May 20, 2024 • 60 mins
En un diálogo profundo con Natalia Zarama, exploramos el fascinante mundo de la Respiración Holotrópica, desentrañando su importancia terapéutica y su papel fundamental en los procesos de transformación personal.Natalia, quien ostenta una formación excepcional como médica alópata, experta en Medicina Tradicional China y maestra en Respiración Holotrópica, nos guía a través de esta poderosa herramienta que, a través de técnicas respiratorias específicas, induce estados ampliados de conciencia. Estos estados, a su vez, abren las puertas a la sanación de traumas y, en algunos casos, pueden conducir a experiencias místicas en quienes la practica
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It begins a space to know aboutthe relationships of body or mind and to
understand the potential, wisdom and intelligenceof the human body. Connect an hour
with the radio show of the physiotherapyprogram of the University of Rosario, thinking
with the body see and discover everythingthat can be done, learn and feel
(00:22):
from the consciousness of living in welcomemovement, that is, thinking with the
body, the body coming welcome tothe program thinking with the space body,
(00:46):
the physiotherapy program of the University ofRosario, from the microphones of the institutional
station, here in the Cloister,sent a warm greeting to all and all
our ber listeners today a cold dayin Bogotá. For me it is always
a matter of gratitude to be ableto carry out a new program and to
(01:10):
have the presence of each person who, from his or her space and practices
in daily life or from his orher professions, from his or her studies,
from his or her concerns, contributesso that we are better human beings
and have a more just and peacefulsociety. In the section the word to
awaken consciousness, I will make areading, obviously suggested by my guest,
(01:36):
of the text or book The Psychologyof the Future by Stanislav Groft. We
will use a reading of a smallfragment and this reading allows us to reflect
and serves as a preamble for thetopic that we will discuss today with our
guest, Natalia Sarama, with whomwe will talk about a journey inward through
(02:00):
breathing and then we will conduct asmall session in our section, taking care
of the body and movement, asmall breathing session. Well, remember that
you' re listening to us onour triple leu dot web page a radio
rosary, dot se o, justlike on broaocasting platforms, like Radio pul
(02:21):
Too Arty. Likewise, if youwant to connect with us on social networks,
you find us as a radio rosaryon Instagram, Facebook and YouTube.
In addition, on the website tripledobleu dot rosuario radio, dot seo find
the programming of the station. Ifyou are late for this broadcast or if
(02:42):
you miss any of our programs,remember that everyone is staying as a radio
rosary on the Spreaker, Spotify andApple Podcast platforms. Well, always my
thanks to those who listen to theprogram and always find my comments that like
the practice of the end or thetext that we read. Several people tell
(03:07):
me that they like very much likethe structure of the program, the reading,
the conversation and then the session todecant everything conversational. It' s
good. That encourages me to continuewith that same structure for a while.
Okay. I thank Nelson Duarte,who accompanies me at Control Master, and
(03:30):
Mario Castro, director of the station. I' m Victoria Molina, I
' m a physiotherapist, teacher ofthe master physiotherapy program at metof felden Crace
and I invite you. I inviteyou to stay with this program thinking with
the body, a program that movesyour whole being welcomed, welcome to know
(03:57):
and discover the human body in motiongenerates consciousness, autonomy and recognition of us
the word to awaken consciousness. Inthis section we carry out a reading that
allows us to introduce the topic thatwe are going to deal with the guest,
prepare for moments of reflection and tranquility. They enjoy these good times.
(04:30):
As I was commenting a moment ago, I am going to read a few
prinitas from the book The Psychology ofthe Future, lessons from modern research,
from Stanislav Grof' s consciousness andthus says technologies of the sacred and human
survival. The discovery that the rootsof violence and human greed go far beyond
(04:55):
what has been conceived by tradition psychiatryand that its presence in the human psyche
is enormous can be quite discouraging.However, this is softened, on the
other hand, thanks to the newand interesting therapeutic mechanisms and the transformative potential
(05:17):
of the holotropic states at the perinataland transpersonal level of the psyche. Over
the years I have seen numerous casesof emotional and psychosomatic healing, as well
as radical personality transformations in numerous peopleengaged in systematic systemic inner search, some
(05:40):
of whom regularly practice meditation other supervisedpsychedelic concessions or participate in various forms of
experiential therapy or self- exploration.I have also witnessed positive and profound changes
(06:00):
in many people who received the necessarysupport during spontaneous episodes of spiritual psycho crisis.
The personality of these people changed radically, as the content of the perinatal
level emerged and was integrated into consciousness. They generally felt more and more calm
(06:21):
and comfortable, with themselves and moretolerant of others, as the level of
aggressiveness decreased. The experience of deathand psychological and spiritual rebirth, as well
as the conscious connection with positive memoriesof the prenatal period, reduced in them
(06:43):
the ambitions and irrational impulses. Thisbrought about a great change in his conception
of the past, the present andthe future, and enhanced his ability to
enjoy the simplicity of life from hisdaily activities, food, sex, nature
and music. Another important outcome inthis process is the emergence of a highly
(07:10):
convincing spirituality of nature, university andmysticism. Being a profound personal experience,
the process of spiritual openness and transformationis often profound because of transpersonal experiences.
Thus, identifications can be made withother people, with a human group,
(07:32):
with plants or animals, or evenwith inorganic materials and processes. Other experiences
provide direct access to events occurring inother countries, cultures or historical periods.
The mythological and archetypal realms of thecollective unconscious can be accessed. In this
(07:54):
same sense, the experiences of cosmicunity and our own divinity lead us to
identify with all creation and bring withit astonishment, love, compassion and inner
peace. What at one point beganas a psychological check of the unconscious psyche
became automatically a philosophical search for themeaning of life and a spiritual journey.
(08:20):
People who have connected to the transpersonallevel of their psyche tend to develop a
new price for existence and a greatrespect for all life in general. One
of the most striking consequences of thesetranspersonal experiences has been the spontaneous emergence of
a major concern for humanitarian and ecologicalissues and the subsequent need to commit to
(08:45):
them. This is based on analmost cellular awareness that the boundaries of the
universe are arbitrary, as well ason the knowledge that each of us is
identical to r to n the networkof existence. All of a sudden it
has become clear that everything we doto nature we don' t do to
(09:07):
ourselves, too. More than beingthreatening. The differences between people have proved
to be interesting and enriching, regardlessof whether they were related to sex,
race, colour, language, politicalconvictions or religious beliefs. It is clear
(09:28):
that such a transformation will increase ourchances of survival if it takes place on
a scale sufficient. Grate. Well, Natalia, thank you for this wonderful
text. You knew that recovering habitsfrom healthy movements allows us to live better.
(09:50):
Life thinking with the body the humanbeing as a whole. In this
section we are bought part of theirexperience and knowledge by people who live and
assume the human being. Community withthe whole understand new practical relationships and approaches
that allow us to advance in abetter understanding of us as human beings.
(10:24):
Well, today I have the pleasureof having Natalia Zarama here on this show.
Natalia, welcome, thank you foraccepting the Victoria invitation. Thank you
so much. I' m sohappy to be here. Well, that
' s good, Natalia. Nataliais a lopathic physician specializing in alternative medicine
(10:45):
with emphasis, in traditional Chinese medicine, trained at the Grove Legacy Training School
in transpersonal psychology and holotropic breathing.Well, let' s talk about this
topic so interesting that rotropic breathing,and I saw it make a lot of
time, but I' ve neverhad like any experience with this and then
I think it' s quite interesting. But, Natalia, tell us.
(11:07):
First, how do you start,how do you start on this path of
searching, like other ways you're medical after the West. Let'
s say it like this and howyou start all this way. Well,
this path starts from school, whereyou have the opportunity to start exploring the
(11:33):
unconscious, to start relating to theexquisite, expanded or holotropic states of consciousness.
And from there arises a deep fascination, very great, a great passion
for the possibility of exploring yourself internally, very deeply and working from there.
