May 26, 2023 • 55 mins
John Wayne was a staunch conservative whose views were as repudiated by the political elites of his own day as they would be today. On Wayne's 116th birthday, Lou Ann Anderson of Political Pursuits and Lynn Woolley of Planet Logic take a close look at The Duke's stand on the issues and imagine what he would be saying now, were he still with us. Our source material comes from a May 1971 interview with Playboy in which Wayne did not mince words. You'll be astonished to discover how much of what he said then still is relevant in today's supercharged political environment. Here's what John Wayne would say...
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Episode Transcript
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Greetings and welcome to this collaboration,a special collaboration today between Political Pursuits,
the Podcast and Planet Logic. I'mlou Anne Anderson and joined here today with
my buddy Lynn Wooly, also knownfrom Talk thirteen seventy in Austin, the
Cardle and Wooly Show, heard sevento nine am Monday through Friday. Lynn
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and I are excited to have youhere with us as well, because today
we are celebrating. We are celebratingthe life of Marion Michael Morrison. Does
that name sound familiar? Ah mayring a bell here or there, but
mister Morrison was more commonly known asone John Wayne. Today would have been
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John Wayne's one hundred and sixteenth birthday. He was born on this day,
May twenty sixth and nineteen o seven. And this is something the kind of
a project that Lynn and I havetalked about for years, and we just
finally decided that today, in honorof the Duke's birthday, we needed to
do this. And what we wantedto do was go through and talk about
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an interview that John Wayne did withPlayboy back in May of nineteen seventy one.
You may all remember in the seventies. You know, there was always
the joke of oh, you know, I don't look. I don't get
Playboy for the pictures. I getit for the articles. Well and all
actuality. They had some pretty goodarticles back there. They would do long
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form interviews with people, and Imean there really was some interesting content.
And so, who is it inour interview today, Lynn, who is
the author of that? Well itwas a guy, but the name of
Richard Warren lewis a contributing editor.And I'll say this, you know,
in being a young male at onetime, and I'm still half of that
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now. But there were three interviewsthat Playboy did that made a lot of
publicity. One of course, wasthe famous John Lennon interview where he went
through and gave his version of whowrote what Beatles song and how the Beatles
got along and that That interview hasgone down as a classic. And then
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there was, of course the famousI Have Lusted my Hard interview, which
was with Jimmy Carter and no,no, no, no, no,
no, no no no that Carter. Yeah, yeah, okay, yes,
yes it was. It was JamesEarl, to be exact. And
then let's call this what would JohnWayne say. And the thing that is
so interesting about that we don't haveto wonder what John Wayne would say about
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today's politics and the seemingly crazy thingsthat are going on in today's world.
Because when you go back and lookat this interview and I printed out it's
why twenty three pages twenty three pageslong. Basically other than the LGBTQ stuff,
they pretty much touch on almost everythingthat's causing controversy in today's work,
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from cancel culture to liberalism and education, to affirmative action, civil rights,
reparations, reparations that's right, welfared, social justice, mobaucracy versus democracy,
no go zones, anarchists, umfighting the administrative state. John Wayne,
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you know, certainly known as apremier actor, and you know, lauded
deservedly for for so many of thosethings. The depth of his thinking and
how I think, Lenn you usedthe word prescient earlier, and absolutely this
was a man who was ahead ofhis time in his think. He was
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a product of his times. Becausewe're gonna go through here and we'll tell
you some quotes, and if you'reshocked, don't don't be, because we're
going to do some quotes and we'renot gonna We're not gonna believe them.
Yeah, here here is something Iwanted to read from the introduction to this.
By nineteen sixty nine, having madethe list of top ten box office
attractions for nineteen consecutive years, Waynehad gross more than four hundred million dollars
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for his studios, more than anyother star in motion picture history. But
because of his uncompromising squareness and hisarch conservative politics, he was still largely
a prophet without honor in Hollywood.So in many ways he was a victim
of cancel culture. Well, hewas too big to fail. You know,
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when you put John Wayne on theback of a horse a horse and
put him in Chisholm, or puthim in Rio Bravo, or put him
in true Grit, people were goingto flock to the to the movie houses.
And you know, unlike maybe Targettoday or bud Light, they won.
They still were really concerned with makinga prophet. And you could not
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argue with John Wayne's box office appeal. And despite him not getting other acclaim
that was due him during his lifetime, I will say that on his seventy
second birthday, which was literally weeksbefore he died, he was awarded the
Congressional Gold Medal, and then posthumouslyhe was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
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This was on June ninth, nineteeneighty. That was done by President
Jimmy Carter. Remember that John Waynedied on June eleventh, nineteen seventy nine,
And some information that came across herenotes that Wayne had attended Carter's inaugural
ball in nineteen seventy seven as amember of the loyal opposition, as he
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described it. He also was innineteen ninety nine, the American Film Institute
named Wayne the thirteenth among the greatestmale screen Legends of Classic Hollywood Cinema.
And then, of course we doknow that that John Wayne, once again
posthumously canceled. Culture came after himbecause the airport they're in Orange County,
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California, is named after him,the John Wayne Airport, and there's a
big nine foot bronze statue of himthat stands there at the entrance. Has
long been a place where, youknow, anytime you flew into that airport
as a tourist, you of coursegot your picture made in front of the
John Wayne statue. But anyway,that is something that the changing of that
name has been something that has beenbrought up on several times, and efforts
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have been made to change the names, and thankfully the Duke and his statue
are still standing tall Range County.Yes, yeah, we're seeing that here
in the shadow of Fort Colossos insteadof Fort Hood as part of this radical
culture cancel. One other little funfact though of this too, before we
move on, is that in twentysixteen, Republican Assemblyman this is in California,
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Matthew Harper proposed making May twenty sixthas John Wayne Day in California.
The resolution was struck down by avote of thirty five to twenty due to
Wayne's views on race and his supportof controversial organizations such as the John Birch
Society and the House Unamerican Activities Committee. So with that little backdrop, let's
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move into what exactly what would JohnWayne say? I thought the opening question
that was asked by Playboy, andwhen we say Playboy, we are again
referring to the guy who did this, Richard Warren Lewis. The first question,
how do you feel about the stateof the motion picture business today?
We're talking about May nineteen seventy one, he said, I'm glad I won't
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be around much longer to see whatthey do with it. What would John
Wayne think of today's movies sell out? Well, probably so, of course,
he didn't know the concept of CG, so star Wars and things like
that, you know, probably wouldn'tappeal to him all that much. But
I think what we're talking about whenwe asked that question, the state of
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the motion picture business today is thesubliminal content and in some cases, the
outright blatant content of the movies,which is all Marxist in nature. But
he also Wayne was very much abusinessman. Oh yes, he was an
actor, but he was a businessman, and with that he always seemed to
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have an eye on the business sideof the movies. And that's what he
said that, you know, themen who control the big studios today are
stock manipulators and bankers. They knownothing about our business, be it the
business of movies, of making goodmovies, of making content that is aesthetically
pleasing and of some type of artisticvalue. You know. He goes on
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and says that some of the guysremind me of Class fours. Well,
basically, did they do anything fora buck? Absolutely, But he was
talking too about movies being perverted.Now think about nineteen seventy one and how
you thought the movies might be pervertedthen, and then think about what some
of the trash we see on thescreen today. So Playboy asked, what
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kind of films do you consider perverted? Wayne said, oh, easy,
writer, Midnight Cowboy. I'm quotingdirectly now, Midnight Cowboy, a story
about two fags qualifies. But don'tget me wrong, as far as a
man and a woman is concerned,I'm awfully happy there's a thing called sex.
It's an extra something God gave us. I see no reason why it
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shouldn't be in pictures. Healthy,lusty sex is wonderful. And because of
that one statement, much of thepress vilified him as homophobic for having made
that statement, which you know thatprobably was not at all an uncommon sentiment
at the time. I would say, of the people in American nineteen seventy
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one had that cinement and would haveused that terminology, yeah, and the
other and the other percentage, we'veprobably almost sexual. He would not have
believed what you know we have today. And I'm going to say how far
we've come because in some instances.It's how far we've regressed. Nobody wants
to be anybody's in anybody's bedroom.But we do have an interesting situation today
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arising out of this with Target andNorthern Face and Bud Light and Miller Light
and all that. Well, Ithink it's interesting. Something else that he
was talking about with regard to thestudios was that he said, as much
as I couldn't stand some of theold time moguls, these men took an
interest in the future of their business. And I mean he gets here down
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and starts talking about censorship and evenself censorship. He goes on and he
says they had integrity. There wasa stretch when they realized that made a
hero out of quote goddamn gangster,heavy and crime movies, that they were
doing a discredit to our country.So the mobuls voluntarily took it upon themselves
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to stop making gangster pictures. Nocensorship from the outside. They were responsible
to the public. But today's executivesdon't give a damn and their efforts to
grab boxalt grab the box office thatthese six pictures are attracting. They're producing
garbage. But I think the motiveshave changed. I believe that the content
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in today's motion pictures that a lotof people would find objectionable, and certainly
John Wayne would have found objectionable,is now about changing the world into a
more Marxist, more Soviet style oralI don't think that they're as money grabbing
as they are. Look for example, as a television analogy at CNN.
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They don't do anything right if theywant an audience, but they do everything
right if they're trying to promote communismand socialism. I think there's there's there's
legitimacy to that to cause what Waynewas saying and commending the industry for was
their self censorship and the fact thatthey didn't want to be people promoting the
idea of gangsters and you know,people committing illicit acts. Whereas now we
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have a we have a media,we have industries like the movie industries that
are actual advocates for certain types ofbehaviors or certain genres in life. And
so so from that standpoint, yeah, we have people that are pushing that
are promoting ideas that he is backhere actually commending the other people, you
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know, his peers in the industrythat jadas he saw them, that did
feel more of an obligation to producemore more healthy, righteous content for the
public. Have you, as wemove into some of these movies, have
you seen True Grit lately? Yeah? All right, there's a couple of
versions. There's the one later withwith Bridges. Yeah, yeah, first
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Bridge Jeff Bridges almost a complete sceneby seeing remake. The original one was
John Wayne as Rooster Cogburn and Campbelland Campbell in there as well Darby.
