#389: Self Love Motivation, Stuck in a Rut, Sharing Custody

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
They're exactly like real.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yes, yes, happy Gilmore, name your price, name your bets
and dollars for a blowdrup. Oh well sorry on four
and a half.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
And a half from Fabulous Lost face a man. This
is pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
You can submit your questions anonymously at podtherapy dot net
or email us at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com.
And now broadcasting from the Churn for a lot four weeks.
That's Jim, that's Whitney, I'm Nick. It's time for some
pod therapy.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yay. So, main show audience, we will not be here
much longer at the Fabulous Churn in Las Vegas. So
change is in the air and we are still sorting
out the deats on that. But it may even result
in us having some cool live shows, potentially broadcast on Twitter.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Or YouTube, maybe from top Golf.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Maybe from Top Golf, and potentially just some video shows.

Speaker 4 (00:54):
I want to I want to do that. Maybe I
want to do that tonight.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
I got to Top Golf.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I want to do this. Let's just put an end
to this right now.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
His athletic crocs.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
On, you know when to mess with these bad boys
my Father's Day crocs. Pretty pumped about that.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
You wore them on Father's Day? You received them?

Speaker 3 (01:14):
I received them as a gift. Yes, the somebody hates you.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
I love my crocs. Somebody hates you and gave you crocs.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
They need to put it. They thank you. Keep it
in your pants with I can't help it.

Speaker 5 (01:28):
The outline c r O s us.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
These are the real ones.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
Oh, I didn't know what outline on Jim you get yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:35):
Something else crocs? Yeah, so similar.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
To so somebody has to be like knock off crocs
one hundred let me finished the said go on, they're
called cocks, right, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Penis shape. I made sure, okay, but like somebody has
to have made that right. You're probably right. I feel
like that that exists already. But yes, I like my
new uh my new crocks. I gotta put my giblets
in my got all my little giblets from the frog store.
So pretty pumped about that. You can listen in on
some of the last Yes, yes, I like that. Oh

(02:12):
I I am making progress on my forty by forty
for those who are interested. I've also been watching Archer,
you know, just moving right along okay.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
It goes from I want to play around a golf
to counting top golf. I want to watch a celebrated archer.
Is this celebrated show our celebrated show? Jacob said, he'll
give it to me. Jacob's also in a very generous mood,
with a lot of want to.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
Get done with this fucking bit, done with this bit
that I know isn't going to get done.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
This is probably true.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
I feel like Jim started, so he's got to finish,
and I refuse to let him not.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Just yeah, should be at my grave and then the
last thing shall throw the calendar over.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
My grave and my nine ne fucking I feel like
Jim has done everything on that list that he is
going to do.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yes, like it has already happened, already passed Patreon dot com,
slash therapy. We had some guests join us here in
the churn, completely by surprise. Pretty fun to say hello
friends and enjoy some snacker.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
He told me they were coming. I just forgot you guys.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Then for a while, it has been a very eventful
date show announcements. Our buddy David Sorensen got married, author
of many a jingle, including uh I think Jim's Tales
of Woe and Jim learned a thing?

Speaker 5 (03:31):
Can you make a jingle for the show?

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
No, never replaced that banj.

Speaker 5 (03:36):
But you know you've done so much already.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Another announcement, Manu and Jim updated Jim's Neurotic Bingo dot com.
So if you'd like to listen to the show and
play a game as you listen and mark off your
own Bingo card, check it out. It's also in your
episode description. It's always been linked right now, so with
a whole bunch of more current references since the last

(04:00):
time it had been updated was like five years ago.
So exciting things happening in the world.

Speaker 4 (04:06):
I'm just trying to decide if it's fair for Nick
to even play Jims. Yeah, I know, I feel like
he's going to trigger things.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, absolutely, all me phrases like there's you're in there too,
Like there's lots of things. I think we even have
some Whitney ones.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
Let me go see yep, check it out, go too.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I feel like I can click midlife crisis. Yeah, we
did talk about Spirit Airlines.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, that's and that was Whitney. I didn't even bring
it back.

Speaker 5 (04:28):
He said a weird word. What was it?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I don't say weird words, which that's how you say it. Anyway,
We've got some great questions for today's show, and we're
leading off the order with staying Motivated to Love Myself. Hi,
Pod Therapy. I was an anonymous writer in twenty twenty three,
episode two ninety three, and you answered my question about
my wife losing physical attraction to me. Very short summary.

(04:53):
I gained a lot of weight and my wife shared
some hurtful realities about her feelings towards me. Despite your
words and insightightful advice, I spiraled for a couple of
months before I went back and listened again. Nothing about
the advice changed, but I picked up one new thing.
One of you said offhandedly, I'm glad to hear your
inn therapy. The problem was I wasn't in there.

Speaker 5 (05:16):
Oh, I'm going to go back and listen to that.
I gotta hear tho.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
God, simple statement pushed me to consider that I probably
should be.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
Winning.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
So starting in.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
January, I'm gonna take credit.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, I think it was call it Jacob. Give him
a point for that one. So, starting in January twenty
twenty four, I found a therapist and went for the
first time. It took me a long time to work
through everything I had going on, but I eventually accepted
that I was depressed and probably had been for a
long time. We worked through a lot of feelings and
post traumatic events. Finally we worked on accepting that I

(05:51):
was enough just the way I am. This last one
is where I wanted to ask a follow up question
to all of you. The past three or four months,
I started exercising and eating healthier. I've lost thirty pounds. Wow,
I'm nowhere close to my goal weight, and like Nick
always warns when he's talking about weight loss, it's slow.
I really don't look that different, even though I do

(06:13):
feel good. I'm doing it for me. But it turns
out that taking care of your mental health and making
an effort are attractive to your partner. So for those
that care. I'm still together with my wife of almost
twenty years. She's supportive of me, and things are much
better since I get a hold. I got a hold
of my own feelings and I'm better able to share those.

(06:36):
So here's my problem. If I'm enough, why am I
working so hard to change? Yeah? My therapist says that
loving yourself is taking care of yourself. Something in my head, though,
can't get past the fact that things are better because
I'm changing, but that means I'm not enough right. Every
day I have to get up and tell myself positive

(06:56):
things to keep the depression at bay, but then also
find motivation to continue working on myself. I guess I
lived so long thinking that only negative feelings like fear
and shame could motivate change that I'm having trouble making
the mental leap to the positive. Any advice to push
past this conflict in my head. Really can't thank you

(07:18):
all enough. You've made a huge difference in my life.
Listening again to that episode, you all told me everything
that I would eventually hear from my therapist. I just
couldn't accept it at the time. If I had, I
could have saved a lot of money. A Patreon subscription
is nothing compared to a year plus of therapy. You've
got a subscriber for as long as you keep doing

(07:40):
the podcast. Thank you Anonymous.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Can we have a Patreon level for claiming that we
are your therapists?

Speaker 5 (07:47):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (07:47):
Yeah, this level you could just say yes, these are
my therapist. Yeah yeah, this is like whenever you agree
to tell.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Let somebody tell somebody that you're their boyfriend. It's like, hey,
I'll give you twenty bucks, shut up, walk with me.
Which we do have a Patreon. Yeah, there's a number
for that. Absolutely never been a buyer, but it's there.
It's always been there.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
You can always say I'm a boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
That's right, it's fine, your boyfriend. There's a number, and
boyfriend for the night, there's a number. Okay, but I
think absolutely there should be a number where you get
to tell just.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Kicked off a couple of gems neurotic Bago squares.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Oh good, Oh good, that's that's lovely.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
What were they? What is the Patreon level at which?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Okay, I thought of everything. I like this, but yes,
I love your idea for that Patreon point. That is
a really good idea. But no, this is a really
good question. I like this one a lot where the
writer's kind of talking about the catch twenty two of Okay.
I went through a spell where I was depressed, I
hated myself. I was going through a lot of body

(08:55):
image stuff. I made a huge change in my life
mentally by accepting myself for who I am and being
positive towards myself, but I am currently trying to change myself.
How do I balance those two things simultaneously? I'm good
enough and I want to change. So are those two

(09:16):
ideas in conflict? Okay? Basically is the question I think. Yeah,
I think they're They're saying that's the deal.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
With Am I enough? But I'm working on myself? Are
these two contradictory?

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I don't think they are.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Okay, I'm trying.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
I'm having trouble being able to verbalize it.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Because you're drunk, Tanjamon.

Speaker 5 (09:34):
Yeah, I have a good analogy, and I feel very
proud because Nick I feel like is the analogy guy,
and I'm always trying to remember them and I never can.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
It's not only analogy he can do.

Speaker 5 (09:46):
You know, it's not golf. Can you be enough in
golf and still be working on yourself?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh? You just ended the show, Whitney. I can't handle
that question a lot.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Okay, let's listen, let's okay, let's deal with the writer.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Come back to that. Jesus. It just pulls out his
journal and just starts.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Furiously to think about this. In our next studio, can
we have a couch that we lay down?

Speaker 4 (10:12):
Oh, that's like, oh, yeah, I think we need a couch.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Everybody's at least the love seats.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, that's ye. I'll kick my feet up on a
love seat.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
That everyone of those like zero G reclining chairs.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, that'd be fine.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
May be a blow up couch like in the nineties.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Oh my god, I.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
Slept on one of those ones. Mattress that.

Speaker 5 (10:35):
Okay? No, my I thought of an analogy for this.
I was very proud of myself. I want to hear
your thoughts and you can just shoot me down. It's fine,
I know you do, so it's all right, all right.
So my thoughts were, what is another situation where it's
something is enough, but like you should still keep working
on it.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
Oh, it's so stupid.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, Jesus Christ is like, NA, who would do that?

Speaker 5 (11:04):
I feel like I need to change your name.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
To your cat? Can we put that on the patreot?

Speaker 5 (11:10):
No, our next animal. I'm totally letting y'all name because
I was really impressed with all the outrageous names given
for uh, for Emma's horse. No, I feel like I
need an Instagram for cat lease, you know, all right?
Side notes, So my analogy is my analogy is a
car all right, you have a car. It needs oil.

(11:33):
Your car is leaking oil, it's low on oil. If
your car is low on oil, it still drives, all right,
still get you from point A to point B. But
you're like you're risking it. You know, maybe it's like
not good for your engine. I don't really know cars
that welso I don't know the consequences of having But
like if it's full, like you you top up the oil,
then it's running like a dream, like there could be

(11:56):
but it's got enough to get you round, but like
it needs more oil.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
It's just gets you around because it's so oily. It's
just sliding right across the road.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
No, this is a This is a perfect analogy.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
It is I love it, absolutely needed.

Speaker 5 (12:12):
The analogy was the show out of the video because
they're just Jacob and I are.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
Just the video. Here say oil one more.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
But this is you gotta get that oil over windshield fast.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Great analogy though, because like, yeah, something can be enough,
but you have to maintain it for it to continue.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
To That's a really good point, Nick. My analogy like
that shut up when yours was terrible. Nick, I like that.
I don't like a car.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
I did just say what she said? No, no, it
did sounds.

Speaker 5 (12:54):
Okay. I need to know here because this is this.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Is why we have a woman on the show.

Speaker 7 (12:59):
She can over with the exact we can love it
exactly where it is.

Speaker 5 (13:04):
It's a running joke now where Peter will say something
that I've like told set out louder whispered him, and
then he said, there was like, oh, Peter, I just
said that there's.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
No witnesses anyway, at least he cannot tell.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Could I try an analogy as well?

