January 29, 2025 • 50 mins
Meet Reiki Master Michael Tokarz and hear how his path has taken him around the world and led him to practice the healing modality at a prestigious university hospital. Listen in as we discuss what it’s like to be a Reiki practitioner and our hopes for the future of the practice.
Connect with Michael at… LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michaelonfire
Bluesky: flow2go
X: Vayacongaia
Instagram: opentoflow
Facebook: Open Mike Tokarz
Subscribe to Nicolle’s newsletter, find her books, or book a healing session at https://www.nicollemorock.com/
The talented Mr. Jeremy Moss http://jeremymosscomposer.com/ provides theme music (Listen through the end of the podcast to hear the whole theme song.)
Connect with Nicolle at www.peeppodcast.com and https://www.facebook.com/P.E.E.P.Podcast
Get merchandise at https://www.teepublic.com/user/peep-podcast
Connect with Michael at… LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michaelonfire
Bluesky: flow2go
X: Vayacongaia
Instagram: opentoflow
Facebook: Open Mike Tokarz
Subscribe to Nicolle’s newsletter, find her books, or book a healing session at https://www.nicollemorock.com/
The talented Mr. Jeremy Moss http://jeremymosscomposer.com/ provides theme music (Listen through the end of the podcast to hear the whole theme song.)
Connect with Nicolle at www.peeppodcast.com and https://www.facebook.com/P.E.E.P.Podcast
Get merchandise at https://www.teepublic.com/user/peep-podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On episode eighty I provided a brief introduction to reiki,
and on episode thirty five, I covered some research articles
on the benefits of reiki. On this episode, you'll meet
Michael Tokars, a reiki master doing wonderful things. Welcome to
(00:46):
the Peak Podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Morock, and I'm
thankful you're here. The two big ideas behind the Peak
Podcast are to show that the paranormal is more normal
than most people think, and to connect the science to
the side, including esp psychokinesis and intuition. On this episode,
I'm introducing you to Michael Tokar's a world traveler, teacher
(01:11):
and raki master who is fired up about the potential
that reiki has to change the world and he's helping
to open those doors. Let's dive in with Michael.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I'm a bit of a storyteller, so I was
also I guess i'll start, I'll start at the beginning.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
In I believe it was two thousand and one or
two thousand and two, my best friend who I knew
from university from the radio station.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
That's where we met.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
He ended up taking a certified massage training and in
that training was a reiki one class, and he loved
that so much he kept going with the reiki, and
then I was He taught me in in our best
our closest friends.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I took it so well.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I don't really remember any much about the early days,
but that's how I got into it through my best friend.
And then in two thousand and five. This is all
while I was living in Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Before I moved to Seattle.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
One of my other best friends gave me the master
teacher training. And side note to that, when you get
the master Teacher training, you may might not feel like
you deserve the title, but I really looked at it
as an anticipatory title, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And then yeah, I moved.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
To Seattle in two thousand and five, lived there for
four years, doing community events, mostly volunteering different events here
and there. Not really trying to make a thing, a
big thing out of doing reiki or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
It's just something I really enjoyed, and.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Moved Overseas, moved to kind of did a career change,
moved to Asia to go teaching. Thought I'd do that
three to five years and then find something else. Turned
out I love teaching, and I did that for thirteen
years before I came back here in twenty twenty three.
When I was living in I lived in Korea in
(03:26):
twenty thirteen twenty fourteen. I had some clients there wasn't
again not trying to you know, is when you live overseas.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Your visa is tied to your work.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So depending where you are, it's very frowned upon or
even illegal to take any other employment. So I was
always keep everything kind of just you know, I wasn't
advertising much until I lived in Shanghai. I got I
(03:59):
found some yoga studios that I liked and started cooperating
with them, opening up classes, you know, doing really community
education first and then you know, seeing if there was
demand for classes, and there were, and I ended up
training probably sixty or seventy people.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I was in Shanghai and my last class there was
I trained for Reiki master Teachers. I thought it was
really important to leave, and when I was leaving the place,
to leave other people that could do what I do there.
And that's one of the great things about reiki is
that it's really accessible to anyone and you can go
(04:41):
as far as you want with it, as far as
you know, if you just want to have a little
tool in your pocket for yourself and your friends to
help them feel better. You want to kind of use
it as just something to make your meditation, you know,
help you hit that like that good spot in your meditation,
(05:02):
drop you in a little faster, or if you want
to kind of just see how far this energy extends
and what you can really do with it in life.
And that's that's my mission right now, or that's part
of the mission now, that's part of the journey, and I'm.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
On that is that's awesome. I didn't realize you'd done
so much world traveling. And it's cool because reiki started
in Asia in Japan, and for you to take it
back to a different part of Asia and leave some
reiki masters behind like they can continue to spread it
as kind of a full circle moment there. That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, Asia is a big part of my my journey
as far as you know, I love speaking Chinese, I
love I would recommend going to another country for every
single person, huge part of my development and just you know,
getting different perspectives on the world. Yeah, ten of ten
would recommend awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So okay, side just a side question, sidebar. Who of
the countries you lived in over there, and I'm I'm
food oriented when it comes to travel, Like, what was
your favorite cuisine?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Ooh, I would say.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Unan in China Unan cuisine or sitch One cuisine. It's man,
it's a it's a tough call.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Before I went to Asia, I didn't like spicy food
at all, but I figured I was going to need
to learn to like it, and wow, I do. I
don't want to do without it anymore. So, Yeah, probably
the most unique blend of flavors and ingredients can find
in in ditch One Chinese cuisine.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Cuisine.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So is there anything here, like any restaurant here that
comes close.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Or yeah, I want to I want to shout out
Sister Leo's shop in Chapel Hill over at the intersection
of forty and five oh one for all you local
Triangle people. Yeah, she makes the real deal dumplings there.
Dumplings are the only things I've had there, and the
soup is just oh so spot on. So and then
(07:20):
whenever I go there, I get to speak Chinese with her,
so it makes me really happy.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And the food is just phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I bet, I mean, you pretty much light up the
room anyway when you walk into a place. But I
bet when she gets so excited when she sees you
coming in and speaking her language and excited about her food.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, I don't think it's every day you see someone
with my kind of you know, who looks like me
just speaking Chinese like I'm not fluent, but I can
do a good impression for about a minute.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
That's awesome. So when did you end up in the
Triangle area?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
That was June in twenty four.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Okay, and so you haven't been here that long and
you've already kind of made a place for yourself. So
explain how you ended up working with the hospital and
in fact, one of the best hospitals in the region
doing reiki.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
The I had targeted this area.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It was again storytelling.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So going back to fall of twenty twenty two, I
had just taken a new job in Shanghai. I had
more classes than I was supposed to have, you know,
when I accepted the job, so I was just burnt out.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I did a job.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Search for reiki on one of the job sites indeed
or whatever, and to my great surprise, listing came up
at a hospital in New York. You know, about an
hour and a half out of New York City, rowed
up a cover letter sent it. Didn't really expect to
get much, but I ended up getting an interview, and
(09:08):
it was weeks scheduled out from you know, during the
holiday times. When I finally got that, got the interview scheduled,
it just gave me thinking about that just really gave
me a goal, like, oh my gosh, I could be
(09:28):
practicing reiki in a hospital. Are you kidding me? That's
exactly what I want to do. So the more I
thought about, the more focus I became. And I knew
that was already going to be my last year in China,
so i'd finished that school contract. If I didn't get hired,
or if I did get hired, I would leave right
away and being sorry, guys, go and chase my dreams,
(09:48):
I hope you all do that too.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And so I didn't get off to the job.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
There was another position that came up in Charlotte in
the springtime, interviewed for that didn't get off for the job.
I think, well, of course there's a big hole in
my resume. You know, I should try to fill that hole.
