Will the Pittsburgh Steelers defense be elite in 2025?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Underground, The steel City Underground, the black
and gold standard for Pittsburgh Steelers coverage. Now here's your hoes.
Joe Kuzma and Brian E. Rose.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another edition of the steel
City Underground podcast. My name is Joe Kuzma, joined here
by my good colleague Buddy and Paula One and mister
Brian E. Roach. We are very close to football, like,
well somewhat football. Brian, are you excited? How you doing?
My friend?

Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm all right. You know, the house no longer stinks.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
We spent, you know, some ridiculous amount of money to
replace a sewer pipe.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
But hey, I'm you know so good. I got you.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
You're sitting like deep in there, man, like got your
head cut off. You're looking like you're kind of looking
like Santa today with the red shirt and the beard going.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
So yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
I think by the time the next time you see me,
I don't think this will be this will be this
length instead of this length.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Okay, and what length is that is? Brian, You're like
modoc or whatever out of the Marvel universe. Just the
floating a head take off. There we go. Brian's back
in full form, and we are too to some extent.

(01:30):
Like I said, we're getting ready for them to report,
and the Pittsburgh Steelers reporting and Saint Vincent's College in Lay,
true Pennsylvania, but just a tiny bit over a week away.
We're gonna get to see all the ridiculousness of let's
see who shows up in a fire truck or helicopter
or rolls. Actually, you know what, AB's not there anymore,

(01:51):
so you don't get as much of that hot air
balloon or whatever else might end up happening. But it
might be something cool. But it's exciting now because there's
a lot of change, a lot of movement with the Steelers,
and you know, we can't pack everything into one show
or else it'd be like five hours long. So we're
probably gonna focus on defense. Well or not. We think
they could be elite this year. We're gonna look at
the whole depth chart. Maybe we'll get some time to

(02:11):
talk special teams too, because I do think when you
throw special teams in there, the Steelers special team probably
fairly elite. You know, it's a good place actually to start.
I mean, Chris Boswell might be the best kicker in
the NFL right now, Danny Smith.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
You know a coach like never just never say that, Okay,
just never say that, because you know, you know that
with with kickers, there's you know, weirdness that gets in
their head, stuff that get the nips, the jyps, the whatever.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Don't say that.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
Never say Chris Boswell is the best kicker in the
NFL right now, Just say he's the Wizard of Boss.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Oh he's money, he was good enough. Oh he's definitely money.
He's excellent, especially justin Tucker no longer or anyone that
might affect the Ravens more than what anyone's talking about.
And you talk about like everybody's like, oh, you're gonna
talk about kickers and punters and not talking about TJ.
Watt right away. Well, yeah, actually, because we got to
find a place for kickers and punters. The reason Aaron

(03:10):
Rodgers didn't win a lot of games with the Jets
last year is because they had like four or five
different kickers, and in fact, I think Greg Zerline was
one of them actually that had a field goal or
extra point blocked when the Jets came in for the
Sunday night football game against the Steelers. I actually had
that earmarked somewhere. I'll pull up that statistic. But the

(03:31):
Steelers had done something that nobody else had done in
that game, you know, trying to find it was a
They became the first team in the NFL with a
blocked kick, punt, field goal, or extra point in three
straight games since the Patriots had done it in twenty seventeen.
So at that point, three straight blocks and they had one,
and they had one. If you remember Mika, he got

(03:54):
flagged for being off side or something. It didn't look
like it on the replay. It never does.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Remember, yes, bs, Danny.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Smith was going crazy, a lot of gum and everything
like that. So you know, the special teams for the
Pittsburgh Steelers fairly excellent. I would think as far as
your kickers, your punter, You've got Cameron Johnston returning from injury.
He was a high, highly valued prized freege at the
year before he got hurt in Atlanta Week one, so

(04:21):
he didn't see a whole lot of him. After that.
You got to see Boswell hunt of first last year.
So somebody that was in a pinch, you've got to
see somebody like Scottie Miller. He was doing all kinds
of extraud holding for extra points. So I mean give
some kudos to the special Teams group. And he still
got Cordless Weightman, who did an adequate job last year too.

