#396: Imagining Spouses' Death, Sex Books, Disappointed in Mom

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah. For the record, Nick is sitting in a dim
corner of the room, Whitney, and I can still see
the lines from over here.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Peter's like me, his his smile line down here like
the eye lines.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm Jim Jobin from Fabulous Las Vegas. No matter.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
This is pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
You can submit your questions anonymously at podtherapy dot net
or email us at pod therapy Guys at gmail dot com.
And now broadcastings from the Churn. And that's Jacob, that's Whitney.
I'm neck designed for some pod therapy. I'd not like
being introduced. I don't like the feel of it. Yeah,

(00:47):
that come with the PhD.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
I gotta say, I came across something on Instagram about
an hour and a half ago about a certain Jacob Smith.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
This Jacob Jacob.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
This is such a weird tone of voice for Nick
to be used. I came across podcast as a cast
and talking a little bit about pod therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, I think I assume it was never actually mentioned
in the clip that was posted.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
All right, pot therapy, but plug I gave pot therapy
and ice cream social both both the plugs on the
podcast there. That was very nice. Thank you for doing that. Well,
I I only heard.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
That clip, so I guess I was going to say,
I'm going to save thing. You should listen to the rest.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Oh my gosh, Doble, is it this one?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, that's it. That's the one creators. Creator's Cafe is
the name of it. If you want to go, give
it a listen. It's her first episode of her second season.
It's a cool show. I've listened to it before. It
is just it's Jessica Payne, who is a multi at
entertainment person, taught at like AMDA in places like that

(02:04):
in Los Angeles. She's been a working entertainer in Los
Angeles for years and years. We know it from San Francisco. Uh,
you know, her and her husband are just toured a
force of a power couple when it comes to entertainment.
And she runs this podcast called Creator's Cafe where she
just talks to all of these very interesting people who
work in entertainment and apparently mea you said, first episode

(02:30):
of what of our second season of what Well.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
She does seasons on her show, so other podcasts do
seasons as well.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, I'm finally podcasting seasons. You know what she does
between the seasons, She takes a break. Oh wowson breaks.
I feel like that's an important part of having a season.
If you're gonna have a season, have a season break.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
We'll post Okay, after this season, we'll take one week off. Okay,
not a full week. Yeah, eight days. We're going to
record a double before exactly a bank show in Yah.
We have an email here we are planning husband's death.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
So I think this is a really upbeat when I
have not pre read this, but I believe this is
a very upbeat email that we're all going to have
a really good time with.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
But I did learn that Jim creates the titles for these,
so that's quite possible.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
That we don't know. It could be anything.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, I just have Jim. The title means nothing can't wait,
let's see. So hello team. Firstly, this is a good podcast,
and thank you for doing it. I think we got
a letter meant for another podcast. That's a that's a
oh yeah, I'm reading you ahead here. This is a
car issue. This is this is a letter for car talk.

(03:50):
We're very answer Jim's son can answer answer anything you
want about cars anyway. So I'm here to ask why
I I'm really efficient at planning the painful flow chart
of decisions i'd have to make if I discovered my
husband was dead in that moment. I don't mean post more. Sorry,

(04:13):
I don't mean post murder details. I just want to
get that out of the way. I actually really like
my husband. He's a very he's a very good bean,
and I don't want to murder him at all. Good.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
It's weird that you brought that up. None of us asked.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I was wondering though no one.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
No one said, huh, do you want to murder your husband?
Thinking that, I'm just saying you're pretty defensive writer.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
I'm just saying you're pretty That's all I'm saying the room.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I have a tendency to get what feels nearly obsessive
about going through steps that I would need to take
if I found out my husband was dead. Sometimes it's
about when he's traveling and I would receive that phone call,
while other times it's about when I touch him in
bed and he'd be cold. I go into painful details
of what would immediately follow, like calling nine to one one,
calling my mom and the final moments which I'd hold

(05:00):
him one last time before he is taken away forever.
I told you this wouldn't be a nup beat email.
I tackle details about how I would eventually have to
come back into our home, and how it would seem
so quiet and lifeless. I would have to go through
his stuff and decide what to keep. His family gets
and I donate. I play through trying to move on

(05:21):
while everything we own feel so deeply wrapped up in
both of us. I imagine trying to accept people's kindness
and concern while feeling absolutely hollow and dead inside. How
some days would probably just consist of waiting for the
next day, so I'd be one day further out and
one day closer to being okay. This spiral happens at bedtime,

(05:43):
when I'm more alone in my head. Sometimes the idea
just rudely shows up without a fucking infight. I try
to breathe and think of anything else, but it inexplicably
gets away from me typing this out. I know it
seems fucking ridiculous, but I can't shift my thoughts once
I'm spiraling. I try breathing things, and temperature slash environment

(06:03):
changes like sticking my head in the freezer, splashing cold water,
but often those don't work. Thinking about it with a
clear head, I wonder if those techniques seemingly don't work
because I am so activated and it feels like every
fiber of my being believes it is happening. Spiraling in
this way often ends with me weeping and barely catching
my breath. I usually end up looking at a screen

(06:25):
with the hopes of distracting myself. I try not to
look at screens in bed, but I'd rather take in
that sweet blue light, cooking my clumsy Panda videos instead, sorry,
looking at clumsy panda videos instead of continuing to cry
on my kitchen floor. That's fair. I'm not sure if
it's worth noting, but I am recently diagnosed with ADHD

(06:47):
and my oh vance five aance has probably worn off
by bedtime. We're gonna ask what that means in a second.
Maybe ADHD makes my brain speed run dead husband scenarios.
I don't know, but I am tired of this. It
feels so genuinely heartbreaking, frustrating, and exhausting. I just want
to sleep, not just hope to eventually tucker myself out

(07:08):
and or distract myself with silly little memes. Okay, that's
a bit of a long one. Sorry. Thanks for sharing
your experiences and insight with the world. Infinite thanks, pugs
and kisses. Too busy planning my husband's funeral to come
up with a clever name? PS, congratulations Nick on the engagement.
Off the PS, please take turns share in an exciting

(07:28):
announcement that everyone knows about except for Jim. Excellent, excellent idea.
That is too busy planning my husband's funeral to come
up with clever name?

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Oh man, that's a great ideo.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
That is the only name that we will address you as.
By the way, too busy planning my husban's funeral to
come up with a clever name?

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Too busy is your first name. We're gonna shore that immediately.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
So I do like the looking up clumsy panda videos
because my go to is beagle puppies. Yeah, if I
need to get distracted and.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Something to do yourself a favorite mister tangement basset hound puppies.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Oh yeah, wow, that's good life.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, that's a solid life coaching advice right there. Ever,
given this.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
One's tough because when you hit the spiraling stage, it's
like it feels out of control, and I actually love
that too. Busy tried some other things that you know
we've mentioned full name. I refuse, like putting your head
in the freezer, kind of those things that might shock
our nervous system out of that spiraling. But it seems

(08:38):
like it is not helping. Ignoring or avoiding some things
with anxiety doesn't really help either, because the way I
describe it to clients is like you're pushing away something.
It's like when you tell your teenager like don't do this,
don't do this, or don't think about this. All you're
going to do is think about it or want to
do it. So I think when we have reached that

(08:59):
point where it's like, well, yeah, pushing it away isn't
going to help. That just makes me think about it
more and lead to the spiraling.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Also, I do this to some degree. I think I
bet we all do.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh certainly, yeah, I think about that weird Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
And like not just my spouse either, like different people
like I'll go through scenarios as well. I'll be honest.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
That has never crossed from what is wrong with you?

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, but I was I was really just saying the
spiraling part though, like because I will, I will latch
onto something and really just dog with a bone, not
let it go, and I'll just I'll sit on it
and and really just go over and over it. And
like that frustration of also sitting with it adds to
the spiral. The frustration of not being able to snap

(09:48):
yourself out of it adds to the spiral. Like all
of these things are just piling onto it, and it
really is like frustrating. It's like you have to you
have to kick yourself out of that thing somehow. And
it sounds like the too busy is having a hard
time with it.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
I mean, it's funny because Laura will kind of do
this every once in a while and it doesn't help that.
I kind of have this little game that I like
to play, like we just we rehearse emergency situations. It's
like so like we'll be laying on the sofa and
then I'll just like fall on top of her. I'm like, okay,
I'm passed out, houses on fire, get me out of here.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
She's just I'm just laying there, just dead weight, and
then she just can't move. She did not move it all.
I would light something on fire and drop it on
you get yourself out of the fucking house.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I love this game. I'm gonna play it with Peter
and oh do it? Do it next time you're camera.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, when you're just laying on the sofa or whatever,
just literally just fall on top and just dead weight.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
You got to get me out of here. Go what.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Pressure's on? No, the imagining. I get weird thoughts like
that too, not to the extent that Too Busy mentioned,
but but like, oh what if uh yeah, like Peter's
in a car wreck on it, Like if he doesn't
come home on time. Sometimes that's the thing. If he's
like not like he's like, hey, I'm on my way home.
I know about how long it takes, and you know,

(11:25):
if he stops anywhere along the way, I'm like, what happened?
You know? And I go through a little bit of that, like,
oh my gosh, what would I do? What would I feel?
What would I think if like I got a phone
call and you know, something happened to him? And I
mean my go to I don't feel like Too Busy
is gonna like this my go to typically for scenarios

(11:48):
like that kind of artists it with it because my
opinion is that the pushing it away is what leads
to the spiral. Oh and this is just you know,
something to try and think about. You know, if you're
trying to push away, trying to push it away and
then you start spiraling, maybe before you hit the spiral.

