#398: Self Doubting Therapist, Sisters Domestic Violence, Obligation to Father

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Why would you think I would read that? Why do
you think I would read the same thing you read.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
I thought you just read it for fun.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
I learned things in school. Prob This is pod therapy,
real people, real problems, and real therapists. You give some
of your questions anonymously at podtherapy dot net or emails

(00:32):
at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com. From the churn,
that's me and that's Whitney, and Jem's not here.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
So here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
I can't unlock my computer. It's it's too many no
what what it is is. It's like the numbers at
the top four, five, six, seven, eight nine don't work anymore,
and we have to really hard, and you're gonna have

(01:07):
to get a bluetooth keyboard for your existing laptop keyboard.
Luckily it's it's touch screen, okay, but I just can't
put it in fast enough. So when you play then
I'm like, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Fast with his hands.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
No, Jim jobing tonight. We just found out at the
last minute that Jim's not here. We hope Jim's okay.
We assume that he's not. Yeah, I mean we assume.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
That there is I assume that every day we assume.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
There is a huge tale of woe being written right now, Yes,
that we will all hear about later. Yes. Also, we're
supposed to do a double tonight. I bet we won't
do a double now. Yeah, yeah, I bet we don't.
I bet we'll just do the one now.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
That's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Then we'll make Jim do a double later. Yeah, we
could almost not do the one. Good night, everybody. I
guess we're done.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
We just drink whiskey.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Jacob now has the scription so excellent, So thank everybody,
Thank you all for joining us for this wonderful episode
that we are going to throw together. Let's see how
this goes. It's gonna be good stuff. I mean, if
Gym's not here, that's fine. I can prepare myself. I
can be like, okay, so obviously I'm gonna have to
carry the episode.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Right we're already, which I'm fine to do.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
You know, I'm a professional. I've been doing this now
for years.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah how many?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
A number of years? A number more than two Okay
more than two years? Sure, so but yeah, speaking of
podcast news, maybe I'm not supposed to talk about this yet.
I'm going to be a guest on another podcast this
other podcast have a name. I think, I think here's

(02:54):
the thing. I don't know the name of it. It
is it is, it is, it is about it? I
don't I don't have that information, don't know the name.
I should have podcast? You know what? I should have
not even started to tell we're here.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
We're here.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Is a shame that Whitney and I brought this topic.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Outing next to the profession.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
No, it is tangentially related related yep. And it's about music, okay.
So it's all about talking about people's experiences with music, like, oh,
I got stories. I'm so that'll be fun, very very excited.
I will have more. Do I know the host next week?
You do? Okay? Okay, I think I know what are

(03:34):
you talking about that? I don't think you do. I
don't okay, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Maybe he doesn't know the name.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
So we don't know because I didn't even know this
podcast existed until very I don't know why we're being coy.
Is it Ready's podcast? It is not? Okay? No, I
don't know Ready. Okay, I mean I've met him once,
but I know yeah, Ready Rich Records Penn Sunday School. Uh.
He has a podcast that he's been working on called
I Believe Stereo Image and uh. He does a deep
dive into different like music type and uh and like

(04:02):
music that was important to people as they were going
through different times in their lives and that kind of thing.
But it talks music. Oh yeah, yeah, sounds very similar
to the show that you're going on. Very similar. Yeah yeah,
maybe you could just share that interview with Ready. He
can just post it. He can just like in post
put himself in asking the questions. That's a green idea. There,
I go. All right. We got a letter today from

(04:24):
doubting myself as a therapist. Hello, I am a longtime
listener and have even submitted questions regarding advice from the
Three Stooges and Whitney. Well, I don't even know who
you mean by that. I mean there's Nick, there's Jim.
I mean they're Stooges, and there's Whitney. I mean you
clearly don't mean Whitney. And the only person on the
show is me. I mean you couldn't mean me. So

(04:45):
I just don't know what you mean. I guess I'll
just move on. I guess I only have the letter
to go on, so I don't have any more information.
I am a licensed mental health clinical counselor for over
a year and have been practicing for four years. I
still find myself thinking what the fuck am I doing?
As I continue to prectice in an independent substance abuse
treatment center, oh, sorry, a patient treatment abuse or patient

(05:06):
substance abuse treatment center. I love what I do and
I love the population I serve. I do not see
myself going anywhere. However, at times we get tough cases
that make me question my abilities and knowledge. For example,
I have a patient that is diagnosed with alcohol alcoholism
use disorder PTSD and obsessive compulsive and related disorder hoarding.

(05:29):
I can understand how these three illnesses correlate with each other. However,
when I am with the patient practicing CBT or DBT,
what are those things? Cognitive behavioral therapy therapy or dialectic
behavioral therapy. And we've talked about CBT. Uh, some would
say a nauseum on this show, Uh, what about DBT?
What is DBT? DBT was actually created more for uh,

(05:53):
borderline personality disorders, Marshall Lenihan, I believe created that Have
you ever used it?

Speaker 2 (06:00):
I haven't. There was a therapist I worked without that
agency worked out together who was very into it working
with teens imposter care.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
But I never would that be for the PTSD and
or OCD.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
I do think the OCD, that that's what I was
going to. DEBT will help a lot with CD traits.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
So okay, yeah, I mean I've read a little bit
on DBT.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Like like riding the wave of anxiety and things like
that instead of resisting it, like it really feeds into
those types of things.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Gotcha. So I can understand how these three illnesses correlate
with each other. However, when I am with the patient
practicing CBT or DBT or trauma focused therapy, it seems
like she does not open up, she shuts me down
and can manipulate me with her cute old lady self.
This is followed with negative talk to myself and questioning
my confidence as a professional in the field. Any advice

(06:53):
or ideas how to help this patient in this particular
scenario would be just fabulous. I appreciate any inhuman ideas
you may have. I believe that I believe that says
in humane. Side note, I appreciate the many laughs and
giggles your program has to offer and the advice you've
given me in my previous questions. Keep up the good work, Whitney.
I'm a forever fan. Just kidding. Jacob is cool and

(07:16):
the other guy you pick which one? Sincerely, baby therapist
in Minnesota, Minnesota. Oh yeah, you bet you.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
We have that conversation.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
I think we got some feedback for you. Yeah. I
like to compare it to snowmobiling.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Oh I love text analogy.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
No, I just I just wanted to find a way
to work in. Speaking of Speaking of which, hang on rider,
just sit tight for a moment. Spam texts are getting crazy. Yeah, okay,
I've gotten to in the last two days. One of
them was just do you have the minutes to talk? Okay? Yeah,

(07:59):
And somehow they you was Gym's phone number for that?
I don't know. I just I reported it. I don't
know what the deal is. But no. The other one
that I got today, how about a fishing trip tomorrow?
The weather's perfect for it.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Okay. Do you see these reddity Yes? Yes, and then.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
You know it jokes on you a fishing.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Trip respond to them and then they'll say, oh, I'm
so sorry, wrong number, and then they're like but.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Then I wonder about the catches, because somehow that's going
to be and it might just be like a fishing
to try to see is this phone number active type thing?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
I follow? There's a page on Reddit. I look at
the people respond to those types of texts, and they
just troll the ship out of the right person. It
was fun, hilarious.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
I wish I had the time to do that. I
got one yesterday that was just are you working tonight?

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Oh wow?

Speaker 1 (08:52):
And the bad thing is I assumed that that was.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
That was me didn't respond.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
You have blocked and reported? All right?

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Back to the right, All right, patient, they see we
have alcoholism use disorder PTSD and OCD related for hoarding.
She's a little old lady, Is that what I'm yep?
I wonder how old they say old days. She's probably forty.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, she's six months younger than witness.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
How can that be I'm only twenty three.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
She shuts me down and can manipulate me with her
cute old lady's self.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
That part like this this woman, I'm going to just
assume that it is in fact an old lady. This
woman has been dealing with other people like yourself. Oh yeah,
for longer than you have been a practicing therapist. Yeah.
So the fact that this woman is just better at
this than you are, and is better at having this
conversation that she has had many times throughout her life

(09:50):
and you've never had before, not with her like she
knows what she's doing because she's done this already. Yep,
don't feel bad about that part. Yeah, I can say
to that, the you know, kind of doubting yourself thing,
I that doesn't necessarily go away. That is it probably
shouldn't be. It's I don't think it should. I mean,

(10:11):
if you think you're perfect, then something's probably wrong.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
There's way too many things to know. Quote unquote No,
as a clinician, it's just damn near impossible. You can't.
You got to pick your lane a little bit like
your realm. I would say, exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
And you know, I've been in working in the field
of substance use disorder treatment for twenty years now.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I know how can that be? You're only twenty five
so born into this.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Oh okay, okay, yeah, so, and and I'll tell you
like I feel like, and it's going to be sound
very arrogant.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
I feel like I'm very very good at what I do.
I would agree as a as a no fuck no
good if I was good at golf, you would I
That's all I talk about.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
I can't I can't imagine Nick like entering the zen
zone when he's with a client like this and just
Tony and like, I know exactly what to do with
your last right now, Like we're not.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
To like Jedi about like therapy.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Out of you, Like I don't know Jedi mind trick.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
This, yeah, but I mean, and it's just it's just
years of doing it, you just get and then and
every time you just learn something new. So I tried
to learn something new from every interaction I had with
a client. And you know, over you know, fifteen twenty
years of doing that, you just keep the good stuff
and get rid of the bad stuff, and you just