So either a volunteer and I'll get some experience and
be more competitive next time that comes up, or I'll
(10:16):
just create my own position.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And UNC being a big.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Organization and also Duke being out here in Wake Forest
Wake Med, I figured all and all the athletics, which
we'll touch on later. I figured I'll be able to
find a niche for myself. And so before I left Shanghai,
I kind of had the triangle in mind because of
(10:47):
all those institutions. And when I reached out to someone
in the cancer program, in the Comprehensive Cancer Support program
at Lineburger, I made a phone call and it was
green light all the way. It was very well received,
There's an enthusiasm, and then it was just getting through
(11:11):
all the admin part.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
And all that jazz.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So it was really it was pretty smooth as far
as you know, doors being open or being able, like
creating the doors and then opening them.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I hope that. I hope that answers that.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, so you started, you came out and you started
as a volunteer.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yes, that's right. So I started out. It's the very
last week of June last year.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, and now you are full time employee or full.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Time depending on on what if.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
The if the budget comes through UH next year, they
could offer me up to forty hours.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So you came and you manifested a position for yourself
at an excellent hospital for cancer patients.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, and part part of why I I chose this area,
I mean because there was you know, there was the
opportunities with with Duke potentially UNC potentially the other you know,
Wake and NC State. Just like all the research around here,
all the hospitals, all the athletics, I thought.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
There was a good chance.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
And also that if I was going to get volunteer
experience anywhere, just something that slept to put on the resume,
I want to have a top hospital on there.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So yeah, I was, you know, being being a high
school teacher for a while, I kind of became sensitized
to college rankings and I had never really.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Cared about that before.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
But I also taught economics back there, and you know
when things that you know you learn studying economics. And
also you know, marketing in a way is that you know,
a college is a brand or university is a brand.
So whatever your experience is on your CV, whatever certificates
you have, that's also a brand in some way. So
(13:15):
you and c it's a really good fit.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Oh yeah, and I mean that's that's a university that's
known worldwide. So yeah, you can. I mean you could
not do much better than that. Okay, so you you
practice a different sort of reiki, like a newer version
of reiki? Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like, yeah, I mean newer. It came out.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
It's funny saying it came out like it was a
you know, software update or something. Right, came on late
twenty thirteen, early twenty fourteen. So I have been trained.
My first teachers were all Usuy reiki teachers. All my
teachers since then have been Yusui reiki teachers. But there
(14:05):
was this upgrade called Holy Fire that came out in
twenty fourteen. I took a training class, and that from
a teacher in Middleborough, Massachusetts, right next to my hometown
in twenty se you know, I was twenty seventeen, and.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Right after class, right away it was it was a.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Pretty phenomenal experience in the attunement. You know, there's antment meditation,
so there's nothing hands on, it's just the energy is
doing all.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
The work there.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And I felt like I got pushed back in the
chair like you know, imagine this this light coming down.
I'm like, okay, I think I'm doing this right. Maybe
I'm doing this right, maybe maybe wrong, but we'll see
what happened. Okay, just like a man, I'm going into
your heart. And then when it was like and I
feel it entering your chest and like I was pushed
back into the chair.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Wow, Like I like, there's this.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
The twenty pound plate, you know me Like suddenly I'd
bend to the gym and somebody dropped this this weight
on my chest. I'm like, oh my gosh. And from
there it was just wild. It's like whenever I'd do reiki,
my hands would just light up right away. I could
feel this amazing heat and electricity, and I thought, wow,
(15:18):
this is this is really something. And so there's a
lot of people doing that now. That was from that
came out through William Lee Rand of the International Center
for Reiki Training, and he had studied, you know, he
can trace his lineage back to Yusuy and so all
(15:39):
of us that are trained through William Lee Rand and
the teachers that he trained can also trace their lineage back.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
So it still yoused sueye reiki.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
In my opinion, but it's just got this other name
to help kind of differentiate this. I don't want to
say higher level energy, but this more I don't want
to say stronger, but it really does.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
It feels to me, it feels a lot stronger.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Usually I tell people it's like, you know, if you
have an electric stove and then you turn it on high.
That's that was my raiki before. It takes a little
while for that that element to heat up, but when
it does, it's it's going. Whereas the Holy Fire upgrade,
(16:31):
it made it feel like a gas stove where there's
a pilot light always on. So whether you're you're got
active hands, your intention is is locked in, is on
for a session, whether for yourself or for someone else,
it comes up right.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Away or it also feels like it works in.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
The background more. And I I feel like that's.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Been a lot of.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
You know, it's this good this good energy, this a
lot of these good ship some these good changes that
have happened in my life and happened for my students
as well.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
That's awesome. So are you teaching Holy Fire reiki at
this point?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I'm I don't have any classes. I don't advertise for classes.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
How I did it.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
In in Shanghai. Before I was starting with the the
yoga studios, when I was doing just personal classes, I
kind of just wait for, you know, one or two
people to express some interest, set up a date, and
then start, you know, recruiting or advertising, doing word of
mouth is my favorite thing as far as just getting
(17:42):
involved in classes there. I'm open to having classes. I'm
open to collaborations with really anyone, you know I do.
I'll do trainings for new teachers, and you know, I've
been doing this for I've been doing reiki for twenty years.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So you know, if there's you.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Know, anyone newer and reiki or newer to teaching, I
love to work with them because you know, I feel
like I have something valuable to add.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And I can tell that you do. So that's awesome. Yeah,
And with so, I am Usue Reiki Master. And then
the the lady that I took that training with about
a year later did the Holy Fire Attunement and she
has just her she has taken off like she now
(18:33):
is full time reiki business and just it's it does
seem to like just concentrate is the word that I
keep thinking of. Concentrate the energy. So much more and
really just power it up to a whole different level.
And so that's something and eventually I will probably do,
but I've got so much other stuff going on right now.
(18:57):
It's like it's not quite the right time. Like I'll
know what the time is.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Right, It's all in good time. That's one of my mantras.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, and it's yeah when it Because my Reiki one
class was in nineteen ninety nine and I very quickly
afterwards got engaged to somebody who was not comfortable with
all of this stuff. So I let it go. And
then it was around twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, I started thinking, Okay,
(19:28):
I really should get back into this, and then I
started the podcast and I was interviewing healers and one
of the people that I interviewed after the interview was over,
mentioned that she was going to do two, three and
masterclass pretty soon, and I was like, I think maybe
(19:49):
I want to take two. Well, within like less than
six months, I was. I had taken all three and
I was a master, but I have not taught. So
I have a time calling myself a reiki master, like
I'm at that level, but I haven't actually taught a class. Yet,
so it's yeah, so it's you know, once you're a teacher,
then you're really a master. But I've learned how to
(20:10):
do the teaching. I just have not done it yet,
and I don't think I've tapped into the right group
of people who are interested. I have. I have one
lady who I will I think she's already done advance,
so she just wants to learn how to be a master.
But I do feel like I need to do that.
(20:32):
That's going to push me to do more. I think. Anyway,
it's a long story and this is not about me,
but we're just having a riky conversation, so it's all
coming up.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, yeah, I would say.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I would say, if you haven't done the Holy Fire
upgrade without training, do it it. Major classes even better
because you know, eventually if you want to get into
two larger classes, it means you can you can train
multiple people all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I could have a whole room.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
It doesn't matter if it's if it's four people, eight people,
twelve or twenty. They all get the attunement at the
same time. So instead of having to go one by one,
spend ten to fifteen minutes with each person, it's that
same you know, twenty minute guided meditation where they're all
kind of receiving that energetic attuonement. Yeah, placement or ignition
(21:27):
is what it's called, depending on the level. So it
makes classes a lot more efficient, and it's also really
fun because one of things I like to do in
class before I start class is, you know, just put
your hands together and everyone listening, just do this right
now if you want, and put your hands together and
just kind of notice, leave a.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Little space and just observe what's there, and then.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
And try to send some energy between the hands. Do
you notice anything different? And then after the attunement we'll
do that and so you know, try to keep it
playful and see, you know what do you notice?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
That's that's difference. I really like to take that approach where.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's not just like, you know, just listen to the
master and you know, do what he says and it
should be this way, but like, really, you know, tune
in for yourself to see what you notice, because you know,
not every not everyone responds to raki the same way.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, and I've I've talked to people who had, like it,
just incredible visions while they were getting the attunements. And
then there's people like me who you know, mine's more subtle,
but I can pretty much. I can. I just hands
on rakie on, like it turns on really fast for me.