(12:09):
Like for example, Petersley coming home one night, it's like,
all right, well, what if something happened to him? Or like, yeah,
maybe something did, because the reality is everyone will die,
all of us in this room. Someone's going to die
before the other person. Like it is an actual, like
percentage chance that that that something could happen to like

(12:32):
our partner or whatever.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
I really like that idea because I think, like when
first of all, I think this is very normal. Yeah,
it doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
To me, but normal apparently for you next the word here.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
But I think it's it's very normal because like that
is one of our biggest fears, right, having to go
through something like that. It's terrible and it's very scary
to think about. And so I think it's normal that
your brain wants to like prepare, Hey, let's ask this question,
you know, because it's scary me and I kind of

(13:09):
want to prepare for it. And I think I think
you're right. I think you're onto something in the sense
that like the more you try to push it away,
the more that you're kind of training yourself to believe
that it's it needs to be pushed away, Like this
is really scary. We got to push this out of here,
and so you're only reinforcing the fear of it as

(13:32):
opposed to just kind of being able to sit in
it and just you know, just like realize, Yeah, that's
gonna suck. That's gonna be absolutely terrible. It's horrible, and
I'm gonna have to find a way to get through it.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
And it's something we can't control. Yeah, yeah, that doesn't help.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
I was gonna ask that to The control factor really
stick out to me.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
I'd wonder if if too busy kind of does this
about other things that they can't they don't have control
over to.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
I would wonder the same, what's the funeral plans would
you come up with? This is what I want to
ask just Viking funerals, Travis.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
But there was too much bacteria.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
We're adding to the bacteria at this point, those bacteria plus.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
The shore keeps moving further away at some point it's
just too much work. It's gonna be a harder and
harder shot with that flame arrow.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, but that is just the worst feeling. It makes
me so sad and depressed, Like thinking about that for
a parent, and even that it's weird watching like your
parents' age and you know, knowing they may only have
statistically like ten years left or something. That's a weird
thought for me. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna have
to deal with that someday, and it's horrible to think about.

(14:44):
But I you know, when we talk about kind of
OCD or that obsessive thought process, one of the go
to treatments is to find a way to sit in
that and not push it away and not try and suppress.
But kind of if you to write it out, like
write the scenario out.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
I know this is a loaded question, but would you
suggest that, would you suggest that too busy kind of
work on this on their own or do you think
this is like something that I mean, we always advocate
calling a therapist and doing all that kind of stuff.
You know, that's the drinking game, but like, does this
this feels like a bigger a bigger ask for like
a friend or a colleague or something like that to

(15:23):
kind of talk you through. This feels like one where
I'd really want that therapist just to be there to
listen if nothing else.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, I obviously like between well, yeah, going to talk
to a therapist for sure. Something I did think about,
on track with what you're saying, Jacob, is if you're
already seeing like a psychiatrist for your viobe ance. Oh yeah,
we didn't come back to that.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Jacob. I believe what how I
was going to come back to it was to ask
what's that? Oh? I believe that was my comeback to that. Well,
it is a medication, yeah, okay, there you go. And
it's a medication for ADHD.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Correct A non stimulant, right, yeah, it's non stimulant. So
people kind of go to that if they don't want
like an anthetomy. That's exactly like rillin or adderall that's
my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyone listening? So, uh, okay, great,
we accept it. Great love that love that accepted it,

(16:23):
accepted truth.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
But what I was gonna say, if you're already seeing
somebody for medications, there can be some medications that help
with some of the spiraling thoughts, those OCD type symptoms.
So I would just say ask a professional about that,
that might be helpful. But I always advocate for therapy
before medication. So that's where what Jacob's saying I agree with,

(16:47):
like maybe talking to someone even just briefly, especially someone
I would say, who specializes in any type of OCD behaviors,
because that's where this is teetering into. I would look
for like someone who works with clients in that department,
and that could be really helpful.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Now, I think with the.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Kind of the the techniques that you've tried, I would
refer to those as grounding techniques because that's kind of
what they're meant to do. They're meant to kind of
shock you out of this intrusive thought and kind of
bring you back into experiencing something in the here and now.
And maybe those aren't really working for you, but anything

(17:28):
that you can do that's going to get your mind
like it kind of forces your mind to do something
like So for me, if I need to distract myself,
I'm probably gonna play guitar because that's not something that
I'm skilled enough to be able to do while thinking
about something else, like it takes my focuses, like I
have to like put my focus.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Into that, watch TV in French.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yes that no, believe it or not. I can focus
on everything else but that, unfortunately. But yeah, I like
finding those things like that where it takes a lot
of focus, that takes you physically doing something and it
makes you concentrate. You can try that as well.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Great, Well, there you go. I hope that was helpful.
I hope it was h Yeah, I talked talked to them,
talk about the meds, talk about getting yourself a therapist
if you're not already talking to a therapist. But yeah,
I like the idea of talking through this a lot.
Any other big announcements that we have since Gym's not here,
that we should talk Oh, oh man, I'll think I'll

(18:27):
think that plan my wedding. Yeah, the three of us, we.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Did it all last week.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
You were I got I got a nice present from
my mom. I think I got good mom points. Recently,
I'm gonna take her to see I'm flying her out
to Vegas and take her to see Paul McCartney, oh
in October, because she's a big Beatles fan from from
my back when she's a fifties kid.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, that's good those Yeah, No.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
I think it was good. Points called her up. She
didn't know where the tickets are yet either, because they're
they're pretty good tickets.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
In the in the arena, you're going to see Paul McCartney,
but I'm not gonna tell you where you're gonna.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
See in Vegas.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Right at dinner and be root, We're gonna take a
big break and when we come back, we are going
to discuss sex books. That's right, you're listening to pod therapy.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Scheiner, Leiah,
Richard Macy Sonny Boy, Thunder, Cougar, Falcon, Scoop the Slipper,
k Motherfucker, Sandra mcwoffle Elena gabriel A Done, Adam Warren
and he Gay do Crimes And if you'd like to
sponsor the show, become a therap producer Patreon dot com,
slash therapy. All right, we're gonna pick up where we

(19:47):
left off last week. I know, Whitney, you were listening
to the show, so you know what the topic is.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Were you really movie people and jobs?

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Oh my god, shit, I'd forgotten about it and I
was trying to figure out what it was. You can
have all of Jim's points.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Since he's not here, I'll continue on.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
Yes, all right, Whitney, Yes, which actress worked at a
Baskin Robin's ice cream shop and got fired for spraying
whipped cream?

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Uh in her hat? Okay?

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Sandra Bullock, Julia Roberts, Jennifer Gardner, or Madonna.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
I would like to empathize for just a moment with
all of our listeners that were really on the edge
of their seats before Nick said the word hat.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
I was definitely I was like.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Cream in her I.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Was in her scroll scroll hat. You know how to
give the suspense. Okay, we had Julia Roberts, Jennifer Gardner, Madonna,
and Sandra Bullock. Sandra Bullock, I'm gonna guess Sandra Bullet.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Oh that's it. No, I was gonna guess. Uh see,
it could be Julia Roberts. Who else? It was? Madonna,
Julia Roberts, Jennifer Gardner, I'll say, I'll say Jennifer Gardner. Sure, No,
it was Madonna.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
That was the bottom of my list. See that would
have been the first of my list. All right, here
we go, Jacob This singer used to dress up as
Elmo for children's birthday parties. Interesting, is it? Ed Sharon
Bruno Mars justin Timberlake or Harry Styles.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
That fields very Ed Sharon. I was, Ed Sharon, No,
you have to dress up that much heady kind of
looks like Elmos. Oh my god, I saw baby, Ed Shearon?

