Hungarian Foreign Minister Wants End to War

Hungary’s Foreign Minister, Peter Szijjarto was in Texas last week. Jim Cardle and I sat down with him in the studios of the Texas Public Policy Foundation in downtown Austin. The main subject was war in Ukraine, but we also talked about Joe Biden at the United Nations, immigration and refugee issues, and Donald Trump. This program was recorded on September 19, 2023.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Planet Logic. Today's episodeHungarian Foreign Minister wants end to war.
Hungary's Foreign Minister, Peter Siarto,was in Texas last week. Jim Cardle
and I sat down with him inthe studios of the Texas Public Policy Foundation
in downtown Austin. The main subjectwas war in Ukraine, but we also

(00:20):
talked about Joe Biden at the UnitedNations, immigration and refugee issues, and
Donald Trump. This program was recordedon September nineteen, twenty twenty three.
Welcome to a special edition of theCardle and Wooly Show. I'm Lynn Wooly.
My partner is Jim Cardle. We'respeaking today to the Minister of Foreign

(00:41):
Affairs of Hungary, Peter Siarto.And I know that's close. What a
fantastic pronunciation. Thank you. I'mnot sure it was exactly correct. I
will have to ride Bukabad the waysmy name was pronouns already. Oh,
I can only imagine. And aHungary has a repation of being a conservative

(01:02):
nation in the midst of a lotof non conservative nations. Is that true?
Absolutely? Absolutely, And we areproud of it. We are proud
of it. That is one ofthe reasons why we are being under such
a heavy attack by the liberal mainstream, especially in Europe. You know where
Brussels, the center, the capitalof the European Union, is kind of

(01:23):
a hostage of this international liberal mainstream. And this mainstream says about itself that
it is the only progressive, successful, tolerant, whatever, well behaving ideology
of the world. And the factthat there are successful conservative governments, successful

(01:45):
conservative nations them existing is kind ofa denial to what the liberal mainstream says
about itself. So we are veryheavy attack. Since we have taken office
basically in twos and ten, weare now the longest serving government in Europe.

(02:08):
Our prime minister has been the longestserving prime minister in Europe. And
since we we have a very strongChristian democratic background and a very strong Christian
democratic basis for our government policies,we are very heavily criticized basically on everything.

(02:29):
Well, Trumpet for being America first, Yeah sure, and you know
called he's called a populist or ora or even list or something like that.
But but mister Orban is kind ofthat same mindset. Is absolutely so

(02:49):
why wouldn't the country put its owncountry first, I don't understand, to
be honest. So when President Trumpmade it very clear at America First,
we understood it, and we understoodit because we say Hungary first. So
what would be first for us ifnot Hungary? And what would be first
for President Trump if not America.Well, in America is often known as
the world's policemen. I mean wesend troops places where they need to be

(03:13):
sent sometimes and sometimes where we probablyshouldn't interfere. We also send food in
times of earthquakes and things like that. If we're not a strong country,
how are we supposed to do that? Yeah, that's right. So we
are interested in both United States andEuropean Union to be strong. But the
question is what does it mean tobe strong for us? In Europe,
for example, there is a strongdebate because those in Brussels and those in

(03:38):
the liberal western European governments think thatEuropean Union can be strong if it is
like a United States of Europe,so kind of superstate, kind of federalistic
state. Our approach is different.We do believe that European Union can only
be strong in case the member statesthemselves are strong if they can stick to

(04:00):
their national specificities, to their histories, to their traditions, cultures, religion,
and so on and so forth.So for us superganty. For us,
the strength of the nation is extremelyimportant. So when President Trump South
America first, we totally understand it. Let's get into some issues, minister,

(04:20):
if I can, of the day, perhaps appreciate your comments there the
United Nations up in New York City. We mentioned ahead of time that you're
involved in that. You've got someof your peers and official Hungarian ministers involved
in that. I heard President Bidenearlier today during his comments say that we're

(04:45):
at an inflection point in history.Obviously, the war in Ukraine is in
your region. You share a borderwith them. Tell us what you think
from on the ground right now aboutthe status of the war war in this
idea of an inflection point, ifyou would look, we Hungarians are in
a special position. You are becausenumber one, we are a neighboring country.

