 4 (56:02):
Active act pass at the SA
Near death experiences are fascinating. They provide a glimpse into
what may happen after we die and deeply affect the
people who have had them. In this episode, we'll talk
with a woman who has felt their profound effects by
being in close proximity to experiencers. Welcome to the Peak
(00:50):
Podcast Episode one hundred. I'm your host, Nicole Morock, and
I'm grateful you're here. The two big ideas behind the
Peak Podcast are to show them that the paranormal is
more normal than most people think, and to connect the
science to the SI, including esp psychokinesis and intuition. In
(01:10):
this episode, you'll meet Susan Amsten, the business manager for
International Association for Near Death Studies iients for short, and
hear about her search for understanding. But first, a quick update.
If you received my newsletter last week but didn't read it,
you may want to open it. I shared how to
(01:33):
win an advance copy of Daughter of the Mystic Moon
before it's even launched on Kickstarter. One lucky subscriber will
win in a drawing on May twelfth, so if you're interested,
follow the instructions in the email. If you're not on
my email list and you want to be, go to
peeppodcast dot com and click on the button at the
(01:55):
top of the page that says sign up for the newsletter.
Back to this episode's topic, Near death Experiences. We've covered
INDs in four episodes so far. Episode twelve, Rick Norriega,
Early Childhood in DAEs and Other Paranormal Experiences. Episode twenty six,
(02:19):
Robert and Susan Mays discuss near death experiences. Episode twenty seven,
From Near Death Experiencer to Energy Healer. Episode seventy two,
John Mathis, George Carlin, Saint Michael, and New Directions. Each
conversation was unique and enlightening, and this episode is no different.
(02:42):
It's only fitting to cover one of my favorite topics
in episode one hundred. Susan Amsten is the business manager
for the International Association for Near Death Studies. She has
listened to and talked with thousands of people who have
called into the office with their d stories. She facilitates
(03:03):
monthly INDE meetings in Durham, North Carolina. Susan longed to
understand death and the afterlife since early childhood. In her
recent book, Indes Unveiled and Insiders Look into the Mysteries
of Near Death experiences. She shares many captivating stories of indes.
(03:24):
Is there a heaven? What will it be like on
the other side? Is there a God who will greet me?
Who judges the life review? The book discusses the challenges
of near death experiencers and what family and loved one's
face when someone close to them has an INDE. It
explores what it means for humanity for this phenomenon to
(03:46):
come into the wider public awareness at a time when
we are searching for answers to our greatest challenges. If
we've proven that life continues after the body stops functioning,
we will change the world by changing how we understand
ourselves as spiritual beings and dese give us a new
spiritual paradigm. Let's dive in with Susan. Hi, Susan, how
(04:12):
are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Hi? I'm doing great, Nikki, how.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I'm doing so well? And I'm so grateful that you
are here today to talk with me about your new
book and I ends and I just this is one
of my favorite subjects and you are the interview for
episode one hundred.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Of the Peak podcast.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So wow, this is special in so many ways to me.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Great.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
First too, I appreciate that. First, I want to get
started with how did you first get interested in near
death experiences?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, I actually had first h heard and read like
doctor Raymond Moody's book Life After Life. But I had
seen some experiencers, mostly Tom Sawyer on The Donahue Show,
The Phil Donahue Show That's going way back, and I
could not get enough. I was so entranced by what
(05:18):
they had to say. But back then it was really
difficult to find any information about near death experiences. And
so I ended up going through a period of my
life where I started having panic attacks and they feel
like you're going to die because you don't. You have
(05:39):
no control over them. You don't know when they're going
to happen. But I had a lot of things happen
during that time. I mean I had had a miscarriage
and the panic attacks started after that. I felt like
I had reached the pinnacle of my job at that time,
and I just felt like or some cracks in my marriage.
(06:01):
And so yeah, it felt like death, death, death, as
if I was staring at him the face. And then
I heard my mother's voice say, Susan, like she you know,
like a parent would yell at a child. But she
had died in nineteen sixty four when I was nine
years old. Wow, and this is when I was already married,
(06:24):
and I had not heard from her, you know, since
she since I last saw her, you know, in the
cast stuff. But that funeral scared me so bad of
death and dying and yeah, so I but I didn't
know how to deal with it. Like back then, it
(06:47):
was considered, oh the less you tell children, the better,
don't you know, tell them what's going on. And there
was a lot because the month, a couple of months
before she died, she was in the hospital on morphine.
