#388: Helpful Stress, Surviving Twin's Insignificance, Avoiding Employment

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Were you into Sean Hunter at all? On Boy Meet's World?

Speaker 3 (00:03):
That was the friend right, Yes, it was Cory. I
liked his older brother.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
That's actually Corey's older brother. His name is Eric. Eric.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Okay there it is so good, so okay on.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
The same page.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I don't know, but I appreciate you opening up about
your first sexual problem.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Fabulous Vegas. This is pot therapy. Real people are real problems.

Speaker 4 (00:27):
Is are real therapists some bigger questions anonymously at therapy.
Always have therapy guys at gmail dot com and now
broadcasting with return.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
That's Jim. That's with me. I don't worry.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
About It is pot therapy.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
What was your first sexual fantasy as a kid? If
you want to hear about Whitney's Patreon dot com slash therapy.
What was your first crush? What was your first like.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Youthful rush on a TV person?

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I don't know, I mean, I assume like Charlie Chaplin,
you know, somewhere right around there, you know, yeah, some
of those early.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
The Adventer of the Wheel, Yeah yeah, the little Rascals, Darla.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Everybody on the Andy Griffith Show, Barney.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, yeah, mine was fun. What was this bitch's name
Brooks Shields.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Brooks Shields Ione.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Just random TV show. I don't remember when she was in.
It was just like god damn, like.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, yeah, still all about that. Shields is gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Brook Shields his way up there. I mean there was
like the common ones of like the models, you had
your you know, Michelle Pfeiffer, your.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
We also didn't have TV growing up like we had
the you know, the like the three networks.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Basically we could we get NBC. We get NBC, so
like Walter CBS.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
Yeah, maybe a little a b C if the wind
was right, and same with Fox.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Okay, but I think I think those four channels.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
You were you were up at eleven thirty at night
jerking off to like that blurry Walter Cronkite, you know,
late at night. Yeah, snowy TV, waiting for the signal
to catch.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
Why would the TV be snowy for wind is a
factor in the connection?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Come on, man? You set yeah with you're scene like
you set it up. I was with works. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Walter Brookshields was.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Way up there in the early days. What's the other one,
Cindy something.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Cindy Crawford Cindy Crawford.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
God, that was a big one.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
Yeah, she was before your time too, Sidney Crawford.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, I woll yeah that's my jam. I can't help myself,
older woman. Yeah, I wasn't into those other girls my age.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
They tell me it's weird, like how you have these
crushes on these old people. Then you watch kids now
and they crush on older people, Like what And then you're.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like, what the fuck
is wrong with you? Well, like we talked about in
the Patreon you know area that apparently there's a forty
year old beefcake dude in the newly Low and Stitch movie.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
And I kept from probably younger.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, I'm upset about it anyway. I don't I don't
know if I recommend seeing the movie. I wouldn't say
in theaters.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Younger.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
If you have is he really shot up? Wow? Do
you have Disney Plus?

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:31):
All right, just wait for it. It's a whole thing.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
To watch the emotions one.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Oh, inside out too. I just watched it again this weekend.
It's it's worth it. That's a that's a good watch,
that's easy to watch. That's fun, I think, especially as
a therapist, like seeing how they're doing like this whatever
it's called anthrow apologizing? What is that called, Jacob, you
said this word the other day and anthrow?

Speaker 1 (03:59):
You remember I said a word you fucking did.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
We had a whole conversation about it. And you use
the word and and throw hologizing and throw pomorphizing.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Ye see I told you no, he used it the
other day in a sentence he did. That's functional anyway,
the anthrow, pomorphic, anxietyorphousie anxiety. Look, I said, he knows
what it is. Yeah, he's only just walking around confirming
what I said.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
He knows.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
He knows one hundred percent of the things. Anyway, Nick's
not here, which is why the show is just off
the fucking way. We don't care anymore. There's no grown
up supervision. We're doing whatever we want, Nix and I
because I'm a bad boy. Yeah, and I am a
bad boy. And uh Nick's apparently living it up out
in the middle of fucking nowhere. Uh no indoor plumbing

(04:56):
and just he's living his best life. So whatever, Nick,
go fuck yourself. But as for the rest of us,
here in fabulous Las Vegas, we have some great questions
for today's show, and we're kicking off the order with
healthy versus Unhealthy stress. Would love your opinion on health
versus unhealth stress. For context, I likely have c PTSD

(05:20):
from abusive parents.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
What's that mean?

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Complex PTSD, So if you're thinking about PTSD is like
something that might be based in like an episode of
your life. C PTSD is based on your life. So
like if you want PTSD a.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Little more complex than regular pts.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yah, yeah, PTSD is uncle abused me. CPDDSD is I
lived with uncle. Yeah yeah, and it just never stopped
and so just always happened.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
So that's another way of saying it is just a
little more complex.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Oh yeah, I guess that that's probably why they say that.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
It's a well named Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
It almost seems to catch itself right there. Good job, folks, Yeah,
thank you. And when I was in high school, I
noticed if I was alone in my room, I would
jump in panic every time someone opened a door, even
when I was living in a safe home. But if
I was on stage doing a play, I was calm
and care free. In the past, when talking I think

(06:13):
that's talking, yes, taking yeah, in the past, when talking
to therapists, They've suggested that this is tied to anxiety
and not feeling comfortable with calm, that I should work
on meditation and being more okay with peacefulness. Now that
I'm older, I've gotten better at this and would like
to think I can suffer through a calm Saturday. However,

(06:37):
for work, I've noticed a familiar pattern if I'm at
a stable. If I'm at a stable, if maybe a
little boring job, I'm uncomfortable, I usually don't last very long.
I find instead I thrive at jobs on small teams
where there's always a new fire to deal with. I've

(06:57):
noticed starting new companies from scratch is something I've become
quite good at. I think a lot of this is
just personal preference. I like a good problem and the
ability to mix things up every day. However, I can't
help but notice a similar pattern of thriving in chaos
and not dealing well with stability. Any suggestions on behaviors

(07:18):
I can notice, or clues I can look for to
give me a sense of if I'm making the decision
here or if my childhood is making the call. Thanks
PD s D, which I assume sounds for South Dakota.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
I.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
PD is a spokesperson for Sunny Delight.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Oh have you seen the new alcoholic Sonny Delight?

Speaker 1 (07:39):
No, this is bullshit.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
No, I think it's great because the ones you want
to mean, I think it was gross marketed to us.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Just feels it moral.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
This is what I.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Would rather have.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
The purple stuff, Oh, purple drink. I like purple.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
That was their ad there, We're like, oh this purple stuff.
Oh there's sunny, like a picture of purple. Take the
purple stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Did you ever drink tang?

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Okay, so you were more in the tang side of
the street.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
Tang was already a novelty though when I was a kid,
it was established. It wasn't like, oh, we're going to
go have a nice thing of tang. It was like, hey,
let's try tang okay.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Oh okay.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
So that was like it was already like it was
already not a normal.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Was cool? What was the normal?

Speaker 4 (08:28):
Was it?

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Kool aid?

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Kool aid was was very ubiquitous cool, a cool aid, coke, PEPSI.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
I feel like tea always existed in my family. It
was always just like a picture of tea.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
Oh yeah, there might be some tea somewhere. We often
we were southern. We had pictures of tea, but it
was like it was a picture of tea in my refrigerator.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Right now, tea, did you sweet tea?

Speaker 1 (08:47):
I do sweet tea when I'm make it at home.

Speaker 4 (08:49):
See, I make my good old fashioned Louisiana sweets easy.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
But oh, don't tell me it's old fashion unless it's
in the orange plastic picture.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
No, it's a it's a last I don't know, buddy,
the plastic pictures and the microplastics and all this stuff.
I buy into all of that, and yeah, I buy
into it enough that it bothers me.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
I don't buy the new stuff.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
I'm with you on that.

Speaker 4 (09:12):
Yeah, I don't all be bullshit. No, I'm ill, but no,
I kind of don't care. Okay, it might all be bullshit,
but it bothers me enough just thinking about it that
I buy the last one or whatever.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Okay, Yeah, yeah, this is a complex difficulty, very complex.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, feeling heavy lifting. It is doing something.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
So if I'm reading this right, it's whitey. Yeah, nice,
well done. That was really good, solid, solid work, just
subtle triple on Dondre. So what I see in this
question is sort of like the person saying, look, I
notice that whenever there's chaos, I'm fine. Whenever it's quiet,

(09:56):
I'm like I'm feeling nervous, I'm feeling electric and looking
back in my ch childhood. If I was in a
room by myself, as soon as somebody opens the door,
my reaction is big. It's it's wrong sized, and you'd
think that I startle easily. You'd think that, like I'm
jittery or I'm squeamish. But you put me on stage,
you put me in front of other people, I'm great.

(10:16):
And the same thing today as an adult, Like if
i'm if i'm within my own thoughts on a casual Saturday,
I'm restless, I'm not doing well. But then you put
me in the melu, you put me in a small
group project where there's always a problem. I'm fine, you know,
So like that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I speak a.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Lot of friends, Yeah, speak a lot of that.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
And having abusive parents kind of like you shared a
moment ago gently, there's that constant. It's probably sporadic. I
don't know. They didn't share specifics, which is fine, but yeah,
I can feel like you're kind of on your toes.
You have to be on guard at all times. So
even when things are maybe more relaxed or chill, like
you're in a safe space, eventually you may still jump

(11:04):
when something happens because you're like, oh no, I let
myself relax, and here we go. Someone opened a door
and now I'm.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Like, huh right, what were you? Like?