Speaker 2 (21:58):
What where was or a baby that looks like a.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Baby that looks like Ed Sharon? Okay, but not stole.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
If you're thinking Ed Sharon, but a baby like a baby,
Ed Saron, You're wrong.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
It just looks like an adult adult Ed Sharon. Baby
was this baby playing guitar in an arena filled with people?

Speaker 3 (22:28):
And god, I didn't answer the name Ed. Yeah, I'm
trying to remember where we were, but we were walking.
It was Laura and I were walking her some place. Yeah,
and I were a fraternity physically pointed. I pointed to
the baby and it was like that baby looks like.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
In real life.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yes, it was like this last weekend. No, I can't
didn't take.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
A picture of this random woman.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Pay know that Nick always compares all baby.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
A good point. I should have thought it was.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
On a side note, did you see the baby thing
at the Aces game. So they had like during the
Aces game at halftime, they had a baby race, and
so they lined up all the babies and they had
to crawl. The moms were on the other side, and
they had to crawl. One baby got halfway stood up

(23:23):
and just started walking.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Took their first up.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yes, game, Yeah, it's pretty solid.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, they're like the pressures on. I got this mom, like, okay,
justin Timberly carry Styles and who is the last? I
think Harry Styles.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Bruno Mars All right, last last? Here we go? Uh
it's ear turn. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Which talk show host was a vacuum cleaner salesman early
in life? Ellen DeGeneres, Oprah Winfrey, Jimmy Fallon or James Cordon.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
I was gonna say Phil Donahue. Phil Donahue would have
been a good one.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
James Cordon No.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
All degenerous? Correct, Yes, okay, last one, Jacob Here we go.
This award winning actor he used to sell refrigerators door
to door. Anthony Hopkins, Sean Connery, Morgan Freeman or Tom Hanks.
Anthony Hopkins, No.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
You don't know, Morgan Freeman.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
No point for Nick Sean Connery, I'm books on sex.
I have a family member who is in the sex
offender registered sex offender group therapy, and he showed me
one of the books they are forcing him to read
and to quote unquote learn from. It's a book from

(24:49):
the early nineteen seventies and is saying that all sex
before marriage is a mortal sin and give several examples
of people who had their lives completely ruined by indulging
in car Arnold Desires books. Oh my relatives, tell tell
tells me that this is the timber of all the
extra reading books the therapist running the group has. However,

(25:12):
the therapist is running a secular group and he just
can't seem to find secular books for healthy sexuality that
would be suitable for sex offender group therapy. Are there
any books that you all recommend or maybe just have?
Whitney Wright one know only her therapeutic past working with Jso's.
Oh my gosh, Okay, so this question is definitely for Whitney.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, I have some thoughts your wheelhouse. Oh oh, I
was like, did you have? Okay, I just have to
tell a quick funny story about writing a book with
Gso's one of my professors in college. I had like
an email catch up with him when I was working
at that Foster Carriage and see the gsays, and I
told him about how we would go like camping out

(25:58):
in Utah like with them because the owner of the
company had land, and they would like, yeah, I guess,
ask uh, ask anyone who worked if they, like as
case manager's therapist whoever, if they wanted to go out
and be like chaperones or supervisors whatever for these trips
because they're all juveniles, and yeah, so I love to camp.

(26:21):
So I was like, yeah, go out there, you have
your own tent, all of that. But that's a little rugular.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Again, nobody asked it's weird that you had awfully defensive there.
I don't want to murder my husband. I don't know
why you asked me. What do you think that asked it?

Speaker 2 (26:35):
So my professor was like he was only like he
was like thirty when he was our professor in college,
so he's only ten years older than us or whatever.
He was like, Oh, you should write a book called
Camping with Sex Offenders. I've just thought about that ever since.
I'm like, I totally I bet it fly off the shelves.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Come get it.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, late at night.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
No, is that a thing in the I mean, I've
not heard of this, that the books are have a
religious undertone.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Well, I don't know. It wasn't around in the seventies.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
I mean I don't think any of us.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
No.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Also true, like you have this beard, you wouldn't even
looked over you.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
But the books that you used in that program, well
they certainly weren't from the seventies.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
No.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I did a little research on this, and I actually
reached out to because I was actually was assuming this
is an adult in a group.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
That's what I was thinking.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, even though so okay, So I was like, well,
you know, I don't know what's available for adults, because
we have treatment workbooks for kids, like there's two separate
treatment books, ones for young kids like under the age
of twelve, because believe it or not, they also get
arrested and get put on probation for sexually acting out.
And then there's another book workbook that we work through

(28:00):
with them for more like teens or through the age
of like twenty one.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Is the law enforcement aspect when it comes to dealing
with very young sex offenders like that, is it getting
out of hand or is it Do you feel like
it's an appropriate response the kind of the issue that's
going on, or is it too little? This is gotcha
journalism that you've learned to expect. Spot there. I know
it's like I'm sitting over your sweating, like, oh, I'm

(28:26):
claud he's not asking a questions.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
My actual, my true thoughts on this are and I
didn't work with a lot of the really young okay js.
I worked with mainly teens, late teens. The youngest kid
I worked with was twelve, okay, so and there were
like two of them maybe, but they had a different
home where kids were like nine, ten, eleven. And I
my opinion on that, even the ones that I worked

(28:50):
with who were like twelve, is that some of their
offenses were like it seems like a lot, a lot
a big repercussion. Yeah, like a large repercussion for their
acting out.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Now, that's what it feels like to me. And totally,
I mean, I know nothing about it, right, I.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Would say the reason the only thing that makes it
not too harsh is that there's not really another option,
because the reason they're typically in a group home is
because they can't be at home. Usually there's a victim
in the home, gotcha. And that's not fair too, the
kid who had something done to them obviously the victim.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
So it's obviously not a perfect system.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
No, yeah, that's it just as hard because they're kids too.
They're they're nine year olds, they're ten year olds, and
you're like, oh wow, you're pulled out of your home also, And.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, no, it's tragic all around. It is.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
And they've like usually been sexually abused themselves. It's like
it's just sucks. But yeah, it does feel harsh on them.
But there isn't really another option. So yeah, that's a
good question. But I reached out to a friend of
mine who actually.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Get some hard hitten questions for you.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Later, start sweating out, what is Laura's middle name?

Speaker 3 (30:01):
Oh ship, Oh god, damn it. I just bought a
plane ticket for the other day.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Fuck what was it his birthday?

Speaker 3 (30:07):
No? What is travel or not? She doesn't have one. Actually,
here's the thing. God, Okay, I offered one year for
her birthday. I said, I'm going to get you t
S a pre check. That's going to be your birthday present.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
You should get global injury. No, she did not want it.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
She did not want it why she she's she it was,
it was it was going to be a lot of
it was going to be a lot of it was
not a lot of work. She just didn't want to
go through the steps to do it. And then also
she's very much on the side of like, I'm not
giving them any information. Like she's like, no, I got

(30:47):
bad notes for she will not she won't do like
a DNA test, you know, or like one of those
twenty three me things.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
She's like, I'm not giving them my DNA. Well, we
we recently said that that's probably a good idea, not
giving your DNA information to a private company. Now, in hindsight,
seems like a fine a fine fear to have.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
By the way, you should get global entry, not tsa
pre check, because pre check comes as part of global entry,
and global entry ends up being cheaper because you don't
have to renew it, I think every five years. Oh really,
and we're lucky because we can go you have to
do an interview for global entry. It takes like fifteen minutes,
but we can do it at the airport here. Oh,
there are only certain airports where you can where you

(31:27):
can do it. I'm going to have to do that
next time. Yeah, and then if you take an international flight,
it's magical.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, that's what I feel like. I swear after I
got Global Entry, there was never any lines anymore. But
I'm like, even the normal ones, I'm like, well, I mean,
I guess I'm still going to go through Global entry,
but everyone else is just as Oh, I mean, like
there's no line there.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Oh no, I thought you've been at the global entry part. No,
because there's never a line at the global entry part.
I always walked past the huge line at regular customs
coming back in. Actually this time it saved us back
into Philadelphia and we were.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Flying through Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Okay, so we were a little delayed coming into Philadelphia
from Lisbon, and uh, it ended up we didn't have
a check bag, which saved us a lot of time.
I'm not going to just having the carry on bag
saved us several times, including when our flight got delayed
going out the Parst time. If we'd had the bag checked,
we probably would have had to go with the bag. Yeah, ah,