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Oh yeah, go ahead, I would like to try, and
I'd love to hear what your thoughts matter.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
Shelter, Oh, if you have, you need shelter to live, Okay,
So if you have, you know, a small little studio
apartment or a little rundown spot. But it's safe, it's warm,
it's cool, whatever you need in the in the weather
where you are, you've got shelter, yes, you you have,
you have achieved liveability, you can you can shelter. Yes, yeah,

(13:49):
but you might want it to be a little more comfortable.
So you put in trash, you put in crap.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Maybe I got some.

Speaker 7 (13:57):
Analogy, okay, Ice skates Okay, yeah, they're enough, right, Yeah,
but you gotta keep sharpeningough, you gotta sharp Let's keep
that coming up with other analogies that are exactly the
same thing, but just another.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, better, it's better analogies.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
So like if you're in the water and you're just walking,
you know on the on the bottom down there, you
can just push yourself along, you know, you could move
along more efficiently, you could by swimming or some oil.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
You could off the oil and then you just because
the oil don'll mix with the waters across the water coast.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
I agree, I thought it was wonderful.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
I give you full par so I actually do have
a real not analogy, but a comment on this. I
think the analogies have all been used up, so I'll
doubt it. But no writer like this idea that you Okay, yes,
I think you are sufficient, but we have to use
like the right concept here. You are a human. Humans grow,
Humans change over time. Humans are not static beings, right,
So like if you had a child, you look at

(15:05):
your child and think, my gosh, like this child is enough.
Like I accept this child who they are. I love
them exactly as they are. But part of who they
are is their potential and their their growth, right, part
of their normal analogy I mean, okay, so you cover
the kid and oil ya is such a good one. Yeah,
part of their normal growth is them are they're they're like.

(15:27):
Part of your acceptance of them is your acceptance of
the responsibility to develop them. So I think you look
at yourself in the same way. There's a sense that
I am sufficient, I am enough, but also I have
sufficient resources within me to continue my journey. And I
think that's really the piece that we're trying to work on.
It's not so much it's it's about getting you to

(15:48):
not look at your deficiencies and inadequacies because you're historically
getting those wrong sized in your mind. You tend to
focus on those so much. The obscure the accuracy with
which you self assess that that is something that happens
in CBT. We call that a cognitive distortion. Has a
lot of different names to it. Some people call it,

(16:08):
I think the ink blot, or like a what's that
there's it's the ink something. How one drop of ink
discolors the entire beaker of water? I don't remember what
that fuck? I forgot my kid done with analogy? Yeah, sorry, sorry,
CBT either I doubt that we were done. Yeah, anyway,

(16:33):
call it disqualifying the positive, that that's a mental filter,
that was the and so yeah, both of those are
what you right, So you don't want to have an octopus.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
They're going to it up.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
You will basically have a personality octopus that you've been
obsessing over. No, But like writer, that's the problem here
is that historically what you've been doing is cognitively distorting
your own value by focusing only on the negatives and
disqualifying the positives. So it is good emotional mental health
yoga for you to constantly restretch that new muscle of

(17:08):
forcing yourself to see the positives. That's not necessarily to
end the conversation about growth. It's not designed to adjudicate
your value. It's designed because you always tend to go
the other way and notice the negative. So forcing yourself
to dwell upon the positives and be mindful is you
learning how to re calibrate your sense of proportion. That

(17:32):
doesn't mean that you become completely ignorant of anything in
your life that needs to be adjusted, right. I mean
we've worked in rehabs, and in rehabs we're working simultaneously on,
you need to love yourself and stop fucking doing drugs,
right and so, and both things are actually very connected.
Part of how you're gonna love yourself is stop doing drugs.
So I think that that's part of this story for

(17:52):
me too, writer, is yeah, breaking through this idea of
like insufficiency by focusing on what's excellent about you and
what's good while also continuing to do the work of growth,
because that's what you are designed to do.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Now. I do want to make another important point here,
which is that you were talking about. Yeah, I'm I'm
told I need to love myself, and I've made good
progress with that, but I'm also here trying to change
you know, I'm going to the gym, I'm doing all
these things, I'm eating healthy, all of that. I do
want to point out here that by doing those things,

(18:25):
you aren't changing who you are, Okay. So, like if
anybody begins this exercise or weight loss journey where you're exercising,
you're changing the way you eat. You're changing your body
and how it looks or or how it functions, which
I think is even more important than how it looks,
is how it's functioning. You're not changing who you are
who you are. You're not changing your identity. So it

(18:47):
isn't that you're saying like, well I'm not enough or
I will be enough, because none of that changes. It's
really just about maintenance and the way that I was.
And again, like I'm going back to Whitney's analogy because
I use similar when we talk about Penn's oil when
we talk about exercise, and I've even brought it up
here on the show many times. You know, the philosophy

(19:09):
they to look at when it comes to exercise and
eating healthy is it's like maintaining a race car. You know,
Like if you've got a race car.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Put oil in it.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well not only oil, but like the right kind of oil, right,
if you're putting gasoline, the right kind of gasoline.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
You know.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
I just I recently on the way back so much mouse.
I know, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Realize oil for some cars finally fulfilled the destiny of
becoming a car talk.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
It's so proud of us.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
I on the way back from Iowa, I watched on
the plane Ford versus Ferrari. Have you seen that?

Speaker 5 (19:40):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah, that is an amazing I've seen the trailer, Yeah, amaze,
the movie, the trailer.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
Oh that's good, it's not they carry it so good,
so good.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
But anyway, like you know, they're they're they're racing the
twenty four hours of Lama, right, and that car's got
it's got to last twenty four hours, right, but you
have to push it to its absolute limit like a
perfect race car. But oil, a perfect race car is

(20:11):
the car that blows up as soon as it passes
the finish line, right, you know, because it means it's
got nothing left. You used everything, but it made it
to the finish line and then it's done.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
Right.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
And so like if you your body, your human body,
you know, we we we need to get it to
perform and operate at its most efficient, and that does
mean that we have to put the right fuel in it.
That means we do have to exercise it. We have
to kind of push it to its limit on a
regular basis in order to get the most out of it.
So none of that changes your identity, none of it
changes who you are.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
It's really just enhancement exactly. Yeah. No, I really like
all these analogies and one other thing writer that you
said that I really appreciate. I mean, a we're super
glad to hear that you're plugging therapy and saying, hey,
I went, and that actually changed the game for me.
I think that's huge. Another thing that the writers that
I just think it's important to shine a light on,
even though it's not kind of the main point of
this question. The writer references the old question which said,

(21:07):
you know, hey, my my spouse came to me and
said they're no longer attracted to me. And I remember
that question, remember that one. Yeah, it was not mean spirited.
It was like, this sad thing has happened to me.

Speaker 5 (21:16):
And it's a info.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
But I appreciate where the writer kind of said, Look,
I started going to therapy. I started working on my
mind first, and it turns out that just putting in
effort on myself and changing my thinking and and it
turns out I was depressed. I became more attractive.

Speaker 5 (21:35):
That was so fucking valid.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Is really sexy.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
It's really sexy, And it reminded me of a stat
and I just double checked it to make sure I
got it right. There was a survey done on dating apps.
Ninety two percent of respondents said if they find out
the person goes to therapy, it is more attractive. It
is a green flag to hear that. And I just
I love this question too because.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
I know what to lie about on my right.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
It's right. Well, for a fee, you can say, where
your therapist, we'll vouch for you on the dating apps. Okay,
you can say, oh, my therapist said I'm good with
dating like.

Speaker 4 (22:06):
Ten bucks a month. I feel like you're at ten
dollars a month.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yea.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
Then you can say per host, per host.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, because if you want all four of us group therapy, you.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Know it's reverse fifty will write a letter of recommendation.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Oh easy, Yeah, I have so much nick tangement.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
Letters of our choice.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yes, gets a big gets a big one. It's more,
I think this person will be an excellent dog ket Yeah,
I wholeheartedly. Yeah. So I just I really appreciate that writer,
because like in your story, it could have been I mean,
you said like, hey, I've lost thirty pounds, really proud
of that. But you said like, look I physically don't

(22:43):
really look much different, you know, And I respect that,
but I appreciate that you said I am different. Though
I am behaving different, I am thinking different since I've
started attending my mental health and that is showing up
in my marriage, and I really think that's cool to hear.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Can I add one more thing, because writer, I want
to give you credit because you are already doing the
thing that I try to get all of my personal
training clients to do. You're already doing it, which is
that you have to look for the changes that are occurring.
Because changes occur very, very slowly. It is a slow

(23:19):
as you mentioned in the letter, it is a slow
process to get out of this. And a lot of times,
if you are working and working, working, and you're not
seeing results.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
You quit.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
So everybody does that.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
But the thing is is results are occurring, but they're
just not obvious, you know, like you said, you lost
thirty pounds, then you don't really see it, but you
feel it. You do, and that's important, and so you
need to remind yourself of that. You know, you need
to remind yourself too, like, oh, you know, I'm noticing
these positive changes in my relationship. I'm noticing that I'm

(23:55):
feeling a little bit better, even small things like you know,
when I go up the stairs at work, I don't
get when right, you know, like, really search out all
of those small things, because that's what's what we're trying
to do. We're trying to develop and harvest this internal motivation.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
I love that point one thing I did. So after
i'd lost the i'd gotten I'd lost sixty total, and
then I kind of regressed and I got down to fifty.
So I've kept fifty off, but like at some point
I was feeling like discouraged, and I was like, man,
you know, yes the clothes are different, yes there's a change,
but like, you know, I'm unsatisfied. I haven't gotten where
I want to get to yet. My goal is still
to get to one seventy five and get to my BMI.

(24:31):
So I still have about twenty pounds to drop, and
somebody's that could be really discouraging because that fifty pounds,
as hard as it was, this next twenty is very difficult.
Like it's just a very different situation. But one day
I was at the gym, which I sometimes go to
but not often, right and while I was there, I thought,
I'm going to go pick up a fifty pound weight

(24:51):
and just walk around the gym with it for a
second to remember what it was like and just see
if what what will that be like? That was very
important for me to do and just walking around and
being like Jesus fucking Christ, Yeah, this came off of
my body.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, walk up some stairs with it, Jesus.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah. And so like that's thirty pounds. Like you might
visually be like I don't really see it, like or
I'm still I have a lot of work to do.
I'm unsatisfied. But I like what you said, Nick, which
is like you've got to force yourself to find clever
ways to see the progress. And for me, that was
a clever way for me to hold that progress in
my hand. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
If you think about it, like even if you dropped
that weight fifty pounds in one day, you'd.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Be addicted, Like on the moon, you would literally be.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Addicted to exercise, right, that feeling that you would have,
feeling it all at once.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, it would be one of the greatest highs ever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Right, But because it happens so slowly. This is why
I always say, like, you know, there could theoretically, for
all I know, there could be a drug out there
that gets you high two months after you take it, right,
But no one's ever going to abuse it, right, right, No,
we would never know because no one it's all about immediacy,
like the quicker you get the effect, the more addictive

(26:05):
it is.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well and to extend your point too, This is also
why working on yourself in any capacity, physical or mental
is hard, or why so many people struggle with depression
and it's hard for them to take that medicine every
day and we tell them it's gonna take two to
three weeks before the depression starts to wane, and they're like,
the fuck is this? You know, trying to take a
pill every day for two or three weeks and then

(26:27):
wait and see if that was the right dose, and
keep working on this, go to therapy every week and
talk about my life and still like sometimes people will say,
I feel like I show up in therapy every week
and I continue to tell you I'm depressed and you say, great,
I'll see you again next week, and they're like, fuck this,
you know, but it is this slow trickling process where like,
this erosion is happening and then eventually things change. But

(26:50):
you're right, it doesn't happen all at once, which is
why stories like this about persistence and revisiting something sometimes
and this goes back to addictions work stages of change
sometimes you're presented with a reality you're not ready. You're
just not ready for the change yet. And then, as
the writer did, eventually you come back and you revisit
the exact same thing that you were once presented with.