But I never had those like incredible experiences that other
(22:58):
people talk about or you know, they saw themselves in
a past life or they saw it, you know, angels
coming down. There's just so many different ways that people
experience it, and none of them are you know, it's
not that anybody is naturally better at it, it's just
that that's what they need at that moment. That's the
(23:20):
experience that they are supposed to have, and you're going
to have the experience that you were supposed to have.
And the more I've practiced, like I was doing distance
Reikie for a friend who was trying to get pregnant,
and I had a vision at that point with her
holding up a baby girl to me saying look what
we did. And she ended up having twins and one
(23:45):
was a girl. And I was like, yeah, that Reiki's powerful.
You had twins. Wow, I'm not really taking credit for that.
But when she said, what do you think I'm going
to have? I'm like, you're having at least one girl,
I already know that it turned out pretty good.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, that's that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
That's you know, that's That's what I tell my students too,
is that whatever whatever experience you have is what you're
you're supposed to have.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
It's it's the best thing for you.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So because I don't get all those things that you
talked about, you know, angels or visions or any of
this stuff, you know, my students have. So it's it's
very it's very one. It's a very kind of individual thing.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And and that's one of the things I love about
it is there's you know, you don't need to compare
and say, oh, this person's better at that because or
that person's better. We all have different gifts, and you know,
I I'm just lucky that I think maybe because I
don't have all that other stuff coming in and I
(24:50):
don't know if it's like a really good shielding or
protection or whatever you want to call it, or just
I'm just like coarsely sensitive instead of finely generally that
I can work on ten people a day. You know,
I worked the most people I've worked on on a
day was I.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Think fifteen at a music festival.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Oh wow, I wasn't tired at all. I didn't feel
like I took on anyone's energy or anything like that.
So I think that's part of the reason why I can,
you know, practice it where I do.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, that makes sense. And again, everybody's path is different.
So my path is more about this podcast and introducing
people to different healing modalities and letting people talk about
their paranormal experiences, and you know, touching on the science,
like there are clinical studies that show that reiki is
(25:42):
helpful to people who are undergoing cancer treatment, and so
that just when people say, oh, reiki, that's woo wo,
it's like, actually, now there's clinical studies about reiki, and
it is. It is one of the modalities that has
been shown to be helpful. And even if it's just
because you're helping the patient relax more so their body
(26:04):
can get into a more healing zone and and heal itself,
it's it's an important thing. And it's incredible that you
are working at a hospital like that's it's a very
important place to work. See, that's your path and you
(26:24):
know you you you knew it and you manifested it
and it's happening, and because of that, you're going to
be able to help so many people that otherwise wouldn't
get help. Because somebody close to me a year ago
was being treated for melanoma at UNC and if I
(26:47):
you know, obviously I was given him Breaki, but he
didn't have that option at that time because you aren't
there yet, you know. So like I am excited for
all the patients that you were going to touch as
you're on this journey.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah, I've had probably.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
About eighty to ninety patients so far, a number I've
given well over i'd say one hundred and twenty treatments,
so I've had a number of repeat patients and they
just keep coming back and all that. That's a really
sweet thing to have when people are like, oh, like
you're You're the best part of my week or you're
(27:31):
I always look forward to this, like, you know, to
to when I get to see you, like, oh man,
So you know, as when as you know, doing the
you know, volunteer and in the months, we're kind of
like stacking up, you know, just waiting for the administrative
part to come through for you know, because it was
a new position. So they're when you're in a part
(27:51):
of a big institution. Part of you know, if you
want to volunteer your way into a job, you got
to know that there's going to be some you know,
it's probably not going to go as fast as you'd
like it too, right, But yeah, so I'm getting a
lot of like psychic and mental rewards and plus for
anyone that's thinking about practicing more, whether it's on a volunteer,
(28:17):
however you do it, volunteer, I would totally recommend volunteering
because I think it's really important. It was really important
for me. I'll speak, I'll just speak for myself. That
I keep I practice is like fair like often on
a regular basis. It's not just like you know, once
a week at a Raiki share or you know a
(28:37):
few times a month at our Reiki share and then
just working myself. It's important to really keep that energy
flowing because it will get better the.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
More you do it.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And part of why part again, so part of why
I chose this area and U.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
N C you know with you know you and Ce
chose me. I chose now.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
But I also want to work with athletes, and so
you never know when that opportunity is going to come up.
So people that have whether it's you know athletes, student
athletes or pro athletes or just people that are you know,
you know, weekend warriors or they're they're doing their their
sports on the weekends or the weeknights league, whatever they do.
(29:25):
I know I can help them recover from injuries faster.
I know Reiki can help with that. Yeah, And so
that's that's where I ultimately want to go.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
With reiki, And.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Being at the hospital is a really important, uh step
in that, And especially in a small town like Chapel Hill,
where you know, Duke's right nearby and people talk to
each other. There's a lot of you know, cross pollination
between the two institutions, and I know, I just get
to meet the right people, and you know, then that
(29:59):
what's an volunteer?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
All right?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
See if I can work with some student athletes and see,
you know, kind of try to get a proof of concept,
you know, get some successes in that program, and then
eventually ended up end up working with those athletes and
then eventually end up working with pro athletes, and then
reiki will have its kind of I imagine Reky will
(30:23):
kind of have It's like Michael phelps with cupping moment. Yeah,
and then all the reky you know, reyki practitioners all
around are going to have more people coming to them,
and more people are going to be practicing, practicing, you know,
getting treated one getting treated. More practitioners are going to practice,
(30:43):
teaching more classes, training more people, and then you know,
I think that's a whole part of this paradigm shift
where what is paranormal becomes normal.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, and that's that's the goal here, is get people
talking about it so that it's not taboo to talk
about it, and then prove a proof of concept for
modalities like reiki so that is it's more accepted by science.
(31:16):
And then eventually science is going to figure out all
the paranormal stuff out as long as we remove that
taboo and scientists feel comfortable actually looking into it and
not afraid that you know, they're going to ruin their
reputation academically by talking about weird things. You know, quote
unquote weird things, but it's stuff that everybody experiences on
(31:40):
some level at some point. Something they can explain that
those of us who pretty much live in this world
day in day out, maybe we can't explain it scientifically,
but it's like, yeah, no, that's a thing and it's
okay to talk about it, and we want to remove
that taboo so that people, you know, if they're curious
(32:04):
about something like reiki, they aren't afraid to ask for that.
And yeah, yeah, So it's all it's all coming together eventually,
and you're definitely gonna be one of the ones that
helps get the word out.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I tell everybody it's it's my favorite thing. I you know,
I'm so lucky that I get to go do my
favorite thing whenever I want to, you know, and now
I'm getting paid for it, you know, at a mainstream institution.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
About the science thing.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
You know, I think about that a lot because I
did give a presentation to the support program. They're like
forty forty people in the department on the call, and
when I was researching it there, I had I had
so many studies that I had to I could only
(32:57):
pick like five. I think I only put like five
studies into the into the slides, and I easily could
have put twenty in there.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
And so it's funny.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
And I'm sure you've had other other people that you've
talked to and had conversations with on here tell you
something very similar where yeah, the the data is out there,
the studies are there, they're done, and there many, so many,
many of them are as rigorous as what gets reported
(33:32):
in you know, kind of the mainstream journals, and so
to me, you know, if you have a really a
scientific point of view, you want to investigate, you know, okay,
you've got to start with some observations and then you know,
see if there's you can develop a hypothesis and test
(33:54):
the hypothesis.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
You know, is is it?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
You know, you go through the scientific method for real,
instead of just saying, oh, well this it can't be
and then not looking at the data, not looking so again,
you know, all all these fields we don't have a
whole lot of research funding backing us, and we certainly
(34:19):
there's certainly a huge amount of funding against it, if
you my meaning, And so I really feel like that's
the word of mouth aspect is just yeah, well this
is true. I think it's it's much more normal for
people to have some kind of experience that they can't
(34:39):
explain through kind of the reductionist paradigm than not. So
you know, who's who's on, who's on the minority, side there,
you know, and so just you know, you can free
your thinking, you know, to take you know, what, what
(35:00):
are the full possibilities here? And is there data to
look at? You know, I think it, you know, if
you look at it scientifically, you know, this new paradigm
is already here.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Do you think that eventually you and C will do
some sort of a study on your practice?