(04:41):
We just don't know yet. Maybe who the returners are
going to be in this mix. It's gonna be somebody
that's probably wearing more than one hat, so to speak,
on this team, like yeah, Patterson before with kick returning.
Maybe at Kenneth Gainwell, who was doing some of that
with the Eagles. I don't know about Kelvin Austin returning
punts or not, depends on how large parola he has

(05:02):
as a wide receiver. Which what do you think about
those room? Juwan Jennings is unhappy with the forty nine
Ers right now. I said, great, let him be unhappy.
There's so many people are just like, oh, the Steelers
are rumored again, and I'm just like, they don't need
a trade for somebody who has They don't need another
highly priced George Picten's type player, so to speak. And

(05:25):
I know some people they don't that's about Jennings. But yeah,
I'm not. I'm not on the Jennings train, so to speak.
So that kind of I think other than that, and
you've got long snapper. They signed the gentleman from New England.
You'll at least being in campbell Christian Kotz, who's been
with the Steelers for a few seasons now. So I
think that pretty much wraps up the special teams because

(05:46):
a lot of guys we're talking about how defense are
going to be playing special teams. There's a few offensive players,
but not a plethora of them. Kind of like Connor
Hayward or somebody like that, should he make the team,
they'll have to really apply his craft there. So at
leads just to the elephant in the room. What do
you think about the big the TJ.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Watt?

Speaker 2 (06:07):
You think it's just trade rumors noise? Do you think
the agent, you think the team somebody put it out
there that you know, we could send you pack in
or sniff around pack in or you think the like
who puts that stuff out there necessarily? I don't know that.
The Steelers. I think me and you kind of are
on this agreement that they will probably get a deal

(06:27):
done with what here as the team reports next week,
it's going to be somewhere within the first week or
two of camp, and there should be some news as
to him inching a new deal, and we've heard that's
could be a lot of money. And is it worth
it for a player who's thirty years old? I know
those are some of the questions getting kicked around.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Well, I mean, there's so many things that are going
to go into it. It depends on the length of
the deal, it depends on the numbers.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
You know.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
Obviously, if everything is circumspect right, we only know what
is being reported across any spectrum. We actually have no
idea who's saying what, where the words are coming from,
what the opinion of any of the parties involved, really
and truly is. You know, I am sure TJ wants

(07:17):
to get the title of highest paid.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Non quarterback back. I'm sure he does.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
But at the same time, I think he's also realistic
enough to know his production over the last two years
hasn't been what it was when he was a perennially
defensive Player of the Year candidate. Not that he's still
not that, but I mean eleven and a half sacks
last year when he's hurt, he's just not the same guy.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
We've gone through it.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
There have been injury concerns that have cropped up and
he's aging. So do you pay that guy over forty
million dollars a year? You certainly don't do it for
four years. Not at this point. You're not going to
try and keep him under contractill until he's thirty five.
At this point, you've got to assume that the everything

(08:04):
we ever have seen from players who get hurt is
that they continue to get hurt as they age. Right,
And so if TJ, if his body is starting and
you've got the history with JJ too, I mean his
body started to break down. If the stop body's starting
to break down, he can't do the same things you
know that they were able to do at one point,

(08:26):
then you know, what are you going to do? I
still believe strongly that they will get a deal done,
but I am also keenly aware that if the sides
remain far apart and it is very clear they're not
going to bridge that gap, then this particular version of

(08:48):
the Steelers front office will not hesitate to say, Okay, fine,
doesn't matter who you are, if we're not gonna if
it's not going to work, we'll put you someplace where
it works for you, and and we'll we'll move on.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
Do I think that will happen. No, I don't think
that will happen.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
Well, I acknowledge that it is certainly a possibility. Yeah,
you know it's not it's not inconceivable, you know. Well,
to quote the Princess Brian, there's.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Some sporting news via Yahoo Sports up on the screen
right now contract projection of one hundred and twenty one
million dollars and this comes from a number of sources,
including a gentleman with Bleacher Reports I think was doing
one of these valuations some of the well of these
more contract goours. But the word on the street is

(09:40):
that TJ. Watt wants to be paid be the highest
paid non quarterback in the NFL, which that title is
currently held by Jamar Chase, wide receiver of the Cincinnati Bengals.
As we all know, for better or worse, he's making
forty and a quarter somewhere in the ballpark on average.
This is three years with about eighty some million guaranteed.