(05:11):
So whenever there's a war in theneighboring country, the impacts of it
are really serious and immediate on you. And in case there's a risk of
escalation, that is a good reasonto be concerned because if escalation takes place
it does not take place thousands ofkilometers away, but first it takes place

(05:33):
in the neighborhood. On the otherhand, what is not very widely known
unfortunately, although we say the lot, but no one wants to listen to,
is the fact that we are representinga nation, members of which are
dying in this war. Yes,members of which are dying in this war.
Because there's a significant Hungarian community livingin Ukraine. They are living at

(05:59):
the western end of Ukraine, aroundone hundred and fifty thousand ethnic Hungarians who
are citizens of Ukraine. Therefore,they are being mobilized to the Ukrainian army,
They are being deployed to the frontline, and they die. And
a lot of Hungarian ethnic Hungarians havedied already in this war. Family back

(06:20):
in your nation, sorry, theyhave family back in your name. Yeah,
sure, so we will impact.Yeah. So therefore, when we
argue in favor of peace to bemade as soon as possible, no one
would like to listen to our arguments. But we are being considered, as
you know, the spies of Puccin, as the propagandists of Kremlin, and

(06:42):
as you know, the allies ofthe Russians. So that it's such a
simplification, which is a very seriousinsult, because our European friends do not
want to listen to us. Andon the other hand, when we speak
about peace, you know, themainstream, including here in America and in
Europe as well, says that thecircumstances or the conditions for peace are not

(07:04):
there. But our approach is different. We do believe that the conditions and
the circumstances for peace today are muchbetter compared to how they will be tomorrow.
Because with another day, more peoplewill die and more more destruction will
take place. So those who saythat the that the that the conditions and

(07:27):
the circumstances for peace will improve bythe time passing, they are false.
They are false because the more daysbeing spent in the war, the more
people dies, more people die,and and the more destruction takes place.
So circumstances for peace were better yesterdaythan today, but today definitely are better
how they will be tomorrow. Sopeace should be made as soon as possible

(07:50):
to save the lives of the peopletomorrow when you can have first today,
I hear you. I'm wondering whatthe Hungarian policy is on that settlement.
For example, are there parts ofUkraine that Putin should be allowed to keep,
maybe where there's heavy Russian settlements,What about Crimea, what about the

(08:11):
rebuilding of Ukraine as all that tobe part of the settlement, And what
is your government looking for? Whatwould be a good solution. Well,
here I can speak about principles,because you know, the peace talks are
not happening yet. So our principleis that territorial integrity and suvererignity must be

(08:33):
respected under any circum ol circumstances,territorial integrity and serignty must be respect.
So Putin would not be allowed underunder such a plan to keep anything that
he's acquired in this war. Well, according to my understanding, this goes
beyond the respect of territorial integrity andsuvererignty. But you know, the major

(08:54):
thing here, The major thing hereis that we have to save the lives
of the people. And therefore whatwe say is that an establishment of a
ceasefire is a must as soon aspossible. In case there's a ceasefire,
peace talks can be started. Andin case peace talks are started, then
we have a hope for a peaceagreement. Because look, I mean we

(09:15):
have received more than a million refugesin Hungary, more than a million refuges,
and those are ninety nine percent Thosewere ninety nine percent torn apart families
so left the father behind because accordingto the conscription regulations in Ukraine, men
could not leave the country. Andyou know, it's heartbreaking to see those

(09:39):
kids being accompanied only by the motherand sometimes grandparents, but the father stayed
at home. So these are tragedieswhich which if you are faced with personally,
you understand how heartbreaking they are.And the more they spent with ward,
the more personal and family tragedies happen. So if I may say that

(10:01):
without any kind of intention to interfereinto domestic politics of the United States,
but if President Trump had stayed inoffice, I'm pretty sure this war would
not have been launched. And inthe in the same way, I do
believe that if there's someone who canmake peace here, I think that would