They've been treating her for ulcers. I mean I only
learned this stuff later years years later, And yeah, it
(07:11):
turned out it was pancreatic cancer. So back then they
just pretty much closed somebody up and start giving them morphine.
But my brother and I were living alone for a
week because nobody knew that we were on our own,
and we started running out. Yeah, we started running out
(07:31):
of food, and so my brother got the courage up
at the end of the week to go and take
a cab, take a taxi. He was trying to gather
some money because we didn't have hardly any money back then,
because a woman couldn't hardly make a paycheck. You know,
that was worth supporting, you know, having a place to
(07:52):
live and supporting the food and everything else and children.
So we took this taxi to a nearby hospit Biddle,
and it was late at night on Friday night, and
pretty soon, you know, the authorities were like, what is
this kid coming. He was thirteen years old then, and
(08:12):
they're like, what is this kid coming late at night?
You know, to find his mother when you know. So anyways,
that's how the authorities found out about it. But back
then there were at that point she had been going
to alcoholics anonymous, and so too. One guy took me
(08:32):
and one guy took my brother, and so for a
couple of months we lived separate, and until then she
died and my brother could finally remember, like, oh, my
dad used to work at a car company somewhere in Michigan.
So they the police were able to find him, and yeah,
he wanted to have us back, but he himself actually
(08:57):
had all kinds of issues because he was so devastated
that his wife took his children and left him, that
his mother put him in the Pontiac Statemental Hospital and
he received electro convulsive therapy you know, shock treatment. Oh wow. Yeah. Fortunately,
he you know, ended up being able to be released.
(09:20):
And he said it was because the psychologists or psychiatrist
at a time said, and I only heard this from
somebody else, I should that he said, she told him
children belong with their mother. So that's how all of
this stuff, you know, led to me really having this
(09:43):
desire to find out more about these near death experiences
because I could tell the adults from my childhood they
did not know how to explain it to me, you know,
because I was asking him what does it mean when
you die? And they find least said, well, it's when
you quit breathing. And so then I was afraid to
(10:04):
go to sleep at night because I was afraid i'd
quit forget to forget to breathe anyway. So yeah, that's
that's the whole. So I say, really, her death was
my core experience for wanting to find out about near
death experiences, but I didn't even know what they were.
And as it turned out, forty years later, I ended
(10:25):
up finding out my mother had a near death experience. Wow. Yeah.
And so when I started really getting involved in Ions,
which I started going to Chicago Ions. I had lived
in Michigan and at that time I had been married
close to thirty one years and there were still cracks
(10:50):
in the marriage and we were going in opposite directions,
and I started I looked on the internet to find
out about atheism because as my husband was an atheist,
and they said they were going to have Howard Storm
he was going to speak at Chicago Ions. So I
drove the five hours one way, and oh, I was hooked.
(11:12):
I mean because Howard started out, as i'll call it,
an avid atheist, and then he later became a minister
after his near death experience. But yeah, so I'm trying
to think of I left anything out there. That's basically
how I got interested in ions. And then I just
(11:33):
kept going every month to their meetings and just to
go back a little bit. Like with the panic attacks.
They had prescribed me a tranquilizer that they said was
very mild, but that freaked me out too, because my
(11:54):
mother had been prescribed tranquilizers in the late fifties and
they didn't know they were addictive back then. And then
she started drinking elkhol on top of it and then she,
you know, was dead at age thirty six. So yeah,
I didn't feel comfortable taking them. So I found out
there was free counseling offered at this university because I
(12:15):
was considering going back to college. So it was only
about maybe six months. I don't even know if it
was that, and the counselor, who was a graduate student
learning to be a PhD. I think what he asked me,
if I recall, was what are you most afraid of?
(12:35):
And I realized, oh my god, I had repressed a
thought that I was going to die young like my
mother if I had children. And once I was able
to bring that to my conscious awareness, the panic attacks
went away. And so you know that was such a blessing. Yeah,
(12:56):
but so was Ian's ions for me. I feel like,
save my sanity. And so as I was going once
a month to the Chicago, I ans i'd hear all
these near death experiences, and I went and asked them.
I said, now, how can I feel that unconditional love?
(13:18):
And how come you know, how can I hear that
divine wisdom you guys hear? And it was unanimous. They
all said meditation was the key. So I started meditating,
you know, I'd go back to Michigan and start meditating.
And one of the times, after a couple of months,
I went back to another meeting and said, well, I'm
(13:40):
not hearing anything. You know, I'm not hearing any answers.
And they said, well, did you ask a question? And
it was like, oh, duh, you mean I have to
you know, participate, And then yeah, I ask a question.