(10:03):
Is the projection. The Steelers will have an out to it.
And one thing I don't I agree with you on
the injury and things with players getting old, but we've
seen Steelers that seem to be ageless at certain points,
we see some that haven't sure Cam Hayward. Cam Ayward's
agels he had a really bad groin andury are you
kidding me? He shouldn't be playing the way he was
playing last year. After that, you expect regression and everybody

(10:25):
who's criticizing and we know what this seems like when
they don't have TJ.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Watt.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Everyone's alluding to his brother, who is not the same person.
But it's genetics, you know, it's it's a common link,
So you tend to go down that route, right. I
think some of the I think one of the things
is like five years, five year deal. Is he gonna
be like James Harrison and play until he's forty. I mean,

(10:50):
here's another guy that played a lot. But James Harrison
had a little bit of regression in n had a
resurgence later on. I don't necessarily know that you get
you should get rid of a TAJ Watt because you
look at what the Steelers defense is like, and in
the context of this show, if we're talking about being
an elite defense, this is not an elite defense. When TJ.
Watt isn't one hundred percent. That's some of the concern

(11:12):
about giving him a long term deal. That's some of
the concern about if there's going to be any injuries.
There was the talk about his playoff stats last year
and during the losey streak and him play basically playing
with an injured foot, and he was still out there.
But I pose you the question of this, what is
more fearsome or it's more of like a true false

(11:33):
maybe Brian, it's like, okay, true or false? Do the
Steelers win or lose? The Steelers win more games, win TJ.
Watt's on the field. True, The Steelers defense is not
the same when TJ. Watt is not on the field,
when he's sidelined. Also true, even with they hurt TJ Watt,
do defensive coordinators still have to game plan for TJ Watt? Yes,

(11:54):
they do. That still helps or benefits. And Alex Heismith,
now I know you're like, go, well, Watt's hurt, maybe
you could do this or that. But the point is is,
when Watt's not out there, or Watts subpartig at least
decoyem do you really have enough of a you have
enough to go buy from Nick Herbig to replace TJ.

(12:16):
Watt outright as a full time starter. I don't know,
and Herbig's been getting dinged. Alex Heismith's beginning ding Alex
Heismith only had six sacs last year. You know, I
love Alex Highsmith. His dad's more likely to listen to
this than Chris Boswell, so we don't have to worry
about that. Knock on wood. But you know, his dad's
cool character too. But Alex has got a pretty big contract.

(12:38):
And when you're looking at the edge rushers that you
have in the future, you probably extend TJ. Maybe it's
three years, and if high Smith Alex Highsmith doesn't have
the production that he needs to have this season, you're
probably looking at extending Nick Herbig next and moving on
from high Smith, and you're probably gonna get about the
same thing in value. Everybody thinks you're just going to

(12:58):
get a first round pick for tj W. I don't
know necessarily the case. In a trade, you'd be lucky
to get a third Yeah, are you giving up? You're
not bargaining from a position of strength, right, everybody knows
the reason you're doing it.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
You're not, you know it isn't You're just not in
a position of being able to make demands. If you
try to move TJ right now, you have to move
him to somebody who's willing to honor the contract demands
that he clearly wants. So they're going to have to,
you know, fess up a chunk of change for TJ

(13:31):
to make him happy, and in so doing taking on
that obligation. You're not getting first round picks, you're not
getting multiple picks.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
You.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
I think you're lucky if you got a second round pick.
I think you've done well in the market as it stands.
But I don't think you would. I think the best
you could hope for is a third round pick, and
that's not value for a guy who's a future Hall
of Famer at this point. That's why, like you know, yes,
there's tons of speculation, and there is. Every time one

(14:03):
of these guys has a contract negotiation that takes longer
than we want it to take, is always, well he's
going to get traded. Then well they're so far apart,
and then like two days later they.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Signed a deal.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
Right, And I strongly believe that the Steelers still would
like TJ to be a one hat guy, a one
Jersey guy, to finish his career here in Pittsburgh. But
I do acknowledge, as I've said, that this is not
the same Steelers franchise and the same Steelers management group

(14:37):
that we're used to dealing with, and if they can't
get it to work, they'll move on.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
I think that's part of the reason why the trade
stuff is such a hot rumor is because of what
just happened with Mika Fitzpatrick. Nobody saw that coming. Nobody
saw that coming. He was a seventeen game starter, the
same way now what they play all seventeen games. It
seemed like he was a little limited. But we've said
the same thing about Miles Garrett before, and Miles Garrett

(15:04):
was a guy that was you know, I'm never playing
for the Browns again. You're going to trade me in.
Then about three weeks later that tune changed when it
was about forty million a year, And I think that
could be in the same territory of the cat and
mouse stuff that's going on too. It's not only looking
at Miles Garrett and his contract and the bragging rights
that go with being this, you know, highly paid player.

