Reviewing what went right and wrong with the Steelers 2025 draft

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Underground, The steel City Underground, the black
and gold standard for Pittsburgh Steelers coverage.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now here's your hose.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Joe Kuzma and Brian E.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Rose.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another edition of the steel
City Underground podcast. My name is Joe Kuzman. Joining me
here my good colleague in pala one, mister Brian E.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Roach.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Brian, you know, we had a lot going on last
week through the weekend. We're finally back around to look
at the Steelers draft. But before we do that, I
gotta ask how you doing, my friend?

Speaker 2 (00:42):
So let me tell you. Let me ask you a question.
Have you ever tried to shave or trim in a camera?

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (00:50):
No, but I'm trimming you off very now.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's very It's very disturbing because unless your camera can
do mirror image, it's impossib So I almost cut this
whole thing off because I was trying to clean myself
because you know, I want to look pretty for the people.
I had to trim up some of my gray shaggy beard,
leaving you know, the goateee, of course, but it was difficult,

(01:15):
so I had to I had actually joined a zoom meeting,
so that I could mirror my camera so that I
could actually do it.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Oh, there you go, there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, where there's a will, there's a way. And by
the way, who's your Huckleberry.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
I'm your Huckleberry Cobbler. What a great movie. And Val
Kilmer just recently passing too.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Oh, just you know, and we all reached there someday
father father time is undefeated. Unfortunately, yep, comes for us
all in different ways or there's just you know, unforeseen circumstances,
not the way you want to open the show. But
Ryan Watts, last year's six round pick safety defensive back.
I was, man, I was counting on them, and maybe

(01:58):
the Steelers knew a little more with medicals and what
was going to happen. And he's been released, recommended to
not play contact sports again, particularly football. So that's that's
rather unfortunate. You know, the our thoughts certainly go out
to him and his family and friends and everyone surrounded that,
because it's like you go from you know, probably you

(02:20):
go from highs and lows too, And we were saying
that about Derek Carmon just the other day as well.
So we're in this period where you know, we now
know the entire Steelers draft class too, and we kind
of get an inkling as to what their what their
process may have been. And I know there's some people
that are still kind of holding on to this, maybe

(02:41):
I believe far fetched notion of they didn't know what
they were going to do, and that just goes from
the Melkkipers of the world who felt Shador Sanders was
like the fifth best player in the entire draft. And
not to talk too much about Sanders, but it is
funny since we last met that the brown swung back
around and then picked them, which totally. You see everybody

(03:03):
that's into booth there in Cleveland and they're like, you know,
it's like this little leg not even a golf clap,
like they're doing the jazz hands thing or like the
audio sensory kind of they were not. They were not
necessarily it looked like Jimmy Haslam was like take that
guy or something. You know, they had they had some
type of pressure because they'd already taken Dylan Gabriel and

(03:24):
what a what a wide or what a not the
wide receiver room, although they got Deontay Johnson now too,
so the wide receiver room in Cleveland not.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
But wow.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I mean we talked about whether or not were the
Steelers like screwing up the quarterback position where they I mean,
this is like they're just throwing all everything out there
and seeing what kind of sticks in Cleveland, And I'd
at least say, well, Omar Cohn's not doing that. I
think they had they have a plan. And whether that
plan still involves mister Rogers or whatever, We'll get to
that in a little bit. But I like it better

(03:56):
than maybe Kenny Pickett, now, who didn't want to compete
last year. Now as two rookies coming in with them,
and Joe Flaco in there, and who knows what Deshaun
Watson still.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Do and they're not taking his fifth year option nope.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
So hey, hey, that's rough. But we were talking about
how this.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Class was a lot like Pickett's class. I think the
Steelers did learn their lesson from before, and you just
saw I mean, where did Shador end up going like
one twenty five or something like that. I'll find it,
but that's how many times teams passed and teams were
looking at I mean, Brown's went and got Dylan Gabriel

(04:34):
over him. Cal McCord went to the Eagles, and you know,
it was right in that area where we talked about
the Steelers maybe interested in McCord or Howard, and we
saw how that ended up. But let's start at the
very top, because instead of going quarterback and taking the
extreme reach, you have Derek Carmon coming in, and this

(04:55):
is a guy that could play all along the line.
Looks like a potential fit to be the heir to
soon to be thirty six year old Cameron Hayward, still
an elite player. But again, father time will eventually catch
up to you and somebody's got to be there to
replace you. So father time being undefeated, I think that

(05:16):
the I think this was the better, the better fit
for the Steelers because a lot of folks were just
looking at quarterback, quarterback, quarterback. I look at like what
Tomlin has gotten out of guys like a first year
playing Mason Rudolph in twenty nineteen with a bunch of
no names basically on the offense, while Juju and James
Connor were hurt, Deontay was a rookie and even he

(05:36):
was bleeding out of his ear if you remember.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
That was a thing too.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
It was just a comedy airs that season and he's
starting a Nick Vinette, Johnny Holton and all that. But
he got it out of he got He squeezed something
out of Duck Hodges too, and he's always gotten something
out of his players, be it a Landry Jones or
be it even Trubisky's probably the worst of the lot
by far, but oh god, can't he Pickett? And missing

(06:01):
someone in here? Oh yeah, justin Fields and Russell Wilson,
of course. And he's still a playoff team. And I
know they didn't well, Joe Briant. They still haven't won
a playoff game, but it's like they're still there. They're
like a piece or a part way. But the main
problem last year was it couldn't stop the opposing offenses,
even with a lot of the defense, even the defensive
depth that was supposed to step in and play, And couldn't.

