Hungary's Judit Varga Takes a Stand for Conservatism

Hungary’s outgoing Minister of Justice visits with Cardle & Woolley, stands up for Conservative Values in the European Union: Judit Varga knows it’s not easy being a conservative occupant of a high office in a country that shares a border with Ukraine. She’s often been attacked for her conservatism and for her support of Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. Jim and I sat down with her in the plush studios of the Texas Public Policy Foundation in downtown Austin.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Planet Logic. Today's episode, Hungary's Udete Varga takes a stand for
conservatism. I'm your host, LynnWoolley. Hungary's outgoing Minister of Justice visits
with Cardle and Wooly stands up forconservative values in the European Union. Udete
Varga knows it's not easy being aconservative occupant of a high office in a

(00:20):
country that shares a border with Ukraine. She's often been attacked for her conservatism
and for her support of Hungarian PrimeMinister victor Orbon. Jim and I sat
down with her in the plush studiosof the Texas Public Policy Foundation in downtown
Austin. Welcome to the special editionof the Cardinal and Wooly Show. Lynn
Wooly here and Jim Cardinal, ofcourse, is the Texas Insider. He's

(00:43):
my partner, and we're pleased andhave the honor to be speaking today with
Udete Varga. I'm happy to behere. How did I do on that?
Yeah? It's fat? That wasthat? All right? Very correction?
Well, welcome first to Texas andthen welcome to all Austin. To
two very different places, almost Texasand Austin. You're in the middle of

(01:04):
a very liberal enclay, in themiddle of a very conservative state. But
I want to ask you about somethingRonald Reagan once said. He said that
the United States was a shining cityon a hill. How do you feel
about Hungary's place in the European Union? Are you, guys, the shining
city of the EU? Definitely?Actually we are. We are quite special

(01:29):
because if you look at the sizeof the country and the population a ten
million, a humble GDP, relativelylow military force, we are. We
know where our position or places inthe world. We don't think that we
are more or less than we areactually matter of wise, but our political
impact is multiplied by our size becausewe are able to successfully proved that conservative

(01:59):
demo can work over time, andeven if it doesn't fit the mainstream,
we survive because our voters, theygave for the first time in a consecutive
term of two serves majority for ourpolicy and this gives us strength. And
this is this is democracy. Andyou are the Minister of Justice, also
in charge for European affairs, andso what what is your job? Is

(02:23):
it similar to the attorney general inthe United States, for example, it's
not easy because there is no onesize fits all systems, I think,
even in Europe, not to mentionthe United States of America. But when
it comes to classical legal issues,yes, I'm in charge for the constitutional
compatibility of the Hungarian legislation and alsoI'm in charge for the partnership with those

(02:46):
other professions like bars, lawyers,public not ais to help them to realize
their interest when it comes to legislation. Although they are completely independent in Hungary,
courts are also completely independent, notonly personally but also systematically instructurally.
They have their own constitutional place basedon the distribution of powers. So me,

(03:09):
as a justice minister, I've hadno rights over courts. I'm only
a partner in the constitution to them. So this is my classical field of
competence. But since Dents nineteen whenI was appointed as a Minister of Justice,
also the European Affairs Coordination came tomy portfolio as a novalty. Actually
in Europe, I'll get started ona political question and then turn it over

(03:31):
to Gym for the next one.But here in Texas under the Biden administration,
we have no southern border. Doyou have borders in Hungary? And
how do you enforce them. Wehave a very important border because we are
the external border for the European Union. It means that if someone coming from

(03:51):
Serbia, which is not a memberto the EU, and enters the border
through Hungary, then he or sheis immediately in the paradise. I am
saying this because the European Union isa beautiful common free trade area. It's
a customs union. There are fourfreedoms freedom of good services, capital and
persons. So once you are allowedto enter this free area, you are

(04:13):
free to move wherever you want.This is why our responsibility is much higher
than just for an average member statewho is not the external border. And
we have the obligation under European lawto check and control the mass illegal migration
because only those are allowed to enterthe European Union based on the Union rules,
who are by law entitled to enter. And here comes our problem because