(27:12):
Nothing has changed except you and your readiness to now
follow that advice. And that's why sometimes people say I've
already tried therapy, nothing got better, I'll never go back,
And that's exactly wrong, Like, no, go back Earlier you
wasn't ready, Now you go back.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
I have there's somebody in my life distantly related that
I've kind of had this conversation with. I haven't had
this conversation, but I've had the thought I've not worked.
But I will say that I have no no, but
like this individual had had gone to therapy, tried it once,

(27:48):
and this person needs to be in therapy and went
one time, did not have a good experience, and then
has not gone back. It was like, well I tried
that and I'm never gonna do it again. Yeah, And
I just I kind of want to, like say, you
ever got a haircut and did they ever.

Speaker 5 (28:03):
Up?

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah? Was that the last haircut you ever got?

Speaker 5 (28:06):
Well, you didn't go back to the same haircut person.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yeah, exactly, So try a different haircut, another haircut. Yeah,
you're not gonna it's not a one and done thing.

Speaker 5 (28:15):
Wow, good analogy.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
You ever up your car? Thanks Whitney by putting a
whole court of oil in the gas tank. All right,
just the last time quart of oil over the wreath.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
Wow, I'm proud of my one analogy.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
This is what support looks like. Okay, you're just not
used to it because you're toxic, because you're not used
to masculine effect. You don't what it looks like.

Speaker 5 (28:43):
Push you off the no hitter boys, you're.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Doing real good.

Speaker 5 (28:48):
You're accepted.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
He's calm down when you're doing great.

Speaker 5 (28:52):
Thanks guys. So one of the things I wanted to
mention was sometimes, like, uh, motivation looks different for every person.
Some clients I work with, like I think of one
in particular, they would tell me if some thing's on
my calendar, I'll do it. It's almost like a I
think that's very few people. I don't think that's majority.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
They put a bunch of it on my calendar and
I haven't done any of it, so exactly that's me.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
Yeah, So yeah, that's very calendar based Okay, my life
revolves so interesting.

Speaker 5 (29:21):
I don't think very many people ahay, but this one,
this one person, they were like, oh, I don't really
want to do this or that, or it's hard for me,
Like especially in a very depressed state, you know, when
you aren't motivated to do anything, like how do you
do the things you know they're helpful or you quote
should do. And in my mind for this one person,
they were like, you know what, I need to work

(29:42):
on this hobby that I really enjoy. I don't want to,
but you know what if I tell myself every Thursday
at six thirty to seven am, it's on there, I
do it. And I was like, oh, so I.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
Always I wanted to come in today. I wanted to
come to the turn today and get some stuff and
move some stuff out and pack up stuff that we're
not using it anymore. And I didn't feel like it, Yeah,
because I was out last night. I went to a
concert last night and we were out and yeah, all
that stuff, and so I woke up of how I
feel like going in And then like an hour later,
had some lunch and looked at my father. I was like,

(30:16):
what don't I have on my calendar? Today, m oh,
go pack up the churn.

Speaker 5 (30:23):
And yes, very calendar based. And so I say that
to say, like, sometimes when we take out quote motivation
or that internal motivation, what kind of keeps somebody going
to the gym or sticking with some new habit or
skill they're trying to improve upon. And especially when we're
in a state of depression, we have zero desire, damn

(30:45):
near zero desire to do something. So some people might
be something as simple as adding it to your calendar
and holding yourself to that. Sometimes for me, it's like
changing that mindset of that mental narrative from I'm a
lazy piece of ship too. You know, I'm a person
that goes to the gym. I go to the gym
four days a week. Is just one of those days,

(31:07):
And now all of a sudden, there's like a little
brain shift that happens there. It's small in the beginning,
but it's like, oh, I'm a person that goes to
the gym four days a week, and now I'm doing
it like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
I used to do the same thing working with people
with smoking cessation. Yep, remember this, I'm a non smoker.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
I'm a non smoker.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, you just kind of continue, I'm a non smoker.
I don't smoke. I'm a non smoker, and you just
kind of you make it part of your identity as
opposed to a choice. If you if you leave it
as a choice, you're gonna choose no right, or you're
gonna choose whatever.

Speaker 5 (31:38):
Is, whatever's easiest to happen, at least.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
It till you make it on the Bingo card.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Oh, it's not on mine. I've got five boxes checked already.

Speaker 5 (31:48):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Oh jesus, I've had five.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
It's a competitive game, it's very excited.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
It's gym's neurotic bingo dot com dot.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Com go for that. Yeah, but uh no, Winny, I
love that point, and like I like your your general
analysis there of Like, no, sometimes you do have to
fake it. Sometimes you have to like place that thought
over yourself or create some kind of like routine and
then just follow the orders, especially when you're in depression,
as you were saying, because like with depression, you cannot

(32:17):
trust your own brain, so you just have to do
what you're told.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
So these thoughts, like do you feel like they just
kind of pop in like they're kind of what's the
word for that?

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, popcorn. Yeah, yeah, oh like Sherry, Oh what was that?

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Jacob thoughts, I don't ye.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Fathers years ago, I probably should. I think Jacob and
Nick finally broke I doubt that. I think you bested
me when you finally bought that fatherly advice book and
gave it to me for Christmas. I still have it,
and I I just it's funny because every time I

(33:03):
look at it, I'm just angry. But I won't throw
it away because it was a gift.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
It's the long burn he keeps working.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
Man.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Every time I say it, I'm like, God, fucking damnit,
I'm so mad about that. Anyway, writer, great question. We're
really glad to hear the things are moving in a
better direction for you. Stay positive, you are good enough,
and continue to grow and keep putting oil in your car.
We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back,
we are talking about struggling with being in a rut.
He's got the bingo up on the screen. Now you're

(33:33):
listening to pop Therapy.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Carolyn Albert,
sammy'sof Sarah Smith, Like Holm, Darren Cunningham, Cody the Delorian guy,
Brady Malay check or and Max the Ginger Scoop. You
can't have that up there.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
He's got and angry Nick up there, and then he's
just gonna get shut the fuck up the way.

Speaker 5 (34:04):
I need one more and I'm gonna shoot shot shot here,
all right, here we go.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Are you smarter than a fifth grader? O?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Ship?

Speaker 5 (34:12):
I hate that show?

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Whitney will start with you.

Speaker 5 (34:16):
I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
What's the name of a group of crows?

Speaker 5 (34:20):
A murder?

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Nice counting?

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, I'll give you two points two crows?

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Murder?

Speaker 4 (34:28):
Did murder?

Speaker 7 (34:31):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (34:31):
Jim?

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
What is the only US state that grows coffee commercially
for you?

Speaker 4 (34:39):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (34:39):
That's on this One's easy.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Columbia what sorry, the district of.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Columbia.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
That's amazing. That's where it's from.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
There's a guy with a donkey and it comes from
the from the district of Columbia coffee?

Speaker 5 (34:57):
No is that?

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Because?

Speaker 4 (35:04):
Also not a state?

Speaker 1 (35:05):
Okay, that's gotta be on my bingo cards, right, I don't.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
Like this game, that's okay? I got one about the
trivia Jacob?

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Oh one, Jacob sings on mine?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
So can I get options?

Speaker 4 (35:24):
No?

Speaker 8 (35:25):
Wrong?

Speaker 4 (35:26):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Come on. Actually, right, Jacob, it goes to me right, yes, Hawaii? Yes,
Oh my god, of course it's the only state that
Why is that obvious? Don't I like that's obvious?

Speaker 4 (35:38):
Famous?

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Coffee is very famous.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Okay, my god, they grow pineapples and coffee.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Okay, Jacob, Yes, what is the Roman numeral for fifty?

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Let's see? Are there other Roman U questions? Should I
not do this out loud?

Speaker 1 (35:57):
I don't think the Roman numerals from here on out?

Speaker 4 (36:03):
I as one vs five xes ten L is fifty?

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Correct? If he would have said five xes, could that count? No,
that's not given.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
That's not the renumeral for fifty.

Speaker 5 (36:17):
I thought the football, like the super Bowl, was l
I V.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Wasn't that that was fifty nine?

Speaker 4 (36:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (36:23):
Fifty four L four four Yeah, so its l i
X so she's l. I would have gone it wrong,
but I was close, which doesn't count.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
You were wrong in the right way, exactly, all right, Whitney,
And uh, okay, how many sides does annagon have?

Speaker 2 (36:43):
The fuck? It's zero. It's a nonagon at least.

Speaker 5 (36:52):
Non agone N O N A G O N.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Donna get options?

Speaker 5 (37:03):
I can get options, yes, okay, options?

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Okay, eight, nine, ten or eleven? Ship zero's not on there.

Speaker 5 (37:10):
Sorry, I was going to guess nine for fun.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
It feels right, so it's got it one point?

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, all right, Jim in geography?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Fuck?

Speaker 1 (37:24):
What is an is already?

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Jim?

Speaker 3 (37:28):
He gets mad about trivia square.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
I've already done that one.

Speaker 5 (37:30):
Okay, Yeah, that's earned.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Holiday with a loose tooth. I guess.

Speaker 5 (37:37):
Fucking well, if Jacob makes it through the show, I'll
have Jacob.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Give me options.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Okay. Is it a narrow strip of land connecting two
large land areas? The peninsula a flat? No, it's not
like it is not a flat elevated area, a sharp
mountain range, or a dry riverbed.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Jesus Christ God damn this. So the first one is
not a peninsula?

Speaker 4 (38:12):
No?

Speaker 1 (38:12):
What is a peninsula?

Speaker 2 (38:13):
I thought it was that one. I thought it was
a bridge.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
A narrow strip of land connecting two large land areas.
Huh Is Florida a narrow strip connecting two large land areas?

Speaker 5 (38:25):
Answer?

Speaker 2 (38:25):
No, No, no, because it doesn't touch Cuba. But if
it did, it would be it really touches its tip. Sure,
just the tip, just the tip. I'm gonna go with.
How do you get like day to day. I lost
my doctorate in a gambling problem multiple times GM seme, scheme, predatory,

(38:49):
that's what it was, Jacob Ski. All right, give me
the one with it's a hill.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
A flat area. No, there was one sharp mountain ridge.
That's not it a dry river bed.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
No, I don't want any of those.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Give give me the one where I'll give you the
one that asked for. That's not an option.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Give me no, give me the one that I thought
was a peninsula. Yes, yes, that was.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
It is the longest way to get yea, let's go.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
I'm on the board, Jacob.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Last one, which great lake is the only one entirely
within the US?

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Oh? Oh that is damn. I know this lake Mead.

Speaker 5 (39:29):
It's a great on Saturday.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
I guess gonna be options superior Michigan here on Ontario.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Bro, Michigan's a red airing. Don't take that. I know
where Lake Michigan is. That's the one an American state.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Yeah, no, I got that one.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Just seems like that'd be how many.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Great lakes are there?

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Five?

Speaker 4 (39:53):
That's what I thought. I think because I wasn't going
to take choices that, I was like, wait, I think
they're more great Lakes.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
I'm getting angry.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
Angry Nick, I.