(12:03):
Let' s say this before westudy medicine. Then I have a whole
way to study medicine. Therefore,the interest also arises to complement with a
much more complex and holistic approach thepractice, and studied Chinese medicine, but
(12:33):
always at the same time and asparallel, intruding into expanded States of consciousness,
initially as sacred plants with yay.Later, in the consultation, a
conversation arises about a very difficult emotionalprocess that one of the patients was having
(13:00):
and I ask her how that goes, how you feel about it and she
tells me I don' t seeit from another perspective anymore, I understand
how she clicks all this in mylife. What came to teach me why
I no longer see it from pain, but as more as from wisdom,
from a much deeper understanding. I' m at peace with this. And
(13:24):
this was, therefore, a veryradical change in perspective of a deeply traumatic
fact. And I tell you whyit happened there. No, I went
to res I breathed it already how, so don' t breathe what that
is. No, I didn't take holotropic breath and explained what holotropic
breathing was. I had entered expandedstates of consciousness, but I did not
(13:48):
know that through breathing one could accessa deep state of opening the unconscious and
working in such a powerful way.I told him no, because next time
we go you invite me and goand discover that technique. It was wonderful
(14:11):
to me. Not because it's like it' s through your resources,
which is the breath that opens theunconscious. You enter a state where
you work very deeply at every level, physically, energetically, emotionally, mentally,
(14:33):
and you have as a possibility tohave a much broader perspective than what
is happening, than what is happeningto you. It is like putting a
great mirror to the soul and havingfrom there, from that opportunity to look
very deeply at the, the opportunityto go and pull out, clean what
(15:00):
has been left there generating pain,generating discomfort and being able to integrate it,
not that it is how to rebornreturn to another much lighter version and
wise not healthy palisana, Yes thereis in the text speaks in several moments
(15:26):
of this perinatal transformation. There isno such possibility, I mean, this
kind of deep breathing work takes youto that moment because it mentions it as
so strongly to the text Yes Groff. Let' s just say who has
(15:48):
this one. Let' s sayhow this wonderful ability to pose all this
much more organized theory of how psycheworks in expanded states of consciousness and generates
the expanded map of consciousness in frontof what he is winding in his research.
Then he begins to work with Statesemployed by conscience and realizes that this
(16:11):
is wonderful, because what he wasable to work for decades in psychoanalysis in
a session can turn him around andin a much more genuine and forceful way.
He realizes that there are several layersin the unconscious then e and begins
as to structure. Not one isthe layer of the unconscious biographical and or
(16:36):
personal, which is what Freud wastalking about, which is like everything that
has been repressed there and what hashappened in your life. If you realize
that sooner rather than later, peoplewho have a systematic exploration of consciousness arrive
at the perinatal phase, that thisis, say, as the stage between
(16:57):
gestation, birth and immediately after birth, and that there, at this perinatal
stage, when people re- edittheir birth and re- edit all the
emotions and all this process, whichhas an emotional and physical burden, which
(17:18):
has been there repressed quite strongly andis very significant, he is very significant
the psychic and emotional change that peoplehave in working that stage of their existence.
Then the work with patients of differentkinds, psychiatric patients of different kinds,
(17:45):
and he realized that when he workedat that perinatal moment and they were
turned to working pathologies that had been, let' s say as worked only
the child, the and staff ofthe psyche had not managed to release in
an effective way. And then thereis the transpersonal unconscious who speaks to us
(18:10):
of Junggres E, who also,therefore, has as a very important place
in personal work and in the expandedStates of conscience. So, in one
in a session, in a sessionor in a job, this is done
(18:30):
as on a weekend or it isdone in the office or it is done
in spaces that have different conditions aspreparation, like how you work, as
it is a good experience, abreath to the other pole tolic em good.
The experience begins and let' ssay em reviewing a bit that the
(18:57):
person has the conditions to work itin a way in a workshop without that
is not to say the States expandedof consciousness in and are not and suitable
for the great majority of people.But e, if we are going to
work in the format of workshops,which is how it is usually worked,
(19:22):
it is important to see that thephysical and psychological conditions of the person E
are suitable for doing this let's say e in this way, then
initially we look at a medical recordto see that the conditions are appropriate later
before the workshop is made a talkthat has about a two- hour duration,
(19:48):
sometimes a little longer, to offerthe person and the possibility, on
the one hand, of seeing whowill accompany this process and to offer him
also the possibility of understanding what isgoing to happen. There is a bit
of talk about where this comes fromhow it works within the psyche for what
(20:10):
it does, and so it isoffered as a little map of the experience,
which is very different from the experienceas such. But if I already
know more or less how, whatcan happen and how we say, for
example, something that can appear withinthe experience, that can make it a
little challenging and by going through it, it really is a deep and very
(20:38):
powerful source of transformation and healing.It' s different than if you don
' t have this previous context,and then, after this talk, and
because the workshop is organized, andit has a duration of a day,
of a complete guide, not then. There is a format where there are
(21:00):
two roles for each person participating inthe workshop, one that is the role
of respirator and the other that isthe role of caregiver. Yeah, then,
and if it' s all thetime. The room is supported by
the facilitators trained in that, becauseit has all the training and experience and
all that and and that have elementsof knowledge to help work from the body
(21:29):
with the particular techniques of body work. What is emerging and also to contain
what may arise. There are otherthings like much simpler, which can be
processed through the caregiver. And thisis also supremely so, this format is
very nice, because e becomes anaccompanying ritual em for which you are taking
(21:56):
very significant care. It is likeallowing you to stand in front of another
who is opening his soul in themost vulnerable, in the deepest, in
the most sacred, and accompanying himin a respectful manner, accompanying him in
(22:19):
an open way. Not then itis. This is also very nice,
because and a little bit one islike all the dynamics that occur in that
room, not of deep respect andcompassionate supportive support and says uf fu fueala
that this could be extrapolated outside andwe were, because also in another place.
(22:44):
No, but it is also somethingand and within the experience' s
feedback you always recover this role ofthe caregiver also as something very beautiful.
No, besides, because when youbreathe and know that I breathe and you
know what it is and contact themost sacred, the most beautiful, but
(23:06):
also the most vulnerable, yours andyou can also have the opportunity to be
there with one another. This createsvery beautiful and beautiful links. Not so,
beautiful to be able to accompany you. When one accompanies one, the
respirator chooses who accompanies one. Itis someone known or part of the staff
(23:30):
of the people who hold the workshopspace e. It is the search Who
accompanies you in general is organized alreadywhen we are, let' s say
as in the place either it isso full. Ideally, there is a
(23:51):
suggestion that we always make and isif you have a very close link to
say a mother and the child orthe couple. The recommendations are not made
together, of course because if suddenlyyou are working something where you need to
cry, yes yes e, becausethe other one will suddenly be worried because
(24:12):
it happens and e and the onewho is and needs to cry suddenly a
fluen is not allowed is complete emotionalby thinking about the one who is careful.
Of course, then the recommendation isI hope, because there is not
a very close link and but becausesometimes it is also the same or are
(24:34):
those things, yes, well,tell us a little when you said good
or that grouve and understood or studyor has researched as what it does to
what makes this kind of breath thatmakes me enter these altered states of consciousness,
because well, one always talked aboutmeditation or every time you meditate,
(24:56):
because one pays attention to breathing,but simply seeing it, one is not
altering breathing. Here the forms ofbreathing are altered. They' re different
forms of breathing. If there isone, there are particular indications and clear
(25:17):
is one is a type of breathingthat does not simply take you to calm,
as in meditation, but it takesyou to open the psychic content that
has been left and repressed or accessto states for example, mystical luminous,
(25:41):
as well as union of universal consciousness. Then the breath used has three,
three particular characteristics. It is abreath that is deep, where the person
is filled and completely aired, itis fast, that is, it should
(26:04):
not be soft, but fast andshould be circular. In other words,
there should be no pause between inspirationand inspiration. This type of states and
and let' s say the formatof the workshops is done like this with
the caregiver, the respider plus thefacilitators and formed, containing the space,
(26:30):
because and precisely opens intrapsychic contents thathave remained there as pending to work,
not that it is a trauma,it is like a tranca or emotional remains
there without expressing with imporden to seethen and to have the opportunity to open
(26:52):
a little like that black box,take away the tapa, go there and
have an experiential experience, because itis not something like that I simply have
it in my head, but thatI live it from the body, from
the energy, from e and tohave the possibility of catharsis of the emotion
(27:15):
that remains there or release from thebody, not the blockade that has remained
there, from the energy and fromthe psyche. Ossea, it is a
therapy that involves as all spheres ofbeing and that is why it is so
powerfully and so therapeutically. No,I mean, it' s got a
(27:37):
pretty big power. And so e, so if it' s as it
is, in that dynamic, it' s also very important to be able
to hold the content, that is, it' s also very important,
because e is not recommended at all, for example, to make it just
clear. Of course, then alwaysbe the right context to be able to
(28:03):
facilitate these types of processes in anappropriate way. Not sure, and it
' s that every time you're exposing yourself to going inside, when
you' re in a safe place, true and a safe place means this
content, that I know who's accompanying me, that I know that
the people next door are there tohold you in anything that happens with me,
(28:27):
because obviously, that makes it easierfor you to say, right now
and there' s also a seriesof body work. Obviously, as breathing
happens in the body, but itis a breath that is allowing you to
enter your mind, to your psychethen how does that bodily work consist,
(28:48):
then e, one of the veryparticular characteristics, let' s say from
this entrance door to the unconscious,is that how you work from the breathing
moves a lot also blockages, veryfrom the body. That if then,
there, when one is in anenlarged state of consciousness, he does realize
that the body is the book inwhich life has been written and where it
(29:12):
has been written as all existence.Not then e, all of a sudden
can arise pains, tensions or blockagesthat manifest in the body and that through
work and body, free and releaseemotion free and all memories that have been
(29:33):
saved there. And for that weare the facilitators to help there as those
blockades get loose during the process.In your experience there is as a workshoper
that accompanies, as these processes,what have been said, the situations that
(29:55):
have moved you the most, let' s say, or filled you.