(32:24):
and then we would have been stuck in Newark. And
nobody wants to be stuck in Newark.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
No one does.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
But yeah, so coming back we had global entry, we
didn't have the check bag, and we raced through everything,
got to our next flight, got straight on and they
closed the door like seven to ten minutes after we
sat down. Oh so like we were close coming back
in global entry. Okay, we passed the line filled with people,
did the one scan, and then we were out.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
I got a double check and see what mine expires.
It's been a while, but I don't think it's been
five years.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
But it wouldn't do me any good to global entry
if Laura doesn't also get it correct.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yes, I was like, oh no, no, you're gonna have to
put your foot down on this one tanment. You're gonna
have to be the man in this relationship and put
your foot down. Yeah. Yeah, I don't like that. I
don't like that. I'm trying to challenge you know what.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
You know what Nick? Nick would actually be like, okay,
by Laura.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
And just go through that. I already do that with
tsa preache.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
If you do that enough times, yeah, well fuck, I'm
not paying for this to have to take my shoes off.
And on the other side, I know where I'm gonna
be at.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I guess I'm thinking of when like either Peter or
I one of us, only like because sometimes they don't.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Sometimes it messes up or whatever. Yeah, yeah, that's happened
before s jes that has happened to me before s
J went through TSA PreCheck and I went through the
regular security line. I was like, I guess I'll beat
you at the gate.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
I was annoyed on this flight. So this was another thing.
On my flight to Houston, was I checked in flying
standby is kind of weird. I normally don't check in
on the APP, but I did this time. For some reason.
That was a mistake because normally just checking at the
airport and because I don't get a boarding pass until
I'm at the gate. So to get my security document,
I typed in my non traveler ID and it was like,

(34:09):
all right, TSA pre check. Great. So I get my
little paper and go up there and scan my ID.
She's like, oh, you don't have your non traveler number.
It's like, yeah, it is here on the paper that
printed out it says it. She's like, no, but it's
not in our system. I was like, bitch, okay no,
and so she sent me to the regular line. I
was pissed. But weirdly, there was some word scanner in

(34:31):
Vegas airport where I didn't have to take my shoes off.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
The shoes off has gone away.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Oh okay, I haven't been in that line and so long.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
That's recent. That's why. Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
I was like, oh okay, Yeah. I was like, oh,
this is not terrible.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
But yeah, it's like I think while I was in Portugal,
I think they changed the policy.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Wow, okay, never forget so any any literature, Okay. Yes.
I reached out to a friend of mine who actually
does lead adult sex offender groups in Las Vegas, and
was like, hey, what would you do your go to be,
you know, if you were in this situation. First of all,
she was like.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
What.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
The question about, Like, oh, they said it all of
our Jesus.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Books about oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
From the seventies. She's like, no. She sent me a
little screenshot talking about how at s right. ATSA, which
is the Association for the Treatment and Prevention of Sexual Abuse.
Its origins are back to the early eighties, so anything
before that in the seventies is not ATSA approved, And
that's a big deal. Yeah, so some facts for you,

(35:39):
but some actual books mentioned. There's a work book called
Building a Better Life, and that's based on the Good
Lives model, and that is what a lot of the
treatment books I work on or worked on. Oh I
am I have one client I'm seeing right now, but
we work on a treatment workbook based on the Good
Lives model. And what that is is trying to take
shame that there's writers talking about take shame out of

(36:04):
their experience and work on what are reasons you want
to be a better person, Like let's work the positive
angle here and not like oh, you're such a piece
of shit and they're horrible human for doing this to
someone else, but instead like, okay, you did this thing,
let's walk through why you did it, how you ended
up there, how to prevent it, but also like, look

(36:26):
at all these wonderful things you could provide, you know,
to others instead of right horrible sexual abuse. So other ones,
other books she's sent so that one's Building a Better Life.
The author for that one is Pamela Yates and David Prescott.
It looks like there's also treatment for pornography addiction that's

(36:49):
essential tools to recovery. There is also one for partners,
so if you have a partner who has any history
of this type of you know, accusation and you know.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Kind of an alan On type type idea.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yes, yes, okay, there's a book called Facing Heartbreak and
so that Steps to Recovery for Partners of sex addicts.
So yeah, there were some there. I can also post
these some of these in the discord. Yeah, I can
post those in there for others to look up. The
Road to Freedom is another one by Joe Lovinson.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
It is shocking to me that like there's still books
out there that are being used or curriculum that still
be used. That's that's based around that, Like the based
around the the idea of like either complete abstinence or
you know, sex before marriage is immortal sin.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
There are places where I grew up that I would
be surprised right now if they didn't have those.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking too, Like
this this has a very deep South. Yeah, small community,
and maybe that's not where it is, but like, right,
I definitely recognize that that feeling from from where I
grew up, Like, it's probably not all that I would
I would I wouldn't assumed that it was all that,
but I'd be surprised if there weren't programs there right

(38:14):
now that we're acting on those same types of pieces
of literature. This also speaks to I think the problem
we run into a lot with mental health is for
some programs or or some disorders or conditions in which
they don't have a large group of people, then that
means that there's not many people treating it. So you

(38:36):
don't have a whole lot of options. Yeah, you know,
and so if you're going to like a really a small,
really small community, it's not so much this way in
substance use like it used to be. But back in
the day, like everything was twelve step based, like you
couldn't do that, and yeah, and so there were there
were no other options to go to, you know, and

(38:59):
so now we've kind of it obviously advanced beyond that.
But for you know, you take like the number of
people with an alcohol use disorder or substance use disorder
compared to you know, the sample of people who have
h you know, that are sex offenders or or have
committed those acts. That population is much much much smaller, right,

(39:23):
so the treatment community is going to be much much
much smaller.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
It's also got to be a tough field for doctors
to to want to go into. Yeah, that's got to
be a tough field to attract new talent, and you
know you're not gonna I'd be surprised if you heard
it as often in that field, you know, about new
and exciting breakthroughs and and new and exciting treatment options
studying that.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, it has to be so difficult, Like you have
to get people to show up admit honestly what they've done.
They're thinking like, damn near impossible.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
That's just an uphill battle on every side. Yeah, I mean,
at least.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
With substance use, it becoming a little bit more okay
to talk about. Yeah, you know, and I don't know
as if you know, sex offender treatment is ever going
to get to that level where it's uh, you know,
socially acceptable where somebody can just come out and say
yeah as easily as like yeah, I've I have a
problem with alcohol, Like you drink alcohol.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Covering methodicts or something.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
It's like, well, I mean it's not uncommon at all
to hear somebody in a boardroom talk about, you know,
like I've been alcoholic for twelve years. Yeah, I haven't
a drink a drink of alcohol in twelve years. You
know that it's a it's a triumphant story. You know.
I would be very surprised to hear that same yeah
version of that story from a sex offender. Yeah, like
I haven't I haven't sexually offended on the readgister. Yeah,

(40:45):
I've done it. I haven't sexually offended in twelve years,
you know, And I feel good about it and it
is valid. Yeah, right, Like I recognized this problem, like
I caused damage. I recognized this problem, and I'm actively
trying to address it. But still that's tough, and it's
tough for the three of us that sit here at talk.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
It feels very uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
I do have to say, though, one thing that I
put my pants on that he a little bit. One
thing that did surprise me because I've never I haven't worked,
I haven't treated j S, O S or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
True.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah, So I worked for I for you know, WHENNY
and I worked together at the same organization, But that
was because they were opening up a substance US treatment program,
so I was hired to do that. Now, if I've
as a foster parent, I've had a couple of kids,
foster kids that were Jso's I.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Was surprised, like, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Never actually treated it myself. But the thing that was
shocking to me that I think a lot of people
just don't understand is that treatment actually works. It does,
like the success rate, Yes, at least for kids.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
I don't know anything.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
I don't know anything about adults. I can't speak to that.
But you to be clear, you that's think it doesn't
work for adults. You're saying you don't know or I
mean I'm saying I don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Okay, great, I'll come back to that in a minute
to finish.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
But like you know, hearing about like the success rates
and the very low recidivism for juveniles who are treated,
uh treated for sex offense, like as a substance use
treatment provider, I'm jealous of those numbers. Oh yeah, got

(42:28):
I wish we could produce outcomes like that. So that's
one of the things I think the general public doesn't
think of. And when they when they hear I don't
know about adult. But again, like with Jso, when they
hear that, it's scary, right and then think like oh
my god, like this kid's crazy. Yeah, we're never going
to be able to treat this kid or we're never
going to be around this kid, or you stay away

(42:48):
from that kid or whatever. But treatments actually very.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Really good results. Yes, that is so true. With adults.
I feel like the numbers are not as great. And
I can't really I can't speak specifics, but my understanding
is that kill us, yeah, and burn the computer. But yeah, no,

(43:14):
I don't think it's as great. I don't have numbers
to back that up, like in front of me, but
that's my understanding.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
That just leads to the question that doesn't answer the
question why it's not like when is that not as successful?
What does that? What does that mean? What does success
look like? Not reoffending? Okay?