Speaker 3 (11:14):
I still do that. I'm like, do I have CPS?
I'm just kidding. Peter will be like, I live here, Like,
I know, but I didn't hear you another.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
I terrify my WiFi regularly.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Okay, I feel.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Better hearing this. It's horrible just by existing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
Walking into a room in my house that I live in. Yes,
it's literally the worst thing I could do.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Does she do the backseat driver thing whereas you're driving
if there's anything happening, she just.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Gasps, No, that's real PTSD. I feel like I'm very
I drive us every I am because no, I really
think that is PTSD. Because I have been in like
two pretty serious car or one really serious one one
not so serious. Correct and not including the rear ending.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Patre dot com slash therapy everybody if you want to
hear all about.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
But I feel like after that one of them, I
was in the rain and couldn't stop. So in my mind,
it's like, in my mind, oh, you could still hit
someone even when you push the bikes. Because I tried that,
it didn't work. I still hit someone. And then yeah,
so I guess I just feel like that is like
a weird little trigger for me. So I just started
looking out the window when he's driving. I feel like

(12:29):
we're getting too close. I don't like that. I just
look out the window, like.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
If i'm that's kind of me.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
If i'm I'm I'm a nervous passenger if I pay
attention to what's happening, and like, I'll find myself starting
to get a little nervous, and I'll kind of purposely
be like stop paying attention.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yes, Like you don't need to pay attention to the road.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
It's fine, exactly, they're fine.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
The car is gonna they're driving, They're fine, right.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Right, exactly, They're fine. So anyway, I very much relate
to the like jumping with humans door to room.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
I have worked over the years with a lot of
people like this, and I think that I have touched
into this a couple of times myself, because I well
I work very well when there is a problem. I'm
a really good big problem solver. Okay, Like, hey, we
have a crazy thing happening. You know, in certain context,

(13:19):
you'd call it an emergency. You know, here's a thing happening.
I'm really good. Yeah, I'm level headed. I don't get
overly emotional about it. And I'm good at just grabbing
people and be like, you do this, you do this,
you do this, We're gonna do this. And I have
probably at times in my life, I can't think of
any right now, but I've probably at times in my

(13:41):
life kind of sewed a little chaos into a work situation.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Probably probably you don't see how you just bring chaos
into every fucking situation as soon as there's an opportunity.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
Probably I think you were maybe confusing okayferent aspects of
my life. Oh yeah, yeah, fine, fine, fine, yeah yeah,
but yeah, like it like writing shows and things like that.
There's definitely a part of me that works really well,
and I'm aware of it clearly that I work really
well under under these kinds of pressures. I know people

(14:17):
that I can think of off the top of my
head that absolutely do this regularly, and we know it
about them, like other other co workers are like, yeah, yeah,
that's Joe. Joe has to kind of blow it all
up and then he puts it all back together.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Oh, and like that's just kind of how Joe works.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
And so if you don't want Joe to do that,
don't put Joe on that job.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Oh okay, Oh but no, I do think that. I
mean obviously, like it is a real thing. Jacob's just
sharing a great example of that. But yeah, I have
friends where it's like, yeah, even if they could sit
down on a Saturday, it's like, no, I gotta I
gotta like clean the house or I gotta do that.
It's like I can't even sit still because the discomfort
is so strong. It's like that feels uncomfortable. So to

(15:01):
ease that, they go and do shit or in their
minds it's like blowing up something that it's like I
have to do this or else, Like it's okay if
you don't pull out your stove and clean behind it today,
like it will be yeakay.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Well, I mean and even that energy of like the
other shoe's gonna drop, you know, And like the CPTSD
doesn't surprise me there where It's like, Hey, you grew
up in a situation that there was rarely a sense
of stability or safety. There was constantly a new crisis.
And you don't really tell us writer kind of what
specifically gave you that CPTSD, But like, I appreciate that
energy that It's like, no, I just I don't sit still. Well.

(15:35):
I'm always kind of expecting the new thing. Whereas when
I'm surfing the wave of the experience, I'm on the
edge of it. I'm tipping back and forth. I don't
need to wait for the world to happen to me.
I'm happening to the world. Whereas at home quietly on
a Saturday, do you get like this, Do you feel restless?
I do, Like, if there's nothing to do and I

(15:56):
don't have a project and I'm just kind of supposed
to rest something about that feels weird to me.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
I have gotten good at the last couple of years
at being able to switch off.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
You can do it.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
It'd be like, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna take an
hour and fucking chill.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Do you ever feel guilty? Do you ever feel weird?

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Like I certainly have?

Speaker 2 (16:14):
I wasted this afternoon?

Speaker 4 (16:15):
Oh That's why I say, like I've gotten good at
it in the last couple of years, Like I wasn't always.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
I feel like I used to be better at it, Yeah,
but maybe since going into private practice, it kind of
seems like there's always like something you could be doing.
Like when when you're self employed or whatever, it's like
what else should I be should I've been doing this shit?

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Right?

Speaker 3 (16:33):
Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well that happens all the time in private practice because
like you'll you'll have like two sessions in the morning
and then you'll have a blank hour or a blank
two hours, and so you're like, Okay, I have this
break between you know, this part of sessions. In this part,
I need to be doing paperwork or I need to
get this thing done or whatever needs to get done.
And like there's this constant sense that if you have time,

(16:55):
do something with it, because another day you won't have
any time.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
And I mean and that easily can all come from
you know, home trauma growing up. I mean, if you
have an hour to relax, you know at the end
of that hour that somebody's coming home, and like you're
not gonna be able to even if nothing happens. You're
not gonna be relaxed, right.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
I do feel like that has been more self inflicted
for myself, like I was the opposite before. Actually, was
just thinking about this the other day that like for
me personally, I in the past have found TV very addicting.
For me, I will like some of it is modeled behavior,
just like modeled behaviors like living in chaos exist. But

(17:37):
then I would feel really bad that, like, oh I
just wasted my day or I like grotted my brain
or whatever. And I used to tell Peter, I'm like, man,
if we could just not have a TV, I just wouldn't.
It's like if I could just remove it, I would.
And He's like, behore, we're gonna wad football. And I'm like, fuck, solid.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Up a good point. Solid brings up a good point.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Don't like that. I'm like, well, so we have TV
in the bedroom? No, yeah, we have one TV in
our house.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
That's kind of where we draw the line too, Okay,
I don't want to.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
I have the theory on this. My theory is, if
you have kids, you want a TV in your bedroom.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
That's fair?

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Why oh, because they.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
Then they might be like watching something in.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
The lad Let them Bogart the big TV.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
I'll just want to watch it like an adults.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah. Yeah, we watch a lot of porn and it's
only in the bedroom because we're responsible.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, exactly, because that's where the kids hang out.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, exactly exactly. Did you guys go back to the
living room now, let me alone?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Okay, sweetie.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
So y'all don't have TVs in your bedroom? Where do
you mean, Jacob, I've been to your home. You have
a big TV in your main room.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
That's pretty much.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
It's on the porch, the porch.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, that's where that was.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
The other place we've thought about was hanging on porch.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, like we have we have an outside TV.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Did you'll have garage TVs?

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Like I grew up in Vegas? It is too hot? Yeah,
your ship would be.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh yeah, we have.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
We have the big one in the in kind of
our big room, and we have the one outside, and
we have one in our guest wing that like guests
watch I guess them.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah, okay, we.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
Have two others that are sitting in my storage room
right now that just are sitting there.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, no, I like the peacefulness. We didn't ever get
in a fight about that. But if we stayed in
hotel rooms, then the TV's there and I just like
kind of addicted, be like, oh, like what's on TV?
Like I just turned it on Peter B trying to
go sleep. He gets so pissed at being sorry, and
then I turn it off and he'd be all mad
at me the next s.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
J does love hotel TV.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
There's something about hotel the channels that we don't have,
like we don't have we don't have any of that.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Chef.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, especially back in the day, is like.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
A hotel and watch h G TV.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah. Yeah. My kids are fascinated by live television, and
so when we're at like a hotel, they're like, oh
my god, dad, TV's just on right now, And I'm like,
what the fuck are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Like television regular their.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Whole lives, TV has been on demand, like they just
sign in, like, hey, watch the show on Netflix, no ads,
and then they're like, oh my god, something like the
other day when not the other day. A couple of
years ago, I got my kids a handheld FM radio
changed their lives. They were like, oh my god, like
there's just playing and you can just I'm like, why

(20:35):
would you listen to this like an idiot. Whenever we
have Spotify, like they pay for Spotify, it's on your phones,
pick whatever song you're interested in. Like, no, no, this is
way cooler because like there's a whole station and it's
just like different songs you wouldn't have thought to listen to.
And I'm like, dude, this is upsetting.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
I miss radio a little bit, not so much the
ads and they just repeat the same five songs.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
It's always the same song anyway, So writer the.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Okay, Yeah, was it like their childhood making the decision
or is it them? I feel like that's kind of
a really interesting question or thought, which my opinion is
that our childhoods are what make us we are today.
I mean in a very like ooh you know.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, I think your childhood's definitely part of the equation.
I mean, to me, like getting in that headspace where
you're finding it that you're really restless whenever you're calm.
I wish I knew this solution to that. I feel
the same way, like I just I get like this
weird neuroticism of like, oh I'm bad, Like if I'm

(21:37):
doing if I'm doing nothing, I'm like oh, I'm letting
people down. I should be doing something better. I should
be researching or recording something for the show or doing
something better. And if I'm not doing anything and I'm
just like playing a video game or something like that, Yeah,
there is this weird like energy.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
That's sort of and then more stuff on. You're like, oh,
I got I started working here, I started. I'm like jump,
I know.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Doing it no, and it just makes my life so bad,
Like I just keep signing up for all these things.
And then my wife's like, dude, what the fuck? And
I'm like no, I'm so unhappy, like I need to
sell this, and she's like why do you keep doing that?
And I'm like I don't know, because like when I
have downtime, I'm like I need to do something, so
I take another job.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
I am so good at telling people I don't want
to work for them.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Ah, you need to come.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
Give my friends to call me and they're like, hey,
can you come, can you come work on this for me?