And so I went back to Michigan and went into
meditation and asked should I divorce? Because I agonized for
(14:01):
several years over this, and because I loved my husband
very much, but there were we were going in opposite directions,
and this male voice came to the left side of
my head, outside of my head, and the male voice said,
do you have a marriage? And at first I was
like kind of indignant. I was like, well, yes, I've
(14:22):
been married about thirty one years. And the voice didn't
argue with me. It never told me what to do.
And I had to process that and it made me realize, oh,
just because I have a signed piece of papers saying
I'm married doesn't mean I have a quality marriage. And
we had had a lot of great years and raised
(14:44):
two sons and you know, so that that was wonderful.
But and I also started receiving clairvoyant images when I
would go into meditation, and one of them was too
lease cars and they were like just zooming right past
each other with their lights blaring, which that shows some
(15:08):
synesthesia there because lights don't make noise, right, But in
meditation I would sometimes get these synesthesia the mix of senses,
and I had to ask. There was a Spiritualist church,
and I found out that a lot of Spiritualist ministers
(15:29):
go into that field because they had had a near
death experience and they get opened up to mediumship. And
the research shows that fifty six percent of near death
experiencers will receive a spontaneous medium you know, they aren't
asking for it and they get a spontaneous mediumship message.
(15:52):
So I went to her. She was great at the
Space City, Michigan Church and Reverend Laura McLoughlin, and she
could give everybody in the church of reading. Every Sunday,
she'd give everybody a reading, but she'd be really quick
about it. She'd just give you a couple of sentences
(16:13):
kind of about where you are in your life or
things to kind of spur you on to get you
moving in your path. And yeah, because like I was
sitting there one time in church and she was reading
the person next to me, and I still wasn't quite
sure what to make of all this. Is this really
you know, a real thing? And right before she was
(16:38):
going to read me, as she's reading this other person,
I felt this energy draw come out of my third
chakra and then she gave me the reading. I was like,
oh my god, that's you know, that's probably how she
does it, either her spirit guides or whatever, or you know,
going to the next person before she's done saying the
first first person before me. And I asked her, you know,
(17:02):
because on Wednesdays most of those places will have a
medium ship like courtse where people can practice, and so
I asked her what that meant and she said, well,
one cars you, one police cars you, the other police
cars your husband, and you're going one hundred and eighty
degrees in opposite directions. So then it was an easy,
(17:25):
easier decision for me. Is yeah, that's what I needed
to do. And then I just kept going for several years,
but I started feeling these changes like that I needed
to take an early retirement from this corporation because I
really didn't want to make this particular corporation richer, and
(17:46):
I decided, Okay, I'm going to take an early retirement
after I divorced, and then I moved to Tucson and
I started the two helped co found and cod facilitate
the Tucson and Phoenix groups Ions Groups, and that was
so much fun. I mean, I just love that. I
(18:08):
felt like, oh good, at least I feel like I'm
doing something worthwhile for humanity to help give near death
experiencers a platform to talk about their experience and get
their message out to the public. And plus, I mean,
I learned a lot. And I never started a group
(18:30):
in Michigan because I didn't have the confidence that me,
as a non near death experiencer, could do that. But yet, yeah,
now I find it is possible. Now I run the Durham,
North Carolina Ions Group, and yeah, it's just such a blessing.
I've met so many wonderful people and they all, you know,
(18:53):
their ndaest have a lot of similar characteristics, but they're
all unique to that person, and they oftentimes come back
with gifts like healing or you know, there's a lot
of after effects. I mean, they start getting psychic impressions,
(19:15):
they may start having downloads of information. There's all kinds
of things. They may get glimpses of past lives, or
we have some that have glimpses of future lives. Because
when you get in that space like they were in
in a near death experience, there is no time. You're
(19:36):
just in the now. Everything's happening all at once and anyways,
I just feel like near death experiences have so much
that the general public can listen to and learn from
very you know, a lot of wisdom there. And actually
one of our co founders, doctor Kenneth Ring, he called
(19:57):
it the benign virus that non near death experiencers can catch.
Like he said he caught as he would listen to
near death experiencers tell their experience, he felt like he
started to have some of their similar after effects, like
he lost his fear of death, and he started becoming
(20:20):
more altruistic. He wanted to help humanity and not just
worry about his own materialistic issues. And you know, there's anyways,
there's several other after effects too. But yeah, that was wonderful.
So now I realize, Okay, so I'm a benign virus person.