Speaker 5 (40:06):
Don't have angry, n I think.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
I've got that one. I give myself.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
Honestly, crazy crazy Fitness.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
I checked that one.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
I thought, so, I think it's I'll say Huron, No,
it's Michigan. It is Michigan.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
It was curledon Canada Michigan because you got Michigan on
one side Illinois or Michigan's on one side Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
But you have to like go through part of Canada
to get certain places in Michigan.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
Right, all right, for like from part of Michigan to another.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
You're thinking that, You're thinking the east part of Michigan. Yeah,
Lake Michigan is on the west side of Michigan.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
But no, never mind, Yeah, I thought it was. I
thought it was in that little gap like around where
the thumb, the thumb would be like Michigan.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
What is that, Jacob does?

Speaker 4 (41:00):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Oh, like she you've got.

Speaker 5 (41:06):
Down there.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Okay, fighting over a googleable fact. I'm going to go
ahead click that. That's just kinda happen.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Oh No, No, I was just asking.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
I don't know, I'm not fighting over anything. Yeah, all right,
Jacob I don't know all my great lakes.

Speaker 5 (41:29):
Jim mascul I have that one too.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
There's a lot of I'm go ahead and click on.
Jim requires excessive agitation.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
On the bird.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
I know he's if, I know he's going to lose it.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
That's a free space. Yeah, all right, staying motivated.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
Nope, that was the m soft.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Yeah, everybody's free space.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yea struggling in that happen a lot from b gay
do crimes. Hi, guys, I'm writing this email from a rut.
I don't like myself right now. This is long, deal
with it. It's thick and rock hard too. I'm a
forty one year old gay man living in Israel. Oh,
tough time to live in Israel. I've been with my

(42:19):
partner for nine years. I've been going to therapy since
twenty twelve or so. Been on a dose of lexapro
since around twenty fifteen.

Speaker 4 (42:26):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (42:27):
That is an antidepressant. OK started with ten milligrams and
then went up to twenty five milligrams during COVID.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
I'n't got a lot.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
It's about the average dose tens usually the starter dose
twenty Five's fine, cool. I've never been diagnosed but anxiety
prolonged and or intense sadness, loneliness, feelings of guilt, fluctuating moods,
and unstable self image are close companions of mine. I
stopped therapy about two years ago when I felt like
during most sessions things would get resolved without my therapist

(42:57):
uttering a word. I figured journaling would work well enough
and costs less. I was seeing a private practice therapist
when the war started and the shit hit the fan.
I ended up going back to therapy. We did some
meaningful work, and then my therapist eventually let me know
he and his family decided to leave the country and
because of the current government, a few years or a

(43:18):
few months later, he left as planned. We spent several
sessions discussing his departure, how things would go, that we
would try ZOOM, and how it all felt. I had
hated doing ZOOM sessions during COVID for couples counseling with
a different therapist and was not optimistic, which I told him.
After a few Zoom sessions, I decided to call it quits.
I felt remote therapy just wasn't giving me enough, and

(43:41):
it didn't justify the cost and the new time limitations
that he had before we parted ways. We were working
on the feeling that there's nobody to rely on and
how disappointed I feel by parental and authority figures. We
talked about my disappointment with my parents, my country, my
current and former bosses, friends and men i'd had relationships with.

(44:02):
Of Course, his departure mirrors the situation and brought up
lots of feelings. My psychiatrist wants to change my medication.
I'm not sure what to do, but he's under the
impression that I'm not happy and stable enough. I feel, however,
that he doesn't spend a lot of time listening to me,
and he has nothing but my word to go on
and sees me once every two months. I will admit

(44:24):
that I've done MDMA and some other party drugs a
few times this year, knowing that it can fuck with
my mood. I think my overall question is what the
fuck do I do next? Other than start looking for
a new therapist and upgrade my Patreon tier, I can't which,
by the way, both can be the same thing. I

(44:44):
think I also want to know what the fuck is
wrong with me. I've asked for a word several times
and never got one no treatment plans either, heinik. Maybe
because both my therapists are from the school of psychoanalysis,
we never actually did analysis. Did I mention that my
previous therapist referred me to my current one when she

(45:05):
went on maternity leave. My subconscious thinks everyone, including my
parents and both therapists will abandon me for their other,
more interesting family. This is getting pretty long, so I
guess i'll stop. I do want to say that I'm
very grateful to all three therapists I've worked with in
the past. I made a ton of progress thanks to them,

(45:25):
and I'm in a much better place. It's not all
bad ps. I like Jim and listening to him talk
about ADHD for six hours is my hyper fra. Pod
therapy has been a big help for me this past year.
Thank you to all four of you. Remember be gay

(45:45):
do crimes?

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Well, first off, I hope you're safe, and I hope
everything's going well. It's pretty scary time to be over there.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
So was something going on over there?

Speaker 3 (45:56):
I think there's h I hadn't really been much much news.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah, a little bit. They've got they've got some stuff
going on.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Well, I heard about some.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
Things abandonment issues.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
That's hard and I think a lot of people can
experience that with therapists.

Speaker 5 (46:13):
I feel like as a therapist, I worry about that sometimes,
like when there is a life change or my like
my schedule has to change or something like that. It's like,
how do you talk to a client that's been in
a slot? I know Jimmy said, yours bounce around a lot,
but like I have, probably at least half my clients
are a little more in a consistent slot.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
So that's interesting, right.

Speaker 5 (46:36):
So when you're going to shift things around for personal reasons,
it's funny before this letter, even I do worry about that.
I'm like, oh, how are they going to perceive it?
Are they going to feel? Okay?

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Maybe there's you have to let them go because it's
like there are no other slots and I'm cutting half
of this day away and that's it, right.

Speaker 5 (46:57):
Half a day away. Where I'm like, oh, well, these
are the other options I have, So can you do that?
Like yeah, I think most recently I had a client.
I have two clients who are kind of every other week,
so I'm trying to fit them into one slot because
they're very close together, Like it could almost fit, but
it's not. So I mentioned that and when I was like, oh,
that doesn't really work for me, and that one's like, oh,

(47:19):
it definitely can't work for me. So part of me
is like, well, I kind of want to force that
a little bit more, but I like feel bad, yeah,
because one of them doesn't have a great rate, Like
it's like, oh, I have to make dinner later.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
I'm like, yeah, make it work.

Speaker 5 (47:30):
You're gonna have to make dinner later than I am not.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
I know.

Speaker 5 (47:33):
I know. The other one like literally can't leave work
or whatever, so it's like I don't know, so I yeah,
I struggle with that where you kind of are pushing
clients into either a different uh slot, or if they
can't then if they really can't, like they just can't
meet with you, And then you're like, wow, we've like
worked and built this srapport and how do you transition

(47:56):
or what does that look like? I don't gosh.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Well, I mean in this case too, I think it's
so profound because I mean the writer's therapist left the country, yeah,
kind of for political asylum. Was sort of like, Hey,
this country's under attack. I don't love our government. I
feel like I need to get out of here, and
it's like okay, and they tried to keep it going
with zoom, but it's like, well, I also respect that
that modality is not for everybody, And I respect bgay

(48:20):
Do Crimes for saying I know myself well enough to
know that this isn't going to work for me. I mean,
because it is tough, right, because I mean, I'd always
nudge toward like, well, it doesn't sound like not doing
it at all is working, so maybe we need to
give it the old college try. We just kind of
talked about that in the A block, about like sometimes
you weren't ready the first time you tried something, but
like maybe you've changed since then, and maybe it's time

(48:40):
to give it back. But having said that, I do
respect that forcing it whenever that modality just does not
work for you is a real thing. But having sort
of this abandonment wound already and then having to let
go of two therapists, it really is so hard.

Speaker 5 (48:57):
It is I kind of want, well, first I want
to address is the psychiatrist. I feel like that's a
little like you know, Bunny Trail. For a second, most
psychiatrists only spend about twenty minutes. Fifteen minutes the first
session what I've seen is normally about half an hour, right,
and then yeah, every month or two you might get
fifteen minutes, right, and they aren't there. I think that's

(49:19):
a really big misconception that psychiatrists do therapy, right, Yeah, yeah,
that's what I've seen, at least like for just a plane,
Jane Plaine, Joe on the street. Right, they think psychiatrists
the movies portray this shows portray them like the chairitting.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
It's changed over the years.

Speaker 4 (49:37):
The psychiatrists it was more therapy.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
So they used to be very trained in it and
that was absolutely something they would do. But as it
became just exclusively this medical discipline, they became the psychopharmacology.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
Yeah, so I do think there was a show.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
Ok.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, Also probably has something to do with reimbursement from
insurance to I think it's where it's like go broke, right,
I mean a psychia tryst. You know, they've got a
very they very specialized set of schull.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
They can see andree patients an hour and get reimbursed
two hundred dollars for every patient that they saw and
prescribe meds to or they can do therapy for that
whole hour and get reimbursed one hundred and twenty. So
it's not even a question they're going to get a
thousand dollars an hour and just keep shuffling people through
the system, right, And also like it's it's not I mean,
they can't do it. There's not enough of them. And

(50:27):
there's actually this huge movement in the APA right now
to get psychiatry back to the basics of like learning psychotherapy.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
It's kind of an interesting discussion because they're saying, Hey,
we've lost touch with this skill. We don't know how
to do it, and we're so out of touch that
we can't even collaborate with our mental health colleagues anymore
because all the therapists look at us like we're dumb
because we don't speak that language anymore. Yeah, and like
they've learned that, like we therapists have learned to speak psychopharmacology.
So a lot of times the psychiatrists feel a lot
of the loop.

Speaker 5 (50:54):
I do think. I think back to a friend of
mine when I worked at the insurance company. They were
at LCSW and they had considered going to school to
become a psychiatrist. I think they would have done great
in it, you know whatever. But they talked to the psychiatrists.
One of the psychiatrists on staff for this like major
nationwide company, but she had talked to them and asked like, hey,

(51:17):
what are your thoughts about getting into that field? And
the psychiatrists literally told her like, I don't do it.
They were like, I don't think it's worth it because
there is this weird kind of what you said. You
can either do therapy or you're basically a doctor. Doctors
prescribed psychiatric meths like to an extent, like just your
general practitioner. So like, where does psychiatry fit into this?

(51:38):
It's like a nurse practitioners are doing most of it. Now, Like,
where does the actual psychiatrist fit into this?

Speaker 4 (51:44):
It's my doctor? Would they? First, I forget what the
medication was, but my doctor several years ago put me
on a medication and I guess one of the possible
side effects of this medication was depression. And so, you know,
follow up appointment, you know, he has this whole question
Genaire about you know, are you depressed with whatever. It
wasn't even the scale, it was more just yes or

(52:06):
no questions.

Speaker 5 (52:06):
Yeah, like ten questions maybe or no. I think I
feel like most doctors do that. Now it's kind of
interesting to make go on.

Speaker 4 (52:12):
But anyway, like he was and you know, I didn't
have that side effect whatever, it didn't matter. But he
was fully prescribed or he was fully prepared to prescribe
an antidepressant, yeah right there to counteract the side effect
from the other medication.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Sure, yeah, I mean that's just that was just his
next The typical doctor will do it. But I appreciate
where Biga is saying, Hey, it kind of sucks because
I used to have this therapist that at least collaborated
with the psychiatrist, and that's something that like I've I mean,
I really like that dynamic duo. I'm great not prescribing
meds and you.