(04:36):
in Brussels we have a pro migrationopen border policy which tries to pressure those
member states who are not the sameline on this migration policy to live those
controls at the borders. And wehave this conflict not only politically but also

(04:56):
legally. In twenty fifteen, whenHungary faced an unprecedented mass migration pressure at
the southern borders. It was August, late August. We set up a
real physical protection. This is afence which is functioning pretty well. It's
cost a huge amount of money.You built a fan, We've built a
fense. And what year again,it's a huge fence. What year again?

(05:20):
What year? It was twenty fifteen. We started recently, quite recently,
and since you know, twenty fifteen, we have a nice amount of
evidence that it is able to protecton land the European borders against mass illegal
migration. And not only physical fenceis there in Hungary, but also a

(05:43):
legal system which is there to protectthis Shangan area from you know, unwanted
mass illegal migration. Well, I'mwondering, since the Charlie Hebdo incident happened
in France some years ago, doyou have a big problem with terrorism right
now in your country. It isnot politically correct in Brussels to talk about

(06:05):
this dimension of the mass illegal migration, but let's talk about it. I
myself, I was in Brussels intwenty sixteen, March twenty second and the
subway was exploded and also the airport. I was very close also living with
my family there, and the shockI experience I will never forget. And
the shock was even greater when Italked to my fellows, the Western European

(06:29):
colleagues, and they said, oh, it's not a problem. And you
know, as a Hungarian who cannotjust get used to terrorism in Europe,
it was completely unacceptable for me.And I said, don't you feel sorry
for your country, for your nation, for the future of a nation,
because it proved that all across thecontinent in recent years there were individual and
also attacks committed by groups of terroristswho has a real migration background. It

(06:57):
is a matter of fact, butno one talks about it. Of course,
Hungarians are talking about it because theystill have a freedom of opinion in
our Hungarian media and also in politicaldiscourse. It's not the case invest in
Europe, unfortunately, because there's ahuge media pressure for political connectness. So
I think Hungarian society has a consensusthanks to several consultation with the nations,

(07:24):
thanks to referend on migration, thatit is a threat to European culture,
It is a threat to your toour Christian heritage, to our values,
and irrespective of the narrative. Thefacts are very talent. There are parallels
societies evolving and those countries of Europewho are opening up their borders for mess

(07:45):
illegal migration, and unlike US,Central Europeans, especially Hungarians, they cannot
answer already the first question, whichis better we do want to live with
you? They can only answer thesecond question how we got to live together
in Hungary thanks to your very soberand very bold and honest policy on migration,

(08:07):
which is very close to the citizenseveryday needs and citizens position. We
still can answer the first question dowe want to live with those messages of
people who are coming from a differentcultural progrant, who don't want to integrate,
who don't keep the same culture andother rules. Then they say no,
sorry, this is our human rightto decide with whom we do want

(08:30):
to live with, and our problem, our legal and political problems are starting
here because unfortunately in the European Unioncurrently migration laws can be decided by qualified
majority, so even if a coupleof member states from Center Group are completely
refusing the proposal, it is stilladopted and still effectively you know we are
we have to comply with those rules. And here comes the constitutional problem because

(08:56):
our constitution is there obliging the governmentbeing responsible for the nation, being responsible
for our cultural identity and constitutional identity. And the conflict is so big that
only political position can serve it up. And I do believe that the next
European elections, which are upcoming intwenty twenty four, will make a shift
in this because as long as wehave a progressive, promigration liberal majority in

(09:18):
the European Parliament, there's no hopethat the institutions we work more in line
with the sovereign interests of the memberstates. And this is what I would
like to work on in the nextmonths. Well, we'll get into that
in a minute, because you havestepped down as the Minister of Justice.
Still going to call you madam ministeruntil the end of the months. Too

