May 25, 2023 • 46 mins
Ruben Navarette is a nationally syndicated columnist out of San Diego whose thesis is: America needs more immigrants, not fewer. And he doesn’t much like the Biden administration’s handling of immigration more than what the Republicans are suggesting. Ruben joined us on a special edition of the Cardle & Woolley Show from Talk 1370. This program was recorded on May 18, 2023 in Austin.
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(00:00):
Welcome to Planet Logic. Today's episodeDon't Fear the end of title forty two.
Ruben Navarette is a nationally syndicated columnistout of San Diego whose thesis is
American needs more immigrants, not fewer, and he doesn't much like the Biden
administration's handling of immigration more than whatthe Republicans are suggesting. Ruben joined us
(00:21):
on a special edition of The Cardeland Wooly Show with me e Lynn Woolly
and my partner Jim Cardele from Talkthirteen seventy. This program was recorded on
May eighteen, twenty twenty three,in Austin. It's Carlin Woolly on Talk
thirteen seventy. Welcome to the program. Glad to have you along. We're
going to do a deep dive nowwith Ruben Navarette. Ruben Navarette Junior,
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to be exactly correct with the WashingtonPost Writers Group. I'm Lynn Wooly,
my partner is Jim car Ruben.Glad to have you with us from Sonny,
San Diego. And you write abouta lot of the same things we
talk about. Sometimes we're going tohave a difference of opinion here, but
it's going to be interesting to seeexactly where you come from on some of
these issues. One of your columnsis entitled, Don't Fear the End of
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Title forty two. America needs morerefugees and migrants, not fewer, but
there's a lot of people coming acrossthe border. Are you happy with the
way this is coming down? Legitivationit back with you again now, you
know, nobody can be happy withthe way this has turned out. Certainly
the mismanagement by the Biden administration,the fact that it saw this storm coming
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Wayne Advanced didn't do anything about it. Those are all things that are legitimate
criticisms of administration. But what I'msaying in this piece is that if you
don't have in the United States atradition and to maintain a tradition of welcoming
refugees at least giving them a shotat making a legitimate asylum claim, then
really, what's the purpose of America. One of our proudest traditions isn't just
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the stuff you hear on talk radio, you know, liberty and freedom.
It's also the fact that we've traditionallybeen, or tried to be, or
should have been, a safe havenfor people who for people who are fleeing
all sorts of terrible things, atleast have a shot at it, you
know, as I do that typicallywhen you apply for refugee status, you
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only have a one in four chanceof ever getting accepted and having it approved.
But what Biden wants to do,and Trump before him, is basically
take away even that one and fourchance. Well, but the thing I
think that people object to so much, and I'll get your thoughts on this,
and that Jim will jump in herein the second it's it's not that
America is not a welcoming country.It's not that we were not originally a
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nation of immigrants. I would arguethat that we're mostly native born now,
but it's the vast numbers that seemto come across the border and that seemed
to have no control. I mean, we're a country here, but we
don't have control of our own border. Can't we designate the number of people
that we can take in and expectmaybe some other countries that around the world
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world to help out with some ofthese refugees. So I'm going to start
with the first part of your question. I just reject wholeheartedly this idea of
this myth that we are a welcomingcountry to immigrants and refugees. That's just
what they say in the brochure.It's not true, it's just the way
we advertise it to the world.And I'll give you some really quick examples.
If you go all the way backto the beginnings of the country,
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to the seventeen hundreds, you seeBenjamin Franklin, or one of our founding
fathers and one of the nation's firstbigots, who railed against German Americans and
had all these terrible things about howGermans wouldn't assimilate, that we're going to
germanize us before we could americanize them, and all this nativism that. Then
you fast forward, you have theChinese Exclusion Act, you have prejudice against
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the Irish, you have the nineteentwenty four Immigration Act, which keeps out
the Italians, the Greeks, andfamously, in our one true opportunity to
do the right thing and be ashining example, in the nineteen forties,
thirties and forties, we close thedoor to Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany.
We don't start leting in Jews untilthank you forty five, when Harry Truman
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signs an executive where to do that? Thanks a lot, Thanks for nothing,
Harry, right, nineteen forty five, the war's over after six million
people have been killed. So thisbs that somehow we love immigrants. Has
all that come legally? We're anation of immigrants, Lynn and Jim.
We have never in the history ofthis country ever welcomed immigrants or refuges.
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The national motto is not your plurables, Unham, it's there goes the neighborhood,
let's keep them out. I likethat for a bit of a chuckle
on a serious issue, there goesthe neighborhood. But Reuben, let me
maybe take a step back, becauseit always occurs to me having been involved
in politics like yourself now for thirtyodd years, and we remember when Ronald
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Reagan back in the eighties had oneof the last, if not the last,
significant quote unquote immigration reform bill.The government, as US conservatives typically
say, is not the way,not the entity to be using to efficiently
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facilitate certain things when it comes toinfluencing society and improving society. We do
have a legal immigration system in thiscountry. The problem is it's clearly not
working. We all get caught upin the symptoms, which is either title
forty two lately or Governor Abbot herein the last day calling on other governors
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to help secure the border. Wedo have people wanting to get into the
country because Biden's sent the messaging.But the bottom line to me comes down
that our immigration system just as flatbroke. You can't blame people for trying
to improve their lives and get tothe shining city on the hill. But
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the bottom line is our government systemof immigration assimilation is broken. Correct,
It's broken. It's broken for alot of different reasons. It's not just
that we have a bad cast ofcharacters. Man, if we could just
elect better people, we say,the Congress to the White House, this
whole thing we get fixed. True, it's not true. It is not
true that this is a personnel issue. This is something that's in the bones
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of the place. Again, thehypocrisy, the dishonesty. We have Republican
lawmakers and Democratic as well, whogo back and lie to their constituent.
Yeah, just very quickly, Republicansgo forward. I was on a radio
show once in Seattle, and Iheard the conservative radio hosts talk about how
he had been told by conservative theconservative congressman of this area that they were
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going to get tough on illegal immigrations. You know, vote for me,
send a check, and come tofind out. I knew about this congressman.
He had a very lenient record onceelected. Right. And the flip
side is true for Democrats who sayI love that I'm compassionate toward immigrants,
people like Barack Obama, you know, and then we elect him and he
supports three million people. Right.So it's the system's broken, Land,
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not because again of personnel, don'tit's broken because you have a lot of
dishonesty hypocrisy in it. You havethis convenient sense that we can't make up
our minds on the border. Wehave two signs up, help wanted because
we need the workers, keep outyour trespassing. There's lots of contradictions of
the immigration debate and lots of dishonesty, and that's certainly one of the things
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that the worse against that we're gettinginto solutions. But I'm fascinated as well
by the fact that you call yourselfa conservative land because if today I were
talking to a liberal radio host,I would just have some fun with it
and I would say, Okay,what kind of liberal are you? Are
you a liberal who's pro immigrant peoplehave a right to come to this country
and roll their dice to see whatthey can get in, and if they
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can't get in, we'll send youback. Or are you a supporter of
Joe Biden? Are you a JoeBiden liberal? Because if you're a Joe
Biden liberals, you've got to supportwith the administrations doing on the border now,
which is to adopt a lot ofTrump policies and keep out a bunch
of folks and don't even let themapply. So liberal, mister liberal radio
talk show hosts, Today is theday you choose? Which one are you?
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So when I hear when I hearyou say conservative, I say,
this is cool, Lynn. Whatkind of conservative are you? Are you
a conservative in the Milton Friedman,William F. Buckley, Ronald Reagan mode
of not believing in tariffs as away of controlling trade. Or are you
a Donald Trump? Yeah, weneed tariffs on aluminum and steel kind of
conservatives? Which one are you?Oh? Well, I mean that gets
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off into a lot of other subjects, but you know sure, I thought
that some of the things Trump didVisa v. China was okay. On
trade. I mean, after all, these they're the biggest intellectual property theeves
on the face of the planet,and they take advantage of us. I
don't know, I sometimes you wantto get into that. I mean,
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we can do it. I lookat at a trade deposit es Saxially.
We have slave labor in China buildingour products over here. A lot of
kids have to work in factories overthere, and you and I think Trump
took that on a little bit,so I kind of admired him for it.
Lenn, Let's do it this way. Let's take a look just staying
Apple's taples on immigrations, Let's justthis way. In the nineteen eighties,
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there was a show called Crossfire ontelevision just started, Yeah, and one
of the one of the original conservativecommentators on that show was Tap Buchanon.
We all know and Pap Buchanon atthe time was in an argument with Tom
Braden, who was the liberal andit was over Irka, the aforementioned bill
you've talked about, the immigration reformand control like a nineteen ey sixth bill
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that Reagan finded the law the Simpsonwas onlie bill and that it's famous at
that the interaction on that day wasTom Braden carrying water for organized labor and
union saying we got to keep theseimmigrants out. They're undermining US workers,
and Pap Buchanon saying, no,we got to let these people in because
it's not the job of the governmentto carry water for the labor unions.
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We ought to have free competition,we ought to have people coming in.
We need the workers. And thatwas Pap you can in the eighties.
And the funny thing is you flippedthe script now so many years later and
the parties have changed positions. Right, So it's so, what kind of
conservative are you? Are you aconservative like a Reagan, a Buckley,
a Freedman, traditional economic conservative thatsays that immigration is really what drives the
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country. People are coming here.I'm a heck. In many cases they're
going to come here and vote Republican. Be they Cubans coming from from Cuba,
Cuban Americans, be the mong refugeeswho came here in A very conservative
who lived in now in Fresno,in Minneapolis, Saint Paul, these are
future Republican voters. Right. They'refleeing tyranny, they're fleeing oppression and they're
going to come become Republican voters.So are they type Are you a Reagan
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type conservative because you signed the bill, you know, Irka, Or are
you a Trump type conservative? Youthink that a lot of these folks are
murders and drug dealers. Well,I don't know. I don't know that
I'm either. Look, I livein Austin, Texas. One of our
major thoroughfares through downtown Austin is aCaesar Chavez. Our terminal at our airport
is the Barbara Barbara Jordan Terminal.Neither one of those liberals believed in unlimited
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immigration, and I'm kind of I'mkind of there. I believe in immigration.
I believe in being able to applyfor asylum in the United States.