Let' s say. I knowthat every process is different, that for
each person is the maximum that canhappen, but to yourself as you have
to say uy, for me thatwas so the maximum is much, yes,
(30:19):
there is much, yes, thatis, for me no more to
be as in the room yes,every time you breathe and see the courage
and commitment of each person to workinternally, not to go to look at
(30:44):
oneself in the deepest and the otherthere with all the respect, with all
the disposition, accompanying for me thatno more is like an absolutely beautiful thing.
But also later, like you,have the opportunity to see processes,
not to say, people who havesuddenly begun to do as a systematic process
(31:06):
of exploration and internality and see howthat has really come, as transforming their
life, the way to see themselves, to see others, to be as
much lighter, more cheerful, moreconnected with the enjoyment of life. Seeing
(31:27):
those transformations is like wow, howcute and good. I think there is
one of the things that is alsoabsolutely beautiful and it is as it is
the connection with those mystical states,not to say that Communion really as with
(31:51):
that which is that it returns thegreat mystery that this luminous, expansive thing
where the ego dissolves and is reallyan experiential thing where you feel the full
expansion in light in which they arethings that you say, because that is
(32:17):
not ineffable. No, you can' t translate it into words. And
this thing like feeling united with thewhole and how to see not when people
come from that and as we say, it permeates not the way to see
(32:37):
the world to relate and to enjoythe ability to have and contemplate, to
enjoy the little things, to restructurefundamental values, that, that' s
wonderful, a book, because hereyou bring this that for me, in
(33:01):
any process of self- knowledge,is present and is the courage, that
is, the courage of one tosay I' m going to be,
I' m going to go intothat process. No, because it'
s a lot easier to keep sayinghere, it' s okay to make
(33:25):
things up, if you put onmasks and when you say well, I
' m going to take off mynew faces. I' m going to
go into this process, because there' s an act of great value.
No and whatever the way, whateverthe way, then it seems to me
that there is a lot of valueand what sometimes, because I say it
(33:47):
here in the program that there isone thing that always worries me a little
and is or causes me a bitof restlessness. Rather, because these processes,
understanding that they are those processes,is not that I go to a
weekend, I solve all my problemsand I leave, but that' s
(34:08):
when I have the courage to goin there, is to know what is
a process that I start and thegateway, for example, in this case
is this breath, how you seethat. In other words, people come
in and stay or there' severything, obviously, people who say I
(34:29):
don' t want to go backto what came. I liked it and
I want to close it again,seal it and jump it or not.
It' s or it' snot that common, at least with this
kind of work. There is,as we say, a little bit of
the two lines. I don't mean, there are people who have
(34:51):
an experience of expanded state, ofconsciousness and that experience can significantly change their
lives and solve you more or thingsthat they had there and like earrings and
that and that say wow. Thisis really good, and I want to
(35:12):
say how to keep working and keepgoing in the process and keep looking and
looking deeper and deeper. That,then, has been my way not since
adolescence. It is, therefore,more valuable than being able to work within
you, not that of revolution.I think that especially for inside what we
(35:32):
need and changes as qualitative and realwhere we have, like the ability to
generate sustained work. But there arealso people who say well, I go,
I do an experience and and thenI need a little more time to
(35:53):
stop singing, to look. Afterall, I' m on time again.
Or it was this experience, itwas super cool but already yes,
but yes, I mean, Ido, I think it is very valuable
and very and very good for oneand for humanity in general, not to
(36:17):
abandon the inner work, not tobe a commitment to be looking at being
qualified, like being humal. Ofcourse, because, besides, I think
that to the extent that each ofus works inwards, what projects outwards is
that or a human being, compassionateloving. True, because since in this
(36:40):
compassion one has with oneself, Ican be compassionate to others, I cannot
be supportive to others, I canbe loving to others. No. Then,
of course, today you see alot of inte work inner work,
(37:00):
some with much more publicity than others, with some with gurus others with not
so much. But somehow it's just that, that' s because
there' s been an explosion,because it' s like wow now everywhere,
there' s not everything. So, then, because somehow we'
(37:23):
re like lost, but as ahuman being, but to the extent that
I' m lost as a humanbeing, like me, Victoria Molina,
because I put my bit of sandso that the rest is also lost.
Not in that sense. So,if I work, if I' m,
then I can be gentler and kinder, and that I can say,
(37:44):
at least expand on the place,on the places where I am, in
the places nearby with the people Irelate to. Yeah, so that'
s not like a very big search, like an inner void, like human
beings. No, I don't. To me, what I find
(38:04):
also very very powerful and cute ofthis technique is that guru is oneself,
not that it is yes, itis really like the possibility of contacting the
inner healer that we all have inside, that is much wiser and that really
(38:30):
knows, particularly for the process ofeach person that is relevant, for what
is ready, what is ready towork, what is needed. This yes,
this body, this energy. Noone is telling you look, this
(38:51):
happened to you or the trauma hereis this and then you have to do
this, but it is you allowingyourself to anger within your soul, yes
and go and look at you notin a way like very open, very
honest and from there and contact thedirect source of wisdom within you. So
(39:15):
that, that' s very nice, because there' s no mediator,
no, but, because you're yourself with your breathing. Of course,
you always become like a guide whoshows paths no, but you said
that no. Not that your handsare wonderful. It is that we are
(39:36):
showing paths um and showing such agood and perhaps a loving invitation. No,
and maybe if you take it overhere, and maybe if you take
it over here and maybe if you' re over here, then of course,
it' s not the stuff ofone of the experts who tells the
other they need, because I knowhow you hurt here, it' s
(39:57):
because your mom didn' t makeyou, because your dad' s going.
It' s all the things thatare sometimes treated as so lightly now.
No, then how to achieve thatso that we can rescue the healer
within us and also take responsibility forour life, because then, of course,
I am always blaming the good life. And it' s just that
(40:21):
my dad was like that, mymom was like that and your brother and
a brother and some brothers and anExpi to see. Yeah, that'
s true. No, it's not that I' m going to
say in a simple way, it' s that no, but how I
start to be responsible, that Ican, that I can also with help
(40:47):
looking for groups people spaces of containmentthat can help me realize. It'
s going out there, well,very nice. In these less mentioned,
now mystical states, there is someparticular condition for that to happen to anyone.
(41:13):
Yeah, this, this is verychere. Let' s say that
is spoken during the preparatory talk,because sometimes people think that mystical states are
reserved for saint I don' tknow what or I don' t know
who. Or that it was orthat it is exclusive to X and or
(41:34):
dolewperson Y it turns out that duringthe experiences of only tropic states of consciousness.
Anyone can access this feeling and thismystical experience. It is not of
the things that very often happen,that is, when one does a workshop,
(41:54):
very probably within the experiences that occurwithin that workshop, several of the
participants have managed to access a mysticalstate of consciousness. The point is that
you don' t know a littlewhat it' s going to offer you
psyche in every experience. One hasto be, let' s say,
(42:15):
in the spirit of a beginner's adventurer, open to what comes to
you, to what the psyche iswilling to give you to nourish and heal
you. Because it is like theability to surprise us exactly the ability to
(42:39):
surprise us that is always so presentin all this and the beginner mind,
which is the one that allows youto be as willing to what comes to
what happens. So, well,our program is called a journey, be
(43:00):
it inside through breathing. It's really that, it' s an
invitation to go and see that what' s inside of us is so much
that we give it a last name. Well, signs do, then,
(43:21):
and you mention that, too.Not that there' s no diagnosis.