Speaker 1 (22:29):
And I say yes.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
I still I won't even let them pay me because
I'm like, I don't want to work for you. Oh okay,
I don't want to do any of like I'll come
over and just tell you out a little bit every
now and then. Yeah, but like I don't want to.
I don't want to add anything to it.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Obligation, that's it. You don't want the obligation, that's it.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Like I'm just showing up.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
I'll help out if I'm here. It's as a favorite,
that's right. And that's one hundred percent of the energy.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, I'd rather you owe me than give me one
hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Oh that makes so much sense. I know.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
My question too, is like is it can help? But
notice the pattern and thriving chaos, like is it a problem?

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, it's an interesting kind of dynamic, right, because it
seems like writer has found a way to surf this,
you know, like they've they've found that like, Okay, I
do well with chaos. Let me get myself involved in
things that are kind of chaotic and I succeed and
like great, kind of feel like.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Those people need to exist in this world.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Good.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, I'm glad you're the kind of person that can
parachute in and lead the tribe to success. Like we
need people like you. It is appreciated that this is
a difficult thing on your own though, that when you're
trying to just relax, there is this sense of like
I cannot quite turn my brain off. I always feel
like something bad is going to happen, And referencing back

(23:45):
to childhood, like I couldn't even be in a room
by myself, you know, like if somebody popped in the door.
I was always afraid of what was approaching me and
like just being caught off.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Guard, especially a lot of those formative years like zero
to four, zero five. I mean, gosh, so many neurons
are connected to them.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Did you have your own bedroom growing up?

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Okay, yeah I did too.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
I was like, there's only two of you.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
I know that. Like a lot of families are a
little bit strict about this kind of stuff where sometimes
it's like, oh you don't have a door, or like
you know, like there's some kind of transparency roles, or
like in this writer's case, like people are just kicking
in the doors all the time. I don't remember having
much of it, like a fear of like people walking in,
but I do remember being really embarrassed, like if I

(24:28):
was like playing with my g I Joe's or something, Yeah,
and somebody walked in. Even though it was a little kid.
I remember feeling like exposed and like scene and being
like no, like what an invasion this is, and just
feeling like humiliated. Do you relate to that?

Speaker 3 (24:43):
No, I do. I have one moment still at thirty eight.
It's ingrained in my mind.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Playing with your barbies at thirty eight, the g.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
I Joe's oh g yeah you know what.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
No, I don't know how old I was. Well, I
had to be older than eleven because okay, because of
a time like away. So I was at least eleven
and one of my parents basically like I was doing
something weird in the hallway, like dancing, I don't know,
like something goofy, and then I turned the corner and
like one of my parents was there. They were like, oh,

(25:16):
they were like that was weird.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Oh you got seen, Like yeah, that was weird.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
And it was like I felt like a judgmental weird.
And I swear every time after that, I was like
I'm weird or like, I don't know, it doesn't sound
as boad my state now maybe.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
No, but I get the emotional energy for a kid.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
I was just like, I don't know why sat with
me I was like, I can't be weird now, and
I hate that weird people are awesome like being weird
as being yourself. And there's so much tied into one statement.
I'm sure that parent doesn't even remember it. They don't
even remember it.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
I hear that story, and what for me really rings
in that is here an adjusted like doing fine therapist
is haunted by this easy childhood memory of a parent
stepping on their toes emotionally and the writers talking about
like legit complex PTSD, yeah right, and so like obviously

(26:08):
for them being haunted to the point where they can't
function in their day to day household and like on
their average weekend is feeling like completely unsettled, like they're
doing something wrong or like dangerous right around the corner.
It is so difficult, it is, and like, I'm really
glad that writer's talking, you know, to a therapist about
this and doing some work on this complex. PTSD is

(26:30):
very very hard to overcome, and like with most PTSD,
our goal is to sort of like get the splinter
out of your brain by like processing it enough times
and sort of like desensitizing you to it, catching things
like hey, why are you reacting? The way you do
in this scenario, like it doesn't make sense that you're
mean to your family like on a Saturday is because
you feel restless or whatever, like and bringing that to

(26:51):
your your awareness and then kind of like picking it
apart and like working on you know, sort of being
different about it. But see, PTSD is so much harder
because it's so formative. It's not like, oh, here's who
I was before the trauma and here's the weird bend
I've had after the trauma. Ce PTSD is shaping. Yeah,
and so it's really really difficult to overcome because like

(27:13):
it's hard to know where the trauma ends and where
I begin. You know, it's sort of like at a
genetic level, like so to speak.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
I'm proud of you that you can suffer through a Saturday. Honestly,
I'm not even joking by saying that. The fact that
you are at least trying, like making that effort to
like kind of like Jacob said, it took him something.
He's like took me into the last couple of years
to just like it's it's okay that I'm I'm here,
you know, not being busy, and I'm sure there are

(27:40):
little itches that pop up throughout that day or whatever
where it's like, oh, I could do this, Like nope, I'm.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Here, give or take anyway. Writer, good luck with this.
I mean, I love hearing that you're working on it.
I mean I wish we could, you know, I tell you,
here's one weird trick to solve it. It's not that way,
I mean, but I guess I would do want to
normalize what you're going through, because this stuff is formative,

(28:07):
it is haunting, and you know, even with good therapy,
it doesn't always go away. But what does happen is
we become very aware of ourselves and our reactions, and
so like we might not be able to control our
first reaction, but we can think it through as it's happening,
and we get better and better at like slowing that down,
which is tremendous because like obviously, when somebody walks in

(28:30):
and says, oh, hey, do you want to go to lunch,
we don't want your energy level to feel threatened or
you know, bring this kind of like antagonism against that person.
We don't want that to be what they sense in you,
and we don't want that to be the way you
emote at them right, And so like the fact that
you're doing that personal work, catching these things, slowing that down,
becoming self aware and processing it out is tremendous and

(28:50):
it's tough because like in these scenarios sometimes we can
even tell family members like, hey, it's not you. But
like I am startled really quickly if somebody comes into
a room, and like there's value to that, Like I
do see the value of like teaching people about ourselves,
and I can also see the other side of that,
which is like, hey, this is my thing, and like
I need to work on this. I can't ask the
world to accommodate me. So it is a hard thing. Writer.

(29:11):
But listen, I'm glad that you're working on this. I
appreciate the letter. I appreciate shining a light on this
kind of stuff. We don't get enough chances to talk
about c PTSD, and I just feel like you just
humanized it, which is really really necessary. Anyway, we're gonna
take a quick break and when we come back, we're
talking about feeling like I don't matter. You're listening to
pop therapy something.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Do you know it? What you you have that part
of the script, I mean, you sent me the script.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Is it written down to today's episode of That to
You by Jay Schneider, Richard Macy, Sunny Boy, Thunder Cooger.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
Falcon Soup, Slippery motherfucker, Sandra mcwaffle, and Gabriel Adam.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Would you have a sponsor a show?

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Become a therapy partner at dot com Therapy?

Speaker 3 (30:03):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Okay, good job Nick, he wrote things and Jacob actually
reads the script. All right, So Emma's new horse is
a pony soprano because everybody's aware that is the official
new horse. Okay, good Because all right, you may be
a bit fucked because today's questions are about the soprano,

(30:24):
all right, and I have all the answers. You two
are facing it off, and it's a two points if
you shoot from the hip or you can take.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
I feel like he has a good answer. That's true,
all Whitney, We're going to give you the first shot here.
What is the name of Tony Sopranos therapist two from
the hip, or you can get the options options all right,
Option A Gloria Trillo, Option B Lorraine Brocco, Option C

(30:57):
doctor Jennifer Melfie, or Option D doctor Elliott Kopferberg.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
The first who didn't have doctor in front of them.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
They did not.

Speaker 5 (31:06):
Then she got it right, Doctor Jennifer Melphy, I get
on the board ones that was covered contents.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
I feel since he had those ducks in the first episode,
I got very.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Solid show that that actually really resonates. And speaking of which,
number two, Jacob, what kind of animal does Tony become
obsessed with in season four seeing it as a symbol
for his family?

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (31:42):
No options until you ask for them?

Speaker 3 (31:44):
Oh, helped you for this episode one.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
She's got an encyclopedic knowledge.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
That sounds vaguely from options.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Give me the options are a bear, a duck, a dog,
a deer.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Raising animals?

Speaker 2 (32:05):
All right, get that point there?

Speaker 3 (32:08):
It is there we go.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Well done, Whitney.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Back to you, who was the first major character to
die on the show.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
In season one?

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Spoiler alertly.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Alright, your options are Jackie Alprelay, Senior Brendan Filone, Pussy Bond,
Penn Cerro or Richie a Prelay.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Actually no, the third one. We're watching the second episode
where the like the teacher's car is stolen the kids
like Pussy says.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
I was like, what what?

Speaker 3 (32:56):
I don't know because.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
That's only pussy Bond. Penn Sierro is in correct. And
you know what, I'm not going to tell you the
right answer because I don't want to ruin it.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Okay, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
All right, you're good, You're good, You're good, all right.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
So they wasn't him?

Speaker 2 (33:17):
One to one to zero a ka a tie game?

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Good job every way. Don't not get another question?

Speaker 2 (33:24):
You bet you're asked, you do, my man? Here we go.
Question number four. What is the name of Tony's favorite
strip club, which also serves as a front for his operations?
Is that that is the it's a good name.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Oh, it's the Bottom Ban Bottom Ban, that is. Yes.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Jacob jumps to three and takes a commanding lead in
the game. Well played, sir, well played. Good damn show
that is? So you know how I'm supposed to watch
a show and completion for forty four?

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Do you need me to get the killer out?

Speaker 4 (34:00):
No?

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Please, don't, please, don't any fact. But I've been working
on a watching a show. I've been watching Archer. Oh
my god, would that count?

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Funny?