What I don't believe in is completelyopen borders, uncontrolled in a world with
terrorists with ISIS and Islamic terrorists thatcome across the border, can come across
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the border with fentonel coming across theborder with eighty thousand children missing and perhaps
sold into slavery, with human traffickingand all the other things that has come
with the Biden policy. And quitefrankly, I'd have to ask you and
turn the tables. What kind ofa politician or political persuasion are you if
you support that right? So myown politics, you know, I've been
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asked before, are usually by screenersbefore they put me on television. They'll
say, what are you a Democrator Republican? A liberal? Conservative?
I said, you know what,I'm what they used to call a journalist
In a time long gone, longago, there was this thing called journalists.
He was not expected to be onthe blue team or the red team.
And I so I'm a real lifejournalist. I'm not. I'm rooting
in the center. I'm not oneither team. I think both parties are
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full of crep. I think theyare all interested in the same things,
which has power to make money,to make more power. I think there's
not a dimesworth of difference between MitchMcConnell and Chuck Schumer and the kind of
DNA that they represent, the kindof people they are, etc. Etc.
So you know that politically, butin terms, so I pick and
choose. I'm I'm someone who likea lot of Mexican Americans, most Mexican
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Americans are registered Democrats, but veryconservative Democrats. Now I'm registered you know
in California, you can register noneof the above or declined to state,
you know, so you get bothsets of ballots and the primary. And
that's where I'm at. But Iagree and I understand that a lot of
Latinos are much more conservative. Andin fact, I heard a story this
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morning on NPR that talked about thegames the Republicans are making with Latinos,
and as you know, they're makinginroads with the Latino vote. That's not
because Republicans are so smart they comeup with these click advertising campaigns. You
know, they'd be pretty dumb abouttheir outreach efforts. It's because these are
conservative voters, raw Reagan famously saidnineteen toy four, Lionelssa from San Antonio
told him, you know, Ican get you the Latino I can get
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Luetinots to vote for you. AndReagan said, you won't have to convince
Latinos to become Republican. They alreadyare Republican, they just don't know it.
And I think that's that's the realthing. I believe that, and
it's one of the reasons I alwaysgo cross ways with a lot of liberal
Democrats. If I were living withyou in Austin. I would spend half
the week getting in fights with thetwo Conservatives that live in Austin, But
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I'd spend the other half of theweek getting in fights with quite liberals who
live in Austin, you know whojust really oftentimes get on my last nerve.
Well, Austin, Austin is aSeattle or a Portland unto itself.
But I do agree with you onething. I constantly criticize the Liberals,
but I constantly, on this radioshow criticize the Conservatives too. I think
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both of the parties are akin toa Thanksgiving Turkey. But on the other
hand, Ruben, you cannot youcannot sit there and say that you are
for the daily fishing of bodies outof the Rio Grand, the constant finding
immigrants locked in an eighteen wheeler anddying inside because they can't get out,
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the constant major traffic jams or wrecksthat we have where immigrants are killed because
they were so many of them packedinto an suv. The eighty thousand children
that are missing right now, theschool, constant school lockdowns, which is
why you VALIDI didn't take the bigones seriously. They get those notices all
the time to lock down the schoolbecause they're on the border. The fentanyl
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that comes across the number of peoplethat have been killed by it, We've
got to have order. My pointis we have to if we just obeyed
our immigration laws that we have now. But I don't think we can take
all the refugees in the world becauseit's most of the people in the world
that would want to come here.Yeah, so I'm not for an open
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border. I've never been for anopen border. Do a Google search.
You'll see that I've done many interviewsdown at the border with border patrol agents
and I basically said, you know, I support the United States has to
have the right to controls its ownsovereignty, the sovereignty of its borders.
But where I differ from most politicians, including Republicans and Democrats a life right,
is I don't go down. See. I was the son. I'm
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the son of a retired cop.My dad was on the job for thirty
seven years. I'm all about lawand order. I don't I get bristlele
when I get lectures about law andorder from people like say, path you
cannon who brags it in the twenties, who got in a fight with cops
who pulled them over, right,because you know nothing says I'm pro cop,
like fighting cops or in the exampleof January six, knock into the
ground and saying, let's kill himwith his own gun. That's real pro
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cop, right pro law enforcement.So so I'm I'm all about law enforcements.
So here's my difference, though.I go down to the border and
I don't come down like a liberaland say this is what you need.
You need this and this and this. I don't go down there like a
conservative and say this is what youneed. You need this, this,
and this. I go down thereand say what do you need? I
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asked them, what do you need? You're the experts, You're the people
on the border. You're the guysof the badges and the guns. I'm
just a journalists from up north inCentral Valley, grew up there and now
he lives in San Diego. Youtell me what you need. That's already
lynn a major difference between me andmost politicians. Yes, because they don't
know anything either. But they're gonnago down there and say you need to
have electronic surveillance, or you needto have a fense. Who need to
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have this, they need to shutup and listen. And that's what I
do. So what do you whatdo we need down there? Do you,
first of all, do you agreethat we need some order that we
can bring a certain number of peoplein, but it cannot be unlimited.
Absolutely, And let's get let's beclear about where we were here. We
were talking before about you know,the refugee policies, and you were talking
about dead people. Let me letme get back to that as well.
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I took a note to come backto that. But when you were talking,
when you were saying about um ofan open border, I'm not for
an open border. We never hadan open border. We were talking about
silent process that's said to even tenyears ago. For every four people who
apply, only one's going to getin, all right, three are going
to go back home, only oneout of four. My beef is not
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that I want an open border.My beef is I'd like to go back
to the way it was one infour. Whereas Trump and Biden both said,
no no hearing, no lawyer,no judge, We're just gonna send
you right back. We're going torequire that you apply from your home country.
They take away even the one infour chances. So it's a bignessnomer
to say that we have an openborder because we have people coming across.
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We've always had people coming across,and we always will because the wage disparity
between the United States and Mexico isten to one, and if you can
make, you know, one hundreddollars a day versus ten dollars a day,
you're gonna go there to feed yourfamily. So because you have that
wage disparity, people cross borders allthe time all over the world. And
my beef with the average Fox Newslistener is they see these people coming across
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the border and they say, oh, my god, open border. They
don't see the fact that you havea border patrol that has let me helicopters
and drones and trucks and truck surveillanceand fencing and badges and guns. And
we've spent sixty billion dollars a yearat the Department Online Security, and I've
been down to the San Diego borderwhere it's all completely militarized and fortified.
And we're going to say that's anopen border. That's not sense, it's
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a lie. Well, it's notworking too well. Well, that's a
different question, right, that's adifferent question. I mean, look,
you can look at Iraq or Iran, look at North Korea. If you
breach their borders, you get shot. Yes, well, let's look at
the let's go back to the questionhere. You said it's not working too.
Well, that's a bit like mesaying there's folks out there, Lynn
who are saying that there's this patientand he's getting no medicine, and I'm
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saying, no, that he isgetting medicine. Look at all this medicine
we're giving him. And then youcome back and say, yeah, well
the medicine's not working. Well,no fairer. Okay, that was a
little hetorical trick there. You Well, my point is people have been flooding
across the border and unrestrained with recordnumbers basically since Joe Biden said welcome,
come on in, and they comein and they're wearing t shirts that say
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thank you Joe Biden. So there'sa there's a reason for this as well
in terms of like Biden getting theblame for this, and this is something
that's not been said, but heneeds to be said more often. Donald
Trump's solutions to the problem as Isaid on an earlier episode of your show,
was to say to pay Homlow ondress Manuel Lopez Overthor to keep these
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Mexican immigrants and mostly not Mexicans,in fact Venezuelan and Salvadoran's Haitians, to
keep them in Mexico and to Juanaand elsewhere. And that was considered quote
the solution. So Biden, whenhe comes in, he has a choice.
He can continue that policy or hecan discontinue it. And he started
to discontinue it with some exceptions.He kept Title forty two. He then
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reinstituted and remain in Mexico policy andadd in the Haitians, which is something
not even Donald Trump did, bythe way. But but he had that
choice. He can keep those Trumppolicies in place where he could remove some
of them, and he did removesome of them, and then the people
came in. I compare this lensto somebody who shakes a bottle of seltzer,
shakes it up really, you know, hard, leaves it. They're
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ready to explode, and then herecomes Lynn walks along, opens the bottle
and it all spills out. Thisis not to absolve President Biden, who
has failed with a big f immigration. It is to say he had an
accomplice. Okay, he had anaccomplice, and an accomplice who sent him
up was Donald Trump. Because Trumpcreated such pressure on the border with all
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those people who were kept out forfour years, with more people coming all
the time, that it's no wonderthat once they said this is not a
policy we can sustain, than itjust exploded. Okay, I'm not leaving
either president off the hook. ButI wasn't just born, you know,
as they said in Texas. Iwas born at night, but not last
night. This is not a sensethat somehow this is all one hundred percent
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Biden's doing. I will go furtherand say one of the reasons that the
Conservatives in this country and the Republicansdeserve so much more blame than they get
in the immigration debate is because theyhave always favorite employers and the US Chamber
of Commerce and the employers. Andremember I come from the Sandwaitheine Valley in
California farm country, and we producein the Sanwatine Valley and central California the
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majority almost all the fruits and vegetablesfor the entire country. And we make
in that industry in that region fiftybillion dollars a year in revenue, fifty
billion for the state of California.You would not have that revenue source if
not for illegal immigrations working the fieldsdoing those jobs of Americans won't do in
central California. And guess what thoseconservative farmers who drive around their tractors,
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they used to listen to Rush,Now they watch Fox News and they say,
we control the border. They're theones hiring these dealu evermen. So
you don't get this followed up inAmerica, it's just one party has gone
a monk. It's both parties whohave contributed to this, and other people
say this as well. You'll hearthis on Ben Shapiro show, and servatives
will say this as well. TheTucker Carlson used to say this as well.
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The conservative are finally coming along tothe fact that you just can't blame
the liberals and call it today.Reuben, let me ask you this.
I really appreciate both what you andLeonard saying about the system essentially being broken
as it exists today. And Reubenyour point, I think what I hear
you saying, and you look athistory in America, there always have been
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bigots. There always are bad apples. It's part of the human condition to
maybe not hate as a learned behavior, but to protect your own or question
others is probably a kind way toput it. But I like your idea
about going down to those on theground and saying, what do you need?