No, it' s not thatyou put on a label of yourself you
have such a thing, but youjust accompany. No yes, yes,
of course, the task of thefacilitator is a little like sustaining the journey
(43:51):
that each one is taking, ofcourse, each person and flourishing in his
psyche with a different thing with anothere. And well, I mean,
let' s also say from Westernmedicine, because suddenly there will be diagnoses.
(44:19):
A diagnosis finally, it' slike a constellation of symptoms. There
' s not this symptom, thisone and this one. And what I
saw, for example, grof isthat those symptoms are held on a,
on a pillar, over as anintrapsychic energy column of that same characteristic.
(44:44):
So, for example, if thesymptom is sadness, then probably and I,
in everyday life, all of asudden I feel sad and I don
' t know why if and Istart looking at not that symptom a little
bit more, open a bit likethis folder, because they are saved,
(45:06):
say, as the symptoms by foldersof physical or emotional sensations, and I
start to see that there, insidethat folder there is and content. Suddenly
in the stage, in the stageof then in the biographical unconscious, of
a sadness that lacked me to cryfor the death this for this another begin
(45:29):
further down as from the personal,to find that in the childhood such thing
I am going to transport it,to the operi natal, where there are
these moments as of sensation, asof of sadness, of disconnection. And
within the transpersonal, then also alittle bit like being able to enter that
(45:53):
folder of contents and start cleaning,cleaning, cleaning, pulling out that face.
That' s a seat. Duringbreathing, Yes, during breathing,
you can contact one of these foldersthat are system are called condensed experience systems
or coix then you start as youpull the contents out of that folder,
(46:15):
to clean not what was left pendingand cry, if it is sadness to
cry it. Yeah, then youstart generating a drop in all that intrapsychic
energy that held the symptom. Yeah,' cause you start working, but
from the base. I mean.That is why these types of therapies generate
(46:38):
a possibility of causal healing. Imean, it' s not like psychopharmaceuticals
that inhibit your symptom, but theylet you get to the root and clean
everything up. And then, whenI no longer have the intrapsychic energy that
sustains that symptom, because already thesymptom begins to disappear and as we said
(47:00):
that a pathology is like a constellationof symptoms, then if suddenly I start
to work and that symptom no longerexists and this one does not exist,
and this other neither, then pathologiesbegin to cease to exist. That'
s why Groff saw when I beganto work the expanded states of consciousness as
(47:22):
powerful and powerful potential to work thepsyche from the bottom not that it actually
allows people to cover themselves in avery deep way. And that' s
how it works. And there's something else to say. There'
s like two, two, two, two ways as important work. One
(47:46):
is like a state of cleaning upthe emotions and things that have remained there,
which are like what would be called, because a commission trauma, something
that you have felt unpleasant or violentthat has left there an intrapsychic content,
repressed that not of which you arenot aware. And there are other types
(48:07):
of traumas, which is the traumaof omission, which is, when you
have needed affection, affection or containmentand you have not received it, then
that type of trauma, during thistype of therapies can also be sealed healed
because you may at that time reissuethat moment in which you needed that affection,
(48:35):
because we are mammals. To beholy, we need affection, containment,
to feel adequate and there the therapistcan help with the stimulus that was
needed at that time, to givea hand, to give a hug,
to get to leave also sealing thatmark of pain. So it' s
(49:00):
nice how to weave a deep healingnot like from the inside of every wonderful
person. Well, we' llhave to have the experience welcome to those
who marvel Well, let' sdo a little practice to close the program.
(49:25):
You' re listening, thinking withthe body, taking care. The
body is the space created to giveyou some ways to be better in your
body through movement. Conscious note howsmall changes in attention provide transformations in your
(49:51):
movement, in daily life and yoursense of well- being. When we
were preparing the program with Natalia andI said good and in the end,
then what do you do to usa little breathing demonstration. I tropic it.
(50:12):
That' s where he tells meno. That couldn' t be
done. What do you think?So, well, I understand that what
is all a good preparation and forgivethe question as so bold of me.
So, then, we' regoing to do an exercise in connection with
breathing, just as simple, aswe do in this program. Then I
(50:36):
' m going to invite you toclose your eyes, where you are,
connect with the soles of your feetand stay as with what is the feeling
that surrounds today your body notes likethis, there is some tension somewhere.
(50:57):
The shoulders, the jaw, theneck, the legs, the arms.
That' s like a scan.It is called this is a look for
your whole being, but more thanlooking and judging is observing, observing and
(51:22):
observing that which attracts your attention,which attracts attention. Then it may attract
attention some support that you do therein your nagas in the seat or maybe
your feet on the floor or maybethe forms as your arms rest and allow
you to observe what appears no matterwhat it is then with gentleness, with
(51:51):
kindness and also inviting the mind,the beginner. The beginner mind is the
mind that, as if it werethe first time you did this and every
time you do it, do itas if it were the first time.
That allows you to be surprised bywhat you find every day, each experience
(52:15):
is different. Then feel there howyou perceive yourself, how you perceive the
climate, the environment, the temperatureof the environment, if it is cold,
if it is warm, if itis warm, if it is pleasant,
(52:39):
if it is not so pleasant,it draws attention to your breathing,
but without changing it and notice.So you can feel er is the first
(53:01):
moment the air enters and the momentthe air starts to come out, and
you notice if there' s anypause between the entrance and the exit and
(53:32):
it allows the air to enter,enter, enter, and enter, and
after the air comes out, itcomes out and it comes out and feels
(53:57):
there how you perceive yourself and notesand as you breathe in this mode it
is that it listens. In thatway of listening, you can realize if
some thought appears, some emotion appears, it seems consent and observes good loma,
(54:22):
you are around here sadness or joyrage. Let yourself see it,
see it, whatever' s infront of you and good that happens,
(54:49):
when you just have it in frontof you what' s going on and
if there' s nothing special likeyou' re still there connected to your
breathing. Well, it' sokay to also keep in touch with your
(55:31):
breathing. If some thought appears,if it wants to take you away,
do not talk to the thought thathas to come and he will leave if
you continue with attention and breathing.And turning me there like the support of
(56:14):
the plants, of the feet,of your ispions, there is in your
buttocks and moving me like a littlebit such happy onto opening your eyes and
I' m going to invite youto wake up and to despair invites you
(56:43):
ay then allow yourself the yawn alsoay I love yawning them. Ay comes
and is that moreover we have restrictedthe roughness and the yawning room we punish
socially, Ahorita, not here Ihave but Natalia enel are that see me
yawn then that you who hear mevery well and stay there as ok has
(57:06):
appeared and with the feeling that youhave thinking with the body is led by
Victoria Molina. Well, we've come to the end of the Natalia
(57:32):
program. Thank you very much,but I want you to tell us where
to write before we say goodbye,contact us when they are your workshops.
I think that' s very important. Thank you, well, a real
taste. Thank you very much,I, I adore, this technique for
(57:53):
me has been absolutely beautiful, powerfuland it is a taste as a power
to share it. Not me,well, I don' t have instagram
or Facebook. E Na is likeNatalia, Sarama Sarama, scon zet and
(58:15):
the phone with Whatsapp, because I, Luas speak it enough because when I
am in consultation. They don't answer calls, but then I update
the whatsapp. It' s three, fourteen, three, nine, five,
seven, seven, three, seven, the next trophic breathing workshop we
(58:37):
have scheduled for the twenty- fifthof this month. So those who want
the quotas are limited. So,then, to measure, because they are
filling up and you already do ithere in Bogotá. The workshops are made
in close to Bogotá, on afarm in zipacón, a very beautiful space
(58:59):
with the perfect conditions to carry outthis type of workshops. All right,
well, good luck, Natalia hasso many thanks. He really learns a
lot every time I have someone onthe show and then, well, thank
you so much. Well, rememberthat you can follow us through this Instagram,
(59:19):
Twitter, YouTube, as Rosario Radioand good thanks to Nelson Duarte,
who accompanies the Master Control, MarioCasto, director of the Broadcaster. Remember
that Victoria Molina spoke to you andI invite you. I invite you to
continue with the station' s programming. Thank you. He ends a space
(59:55):
where he knew about body- mindrelationships and understood the potential s, wisdom
and intelligence of the human body.One hour with the radio show of the
physiotherapy program of the University of Rosario, thinking with the body, come and
discover everything that can be done,learn and feel from the consciousness of living
(01:00:15):
in motion. See you soon,this was thinking with the body.
