#401: Daddy's Girl Divorce, Teenage Depression, Laid Off Job Searching

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is what this way is called. Misery is starting
to make a lot of you.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Want to go see the holidays.

Speaker 3 (00:05):
I think you guys are kind of convincing me that
Las Vegas is the better choice. Like, fuck fall, fuck winter,
I'll just live here where there's dust and blue sky.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
For twelve months.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
I figured it out from.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Fabulous Las Vegasata not Missouri, not Missouri. This is for
so many reasons, misery therapy, real people a real problems
and real therapists, and you get to make your questions
anonymously at pods therapy dot net or email us at
pot therapy guys at gmail dot com. And now broadcasting
from the s J and the Ruckuskoy Pond Studio.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
That's Jim, that's Whitney.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
I'm Nick this time for spot therapyst Well friends. We
discussed a lot in also, we got through Jenny State.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Okay, I don't know, I just don't. I don't think
I can even think that through Why is fine?

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
I feel like you want me to know that there's
not any others or something, But there's no way that
can scan all fifty of them right now and figure
this out.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
California. I yeah, Les, whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
They're all ship patron dot com slash Therapy. You can
enjoy our pre show hangout and we cover a gamut
of things, including what a terrible spouse Whitney is, which
is just coming.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Out I think just a week after week.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well it's just reconfirmed.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yeah, And if you'd like to join the now being set, Peter,
I think you're right.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
You know what, Save Ferris can Peter. This is the
last thing you're doing with the part thereatment we're paying
for the divorce were good fucking lawyer. Listen, we're closing
the store. Okay before we do. Yeah, this is gonna

(01:53):
have a save Peter shirt. Jesus safety can get everybody
at Scoopfest and wearing save Peter shirts.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Don't nobody tell people?

Speaker 3 (02:01):
And then whenever he comes hobbling in on crutches and
everybody's got to say, oh my god, that's a great idea.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
This is a great idea. Do this, do this tonight.
I will what we need shirts.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
We need shirts patroon dot com slash Therapy also some announcements.
Don't forget to go to vote Jim dot net every day,
every device until I tell you to stop there and.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Very simple God damn it. No, when you go you
should click submit.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Also, getting to these final reminders that scoop Fest is
coming up, you can still show up. You can hang
out with all your favorite podcast buddies and meet our
community live in fabulous Las Vegas at the New Orleans goes.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
To Scoop Past. Oh is it just called the Orleans?
The regular Orleans, the old Orleans, old one?

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, the old they replaced it.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
That's right. I can't be going budget, that's right. This
conference is not you know we're on a budget, all right,
So uh, what is that?

Speaker 5 (03:17):
Hay Scoops or Scoopfest best dot Com? Hey scoops dot com.
I'll get you to the same place, Hey scoops dot com.
Right there, you can buy tickets.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
Hayscoops dot com, slash porn Hub and it will take
you straight to what you want to be at.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
It's gonna be a good time.

Speaker 4 (03:30):
We've got some great questions for today's show, and leading
off the order today, children wanting to spend time after
the breakup in the customary Happy Australian way.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Good day cunts.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
I've written in a couple of times before, and now
here I am again. My wife and I split up
about a year ago. We have two children, an eight
year old girl and a five year old boy. My
ex moved out and now lives about five minutes down
the road. We have equal shared custody of the kids
with a week on, week off deal. Since the X
and I have split, we've been getting on together better

(04:08):
than ever. Really, no fighting, no animosity. I couldn't have
asked for a better person to divorce. While my ex
and I don't go out together as friends or a
full family anymore, it is not rare that when doing
the kiddo handover, we won't hang out a bit together.
Sometimes when the kids have some event happening that both
my ex and I are present for, we'll all go

(04:30):
out and get dinner or whatever afterward. I'm just trying
to paint the picture that despite my ex and I
getting a divorce, the kids are still in an environment
where they do receive love and support from us and
don't have to watch their mom and dad fight and
disagree with each other. My daughter, however, has recently started
to get really upset on Saturday mornings before I take
her back to her mom's house, and then she doesn't

(04:53):
want me to leave either. Over the last month or two,
this has slowly gotten worse and more dramatic each time.
Night Saturday night, she expressed to her mom that she
wanted to spend more time with her dad. Obviously, I
have a few concerns about this. For starters, this must
have been heartbreaking for her mother to hear. It's unfair
on my ex because she would get to spend less

(05:15):
time with her daughter. I also don't want to break
up the siblings. This only happened last night. We haven't
yet had a chance to sit down and discuss this
at all together or make any changes to our current
system that we have.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
My ex did say.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
That although it is painful for her to do that,
as a mother, I should keep our daughter for longer.
Is this a slippery slope? My gut instinct tells me
to put my foot down and tell my daughter no
and keep it fifty to fifty. But it's also clear
that my daughter does want to spend more time with me.
I don't believe there is much of a difference in
parenting styles. It's not like when the kids are with me,

(05:50):
they're safe and loved, and my ex's house is dangerous
in any way. We both make the most of our
weekends with the kids, taking them out for fun activities.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Do you do not know about the toddlerdome that your
ex has? The fight club?

Speaker 4 (06:02):
But Jacob, we don't talk about Okay, okay, about that.
We both make good dinners during the week. I can't
think of any environmental differences that would cause this thinking.
Maybe it really is just a daddy's girl thing.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
I know you're going to suggest family counseling or taking
my daughter to a children's therapist. That is certainly something
we can do. Just reaching out to someone for some
extra thoughts or advice on what we can do is
I don't have anyone in my life that has had.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
To deal with the situation. Thanks goof scoop.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Were you all going to recommend there?

Speaker 1 (06:35):
At some point? I was going to recommend corporal punishment?

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Okay, okay, it's one option.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
We're going to keep the accusation. Yeah, we would that
we would recommend fact such a thing.

Speaker 5 (06:47):
Now we're not going to go to family there, that's right.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
I'm going on the other side of this issue. Therapies
for bitches, all right, just rub some turn on it.
It'll be fine where kids will be fine or they
won't save the money. Either way, My kids don't bother
either way. Scoopfest dot com. Thank you must that therapist money.
Don't give it to that stranger. They don't love you.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
So what do we think about this?

Speaker 3 (07:18):
First of all, what a great problem to have. I
I love the fact that mom and dad are working
together and co parent.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
I wish every divorce could be like this. Yeah. Oh
and goof scoop. I bet part of you.

Speaker 5 (07:33):
I bet it feels a little good to have the
little girl being like, I want to stay with you
and everything cool.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, that's okay.

Speaker 5 (07:39):
That's okay to be happy that your daughter once it's
been time with you too, flatter. Yeah, that's that's that's lovely.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 6 (07:45):
I when I was younger and going through my parents
divorce when I was four.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, and just over that time.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
They're wondering it was her fault.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, obviously it was.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Whitney's fault, which is why that bad girl tattoo on
her way. We've seen how she treats Peter. Yeah, I'd
leave to Jesus as she learned it. Something put her
up for adoption, I mean nature and nurture. At some
point we would just be happy, get rid of her.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
Don't cry speaking of the micry cry into the mic.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
But you were saying, okay.

Speaker 6 (08:30):
So when I was four, my parents divorced, but there
were ebbs and flows from age four to eighteen of
like we primarily my brother and I primarily lived with
my mom, and we'd see our dad every other weekend
and every Wednesday he would drive to come take us
to dinner because he lived about an hour away. So
it's like annoyingly far. We couldn't stay like five minutes

(08:54):
like goof scoop exactly right. So there there there were
differences there. I do think sometimes my parents did a
really good job of like I know they had issues
that they didn't show us, and sure so for a
young child, like you knew they didn't like just love
being around each other.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
But there was never like civil It was civil.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, friendly when they were handing guys off.

Speaker 6 (09:16):
So the thing I remember is like if I ever,
let's say, didn't want to go with my dad for
the weekend for whatever reason, I don't even fucking remember why,
I'd be like, I don't know, I just want to
like watch a TV show all weekend or something, play
with my friends all week and like it's not always
about like I like one parent more than another. Like
there's a million reasons it could be, especially at eight,

(09:38):
because for sure, under the age of twelve, they were
like issues like this, like oh I don't want to
go this weekend or whatever, I just didn't want to
drive that, or like kids are fickle. I don't know,
but I say that to say, like from my perspective,
I think talking to your daughter about this, like I
haven't heard you really share like how much you've kind

(09:59):
of gone to her. Not to make it like a
pressure situation. I wouldn't say, put on like maybe a
show she likes. If there's a video game. I love
this with kids, if there's a video game she likes playing,
or computer game, like kind of chat with her while
she's playing the game so that she's not like feeling
drilled or pressure. I feel like kids open up a

(10:19):
lot more when they're kind of doing it. And maybe
at eight, maybe that's like playing with Plato. I don't
freaking know, But whatever your daughter likes to do while
she's doing that kind of just bring up you know, Hey,
I noticed like Eve been wanting to spend more time
with me, Like, is there anything specific you're wanting to do?
Like what's going on there? Like just kind of a
curiosity because I don't know it could be anything. I

(10:40):
feel like we do a lot of assumptions with kids.
I've heard my in laws do this with my niece
and nephews, even down to like this really funny story
with my niece when she was very young and going
to bed. My brother in law was like chatting with
her and she's like, I'm perfect.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Oh, I'm perfect.

Speaker 6 (11:00):
And he's like, oh my god, this is like a
pressure parents his first child. So he's like, I don't
want her to like get a big head, but like whatever,
So he starts kind of like you yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah. Basically he's like, well, that's a lot of pressure.
Do you feel like you have to be?

Speaker 6 (11:14):
Like he's like kind of going into this and like
just talking through stuff, and then she goes, I'm the
perfect temperature.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Ah, because she's like three or whatever.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, I'm the perfect temperature.