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What can we do to make thingsbetter currently right now? Though it
started with maybe Barack Obama, I'llsay, and Trump did some things,
as you point out, that probablyexacerbated the problem. And then we've got
a clear, flashing neon sign sayingcome, Come, Come to everybody across
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the world. But when you havethe border patrol turned their backs, which
happened a couple weeks ago, theSecretary of Homeland Security, may Orcus,
goes down there and he's so disrespectedright now because of the policies that they're
implementing and the idea or the factthat the Biden administration is not providing what's
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needed right now, what like asylumprocessing judges could be surged down to the
border. There are some real thingsthat could be done, and we first
have to put a staunch on theneon sign flashing across the globe. So
let me tell you about the Neonsign. When Russia invaded Ukraine, a
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lot of Ukrainians fled, God blessthem out of Ukraine. They didn't just
go to Poland. Some made theirway all the way to Tijuana. They
flew, you know, those withmeans we were able to fly out of
Ukraine. They flew to Mexico City. They made their way to Tijuana,
and they're at the US Mexico borderUkrainians. Now, it doesn't make sense
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to me to spend billions of dollarsUkraine and not welcome Ukrainians who are fleeing
Vladimir Putin's invasion. I think thisis had amount to what happened in the
thirties. We should never live downour shame that we turned our back on
people who are fleeing the devil.It should have been a policy of oh,
you're fleeing Hitler, come right in, you go to the front of
the line, and that was notthe case. Yeah. So if we're
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bringing in Ukrainians and they had tomake a special exception to bring in a
hundred thousand Ukrainians, Biden did.The question is did the Ukrainians come to
the pet Ciuana border because there wasa Neon sawing saying come on in was
there Deon signed to the Ukrainians sayingin Ukraine title forty two is then and
come on in good point. Theycame for the same reason refugees always come,
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guys, because the house is onfire, and when the house is
on fire, because there's an invasion. And think about all the reasons that
the Haitians came. Because there wasan assassination, a hurricane of flood,
because in Venezuela the inflation rate isnow, believe it or not, I
had to look this up. Incredible, up at ten million percent higher than
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it used to be. And infact you have all this turmoil around the
world. People come in Central America. There are people being interviewed on the
border. And despite when my conservativefriends say in the media, they're not
saying first words out of their mouth, I came because of Teli forty two,
the first words out of their mouthbefore the interview or the conservative interviewer
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from bright Part says, now,isn't it true you came because of Tili
forty two objection, leading to witnessright, no, no, no,
The first thing out of his mouth, her mouth is listen, I'm a
mother. The gangs came to thegang's run El Salvador. They came to
my house. They try to recruitmy son into the gang. I wouldn't
let them. They threatened to rapemy daughter, and they said, we're
coming back on Thursday, lady,and if you don't give us your son
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and daughter, we're going to burnyour house down. Now, my question
is, okay, it's all myfriends and the conservatives, all those smart
conservatives out there. So smart doyou think that woman in that situation was
waiting to hear from Joe Biden inthe White House about Title forty two before
she decided to split? Of course, not right. So it is bs
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this idea that somehow we are soarrogant and full of ourselves as Americans that
we believe that what we do willdictate the actions of Ukrainians and Haitians and
Salvadorans when people come when the houseis on fire, and Joe Biden then
starts to fire, All right,let me jump in here, you men.
You mentioned the war refugees, andthat's that's a deal of its own.
(26:53):
Yes, the whole and frank thing, and how long it took us
to get into that ended up gettinginto it anyway. But Ruben, why
are there so many hellhole countries allover the world. Are we the solution
to Venezuela's problems, Nicaragua's problems,Mexico's problems, Ukraines problems, Hades problems.
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Where does this end before somebody getsthe idea that, hey, maybe
maybe we ought to have a revolutionin this country or whatever whatever country it
is, because dictatorships don't work andyou end up with what we have in
the world. Are we the onlyplace that can provide some kind of a
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sanctuary or why can't they fix theirown countries at least at some point?
So I think when you get aroundthe world, you see that we're not
the only place, but we're thebest place. Yeah, We're the place
that often is literally, like RonaldReagan said, God bless him a shining
city on a hill. I remembergoing to Israel and a member of my
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delegation there are maybe six of us. One of them would say lust of
center, and after the trips shesaid, man, I got to say
God bless Israel and the United Statesbecause if this world, she said,
this is somebody from the left,she said, if this world did not
have Israel and the United States.You know, we'd be in a dismodity
Okay, this is it would beeven in war shape than we've done than
(28:18):
we are now. So the UnitedStates is always going to be you know
what Madeline Albright called the indispensable nationin times of war, in times of
famine and refugee everything. The goodnews is. The good news is Benjamin
Franklin was wrong and Donald Trump waswrong. Franklin thought that Germany was getting
rid of all it's bad people.No, Germany lost its best people.
(28:42):
We always take the best people.The best people left Ireland, the best
people left China, the best peopleleft Germany, the best people left Mexico,
the best people left Venezuela. Thepeople who stay in these countries are
part of the corrupt regimes that makethe country go and make they make money
for themselves in the process. Idon't want right now there are Mexicans in
(29:03):
the Gualahara country Club who look downon you and me, and look down
on all Americans in the education inSpain. I don't want that guy.
I don't want that guy. Iwant the guy who was spit out of
the country, like my Mexican grandfatherduring the Mexican Revolution, who's waiting tables
and washing dishes in Las Vegas.Because that guy is going to make it
in this country, and he's gonnalove this country, and he's going to
(29:25):
be appreciate this country, and he'sgonna raise kids in this country and they're
going to go to Yale and becomedoctors and take out all. Right,
But Ruben, the numbers are justuntenable. And you know, I know
you're you're a welcoming guy. You'resaying the America. America is not a
welcoming the nation, but you're awelcoming guy. What id forty people knock
on your front door and say,we got no place to sleep tonight.
We just got across the border.So we're coming into your house and we're
(29:47):
going to sleep in your bedroom,on your bed. We're going to use
your kitchen. And what you needto do is provide us the food or
we'll order it. You cook itfor us, and do it in our
language. So let me let meaddress it this way. Are these forty
people who showed it from my door? Are they responding to a job ad
that I put in a paper?Are they in my house? Because I
have made it okay. People,don't get me confused. Don't get me
(30:11):
confused with somebody who supports the UnitedStates Chamber of Commerce. I think that's
a weaseley organization if there ever wasone. But no, my point is
that we're we have got to havea control over this. Yes we need
immigrants. I agree with you onthat. Yes we want the breast and
brightness. But what are the immigrantshave to put on the table where it
(30:32):
seems like we're taking everybody. Shouldn'twe be looking for people who come here
and have something to offer, andyes, who speak the English language so
our culture doesn't have to change sofast. Yeah, so there's a lot
there, right, you give melike three or say about the English language.
You know, we didn't turn awaythe Italians in the nineteen twenties because
they came speaking Italian because we thought, and we trusted, and we were
(30:53):
right that their kids would learn English. That's what happened. You know,
you and I are in this conversationin English because my Spanish she's not very
good, and she's not so goodbecause guess what pappycan was wrong. Mexicans
to do assimilate. We do learnEnglish to the point where in the second
or third generation they've lost the Spanish. You don't have to worry about English.
English is always going to be fine. English was the you know,
(31:14):
three hundred pound heavyweight champ of theworld. It always converts people and always
wins out. We were afraid.It was exactly godlind, it's the same
thing. It's amazing, it's thesame thing. Do a Google search on
what Benjamin Franklin said about the Germansin the seventeen hundreds about language. He
said, you know, why shouldPennsylvania, which was founded by the English,
become a colony of aliens who couldno more adopt our language and learn
(31:38):
our customs than they could acquire ourcomplexion. Okay, close your eyes,
and suddenly we've gone from the midseventeen hundreds to the year twenty twenty three.
Franklin was worried that the Germans wouldcome here and change us because they
didn't speak English. He expected themto speak English right off the boat.
I just got here from Germany,and you expect me to learn English.
(32:00):
Well, I don't see it happening. In Austin, there's a Sam's Club
that I go to to get gasand groceries in Austin, and it's in
the middle of a very affluent areaof Austin, And when I walk into
that store, it's basically it's allSpanish. It's people of all ages.
I don't understand how do we getpeople to start transitioning to English when in
(32:23):
the Los Angeles school district there's onehundred and fifty some odd languages spoke and
we go out of our way tomake sure that we have everything printed in
all these different languages. Government hasto print their ads in the newspaper in
multiple languages. It doesn't make anysense to me. English immersion is what
gets you to speak English, Yes, and that's ultoly what they're going to
(32:45):
have. Because even the kid who'sin school and he's learning in a two
way bilingual program in schools, hehas to go home, he turns on
the television, he goes to themarket, English always wins. They're always
immersed in English. If I werein Mexico, and I were in Mexico,
we could speak English all day long, but eventually we have to step
outside and hear Spanish. So Ido not think. I've never believed that
(33:07):
English is somehow in danger there's noevidence of that, and it's always going
to do fine. I understand whenin terms of you know, people speaking
Spanish at the Sam's Club. WhenI go to you know, Chinatown in
Los Angeles, people speak Chinese.It doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother
me. I know that their kidsare ultimately speaking English English at home.
(33:27):
And let's be clear about one thinghere. I think one way that we
can. The language thing is awhole different thing. It's a great topic,
but let's be clear about one thing. Let's not resent to the people
who are speaking Spanish as if theyare are German or whatever, as as
if somehow they're defiant and they don'twant to learn English. And here as
an example, Sure, there areEnglish language classes at night at night,
(33:47):
school classes that are filled because peoplewant to learn English. Sure, people
want to learn English. But ifI'm driving to work in downtown Austin and
I see a billboard up there fromMcDonald's and ad advertising in Spanish, do
not get it into your head thatthat billboard exists because a bunch of Mexican
immigrants demanded that McDonald's trying to sellthem coffee in Spanish. Oh no,
(34:07):
I fully understand that. Let meask you if the name ron Uns means
anything to you. It does,it does, And you know who I'm
talking about, English for the childrenOceanside, California. Wrote about this in
my book Clear Moral Objectives. Theydid in Oceanside try to implement English for
the children. And what happened.Test scores shot up, and then what
(34:28):
happened the legislature killed all of it. Well, yeah, I want to
point about the billboard is don't blamethe fish for the bait. That was
my main point, right, don'tdon't blame the fish for the base for
the bait. These are Bilingual educationis not something that was done for Latino
children. It's something that was donetwo Latino children. Okay, I have
been a critic of bilingual education.I know Ron Runs a friend of mine.