It begins a space to know aboutthe relationships of body or mind and to
understand the potential, wisdom and intelligenceof the human body. Connect an hour
with the radio show of the physiotherapyprogram of the University of Rosario, thinking
with the body see and discover everythingthat can be done, learn and feel
(00:22):
from the consciousness of living in welcomemovement, that is, thinking with the
body, the body coming welcome tothe program thinking with the space body,
(00:46):
the physiotherapy program of the University ofRosario, from the microphones of the institutional
station, here in the Cloister,sent a warm greeting to all and all
our ber listeners today a cold dayin Bogotá. For me it is always
a matter of gratitude to be ableto carry out a new program and to
(01:10):
have the presence of each person who, from his or her space and practices
in daily life or from his orher professions, from his or her studies,
from his or her concerns, contributesso that we are better human beings
and have a more just and peacefulsociety. In the section the word to
awaken consciousness, I will make areading, obviously suggested by my guest,
(01:36):
of the text or book The Psychologyof the Future by Stanislav Groft. We
will use a reading of a smallfragment and this reading allows us to reflect
and serves as a preamble for thetopic that we will discuss today with our
guest, Natalia Sarama, with whomwe will talk about a journey inward through
(02:00):
breathing and then we will conduct asmall session in our section, taking care
of the body and movement, asmall breathing session. Well, remember that
you' re listening to us onour triple leu dot web page a radio
rosary, dot se o, justlike on broaocasting platforms, like Radio pul
(02:21):
Too Arty. Likewise, if youwant to connect with us on social networks,
you find us as a radio rosaryon Instagram, Facebook and YouTube.
In addition, on the website tripledobleu dot rosuario radio, dot seo find
the programming of the station. Ifyou are late for this broadcast or if
(02:42):
you miss any of our programs,remember that everyone is staying as a radio
rosary on the Spreaker, Spotify andApple Podcast platforms. Well, always my
thanks to those who listen to theprogram and always find my comments that like
the practice of the end or thetext that we read. Several people tell
(03:07):
me that they like very much likethe structure of the program, the reading,
the conversation and then the session todecant everything conversational. It' s
good. That encourages me to continuewith that same structure for a while.
Okay. I thank Nelson Duarte,who accompanies me at Control Master, and
(03:30):
Mario Castro, director of the station. I' m Victoria Molina, I
' m a physiotherapist, teacher ofthe master physiotherapy program at metof felden Crace
and I invite you. I inviteyou to stay with this program thinking with
the body, a program that movesyour whole being welcomed, welcome to know
(03:57):
and discover the human body in motiongenerates consciousness, autonomy and recognition of us
the word to awaken consciousness. Inthis section we carry out a reading that
allows us to introduce the topic thatwe are going to deal with the guest,
prepare for moments of reflection and tranquility. They enjoy these good times.
(04:30):
As I was commenting a moment ago, I am going to read a few
prinitas from the book The Psychology ofthe Future, lessons from modern research,
from Stanislav Grof' s consciousness andthus says technologies of the sacred and human
survival. The discovery that the rootsof violence and human greed go far beyond
(04:55):
what has been conceived by tradition psychiatryand that its presence in the human psyche
is enormous can be quite discouraging.However, this is softened, on the
other hand, thanks to the newand interesting therapeutic mechanisms and the transformative potential
(05:17):
of the holotropic states at the perinataland transpersonal level of the psyche. Over
the years I have seen numerous casesof emotional and psychosomatic healing, as well
as radical personality transformations in numerous peopleengaged in systematic systemic inner search, some
(05:40):
of whom regularly practice meditation other supervisedpsychedelic concessions or participate in various forms of
experiential therapy or self- exploration.I have also witnessed positive and profound changes
(06:00):
in many people who received the necessarysupport during spontaneous episodes of spiritual psycho crisis.
The personality of these people changed radically, as the content of the perinatal
level emerged and was integrated into consciousness. They generally felt more and more calm
(06:21):
and comfortable, with themselves and moretolerant of others, as the level of
aggressiveness decreased. The experience of deathand psychological and spiritual rebirth, as well
as the conscious connection with positive memoriesof the prenatal period, reduced in them
(06:43):
the ambitions and irrational impulses. Thisbrought about a great change in his conception
of the past, the present andthe future, and enhanced his ability to
enjoy the simplicity of life from hisdaily activities, food, sex, nature
and music. Another important outcome inthis process is the emergence of a highly
(07:10):
convincing spirituality of nature, university andmysticism. Being a profound personal experience,
the process of spiritual openness and transformationis often profound because of transpersonal experiences.
Thus, identifications can be made withother people, with a human group,
(07:32):
with plants or animals, or evenwith inorganic materials and processes. Other experiences
provide direct access to events occurring inother countries, cultures or historical periods.
The mythological and archetypal realms of thecollective unconscious can be accessed. In this
(07:54):
same sense, the experiences of cosmicunity and our own divinity lead us to
identify with all creation and bring withit astonishment, love, compassion and inner
peace. What at one point beganas a psychological check of the unconscious psyche
became automatically a philosophical search for themeaning of life and a spiritual journey.
(08:20):
People who have connected to the transpersonallevel of their psyche tend to develop a
new price for existence and a greatrespect for all life in general. One
of the most striking consequences of thesetranspersonal experiences has been the spontaneous emergence of
a major concern for humanitarian and ecologicalissues and the subsequent need to commit to
(08:45):
them. This is based on analmost cellular awareness that the boundaries of the
universe are arbitrary, as well ason the knowledge that each of us is
identical to r to n the networkof existence. All of a sudden it
has become clear that everything we doto nature we don' t do to
(09:07):
ourselves, too. More than beingthreatening. The differences between people have proved
to be interesting and enriching, regardlessof whether they were related to sex,
race, colour, language, politicalconvictions or religious beliefs. It is clear
(09:28):
that such a transformation will increase ourchances of survival if it takes place on
a scale sufficient. Grate. Well, Natalia, thank you for this wonderful
text. You knew that recovering habitsfrom healthy movements allows us to live better.
(09:50):
Life thinking with the body the humanbeing as a whole. In this
section we are bought part of theirexperience and knowledge by people who live and
assume the human being. Community withthe whole understand new practical relationships and approaches
that allow us to advance in abetter understanding of us as human beings.
(10:24):
Well, today I have the pleasureof having Natalia Zarama here on this show.
Natalia, welcome, thank you foraccepting the Victoria invitation. Thank you
so much. I' m sohappy to be here. Well, that
' s good, Natalia. Nataliais a lopathic physician specializing in alternative medicine
(10:45):
with emphasis, in traditional Chinese medicine, trained at the Grove Legacy Training School
in transpersonal psychology and holotropic breathing.Well, let' s talk about this
topic so interesting that rotropic breathing,and I saw it make a lot of
time, but I' ve neverhad like any experience with this and then
I think it' s quite interesting. But, Natalia, tell us.
(11:07):
First, how do you start,how do you start on this path of
searching, like other ways you're medical after the West. Let'
s say it like this and howyou start all this way. Well,
this path starts from school, whereyou have the opportunity to start exploring the
(11:33):
unconscious, to start relating to theexquisite, expanded or holotropic states of consciousness.
And from there arises a deep fascination, very great, a great passion
for the possibility of exploring yourself internally, very deeply and working from there.