Speaker 2 (34:09):
There's a lot of seasons, so I'm like, I'm just
working through season one.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
You know what, Jim I feel like you're slowing yourself
down enough. I don't think you need our help.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Okay, okay, did you watch all of Archer? It counts Yeah, okay, great,
I'll take a win.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
I have a question, though, somebody sent you the strawberry
plant to grow a strawberry that.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Died, that died that.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
I don't know why you even ask, and it's hurtful
that you brought it up that he grows and eats. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Emma sent me a strawberry plant and I grew it
and there was a strawberry, but I didn't eat it
because I was like, I don't think it's ready yet,
and so I kept it out of my porch. And
then the whole fucking thing.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
You're an idiot.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, I should just fucking that strawberry. That right off
the list.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
You know what you should do is just next time
you're out the store, get the green onions and just.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Just a little that's what.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
No, no, no, See, this is why a lot of
the things on my list I'm not that scared about,
because like the dolphins, that's not that hard. Like, if
you're in the ocean, there's dolphins in the ocean. Now,
what is the proximity rule, Jacob, you like be with
the dolphins proximity intimately because that's illegal everywhere, Okay to

(35:28):
Thailand it is. Then yeah, you can go to home
depot and you can just buy a strawberry bush and
it will have strawberries on it, and once I won't
have them if I have the receipt. At what point
do we know that I've grown this object?

Speaker 1 (35:41):
You'll know, don't. You don't my conscience, you'll know.

Speaker 4 (35:47):
No.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Fuck now, I.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Don't like this game now now now I have to
sit here and feel this like internal sense of shame, shame, shame, whatever,
feeling like I don't matter perfect Nick Whitney, Jacob and
j fuck Nick. Fairly new listener, I heard the cue
might be running low, and I thought, why not ask

(36:10):
a question? Bear with me, as this one may take
a little bit to unpack. I'm a male, and I'm
also a twin, or I was a twin, once a twin,
always a twin. My brother Caleb drowned in a swimming
pool when we were seven or eight. I remember bits
and pieces of him, of the funeral, and how things

(36:30):
changed immediately after. I didn't fully grasp what losing him meant,
and I'm still kinda I still kind of can't because
I feel like I'm being forced into living for both
of us. After his death, my parents kind of weaponized
Caleb's memory against me. When good things happen in my life,
they'd say it's because he's watching over me growing up.

(36:51):
When I made even the slightest mistake, failed to class,
got into a fight forgot to call home, they'd tell
me that Caleb was disappointed and ashamed of me.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
This trend has continued into adulthood. My dead brother gets
all the credit for the successes, and every time I
missed up, I'm reminded by my parents of how I'm
a disgrace to him. Because of this, I've never felt
like i'm enough on my own. I'm not just me,
I'm what's left of us. Fast forward to nowish. My

(37:23):
wife and I are expecting our first child. It's going
to be a boy, and we're thrilled. However, my mother
became fixated on us. Oh, you guessed it, Caleb. She said,
it's the right thing to do and the only thing
that makes sense. Bullshit. Then a few weeks ago, my
mother passed away unexpectedly. Wow as you can imagine we're

(37:48):
all still in shock. It's bringing back a lot of memories,
both good and bad, emotional and difficult. I tried to
pull my dad aside the other day and comfort him
by telling telling him that Mom is with Caleb now,
and he absolutely lost it on me. He told me
I had no right to talk about either of them

(38:08):
that way, and that I don't understand anything. I feel
like I've let everyone down, my mom, my dad, my brother,
But mostly I feel like I don't have a voice
in my own life. I want to honor my family,
but I also want to build something new with my
wife and our son. I want my child to be

(38:29):
his own person and not a constant reminder of the
grief I've spent my whole life caring. Am I being selfish?
Is it too much to ask to leave the past
in the past and build my own life? How do
I help support my dad without angering him. I don't
want to forget the memories I have of my brother.
I don't want to forget my mother or go against

(38:51):
her wishes either, But at some point, I just want
to know what it feels like to not be a
constant disappointment to those that are supposed to be closest
to me. Thanks, Adam, you.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Have to name your son mother.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Oh that's it, okay, or we had some leftover names
from the horse context, okay, Pony Soprano's off the table, Adam,
you can't have it.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
But George Bush hates black babies. That is offensive. It
was clearly horses.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Oh dare you?

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Oh dare you?

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Sully the game?

Speaker 1 (39:32):
But the writer doesn't have a horse.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Okay, all right, you know what expecting a horse hates
black full name. Writer to your problem, my man, you
know what you were writing into.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Well, First of all, I'm sorry for so much loss. Yeah, yeah, congratulations,
I know.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yes, And I bet that feels weird.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
I'll bet like being happy about something has gotta feel weird.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
My god.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
Yeah, you have the right to be it's it's a
wonderful thing. You have the right to be happy about it.
You have the right to uh you certainly, as you
know intellectually, you have the right to name this baby
anything you want to name it, as long as it's Jacob.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
That one's taken. Yeah, you can't have it, but no,
it's it's it really is fascinating.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Please name your son Jacob. Junior. Of course.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
There's a level we could we can direct some Patreon money.
We get pay for this kid's college if they're willing
to sell naming rights.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
If you name this kid Jacob junor just forever, You're like,
who's the junior from this podcast?

Speaker 1 (40:46):
James Adam. But it's a good name. I don't expect
to name that kid after my last name.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
No, no, no, that would be silly.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
That would be ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
You're toping ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
We're talking about a serious stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Of course, this is a human being they need to know.
But you know, it really is fascinating. I mean, you
think about how I think identity developed. This this component
is like it's one thing to lose a sibling, right,
and like that's already transformative, and it would definitely change
your family. And of course it's gonna just fuck up

(41:25):
your parents, right, and they are going to be different
to you for the rest of your life. And clearly
they coped by constantly referring to the lost sibling as
a way of like, you know, being okay with you know,
celebrating you and being okay with being happy that somehow
there is this tipping of the cap to the lost child.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
An old friend of mine had this happened to her.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
She had one of her children die and her youngest
and she has I believe three surviving children that are
I think all of them are teenagers. Now one of
them might be like a preteen or something, but they're
they're in that age group. And yeah, I see her

(42:07):
when when I see her in person, when I see
her online, she copes by talking about him every day.
That is, you know, she talks to other children about him,
She talks to strangers about him, She talks to friends
about him. You know that that is just how she
copes with it. I know other people that have lost
children that you know, they have never mentioned their their

(42:29):
children again after that. But yeah, this particular woman, you know,
that's it sounds kind of like your parents, you know,
they they do just they're so like I know, but
you know, part of it, to me looks like they
are so desperate. They're so very desperate to keep that
memory alive that they're doing anything they can to keep

(42:51):
that memory alive.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
It's a tremendous burden and they're doing it.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Uh And I say this word with with love, but
they're doing it thoughtlessly.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Yeah, they are not thinking about how that is affecting
other people like yourself, right, And it's and it's hard
to it's honestly hard to ask them to yeah, because
it is a it's such a shitty thing, and I.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Mean it's such shitty thing that like it's it's a
shitty thing that happened to everyone.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
No, no, one is obviously good from from this.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
No.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
But at the same time, like you do you see
that from time to time.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
You do, And you know, it's interesting because you think
about Adam's situation. I mean, it's one thing to lose
a sibling already, I think is just a earth shattering reality.
It's another thing for your parents to have lost the child,
which is going to fundamentally change them for the rest
of your experience with them. But then to add in
this component that this is your twin that your twin

(43:49):
brother who was in your life for seven or eight years,
you know, and then you lose this person and like
enough time's gone by that you can remember them the
way you remember like an early childhood friend, you know.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
Like yes, guilt and the guilty goes along with that, right,
Like I remember this person as a friend, not as
a sibling like that's got and that's got to be tricky.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
With the parents too, sure, who are constantly dealing with
their own coping by holding vigil you know, for the
lost child. And then here you are, and it's like
you would feel guilty or dishonorable to not bring them up.
And then here's a moment where your mom passes, and
of course your first way to try to like help

(44:35):
your father and appease him or try to, you know,
just soothe him is to bring up the thing he
and mom have been saying for years, right, which is like, hey,
she's with Caleb. Now, sure that's what we always said,
that was the ritual, and then shut the fuck up.
I can't handle this, and that that opens up a

(44:57):
ton of questions for me, right because like I'm curious,
like for Dad, maybe that was mom's coping skill.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Did wonder today, like maybe.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
That was more Mom in the system. And Dad just
kind of like yep, nod in his head going with
it to say, it's not personally good for him to
hear that or dwell upon that, but he can see
that his spouse is coping with that. He too feels
a softness for the loss this is fine, and now
it's it's like the straw that broke the camel's back.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Yeah, I really would go throughout that when you were
growing up in all of that pressure put onto you,
and then with your mom passing now and your dad
reacting to that way, all of that is them. That
is their way of coping, way of rationalizing, way of
bringing him up. Still like none of that, sadly has

(45:48):
anything to do with you. Really, like that is all
of them. I can't imagine losing a child. I've I've
had cousins who have passed, and my aunts are never
the same, They're never like it's it's a dark, a
dark path to watch, and so uh you being and
it sounds like the only other living sibling, Like there

(46:09):
were there was only the twins and now just one.
You are carrying all of that through childhood and now
into adulthood with your mom passing. Man, it's got to
feel really lonely. We could go into a little bit
of like birth order stuff. My opinion is that when

(46:30):
children grow up as like only children, there is a
there can be a lack of a sense of like
reality almost to like what you experienced growing up. It
can make you feel a little like crazy sometimes or
like unsure of what you went through and having all
of that trauma wrapped in that and growing up as
basically an only child since age seven or eight, Like, oh,

(46:53):
fuck me, that is a lot to sit with. And
so I think I I mostly just want to remind you, Adam, that,
as much as I can, this is not about you.
Your dad snapping on you. He's lost a child and
he's lost his wife now, and I'm so sorry that
he did snap on you, because I would be just

(47:14):
as confused and hurt and shocked as you are. And
then going into like, wow, I thought I was doing
the right thing. This is what I've been told and
trained my whole life growing up, and here I am
coming in, I'm doing the right thing. I'm saying the
right thing, and just whip right back and it's just
you two left, Like that has to be just shocking,

(47:36):
But yeah, it's that's just him and his grief right now.
And I really encourage you, like it's not your job
to have to say everything right way, like, please try
and let go of that. And I say that very
oversimplifying that statement, yeah, because we're.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Just that, Yeah, yeah, we don't want this to be
your burden to the point where you're so supposed to
know the very delicate dance of what Dad needs in
a given moment. How can anybody know, Even though you
are a part of his system and you know him
very well and you grew up with him, no human
can possibly know what this man is all about.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Right now.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
He lost a kid. Whenever that kid was seven or
eight years old, he raised a surviving twin son growing up.
Throughout your life, Adham, whether you liked it or not,
Dad looked at you sometimes and thought of Caleb. And
there is no words for what that experience was like,
even in your finest moments where he's like, look at
my young man, he's growing up. I'm so proud of him.
And yet what about Caleb? Is this dishonorable that I

(48:40):
love Adam so much and I'm so excited for Adam,
Like all of that weird survivor guilt that you've been
enmeshed with your entire life. Your father was Party two
and now here he's lost the only other human who
fully shared his story. And it sounds like she was
a little off. She had adapted in her own ways.