Speaker 3 (35:21):
You know, I you know that.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I think there's so many research opportunities, and I hope
there will be some some clinicians, some researchers, people that
are skilled in study, design, in administration and all that
too really investigate this, whether it's you know, in terms
(35:44):
of relaxation therapy. And you know, I'm not so interested,
you know, I'm interested in doing all kinds of research.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
You know, the Rhine is doing great work over there
with their.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
You know, they're kind of like their mechanisms of action
and and you know, kind of studying the biophotons and
and all that that it might be I don't you know,
I'm up. I'm up for research. I think UNC might
do it. It's just a matter of finding the right
people that are interested stories for it.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, yeah, And I mean it could do again, it
could do a lot for the recognition of the modality. Like,
like I said, there are already a lot of studies
out there, but people don't know about them. But to
have a study like that done at some place as
(36:36):
prestigious as UNC hospitals, you know, that could that could
go a long way in helping.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yeah, and that can help. I'm open to it.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
And also part of the path that I identified that you know,
I think is part of the what's the best thing
and the most fun thing that I can do is
to just have these individual success stories like, oh, I
healed my knee injury, which should have taken me six
months to get back to full training form or six
(37:07):
months to get back to one hundred percent, and actually
got back to one hundred percent in four months, Yeah,
three months or whatever it might be. And so right now,
you know, because I've had some personal success with that,
and I know other other practitioners who have their own
success stories as well.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
But I really feel like.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
If there since there's a lot of good there's a
lot of good research out there, and yeah, they're there.
Definitely could use to be more, but it's getting you know,
we don't have who are we trying to convince if
we get another study in a journal, is it going
to be the twenty people that read the study? Well,
I think for for many scientific explins, if you do
(37:52):
a high you know, you publish in a journal, yeah,
you might get like three hundred people or five hundred
people reading it. But if you can have one athlete
and they've got you know how many thousands of fans
and they're like, oh, yeah, I had great training staff
and great recovery and use reiki two and people like
what what's this? And that happens over and over again. Yeah,
I think that's more powerful than anyone anyone research study.
(38:15):
But you know which is not to say I don't
want to collaborate. I do want to collaborate with and
with any researchers. And there are so many practitioners in
this area in the triangle, we are really we have
a wealth of practitioners, we have a wealth of researchers.
It's really a phenomenal area, and I think it's really
(38:40):
ripe for some fantastic research to be done.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So if somebody wanted to get in touch with you
about maybe taking a class from you or just talking
reiki in general, how would they do that.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I'm on Facebook, Instagram, x and Blue Sky, so that's
probably the best.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Way to the ill.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I respond on all those platforms, probably Facebook the most
because I have it open every day.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
It just added blue Sky because there's.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, there's more, there's more people over there, so I
want to be where the people are and I want
to I want to talk to people.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
I want to get in touch.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
And if there's anyone out there who you know you
want to learn reiki, I'd be happy to teach you
if you're in the area. I can even do remote
classes and for anyone locally. I'm looking to start a
monthly Reiki share in Chapel Hill, Carbo or Durham since
there's only one regular Reiki share. So I kind of
(39:48):
just want I want to introduce more people to this
really wonderful modality. Anyone can learn it. We're all natural
healers and this is just one way to you know,
increase stat ability. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
What what's your handle on blue Sky Twitter?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Blue Sky it's flow to the number two, Flow to
go x viya kan gaya v A y A c
O n g A I a Instagram open to flow
that was already taken on on Blue Sky by the
time I got there, so yeah, yeah, so open to
(40:27):
flow on Instagram and Facebook, open mic toe cars, t O.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
K A r Z, open mic toe cars.
Speaker 5 (40:36):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Uh money lived in in Korea in Jedju because there
are already so many mics and Michael's there, so need
be kind of a different name to be found.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
That makes sense. Did you was there anything else you
wanted to touch on before I'll let you go because
I know you actually have some reiki stuff to do today.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, but later later, I still got plenty of time.
So for anyone that's that's out there that's like, oh,
I'd like to start a program, but I don't know
where to start. Target target so yeah, target, like do
(41:20):
some targeting. So for me, I'll actually be talking about this.
I'll be giving a talk at the triad Reyki conference
in April that goes into more detail about how I
ended up at UNC and you know, the processes that
got me there. But you know, say, if you're in
a different part of the state and you know you
(41:40):
can there's there's a there's hospitals everywhere, and so part
of it is finding the specific department which you think
you might be useful at, and then going to volunteer services.
Because I went to a couple of different hospitals, first
went to their volunteers services. They didn't really understand what
(42:04):
I was doing, so I didn't really get anywhere. But
then with U n C, I kind of found the
department first and then got in you know, then they
understood what it was about and then was able to
translate over that that to volunteer services. So instead you know,
target target a department or an area, or you know,
(42:27):
it could be a veterans administration. The VA has had
success with reiki programs, with reiki therapy, so there's so
many opportunities for reiki out there. And just follow your passion,
like let the ennery, like follow what interests you and
what excites you. And that's how and that's how I
(42:49):
got to U n C. And you know, talk to people,
don't be don't.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Be too shy. I was shy for a while, but.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Then I got to think, what's what's the best that
could happen, what's the worst that could happen. The worst
that can happen is in no right you get you
get no response and what's the best that could happen? Well,
everything I ever wanted. Yeah, and so you know, how
good can it get? I think that is worth pursuing
at any you know, at any at any not any cost.
(43:22):
But that is that's the thing for me that's most
worst worth pursuing. So what's the worst that can happen?
Nothing that bad? What's the best that can happen? Well,
reiki goes mainstream, and then I end up putting myself
out of a job, right, so many reki practitioners out there.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
And that I mean, it would suck to be out
of a job, but everybody, the more mainstream we can
make healing, the better of this world.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Is going to be exactly, and that's I want to
do my part in that. And reiky is the thing
that I can do best, and then I know best, Hey,
if if I can, you know, if I can learn
something else and comes comes out even better, I'm up
for that. But for now, like reiki is the thing
for me, and you know, imaginal world where everybody is
more empowered and kinder, happier, more relaxed, less stress less anxiety.
(44:20):
We know we can help each other. I know you
can help you. I can I can help you. You know,
you've got power to help me. Everybody's kind of doing
their their things that they're their best at. That's that's
a good world. I don't mind, you know, I'll go,
you know, tend to some apple trees or an apple orchard.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I'll have some fruit trees if you know.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
That's the that's the world where you know, doing reiki
isn't special anymore. I'm here for and that's that's what
I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I I am excited for you.
Like when I when we first got introduced a few
weeks ago and I was told that you were in
the process of having this position that you and c created,
I was like, oh my god, that's amazing. I have
to talk to him. So I'm really thankful that you
(45:11):
took part of your Sunday out to have this conversation.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Well, likewise, thank you. I I do have to I
do have.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
To like shout out and you know, express my gratitude
for all the people in that department that I'm at
and the integrative medicine people over there. They helped really
create the fertile soil for me to kind of plant
myself in there, and there are a lot of people
(45:42):
that I've been working for years in different modalities, and
I think it's you know, for me, it's important to
really acknowledge that. And it's not that you know, it's
like yeah, right place, right time, because of what.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
It is for.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
And you know, I'm really such I'm so lucky and
I'm such you know, I've benefited so so much from that.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, awesome. Well, I wish you good luck on all
of this, and I know that this is just the
beginning of more great things for you.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Well, thank you. It is.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
And if I have any more, you know, if we
get some research done and I've.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Got a study to tell you about, I'd love to
come back. Oh heck yeah, tell you all about it.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Thanks again to Michael for sharing his story with us,
and thanks to you for listening. If you are interested
in sharing your own paranormal experiences, or if you have
an idea for an episode topic, please reach out through
the contact format peppodcast dot com. That's p E E
P podcast dot com. Remember that stance for people experiencing
(46:54):
every day paranormal. While you're there, subscribe to my newsletter
to keep up with the podcast and all my creative
and energetic endeavors. I only email it once a month.