(20:42):
But also I'm called spiritually transformative experiencer an steer as
we do all these acronyms, and yeah, because I feel
like I changed, and that's the qualification or what would
I say, the indicators of how much has the person
(21:03):
changed their life, And so yeah, I totally changed my
life from that point and hopefully I'm still changing and
progressing in ways, and meditation is still very important to me,
and I still get I'll get some precognitive things. I've
(21:27):
also had some precognitive dreams. And I really think everybody
does have these abilities, but unfortunately, I think we're our culture.
It's almost it's just not given any value or importance.
Or maybe it's because we're being raised by parents who
(21:48):
they're just not familiar at all. Either they're not as aware.
So I really look forward to the future where more
parents and children can be raised recognizing they already have
these abilities. They can already do telepathy. And I look
(22:08):
back and my oldest son, I remember when he was
either three or four, he started talking about this guy
and he was talking. I don't know if he was
talking to him or what. And now I look back
and I think, oh my god, he was taught that
was a past life. He was, you know, checking into
or whatever. So yeah, I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That is amazing. And I do feel like you have
telepathy because while you were talking, you answered the questions
I was going to ask. So that's awesome. So going
back to the first part of your story, you and
this may just be a really quick throw back to it,
but you said you heard your mother's voice. When you
(22:56):
heard your mother's voice, did you realize that she was
actually calling to you, or did you have one of
those oh my gosh, I'm going crazy moments.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I thought I was going crazy because I mean I
knew my dad had been in a mental institution for
a while, and I thought, oh my god, you know,
maybe I've somehow got some of that. And then my
mother he or she had been on tranquilizers. But she
had a just a really terrible childhood. I grew up
in the dustbel days they lost the farm. She was
(23:27):
the oldest of like ten or nine kids, and yeah,
it just not a fun childhood.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
At what point did you realize that maybe she actually
was calling you or did you ever come to that realization?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, I eventually did. It's like oh, duh, another dumb moment.
But yeah, it took me several years. It took me
several years and a lot of learning about near death
experiences and learning from that spiritualist minister, and yeah, it
(24:02):
took me a while. But I boy, once you're there,
it's like, oh my god, it feels like you understand
how the world works better or this system that we're in.
You feel like you can understand it better. And I
feel like I'm not as fearful about the future and
(24:23):
things like that, even though I know a lot of
people have been really distraught, you know, by what's going
on in the world right now, and I just feel
like a lot of end of years they'll say everything
is working out. It's kind of like, which perspective level
are we going to be at? Are we going to
be at the human being level, which is lower, or
(24:45):
are we going to go up higher to maybe our
guide's level or an angel's level. And you know you
can keep going up. Well, and if you think there
is an omniscient god level, well, wow, what a whole
different viewpoint that's going to have compared to our human
being level. And I think it's kind of like when
(25:05):
you had children. You know, your children may see things
at a certain viewpoint when they're just little, and things
may seem horrible to them that they have to do.
But yet yeah, now that they're older, they can appreciate, Okay,
that was worth it.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
What Yeah, the homework that you didn't want to play outside.
A lot of us are still like that as adults,
just bigger issues instead of that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, Like I have to laugh. Natalie Sudman and nd
Ear who she had gone to Iraq as like a
civil engineer type person, and I think her friends and
courage you're like, oh, it'll be fun. And what happened
was as she's in this convoy, you know, train of vehicles,
(25:55):
I mean, she'd been working there. I don't know if
it's like a year and a half or something in
Iraq and they were like doing rebuilding and stuff like that.