(49:02):
All of us would look at a human who went
through that and think, well, the mom's gonna lose it,
Like she's just going to be a different person, a
little cuckoo after that. Sounds like Mom was pretty eccentric
in some ways, yes, and pretty imposing in some of
her coping skills, and it, you know, sounds like you
relate to that based on what you're sharing. And I'm
sure Dad kind of saw that sometimes and thought I'm
picking my battles like I'm not gonna, you know, get

(49:23):
involved and fight this woman on this stuff. She's broken.
I'm broken.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
You see a lot with more strong personality people, they
will have partners who kind of go along with right, So.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yeah, if one person kicks it into high gear, the
other one's kind of like becomes a passenger and it's like, look,
I'm not really gonna stir up a lot, but I'm
just going along with this. And so writer, it's interesting
because like Mom was the one pushing you to say,
you're having a son replace my dead son, right, like
name him after your brother. That is honorable, that's what

(49:55):
you're meant to do. You didn't quite comments in your
letter giving us any clues to what Dad wants. I
think the only clues we got were that Dad is hurting,
and that when you tried to soothe the dad with
the common ritual of the family, Dad's sort of snap.
And I think for Whitney and I we're interpreting that
in all sorts of ways, like that could mean Dad

(50:16):
was sort of hostage to Mom's emotions too all this time,
and it's sort of like please fucking stop, like that's enough, right, Yeah,
there could be this like anger of like, hey, I
dealt with this shit for a long time from your
mother and like that's enough. I don't have words for this,
but this just fucking hurts, and it never felt good
to constantly bring this up, and I don't want to
hear this shit anymore. Maybe it could just be that

(50:38):
Dad's just in a bad place and he's grieving and
he's raw, and he just doesn't have words and he
does want to be soothed. Right now, we're told anything
good because it feels dismissive of a loss that cannot
be calculated. It's impossible for us to fully get a
grip on like what the realities are. But you do
bring up this sense of like just over assuming personal responsibility,
especially with mom being gone. And look, I know you

(51:00):
don't need permission from some voices on your phone and
on a podcast, but it helps. But it helps because
I do want us to recognize that from our chairs here,
we look at this and we say, look, the story
that you came from and the tragedies that you've survived,
you do not owe your child's life to that history.

(51:21):
And that's a really important thing. Like so many humans,
and especially just to take it to American history for
a moment, how many people had escaped incredible histories and
incredible times in their country of origin and came to
America and got this whole fresh start and have this child.
And there could be the sense of like, I need
to pay homage to the stories and the legacies and

(51:43):
the histories and the peoples that have delivered me up
to this moment and the incredible but then you realize
none of that shit will matter to this kid. This
kid deserves to have a completely fresh start. They do
not need to have our legacy and our history constantly
pulled over them as if they owe something to the past.
I don't want to burden them with that. And of course, Adam,

(52:04):
you've lived that. So, like, I think you, more than anybody,
understand how important it might be to not burden your
son with any reference to the past.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
Yeah, I say, how wonderful that your child hopefully will
never know what that pressure feels like because of what
you've been through. Like, yeah, I can imagine that that
will be one of the things you fight for the most,
is giving your child their individuality.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yes, they've been through this. You mean you lived with this,
you know aching and this constant you know peace, And
of course it is only a tragedy that you've lost
your mother. It is only a tragedy. I'm not going
to say there's any silver lining to this. It is
only a tragedy. She also was the one who apparently
was the historian and the one who is kind of

(52:51):
carrying the torch of the past as her main coping skill.
And so I do think that your son, you don't
have to worry that your son's going to be constantly
told about this, or that you're going to be I
think shamed for not naming your son Caleb. I think
from what I'm picking up, your father doesn't necessarily hold

(53:12):
all that thinking. And so it sounds like you are
sort of free to move forward, which itself I think
can make a guy feel really ashamed, especially if his
whole life he's been sort of told like the honorable
thing is to reflect on your brother and to think
about this. And now you're sort of free of that
because the court or the torch bearer, your mother is

(53:32):
no longer here at that table, holding that space, but
like we still feel the gravity of her words and
like what she would say in all these scenarios. And
I'm sure that that unspoken content is there between you
and your father, But I think over time that that dwindles,
and I think over time you feel freer and freer
to move on.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
I think it's complicated too, because sometimes when people, especially
die unexpectedly in the midst of of such life changing events,
it's like you don't really have a chance to even
have closure about it, like I would imagine. I would
imagine it's hard to not be like, well, okay, I
want to name my child something else, and I didn't

(54:14):
even have a chance to like just let my mom
know that, you know what I mean, Like the closure
that comes with sorting through that, it's just feels like
betrayal instead, which.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Adam talks about like the sense of like I'm not
honoring my mother's wishes, And look, I want to be
careful because like in my personal family and my personal culture,
I don't have that sense of like I'm dishonoring an
older generation by not obeying what they tell me to do.
I say whatever I want, you know, but like I

(54:45):
respect that there are cultures where that's not how this works.
You know, like it is normal to obey your elders,
even on something as intimate as naming a child, and
like they have a vote and it is really important
to you, maybe religiously, maybe culturally, And so I want
to respect that, Adam, even though you didn't give us

(55:06):
that subtext, you do talk about like struggling with feeling
like you're not fulfilling your mother's final desires here, And
so I guess I just look at that and I say,
you know, I want to be really careful because I
don't want to step on your cultural toes. I don't
want to presume to know what's right in that scenario.
But boy, therapeutically, I want to talk a lot about
authenticity and I really want this is your child, and

(55:29):
like this is your family, and it's your future, and
Caleb is part of your family tree, but he is
not this child, yeah, you know, and I relate to this.
I mean like I had a friend die of cancer
and there was this time in my life where I thought,
if I had another son, I would name my son
after my dead friend. And I kind of went through
an experience with that for a while, and then we

(55:52):
were pregnant and we were kind of preparing to find
out the gender and I remember thinking, like, you know,
am I going to follow through on that? Because I
had shared with some people like that was my intention,
and I kind of was thinking that through at the
time of like if this turns out to be a boy,
am I going to do that? And I remember before
we learned the gender, deciding for myself.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
No.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
I think that I've honored my friend as and I've
cried as many tears as I can, and I've given
as much, you know, like homage of pain as I'm
meant to give. And a child is a celebration of
the future. And I want this person's life to be
defined by this other person's story. That has nothing to
do with that.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
It's also putting baggage on the kid.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
It really is it?

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Really is?

Speaker 2 (56:36):
It really is.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Well, and that I gotta tell you there's very little baggage.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
No, there's no baggage.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
I mean you want you.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
To be very serious about it, Yeah, to be very serious,
unlike my asshole co hosts. You want to choose a
name that's presidential, you know, you want to choose a
name that is athletic, you know, equine, Yeah, a name
that resonates with history, that moments, Yeah yeah. And he

(57:06):
also speaks to culture and speaks to the nuances of
race ye black people.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
So I got it.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Yeah, Georgie for sure.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Rock Hussein, Obama Junior. Oh, Whitney.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
If you ever randomly get pregnant, I really hope you
bring it to the and just try the people. We
will pay this kid's college.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
But if you want to name your kid Jacob, that's great,
that's fine.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Or George Bush hates black people either way completely, or
Barack Obama or Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself. Also on
the board, nobody was bold enough to put it up there,
but I wanted to see it.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
I can't imagine that your child would have any drama
attached to that.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Not at all. By the time there are like ten
people won't even remember anymore practically ancient history anyway, by Adam,
good luck with this, Thank you for writing in. It
is a great opportunity to reflect on the nuances of
a very very unique situation. But friend, at the end
of the day, I'm sure anybody hearing this story is
thinking as we're thinking, boy do we hope this gets
to be your story. We hope this gets to be

(58:14):
your child's story, and the sadnesses of people lost in
the past can be about their names and their truths
and their history through your eyes, but that this child
doesn't have to bear their name as some kind of
penance for something they never experienced. So I hope that's
something you're free of. But again, I want to respect
your culture, your truth, your history, and I just hope
that there's somebody in your life, hopefully a therapist, that

(58:36):
you're talking through this intimately with and just getting out
those feelings, and hopefully with your spouse, because that can
be something very nuanced where they're not sure how to
correct you or challenge you because they don't want to
hurt you. They know you're going through so much loss,
but perhaps in their mind they're thinking I don't want that,
you know, and like I don't want to feel dishonorable
to you by taking those off the table. So I'm

(58:57):
not going to say straight up no, but if you
ever lean towards the might have a problem with it.
And so like, it's just really good to make sure
you're talking in therapy about this kind of stuff, because
I think you're gonna get to better answers.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
On that faster.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Anyway, Adam, good luck with that. We're gonna take a
quick break and when we come back, we're talking about
unemployment avoidance.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
You're listening to pod therapy.