You'll receive briefs on recent episodes, information on any upcoming appearances,
plus some occasional fun extras. And by the way, on
(47:15):
our next episode, you'll hear about a great event I
will be at in March. If you enjoy the podcast,
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(47:39):
we build our audience, we have more chances to hear
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No matter how you support the show, listening, telling others
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Speaker 4 (48:01):
Well, said the assist everything. It's because it.
Speaker 5 (49:00):
Didn't come that over there out there to tell the man,
I say to thee, I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
Be there anywhere there today.
Speaker 5 (49:19):
They as seven the.
Speaker 6 (49:27):
Sea, you said, the sect. Everyone say.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
There its spass and SIPs steers beside
On episode eighty I provided a brief introduction to reiki,
and on episode thirty five, I covered some research articles
on the benefits of reiki. On this episode, you'll meet
Michael Tokars, a reiki master doing wonderful things. Welcome to
(00:46):
the Peak Podcast. I'm your host, Nicole Morock, and I'm
thankful you're here. The two big ideas behind the Peak
Podcast are to show that the paranormal is more normal
than most people think, and to connect the science to
the side, including esp psychokinesis and intuition. On this episode,
I'm introducing you to Michael Tokar's a world traveler, teacher
(01:11):
and raki master who is fired up about the potential
that reiki has to change the world and he's helping
to open those doors. Let's dive in with Michael.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I'm a bit of a storyteller, so I was
also I guess i'll start, I'll start at the beginning.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
In I believe it was two thousand and one or
two thousand and two, my best friend who I knew
from university from the radio station.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
That's where we met.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
He ended up taking a certified massage training and in
that training was a reiki one class, and he loved
that so much he kept going with the reiki, and
then I was He taught me in in our best
our closest friends.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I took it so well.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I don't really remember any much about the early days,
but that's how I got into it through my best friend.
And then in two thousand and five. This is all
while I was living in Massachusetts.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Before I moved to Seattle.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
One of my other best friends gave me the master
teacher training. And side note to that, when you get
the master Teacher training, you may might not feel like
you deserve the title, but I really looked at it
as an anticipatory title, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And then yeah, I moved.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
To Seattle in two thousand and five, lived there for
four years, doing community events, mostly volunteering different events here
and there. Not really trying to make a thing, a
big thing out of doing reiki or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
It's just something I really enjoyed, and.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Moved Overseas, moved to kind of did a career change,
moved to Asia to go teaching. Thought I'd do that
three to five years and then find something else. Turned
out I love teaching, and I did that for thirteen
years before I came back here in twenty twenty three.
When I was living in I lived in Korea in
(03:26):
twenty thirteen twenty fourteen. I had some clients there wasn't
again not trying to you know, is when you live overseas.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Your visa is tied to your work.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
So depending where you are, it's very frowned upon or
even illegal to take any other employment. So I was
always keep everything kind of just you know, I wasn't
advertising much until I lived in Shanghai. I got I
(03:59):
found some yoga studios that I liked and started cooperating
with them, opening up classes, you know, doing really community
education first and then you know, seeing if there was
demand for classes, and there were, and I ended up
training probably sixty or seventy people.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I was in Shanghai and my last class there was
I trained for Reiki master Teachers. I thought it was
really important to leave, and when I was leaving the place,
to leave other people that could do what I do there.
And that's one of the great things about reiki is
that it's really accessible to anyone and you can go
(04:41):
as far as you want with it, as far as
you know, if you just want to have a little
tool in your pocket for yourself and your friends to
help them feel better. You want to kind of use
it as just something to make your meditation, you know,
help you hit that like that good spot in your meditation,
(05:02):
drop you in a little faster, or if you want
to kind of just see how far this energy extends
and what you can really do with it in life.
And that's that's my mission right now, or that's part
of the mission now, that's part of the journey, and I'm.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
On that is that's awesome. I didn't realize you'd done
so much world traveling. And it's cool because reiki started
in Asia in Japan, and for you to take it
back to a different part of Asia and leave some
reiki masters behind like they can continue to spread it
as kind of a full circle moment there. That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, Asia is a big part of my my journey
as far as you know, I love speaking Chinese, I
love I would recommend going to another country for every
single person, huge part of my development and just you know,
getting different perspectives on the world. Yeah, ten of ten
would recommend awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So okay, side just a side question, sidebar. Who of
the countries you lived in over there, and I'm I'm
food oriented when it comes to travel, Like, what was
your favorite cuisine?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Ooh, I would say.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Unan in China Unan cuisine or sitch One cuisine. It's man,
it's a it's a tough call.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Before I went to Asia, I didn't like spicy food
at all, but I figured I was going to need
to learn to like it, and wow, I do. I
don't want to do without it anymore. So, Yeah, probably
the most unique blend of flavors and ingredients can find
in in ditch One Chinese cuisine.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Cuisine.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So is there anything here, like any restaurant here that
comes close.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Or yeah, I want to I want to shout out
Sister Leo's shop in Chapel Hill over at the intersection
of forty and five oh one for all you local
Triangle people. Yeah, she makes the real deal dumplings there.
Dumplings are the only things I've had there, and the
soup is just oh so spot on. So and then
(07:20):
whenever I go there, I get to speak Chinese with her,
so it makes me really happy.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And the food is just phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I bet, I mean, you pretty much light up the
room anyway when you walk into a place. But I
bet when she gets so excited when she sees you
coming in and speaking her language and excited about her food.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, I don't think it's every day you see someone
with my kind of you know, who looks like me
just speaking Chinese like I'm not fluent, but I can
do a good impression for about a minute.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
That's awesome. So when did you end up in the
Triangle area?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
That was June in twenty four.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Okay, and so you haven't been here that long and
you've already kind of made a place for yourself. So
explain how you ended up working with the hospital and
in fact, one of the best hospitals in the region
doing reiki.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
The I had targeted this area.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
It was again storytelling.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So going back to fall of twenty twenty two, I
had just taken a new job in Shanghai. I had
more classes than I was supposed to have, you know,
when I accepted the job, so I was just burnt out.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I did a job.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Search for reiki on one of the job sites indeed
or whatever, and to my great surprise, listing came up
at a hospital in New York. You know, about an
hour and a half out of New York City, rowed
up a cover letter sent it. Didn't really expect to
get much, but I ended up getting an interview, and
(09:08):
it was weeks scheduled out from you know, during the
holiday times. When I finally got that, got the interview scheduled,
it just gave me thinking about that just really gave
me a goal, like, oh my gosh, I could be
(09:28):
practicing reiki in a hospital. Are you kidding me? That's
exactly what I want to do. So the more I
thought about, the more focus I became. And I knew
that was already going to be my last year in China,
so i'd finished that school contract. If I didn't get hired,
or if I did get hired, I would leave right
away and being sorry, guys, go and chase my dreams,
(09:48):
I hope you all do that too.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
And so I didn't get off to the job.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
There was another position that came up in Charlotte in
the springtime, interviewed for that didn't get off for the job.
I think, well, of course there's a big hole in
my resume. You know, I should try to fill that hole.
So either a volunteer and I'll get some experience and
be more competitive next time that comes up, or I'll
(10:16):
just create my own position.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And UNC being a big.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Organization and also Duke being out here in Wake Forest
Wake Med, I figured all and all the athletics, which
we'll touch on later. I figured I'll be able to
find a niche for myself. And so before I left Shanghai,
I kind of had the triangle in mind because of
(10:47):
all those institutions. And when I reached out to someone
in the cancer program, in the Comprehensive Cancer Support program
at Lineburger, I made a phone call and it was
green light all the way. It was very well received,
There's an enthusiasm, and then it was just getting through
(11:11):
all the admin part.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
And all that jazz.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So it was really it was pretty smooth as far
as you know, doors being open or being able, like
creating the doors and then opening them.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I hope that. I hope that answers that.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, so you started, you came out and you started
as a volunteer.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yes, that's right. So I started out. It's the very
last week of June last year.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, and now you are full time employee or full.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Time depending on on what if.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
The if the budget comes through UH next year, they
could offer me up to forty hours.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So you came and you manifested a position for yourself
at an excellent hospital for cancer patients.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, and part part of why I I chose this area,
I mean because there was you know, there was the
opportunities with with Duke potentially UNC potentially the other you know,
Wake and NC State. Just like all the research around here,
all the hospitals, all the athletics, I thought.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
There was a good chance.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
And also that if I was going to get volunteer
experience anywhere, just something that slept to put on the resume,
I want to have a top hospital on there.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So yeah, I was, you know, being being a high
school teacher for a while, I kind of became sensitized
to college rankings and I had never really.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Cared about that before.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
But I also taught economics back there, and you know
when things that you know you learn studying economics. And
also you know, marketing in a way is that you know,
a college is a brand or university is a brand.