(09:41):
okay to run for the European Union. But your country, the European Union
and the United States, we havethe same similar problem, not only in
the change of our society, inour moral norms, but this whole idea
of immigrant ration as I understand it. In Eastern Europe, which is where

(10:03):
your country of Hungary is located,it's primarily and predominantly Muslim, immigrants that
have got to be changing your culture. So number one, I want to
ask you, because you mentioned youbuilt a wall. Do walls work?
Number one, they work? Andnumber two talk about the change and the

(10:24):
onslaught of the immigrants wanting to dramaticallyif that is the case, change your
culture. You know, there areparallels societies existing in Western Europe and if
you go to the Scandinavian countries,even politicians in disputes in the in the

(10:45):
parliament, they name it that thereare certain parts of cities where local authorities
don't dare to enter because there arealready different rules okay in place. Well,
this uh is why I never increaseother countries for their choices. We
only expect respect because in Hungary weare in the Carpathian Basin. We've always

(11:07):
been a corridor between west and eastor east and west, and we always
order with Ukraine, which and weare ordering with And this is another point
which I would like to mention nature. So we have a different experience in
history about mass migration. We alwayshad to defend European borders and we always
paid with our blood for this beautifulsecurity of Europe, where from example,

(11:31):
western countries are profiting and if somebodyis going through the border, they won't
want to. They don't want tostay in Hungary. They want to had
to boil into London to other betterparts of Europe. And when mayors in
Belgium and complaining about secondary migration,they should realize that they should help us
in our protection efforts. Because theless migrants go through the border, the

(11:54):
less problem with secondary migration. Theyend up in other parts of Europe.
This is very logical. This isChris are clear about Ukraina. Since the
outbreak of the war, Hungary hasshown the fullest solidarity towards the real refugees
because this is a real refugee situationhas been massive series since the since the

(12:15):
last February when the war broke out, one point five million refugees across the
border from from Ukraina. Not allof them remains in our stays in our
country because our language is very verycomplex, and they are heading towards other
countries and they have better chances inthe labor market thanks to the language relative
relativity with Slavic countries. One pointfive millions in a country with a population

(12:41):
you said of ten millions, Yeah, this is yeah, the entrances,
the entrances, the statistics, weshowed full solidarity. We did our best.
The nation moved with one heart,We moved with one hand. Charity,
organization, state or treaties. Wemade a lot of concession in the
effective law to make it much easierfor them to if they want to have

(13:03):
a job or a residence permit,or enroll their kids into kindergartens. We
make it possible. The exact numberof those who stay in our country is
not as high as the entrances,as I said, because of different reasons.
You can easily find a job ina Slavic country because of a language,
a couple of months to work inan office in Hungary, many years

(13:24):
to learn the language, to integrateyourself. And but this is the individual
choice. But it's not up tous. We provide the facilities, we
provide the opportunities, and here wecan make a clear difference that free Hungarians.
We have heart. It's not againsthumanity, it's not against those who
are suffering. When we are talkingabout migration, because when there's a real

(13:46):
refugee situation, our next door countryis a country at war. It's crystal
crew that those who are coming fromthere, they are fleeing a war.
But those who are coming from thesouthern borders, they are already marching through
many, many peaceful countries, mostof them are economic migrants. And we
effectively, thanks to our new laws, which is attacked by Brussels, we

(14:07):
manage to set up hot spots,which means that far away from European borders
and territory, we can make thedistinction whether it is a real asylum situation,
so those who apply they can bedecided well before European borders whether they
can enter or not. And thisis actually an idea of so some of

(14:28):
the Europeans thought about talking to PresidentBiden about this, and it would be
nice and some ideas, because that'snot the way we do it here.
Let me ask you about the UkraineWar. I wonder how important it is
to the EU first of all,to win it. Well, let's put

(14:50):
this other way, how important shouldbe this for the U to ask for
peace because we see that every effortsexcept back the Hungarian one is pushing towards
the escalation, not the escalation,towards escalation of the conflict, sending more
and more weapons. First, Europeancountries days sent halmits, then they sent