(11:38):
get better as you go. But I will tell you,
for as much confidence as I have in my skills
as a drug and alcohol counselor, even in the last
few years of doing it, when I was doing clinical work,
there was always going to a case that came up
that's like, oh shit, I don't know if I'm ready
for this.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Just kind of knocks you over a little yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
And it's usually these like crazy situations that happen where
you know, it's it's four am, we got this new intake.
They just came in and they're actively psychotic. What do
we do? Ye and yes, and it's like, okay, well,
I'm the clinical director. I got to make a call here,
I got to figure this out. Is this is this

(12:18):
mental health or is this bath salts? You know, what
is it exactly that's happening, you know. And so there's
situations like that where I feel like I feel like
in a situation. In that situation, are you also the
one who is kind of making the call on whether
to call nine one one sometimes okay or or yeah,
doing a you know, or contacting our psychiatrist to do

(12:42):
a legal hold or something like that, or referring them
out someplace. And then it's usually an argument because if
you're working for a for profit treatment center, you know,
and you're like, oh, we're not capable to deal with
this individual. We need to refer them out. And then
Upper Mansion is not like that because that's that's money
walk out the door. Ah. Yeah, So they're like, yeah,

(13:02):
we can handle that, we can You guys are good,
you can your skill, We're not whoa, you can't do this?
What is what is the objection that the upper management
has to calling the ambulance Cian leaves and you can't
bill for that day? That's it.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
So you've been paying people to meet with them to
maybe like Nick's now getting paid to be on this
call all that, but the person leaves and doesn't.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, you still have your you still have your expenses.
Your expenses for the day are always going to be right.
But now this person who maybe has good insurance is
now not at your facility.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
It may not come back after they may refirm somewhere else, and.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
You have to you have to remember too that with
some of these like for profit treatment centers where they're
billing private insurance, we're talking thousands of dollars a day, gotcha. Yeah,
so it's it's a big deal when they're not there.
So yeah, I mean that's a whole nother thing. But
but it's not like it's not the treatment center is
has like its own insurance or something that is paying

(13:59):
the hospital bill. Is that titling like that? Okay, they're
not losing money, they're not making money. It's just a
lack of income. Gotcha, Yeah, exactly, So you got all
the expenses in no income. Come again, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
I My go to was the biggest help when I
was a baby therapist or and even just starting out
after being licensed, is having people to staff clients with,
like either a supervisor or another colleague, like someone to
kind of call. I still do that, you know, if

(14:30):
I get stuck with a client, like, hey, we're kind
of spinning or spinning in circles or whatever, like I
feel like I'm not really helping them and starting to
let those thoughts creep in, like gosh, am I even
good at what I do? Or why am I stuck?
And having someone else's perspective can be really helpful. And
someone who maybe has more experience than you that can
be really helpful too. So that was one of the

(14:52):
things I was going to ask. And I'm sure you're
already doing this. If you're at an impatient facility, like
there's rounds or something. I don't know if you'll do
that at substance.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Not necessarily. I mean, it kind of depends on the
program itself. But you know, if it's a if it's
residential and the writer uses inpatient and there's actually a
difference between inpatient residence.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
We should talk about that.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, so like residential is clinically managed, whereas inpatient is
medically managed. And so if okay, if there's not a
medical team there, it's you know, residential. I've worked in
both and quit bragging.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Doctor Jacobs here.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
And so it's I've worked at both everything. But but
the residential programs, you know, you don't it seems like
there's a lot less of that because you don't have
the medical component like that, Like the medical component seems
to have a lot better grasp by think on like

(16:00):
supervision and case staff in case consultation and stuff like that.
Is that just because there's more laws basically surrounding the medication, kid,
My guess is I feel like it's more just training. Okay,
it's because like that's kind of part of that environment
that they were trained in that this is what you do, gotcha,
you know, and you kind of communicate and you've got

(16:21):
to share information and all that. And then whereas residential,
do they have more training than someone who might be
working kind of a similar position in residently, not necessarily more,
It's more about just a different mindset or a different philosophy.
There's a lot of stuff and this just drives me
up the wall. There's a lot of shit that we
do in drug and alcohol treatment that if you sit

(16:42):
and think about it, you're like, why in the fuck
do we do this? Because no other part of healthcare
operates the way that we do, right. And the reason
why is because we were never considered part of healthcare
because our origins weren't in hospitals. Sure are like our
industry started from the twelve step programs, church based exactly exactly,

(17:05):
and it grew from there. And then it wasn't until
we were well established and medicine was well established where
we figured out, oh, these two are medical thing. Yeah,
and then then it's like now we're trying to fit
this puzzle piece into this puzzle. And sometimes there's a
lot of If Nick sounds like he's making hand gestures
off mic, it's because he's making hand gestures off mic. Yeah,

(17:26):
And when I do that because the microphone. Yeah, it's
like the microphone is in his hand and for some
reason it doesn't go with him. You can, yeah, you
can hear it's probably fine.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Is really good microphones. I think they're going to pick
up all that.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
So here's the thing writer, I think for me, the
thing that I think is most helpful when it comes
to substance use. If you do nothing else, I feel
like you have to build rapport. And I say substance use,
but it's probably the same for mental health. Yeah, I
mean it's it's kind of it's very important for all
of it. But I think with substance use, it feels

(18:05):
like you kind of have a limited amount of time.
So you're working in a residential program. You know, it's
supposed to be based off of their progress, how long
they're in treatment, but in reality, you probably have a
time limit. Okay, excuse me. We're like this person's gonna
be here for could be twenty one days, twenty eight days, whatever.

(18:26):
So you're kind of operating off of that, and so
you kind of feel rushed and like, Okay, we go
to get stuff done and gotta get stuff done. I
would really focus on building rapport, and then once you've
built rapport, because I've I've worked with so many people
like this where they're so good and it's exactly what
Jacob said. It's like because they know how to play

(18:46):
the system, they've been through treatment, before they know it's
not their first time having this conversation. Yeah, they they
know like, Okay, well, i'm gonna I'm gonna get along
really well with my counselor I'm gonna I'm gonna know
what things to talk about. Like I've got a lot
of clients that kind of figured this out too, where
they come into my office and like, Okay, let's talk
about music for a little bit. Oh, how's your golf
game going? How is this? You know, because it's like

(19:08):
anything to not talk about what's happening with them, and
you just kind of be quick with it, and then
once you've established that rapport, then you can kind of
start confronting them a little bit more about that. That's
what I was And one thing that I always used
to do is I used to just bring it and
just say right off front, it's like, I feel like
you're talking about this, You're bringing this up because you
don't want to talk about what's happening.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yes, just pointing out starting to point out I say
the obvious, but what you see.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, And then it's very disarming to be on the
other end of that and know that like, oh I
just got called out and yeah, that's exactly what I
was doing.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, no, I agree. I was just going to mention
that's the last thing that came to mind too. If
she's not opening up or shuts you down and then
tries to manipulate, just pointing out, hey, it seems like
you aren't really comfortable talking about this, stay because then
they'll least be like, yeah, I'm not then you can say, oh,
why is it? Or if they say no, I'm not uncomfortable, okay,
well can I go back and ask you that? Like?

(20:04):
It kind of opens the door for either way.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, I think the worst thing that you could do. No,
I'm not gonna say that, because as soon as I
say that, then Jacob's gonna find out figure of something worse.
I had at least three things in my head already.
Go on, I was, I was all set for. However,
you into that sentence a not good thing that you
could do. By far, the worst thing you could possibly

(20:30):
do to a patient is go on, nick, Okay, I'll say.
The trap to not fall into is don't try to
out manipulate them. Yes, so you're not gonna don't try to.
They're trying to be sneaky and trying to control the conversation.
Don't try to be sneaky back and try to do
the same thing, because then it's just going to turn
into a pissing match and neither of you are going
to get it.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
And they can see that too, Oh for sure, see that.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
And you already know that they're good at that. Yeah,
they're clearly good at that. So don't do that. Do
your thing. Do the thing that you're good at, which
is being at their therapist and shining light on the situation,
not falling in and doing the routine that they want
to do. Yeah, and here's the thing I would that's
my advice. And then the other piece of this too.