(12:03):
Let' s say this before westudy medicine. Then I have a whole
way to study medicine. Therefore,the interest also arises to complement with a
much more complex and holistic approach thepractice, and studied Chinese medicine, but
(12:33):
always at the same time and asparallel, intruding into expanded States of consciousness,
initially as sacred plants with yay.Later, in the consultation, a
conversation arises about a very difficult emotionalprocess that one of the patients was having
(13:00):
and I ask her how that goes, how you feel about it and she
tells me I don' t seeit from another perspective anymore, I understand
how she clicks all this in mylife. What came to teach me why
I no longer see it from pain, but as more as from wisdom,
from a much deeper understanding. I' m at peace with this. And
(13:24):
this was, therefore, a veryradical change in perspective of a deeply traumatic
fact. And I tell you whyit happened there. No, I went
to res I breathed it already how, so don' t breathe what that
is. No, I didn't take holotropic breath and explained what holotropic
breathing was. I had entered expandedstates of consciousness, but I did not
(13:48):
know that through breathing one could accessa deep state of opening the unconscious and
working in such a powerful way.I told him no, because next time
we go you invite me and goand discover that technique. It was wonderful
(14:11):
to me. Not because it's like it' s through your resources,
which is the breath that opens theunconscious. You enter a state where
you work very deeply at every level, physically, energetically, emotionally, mentally,
(14:33):
and you have as a possibility tohave a much broader perspective than what
is happening, than what is happeningto you. It is like putting a
great mirror to the soul and havingfrom there, from that opportunity to look
very deeply at the, the opportunityto go and pull out, clean what
(15:00):
has been left there generating pain,generating discomfort and being able to integrate it,
not that it is how to rebornreturn to another much lighter version and
wise not healthy palisana, Yes thereis in the text speaks in several moments
(15:26):
of this perinatal transformation. There isno such possibility, I mean, this
kind of deep breathing work takes youto that moment because it mentions it as
so strongly to the text Yes Groff. Let' s just say who has
(15:48):
this one. Let' s sayhow this wonderful ability to pose all this
much more organized theory of how psycheworks in expanded states of consciousness and generates
the expanded map of consciousness in frontof what he is winding in his research.
Then he begins to work with Statesemployed by conscience and realizes that this
(16:11):
is wonderful, because what he wasable to work for decades in psychoanalysis in
a session can turn him around andin a much more genuine and forceful way.
He realizes that there are several layersin the unconscious then e and begins
as to structure. Not one isthe layer of the unconscious biographical and or
(16:36):
personal, which is what Freud wastalking about, which is like everything that
has been repressed there and what hashappened in your life. If you realize
that sooner rather than later, peoplewho have a systematic exploration of consciousness arrive
at the perinatal phase, that thisis, say, as the stage between
(16:57):
gestation, birth and immediately after birth, and that there, at this perinatal
stage, when people re- edittheir birth and re- edit all the
emotions and all this process, whichhas an emotional and physical burden, which
(17:18):
has been there repressed quite strongly andis very significant, he is very significant
the psychic and emotional change that peoplehave in working that stage of their existence.
Then the work with patients of differentkinds, psychiatric patients of different kinds,
(17:45):
and he realized that when he workedat that perinatal moment and they were
turned to working pathologies that had been, let' s say as worked only
the child, the and staff ofthe psyche had not managed to release in
an effective way. And then thereis the transpersonal unconscious who speaks to us
(18:10):
of Junggres E, who also,therefore, has as a very important place
in personal work and in the expandedStates of conscience. So, in one
in a session, in a sessionor in a job, this is done
(18:30):
as on a weekend or it isdone in the office or it is done
in spaces that have different conditions aspreparation, like how you work, as
it is a good experience, abreath to the other pole tolic em good.
The experience begins and let' ssay em reviewing a bit that the
(18:57):
person has the conditions to work itin a way in a workshop without that
is not to say the States expandedof consciousness in and are not and suitable
for the great majority of people.But e, if we are going to
work in the format of workshops,which is how it is usually worked,
(19:22):
it is important to see that thephysical and psychological conditions of the person E
are suitable for doing this let's say e in this way, then
initially we look at a medical recordto see that the conditions are appropriate later
before the workshop is made a talkthat has about a two- hour duration,
(19:48):
sometimes a little longer, to offerthe person and the possibility, on
the one hand, of seeing whowill accompany this process and to offer him
also the possibility of understanding what isgoing to happen. There is a bit
of talk about where this comes fromhow it works within the psyche for what
(20:10):
it does, and so it isoffered as a little map of the experience,
which is very different from the experienceas such. But if I already
know more or less how, whatcan happen and how we say, for
example, something that can appear withinthe experience, that can make it a
little challenging and by going through it, it really is a deep and very
(20:38):
powerful source of transformation and healing.It' s different than if you don
' t have this previous context,and then, after this talk, and
because the workshop is organized, andit has a duration of a day,
of a complete guide, not then. There is a format where there are
(21:00):
two roles for each person participating inthe workshop, one that is the role
of respirator and the other that isthe role of caregiver. Yeah, then,
and if it' s all thetime. The room is supported by
the facilitators trained in that, becauseit has all the training and experience and
all that and and that have elementsof knowledge to help work from the body
(21:29):
with the particular techniques of body work. What is emerging and also to contain
what may arise. There are otherthings like much simpler, which can be
processed through the caregiver. And thisis also supremely so, this format is
very nice, because e becomes anaccompanying ritual em for which you are taking
(21:56):
very significant care. It is likeallowing you to stand in front of another
who is opening his soul in themost vulnerable, in the deepest, in
the most sacred, and accompanying himin a respectful manner, accompanying him in
(22:19):
an open way. Not then itis. This is also very nice,
because and a little bit one islike all the dynamics that occur in that
room, not of deep respect andcompassionate supportive support and says uf fu fueala
that this could be extrapolated outside andwe were, because also in another place.
(22:44):
No, but it is also somethingand and within the experience' s
feedback you always recover this role ofthe caregiver also as something very beautiful.
No, besides, because when youbreathe and know that I breathe and you
know what it is and contact themost sacred, the most beautiful, but
(23:06):
also the most vulnerable, yours andyou can also have the opportunity to be
there with one another. This createsvery beautiful and beautiful links. Not so,
beautiful to be able to accompany you. When one accompanies one, the
respirator chooses who accompanies one. Itis someone known or part of the staff
(23:30):
of the people who hold the workshopspace e. It is the search Who
accompanies you in general is organized alreadywhen we are, let' s say
as in the place either it isso full. Ideally, there is a
(23:51):
suggestion that we always make and isif you have a very close link to
say a mother and the child orthe couple. The recommendations are not made
together, of course because if suddenlyyou are working something where you need to
cry, yes yes e, becausethe other one will suddenly be worried because
(24:12):
it happens and e and the onewho is and needs to cry suddenly a
fluen is not allowed is complete emotionalby thinking about the one who is careful.
Of course, then the recommendation isI hope, because there is not
a very close link and but becausesometimes it is also the same or are
(24:34):
those things, yes, well,tell us a little when you said good
or that grouve and understood or studyor has researched as what it does to
what makes this kind of breath thatmakes me enter these altered states of consciousness,
because well, one always talked aboutmeditation or every time you meditate,
(24:56):
because one pays attention to breathing,but simply seeing it, one is not
altering breathing. Here the forms ofbreathing are altered. They' re different
forms of breathing. If there isone, there are particular indications and clear
(25:17):
is one is a type of breathingthat does not simply take you to calm,
as in meditation, but it takesyou to open the psychic content that
has been left and repressed or accessto states for example, mystical luminous,
(25:41):
as well as union of universal consciousness. Then the breath used has three,
three particular characteristics. It is abreath that is deep, where the person
is filled and completely aired, itis fast, that is, it should
(26:04):
not be soft, but fast andshould be circular. In other words,
there should be no pause between inspirationand inspiration. This type of states and
and let' s say the formatof the workshops is done like this with
the caregiver, the respider plus thefacilitators and formed, containing the space,
(26:30):
because and precisely opens intrapsychic contents thathave remained there as pending to work,
not that it is a trauma,it is like a tranca or emotional remains
there without expressing with imporden to seethen and to have the opportunity to open
(26:52):
a little like that black box,take away the tapa, go there and
have an experiential experience, because itis not something like that I simply have
it in my head, but thatI live it from the body, from
the energy, from e and tohave the possibility of catharsis of the emotion
(27:15):
that remains there or release from thebody, not the blockade that has remained
there, from the energy and fromthe psyche. Ossea, it is a
therapy that involves as all spheres ofbeing and that is why it is so
powerfully and so therapeutically. No,I mean, it' s got a
(27:37):
pretty big power. And so e, so if it' s as it
is, in that dynamic, it' s also very important to be able
to hold the content, that is, it' s also very important,
because e is not recommended at all, for example, to make it just
clear. Of course, then alwaysbe the right context to be able to
(28:03):
facilitate these types of processes in anappropriate way. Not sure, and it
' s that every time you're exposing yourself to going inside, when
you' re in a safe place, true and a safe place means this
content, that I know who's accompanying me, that I know that
the people next door are there tohold you in anything that happens with me,
(28:27):
because obviously, that makes it easierfor you to say, right now
and there' s also a seriesof body work. Obviously, as breathing
happens in the body, but itis a breath that is allowing you to
enter your mind, to your psychethen how does that bodily work consist,
(28:48):
then e, one of the veryparticular characteristics, let' s say from
this entrance door to the unconscious,is that how you work from the breathing
moves a lot also blockages, veryfrom the body. That if then,
there, when one is in anenlarged state of consciousness, he does realize
that the body is the book inwhich life has been written and where it
(29:12):
has been written as all existence.Not then e, all of a sudden
can arise pains, tensions or blockagesthat manifest in the body and that through
work and body, free and releaseemotion free and all memories that have been
(29:33):
saved there. And for that weare the facilitators to help there as those
blockades get loose during the process.In your experience there is as a workshoper
that accompanies, as these processes,what have been said, the situations that
(29:55):
have moved you the most, let' s say, or filled you.