(15:13):
non lethal weapons, then they sendletal weapons than they are sending chanks.
Where is the end of the hurricanes? Got airplanes? Now? Well,
this is where I'm coming from.It seems like, especially Joe Biden,
and I don't know if the EUis doing this too, but it seems
like we're slow walking the war.That Biden is giving just enough to keep
it going, and then when thatruns out, just enough more to keep
it going. And it seems likemillions of people may die because of this

(15:37):
policy. This is why we saidright from the beginning, if on the
head of Germany we had still amiracle, a Chancellor mercle and in the
United States we had we had misterTrump, maybe things wouldn't be like this
today. So this is this ismy very short answer to this issue.
I often feel this very unfair thattoday only what the kind and Hungary is

(16:02):
asking for peace in the world whenit comes to those countries who are actually
dealing with this question of war,because many parts of the world doesn't really
think about this war. If youlook at Africa or other parts and there
is this kind of pro war trendwhich will cost more blood and the Hungarians.

(16:25):
We are not far away from thewar. Hungarian citizens are falling in
the front because in Transcarpatia, whichis the neighboring region between Hungary and Kronas
or some parts of Ukroina is inhabitedby Hungarians for historic crisions, one hundred
and fifty thousand Hungarians are living inthis area. They are taken to the
front and we lost Hungary our lives. So for US, war and peace

(16:49):
really is a tangible issue. Andthe Hungarian vote, Hungarian citizens and Hungary
nation, big majority of them,they don't want to have this war.
They want to have a peace.It is not our war. So what
we can do that to be highlightedevery international flora b it's the un BE,
it's NATO that hey, guys,we should think about ceasefire and peace.

(17:10):
This is the only way to stopthe bot shell. Well, I
think everybody would agree that Vladimir Putinis no angel. He's not a nice
guy. But based on Joe Biden'spolicies, it seems like this war could
go on for a long long timeand we're getting close to one hundred and
fifty billion dollars range. If it'simportant to the EU to win this war.

(17:37):
Can they put more money in becausewe're running well, we're thirty two
trillion dollars in debt in America rightnow, thirty two trillion dollars in debt,
and Joe Biden said last week we'rerunning out of out of small ammunitions
bullets to send over there. JoeBiden has also depleted our strategic oil reserve.

(17:57):
So if President en Payne were todo something provocative right now, the
world would be in trouble, wouldn'tit. Well, I always respect other
nations democratic choices, so I thinkit's in the hand of you Americans and
to decide or to judge on thispolitical position. And presidential elections are approaching,

(18:21):
so it's a nice momentum to formulateyour opinion about it. What I
can tell you it's it's only theHungarian position and some reference to European position.
The problem today with European leadership isthat we lost all those brave and
great political characters as heads of statesin Europe who can make real politics.

(18:45):
These are newcomer philosophics or or personswho are so vulnerable to the pressure of
the media and the engeo positions orany kind of external non national interest and
this is now European politics. Thisis why Europe completely lost the control over

(19:07):
its own foreign policy. They arefollowing trends, they are following pressure,
and there are just a few likemy Prime Minister who has the bravery and
a very strong democratic legitimacy to standon our own feet as Hungarians and always
position ourselves based on our own interestsand not you know, following others instructions.

(19:33):
This is I think he here whatwill be the future of this whole
war, whether we see new politiciansemerging from other nations to think about first
day in own nation, and justnot to be misunderstood, we are members
of many alliances. This is alsothe NATO. Although we have different position,

(19:53):
we never hindered those alliances to movethe way they wanted to move.
A majority, so we supported thedecisions. However, we would have had
different tools how to react to thisaggression, how to react to this conflict.
Perhaps America's number one political media stargot fired a few months ago,

(20:19):
a couple of years after he broughthis show to Hungary and Tucker Carlson and
did long interviews with your Prime Ministerand after that he was criticized roundly by
the political left, as as werePrime Minister Urbon and you as well.
How did you, how did howdid Tucker Carlson coming to Hungary and doing