Speaker 6 (59:18):
Today's episode is brought to you by people and other
people and Jake Schneider and Malia and Richard Macy and
Sonny Boy and under Cooper Fact Scoop and Sturt the
Kid Motherfucker and Sandra mcwaffle and Alena and Gabriel Madame.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Just wanted to show how somebody else I want to.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
I just like to mix it up all right, Back
to this pony soprano trivia. The game is currently Jacob
and the lead with a solid three commanding lead. Some
might say Whitney with a paltry one, but she's ready
I'm pretty proud.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
I'm gonna be honest.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Based on two episodes of viewing proud. Yeah, you are
not doing as bad as one man.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
What's that thing in school? The weighted great is right?

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Curve curve that thing? Question number five for Whitney, what
does Carmela that very good? Often?

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
She got it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
What is what does she sibstentially struggle with throughout the series?

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Existentially?

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Yeah, okay, options, gambling, addiction, her own criminal past, her
Catholic faith, and complicity in Tony's misgivings or personal substance abuse.
I think see that is correct degrees. Girl got it.

(01:00:37):
She's staying compared to me, and I like that, right, Yeah,
that's the catholic one. I like that. We're also giving
you some things to look forward to.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
I'll forget it anyway, no.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Spoilers, and like, has he ever seen it? Watched?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
He has?

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
He watched the second episode with me. He's like, you
want watch another one?

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
I was like, no, it is very it's so good.
I think I watched the first two seasons and then
they kind of drifted away, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
No, it's Oh they referenced so much ship that is
so old. They're stealing like laser players.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
I was like, laser.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
They're like between DVDs and records.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Yeah, I don't know, I remember those.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
You never had laser discs in school growing up, Damn.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
That's the only place I ever saw them was in school.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
I only ever saw them.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
They play them on a TV or.

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Like school districts would invest in them because they thought
that was going to be like the future technology.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Too small, I think laser disc That must have been
part of laser disc's business plan was get them into
silves and get kids comfortable with them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Oh yeah, and then hope they were they really were.
They were. They were DVDs that were the size of
a record album.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
They were huge.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
They were just ridiculous, and they were so expensive.

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
Yes, and they didn't like they didn't record as much
data on one as you would think they should, so
you'd still have to switch the disc.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, the whole thing. VHS was just way superior and cheap.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
And she was Yeah, so totally that was the way
to go.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Well, good, I'm glad we got to cover that. Jacob
back to You, which character is revealed Oh closure ears Whitney,
which character is revealed to be an FBI informant in
season two.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Oh is that pussy? That might be pussy? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Oh no, she heard me.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Oh, I don't know what the question was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Oh goody later, But all right, okay, you get two points.
You are sitting around at five to Whitney's two. Back
to Whitney, Whitney, what does Tony feed to the ducks
in his pool? In the pilot episode This girl was
made for you? I mean, come the fuck on. I

(01:02:50):
know it's fifty percent of all the episodes you've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
I know, but I watched that one like two months ago.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Okay, two episodes options?

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Yeah, all right, bread, corn, sausage, or crumbs from a canol?

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
How is one of the options not duck food? I know,
it's just.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Like a responsible duck arm. You said crumbs of bread, corn, sausage,
crumbs from a canole.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
I feel like my sea has been my ride or
die so.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Lifted she heard Sea has been working it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
I know feels weird, but I feel like they would
the canoli. It's hard to not choose that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
I'm gonna go with sea sausage. False it is corn?

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
Who would feed sausage to ducks?

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
My ducks loved corn?

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Well yeah, you should have picked corn.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
I thought you was an idiot.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Are ducks carnivores?

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Can they eat?

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
They eat kind of anything.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
I feel like they.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
Eat duck food. We throw it out and it would
like find it was like give me that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
I love it when I love how they stab the
water with their beaks.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
And it's aggressive.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
That's exciting. Jacob, did already give you two in this round?

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
I say yes, Let's say yes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Because you are crushing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Don't matter, You're going to just.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Got you by a lap. Last question of the night,
feeling like I don't matter? Nick Whitney, Jacob, Jim, Wait
a minute, fairly new listener, Nope, that was the one
we already did. Last question of.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
The night unemployment avoidance, Jim, Nick and Whitney. I'm a
long time listener, first time caller. I'm writing in today
because I know your question Q reservoir is running.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Fuck you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
But I could also use some life advice. If only
there was a certified.

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
Life coach, I could ask, heyway jumping straight almost five
years now, and I feel incredibly guilty about it, specifically
towards my parents but also myself. My parents are the
ones that financially support and I feel like a leech
that's just sitting around watching life pass me by.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
I don't think that's fair to leeches.

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
I think leeches do a lot of work to do, gather,
they work, they have to find things to feed on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Yeah, they just do a lot of work. I think
you're really under selling the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Fair the mighty leech ignorant.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
I've worked a couple of jobs postgrad, and I've been
at two different jobs for just under four to five
years total.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
But my last job got burnt out and depressed. Probably
got me burnt out.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Yep, yeah, yep, I got burnt out.

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
But at my last job, I got burnt out and depressed,
which made me quit on my own terms.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
It was a very comfy job, but I really couldn't
take it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
I was almost suicidal and abusing alcohol and weed, sometimes
smoking on the job to numb the pain. During this time,
I started leaning into exercising way more, using exercises a
way to give myself pain that I felt I deserve.
Fast forward a couple of years, I've successfully quit the
alcohol and the weed and have still been hitting the gym,

(01:05:58):
working out almost daily, learning to love it. I'm working
on my full driver's license, and I'm trying to build
up something more meaningful. Yep, Okay, I'm making good general progress,
but I still feel very lost in my career and life.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
I've been lost for the past five years.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
Sure, the years are getting better, but in comparison to
the people around me, I'm so way behind in terms
of most people.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
I'm trying my best, but I still feel like a loser,
which makes me avoid people.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
I carry this shame and guilty I'm not worthy of
people because I can't provide for them, especially a problem
in meeting new people and in dating, which I'm also
avoiding right now. See the pattern. I know I shouldn't
compare myself to other people. You know we're gonna say
that you've listened.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Monches, you asshole.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:44):
I know I shouldn't compare myself to other people. And
I know there's more to life than having a career
and or money. I'm aware I don't need to provide
to have worth. I have many different attributes that can
provide value, but I can't shake this feeling off that
I need to be working. Problem is I now have
an avoidance of work. I don't want to look for
a job. I don't want to have to go through

(01:07:06):
rounds of interviews proving my worth. I don't want to
embarrass myself. I don't want to be seen. It makes
my knees weak. I also don't have any IRL friends,
and I only leave my house to go Jim and
run basic errands. I assume I have a lot of
trauma and guilt around working, given my natural avoidance to
the subject, but my environment is also very enabling to

(01:07:27):
these avoidance behaviors. I attribute most of my behaviors to
pass discomforts at work events, but also my upbringing. Do
you have any insights or advice on how I can
move forward to be less avoidant of my fears and
feelings of inadequacy. I'd love to not be so avoidant
about everything. Love the show, Keep it up U three ps.
I love you too, Jacob PPS. But Jim's what is

(01:07:51):
that supposed to say?

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Neuroticism?

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
That's probably it. But Jim's neuroticism feeds my soul. Thanks
for all the laughs, Jim. I appreciate you more than
you could ever know. Fuck the police, the police, Sam
signed cunt wallet Battleship Destroyer two.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Oh good. I'm glad that there's a two because I
wouldn't want to get you confused. Thank you, cunt wallet,
battleship destroyer, Prime Prime Senior Esquire. I'd hate to see
that happen. This is a really good question. Yeah, this
is really really good just and I get the impression
that writer doesn't give us any time stamps to tell

(01:08:27):
us how old they are. I'm getting the earlier side
of life, you know, I'm kind of It gives vibes
of like I'm getting my license, you know, I'm kind
of like looking for self identity, looking for work, but
I'm I'm avoidant of work. I don't want to look
for a job. I don't want to go through interviews.
I don't want to try to prove my worth. I
don't want to feel that sense of embarrassment. I don't
want to feel exposed. That is so fucking relatable.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
That is especially if you're in an enabling environment, like oh,
it is really hard to pull out of that because
it's like when we talk about anxiety or treating anxiety
or obsessive compulsive behaviors, the hardest thing is not as
having family members who are enabling. It's like, oh did
I did I lock my bedroom door. Can we turn

(01:09:10):
around and do it and do it? Because they're like, oh, well,
there's no harm in a minute late, you know, whatever
the story is in their mind, but they do it,
and so that just feeds like feeds the monster kind of.
And so if you are in an environment where they're like,
you don't have to worry, just take your time, work
on you. They care about you, it sounds like, you know,

(01:09:31):
they're they're trying to be carrying towards you, but you're like, uh,
it just doesn't help. I don't have I have a
lot of anxiety around getting out there applying for jobs.
Probably could be due to pass you know, struggles and jobs.
If you're a fucked up experience at a job, it
doesn't make you really want to go get another one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Right well, and writer seems to already kind of struggle
with this sense of like self worth. I mean this
this point that the writer kind of made very subtly
about I was working out to experience a pain that
I felt I deserved. And that's tricky, you know, yeah,
because like okay, you know, Freud talked a lot about

(01:10:11):
positive neuroses and like all right, you know, like we
find these ways to cope with life. And maybe they're
not bad. Like I'm not out there, you know, shooting
up drugs. I'm over here getting healthier and people admire
that I'm working hard on my body or things like that.
But like, fundamentally, it's a it's an expression of self hatred.

(01:10:33):
Like it's self harm in a way, but like geared
in a positive light. I don't have an answer for that.
I'm not going to simplify it and say a good
thing or bad thing, but it's it's fascinating. I think
it's very interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
I to speak to that a little bit. I don't
know that I maybe do it. I don't know what
the writer's doing, to be honest when they say, like
I'm working out to the point of pain, but I
do sometimes when I'm feeling very anxious, I'm like, I
just want to go, like go on a run. But
the point on the run is to like almost feel
your lungs, that that pain in your lungs when you're

(01:11:08):
like breathing. I don't know, do you know what that.

Speaker 6 (01:11:11):
Where?