And as she's traveling in this convoy vehicle and IOD
device or ID I'm trying to remember which the right acronyms. Yeah,
device exploded underneath the vehicle, and you know, she called
(26:19):
it the blink environment. All of a sudden, she felt
like she just blinked. I mean, because she had been
kind of falling asleep as the driver's drive in the vehicle,
and you know, she had her arm on the the
side of the door there, and all of a sudden,
next she blinks and she's standing on this stage like
I think it was ten feet by twenty feet and
(26:41):
there's a hole like just so many beans. It was
almost like a stadium. And they were all expressing admiration
to her, and she felt like, what, I'm here in
my bloodied camouflage. She called them cammis, and she felt like, what,
I was just doing my job, and yet they were
(27:03):
just yeah, they were just so grateful expressing all this
love to her. And anyways, yeah, and so she had
a lot of important elements too, like when she was
coming back into her body after she had gone like
to a healing environment. I think she called it R
(27:24):
and R rest and rejuvenation or something. And they were
even joking with her, they said, well, how do you
want to go back? Like what you know, what ailments
do you want to go back with? And she was
even she had trouble with her eye, and she thought, oh, yeah,
I could be interesting in going back. I just want
to eye and her wrist and you know, but in
(27:46):
that environment, because they you know, they look at it
a whole different perspective. They were actually laughing about some
of these Oh would she want to experience this or
would she want to experience that? So anyways, she she
did come back with a few ailments and NPTSD that
she wanted to try to help to learn veterans to
(28:09):
help them. But yeah, she's starting to come back into
her body. She said. The whole scene was like frozen,
like it's still. It was like everything was stopped, almost
like in a muse movie, how you can stop it
at any point and you see everything stay, so all
(28:29):
the people were not moving and all that, and then
when she got back into her body, then it's back
to normal. I mean, it's Oh, it's just so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
That is that's a very unique story to me. I
haven't heard nearly as many stories as you have, but
I've never heard about the being on a stage like, oh, yeah,
that's a little mind blowing to me. Probably because of
a dream I had, not a kind of familiar actually,
(29:03):
but yeah, that's the whole thing about the The indie
experiencer's perspective is how how much has changed? And I
wish that everybody could understand that this this, this planet, this, well,
(29:23):
the planet may be forever, but the our life, our
time on this planet is not forever. And it just
helps you figure out, Okay, what is really more important.
So like the little day to day annoyances really are
not that important, but taking care of your loved ones
is important. You know, there's just the whole. And the
(29:44):
lack of fear of death is also like you live
better if you're not afraid of dying.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, you can live life more fully because yeah, I
felt like before when I was so scared of dying
that yeah, I kept limiting myself because oh that's not safe.
Oh that's not safe. And yeah, it's it's so much
more enjoyable. And you know, the other things too, is yeah,
they become less materialistic, you know, not as concerned about money,
(30:18):
and they have they put more emphasis on service to others.
They're more loving and compassionate, and they'll become more spiritual
but less dogmatically religious. And they have a greater self acceptance,
I think, a self love for themselves. That you know,
(30:39):
I think a lot of our public is craving to
feel much more confident and that they're okay as they
are they're perfect as they are and that kind of thing.
So yeah, but I did want to mention, Yeah, she
wrote a book, Natalie did, and it's called Application of
(31:00):
Impossible Things. And she didn't wait very long after writing it,
and yeah, I don't know. To me, it's almost like
I would read about two and a half pages and
then I felt like, oh, wow, I really have to
process what she's saying, you know. So it seems like
she wrote it in a way to help us kind
of move us along a little bit.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
But yeah, I think, and yes, I was gonna say.
That's another thing I hear from experiencers is they come
back with a lot of them, not all of them,
but they'll they'll come back with more of a sense
of purpose or maybe they don't know exactly why they're
still here, but they know that there's something bigger they're
(31:39):
supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, and yeah, there's just so many experiences like the
one that really I still think about a lot is
may you It?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
And she.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Was twenty two years old. She's with her cousin James
and a friend from India, Rashod, and they're cutting fodder,
corn fodder or whatever in this field because she lived
on a farm, and as they're cutting, one was up
on the truck and then holding her one of her
(32:22):
arms or hands, and then she's reaching down off the
truck to help her cousin, James, who was unhooking the
metal gate, when lightning struck the gate and it went
through all three of them. So all three crossed over
at the same time, which I just feel like it
tells us so much about near death experiences. So they
(32:44):
all cross over, and you know, she's feeling like, wow,
this is a very masculine like environment. It was like
a big stone room they were in. She couldn't even
see the top of the ceiling because it seemed like
it was kind of gloomy and dark. And but she's,
you know, she sees her other two, you know, whe
(33:07):
her the cousin and the friend, and she's realizing, oh,
she's also picking up on what they're seeing. And they
felt it was like a King Arthur's castle, so, you know,
so they and they start to go and then they
eventually see that there's a light opening at this other end,
(33:27):
so they all three start going there and they go
through and it's this beautiful valley and there's mountains in
the background, and they see a brighter light that starts
to kind of take some form at the back of there,
and she sees it as a Viking valkyrie woman who
(33:50):
she realizes because her family was more matriarchal, and that
this Viking valkyrie woman has been helping her family for
generations and especially the women. And then her cousin sees
his deceased father who's all dressed up in his able uniform.