(15:24):
Look at what's going on in Cincinnati right now with
Trey Hendrickson as well and Trey Hendrickson is certainly not
making anywhere near the same stratosphere as money at this point,
he has more of a legitimate gripe. All TJ. Wants
now is a little more reassurance and kicked this contract out.
He's already getting paid, he already had. The Steelers broke
so many rules with guaranteed money and bonuses and everything

(15:46):
they did with TJ's initial contract. That's the type of
that's the type of player TJ. Watt is. That's the
reason why he's an exception to the rule for anything
and everything. I had somebody trying to tell me, well,
you know, they drafted Jack Sawyer too, so they can
just get a first round pick for TJ. Watt and
be said done and it will just be Steelers defense

(16:06):
still elite. No, there's some real concerns there. You know,
you're hopeing Jalen Ramsey is still due. There's no reason
to think he shouldn't be. You hope Darius Slay didn't
take a step back. You hope Joey Porter is still
as sending. You need those pass rushers to put a
pass rush on that quarterback. They need to be disruptive
and help that secondary. You don't go out and get
all these secondary guys and then start getting and get

(16:27):
rid of TJ's just more than just a pass rusher, too,
is so disruptive with the forced fumbles that he's had
over the years. I mean last year, he's a second
team All Pro. He's fourth in the voting for Defensive
Player of the Year because he forced six fumbles. Like
nobody else is doing the type of stuff that he does.
He drops in the coverage and he gets an interception,

(16:48):
for God's sake, So you need the splash plays. And
if anything, he's still making the splash plays. That's where
I get concerned about some of the other guys. But
I mean, Alex Heisman is still a very high level player.
I think the future is very bright for Nick Herbig
as well. We don't know who Jack Sawyer is. He
hasn't played one down of football just yet. And I

(17:09):
was trying to find herbig stats because I was like,
you know, we get into this with different positions and
usually give quarterbacks more leeway. They need more more time,
you know, to marinate, to develop or whatever. But it's
no different for any other players with any other positions, right,
So let me see Nick Herbig here is gonna pull

(17:32):
it up. So he has the five starts. There were
some injuries last year, so he's appeared in thirty games,
thirteen of them last year. The first year he was
seventeen games. These snap counts, though, let me take a
look at we'll go back to twenty twenty three, where
he didn't maybe have as much playing time. I mean,
he's had some really stellar games and defensively just sixteen

(17:56):
point nine percent of all the Steelers defensive snaps in
the previous season. And now if we bump out to
last year, of course he's gonna have a little bit
of an uptick because of the injuries, particularly high Smith
missed a couple of games. Herbick was inactive for four
last year, but he played almost about fifty percent. He
was at forty nine point six, so he was utilized

(18:17):
a lot more, maybe more of a rotation guy. That's
why I feel this is a pretty good group with
the outside linebackers. But outside of that, you got the
rookie Sawyer. I don't know where he really when he
comes to camp and we're talking about camp preview, Jeremiah
Moon's probably going to be playing second team over Jack
Sawyer to start after that. I don't have a whole

(18:38):
lot of hopeful for guys to make the team. Moon's
probably like a guy that's on the bubble to begin
with Julius Welshoff. That dude was a dude last year.
What was he like six eighths like two fifty something
or whatever, But he didn't make it. He got put
on injured reserve. He's the Steelers international player, so he

(18:59):
got to just deserve last year. If he got to observe,
they probably maybe send him home. A lot of guys
with IR don't travel with the team as we know, so,
but Welshoff gets another chance. He impressed it off and
he had a pretty decent preseason. You never know he's
he's he's like a Frankenstein's monster for linebacker size. So
but that's about it. There's not a whole lot in

(19:21):
the in the kofhers here as far as uh there's
Eku Liota, a street free agent, so there's you know,
they're gonna keep fifty three. Almost half of these guys
are gonna be gone. Maybe a few of them stick
with the practice squad. But that's right, that's a lot
about the edge rushers. I'm not I'm not really concerned
about a whole lot of depth all the way across
the board with the Steelers, but sticking maybe with our

(19:42):
front seven, one of your favorite guys, Cam Hayward, ageless wonder,
come into camp again. No reason to believe that he's
just still not just going to go out there and
perform at a high level.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
There isn't a reason to believe that based on the
way he played last year. You know, it is at
some point age will catch up to Captain Cam. But
let's just hope it's not this year. That's the bottom line,
you know, with the underlying question of will the Pittsburgh
Steelers defense be elite in twenty twenty five? Look, I mean,