Speaker 4 (52:43):
Get somebody on your team that kind of knows what's
going on. Well, we speak the same language.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
And I'll tell you a story really quick about where
the shit really mattered. I had a patient in this
last year who was dealing with some very severe OCD
and it really had a lot of co occurring things
going on, and this psychiatrist had been prescribing so many
meds and this person had gone to impatient psychiatric had
gotten out, was doing outpatient and was on so many meds,

(53:09):
and I was like, part of the assessment, you're getting
all the information, like okay, what are all the meds?
And like I'm looking at all these like meds and
I'm like kind of like counting up how many different
ones are related to serotonin and I'm looking at the
dosages and like, again, I'm not a prescriber. I'm not
the expert. They're the fucking expert. But like, I'm really
passionate about learning psychopharm Like I think that we need

(53:29):
to know that we need to be competent with you.
And I was looking at it and I was like,
I'm concerned of serotonin syndrome. But I didn't tell the
patient that because that's you know, I'm not going to
get in between them and the doctor. But I said, hey,
do you want to sign a release allowing me to
speak to the psychiatrist and back and forth like yep.
So they did that, and once I had permission, I
reached out privately to the psychiatrist and I was like, hey, again,

(53:50):
not not here questioning you. I just wanted to give
you a heads up. I'm seeing these physical symptoms in
this patient. They are extremely sluggish, they can barely concentrate
through so much an hour with them every fucking week,
and I'm like, look, i am spending four hours a
month with this human. I'm talking to their family, I'm
interviewing h this is what I'm seeing. They're falling asleep
in the session. They're they're like they're not coherent, they're

(54:13):
like not following what we're talking about, and like these
are not like congruent with their symptoms. And so I
wrote to the psychiatrist said, hey, you know, I'm just
concerned it might be serotonin syndrome. I just want to
give your heads up because I know you don't get
to catch all that extra data. Here's my data, you decide, doc.
And psychiatrist wrote me back and said go fuck yourself
all the way up and they were like, you don't

(54:34):
know what you're talking about. That is not your and
I was like, I'm thinking, oh fuck, did I say
something wrong. I am so sorry, and like this person's
like no, they're fine, it's not serotonin syndrome. And I'm
like okay. And so like a month goes by and
the situation gets significantly worse and so I write them
again and I'm like, again, I don't want to say
that I know what this is. I trust your judgment,

(54:56):
but I want to report I am seeing this kind
of symptomalogy in session. I am concerned for this person.
They wrote me back again and telling me like, you
do not know what you're talking about. I have triple
checked the scripts. We're fine, and patient goes to the
e er er doctor looks at the scripts, freaks the
fuck out and was like, Yep, this guy has serotonin syndrome.

(55:19):
Holy shit, gets him off of everything, calls the psychiatrist
and goes, what the actual funck were you doing this person?
Like there's no way that these symptoms just suddenly started.
This sounds like it's been going on for a long time.
And I'm like, god, damn, Like I was trying, Like again,
I was trying to help you.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
But that's a psychiatrist's response to that, Oh hey, thanks
for letting me know.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Yeah, yeah, no no harm, no foul, just like, oh yeah,
did that happen? Darn okay, you know, and it's just
like and it's so tough, right it just I don't know.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
I feel like we should talk about malpracticing little bit.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Yeah, leading it out, Okay, I was.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Laughing at the fact that it sounds like this psychiatrist
could get sued for some Sorry, I was.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Not taking the episodes seriously. I thought we're still bingo.

Speaker 4 (56:08):
No, no, I still have. I've got one left on
bingo that I could trigger one.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Still, I think you got to go for blackout though,
I feel like getting a straight line is too easy. Yeah,
that's actually I mean I could.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
I could just say one sentence and Jim would give
me the bingo right now.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
True, but would you be proud of yourself?

Speaker 3 (56:23):
And that's why I.

Speaker 4 (56:23):
Haven't done it.

Speaker 5 (56:25):
I got to earn it. Can't make it to you.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
I want to get it before I turn forty.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
I'm very youthful.

Speaker 5 (56:34):
Not a wrinkle on there. No, I think first of all,
I guess I should ask, do you have like a
referral for a person you trust.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
As a prescriber or yeah, kind of.

Speaker 5 (56:48):
Like one or two out there? Not really I have.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
I probably have one, which says a lot that in
practicing for thirteen years, there's one person and that I
kind of trust.

Speaker 5 (57:02):
Yeah, through like the the Novada Mental Health Associates that
I'm associated with. We do have like a nurse practitioner
that we sort of refer to, but I trust her.
And what I love is that I do have her
email and like if the client wants to sign off
like an ROI to share information or release of information,
to share that right, I love it because I feel

(57:25):
like I've gotten enough feedback from clients too that share. Okay, yes,
like she listened to me, she gave me good feedback.
We adjusted meds.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
I can check in not practitioners a lot of times
because they have a lot of bedside manner. They just
did not enter this career at that level and so
like they're, yeah, they spend their time. I do get
pissy with some of them though, because they don't build
for psychotherapy and they'll I've got one or two that
I've talked to and they're literally jamming it into their

(57:56):
thirty minute meetings so that they can go on it,
and I'm just like, this is dumb, Like you're not
trained anyway. So that's let's get back to this writer.
So big A Do Crimes is in a war zone
feeling depressed. Therapists that they've been working with for a
long time has left. They have historic abandoned wounds. They've
tried to adapt and try to health model that hasn't worked.

(58:17):
And so now it's this question of like where do
we go from here? You know, what do we do?
And I think it's tough because you know, they say,
I know, you guys are going to tell me to
get back into therapy, increase my Patreon, which yes, you know,
do both those things. There's a tough one.

Speaker 5 (58:31):
There's growth in change that happens. I think sometimes we
get very comfortable. This doesn't have to be a therapy,
can be with anything. We get very comfortable in, like
our golf swing and how well we're doing. Yeah, yeah,
we get very comfortable with where we're at and whatever
that is, whether it's showing up for certain clients. Like
that's why I love CEUs because it kind of forces

(58:53):
you to learn more about something else. Like those are
good things because we as humans we like to settle in.
We like to kind of get in a comfort zone,
even though it doesn't stretch us and grow us. And
so yeah, I think there is a struggle that can
come with this big a do crimes, mister, do crimes?

(59:15):
I think there is a struggle that comes with that
where we don't like change as humans, but also really
the only thing that's guaranteed in life has changed, and
I hate that for us, for us as human beings.
But trying to sort out what what is the next
step really just relies on what what you think is best.
I think it's great to maybe reach out to some

(59:37):
new therapists, see do some consultation calls, maybe a first session,
see if there's anyone that really fits well with you.
But I know that's an overwhelming task.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Well it is. But also we need to talk about
the m d m A. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:52):
Oh yeah, the m d m A in the room.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Yeah you mean, Jacob, Yeah, you're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I mean, here's the thing, uh.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Be do crimes that throws a big old monkey wrench
in a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
It does, like and I get it, Like I'm not
one that's going to sit here and scold anybody for
using recreational drugs. It's not my business. But I do think, uh,
really hard focusing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
I don't want to look at it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
I don't want to look at any of you druggies
focusing on my laptop.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Two are the problem. I'm the sober one, no high
in the parking lot.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
You do have to understand though, that that does throw
in a whole another layer of complexity to this Jesus
to a problem that's already complex. You know, you're just
adding not I won't even say one or two variables,
you're adding in a ton of variable.

Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
What do you see the biggest like.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
What maybe you could describe them in an analogy format.

Speaker 5 (01:01:06):
Yeah, maybe oil.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Car No, it's you know, anytime you're throwing in any
other psychoactive substance. I mean even like you know, Jim
was talking about someone who's prescribed multiple substances and how
it was problematic. You know. Now we're talking about, you know,
having a doctor that is prescribing something and then you

(01:01:32):
putting in other psychoactive substances that your doctor doesn't know about,
you know, and that just throws in a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
Do we know that the doctor doesn't know about that?

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
We don't. But I'm feel like the doctor's not like
adjusting their medications to accommodate for the writers md M
A use, you know that's the doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Because speaking of serotonin syndrome, m d M A plus
lexapro can lead to wrap it on set serotonin syndrome.
Because what md m A is doing has to do
with affecting serotonin balance. So I mean, and BGA doesn't
say like, oh yeah, I'm doing that once a week.
It's saying like, look, I've done that periodically. I'm owning that.
I'm sure that has been disruptive to the regulation of
the overall LEXA pro efficacy. Yes, but I think we're

(01:02:11):
just kind of agreeing with you be gay and saying, yeah,
let me let me have much oppression. Don't funk around MDMA.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
The problem is already enough to deal with. It's already
complex enough. I don't know if we need to add
another level.

Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
Let me ask this question, does it does use Does
BIGA using the m dm A make you automatically say
something physical has occurred because of the m dm A
the MDMA has has physically had an effect on you
and possibly continues to Right, or are you just saying

(01:02:44):
that adds a new layer of questions that we have
to ask, and we don't know the answer.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Question the latter of the first one, right, yeah, I
think I think biologically later or the bio biochemically.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
So you're you're speaking mainly biochemically, yes, yes, yes, okay, great, Yes,
thank you, that would be my main concern.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
So it's not a knocking gun. I don't think the
MDMA causes any of this. I think the patient has
chronic depression, is trying a stronger, well not even that
big of a dose of lexapro, but is reliant upon
a you know, moderate sized dose of lexapro, and is
fucking with MDMA. Well, it just knocks over all the
pots in the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
It's kind of like if you were going to fire
a bow and arrow at a target and it's already
difficult target to hit, and then so now you're gonna
be like, I'm gonna do this but while riding a horse.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's kind of the problem.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Yeah, it's a different but.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
We're working on like getting the drip, drip drip of
serotonin just right in this patient's brain. And that's what
the lex pro has been trying.

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
So this is not an issue where you're like, I
now have a lot more questions.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
You're saying, this is a physical issue.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
Yeah, the MDMA, this definitively causes a physical issue with
this medical.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
And we see this also even even off of the
lex pro, Like you could die by combining these two things.
But like, even if a person wasn't taking lexapro and
struggling chronic depression and told me that they habitually or
routinely or in some kind of periodic way use MDMA,
I'm concerned at the effect the MDMA has on chronic
depression because every once in a while, your brain's getting
this weird re like bath in serotonin in these ways

(01:04:15):
that are not regulated. And so it's kind of like
the old dopamine effective Bible. Yeah, and so it's like
you're getting all of the happy at once, and then
you're paying the debt of all the sad, right, like
the old joke that like alcohol's borrowing happiness from tomorrow,
it's that and so like, but it's MDMA. So it's like, fucking,
here's a month, yeah, you know of serotonin all at once,
and now all of your you know, shit's blown out
for it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:35):
Seems like Jim knows a lot about MDMA.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Guys who.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Party with Jim. Also, I feel like if we do
this top golf thing, it should be you have to
defeat me every game. So like all I get is one, Yeah, okay,
I get how much do you want me to beat
you by? Yeah, okay, you haven't been in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
All right, you're rusty. I just went to top golf, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
There are ways to win this game.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
That a good acause it's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Not going to happen exactly. If it does happen, I
just don't think it will.

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
Damn it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
I'm all in.

Speaker 4 (01:05:19):
I want to go play golf.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
I like to my last advice be gay. I do
want you to follow up with your psychiatrist. It's the
only provider you still have a connection with. And even
though we're teasing, psychiatry is not being very you know
in tuned, this is your last provider standing. Their prescriptions
sound correct. Those were you know, double checked by your
original therapists. And if they're saying, hey, look your depression

(01:05:43):
is growing, we need to respond medicinally, I'm telling you
to trust your provider. You know, I'm not going to
shoot on the psychiatrist. Yeah, I'm telling stories about where
they're wrong in therapy. I think has a place in
this equation. But I trust the the therapist or the
doctor in this case, on the ground. And so if
that's your and they're saying, I am in charge of
your mental health, and I want to increase this. I

(01:06:04):
hope you do, or I hope you will follow up
and follow their order.