Yeah, absolutely, I would putthat as one of my favorite John Wayne
movies, probably probably up there withthe man who shot Liberty Valance. Maybe
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the Searchers, Uh, certainly Hatari. I always like that one ballot of
the Green Berets or the Green Berets. True grit though, I want to
ask you, is in today's world, as as our culture has changed,
is Rooster Cogburn the ideal American man? Depends? So you ask it pretty
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well? For me, Well,you know, I would aspire to be
something like that. And when shelooks him in the eye and she says,
they told me I needed to findsomebody with true grit, and they
told me you had true grit.And he's drunk off his year and he
is, Yeah, but he endsup coming through and it had the emotion
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in it when she falls into therattlesnake pit, for one, and when
he drove the horse to death,so trying to get back so hard on
that horse Towards the end of themovie. Wow, So can you imagine
a scenario where you have a reallyimperfect vessel doing the right things to help
rectify a situation that in many waysseems homeful? Can you hold on just
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a moment. I believe Donald Trumpis on the phone. Yes, that
is Trumpish, isn't it. Yes, very much, that is very much
very trumps Yes. And John Wayneand you know, listening or reading through
this, and you know what Iknow of other interview using things. He
never shied away from the fact thathe himself personally was a very flagged vessel.
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Well and Lewis asked him, wasTrue Grit the best film you ever
made? And he said, no, I don't think so. Two classic
westerns were better, Stagecoach and RedRiver, and the third The Searchers,
which I thought deserved more praise thanit. God, that's a great rock
and roll movie. By the way, do you know why two reasons?
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Number one one of the rock androll bands became the Searchers, right,
and Buddy Holly. One of histwo biggest hits was That'll be the Day,
And of course John Wayne threw outthe Searcher said That'll be the Day
and a great influence on the worlda rock and roll. But he says
the Searchers deserve more praise than itgot. And then he brings up the
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Quiet Man was certainly one of thebest. And then he mentions the long
Voyage home. And then they askedhim, well, which one was the
worst, and he said, there'sabout fifty of them that are tied.
But the way I see it,John Wayne was John Wayne. He might
have been called Rooster Cogburn on thescreen, or he might have been called
a liberty valance on the screen orwhatever, but he was pretty much who
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he was right right. And itwas thought that even the Rooster Cogburn character
was a little bit of a compositeof so many of his character of him
personally as well as many of thecharacters that he had played throughout the decades.
Yeah, and one of the thingsthat's interesting is we go through this,
why were you nicknamed Duke? Well? I was called Duke after a
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dog a very good Airdale out ofthe Baldwin Kennels, and he said,
they didn't think my real name maryonMichael Morrison sounded American enough, so somebody
came up with John Wayne. Ididn't have any say in it, but
I think it's a great name andI liked Also, he talked about that
initially he was positioned as a singingcowboy. The problem was that was that
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he could and sing or play aguitar, and it made those live performances
really, really awkward, and soat a point he said, you know,
I can't handle this. And sohe talks about how the studio went
out and they brought the best hillbillyrecording artist in the country to Hollywood to
take his place, and that forthe first couple of pictures that kind of
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they were having a hard time sellingthis guy, but he finally caught on.
Oh and by the way, thatguy's name was Gene Autry. Yeah,
so he did have a pretty goodlittle run as things got going.
All right, I'm gonna go onover to page seven here because this is
where Wayne gets into some of theliberalism of the day, which, in
all honesty, sounds a lot likesome of the liberalism of our day.
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He's talking about an articulate liberal groupcausing certain things in our country. And
I wonder how the young people whoread Playboy are going to allow these things
to go on. George Putnam,the Los Angeles News analysts put it succinctly
when he quote, what kind ofa nation is it that fails to understand
that freedom of speech and assembly areone thing, and anarchy and treason are
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quite another. That allows known communiststo serve as teachers, to pervert,
to pervert the natural loyalties and idealsof our kids, filling them with fear
and doubt and hate, and downgradingpatriotism and all of our heroes of the
past. We're talking about one ortwo communist teachers there. How many do
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we have today? I was goingto say, and this is remind you,
folks, this is nineteen seventy one, ninety one, same comment,
That same statements can be made todaywith complete and total relevance. Yeah,
there is no question. And Lewissays, you blame all this on the
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liberals. By all this, he'stalking about teaching communism in the schools Wayne
says, well, the liberals seemto be quite willing to have Communists teach
their kids in school. The communistsreal lies they couldn't start a workers revolution
in the United States since the workerswere too affluent and too progressive. So
the commies decided on the next bestthing, and that's to start on the
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schools, start with the kids.And I'll say, in today's world,
they have almost totally taken over ourschools, our colleges, our universities,
and our media. And you knowwho also would concur completely with that and
has spoken in that same point asChris Ruffo, that's done all of the
that's done so much research and everything, you know, working with a Manhattan
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So Chris Ruffo's absolutely amazing talks exactlythis same point that because because economics was
not enough of a catalyst in orderto start some type of revolutionary type type
environment or to foment that that theyhad to turn to race. And then,
yes, they turned to race becausethe workers movement, we're too affluent
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to use a workers movement. Theyturned to race, and and says and
then they are using the schools asa platform by which to promote that ideology.
And Wayne said in the interview,I don't want somebody like Angela Davis
inculcating an enemy doctrine in my kidsminds. Angela Davis one of the most
infamous left wing provocateurs, anarchist,whatever you want to call her of the
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nineteen seventies. And how many AngelaDavises do we have in today's world who
are inculcating these things that you arekids? I mean they have. They
have parts of universities called the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Department that does this
on a daily base. And thenand then Lewis goes through there and he
says, you know, well,you know, Angela Davis says that the
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people that want to take away herteaching credentials are doing so they're actually just
discriminating against her because she's black.And you know, he asked, Wayne,
do you think there's any truth tothat? And he says, with
a lot of blacks, there's quitea bit of resentment with their dissent,
and possibly rightfully so. But wecan't all of a sudden get down on
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our knees and turn everything over tothe leadership of the blacks. Okay,
folks, here comes here comes anotheron the biggie's of this article. That
got all the headlines. Hold ontoyour hat quote. I believe in white
supremacy until the blacks are educated toa point of responsibility. I don't believe
in giving authority and positions of leadershipand judgment to irresponsible people. Irresponsible people
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is what he said. Now,granted he is aiming a lot of that
at the black population, but italso kind of to me. It made
me think of affirmative action, andyou know, his idea, and then
he goes on and he talks about, you know, are you equipped to
judge which blacks are irresponsible in whichleaders inexperienced and in Wayne answers that it's
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not my judgment. The academic communityhas developed certain tests that determine whether the
blacks are sufficiently equipped scholastically, butsome blacks have tried to force the issue
and enter college when they haven't passedthe test and don't have the requisite background.
Well, that comes from not havinga merit based society. But when
you're talking about this type of thing, I mean, nobody wants tests for
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voting, their poll taxes or thingslike that that we're designed to keep blacks
from participating in society. But Ithink what John Wayne was talking about,
I believe in white supremacy until blackpeople have been educated to a point of
responsibility. Now this was what isthis thirty forty years ago? All right?
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So today you have black people whoare sometimes maybe the best intellectuals of
our time, like the late WalterE. Williams, like Thomas Sowell and
Carson. Yeah, Ben Carson.I would point to Tim Scott, who
who has announced for president, hada marvelous speech. Reagan asked Candice Owens,
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who makes just about as much senseas anybody. There's so many.
I mean, we're way past thisparticular time. But I think what he
was trying to say and he justblurted it out and the way he thought
it. But to me, ifyou want to translate that, it's that,
Yes, when people are going toparticipate in our society at the governmental
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or decision making level, they haveto have a certain capacity of knowledge.
And I believe we are at apoint now where the black community as well
as the white community are split onthat. Part of the black community says,
hey, get out there, getthat degree, understand things, and
then you can move into society andbe whatever you can be. The other
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half says nope. If you getif you go to school and you make
good grades, you're acting white.And that is something that has held the
black community back, is that particularattitude. We are one nation at this
point. Now we're very divided rightnow, but as one nation, you
should be able to take your Godgiven talents, improve upon them, either
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in school or by your own experienceor whatever, and compete for any job.
And I think that's where we aretoday. But I do think that
in today's society sometimes if you're aminority, that gives you a leg up.
Well, and that's something that thathe goes on later and says that
he thinks that any black who cancompete with a white today can get a
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better break than a white man.And he said, you know, I
wish they'd tell me where in theworld they have it better than right here
in America. And to a point, there were people that were trying to
ensure that blacks were that you know, their rights were respected and that they
did have opportunity. And so tosome degree he may have been correct.
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But the main thing, you know, I keep going back to that as
much as the supremacy, you know, was a bit of a shocker for
some people, although let's remember theman was born in nineteen o six and
so talk about being a product ofhis time. But nonetheless he's talked about
I don't believe in giving authority impositionsof leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.
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Well, that would say irresponsible blackpeople, crown people. I was going
to sail female. He's saying peoplehe believed in Merrick. We have two
supremely irresponsible people at the top rightnow, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
It has nothing to do with racerjen One of them is a white male,
I would guess, a leader,if not a child of the Jim
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Crow era back when he was firstin Congress, and who's sang the praises
of a ku klux Klan Kleigel whenhe spoke at his funeral. The other
one is a woman. I've neverbeen absolutely certain what Kamala Harris is Ethnically,
she's not. I don't know whetheryou are Jamaican, Jamaican Indian,
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I believe, I believe so.I don't think she's a black person,
but she claims it. But regardlessof that, she's incompetent, as is
Joe Biden unless you subscribe to thetheory that the mental arrangement of Biden's all
is all a farce, and thenhe really knows what he's doing and he's
using that as a cover. ButI think, you know, we've got
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to move back into a meritocracy.And I think what Wayne was saying back
in nineteen seventy one is that wehave to move toward a meritocracy and a
time when all people have totally equalopportunity to be what they will be.
And there are people that are fromthat era. I mean, I would
say Walter E. Williams was fromthat era. Yes, Well, and
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he talked, he goes on andhe talks about blacks in Hollywood and he
says that, you know, ifit's supposed to be a black character,
naturally I use a black actor,but I don't go as far as hunting
for positions for them. He said, I think the Hollywood studios are carrying
their tokenism a little too far,because evidently there was a movement that,
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oh, the blacks were ten percentof the population, so we need to
have ten percent of our workforce beblack. Well, I represented, and
he said. He goes on andhe says, you know, in terms
of like grips or sundmen who areblack. He said, you know,
he doesn't think ten percent of thatpopulation has trained themselves for that kind of
work, so they're not going tobe there well, and they get themselves
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trained to come on in. Andin the world of nineteen seventy one,
it had not progressed to the pointwhere we are now. But I mean,
you know, look, there's thiswhole idea of seeing if we have
ten percent of the people in thecountry or of a certain color or a
certain race, then every institution,every church, every governmental entity, every
school ought to be represented in thatway. That's just not the way society
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works. And I think, Ithink in these days where a guy like
Joe Biden pushes it real heavily.I mean, Kamala Harris was certainly not
chosen for her ability. She waschosen for the boxes that she checks.
Our joint chiefs of staff now beingchosen by the boxes they check. Supreme
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Court nominees chosen for the boxes theycheck. That's what Wayne was decrying.