(20:44):
that documentary? How did that affectyou? You personally and your country?
We were very happy that team washere. Actually, my purpose of this
visit is also to make friendships andto make alliances with American conservatives, because
we could mutually be beneficial for eachother and mutually reinforce our actions. And

(21:07):
Hungary is a little country comparing tothe huge power of the US, but
still we can be a little laboratory. How to react to the challenges of
the twenty first century, the migrationyou've had, You've had criticism, even
people have accused your Prime minister ofauthoritarianism? Is that true? How do
you answer those critics? You know, this is politics and it is if

(21:32):
you look at the success of thisnational conservative government and politics in Hungary since
Tudents in ten. Despite all theattacks, all the small campaign coming from
from Brussels or from from international liberalism, we still go strong. So thank
you very much. We are happywe got We know our strengths and our

(21:53):
primary principle is to be aligned withtheir nation's interests and demands and first.
This is how, for example,mister Trump and the Prime Minister Orban first
met, and this will the firstsentences. According to urban legend, mister
Trump said America first, mister Orbansaid Hungry first. Well, we got
on really well because we have thesame principles. I cannot imagine a country

(22:15):
that doesn't put its own interest first, because if you become weak, you
can't perform on the world stage.Speaking of that, Trump President Trump,
former President Trump says that if hewere reelected, he could in the Ukraine
war. And I don't know,two days, maybe twenty four hours,

(22:36):
twenty four hours, yes, isthat possible. It's not me to decide
on the time line. Good answer, Well, I do think that already
the initial position about war and peace, if it's basically changes. It's not
a matter of time, but theintentions which matters. So I do hope

(22:56):
that the peace process will be morepopular in the coming months, or the
peace position, because this is theonly way how we can stop this this
cruelty, because there are thousands,hundreds of thousands dying on the front.
But if I may just get backto this position or what you just refer

(23:18):
to that we are criticize as authoritarians, etc. You know, I have
a T shirt of a football clubwhich is for the Soupnists in Europe.
And of course those who play ina different club they hate us or they
run small campaigns every day against Soit doesn't matter what kind of language they

(23:40):
use. The only thing is thatwe have to focus on our mission.
And if we don't want to hurtanyone, we just would like to first
respect ourselves. If you don't respectyourself, how do you can expect others
to respect you? Exactly? Andwe need to be fully in line with
the needs of a citizens. Sothis is how we'll build up our position.
We don't import international products BLM whatever. We always build up our products

(24:07):
based on our own needs and ourinterest. And this is the product which
I bring to process and I representat the negotiating table. This is the
line of a policy for international liberalism. You know, this is visa verza.
And then don't care about the superianinterest. They don't care about the
national identity. They import international thingswhich doesn't doesn't resonate in our society.

(24:30):
This is the problem. Actually acouple of things I'd like to ask you
about before we let you go.And I know you've got some fun plans
in Austin, Texas for the restof the afternoon, but I want to
ask you about NATO for just amoment. Year of course, a member,
yes, and what are your thoughtslessly we used to added the new

(24:52):
member, and now our president istalking about at some point, not during
the course of the war, butat some point adding Ukraine to that.
Is that something that your country supports. There is an overarching I think general
support from the U member states,and we are members of the club.

(25:14):
But the recent decision was very rational. I was also listening to the news.
It's not my portfolio actually because it'sa foreign minister, so I wouldn't
speak on his behalf. But inthis war situation, there was a I
think rational decision made in Vilnius,because that would lead to more escalation if
more precise timeline would have been given. This is very important to say.

(25:41):
Do you think that Vladimir Putin regretsgoing into Ukraine because he could he could
end up losing Crimea too. Youknow, it's it's his business to decide
and to make this risk assessment.Let's say there must be a reason for
him. For us Hungarians, wehave nothing to do with this conflict.