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, and really I guess not getting caught.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
But I was wondering if it was, like, yo, is
it getting to a point where you where you go like, oh,
this this patient doesn't seem to.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Are they're different measures where you say something like oh
they aren't thinking about it or they're right? Okay, No,
it's literally just the results based.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
So the question that comes into my mind is are
these adults, I mean, obviously they're treated as adults. Were
they ever treated as adolescents? As in like, if if
someone could get to them and provide them treatment while
they're juveniles, could that have been avoided?

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Is it? Is?

Speaker 3 (44:16):
It kind of like what you know, because that's like
one of the things with YEA with with substance use,
which is like, what's really important with substance use is
the age of onset. Okay, Like, so if you can
delay the age of first use of a substance past
twenty three, twenty four, twenty five, that person it is

(44:38):
a very small likelihood that that person will ever get
addicted to substances. The exception to that would be opiates
because as prescribed for pain medication stuff like that. But
for the most part, if if you have not had
a drink of alcohol until the age of twenty three,
it's highly unlikely that you will ever become an alcoholic. Interesting,

(45:00):
the age of onset is incredibly important and.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Does that because you always hear about people saying like, oh,
you know, my my father was an alcohol like, my
mother was an alcohol like, my my grandmother was an alcoholic,
my grandfather was an alcoholic. Like you hear about people
saying that, yeah, and so they just say, you know,
I feel like I've got this trigger in my head
that like, if I, if I start drinking, I'm gonna
I'm gonna pull that trigger and then I'm not gonna
be able to stop. So is I guess which of

(45:24):
those which of those kind of common thoughts bins? So
a little bit is that the like is the age
of starting the use kind of a bigger indicator than
family history or is family history still the big one?

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Or where does that kind of rank? They're both pretty
much the same. Okay, So there those are two different things.
But as far as what's a better predictor, that's a
good question, okay, because those are the two things that
I would if I'm assessing. Those are the two big
things that I want to know.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
So if I if I came you and said, you know,
I was twenty five before I had my first drink,
but everyone in my family they're all alcoholics, So what
would your concern level for me then be?

Speaker 3 (46:09):
At that point, I would still be concerned, Okay, because
it can still happen. Of course, it can still happen,
but you have gone through the most vulnerable time for
it to occur.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Okay, you've passed that. So the way better off you
would have been if you started younger, but you're still
not out of the woods exactly.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
So if you have the family history and I do
not have the family history, and we both didn't drink
until we were twenty four, we're not going to have
the same likelihood of addictions. You're still going to have
a little bit slightly higher chance.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Right. The way that I always described it is, it's
like if you were to imagine that you've got a
cup and you're filling the cup with water. So the
cup represents your biology, filling it with water represents your lifestyle.
As soon as the cup overflows, that's addiction. Okay, okay.
So the difference between you and me, if you have

(47:04):
a family history and I don't, is the size of
cup that we start with.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
Ah okay, okay, So you're just going to have a
smaller cup than what I have, gotcha, So it's going
to overflow first. But either way, if you can delay
the age of onset, it's still like less likely.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah that it happened, Alexa, order me a bigger cup
for everybody that listens to us on speakers.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah. No, I think the adult's realm is different than
kids for the sexual view stuff. But I like that
your person is in group and there. I like that
you're like reaching out for them and helping them. It
sounds like you're a support person for them, And I
actually really love that. That's, as we just said, hard

(47:49):
to do, especially when we're talking about people who have
acted out sexually. There's a lot of stigma that comes
with it. And anyone who's trying to get help and
do better one support.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
So absolutely, And for you writer that that book that
Whitney mentioned, the kind of support book might be a
nice read.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Oh yeah, I'll post all those in discord if you're
Are you in discord?

Speaker 1 (48:11):
We don't know. Oh no, this is an anonymous email.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Join our discord, Join our patreon. Are we supposed to?

Speaker 1 (48:17):
That's right? Join the patreon, patreon dot com slash therapy. Uh.
With that, you get free access to our entire discord
chat where you could talk to the hosts. Not me
as often, but if you tag me in something, I'll
find it eventually. Yeah. Here, but you can interact with
the with the other hosts really plainly and uh yeah,
And people have all kinds of discussions in there and

(48:39):
everything and really help each other. It's a nice little
community over there at the old discord Patreon dot com
slash therapy. We're gonna take a little break now, and
when we come back, we're gonna talk about having a
difficult conversation with mom. You're listening to pod therapy.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Schneider, Meliah,
Richard Macy Sonny Boy, under Krueger, Falcon Scoop Slippe, Motherfucker,
sander By, plaf Elena Gabriella Dome, Adam Warren, and Bige
do crimes. If you like sponsorshow become a theraproduce their
Patreon dot com slash therapy. It's Whitney before acting, who

(49:17):
was a limo driver and go go dancer? Channing Tatum,
Matthew McConaughey, Patrick Swayze or Gerard Butler.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
A limo driver and go go dancer? Mm hm, I
feel like it's not Channing Tatum because he was a dancer.
But I don't think he was a go go dancer,
but he was a dancer.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Like I see when you hear go go, I kind
of know what that means.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
But picture of the girl in like one little pillar,
she's like standing on it. But this is a guy,
so the guy is standing on.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
I always think of like the Flamingo or they got.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
I guess, but I think Matthew McConaughey did some ship
like that too. I'm gonna say Matthew no shit.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
I think it's Channing Tatum.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
No point for neck, Patrick Swayze, Jacob who worked at
a funeral home and applied makeup to corpses. Alan Rickman,
Whoopi Goldberg, Tim Burton or Helen A.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Bottom Carter was too obvious?

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yeah. I have definitely heard this before, and I don't
remember who I heard it about. What are the names again,
Alan Rickman, Whoopi Goldberg? I think Whoopy Goldberg?

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Yes, yes, nice Whitney which actor built cabinets for a
living before becoming a film icon.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
I know that one without the options? Yep, oh Whitney?

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Do you want? You want options? Mel Gibson, George Clooney,
Harrison Ford or Bruce Willis.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
I think it's a or d am I right?

Speaker 1 (51:02):
I don't remember what well Mel Gibson er, Bruce.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Willis, gibsoner, Bruce Willis, Okay, jem event can I take
that he wants to be a millionaire? The fifty to fifty.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Which two do you think it is?

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Can't give you those mel or Bruce, Right, I guess
Mel Gibson, Harrison Forest.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
It is Harrison Ford. We're actually talking about that last
time we.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Played true I didn't get that far? Did say I
finished the.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
All right, Jacob?

Speaker 3 (51:34):
This global, global, global pop star once worked at a
subway sandwich shop. Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga or.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Pink Huh, I'll say.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Beyonce, no Lady Gaga, no Pink.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
All right? Point for Nick. Hey, I'm kicking great, telling
old she disappoints me. Hello friends, and hello Jim Oh.
We'll tell Jim dyadim ha. I'm a thirty four year
old male. He him. My mom is sixty something. My
bio dad isn't in the picture. It doesn't matter much
for the purposes of this question. As far back as
I can remember, I felt like an inconvenience to my mom.

(52:19):
She loves telling me and the rest of the family
how proud she is for having raised kids by herself,
But I honestly think she did a pretty crappy job.
She never has to this day taken much of an
interest in my personal life, and always is too. Preoccupied
with her own problems to be bothered to be inquisitive
about mine. For instance, I went to college in a

(52:40):
scenic mountain town about two hours from where she lived.
Despite many opportunities, she visited a grand total of one
time during my four years of college, and during that visit,
her boyfriend at the time stared me down at dinner
and said, your father doesn't give a fuck about your shit.
Could also nice to meet you, pleasure. Did you want

(53:03):
the cob salad? My mom said? My mom sat there
and did nothing while I sobbed in the restaurant. Fast
forward ten years and now she and her new husband
now own a house in the mountain town where I
went to college. I don't know why I own a
house is in quotes there. I don't know. The two

(53:27):
of them go weekly now, which stings given she never
visited when her son lived here. This mountain house has
come to symbolize a sort of emotional neglect for me.
My birthday is this week, and we made plans to
go out for dinner her, her husband, me and my wife.
My mom texted me this morning saying, it's going to
be so hot this week, so we are going going

(53:47):
to the mountain house to escape? Can you do a
different day? This hurts so acutely because it feels like
such a flat excuse to get out of having dinner
with her son. I forgot ac doesn't exist where we live.
That's true. This is far from the first time does
this happened? And it won't be the last that her age.
Is it worth telling her how sick I am of

(54:08):
her treating me like an afterthought? Or is it better
use of my time to just smile and be resentful? Internally,
I always feel like that's a better use of time. Yeah,
I don't think she has the capacity to change, so
it feels like a waste of my time. But I
am so exhausted from the content, disappointment, love and not
a moose.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
Okay, So here are my thoughts on this. So you say,
should I tell her how sick I am for treating
me as an afterthought? Or use this time to just
smile and be resentful? Are those are not your.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Only two options?