(06:22):
You've got to play Derrick Henry at least twice a year.
Last year they had to play him three times. Derek
Harmon is a pick to help stop the Derrick Henry's
of the world and the Plothora of running backs the
Browns are putting.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
On their roster.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Absolutely. Look, this is what I'm gonna say, about Shadur Sanders, Right,
Do I think that better quarterbacks that he was better
than some of the quarterbacks drafted before him. Probably? Do
I think that he should have been a first round pick. No,
I think I've been pretty clear about that. I didn't
think any of them, including cam Ward, were necessarily first
round graded picks. I think that if Shador Sanders had

(06:59):
been there when the Steelers picked and took Will Howard,
there was equally as a chance that they would think
of But that's where they were gonna target it late
in the draft, right, And I will I will just
say this, Look, if half the half the statements about
his interviews are true, that's gonna throw any NFL franchise off.

(07:19):
If if you are a rookie, and it has nothing
to do with cockiness, it has nothing to do with pride,
it has nothing to do with confidence. It has to
do with this is a team sport, and you cannot
come in and dictate this is how it's gonna go. Right.
They want people who are going to contribute to the program,
not be a distraction from the program. So I can
understand why maybe his draft stack or his draft stock

(07:41):
tanked a little bit. I don't think it has anything
to do with half the stuff that people are talking about.
I think it has to do with how he worked
with those with those franchises, and quite honestly, simply the
fact that this is not a great talented draft class
and without the number two pick? What's with his name? Hunter?

(08:02):
Is that? Is that right? Am I getting the right Hunter?

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah? Travis Hunter?

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Travis Hunter. I don't know that we're having a Shooter
Sanders conversation. You go back and look at his tape.
It's not that the throws are god awful. It's not
that he can't get the ball down there. But look
at how many times Hunter makes up for the mistakes
in ball placement that Sanders had. It's a lot. So

(08:26):
I'm not I just am not convinced that he didn't
go exactly where he needed to go. Now that being said,
I actually feel a little bad for the kid. He's
in that draft. He may never hit the field. He
has to outperform Dylan Gabriel, drafted ahead of him, higher
draft capital. He has to outperform Kenny Pickett. May not
be that hard uperform Joe Flacco also may not be

(08:48):
that hard, But you know when you're fourth probably on
the you know the t pecking post there. When you're
fourth on the on the on the board, you're not
getting a ton of opportunity, right He really has to
shine or he's gonna just fade.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
So I get that.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
I don't feel like this was the best place for
him to end up.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
No, No, that's a that's a mess of a situation.
If they hadn't taken Gabriel, it's the same thing as
here with.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Im, then I might have changed my two and they
don't take Gabriel what around before they take.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Them fourth round?

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, then then maybe it's a good opportunity. But right
now I feel like he's in potentially the worst position
for his potential success. And again, let me be clear,
I hope, well he's on the Browns. I can't really
hope he's successful. But for the most part, I hope
all these kids are successful and have a nice career
and a long lasting career. You know, I just think

(09:46):
it's unfortunate that that that's where he ended up.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, take a look at who was the Steelers fourth
quarterback last year going into camp? You remember I do.
It took me a second as I was thinking of
asking you the question. John he's Plumbley out of South Florida.
I remember the AULTI Sport Star and he actually got
the return, had to return kicks and stuff to try
and get a shot at making even the practice squad.

(10:10):
And you know, at least with Shador, he doesn't have
the first round hype. But I mean he has the
name on the back of the jersey, and I think
if his name was anything else, Johnson, Williams, Smith, anything, Jones,
something just generic and not tied to coach Prime, there's
a lot of stuff with that. There's people who are
talking about Daddy Ball. You know, his dad was the coach.
Even you know Jackson State Division two jumps up, does

(10:33):
he start, does he get recruited, does he play? You know,
there's a lot of those question marks that were going
into it, and maybe that elevated his presence. And even
in our minds, there's a lot of lies that are
told this time of year, but there's there's a lot
of there's a lot of truths too.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Everybody knew.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
They were like, oh, we're gonna dangle this cart and
said we can get some sucker and then we take
this and then we'll take somebody else, like a Jalen
Milroe or something, and nobody was taking it because he
didn't perform a combine, he didn't perform any pro days,
he didn't want to take certain interviews. It was like
a very like shut door, like very overconfident, you know
what I mean. And it was just that kind of