So whatever your experience is on your CV, whatever certificates
you have, that's also a brand in some way. So
(13:15):
you and c it's a really good fit.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Oh yeah, and I mean that's that's a university that's
known worldwide. So yeah, you can. I mean you could
not do much better than that. Okay, so you you
practice a different sort of reiki, like a newer version
of reiki? Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like, yeah, I mean newer. It came out.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
It's funny saying it came out like it was a
you know, software update or something. Right, came on late
twenty thirteen, early twenty fourteen. So I have been trained.
My first teachers were all Usuy reiki teachers. All my
teachers since then have been Yusui reiki teachers. But there
(14:05):
was this upgrade called Holy Fire that came out in
twenty fourteen. I took a training class, and that from
a teacher in Middleborough, Massachusetts, right next to my hometown
in twenty se you know, I was twenty seventeen, and.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Right after class, right away it was it was a.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Pretty phenomenal experience in the attunement. You know, there's antment meditation,
so there's nothing hands on, it's just the energy is
doing all.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
The work there.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And I felt like I got pushed back in the
chair like you know, imagine this this light coming down.
I'm like, okay, I think I'm doing this right. Maybe
I'm doing this right, maybe maybe wrong, but we'll see
what happened. Okay, just like a man, I'm going into
your heart. And then when it was like and I
feel it entering your chest and like I was pushed
back into the chair.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Wow, Like I like, there's this.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
The twenty pound plate, you know me Like suddenly I'd
bend to the gym and somebody dropped this this weight
on my chest. I'm like, oh my gosh. And from
there it was just wild. It's like whenever I'd do reiki,
my hands would just light up right away. I could
feel this amazing heat and electricity, and I thought, wow,
(15:18):
this is this is really something. And so there's a
lot of people doing that now. That was from that
came out through William Lee Rand of the International Center
for Reiki Training, and he had studied, you know, he
can trace his lineage back to Yusuy and so all
(15:39):
of us that are trained through William Lee Rand and
the teachers that he trained can also trace their lineage back.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
So it still yoused sueye reiki.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
In my opinion, but it's just got this other name
to help kind of differentiate this. I don't want to
say higher level energy, but this more I don't want
to say stronger, but it really does.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
It feels to me, it feels a lot stronger.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Usually I tell people it's like, you know, if you
have an electric stove and then you turn it on high.
That's that was my raiki before. It takes a little
while for that that element to heat up, but when
it does, it's it's going. Whereas the Holy Fire upgrade,
(16:31):
it made it feel like a gas stove where there's
a pilot light always on. So whether you're you're got
active hands, your intention is is locked in, is on
for a session, whether for yourself or for someone else,
it comes up right.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Away or it also feels like it works in.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
The background more. And I I feel like that's.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Been a lot of.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
You know, it's this good this good energy, this a
lot of these good ship some these good changes that
have happened in my life and happened for my students
as well.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
That's awesome. So are you teaching Holy Fire reiki at
this point?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
I'm I don't have any classes. I don't advertise for classes.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
How I did it.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
In in Shanghai. Before I was starting with the the
yoga studios, when I was doing just personal classes, I
kind of just wait for, you know, one or two
people to express some interest, set up a date, and
then start, you know, recruiting or advertising, doing word of
mouth is my favorite thing as far as just getting
(17:42):
involved in classes there. I'm open to having classes. I'm
open to collaborations with really anyone, you know I do.
I'll do trainings for new teachers, and you know, I've
been doing this for I've been doing reiki for twenty years.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So you know, if there's you.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Know, anyone newer and reiki or newer to teaching, I
love to work with them because you know, I feel
like I have something valuable to add.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And I can tell that you do. So that's awesome. Yeah,
And with so, I am Usue Reiki Master. And then
the the lady that I took that training with about
a year later did the Holy Fire Attunement and she
has just her she has taken off like she now
(18:33):
is full time reiki business and just it's it does
seem to like just concentrate is the word that I
keep thinking of. Concentrate the energy. So much more and
really just power it up to a whole different level.
And so that's something and eventually I will probably do,
but I've got so much other stuff going on right now.
(18:57):
It's like it's not quite the right time. Like I'll
know what the time is.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Right, It's all in good time. That's one of my mantras.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, and it's yeah when it Because my Reiki one
class was in nineteen ninety nine and I very quickly
afterwards got engaged to somebody who was not comfortable with
all of this stuff. So I let it go. And
then it was around twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, I started thinking, Okay,
(19:28):
I really should get back into this, and then I
started the podcast and I was interviewing healers and one
of the people that I interviewed after the interview was over,
mentioned that she was going to do two, three and
masterclass pretty soon, and I was like, I think maybe
(19:49):
I want to take two. Well, within like less than
six months, I was. I had taken all three and
I was a master, but I have not taught. So
I have a time calling myself a reiki master, like
I'm at that level, but I haven't actually taught a class. Yet,
so it's yeah, so it's you know, once you're a teacher,
then you're really a master. But I've learned how to
(20:10):
do the teaching. I just have not done it yet,
and I don't think I've tapped into the right group
of people who are interested. I have. I have one
lady who I will I think she's already done advance,
so she just wants to learn how to be a master.
But I do feel like I need to do that.
(20:32):
That's going to push me to do more. I think. Anyway,
it's a long story and this is not about me,
but we're just having a riky conversation, so it's all
coming up.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, yeah, I would say.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I would say, if you haven't done the Holy Fire
upgrade without training, do it it. Major classes even better
because you know, eventually if you want to get into
two larger classes, it means you can you can train
multiple people all at the same time.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I could have a whole room.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
It doesn't matter if it's if it's four people, eight people,
twelve or twenty. They all get the attunement at the
same time. So instead of having to go one by one,
spend ten to fifteen minutes with each person, it's that
same you know, twenty minute guided meditation where they're all
kind of receiving that energetic attuonement. Yeah, placement or ignition
(21:27):
is what it's called, depending on the level. So it
makes classes a lot more efficient, and it's also really
fun because one of things I like to do in
class before I start class is, you know, just put
your hands together and everyone listening, just do this right
now if you want, and put your hands together and
just kind of notice, leave a.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Little space and just observe what's there, and then.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
And try to send some energy between the hands. Do
you notice anything different? And then after the attunement we'll
do that and so you know, try to keep it
playful and see, you know what do you notice?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
That's that's difference. I really like to take that approach where.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's not just like, you know, just listen to the
master and you know, do what he says and it
should be this way, but like, really, you know, tune
in for yourself to see what you notice, because you know,
not every not everyone responds to raki the same way.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, and I've I've talked to people who had, like it,
just incredible visions while they were getting the attunements. And
then there's people like me who you know, mine's more subtle,
but I can pretty much. I can. I just hands
on rakie on, like it turns on really fast for me.
But I never had those like incredible experiences that other
(22:58):
people talk about or you know, they saw themselves in
a past life or they saw it, you know, angels
coming down. There's just so many different ways that people
experience it, and none of them are you know, it's
not that anybody is naturally better at it, it's just
that that's what they need at that moment. That's the
(23:20):
experience that they are supposed to have, and you're going
to have the experience that you were supposed to have.
And the more I've practiced, like I was doing distance
Reikie for a friend who was trying to get pregnant,
and I had a vision at that point with her
holding up a baby girl to me saying look what
we did. And she ended up having twins and one
(23:45):
was a girl. And I was like, yeah, that Reiki's powerful.
You had twins. Wow, I'm not really taking credit for that.