(34:13):
And then the East Indian friend he's seen it as
if this is Buddha. So but yet they could all
they all knew what each other was seeing at the
same time. And it just tells us how connected we are,
you know. And that's the one thing that usually most
(34:35):
in the years realizes we're all one. We're all connected
to the one.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
But did all three come back?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So they did all three come back? I mean there
was more to their experience. Like Rashad was told it
was his time to die, but he said, well, then
why are these other two with me? You know, why
may with me? And he was told that it was
because they loved him so much that they wanted to
(35:07):
help escort him across. But yes, they all ended up
coming back excuse me. And actually Rashad didn't die for
I think it was two more years, but he ended
up going back to India kind of you know, finalizing
his family affairs, and then he became an acidic aesthetic
(35:30):
like monk that apparently that's more common in India, and
he would just travel around, you know, until he died.
But the other two knew exactly when he died because
they were so connected still all their continents apart. And
then James he was also told that he was going
to die, but not as soon as Rashad, and he
(35:53):
died I think three years later because when they were
checking them out from the life means strike like medically
after their experience, they founded he had a brain tumor,
so that's what he died of and then may live
for several decades after. But yeah, I just found that fascinating.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah that is that's an amazing story. I want to
use the word incredible, but then I don't want to
be incredulous like this, Yeah, it's just amazing. Okay, So
tell me a little bit more about Ian's meetings, Like
what what if somebody just came to a meeting, say
(36:36):
they're either super curious like you were, or they have
experienced near death moment, Like, what can they expect if
they come to a meeting?
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Mm hmm, Well, and it depends because we have a
lot of different groups all around the United States and
some in other countries, and we have since COVID, we
have a lot of online groups too, so people can
just join. They just have to create an email, you know,
put them in their email and create a password. But
the sharing groups are free online and I think they
(37:10):
usually last an hour and a half and they can
they just need to sign up to whichever one they want.
And we have some theme groups too, so there they
could enter online and they can share if they want.
They don't have to, but others are there to share too,
so they do try to give everybody a chance to
(37:33):
you know, share some then the on the ground groups
like mine, Yeah, any anybody's welcome. I guess that's the
only downside to us having near death in our you know,
organization's title or nonprofits title, because I've heard several people
feel like, well, I haven't had a near death, Can
I come? Oh? Definitely, because that's that's what the boat
(37:56):
I was in. And yeah, anybody's free to come and besides,
I think spiritually transformative or out of body experiences, Gundalini experiences.
I mean, a lot of them are going to find
there is a lot of similarity. Yeah, a lot of
similarities to their experiences or after effects or and then
(38:20):
we have an annual Oh so yeah, so they came
to my underground group. Yeah, they I try. I have
a speaker every month, but since COVID a lot of
times there I have to zoom them in. And yeah,
they can either listen to the speaker for usually about
an hour, and then they can ask questions afterwards. And
(38:42):
the benefit of an on ground group is then they
can ask them go up and ask the experience or
after you know, some of their burning questions that I
always wanted to know. I mean they can ask them
in the sharing groups too some but yeah, and then
we have our annual conference. The annual conference. This year
it's going to be in Chicago, and we try to
(39:02):
move it around the United States every year to reach
more end of years. And yeah, that is great. That
is like a four day conference, and we also have
an earlier day, a fifth day that's workshops for anybody
that wants to go. But those those are extra cost,
(39:22):
and yeah, it's going to be in Chicago, actually oak
Brook near Chicago, and four days of talks hearing from experiencers.
And we usually have several different tracks going on at
the same time, like a lot of times a lot
three different speaking tracks. So that's a lot of you know,
talks to hear. And why most people they if they
(39:45):
come to the conference, they still can't hear them all
because you know, they can't be in three rooms at
the same time. So we do have the recordings are
given to them after the conference, and but ah, to
be in that energy of several hundred experiencers I've had,
Like at our last conference, I had so many people
(40:06):
come up to me and say, I don't want to
go home, you know, because the energy is so high.