(34:50):
I've done some work for Ron manyyears ago, back in the nineties,
communications work, back before I startedwriting columns, and I like Ron
a lot. Ron actually came intomine. Who's so brilliant? Ron is
brilliant? Off the charge brilliant Andhe came into my orbit because in nineteen
ninety four he was one of theonly Republicans in California, of note,
who challenged Prop one eighty seven,and Governor Wilson directly yeah by saying that
(35:15):
Prop twenty seven was going to destroythe Republican Party in California, and he
was right about that, and thatthis initiative Prop twenty seven, which denied
education, social services, and nonemergency healthcare to undocumented immigrants and their children,
even if the children were US born, that Ronns, who's Jewish and
of Jewish immigrant refugee stock, tookthe fence to that, wrote pieces in
(35:37):
the La Times against it, becameput for someone not grata in the Republican
Party. When he starts English forthe children, I applaud that effort,
written many things in favor of thateffort because I'm not threatened by the fact
that he teached these kids in English, because I said English is going to
win out anyway. So I thinkin the language debate, I'm not with
the far left and I'm not withthe far right. Again, I'm rooting
(36:00):
in the center. But I believethat we don't have to worry about English.
There's lots of things you have toworry about, like the border,
but we don't have to worry aboutEnglish. And on the border. I
would say this. There's three thingsthat I was told by a top level
in San Diego some years ago.We had lunch and it was in a
restaurant off the beaten and it wasoff the record, right, and he
(36:22):
told me, and he told meat the time. I really respected this
guy who was the border chief forSan Diego Sector. And I said to
him, what do you want?What do you need to control the border
traffic better? You're not going tobe able to seal the border, but
at least to improve the situation.And he said, we need three things.
He said, we need better roadsdown there. You need to have
the Army Corp of Engineer go downthere and build better roads so that my
(36:45):
guys and Dallas can get to apprehendpeople better of a rugged's terrain. Okay,
he says. You need to havetunnel detection equipment. He goes,
there are we have to make hundredsof tunnels underneath the San Diego Sector.
The military has that technology and wedon't. And the third thing he says
(37:07):
is we need more electronic surveillance.Okay, because this is really a twenty
first century battle. He says,every night we have like a CompStat thing.
We set up our command center andwe can see on the big board
the life of people coming across.The Coyotes, he said, are much
more sophisticated than the American people.Realize they have all these high tech tools,
(37:28):
the best money can buy, andwe need to be able to compete
with them. He did not say, and I asked him about this.
He did not say, we needa big, huge, big beautiful wall,
you know, twenty five billion dollarwall, you know, you know,
fifty feet tall. He did notsay that because when people come to
say they want a big, big, beautiful wall, it's typically Republican politicians
running for office and not border patrolchiefs who have to do the job every
(37:51):
day. All right, we havewe have about six minutes left. I
want to switch subjects right now.One thing you and I have in common,
Ruben, is that we both wrotefor many years for the Dallas Morning
News. You wrote as an employee. I wrote as a freelancer for over
fifteen years, hundreds of columns forthe Dallas Morning News. The Dallas Morning
(38:14):
News had a big, beautiful buildingat Communications Center next door to where I
used to work at WFAA. Theysold it the Austin, American Statesman has
sold its beautiful spot down on LadybirdLake and moved into a much smaller place.
I think newspapers are in some troubleright now, but beyond the profitability
(38:37):
of media like newspapers, journalism tome seems to be at a very low
ebb. Some people say it's dead. What do you make of the dishonesty
of You could say Fox News ifyou want to, but I think CNN
lies every time it opens a camera, every time it turns a microphone.
On Jake Tapper, we call himfake Jake here. It's it's incredible how
(39:01):
much how much disinformation like the Russiancollusion hopes, for example, that we
get from the networks. What isyour opinion of the future of journalism?
So journalism is not dead, butit is alive and coming back to life
in much different forms in digital form, in direct to consumer form. I
(39:24):
will say that traditional media what qIT calls legacy media. But traditional media
is defined very broadly as television networks, radio networks, magazines, and newspapers.
And there was a time where whenwe were growing up, there was
a time when that was the medialandscape, and you could be as sure
(39:45):
as the time and newsweek we're doingwell, as magazines and radio stutions were
doing great, they were considered agreat investment. And then I wake up
one morning and at C and Non television and laying off a bunch of
folks. Fox News obviously has troubleand they're laying off folks. I heard
Bill O'Reilly say the other day thathe thinks that there may not be a
Newsmax in the near future because ofthe dominion lawsuits and then they can afford
(40:07):
to pay. And so I wasBill O'Riley who said that, right,
So, the media landscapes in turmoil. As far newspapers go, it's still
the case that every week two newspapersgo out to business. The newspapers are
getting smaller and smaller than are,almost like the size of a leaflet.
Now you're right. They're selling offtheir buildings, they're playing off people.
Newspapers are in terrible shape. It'strue. Radio stations are not immune.
(40:29):
I was working at iHeart Radio herein San Diego, hosting radio shows,
as I've done for twenty five years. I've hosted radio shows in five different
markets, including Dallas, and Iwas hosting in San Diego, and I
was just like, as you say, kind of a freelancer. I'd come
in as a substitute host. Butthe people who were employed by our Heart
Radio, we're dealing with the bankruptcyfiling and massive layoffs, right so nobody,
(40:52):
nobody gets to point the figure andthe other guy. Every single aspect
of legacy media has been impacted bythis. And the reason is this.
It used to be the case thatif I wanted to listen to Rush live
on the radio, I would makean appointment radio listening and I would be
there at nine am, California timeto listen to it. If I showed
up at eleven because I was busythat morning, I missed two hours of
(41:13):
the show. But when pod podcastcame along and demand on demand listening came
along, you now can listen tothis radio show right now, this segment
that you and I are doing,and you and I and Jim are doing,
you can listen to this a weekfrom now whenever you want. Same
with television. And you got toknow that for our poor friends over in
(41:34):
advertising, the guys down the halland sales, it's a nightmare. It's
a nightmare if they can't be assuredof an audience at nine am. How
do you sell that to advertisers?And likewise on television, if you're not
assured that I'm going to be thereto watch Tucker Carlson at eight pm California
time. If I can watch hisshow whenever I want, how do you
sell that? So this is muchbigger than what I hear at conservative rotary
(41:58):
clubs. When I go to aconservative rotary club, I hear, well,
it's real simple. Was going outof business because there are a bunch
of liberals and they were their biason their sleeves and people are tired of
it. And I said, oh, that was great. You figure that
out. Now we can do theborder right. So that's not exactly what's
happening. There are many more demandson our time, on our eyeballs,
on our attention. I'll end withthis. When I used to go on
(42:20):
Bill O'Riley, and Bill O'Reilly isa friend of mine. I say that.
My liberal friends hate it when Isay that, but he remains a
friend of mine. When Bill O'Reillyhad me on a show for twenty years,
and I'd get a ton of mailbecause he was viewed by five point
five million people. When they letTucker go at Fox News, it was
revealed that he would get three millionpeople. My question is, Lynn and
(42:43):
Jim, where did those two pointfive million people go? Yeah? Where
did those two point five million peoplego? They didn't go to MSNBC because
that's a bunch of crap. Theydidn't go to CNN because they lie over
there. Those people just cut thecord. They stopped watching cable. They're
watching they're streaming on Netflix or so. It's a terrible dynamic time for all
(43:04):
of us in media. Nobody canbe sancummonius and smug about it. We're
all getting our butts kicked in differentways in every medium, including radio.
The good news is opportunity. Kayoffsprings opportunity and my friends, I seek
tons of opportunity out there as longas you're willing to go do digital media,
direct to consumer stuff. There's alot of stuff happening with Okay,
folks, we're visiting with Ruben Navarette, the most widely read Latino columnists in
(43:28):
the nation. You answered your ownemails. That's easy to communicate with you
at your Ruben Navarrette with two rsand two t s and an E at
the end, Ruben, I wanta dovetail on that, as we often
do. You're going to wake uptomorrow morning, Friday, looking forward to
the weekend. We've talked about immigration. What in general are you going to
wake up optimistic about America tomorrow?Four oh Because the morning get around the
(43:53):
world we realized this is the bestcountry in the history of mankind. We
are not perfect because evidenced by themistakes we've made in the past, slavery,
the internment of the Japanese, isthe seizure of the Southwest away from
Mexico at gunpoint, and the factthat we turned away Jews during World War
Two and their hour of need intheir hour of need. We are not
(44:15):
perfect, but we have the mechanismsbuilt into our country to fix what's broken
and to be better over time.And the fact that we have divided governments,
the fact that I mean the threebranches of government acting as checks and
balances. It's a brilliant system.It's the best country in the world.
We cannot take in the entire world, but everybody ought to get a hearing.
(44:35):
To my point of view, Ithink everybody ought to get a hearing,
a lawyer, a judge, andlet's you know, and let's give
you a shot. Man. Imean tell you what. There's a there's
a scene and apostalypse now where RobertDuvall playing Captain Kilgore, this great character
right says any the North vietnames won'tgive the vietcong a drink from a water
(44:57):
And the guy says, and Kilgoresays, look, you know, you
gotta go. Here's guts are fallenout. And you know a guy like
that, he's bravely. He candrink from my canteen a day. I
think to myself, if you're awoman who comes from Venezuela on foot with
two kids across all these terrible obstacles, and you come to the front door
and you say all I want I'mcoming. I'm not coming here for welfare.
(45:19):
I'm not coming here for you peopleto support me. I want you.
I want a shot to earn aliving, to make a have a
job, to earn somebody, toprovide a better chance for my kid.
I'm not saying you open the boardersaying come right in, but you at
least give her a hearing. She'searned that much. What have we earned
as people who were born in thiscountry. I'm a US citizen because I
was born in Fresno, California.I had nothing to do with it.
(45:43):
It was my mom. My momdid all the work, all right,
sir, All right, well,we will leave it there, Reuben.
It is always a pleasure. Wewill have you on the radio show again
soon and hope you have a greatweek. Guys, Thanks so much.
I appreciate it. Deep dive buffulconversation. All right, it was.
It was a lot of fun.All right. That's Carlin Woolley's Schoffel.
(46:05):
Right. Now, be logical,everybody, and we'll see you next time.
Welcome to Planet Logic. Today's episodeDon't Fear the end of title forty two.