(10:22):
be President Trump. So again,without any kind of intention to interfere,
we definitely cross fingers for peace,and we definitely cross fingers for the personal
preconditions of the peace. So letme ask you in that same vein the
Wall Street Journal and numerous polls,here in America have recently had numbers as

(10:43):
high as seventy five percent of Americansthink that Donald that Joe Biden is going
to be too old. I'm maybegoing to put you on the spot.
You can answer it however you wish. But as Lynn referred to earlier,
the world depends on the United Statestoday here September of twenty twenty three,

(11:07):
compared to say, four years ago. There has to be an additional or
a new viewpoint of the United States. Give us your description of what the
world's opinion of the United States is, if you would look, I do
agree with it. Does who saythat politics is a profession or a job

(11:28):
based on experience? So my experienceis the following. When President Trump was
in office, we had the bestever relationship politically speaking, with the United
States, really the best every relationship. Of course, one of the reasons
what I was that our Prime Ministerand President Trump do approach to major issues
of global politics in a very similarway traditional values. Traditional values fight against

(11:54):
illegal migration, supporting families, noninterference into domestic issues of other countries.
You know. So under President Trump, I think in many places of the
world, the governments were not underattack or we're not under pressure because they

(12:15):
simply complied with what their voters wantedthem to do. And as I talk
to other foreign ministers in the world, you know, they tell me the
same that under President Trump there wasno attack and no pressure on them.
And the only thing what they aredoing and what we are doing in Hungary
is complying with the will of ourvoters. Because you know, I mean,

(12:37):
we have won four continuous elections fourteentwenty two, all of them with
the two third majority, so wehave the most stable government of Europe.
So we have not won our mandateon the lottery. That was decided by
the people, and the people havedecided based on track record, because if
you win four elections in a row, it means that people know what they

(12:58):
can count on, they know ortrack record they are not, you know,
they are not making a blind date. Let's literally, they're satisfied and
happy and they are satisfying episodes.That's that's what democracies for us, you
know, that's why we say thatdemocracy is not liberal. Democracy is democracy,
and regardless of who are governing,you know, whether it's liberalist,

(13:18):
Christian democrats, nationalists, patriots,whoever, democracy is a democracy and that
should be respected, and President Trumphas respected that all over the world.
But I regret to say that thecurrent administration does not respect that. Otherwise
we would not have had to experiencea serious attack or serious attempt to interfere

(13:43):
into our domestic issues in the recentyears, including an attempt to interfere in
our last elections last April. Well, President Biden obviously has other things on
his mind, such as climate change, making sure the LGBT community is appeased,
making sure that women can have abortionsup to birth and beyond. That's
what our president focuses on. Iwant to ask you a question about Putin.

(14:07):
It seems like to me that heshould have won this war in the
space of about ten days. Nowhe's reduced to going and begging for bullets
from Kim Jong un in North Koreaor being propped up by the Chinese.
Has this war exposed Putin and Russiaas a weak nation from a military standpoint?

(14:28):
Well, actually, to be honest, I don't know, because the
news coming from the frontline are sodifferent from one side than the other,
as if it was not the samewar. So the perception spread by the
two sides are totally different, andsince we are not there, I cannot
judge that. What I can judgeis that more than one and a half

(14:50):
years have gone, and during thosemore than one and a half years,
tens or maybe hundreds of thousands ofpeople have died, millions have had to
flee from their homes. So Icare less about what perception is out there
from either of the armies taking partin this conflict. What I take care

(15:13):
more about it is that it shouldbe stopped. You know, it should
be stopped. So these questions areimportant, but but for me, the
number one priority is that the warmust be stopped and the piece should be
made. Well, let me askyou this then as a follow up,
but Prime Minister Orban wants the USto put Trump back in charge because he
thinks Trump can do it. Obviously, the political left in the United States

(15:35):
is pulling out everything it can tostop Trump from becoming president. Trump says,
if he were president, he couldend the war immediately. That's what
we believe in. Do you believethat absolutely? How would he do it?
Absolutely? And we know him soand we know his track record,
and I accompanied my Prime Minister onboth of his personal meetings with President Trump.