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Not?

Speaker 1 (54:47):
How is it? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Okay, so Jacob's made up his mind that's the only two. Yes,
here's how the way that I've always advised people on this,
and I'm interested to see what you guys have to
say about this. To me, I just look at it
as matching effort, kind of like how you know my

(55:10):
my employer will match my retirement contribution. I just kind
of look at it as like, you're going to match.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Most of our listeners don't understand what our retirement contribution
is because they're Americans that don't don't have they don't
have retirement accounts. Oh yeah, that's true too.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
So I look at this as like you're matching your
mother's contribution to the relationship. And so to me, the
thing that I like about that is it kind of
takes the emotion out of it, and so it's not
like you don't have to be resentful. You don't have
to hold on to resentment. It's just kind of like, Okay,
she's putting in forty five percent, I'll put in forty

(55:51):
five percent, and I'm just going to match. And so
I'm never going to work harder than she is. So
I'm not going to brack her down or I'm not
gonna work really hard at finding another time in my
schedule since this time that we'd agreed upon doesn't work,
I'll just say like, yeah, we'll find another time.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
And put it. You tell me when it's time for
you and then and I'll see if I can make
it work. I I think that would be my approaches.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
I would just kind of step back and you know,
devote my my resources to other things, other people in
my life, other hobbies that I enjoy it. Would you
call that passive aggressive? No, here's why, Okay, I think
it could be. But I think when I think passive aggressive,
I think like, I'm doing this to.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
You, But isn't that kind of what you're doing?

Speaker 3 (56:45):
No, it's instead of that, it's I'm doing this for me. Sure,
So instead of like.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
I'm not even saying it's a bad thing because it's
passive aggression.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Yeah, yeah, no, I've passive aggressive.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
I'm just trying to figure it all out.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
But this is a great question because it's kind of
the difference between like in actually.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Ask me this stuff all the time, Like, aren't I
being like narcissistic if I do whatever? I'm like, No,
it is your intention to like do whatever.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
All has to do with what your intention is and
how you're dealing with your emotion, Like what is your
mindset as you're doing this? Because we get asked the
same question a lot of times when we talk about boundaries,
like setting boundaries, Well, isn't that manipulation, Well it is.
If you're setting the boundary with the intent of manipulating
their behavior, that that's different. That's not a boundary, right, boundary,

(57:41):
A true boundary is I'm doing this to protect myself
from you.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
You can do whatever you Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
I'm not trying to change who you are. I'm not
trying to change your behavior. I'm doing this for my
own good, for my own protection. So it's kind of
the same way with this, where it's like I'm not
gonna step back to try to manipulate you into stepping forward.
I'm just going to step back because there's no sense
in me putting one hundred percent putting in.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
Forty five percent. Yeah, yeah, I'll match what you're putting in.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. The one part that
I don't love or that I think is not super
relatable maybe for some listeners as a part where you're like,
I'm taking the emotion out of it, because what I
hear anon a mouse saying is that they have emotion
in it, and it's like it's there so I worry

(58:34):
that the risk is there that if they start changing
those boundaries before addressing the emotional aspect, like if you
just jump into that, I think deep down there is
like that's just going.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
To be a piss and match at some point. So
this works for me because I'm very stoic, yes.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
And say this is such a nick cancer, Like yeah,
just walk away and say fuck them and never talk
to me. And I'm great.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
But see that's the thing is like I don't even
say I don't even say fuck them, You just walk away.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
I just like just like all right was already implied. Yeah,
I'm just over here. That's like all right, right.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
So first of all, the fact it says a lot
about your mom with these stories about the boy. The
boyfriend's not the husband, right, these are different.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
I interpreted that it was a different.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
I was just making sure, like the fact that your
mom brings another human it doesn't even have to be
your boyfriend a friend to whoever around you and they
talk to you that way and they don't immediately interject
or come comfort you or whatever, like at that dinner
where there's like your dad doesn't give a fuck about you,
Like no boundaries would have needed to be set then,

(59:47):
but you're very young then it sounds like so I
think that, Uh, for me, I would address the emotional
side of that because I I think when you dig
around and really decide like I don't deserve to be
treating you have to like have resolve with the emotional

(01:00:08):
side first, in my opinion, so I don't deserve to
be treated that way. I don't have to deal with
those things. Or maybe people around you saying, oh, that's
your mom and you know she's trying or you know
whatever bullshit people will tell you to try and get
you to behave a certain way or make your mom
feel better, and it's like, no, mom hasn't shown up

(01:00:29):
for you in the ways that you wanted her to.
I would probably have a conversation with her. That is
just me because for me, I want to sleep at
night knowing I did everything I felt like I could.
And that can be whatever you want it to be.
If you feel like you've already done what you could,
listener like, great, then move on to the next step.

(01:00:50):
But for me, I'm the type like in my mind,
I'm like, all right, I'm gonna try this one other conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
You want it settled in your mind, your part.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Yes, I want to not feel like that's a loose
end that didn't give resolved. So for me, I'm going
to do it, and I'm not tinging on the reaction.
It's just all right, Well, if they respond this way,
this is what I'm going to do next. If they
respond that way, this is what I'm going to do next,
and that resolve is made before going into that conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
I think if you're going to continue to have a
conversation or a relationship with your mom, I think a
conversation is in order because you say your mom is
sixty something. Yeah, so unless your mom is dying in
her sixties, which is possible and terrible if that's true. Uh,
But like if death is in imminente, maybe you just

(01:01:34):
fucking live with it and you deal with your own
issues as it pertains to that, and you just let
it go. But like, if your mom is in her sixties,
you've got You've got a while left here, have twenty
more years, that's it, Like, you got it. That's a
long time to just be angry and miserable about.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
It's only going to need you more and then you're
gonna be real resentful then, like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
I'd have that conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
The more I listened to the two of you talk,
the more I think maybe it's me that's weird. Maybe
I don't like I don't like this because I I
go a completely different way with this. Like I'm saying,
if you're gonna have this stuff that you're talking about,
I had not crossed my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
If you're going to keep having this, if you're gonna
keep having a relationship, it's just a if it's just
like you see her a couple of times a year
type thing, then fuck it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
But here's here's also kind of how the way that
my mind works. And maybe maybe I'm starting to think
maybe this is unhealthy, But like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
All right, maybe I've taken it. I think it's healthy.
I think I'm just taking it to an extreme. I
love each other very much. They present gifts of corn
to each other.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Yes, right everyone, Okay, Okay, at least we're on the
same page here with that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Yeah, but what you're about to say is on the
right track.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Okay, But like the saying that that I love. I
love hearing this so much and it's stuck with me
though now I can't remember it. It's but it's uh,
not the best for nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
But us.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to statements
or stupidity or whatever. That thing is right, and like
I've taken that to heart and I always think about
that all the time. And so when somebody does something,
it really.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Makes you think everybody is stupid all the time, and
you think you're just right about it, which is so believable.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Yeah, well, I have a question about that, because like,
when somebody does something to me, like my natural reaction
anymore is not like I don't get offended easily. I
do not get offended by anything, whereas I've noticed that

(01:03:49):
other people do. Like I've had this conversation with uh,
Laura example, not so much Oh yeah Laura, Yeah in Paris, Yeah,
oh my god. But like uh, or even friends, you know,
where we will be talking about something and somebody will
do something and then they're just like upset and angry

(01:04:09):
and it's like, oh, it just bothers me. And I
was there. I experienced the exact same thing, and I
don't think anything of it because I don't like, Okay,
yes this person did something, and yes it did affect me.
In some way. But I don't take that as they
did this with the intent to do something better. I
always assume they just weren't paying attention or it was

(01:04:32):
something that they didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Realize that Mom is bad. I'm not ass even things like, Okay,
I went to college in this town. She came to
visit me one time. Now they have a house there.
Now they're going there all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
Like that to thoughtlessness, yes exactly. Yeah, and that's that's
my thought too. It's like, I don't attribute that to
mom being malicious.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
I don't think it's you. I think it's just it's
just people don't think about it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Yeah, I agree. So why wouldn't you have a conversation
with them, right, Because to me, if you're ignorant, you
don't know. So I need to talk to you about
that and let you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Know because okay, so man, I need to be on
the same page with Whitney. I hate it on the couch,
that's right, Whitney and I are very replied right now
in my office chair.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
No, the reason I wouldn't because, like, to me, that's
that's on me, Like that's the way I think of that. Okay,
if I'm in this situation and this is bothering me.
Then I'm looking at this and I'm saying like, Okay, well,
why is it bothering me? If this is just she's
not paying attention, I can have this conversation with her.