And I think I can't speak getinto his mind other than this interview,
because he seems to have spoken morefreely here than anywhere else I've ever seen.
But I think he's sort of closeto where I am. People can
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be any race in America. Theycan have any kind of a cultural background
or a background based on having arich family like say George W. Bush,
or come out of a poor familylike say Ben Carson. But the
biggest part of this, the biggestpart of the equation is what do you
want to be? How how baddo you want it? And how much
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are you willing to sacrifice to getyour place, to get to a place
where you can be what you wantto be. And as we move on
through some of this, he alsogoes in talking about the Indians and that,
you know, the interviewer talks aboutfor years American Indians have played in
an important, subordinate role in Wayne'sfilms, and does he feel any empathy
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for them, which it seemed kindof like the implication as you know,
have you exploited the Red Man?And anyway, so Wayne goes on and
he talks about how that he didn'tdoesn't feel that we did wrong in taking
this great country away from them.Our so called stealing of this country from
them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who
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needed new land, and Indians wereselfishly trying to keep it for themselves.
And then you know when he askedif, oh, well, weren't the
Indians, by virtue of prior possession, the rightful owners of the land,
And he said, look, youknow, I'm sure there have been inequalities.
If those inequalities are present affecting anyof the Indians now alive, they
have a right to a court hearing. But oh, by the way,
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what happened a hundred years ago inour country can't be blamed on us today.
And in talking about if the Indianstoday are being dehumanized on reservations,
mind you, this is back innineteen seventy one, he said, which
I love this. I'm quite surethat the concept of a government run reservation
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would have an ill effect on anyone. That seems to be what the socialists
are working for now, to haveeveryone cared for from cradle to grave.
Now, that's absolutely true. AndI'll go back to the words of that
great current day philosopher that you probablyhave heard of, that would be Bill
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Maher, who talks about something thathe calls present ism, and I think
he's absolutely right, and that's whatJohn Wayne is talking about there. You
have to live in the era inwhich you live. And if we turn
around and blame our founding fathers,even though that was a very different time
and people had different attitudes and normswere considered different, especially from what today's
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left wing political correct causes are,we're committing presidism. Under presidism, we
have to go back through history.So we give the land that's now Mexico
back to the Incas and the Aztecsand see who they got it from,
and then see who they got itfrom, and finally try to restore everything
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back to its absolute original owner.Until we get back to the Garden of
Eden. It's not doable. Andin my humble opinion, which is usually
at least semi correct, if yougo in and conquer another country, and
this would maybe the Vladimir Putin adoctrine, I don't know, but if
he goes in and conquers Ukraine,if the Palestinians can conquer Israel, then
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until somebody knocks them off, it'stheir land. Well, and the Indians
at that point in time, evidentlywe're looking for as the Lewis the interviewer
refers to it as that they haddemanded reparations, and Wayne says, what
happened between their forefathers and our forefathersis so far back, right, wrong
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or indifferent that I don't see whywe owe them anything. I don't know
why the government should give them somethingthat it wouldn't give me. Yeah,
well, shades of California. We'llsee how that works out. The billions
of dollars that newsom. I don'tknow what. He may have changed his
mind by now because his poll numbersare going down. But I don't see
(32:37):
how you can give people reparations whohad nothing to do with it. What
about Barack Obama? He certainly isn'tdescended from slaves, right right, Well,
and that's what you know. AndWayne goes on and he's like,
you know, I'm not going togive you one of those. I was
a poor boy, and I pulledmyself up by my bootstrap stories. But
I've gone without a meal or twoin my life, and I still don't
(32:59):
expect the government to turn over anyof its territory to me. Hard times
aren't something I can blame my fellowcitizens for. Years ago, I didn't
have all the opportunities either. Butyou can't whine and belliate because somebody else
got a good break and you didn'tlike these Indians are We'll all be on
a reservation soon if the socialists keepssubsidizing groups like them with our tax money.
(33:22):
M I think he had a strongopinions about socialism. I think he
did. Lewis comes back and says, in your distaste for socialism, aren't
you overlooking the fact that many worthwhileand necessary government services, such as social
security and medicare derived essentially from socialisticprograms evolved during the thirties, And Wayne
(33:42):
says, I know all about that. In the late twenties when I was
a sophomore at USC, I wasa socialist myself, but not when I
left. The average college kid idealisticallywishes everybody could have ice cream and cake
for every meal, But as hegets older and gives more thought to his
and his fellow ends responsibilities, hefinds that it can't work out that way,
(34:02):
that some people will not carry theirload. And then, with regard
to welfare recipients, he says,I believe in welfare a welfare work program.
I don't think a fellow should beable to sit on his back side
and receive welfare. I'd like toknow why well educated idiots keep apologizing for
lazy and complaining people who think theworld owes them a living. I'd like
(34:28):
to know why they make excuses forcowards who spit in the faces of police
and then run behind the judicial sobsisters, I can't understand these people who
carry placards to save the life ofsome criminal, yet have no thought for
the innocent. That doesn't this remindyou of the George Floyd situation Black Lives
(34:49):
Matter, which is, by theway, having all kinds of legal problems
because they have taken the donations thisparticular group that's called Black Lives Matter and
have used it in very shady operations. And the media doesn't want to give
a whole lot of attention to that. But Playboy wants to know who are
these people you're talking about, andWayne says, entertainers like Steve Allen,
(35:14):
who was, by the way,wrote a lot of books. I used
to read some of them. Ididn't agree with a lot of them,
and his cronies who went up tonorthern California and held placards to save the
life of that guy, Carl Chessman, I just don't understand these things.
I can't understand why our national leadershipisn't willing to take the responsibility of leadership
(35:34):
instead of checking polls and listening tothe few that screen. Doesn't that remind
you of our current situation where GeorgeFloyd, who was a street thug,
who had given a counterfeit twenty dollarbill and who was doped up on finnel
and who knows what all else,and yet he's deified absolutely absolutely, and
they go on. I mean,he talks about an attorney, civil rights
(35:55):
attorney, William Kunzler, who wenton to defend the Chicago Seven. I
mean, this guy, he waskind of like somebody's mother. Who comes
to mind, Missus Obama that nevermet a revolutionary or a radical that you
know, they didn't want to getreal involved with. But Kunsler, he
(36:17):
was talking about, how, youknow, making a speech to the black
panthers saying that the ghetto is theirsand then if the police come in,
they have a right to shoot them. And Wayne asked, why is that
dirty, no good son of abitch allowed to practice law, you know,
But it's like the source of thatstatement was that he was talking to
(36:38):
he was talking to a Black Panthersgroup and he was talking about a case
in New Jersey where a bunch ofblacks were urged to kill a white policeman
when they entered the ghetto, andthat there was a story of a white
policeman who was stomped to death inPlayfield, New Jersey. The crowd broke
into prolonged applause when Kunstler was talkingabout this, and Kuonsler pointed out that
(37:01):
after that happened, no white policemanset foot in that black ghetto of Plainfield,
New Jersey, or had since nineteensixty seven. And Wayne talks about
that could turn out to be aterrible thing, you know. He said,
you know, at some point youcould have a bunch of white to
turn out and say, well,if that's their land and this is ours,
they'd better not trespass on it.And he just remarks that that's that's
(37:23):
a bad that's not a good thing. It works both ways, and that's
not good for our society. Herecognized the dangers of segregation. This racist,
homophobic, misogynist that we're hearing aboutin this thing. You know,
somewhere no longer lye. Yeah,he and he talked about Herbert Marcus.
All right, now, that wasa left wing professor, doctor Herbert Marcus
(37:47):
at the University of California at SanDiego. Wayne said he's obviously a Marxist
and says, we will use theanarchist and then they talk. He talks
about the young people at the Chicagoconvention. I think he's probably talking about
nineteen sixty eight, the Chicago DemocraticConvention. They were conned into doing hysterical
things by a bunch of activists.Let me ask you, do you think
(38:08):
Wow, that sound familiar at universitiestoday, where Anne Coulter can't speak without
having a pie thrown in her face, or anybody that comes on a college
campus with a conservative message is shouteddown automatically. And are these kids being
used? Are they taught this bythe left wing professors? Have we not
(38:30):
even heard about random mobs where yes, the same the same anarchists. Are
they pop up in city after cityafter city. They're being bust from place
to place in order to come inhere and foment violence and chaos. Yeah,
(38:52):
he talked a little bit about toomuch tolerance, and I find this
very interesting. Because I think alot of what's going on in our world
today is the overtoleizing of America.But he's talking about police. Remember we've
had to defund the police movement Austin, Texas, where I work on a
Monday through Friday Basis is a greatexample of this. Crime just shot up
(39:15):
in Austin when we started dropping policeand defunding them. And Wayne said,
when they start shooting policemen, thetime has come to start knocking them off.
As far as I'm concerned, Lewissays, what do you mean by
knocking them off? I'd throw themin the can if I could, Wayne
said, But if they try tokill you, I'd sure as hell's shoot
(39:37):
back. I think we should breakup those organizations, make them illegal.
The American people is getting sick andtired of what these young people are doing.
But it's really partly the public's ownfault by allowing the permissiveness that's been
going on in the past fifteen ortwenty years. He talks about then famous
doctor Spock, not the one onStar Trek, but the you attrition.
(40:02):
Yeah, thank you, who Ibelieve didn't want to use corporeal punishment or
anything like that, but too muchtolerance, getting the kids out there to
do the dirty work on campus forthe communist professors, defunding the police before
that was even a thing. Well, and he talks about, you know
(40:22):
that our society is promoted in anythinggoes attitude in every area of life and
in every American institution. Then hegoes on and calls out the media,
saying, look at the completely irresponsibleeditorship of our country's newspapers. By looking
for provocative things to put on theirfront pages, they're encouraging these kids to
(40:45):
act the way they're acting. FakeWe see that fake news. But we
also see that with regard to likethe school shooters, that everybody wants to
become famous, and so we wouldhave all of these school shooters who part
of what you know, when theirmanifestos or their online postings and everything,
you've gotten the sense that the ideathat they're going to get some notoriety,
(41:07):
they're going to get some degree ofperverse acclaim, not realizing that they're not
going to be there to enjoy itbecause they're going to get shot. This
is the crazy thing about that.But you know, when this was done,
and gosh, we're already running allthe time. But when this was
this interview was done, the bigthing going on was Vietnam, and you
(41:29):
had idiots like John Kerry, who'snow the environmental Global Warmings, are throwing
his medals over the fence. You'llremember the other day he showed them at
some event and I guess he climbedthe fence and got them back. But
you may remember the me Lie maskerand Lewis asked him about that. What
about what Lieutenant William Calley did atme Lie? And John Wayne says,
(41:53):
well, I guess there was alittle something to it, because it turned
out that it kind of happened,he said, but I could show you
pictures of what the North Vietnamese andthe viet Cong are doing to our people
over there. That's something that wesee in the media today. Show everybody
what the good guys are doing wrong, but don't show anybody how the bad
(42:15):
guys are really far worse. Alacking of context that yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's playing aside. Thatfits the white right the narrative exactly well,
and that's what he went on totalking about. You know, you're
bringing up stuff that's being debated inthe trials when he was talking about the
media coverage, and he said,what I was in is that even before
(42:35):
the trials, this stuff was evenless proven of a fact, yet the
newspapers printed it anyway. So againhe's making basically an allegation of fake news.