(20:17):
they have the players to be an elite defense, but
there are there's so many catches and caveats and ifs
that go along with it.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
They are they are, this is this is maybe.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
The most fifty to fifty could be elite, could be crap. Like,
you know, if all things go wrong, they're gonna be
porous and awful and and they're gonna get blown out
of games and it's gonna be a terrible season. That's
if all things go wrong. You know, that's unlikely.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
It's very hard to believe with some of the marquee
names that they've got, it's.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Unlikely that everything goes to pie.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
But you know, even if everything goes right, you know,
they they may they still have a question around safety.
Right to me, that's the biggest question that remains after
Mica leaving, The biggest question remains is around who's playing
safety to take his spot right? How they fill that

(21:21):
gap and whether you think that it's a little more
easy to fill over the last couple of seasons because
Mica has n't making Minca type plays, He hasn't been
doing a lot of splash. The interceptions haven't come or not.
Somebody still has to fill that role and fill it
well enough. I'm not as worried about the corners, but
again caveats. Is Jalen Ramsey going to drop a step?

(21:43):
Is Slag going to drop a step? Is this the
year that they're going to start to go over the
edge because old man age has caught up with them.
Is Joey going to continue to descend? Is he going
to be more handsy than he was last year? Is
he gonna be less handsy? Is he going to learn
and grow. You know. The defensive backfield is the area
that I still probably have the most concern with The

(22:04):
inside linebackers, I'm not really worried about at all.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
And then you know, to come back to the defensive line.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
Look, you've got Black, You've got Keanu, You've got Cam,
You've got Derek Harmon. So you've got a core there
that You've got a lot of young guys who could
make mistakes. You've got Cam to help rein them in
and keep them focused. But you don't have the same

(22:33):
kind of veteran depth that you had in years past. Right,
they're starting anew and building that next group. But I
think it's an extremely talented group. So I'm real happy
with that. I think the guys that they have to
play defensive line, I think we're in good shape.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, I'm excited about it. I'm excited about seeing Derek Harmon.
You think he is a week one starter. I think
he's pretty close. I think if he comes out in
traditional base three four he starts, I think maybe Betton
is going to be nose tackle and then you put Harmon,
although I could be surprised, but Harmon I think is
a little lighter, or maybe appears to be a little
lighter like Betton looks like he's got the junk in

(23:13):
the trunk type of body, stocky body build of like
a j. Von Hargrave is what he reminds me of.
But so does Y. A black that'll be. I'm curious
to see how he performs. I say, a Loudermilk. You
still have Logan Lee, who's you know, pretty much he
missed the year. You have a lot of guys that
missed time around across this roster, all the way around

(23:36):
to Marvin le Al is somebody who's kind of fallen
from grace. He expected more from him as a third
round pick. I believe Dean Lowry he's still You got
like somebody like Lowry still sticking around. Yeah, he's still
on the roster. I'm like looking at it, it's like, well,
let's see who's all on the defensive line. It's like
number ninety one, Logan Lee, ninety two, louder Milk, Mark
Robinson's floating around here in ninety three, and then he

(23:57):
got Lowery, Betton, Daniel Quala, Hayward, de Marvin Leile, Derek Harmon.
They take up like all those numbers in the late nineties,
so it's really easy to find them on the roster.
It's that's pretty slick. But I like, I like the
potential of the depth that's here. And like you said,
there's not the veterans, but over the last few seasons,

(24:18):
some of the veterans that they've had, even you know,
you go a little deeper with like a Armani Watts
or a Montrevius Adams or like, they've tried to scrape
the barrel in different ways and now they've it's more
of a youth movement absolutely that they've other than Hayward obviously,
but he has his own kind of fountain of youth.
So I like where they're at with the defensive line.

(24:40):
It does have potential. Does that potentially be any worse
than they could have been or it has been, or
the way we saw it during the losing streaks, I don't.
I don't think so. I don't think so. I think
it's built to face you know, Derrick Henry for example.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
I do think.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
I think the defensive line is the one area that
I think the potential for drop off is the small right,
even even if this is the year where Cam's performance
started to dip. I think you have enough depth to
recover from that with with Harmon, with Keanu Benton, with
Black and the other guys that you have.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
I think it's the youth movement.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
Yet they're gonna make mistakes, There's gonna be you know,
issues that they'll grow and they'll be better by the
end of the year than they are at the beginning
of the year. But it's an area where I feel
comfortable now. Maybe not so much like I said, you know,
in years past, I was I was always a little
worried because I just didn't think we were getting the

(25:42):
production out of the defensive line. It felt like, you know,
Larry oh was not really giving us what we needed
out of him in that position. There weren't just just
didn't seem the same. I think there's a potential for
an uplift on the defensive line.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah hoo could joby. It was kind of disappointing at
times for me. I was really excited, especially you know,
post stuff on to it retirement. I mean, they really
had it going when to it was and right out
the gate, you know what I mean, right out of
football he was I saw on fire, double digit sacks,
if not that last year or next to last year,