(21:14):
Don't think too hard about this. Don't beat yourself up
over this or don't feel like you're you know.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Kind of failings right there.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, that you're not doing a good job. This is
all normal stuff. I mean, twenty years of doing this work,
I still have that. Yeah, And that doesn't go away.
You just learned to kind of cope with it, and
you just kind of realize that this is just the
nature of the game.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
It's the nature of the game. You'll have good days
and bad days. You'll start picking up on things easier
and quicker, and yeah, that's just part of the Journey's
it sucks in the beginning because of that. You're just like,
what the hell am I doing. I've done all the training,
I've had a little bit of practice, and then you're
kind of thrown out in the ocean. So please don't sink.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
But also remember that's that's everyone.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
That is every No one.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Comes out of training for any job. Nobody comes out
of training school anything for or any career, any path
and gets into it. And everybody, like everyone else is
not getting into their jobs straight out of college going like, oh,
I got this, Like they're all saying the same things
that you're saying about your job, just about their jobs. Yeah,
they just don't have as many horror or sweet little
ladies to deal with, and they're like construction management career exactly,

(22:20):
not none, but fewer. Know.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
I just saw this recently. I was talking about the
Paradoxical Way we Live life where it gave a lot
of examples, but this reminds me of it. Where they're
talking about like when you start working out, you feel
weak to get stronger, and like just the idea behind
that you have to be scared to be brave, Like
you have to go through these struggles in the beginning

(22:45):
to feel more confident later on.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
And this is Yeah, you're gonna get to the point
where like the next time this comes up, you're gonna
be like, oh, I've dealt with this before, and you're
gonna have a few more tricks in your bag of
tricks there to deal with. And then in ten years,
fifteen years, twenty years, like this is going to walk
in your door and you're not even gonna blink.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, I used to do that actually with all with
a lot of clients in residential treatment too, like because
they would they you got to realize that like when
people start using drugs and alcohol, their emotional maturity and
problem solving skills pretty much stop at that point. Yes,
so if they started using a fourteen years old y, Yes.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
It's real.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah. I always used to joke that, you know, yeah,
we worked that has not talked about much at all, No, Yeah,
I mean it's like I felt a lot of days
I felt like I was the superintendent of a junior
high school. Yes, yeah, because that's kind of what.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
I when people, especially if they're an art seasonship. But
their twenties. That's what they were doing in middle school.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, you're like and so I you know, I would
you know, oftentimes see like any little thing would set
them off, Like you know, we're out of corn flakes,
and it's like just this right end of the world,
and so, you know, I having a conversation with it
is a big fucking deal. Don't get don't just understand.
And if we run out of citning and toast crunch,
go fuck yourself.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
To the ground.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, but all the insurance company and tell him there's
got to be a fire. Honestly, in all seriousness, it
was coffee.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Coffee, you know, I'm not even about that.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, but anyway, like you know, having that conversation with
people about like you know, you know, you kind of
told me about your story and your challenges with drugs
and alcohol and like how bad it was. Like think
of where you were at the worst, you know, like
living behind a dumpster, like looking for food using dirty needles.
It's like, Okay, you lived through that, you survive that,

(24:42):
we can handle the corn flakes. Yeah, It's like it's
like once you've done that, it's like the rest of
the world like you've forgotten. Let's remind you, like the
rest of the world, like you can handle a lot
of shit, you know, so anyway, that's true, but one
shouldn't have to handle a lack of corn flakes.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I believe that's what Geneva decided. That's how we know
there's no God. That's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
That's a good question in Minnesota.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Good luck, stick with it and yeah, just just build
up that practice. And the more you the more you
work at it, the easier it's just gonna get like everything.
We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
we're gonna discuss my sister. We're listening to pod therapy,
Jacob's sister. Today's episode is brought to you by Robert
Brownie Junior, Men's Kalea Landsberry, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway,

(25:33):
Dan Martin, lib Hey Yo, Andrew Langmead, Chad mag Le Prince.
If you'd like to sponsor the show, become a therap
producer at patreon dot com slash therapy. All right, we
got some music trivia. Oh true from Emma. True, we
do one point to Jacob. Yes, from Emma, these are

(25:54):
mistaken lyrics. Okay, okay, uh, first one, I know Jacob's
gonna get so we're gonna of it to Whitney. Good.
Excuse me while I kissed this guy Jimmy Hendrix, what
is the correct lyrics? Correct lyric? Wait? I thought you're
going to read the end correct lyric? I did? You said?
Excuse me, well, I kissed this guy? Yeah? Correct, that's

(26:17):
the correct lyric from Jimmy hendricks Fabulously Gay Album. Yes, correct,
Jimmy hendricks Fabulously Gay Experience.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
I think I missed something here. I'm just gonna say
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Okay, I'll give you options. Is it supposed to be
kiss this guy? Which is what Jacob is h kiss
the sky, kiss goodbye, or kiss the night.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
I feel like the sky would be some shit I
would get wrong. So I think that one you are correct.
I have notorious for seeing the wrong lyrics and just
not giving.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Him was uh, oh ship, it was an Elton John song.
When I actually looked up the lyrics and I was like, oh, Ship,
that's what he is saying. There's there's a few Elton
John songs where the lyrics get into the weeds fast. Yes, yes,
I think Benny and the Jets might be one. Uh,

(27:19):
there are, there are a few of them where he
really gets Crocodile Rock was yeah or no. Saturday Saturday Night, Yeah, yep,
Saturday Night. I'm going to kiss this guy. Oh, Saturday night.
That's just a real lyrics, Okay, Jacob, This one I
did not know. Verily cease, not thine steadfast faith for

(27:44):
this merry dream be no jest? What creed? But you
just oh, if it was Creed, i'd know it. Kar
Te Uh, Verily cease, not thine steadfast faith for this

(28:05):
married dream be no jests?

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Definitely.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
I think it's from Prospero's final monologue in the Tempest,
Shakespeare's shortest play. In case it isn't, I'll give you out, okay, Uh,
Living on a Prayer bon Jovi. So this is we're
just naming the song. I don't know what the actual
lyric is. Oh, okay, is it in Living on a
Prayer bon Jovi, Don't Stop Believing, Journey Faith, George Michael

(28:33):
or hold On, Wilson Phillips, Man Lesson Phillips. I feel
like they illiterate. Yeah, very well, you just named four
songs that I would have thought if that line had
been in the idiot thim, I would know. I thought
I would know.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, I feel the same. Right now, I'm like, well, ship,
what say the line again?

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Verily cease not thine steadfast faith for this married dream
be no jest. Gotta have faith faith. Okay, so I
don't think it's faith.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Uh read the options again, Phillips, living.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
On a prayer, don't stop believing by journey or hold
on Wilson Phillips. It's gotta be Wilson Phillips. I'll say Wilson, No,
it is not. It's don't stop believing. Wow. All right,
so we're gonna have to listen to that.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
There's more than just the core apparently, all right, Whitney,
sweet dreams are made of cheese?

Speaker 1 (29:43):
What is the correct what is the correct lyric?

Speaker 2 (29:46):
That's what I think it is. But I could be wrong. Okay?
Do I have to guess? Or do you give me options?
I can give you options if you want to get
two points of I guess, right, Sure, sweet dreams are
made of these? Do it is that? All I'm guessing?

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Correct? Is this game?

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Also?

Speaker 1 (30:04):
I've just looked up the lyrics for don't stop. Believe
it again? Verily in this song at all? Where could
have been that was the wrong?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
The wrong?

Speaker 1 (30:15):
So is there anything that could have been mistaken? Oh?
Verily is the first word, right.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yes, just like Jacob gets the hard one.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Really it's yeah, it may have been in se.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
I'm just really good.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Let's see. Okay, Uh, Verily, cease not thine steadfast faith
for these merry dream being this merry dream be no jest.
I have no idea. I give you the next question. Okay,
you're naming the song and the band and lucky be Okay.

(30:54):
British rock band warns about a large metaphorical cataclysm, then
spends most of the song insisting they can't be stopped.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Oh h.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Want options like right, I'm gonna give you out. I
don't think is British? Go ahead. Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. Huh.
We will rock You by Queen uhuh. A large metaphorical cataclysm,
We will rock you. Another one bites the Dust by Queen,

(31:34):
or Don't stop Me Now by Queen. No listen to Queen,
you could do worse. What's the line again? There's no line?
The description of the song, Oh right, what's the description.
A British rock band warns about a large metaphorical cataclysm,

(31:55):
then spends the spends most of the song insisting they
can't be stopped. Don't stop me now, I guess no,
that's what I thought too. It's we will rock you.
It will be a big man some day, you got.
I guess it's I guess it's warning disgrace. Somebody better

(32:20):
put you back into your please.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Okay, Well there we go, all right, learn something new
every day.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
I got that point for the true answer at the beginning. Yeah,
you're terrible. Jesus, I forgot. I had to forget. Let's see,
doubting myself as a therapist. We've already done. Worried about
my sister, Hello, pop therapy crew. See it wasn't my sister.