Ruben Navarette is a nationally syndicated columnistout of San Diego whose thesis is
American needs more immigrants, not fewer, and he doesn't much like the Biden
administration's handling of immigration more than whatthe Republicans are suggesting. Ruben joined us
(00:21):
on a special edition of The Cardeland Wooly Show with me e Lynn Woolly
and my partner Jim Cardele from Talkthirteen seventy. This program was recorded on
May eighteen, twenty twenty three,in Austin. It's Carlin Woolly on Talk
thirteen seventy. Welcome to the program. Glad to have you along. We're
going to do a deep dive nowwith Ruben Navarette. Ruben Navarette Junior,
(00:43):
to be exactly correct with the WashingtonPost Writers Group. I'm Lynn Wooly,
my partner is Jim car Ruben.Glad to have you with us from Sonny,
San Diego. And you write abouta lot of the same things we
talk about. Sometimes we're going tohave a difference of opinion here, but
it's going to be interesting to seeexactly where you come from on some of
these issues. One of your columnsis entitled, Don't Fear the End of
(01:07):
Title forty two. America needs morerefugees and migrants, not fewer, but
there's a lot of people coming acrossthe border. Are you happy with the
way this is coming down? Legitivationit back with you again now, you
know, nobody can be happy withthe way this has turned out. Certainly
the mismanagement by the Biden administration,the fact that it saw this storm coming
(01:30):
Wayne Advanced didn't do anything about it. Those are all things that are legitimate
criticisms of administration. But what I'msaying in this piece is that if you
don't have in the United States atradition and to maintain a tradition of welcoming
refugees at least giving them a shotat making a legitimate asylum claim, then
really, what's the purpose of America. One of our proudest traditions isn't just
(01:53):
the stuff you hear on talk radio, you know, liberty and freedom.
It's also the fact that we've traditionallybeen, or tried to be, or
should have been, a safe havenfor people who for people who are fleeing
all sorts of terrible things, atleast have a shot at it, you
know, as I do that typicallywhen you apply for refugee status, you
(02:13):
only have a one in four chanceof ever getting accepted and having it approved.
But what Biden wants to do,and Trump before him, is basically
take away even that one and fourchance. Well, but the thing I
think that people object to so much, and I'll get your thoughts on this,
and that Jim will jump in herein the second it's it's not that
America is not a welcoming country.It's not that we were not originally a
(02:37):
nation of immigrants. I would arguethat that we're mostly native born now,
but it's the vast numbers that seemto come across the border and that seemed
to have no control. I mean, we're a country here, but we
don't have control of our own border. Can't we designate the number of people
that we can take in and expectmaybe some other countries that around the world
(03:00):
world to help out with some ofthese refugees. So I'm going to start
with the first part of your question. I just reject wholeheartedly this idea of
this myth that we are a welcomingcountry to immigrants and refugees. That's just
what they say in the brochure.It's not true, it's just the way
we advertise it to the world.And I'll give you some really quick examples.
If you go all the way backto the beginnings of the country,
(03:21):
to the seventeen hundreds, you seeBenjamin Franklin, or one of our founding
fathers and one of the nation's firstbigots, who railed against German Americans and
had all these terrible things about howGermans wouldn't assimilate, that we're going to
germanize us before we could americanize them, and all this nativism that. Then
you fast forward, you have theChinese Exclusion Act, you have prejudice against
(03:43):
the Irish, you have the nineteentwenty four Immigration Act, which keeps out
the Italians, the Greeks, andfamously, in our one true opportunity to
do the right thing and be ashining example, in the nineteen forties,
thirties and forties, we close thedoor to Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany.
We don't start leting in Jews untilthank you forty five, when Harry Truman
(04:06):
signs an executive where to do that? Thanks a lot, Thanks for nothing,
Harry, right, nineteen forty five, the war's over after six million
people have been killed. So thisbs that somehow we love immigrants. Has
all that come legally? We're anation of immigrants, Lynn and Jim.
We have never in the history ofthis country ever welcomed immigrants or refuges.
(04:28):
The national motto is not your plurables, Unham, it's there goes the neighborhood,
let's keep them out. I likethat for a bit of a chuckle
on a serious issue, there goesthe neighborhood. But Reuben, let me
maybe take a step back, becauseit always occurs to me having been involved
in politics like yourself now for thirtyodd years, and we remember when Ronald
(04:51):
Reagan back in the eighties had oneof the last, if not the last,
significant quote unquote immigration reform bill.The government, as US conservatives typically
say, is not the way,not the entity to be using to efficiently
(05:13):
facilitate certain things when it comes toinfluencing society and improving society. We do
have a legal immigration system in thiscountry. The problem is it's clearly not
working. We all get caught upin the symptoms, which is either title
forty two lately or Governor Abbot herein the last day calling on other governors
(05:36):
to help secure the border. Wedo have people wanting to get into the
country because Biden's sent the messaging.But the bottom line to me comes down
that our immigration system just as flatbroke. You can't blame people for trying
to improve their lives and get tothe shining city on the hill. But
(05:57):
the bottom line is our government systemof immigration assimilation is broken. Correct,
It's broken. It's broken for alot of different reasons. It's not just
that we have a bad cast ofcharacters. Man, if we could just
elect better people, we say,the Congress to the White House, this
whole thing we get fixed. True, it's not true. It is not
true that this is a personnel issue. This is something that's in the bones
(06:21):
of the place. Again, thehypocrisy, the dishonesty. We have Republican
lawmakers and Democratic as well, whogo back and lie to their constituent.
Yeah, just very quickly, Republicansgo forward. I was on a radio
show once in Seattle, and Iheard the conservative radio hosts talk about how
he had been told by conservative theconservative congressman of this area that they were
(06:42):
going to get tough on illegal immigrations. You know, vote for me,
send a check, and come tofind out. I knew about this congressman.
He had a very lenient record onceelected. Right. And the flip
side is true for Democrats who sayI love that I'm compassionate toward immigrants,
people like Barack Obama, you know, and then we elect him and he
supports three million people. Right.So it's the system's broken, Land,
(07:04):
not because again of personnel, don'tit's broken because you have a lot of
dishonesty hypocrisy in it. You havethis convenient sense that we can't make up
our minds on the border. Wehave two signs up, help wanted because
we need the workers, keep outyour trespassing. There's lots of contradictions of
the immigration debate and lots of dishonesty, and that's certainly one of the things
(07:26):
that the worse against that we're gettinginto solutions. But I'm fascinated as well
by the fact that you call yourselfa conservative land because if today I were
talking to a liberal radio host,I would just have some fun with it
and I would say, Okay,what kind of liberal are you? Are
you a liberal who's pro immigrant peoplehave a right to come to this country
and roll their dice to see whatthey can get in, and if they
(07:47):
can't get in, we'll send youback. Or are you a supporter of
Joe Biden? Are you a JoeBiden liberal? Because if you're a Joe
Biden liberals, you've got to supportwith the administrations doing on the border now,
which is to adopt a lot ofTrump policies and keep out a bunch
of folks and don't even let themapply. So liberal, mister liberal radio
talk show hosts, Today is theday you choose? Which one are you?
(08:07):
So when I hear when I hearyou say conservative, I say,
this is cool, Lynn. Whatkind of conservative are you? Are you
a conservative in the Milton Friedman,William F. Buckley, Ronald Reagan mode
of not believing in tariffs as away of controlling trade. Or are you
a Donald Trump? Yeah, weneed tariffs on aluminum and steel kind of
conservatives? Which one are you?Oh? Well, I mean that gets
(08:28):
off into a lot of other subjects, but you know sure, I thought
that some of the things Trump didVisa v. China was okay. On
trade. I mean, after all, these they're the biggest intellectual property theeves
on the face of the planet,and they take advantage of us. I
don't know, I sometimes you wantto get into that. I mean,
(08:48):
we can do it. I lookat at a trade deposit es Saxially.
We have slave labor in China buildingour products over here. A lot of
kids have to work in factories overthere, and you and I think Trump
took that on a little bit,so I kind of admired him for it.
Lenn, Let's do it this way. Let's take a look just staying
Apple's taples on immigrations, Let's justthis way. In the nineteen eighties,
(09:09):
there was a show called Crossfire ontelevision just started, Yeah, and one
of the one of the original conservativecommentators on that show was Tap Buchanon.
We all know and Pap Buchanon atthe time was in an argument with Tom
Braden, who was the liberal andit was over Irka, the aforementioned bill
you've talked about, the immigration reformand control like a nineteen ey sixth bill
(09:31):
that Reagan finded the law the Simpsonwas onlie bill and that it's famous at
that the interaction on that day wasTom Braden carrying water for organized labor and
union saying we got to keep theseimmigrants out. They're undermining US workers,
and Pap Buchanon saying, no,we got to let these people in because
it's not the job of the governmentto carry water for the labor unions.
(09:54):
We ought to have free competition,we ought to have people coming in.
We need the workers. And thatwas Pap you can in the eighties.
And the funny thing is you flippedthe script now so many years later and
the parties have changed positions. Right, So it's so, what kind of
conservative are you? Are you aconservative like a Reagan, a Buckley,
a Freedman, traditional economic conservative thatsays that immigration is really what drives the
(10:16):
country. People are coming here.I'm a heck. In many cases they're
going to come here and vote Republican. Be they Cubans coming from from Cuba,
Cuban Americans, be the mong refugeeswho came here in A very conservative
who lived in now in Fresno,in Minneapolis, Saint Paul, these are
future Republican voters. Right. They'refleeing tyranny, they're fleeing oppression and they're
going to come become Republican voters.So are they type Are you a Reagan
(10:37):
type conservative because you signed the bill, you know, Irka, Or are
you a Trump type conservative? Youthink that a lot of these folks are
murders and drug dealers. Well,I don't know. I don't know that
I'm either. Look, I livein Austin, Texas. One of our
major thoroughfares through downtown Austin is aCaesar Chavez. Our terminal at our airport
is the Barbara Barbara Jordan Terminal.Neither one of those liberals believed in unlimited
(11:01):
immigration, and I'm kind of I'mkind of there. I believe in immigration.
I believe in being able to applyfor asylum in the United States.
What I don't believe in is completelyopen borders, uncontrolled in a world with
terrorists with ISIS and Islamic terrorists thatcome across the border, can come across
(11:22):
the border with fentonel coming across theborder with eighty thousand children missing and perhaps
sold into slavery, with human traffickingand all the other things that has come
with the Biden policy. And quitefrankly, I'd have to ask you and
turn the tables. What kind ofa politician or political persuasion are you if
you support that right? So myown politics, you know, I've been
(11:46):
asked before, are usually by screenersbefore they put me on television. They'll
say, what are you a Democrator Republican? A liberal? Conservative?