(26:21):
there was some real highlight reel type stuff. And he
was a young guy that we'd be talking about, probably
approaching his thirties right now, as opposed to maybe not
even a Derek Harmon draft pick. You would still just
have to it and Hayward and who knows what that
might look like. So unfortunate. Excuse me, linebackers. You started
to get into the inside linebackers, but not entirely Patrick Queen,

(26:43):
highly prized free agent pickup last season. We'll see if
there's we'll see what the communication issues could have been too,
where it was a lot of that. If you remember
last year, we were speculating was it Cam Sutton, was
it Minka the guys that weren't talking or weren't saying anything,
or weren't pointing fingers, and Mika was one of the
quiet ones. And maybe that's the reason he's shipped out
of town. You don't see something back either, So we'll

(27:06):
see what Patrick Queen can do as a leader in
this locker room. He's got some dudes next to him,
Peyton Wilson still learning growing just a machine minus acl
or whatever he's missing his knee, Cole Holcomb taking the
reduced contract to coming back. I mean, that's that's huge.
How many times has this team been burned where they're
missing inside linebackers for a few games or an entirety

(27:30):
of a season. Malie Harrison comes into this, I don't
I don't know that I have the highest thoughts of
him actually seeing a lot of time on the field.
Carson Brunner, Mark Robinson, and you know, there's a couple
of other names that you know, they're definitely we're trailing
off from there. But Bruner you know, is a seventh
round pick. He's got to do something to make him

(27:51):
you know, he's get.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
His money on special teams to start.

Speaker 4 (27:55):
Yeah, especially he's going to contribute on special teams if
if he makes the team at the level, that's where
he's going to do.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
What do we think of those Marker Mark Robinson experiment
or we done?

Speaker 4 (28:05):
You know, I think I think that they've seen what
they can get out of Mark Robinson, and I don't
think they've seen what they hoped. I think it'll be
a struggle for Mark Robinson to make the team this year.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
To be honest with you, we'll see I'd actually think
the same with like even though Malie Harrison was signed,
brought over from Baltimore, He's a guy that's been the journeyman,
traveled around and obviously somebody we thought it would have
had a high pedigree, somebody the Steelers scouted during the
draft process and just hasn't really found his niche in
the NFL. Never know, it could be one of these

(28:39):
guys they bring to training camp. It's just not a fit.
And that's kind of okay. We're talking about the fourth
linebacker or fourth inside linebacker.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
I was talking about.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
I was thinking about fits too, going a little bit
like deeper into the secondary, since we've already talked a
lot about Jalen Ramsey joining this team, maybe playing some
different playing all over the field, maybe probably playing nickel,
maybe playing a little bit of safety, looks right, dimebacker,
Darius Slay, Joey Porter. But what's this speak of to

(29:08):
the depth? Is it a good or a bad thing
to have a James Pierre, a Corey Trice, Brandon Eccles
is more of a journeyman, kind of veteran guy that
comes over previously from the New York Jets. I mean,
I'm not so worried. If there's this one guy kind
of down and Ramsey has to slide over slash slide over,
Porter's out, and you got those two guys on the outside,

(29:31):
maybe you've got Beanie Bishop in there too. I forgot
to mention I actually think there is more of a
role for Beanie Bishop. I thought he showed some flash,
but remember he's an on dripped the thing with Mike
Tomlin and rookies and young players. You've got to gain
his trust. You know, We've talked about how just a
couple of plays could destroy an entire you could lose
you an entire game. It is a team sport, but

(29:51):
everyone has to be in sync. So one guy that's
out of sinc the whole machine is just, you know,
out of sync. And I'm not sure that Corey Trice
is ever going to ascend to be one of those guys.
And James Pierre being there, that's never really been one
of those guys, but he's more somebody could bring in
that you don't that you could plug in the special
teams and you could rely on him for that. He

(30:13):
knows his role with that already, so I think he's
kind of safer there on the depth or at least
somebody that isn't going to get picked up off of
waivers if he were to get cut. You mentioned the safeties,
one thorn Hill immediately becomes the guy that's on paper starting.
You know, they're just ballplayers. Maybe maybe they're not defined
as really a strong safety or free safety. Since they

(30:35):
both played both and this is Sean Elliott fantastic year
and gets an extension with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Is that
because his running mate was Minka Though we've talked about
this before. When you don't have the right pairing, both
of those guys tend to fail instead of, you know,
both succeed. So safety does worry me. You still have
a special team stand out with Miles Killbrew that you know,

(30:59):
I don't worry about him too much, but when he
comes on the field, it's like, Hey, I don't know,
like I kind of sweat just a little bit. But
when he's out there for special teams, he's like a
special team's goat, you know what I mean. So that's
really the guy I know. Tina Rivers, our editor here,
she likes Sebastian Castro out of Iowa, an undrafted guy.