(26:02):
The only thing is to determine ourcountry's interest in light of this conflict which
is happening in our very very neighborhood. And right after the war broke out,
we had a very thorough not Paul, but you survey about Hungarian position,
and the overvaluing majority of Hungarian householdsare against the war. They are

(26:26):
asking for peace, and this iswhy the government responsibility is to be in
line with this position. And whenit comes to, for example, energy
supplied or security of energy supply,you have to understand that eighty percent of
our guest supply comes from Russia forHungary, for us, this is an
essential industrial and survival question. It'snot political, not ideological, it's just

(26:51):
a matter of fact. Gym.One quick follow up, and I know
you've got a question qued up here, but it seems to me that this
war is not going to end untilVladimir Putin believes it is in his best
interests for the war to end.What can we do to make it in
his best interest in the war,I think the United States of America may

(27:12):
have much more information about what youcould do with this good answer. Folks
were visiting with you, did Varga, the Justice Minister for the Nation of
Hungry. Madame Minister, let's pivota subject matter a little bit. You've
been known to be an advocate ofconservative family values and so forth. You're

(27:33):
the mother of three. We herein America have been going through a lot
lately with our education system, theLGBTQ community, which I imagine you're a
little bit familiar with as it's becominga worldwide phenomenon. But the issue of
how children are raised in a familysetting, I think is something that's under

(27:56):
attack or around the globe, certainlyhere in the United States and with things
developing over in Europe as well.You're a champion for this. Give us
some perspect of what you're dealing withover there and the importance of the family
values. Wow, that's really reallya huge passion under which we are actually

(28:18):
working and protecting our children because thismainstream is pro LGBT gender mainstream also hit
Europe, and the mainstream is standingin line, and they are actually attacking
those countries who are not standing inline, and they are threatening us with
cutting us off European funding, cuttingus off from internal market opportunity. So

(28:41):
it's getting serious. What happened intwenty twenty be inserted into our constitution as
a preemptive action. Actually the rightof a child to his or her sex
adverse. This is a right inthe constitution. You believe in science,
and we believe in in biology,DNA, chromosomes and all the same.

(29:03):
And I often, you know,when I'm questioned in interviews liberal interviews about
this, I said, let's getback to this issue when we can talk
to a man for him or her, not a woman and a father,
and the man was necessary to beborn, So this is actually a biological
fact to answer. But I wouldn'tgo into this direction. In Hungary,

(29:26):
we we are a free state basedon the fundamental rights and respect for fundamental
rights. Nondiscrimination is also protected byconstitutional, civil and criminal levels. So
every private individual in the country theyleave the way they chose to live and
it is fully respected. Our PrimeMinister, who is often attack now with

(29:47):
a lot of bad things, hehimself fought thirty five years ago for these
rights of these people. We arecompletely free state. What's going on now
is it's actually another right, theright of the parent to determine the education
of the child, because there aremany hours in a day and our children
are not with us, and asa state, we are responsible to set
the framework where those parental rights arealso guaranteed. And you mentioned the trend

(30:11):
what you have or the situation.What you have here in the US.
We are lucky because what happens hereten or twenty years after happens in our
countries. Because this is the thetrend of the world. We are copying
many, many things. And therecipe how to be successful as conservative politics

(30:32):
one is to reveal in time theintentions of the left and shouter they loud.
The more you know that you hitthe nerve. This is now happening
because we had this preemptive action inour constitution and also in our underlying laws
how to guarantee the right of theparent to be in control of the education

(30:52):
of what the child is getting.And the funny thing is that we are
still attacked by the European Commission,which is fully pro LGBT as an idology,
attacks us on a basis of freedomof services. So they say that
allegedly the Hungary and law is againstthe four Freedom of the European Union,
although based on the treaty is whatwe sign up when we join the club.