(32:47):
You thought it was my sister, But it was the
writer's sister. A few months ago, I got a call
from my sister Ellen saying she really needed to talk
about something. She told me that a week prior, her
husband Henry a gun on himself in front of her
and threatened to take his own life. She was able
to calm him down and take the gun away from him,

(33:07):
and apparently they've talked it out, but apparently she still
had some concerns. Sorry, I was rereading something. I thought
I'd gotten something wrong, but I think good. Uh. She
blames herself and thinks it's because something is wrong with her.
I obviously was very worried and suggested that they both
get a therapist to help deal with this. It's been
a couple of months since she told me this, and
whenever I ask how they're doing, she's brushed it off

(33:30):
like it's nothing and says he's been focusing on work,
which is keeping him distracted, and she thinks it's helping him.
Apparently he saw a therapist, but it sounds like he
only saw them once. Since the incident, Ellen has not
seen the therapist to my knowledge. I should also mention
that a few years ago, at a college party, Henry
was accused of pinning a girl up against the wall
and choking her. Henry denies it, and Ellen says she

(33:52):
was in the bathroom at the time and didn't see anything,
but two other friends said that they witnessed it. The
girl press charges, but because his family has a lot
of money, Henry didn't serve any time and was to
pay out a settlement to drop the charges. Ellen lost
all of her friends from that party because she sided
with Henry Cool dang wow because of the choking are
Between the choking accusation and now this, I'm feeling very

(34:13):
concerned about my sister's safety. I can emphasize with people
or empathize with people with depression and that have suicidal thoughts,
but pulling out a gun in front of Ellen feels manipulative,
aggressive and abusive. I guess my question is I don't
know how to handle this. They live across the country
from me, so I can't really tell how things are

(34:33):
going except from a few phone calls. But I don't
trust Henry at this point, I have zero desire to
talk to this guy, but I also want to support
my sister. I'm worried that if she realizes or even
suspects that I don't like Henry, she may shut me out.
She has also asked that I not tell anyone about
the incident. Fortunately, for you, no one listens to this show.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
That's correct.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Well, then I want to respect her. We don't even
post these now. No.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
No.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
However, I am very concerned about Henry, and I don't
know if I should make someone who lives closer to
them aware of the situation, but I also don't want
to break her trust. Any advice as far as how
I can navigate this situation is very much appreciated. Thanks
Big Heavy One.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
I feel like I had a friend within the last
year they their sister was in a sent like. I
was reading this thinking, oh my gosh, this is almost identical.
Oh wow, some things are different later on, but that
I read, but I didn't think this was that common
for people to be holding gun sad.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
People need to get choked at a party anyway.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Thanks Jim for stating that. Gosh, my first thought reading this,
like my my instinctual therapy reaction is yikes, get away, yucky.
Is actually to really talk to your sister, I mean,

(36:12):
approach her in a way that shows concern and care
and question. I feel like questioning is super helpful in
these situations, like hey, how have you felt? Have you
felt in danger? Was that scary for you? Like getting
her to kind of come to some of these realizations
on her own, because I imagine she is pushing a

(36:33):
lot down and trying to make excuses or minimize his behaviors.
We do that as humans to survive sometimes and we
get very blinded by love and feelings we have, or
if you're in a situation where you feel stuck, like
maybe there's finance, I mean, it seems like he has money.

(36:54):
Maybe she feels like financially secure with him and is
overlooking these other really really uh yeah, keep behaviors because
of that. I'm not excusing that her choice is there,
but I just think that's how we are. How people How.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Much should we take the the party incident into kind
of consideration with it? How how how how much are
we are we thinking about both of these things together?
And how much are we thinking of them as two
things that are that are separate and maybe not related
I mean the same person obviously. Yeah, I mean, here's

(37:32):
my thought on that is. And I'm saying like, even
if we say that the party incident just happened, even
if we just take that as as fact as fact,
I'm not debating that part. I'm saying, like, how much
do we really want to talk about the two of
them as a unit? For me, you don't really even
need to. I think the second incident or the most
recent incident is serious and not pulling the gun out

(37:53):
is all I want to talk about Yeah, and I
think I think, you know, the the earlier the party
story maybe just adds a little bit of credibility to
the seriousness of the situation, kind of kind of fleshes
out the picture of who the person is for us
a little bit. Yeah. Maybe, well that's what I feel.
Maybe not completely fairly, but yeah, I feel.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Like it's worth considering. I mean, we're not going to
bring it up if if I'm the writer, I'm not
going to bring that up to my sister. But in
my mind, that's It's like when when we would work
with you know, juvenile sex Fenders were.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Asking would like I was like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
We manipulate that. Would I'd hold a gun to that head.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
We always try to have a Woodland section of the
show every week.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
I feel like that should be.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Anybody interest in this week I'm gonna do. I'm gonna
start a zoom show that's just going to be Whitland.
Would Nick.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
I feel like I should start with with Whitney and
it's going to be ship.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Oh yeah, Ship, that sounds. I want both of you
to start these shows and then we can bet on
who will cut themselves severely. The fastest, because I don't
even know which of you I would bet.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
I feel like you should place that bet and sold
the listeners.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah no, I think we could do this and this
could just be a fun game for the listeners who's
going to catastrophically injure themselves. We can have bets chance,
will someone lose a finger?

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Can it be sewn back on? That's all I need
to know.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Sorry, When you were working with kids.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yes, working with kids with sexual behavior problems. One of
the things we're asking in the assessment is like what
is your history? You know, did you like things on fire?
Did you hurt animals? Did you hurt humans like other humans?
So we're asking these questions. So to me, that comes
to play as a character kind of what Jacob said

(39:49):
as like a character support for.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
What brings a little more focus. Yeah, okay, it's like
what I've said multiple times on the show, is the
best predictor of future behaviors behavior before I did no, Yes,
about two seconds ago he said it, but it was
with example. He said it through a lot of metaphors.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So I feel like that is an
important part.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
So this, you know, as far as like how to
deal with this. This kind of reminds me of something
that that one good piece of advice that Jacob had
many years ago. All right, many years ago. Let's go
way back. We were talking. Do you remember, Jacob. We
were talking about uh wow, shut down whether or not,
Like I don't remember. It was a very similar situation.

(40:37):
Somebody was writing in and their best friend or something
was dating this abusive asshole. Okay, And so she was
just like, how hard do I want to confront this
behavior and all this? And the point that you brought
up is that you should be supportive. Oh yeah, If
you drive this person away, it just makes them less

(40:59):
likely to come back to you later, because then it's like, well,
now I have to admit that she was right, right, yeah,
And I don't want to have to go through that.
So I'm not going to reach out to her for saying, yeah,
you're not you're not in the area. You said you're
you said you're a you know, a long distance away.
Uh yeah, you're you're not there. What you can do
outside of supporting your sister is very limited. And I mean, honestly,

(41:27):
I don't know what to tell you other than you
gotta you gotta work on getting your mind wrapped around that,
because like you know, if you go to your sister
and say, this guy's an asshole, you got to leave him,
and you get on, if you get on the you
gotta leave him train, Yeah, then all that ever does
is drive the loved one away. That that never has
I've I've never seen in my experience, in my in

(41:50):
my own personal, anecdotal, meaningless experience, I have never seen
that work. Yeah, because usually it's not once you need
to leave this guy, what happened is they leave the person. Yeah,
the friend, the friendship and so the or the sister,
the sisterhood you know, is damaged, uh, sometimes critically, and

(42:10):
sometimes that's just the end of of that relationship. And
then you know what, what always happens later on as
you hear like, I mean, that's not fair. I was
gonna say, what happens later on as you hear the
horror story about what happens to the friend. Of course,
most of the time what happens later on is exactly nothing, right,
It's two people living, uh not not entirely happily, yep,

(42:31):
but not not the end of the world. Sometimes it's tragic, Yeah, yeah,
I think and writer here's how I would deal with
this situation, keeping in mind what Jacob is saying, and
you would have to be the judge on how far
you can actually go with this before you would lose
your sister. And you kind of you know your sister
better than we do. But here's what I would do.

(42:52):
Not Whitney. Whitney knows your sister very well. It's odd, yes,
kind of creepy. Yeah, kind of creepy because because she
doesn't know Whitney. No, that's what's creepy.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, that's true. But he doesn't take two people to
be in a friendship, Nick, okay, just one.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
She knows of Whitney, she's seen evidence of which here's
what I would do. She seed the peanut shells that
Whitney leaves outside of her bedroom window. Whitney needed a snack,
I would I would approach the sister and just say, hey, look,
with this recent situation, I'm really scared. That's it. I'm

(43:28):
really worried. Can we create some sort of safety plan? Yes,
the safety and it all goes through the lens of
I love you and I am just worried, and let's
let's let's just let's do some work. Uh, you know,
I'm not telling you what to do. And if I
felt like my sister was going to be resistant to
that in any way, what I would do is I

(43:49):
would even turn it back on me and just be like,
I know, I'm being ridiculous, this is just my anxiety.
So I would feel a lot better if we had
some sort of safety which, by the way, has the
benefit of also being true. Yes, yeah, like everything everything
in that statement is still true. You're not lying to
your sister. It's not boy, do I wish you'd leave?
It's yeah, I love you, I care about you, and

(44:10):
I don't want you to get hurt.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
And even like I live far away, and it would
just make me feel better if I knew there was
a plan in place next time. Maybe he was going
through a lot of emotional things, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, and maybe just you know, if there's something that
you can and I don't know what that safety plan
looks like. I mean, I'm just kind of.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
I would ask her like, yeah, what do you think
we should do? Like is there a friend you have
nearby you could call? Or can you leave the home
for a moment, like just step out in the front
yard to talk, like anything like that can be whatever
one thing.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
We did with a friend years ago, she was in
an abusive relationship and we did something along you know,
had these these types of conversations and made it very
clear to her that we were not fans of her husband,
but that we were fans of her, and that whatever

(45:01):
choices she made in this that was that's where our
support was going to be. But we bought her She
lived in a different state than where we lived at
the time, and we bought her a one way ticket
on Southwest from her house to or from from where
she lived to where we lived, and then, uh, we
continued to just reschedule that flight forward. So we basically