(31:25):
Maybe he showed it enough during rookie camp that gave
them enough confidence to say he could at least be
a depth dude. When you went that deep into Buffalo
with like a Trenton Thompson and some of those guys
or Patrick Peterson trying to play some safety, it wasn't pretty.
Then again, it was a lot of the run game
that failed there too, So yes, yeah, but and Dante
can't seventh round pick, I should throw him in there

(31:46):
as a corner.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Also, Yeah, like I.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
Do think I think you've got one young guy in
the secondary in Joey Deshaun Elliott I think is a
good pick up. What's his age?

Speaker 3 (32:03):
Eight?

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Who's that? Shawn Elliott is twenty eight? Maybe I'll verify
that in a second. He's somewhere. Yeah, of course they
give me is but yeah, twenty eight ninety seven.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
That's like all right, So you know, here's a guy
that not on the younger side, but not on the
older side. He's in the peak years of his career,
which is fine. But what I'm I guess what I'm
getting at is you've got a lot of guys who
are on the back end of their career that maybe
they've got a couple more years a year left in him.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Maybe they don't. So that's where I said, I'm nervous.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
The defensive backfield makes me a little nervous, and we'll
have to see how it plays out. I don't think
you know, you talk about Pierre, here's the way I
look at him. Right, you know you're going to get
one good play for every two dumb plays. Right, He's

(33:04):
not going to be consistently bad, but he's also not
going to be consistently good, and he's probably going to
be more mediocre than he is good. He'll make a play,
don't get me wrong. He'll make a play every now
and then. He'll also screw up a play more than
he makes them.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
So you know, do I think that's a I don't know.
And the other guys I just don't know. I don't
know yet.

Speaker 4 (33:27):
You know, Beanie, Beanie, I think can fit in the
same role he fit in last year. I don't see
him sliding outside. I see him, you know, being in
that same Nickel type situation. It's really going to just
be you know, how does one thorn Hill play? How

(33:47):
did the safeties pan out? Can it all work in
the same way it was working or better. You know
this team has over the past few seasons is team
has always been predicated on turning the ball over. So
you know this defense works the best when they get
their hands on the ball and they turn the ball over.
If they do not do that, I think they're a

(34:11):
little better than they were last season as.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Far as being able to hold up. But if they
can't get.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Turnovers, it's always going to be more of a difficult
season for them.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
We'll have to wait and see.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
I think I see Beanie as like in the dime packages.
I mean, they don't go really much heavier with than
sixty be's usually. And then that leads me to the
who do you want to see more from this year?
And I'm throwing it right over to Patrick Queen as
the guy I want to see more from this season.

(34:47):
He landed a big contract. The Steelers really went out
to get the big fish in the ocean. He's supposed
to be the leader on the defense, he's supposed to
be the one communicating. He came over from enemy territory.
We want to see James Ferrier. We want to see
Larry Foot, we want to see Lawrence Timmons. We want
to see Ryan Cheese here, that's what we want to
see out of Patrick Queen. I don't think we saw enough.

(35:08):
We saw some glimpses here or there. I don't know
that he always I don't know if he felt I'm
not going to say he looked lost or anything, because
I'm not going to say he was the reason that
they lost games. He wasn't like that completely out of whack.
There were a lot of different things going on on
this defense. But he's my pick for who do I
want to see more out of in the twenty twenty

(35:29):
five Steelers defense. How about you, Brian?