(01:05:40):
And is that going to improve her attentiveness? Probably not.
She's going to be the same person she was before,
but she's not going to be any I don't think
it's going to change behavior.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
But whether it changes behavior or not, you can still
get some positives out of it. I mean you can.
You can get it out into the open, for one thing.
And also, even if mom doesn't change your behavior, if
you see Mom even making an effort to change to
change behavior, I mean that could be a step in
the right direction as well. Now, and again, like I
think it does. I just think like if you don't
deal with it, you're going to be dealing with it.

(01:06:13):
You're gonna deal with it either now and deal with
it once, and it's going to be uncomfortable and awkward,
and you're gonna have to do that or you're just
gonna be upset and sad about it for the rest
of Mom's life, and then after she dies, you're gonna
be upset and sad about it, and she's going to be.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Dead or trying to deal with it when she's seventy
five or eighty. And then you're like, uh.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
So it really kind of depends on the relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
With Laura.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
No, no, I wouldn't yes exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
So yeah, and and like I've actually got a few
different layers of examples of this exact same thing us
now that I think about this, because you're one hundred
percent right if this was Laura. Okay, we're going to
have this talk because I need you to know how
I felt when this happened. I want to bring this
a two year attention. And even if it doesn't change behavior,

(01:07:00):
like Jacob said, you know, me being able to talk
about that may also explain why you're reading something from me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
I also have another friend that I think just like
he's he means well, he just doesn't think before he
says stuff, and like we don't live anywhere close to
each other at the moment, and so with him, I've
not approched. He said some stuff that if really that's

(01:07:28):
bothered me. Right, and then but it's stuff that like
I'm not going to bring up because it's that's just him.
That's just how his mind works. He says whatever pops
into his head and he there's no filter. It just
kind of goes and so it's just like, Okay, well
I kind of know what I'm signing up for, Okay,

(01:07:49):
Like this is the relationship that we have, this is
who he is. If he's going to say something's going
to bother me, they're just like, all right, I gotta go,
I'll talk to you later, right, And then there's no
point to me. I think even bringing it up to
share like how I feel about this, if.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
It's not like it's just him, he's like not gonna
start filtering for you, like this buddy that you see
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
So yeah, but that's not that's not a parent true.
But honestly, I think even my parents, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Maybe, I mean, I'll push back around that a little
bit though, because like part of this is going to
be for do we have a name? It was uh
for part of a not a mouse though, I mean,
it's gotta be there's gotta be some anger there, clearly,
Like I'm so surprised to hear you say that that

(01:08:39):
being the mom doesn't make it different when every therapist
cartoon talks about like how important the mother child relationship is, Like,
that's all you. I'm not against going against cartoons.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
I'm not that I'm always on the side of cartoons.
What's to come after you next?

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
I have a thought on that though, because, like with
your partner, there is a presumption that they do care
about you. So if there's something they're doing that is
not showing that, it's like, hey, that's up, Like you
said this thing. It hurt me with your parent anon
a mouse, You're saying like, I don't think they fucking
care about me. They like not that that's true, but

(01:09:23):
that's how it's feeling. So there's like a presumption my
parent may not. But I think this is where it
gets tricky with parents. We have an expectation, whether it's
by society or whatever, of how parents should or should
not behave, and that will really get into your head
the expectation like a good parent does a a good
parent does be like and if they don't do those things,

(01:09:46):
you start questioning like what's wrong with me? Why can't
my parent be a better parent? Do they just not
like me? That never feels good? And so then how
to address that because like Jacob said, there, they're your parent.
They're probably going to be in your life to some extent,
even if it's just to bother you when they're dying.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
And it's gotta be an extra slap in the face
that mom walks around talking about how proud she is
of having raised the kids.

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Yes, so like mom thinks she did a good job
here it seems like, yeah, which is kind of also
why I'm on team Let's have a conversation with mom
about it, Okay, because I bet it's it sounds like
it's at least important enough to Mom that she's talking
about one aspect of being a parent. Yeah, regularly, the
two of you are winning me over. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Okay, So here's here's something that Whitney said that just
kind of is an AHA moment for me. So I've
lived in Vegas now since twenty eleven. Okay, So whatever
math that works out to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Be is no one can do that. It's impossible. There's
no point even I don't even own a chalkboard, yes,
much less the number of chalk would need.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
A chalkboard.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Pull out your abacus chalkboard.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
So so I had this thought my mother has been
out to visit me one time. Yeah, okay, since twenty eleven.
Now does that bother me?

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Yeah? It does.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
She's afraid of flying and driving just she's overall just
afraid of ye.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
And so and so. Yes, it bothers me. Is it
something that I bring up? No?

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
And And I guess the reason why is because the
difference between me and the writer is that my mom
has shown me in.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
Other ways that she cares about me, or that I'm important,
or that she loves me, or all these other things
that she's been a mom in other ways. You know,
she does me here all the time. It was a lovely,
lovely Dorothy Mantooth. We have brunch. It's lovely. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
I mean, even even with with my dad and any
kind of disagreements that we have, he shows me in
a lot of ways that he cares, you know. And
so like, I think that's kind of the big difference
here with the writers, Like it means more when it's
not shown in other ways than all of these other
things that she's not doing mean more.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
So in that case, yeah, maybe a conversation you clearly
have a deficit of what you need from your from
your mom.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
Here yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would definitely, I just
have to spend a second validating. I would be so
pissed if I went to college somewhere my parents came
once or hardly at all, and then went and got
a mountain hometown or mountain the house there house, yeah,
and they're that same town and just was there every
other weekend. I I would be upset.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
I'm trying to think if my parents ever came to
visit me in college, so I would not visit me
terribly often. I was two hours away.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
I don't remember my parents each came like once maybe yeah,
I'm thinking my I went home a lot more though.
How far away were you from? Like how driving?

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
How far was two hours?

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Yeah, this is one of those things too. I like
don't talk to my parents very often, Like I would
go months without talking to them, and yeah, anyway, but
my roommate would talk to her parents almost every day,
And I was.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
Like, s J does that, Yes, talked to her mom.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
It's very normal. It doesn't every day, but several times
a week, right exactly? Really consistently maybe every day? Yeah, yeah,
like a text to call whatever, like a FaceTime.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
I try to talk to teach my parents, like I
try to call them once every week or so.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
I had to make a pact with my mom. I mean,
y'all met her, but that was like we would go
months and I was like this, I want to talk
more often. So we made a pact every two weeks
we haven't heard from each other by then, then we
have It's an f though.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Yeah, yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
It was a conversation I had with her. I was like,
this is what I would like if you want to
do that. If not, then I'm going to match your energy.
Then I'm on next page. That's where I'm like, I
think you don't have the conversation first though. Yes, the conversation,
the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
The opportunity is the conversation, and it's and all I
think all you're looking for is any movement at all.
I don't think it has to be a change. I
think all you're looking for is maybe even just an.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Acknowledgment, agreed, agreed, and then an educated decision after that,
Like you make you have all the you have the
facts you need from there, and how do we.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Want this relationship to look going forward? We both want
to be happy with our relationship going forward. How do
we want that to look because like right now, I'm
not happy with how this looks, and I don't want
to continue doing that. I don't I don't want to
be unhappy with my mom all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Totally, totally. Yeah, it's complicated, those parent dynamics. Yeah, I
would be really upset in your shoes. So I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
There's no guide book. I guess there are now, but
there's not like an official guidebook to being a parent,
like it's it's just tricky. Yes, there is. It's called
the Holy Bible. Jacob. Now, I thought we sure Dad
Vice was about to get out. What's that? I know?
It's a It's a thing that holds up my coffee table.

(01:15:23):
So there you going on a mouse. We did some
good work today, we did. I feel like we got
more into the weeds today without Jim around. Wee, we
got a little more into the weeds on some stuff
that we usually would have zo. Yeah, we're gonna take
quick break when we come back. We're gonna end the show.
You're listening to pod Therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Schneider, Melia
Richard Macy, Sonny Boy, Thunder, Kruger, Falcon Scoops, Pikaye, Motherfucker,
Sandra mcwaffa, Alina Gabriel, Adam Warren, and Piga Duke Crimes.
Would you like sponsor the show? Become a therapyroducer at
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Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
You know I miss hearing Trum on those lists. I
miss a literal pickle, A literal pickle. Where are you at, buddy,
A literal pick Yeah, not calling you out, I just
miss you, that's all.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Yeah, we mis Jacob. How do you feel about my
phone being at nineteen percent right now?