Well, I'm moving over to pagefourteen now, down toward the bottom,
if you've got your script there,where he's talking about politics. He's
talking about Barry Goldwater and the Texan. I take the Texan to London,
(42:57):
Baynes Johnson. He said, Idon't think we ought to make an issue
out of Vietnam because we both knowwhat we're going to probably end up having
to send half a million over there, and that was Goldwater. Well,
if we'd send half a million andwe hadn't had the same rules of engagement
that we had, we might havewon that war. Johnson said, Yeah,
that's probably true, Barry, butI've got an election to win.
(43:21):
So Barry told the truth and Johnsongot elected on a peace platform. And
then, as I remember from myhistory, he said, I will not
run and will not accept another nominationas your president because Vietnam broke him down,
you know, And john Wayne hadwhat has always been called the Colon
Powell documents also doctrines. Also mydoctrine, don't get into war. Just
(43:44):
don't do it unless it's absolutely necessary. If it is absolutely necessary, use
maximum for us and win it quicklywell. And something else though along in
that Line's what they were talking aboutis after they finished talking the Vietnam Johnson
Goldwater, they went on and we'retalking about Nixon, and Lewis asked John
(44:07):
Wayne about, you know, whatdo you think of Nixon's performance since since
you know, the war was windingdown, and he said, I think
mister Nixon is proving himself his ownman. I knew he would. I
knew him and stuck with him whenhe was a loser, and I'm sticking
with him now that he's a winner. A lot of extremist righteous are saying
(44:28):
that he isn't doing enough, ButI think he's gradually waiting in and getting
control of the reins of government,which I found so interesting because to me,
that's talking about fighting the administrative state. And there is a body of
thought out there that is includes peoplelike Roger Stone, people like Bobby Kennedy
Junior, who would also say thatyes, indeed, and that's what Watergate
(44:52):
was about. That Watergate was justanother coup against the president to get him
out of office. Because one ofthe things that was said that going back
to Eisenhower and then Kennedy, thatthey recognized that if you didn't come in
and clear out the administrative state everyfew years, that they would grow to
(45:14):
be too much of a power.Kennedy was assassinated before he had time to
do that. Nixon knew he neededto get that under control, and he
was seeing evidence that he needed toget that under control with what was going
on with j Edgar Hoover and thingslike that, which is why he went
over Mark Felt to become head ofthe FBI because he knew Mark Felt was
(45:37):
nothing but a deep state type person, and who Mark Felt ended up being
known as deep throat. But nonetheless, in his second term, that was
one of Nixon's stated goals was thathe was going to come after the administrative
state. Well, and who didNixon serve under as Vice President, Dwight
D. Eisenhow correct, who wasthe first awareness about the military absolutely industrial
(46:00):
complex? Absolutely yes, And hewatched the whitewash of the Kennedy assassination.
Yeah, And I find this interesting. I'm trying to move fast here,
but on page seventeen towards the bottomabout what made the mood in Hollywood so
fashionable to take a vigorous stand againstcommunism, and Wayne says many of us
(46:22):
were being invited to supposed social functionsor house parties, mostly at well known
Hollywood writers' homes, that turned outto be communist recruitment meetings. He says,
that was actually going on. Iwonder he could never know this because
he passed away a few years afterthis interview was done. How in communism,
(46:43):
socialism, and Marxism would become bytwenty twenty three, right, Well,
and you know, he was vilifiedfor having been part of the In
fact, I think he was theleaders I don't know if it was president
chair, whatever it was, ofthe Motion Picture Alliance for the President Ovation
of American Ideals, which was theHollywood organization that was, you know,
(47:05):
supposedly formed to blacklist communist and communistsympathizers. Well, in all actuality,
that is, there were plenty ofthem out there to be concerned with,
and part of these people's concerns.One of the things that Wayne describes in
parts of the articles was his ownpeople, people that he hired to come
(47:28):
and work on movies that they wouldbe on set, and they were being
harassed. They were being tormented bypeople that were trying to recruit them into
Communism and using very heavy handed tactics, and they didn't appreciate that, and
so you have to wonder how muchof it. Yes, they didn't like
these people's politics, but they especiallydidn't like the politics they were bringing to
(47:51):
the job. Well, there wasa communist infiltration. If you've ever studied
the writings of Whittaker Chambers, ifyou've ever looked at the the Pumpkin Papers.
So many people don't know what thePumpkin Papers are, not going into
it now, but look up WhittakerChambers, look up Pumpkin Papers, and
you'll see some things that were goingon. I want to move on to
(48:13):
page twenty two. I was justgoing to say quickly. He names names
here of people that were communists orcommunist sympathizers, and he also talks about
how they were starting to see thatideology seeking to seep into screenplays and into
projects, and that they didn't likethat. So that advocacy that we were
talking about, while it was notanything that it is now. Wayne was
(48:38):
saying that he was seeing the beginningof that. Almost everything in this interview
back in nineteen seventy one has eithercome to pass if it wasn't true yet,
or has intensified. And I wantto make it very clear that I'm
I and I think John Wayne.I can't speak for him other than to
(48:59):
read his words here, but Ibelieve this society has got to be a
society, a society not based onskin color, but based on merit.
And you cannot promote people simply becausethey check boxes. We've seen that with
Katangi Brown Jackson, who can't divinewoman. We've seen that with Kamala Harris,
who as an incompetent in every senseof the word. Sam Breton,
(49:22):
Pete Buddha Judge. Well, it'sa never ending list. If we could
close with this, I've often thoughtand people have asked me this, and
I think it's a standard question.And Lewis asks it of John Wayne.
If you could go back, spendsome time with anybody in history, and
(49:43):
I'll take Jesus out of that,because but let's say more recent historical figures,
who would you remember this was nineteenseventy one, what Ronald Reagan had
not yet been president. So ifyou ask me that question about recent history,
I would probably say I'd love tosit down with Ronald Reagan, Margaret
(50:04):
Thatcher, Pope, John Paul thesecond. If you ask me about all
of American history, I would justbe fascinated to sit down and talk to
George Washington and probably my favorite foundingfather other than George Washington, and you
know who that is, and thatwas Samuel Adams over a glass of sam
(50:24):
Adam's beer because he was a masterbrewer. You want to take a gas.
Of course, you've got the paperin front of you. Who did
John Wayne name as who he wouldlike to sit down and spend time with?
Not surprisingly, Winston Churchill, absolutely, which what we might would think
we perceive of of Wayne's character andhis demeanor. Certainly what we see in
(50:50):
this in this interview, the thoughtprocess and his views on things, you
can understand how Winston Churchill would bean appealing face. It's crazy what he
says. This is John Wayne.Most of what we've talked about today is
quoting John Wayne. He says thiswhile Roosevelt was giving the world communism Churchill
said, I tell you it's nouse arguing with a communist. It's no
(51:13):
good trying to convert a communist orpersuade him. You can only deal with
them on the following basis. Youcan only do it by having superior force
on your side on the matter inquestion. That is unbelievable. Now,
this last question, lu Ane,I'll read the Playboy question and throw it
back to you, because I thinkthis is sort of the question of our
(51:37):
day. It was the question ofour day in nineteen seventy one, and
in twenty twenty three it has lostany of its power. The question is
many pessimists insist that our nation haslost its dignity and is headed towards self
destruction. Are you that gloomy aboutthe future of American Well? And what's
interesting is that is that Lewis putsit in the con text of comparing the
(52:00):
condition of our society society to thedecline and fall of the Roman Empire and
the last days of Sodom and Gomorrah. And how often is that exact reference
used with what we see today.But for Wayne, as much as he
recognizes the half empty side of theglass, it really was very endearing that
(52:24):
he was optimise optimistic about the future. He says, you know, are
you gloomy about the future? Andhe says, absolutely not. That the
loud roar of irresponsible liberalism, whichin the old days we called radicalism,
is being quieted down by a reasoningpublic. And he said he thought the
pendulum was swinging back. Perhaps itdid, just not long and hard enough.
(52:47):
Well, bud Light, it swungback a little jo and I think
it's swinging back towards several other countries, you know. But he said,
we must always look look to thefuture. Tomorrow the time that gives a
man or a country just one morechant. It's just one of the many
things that I feel are wonderful inlife. And he goes on and he
(53:07):
says, you know, as acountry, our yesterdays tell us that we
have to win not only a war, but we have to win at peace.
And he goes on and he said, all I can hope is that
in our anxiety to have peace,we remember our clear and present dangers and
become aware the futility of compromise.Only if we keep both, keep sight
(53:30):
of both well, we have achance of stumbling forward into a day when
there won't be guns fired anymore inanger. Imagine if he were still alive,
but he'd be one hundred and sixteen, didn't we say, correct?
If he were still alive in theworld of cable news and could sit in
on a panel, I wonder whathe'd say, you know, because the
(53:51):
name of this is what would JohnWayne say? And I think that what
John Wayne would say as he saidit in nineteen seventy one. I can't
imagine he would say anything different today. Well, one of the things he
talks about when you know, hewas asked about contrasting the America he grew
up in the America of nineteen seventyone. Is it the same kind of
(54:12):
country or changed? He said,The only difference I can see is that
we now have an enemy within ourborders, fighting with propaganda and coloring events
in a manner that belittles our greatcountry, the seeds of our own destruction.
And they're here today as they wereas he saw him in nineteen seventy
one. How about we wrap itup with this. I think Lewis asks,
what legacy do you hope to leavebehind? Wayne says, well,
(54:36):
you're going to think I'm being corny, but this is how I really feel.