(45:25):
just had an active Southwest ticket that we then just
carried forward and eventually I think we just used it
for something else. We never, thankfully, we never had to
use it for any emergency situation. I think we just
used the mile points whatever, you know, we because Southwest.
We did Southwest because they're easy to reschedule and easy
to cancel and all that kind of stuff. But buy

(45:46):
a reschedulable, cancelable plane ticket, that's really cool. The fundable
you know, do it, and then you just keep on
moving it forward. Just stay ahead of it, set yourself
a reminder once a month or however often you need
to reschedule it and just bump it another four months
however however far into the future. It'll let you bump it. Yeah,
and then when you need it that day, you reschedule

(46:07):
it to that day. And there might be there might
be a difference in cost or whatever, depending on what
you pay for it up front. And that was for
you to have it, and then it's and it's ready
to go, and it's already in their name, okay, And
so all they need to get on the plane is
their identification and the and their phone, because the tickets

(46:27):
on their phone. And even if they don't have their phone,
they just need their identification. They can go to the
counter and you'll do it that way.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, I almost wonder if even the opposite would work too,
Like for yourself to go see, sure, that's a really
good case, because she seems very like resistant, like nothing's wrong,
and I'm gonna be cagy. I feel like even if
you had a ticket book, she may not man on it.
But if you're able to actually love that idea to
where it's like it's just sitting there waiting and if

(46:53):
she did a concerning text or like we've been arguing
a lot or whatever, even just going out to be
able to fly out for like, well, my thing's booked
for two weeks from now, I can see if I
can bump it up sooner. Yeah, it's kind of already there.
You can even change it too, sooner if you need to.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Because once you have the ticket, it's easy to change it.
Even if you have to pay extra.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
You're not as much usually now.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Like they make it so easy now because now you
can store a card in the in your account, on
the on the airline software and everything. So I mean
now you can really just have it all done, have
it all authorized and everything. You hit the button, it's
all set, Yeah, and then it's just get to the airport.
That is a great idea in the sense that like,
if she's in a situation where she just has like

(47:37):
a holy shit moment where she just got to get
out of there, she doesn't even need to even get
onto the plane. As long as she can get through
security at the airport, she's good. She's completely safe at
that point on. And then if you get to the
gate and decide not to go, great you decide not
to go. Yeah, and honestly, worst case scenario, you're out
whatever you paid for the ticket. Yeah, I mean that's

(47:57):
that's kind of the biggest bother and you can you
can do it. And we did it in a way
that that wasn't even a problem. I mean you have honestly,
you have to keep up with it. Yeah. Yeah, you
just have to remember that it's there and not let
it lapse or whatever.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
I think it's important to note as well, domestic violence
is such a challenging area to work in, Like I
hate to be doubIe Downer in this situation but before
but you know, I hate it, but I'll do it.
I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
We know you will. Waitney, I'll keep Gallant's laundry day.
That was yesterday.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
My laundry is all clean. I found this shirt and
got excited. And that's just my lime green trucker.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
If nothing else. You have to be in public between
your house. Are you giving me about coordinating outfits?

Speaker 2 (48:51):
All my good ship's packed? Does that count?

Speaker 1 (48:54):
And your eight carry ons?

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah right, my eight carry ons, my two check bags.
But the downer thing to say here is that it
is always up to that person whether or not they
are going to get help choose to leave any of that.
As far as being their support person, I think Whitnick
and Jacob have touched on so far has been very accurate.
You kind of have to fake it a little bit

(49:19):
to say, you know, I love you, I support you,
We're here for you whatever you want, but I am
worried and concerned. Yeah for me, Can you try a
safety plan? If that doesn't work, she's like me feel better,
m But if she's resistant to all of that, I
think just trying to stay in touch with her and
trying to be a listening ear is the best thing

(49:42):
you can do. And at the end of the day,
that's the like the saddest and scariest part about DV
is that you have no control and you can see
it so clearly. You're like, this is fucked up, this
is not okay, and they still choose to stay in it,
and you're like, why what's going on? You don't deserve that,
you know all the things that go through your mind,
But it is mind.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
It's so hard because you have to you have to
put yourself to try to understand it. You have to
put yourself in their shoes. You I mean, you have
to ignore the information you have because you're not in
in the room, you're not in the house, you're not
in the relationship, so you have different information than what
they have. Like it's it's so hard. The silver lining though, honestly,
right too, is I mean that the times that I've

(50:22):
dealt with this, uh, you know, sometimes it has devolved
into a real domestic violent situation. Uh several times, quite
a few times. You know, the the the person who
is the concern has gotten help and and and you'll
and and they come through the other side.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
And I have seen this too. I mean nobody talks
about that.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Yeah, I mean I have several friends, uhal several married
or in relationship friends that I am grateful today that
I didn't make any ease of their partners when their
partners were being assholes when they're when when they were
in maybe not situations quite this extreme, right, but but

(51:08):
pretty narrowly situations. Uh. I didn't go to those husband's
boyfriends whatever they were. Of course, it's always male. It's
never the other way around.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Oh no, that's not true.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
I had one that was the other way around. There's
one other factors in that one too. Though, uh but yeah,
it's a it's almost always the boyfriend or husband of course,
but uh but yeah, like they.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Get physical in one on one incident and you're like
part of you wants to go punch the ship out
of them, but it's like, I gotta just see if
they're willing to get help and they're willing to work
on it, then I gotta wait and see.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
I can think of one close friend, Uh it is
definitely a source still of tension between her husband and
you know, her her still current husband, and and me
because I made like he he was up. He was
very aware of exactly what I thought of him when

(52:04):
some some things that were not nearly this bad we're
going out in their relationship, but it was, you know,
it was not pleasant. It was it was some not
nice things and for a person that I'm very close
with and you know, and but they worked through it
and they and they got through it and they are
both very happy people now. And when but when we
are around each other, we always have that that moment

(52:25):
of like that eye contact check in of like I
know that I know that you haven't always been my
biggest fan.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Yeah I'm watching you.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yep, not even I'm watching you just like, Hey, we've
we've done this, We've gone around this, merry round. Yeah,
good to see you.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Bad things are spoken unspoken.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah, I don't know, writer, I think I would want, yeah,
some sort of a safety plan if it's my sister.
I want to ask questions. I want to know, like, hey,
do you do you happen to see any warning signs
anything that kind of that you notice about this person
leads up to violent behavior or manipulative behavior. Have you

(53:05):
noticed anything like that? And maybe if there's something that
you can kind of text me, you know, an emoji
or something that you and I were it's only something
that we know you can kind of tell me what's
going on, or that you're worried about something. Of course,
then on the other hand, is like what do you
do with that information? Like you have it, you're across
the country, you know.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
I was, That's actually a good point. I was just
wondering too, like asking her. I know this is a
little bit more of maybe therapy you speak, but asking
her how what point would be too far for you?
Like what kind of gauging?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Oh, like where when when would you get on a plane?

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Yeah, what would be happening to make you feel scared
enough to like have to maybe get space. You don't
even have to say leave them, Like I don't think
we bring up that, but just say that you think
you would need to like get out of that situation
for a temporary time. You know, it doesn't have to
be forever. But and see what she says. She might
just say, I don't know, but I would be curious

(54:03):
what But.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, I really can't stress enough. Like when you have
that conversation you want to be you want to have
that from the point of view of like, hey, when
if if Indo or win that ever were to happen,
I want you to know, like get to the airport
and come to my house. Yeah, like come, I will
take care of everything you get here. I mean, it's
got to be from that perspective.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Or you don't while you work it out.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Again, always, we're not we're not making any big decisions.
We're just we're just seeing a dangerous situation and getting
out of the dangerous situation and then we'll figure it
out down That's it. We'll figure it out from there.
But let's let's get to there.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Gosh, that is so tough watching loved ones go through that.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Yeah. Also, if you're not a Patreon and you wanted
to join and join the discord, I know there's probably
a lot of our listeners that maybe have had to
deal with that situation or similar situations that maybe can
jump in and offer their advice. I bet so. Good
luck writer. We're gonna take a quick break, and when

(55:07):
we come back, we're gonna discuss being conflicted about my father.
We're talking about pod therapy. We're getting all Jacob's family.
Today's episode is brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior,
Men's Kayla Lansberry, Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan
Martin Live, Hey, Yo, Andrew Langmead Chad Meg and Inca

(55:28):
le Prince. Would you like to sponsor the show? Become
a therapy ser ptreon dot com slash They all right, Whitney,
I'll give you the lyric. You gotta tell me song
and artist return me to the realm of Yon sweet Child,

(55:50):
where mirth doth blossom and roses bloom hauck you with
you know what, I think this isn't necessarily mistaken lyrics.
I think some of these are just lyrics. That they
changed jess Ai, it wasn't me. This is from Emma. Okay,

(56:13):
so I'll give you options.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Back to December by Taylor Swift Take Me Home Country Roads,
John Denver, Sweet Child, O Mine guns in Roses or
baby Mine by Bette Midler Baby.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Mine, My baby Mine. Oh thank you, that's the sweet child. Okay,
read the lyrics again.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
No return me to the realm of yon. Sweet child
where mirth doth blossom and roses bloom?