(11:11):
shuts the door on what I want to say about
Chador entirely he turns out to have in any kind
of pro career, great, but maybe somebody else kicks the
tires on him if he doesn't make Cleveland's team. But
somebody said that too. They said, well, they're the Browns
are takeing Sanders and then they could use him as
trade bait. And it was the same thing I said
about Joe Milton with the Patriots, and they're like, oh,

(11:33):
they're going to develop them, and I'm like, the whole
coaching staff is gone after a year. What'd you get
for Joe Milton? What are you gonna get for Shador
Sanders when he's you know, taken into fifth round and
nobody wanted him after one hundred and fifty picks to
begin with.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
I don't think there's a whole lot there.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Like he was picked one for four overall, like it
was very close to well middle of the fifth round.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
So yeah, I'm happy to eat my words. If he
turns into the next coming, I just don't see it,
and I don't see it from looking at his tape either. Look,
I get everybody out there, it's like, oh, watch the games.
I watched every game and he's amazing. No he's not.
He's just not all right, And I don't like, I

(12:18):
do think he's got the potential to have a career
in the NFL, probably the same one that most fifth
round or fourth round or third round quarterbacks have as
a backup. I just don't see him as a franchise quarterback.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, and that's gonna just jump us straight too. We
have talked about Harmon quite a bit. We'll come back
to him and also Caleb Johnson, who we spoke of
on the last on the Last show, Steelers, you know,
only two top one hundred picks. We'll come back to
ya Black too, because we're on the quarterbacks. And you
make a lot of decent points here about art Renia

(12:53):
second comes out and says, anybody ticket from this point
is probably going to be a sit for a year,
and That's probably the best thing that Will Howard can do. Now,
who's he's sitting behind, is he's sitting behind Mason Rudolph
or Rooney. He's expecting Aaron Rodgers. And at this point,
you know, I was listening to the XM radio. I
think this morning was Ed McCaffrey, and like the media
people are like, oh, well, Kirk Cousins, and you know,

(13:15):
there's maybe a report or there's just speculation. And I
don't think that the Steelers are the team to speculate
about Kirk Cousins because they played him last year and
they saw like how limited he was now whether or
not that was still recovering from an achilles or whatever.
They're saying, oh, well, maybe some of his mechanics were
off and he's still recovery. But Atlanta's full go with

(13:37):
the guy that they're paying obscenes amount of money to
to have him as a backup. They're full go with
Michael Pennix. So that's got to tell you something too.
Unless it's just a bad or dumb coaching stuff, I
don't see Kirk Cousins being any kind I'll put it
this way, Brian, would you rather trade for Kirk Cousins
and pay Atlanta wants at least twenty monion of his

(14:00):
contract covered. Or would you take a year of Aaron
Rodgers saying he'd play for ten million at he's forty
one going on forty two.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Let me let me put it this way. One of
the things that I thought was the most insightful things
said by any talking head during the draft was we
are making all kinds of speculations about Kirk Cousins, and
he just may end up being the backup quarterback in Atlanta.
And we could all be wrong, because that's what I
think is going to happen, right, don't I don't think

(14:32):
anybody's going to take on that amount of contract for
a player that is obviously on the decline. Would I
rather have Aaron Rodgers than Kirk Cousins. Look, I don't
know that I have a vomit bucket, handy.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
I just thought you were looking for the sarcasm sign again.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Well I could do that too.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
There you go, there it is.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Would I rather have? Of course I would rather have. No,
I don't want either one of them. Roll with Mason,
but okay, but okay, if Aaron Rodgers comes, Look if
he's willing. If he's willing to actually come and be
a participant and be follow the path of past Steelers

(15:16):
and pass on some knowledge, maybe he's finally gonna get
it in his head. Hey, this is the end. I
should try and have some kind of a legacy with
somebody else, and he can teach Will Howard a thing
or two.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Great.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Great, but yeah, I'd rather he wasn't here.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
I'm with you on that one. I was just kind
of curious. I'm definitely not trading for Kirk Cousins. I
don't care how many picks the Steelers have next year.
I don't care if it's a sixth or seventh. I mean,
that's that's what they already did for Justin Fields. Justin Fields,
for me, at least, had some maybes about like, hey,
is ceiling could be here, he could be coached up,
he could do And then he saw him playing and

(15:53):
was like, well, it's pretty much the same thing as
Chicago and this isn't you know, there's no upward trends
here and there's still people. Oh they should have resigned
Justin Fields. What's this team doing? And you know they
finally would pick one to eighty five in the sixth round.
I thought it was like kind of I want to say,
a master class of drafting. I think Omar Kahn and
I think there's something that we continue to overlook, basically