They kind of don't want to go back to their
reality their old life there. But yeah, anyways, it was
great and since well, we had a Netflix special called
Surviving Death several years ago and that really created a
(40:29):
lot plus COVID. COVID actually created a lot of people
coming and calling us because yeah, they were scared and
they really wanted to know what does happen afterwards. Also,
people will call like near death experiencers who feel so alone,
(40:51):
They feel so isolated because they don't feel like they
can talk to their family. Their family feels like their
experiences too far out there for them. They don't understand
it because they haven't had one. And yeah, it's just
very helpful for them to come to our conferences or
(41:12):
go to the online sharing groups or on ground because
there they have a lot of people they can talk
to and who understand what they've gone through. Yeah, it's
very helpful. And they feel because I've had several calls,
well they're calling and they feel like they're going crazy
because nobody else seems to, you know, be having this,
(41:33):
or they can read other people's thoughts and it's really
a weight on their shoulders because they don't want to
be able to you know, they're not trying to interfere
in anybody else's life, but they're so opened up that
they just have those abilities and stuff. And so sometimes
(41:54):
after if it's soon after an experience, they may avoid
getting into too many many public settings just because there's
so many people and they're you know, it's hard to
deal with everybody's thoughts and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
When is the conference this year?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
It's we always try to do it over Labor Day weekends,
so it's August twenty seventh through August thirty first, and yeah,
it's it's wonderful. And we do have like some of
the end of years, you know, come back with healing gifts,
and so we do have healers, well we call them
(42:34):
energy healers and talk healers, and so the energy healers,
you know, you can schedule like it's only I think
it's twenty dollars for twenty dollars for or maybe it's
eighteen dollars for a twenty minute session. I have to
look at the new prices, but yeah, so you could
sign up for several twenty minute sessions like with different
(42:57):
healers and try that out. So, yeah, the talk healers,
you know, they may be doing mediumship, they may be
doing like psychotherapy if that's their thing, all different kinds
of things. And then the energy healers, yeah, they're more
doing similar to reiki, energy healing or different things. Like
(43:18):
last year I had I went to a woman who
she does voice she does voice things, and she called
it light language that she was pulling in.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I just recently interviewed someone who does that. So that's
the only reason I even know what that is.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah. So, I mean it's fascinating. There's so many different
types that I know I'm not doing it justice right now.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
That's okay, It's it's all sounds very interesting, and I'm
hoping that somebody who's listening will will you know, go
to the conference and have some amazing experiences tell me
about your book.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Oh yeah, Well, I mean, you know, this was interesting.
I have never written a book before, and I kept
feeling like I was getting these nudges from some end
of years that had passed in one in particular, and
I just was feeling like, oh my god, I am
not worthy to be, you know, writing this or writing
(44:30):
a book. And I mean, well, I love the subject
and I feel like I have, you know, learned so
much from them. But yeah, and so then I went
to somebody else, like I went to a medium that
I trusted in. I don't even know if I asked her,
and she said, oh, I see, you're supposed to write
(44:52):
a book and you're supposed to have it ready for
sale at the conference. And I'm really you know, but yeah,
so I and I'm like, oh my god, how am
I going to find the time because we were already
starting to you know, gear up for our next conference
last year. And yeah, so I figured, okay. I asked
(45:17):
the literary agent who does a lot of these types
of books, and she, I said, you know, God, you know,
how am I going to do this? And she said,
you know a lot of her like spiritual authors, they
wake up at about four am, really early in the morning,
and then they just start you know, typing or whatever
and feel like, you know, they connect and have the
(45:39):
information come through them. So yeah, I would wake up
anywhere from two am to four am, and I would
start writing. And that's what I did for god several
months because I started like mid January and we were
(46:00):
told we had to have it done by July fifteenth.
So that's that's what I did. Yeah. Wow, it was yeah,
and then halfway oh my gosh. Yeah, sometimes I wonder, oh,
I don't know how healthy though was, but you know, yeah,
I get I would get energized, you know, just thinking about,
oh my god, I want to put this one in
(46:21):
and want this and actually there were so many more
that I wanted to put in here. But she did
end up recommending an editor halfway through, and and so
he was he was at least good about saying no,
I don't know, No, that'll be booked too well. And
so yeah, then I did hear that after I got
(46:44):
another reading not too long ago, and they said, oh,
I see, you're going to write two more books, and
I laughed. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, right, you know.
And the very next day a professor called me and
he said he has in formation from may Ewlett that
he was given and he considered writing a book on it,
(47:06):
but she's now passed and he just decided not to.
So he sent me that information. And so I've been
going through it some and yeah, I will see.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
So there is another and that the current book is
indes Unveiled and Insiders look into the Mysteries of Near
Death Experiences. Yeah, and where can people buy that?
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Oh? Amazon, Amazon. And I want to say all my
proceeds I'm giving back to ions because I know I'm
going to get choked up at this part, but I
am so grateful to near death experiencers for I mean
to open themselves up and to share their most vulnerable moments,
(47:56):
and you know they're not Oh I don't know. I
just get so choked up because that's pretty hard to do. Yeah.
So anyways, I'm just so grateful for them because I
feel like they help saving my sanity and yeah, I
feel like they can really help us move forward. And
(48:19):
they're all about love, unconditional love, that that's the key.