Speaker 6 (11:24):
But she used that I'm perfect exactly. And so I
think we as adults are coming out these issues sometimes
with adult brain and like what is an eight year
old thinking in that.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
I don't know what are your thoughts on arbitrary keeping
it structured? And I don't want the word arbitrary to
sound dismissive it, but I think Goofscoop saying, there's a
part of his mind that thinks, you know, what, consistency matters.
Let's enforce the rules and let's let them get used
to it, and let's not accommodate you know, whatever flippancy

(11:58):
or whatever you know desires they have, because this very quick.
There's two different kids, and like this starts to throw
off rhythms versus, let's be flexible and accommodating to a
kid based on what they're going through and sort of
like maneuver and like kind of this is already a
big life change, Like we're getting along great. It's not
something we're gonna go to court over. Can we just

(12:18):
find it within us to be flexible when that's needed?
When she's thirteen, she might hate dad, she might want
to be around mom more, and maybe I need to
accommodate that. What are your thoughts based on your lived
experience of like, is it important to have structure?

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Is it important to be accommodating my.

Speaker 6 (12:31):
Personal opinion here. And I don't know that this is
the right one, but my personal opinion is sticking with
what the court says and the structure is that's like
a reaction because I never felt like, especially if you
really believe every each helm is safe, there's not like
a danger.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
There, right.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
That is?

Speaker 6 (12:51):
Yeah, sure, like that is your spouse's time or expouse's
time with their kiddo.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
And I don't know, I just think they're gonna be okay,
has something.

Speaker 5 (13:04):
To establishing because I mean there is gonna be there
are gonna be growing pains. Yeah, I mean, this is
this is a change. I agree with you by the
way I think, I think, I think the way it goes.
I mean my parents divorced when I was ten, was
it also?

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, especially has that very bad girl tattoo on her day.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
It was nine years old, my parents.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
She's ruining everybody's life, bad girl from Texas.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, Witneys trail destructions, Hurricane Whitney is fucking up everybody's.

Speaker 5 (13:37):
Family, wrecking homes from Texas.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
It's nineteen seventy two. That's why Winn was born in
nineteen seventy two. Save Peter dot com, Save Peter dot.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Com, the seventy.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
A Future, the way.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
But I believe I believe that you're right.

Speaker 5 (14:03):
I think because I mean when I was nine or ten,
Harve Old, I was when when my parents got divorced,
we had actually a very similar pick up drop off
schedule that you described. My parents lived a little closer,
but it was still in the age. I mean this
is the eighties. Yeah, eighties, maybe into the early nineties
where it's you know, it was like I lived with

(14:24):
one parent, my brother lived with the other parent, and
then we would be together during the weekends, spending every
other weekend at Atie's parents house.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Okay, that's really interesting.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, like my brother and they split us up and.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
She didn't get along.

Speaker 5 (14:39):
Yeah right, No, but we were six years we are
five or six years apart. Oh so I mean, yeah,
we when we were kids, we didn't have that much
to do with each other, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Like so, I but.

Speaker 5 (14:52):
The structure thing, I mean, if I had had the
option to make that call as a kid, and especially
as like a young pissed off teenager, right like, as
soon as you give that option, that option can be weaponized.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, good point.

Speaker 5 (15:08):
And I mean the kid is going to weaponize that
whether like right now, everything is happy, and it's just
like I want to spend more time at Dad's house,
right and like I'm having fun where I am right now,
so I want to.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Continue having fun. That's it, right, Yo? But how old?
How was the kid now?

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Eighty and eighty five? Yeah, little girls, the older one.
So I mean the eight year old doing that now
that that's great. When the eight year old is the
twelve year old, it's going to be different when they're
when they're fourteen or fifteen, it's going to be different.
That's a really good point.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
I would I would just say, establish the structure.

Speaker 6 (15:41):
Yeah, you got outlier, that's fine.

Speaker 5 (15:45):
I got to kind of follow the rules and figure
out when you can break the rules.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
First again, assuming safety is already off the test. Yeah,
I do think I like that because I do think
it's it's an important lesson to learn as a child.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
I was gonna say, you're saying up the structure for
the kid.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, you know, like there's gonna be a lot of
stuff that we don't want to do. Yeah that's like
you know, well, I know you enjoyed this, but you
know it's over now we have to go on, we
have to do with these other things, and at.

Speaker 5 (16:12):
Some point that becomes you know, having that structure becomes
a nice thing when the kid, you know, maybe they
have a phone, now, maybe they don't, whatever, but you know,
when they look at their calendar at some point and
like when their friend asks, do you want to do
something this weekend?

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Right, You're like, oh, I'm with my dad this weekend.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
But they know right once they at least like you're
you're solidifying that world for the kid.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
You're setting up that structure to give the kids security.
I mean that's a huge part of it.

Speaker 6 (16:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:42):
So I mean, yeah, I just go with it and
and just get the kid on board, be like this
is what we're doing. Yeah, you know, nobody's thrilled with this.
This is this is a compromise for all of us.
But at the same time, this is this is reality
right now, and so we're going to figure out how
to make this reality wonderful.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, leaning into structure. So, Nick, when Whitney ruined your.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Parents, Mary, Yeah, the work because of me.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
I was a sophomore in college was complicated, Like the
custody battle. Yeah, when I was in college was rough.
Where's and all this right? Because and state.

Speaker 6 (17:23):
Okay, that's interesting your parents You were an adult?

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, I was a sophomore college.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Is that weird a little bit?

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, yeah, I was like twenty four and oh really,
I had just had my first child, So that became
a whole other part.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
I thought, your parents, they're not together anymore, and like,
I just had the only grandchild in the family. So
like my whole life, we've always on holidays together. And
then my little sister, she was still in high school
when they split, and they're split up with such a mess.
They lived in Florida at the time that I took
custody of my little sister, and so she actually came
out moved into Las Vegas with me, and I put
her through the finish of high school and stuff. And

(18:01):
so I just adopted a seventeen year old and had
that whole thing.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
So it was also Whitney's fault.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
I mean, she's gone away.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
She was everywhere.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Man South doesn't matter, I know.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah. Times really.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
University, Yeah, not very demanding, you think, and also valedictorian.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, plenty of university is as demanding as you would sink. Exactly.
I just prayed a lot.

Speaker 7 (18:31):
No.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
But it's an interesting debate because like one of the
things so that the rider goof Scoops kids are eight
and five, My kids are fifteen and ten. And one
of the things that we've noticed raising our kids is
they go through and they've stopped doing this now, well
almost they've stopped.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
All their lives.

Speaker 4 (18:49):
They've gone through these phases and we've always jokingly called
it like it's a daddy phase or a mommy phase,
where for whatever reason, periodically one of them would hit
this era and they'd be like, Dad, I want to
be around Dad all the time. And it would be
like I'm going to the store, Oh I want to
come with you dad, you know, like and just I
couldn't like make them leave me alone.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Like every minute they're coming out to dad.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
You want to play video games and they just want
to cook together and just like always be around dad,
and like, oh, well, who wants to put me to sleep?

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Like every night it's like one of us put them
to sleep.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
And there were errors where it was always me, and
then there was errors when they don't want me fucking around.
It was like oh mommy, mommy, mommy. And so we
would joke like, oh, I guess they've naturally organically hit
this era where they want you around and it would
last for however long and then eventually they'd get back
to neutral and then eventually, you know, go the other way.

Speaker 5 (19:31):
Well, the mommy era has lasted about fifteen years so far. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
my day's coming now.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Any day I'm watching that down back, it's going to
come back to me. So, like, I want to affirm
some of what Goofscoop's talking about here because I think
that in my lived experience and what I've seen in
other families, I think that there is something organic about
this that doesn't have to be an indictment on mom
and doesn't necessarily have to be something that we look
at and say, oh my gosh, does this this has become.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
A forever thing.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
But I think that that kind of underscores what I
think all three of you are saying, which is like
why structure is pretty valuable, right because in a year
your kids might flip the other way. And it's an
interesting debate, right because like for us, you know, we
weren't divorced, so we would just accommodate the kids. It
was fine, you know, like they want me to put
them to sleep these nights, and like, great, I will,

(20:19):
but like if I can't for some reason because I'm
recording my stupid bodcaser the fuck.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Like, hey, yea, they.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Like they need to go to bed, right, and so
like they have to learn to do uncomfortable things that
are just part of the structure.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
It's not what they want.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
And I do think that if you accommodate kids too
much at this age, it the harms probably outweigh the benefits.
And I think whenever you're feeling really sensitive to your
kiddo and they love you, and the mom's like, look,
I feel weird prying her off of you. I'm feeling
a little rejected right now. I don't want to pull
this kid toward me against her will, so like please
take her.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
I see that sense.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
But like, at the same time, if it's possible, I
think I'm with you three that I like the structure
a little bit more accommodation.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Here's my thought, and I don't work with kids. My
background is a drug and alcohol. So unless your daughter
is drinking alcohol, which she.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Could be, could we know that eight years old? A
lot of us medication.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
But here's how I would approach this. If I was
going to have this talk with this eight year old,
I wouldn't talk about what.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Look here, you're an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
It talks to a lot of eight year olds.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Put the pipe down so I leave the school is
not as effective as you want them to be.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Instead of having this conversation about like, oh, let's see
what we can do or something like that, just just
acknowledge the fact that yes, it's time to go, and
not even talk about whether or not that's a movable object,
but just the time. Let's talk about the emotions about
how it feels that its time is over.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, that does suck.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
I'm going to miss you too while I have Yeah,
we're going to have a lot of things to look
forward to next time you come back. And not even
think or not even bring up the idea of trying
to negotiate time right, just kind of treat it almost
as if like this is written in stone.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
Because if they know the rules are negotiable, that becomes
a problem for the parenting. And this goes back to
something Jacob had said, which is that it's better to
just like, Nope, this is the structure and you're going
to have to mold to it. And I think the
line that Jacob had just about said was something like,
let's make it the rule, not the exception, right, so
like or let's let's occasionally have an exception where something's

(22:33):
going on and like Dad's going to take an extra
day with you or whatever to support you.

Speaker 5 (22:36):
But you got to not make that the rule. You
got to figure out the rules and you got to
follow the rules first. Let's build that for you can
break well.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
And honestly, there there is a dignity to discomfort. And
even though in a divorce there's this fear of like, oh, no,
were we damaging our kids? I want to make this
as gentle as possible, allowing our child to feel some
discomfort with the formula and then seeking comfort and solace
from mom, seeking comfort and solace from mom, coming to
mom and crying and saying I miss dad so much,
and letting mom go through the hard emotional labor of

(23:06):
being kind and generous and comforting to that child without
being defensive or wounded or hurt, and like letting that
child bring that energy to her and like it's gonna
be a shitty night for her. I don't envy the
mom it's a hard night whenever your kid's grabbing onto
you saying I missed the other one. I wish it
wasn't you I was hanging out with right now, I'm like, okay,
happy Father's Day to me.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
I guess you know.