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
Is that because you've learned your lesson about sitting psychiatrists emails?

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Yeah, with advice.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
He doesn't have a good track record when talk confronting doctors.
Never go with them, never goes well, never c Yeah
yeah yeah, that person is always.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Yeah yeah, always. As I'm typing the email, like wiping
tears from my eyes. Anyway, be gay, do crimes. Thank
you for your long term support of this, and good
luck everything going. There's a lot going on, so hang
in your buddy, be safe. We're gonna take a quick
break in when we come back, we're talking about surviving
shared custody. You're listening to pod therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Leona
Carolyn Albert, Sambi Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Houn, Darren Cunningham,
Kobe the de Loring Guy, Brady Blaycheck, and Max the
Ginger Scoop. Would you like to sponsor the show? Become
a therapy Patreon dot com. Alright, so your question better
not this fucking geography again.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
I already got that square on.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Jim being mad about the questions in a food chain?
What kind of organism is always at the bottom McDonald's options.
I don't even know what the question is. Go on,
Uh predator, herb of war, producer, decomposer.

Speaker 5 (01:07:30):
Okay, sorry, so which one's at the bottom? Future? All right?

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Predator, herb of war producer, decomposer.

Speaker 5 (01:07:41):
I mean decomposer.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
No, I'm sorry, it's producer.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Yeah, I would like to steal too late.

Speaker 5 (01:07:49):
Jim's turn, producer, final answer.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Okay, let's go.

Speaker 5 (01:07:55):
I think I got three points.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
Alright, Jim? What are the five type vertebrates?

Speaker 4 (01:08:01):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Oh oh oh uh uh mammals, uh, birds, that's two uh, fish, reptiles, amphibians.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Correct, but I needed them an alphabet, of course you did.

Speaker 4 (01:08:21):
That was silly, idiot, my Jim.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
I'd love to give you credit.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
I know you would.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Would Nothing would make I won't learn if we don't
have to enforce the rules equally. They're the same all over? Shit?

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Uh, Jacob, which planet is closest to the Sun?

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
I know this Mercury.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
You are correct, it's not a planet anymore. Duma energy.

Speaker 5 (01:08:48):
Nine pizzas. But we got to take Pluto out. Do
we do? We have Pluto.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
No, No, it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
It's a.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
It's a dwarf like planetoid or something.

Speaker 5 (01:09:00):
I think I saw as.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
There's there's a possible there's possibly a new planet. Way,
what's the other dog?

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Not Pluto?

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
Goofy, he's not.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
He's a human. He's like a human dog.

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
You're you're you're arguing that Goofy is a human. Well okay,
but that's the sentence you just say.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Just saying that Pluto and just say equally dogs, because
that's not true.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
I just said he's a dog, reservoir dog. Nobody said equal.
You know I don't like equality.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
You know what, You're right?

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
I do know that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
About you surviving shared custody, Hey, pod therapy peeps, I've
been going through a sort of custody battle for the
last few weeks and would really like some advice on
how to not lose my head through this whole ordeal.

Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
So currently you have custody of your head and you
would like to keep you don't want to share custody
of that half custody.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
I'm going to do my best to keep this short
and sweep and no promises. My ex and I have
been broken up for about a month now, and we
share a three year old son together. When she first
moved yours, I think, hopefully check when she first moved out,
we came to a very basic agreement that I would
get our son three days a week, the three days
that she works, and only while she is at work.

(01:10:22):
I agreed reluctantly with the stipulation that I would be
able to ask for extra days here and there. I
also believed her, the mom, to have the more inherent
right to our son, and that custody would default to
her and I would have to take whatever I could get.
My therapist and anyone else I described the situation too,
helped me realize that was just plain wrong, and my

(01:10:42):
son deserves to see me just as much as his mother.

Speaker 4 (01:10:46):
I think that was true at one point in this country,
that it was like the mom. It defaulted to the
mom for a long long time. But yeah, that changed
quite a while ago.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
The time that I would get to see him those
three days total to twenty four hours in a week,
that is one seventh of the week. My ex insists
the current situation is half and half and ignores anything
I say to the contrary. She has also made the
argument that his sleeping time doesn't count, which I fully
disagree with, but it still comes out to me seeing
him two sevenths of the week after accounting for that.

(01:11:17):
To make things worse, my ex has also been accusing
me of doing and saying things around our son that
I am just not doing. For example, my mom his
grandma visited me and we took my son out to
dinner with us. We were both very careful to keep
the situation focused on my son and didn't once bring
up his mom or the situation. Why would we want
to taint the time we have with him?

Speaker 4 (01:11:39):
And why would I Why would they even be discussing
the Jersey Shore at all?

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
The situation and my ex picked him up that's my
favorite bother.

Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
Discussing the Jersey Shore elevant.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
After my ex picked him up, she immediately started texting
asking me what we said. She's been claiming that my
son told her we talked poorly about her. I have
no idea what she could have said, and she won't
tell me or what. Yeah, she's been using this as
an excuse to stop me from seeing him more than
our arrangement. She says, I just make things more difficult

(01:12:17):
for them At his quote home, Now Father's Day is
coming up. I'm writing this the day before. We agreed
over a week ago that I would get my son
on Father's Day, specifically, with her replying, of course one
of my usual days I would see him as Saturday,
so I assumed i'd see him both days of the weekend.
I found out an unrelated phone call yesterday that my

(01:12:39):
ex thought we were swapping days and I would only
get him on Sunday. None of this was ever discussed.
I only ever received the of course. I brought up
the original agreement that I would be able to get
him extra days sometimes, and she brought up my mom
saying that letting any extra days would I would not
be getting any extra days from now on. It wasn't

(01:13:00):
a fight worth having that much.

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
Wait, sorry, the ex spouse said, because of the mother
in law bad mouthing. The ex spouse correct that she
was now amending the agreement that she would not be
she would not be giving that extrtisy. Yes, okay, that's
how I understood that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Thank you for clarifying. I then decided it wasn't a
fight worth fighting that moment, and just reluctantly agreed to
hand over my Saturday. Yesterday Father's Day was a rough
night for me. This whole situation is driving me bonkers.
I know I'm a great father, but I'm allowing my
ex to convince me I'm a detriment to our son.
It's the same reason I ultimately decided to end the relationship.

(01:13:39):
I had to constantly convince myself I wasn't a waste
of space, and I was losing that battle. Now it
seems like it's never going to end. I'm trying to
lean on my friends and family much more, but I
still allow my ex so much control over my emotions
and my self image. How do I survive this battle?
How do I stop myself from just giving up and
taking what I can get? How do I deal with

(01:14:01):
the fact that if I want to see my son,
I'm going to have to deal with this lady for
the rest of my life. I've been trying to avoid
going to court because I know that we'll just add
more stress to all sides, and I don't want that
to affect my son. I just want us to both
be adults and do what's best for our son. But now,
but how do we do that when we disagree so

(01:14:23):
passionately thanks for reading. You guys are the best. Any
advice is appreciated. Feel free to paraphrase. I just kind
of let the words flow as I type them. Also,
I typed them on my phone, so please excuse my
autocorrect errors.

Speaker 4 (01:14:35):
Signed Ray J. Shark.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Well, this just happens to be the episode that we
brought up that for the Patreon level, we will write
a letter of recommendations.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
I don't know easy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
I know those will hold a lot of weight in court.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
No, yep, I'm a doctor. Yes, judges think very highly
of this show.

Speaker 4 (01:14:53):
I think they do.

Speaker 5 (01:14:54):
Oh my gosh, there's so much I want to just.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Like get in there.

Speaker 5 (01:15:00):
Friends and custody battles with their their ex partners, having clients,
and custody battles with their ex partners, being a child
who was part of custody battles with their parents. There's
so much to say here. I think for starters, I
can tell that you care very very much about your son.

(01:15:20):
It's your Yeah, you got her, you care very much
about them. I'm just gonna say it, despite what Jacob's implying. Yeah,
he's on the m DMA stuffed earlier. I just don't
mind them.

Speaker 4 (01:15:35):
Water so he claims this is a bottle of.

Speaker 5 (01:15:41):
MDMA water is not a whole thing. Like I drink
this water. It tasted funny, and they're like, oh, now
you have like I think it is in d M. A.
There's like TV shows that joke about that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Anyway, I have no idea what you're talking about, but
I love it, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:15:54):
Because you're drinking the water that has MDM. This is
very much like a custody So this port like okay,
So you care very much about your son. I want
to say that existing in that space of like what
really matters that at the end of the day is
your relationship with your child. When you say I don't
want to make things more difficult for anyone involved, I

(01:16:16):
know that means yourself. Maybe in some space it means
for your your ex, but really it's for your child.
And let me just say, if you if you do
it the right way, if you monitor yourself the way
you have been, if that is true you are not
talking crap about your ex, if you're not bad mouthing her,
and you are doing everything very authentically to like what's

(01:16:38):
in the best interest of your child, your child will
be Okay. Yeah, Like I know my parents had a lot.
I knew my parents had a lot going on in
those custody battles. I didn't really see that directly though
there might have been some some tension, there might have
been things like that, but both parents did not like
directly bad mouth each other to me. If your ex

(01:17:00):
is bad mouthing you to that child, that's her prerogative
or their progative. Like if you know you are mining
your p's and q's, like you can know that you're
doing the right thing, and that is not your fault.
There is a chance that your child will be quote
harmed emotionally by this experience. You cannot protect your child
from everything in this world, and that is okay.

Speaker 4 (01:17:22):
Well. And also there's also things going on that are
happening now, Like if the mom is bad mouthing dad
to the kid, you know that's causing emotional whatever bullshit
is going on. But I'm saying like there is harm
happening already. The default states like doing something that is
not doing something because it's going to cause harm, isn't that.

(01:17:44):
I don't think that's a good reason of your life.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
That is which by definition harmful just unacceptable.

Speaker 4 (01:17:50):
Also, the sleeping thing is just bullshit. Of course, of
course hours, yes, that is bullshit. Yeah, because like you're
providing a safe home for that child. Yeah, those hours
where you're providing a safe home, that's what the judge
is a lot of Shenigan's going on.

Speaker 5 (01:18:04):
I feel like she has gotten in his head like
to say, oh, you deserve this or you don't deserve that,
Like I'm taking them all this time, Like, yeah, she's
definitely weaseled her way.

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
My viewpoint on this is you've got to go with
the legal route.

Speaker 4 (01:18:16):
What do you guys think you have to the legal
It'll be a pain in the gas, but it's going
to be a band aid and rip it off.

Speaker 5 (01:18:23):
Yes, because then you'll have something documented that you both
have to live by. And there's no like this is
half the time and sleep counts. A judge decides that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Yeah, right, she's in or she's like, you know what,
I'm putting you in time out. I don't agree with
your parents. I lately you gave them past ten o'clock. No, no,
you've lost your parenting right now.

Speaker 5 (01:18:41):
And honestly I don't agree with this. But you can
talk shit about your ex all you want. That doesn't
fucking matter.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
That's your business.

Speaker 5 (01:18:48):
You still get to do that, and you'll have your
kid half the time. Again, not promoting that, but I'm
just saying in.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Theory, but yeah, point of like, I have to shine
a positive light on you. I have to satisfy your
expectations or I don't have a anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
Your your ex doesn't get to dictate your behavior in
your house, around your around your child.

Speaker 5 (01:19:05):
The faster you get this sorted too legally, like Jacob said,
I think the better off you are because and the
better off the kid is. Yes, I was just kidding,
get it, Yes, if.