(16:14):
from last year. We haven't had a chance to talk
about how many players from last year's class are going
to get to play this year that didn't last year.
You have Troy Fopanu for example. You have Roman Wilson still,
you have Logan Lee on the defensive line, so you've
got some fresh blood coming in. It's almost like draft picks.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
With that.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
You took your second rounder and you got dk Metcalf,
who's head and shoulders above anybody that you were going
to get in the second round or probably in the
entire draft.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Pick in the entire draft.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Well, yeah, at wide receiver, you did not move from
George Pickins, which there was smoke around the front, and
really there wasn't a whole lot of trading. Who's to
say that still might not happen, but yeah, Jalen Ramsey
up for grabs. You have Trey Hendrickson complaining about his
contract in Cincinnati. There's few others. I think there's jyr
Alexander's another corner that's looking Dallas. Goddard was thought to

(16:59):
maybe on the market, and so there's a lot of
players that were thought to be on the market and
it was very quiet. The movement wasn't really there aside
from Jacksonville. That was the that was the big swing
along with the Giants, but Giants going after Jackson Dart
and I think Pro Football Focus for example, had Jackson
Dart is like their sixth or seventh quarterback. He was

(17:19):
way below Okay, he was below Riley Leonard, Will Howard,
Jalen Milroe, Shador, and cam Ward, so he was the
sixth guy down on that list and actually having they
had Will Howard as the fourth guy. But then again
they have him on the big board as one twenty
two and the Steelers ended up getting grabbing him at
one eighty five. And there's people that, you know, there's

(17:40):
criticism about this. And let's talk about Will Howard for
a second. Because we were talking about Chador and having
Travis Hunter a team that went nine to four. We're
talking about Will Howard who just won a national title
with Ohio State, and everybody's saying, well, what did he do?
You know, when he was over at Kansas State for
a few years and he still showed enough. But this

(18:01):
was something I think I Will Howard plays maybe two
seasons at Ohio State and he puts up more more
take How is that any different than Joe Burrow throwing
the guys like Justin Jefferson or Jamar Chase while he's there.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
I know he threw sixty touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Okay, but Clyde Edward Hilaire as they're running back at
LSU two. Will Howard though he might jump, he could
jump in. Maybe he's been with guys that are top
pro level people. He had Chip Kelly as at OC,
he had Trevon Henderson and quinch On Jenkins. He had
Jeremiah Smith. He's got He had a Mecca book, got
a lot of weapons that were there, and did very

(18:37):
well with what he had, won the first, you know,
expanded college football playoff. He's six four, two thirty six.
A guy that doesn't take a lot of secks, doesn't
turn the ball over a whole lot. I'm not gonna
say he's a finished product. I don't know what his
arm strength looks like in the pros, or his anticipate
anticipation or timing, but at the same time it's a

(18:58):
guy you got with like pick one sixty for whatever,
Like it's we're not holding this twenty five. I'm sorry
what sixty four was?

Speaker 3 (19:06):
Black?

Speaker 1 (19:06):
So yeah, yeah, I mean I don't think you could
go wrong here. And I think we were correct in
our assessment that McCord or Howard were always going to
be the target. McCord going a few picks earlier into
the Eagles left Howard for the Steelers.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, I'm gonna say this. You know, we talked about
did the Steelers have a plan for the draft. They
absolutely had a plan for the draft, and they executed
that plan. As much as I belittle most of the
talking heads, and I will and continue to do so,
you know, they all think this was the fourth best
draft of any group in the draft. Right, they're ranking
the Steelers universally as a great draft class. And while

(19:44):
I hate agreeing with them, I actually think they did
a really nice job. Right. I think they've got they
got the D line addrafted in two places. Right, They've
got that prototypical Casey Hampton like nose tackle that everybody's
been crying about. And whether that's what he plays or not,
that's the body type that he has, Right, the guy's

(20:05):
gonna eat up blocks and he's gonna free up space.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Why Iowa by the way back and you've got you know,
the running back who has Le'Veon Bell type characteristics?

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Is he Le'Veon Bell? Probably not. I mean that's you know,
it's hard. That's hard praise to give anybody initially, and
and there's certain parts of that. We don't want him
to be Le'Veon Bell in a round two, right, we
don't want him to do the stuff at the end.
But you know it is, you know, a solid running back,
a two solid defensive line picks. You know the quarterback.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
Look.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
I will say this. I've seen people reposting and reposting
and reposting John Gruden's quarterback cap. Joe will Howard is
the greatest quarterback. I got some guys out there comparing
him to to Josh Allen. I'm like, slow your role
a little bit. All right. We watched Will Howard every
game under the microscope, right, because we're Buckeye fans. We

(21:05):
watched every game of Will that Will Howard played. And
he's not Josh Allen.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
No, no, no, no, that's.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Pretty It's not the greatest quarterback since sliced bread. Somebody
posted a picture of like one of those like eyeglass things,
and they said, and they had a picture of you know,
Will and then Ben. He ain't Ben, all right? Do
I think he has potential? Sure? Could he turn into something? Sure?
He could also just be a guy who's a backup