Speaker 4 (23:25):
But like you've still got an important role to play
in that, and I think that's actually important for the
bonding too, and like that kid over time starting to
kind of like acclimatize to this new arrangement.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, they will adjust.

Speaker 6 (23:37):
Like even the times when I was like I don't
want to and was like really trying to dig my
heels in and I's like you're coming, and I was like, yeah,
you're going, and You're just like ah, and then it
was fine, right, like it feels like a big deal,
and then you're like, oh, okay, I guess I'm just
going and I go and do the things that I
do at Dad's house and like it's fine.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
I like the idea of firmness and like structure with
occasionalccommodation when it's necessary, trusting the judgment of the parents
to know when that is, but neither parent ignoring the
plight of the child, like doing the suck it up,
tough shit, I'm tired of your whining. Get in the
fucking car. That's not good, you know. But I like structure.

(24:15):
But that also is like sensitive to the child. It's
like whenever a kid doesn't want to go to school
and they're like, no, I don't want to go, I
have anxiety, and tell me here, It's it's like, look,
we're going because if I make this negotiable, it's going
to ruin your life, right, because then you're always going
to revert to this like bottom, like rung in the ladder.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
But I'm going to support you and coach you and counsel.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
You three in the morning. I know that.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Yeah, I'm going to be sensitive. I'm going to be
encouraging and yet firm. Right, So, no, we're not negotiating,
and yet I'm with you, I care about you. I'm
leaning in with this.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Ye some days do suck. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
Motivational interviewing is a really neat skill here, which is
a pretty advanced therapist skill. But if you can pull
up any books or any videos on motivational interviewing, there's
some really neat techniques that go into how to say
I care about you and acknowledge what somebody's going through
while not necessarily giving in and and creating a gap,
like keeping them in their program is important for their

(25:09):
overall health.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
So goofscoop.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
I'd recommend looking into that little bit more. I love
that you and the mom are collaborating. I love that
you're on the same page. I encourage you to like
check in on her too, And just like acknowledge, I
do not want you to feel like it's us against you.
I don't want you to feel like you're the bad
guy and you alone get to say yes or no
to this. And like I am willing to say no
to this if you know you don't want that blood

(25:32):
on your hands. You don't want to be the mean
mom who's said no to coming to dad. I will
be firm and say, Nope, that's not the agreement, honey,
that's not what we do. And just make it that simple.
Do not leave it to anybody's opinions. Do not describe
it to it's my preference or mommy's preference or this
is why sometimes with little kids, you don't want to
get into all the whys. You just say nope, we
just don't do that. That's just not what happens, just
not how it's going to work. Now, why do I

(25:53):
have to go to school?

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Because you have to because I'm bigger, That's exactly. It's funny.
I just remember my kids.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
With my son whenever he was really little, could get
him to obey rules by point because he couldn't read yet,
he was really little, and so we pointed the sign
and say, oh, that sign says you have to sit
down in your chair and eat with your forking knife
and not make a mess. And you go, oh, all right,
and so he like, sit down there, Well, that's what
the apple bee sign says, like I but my daughter
that didn't work when she was that age. We'd point
to the sign and say, oh, the sign says you
got to sit down and not make a mess and

(26:18):
eat all your dinner and she'd say, no, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
It says I get cake. You realized we're lying and
taught them to do it. Is just a Bay authority
without question.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
Yeah, it's really great. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Now they
haven't been deported yet if that's the metric relevance.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Thank you Scoop for writ and then yeah sorry thanks. Oh,
by the way, we had a soccer reference earlier we
met footy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think is that
what they call it?

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah? Is also rules football.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Play.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Didn't you play that, Whitney?

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, that's what I met.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
When Whitney wasn't wrecking homes, she was playing her sad.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Time.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
She's got a professional soccer player.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back,
we are.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Discussing teenage depression. You're listening to pod therapy. Today's episode
is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Leon Kasab, Darylyn Albert,
Sammy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Count, Darren Cuttingham, Cody Fandelori
and Guy Brady Malaysia and Max the Ginger Scoop. And
if you would like to sponsor to the show, become
a therapy ser Patreon dot com slash therapy. We got

(27:32):
some trivia sent in by Brady or I'm sorry Hunter, Hunter,
McCrae Hunter. These are I think a little bit easy,
even for this group of idiots.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, I'll show you.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Thank you, Nick Hard.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
I'm removing options. Oh, you will not get options if
you don't get these on the fly.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
You tried.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Sucks golf questions.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
I'm so smart.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Okay, okay, we're coming up with the these are voice actors.
I'll give you the character, you gotta give me the
voice actor.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Oh boy, this is hard.

Speaker 6 (28:17):
No, Jim's gonna ace this because he watches all the
Disney movies.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
I don't know the actor's name, Woody from Toy Story.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
Tom Hanks got it, Tom Hanks, the guy from Big.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
I knew Toy Story was going to be one of these.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Thing he does is hilarious. Uh, Jacob, that's me Darth Vader.
Oh fucked? Which one? The original? The voice?

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Original?

Speaker 3 (28:44):
The voice was the same for all of Yeah, right, yes,
but that's not how they originally recorded it. But he
wants James Earl Jones because the original one wasn't him
because they dubbed.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Over it, which was I don't remember what.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
The James are Jones is not in the Darth Vader suit.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
That plays it.

Speaker 5 (29:04):
So the actor that played it thought that he was
going to be the voice as well. So he's doing
like all of the original footage is all that guy's
voice just coming out of the helmet. Yeah, because also
it sounds like garbage because it sounds like the guy's
wearing a helmet plastic.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was David Prowse, that's it. Wow.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
And he was told when he was filming the movie
that he was going to be the voice. Yeah, he
didn't realize until he watched the movie that that wasn't.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
He realized in the theater he wasn't the voice.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
That's fucked.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, he got paid, don't worry about it, just fine.
I couldn't remember his name, Jimmy.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
He might have a point, Sonny the Robot from I
Robot Christ all mighty Sonny the Robot.

Speaker 5 (30:00):
Uh, I can I know who it is? And I
could picture of the actor and I can't think of
his name.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, oh my, he's he does a lot of voiceover,
and he's done a lot of live action.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
He's a lot of stuff. Is it Alan?

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Oh my god, pulled that one out.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
I don't know shot. I don't even know that name.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
I only know it because he plays hey Hey the
chicken in Mowana.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yeah, And I watched this like behind the scenes thing
where he's like making all the chicken sounds and then
he looks into the camera and he says, I went
to Juilliard, and then like they go actually Alan Tuda
because done like most of the voices and a lot
of your favorite movies. And then like they did this
montage and one of them was I Robot and I
was like, holy ship.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
This guy has done a lot of things. He was Pirate,
Steve and Dodge. Yeah, Pirates.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Okay, okay, that's him. Oh my gosh, I did not know.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
That watching really good movie that he's in Death at
a Funeral. Okay, but watch the British one, not because
the Americans then redid it years later. He was in
the British one the Americans watching too.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
It is both very He's also in Firefly that was.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
All right, Whitney okay, SpongeBob square Pants.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
He's also in Resident Alien. It's a new TV show
that I saw on netlik yea yeah, yeah, yeah, he's
an alien crash Lands and.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
I have no idea. I guess can I get options?

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, a question, SpongeBob, oh jesus as options? Yeah, nobody
knows that guy's name. Uh, Bill Fagerbike.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Roger bump Ass, Porn Hubs, Tom Kenny or mister Rance
fuck Tom Kenny, Jacob Dorry from Finding Nemo.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Oh, oh my god, this one.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Oh yeah, vision like you know, oh man, all right, Jim,
here we go, Mo the bartender kind.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Of funk on man. No, there's four voice actors in
the entire I don't know.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Any of that.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Just one of them, the same guy that did a poo.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
I don't know who the hell that is either, Jesus
Christ seven eleven guy. Yeah, No, I know who a Pools,
but I don't know who the actors are. I couldn't
tell you the actor does bart I wouldn't know any
of that. Yes, so give me options.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I guess the Hankas area Henry Shaer, Shaer, not that guy,
because you don't. Castinella Castella, Ntella Castell, and Tress McNeil.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Give me the first one he seemed won the best.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yes, all those people are people who who are like
that's the voice of Homer, of Lisa. Henry Shearer was
the principal principal Space Dan. That's Homer.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Okay, all right? Cool.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
So Jacob is in the lead because he did not
need options either. Time correct and Whitney and I did
one blind and one with options.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
We are tied.

Speaker 4 (33:37):
Teenage depression from Momnonymous. Hi everyone, first off, thank you
for this wonderful podcast.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Welcome.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Listening to you for.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
Years, I have learned, I have laughed, I have cried,
and I have cursed loudly at my phone. The natural
way you for banter and tease while also offering genuine
kindness and empathy renew my faith in humanity. You seem
like real humans, which in turn makes me feel like
it's okay to be a real human too.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
That we are definitely I too have heartbeat happy passed
to iTunes.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
Whitney ruined my family. My question for you all is
last year, my teenage son was a freshman and struggled
off and on with feeling depressed. When he was at
his worst, he cried often, felt overwhelmed by school slash
the pressures of growing up slash trying substances with his friends.