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Is that sweet child of mine?

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Yeah? It is you?

Speaker 3 (56:57):
Take again.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
You with hat?

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Oh, this is an interesting Okay, this is a misharducker
hat Whitney.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Is getting is here to say?

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Oh man, that would be a great T shirt.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
That would be maybe scoop fust I.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Sent you a T shirt designed the other day you did.
But just yeah, it was just a picture of a
croissant with the word croissant.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Jacob's very creative lately, all.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Right, Jacob, Oh, it said pot. There I got to
say pot therapy instead of That's right, it's just a
picture of said pot therapy.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
This is a good shirt idea.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
This is a good idea. It's a very inside joke idea,
but it's still a good shirt idea? Uh, mishard lyric,
So you gotta say what the actual lyric is? Okay,
dancing queen feel the beat from the Tangerine habit right,
So what is it supposed to be?

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (57:59):
I do.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
You know?

Speaker 1 (58:02):
It's tambourine from the tambourine It is? Okay, very good.
My wife was in an Abba show for about a
year and a half. I learned a lot of Abba
songs that time. All right, why uh to two musicians
document a list of word world events like a history lecture. Boom? Okay, Okay,

(58:30):
I don't remember what the second one is. Yeah, I
don't get the second one. I know this. I've heard
the second one. Yeah, no, there's two because somebody did it.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
They talk fast in the beginning of that song.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Yeah, it's the micro Machines guy. It's his single that
he did me all right here, I'm lying to you,
but the micro Machines guy doing a single. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
I don't know those words that you're saying.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
But we didn't start the fire, Billy Joel. Yes, American Pie,
you want to hear the rest of them? Okay, American Pie.
Don McLean. You said it was two songs from an
Italian restaurant, Billy Joel and the Times They Are Changing
Bob Dylan.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Oh wait, there's two of those.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Are the answer no, because there's only one answer given.
I know the answer, but it's not. It's not done.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Well, is it? We didn't start the fire?

Speaker 1 (59:20):
It is? It is, yes, congratulations last year or so?
Who redid it? Somebody redid that? Somebody redid we didn't
start the fire? Uh? And it was it was Fallout Boy, Oh,
fall up ball Out Boy in twenty twenty three, redid

(59:43):
we didn't start the fire?

Speaker 2 (59:44):
I'm also going to listen to that on my home.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
But it is all of the events that Billy Joel
saying about they changed out, all the all those events
now more like modern stuff. And yes, it's not, it's not.
It's terrible.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Loaded up on.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Nine eleven in there if you if you're wondering, did
they include eleven in the list of the events? The
answer is yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Yeah, the fire fall hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Okay, Jacob, here we go, last one. Here's the lyric.
I'll give you the lyric, the mistaken lyric. You got
to give me the song and the artist. Okay, thy
melody hath Bewitched mine Heart and entrenched mine very Soul,
Shakespeare meat loaf sounds meat loaf. No, I think this

(01:00:33):
is not the melody.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Soul.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
I'll give you an extra point for that. I don't
think this is a mistaken lyric. This is a rewritten lyric. Okay, Okay,
so can't help falling in love Elvis Presley, your song,
Elton John the Way You Look Tonight, Frank Sinatra, or
unchained Melody, The Righteous Brothers. It's got to be unchained melody.

(01:01:02):
It is not. I felt like I knew the lyrics
of that one. The least Yes Way to Go. Captain
Planet Arab Spring, La Riots, Rodney King, Deep Fakes, earthquakes, Iceland, Volcano,
Oklahoma City Bomb, Kurt Cobain, Pokemon, Tiger Woods, my Space,
Monsanto GMOs. That's the first verse. Oh wow, Harry Potter, Twilight,

(01:01:28):
Michael Jackson dies, nuclear accident, Fukushima, Japan, Crimean Peninsula, Cambridge, Analytica,
Kim jong Un, Robert Downey, Junior, iron Man. We didn't
start the fire. It was always burning since the world's
been turning. We did start fire because it's just a
pop culture reference.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
He's a guy more war.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
In Afghanistan, Cubs go all the way again, Obama, Spielberg, Explosion,
Lebanon Unibomber, Bobbitt John, I really like Bobbitt. Comma John
John Wayne John. Bobbitt is the guy that his wife
cut off his penis and threw it out the window
of a moving car. Oh shit, uh nineties news. Yeah,

(01:02:09):
I remember that Bobby Boston marathon balloon Boy wore on
tarra QAnon. That's the rounding out of that verse. So yeah,
the boy version of this song not great. Sounds like yeah, yeah,
there's a lot of fond memories, is what.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
I love thinking about.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Okay, So the whole time you were saying fallo up boy,
for whatever reason, I had in my head twenty one pilots.
To be fair, I've never seen those three bands in
the same room together. I don't have any cause to
say that they are not the same band. That's you.
Somebody should read the next question. That's the one we

(01:02:48):
just read. Let me just scroll on DOWNA conflicted about
my faga. Hello fools, please save this for an episode
when Whitney is present, if possible, as I really value her.
Oh shit, I'm just looking at the flock we are
out of time. We'll get back to it next week
when Whitney is gone. Obligatory context. I am a thirty

(01:03:10):
year old female. Pronouns are she and her? Thank you
very much. I have not spoken to my father in
almost twenty years. My parents divorced when I was in
elementary school after a long history of him cheating on
my mom and other transgressions that we do not have
time to get into. My dad filed for divorce and
drug out the process for years, causing mark distress for
my mom during that time. During the brief the two

(01:03:34):
brief years that he had visitation rights, he had a
living girlfriend and drank heavily, both explicitly against the court
mandated requirements for my visitation. My dad is a long
time alcoholic and known to have used other harder drugs
as well, and was even fired from a very cushy
job for partying on company dime and time, eventually leading

(01:03:55):
to an incident that prompted me and my sibling to
stop seeing him him and obtain a straining order. He
refused to pay child support until his checks were garnished,
and for a time even paid us paid for us
to have medical insurance per the court orders but never
sent the card so that we could not utilize these
songs like God, wow, is that that's a dick move?

(01:04:18):
Is it a dick move or is it a strung out,
clueless move. Did he not do it to be an
asshole or did not do it because he was strung
out or both?

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Doesn't get rid of And the one that you can't
even order a new one because it just go to
his address like.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
This caused us to go without necessary medical care for
most of my childhood. He certainly shows signs of narcissistic traits,
even admitting that he does not care about others other
than how they can benefit him. Eventually, when I was
in high school, he abruptly moved to another state to
avoid paying for my college expenses jokes on him, as
I was still a junior in high school. Turns out
he never learned my birthday, despite my mother correcting him

(01:04:59):
his court document numerous times officially corrected court documents even so,
that sucks. I don't mean to laugh at you, right,
I'm just laughing at the craziness of the Yeah. All
this to say, I know he's not a good person.
He hasn't attempted to make contact. Has an attempted to
contact me in all these years made our lives hell

(01:05:19):
on purpose and caused me to seek years of therapy
to undo the damage. It is known in my family
that he never cared about me from conception, and I
was mostly ignored and dismissed by him. Yet he is
half of my genetics and still my father. I go
through phases where I think of him often and wish
to contact him, and times where I hope he just

(01:05:41):
dies so I can stop having to wrestle with this.
I do not desire a relationship, nor do I expect
any change nor an apology. So do I listen to
this visceral yearning to just connect with my dad, even
though he's a piece of shit. I don't expect much,
but think I may. I don't expec much, but think

(01:06:01):
I may just have a natural desire to connect with
my dad because well, he's my dad. Frankly, I think
I need some advice on how to actually choose yes
or no, since I've spent ten plus years battling with
this choice of whether or not to even try to
contact him. If I choose to, how can I possibly
prepare to be rejected? Entirely and or disappointed if we

(01:06:21):
do speak, and if I choose not to, I know
he won't live forever, and I am afraid of regretting
it if I never try before he dies. I appreciate
and welcome any advice slash perspective slash jokes. Many thanks
in advance. Whitney's biggest fan. Please keep me anonymous. PS Jacob,
congrats on your doctorate. Thank you so much. It took

(01:06:44):
me an embarrassingly long time listening to this podcast to
learn that you are, in fact, not a real life coach. Pss.
I am a resident therapist, should be fully licensed next year. Congratulations,
and have often recommended deep dives or segments of apisodes
for clients. Keep doing what you're doing. That's the Anana mouse.