(31:14):
They say that the education is anational domain, the national sovereign is
free to determine the education. Andthere is also the Fundamental Rights Charter of
the European Union which says in Articlefourteen that it is the exclusive right of
the parent to determine the child's educationin line with his or her philosophical,
educational and the religious convictions and alsobased on national law. So actually we

(31:38):
are just complying with the European FundamentalCharter, and still thanks to this big
political lobby, we are constantly attacked. When the law was adopted, I
was in charge for it as ajustice minister, and other ministers from European
countries they didn't even ask for thetext in English of the law. They

(32:01):
already had their headlines in the newspaper. And you were in charge as minister
of justice. Yes, I mean, of course it came from different ministry,
but as a compatibility, but legislation, constitution, compatibility human rights.
Do you have lots of lawsuits inyour country like we do here in America,
we have a lot of such policy. We have, of course many

(32:21):
lawsuits, but our main political lawsuitsin this respect are rather between the European
Union Court and Hungary as a state. Because they have this tool in the
European Club. If they think thatnational law is not in harmony with European
standards, they have the right tosue us. It is very sweating the
argumentation. What they have they havenow. But have you in the United

(32:43):
States here the last year or two, we have a political party called the
Democrat Party that says they cannot definewhat a woman is. Are people in
Europe aware of this? I sawthe Metal documentary and just saw it quite
recently. It was really good.And when things like this come out about
a significant part of the leadership ofthe United States government, it's got to

(33:08):
seem curious, to say the least, What do foreigners or Europeans think about
the United States when we're going throughsuch curious discussions. Again, you know,
we are observing what's going on.It's not all right to judge with
concern. I imagine, like yousaid, it may come to your country

(33:28):
death. When we are observing,we draw the consequences for our own interests.
And I'm sorry to say, butyour your experience, which is a
bad experience, is helpful for usbecause we can prove us or we don't
want to see jack queens in ourkindergartens. You don't want to see those
like what's going on in Canada thatthe parent is not able to stop the

(33:52):
hormone treatment of anodola assent literally literally, I'm tempted to ask if anybody in
Hungary drinks bud Light. Bud Lightin our country, bud Light is being
shunned as a beer because of amarketing ploy using a transgender and it has

(34:12):
almost destroyed the brand. We don'thave a lot of time. Are you
familiar with Victoria Sir dult, noHungarian journalist. I probably am not saying
it anything close to it correct comingfrom the left to the right, oh,
from the far left. Uh.She's talking about a citizen who was

(34:32):
also a citizen of the United States, George Soros. Oh, and she
says he's been a convenient boogeyman.Oh my god, how much how much
mischief does George Soros do in yourcountry? And is it is it comparable
to the amount of mischief he's donein this country because it is considerable here.

(34:54):
Well, do you have an extrahour for my answer? But thanks
to our honesty towards our voters,Hungarians are well aware of who this guy
is or this person mister Shores.But I'm much more sophisticated not to start
my speeches in Western Europe with hisname. I'm starting to describing the situation,

(35:17):
and I say, I don't thinkit is fair that despite the fact
that in Hungary there is a flourishingcivil society with sixty thousand registered civil society
organizations ranging from animal protection to localinterest representation, but only handful of them,
just a dozen of them who arevery loud on a political scene.

(35:38):
And these are Homnest International, HassinkiCommittee, Transparence International, all those networks
who are very very close to opensociety foundation structures. So there's not a
novelty already for the average Hungarian citizenthat these engines are not the nice civil

(35:59):
society. They have political mission,and our task as politicians is just to
name it and to make awareness raisingin the society that just because they have
the costume of an energy of humblecivil society organization, they still have a
very very strong and aggressive political agenda. And let me ask you about that

(36:20):
aggressive they in America, they takeno prisoners. They are aggressive. They
do not stop civility as going outthe window or are you seeing the same
thing? I would be theoretical inthis aggression. Let's say, because just
because they have a lot of money, and with this lot of money,
who's coming from the open society network? And I don't follow the person at

(36:42):
the end of this whole network,but just because they have a lot of
tools at their disposal to make animpact on society, to make an impact
on democratic choices, I think it'snot fair from them to hide behind the
neutrality scenes of the civices sty Sothis is why I always say, if
you want to influence politics, youhave to enter the ring. You give