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
It's just like that sharp pain almost in your like
esophagus or something. Right, Yeah, I don't know, it almost
like it tickles my brain or something. It's like there's
something to a version of that that makes sense. Fel
like you're exerting yourself so hard. I don't know if
I've ever thought about it enough to feel like, oh,
this is me trying to inflict pain, or it's just
like I.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Well, and maybe we're oversimplifying it by making it just
as simple as you're inflicting pain. There's something about making
tangible something that is emotional, and I think a lot
of us do that, and that's a very real thing
where sometimes like I want to go work out and
I want to feel the resistance of this weight and
I want to feel the burn in my muscles, like

(01:11:53):
a challenge to yourself. I want to make it real
because I'm dealing with something I don't know how to
language or how to put a finger on. I need
to experience this differently and metabolize the emotion so absolutely,
of course, like running would do that, working out would
do that. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that
at all. I just wanted to shine a light on

(01:12:13):
it because you know, it tells us a little bit
more about the same profile aple.

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
Of different ways of quote self harm, like for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Well, and it certainly seems to maybe cascade into this
writer's talk about like, Hey, I'm dealing with a lot
of like struggle with being seen and sort of putting
myself out there, and like, you know, I have this
incredible avoidance that's beyond mirror, you know, like social phobia.
There is this really complex energy, you know, surrounding this

(01:12:44):
and it's interesting because I mean that kind of does
hold hands with yeah, and like I used to like
work out to the point of hurting myself to sort
of feel like I deserved that, and so it's like
a self flagellation sort of energy, and it's just it's
an interesting right, Like I shuffle those cards together in
the same deck and I start to go, oh, okay,

(01:13:05):
like that that's fascinating, right, And if I was that
person's therapist, we'd be doing a lot of talk about
like how what kind of meaning are you ascribing to
like your everyday interactions and like how you assume other
people are thinking about you, and how many units of
energy you think other people give toward thinking about you,
and like just right sizing a lot of that because
especially at a young age, I think we can definitely

(01:13:27):
have this sense that like we feature in other people's
experiences so big, and we become so like, oh my gosh,
like I've done wrong or I've failed, or I'm unimpressive
or I'm underwhelming, and it's like, I don't know, it's
hard to describe what that is, but it's this thing
of like making ourselves wrong sized in the plot and

(01:13:48):
and like forgetting that, Oh no, you are one of
ten interviews today. You're interesting, and they're gonna hire somebody
that can scoop the ice cream. That's kind of it,
Like you don't have to overthink this.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
Yeah, I would be curious. You know. They mentioned like
I can't shake this feeling off that I need to
be working. That was kind of an interesting line to me,
and my question back would be like, well, where do
you think that comes from? Yeah, you know, you could
easily say, oh, society or this or that, and but
I think for the person, I'm always surprised whenever I
think I know what answer a client will say and

(01:14:22):
then they give you kind of like something yeah, surprised.
But those are my favorite moments. Oh yeah, because I'm like, oh, good,
glad I asked. Yeah, but yeah, I wonder what you
would say, is like why do you feel you need
to be working and well?

Speaker 2 (01:14:37):
And that greater narrative of inadequacy that the writer talks
about the end of the letter, like saying, hey, I
struggle with this, yeah, this sense that like I'm not
enough and therefore that is part of it too, which
I you know, I appreciate the writer's perspective here because
it's something These dots I don't connect very often, but
they should be connected because they're very relatable. Like a
human who is struggling with the sense of inadequacy and

(01:15:00):
like hypersensitivity of self and like fear, and then asking
them to go out and do job interviews, which you're
already on the top ten list of things people just
naturally are pretty aversive to. They're not looking forward to.
It's considered a very anxious moment. Your worth is being
sized up on a monetary level, and like you're going
to be ascribed identity as you look for a job

(01:15:23):
and all this pieces and like here's this human who's
already struggling with the sense of like self doubt and inadequacy,
and then that also restlessness feeling of like but I
don't feel good being lazy and doing nothing, So I
can't just retire in my twenties and a piece with that,
Like I feel like I should be doing something, but
then I'm crushed every time I try. And so now
here I am in this weird catch twenty two that

(01:15:44):
I need to find something, and it's tough because, like
I feel like a lot of people these days, they
seem to have ironically, because I think AI is going
to kill its all.

Speaker 3 (01:15:53):
Whitney, Well, it's something going to take over all the jobs,
all the jobs.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
It's all coming back to, Yes, we need tis. Hopefully
we get those checked out, get those cranberry juices flowing,
cranberry rick. That's right, somebody needs them cranberries. But like
I think about, like how ironic it is that young
people today often their first job is a gig job,

(01:16:18):
like they're delivering for Uber Eats, you know, or they're
working for Instacart, And like that's interesting, right, because I
think a lot of our first jobs, millennials, we didn't
often have the option of picking something that was non interactive.
A lot of times your first job really was the
frontline person, Like you're the clerk, you know, or you're

(01:16:38):
the the valet, or you're the concierge person, like you're
just the front desk. You're the job that people don't want,
which is usually like the interactive jobs. Yeah, a lot
of people jobs. Or you're working at a fucking kiosk
at the mall, like selling cleaner for sneakers or whatever
it is, like those are the jobs, you know, and
like it's interesting, right retail fast food, Like yeah, you're
a waiter, and like you just think, like, wow, that's

(01:16:59):
so interesting that like a lot of people now can
kind of find these roles that they don't necessarily have.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
To stay isolated.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Yeah, and that's that's pros and cons. I'm sure like
in some ways I think, oh good, I'm glad there's
a lane to accommodate people that that would have not
been very good. But then another part of me thinks,
and yet humans seem to need to be challenged.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
It's reminded me of this story I just read. I
started reading a book called When Panic Attacks. Oh. The
first like one of the first stories the writer shares
is how they were very averse to like blood. Oh okay,
but because they're like a doctorate or whatever doctor, they
went through a very.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
A doctorate is a girl doctor.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Yeah, okay, I don't know if they went into psychiatry
or what, but they've been through some med school basically.
So part of that was a small bit where they
had to go and you know, do medical stuff. And
so they were in like a hospital doing their residency
or whatever it's called. In probably talking out my ass,
but they were there and someone came in and was

(01:18:02):
just like blood everywhere all this like that's why they
were not choosing to be a doctor. But they had
to spend like this semester, you know, in this environment.
And they said that going through that in the moment,
it's almost like that exposure therapy in some ways, like
extreme exposure therapy. They got through it and they were like, oh, okay,

(01:18:22):
like now I can I not that they want to
pursue a medical field thing, but they were like, oh,
blood doesn't bother me as much because I was like thrown,
you know, thrown in the deep end of the pool
like pretty quickly, or for them, the deep end, And
that kind of sat with me because I'm like, wow,
it made me challenge things like I've never settled well
with like the side of blood or whatever. But the

(01:18:42):
reality is us as humans, we adapt, and if I
had to see blood every day, I probably like just
get used to. I wouldn't love it, I'm sure, but
I wouldn't be like, oh I'm queasy and like, uh, like.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
I'm fine with blood. I'm fine with most things. The
smell of vomit gets made.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
Oh yes, oh yeah, okay, oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
Around people bleeding profusely. Yeah, around people caused a lot
of it. Yeah, yeah, you were the culprit. Yeah, yeah,
the cause of and solution to Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
The blood doesn't bother me. I'll get somebody else's blood
all over me. Yeah, like that's part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
Yeah, but like I don't like all the is there
like or whatever, But yeah, yeah, to me, it's just
the idea that you're there's blood outside your body or
I don't know what where the blood.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
Yeah. Have you ever seen those videos where somebody takes
a firm tooth comb and like just runs their thumb
across it with a cat. Have you ever seen this?

Speaker 5 (01:19:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
It makes cats like start an involuntary vomited reaction just
from hearing that sound. And that's how I am when
I hear somebody like starting to make the throw up
sounds like, yeah, this is it hurts. Yeah, thank you, Jacob.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
This is an audio show, and so that is not inappropriate.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
Are you are contributing the You're welcome, solid solid thinking. Yeah,
that's right. Yeah, she's actually got the night off so
allowed her not to be here today.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
She's yeah, she's here, Yeah, yeah, she's exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
It's also what it looks like when she's working. She
does tell health from the closet. But writer, you know,
I appreciate this question where you're asking about, like, hey,
insights advice on how to move forward, how to get
away from this avoidance, because yeah, I don't have any
friends in real life. You know, I really only go
to the gym. I am avoidant. I'm avoidant of going
to work, I'm avoiding to go in interviews. I'm avoidant
of spending time with other people. I need to pressure

(01:20:42):
myself to get out there. And you know, I'll tell
you that we treat this very similarly to how we
treat like a gooraphobia, you know, like which is a
really strong, you know, more accentuated version of what you're
you're experiencing where people are literally locked in their homes
and they cannot leave, they can't check their mail.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
The fear of being gored by a rhinoceros.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
Yes, exactly. Honestly, the people that aren't afraid are the
ones I worry. Yeah exactly. I mean, if you see
a rhino fucking run, you know because they are dangerous
that they'll get you. But you know, writer in these scenarios,
it really is. I think in my experience and when

(01:21:20):
i'd be curious what you think about this, I usually
find that it's going to be exposure therapy. It is
going to be the slow and methodical, challenge based therapy.
Or we're going to start by saying, hey, I want
you to get up on meetup dot com. I want
you to come back to me with five groups that
you found interesting. Maybe a D and D group, maybe
a board game group, maybe a walking group, a hiking group,

(01:21:42):
a running group, of climbing group, a political group, a
matinee group, whatever, And come back to me with groups
that you found that you you would just objectively think
that sounded interesting to me. I would be interested in
that because the more people that you find that are
like you, the more you're gonna just get wins. Right,
Like you think, oh, I'm off putting or I'm offbeat,

(01:22:02):
or people don't like me, and then we just tally
up what your interests are. We figure out you're into
like Lord of the Rings or some shit, and then
we get you to like D and D group and
then like you find your people and like you get
there and you're like, oh, well this is great. Like
I had a really nice experience and like I wasn't
off putting and it was nice, and it starts there.
So in my opinion, we're going to start with something
like very small exposure therapy with people that I've had,