I hope my family and my friendswill be able to say that I
was an honest, kind and fairlydecent man. John Wayne, Happy birthday
to the Duke one hundred and sixtyyears old. This is lou Anne andersona
thank you guys for joining us today. Courageous, contagious, please get out
(54:59):
there, help spread some around.And I'm Lynn Woolley, the Secretary of
Logic, saying, be logical andwe'll see you next time on Political Pursuits,
the podcast, and Planet Logic
Greetings and welcome to this collaboration,a special collaboration today between Political Pursuits,
the Podcast and Planet Logic. I'mlou Anne Anderson and joined here today with
my buddy Lynn Wooly, also knownfrom Talk thirteen seventy in Austin, the
Cardle and Wooly Show, heard sevento nine am Monday through Friday. Lynn
(00:23):
and I are excited to have youhere with us as well, because today
we are celebrating. We are celebratingthe life of Marion Michael Morrison. Does
that name sound familiar? Ah mayring a bell here or there, but
mister Morrison was more commonly known asone John Wayne. Today would have been
(00:48):
John Wayne's one hundred and sixteenth birthday. He was born on this day,
May twenty sixth and nineteen o seven. And this is something the kind of
a project that Lynn and I havetalked about for years, and we just
finally decided that today, in honorof the Duke's birthday, we needed to
do this. And what we wantedto do was go through and talk about
(01:11):
an interview that John Wayne did withPlayboy back in May of nineteen seventy one.
You may all remember in the seventies. You know, there was always
the joke of oh, you know, I don't look. I don't get
Playboy for the pictures. I getit for the articles. Well and all
actuality. They had some pretty goodarticles back there. They would do long
(01:33):
form interviews with people, and Imean there really was some interesting content.
And so, who is it inour interview today, Lynn, who is
the author of that? Well itwas a guy, but the name of
Richard Warren lewis a contributing editor.And I'll say this, you know,
in being a young male at onetime, and I'm still half of that
(01:53):
now. But there were three interviewsthat Playboy did that made a lot of
publicity. One of course, wasthe famous John Lennon interview where he went
through and gave his version of whowrote what Beatles song and how the Beatles
got along and that That interview hasgone down as a classic. And then
(02:14):
there was, of course the famousI Have Lusted my Hard interview, which
was with Jimmy Carter and no,no, no, no, no,
no, no no no that Carter. Yeah, yeah, okay, yes,
yes it was. It was JamesEarl, to be exact. And
then let's call this what would JohnWayne say. And the thing that is
so interesting about that we don't haveto wonder what John Wayne would say about
(02:38):
today's politics and the seemingly crazy thingsthat are going on in today's world.
Because when you go back and lookat this interview and I printed out it's
why twenty three pages twenty three pageslong. Basically other than the LGBTQ stuff,
they pretty much touch on almost everythingthat's causing controversy in today's work,
(03:00):
from cancel culture to liberalism and education, to affirmative action, civil rights,
reparations, reparations that's right, welfared, social justice, mobaucracy versus democracy,
no go zones, anarchists, umfighting the administrative state. John Wayne,
(03:22):
you know, certainly known as apremier actor, and you know, lauded
deservedly for for so many of thosethings. The depth of his thinking and
how I think, Lenn you usedthe word prescient earlier, and absolutely this
was a man who was ahead ofhis time in his think. He was
(03:42):
a product of his times. Becausewe're gonna go through here and we'll tell
you some quotes, and if you'reshocked, don't don't be, because we're
going to do some quotes and we'renot gonna We're not gonna believe them.
Yeah, here here is something Iwanted to read from the introduction to this.
By nineteen sixty nine, having madethe list of top ten box office
attractions for nineteen consecutive years, Waynehad gross more than four hundred million dollars
(04:08):
for his studios, more than anyother star in motion picture history. But
because of his uncompromising squareness and hisarch conservative politics, he was still largely
a prophet without honor in Hollywood.So in many ways he was a victim
of cancel culture. Well, hewas too big to fail. You know,
(04:30):
when you put John Wayne on theback of a horse a horse and
put him in Chisholm, or puthim in Rio Bravo, or put him
in true Grit, people were goingto flock to the to the movie houses.
And you know, unlike maybe Targettoday or bud Light, they won.
They still were really concerned with makinga prophet. And you could not
(04:53):
argue with John Wayne's box office appeal. And despite him not getting other acclaim
that was due him during his lifetime, I will say that on his seventy
second birthday, which was literally weeksbefore he died, he was awarded the
Congressional Gold Medal, and then posthumouslyhe was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
(05:19):
This was on June ninth, nineteeneighty. That was done by President
Jimmy Carter. Remember that John Waynedied on June eleventh, nineteen seventy nine,
And some information that came across herenotes that Wayne had attended Carter's inaugural
ball in nineteen seventy seven as amember of the loyal opposition, as he
(05:41):
described it. He also was innineteen ninety nine, the American Film Institute
named Wayne the thirteenth among the greatestmale screen Legends of Classic Hollywood Cinema.
And then, of course we doknow that that John Wayne, once again
posthumously canceled. Culture came after himbecause the airport they're in Orange County,
(06:08):
California, is named after him,the John Wayne Airport, and there's a
big nine foot bronze statue of himthat stands there at the entrance. Has
long been a place where, youknow, anytime you flew into that airport
as a tourist, you of coursegot your picture made in front of the
John Wayne statue. But anyway,that is something that the changing of that
name has been something that has beenbrought up on several times, and efforts
(06:33):
have been made to change the names, and thankfully the Duke and his statue
are still standing tall Range County.Yes, yeah, we're seeing that here
in the shadow of Fort Colossos insteadof Fort Hood as part of this radical
culture cancel. One other little funfact though of this too, before we
move on, is that in twentysixteen, Republican Assemblyman this is in California,
(06:57):
Matthew Harper proposed making May twenty sixthas John Wayne Day in California.
The resolution was struck down by avote of thirty five to twenty due to
Wayne's views on race and his supportof controversial organizations such as the John Birch
Society and the House Unamerican Activities Committee. So with that little backdrop, let's
(07:23):
move into what exactly what would JohnWayne say? I thought the opening question
that was asked by Playboy, andwhen we say Playboy, we are again
referring to the guy who did this, Richard Warren Lewis. The first question,
how do you feel about the stateof the motion picture business today?
We're talking about May nineteen seventy one, he said, I'm glad I won't
(07:46):
be around much longer to see whatthey do with it. What would John
Wayne think of today's movies sell out? Well, probably so, of course,
he didn't know the concept of CG, so star Wars and things like
that, you know, probably wouldn'tappeal to him all that much. But
I think what we're talking about whenwe asked that question, the state of
(08:09):
the motion picture business today is thesubliminal content and in some cases, the
outright blatant content of the movies,which is all Marxist in nature. But
he also Wayne was very much abusinessman. Oh yes, he was an
actor, but he was a businessman, and with that he always seemed to
(08:33):
have an eye on the business sideof the movies. And that's what he
said that, you know, themen who control the big studios today are
stock manipulators and bankers. They knownothing about our business, be it the
business of movies, of making goodmovies, of making content that is aesthetically
pleasing and of some type of artisticvalue. You know. He goes on
(08:56):
and says that some of the guysremind me of Class fours. Well,
basically, did they do anything fora buck? Absolutely, But he was
talking too about movies being perverted.Now think about nineteen seventy one and how
you thought the movies might be pervertedthen, and then think about what some
of the trash we see on thescreen today. So Playboy asked, what
(09:18):
kind of films do you consider perverted? Wayne said, oh, easy,
writer, Midnight Cowboy. I'm quotingdirectly now, Midnight Cowboy, a story
about two fags qualifies. But don'tget me wrong, as far as a
man and a woman is concerned,I'm awfully happy there's a thing called sex.
It's an extra something God gave us. I see no reason why it
(09:41):
shouldn't be in pictures. Healthy,lusty sex is wonderful. And because of
that one statement, much of thepress vilified him as homophobic for having made
that statement, which you know thatprobably was not at all an uncommon sentiment
at the time. I would say, of the people in American nineteen seventy
(10:05):
one had that cinement and would haveused that terminology, yeah, and the
other and the other percentage, we'veprobably almost sexual. He would not have
believed what you know we have today. And I'm going to say how far
we've come because in some instances.It's how far we've regressed. Nobody wants
to be anybody's in anybody's bedroom.But we do have an interesting situation today
(10:28):
arising out of this with Target andNorthern Face and Bud Light and Miller Light
and all that. Well, Ithink it's interesting. Something else that he
was talking about with regard to thestudios was that he said, as much
as I couldn't stand some of theold time moguls, these men took an
interest in the future of their business. And I mean he gets here down
(10:50):
and starts talking about censorship and evenself censorship. He goes on and he
says they had integrity. There wasa stretch when they realized that made a
hero out of quote goddamn gangster,heavy and crime movies, that they were
doing a discredit to our country.So the mobuls voluntarily took it upon themselves
(11:11):
to stop making gangster pictures. Nocensorship from the outside. They were responsible
to the public. But today's executivesdon't give a damn and their efforts to
grab boxalt grab the box office thatthese six pictures are attracting. They're producing
garbage. But I think the motiveshave changed. I believe that the content
(11:35):
in today's motion pictures that a lotof people would find objectionable, and certainly
John Wayne would have found objectionable,is now about changing the world into a
more Marxist, more Soviet style oralI don't think that they're as money grabbing
as they are. Look for example, as a television analogy at CNN.
(11:56):
They don't do anything right if theywant an audience, but they do everything
right if they're trying to promote communismand socialism. I think there's there's there's
legitimacy to that to cause what Waynewas saying and commending the industry for was
their self censorship and the fact thatthey didn't want to be people promoting the
idea of gangsters and you know,people committing illicit acts. Whereas now we
(12:24):
have a we have a media,we have industries like the movie industries that
are actual advocates for certain types ofbehaviors or certain genres in life. And
so so from that standpoint, yeah, we have people that are pushing that
are promoting ideas that he is backhere actually commending the other people, you
(12:48):
know, his peers in the industrythat jadas he saw them, that did
feel more of an obligation to producemore more healthy, righteous content for the
public. Have you, as wemove into some of these movies, have
you seen True Grit lately? Yeah? All right, there's a couple of
versions. There's the one later withwith Bridges. Yeah, yeah, first
(13:13):
Bridge Jeff Bridges almost a complete sceneby seeing remake. The original one was
John Wayne as Rooster Cogburn and Campbelland Campbell in there as well Darby.
Yeah, absolutely, I would putthat as one of my favorite John Wayne
movies, probably probably up there withthe man who shot Liberty Valance. Maybe
(13:35):
the Searchers, Uh, certainly Hatari. I always like that one ballot of
the Green Berets or the Green Berets. True grit though, I want to
ask you, is in today's world, as as our culture has changed,
is Rooster Cogburn the ideal American man? Depends? So you ask it pretty
(14:00):
well? For me, Well,you know, I would aspire to be
something like that. And when shelooks him in the eye and she says,
they told me I needed to findsomebody with true grit, and they
told me you had true grit.And he's drunk off his year and he
is, Yeah, but he endsup coming through and it had the emotion
(14:20):
in it when she falls into therattlesnake pit, for one, and when
he drove the horse to death,so trying to get back so hard on
that horse Towards the end of themovie. Wow, So can you imagine
a scenario where you have a reallyimperfect vessel doing the right things to help
rectify a situation that in many waysseems homeful? Can you hold on just
(14:43):
a moment. I believe Donald Trumpis on the phone. Yes, that
is Trumpish, isn't it. Yes, very much, that is very much
very trumps Yes. And John Wayneand you know, listening or reading through
this, and you know what Iknow of other interview using things. He
never shied away from the fact thathe himself personally was a very flagged vessel.