Let' s say. I knowthat every process is different, that for
each person is the maximum that canhappen, but to yourself as you have
to say uy, for me thatwas so the maximum is much, yes,
(30:19):
there is much, yes, thatis, for me no more to
be as in the room yes,every time you breathe and see the courage
and commitment of each person to workinternally, not to go to look at
(30:44):
oneself in the deepest and the otherthere with all the respect, with all
the disposition, accompanying for me thatno more is like an absolutely beautiful thing.
But also later, like you,have the opportunity to see processes,
not to say, people who havesuddenly begun to do as a systematic process
(31:06):
of exploration and internality and see howthat has really come, as transforming their
life, the way to see themselves, to see others, to be as
much lighter, more cheerful, moreconnected with the enjoyment of life. Seeing
(31:27):
those transformations is like wow, howcute and good. I think there is
one of the things that is alsoabsolutely beautiful and it is as it is
the connection with those mystical states,not to say that Communion really as with
(31:51):
that which is that it returns thegreat mystery that this luminous, expansive thing
where the ego dissolves and is reallyan experiential thing where you feel the full
expansion in light in which they arethings that you say, because that is
(32:17):
not ineffable. No, you can' t translate it into words. And
this thing like feeling united with thewhole and how to see not when people
come from that and as we say, it permeates not the way to see
(32:37):
the world to relate and to enjoythe ability to have and contemplate, to
enjoy the little things, to restructurefundamental values, that, that' s
wonderful, a book, because hereyou bring this that for me, in
(33:01):
any process of self- knowledge,is present and is the courage, that
is, the courage of one tosay I' m going to be,
I' m going to go intothat process. No, because it'
s a lot easier to keep sayinghere, it' s okay to make
(33:25):
things up, if you put onmasks and when you say well, I
' m going to take off mynew faces. I' m going to
go into this process, because there' s an act of great value.
No and whatever the way, whateverthe way, then it seems to me
that there is a lot of valueand what sometimes, because I say it
(33:47):
here in the program that there isone thing that always worries me a little
and is or causes me a bitof restlessness. Rather, because these processes,
understanding that they are those processes,is not that I go to a
weekend, I solve all my problemsand I leave, but that' s
(34:08):
when I have the courage to goin there, is to know what is
a process that I start and thegateway, for example, in this case
is this breath, how you seethat. In other words, people come
in and stay or there' severything, obviously, people who say I
(34:29):
don' t want to go backto what came. I liked it and
I want to close it again,seal it and jump it or not.
It' s or it' snot that common, at least with this
kind of work. There is,as we say, a little bit of
the two lines. I don't mean, there are people who have
(34:51):
an experience of expanded state, ofconsciousness and that experience can significantly change their
lives and solve you more or thingsthat they had there and like earrings and
that and that say wow. Thisis really good, and I want to
(35:12):
say how to keep working and keepgoing in the process and keep looking and
looking deeper and deeper. That,then, has been my way not since
adolescence. It is, therefore,more valuable than being able to work within
you, not that of revolution.I think that especially for inside what we
(35:32):
need and changes as qualitative and realwhere we have, like the ability to
generate sustained work. But there arealso people who say well, I go,
I do an experience and and thenI need a little more time to
(35:53):
stop singing, to look. Afterall, I' m on time again.
Or it was this experience, itwas super cool but already yes,
but yes, I mean, Ido, I think it is very valuable
and very and very good for oneand for humanity in general, not to
(36:17):
abandon the inner work, not tobe a commitment to be looking at being
qualified, like being humal. Ofcourse, because, besides, I think
that to the extent that each ofus works inwards, what projects outwards is
that or a human being, compassionateloving. True, because since in this
(36:40):
compassion one has with oneself, Ican be compassionate to others, I cannot
be supportive to others, I canbe loving to others. No. Then,
of course, today you see alot of inte work inner work,
(37:00):
some with much more publicity than others, with some with gurus others with not
so much. But somehow it's just that, that' s because
there' s been an explosion,because it' s like wow now everywhere,
there' s not everything. So, then, because somehow we'
(37:23):
re like lost, but as ahuman being, but to the extent that
I' m lost as a humanbeing, like me, Victoria Molina,
because I put my bit of sandso that the rest is also lost.
Not in that sense. So,if I work, if I' m,
then I can be gentler and kinder, and that I can say,
(37:44):
at least expand on the place,on the places where I am, in
the places nearby with the people Irelate to. Yeah, so that'
s not like a very big search, like an inner void, like human
beings. No, I don't. To me, what I find
(38:04):
also very very powerful and cute ofthis technique is that guru is oneself,
not that it is yes, itis really like the possibility of contacting the
inner healer that we all have inside, that is much wiser and that really
(38:30):
knows, particularly for the process ofeach person that is relevant, for what
is ready, what is ready towork, what is needed. This yes,
this body, this energy. Noone is telling you look, this
(38:51):
happened to you or the trauma hereis this and then you have to do
this, but it is you allowingyourself to anger within your soul, yes
and go and look at you notin a way like very open, very
honest and from there and contact thedirect source of wisdom within you. So
(39:15):
that, that' s very nice, because there' s no mediator,
no, but, because you're yourself with your breathing. Of course,
you always become like a guide whoshows paths no, but you said
that no. Not that your handsare wonderful. It is that we are
(39:36):
showing paths um and showing such agood and perhaps a loving invitation. No,
and maybe if you take it overhere, and maybe if you take
it over here and maybe if you' re over here, then of course,
it' s not the stuff ofone of the experts who tells the
other they need, because I knowhow you hurt here, it' s
(39:57):
because your mom didn' t makeyou, because your dad' s going.
It' s all the things thatare sometimes treated as so lightly now.
No, then how to achieve thatso that we can rescue the healer
within us and also take responsibility forour life, because then, of course,
I am always blaming the good life. And it' s just that
(40:21):
my dad was like that, mymom was like that and your brother and
a brother and some brothers and anExpi to see. Yeah, that'
s true. No, it's not that I' m going to
say in a simple way, it' s that no, but how I
start to be responsible, that Ican, that I can also with help
(40:47):
looking for groups people spaces of containmentthat can help me realize. It'
s going out there, well,very nice. In these less mentioned,
now mystical states, there is someparticular condition for that to happen to anyone.
(41:13):
Yeah, this, this is verychere. Let' s say that
is spoken during the preparatory talk,because sometimes people think that mystical states are
reserved for saint I don' tknow what or I don' t know
who. Or that it was orthat it is exclusive to X and or
(41:34):
dolewperson Y it turns out that duringthe experiences of only tropic states of consciousness.
Anyone can access this feeling and thismystical experience. It is not of
the things that very often happen,that is, when one does a workshop,
(41:54):
very probably within the experiences that occurwithin that workshop, several of the
participants have managed to access a mysticalstate of consciousness. The point is that
you don' t know a littlewhat it' s going to offer you
psyche in every experience. One hasto be, let' s say,
(42:15):
in the spirit of a beginner's adventurer, open to what comes to
you, to what the psyche iswilling to give you to nourish and heal
you. Because it is like theability to surprise us exactly the ability to
(42:39):
surprise us that is always so presentin all this and the beginner mind,
which is the one that allows youto be as willing to what comes to
what happens. So, well,our program is called a journey, be
(43:00):
it inside through breathing. It's really that, it' s an
invitation to go and see that what' s inside of us is so much
that we give it a last name. Well, signs do, then,
(43:21):
and you mention that, too.Not that there' s no diagnosis.