(21:35):
quarterback for the rest of his life. It depends on
how he develops. And do I do I know the
answers that no nobody else does either. Look, we talked
about eighteen percent of quarterbacks drafted in the top ten
our success eighteen percent. Nobody knows how to evaluate quarterbacks.
You don't know what you've got. It all depends on
a variety of things, the things surrounding them, the system

(21:58):
that they're in. Who knows, right, it's a crap shoot
with quarterbacks. And it's not even as good of odds
as a crap shoot. So let's see what he does.
I think he's going to have an opportunity. But slaw
your role in assuming he's the second coming, because we
don't know that yet.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
He's got Big Ben's size, he doesn't have Big Ben pedigree,
and even big Ben, you know, a lot of people said,
is this a mac guy. This is a guy coming
out of Miami University in Ohio, not the one in Florida.
That's not the one that's known to produce a lot
of NFL caliber players, let alone a Hall of Famer

(22:38):
or a franchise quarterback. You know, Howard's got some He's
got some intangibles to work with. I like the unknown
I do. I'd rather the devil I don't know than
the devil I know. Justin Fields was the one I knew, well,
Howard's the one I don't And even to this extent
me being a stand a lot of times for Mason Rudolph.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
A year away. Did it do him good?

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Did he learn some things from Brian Callahan while he
was down in Tennessee? What was that experience like playing
with a very bad football team? I mean he did
have Calvin Ridley for and Hopkins for a minute down there.
But aside from that, does he come back to Arthur
Smith and is he capable? You know, he had a
Hodgepodge set of offensive court dators. He had dealt with

(23:22):
Randy Fickner and having no quarterback coach, he dealt with
Matt Canada wanted to give a little bit of benefit
of the doubt, he's seen a thing or two. But
at the same time, so as well, Howard, what do
you think what are these teams? Do you think that
he's playing against versus you know, Shador for example. I mean,
Howard literally is playing against all these guys that were
getting picked over the weekend, like at every level of

(23:42):
the college football playoff.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
So that that says something.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
But usually when you're down in this level of the draft,
there's not a lot of expectation. It's not a throwaway pick.
And I got to go to jump over. We're jumping around,
but we got to go to his teammates with the
Buck guy's Jack Sawyer, Captain Jack. We do and people talk, yeah,
and I don't think.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
That's one more thing about Will Howard first, Yeah, sure thing.
The one thing you can say about him and about
Jack Sawyer. They're winners. Right, forget the Michigan game. I
blame that on Ryan Day. They're winners. For the most part.
He won when he was at Kansas State. He won
wins a national championship in Ohio State, right, the Big
twelve or whatever, the championship they won at Kansas State.

(24:29):
And so the kid's a winner. He's got the right moxie,
he's got the right attitude. Let's give him the shot.
All right, Now we can move on to Captain Jack.
One of the greatest things about Jack Sawyer is that
Will Howard said, if there's one guy on the team
I would bring with me, it's Jack Sawyer.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
I was looking for my Jack Sawyer picture. He's if
you don't know, as far as moxy and being a teammate.
When Michigan went to plant the flag in the middle
of the field at Ohio Stadium, he was part of
the Yeah, he was part of that. So if you
got somebody that's going to wipe their cleats with a
terrible towel, that's the guy you want covering your back.

(25:06):
But how many times have we talked about where TJ.
Water Ox Highsmith gets hurt and over the years, you
know Nick Krbig was a fined I think Jack Sawyer
could be a very similar fine middle round where people
are overlooking him, shorter arms or maybe the forty time
isn't exactly. They didn't stop the stop Watch exactly where
they would have liked it. But the intangibles to play
against the run, the tangisibles to rush the quarterback, those

(25:29):
are all there. He will probably be a special teams player,
primarily for the first year. I don't know that they'd
be in inactive, but let's put that up against grabbing
guys that are thirty two years old, like a Melvyn
Ingram or a Marcus Golden or trading for a Malik Reed.
None of those have worked out. The older veteran pass
rushers if not worked out when there's a need on

(25:51):
the field to either for substitution or injury just to
give somebody a breather, it's not worked out and it
gets exploited when you have to put those guys out there.
And this is TJ. Watt turning thirty. That's far from
him not being in his prime. His best years are now,
but you also want to make sure he can last
a seventeen game season because when you don't have them,

(26:11):
things tend to turn south. So, also looking toward the future,
I don't know what Alex Heismith's year looks like this year.
Last year was a bit of a down year. I
won't call it a full disappointment, but it was underwhelming
compared to his first several years. And prior to landing
the big contract. Now he's got that big contract and
we're in it beyond this year. If he has another