(15:07):
Well and Lewis asked him, wasTrue Grit the best film you ever
made? And he said, no, I don't think so. Two classic
westerns were better, Stagecoach and RedRiver, and the third The Searchers,
which I thought deserved more praise thanit. God, that's a great rock
and roll movie. By the way, do you know why two reasons?
(15:28):
Number one one of the rock androll bands became the Searchers, right,
and Buddy Holly. One of histwo biggest hits was That'll be the Day,
And of course John Wayne threw outthe Searcher said That'll be the Day
and a great influence on the worlda rock and roll. But he says
the Searchers deserve more praise than itgot. And then he brings up the
(15:52):
Quiet Man was certainly one of thebest. And then he mentions the long
Voyage home. And then they askedhim, well, which one was the
worst, and he said, there'sabout fifty of them that are tied.
But the way I see it,John Wayne was John Wayne. He might
have been called Rooster Cogburn on thescreen, or he might have been called
a liberty valance on the screen orwhatever, but he was pretty much who
(16:17):
he was right right. And itwas thought that even the Rooster Cogburn character
was a little bit of a compositeof so many of his character of him
personally as well as many of thecharacters that he had played throughout the decades.
Yeah, and one of the thingsthat's interesting is we go through this,
why were you nicknamed Duke? Well? I was called Duke after a
(16:38):
dog a very good Airdale out ofthe Baldwin Kennels, and he said,
they didn't think my real name maryonMichael Morrison sounded American enough, so somebody
came up with John Wayne. Ididn't have any say in it, but
I think it's a great name andI liked Also, he talked about that
initially he was positioned as a singingcowboy. The problem was that was that
(16:59):
he could and sing or play aguitar, and it made those live performances
really, really awkward, and soat a point he said, you know,
I can't handle this. And sohe talks about how the studio went
out and they brought the best hillbillyrecording artist in the country to Hollywood to
take his place, and that forthe first couple of pictures that kind of
(17:21):
they were having a hard time sellingthis guy, but he finally caught on.
Oh and by the way, thatguy's name was Gene Autry. Yeah,
so he did have a pretty goodlittle run as things got going.
All right, I'm gonna go onover to page seven here because this is
where Wayne gets into some of theliberalism of the day, which, in
all honesty, sounds a lot likesome of the liberalism of our day.
(17:45):
He's talking about an articulate liberal groupcausing certain things in our country. And
I wonder how the young people whoread Playboy are going to allow these things
to go on. George Putnam,the Los Angeles News analysts put it succinctly
when he quote, what kind ofa nation is it that fails to understand
that freedom of speech and assembly areone thing, and anarchy and treason are
(18:07):
quite another. That allows known communiststo serve as teachers, to pervert,
to pervert the natural loyalties and idealsof our kids, filling them with fear
and doubt and hate, and downgradingpatriotism and all of our heroes of the
past. We're talking about one ortwo communist teachers there. How many do
(18:27):
we have today? I was goingto say, and this is remind you,
folks, this is nineteen seventy one, ninety one, same comment,
That same statements can be made todaywith complete and total relevance. Yeah,
there is no question. And Lewissays, you blame all this on the
(18:48):
liberals. By all this, he'stalking about teaching communism in the schools Wayne
says, well, the liberals seemto be quite willing to have Communists teach
their kids in school. The communistsreal lies they couldn't start a workers revolution
in the United States since the workerswere too affluent and too progressive. So
the commies decided on the next bestthing, and that's to start on the
(19:10):
schools, start with the kids.And I'll say, in today's world,
they have almost totally taken over ourschools, our colleges, our universities,
and our media. And you knowwho also would concur completely with that and
has spoken in that same point asChris Ruffo, that's done all of the
that's done so much research and everything, you know, working with a Manhattan
(19:32):
So Chris Ruffo's absolutely amazing talks exactlythis same point that because because economics was
not enough of a catalyst in orderto start some type of revolutionary type type
environment or to foment that that theyhad to turn to race. And then,
yes, they turned to race becausethe workers movement, we're too affluent
(19:56):
to use a workers movement. Theyturned to race, and and says and
then they are using the schools asa platform by which to promote that ideology.
And Wayne said in the interview,I don't want somebody like Angela Davis
inculcating an enemy doctrine in my kidsminds. Angela Davis one of the most
infamous left wing provocateurs, anarchist,whatever you want to call her of the
(20:23):
nineteen seventies. And how many AngelaDavises do we have in today's world who
are inculcating these things that you arekids? I mean they have. They
have parts of universities called the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Department that does this
on a daily base. And thenand then Lewis goes through there and he
says, you know, well,you know, Angela Davis says that the
(20:45):
people that want to take away herteaching credentials are doing so they're actually just
discriminating against her because she's black.And you know, he asked, Wayne,
do you think there's any truth tothat? And he says, with
a lot of blacks, there's quitea bit of resentment with their dissent,
and possibly rightfully so. But wecan't all of a sudden get down on
(21:06):
our knees and turn everything over tothe leadership of the blacks. Okay,
folks, here comes here comes anotheron the biggie's of this article. That
got all the headlines. Hold ontoyour hat quote. I believe in white
supremacy until the blacks are educated toa point of responsibility. I don't believe
in giving authority and positions of leadershipand judgment to irresponsible people. Irresponsible people
(21:33):
is what he said. Now,granted he is aiming a lot of that
at the black population, but italso kind of to me. It made
me think of affirmative action, andyou know, his idea, and then
he goes on and he talks about, you know, are you equipped to
judge which blacks are irresponsible in whichleaders inexperienced and in Wayne answers that it's
(21:56):
not my judgment. The academic communityhas developed certain tests that determine whether the
blacks are sufficiently equipped scholastically, butsome blacks have tried to force the issue
and enter college when they haven't passedthe test and don't have the requisite background.
Well, that comes from not havinga merit based society. But when
you're talking about this type of thing, I mean, nobody wants tests for
(22:18):
voting, their poll taxes or thingslike that that we're designed to keep blacks
from participating in society. But Ithink what John Wayne was talking about,
I believe in white supremacy until blackpeople have been educated to a point of
responsibility. Now this was what isthis thirty forty years ago? All right?
(22:40):
So today you have black people whoare sometimes maybe the best intellectuals of
our time, like the late WalterE. Williams, like Thomas Sowell and
Carson. Yeah, Ben Carson.I would point to Tim Scott, who
who has announced for president, hada marvelous speech. Reagan asked Candice Owens,
(23:00):
who makes just about as much senseas anybody. There's so many.
I mean, we're way past thisparticular time. But I think what he
was trying to say and he justblurted it out and the way he thought
it. But to me, ifyou want to translate that, it's that,
Yes, when people are going toparticipate in our society at the governmental
(23:26):
or decision making level, they haveto have a certain capacity of knowledge.
And I believe we are at apoint now where the black community as well
as the white community are split onthat. Part of the black community says,
hey, get out there, getthat degree, understand things, and
then you can move into society andbe whatever you can be. The other
(23:49):
half says nope. If you getif you go to school and you make
good grades, you're acting white.And that is something that has held the
black community back, is that particularattitude. We are one nation at this
point. Now we're very divided rightnow, but as one nation, you
should be able to take your Godgiven talents, improve upon them, either
(24:12):
in school or by your own experienceor whatever, and compete for any job.
And I think that's where we aretoday. But I do think that
in today's society sometimes if you're aminority, that gives you a leg up.
Well, and that's something that thathe goes on later and says that
he thinks that any black who cancompete with a white today can get a
(24:33):
better break than a white man.And he said, you know, I
wish they'd tell me where in theworld they have it better than right here
in America. And to a point, there were people that were trying to
ensure that blacks were that you know, their rights were respected and that they
did have opportunity. And so tosome degree he may have been correct.
(24:56):
But the main thing, you know, I keep going back to that as
much as the supremacy, you know, was a bit of a shocker for
some people, although let's remember theman was born in nineteen o six and
so talk about being a product ofhis time. But nonetheless he's talked about
I don't believe in giving authority impositionsof leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.
(25:18):
Well, that would say irresponsible blackpeople, crown people. I was going
to sail female. He's saying peoplehe believed in Merrick. We have two
supremely irresponsible people at the top rightnow, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
It has nothing to do with racerjen One of them is a white male,
I would guess, a leader,if not a child of the Jim
(25:42):
Crow era back when he was firstin Congress, and who's sang the praises
of a ku klux Klan Kleigel whenhe spoke at his funeral. The other
one is a woman. I've neverbeen absolutely certain what Kamala Harris is Ethnically,
she's not. I don't know whetheryou are Jamaican, Jamaican Indian,
(26:04):
I believe, I believe so.I don't think she's a black person,
but she claims it. But regardlessof that, she's incompetent, as is
Joe Biden unless you subscribe to thetheory that the mental arrangement of Biden's all
is all a farce, and thenhe really knows what he's doing and he's
using that as a cover. ButI think, you know, we've got
(26:26):
to move back into a meritocracy.And I think what Wayne was saying back
in nineteen seventy one is that wehave to move toward a meritocracy and a
time when all people have totally equalopportunity to be what they will be.
And there are people that are fromthat era. I mean, I would
say Walter E. Williams was fromthat era. Yes, Well, and
(26:49):
he talked, he goes on andhe talks about blacks in Hollywood and he
says that, you know, ifit's supposed to be a black character,
naturally I use a black actor,but I don't go as far as hunting
for positions for them. He said, I think the Hollywood studios are carrying
their tokenism a little too far,because evidently there was a movement that,
(27:10):
oh, the blacks were ten percentof the population, so we need to
have ten percent of our workforce beblack. Well, I represented, and
he said. He goes on andhe says, you know, in terms
of like grips or sundmen who areblack. He said, you know,
he doesn't think ten percent of thatpopulation has trained themselves for that kind of
work, so they're not going tobe there well, and they get themselves
(27:32):
trained to come on in. Andin the world of nineteen seventy one,
it had not progressed to the pointwhere we are now. But I mean,
you know, look, there's thiswhole idea of seeing if we have
ten percent of the people in thecountry or of a certain color or a
certain race, then every institution,every church, every governmental entity, every
school ought to be represented in thatway. That's just not the way society
(27:56):
works. And I think, Ithink in these days where a guy like
Joe Biden pushes it real heavily.I mean, Kamala Harris was certainly not
chosen for her ability. She waschosen for the boxes that she checks.