But when she said, what do you think I'm going
to have? I'm like, you're having at least one girl,
I already know that it turned out pretty good.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, that's that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
That's you know, that's That's what I tell my students too,
is that whatever whatever experience you have is what you're
you're supposed to have.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
It's it's the best thing for you.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
So because I don't get all those things that you
talked about, you know, angels or visions or any of
this stuff, you know, my students have. So it's it's
very it's very one. It's a very kind of individual thing.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And and that's one of the things I love about
it is there's you know, you don't need to compare
and say, oh, this person's better at that because or
that person's better. We all have different gifts, and you know,
I I'm just lucky that I think maybe because I
don't have all that other stuff coming in and I
(24:50):
don't know if it's like a really good shielding or
protection or whatever you want to call it, or just
I'm just like coarsely sensitive instead of finely generally that
I can work on ten people a day. You know,
I worked the most people I've worked on on a
day was I.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Think fifteen at a music festival.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Oh wow, I wasn't tired at all. I didn't feel
like I took on anyone's energy or anything like that.
So I think that's part of the reason why I can,
you know, practice it where I do.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, that makes sense. And again, everybody's path is different.
So my path is more about this podcast and introducing
people to different healing modalities and letting people talk about
their paranormal experiences, and you know, touching on the science,
like there are clinical studies that show that reiki is
(25:42):
helpful to people who are undergoing cancer treatment, and so
that just when people say, oh, reiki, that's woo wo,
it's like, actually, now there's clinical studies about reiki, and
it is. It is one of the modalities that has
been shown to be helpful. And even if it's just
because you're helping the patient relax more so their body
(26:04):
can get into a more healing zone and and heal itself,
it's it's an important thing. And it's incredible that you
are working at a hospital like that's it's a very
important place to work. See, that's your path and you
(26:24):
know you you you knew it and you manifested it
and it's happening, and because of that, you're going to
be able to help so many people that otherwise wouldn't
get help. Because somebody close to me a year ago
was being treated for melanoma at UNC and if I
(26:47):
you know, obviously I was given him Breaki, but he
didn't have that option at that time because you aren't
there yet, you know. So like I am excited for
all the patients that you were going to touch as
you're on this journey.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah, I've had probably.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
About eighty to ninety patients so far, a number I've
given well over i'd say one hundred and twenty treatments,
so I've had a number of repeat patients and they
just keep coming back and all that. That's a really
sweet thing to have when people are like, oh, like
you're You're the best part of my week or you're
(27:31):
I always look forward to this, like, you know, to
to when I get to see you, like, oh man,
So you know, as when as you know, doing the
you know, volunteer and in the months, we're kind of
like stacking up, you know, just waiting for the administrative
part to come through for you know, because it was
a new position. So they're when you're in a part
(27:51):
of a big institution. Part of you know, if you
want to volunteer your way into a job, you got
to know that there's going to be some you know,
it's probably not going to go as fast as you'd
like it too, right, But yeah, so I'm getting a
lot of like psychic and mental rewards and plus for
anyone that's thinking about practicing more, whether it's on a volunteer,
(28:17):
however you do it, volunteer, I would totally recommend volunteering
because I think it's really important. It was really important
for me. I'll speak, I'll just speak for myself. That
I keep I practice is like fair like often on
a regular basis. It's not just like you know, once
a week at a Raiki share or you know a
(28:37):
few times a month at our Reiki share and then
just working myself. It's important to really keep that energy
flowing because it will get better the.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
More you do it.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And part of why part again, so part of why
I chose this area and U.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
N C you know with you know you and Ce
chose me. I chose now.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
But I also want to work with athletes, and so
you never know when that opportunity is going to come up.
So people that have whether it's you know athletes, student
athletes or pro athletes or just people that are you know,
you know, weekend warriors or they're they're doing their their
sports on the weekends or the weeknights league, whatever they do.
(29:25):
I know I can help them recover from injuries faster.
I know Reiki can help with that. Yeah, And so
that's that's where I ultimately want to go.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
With reiki, And.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Being at the hospital is a really important, uh step
in that, And especially in a small town like Chapel Hill,
where you know, Duke's right nearby and people talk to
each other. There's a lot of you know, cross pollination
between the two institutions, and I know, I just get
to meet the right people, and you know, then that
(29:59):
what's an volunteer?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
All right?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
See if I can work with some student athletes and see,
you know, kind of try to get a proof of concept,
you know, get some successes in that program, and then
eventually ended up end up working with those athletes and
then eventually end up working with pro athletes, and then
reiki will have its kind of I imagine Reky will
(30:23):
kind of have It's like Michael phelps with cupping moment. Yeah,
and then all the reky you know, reyki practitioners all
around are going to have more people coming to them,
and more people are going to be practicing, practicing, you know,
getting treated one getting treated. More practitioners are going to practice,
(30:43):
teaching more classes, training more people, and then you know,
I think that's a whole part of this paradigm shift
where what is paranormal becomes normal.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, and that's that's the goal here, is get people
talking about it so that it's not taboo to talk
about it, and then prove a proof of concept for
modalities like reiki so that is it's more accepted by science.
(31:16):
And then eventually science is going to figure out all
the paranormal stuff out as long as we remove that
taboo and scientists feel comfortable actually looking into it and
not afraid that you know, they're going to ruin their
reputation academically by talking about weird things. You know, quote
unquote weird things, but it's stuff that everybody experiences on
(31:40):
some level at some point. Something they can explain that
those of us who pretty much live in this world
day in day out, maybe we can't explain it scientifically,
but it's like, yeah, no, that's a thing and it's
okay to talk about it, and we want to remove
that taboo so that people, you know, if they're curious
(32:04):
about something like reiki, they aren't afraid to ask for that.
And yeah, yeah, So it's all it's all coming together eventually,
and you're definitely gonna be one of the ones that
helps get the word out.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I tell everybody it's it's my favorite thing. I you know,
I'm so lucky that I get to go do my
favorite thing whenever I want to, you know, and now
I'm getting paid for it, you know, at a mainstream institution.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
About the science thing.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
You know, I think about that a lot because I
did give a presentation to the support program. They're like
forty forty people in the department on the call, and
when I was researching it there, I had I had
so many studies that I had to I could only
(32:57):
pick like five. I think I only put like five
studies into the into the slides, and I easily could
have put twenty in there.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
And so it's funny.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
And I'm sure you've had other other people that you've
talked to and had conversations with on here tell you
something very similar where yeah, the the data is out there,
the studies are there, they're done, and there many, so many,
many of them are as rigorous as what gets reported
(33:32):
in you know, kind of the mainstream journals, and so
to me, you know, if you have a really a
scientific point of view, you want to investigate, you know, okay,
you've got to start with some observations and then you know,
see if there's you can develop a hypothesis and test
(33:54):
the hypothesis.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
You know, is is it?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
You know, you go through the scientific method for real,
instead of just saying, oh, well this it can't be
and then not looking at the data, not looking so again,
you know, all all these fields we don't have a
whole lot of research funding backing us, and we certainly
(34:19):
there's certainly a huge amount of funding against it, if
you my meaning, And so I really feel like that's
the word of mouth aspect is just yeah, well this
is true. I think it's it's much more normal for
people to have some kind of experience that they can't
(34:39):
explain through kind of the reductionist paradigm than not. So
you know, who's who's on, who's on the minority, side there,
you know, and so just you know, you can free
your thinking, you know, to take you know, what, what
(35:00):
are the full possibilities here? And is there data to
look at? You know, I think it, you know, if
you look at it scientifically, you know, this new paradigm
is already here.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Do you think that eventually you and C will do
some sort of a study on your practice?
Speaker 3 (35:21):
You know, I you know that.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I think there's so many research opportunities, and I hope
there will be some some clinicians, some researchers, people that
are skilled in study, design, in administration and all that
too really investigate this, whether it's you know, in terms
(35:44):
of relaxation therapy. And you know, I'm not so interested,
you know, I'm interested in doing all kinds of research.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
You know, the Rhine is doing great work over there
with their.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
You know, they're kind of like their mechanisms of action
and and you know, kind of studying the biophotons and
and all that that it might be I don't you know,
I'm up. I'm up for research. I think UNC might
do it. It's just a matter of finding the right
people that are interested stories for it.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, yeah, And I mean it could do again, it
could do a lot for the recognition of the modality. Like,
like I said, there are already a lot of studies
out there, but people don't know about them. But to
have a study like that done at some place as
(36:36):
prestigious as UNC hospitals, you know, that could that could
go a long way in helping.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yeah, and that can help. I'm open to it.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
And also part of the path that I identified that you know,
I think is part of the what's the best thing
and the most fun thing that I can do is
to just have these individual success stories like, oh, I
healed my knee injury, which should have taken me six
months to get back to full training form or six
(37:07):
months to get back to one hundred percent, and actually
got back to one hundred percent in four months, Yeah,
three months or whatever it might be. And so right now,
you know, because I've had some personal success with that,
and I know other other practitioners who have their own
success stories as well.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
But I really feel like.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
If there since there's a lot of good there's a
lot of good research out there, and yeah, they're there.