(34:37):
Then feeling deep remorse, he asked to see a counselor,
and I was so relieved that he was open to
getting professional support. Well, that window of motivation closed quickly
and he refused to go to the appointment. This pattern
happened a few times, feeling okay, then feeling stressed, asking
for counseling, then changing his mind everything is fine, I
don't need that that kind of thing. The last this

(35:00):
time we cycled through was a few weeks ago when
my son got a speeding ticket while driving without my permission.
He's a new driver and the first kid with a
license in his peer group, and his reaction was regret
mixed with fear mixed with desperation, historically a precursor to
his depressive episodes. He is now grounded from using his car,

(35:20):
and he again asked to see a counselor. I immediately
booked a session, hoping he would be able to work
on coping tools, practice resisting peer pressure, and address his
self esteem. That was only two weeks ago, and my
son is now telling me to cancel the appointment because
he quote doesn't have anything to say and you can't
make me go. How do I handle this? With counseling

(35:42):
witless being what they are in quality, pediatric therapist being
of limited supply in my area, I can't keep scheduling
and canceling. But I also wonder if mandating therapy for
my teen is going to have the opposite effect I
hope for and make him resent the experience. I know
that you all have mixed experiences with supporting loved ones

(36:03):
and getting help working with teens mandated therapy and substance use.
What do you suggest for my next move here? I
love my son with every ounce of my heart. He's
a sensitive, introverted, artistic soul, and I tell him I
love him every single day. Seeing him in pain is
beyond difficult, and I would do anything in my power

(36:23):
to help him in the ways he needs. But I'm
feeling stuck in deciding what that is. Continue to be
there for him by myself, praying he gets through this,
require him to attend therapy. I'm scared of psychotropic medications
for teenagers, but maybe you would recommend I consider that.
Is there a counseling esque app you recommend that he

(36:45):
can use when his motivation is up. I really appreciate
your insights and ideas. Thank you all for your support.
Signed mom mononymous Mononymous.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
I think the teens go to chat GP for there a.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Lot of them do these days.

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Yeah, it'll be fine, Dear Chad GVT. How do I
steal my mom's car? I'm feeling sad.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
First?

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Can we start first with scared of psychotropics because this is.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
In the news.

Speaker 5 (37:18):
Now, before you start with that, will you remind me
how old the kiddo is he was a freshman, so
he's mid high school driving sixteen, probably sophomokets high school.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, okay, great, because I don't know if you watched
any of the RFK.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
S hearing, I can't avoid it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
Now, mass shootings are the faults of S S R S. Yep,
that man is in charge of the health and Human service.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
Every time it's the it's the goddamn you know, we're
not going to accuse guns. We're not gonna politicize this
all the bullshit, but we're not gonna do anything else either.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
We're just gonna So if you're mentally ill and the
thinking of shooting people don't get on meds yo bad, then.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
You might do something crazy. I don't think they think
that through the way.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
Health issue. Then let's treat it like a fucking mental
health issue. Let's do something about it.

Speaker 6 (38:18):
That's true because they're trying to say it's mental health
with guns, but then they're like, don't treat the mental health.

Speaker 5 (38:23):
But let's deal with the mental health, and it's mental health,
not guns. And if we don't want to and we
don't want to get rid of guns, fine, yeah, then
let's then let's do what you say.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Let's let's treat like a mental health issue. So mononymous.

Speaker 5 (38:35):
Uh, this is just me talking, and for whatever it's worth,
you can tell that because you're listening, right.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
I don't think you need.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
To worry about the psychotropics for teens. They are I mean,
we've talked a lot about that on the show.

Speaker 5 (38:49):
There's the stuff that she's saying that that's that you
think might be bothering her.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
I think that what that she's saying. I think it's
probably just because it's been like in the news and
stuff a lot. Right, So our f K made some
comment about like, well, maybe these s s r ris
are causing kids to get violent and shoot up schools
or whatever, which is complete bullshit.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
There's absolutely zero. I'm just killing you up. Tell people sorry.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, it's like we're ah, I forgot people pretty good
at this.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
I thought I thought this microphone just goes.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
I'm not. So here's what we should So that's gonna
be rough.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
You know what.

Speaker 6 (39:43):
I think parents in general just really quick. They they worry,
which stratefully so you should be costumes.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
But like with I feel like.

Speaker 6 (39:53):
With medications, there's a lot of misinformation. I had a
client not long ago who is a very young adult
who was worried about getting addicted to an anti depressor.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
And I'm like, oh, that's like not that much fun. Yeah, yeah,
that much fun?

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Right, worst case scenario you do? So what.

Speaker 6 (40:16):
Not to say, like, oh, don't worry, mom, mononymous like that,
obviously you're gonna worry and should be cautious to do
research and all of those things and talk to the doctor.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
If you choose to explore that route. You can always
explore it too.

Speaker 6 (40:27):
I tell people that, like you can go in, you
can your son could meet with a doctor and get
a prescription whatever and you don't ever have to fill it,
or like yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
So there's here's the other thing too. It's like it's
a medication. Medications are going to have side effects. If
there's a medication that doesn't have side effects, then that
means it doesn't have effects.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Truth, ye drop drop your mic.

Speaker 5 (40:56):
No, there's not really such as a side effect when
it comes to medication.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
It's just things medication. It's an unintended effect.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
It's a fact that doesn't treat the condition.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
It's all it is, is an effect that your doctor
might not have told you about.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
It that it might be coming right.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
So I mean so I meds, psychotropic medications for teenagers
for the most part, are going to be very, very safe.
But I'm not saying they're not going to be without
side effects. But what you do is you work with
your prescriber to manage those side effects. And if that
means changing the dose, it may mean changing the medication
and trying something else.

Speaker 5 (41:33):
Which is why it's very important that you trust this provider.
The Bachelor writer, Yeah, if you want to have a
great relationship with that part, there's a good relationship that
you can possibly have.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
So I you know, of course, as Whitney said, you're
the mother, you're going to be concerned as much as
I possibly can. I would say that, yes, of course
you're going to be concerned, but you're going to be
okay and your son's going to be okay if it
comes down to a medication issue.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
Well, to normalize this a little bit, Momnonymous. The data
that we've seen, and this has been consistent now for
as long as I've been practicing, it's usually something like
eighteen percent of adolescents will experience major depressive episodes at
some point before eighteen years old. So, I mean we're
talking like one in five stars, right, So it's extremely.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Common, and I think that that. Actually I just texted
you guys about this a few months ago. You did. Yeah,
a friend of mine, her teenager, you know, very.

Speaker 5 (42:27):
Not completely similar episodes, but not completely dis similar episodes either. Able. Yeah,
absolutely relatable. It just and we talked about different books.
They were in a holy pattern waiting to get an
appointment right with a therapist and everything, and so we
reached out to the folks here to get something to
tide them over while they were waiting for their appointment.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Now, yeah, but no, this is exactly true.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
And I just want to validate some of what Momnonymous
is saying because I think these are really true. Things
Like one, we're talking one in five adolescents will experience
some symptoms of major depression at some point point in
their childhood, and so like there's something about that that's normalized.
Also what Mom says about like, hey, I'm nervous here
because like whenever I go to make appointments, he changes
his mind. Yeah, and this is something that we've all

(43:11):
seen a ton. I mean all three of us have
worked with youth. We've worked in substance abuse. We've seen
lots of people who reach these rock bottom moments that
they feel like I'm ready to make a change, I
can't do this anymore. I'm overwhelmed, and then they become
really willing to get help, right, And like we've talked
in the past about the stages of change, and so
they hit this place where they're like, they're contemplative, they're
aware there's a problem. They suddenly want action, they want

(43:34):
to do something. But then that wanes really quickly. And
what Mononymous is saying is like, oh shit, what's wrong
with my kid? And I want to validate that too.
Actually that that's really par for the course, and therapists
are extremely used to this, especially when we work with youth.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Yeah, there's a lot of youth who sign up on
day one and we're like, so why are you here?

Speaker 4 (43:54):
How's everything going? And they're so benign and they're like great,
how are you?

Speaker 3 (43:58):
And you're like, listen, kid, you know, I don't know
if you realize this, but I'm a therapist. People come
to me because they're not on a winning streak.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
What's going on?

Speaker 3 (44:06):
And the kids just like everything's great, everything's fine, and
like you have to almost pry the truth out. Came
to therapy because my life is so amazing.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
I needed it. I need to tell somebody about it.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
But then like you dig deeper and you find out that, like, oh,
there's been this pattern where like sometimes I get to
do that.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
It's like an art project, right, yeah, just.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
About how my dreams have already come true. That diagnosis
writes itself.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a page.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
That's fine.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
You can you can absolutely do that. Thank you should.
It's about time that you did. We've all been hoping
you would go do that. It's a way no.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
But like this is a real thing.

Speaker 4 (44:42):
And and so like working with kids, I think all
three of us can relate to that that we've had
those kids come in on day one. They seem that
the parents are trying to tell us about a systemic
or pattern problem and the kid is minimizing or dismissive
about that, and the parent is like pulling their hair
because they're like, no, tell the truth, God damn it.
Like now you're lying to this person. And I had
to drag you in here. You've wavered on this so
many different times, and momnonymous, I tell you that because

(45:05):
I want to again validate what you're observing. Your kid's
not weird. This is the normal experience. It's normal to
have depressive episodes. It's normal for them to waver, and
it's normal for them to say. Look, when I'm at
my rock bottoms and I'm deeply emotional, I don't know
what I'm supposed to do, and so I come to
you and I cry for help. But then I cope
and like, I regain my my homeostasis again, and then

(45:26):
I just want to go play Call of Duty with
my friends. And like, I don't want to go to
these doctor's appointments. I don't want to go do therapy.
And I honestly, very sincerely, I'm not in denial. I
sincerely don't know what I would say to Whitney right
now now. If you drug me into that therapy session,
I was hurting the other day, would have spilled my guts.
But today I'll be like, nah, I overreacting the other day.
Everything's fine.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
I have thoughts on this, I too. First off, I
thought you might Whitney's just just I'm gonna play the
doctor phil first second, Oh, here it comes, but who
raise them? No side note, I watched the Roku channel
because like the Weather channel that's in there, and they

(46:05):
have an entire channel in Roku dedicated to just doctor
Phil runs. And I see the commercials for this all
the time, and the quotes are so good.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Ye where he leans over, he goes, do we have
idiot written on a forehead?