I said, you know what,I'm what they used to call a journalist
In a time long gone, longago, there was this thing called journalists.
He was not expected to be onthe blue team or the red team.
And I so I'm a real lifejournalist. I'm not. I'm rooting
in the center. I'm not oneither team. I think both parties are
(12:07):
full of crep. I think theyare all interested in the same things,
which has power to make money,to make more power. I think there's
not a dimesworth of difference between MitchMcConnell and Chuck Schumer and the kind of
DNA that they represent, the kindof people they are, etc. Etc.
So you know that politically, butin terms, so I pick and
choose. I'm I'm someone who likea lot of Mexican Americans, most Mexican
(12:31):
Americans are registered Democrats, but veryconservative Democrats. Now I'm registered you know
in California, you can register noneof the above or declined to state,
you know, so you get bothsets of ballots and the primary. And
that's where I'm at. But Iagree and I understand that a lot of
Latinos are much more conservative. Andin fact, I heard a story this
(12:52):
morning on NPR that talked about thegames the Republicans are making with Latinos,
and as you know, they're makinginroads with the Latino vote. That's not
because Republicans are so smart they comeup with these click advertising campaigns. You
know, they'd be pretty dumb abouttheir outreach efforts. It's because these are
conservative voters, raw Reagan famously saidnineteen toy four, Lionelssa from San Antonio
told him, you know, Ican get you the Latino I can get
(13:13):
Luetinots to vote for you. AndReagan said, you won't have to convince
Latinos to become Republican. They alreadyare Republican, they just don't know it.
And I think that's that's the realthing. I believe that, and
it's one of the reasons I alwaysgo cross ways with a lot of liberal
Democrats. If I were living withyou in Austin. I would spend half
the week getting in fights with thetwo Conservatives that live in Austin, But
(13:35):
I'd spend the other half of theweek getting in fights with quite liberals who
live in Austin, you know whojust really oftentimes get on my last nerve.
Well, Austin, Austin is aSeattle or a Portland unto itself.
But I do agree with you onething. I constantly criticize the Liberals,
but I constantly, on this radioshow criticize the Conservatives too. I think
(13:56):
both of the parties are akin toa Thanksgiving Turkey. But on the other
hand, Ruben, you cannot youcannot sit there and say that you are
for the daily fishing of bodies outof the Rio Grand, the constant finding
immigrants locked in an eighteen wheeler anddying inside because they can't get out,
(14:18):
the constant major traffic jams or wrecksthat we have where immigrants are killed because
they were so many of them packedinto an suv. The eighty thousand children
that are missing right now, theschool, constant school lockdowns, which is
why you VALIDI didn't take the bigones seriously. They get those notices all
the time to lock down the schoolbecause they're on the border. The fentanyl
(14:39):
that comes across the number of peoplethat have been killed by it, We've
got to have order. My pointis we have to if we just obeyed
our immigration laws that we have now. But I don't think we can take
all the refugees in the world becauseit's most of the people in the world
that would want to come here.Yeah, so I'm not for an open
(15:01):
border. I've never been for anopen border. Do a Google search.
You'll see that I've done many interviewsdown at the border with border patrol agents
and I basically said, you know, I support the United States has to
have the right to controls its ownsovereignty, the sovereignty of its borders.
But where I differ from most politicians, including Republicans and Democrats a life right,
is I don't go down. See. I was the son. I'm
(15:22):
the son of a retired cop.My dad was on the job for thirty
seven years. I'm all about lawand order. I don't I get bristlele
when I get lectures about law andorder from people like say, path you
cannon who brags it in the twenties, who got in a fight with cops
who pulled them over, right,because you know nothing says I'm pro cop,
like fighting cops or in the exampleof January six, knock into the
ground and saying, let's kill himwith his own gun. That's real pro
(15:43):
cop, right pro law enforcement.So so I'm I'm all about law enforcements.
So here's my difference, though.I go down to the border and
I don't come down like a liberaland say this is what you need.
You need this and this and this. I don't go down there like a
conservative and say this is what youneed. You need this, this,
and this. I go down thereand say what do you need? I
(16:03):
asked them, what do you need? You're the experts, You're the people
on the border. You're the guysof the badges and the guns. I'm
just a journalists from up north inCentral Valley, grew up there and now
he lives in San Diego. Youtell me what you need. That's already
lynn a major difference between me andmost politicians. Yes, because they don't
know anything either. But they're gonnago down there and say you need to
have electronic surveillance, or you needto have a fense. Who need to
(16:26):
have this, they need to shutup and listen. And that's what I
do. So what do you whatdo we need down there? Do you,
first of all, do you agreethat we need some order that we
can bring a certain number of peoplein, but it cannot be unlimited.
Absolutely, And let's get let's beclear about where we were here. We
were talking before about you know,the refugee policies, and you were talking
about dead people. Let me letme get back to that as well.
(16:48):
I took a note to come backto that. But when you were talking,
when you were saying about um ofan open border, I'm not for
an open border. We never hadan open border. We were talking about
silent process that's said to even tenyears ago. For every four people who
apply, only one's going to getin, all right, three are going
to go back home, only oneout of four. My beef is not
(17:08):
that I want an open border.My beef is I'd like to go back
to the way it was one infour. Whereas Trump and Biden both said,
no no hearing, no lawyer,no judge, We're just gonna send
you right back. We're going torequire that you apply from your home country.
They take away even the one infour chances. So it's a bignessnomer
to say that we have an openborder because we have people coming across.
(17:32):
We've always had people coming across,and we always will because the wage disparity
between the United States and Mexico isten to one, and if you can
make, you know, one hundreddollars a day versus ten dollars a day,
you're gonna go there to feed yourfamily. So because you have that
wage disparity, people cross borders allthe time all over the world. And
my beef with the average Fox Newslistener is they see these people coming across
(17:55):
the border and they say, oh, my god, open border. They
don't see the fact that you havea border patrol that has let me helicopters
and drones and trucks and truck surveillanceand fencing and badges and guns. And
we've spent sixty billion dollars a yearat the Department Online Security, and I've
been down to the San Diego borderwhere it's all completely militarized and fortified.
And we're going to say that's anopen border. That's not sense, it's
(18:17):
a lie. Well, it's notworking too well. Well, that's a
different question, right, that's adifferent question. I mean, look,
you can look at Iraq or Iran, look at North Korea. If you
breach their borders, you get shot. Yes, well, let's look at
the let's go back to the questionhere. You said it's not working too.
Well, that's a bit like mesaying there's folks out there, Lynn
who are saying that there's this patientand he's getting no medicine, and I'm
(18:41):
saying, no, that he isgetting medicine. Look at all this medicine
we're giving him. And then youcome back and say, yeah, well
the medicine's not working. Well,no fairer. Okay, that was a
little hetorical trick there. You Well, my point is people have been flooding
across the border and unrestrained with recordnumbers basically since Joe Biden said welcome,
come on in, and they comein and they're wearing t shirts that say
(19:03):
thank you Joe Biden. So there'sa there's a reason for this as well
in terms of like Biden getting theblame for this, and this is something
that's not been said, but heneeds to be said more often. Donald
Trump's solutions to the problem as Isaid on an earlier episode of your show,
was to say to pay Homlow ondress Manuel Lopez Overthor to keep these
(19:25):
Mexican immigrants and mostly not Mexicans,in fact Venezuelan and Salvadoran's Haitians, to
keep them in Mexico and to Juanaand elsewhere. And that was considered quote
the solution. So Biden, whenhe comes in, he has a choice.
He can continue that policy or hecan discontinue it. And he started
to discontinue it with some exceptions.He kept Title forty two. He then
(19:45):
reinstituted and remain in Mexico policy andadd in the Haitians, which is something
not even Donald Trump did, bythe way. But but he had that
choice. He can keep those Trumppolicies in place where he could remove some
of them, and he did removesome of them, and then the people
came in. I compare this lensto somebody who shakes a bottle of seltzer,
shakes it up really, you know, hard, leaves it. They're
(20:07):
ready to explode, and then herecomes Lynn walks along, opens the bottle
and it all spills out. Thisis not to absolve President Biden, who
has failed with a big f immigration. It is to say he had an
accomplice. Okay, he had anaccomplice, and an accomplice who sent him
up was Donald Trump. Because Trumpcreated such pressure on the border with all
(20:27):
those people who were kept out forfour years, with more people coming all
the time, that it's no wonderthat once they said this is not a
policy we can sustain, than itjust exploded. Okay, I'm not leaving
either president off the hook. ButI wasn't just born, you know,
as they said in Texas. Iwas born at night, but not last
night. This is not a sensethat somehow this is all one hundred percent
(20:48):
Biden's doing. I will go furtherand say one of the reasons that the
Conservatives in this country and the Republicansdeserve so much more blame than they get
in the immigration debate is because theyhave always favorite employers and the US Chamber
of Commerce and the employers. Andremember I come from the Sandwaitheine Valley in
California farm country, and we producein the Sanwatine Valley and central California the
(21:11):
majority almost all the fruits and vegetablesfor the entire country. And we make
in that industry in that region fiftybillion dollars a year in revenue, fifty
billion for the state of California.You would not have that revenue source if
not for illegal immigrations working the fieldsdoing those jobs of Americans won't do in
central California. And guess what thoseconservative farmers who drive around their tractors,
(21:33):
they used to listen to Rush,Now they watch Fox News and they say,
we control the border. They're theones hiring these dealu evermen. So
you don't get this followed up inAmerica, it's just one party has gone
a monk. It's both parties whohave contributed to this, and other people
say this as well. You'll hearthis on Ben Shapiro show, and servatives
will say this as well. TheTucker Carlson used to say this as well.
(21:55):
The conservative are finally coming along tothe fact that you just can't blame
the liberals and call it today.Reuben, let me ask you this.
I really appreciate both what you andLeonard saying about the system essentially being broken
as it exists today. And Reubenyour point, I think what I hear
you saying, and you look athistory in America, there always have been
(22:22):
bigots. There always are bad apples. It's part of the human condition to
maybe not hate as a learned behavior, but to protect your own or question
others is probably a kind way toput it. But I like your idea
about going down to those on theground and saying, what do you need?