Speaker 4 (01:19:12):
You can get it to a point where it's just done. However,
you have to get get it there right.

Speaker 5 (01:19:16):
For For me, I was around four when my parents split.
I don't even have a memory of them together. It
didn't fucking matter. My normal is them apart, and that's
fine for me. There was no damage. I mean maybe
there was, I don't know the alternative, but like, it
doesn't feel like any damage was done there. It was
just this is my reality. We know you, so we
know that there's a lot of differ It's in the oil.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
You're always talking about oiling cars and shit. I mean,
you bring it up at.

Speaker 5 (01:19:44):
Me facetimeing my dad to rub it in from the Yeah,
I find.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
Out how Whitney's celebrated Father's Day.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
I tried to call my dad on Father's Day and
his phone sent me right to voice.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
Make it again today too.

Speaker 4 (01:19:58):
I was like, I tried to call only.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
To discover he was in Jamaica. I know Faja, my faja,
not not Jim's dark Lord, the faja, but no, my
real faja. Trying to call him, I'm like, where's Dad?
And I text my sister. I'm like, I do you
learn from Dad? Is he okay? She's like, he's in Jamaica.
They as you do?

Speaker 4 (01:20:19):
That is a yes. The question is Dad okay? That
is definitively okay.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
I would say there's no problem on yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
Is that what you would say? Nick?

Speaker 7 (01:20:28):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:20:28):
Woman, that was half Jamaica, which half be the bottom half?

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
When you I got married in Jamaica, and so like,
to get married in Jamaica, you have to be there
at least three days because then you're considered like a resident.
So then after that, I was telling everybody, you're a
resident Jamaica resident.

Speaker 5 (01:20:53):
Yeah, So let me just throw out there anyone I
know with custody agreements. When there is the parents birthday
or fathers or mother's day, there's no switching. You just
get them. That's just the time, of course, just throwing
that out there.

Speaker 4 (01:21:05):
Yeah, now I was I was ten or eleven when
my parents got divorced, and like I got brought into things.
I had to like go in she in court and shit,
yeah I do all that kind of shit, because that's
back then.

Speaker 5 (01:21:20):
Back then you could like twelve, they're like, are you
choose where you want to live?

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
So yeah, geez, we're talking late eighties, early nine.

Speaker 5 (01:21:27):
I did have a choice at one point that I
wasn't brought in.

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
The court exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
I don't remember it exactly being a choice either. I
remember it was like just like your opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
Okay, okay, okay, just way in yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:21:38):
Well, and but I don't remember if my parents asked
me that, or if a judge asked or if a lawyer.
I don't remember who who was.

Speaker 5 (01:21:43):
Let's be honest to By the time there's sixteen, like
you say the rest of your life, and yes, your
partner will say that too. Yeah, but really, by the
time I was sixteen, I was just thinking about this
the other day. I want to ask my dad this.
I was primary custody mom. That was my choice. But
like at some point I was like, at sixteen, wasn't
I just going when I wanted to do? I want
to see light out? I have a car, I have

(01:22:04):
a license. I'm gonna go see I have like soccer
games every weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Like I'm telling you guys what I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:22:08):
Up to it kind of yeah, does when I was
gonna say two, I mean because you say, like, oh,
I'm gonna have to deal with my ex for the
rest of my life, Like your kid is going to
be an adult in a few years. The level the
amount that you have to deal with the other parent
after your kid is an adult a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:22:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
Yeah, like my parents after after my parents got divorced,
after my brother and I became adults and were moved out.
I think the next time they saw each other was
at my wedding.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:22:36):
I was gonna say, yeah, that's it pretty much. Yeah,
that's very true.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
Whenever this happened.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
No, I was younger, I was ten or eleven, so
I think at that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
Age they're just taking you to a park and putting
both parents in the grass. And then they just release
you and see which way you got. That's fine, Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah,
that's what you picked. I mean, you're jingling keys for
Jacob the whole time. If they did that for Jacob,
he's just like, oh, alligators, he was raised by the swamp. Yeah,
from all that.

Speaker 4 (01:23:07):
Back then, like we did the whole, Like my brother
and I got split up the whole.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
We don't.

Speaker 4 (01:23:11):
Like my brother and I would see each other on
the weekends because we'd go to one parent's house on
the weekend.

Speaker 5 (01:23:16):
It was always interesting to me, like one kid being
able to choose one parent.

Speaker 8 (01:23:19):
That was more.

Speaker 4 (01:23:20):
Oh no, we didn't get to choose them, but it
was like that's how that's just how it ended. Yeah,
and then like my brother and I would see each
other on the weekends.

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
Wow, oh that sucks.

Speaker 5 (01:23:28):
Yeah, does suck.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
Yeah. They don't do it like that anymore, unless I do.

Speaker 5 (01:23:32):
Think there is a shift. There's a huge shift to
where even some friends of mine and this it is
what it is, that's their dad, even if they're a
shitty partner like they the dad still has a right yeah,
fifty to fifty before anything until they suck it up.
If they screw it up there alarm.

Speaker 4 (01:23:48):
The kid or something like that.

Speaker 5 (01:23:51):
Yeah, there it is, yeah, and that and that is
up to.

Speaker 3 (01:23:55):
The judge, not up to your ex exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:23:57):
There's a huge shift there.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
So we should talk about out how does he deal
with this emotionally, because I think that's the other piece
that he's kind of talking about here too, is like
hard what one of the things that he said and
I kind of lost the spot where he said it,
but basically like I'm still allowing her to manipulate, or
not manipulate, but cause emotional stress. Yeah, decide worth Yeah,

(01:24:21):
and uh to that writer, this is going to sound harsh,
but that's on you stop it. Yeah, I mean to
some degree, like you are allowing this person rent free
space in your head, you know. And it kind of
goes back to one of the things that I know
we've talked about in the show before. But you know,

(01:24:42):
Victor Frankel, you know, one of the things that you
know you was talking about in his book is like
like the one thing that somebody else can never touch
is like our reaction or our our attitude.

Speaker 4 (01:24:56):
Right. I thought you're gonna say, my no, noe places.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
Yeah, no, we've all told yeah, there's a Patreon level.
By the way, while we're on the topic, we'd all
kind of like to stop.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
What the Patreon is? You pay your way out of it?
You are obligated to no funds. It touches you, sudech
just you and does you paid your way out? Jacob
has Premata take out.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
In Soviet Russia.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
We've raised so much money for the show in the
twenty four hours, it's so crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
No, So anyway, writer, I think, yeah, it's one of
those things where and that's like, I'm not I'm not
blaming you for that. No, like that every single person
in your situation is going to be going through that
exact same thing. And I think it's something that we
all have to learn and it's a skill that has
to be developed. You don't, you don't start with it,

(01:26:05):
you know, but I think you have to first. I
think the first step is you have to come to
the realization that like, oh, like people used to say
this to me all the time in treatment. You know,
they'd be like, yeah, they'd be saying stuff like that,
but they keep pushing my buttons. They're retagonizing me, They're
pushing my buttons. And then you're kind of like one

(01:26:27):
of those things where you kind of have to just
be like, you know, those are your buttons, Yeah, don't
leave them out there to be pushed. Yeah, and you
kind of have to start to take, you know, that
accountability for it and understand that like, yeah, she's doing
these behaviors, but I can always choose my response.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
Yeah, And once you start to take control of your response,
then her ability to manipulate that just significantly drops.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
And I think that's ultimately the advice that we're hearing
around the table is, yeah, you probably want to take
action here, and you know, to step one step under,
you know, the legal action, just to put it out there.
A lot of families, when they're trying to co parent
and they're trying to avoid the courtroom, a middle ground
is sometimes to hire a therapist that does specialize in

(01:27:15):
children of divorced families and ask that therapist not necessarily
to be the mediator and make all decisions, but to
advise the couple as an advocate for the child, to say, Hey,
my role here is I've met your son. Yeah, he's
only three years old. I've visited with him, I check
in on him. Occasionally we do a sit down all

(01:27:35):
together once a month, and if you have any concerns,
you bring those up to me, and I perform as
the mental health expert of this triad, and I give
you objective feedback. And so if you know writer says, hey, look, therapist,
I'm concerned. I see my kid one seventh of the time.
I feel like, you know, my meetings with the kid
are entirely up to the approval rating of this X

(01:27:56):
you know wife that sucks. An ex wife can say, hey,
I have my concerns that he's talking shit about me.
I think he does it in an indirect way. I
don't think he's trying to be loud about it, but
he doesn't realize that he kind of smirks and rolls
his eyes and that kind of shit's impressing on the kid.
Can you advise on that? And this gives the therapists
a chance say, okay, great, let's talk about what's bad
about that. Here's what I don't want to see you

(01:28:17):
guys do. Here's what I do, And like the therapist
would probably say things like, hey, I really don't like
that a parent has one seventh of the contact that
doesn't add up, like and the other person has, you know,
six sevenths that doesn't work. And I'm not here to
enforce a legal understanding. I'm here to advocate for the
child who can't speak about what's best for their mental health.
They're three, right, But I am an expert and I

(01:28:38):
specialize in this demographic and I can be that objective
third party and I'm also listening to you. And also
that's sometimes really helpful because that therapist then serves as
sort of a co parenting mediator between just the two
of you when you have beef and it's like, hey,
do you guys want to resolve this? Do you want
me to kind of do you know, couples therapy, but
obviously not to help you be together, but to help
you work together to collaborate on this.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
Kid, right, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
And sometimes it's like, yeah, I fucking resent your mother.
I hate that bitch. I know she hates me, and
I guess I'm just grinding my teeth even knowing that
she's around my kid because I fucking hate her. And
it's like, okay, great, let's get that shit out here
in therapy because otherwise you're gonna pour that shit all
over your kid and like make it their fucking problem.
So if that's an option too, Writer, I like that,
But at the end of the day, I don't like
anybody ultimately deciding what your rights are except a judge,

(01:29:23):
and I just I really want to just My last
point on this is this point about like men often
feeling that we are inadequate as fathers, that like, the
true parent of the child is the mother, and like
that is this default sensibility, and like I, as the dad,
would be harming the child to reduce their contact with
their mother. Of course, they should be with their mother
two thirds of the time. And anything I get with

(01:29:45):
this kid is just a gift. I'm there to take
them to a baseball game. I'm there to like just
be the weekend dad. That is an outdated thinking. It
has always been a myth. We as fathers are crucial
to the growth and development of our children. We have
tons to offer and and the mom is going to
have a different energy and a different thing to give
that kid, which is also essential. But so are you,

(01:30:08):
And so, believe it or not, Writer, I believe that
it is in your child's best interest for you to
push back on these boundaries and basically argue or get equality.
Not for you though, yes you'll benefit from this too,
but because I trust that that is what is right
for your child, for them to have equal access to
both their parents. And if that's something you have to
go about legally, I encourage you to look into that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:30):
And if you want to play this episode for the
for the judge, no, I would encourage you to do
that as well.

Speaker 2 (01:30:34):
We will also write a letter for they.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
From the beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
Yeah, get the Patriots and the patriot Yeah, put a dollar,
it's a dollar, get the Patriot skim for the judge.
You need the judge to really get to know us, yea, yeah, yeah,
otherwise they'll think it's all silly.