Speaker 3 (46:18):
There's another one where he's talking about this guy who
believes he's really Batman.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
He's like, Batman's a cartoon character. He's not real. Like
the whole audience is clapping, and I'm like, this is
the dumb.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
While No No network wants to pick up my therapy,
but Storry runs.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
It's still making money. You got to blow Oprah. Right,
here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
There's a path, I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
There's a path.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
You get another family destroyed by Whitney.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
We can weaponize Whitney and make some money here, guys
say Peter Duck.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
So here's the thing, uh, momnonymous. He's he's learned that
he has the ability to cancel these appoints. That's true too,
and so this is going to get more difficult before
he gets easier. So here's my advice. Is the next
appointment that you schedule with him. You're going to explain
to him like, Okay, we're keeping this schedule or we're

(47:21):
keeping this uh disappointment. Okay, you're gonna you're gonna go
to this appointment. And then when he inevitably will get
to that point where he's like, I'm feeling better, I
don't need it, what you're going to say is great,
Let's go to this appointment and talk about maintenance. Let's
talk about how you maintain these good things that you're
doing so you don't fall back into the trap. Because

(47:41):
that's also what therapy does. It's not just about getting
out of the home, it's also about preventing falling into
the next hole.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (47:48):
Also, the doctor we're going to go see understands that
you have good days and bad days. Yeah, this is
this is not going to be new news to this
therapist when you go see them. When you go in
and say, I don't know why i'm here today, I
feel great.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yep. That doctor's going to have a response to that statement.
That won't be the first time that day that that
that's it. That's right.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
And Whitney, I'm really interested in your experience with this
because you know, we talked about mandated therapy, you know,
and Momnonymous is saying, like, I feel itchy about forcing this,
and you and I have both work of populations where yep,
there's no question marks. You do have to complete this,
but like being therapist in that modality, we also know
what to do with it. And Nick, I really like

(48:29):
your suggestion already that we don't have to always make
this a crisis response. We can say there's been enough
flare ups that we're gonna go ahead and establish a
relationship with a therapist, and hopefully that therapist runs their
practice in such a way like the way.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
I run mine is on demand.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
So like I'll I've done this when I used to
work with peeds, but like even with adults, like I'll
meet with somebody who says, look, I'm doing okay now,
but like I've had a pattern where things get shitty,
I'll go, great, Well, now I know your backstory. Now
we've met. Now we're on a first name basis. Next
time this happens, here's my link, here's my calendar. You
jump in there and make an appointment that same day
or the next day, and we'll pick up. Now we
can jump in when it happened yes, yeah, but you've

(49:06):
worked on the front lines of this population.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (49:09):
Yeah, working with teens, I think I've seen it all.
I've seen teens come in and they share what they
think is going wrong in their lives, which a lot
of times I'm like, oh, I see like way other
things going. Sure, I also think hearing your son say
I don't even have anything I talk about. I can't
tell you how many times a month I hear that.

(49:32):
Like a client comes in, they're like, man, I had
this scheduled. We have our weekly or bi weekly appointments scheduled,
it's on the calendar, and I was a little worried,
like I don't have anything to talk about in therapy today.
Nine point eight times out of ten we find some
shit to talk.

Speaker 4 (49:48):
Well, that's our job, exactly exactly train them to start
knowing what they should be looking for. So when they
come back, they're like, oh, yeah, you gave me homework.
It was to observe how often during the week I
feel discouraged or anxious or feeling dreadful about something. I
took notes, yeah, and uh, okay, wit, and here's what
I noticed.

Speaker 6 (50:05):
Yeah, I took notes or like, man, it was a
really good week, and that can be a good week,
but then we might talk about like, oh, it was
a great week, you know what, I had this weird
thing happen with my sister though, and that turns into
like talking about oh what we're child laying it. It's
like like it turns into a whole thing just by
being curious, and that's our job to do exactly. That's
a therapist job. So I think I really actually love

(50:26):
Nick's response for you, like when it comes to the kid,
like not allowing, not forcing him, but just saying like
we're keeping the appointment, and it sounds like you have
a good kid, even though he's going through some stuff
right now. And I think if you kind of just
are assertive about that, like, hey, we have the appointment.
I'm gonna keep the appointment. I can't cancel. Just say

(50:46):
that I can't cancel it.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
We've made the appointment. Let's just go.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
We're just gonna go. If you have nothing to talk about,
you don't have to. Let's just see what it's like.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
Well, changing the concept of therapy from being a crisis
management kind of way first for bonder kind of way,
to not being that. It's more like a chronic illness
kind of thing. Like if your kid keeps getting sore
throats and you're like, okay, well we make an appointment
because he's got like this ear infection, and like, you know,
we finally get an een T appointment, but then it
clears up on its own. You're like, well, should we

(51:14):
still go to the NT I get it, you would
cancel that, right, But if your kid keeps getting ear
infections they've had three in the last year, you do
keep that ent appointment, even though they might be completely
cleared when you get in, because you go, listen, Doc,
this keeps flaring up. We wanted to report this to
you and get some marching orders for how you want
us to handle this in the future, and we also
wanted to become an established patient with your office. That way,

(51:36):
next time we don't have to get on the waiting list.
We can get fast tracked in according to what we
need and that might be calling your office. And obviously
nts work very different than therapy in that sense, but it's.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
The same concept. We're establishing some care.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
I think that there's value to that, so you know,
I think that's that's the modality. I think that we're
both pushing is not making this a crisis response, not
making this a tit for tat, not saying this happen
and therefore we do this right now, or you asked
therefore we're going to react this way. It's more so
saying in the last couple of years, since you started
high school, you have been going through some pretty big

(52:11):
emotional and life change moments where you've kind of hit
a psychological wall, and I think that you've been able
to manage that you've gotten through that. I'm grateful for that.
And at the same time, you and I have considered
multiple times what it looks like to bring a therapist
into your life in case you need them. That's what
I want to do. I want you to be on

(52:32):
a first name basis with a therapist. Now this becomes
an interesting question, Momnonymous, because if you went like looking
at our two offices, how our two practices run. If
Momnonymous brought Jason, let's say the kid's name is Jason,
to your office if you were taking him as an
insurance client, would you be obligated to make this a

(52:52):
routine that we're going to be doing this week to
week or every other week, or could you establish care
and then say come in as needed and every time
you can come and we're gonna build insurance.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (53:02):
I haven't had any issues yet with clients who come
somewhat more irregularly. I don't have anyone that comes that sporadically.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
I realize what I'm saying. Who comes into I was like,
I'm surprised Jacob's not on that.

Speaker 6 (53:20):
I'll Yeah, they attend sessions more sporadically, but some of
that is that I don't know. I think if if
someone's paying out a pocket, they they might just come
where as needed. Yeah, they attend sessions today. How many times?

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Keep doing that? Twenty one times a month?

Speaker 6 (53:48):
That's but yeah, I think that getting them on a schedule,
and even if it's like, oh, you don't want attend
session every single week, fine, let's meet every three weeks,
let's meet once a month. Just I'm here, We're gonna
have the standing session. Even if you think you have

(54:08):
nothing to talk about, still come in.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
Yeah, I just want to take your emotional temperature check in.
I want to stay current with your life. And again,
that is the therapist's job to disarm the patient, put
them at ease, bond with them. Hopefully you pick a
good one and that's what we're.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Supposed to be doing.

Speaker 6 (54:23):
I wanted to throw out there too. I kind of
heard something in the question that is a little flag
for me. I see this a lot with parents. They
bring their teens in and they're like, I really want
them to go over a bunch of coping skills and
all this stuff to help them, like first session, and
I just want to kind of expectations that here a
little bit. My experience with teens is sure if they're

(54:46):
willing to attend session and go into all their stuff
for things that are bothering them or maybe my first
sessions with teens, I do meet with the parent and
them for some of that time. Then the parent goes
in the waiting room and I just meet with the
kid for some time to see what they say. So
the kid hears what the parent is saying, and so

(55:08):
the parent's gonna come in and say, oh, well, yeah,
they're having these breakdowns, they're having this, so the kid
knows I'm going to ask about that, right, yeah, But
I just want to expectations set and let you know
that very rarely am I just throwing a bunch of
coping skills out. Just like day one. It's a lot
of rapport building and information gathering and like getting the

(55:29):
kid to trust me and know this is like kind
of a chill space so they don't feel that pressure.
Teams are very sensitive to that pressure. I think, like
the spotlight on them.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yeah, and they don't want that. Yeah. No, I agree completely.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
I think all of us are in harmony saying we
don't want to see this yo yo thing continue. We
do want to see a follow through. There is a
way to do that. You are correct that if we
continue to do the okay, are you sure you need
this or you don't, that your child's gonna misunderstand what
therapy is and start to think of it as urgent
care or an er and that's really not what it is.

(56:03):
When when you keep having habitually these low moments, we
want to get involved in this child's life to become
preventative of the next one. That's what we're here to do.
And if you ever do hit rock bottom again, now
it's very easy to set up an appointment us and
you're not introducing yourself to Nick for the first time.
You're coming like, hey, Nick, you know we've met two
or three times. I ended up having a terrible week again.
I stole mom's car. I did this whole thing. Man,

(56:24):
I went on this near rampage, right, I broke up
like three families across the nation.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I started a podcast.

Speaker 4 (56:32):
It's like a cry for fucking help. But at that point,
Nick knows you, and like we've talked multiple times, I
know your baseline. So meeting people at their baseline is
actually really useful.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
And going back to what Whitney said too, it's like,
you know, when I've worked with kids, when I was
working with adolescents, the info I always wanted information like
and so the parents providing me information was amazing. But
I have to be strategic and when I use it,
I can't. So if I if you tell me some
valuable and I can't bring it up in the next session,

(57:03):
that doesn't mean it's not valuable, right, you know, Like
I have to know, like you know, just kind of
like a football coach, like I need to know, like
I've got this play. I can't just run this play
anytime I want, Like, I have to be strategic about
when this is.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
That's total football.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
You got total thrill, not to me, you see me, No,
But it's all poopy. Yeah, coming back to the psychotropic meds.
At the end of the day, we refer you to
the counselor, right, So, like we want a licensed professional
in your state to meet with your son and to
evaluate their needs based on that and to make recommendations.

(57:38):
That's what each of us does, and then they will
connect you to your physician and in your state follow
the prescriptions that are needed there. Don't jump ahead of
that and just go straight into a doctor's office and say, look,
if you read a doctor the same letter that you
just read to us, I think that they would also
be sort of like, I'm not sure what your child needs,
and they would probably say I'd really like them to

(58:00):
actually get to know a counselor and like let that
counselor make real recommendations based on true patterns. So I
would recommend starting there if you could just set up
that therapy appointment and say, look, this isn't about it
being responsive to a crisis. It's about there being a
pattern in your life, and I just want you to
have somebody throughout high school that if you ever.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Need them, you've met them. We're cool.