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
I'm fine with it? Min is it seventy eight? Which
is a little low? Check my phone now fifty eight?
Perfectly fine with it. It doesn't bother me. But like
if as soon as I'm around a charger, and I
do definitely put chargers everywhere in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
I feel like I'm living a rich life if I
have a charger whenever I want one.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
Like I have a charger that lives next to my bed. Yeah,
I have a charger that lives next to my chair.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
In my living room.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
I have a charger at my desk in my office,
and it's like built into the desk. Too, so like
I just set my phone down on it and it's
flushed with the rest of the desk.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
I've got one charger, but it's a fifty foot cord,
so I can I just kind of take.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
It any quizes for us?

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Great, perfect, I don't think I got one. Thank god.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
The next answer was Ruth Bader Ginsburg used to work
as a what was she I'm trying to remember now.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
The car hop roller skates.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Yeah, that's all the time we have for this week's session.
Oh wait, I just kipt down a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
you that if you sign up at patreon dot com
slash Therapy, you can get an extra extended part of
the show ad free a day early, as well as
enjoy our live chat discord community and our weekly deep dives, interviews,
skill shares, research research roundups, and rants, which we are
going to be doing a better job at I actually have.

(01:17:55):
I've got somebody lined up for uh oh, finally.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
This show.

Speaker 3 (01:18:05):
No, I got a really good at least that I got.
I got a good interview with nutritionists.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Oh nice, I'm going to be that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
Interviewing and hopefully collaborating with with mental Fit personal training
dot Com. We gotta started talking about gut health the
other day and all the microbiome stuff. That's some fascinating stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
I want to know more about.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
I do too. All right, well it's gonna tell me
about the second brain. Yeah, make me learn stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
We got some new patreons, so we do a few
new therapods. Welcome to the show. Renee g Hannah, Emeya
and Scoop Bucky Welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Thank you for contributing.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
And of course we've got our their partners. We got
to think we got a list. We got a list.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
Oh, it is the first.

Speaker 3 (01:18:53):
First of the month. We have to thank all of
our therapods.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
All right, here we go.

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
We want to thank you, Thank you, the dark Lord himself,
Jim's Fasha University, Jeff Robert Brownie or Robert Paulson, Linda Brandmeyer, Scoopstnat,
Joseph Pangrazio, Corey Owens, Christine Phillips, Gavin Bristow, Karen Tierhark,
Kerry Tierarc.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
This is my sister.

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
Her name Kwe Scoop Kiwi Fruit Scoop Take an ev Podcast,
James K. Craig, Little Don Door, Jim Hunter, Scoop, a Tron,
Todd Canfield, Felicia Butler, David Sorensen, Shayla Bullock, Lauren is O,
Katie Chibakowski, Adam Patton, Neuzo, Matt's Lenegren, Lee Popsicle, Scoops, Scoop, Itter, Ascending,

(01:19:38):
Ian Soto, That Josh Guy, Mama, Ninja Scoop, James Dawson,
Sarah Olow, Grumpy Lake, Mead Park Ranger, Sam Buck, Karen mccaullaugh,
Leah Lilah Lee.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
Lola, Kelly.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
Nippy, Brian Emra, Matthew Johnson, Alec Lancaster, j D. Cogni,
Julius Cappell, Uh, there you are, Matthas Band, Brandt h Stacy,
Ken Tinsley, Fendley Smells Funny, Matthew Cubic, Chad Chad the
Safety lad Walker, Fluke, Philip Guiton, Temistry, Almost Doctor Nurse,

(01:20:16):
Joey Duffy, That just waiting for my number, Therapist Bear,
Joel McKell, McMillan, Kristin Robbins, Christopher de Grusie, Kirky Grim,
Tricia Ortez, Melissa Geisler, Freia Lawson, Kirsten Johnson, E. J Stewart,
you want to take one, go for.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
It, Mississippi Hippies, Scott A, Heather w Petty, Ladd Kyle,
Anthony Camarada, David Williams, Kate I thought it said Kate,
please Kate, Lee Police a fantastic Kernipillar, Buddy Dobbins, Eric Dyer,
Glitch Scoop, Nathan Musk maybe Muki uh a let up Bezies,

(01:20:57):
bug Nuts, Steven Landon, Adam Bell's, Kenneth Wong, John Finleyson, Mysterious,
Annelid Carmen Petty kJ Mister mister Poff, mister something like that, yep,
mister pof All. One word though, Persephonie Hazard k Pizzle Dizzle,
Robert Cole, Temporary Reality Shop dot Com, Jeff Darnell, James

(01:21:20):
Jamie b Jacob Hurt, Uh, what the Ssidium Societium Societium?
What the hell is that? Ray J Shark recreated? Uh,
Kilka Daniels or Silka Daniels? Maybe? What does scoop mean?
Jake Jacob billings Ley, Alex Jardine, Dylan Collopye Wolf, the
O five, Chris Courtney Dale The King, Adam Goff, Cedar Hayden,

(01:21:43):
Jesse Miller, Kevin Tribe, Linus Hackenson or something like that.
Your name is Hakasan Hakkissan like the club Linus Hakkissan, Yep,
Livy Grace, Terrible Day, Terrible Day. Itie bitty chicken farmer.
Does that mean you're itty bitty or that it didn't matter?
Yea get Kylie, Sam k Mathis, Zachary w Chill Food,

(01:22:03):
John Caravadis, fish Bumfish, Foxy Sally, Zelda Ray Skywalker, Cloudy Pies,
Hannah Amaya Winter Scoop Neck Pubes, Matthew Connor, john S
Andrea s Maybe ye Andre the wittle shitty titty kitty
fun Crapper, Ian Johnson, Wait, don't you want to take

(01:22:25):
the rest?

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
Yeah? And Rene gah so much theraodactyls. We have ice
Blue Scoop, Brian Lahman, Andrea Anderson, Lori Eltsroth's Size, Shawnagun Scoopy, Scoopy,
Jess jess Ooki Scoop, Dank Butta brooks Lyle adam Ripchik,
Lovely Spark, Jim and Monnu, The Offices of Counselor and Counselor.
Manuel Cavassos, Krusty Croissant a smug Mochi ice Cream, Nora Monico,

(01:22:52):
Momi Damante, Mike j Nielsen and BB Hermit and.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
I can I take their partners down? You sure? Ken.
We'd like to thank the benevolent, revere, generous, and flagrantly
pro Therapy diehards who love you so much that they
give till it hurts. That's the Therap Producers, Dirty Be
and Picket Picket pick it.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
And we especially want to thank our boss Is, the
mysterious and shrouded Illuminati members of her fan club, the
THERA Producers, Thank you. Jake Schneidermira, Robert Brownie Junior Mint,
Smitty Scoop, Richard Fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Richard, Leon, Kasab,
Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Sammy Scoop, Slipper, Kaye, Motherfucker,
Ben Stanley, Slap in your face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer,

(01:23:38):
t Mike helm Oscar swanros Paris A Sunny Boy, Darren Cunningham,
Lib Sandra mcwoffle Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop Heyo, Hannah, Marie,
Andrew Langmead, Emma Tanka and Pony Soprano, Elena Cody, The
DeLorean Guy, Brady Malay, Chick Chick, Filatio, Gabriella Dome, Sean Sutherland,

(01:24:00):
The Ginger Scoop, Chad meg Adam warn Inca, Le Prince,
Sam Cone and Biga do Crime.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
Yeah. If you want to hear this episode uncut and unedited.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
And why wouldn't you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
Joy our spontaneous side projects, go to patreon dot com
slash therapy and thank you for supporting mental health. That's
all the time we have for this week's session. We
want to thank our landlords, the ice Cream Social Podcast,
and thanks to those of you who contributed to our
show today. We really appreciate it. Remember, pod therapy isn't
something that you should keep to yourself. Share this episode

(01:24:34):
with the world and tag us on the socials when
you do. It's at pod therapy Guys on Instagram, threads
and Twitter. It's slash pod therapy on Facebook, and don't
forget about all the extra goodies over there at patreon
dot com slash therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
Do you want to submit a question to the show,
You can ask anonymously at pod therapy talk nat email
us at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com, or
click the link in the episode description to be taken
to our anonymous Google form.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
I'm Nick Tangman, I'm Whitney, I'm job and thanks and
we'll see your appointment next week. Very good, Just like
we practiced in all right, let's hit record, do it
for you, all right. Bye,

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