(22:48):
What can we do to make thingsbetter currently right now? Though it
started with maybe Barack Obama, I'llsay, and Trump did some things,
as you point out, that probablyexacerbated the problem. And then we've got
a clear, flashing neon sign sayingcome, Come, Come to everybody across
(23:12):
the world. But when you havethe border patrol turned their backs, which
happened a couple weeks ago, theSecretary of Homeland Security, may Orcus,
goes down there and he's so disrespectedright now because of the policies that they're
implementing and the idea or the factthat the Biden administration is not providing what's
(23:37):
needed right now, what like asylumprocessing judges could be surged down to the
border. There are some real thingsthat could be done, and we first
have to put a staunch on theneon sign flashing across the globe. So
let me tell you about the Neonsign. When Russia invaded Ukraine, a
(24:00):
lot of Ukrainians fled, God blessthem out of Ukraine. They didn't just
go to Poland. Some made theirway all the way to Tijuana. They
flew, you know, those withmeans we were able to fly out of
Ukraine. They flew to Mexico City. They made their way to Tijuana,
and they're at the US Mexico borderUkrainians. Now, it doesn't make sense
(24:22):
to me to spend billions of dollarsUkraine and not welcome Ukrainians who are fleeing
Vladimir Putin's invasion. I think thisis had amount to what happened in the
thirties. We should never live downour shame that we turned our back on
people who are fleeing the devil.It should have been a policy of oh,
you're fleeing Hitler, come right in, you go to the front of
the line, and that was notthe case. Yeah. So if we're
(24:45):
bringing in Ukrainians and they had tomake a special exception to bring in a
hundred thousand Ukrainians, Biden did.The question is did the Ukrainians come to
the pet Ciuana border because there wasa Neon sawing saying come on in was
there Deon signed to the Ukrainians sayingin Ukraine title forty two is then and
come on in good point. Theycame for the same reason refugees always come,
(25:07):
guys, because the house is onfire, and when the house is
on fire, because there's an invasion. And think about all the reasons that
the Haitians came. Because there wasan assassination, a hurricane of flood,
because in Venezuela the inflation rate isnow, believe it or not, I
had to look this up. Incredible, up at ten million percent higher than
(25:27):
it used to be. And infact you have all this turmoil around the
world. People come in Central America. There are people being interviewed on the
border. And despite when my conservativefriends say in the media, they're not
saying first words out of their mouth, I came because of Teli forty two,
the first words out of their mouthbefore the interview or the conservative interviewer
(25:48):
from bright Part says, now,isn't it true you came because of Tili
forty two objection, leading to witnessright, no, no, no,
The first thing out of his mouth, her mouth is listen, I'm a
mother. The gangs came to thegang's run El Salvador. They came to
my house. They try to recruitmy son into the gang. I wouldn't
let them. They threatened to rapemy daughter, and they said, we're
coming back on Thursday, lady,and if you don't give us your son
(26:10):
and daughter, we're going to burnyour house down. Now, my question
is, okay, it's all myfriends and the conservatives, all those smart
conservatives out there. So smart doyou think that woman in that situation was
waiting to hear from Joe Biden inthe White House about Title forty two before
she decided to split? Of course, not right. So it is bs
(26:32):
this idea that somehow we are soarrogant and full of ourselves as Americans that
we believe that what we do willdictate the actions of Ukrainians and Haitians and
Salvadorans when people come when the houseis on fire, and Joe Biden then
starts to fire, All right,let me jump in here, you men.
You mentioned the war refugees, andthat's that's a deal of its own.
(26:53):
Yes, the whole and frank thing, and how long it took us
to get into that ended up gettinginto it anyway. But Ruben, why
are there so many hellhole countries allover the world. Are we the solution
to Venezuela's problems, Nicaragua's problems,Mexico's problems, Ukraines problems, Hades problems.
(27:15):
Where does this end before somebody getsthe idea that, hey, maybe
maybe we ought to have a revolutionin this country or whatever whatever country it
is, because dictatorships don't work andyou end up with what we have in
the world. Are we the onlyplace that can provide some kind of a
(27:36):
sanctuary or why can't they fix theirown countries at least at some point?
So I think when you get aroundthe world, you see that we're not
the only place, but we're thebest place. Yeah, We're the place
that often is literally, like RonaldReagan said, God bless him a shining
city on a hill. I remembergoing to Israel and a member of my
(27:57):
delegation there are maybe six of us. One of them would say lust of
center, and after the trips shesaid, man, I got to say
God bless Israel and the United Statesbecause if this world, she said,
this is somebody from the left,she said, if this world did not
have Israel and the United States.You know, we'd be in a dismodity
Okay, this is it would beeven in war shape than we've done than
(28:18):
we are now. So the UnitedStates is always going to be you know
what Madeline Albright called the indispensable nationin times of war, in times of
famine and refugee everything. The goodnews is. The good news is Benjamin
Franklin was wrong and Donald Trump waswrong. Franklin thought that Germany was getting
rid of all it's bad people.No, Germany lost its best people.
(28:42):
We always take the best people.The best people left Ireland, the best
people left China, the best peopleleft Germany, the best people left Mexico,
the best people left Venezuela. Thepeople who stay in these countries are
part of the corrupt regimes that makethe country go and make they make money
for themselves in the process. Idon't want right now there are Mexicans in
(29:03):
the Gualahara country Club who look downon you and me, and look down
on all Americans in the education inSpain. I don't want that guy.
I don't want that guy. Iwant the guy who was spit out of
the country, like my Mexican grandfatherduring the Mexican Revolution, who's waiting tables
and washing dishes in Las Vegas.Because that guy is going to make it
in this country, and he's gonnalove this country, and he's going to
(29:25):
be appreciate this country, and he'sgonna raise kids in this country and they're
going to go to Yale and becomedoctors and take out all. Right,
But Ruben, the numbers are justuntenable. And you know, I know
you're you're a welcoming guy. You'resaying the America. America is not a
welcoming the nation, but you're awelcoming guy. What id forty people knock
on your front door and say,we got no place to sleep tonight.
We just got across the border.So we're coming into your house and we're
(29:47):
going to sleep in your bedroom,on your bed. We're going to use
your kitchen. And what you needto do is provide us the food or
we'll order it. You cook itfor us, and do it in our
language. So let me let meaddress it this way. Are these forty
people who showed it from my door? Are they responding to a job ad
that I put in a paper?Are they in my house? Because I
have made it okay. People,don't get me confused. Don't get me
(30:11):
confused with somebody who supports the UnitedStates Chamber of Commerce. I think that's
a weaseley organization if there ever wasone. But no, my point is
that we're we have got to havea control over this. Yes we need
immigrants. I agree with you onthat. Yes we want the breast and
brightness. But what are the immigrantshave to put on the table where it
(30:32):
seems like we're taking everybody. Shouldn'twe be looking for people who come here
and have something to offer, andyes, who speak the English language so
our culture doesn't have to change sofast. Yeah, so there's a lot
there, right, you give melike three or say about the English language.
You know, we didn't turn awaythe Italians in the nineteen twenties because
they came speaking Italian because we thought, and we trusted, and we were
(30:53):
right that their kids would learn English. That's what happened. You know,
you and I are in this conversationin English because my Spanish she's not very
good, and she's not so goodbecause guess what pappycan was wrong. Mexicans
to do assimilate. We do learnEnglish to the point where in the second
or third generation they've lost the Spanish. You don't have to worry about English.
English is always going to be fine. English was the you know,
(31:14):
three hundred pound heavyweight champ of theworld. It always converts people and always
wins out. We were afraid.It was exactly godlind, it's the same
thing. It's amazing, it's thesame thing. Do a Google search on
what Benjamin Franklin said about the Germansin the seventeen hundreds about language. He
said, you know, why shouldPennsylvania, which was founded by the English,
become a colony of aliens who couldno more adopt our language and learn
(31:38):
our customs than they could acquire ourcomplexion. Okay, close your eyes,
and suddenly we've gone from the midseventeen hundreds to the year twenty twenty three.
Franklin was worried that the Germans wouldcome here and change us because they
didn't speak English. He expected themto speak English right off the boat.
I just got here from Germany,and you expect me to learn English.
(32:00):
Well, I don't see it happening. In Austin, there's a Sam's Club
that I go to to get gasand groceries in Austin, and it's in
the middle of a very affluent areaof Austin, And when I walk into
that store, it's basically it's allSpanish. It's people of all ages.
I don't understand how do we getpeople to start transitioning to English when in
(32:23):
the Los Angeles school district there's onehundred and fifty some odd languages spoke and
we go out of our way tomake sure that we have everything printed in
all these different languages. Government hasto print their ads in the newspaper in
multiple languages. It doesn't make anysense to me. English immersion is what
gets you to speak English, Yes, and that's ultoly what they're going to
(32:45):
have. Because even the kid who'sin school and he's learning in a two
way bilingual program in schools, hehas to go home, he turns on
the television, he goes to themarket, English always wins. They're always
immersed in English. If I werein Mexico, and I were in Mexico,
we could speak English all day long, but eventually we have to step
outside and hear Spanish. So Ido not think. I've never believed that
(33:07):
English is somehow in danger there's noevidence of that, and it's always going
to do fine. I understand whenin terms of you know, people speaking
Spanish at the Sam's Club. WhenI go to you know, Chinatown in
Los Angeles, people speak Chinese.It doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother
me. I know that their kidsare ultimately speaking English English at home.
(33:27):
And let's be clear about one thinghere. I think one way that we
can. The language thing is awhole different thing. It's a great topic,
but let's be clear about one thing. Let's not resent to the people
who are speaking Spanish as if theyare are German or whatever, as as
if somehow they're defiant and they don'twant to learn English. And here as
an example, Sure, there areEnglish language classes at night at night,
(33:47):
school classes that are filled because peoplewant to learn English. Sure, people
want to learn English. But ifI'm driving to work in downtown Austin and
I see a billboard up there fromMcDonald's and ad advertising in Spanish, do
not get it into your head thatthat billboard exists because a bunch of Mexican
immigrants demanded that McDonald's trying to sellthem coffee in Spanish. Oh no,
(34:07):
I fully understand that. Let meask you if the name ron Uns means
anything to you. It does,it does, And you know who I'm
talking about, English for the childrenOceanside, California. Wrote about this in
my book Clear Moral Objectives. Theydid in Oceanside try to implement English for
the children. And what happened.Test scores shot up, and then what
(34:28):
happened the legislature killed all of it. Well, yeah, I want to
point about the billboard is don't blamethe fish for the bait. That was
my main point, right, don'tdon't blame the fish for the base for
the bait. These are Bilingual educationis not something that was done for Latino
children. It's something that was donetwo Latino children. Okay, I have
been a critic of bilingual education.I know Ron Runs a friend of mine.