Speaker 4 (58:18):
And then working with that practice to say what are
your policies? How flexible can you be? I don't want
to create like an every week thing. I think that's
too much. If they're a pediatric specialist or they build
themselves as somebody who knows how to work with ADO lessons,
they're used to this, okay, So just shop around, ask questions.
A lot of practices are very accommodating. In worst case,
if you find a practice that doesn't take insurance, it

(58:38):
might still add up to the exact amount of money.
If your cope is twenty dollars a week or per session,
and you were to go back to back sessions for
two months, that's going to add up to the same
intermittent sessions that you're going to do for your kid,
just paying out of pocket, and that will be more
effective because it'll match what your kid wanted to do.
So like in the end of the day, the kind
of thing you're looking for, you pretty much can shop

(58:59):
any house you want because all the practices are gonna
able to accommodate you one way or the other.

Speaker 5 (59:03):
One last thing on the drugs, I mean, your kiddo
is a teenager, so I mean chimically, there are things
in your kid's brain that I don't fucking understand at all,
but I know shit's changing. Yeah, and like chimically, shit
is changing, right, So I mean, don't don't don't write
off the other chemicals. Don't don't write off the drugs
and everything. Uh, let's let the doctor have that full

(59:25):
toolbox to work with.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
Yeah, And you know, just a quick PSA for all listeners.
If you're out there and you have a teenager, and
you know they they admit crazy, if they admit or
they they have been caught using substances, it is very
tempting to believe them when they say this is the
first and only time.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
That is almost never true.

Speaker 5 (59:43):
Ah, that is never, That is never in the history
of not just teenagers, of anyone.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Yeah, saying that, yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Oh yeah, anytime somebody came in for their first defense,
d U I like, and it's like, this is the
first this is the first time I ever drank and
drow actually never had alcohol before. You know, it was
Rama Springer, and you know, I just decided to try
something new.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
Like my mom tells, this is a very low stakes thing.
But my mom claims that she has never smoked a
cigarette in her life. I don't believe that statement for
him a single second. Yeah, because I'm like, people don't
talk about that ship if they've actually never.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Done sound like smoked at that hasn't smoked. And Whitney
has never broken up a fan that night, not just
one man, she breaks them up by the dozen.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
But no writer And to anybody out there with kiddos,
I just bring it up because I think for a
lot of watro because that's old. She was what they
broke up, the first one.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
We want to be lulled back to sleep with the
belief that first tear drop tattoo she got Jesus Christ,
that was the first bad girl tat.

Speaker 6 (01:00:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Yeah, they just eat her sproto very bad girl girl.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
She's a helmet sticker for age for each of them.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Is the contract bonus on the sacks she gets.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
No, But you know, I just want to say that
for anybody out there with kiddos, it's one of those
things that we want to lull ourselves back to sleep
and believing that they are not experimenting, they're not.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Doing these things.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
And this is yet again another reason why I think
I really want to get them connected to that therapist,
because the therapist can come in with some rules and say, look,
there's some privacy rules here. You can confide to me
about some stuff, and like, that's part of what therapy
can be is the space for that kid to check
in and say, all right, look, you know I've tried this.
Can I get some feedback on that. So again, I
just see so many reasons why this is the right

(01:01:31):
move for you. I really hope it's something that you
can cruise toward. You can sell it to your child
the right way. This is not an event response. It's
more of a pattern response. It's establishing care with an
office so that if and when you need it in
the future, you have it. And how about we just
check them with that person quarterly or however often they
invite us to do that, And let's just make sure
that you're on a first name base with this person.
That way, if you ever shit, it's the fan again.

(01:01:53):
They know you, they know your backstory, they know you
know what your school schedules like, they know your friends are.
When you say, oh my god, this one friend broke
my heart, that's not the first time they heard that name.
They'll remember, Oh yeah, that guy that you grew up with,
that guy, Oh my God, this happened to tell me
more so like this is all I think that you
should be, you know, doing to bring this person into therapy.
But Momnonymous, hang in there, you know. Thank you for
writing the show. Thank you for the very kind words.

(01:02:14):
I look forward to reading them in your Apple iTunes
review five stars please, I expect to see that, or
in Spotify that'd be fine too, or in good, good
good pods. All of these links are available in the
episode description. Yes, copy and paste, that's right, put them
in all of them, and I don't forget to go
to vote Jim dot net and save Peter dot com.
We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
we're discussing being laid.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Off and looking for a new job. You're listening to
pod therapy. Today's episode is press you by. That's the
Schneier Leon because Carolyn Albert, Samy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Tarren Cunningham,
Tody the Diloran Guy, Brady Malaychuck and Max the Ginger Scoop.
And if you'd like to sponsor the show, become a theraproducer,
peatreon dot com slash sure. I'm imagining like it's the

(01:02:56):
Hurricane Katrina aid, and there's a Kanye West figure somewhere
that's just like Whitney hates Peters.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Mike Myers looks really confused.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
God damn all right, Whitney, here we go. Bart Simpson
from The Simpsons.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Get options. Nobody knows this. Oh I knew this one.
This is one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
We're not old, like you, bro, Like this is not
something we would know, Like, what's okay?

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Family guys, the same ones from the last one.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Pamela Hayden, Nancy Cartwright, Yardley Smith or Julie Kaefner. Julie, No, Nancy, correct, Yeah,
you idiot?

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Nancy? All right?

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Jacob don't have a camel man shorts grew from Despicable Me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Come on, did I ever see that? You don't the
Minions movies.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
Yeah, he's the Steve Carell yea cluy Correct, he's the
guy who's like the guy from the Office.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Yeah, very similar.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Princess Fiona from Shrek.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
That's Cameron Diaz. That is damn good movie.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Also Mike Myers. Also it is Mike Whitney. Another easy one,
the Joker from Batman, the animated series Jesus Christ the nineties.
One I don't know Batman the animated assuming I know
this because of Paul Mattingly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Oh my god, it's not who I thought. I'll bet
you even Paul would have to think about it, the joker.
I don't think you would. I think you know it instantly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Never. Yeah, okay, what are my options for the show?

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Wait? How is it? Who's turned? Is it it's Whitney?
How is it Whitney starting? Because he just went I
got Cameron Diaz from you had Grew? Yeah? Oh that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Okay, yeah, do you want this roused?

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
All right?

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
Here are your option Mark Hamill, Kevin Conroy, Peter Weller
or Christian Bale Jesus Christ.

Speaker 5 (01:05:08):
Whitney is currently looking at Nick expression Yeah, she's gonna
sunk up your family, Bron.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
When he's really acting weird. She's gonna say some weird ship,
but she says not true.

Speaker 5 (01:05:31):
Whitney is not going to text Laura tonight. She's gonna
wait for them to get married.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
And that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
I gotta break up marriage, marriage.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
Make up and break up relationship. She's got standards man documents,
love of the game. All right, Mark Hamill, Kevin Conroy,
Peter Weller or Christian Bale.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
I'm batman.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
You can eliminate one. It's not Christian Bale. I know
that it's Christian Bale. Mark Hamill, That's who I was
going to guess.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
It is not what Kevin Conroy.

Speaker 5 (01:06:17):
Shut the funk up. I'd like to guess on the rebound.
It's okay, Kevin Conroy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Now I'm really gonna but it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Is Mark Hamill. No, Mark Hamill does play joker. He does,
but apparently not in this. Your test is dumb. This
is I continue under.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
Take it up on Herbie taking up with.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
Thank you, I won't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Who got sucked out? Remember when you're trying to funk
up the next marriage? Jim was on your side. I remember,
remember that on your side? Juck Peter Elsa from Frozen Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Ship, Oh I know this one.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Yes, Elsa is famous.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Yes in the in the you do know it?

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Can I steal.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Eventually you can? Kevin Conroy. I'm not going to get it.
So you've got this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
Christian Bell, Mandy Moore, I'm Dina Manzell or Jody Benson,
Jesus who was the first one. Christian Bell, Kristen Chris
Kristen Bell, Kristen Bell.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
It's not a Dina Manzell. I'm Batman.

Speaker 5 (01:07:21):
It might be Christian Bale, Christian Bale, Christian Christian Bale.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
I know you're trying to should should be? Who should
have been? Let it go? Joe card I was born
in the darkness?

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
Hold okay, Kristen Bell, christ who are the others?

Speaker 5 (01:07:48):
Christen Bell made Moore? I don't think it's maybe more
it's not a Dina Manzel. Who was d Jody Benson?

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
I don't know who that is. I'll go Kristen Bell.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
No, don't please steal for half a point.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
I would like to say option see damn it?

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Yes, Dina Manzel. It's a famous.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Is she independently famous from this role Wicked? I don't
know that's where she got.

Speaker 4 (01:08:16):
I only know that the guy Sven is it spin
or spend the Reindeer? Is that Chris Christoph in Frozen
is the King in Hamilton? Christophe the boyfriend and Frozen
what Happened? He's the King in Hamilton the original cast.

Speaker 6 (01:08:34):
He's also mind Hunters. That show is so good if
you haven't sry.

Speaker 4 (01:08:39):
That's why he sings in the second Frozen because they
didn't know he could sing in the first.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Hamilton, they were like, the dint know because Adam was
a voice guy. They're like, oh ship, So they gave
him like a ballad to sing in the second.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
One, Optimist Prime from the Transformers animated series, and I
guess from the movies as well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
But do you know it? I just know it all
I know. Let him take it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Go Orson Wells, the the author of the Dystopian novels.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
The author, Yes, trying to say someone else.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
Carls Dickens.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
I'm thinking of Orson Scott card.

Speaker 5 (01:09:16):
It is not Orson Wells, right, Like I thought he's
like Citizen Kane and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:09:21):
Okay, yeah, I thought he was the voice in the
original one. No, that didn't That wasn't even listed as
an option. Give me the options, Corey Burton. He must
have been a different voice. Frank Welker, Chris Latta or
Peter Colin. Peter Colin, it is Peter.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
I don't, yes, based on what I know. I guess
based on Nick How do you just watch how he reads?