(15:58):
I was sitting there in the closedcircle or narrow circle meetings as well.
And as we know him and aswe see his track record, basically
he's the only one who could stopit. And you know, because what
we understand in the neighborhood is afollowing European Union has kind of accepted the

(16:19):
invitation not to use the word provocationby the United States into a race,
name of which is who can supportUkraine militarily. More so, entering into
a competition on behalf of Europe withthe number one superpower of the world regarding
military assistance, that was a stupiddecision, of course, or at least

(16:41):
illogical, let's put it this way. On top of that, what European
Union has not calculated with was thatthis word takes place in Europe. So
European people are dying, the Europeaninfrastructure is being destructed, and the European
economies are losing competitiveness, and andthe more weapons are being delivered to this

(17:02):
war, the longer it will take, and the longer it will take,
the more people will die, andthe longer it will take, the more
destruction will take place. We'll takeplace We Hungarians are the only one in
NATO and one of the extremely fewin Europe who are not delivering weapons.
We are not delivering weapons. Wehave organized, or we have been organizing,

(17:22):
the largest humanitarian operation of the historyof the country ever, the largest.
As I told you, we receivemore than a million refugees. Currently,
there are more than five thousand Ukrainiankids being enrolled in Hungarian schools and
kindergarten gardens and so on and soforth. We encourage the employers to employ
Yeah, so, but what weare not ready to deliver weapons because we

(17:45):
don't want any people, regardless ofwhich side, to be killed by a
Hungarian weapon. We simply don't wantthat. If putin world witness war out
right and take Ukraine and make itpart of Russia and the new Soviet Union,
he'd be very close to Look,our very clear national interest is to

(18:07):
have something between Hungary and Russia.Okay, because we know the lessons of
history. Yes, so therefore weare interested in a souvereign and strong and
democratic Ukraine. You'd like to seeUkraine in NATO. Look, we have
a very clear position in that NATOshould only accept those countries acceptance of which

(18:33):
can contribute to the security of theTransatlantic region. If you ask me the
question whether Ukraine would contribute to thesecurity of ours now, my answer would
be definitely not, definitely not.Folks were visiting with Hungary's Minister of Foreign
Affairs and Trade, Peter Crto.I want to ask you, minister,

(18:56):
maybe here as we wrap up aboutthe last word in that trade Texas and
Hungary actually does engage in some economictrade. You're here visiting with various Texas
officials, are secretaries. They talkabout the economic partnerships and some things that
may be interesting for our Texas listenersabout the partnership our countries have. Well,

(19:19):
first of all, we really admire, we really do admire the economic
successes Texas has reached in the recentyears. And being a politician, I
might say that is not totally independentfrom the political strategies here, right,
So we really really admire the factthat if you were a independent state,

(19:41):
you would be number eight in theworld, almost G seven, almost JU
seven. And we also admire thefact that four of the five quick at
developing cities of the United States areto be found in Texas. Fantastic.
We applaud that we have similar challengesto be faced because you are hit by
illegal migration. We are hit byillegal migration. You do not only have

(20:03):
to fight against migration, but youdo have to fight against the mainstream to
be able to fight against migration.This is the same in Hungary. We
have be at offense at our border. We have deployed army, we have
deployed border guards. We have stoppedtwo hundred seventy five thousand illegal migrants last
year at our southern border, whichis the external border of the European Union
and the Shangan area in the meantime. But why I'm here today is the

(20:26):
fact that we are signing a contractwith Axiom Space. We are the first
country, were the first state entityto sign such a contract with Axiom in
order to make to ensure the spaceflight for our next research astronaut who is
gonna carry out ex explorative activities andtasks on the International space stations. So