Our joint chiefs of staff now beingchosen by the boxes they check. Supreme
(28:17):
Court nominees chosen for the boxes theycheck. That's what Wayne was decrying.
And I think I can't speak getinto his mind other than this interview,
because he seems to have spoken morefreely here than anywhere else I've ever seen.
But I think he's sort of closeto where I am. People can
(28:37):
be any race in America. Theycan have any kind of a cultural background
or a background based on having arich family like say George W. Bush,
or come out of a poor familylike say Ben Carson. But the
biggest part of this, the biggestpart of the equation is what do you
want to be? How how baddo you want it? And how much
(29:02):
are you willing to sacrifice to getyour place, to get to a place
where you can be what you wantto be. And as we move on
through some of this, he alsogoes in talking about the Indians and that,
you know, the interviewer talks aboutfor years American Indians have played in
an important, subordinate role in Wayne'sfilms, and does he feel any empathy
(29:23):
for them, which it seemed kindof like the implication as you know,
have you exploited the Red Man?And anyway, so Wayne goes on and
he talks about how that he didn'tdoesn't feel that we did wrong in taking
this great country away from them.Our so called stealing of this country from
them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who
(29:44):
needed new land, and Indians wereselfishly trying to keep it for themselves.
And then you know when he askedif, oh, well, weren't the
Indians, by virtue of prior possession, the rightful owners of the land,
And he said, look, youknow, I'm sure there have been inequalities.
If those inequalities are present affecting anyof the Indians now alive, they
have a right to a court hearing. But oh, by the way,
(30:04):
what happened a hundred years ago inour country can't be blamed on us today.
And in talking about if the Indianstoday are being dehumanized on reservations,
mind you, this is back innineteen seventy one, he said, which
I love this. I'm quite surethat the concept of a government run reservation
(30:26):
would have an ill effect on anyone. That seems to be what the socialists
are working for now, to haveeveryone cared for from cradle to grave.
Now, that's absolutely true. AndI'll go back to the words of that
great current day philosopher that you probablyhave heard of, that would be Bill
(30:48):
Maher, who talks about something thathe calls present ism, and I think
he's absolutely right, and that's whatJohn Wayne is talking about there. You
have to live in the era inwhich you live. And if we turn
around and blame our founding fathers,even though that was a very different time
and people had different attitudes and normswere considered different, especially from what today's
(31:11):
left wing political correct causes are,we're committing presidism. Under presidism, we
have to go back through history.So we give the land that's now Mexico
back to the Incas and the Aztecsand see who they got it from,
and then see who they got itfrom, and finally try to restore everything
(31:32):
back to its absolute original owner.Until we get back to the Garden of
Eden. It's not doable. Andin my humble opinion, which is usually
at least semi correct, if yougo in and conquer another country, and
this would maybe the Vladimir Putin adoctrine, I don't know, but if
he goes in and conquers Ukraine,if the Palestinians can conquer Israel, then
(31:55):
until somebody knocks them off, it'stheir land. Well, and the Indians
at that point in time, evidentlywe're looking for as the Lewis the interviewer
refers to it as that they haddemanded reparations, and Wayne says, what
happened between their forefathers and our forefathersis so far back, right, wrong
(32:15):
or indifferent that I don't see whywe owe them anything. I don't know
why the government should give them somethingthat it wouldn't give me. Yeah,
well, shades of California. We'llsee how that works out. The billions
of dollars that newsom. I don'tknow what. He may have changed his
mind by now because his poll numbersare going down. But I don't see
(32:37):
how you can give people reparations whohad nothing to do with it. What
about Barack Obama? He certainly isn'tdescended from slaves, right right, Well,
and that's what you know. AndWayne goes on and he's like,
you know, I'm not going togive you one of those. I was
a poor boy, and I pulledmyself up by my bootstrap stories. But
I've gone without a meal or twoin my life, and I still don't
(32:59):
expect the government to turn over anyof its territory to me. Hard times
aren't something I can blame my fellowcitizens for. Years ago, I didn't
have all the opportunities either. Butyou can't whine and belliate because somebody else
got a good break and you didn'tlike these Indians are We'll all be on
a reservation soon if the socialists keepssubsidizing groups like them with our tax money.
(33:22):
M I think he had a strongopinions about socialism. I think he
did. Lewis comes back and says, in your distaste for socialism, aren't
you overlooking the fact that many worthwhileand necessary government services, such as social
security and medicare derived essentially from socialisticprograms evolved during the thirties, And Wayne
(33:42):
says, I know all about that. In the late twenties when I was
a sophomore at USC, I wasa socialist myself, but not when I
left. The average college kid idealisticallywishes everybody could have ice cream and cake
for every meal, But as hegets older and gives more thought to his
and his fellow ends responsibilities, hefinds that it can't work out that way,
(34:02):
that some people will not carry theirload. And then, with regard
to welfare recipients, he says,I believe in welfare a welfare work program.
I don't think a fellow should beable to sit on his back side
and receive welfare. I'd like toknow why well educated idiots keep apologizing for
lazy and complaining people who think theworld owes them a living. I'd like
(34:28):
to know why they make excuses forcowards who spit in the faces of police
and then run behind the judicial sobsisters, I can't understand these people who
carry placards to save the life ofsome criminal, yet have no thought for
the innocent. That doesn't this remindyou of the George Floyd situation Black Lives
(34:49):
Matter, which is, by theway, having all kinds of legal problems
because they have taken the donations thisparticular group that's called Black Lives Matter and
have used it in very shady operations. And the media doesn't want to give
a whole lot of attention to that. But Playboy wants to know who are
these people you're talking about, andWayne says, entertainers like Steve Allen,
(35:14):
who was, by the way,wrote a lot of books. I used
to read some of them. Ididn't agree with a lot of them,
and his cronies who went up tonorthern California and held placards to save the
life of that guy, Carl Chessman, I just don't understand these things.
I can't understand why our national leadershipisn't willing to take the responsibility of leadership
(35:34):
instead of checking polls and listening tothe few that screen. Doesn't that remind
you of our current situation where GeorgeFloyd, who was a street thug,
who had given a counterfeit twenty dollarbill and who was doped up on finnel
and who knows what all else,and yet he's deified absolutely absolutely, and
they go on. I mean,he talks about an attorney, civil rights
(35:55):
attorney, William Kunzler, who wenton to defend the Chicago Seven. I
mean, this guy, he waskind of like somebody's mother. Who comes
to mind, Missus Obama that nevermet a revolutionary or a radical that you
know, they didn't want to getreal involved with. But Kunsler, he
(36:17):
was talking about, how, youknow, making a speech to the black
panthers saying that the ghetto is theirsand then if the police come in,
they have a right to shoot them. And Wayne asked, why is that
dirty, no good son of abitch allowed to practice law, you know,
But it's like the source of thatstatement was that he was talking to
(36:38):
he was talking to a Black Panthersgroup and he was talking about a case
in New Jersey where a bunch ofblacks were urged to kill a white policeman
when they entered the ghetto, andthat there was a story of a white
policeman who was stomped to death inPlayfield, New Jersey. The crowd broke
into prolonged applause when Kunstler was talkingabout this, and Kuonsler pointed out that
(37:01):
after that happened, no white policemanset foot in that black ghetto of Plainfield,
New Jersey, or had since nineteensixty seven. And Wayne talks about
that could turn out to be aterrible thing, you know. He said,
you know, at some point youcould have a bunch of white to
turn out and say, well,if that's their land and this is ours,
they'd better not trespass on it.And he just remarks that that's that's
(37:23):
a bad that's not a good thing. It works both ways, and that's
not good for our society. Herecognized the dangers of segregation. This racist,
homophobic, misogynist that we're hearing aboutin this thing. You know,
somewhere no longer lye. Yeah,he and he talked about Herbert Marcus.
All right, now, that wasa left wing professor, doctor Herbert Marcus
(37:47):
at the University of California at SanDiego. Wayne said he's obviously a Marxist
and says, we will use theanarchist and then they talk. He talks
about the young people at the Chicagoconvention. I think he's probably talking about
nineteen sixty eight, the Chicago DemocraticConvention. They were conned into doing hysterical
things by a bunch of activists.Let me ask you, do you think
(38:08):
Wow, that sound familiar at universitiestoday, where Anne Coulter can't speak without
having a pie thrown in her face, or anybody that comes on a college
campus with a conservative message is shouteddown automatically. And are these kids being
used? Are they taught this bythe left wing professors? Have we not
(38:30):
even heard about random mobs where yes, the same the same anarchists. Are
they pop up in city after cityafter city. They're being bust from place
to place in order to come inhere and foment violence and chaos. Yeah,
(38:52):
he talked a little bit about toomuch tolerance, and I find this
very interesting. Because I think alot of what's going on in our world
today is the overtoleizing of America.But he's talking about police. Remember we've
had to defund the police movement Austin, Texas, where I work on a
Monday through Friday Basis is a greatexample of this. Crime just shot up
(39:15):
in Austin when we started dropping policeand defunding them. And Wayne said,
when they start shooting policemen, thetime has come to start knocking them off.
As far as I'm concerned, Lewissays, what do you mean by
knocking them off? I'd throw themin the can if I could, Wayne
said, But if they try tokill you, I'd sure as hell's shoot
(39:37):
back. I think we should breakup those organizations, make them illegal.
The American people is getting sick andtired of what these young people are doing.
But it's really partly the public's ownfault by allowing the permissiveness that's been
going on in the past fifteen ortwenty years. He talks about then famous
doctor Spock, not the one onStar Trek, but the you attrition.
(40:02):
Yeah, thank you, who Ibelieve didn't want to use corporeal punishment or
anything like that, but too muchtolerance, getting the kids out there to
do the dirty work on campus forthe communist professors, defunding the police before
that was even a thing. Well, and he talks about, you know
(40:22):
that our society is promoted in anythinggoes attitude in every area of life and
in every American institution. Then hegoes on and calls out the media,
saying, look at the completely irresponsibleeditorship of our country's newspapers. By looking
for provocative things to put on theirfront pages, they're encouraging these kids to
(40:45):
act the way they're acting. FakeWe see that fake news. But we
also see that with regard to likethe school shooters, that everybody wants to
become famous, and so we wouldhave all of these school shooters who part
of what you know, when theirmanifestos or their online postings and everything,
you've gotten the sense that the ideathat they're going to get some notoriety,
(41:07):
they're going to get some degree ofperverse acclaim, not realizing that they're not
going to be there to enjoy itbecause they're going to get shot. This
is the crazy thing about that.But you know, when this was done,
and gosh, we're already running allthe time. But when this was
this interview was done, the bigthing going on was Vietnam, and you
(41:29):
had idiots like John Kerry, who'snow the environmental Global Warmings, are throwing
his medals over the fence. You'llremember the other day he showed them at
some event and I guess he climbedthe fence and got them back. But
you may remember the me Lie maskerand Lewis asked him about that. What
about what Lieutenant William Calley did atme Lie? And John Wayne says,
(41:53):
well, I guess there was alittle something to it, because it turned
out that it kind of happened,he said, but I could show you
pictures of what the North Vietnamese andthe viet Cong are doing to our people
over there. That's something that wesee in the media today. Show everybody
what the good guys are doing wrong, but don't show anybody how the bad
(42:15):
guys are really far worse. Alacking of context that yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's playing aside. Thatfits the white right the narrative exactly well,
and that's what he went on totalking about. You know, you're
bringing up stuff that's being debated inthe trials when he was talking about the
media coverage, and he said,what I was in is that even before
(42:35):
the trials, this stuff was evenless proven of a fact, yet the
newspapers printed it anyway. So againhe's making basically an allegation of fake news.