(26:32):
season like last, you're starting to look at herbig's contract
coming up, and you now might have your eyes already
set on the next guy and Sawyer to fill into
that rotation, to have a little bit of youth and
an influx. So I had no problem. In fact, when
I saw Laythan Ransom go and I saw Cody Simon go,
both Ohio State players on the defense right before the

(26:55):
Jack Sawyer pick, and my mind was immediately going. I
was like, oh Simon, oh he was there. I was like,
that would have been a nice pick. I'm like, you
necessarily need it. They have Malie Harrison and all the
other inside linebackers, Cole hol Come coming back. But Lathan Ransom.
I was starting to think, Okay, what did the Steelers
have signed? One Thornhill? So they've got a veteran utility
type safety that's there. So this this fits in with

(27:17):
everything you add Ya Black from Iowa, all Big ten
like this is like all Big ten Steelers Weather. You
know some haases here. Derek Harmon is so Derek Harmon,
Why black Jack Sawyer. This all fits in. You get
Logan Lee back, another Hawkeye, another Iowa product. You bring
all of these guys back in. And Montravius Adams got released,

(27:39):
So that's another sign there. You've got louder Milk back.
You put that with Bent, and you put that with Hayward.
You got Hi Smith and Watt. Those are your starters.
You got the other guys behind it. It's starting to
look like a very deep defense on every level that
you're going to need to be able to stop Derek Henry,
to stop the Patrick Mahomes guys of the world. The
Saquon Barkley's all that that you're gonna have to face
in order to win a playoff game or end up

(28:01):
being a contender, as long as you have a quarterback
who's an a game manager and doesn't turn the ball over.
Howard doesn't really fit that description. I don't think Rudolph
fits that description. I don't think Aaron Rodgers will fit
that description. Kirk Cousins, on the other hand, I don't know.
So Defensively, I'm missing somebody too. Where we're at further

(28:21):
down in the draft, Dante Kent, Central Michigan. Maybe a
Nickel corner prospect at two twenty nine. Maybe it means
they're not totally sold on Beatie Bishop. Maybe it's just
adding another body. Maybe he'll be a practice squad type guy.
They're taking a flyer on it. It's an extra pick
from the one before. It was Carson Bruner, also linebacker.
I guess I gotta remember this isn't the tight end Bruner.

(28:44):
This is Mark's kid though, from being the first round
pick of the Steelers like about thirty years ago. But
yet another player that you know there are bottom of
the roster guys that can fill out, help with special teams.
Maybe they amount to something, maybe they don't. But it's
all very focused on plans to make sure they have
the best defense they could field with no goals, no

(29:05):
no leaks, no no weakest link, anything like that. And
I thought they did a very solid job with the
entirety of the draft in doing that, and then also
where they went at quarterback, and of course, like you said,
the running back out of Iowa, Caleb Johnson. I don't
see a whole lot of I don't see where they

(29:25):
could have done anything differently. The only oddity is you've
got two wide receivers that are on expiring contracts this
year Pickins and on Calvin Austin. Usually they get ahead
of that, but not this year, not this draft class,
and just to no long winning here. But they added
Robert Woods thirty two years old, maybe a little off injured,

(29:47):
but he's a guy that can also contribute on special teams.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
It could be a returner.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
And if it's somebody you have that's a veteran presence
that's a little deeper on the bench, I'm all for it.
He's always been a solid player everywhere he's He's just
had trouble staying on the field. So this whole approach
by Omar Khan and the Steelers' front office, like you said,
everyone's given him pretty high praise. Not being a homer here,
I thought this was aside from where the talking heads
had them trying to land some quarterback where they probably shouldn't.

(30:16):
I thought they did a fantastic job.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Remember what I said at the beginning of this, play
this safe right build the team, don't take big swings
at risky prospects, And that's exactly what they did. They
built the core of their team by doing the things
that they planned to do all along, right. You know,
the scuttle butt is that it was one of the three, Nolan,

(30:41):
Grant or Harmon. Nolan and Grant were gone, and with
Harmon still there, it was easy for them. You know.
They described him as a player they're not trading away from,
so you know, maybe they had the opportunity to trade back,
but they were worried Harmon wouldn't be there if they did,
and they're like, forget it, we're not going to do it.
Not trading away from a player means that's a player
you had targeted already. Uh, you know, the same thing

(31:04):
I think is true of Johnson. I don't think they
thought he'd be there in the third round.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
It was a deep running back class. Some of those
running backs went much earlier than I thought they would,
you know, and nonetheless they get a guy that was
ranked great value in the third round. I love the
why Black pick, you know, I think I thought this
overall was a very good draft. And we'll see what

(31:30):
Will Howard can contribute as he's given time to develop
a little bit. You know, let's not let's not try
and rush him into the starting lineup though. Uh, he
he needs a little season.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, with you too. He got Jalen Warren for that.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
You got Jalen Warren for the pass pro We talked
about that and Jalen Warren.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
I don't know the most durable I know.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I was getting into some debates about, you know, Kenneth
Gainwell's maybe presence on the roster, whether or not I
will be there. He's another guy that could be a returner.
You're not gonna want Warren returning anything now that he's
gonna be presumed at least one A, maybe with a
one B with Johnson. I think Johnson could hop in
here very soon and maybe be the one A. And