Speaker 3 (35:32):
That's a I mean, that's a good pick.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
I will tell you, depending on how this all rolls out,
I'll tell you who I want to see more out of.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
And it's TJ. It's just TJ.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
I don't want another so Muigh. And the reason is
that is he has he has performed at such a
high level. Eleven and a half sacks in most for
most people, you're like, WHOA, that's good, great, nice season.
Eleven have sacks. It's not good enough. It's not good enough.
I need TJ to be the game wrecord that he
that he has been, And so I want to see.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Here's what I really want to see when it matters.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
I want to see TJ put, you know, making a
difference in a game, right, not early in the season,
but in the late in the season when the games
are on the line. I want TJ making plays that
make a difference in how the game turns out.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
That's what I want to see.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Because that's what I expect from him, and I'm just
telling you we haven't seen that in the last couple
of seasons.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
And it's very odd because, you know, just two sacks,
both against the Eagles in that loss, but over the
last five games going through Cleveland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Kansas City,
and Cincinnati in the regular season, the other four games
no sacks. But then again, Steelers won put up thirty
something points on offense against the Raiders and the Jets

(36:59):
with TJ getting to the quarterback too. Statistical anomalies, right,
So but I wouldn't say that you're necessarily wrong if
I had any second picks Alex Heigsmith, maybe Joey Porter.
But does that mean yeah, yeah, is the defense is?
Will the defense be a top five defense, top three
defense in the NFL? Top five? I think i'd be

(37:20):
very confident in saying top five, top three. Let's wait
and see how this old gels and works together, because
I mean last season September, they were only gave up
like twelve points or something through three games, Like you know,
out of the little Facisus there was like twenty six
through the first three. Actually they'd only give it up ten,
six and ten. So but yeah, they're like beyond delete.

(37:43):
They were stifling. And you look at some teams that
did have stellar defenses, like the New York Jets, and
then the rest of it wasn't very complimentary, particularly special teams.
So I think that can help aid the Steelers. You
get a little more offense, maybe they don't have all
these three and outs. So, Brian, any closing thoughts, my friend,
We're we're very We're that close to seeing mister Rogers

(38:07):
trot out there on the field, but you get to
see him throw the DK metcalf maybe.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
So I'm just telling you, I'm still I'm really struggling
with this. Yeah, I'm really really struggling with the Aaron
Rodgers thing. I'll be on I'm trying to work it out.
I'll be on board by the time we get through
training camp. I'll be on board when we're season. I'm

(38:33):
just struggling with it. I don't want to be I
don't want to be one of those fans that he's
gonna like. The minute he starts to screw up, I'm
gonna turn on him. No, but he's the kind of
guy I might do it well.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
And I really tried, in fairness not to do that
with Trubisky, but I had a very like I was
very honed in on this was not going to be
the answer, and I wanted to come mitchis.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
He didn't have any elevation to him to begin with.
He didn't expect jack out of Mitch Tribisky. You'd be
surprised to people. But I'm just telling you if if
this gets ugly early in the season, I'm gonna be
going put Will Howard in.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Hey, I don't know that he's sniffing the field right away.
I'd love to see Mason with He.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Should not be people breathing sniffing the field right away. Yeah,
but I'm just telling you, if it's bad, right.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
If we let's say we get blown out in the
first four games, every game, right, we can't score more
than ten points a game by game five, I'm gonna
be like, I'm done with it.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Let's put put Will Howard and see what.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
He's got got the I guess the the new dog. Yes, yeah,
hanging out there being real quiet. She's a good girl
up there. Can't can't get her on camera.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
I can't quite get her. She's a little too small. FI.
You might get her there. You get the little tail
running around.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Little uh, little bonus content. But Brian, thanks for joining us,
my friend. We were just about to close out. You
almost made it without any just just the one pop
can or the one sparkling one. I'm sorry. I didn't
want to insault out the pop so drink that crap
depends what it is, man. I could do some of
the zero sugars, but you know you weren't on the
last show. But I had asked folks about, you know,

(40:15):
flavor coffee. What's your go to coffee? A lot of
good comments, so keep them coming. Well, maybe maybe we
could do it with the pop or your favorite can
beverage and on alcoholic can beverage. We'll put it that way.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
And that that's inclusive.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
That's inclusive of your sparkling water.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
So yes, I can be involved in that conversation.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Well, folks, that'll do it for us for this show.
We'll come back maybe next week, maybe solo, maybe with Brian.
I know he's got some vacation plans coming up, but
we're gonna do our other half of the training camp
preview with the Pittsburgh Steelers offense because we just got
tired of talking about Aaron Rodgers even though we still
even though he still came up. So stay tuned for

(40:55):
that next week. Don't forget the like, comment and subscribe.
Thank you for watching or listening wherever you may be.
Those of you watching h and you might be on Spotify,
check out our other playlist for the video version of
our podcast next day. Until then, my name is Joe,
I'm pointing around. That's Brian, and what's the dog's name?

(41:16):
That's Violent viol And as always, as we close out
this show, we encourage everyone out there to be safe,
be good, and we'll catch you late.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
We would like to thank you for listening and remind
our listeners to follow us on social media and our
website www dot steel City Underground dot com

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