And they come back realizing, you know, I mean they
felt that unconditional love and yet go to one of
our conferences and where so many hundreds of endi years
are trying to emulate to others that unconditional love. It's
(48:41):
just like, oh my god, this is what the world
could be like. Yeah, so you know, and hopefully everybody
takes that back to their homes when they leave and
tries to do the best. And that that's what I'm
hoping to do with this book is help people realize
there's so much wisdom in these NDEs and they can
help people's lives.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I love that and just I totally get it, and
I almost got choked up with you. So I'm trying
not spink too hard right now. But yeah, okay, so Amazon,
I'm trying to make sure I have everything covered before
I let you get back to your day. So we've
got the book, We've got Amazon, we have the conference.
(49:24):
I'm going to link to Ion's website.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah, for the conference, we do sort of have a
separate web website. So it's called conference dot ions dot org.
So you just put the word conference in the dot
before our regular website ions dot org and the on
the ground or I mean the online groups. That is,
(49:49):
I sgo dot before ions dot org. So is go
dot ions dot org or okay, And you know, they
can always call all the office here, you know, and
you know, because we often talk to experiencers, and you know,
we have family members that call too. Because now that
(50:12):
a lot of youtubes are out there, I've had some
spouses call and say, oh my god, I know that
my spouse had a near death experience. But it's kind
of like this post doesn't want to hear it at
that point. Yeah, and but yeah, so they're dealing with that.
So you know, we have we can offer support and information. Yeah,
(50:35):
it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
I am so grateful that you came on. I know
I said this at the beginning, but I really mean it,
so I say it over and over. I just that's
one of those things I do. But I am so
grateful that you took time out of your day, like
it is the middle of a Wednesday afternoon, and uh,
we're able to come on and share all of these
experiences and share your story because you shared a lot
(51:00):
of personal information too, And I just want the listener
to understand that, like you said, you don't have to
be a near death experience er to feel the benefits.
You just have to open yourself up to listening to
the near death experiencers.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
And oh, go ahead, go ahead, no, go ahead. Well,
and I was going to say, yeah, one experiencer I
was talking to him. His name is Dave Bennett and
he drowned and his experience is amazing too. He was
actually Morgan Freeman had him on his UH special that
he had for a while telling his experience. But I
(51:42):
asked him, I said, oh, you know, it feels like
there's an energy that comes, you know, through your voice.
And he said yeah, he said, he feels like his
heart chakra opens up and it just you know, comes through.
So I definitely feel that's the case.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Is so awesome. Thank you again.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
Oh okay, thank you for this opportunity, and I hope
to see you in Durham sometime. We'll have to meet
sometime for lunch or whatever.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Definitely, I occasionally do come out to the Ryan Research Center,
and I think I've seen you in the office there
because you share the same building. Am I right, Yes, okay, great, Yeah,
I think I've seen you there, but I haven't. Actually,
I didn't know who you were so I can actually
talked to you. But yeah, so I definitely am. I'm
(52:33):
definitely interested in meeting you in person and just continuing
the conversation and.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Oh yeah, oh my gosh, I know, I wish I
had hours to tell all these fascinating experiences. Yeah, but
and the spontaneous healings that some of them came back with,
like Anita or Johnny. Yeah, it's just, you know, there's
so much hope for people in these experiences.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
So thank you, thank you, Thanks again to Susan for
sharing her story, and thanks to you for listening, especially
if you stuck with me through one hundred episodes. If
you aren't interested in sharing your own paranormal experiences, or
if you have an idea for an episode topic, please
reach out through the contact form at peeppodcast dot com.
(53:17):
That's peep podcast dot com. Remember that stands for People
experiencing everyday Paranormal While you're there, Subscribe to my newsletter
to keep up with a podcast and all my creative
and energetic endeavors. I usually only email it once a month.
You'll receive briefs on recent episodes, information on any upcoming appearances,
(53:40):
plus some occasional fun extras like this month's book giveaway.
If you enjoy the podcast, please give it some rating
love on your favorite podcast app, Share it with friends
and subscribes. You don't miss an episode. Ratings, reviews and shares.
Help platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify know it's worthy
of surfacing to new listeners. As we build our audience,
(54:02):
we have more chances to hear their paranormal stories. A
huge thank you to everyone who's given the show some love.
You are helping it grow. No matter how you support
the show, listening, telling others about it, or any other way,
I absolutely appreciate your being here. Thanks again for listening,
Stay safe and be well. The second.
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Set and the.
Speaker 5 (55:12):
Other as a sculding come.
Speaker 3 (55:26):
Don't discus they become un but when they out sput
(55:47):
set said sets as.
Speaker 4 (56:02):
Active act pass at the SA
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