Speaker 5 (01:30:49):
Now, I agree with with Jim. I think that uh,
that self confidence to show, like I know, you can
get beat down by partners sometimes especially I'm wondering if
that's probably how the dynamic was when y'all were I'm
going to assume that a little bit. So it's carrying
over into this separation and the reality is this is

(01:31:12):
your chance, in my opinion, to show your child I
did everything I could. Yeah, I mean, I hate to
put that pressure on you, and if anyone out there
didn't follow that path because that's what felt best for them.
That's totally fine, But I do think there's space to
like show your kid. Look, I tried everything that I
was able to that I could within my financial, emotional,

(01:31:36):
you know, all these means that I could to try
and have a fair play. I get in time with you,
and I think that goes a long way as your
child gets older. Something I want to touch on This
was a little surprising to me as a clinician. As
silly as this may sound, I had a friend some
years ago who UH was going through who was going

(01:31:58):
through divorce, and they have one child together, a preteen,
and during this time her ex spouse UH relapsed into
cocaine addiction. Okay, on paper though, what was like documented legally,
what was like provable, we'll say, was that she had

(01:32:19):
a history of a d u I a decade before.
So on paper it looked like she was the person
with a substance problem when she was actually the bread winner.
The she's the responsible person here and the whole reason
they dive worce. She's like, I want you to go
to rehab. He refused. They divorced documented, but nothing was

(01:32:40):
ever documented, Like nobody saw him use cocaine, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
Like, it was just she's alleging.

Speaker 5 (01:32:45):
He also, yeah, you having to lose fifty pounds and
he's five eight, you know, Like what, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
Anyway, this is so he can use that excellent melts up.

Speaker 5 (01:32:59):
I sailed to say that she is not someone who
would attend therapy before, but this was a stressful time.
They had just moved to another state, all these things.
She started seeing a therapist and the judge the courts
subpoena her therapist notes, I didn't fucking know that was
a thing. Let me just say, as a therapist, I'll

(01:33:20):
be really transparent. I was like, what Luckily she had
an amazing therapist, and she was like, look, the court
has subpoenaed this. This is what I'm gonna say, basically, like,
this is what I'm going to share. Yeah, but I
just want to warn you and let everyone know out
there that, like, uh, when custody comes into play, when

(01:33:43):
children's safety comes into play. I feel like that damaged
her her view on what the like, it damaged her
potential relationships with therapists in the future, because her one
main experience with a therapist was that they had to
go tell the court. And she didn't know that when
she starts, so she could have said some ship that
like I don't know, maybe the therapist would have shared

(01:34:04):
with a judge or whatnot. Anyway, I just want to
share that as information. It's not to say you don't
trust therapist. What I'm saying when there is custody involved,
things get really sticky icky.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Yeah, and I have those two my advice too. If
anybody is out there and you might be going through
a divorce that involves custody and you're going to start
doing therapy, I still want you to do the therapy. Yes, yes,
let us know. Let us know that it is possible
a divorce could happen and maybe some custody shit. I
need to know that anytime there's a potential legal issue

(01:34:34):
down the road. I having that information so helpful. It
will just cause me to be very careful about what
I'm putting in my notes.

Speaker 4 (01:34:42):
Yeah, you're going to look out for the patient.

Speaker 2 (01:34:46):
Obligated a kid, You're.

Speaker 5 (01:34:47):
Actually you're going to look out for Yes, right.

Speaker 4 (01:34:50):
I'm saying you want that, you want that heads up
because you want to look out for the patient.

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
Yes, exactly. Yeah, we just want to be very mindful
about what we're writing, because you know, if I know
that nobody else is ever going to see my no,
it's I'm running them for me, you know. But if
I know a judge is going to read my notes,
and I know a judge is not trained in psychotherapy,
and I, okay, choose the words that are going to
help them understand this translating ahead of time, right, And
so it's a useful thing to tell us.

Speaker 4 (01:35:12):
But patient probably has a very loose asshole.

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
Yes, I was just shocked.

Speaker 5 (01:35:21):
Bleached.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
How often were you staring at their asshole?

Speaker 4 (01:35:27):
Well long quick check in an hour a week every week,
not obsessively, you know, for the amount of time that
I built.

Speaker 5 (01:35:35):
It's a specific kind of therapy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:37):
Okay, notes, I could read my notes there anyway. Writer,
Good luck with this. It's a very very personal story,
and I think we're all rooting for you. Sound like
you really passionately love your child. I hope that you
will advocate for your rights. I hope that you and
your ex are able to reach a really healthy co
parenting agreement. I think that'd be wonderful for your kid.
But I really want to echo what what Whitney said,

(01:35:59):
I think for a lot of men, there is this
martyrdom like concept that we fall into. That's like, I'm
just going to go to work all the time and
pay the bills and my kids. One day we'll look
back and they'll think, what a guy. He was never around.
But you know what, he was a good guy. I
know he's out there doing what he had to do
for the family. And in my experience as a therapist,

(01:36:20):
when your kid grows up and comes to therapy, all
they remember is you weren't there. Yes, I don't think
thanks dad for knocking out those bills, thanks for keeping
the lights on. All they remember is mom was there
and you weren't.

Speaker 4 (01:36:31):
And sometimes that's not an option. It might for some parents,
for some people, right, but what whatever life throws at you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:41):
I do want to push against the masculine martyrdom myth
because I think a lot of men comfort themselves and
say that's what's best for my child. And as a
therapist wh will eventually treat your adult child, they're going
to say they missed you. And so if you're at
that juncture right now, do not fall into that myth
if it can be avoided and it's all in your story.
You could rise up and push back. I encourage you

(01:37:03):
to fight for your kid. I think it's what's best
for them.

Speaker 4 (01:37:06):
I really like the idea of getting a therapist advocate
for the for the child.

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
Little bit of a middle ground.

Speaker 5 (01:37:11):
Yeah, yeah, A lot of courts will do that.

Speaker 2 (01:37:14):
They'll assign one if they need to.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
Like that lot.

Speaker 2 (01:37:16):
Sometimes you can keep it out of the court if
you say, hey, let's mutually pick somebody, interview them, give
them the skinny, and let them advise us. So anyway,
we are going to take a quick break and when
we come back, we're wrapping up the show. You're listening
to pob Therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Le
Carol and Albert Samy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Helm, Jaron Cunningham,
Cody the Delordian Guys, Brady Malayic and Max the Ginger
Scoop And if you would like to sponsor the show,
become a theraproducer at Patreon dot.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
Com slash We want to remind you that you can
go to patreon dot com slash therapy and get our
extended show add free a day earlier and enjoy our
live chat discord community and our weekly deep dives, interviews,
skill shares, research roundups and rants.

Speaker 1 (01:37:59):
I am uh not guaranteed, not almost never.

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
In fact, I'm doing a series right now on the
realities of artificial intelligence, how that affects therapy, how it
can be used as a tool, but also getting a
little sci fi with it and imagining if AI becomes,
as some people project, maybe something close to sentient, what
does that look like, and how does that factor into
questions like can that mental illness be in any conscious being?

(01:38:25):
And how do we deal with that? So some really
exciting things to play.

Speaker 3 (01:38:28):
God talk about therape machine, of.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
Course I did. I called it cyber therapy very pumped,
so I have a whole bunch of very punny episodes.
I'm enjoying it. A lot of people have been having
a great conversation about it in the discord. Come on
down patroon dot com slash therapy and learn a little
bit and think about it with me. It's a lot
of fun to think about. But we've got some new
people that have joined the therap party. Who is new
to the family there, Nick.

Speaker 1 (01:38:49):
We got two new therapods, Uh, we got Kiera Welcome
to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
Kiera Knightley finally supporting the show, finally answered my fan letters.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
Yes, we just need Natalie Portman and then we're good.

Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
It's the same person.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
Oh true.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
Um and Drew Hellage, welcome back, Drew, good to have you.
And we've also got some new producers.

Speaker 1 (01:39:11):
We got two new THERAP producers.

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
Hell yeah, we do.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
Welcome to the boardroom, Max the Ginger Scoop out time, Max, yep.
And welcome to the boardroom, Chad, Meg.

Speaker 2 (01:39:24):
And there actually is a boardroom in the discord and uh,
you are invited to it automatically. All you other people,
you're not welcome the deal. We have to have elitism
keep societies together. We'd also like to think the benevolent, revered, generous,
and flagrantly pro therapy diehards who love you all so
much they give till it hurts the THERAP partner's dirty

(01:39:44):
bee and pick it. And we want to thank our bosses,
the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati. Members of the fan club
are THERAP producers. Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Junior,
Mint Smitty Scoop, Richard fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia Leon,
Cassab Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Martin, Sammy Scoop,
Slurpy Kai, Motherfucker, Ben Stanley, Slapping your face, Sarah Smith,

(01:40:05):
Adam Hathaway, Builer, t Mike helm Oscar Swanrose, paris A,
Sonny Boy, Darren Cunningham, Lib Sandra mcwoffle Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop,
Hey O, Hannah, Marie Andrew Lingmead, Emma and Tonka and
Pony Soprano, Alina Cody, the Lorian Guy, Brady Malaychick chick Filatio.
We should not put those two names together. That's not

(01:40:26):
gonna work for me. Gabriel and Brady mulaychick Flatio. I'm
just gonna say yes, Gabriel and Dame, Sean Sutherland, Max
the Ginger, Scoop, Chad mag and Adam Warren.

Speaker 1 (01:40:39):
Did we announce Adam Warren?

Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
We did not? Also their producer, Adam Warren, Boy? Are
you appreciate it? Sorry? I suck.

Speaker 1 (01:40:50):
If you would like to hear this episode on cut
in on Editing and enjoy our spontaneous side projects, go
to patroon dot com, slash therapy, and thank you for
supporting mental health.

Speaker 2 (01:40:59):
That's all the time I got for this week session.
Want to thank our landlords for the time being, the
ice Cream Social podcast and things of those of you
contributed to our show today. We really appreciate it. Remember
pot therapy isn't something to keep all to yourself. Shore
the episode with the world tack us on the sol
shows when you do. It's not pot therapy guys on Instagram,
PUDs and Twitter, it's pod therapy on Facebook and Blue Sky.

(01:41:19):
And don't forget all the extra goodies Patreon dot com
slash therapy. If you want to simit a question of
the show, you can ask anonymously.

Speaker 1 (01:41:26):
It's pot therapy dot net, email us at pod therapy
guys at gmail dot com, or click the link in
the episode description to be taken to our anonymous Google forms.

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
I'm next tangement, I'm an oily car.

Speaker 1 (01:41:37):
It's time to go to to Let's go if your
appointment next week.

Speaker 2 (01:41:43):
It's not as slam dunk.

Speaker 8 (01:41:45):
This is as close to a slam dot as I
will ever get hot. You fly too close to the sun.
I just want I want the two of you to
play the basic game, just the most. Whoever gets it
into the target the most times wins. We don't have
to do any thing weird.

Speaker 5 (01:42:00):
The most points by the targets.

Speaker 1 (01:42:02):
That's it.

Speaker 4 (01:42:03):
Jimmy camping lately.

Speaker 2 (01:42:04):
Top Golf is open till one am.

Speaker 4 (01:42:07):
Jimmy, don't camp. Fuck you up.

Speaker 2 (01:42:09):
That's what's gonna happen.

Speaker 7 (01:42:12):
Good.

Speaker 2 (01:42:13):
Actually, I don't want to hear your excuses.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
I'll go.

Speaker 2 (01:42:16):
I don't care ship, nothing that would work, will cancel everything.
Any camping plans, uh yeah, nothing too close to now.
Eventually I'm going to go back to the Grand camp.

Speaker 1 (01:42:30):
I don't like that. I don't like where these questions
are going.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
Just a group of children. That group of children, yeah,
you know, just a group of kids of no particular associations.

Speaker 4 (01:42:41):
Okay, okay, here you go.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
Under your game.

Speaker 4 (01:42:45):
I'm counting it.

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