(34:50):
I've done some work for Ron manyyears ago, back in the nineties,
communications work, back before I startedwriting columns, and I like Ron
a lot. Ron actually came intomine. Who's so brilliant? Ron is
brilliant? Off the charge brilliant Andhe came into my orbit because in nineteen
ninety four he was one of theonly Republicans in California, of note,
who challenged Prop one eighty seven,and Governor Wilson directly yeah by saying that
(35:15):
Prop twenty seven was going to destroythe Republican Party in California, and he
was right about that, and thatthis initiative Prop twenty seven, which denied
education, social services, and nonemergency healthcare to undocumented immigrants and their children,
even if the children were US born, that Ronns, who's Jewish and
of Jewish immigrant refugee stock, tookthe fence to that, wrote pieces in
(35:37):
the La Times against it, becameput for someone not grata in the Republican
Party. When he starts English forthe children, I applaud that effort,
written many things in favor of thateffort because I'm not threatened by the fact
that he teached these kids in English, because I said English is going to
win out anyway. So I thinkin the language debate, I'm not with
the far left and I'm not withthe far right. Again, I'm rooting
(36:00):
in the center. But I believethat we don't have to worry about English.
There's lots of things you have toworry about, like the border,
but we don't have to worry aboutEnglish. And on the border. I
would say this. There's three thingsthat I was told by a top level
in San Diego some years ago.We had lunch and it was in a
restaurant off the beaten and it wasoff the record, right, and he
(36:22):
told me, and he told meat the time. I really respected this
guy who was the border chief forSan Diego Sector. And I said to
him, what do you want?What do you need to control the border
traffic better? You're not going tobe able to seal the border, but
at least to improve the situation.And he said, we need three things.
He said, we need better roadsdown there. You need to have
the Army Corp of Engineer go downthere and build better roads so that my
(36:45):
guys and Dallas can get to apprehendpeople better of a rugged's terrain. Okay,
he says. You need to havetunnel detection equipment. He goes,
there are we have to make hundredsof tunnels underneath the San Diego Sector.
The military has that technology and wedon't. And the third thing he says
(37:07):
is we need more electronic surveillance.Okay, because this is really a twenty
first century battle. He says,every night we have like a CompStat thing.
We set up our command center andwe can see on the big board
the life of people coming across.The Coyotes, he said, are much
more sophisticated than the American people.Realize they have all these high tech tools,
(37:28):
the best money can buy, andwe need to be able to compete
with them. He did not say, and I asked him about this.
He did not say, we needa big, huge, big beautiful wall,
you know, twenty five billion dollarwall, you know, you know,
fifty feet tall. He did notsay that because when people come to
say they want a big, big, beautiful wall, it's typically Republican politicians
running for office and not border patrolchiefs who have to do the job every
(37:51):
day. All right, we havewe have about six minutes left. I
want to switch subjects right now.One thing you and I have in common,
Ruben, is that we both wrotefor many years for the Dallas Morning
News. You wrote as an employee. I wrote as a freelancer for over
fifteen years, hundreds of columns forthe Dallas Morning News. The Dallas Morning
(38:14):
News had a big, beautiful buildingat Communications Center next door to where I
used to work at WFAA. Theysold it the Austin, American Statesman has
sold its beautiful spot down on LadybirdLake and moved into a much smaller place.
I think newspapers are in some troubleright now, but beyond the profitability
(38:37):
of media like newspapers, journalism tome seems to be at a very low
ebb. Some people say it's dead. What do you make of the dishonesty
of You could say Fox News ifyou want to, but I think CNN
lies every time it opens a camera, every time it turns a microphone.
On Jake Tapper, we call himfake Jake here. It's it's incredible how
(39:01):
much how much disinformation like the Russiancollusion hopes, for example, that we
get from the networks. What isyour opinion of the future of journalism?
So journalism is not dead, butit is alive and coming back to life
in much different forms in digital form, in direct to consumer form. I
(39:24):
will say that traditional media what qIT calls legacy media. But traditional media
is defined very broadly as television networks, radio networks, magazines, and newspapers.
And there was a time where whenwe were growing up, there was
a time when that was the medialandscape, and you could be as sure
(39:45):
as the time and newsweek we're doingwell, as magazines and radio stutions were
doing great, they were considered agreat investment. And then I wake up
one morning and at C and Non television and laying off a bunch of
folks. Fox News obviously has troubleand they're laying off folks. I heard
Bill O'Reilly say the other day thathe thinks that there may not be a
Newsmax in the near future because ofthe dominion lawsuits and then they can afford
(40:07):
to pay. And so I wasBill O'Riley who said that, right,
So, the media landscapes in turmoil. As far newspapers go, it's still
the case that every week two newspapersgo out to business. The newspapers are
getting smaller and smaller than are,almost like the size of a leaflet.
Now you're right. They're selling offtheir buildings, they're playing off people.
Newspapers are in terrible shape. It'strue. Radio stations are not immune.
(40:29):
I was working at iHeart Radio herein San Diego, hosting radio shows,
as I've done for twenty five years. I've hosted radio shows in five different
markets, including Dallas, and Iwas hosting in San Diego, and I
was just like, as you say, kind of a freelancer. I'd come
in as a substitute host. Butthe people who were employed by our Heart
Radio, we're dealing with the bankruptcyfiling and massive layoffs, right so nobody,
(40:52):
nobody gets to point the figure andthe other guy. Every single aspect
of legacy media has been impacted bythis. And the reason is this.
It used to be the case thatif I wanted to listen to Rush live
on the radio, I would makean appointment radio listening and I would be
there at nine am, California timeto listen to it. If I showed
up at eleven because I was busythat morning, I missed two hours of
(41:13):
the show. But when pod podcastcame along and demand on demand listening came
along, you now can listen tothis radio show right now, this segment
that you and I are doing,and you and I and Jim are doing,
you can listen to this a weekfrom now whenever you want. Same
with television. And you got toknow that for our poor friends over in
(41:34):
advertising, the guys down the halland sales, it's a nightmare. It's
a nightmare if they can't be assuredof an audience at nine am. How
do you sell that to advertisers?And likewise on television, if you're not
assured that I'm going to be thereto watch Tucker Carlson at eight pm California
time. If I can watch hisshow whenever I want, how do you
sell that? So this is muchbigger than what I hear at conservative rotary
(41:58):
clubs. When I go to aconservative rotary club, I hear, well,
it's real simple. Was going outof business because there are a bunch
of liberals and they were their biason their sleeves and people are tired of
it. And I said, oh, that was great. You figure that
out. Now we can do theborder right. So that's not exactly what's
happening. There are many more demandson our time, on our eyeballs,
on our attention. I'll end withthis. When I used to go on
(42:20):
Bill O'Riley, and Bill O'Reilly isa friend of mine. I say that.
My liberal friends hate it when Isay that, but he remains a
friend of mine. When Bill O'Reillyhad me on a show for twenty years,
and I'd get a ton of mailbecause he was viewed by five point
five million people. When they letTucker go at Fox News, it was
revealed that he would get three millionpeople. My question is, Lynn and
(42:43):
Jim, where did those two pointfive million people go? Yeah? Where
did those two point five million peoplego? They didn't go to MSNBC because
that's a bunch of crap. Theydidn't go to CNN because they lie over
there. Those people just cut thecord. They stopped watching cable. They're
watching they're streaming on Netflix or so. It's a terrible dynamic time for all
(43:04):
of us in media. Nobody canbe sancummonius and smug about it. We're
all getting our butts kicked in differentways in every medium, including radio.
The good news is opportunity. Kayoffsprings opportunity and my friends, I seek
tons of opportunity out there as longas you're willing to go do digital media,
direct to consumer stuff. There's alot of stuff happening with Okay,
folks, we're visiting with Ruben Navarette, the most widely read Latino columnists in
(43:28):
the nation. You answered your ownemails. That's easy to communicate with you
at your Ruben Navarrette with two rsand two t s and an E at
the end, Ruben, I wanta dovetail on that, as we often
do. You're going to wake uptomorrow morning, Friday, looking forward to
the weekend. We've talked about immigration. What in general are you going to
wake up optimistic about America tomorrow?Four oh Because the morning get around the
(43:53):
world we realized this is the bestcountry in the history of mankind. We
are not perfect because evidenced by themistakes we've made in the past, slavery,
the internment of the Japanese, isthe seizure of the Southwest away from
Mexico at gunpoint, and the factthat we turned away Jews during World War
Two and their hour of need intheir hour of need. We are not
(44:15):
perfect, but we have the mechanismsbuilt into our country to fix what's broken
and to be better over time.And the fact that we have divided governments,
the fact that I mean the threebranches of government acting as checks and
balances. It's a brilliant system.It's the best country in the world.
We cannot take in the entire world, but everybody ought to get a hearing.
(44:35):
To my point of view, Ithink everybody ought to get a hearing,
a lawyer, a judge, andlet's you know, and let's give
you a shot. Man. Imean tell you what. There's a there's
a scene and apostalypse now where RobertDuvall playing Captain Kilgore, this great character
right says any the North vietnames won'tgive the vietcong a drink from a water
(44:57):
And the guy says, and Kilgoresays, look, you know, you
gotta go. Here's guts are fallenout. And you know a guy like
that, he's bravely. He candrink from my canteen a day. I
think to myself, if you're awoman who comes from Venezuela on foot with
two kids across all these terrible obstacles, and you come to the front door
and you say all I want I'mcoming. I'm not coming here for welfare.
(45:19):
I'm not coming here for you peopleto support me. I want you.
I want a shot to earn aliving, to make a have a
job, to earn somebody, toprovide a better chance for my kid.
I'm not saying you open the boardersaying come right in, but you at
least give her a hearing. She'searned that much. What have we earned
as people who were born in thiscountry. I'm a US citizen because I
was born in Fresno, California.I had nothing to do with it.
(45:43):
It was my mom. My momdid all the work, all right,
sir, All right, well,we will leave it there, Reuben.
It is always a pleasure. Wewill have you on the radio show again
soon and hope you have a greatweek. Guys, Thanks so much.
I appreciate it. Deep dive buffulconversation. All right, it was.
It was a lot of fun.All right. That's Carlin Woolley's Schoffel.
(46:05):
Right. Now, be logical,everybody, and we'll see you next time.
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