Definitely could use to be more, but it's getting you know,
we don't have who are we trying to convince if
we get another study in a journal, is it going
to be the twenty people that read the study? Well,
I think for for many scientific explins, if you do
(37:52):
a high you know, you publish in a journal, yeah,
you might get like three hundred people or five hundred
people reading it. But if you can have one athlete
and they've got you know how many thousands of fans
and they're like, oh, yeah, I had great training staff
and great recovery and use reiki two and people like
what what's this? And that happens over and over again. Yeah,
I think that's more powerful than anyone anyone research study.
(38:15):
But you know which is not to say I don't
want to collaborate. I do want to collaborate with and
with any researchers. And there are so many practitioners in
this area in the triangle, we are really we have
a wealth of practitioners, we have a wealth of researchers.
It's really a phenomenal area, and I think it's really
(38:40):
ripe for some fantastic research to be done.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So if somebody wanted to get in touch with you
about maybe taking a class from you or just talking
reiki in general, how would they do that.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
I'm on Facebook, Instagram, x and Blue Sky, so that's
probably the best.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Way to the ill.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I respond on all those platforms, probably Facebook the most
because I have it open every day.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
It just added blue Sky because there's.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, there's more, there's more people over there, so I
want to be where the people are and I want
to I want to talk to people.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
I want to get in touch.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
And if there's anyone out there who you know you
want to learn reiki, I'd be happy to teach you
if you're in the area. I can even do remote
classes and for anyone locally. I'm looking to start a
monthly Reiki share in Chapel Hill, Carbo or Durham since
there's only one regular Reiki share. So I kind of
(39:48):
just want I want to introduce more people to this
really wonderful modality. Anyone can learn it. We're all natural
healers and this is just one way to you know,
increase stat ability. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
What what's your handle on blue Sky Twitter?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Blue Sky it's flow to the number two, Flow to
go x viya kan gaya v A y A c
O n g A I a Instagram open to flow
that was already taken on on Blue Sky by the
time I got there, so yeah, yeah, so open to
(40:27):
flow on Instagram and Facebook, open mic toe cars, t O.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
K A r Z, open mic toe cars.
Speaker 5 (40:36):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Uh money lived in in Korea in Jedju because there
are already so many mics and Michael's there, so need
be kind of a different name to be found.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
That makes sense. Did you was there anything else you
wanted to touch on before I'll let you go because
I know you actually have some reiki stuff to do today.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, but later later, I still got plenty of time.
So for anyone that's that's out there that's like, oh,
I'd like to start a program, but I don't know
where to start. Target target so yeah, target, like do
(41:20):
some targeting. So for me, I'll actually be talking about this.
I'll be giving a talk at the triad Reyki conference
in April that goes into more detail about how I
ended up at UNC and you know, the processes that
got me there. But you know, say, if you're in
a different part of the state and you know you
(41:40):
can there's there's a there's hospitals everywhere, and so part
of it is finding the specific department which you think
you might be useful at, and then going to volunteer services.
Because I went to a couple of different hospitals, first
went to their volunteers services. They didn't really understand what
(42:04):
I was doing, so I didn't really get anywhere. But
then with U n C, I kind of found the
department first and then got in you know, then they
understood what it was about and then was able to
translate over that that to volunteer services. So instead you know,
target target a department or an area, or you know,
(42:27):
it could be a veterans administration. The VA has had
success with reiki programs, with reiki therapy, so there's so
many opportunities for reiki out there. And just follow your passion,
like let the ennery, like follow what interests you and
what excites you. And that's how and that's how I
(42:49):
got to U n C. And you know, talk to people,
don't be don't.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Be too shy. I was shy for a while, but.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Then I got to think, what's what's the best that
could happen, what's the worst that could happen. The worst
that can happen is in no right you get you
get no response and what's the best that could happen? Well,
everything I ever wanted. Yeah, and so you know, how
good can it get? I think that is worth pursuing
at any you know, at any at any not any cost.
(43:22):
But that is that's the thing for me that's most
worst worth pursuing. So what's the worst that can happen?
Nothing that bad? What's the best that can happen? Well,
reiki goes mainstream, and then I end up putting myself
out of a job, right, so many reki practitioners out there.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
And that I mean, it would suck to be out
of a job, but everybody, the more mainstream we can
make healing, the better of this world.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Is going to be exactly, and that's I want to
do my part in that. And reiky is the thing
that I can do best, and then I know best, Hey,
if if I can, you know, if I can learn
something else and comes comes out even better, I'm up
for that. But for now, like reiki is the thing
for me, and you know, imaginal world where everybody is
more empowered and kinder, happier, more relaxed, less stress less anxiety.
(44:20):
We know we can help each other. I know you
can help you. I can I can help you. You know,
you've got power to help me. Everybody's kind of doing
their their things that they're their best at. That's that's
a good world. I don't mind, you know, I'll go,
you know, tend to some apple trees or an apple orchard.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I'll have some fruit trees if you know.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
That's the that's the world where you know, doing reiki
isn't special anymore. I'm here for and that's that's what
I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I I am excited for you.
Like when I when we first got introduced a few
weeks ago and I was told that you were in
the process of having this position that you and c created,
I was like, oh my god, that's amazing. I have
to talk to him. So I'm really thankful that you
(45:11):
took part of your Sunday out to have this conversation.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Well, likewise, thank you. I I do have to I
do have.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
To like shout out and you know, express my gratitude
for all the people in that department that I'm at
and the integrative medicine people over there. They helped really
create the fertile soil for me to kind of plant
myself in there, and there are a lot of people
(45:42):
that I've been working for years in different modalities, and
I think it's you know, for me, it's important to
really acknowledge that. And it's not that you know, it's
like yeah, right place, right time, because of what.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
It is for.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
And you know, I'm really such I'm so lucky and
I'm such you know, I've benefited so so much from that.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, awesome. Well, I wish you good luck on all
of this, and I know that this is just the
beginning of more great things for you.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Well, thank you. It is.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
And if I have any more, you know, if we
get some research done and I've.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Got a study to tell you about, I'd love to
come back. Oh heck yeah, tell you all about it.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Thanks again to Michael for sharing his story with us,
and thanks to you for listening. If you are interested
in sharing your own paranormal experiences, or if you have
an idea for an episode topic, please reach out through
the contact format peppodcast dot com. That's p E E
P podcast dot com. Remember that stance for people experiencing
(46:54):
every day paranormal. While you're there, subscribe to my newsletter
to keep up with the podcast and all my creative
and energetic endeavors. I only email it once a month.
You'll receive briefs on recent episodes, information on any upcoming appearances,
plus some occasional fun extras. And by the way, on
(47:15):
our next episode, you'll hear about a great event I
will be at in March. If you enjoy the podcast,
please give it some rating love on your favorite podcast app,
share it with friends and subscribes. You don't miss an episode. Ratings,
reviews and shares help platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify
know it's worthy of surfacing to new listeners, and as
(47:39):
we build our audience, we have more chances to hear
their paranormal stories. A huge thank you to everyone who
has given the show some love. You're helping it grow.
No matter how you support the show, listening, telling others
about it, or any other way, I absolutely appreciate your
being here. Thanks again for listening. Stay safe and be.
Speaker 4 (48:01):
Well, said the assist everything. It's because it.
Speaker 5 (49:00):
Didn't come that over there out there to tell the man,
I say to thee, I wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
Be there anywhere there today.
Speaker 5 (49:19):
They as seven the.
Speaker 6 (49:27):
Sea, you said, the sect. Everyone say.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
There its spass and SIPs steers beside
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