(01:07:04):
Oh thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
It's sweet. Thank you for writing in.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
And as far as me not being a real life
coach says.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Well, you can do it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
You don't need to be a coach. I dare you,
I dare you name a realer life coach than me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Your dad is so
fucking shitty. Like good grief.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Some people just shouldn't have children. Some people are just
not cut out to have children, and it sucks when
they It doesn't always suck, but it can really suck
when they do.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Yeah for real. So reading this, I feel like it
is natural to have that yearning. I think it comes
from us having that innate desire to like connect a parent.
Who should the shoulds? I hate the shoulds, but it's real,

(01:08:04):
who should have done this or should have done that?
They should have taken care of me. They should have
my best interest at heart. That's what a parent should, yes, exactly,
even the bare minimum, Like, that's what I think we
expect as children, even adult children, And so when they
don't do that, it like leaves a gap there that

(01:08:24):
you just don't know what to do with. Sometimes it
can not everyone has that yearning, but I think a
lot of people do still, even when they are abandoned
by a parent. And so when it comes to do
I reach out? I know, because here's what I hear.
You're like, well, I have low expectations, but I kind

(01:08:45):
of think they're not as low as you think. I
think maybe deep down you still are thinking maybe it's
been years and he's changed, or.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Like, you don't do this if you actually don't have
any expectations, right, yeah, because what would be the point? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Yeah? Like that was kind of my question that you
should ask yourself what is my purpose in reaching out
and what do I really expect? And so I think
you have to sit with that first. I would either
whether it's journaling, whether you have a really good friend
that you trust to talk to, or a sibling, maybe
a therapist, yes they would be great for that, but

(01:09:27):
something to kind of get it out. I just had
a client this past week who was like betrayed by
a roommate that moved out, and they were really upset
by it. And some time had passed, the person just
like kind of ghosted them and they were friends before
their roommates, And so she texts me and says, all right,

(01:09:47):
the person reached out, they want to come get their stuff,
And part of me wants to just make them interact
with me and sit down and talk through this. And
I was like, I responded, I said, what do you
think is actually gonna happen from that? They have been
so avoidant, I said, I don't really think you're gonna
get closure. I don't normally tell clients like what something

(01:10:07):
that direct?

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Yeah, we don't normally say it like I wouldn't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Yeah, I normally wouldn't, but I have a decent rapport
with this client. And I was like, girl, you want
but not what I would do. I know. Basically, I
was like, I don't think you're going to get what
you think you're going to get from that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
And she was like, truck Whitney is so wise.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Hat Whitney.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Just as a folksy wisdom about her. It spends a
lot of time doing a session in a rock and chair.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Come on down, honey, sit down.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
The pipe was a bit much.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Long, cigarette cigarette holder.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
No, I agree, though. It reminds me of this uh
good feedback that I heard a therapist say once, which
is the best predictor of future behavior's past behavior?

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
When did you hear that?

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Years ago? Interesting and years ago? But yeah, I think
there is kind of that idea of and I think
what I kind of understand what the writers talking about
in the sense like like when the writers saying I
don't have expectations, I think what they're kind of saying
without realizing is I don't have any expectations of really
great things happening, right, but they but the writer probably

(01:11:28):
has expectations of neutral things happening. You've pictured like a
conversation yes, being had. Yeah, And in reality it is
past behavior consistent with this neutral version of Yeah, we're
not gonna we're not gonna bond, we're not going to

(01:11:49):
have great conversation, but we're gonna have but we're gonna chat. Yeah. Yeah.
Is that going to happen or is it more likely
that you're going to scut a lunch and he doesn't
show up, or or that he shows up and he's drunk,
or he you know, says you know, I never loved
your mother or whatever. You know. I wouldn't say take

(01:12:12):
all of those reasons and not do it. Take all
of those reasons and manage those expectations accurately. I think
you need to have a realistic picture of what this
is going to look like before you make a decision,
you know, you know, doing not I don't know, not
making a decision based off of the best possible thing

(01:12:35):
this could be. But what's the most realistic thing? And
I mean, if the decision is I want, for my
own peace of mind, I want to try to have
this conversation before he dies. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Sounds like the writer kind of needs.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
And that's a perfectly reasonable need I think on your
part to have. And if you take a swing at
it and you miss, at least you know you took
that swing. Yeah. Or I don't even need him to reply,
or I don't need him to say anything. I just
need him to know these things. Yeah, yes, Okay, it
might find It might be you know a letter, Yeah,
and you know a letter asking you know where you where?

(01:13:14):
You tell him some things that you feel like you
need to tell him. I don't know if this guy
is much of a reader. Maybe not. I don't know. Uh, yeah,
I mean I would, I would think about it strongly first. Yeah,
really establish those those expectations and then consider how you're
going to reach out do all those things. But it
sounds I think Whitney's right. I think it sounds like you.

(01:13:37):
It sounds like you almost need this to to at least,
Isn't it sounds like you need to try.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Do you think you know if the writer let's just say,
and we don't know this for sure, but let's just
say that the writer has maybe some expectation or hope
that's something positive could happen. Would it be worth having
a conversation with dad to experience the opposite, you know,

(01:14:03):
as in like this could go bad, but at least
that way. Then now I know that like, okay, well
I tried it. I was wrong. I was hopeful that
this is going to be you know, pleasant or at
least uh neutral, right, and it wasn't. Is it worth
the experience? And maybe the writer has to kind of
ask that I don't know, and I'll tell you what
it just kind of rattled loose in my own brain

(01:14:25):
as I was talking a second ago to I would
write a couple of even if you're gonna have this
meeting in person and not email or letter or whatever
it is, I would write a couple of practice letters,
like sit down and just just to try to get
your own thoughts in order, because there's a lot going
on in your head, and so like what you're not
what you don't want to do is to have this

(01:14:47):
this meeting if you don't want to, you don't want
to have this sit down and then leave it and
have you in the car going like shit. I should
have said, like, like I have practiced that a little bit,
maybe even write down some bullet points that you're like,
these are the things that I really have to talk
about or hell, I mean write him a letter, or
you write a letter and read him a letter, do

(01:15:08):
any of these things. But do do all of this
stuff before reaching out. I would I would say, yeah,
I would almost like maybe this is just Nick's crazy brain.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
This is a great episode.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
But like, if I did that and I wrote this
letter to my estranged father, I kind of want to
write a letter back from his perspective interesting and then
but like, but I would write two of them back,
like I'm going to write back a letter which would
be my best hopes of a conversation, okay, And this

(01:15:47):
would be like I've been thinking about you a lot.
I feel terrible about what I've done. I always wish
I could have had a good relationship with you, absolute
best it could go, yeah, yeah, and then write a
second one with the absolute worst it could be, right,
you know, and just be like, which is going to

(01:16:09):
be a short hint that I don't want to have
any contact with you, and and just very upfront, just
you know, as make it heartbreak, yeah, and then to
just kind of put him away for a couple of
days and then pull them back out later and read
them and just kind of get a sense of like, Okay,
now I now I at least know where the goalposts are,
and I know what's in thee what's on the other end,

(01:16:32):
and then maybe I can make some kind of decision
or at least that way if if I, you know,
do choose to find him and meet with him, It's like, well,
I've already I've already prepared myself emotionally for the best
and the worst possible outcomes. So I feel like I'm
better capable of dealing probably going to be in the middle.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
Yeah, Yeah, do we agree that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
I Mean it sounds like I think we all agree that,
like if the writer feels like this is something that
that she needs to do, then go ahead and do
it type thing, but I think for it first. Yeah.
I mean I would again, like kind of going back
to the very first letter, I'd almost kind of do
the same thing with like a safety plan, you know,
just kind of have a plan of like, Okay, if
I'm going to do this, what are the things that

(01:17:15):
I'm going to do immediately after this? You know, who
do I have for support? That's I'm just going to
choose to like schedule something with my best friend. Hey,
let's just go hang out and they don't even need
to know why they're there. But I just want to
have somebody around me in case shit goes south. Then
I've got like some way that I can kind of
process this with another human. Hopefully you have a friend

(01:17:35):
that you can just call and say, like, Hey, I'm
going to have a bad day on Thursday. Maybe you
can just be at the house, yeah, while I'm having
a bad day.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Yeah, yeah, I don't the letter thing. I kind of
like that. It's an interesting concept. I think it could
be very helpful to kind of get used to the
negative feedback that might come. I guess I do agree
with Jacob that if you're happy, if you're having the

(01:18:03):
inkling of like I feel like I won't have closure
if I don't try. That is so important. I think
I just mentioned this in the last couple of weeks,
like having that experience with a family member where I
was like really bummed about the progression of our relationship
and just kind of being like, all right, I'm gonna
give it one more shot. This is it, and after that,
I'm only going off of what I want or don't

(01:18:25):
want to learn this relationship. But I got to give
them that chance for me, I feel like it and
it went surprisingly well for me, But that doesn't mean
that it will always go I was fully ready for
it to lead nowhere and just leave from talking with
them and be like, Okay, well now I know I
tried my best. That's all I know. It was my family. Yeah,

(01:18:51):
So I feel like that helps you have your own
sense of closure, like I tried my best and he
didn't try hardly anything. No, I won't say enough he doesn't.
But then you know, but that's all we're in control
of is our own action. So I really like the
idea of.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Like I did what I having that feeling of I
did what I could do, and then at the very
least for the rest of your life or your own
mental health, you get to say I tried, you know,
but make it you do. Have to make sure it's
a real try. Yeah, because you because you it's only
for you, so you know if it's a shitty try, Okay,
I'm gonna play Devil's advocate. I'm gonna go completely a

(01:19:29):
different direction r which is killing.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Have it killed?