(32:16):
will you take all of Nause's workload? No, because Nagi
was starting to slip and lose some workload to Jalen
Warren to begin with.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
The Only other.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Concern I have, I mean, nickel Corner still could be concerning.
You might be a Beanie believer. Maybe Dante Kent flashes
and shows you something to Steelers seem to just be
adverse to working on that position. Spike Hilton's still floating
around in free agency too. Although he ran his mouth enough,
he might still be he might still be out there.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
But I'm just saying, like maybe they maybe they look
for free agent at some point offensive line depth because
I'm not even sure the offensive line starters. I don't
know if they haven't fixed yet. Frasier, Yeah say mallow
mm hmm, okay, but Tonto's a complete question mark. McCormick
gets struggled in certain portions.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Last year.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
He was better against the past and he wasn't against
with the run. That's kind of an oddity. It's usually
the other way around.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Right.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Roger Jones has not played as a left tackle. Yeah,
and everybody a lot of questions. Yeah, he got like
Max Sharping and I think Kelvin Anderson or something like that,
somebody like that. That's you know, was like practice squad
or bottom of the roster inactive types that are your primary,

(33:36):
your primary backup options. And that's a little bit concerning
to me. But then again, would you have went defensive tackle.
You're not gonna go offensive tackle again for a third
year in a row. They'll just be sitting on the bench.
You're not gonna go that high in the first round.
You're probably not could go third round either, So we'll see.
I thought maybe a guard might get tucked away here
at some point. But you're talking seventh round. You're talking

(33:59):
about guys that may been going undrafted if the team
didn't already kind of have their name on the board somewhere.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Right. Yeah, I'll tell you this is the best thing.
One of the best things I like about this draft
is you already had the plate, the pieces in place
you thought for the offensive line. Right, you're hoping Broderick
Jones is the left tackle you need. You're hoping Troy
Faunau is the right tackle you need. You're pretty comfortable
with Samolow, and you're comfortable with Fraser. Yeah, you got
a question market guard, but you know, you feel like

(34:28):
you have the pieces. The best thing about what they're
gonna do is, like I said, I I still look
at next season as we're not going to win the
Super Bowl next season, and that's fine, right, But what
they are gonna be able to do is, know, do
we still have work to do on this offensive line?
And when we have all these draft picks, we're gonna
have the opportunity to do that. Right, you know, they

(34:49):
they're gonna get to know what they have is Broderick
Jones a guy that's gonna be able to take that
position or is are we gonna look at that as
a busted pick? Right? Is Troy font now are gonna
be the guy at right? And we'll see does Zach
Fraser continue to progress and do better as a center
in his second season. They have the opportunity to fix

(35:12):
it now if it's broken still, because they weren't going
to fix everything in this draft just wasn't possible. They
didn't have enough picks and less picks than they normally do.
They weren't fixing everything. They did fix a lot of
the biggest glaring holes minus quarterback, and maybe that's fixed too.
You just don't know, and I just don't think it

(35:32):
is for long term. I'm happy with where they ended
up at the end of this draft. I think they
are a more solidified roster than they were last year
in some of those positions, and I'm quite content with
assuming we will have a pick somewhere in the middle
of the first round.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
That's very possible.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I mean, everyone's really hedging their bets on every you
know everything, from Arch Manning, who may and I don't
even think he might come out for next year, to
you know, aller from Penn State and all these other quarterbacks,
and you just never know all anybody is going to
turn out.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
You never know. That's just the way it is.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
I don't know how Sanders is going to turn out
on all, Howard's going to turn out. And if they
get opportunity, if Drew Bledsoe doesn't get hurt, does Tom
Brady ever get on the field, and ever you ever
know that he's capable of doing, but having the legendary career,
he ended up having vomit a little bit in my
mouth saying that. But you got to give them as
flowers where they're due. So we'll be talking more about
this and in the future, Brian so uh, I mean,

(36:33):
you know.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
You've heard me say next year's quarterback class looks better
than this year's quarterback. Of course it does, it does,
But we might get to next year's quarterback class and
go vomit, it ends up looking terrible because maybe they
all stink next year, right, You just don't know. We're
basing that on projection when we say stuff like that,
and so is everybody else. Until you get another season

(36:54):
of these guys and you look at who who does
a great job, who does a bad job, who progresses
who regresses. You don't know what it's going to look like.
It could be just as bad or worse than this year.
Maybe there's only one guy. Maybe it's not even arch Manning, right,
maybe it's somebody else. We don't know what arch Manning
is yet. That's the only thing we know is he's
got that name.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
There it is, and it's the name. It's the same
reason everyone everyone's hyping him up. Thank you for saying that,
because it's been on my brain. I'm like everybody's hyping
up Shador Sanders because the coach prime is Dad. Everybody's
doing the same thing about the Banning legacy too. It's
the same exact thing.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
We don't know. And look at Quinn yours there started.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
To be able to that guy. Man he got posed, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
He got there's chatter about, you know, the previous year
he was going to be one of the top prospects
coming into distript The same way we're talking about it
now is the way we're looking at yours, maybe over
a year ago, the same exact way. So you just
you don't know how it's going to turn out. You've
got players, you know for years, you have players that
win the Heisman that aren't you know, aren't great pros.