Speaker 4 (01:09:46):
Really it's a very obvious tell. You can just I
can guess based on him.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
No, it's pretty great because the other ones. He's like
laboring over and then he'll get to the right answer
and it just flows, like just it's lyrical in the
way he prints. They're like, yeah, that's the right answer.
So okay, yeah, laid off and looking Hello, friends and
Wells was in Transformers.

Speaker 5 (01:10:09):
He was a different thing. He was the bomb eating
villain Unicorn. Like okay, yeah, so he was the bad guy.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
Sounds like optimist prime. Yeah, I'll give you half a point.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Hello.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
I'm wondering if you guys had any advice for someone
that's been laid off and struggling to find another job.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Nope, take care.

Speaker 4 (01:10:33):
My position was a remote billing specialist for an accounting firm.
I applied to the position two years ago after I
went back to school and got a postgraduate accounting certificate.
I was notified that I was being going to be
laid off in May this year, but was able to
stay on until August to help train the new team
overseas that was going to replace me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
And my team.

Speaker 4 (01:10:53):
Not ideal, but company offered in very nice retention bonus
to stay on until August. I'm looking for jobs to
use my certificate that would also pay roughly the same
as I was as a billing specialist, but for the
past month, I haven't been getting much traction with any
of my applications, just a few phone interviews where they
said they filled the position I applied for and tried
to offer me a lesser paying job instead. Most companies

(01:11:16):
are asking for three to five years of experience with
a specific software the company works with, which I get.
But my experience doesn't scream accounting, just billing specialists and
other data entry work I've done in the past. I'm
wondering if you guys have any advice on how to
not feel as dejected as I'm feeling right now with
the job search. Me and my wife have enough savings

(01:11:37):
for three months as of now, but after one month
of searching, I'm becoming very worried. I'm working with recruiters
to find a job for me, but they either say
everything is slow at this point or I would need
to accept a lower paying entry level job to get
my foot in the door. Since most places are looking
for professional accounting experience. Me and my wife are already
on a tight budget as it is like most people

(01:11:58):
at thirty today, so take a pay cut would be
really hard. It's also disheartening when I see job reports
that more and more people are also being laid off
and there's not as many jobs being created. Any advice
would be appreciated. Matt in South Carolina.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
You ever been guy's ever been laid off or fired?

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:12:19):
I got fired from my waiter job whenever I had
first gotten married, and I was devastated.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
First job I ever lost, You'll remember this. This was
the adolescent treatment program.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Oh that one. That was the first job.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Oh yeah, I think you said. I thought you said impregnated. No, no, no,
well I did, but that's not Sorry Jesus, all things
are possible.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
What that was.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
The first job you'd ever lost?

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
That was a first job ever lost? I was probably
what twenty now he's probably thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
I remember the day you call because this was this
was the this was you were about to pawn your guitars.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
And I was like this, buddy, stop, this was the
one time in my life. This is the one time
in my life where roles were reversed. Twice, there's been three.
There's been three times in history that I've been to
the shoulder you cry out, and I've proudly served, and
you just do it like every week that was.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
That was the other fifty two weeks a year.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
That was probably one of the scariest times in my
life because I've never had anything. I've never had a
gap between jobs, right you always have always had the
next job lined up before I left the first one.
And I never took time off between jobs. If I
ended the job on Friday, I was starting the new
job on my.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Back, I'm like, take a week off.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
I've never done that. I don't know, I just it's
just my I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
I just feel like, yeah, it's just like, well, you
gotta be working, you got to be money.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
I'm like, yes, I'll have a week to go travel
or go do some ship.

Speaker 5 (01:13:58):
I finished my last full time before absent. I finished
it the day before I started absent.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
If I have to, I'll do it. But if I
don't have to, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:14:07):
So when that happens, it doesn't occur to me to
ask to be like, hey, can I just start like
three weeks later.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
No, really, I'm always like I'm traveling.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Weight when you were so entitled, I'll just call this
what it is. Guys, we none of us had a Peter.
Just help us hold some ends so that we could
just go get our fucking nails done.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
In between jobs and.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
Keep them around.

Speaker 7 (01:14:30):
I just really want to catch my breath, decorate a
little bit, dubs yeah, some painting, write some poetry.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
Dub by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, that was that was a scary moment,
and yes I was. I was talking about planning my guitar.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
He was like, he's like, you got credit cards.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
Well, And it was crazy because what happened to Nick too.
It was just being laid off. It was wage theft.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
Like they literally called him like the day that payroll
was due and said, we're not going to pay anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
We're going out of business. Good luck.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
They were like put a sign up in the door
saying we're closed. And I was like, uh, hey, we
work in healthcare. Yeah yeah, we have to like we
can't just we can't do that. We have to we
have to connect these people to other places to go, like.

Speaker 4 (01:15:22):
And then now they're all working for free, and then
they're literally you can just sell office supplies and keep
the money.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Yeah. Yeah. He was like what you thought about that?

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
Yeah yeah, yeah, just sell the office, sell the printer,
like creed in the office.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Like yeah, but it's really scary. Oh yeah, it was.

Speaker 4 (01:15:39):
Financial anxiety is awful, and like whenever you and I
got laid off from the rehab that we're working out,
which we is very much recorded in the history of
the show. You can go back at the end of
the first year of the show and you hear us,
you know, suddenly changing the quality of our microphones because
like we're recording on the floor of my house now
because we can't afford to go to a studio anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
And like that was.

Speaker 4 (01:15:58):
Really really scary, I think for both of us, because
very sudden, and like financial anxiety is as bad for me. Yeah,
because you did have another gig, pretty yeah, Like I
had a job before I got to my car, right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
But the other thing though, too, is like having gone
through it once before, right, and then knowing that, like
I had this other job, I was like, yeah, fuck,
I'll go.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
I don't care.

Speaker 4 (01:16:18):
Oh yeah, dude, h For me, it was devastating and
I've lost other jobs in history. But like I get
what the writer's talking about, Like it is such an
existential fear, especially if you've ever lived impoverished, like if
you've ever been touched by poverty, like it really is
traumatic and poverty. Yeah you might mist Dobblow. Yeah he's
a really nice guy. I thought you said impregnated Jim.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
Yeah yeah, yah, yeah, you know the clown.

Speaker 4 (01:16:42):
It it's terrifying, like it is a traumatic experience all
inside of itself. And so like you know, Matt, I
just I resonate with this because I know for me,
you know, if I'm out of work, like I am
panicking from day one, Like it doesn't matter how much
savings I have, I am absolutely hair on fire. And
the last time I lost a job in twenty eighteen,
I went through months of searching and applying to every place,

(01:17:03):
and it was really hard because, like I relate to
mad in this way because I had gotten to a
place where I was in a leadership role at a rehab.
There's not that many other programs in our city and state,
and all those programs have a leader, right, and so
like you can't call and ask if you could take
that person's job, So like you're waiting for one of
those places to have an op esque. Yeah, So I

(01:17:23):
certainly did. I certainly like put my name out into
all the places I could to like let people know
is available and some places were like having conversations with me,
but basically every place was saying, look, we can bring
you in as a regular therapist. We can bring you
in at.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
A lower level.

Speaker 4 (01:17:38):
But like that was really hard for me to consider
because at the time I was like, but I'm scared
that if I do that, if I go back down
the ladder, I'm delegitimizing myself so that I won't be
considered for future roles in leadership because it'll seem like
that must have been a fluke. Like I had that job,
it was fired from that job, and I went back
to what is correct for me, which is just the therapist.
So I feel for Matt that fears, like thinking, hey,

(01:18:00):
look I've I've earned at a certain level. That's what
my family's used to, that's what my bills look like.
I don't want to climb back down that ladder because
like I don't know that that's sustainable either. So like
I just I guess I'm relating to a lot of
what Matt's saying here. I know the way that I
solved this, Matt is like for me, I took a
kitchen sink approach in the beginning. First I tried to
apply for everything when I wasn't getting hits. After like

(01:18:21):
a month of that, I told his kitchen. I sold
my kitchen sink, I sold the guitars. But I took
an attitude of like, look, I am willing to do
all things that are ultimately for the purpose of survival.
So like I took a job as a part time
therapist on Hawthorne, Nevada, where I was like driving out
the room that on weekends, and I was like, I
was launching my private practice. Simultaneously, I was doing contract work.

(01:18:43):
I was taking like any side gigs I could, and
then I tried to start my own practice in the meantime,
and ultimately that started picking up and I got to
a place where I didn't have to accept job offers
that started rolling in later, and I actually turned down
some because I felt like it's time for me to
bet on myself and build my own program. But you
know know, like I guess, I take this opinion mat
of like taking anything and not letting those things define you.

(01:19:06):
Like if you have to take a lesser paying job,
keep the job search going, just do this also, and
then you could just not put it on your fucking
LinkedIn or not put it on your resume, Like there's
no way for them to like call the.

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
Irs be like who else gave this guy by me?
Like you could just not tell people.

Speaker 5 (01:19:19):
Also, there is there is something worth looking into with
these places that do want you to take a job
down the ranks a little bit, uh if if you can,
if you look into them through the recruiter or anything
like that and see how often they promote from within,
right then, but like there might be some cases.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
I'm just saying that it might actually be worth getting
that foot in the door.

Speaker 3 (01:19:38):
Right. The other thing, the other silver lining to that too,
is that they know that you may not stick around. Yeah,
you know, like if you were the director of a
program in this particular example, right, and then you got
hired as a therapist. If I'm the person hiring as
a therapist, I know for a few months. Yeah, he's
gonna be here for a few months till I find

(01:19:59):
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:00):
And that's the new problem a lot of people face,
which is like the overqualified problem. You're overqualified, and what
the code behind that is we don't think you'll stay.
We want to find a good candidate who this is
a great career for them, and like, you're you're qualified.
So if they're offering Matt these jobs, I think it's
great because like you could get your foot in the door.
I think you still furiously apply everywhere. This extends your Yeah,

(01:20:24):
it extends that three month savings. That's the way you
got to look at it. It just buys you two
more months on top of that to continue a good
quality search to really find something the perfect one.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:20:33):
And also it sounds like you might kind of need
for your resume a little more of that hands on experience.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
It does sound like they're not noticing it. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:20:42):
Yeah, if you're mostly doing just like bookkeeping and not
specifically like accounting or whatever it was, you're specifically trained,
and like then you might need to show little it
doesn't have.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
The correct accreditation or something.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
Yeah, that the experience looks like the lower level. And
so he's trying to appeal and say, no, I've I've
touched that higher level, and they're like, that's fine, but
that's recent and the bulk of your experience of the
lower level, So we want.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
You to do that.