(20:49):
you go into space anytime soon?Well, you know, I rather,
I'm a conservative person. I'd liketo be I like to be within like
thirteen kilometers of range of the Earth. Let's pull this way, so forty
three thousand feet. You know,that's that's my maximum way. So our
next research astronaut we'll have a spaceflight and thirty days to be spent on

(21:11):
ISSS somewhere between the end of nextyear and beginning of twenty twenty five,
and Axiom will ensure the space flight. So today we are signing the contract
about that in Houston, and wehave a strong cooperation the space industry.
Because you might ask me how itcomes at a small country in Europe is
active in space? Is that asci fi or what? No, it's
not because one of the extremely fewpositive consequences of the communist dictatorship is our

(21:37):
tradition in space industry. Why becauseduring the comac on times, for some
reason, under the framework of thistotally artificial sharing of labor, Hungary got
the space industry. We don't knowwhy, but that was a dictate from
Moscow. We have to build withspace industry, so we are building on
that as well. As a wrapup question, I'm just curious you talk
about migration, mass migration, anillegal immigration as we sometimes call it.

(22:03):
They're referred to an American now asmigrants because it's a lot nicer term than
illegal immigrants. Do you believe becausewe're called racist when we say this.
Do you believe it is racist fora sovereign country to seek to preserve its
own culture. Why would it be? Why would it be a racist?

(22:23):
You know we have we have thesame approach. We want Hungary to remain
as a Hungarian country. Let's putit this way. We stick to our
own right, own super and rightto make a decision with whom we are
ready to live together and with whomnot. And we also stick to our
super and right to make a decisionwhom we want to allow to enter a

(22:47):
territory of country and whom not.This decision must not be made somewhere outside
of the country. That must bemade by those who have the authorization from
the people. We are faced,of course, with a similar accusation of
being racist for preserving the country asit is. But I mean, come
on, this is our responsibility.This is what we get as an authorization

(23:07):
from our voters after the huge outbreakof illegal migration. We want the next
parliament elections by a huge two firmmajority. Why because Hungarian people wanted us
to continue this policy to preserve thecountry as it is. So you know,
the word patriotic means quite something tous. The expression nationalist is unfortunately

(23:30):
now kind of a hostage of thismainstream and politically correct way of speaking.
Although when I visited India last time, I was kind of celebrated in the
right wing media as a true nationalistfrom Europe, and they said it in
a very positive manner because they saidthat for them, nationalists means someone who
considered the interest of his nation first. So, but since we are hearing

(23:51):
the trans Atlantic area and we haveto stick to political correctness to somewhat,
we have to say patriotic. Sobeing patriotic is absolutely the essence of our
government strategy. And as we understoodduring the four years of President Trump stayed
in office that that was kind ofhis let's say anchor as well. Well.
Liberalism is certainly the default position aroundthe world right now, how bad

(24:15):
does left do left wing policies haveto be before the left wing says this
is a complete failure and let's trysomething else. Let's let's trust the voters
and then they will they will maketheir best decision or do I have to
say it? Finally, if youdon't mind, my observation in Europe is

(24:36):
that whenever a patriotic conservative party hasa good chance to win, or whenever
a patriotic or conservative candidate has agood chance to win, he or she
or the party gets such tremendous attacks, you know, just before elections,
and you know, by an accident, two three weeks or a month before
elections, someone pops up, somebody'sbeing arrested, you know, some court

(24:59):
case gets to it, somebody isbeing you know, not allowed to run
on elections. So we know thesestories very well. We have read this
book, as we say in Europe, on many occasions, so we are
not surprised what has been going onin the US. But we really cross
fingers for a democratic race and agood outcome. And we welcome to Texas.
We hope you enjoy your time here, and thanks for speaking with us.

(25:21):
Thank you so much for our kindinvitation. All right, Minister of
Foreign Affairs, Peter Ziarto, andit's been fun speaking with you. Let's
hope that your desires to get thiswar ended come around very soon. Thank
you so much for that happen.Thank you all right. I'm Linn Walley
for my broadcast partner Jim Cargill,and thank you for listening.