(37:55):
And that's not just at the quarterback position, although that's
usually the one that wins the Heisman more more frequently
than not. But you know, Reggie Bush had a pretty
pedestrian you know, NFL career. He bounced around a lot.
And it's not to say that he was a complete
bummer or anything like that, but he didn't. He didn't
come out and he wasn't EMMITTT. Smith or Barry Sanders
or Walter Payton or anybody like that either. So uh,

(38:16):
but in college he was you know what I mean.
So you just never know. You just never know. And
there's many others that are like that over the years.
You go back to even Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf
and it's like, ooh that oar Is. It's only forever
link because of one and two. But Marcus Mariota, Jamis Winston,
you know all of that.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
So and how did either one of them really turn out?

Speaker 3 (38:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, yeah, I mean all the way around. So I'll
do it for us right now, folks. We don't ever
apply grades to the draft.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
It's just something. He asked me, what's what's your draft grade?

Speaker 1 (38:51):
And I'm like, hey, plus plus plus like gold a
bunch of gold stars, you know, A hundred percent, one
hundred and one percent.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
That's no.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
I won't know for three or four years probably, And
you look back on it, like you look back at
the draft with you know, nause and whatnot. You had
Dan Moore, you had Kendrick Green in that, and the
last band standing from that's Pat Fryermuth. That's you know,
it's a four year cycle. So we'd be looking back
at Kenny Pickett draft and all the players that come
along with some of that, and you're like, oh, okay,

(39:21):
well that was an A, that was a B give
it an A. Now my fantasy draft last year, I
got it like a D plus. I'm sitting there like,
how could I have a D plus? I had like
Josh Jacobs, I had Derek Henryes my running backs. I
ended up getting Joe Burrow in like the ninth round.
I ended up with I had tea dude. I smoked everybody.
I think I lost two games and I won the
Fantasy Championship and I went back and I pulled that

(39:43):
up and I was like D plus, uhuh yeah, Yahoo,
fantasy I'll show you. And that's the way these things
turn out. So anyways, I you know I have I
know you just pick all all Steelers in your fantasy draft,
and I wonder why you don't win.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Sometimes I don't do that.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
That's why I don't pick anybody. I don't do any
of it.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
He doesn't even update it.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
He doesn't even update his his roster for the week,
and got like Steelers are on a buy and just
everybody's still in there. It's like, whatever care, all right, folks,
Well I'll do it for us right now with our
little post draft review. And that's why I say it
for grade. I mean, I'm never too high on being
giving anything more than a B. Like I don't know
if something's in a I don't know something to see,

(40:27):
and I'm not going to say, oh, this is absolutely
terrible to ignore it. Every need uh the way every
way around it doesn't all fit, like you know, perfectly,
like that square hole square peg.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Type thing is. It's the round hole with the square peg.
So we'll find I'll.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Give it an A simply because it's the way I
wanted it to go. But you got the thing I
wanted to happen. Happened right here. I wanted minus Like
I didn't want them to draft Jack Sawyer, right, I
didn't want that, but I didn't. I'm not against it, right,
But I wanted a running back. I wanted double dipping
at the D line. I basically got my whole wishless.
So I'm giving him an all.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
And I wanted Howard. Actually I actually had. I had
Harmon and Howard and I had Henderson.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
I had three h's all there with their last names,
but Henderson, I was it was just a real I
was really wishing and praying and hoping because I didn't
really truly believe he was going to fall into the
third round. But I was like, well, maybe a few
of these other running backs somebody will take instead. And
that happened, I mean with Caleb Johnson because I didn't
see R. J. Harvey going ahead of him, and oh,

(41:30):
there we are. So you can never you never can tell.
But they'll do it for us for this show, folks,
don't forget the like comment and subscribe till next time.
Thank you for supporting steel City Underground. We're going to
be getting into a little bit slower of the off
season period we'll see if we get some extra news. Well,

(41:51):
look at how all these picks work.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
We'll look over.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
We'll kind of give a review of the maybe both
sides of the ball, a depth chart something like that.
So stay tuned here with us, and once again thank
you for watching or listening wherever you might be. My
name is Joe and his name is Brian. Well, next
time we encourage everyone out there to be safe.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Be good catch late. We would like it.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Thank you for listening, and remind our listeners to follow
us on social media and our website www dot steel
City Underground dot com

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