Well, I'm moving over to pagefourteen now, down toward the bottom,
if you've got your script there,where he's talking about politics. He's
talking about Barry Goldwater and the Texan. I take the Texan to London,
(42:57):
Baynes Johnson. He said, Idon't think we ought to make an issue
out of Vietnam because we both knowwhat we're going to probably end up having
to send half a million over there, and that was Goldwater. Well,
if we'd send half a million andwe hadn't had the same rules of engagement
that we had, we might havewon that war. Johnson said, Yeah,
that's probably true, Barry, butI've got an election to win.
(43:21):
So Barry told the truth and Johnsongot elected on a peace platform. And
then, as I remember from myhistory, he said, I will not
run and will not accept another nominationas your president because Vietnam broke him down,
you know, And john Wayne hadwhat has always been called the Colon
Powell documents also doctrines. Also mydoctrine, don't get into war. Just
(43:44):
don't do it unless it's absolutely necessary. If it is absolutely necessary, use
maximum for us and win it quicklywell. And something else though along in
that Line's what they were talking aboutis after they finished talking the Vietnam Johnson
Goldwater, they went on and we'retalking about Nixon, and Lewis asked John
(44:07):
Wayne about, you know, whatdo you think of Nixon's performance since since
you know, the war was windingdown, and he said, I think
mister Nixon is proving himself his ownman. I knew he would. I
knew him and stuck with him whenhe was a loser, and I'm sticking
with him now that he's a winner. A lot of extremist righteous are saying
(44:28):
that he isn't doing enough, ButI think he's gradually waiting in and getting
control of the reins of government,which I found so interesting because to me,
that's talking about fighting the administrative state. And there is a body of
thought out there that is includes peoplelike Roger Stone, people like Bobby Kennedy
Junior, who would also say thatyes, indeed, and that's what Watergate
(44:52):
was about. That Watergate was justanother coup against the president to get him
out of office. Because one ofthe things that was said that going back
to Eisenhower and then Kennedy, thatthey recognized that if you didn't come in
and clear out the administrative state everyfew years, that they would grow to
(45:14):
be too much of a power.Kennedy was assassinated before he had time to
do that. Nixon knew he neededto get that under control, and he
was seeing evidence that he needed toget that under control with what was going
on with j Edgar Hoover and thingslike that, which is why he went
over Mark Felt to become head ofthe FBI because he knew Mark Felt was
(45:37):
nothing but a deep state type person, and who Mark Felt ended up being
known as deep throat. But nonetheless, in his second term, that was
one of Nixon's stated goals was thathe was going to come after the administrative
state. Well, and who didNixon serve under as Vice President, Dwight
D. Eisenhow correct, who wasthe first awareness about the military absolutely industrial
(46:00):
complex? Absolutely yes, And hewatched the whitewash of the Kennedy assassination.
Yeah, And I find this interesting. I'm trying to move fast here,
but on page seventeen towards the bottomabout what made the mood in Hollywood so
fashionable to take a vigorous stand againstcommunism, and Wayne says many of us
(46:22):
were being invited to supposed social functionsor house parties, mostly at well known
Hollywood writers' homes, that turned outto be communist recruitment meetings. He says,
that was actually going on. Iwonder he could never know this because
he passed away a few years afterthis interview was done. How in communism,
(46:43):
socialism, and Marxism would become bytwenty twenty three, right, Well,
and you know, he was vilifiedfor having been part of the In
fact, I think he was theleaders I don't know if it was president
chair, whatever it was, ofthe Motion Picture Alliance for the President Ovation
of American Ideals, which was theHollywood organization that was, you know,
(47:05):
supposedly formed to blacklist communist and communistsympathizers. Well, in all actuality,
that is, there were plenty ofthem out there to be concerned with,
and part of these people's concerns.One of the things that Wayne describes in
parts of the articles was his ownpeople, people that he hired to come
(47:28):
and work on movies that they wouldbe on set, and they were being
harassed. They were being tormented bypeople that were trying to recruit them into
Communism and using very heavy handed tactics, and they didn't appreciate that, and
so you have to wonder how muchof it. Yes, they didn't like
these people's politics, but they especiallydidn't like the politics they were bringing to
(47:51):
the job. Well, there wasa communist infiltration. If you've ever studied
the writings of Whittaker Chambers, ifyou've ever looked at the the Pumpkin Papers.
So many people don't know what thePumpkin Papers are, not going into
it now, but look up WhittakerChambers, look up Pumpkin Papers, and
you'll see some things that were goingon. I want to move on to
(48:13):
page twenty two. I was justgoing to say quickly. He names names
here of people that were communists orcommunist sympathizers, and he also talks about
how they were starting to see thatideology seeking to seep into screenplays and into
projects, and that they didn't likethat. So that advocacy that we were
talking about, while it was notanything that it is now. Wayne was
(48:38):
saying that he was seeing the beginningof that. Almost everything in this interview
back in nineteen seventy one has eithercome to pass if it wasn't true yet,
or has intensified. And I wantto make it very clear that I'm
I and I think John Wayne.I can't speak for him other than to
(48:59):
read his words here, but Ibelieve this society has got to be a
society, a society not based onskin color, but based on merit.
And you cannot promote people simply becausethey check boxes. We've seen that with
Katangi Brown Jackson, who can't divinewoman. We've seen that with Kamala Harris,
who as an incompetent in every senseof the word. Sam Breton,
(49:22):
Pete Buddha Judge. Well, it'sa never ending list. If we could
close with this, I've often thoughtand people have asked me this, and
I think it's a standard question.And Lewis asks it of John Wayne.
If you could go back, spendsome time with anybody in history, and
(49:43):
I'll take Jesus out of that,because but let's say more recent historical figures,
who would you remember this was nineteenseventy one, what Ronald Reagan had
not yet been president. So ifyou ask me that question about recent history,
I would probably say I'd love tosit down with Ronald Reagan, Margaret
(50:04):
Thatcher, Pope, John Paul thesecond. If you ask me about all
of American history, I would justbe fascinated to sit down and talk to
George Washington and probably my favorite foundingfather other than George Washington, and you
know who that is, and thatwas Samuel Adams over a glass of sam
(50:24):
Adam's beer because he was a masterbrewer. You want to take a gas.
Of course, you've got the paperin front of you. Who did
John Wayne name as who he wouldlike to sit down and spend time with?
Not surprisingly, Winston Churchill, absolutely, which what we might would think
we perceive of of Wayne's character andhis demeanor. Certainly what we see in
(50:50):
this in this interview, the thoughtprocess and his views on things, you
can understand how Winston Churchill would bean appealing face. It's crazy what he
says. This is John Wayne.Most of what we've talked about today is
quoting John Wayne. He says thiswhile Roosevelt was giving the world communism Churchill
said, I tell you it's nouse arguing with a communist. It's no
(51:13):
good trying to convert a communist orpersuade him. You can only deal with
them on the following basis. Youcan only do it by having superior force
on your side on the matter inquestion. That is unbelievable. Now,
this last question, lu Ane,I'll read the Playboy question and throw it
back to you, because I thinkthis is sort of the question of our
(51:37):
day. It was the question ofour day in nineteen seventy one, and
in twenty twenty three it has lostany of its power. The question is
many pessimists insist that our nation haslost its dignity and is headed towards self
destruction. Are you that gloomy aboutthe future of American Well? And what's
interesting is that is that Lewis putsit in the con text of comparing the
(52:00):
condition of our society society to thedecline and fall of the Roman Empire and
the last days of Sodom and Gomorrah. And how often is that exact reference
used with what we see today.But for Wayne, as much as he
recognizes the half empty side of theglass, it really was very endearing that
(52:24):
he was optimise optimistic about the future. He says, you know, are
you gloomy about the future? Andhe says, absolutely not. That the
loud roar of irresponsible liberalism, whichin the old days we called radicalism,
is being quieted down by a reasoningpublic. And he said he thought the
pendulum was swinging back. Perhaps itdid, just not long and hard enough.
(52:47):
Well, bud Light, it swungback a little jo and I think
it's swinging back towards several other countries, you know. But he said,
we must always look look to thefuture. Tomorrow the time that gives a
man or a country just one morechant. It's just one of the many
things that I feel are wonderful inlife. And he goes on and he
(53:07):
says, you know, as acountry, our yesterdays tell us that we
have to win not only a war, but we have to win at peace.
And he goes on and he said, all I can hope is that
in our anxiety to have peace,we remember our clear and present dangers and
become aware the futility of compromise.Only if we keep both, keep sight
(53:30):
of both well, we have achance of stumbling forward into a day when
there won't be guns fired anymore inanger. Imagine if he were still alive,
but he'd be one hundred and sixteen, didn't we say, correct?
If he were still alive in theworld of cable news and could sit in
on a panel, I wonder whathe'd say, you know, because the
(53:51):
name of this is what would JohnWayne say? And I think that what
John Wayne would say as he saidit in nineteen seventy one. I can't
imagine he would say anything different today. Well, one of the things he
talks about when you know, hewas asked about contrasting the America he grew
up in the America of nineteen seventyone. Is it the same kind of
(54:12):
country or changed? He said,The only difference I can see is that
we now have an enemy within ourborders, fighting with propaganda and coloring events
in a manner that belittles our greatcountry, the seeds of our own destruction.
And they're here today as they wereas he saw him in nineteen seventy
one. How about we wrap itup with this. I think Lewis asks,
what legacy do you hope to leavebehind? Wayne says, well,
(54:36):
you're going to think I'm being corny, but this is how I really feel.
I hope my family and my friendswill be able to say that I
was an honest, kind and fairlydecent man. John Wayne, Happy birthday
to the Duke one hundred and sixtyyears old. This is lou Anne andersona
thank you guys for joining us today. Courageous, contagious, please get out
(54:59):
there, help spread some around.And I'm Lynn Woolley, the Secretary of
Logic, saying, be logical andwe'll see you next time on Political Pursuits,
the podcast, and Planet Logic
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