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
Maybe not that far. I always have to remember who's
in the room with me when I have these conversations
the worst. Okay, here's what I'm gonna say. If you
choose not to have a conversation with this and let's
just play this out and he passes away and he
dies and you never have this conversation, you still didn't

(01:19:58):
do anything wrong. No, so remember that as well. I
don't want you to agree with Yeah. I don't want
you to feel like, oh fuck, the pressure's on me.
I have to do this. No, you you can. That
is an option you and if you parent, Yeah, if
you want to do that and you want to experience that,
and if that means something to you that you know,
like what Whitney said was like, well at least I

(01:20:19):
did this, Okay, then cool, then do that. But you
don't feel like you have to do that. You don't
have an obligation to do that. Exactly. Your parent had
an obligation to parent you. Yeah, when you were a
child and failed at that obligation. Yeah, your only doesn't
mean that you now have an obligation because your parent
failed at that obligation. Your only obligation is to live

(01:20:40):
the best life you can live. Yes, that's it, And.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Yeah, I you know it's funny. Remember this when you
mentioned the writing the kind letter like the best case scenario.
Part of me was like, if dad does die, I
actually don't hate the idea of writing the nice letter
to like just to be like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Yeah, just to get through the rest of your life.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Yeah, just to be like, Okay, maybe he would have
done all these really nice things and maybe this is
that like la la land CBT stuff where we just
like gaslight ourselves. But I don't care if that helps
me live at peace the rest of my life because
I'm like, you know what, my dad and I wished
he would have done better, and I'm going to move on.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
It's a silly thing to say. It's it's almost contrived,
but life is so fucking complicated and life is so
fucking hard, and I'm not making excuses for your dad.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
But I mean, he just wasn't.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
At the same time, there's stuff going on in his
life that for whatever reason, and it might just be
because he's an asshole, but for whatever reason, he didn't
get that job done. Yep, and uh that and that
just sucks. It's not fair to you, and it's not
fair to the people that that you interact with if
you're having kids, and not fair to your kids. It's
not it's just not fair, and it's it's it's so

(01:21:50):
it's so very shitty, and him not getting the job
done is not a reflection on you. No, and it
doesn't and it doesn't mean that you now have to
do something as a result of that. Yep, you have
zero obligation to do anything in this Now. It sounds
like not your circle. I said, it sounds like you
want to take a shot, though, and hopefully have some

(01:22:11):
kind of adult relationship with your father. And I don't
mean that in the joking case that I would normally
mean having an adult relationship with your father. And I
just wanted to shoot that down before Whitney made that
joke because I could see her.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Winding up to make it my truck.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
He was definitely going to talk a lot about the
adult relationship that you and your father are going to have.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
Yeah, down here, down here in the South. Okay, wait, sorry,
The last thing I was going to say is we've
talked about this recently in the discord I saw where
uh whatever, Yeah, the adult relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
Discord.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
But it's the oh my gosh, I totally lost my
train of thought thinking about Okay discord. Yes, where we
talked about like grieving certain relationships, and I want to
throw that out there for like the aftermath if you
choose to go meet with your dad if things do
not go well, even worse than you expected when you
expected the worst, because he doesn't he sounds like a

(01:23:14):
piece of work. So I'm just like, I don't know,
but let's say you choose to follow through with it.
I think the next step is working on sort of
just grieving the loss of having a parent that should
have been a better parent to you and just saying
that sucks for me, and grieving someone who's still alive
is really difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
And grieving that lost you know, the lost childhood opportunities, Yes,
because I mean there were things that were missed. Yeah,
there were things.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Because your dad was not able to do the job
that and.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
You can't get those back. And so I've been talking
like having a therapist to even just talk about that
kind of stuff. I'd like you to do that, that'd
be It seems like a nice thing to be able
to work with and work on and and hopefully get
some kind of closure and get passed a little bit
to some degree. Uh yeah, I'm sorry, writer, It sucks.

(01:24:06):
It's a bad situation and I'm sorry that you're having
to deal with it. Yep, thank you for running in
and give us an update if you choose to do that. Yes,
I'm really interested in a follow up, so let us know. Yep.
Speaking of follow ups, Yeah, we have a follow up email.
I'm just going to read to you really quickly directed.

(01:24:27):
It's a follow up directed to Jacob. Hello. Yeah, hey,
respectable pod therapy people and Jim. I want to send
a quick clarification to the trivia from episode three ninety seven,
Jacob claimed that flaps are were a control surface for airplanes. Ah, okay, okay,

(01:24:50):
so you kind of not fully declared shenanigans, but it
was continued under protest. Yeah, there was a call up,
but there was a protest call okay. So as an
aerospace in engineers, thank you. This is who I need
to hear from. Yes, that gets paid to fix airplanes. Yes,
I know this ship and the flaps are not used
as used to control the airplane. They are used during

(01:25:14):
the definition okay, I think the definition of control. So
there's more. They are used during takeoff and landing to
change the lift profile of the wings so that they
can generate more lift at lower speeds, thus reducing the
distance required to take off and land. And I would
say that I would call that a mode of control.

(01:25:37):
I know what flaps do, Okay, and that's what I
that's what I thought that would be considered a mode
of controls, So keep talking, high Land. Scoop continues. The
other things that are definitely for controlling the pitch, which
are the elevators, roll ailerons, and yaw rudder of the aircraft.

(01:25:59):
The flaps are too close to the fuselage and do
not operate fast enough to be effective control surfaces. Fair enough, Sorry, Jacob,
You're wrong this time. No, I think we just have
a I think we have a I think I think
what I am wrong, And I think what I am
wrong about is my understanding of the definition of the
word control in that question, Because yeah, the flaps don't

(01:26:22):
control the flight of the airplane, but they do control
an aspect of the airplane lift. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
accept that. That's fine. Thanks for all the great content,
Keep up the awesome work, lay In Scoop. Thank you,
Layd Scoop. Yes, uh from an actual aerospace engineer, so
that's awesome. Same, Yeah, this one's been pretty much right.

(01:26:49):
Oh all right, we're gonna tak it to the break
alonas forget about this break a break, and then we're
gonna come back and not take breaks anymore. Today's episode
is brought to you by Robert Brownie Junior, Men's Kala Lands,
Barry Kevin Chamberlain, Ben Stanley, Adam Hathaway, Dan Martin, lib Hey, Yo,
Andrew lang Mee, Chad Meg and Inca The Prince. If
you like to spoust the show, become a therapy sir

(01:27:09):
Patreon dot com slash Therapy. We'll save the trivia for
next time. Nice wrap up the show. We want to
remind you that if you sign up for Patreon dot
com slash Therapy, you can get the extended version of
the show an ad free and a day early, as
well as enjoy our live chat Discord community and our
weekly deep dived interviews steal Scare, Steel Shares Rant. And

(01:27:36):
we got some new some new supporters. We got a
new therapeaal A Donna.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
Savage Oo Savage.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
Welcome, and we've got a returning friend, a new therapod.
Oh how nice, Ellie, odare so good to hear from you,
kind of kind of heard from you. We heard your name.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
Nice to hear your name.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
Yeah, all right, and we'd like to thank our benev
the think, the benevolent Reverend, generous and fragrantly, fragrantly flagrantly.
You can tell who wrote this, Yeah, pro Therapy, Diehard
who love you, love us so much, fuck it dirty
and Picket Pickett and especially thank our balls is the

(01:28:22):
mysterious and shrouded Illuminati. Members of our fan love but
therap Producers, thank you. Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie, Junior, Mint,
Smitty Scoop, Richard Fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Leon Cassab
Caroline Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Sammy Scoop
Slipper Ka motherfucker, Ben Stanley slapping your face, Sarah Smith,
I think I know her, Adam Hathaway, Mike helm Oscar

(01:28:44):
Swan Wo Swan Rose, Paris, Paris, p A R. S
sure A sunny Bury A sunny Boy, Darren Cunningham, Lib
Sandra mcwoffle Team Monico, Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop, Heyo, Hannah,
Marie Andrew Lingmead Emma Tanka and Pony Soprano, uh Elena Cody,
The Dwriing Guy Brady and Malaychick Chick Fillatio, Gabriel Mcadamshawan Sutherland,

(01:29:09):
Max the Ginger Scoop, Chad mag Adam, warrenc Inca, Le Prince,
Sam Cone big A do Crimes And if you'd like
to hear this episode on cut In on Editude and
why wouldn't you and enjoy our spontaneous side project code
twitture on dot com slash therapy, and thank you for
supporting mental health. That's good musick. There we go, no problem.

(01:29:32):
That's all the time we have for this week session.
We want to like our landlord. That's Jay and the Rocks.
And thanks to those of you who contributed to our
show today, we really appreciate it. Remember our pod therapy
isn't something that you should keep all to yourself. Share
this episode with the world and tag us on the
socials when you do. It's at pod therapy guys on Instagram,
threads and Twitter, at slash pod therapy on Facebook, and

(01:29:54):
don't forget about all the extra goodies at patreon dot
com slash therapy. Do you want to submit a question
to the show. You can ask anonymously at podtherapy dot net,
email us at hoot therapy guys at gmail dot com,
or click the link in the episode description to be
taken to our anonymous Google form. I'm Nick Tangermin, I'm
James Jobin. Thanks so we'll see for her appointments next week. Hmm.

(01:30:18):
We did it, We did it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
We did a great job everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
Yeah, good show.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
I'm proud of y'all.

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