(01:22:23):
especially young men and women. And again, writer, I'm guessing
at your age, you never told us. But like when
I've had people that are scared of jobs because they
feel like inadequate or like out of their depth, or
they're scared to be embarrassed because they're getting paid for it,
I usually start with volunteer work. And so the first
thing I like to get them to do is same
kind of thing. We set up a challenge where I
have them look up like five to ten opportunities in

(01:22:46):
their community that could be serving in different capacities at
an animal shelter or volunteering to move things for a
house company's just moving and like that's a great way
to get paid too and not have a lot to
do besides moving boxes with some earbuds in. But like,
I had a young guy years ago that was struggling

(01:23:06):
with this and like had tried out a job in college.
I hadn't gone well. He had quit pretty quickly, and
he was like, man, you know, I just I really
gun shy now, like I'm really scared and screwed up again.
And so you know, we said, great, let's get you
connected with this volunteer association that was attached to a church.
And basically it was like widows, like you know, people
that were older that were moving houses, they could call

(01:23:27):
the church and like young college guys would show up
with trucks and like move their stuff. Yeah, and just
for free, just the thing the church would do. And
these young guys would get some exercise, they did good
in the world, and they were happy about it was
all for free, and sometimes they get a tip or
something like that, but that was about it. And like
we got him doing that, and he just had a
couple of successful little missions there and he started getting
his like you know, confidence back up of like, hey,

(01:23:47):
that was nice, and I've kind of seen the same
guys that several different of these service opportunities, and like
the pastor was really proud of us, and like the
old lady that we helped was really nice and I
was I feel good and it was like great, Like
you're building life skills. It goes on your resume if
you want it to. But also you're getting some wins.
So like I look for those things writer like volunteer opportunities.
That's a great way to do it. Starting with like

(01:24:08):
low stakes mutual meetup groups that are around to shared
activity instead of something very direct. Those like small sort
of indirect options sometimes build up confidence and expose you
enough that you could start processing what that experience was like,
and maybe that starts building up to things that are
more formal, like an interview or you know, job work.

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
Yeah, yeah, I like that. The volunteering I really like too,
because it feels a little bit more on your terms, right,
you know, you're choose that versus going into an interview
where yeah, you're trying to sell yourself and they might
have like the power hand, right yeah, or it feels
like that and.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
You're not being evaluated to like, if I'm a shitty volunteer,
you still got a dude who showed up and helped you. Yeah, Like,
there's no reason to assign.

Speaker 3 (01:24:53):
Me that positive response, like you said, yeah, I can.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
Only do nice things for you. And if I was unhelpful,
I showed up and nobody else. So I moved to
the box half as far as you wanted it to go.
That was one hundred percent further than it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
Was waiting till me.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
Yeah, that's right, I gave you something.

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
So yeah, writer, I'm a big fan of just anything
that kind of like exposes you, in small bites to
a little bit more of that tolerance pressure of kind
of getting out of the house, giving yourself opportunities to
size up with other humans, and then giving you opportunities
also to contemplate, hopefully with a therapist or in a
journal working on your own. What are my takeaways from that?

(01:25:31):
What kind of ways did I sense this other human
was giving me value or sizing me up? And is
that accurate? Like, you know, I feel like that's a
big part of it too, Like I know, when I
was a young man, I was constantly going through like
these weird transitions of having a bad interaction with somebody
and then fundamentally questioning like, oh my god, like I

(01:25:53):
must be a piece of shit like that guy. I
remember once I literally volunteered to move things for a
church and like one of the dudes, like an older guy,
and he seemed really unimpressed with me, and like I
was trying to like show him like, hey, I'm with
you every step of the way, I'm caring what you carry,
and he had like made some kind of like offhanded
joke about like, oh, this boy can't keep up with us,
and I remember being like, but I tried really hard

(01:26:13):
today to like show you that wasn't the case. And
I thought it was maybe like an insecurity thing out
of him, that he was just picking on me to
like resonate with the other dudes there because I was
the odd man out. But I remember coming home and
just being like haunted, yeah, and just being like, wow,
I am a piece of shit, and like I just
I do not have what it takes, and like other
guys can see it. Oh my god, like even when

(01:26:34):
I try my best, like it wasn't enough. And like, writer,
if you go through that weird neurotic shit like I do,
which you resonated in a letter with your pps that
perhaps you do, boy, do you have some personal work
to do, because that is not about that asshole. It's
about you and the way that you give other people
meaning in your head. And you've got to go through
that personal disassembling work, which only happens when you put

(01:26:55):
yourself out there you start having some exposures. Yes, yes, yes, yes, anyway, writer,
we're gonna wrap it up there. Thank you for listening
to the show. Thank you for your ongoing support, thank
you for being a cumpwallet battleship destroyer two part due
the electric Boogloo. We're in take quick break in when
we come back, we are wrapping up the show. You're
listening to pod Therapy.

Speaker 4 (01:27:16):
Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Schneider, Malia Richard, Bacy,
Sonny boy At Thunder, Cooper Palkino, Snipper, k Motherficker, Sandra mcaffle, Elena,
and Gabrielam. If you want to be a sponsor on
this show, head on over to therap, head on over
to dot com stuff to coome a therapy producer.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
Who knows all right therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
Go there.

Speaker 2 (01:27:43):
Now, last question for each of you, this is worth
one million points, right, this is it? Okay, as it
should be. This is the deal. We're starting with Whitney. Whitney.
What is the name of Tony's uncle who was often
called you in here?

Speaker 3 (01:28:02):
Okay, options, I'm gonna give.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
You a hint. His last name is soprano.

Speaker 3 (01:28:05):
Thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
All right?

Speaker 3 (01:28:07):
Now, what are the options?

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
The options are Anthony DeMeo Corrado soprano, Phil Leatardo Carmine soprano.
Anthony DeMeo Corrado soprano, Phil Leotardo Carmine soprano.

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
Car is someone in there, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
It's very Italian. They're all very except for Phil. Phil
not very Italian in here. Anthony, Philippe, Carmine.

Speaker 3 (01:28:45):
I'm gonna go with that one.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
You're going Carmine soprano with the steel Jacob for a
million points. It's the second one, Corrado.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
That one wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
It's Phil. It is definitely a soprano. In fact, the
last one was on my list as Carmine Lupertazzi. But
I knew if I gave you that last name, it
wouldn't even be a guess. You would just pick the
only one that ended the soprano. I didn't like how
it was phrased, so I denied you that opportunity for
the win of Jacob. Where does winning for another win? Yes,

(01:29:22):
she could get the rebound and tie you for infinity.
Where does Furio, a person Whitney's never heard of by
episode two, eventually move after fleeing the US due to
his feelings for Carmela.

Speaker 1 (01:29:39):
Oh I don't. I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:29:41):
Want options?

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Sure? Yes, Naples, Italy, Rome back to Italy.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
That was an option? Back to Italy. Oh I believe
he does go back to Italy and Palermo.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
I'm going back to It was a specific.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
All Italians are just from Italy, end.

Speaker 3 (01:30:06):
Of unless you're Sicilian. I learned this recently. Sicilians like
to be Sicilian.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
Okay, well, that's also where that pizza place is from.
Little Caesars.

Speaker 4 (01:30:17):
It's sorry to argue with that proud tradition because he's
an idiot, really hard dark.

Speaker 2 (01:30:24):
When's the last time you had Little Caesars?

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
Oh I, I've vomited maniacally.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
No, stop it, stop it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:34):
That ruins it for me.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
If you'd like to know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
you that you can sign up Patreon dot com slash therapy.
You can get our extend This is.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
Not the outro.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
I'm just reading over the outro music.

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
You get the.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
Extended show at free Day earlier, as well as enjoy
our live chat, Discord community and our weekly cheap types
in our musicals. There's research around its and rants. Uh
Nick will be back next week with some to people
that have joined the show patron dot com slash Therapy.
I do not have the updated list, but we do
want to think the benevolent, revered, generous and flagrantly pro

(01:31:08):
therapy diehards who love you all so much they give
to Hurtz, Dirty B and Pickett. I want to think
our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati, members of our fans, clubs,
their producers. Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie, Junior, Mint,
Smitty Scoop, Richard Fucking Mazy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Leon cassad Carolyn, Albert,
Kevin Chamberlin, Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Sammy Scoopsler, Pikaye, Motherfucker,

(01:31:31):
Ben Stanley's Lost Your Face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer Team,
Mike allam Oscar Swanros parris A Sunny Boy, Darren Cunningham,
Lib Sandra Mcwoffle Team Monica, Thunder Kruger, Falcon Scoop, Heyo, Hannah, Marie,
Andrew Langmead, Emma and Ponka and Tony Soprano, Elena Cody,
Laurian Guy, Brady Malay, Chick Chick, Filatio Kabriela Dame and

(01:31:55):
Sean Sutherland. If you'd like to hear this episode uncut
and unedited, why and enjoy our spontaneous side projects, go
to patreon dot com slash therapy and thank you all
for supporting mental health. Well that's all the time we
got for this week's session. I want to think our
Landlord's Matt Maddingly's ice Cream Social podcast And thanks to
those of you who contributed to our show today, we
really appreciate it. Remember pot Therapies, it's something to keep

(01:32:17):
all to yourself. Ship in the episode with the world
teg Us on the socials. When you do is that
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Do you want to submit a question to the show,
Ask anonymously at www dot pod therapy dot net, email
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click the link of the episode description and be taken

(01:32:39):
to our anonymous googles or I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
Nick Tansman, I'm with you, Joe, I'm also Jim.

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
Thanks, and we'll see your favorite point next week. Today
we learned that that is a longer song than people realized.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
Oh those so like forty seconds left.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
It goes, yeah, it place. That doesn't change that song, Fox, Yeah,
keep it forever.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
That's sound Fox.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
Goodbye, everybody, Bye.

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