(37:06):
and you get slaps in your face. It means you have to comply with
transparency rules, with very strict partyfinancing rules, and you have to reach
a threshold to get into the NationalAssembly. And then you rightly say that
I'm representing some part of the societyjust because you have a lot of money,
nice Twitter accounts, nice publicity,because you have a lot of money
and personal it does not, youknow, gives you the right to speak

(37:30):
on behalf of the citizens. Andwe have a recent huge scandal. Maybe
it reaches also the attention here becausein the recent election in twenty twenty two,
the sort of April our opposition actuallygot a lot of funding from the
US Action for Democracy funding organization,allegedly very close to liberal wings and it

(37:53):
is completely forbidden in Hungary because basedon party financing rules in Hungary, you
are not allowed to get any funding, anypenney from external donors, be it
legal or natural possess. And itwas the case now that great investigation is
going on because that was an externalattempt to influence democratic elections democratic procedures in

(38:14):
Hungary. Well, foreigners are notsupposed to meddle in American elections either.
The left here will tell you thatRussia hacks in and to our computer systems
and influences our elections. But BarackObama was very happy to take money from
anywhere he could get it, andprobably a lot of his donations were illegal

(38:36):
foreign donations seas included. Yeah,we probably are about out of time.
Let me ask my final question.You're in Austin, Texas, sort of
a liberal enclave in a conservative state, but you were in Dallas. It's
the same thing there. But you'rehere to visit the folks Greg Sindelar and

(38:59):
all the people here at the TexasPublic Policy Foundation, and you've met with
Kevin Roberts. I believe that theHeritage these are two of the greatest organizations
in America as far as preserving ourfreedoms, our constitutional rights. What have
you learned from these organizations that ourrecipe works because politicians are going and coming,

(39:23):
but institutions remain. So it isvery important to build connections between institutions.
We also have, of course smallerthink things like these big heritage foundations.
But irrespective of our size, ifwe do believe in our case,
we can mutually be beneficial for eachother. And I my greatest lesson drawn

(39:47):
today or these days was that irrespectiveof the history recruits, how you ended
up with your with your statements.That and in a connection between state central
administration and the member states like theUnited States of America's Free States, the

(40:07):
same problems arise when we had inthe European Union that we have a centrum
an administration which is completely taken hostageby Jews and idology completely detached from the
reality of the member states, althoughthe Europeanion has never been a United States
of Europe, so different origins,but the same political problems concerned as consequences.

(40:29):
This is very valuable experience for usand for our case, and we
do think that there might be anew Western consensus. What we think it
is important for our future and thesegreat conservative friends can be helpful also for
our European campaign. Let me askat tension or real quick just for perspective.

(40:51):
The Department of Justice in the countryof Hungary, not specifically generally,
how many people work in the Departmentof Justice. Approximately seven seven hundred,
so a good number that you're responsible. And number two you have come.
I used to work on Capitol Hill, you used to work in the European
Parliament. You're said to be ona meteoric rise. What's in the future

(41:15):
for Udit Varga. Actually, Iwill be chairing in the Hungary and National
Assembly the European Affairs Committee, becauseI'm also a member of the Parliament in
Hungary, an elective member, andI will be heading the Nationalist for the
European elections for my government party fides. So this is my great challenge and

(41:38):
it has been an honor to servea country as member of the cabinet.
But I think I've done what Ipromised to do, and after four years
it's time for me to be usefulas where We are so pleased to have
you visited in America and especially Austin, which could use some of your wisdom,
and we hope that that you're theremainder of your visit here is very

(42:00):
productive and god speed. Thank youvery much, gentlemen, it was a
pleasure for me. Thank you.Mane all right. Hungarian Justice Minister Yudete
Varga great pronunciation. Thank you.May I do my bed, Thank you,
and that's the That's it for thisspecial edition of the Cardinal and Wooly
Show. Be logical and you're eitheran insider or you're not. I'm Jim

(42:20):
Cardinal. Thanks for joining us.