Speaker 6 (01:21:09):
Yeah, they're looking for people with experience and yeah, a
specific type of software.

Speaker 5 (01:21:13):
We finding finding places that have growth potential. That's not nothing,
and that is long term planning.

Speaker 6 (01:21:20):
And I hate that I have to suggest this because
you're right writer like people.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
You know, Yeah, have you ever heard of this? Washing
up liquid?

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
I interest you? Do you be your own boss? Do
you have two friends? Those friends have two friends your boss.
It's kind of bet on yourself, Matt.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
You can run your own company.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
Can we start about.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
Therapy pyramids game where it's like it's just start your
own podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
I thought that's what saved Peter.

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
Was you save Peter will help you? Really? Never the epitome.

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
Yeah, wait, we're not that good. Yeah, it's simply not
that good. Yeah, when not that conceded to think that
we are right?

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Oh my gosh, I forgot what I was saying before them.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
But I like the idea that you Peter.

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
But no, there is something to be said that sometimes
you're at a company that elevates you a little bit,
like like at that company, I was elevated a little
bit further than I should have been. I suddenly had
a big title that was a little out of step
with reality, and so I wanted to leverage that title
to try to get into another role of equivalent level
and like I had to belly up that that wasn't normal,
Like I needed to go back down and kind of

(01:22:41):
get back into being a therapist again. And ultimately I
was able to do that in a sustainable way. But
don't be afraid to do that.

Speaker 6 (01:22:46):
Yeah, Okay, I remembered what I was saying, and it
kind of goes in hand with what Jim was saying
earlier with throwing his kitchen stink at things. So I
think that, like, even if if you start to worry
about finances, I like what you said, Jim, how taking
the lower paying job just extends the savings.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:23:02):
But also I think this is really common nowadays, and
I hate that it's common. But that is that you
might have to take on a little side hustle sure something.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
And I hate that that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
I know, I hate it. I fucking hate it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:15):
Like I was working for different therapy jobs.

Speaker 6 (01:23:19):
Yeah, even if it's not like I'm talking, even if
it's a fucking door dash, like I mean, whatever it
takes to get what you need that will better yourself
later on, Like you're getting that experience at a lower
paying job right now.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
Sounds like it will benefit you eventually. It's just gonna
be really hard.

Speaker 4 (01:23:35):
People are scared to do that because they think like
it stains their reputation or like it it causes them
to now not be that true professional.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
Obviously, I don't think that's it. You get to hide that.
I think they get I think they're afraid of getting
stuck in it. That's probably true too, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:23:48):
Because I know that's what I do when I when
I'm out looking for for gigs and everything, if I
see a lower thing that I can just get, Okay, ah,
I might get stuck there.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Okay, you get in there, and then that'd be it. Yeah,
you wouldn't be able to crawl back out of that,
that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:24:02):
But I feel like that there's truth to that in
some ways because like for you, it's it's all show business.
So if you take a role that's a lesser role,
there's almost no way to hide that you're doing that,
Like your your professional network is going to find out
because it's a small city and its show business and
you you part of taking a gig is to advertise
it to your network and bring in support. Whereas if
you're driving for door dash, nobody needs to know that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:23):
If youth is doing that, Yeah, yeah, it's gross.

Speaker 4 (01:24:28):
Ever since he took that burlesque gig, I feel like
he's just gonna stick with it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
If you want to do, that's fine.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
But with the donkey, yeah, yeah, it's legal.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
We cleared it with its fine. Fine.

Speaker 4 (01:24:45):
So I think we're all on the same page of
taking like an aggressive, do what it takes survival kind
of mode, and it's it's temporary, but like I also
just want and this is where I can easily get
really dystopian. But like the series I'm doing on AI,
a lot of the research I'm doing to is talking
about like a lot of these white colored jobs like
accounting and stuff like that they are getting a reduction

(01:25:06):
in force because this thing that thinks can kind of
do some of the auditing and maybe it isn't trusted
to do it all by itself, but it can facilitate
another professional doing twice as much. Yeah, right, And so
like putting some things on auto and then double checking
it afterward. So I think that we're seeing a lot
of industries that are going to be pairing back and
trimming in some ways. That's not a dire forecast, Matt,

(01:25:26):
You're going to find something, But I think it just
is me again, reassuring you or encouraging you be scrappy,
be hard to kill, like go find other things, like
get multiple sources of revenues, start an only fans, dance
with donkeys, do whatever it takes, and then don't advertise
that shit. It just extends your savings account so that
you can continue to shop for a really good job.

(01:25:48):
But look, if the market is telling you that your
resume is not going to achieve a certain director job
or a higher level leadership job, you also have to
trust the market sometimes and you might think, look, I
want my break. Somebody needs to pay me at this
level and give me this thing. And if like you've
tried enough times in the market showing you that that's
not what it is. Either, you need to re engineer

(01:26:08):
your resume to tell a different story that accentuates the
things you want people to understand about that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
I mean, there's no law. Oh shit, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
I see it on Reddit all the time, people say
they allowed you can lie.

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
On the internet.

Speaker 4 (01:26:22):
You can re engineer what you're saying about yourself. I
think that that's a real option. Don't be afraid to
pump the resume and to chet GPT, by the way,
and ask for tips to say, these are the jobs
I'm looking for, What keywords? What kinds of things should
I be saying on my resumes to achieve this? Like
and hopefully they were ai to work telling you all
that stuff too. Yeah, yeah, another this is a practical

(01:26:42):
tip that I'll give you. And maybe you've you know,
already knew this map. But like, one of the things
that I always tell my students is, if you're ready
to get into the job market, go create an account
on Indeed, and then you go up into your settings
and just by having a regular account, you can switch
into the employer site and it just allows you to
do that. It doesn't make you have a special account,
and you can switch into employer mode, and then you

(01:27:04):
can type in the job title that you want, and
now it's gonna let you see resumes of candidates who
want or have that job title.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
It will erase.

Speaker 4 (01:27:12):
Their name, but it will show you the resume, and
now you're looking directly at the competition the other resumes
that show up on the table whenever you're.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
Applying to a job.

Speaker 4 (01:27:22):
Now you can compare that and you could say, these
are the key words that I should use. This is
the kind of experience that the people have and this
helps you right size where you should be in your market.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
Yeah, it's a really good trick. But anyway, Matt, good luck.

Speaker 4 (01:27:33):
The robots are gonna kill us all, so enjoy what
little freedom we all have left until the terminators come
marching through.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
You still have two months left. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna
be fine. That were good until twenty twenty seven. Work
all you need. Yeah, go check it out.

Speaker 4 (01:27:49):
We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
we are wrapping up the show.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
You are listening to pod Therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:27:55):
Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Carolyn Albert,
Samus Scup, sarahs Man, Mike Holm, Darren Cunningham, Cody, That's
the Loring Guy, Brady Mala and Max the Ginger Scoop.
And if you would like to spit a question of the show, Nope,
if you would like to spass the show, well as
thinking I can just do this by memory and that

(01:28:17):
actually look at what I have to read every word
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Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
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Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
Show ad free a day early, as.

Speaker 4 (01:28:26):
Well as enjoy our live chat, discord community and our
spontaneous deep dives, interview, skill shares, research roundups, and rants
as this episode is being released. On Monday of this week,
I released my newest installment of my series on conscious AI,
and this one is all about replacement and all about
the ways that AI may replace entire sectors of the

(01:28:46):
economy and the goods and bads of that. What are
the psychological consequences of that happening to our population? So
it's very timely along with Matt's questions. So check it
out at patreon dot com slash therapy. It's a whole
series and when you go patreon dot com slash therapy,
there's a post at the very top that says start here.
It is an index of every piece of content we

(01:29:07):
have ever created, that our interns have ever created. It's
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It'll take you straight to the post and you can
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(01:29:30):
dives into research.

Speaker 1 (01:29:31):
It's really really cool.

Speaker 4 (01:29:32):
But speaking of our therapy party, Nick, who are the
newest members of the club.

Speaker 3 (01:29:36):
We got a new therapyal Welcome, Abigail Johnson Welcome, and
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Speaker 1 (01:29:44):
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(01:30:09):
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Speaker 3 (01:30:45):
If you'd like to do this episode uncut and unedited, it.

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There's another Patriots here where we have Whitney ruined your relationship.
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I want to thank our landlords, s J and the
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Speaker 1 (01:31:12):
We really appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:31:14):
Remember, pot therapy isn't something you should keep all to yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
Share the episode with the worlds on the socials.

Speaker 4 (01:31:19):
When you do, it's at about Therapy Guys on Instagram,
threads and Twitter. It's not pot Therapy on Facebook and
Blue Sky and don't forget but all the extra goodies
at patreon dot com slash therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:31:28):
If you want to spend a.

Speaker 3 (01:31:28):
Question of the show, you can ask anonymously therapy donuts,
email us at pot Therapy guys at gmail dot com,
or click the link in the episode description.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
You should definitely do that. We're running out of questions.
I'm an tangement, I'm Witn, I'm Jim.

Speaker 3 (01:31:41):
Thanks, and we'll see you for your appointment next week.

Speaker 1 (01:31:44):
Save Peter dot com. I hope it's available. You know,
we should go check that out. Usually that we're not
gonna buy it. We're not gonna buy it. One of
the listeners will job.

Speaker 6 (01:31:53):
No one needs to save Peter. Okay, yeah, just fine.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
Yeah. Was on his favorite radio station is playing. He's
got a bowl of dog food. That's right there. His
chain is long enough to reach it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:07):
It's what and he gets to live a long life
of religious fulfillments.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Free to live a life.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
He looks very happy on that collar.

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
Dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
Goodbye,

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