No, it' s not thatyou put on a label of yourself you
have such a thing, but youjust accompany. No yes, yes,
of course, the task of thefacilitator is a little like sustaining the journey
(43:51):
that each one is taking, ofcourse, each person and flourishing in his
psyche with a different thing with anothere. And well, I mean,
let' s also say from Westernmedicine, because suddenly there will be diagnoses.
(44:19):
A diagnosis finally, it' slike a constellation of symptoms. There
' s not this symptom, thisone and this one. And what I
saw, for example, grof isthat those symptoms are held on a,
on a pillar, over as anintrapsychic energy column of that same characteristic.
(44:44):
So, for example, if thesymptom is sadness, then probably and I,
in everyday life, all of asudden I feel sad and I don
' t know why if and Istart looking at not that symptom a little
bit more, open a bit likethis folder, because they are saved,
(45:06):
say, as the symptoms by foldersof physical or emotional sensations, and I
start to see that there, insidethat folder there is and content. Suddenly
in the stage, in the stageof then in the biographical unconscious, of
a sadness that lacked me to cryfor the death this for this another begin
(45:29):
further down as from the personal,to find that in the childhood such thing
I am going to transport it,to the operi natal, where there are
these moments as of sensation, asof of sadness, of disconnection. And
within the transpersonal, then also alittle bit like being able to enter that
(45:53):
folder of contents and start cleaning,cleaning, cleaning, pulling out that face.
That' s a seat. Duringbreathing, Yes, during breathing,
you can contact one of these foldersthat are system are called condensed experience systems
or coix then you start as youpull the contents out of that folder,
(46:15):
to clean not what was left pendingand cry, if it is sadness to
cry it. Yeah, then youstart generating a drop in all that intrapsychic
energy that held the symptom. Yeah,' cause you start working, but
from the base. I mean.That is why these types of therapies generate
(46:38):
a possibility of causal healing. Imean, it' s not like psychopharmaceuticals
that inhibit your symptom, but theylet you get to the root and clean
everything up. And then, whenI no longer have the intrapsychic energy that
sustains that symptom, because already thesymptom begins to disappear and as we said
(47:00):
that a pathology is like a constellationof symptoms, then if suddenly I start
to work and that symptom no longerexists and this one does not exist,
and this other neither, then pathologiesbegin to cease to exist. That'
s why Groff saw when I beganto work the expanded states of consciousness as
(47:22):
powerful and powerful potential to work thepsyche from the bottom not that it actually
allows people to cover themselves in avery deep way. And that' s
how it works. And there's something else to say. There'
s like two, two, two, two ways as important work. One
(47:46):
is like a state of cleaning upthe emotions and things that have remained there,
which are like what would be called, because a commission trauma, something
that you have felt unpleasant or violentthat has left there an intrapsychic content,
repressed that not of which you arenot aware. And there are other types
(48:07):
of traumas, which is the traumaof omission, which is, when you
have needed affection, affection or containmentand you have not received it, then
that type of trauma, during thistype of therapies can also be sealed healed
because you may at that time reissuethat moment in which you needed that affection,
(48:35):
because we are mammals. To beholy, we need affection, containment,
to feel adequate and there the therapistcan help with the stimulus that was
needed at that time, to givea hand, to give a hug,
to get to leave also sealing thatmark of pain. So it' s
(49:00):
nice how to weave a deep healingnot like from the inside of every wonderful
person. Well, we' llhave to have the experience welcome to those
who marvel Well, let' sdo a little practice to close the program.
(49:25):
You' re listening, thinking withthe body, taking care. The
body is the space created to giveyou some ways to be better in your
body through movement. Conscious note howsmall changes in attention provide transformations in your
(49:51):
movement, in daily life and yoursense of well- being. When we
were preparing the program with Natalia andI said good and in the end,
then what do you do to usa little breathing demonstration. I tropic it.
(50:12):
That' s where he tells meno. That couldn' t be
done. What do you think?So, well, I understand that what
is all a good preparation and forgivethe question as so bold of me.
So, then, we' regoing to do an exercise in connection with
breathing, just as simple, aswe do in this program. Then I
(50:36):
' m going to invite you toclose your eyes, where you are,
connect with the soles of your feetand stay as with what is the feeling
that surrounds today your body notes likethis, there is some tension somewhere.
(50:57):
The shoulders, the jaw, theneck, the legs, the arms.
That' s like a scan.It is called this is a look for
your whole being, but more thanlooking and judging is observing, observing and
(51:22):
observing that which attracts your attention,which attracts attention. Then it may attract
attention some support that you do therein your nagas in the seat or maybe
your feet on the floor or maybethe forms as your arms rest and allow
you to observe what appears no matterwhat it is then with gentleness, with
(51:51):
kindness and also inviting the mind,the beginner. The beginner mind is the
mind that, as if it werethe first time you did this and every
time you do it, do itas if it were the first time.
That allows you to be surprised bywhat you find every day, each experience
(52:15):
is different. Then feel there howyou perceive yourself, how you perceive the
climate, the environment, the temperatureof the environment, if it is cold,
if it is warm, if itis warm, if it is pleasant,
(52:39):
if it is not so pleasant,it draws attention to your breathing,
but without changing it and notice.So you can feel er is the first
(53:01):
moment the air enters and the momentthe air starts to come out, and
you notice if there' s anypause between the entrance and the exit and
(53:32):
it allows the air to enter,enter, enter, and enter, and
after the air comes out, itcomes out and it comes out and feels
(53:57):
there how you perceive yourself and notesand as you breathe in this mode it
is that it listens. In thatway of listening, you can realize if
some thought appears, some emotion appears, it seems consent and observes good loma,
(54:22):
you are around here sadness or joyrage. Let yourself see it,
see it, whatever' s infront of you and good that happens,
(54:49):
when you just have it in frontof you what' s going on and
if there' s nothing special likeyou' re still there connected to your
breathing. Well, it' sokay to also keep in touch with your
(55:31):
breathing. If some thought appears,if it wants to take you away,
do not talk to the thought thathas to come and he will leave if
you continue with attention and breathing.And turning me there like the support of
(56:14):
the plants, of the feet,of your ispions, there is in your
buttocks and moving me like a littlebit such happy onto opening your eyes and
I' m going to invite youto wake up and to despair invites you
(56:43):
ay then allow yourself the yawn alsoay I love yawning them. Ay comes
and is that moreover we have restrictedthe roughness and the yawning room we punish
socially, Ahorita, not here Ihave but Natalia enel are that see me
yawn then that you who hear mevery well and stay there as ok has
(57:06):
appeared and with the feeling that youhave thinking with the body is led by
Victoria Molina. Well, we've come to the end of the Natalia
(57:32):
program. Thank you very much,but I want you to tell us where
to write before we say goodbye,contact us when they are your workshops.
I think that' s very important. Thank you, well, a real
taste. Thank you very much,I, I adore, this technique for
(57:53):
me has been absolutely beautiful, powerfuland it is a taste as a power
to share it. Not me,well, I don' t have instagram
or Facebook. E Na is likeNatalia, Sarama Sarama, scon zet and
(58:15):
the phone with Whatsapp, because I, Luas speak it enough because when I
am in consultation. They don't answer calls, but then I update
the whatsapp. It' s three, fourteen, three, nine, five,
seven, seven, three, seven, the next trophic breathing workshop we
(58:37):
have scheduled for the twenty- fifthof this month. So those who want
the quotas are limited. So,then, to measure, because they are
filling up and you already do ithere in Bogotá. The workshops are made
in close to Bogotá, on afarm in zipacón, a very beautiful space
(58:59):
with the perfect conditions to carry outthis type of workshops. All right,
well, good luck, Natalia hasso many thanks. He really learns a
lot every time I have someone onthe show and then, well, thank
you so much. Well, rememberthat you can follow us through this Instagram,
(59:19):
Twitter, YouTube, as Rosario Radioand good thanks to Nelson Duarte,
who accompanies the Master Control, MarioCasto, director of the Broadcaster. Remember
that Victoria Molina spoke to you andI invite you. I invite you to
continue with the station' s programming. Thank you. He ends a space
(59:55):
where he knew about body- mindrelationships and understood the potential s, wisdom
and intelligence of the human body.One hour with the radio show of the
physiotherapy program of the University of Rosario, thinking with the body, come and
discover everything that can be done,learn and feel from the consciousness of living
(01:00:15):
in motion. See you soon,this was thinking with the body.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!