#403: Attracted to Mentors, Podcasting Post Charlie Kirk Assassination

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And I'm like, damn that Lee's really strong. But then
I'm like, what is she on? Like your knees are
on something, and I'm like, what the fuck is up
with this?

Speaker 2 (00:09):
It's like Popeye, Just Jacob, I don't know how much
you know about Fatanyl.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's not really a performance in announcer.

Speaker 4 (00:21):
I didn't say she was performing well from Fabulous Las
vegas Nea. This is pot Therapy, real people, real problems,
and real therapists. You can submit your questions anonymously at
pot therapy net or email us at pot therapy guys
at gmail dot com. And now broadcasting from the SJ
and the Ruckus Coy Pond Studios. That's Jim, That's Whitney.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm Nick. It's time for so On Therapy.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome everybody to the episode that is airing the week
of Scoop Fast Best Episode. We are so excited And
for those of you who aren't gonna make it this year,
I just want you to know the things that are happening.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
So I'm really excited. I was looking at a costume.
Do you really for ball? Yeah? So I'm taking and
I'll tell you it was not my idea. Did this
is Laura's idea. No fans even worse. Oh no, no,
who's worse than Laura? Smitty? No, no, that is a
that is a good answer. Don't tell me anything more, Smitty. Yeah,

(01:18):
it's gonna be great.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
So at the last so I feel like I want
to educate the wider audience because it's so much fun.
The very end of scoop Fest is the jock versus
nerd prom right calling her ball ball And so it's
a costume contest slash just fun, live party, live Bandshe
are they.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Playing the show?

Speaker 5 (01:40):
Oh, it's so much fun. So they're great. The U
and the Ruckets are playing this year.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:46):
They turned down another gig that was a higher paying
gig to play Scoop Fast and I said, I was like, no, no, no,
you'all take y'all take the gig. You'll take the gig
that has the money. Yeah, bands in town. We will
find it because it's you know several months ago this week. Right,
I was like, yea, we will find another band. Not

(02:06):
a big deal. I just leave it up to the guys.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Okay, the band. Let the band vote on it. Where
do they want to play?

Speaker 5 (02:12):
They were like, she was like, oh, the band just
wants to come play scoop Festa.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
The band pop Fest. Oh yeah, yeah we're playing.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
And zero percent shocked by that because Scoopfest is so
much fucking fun and like just like they get worshiped
and just treated like a great time.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
That is so much fun.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
So the end of scoop Fest is this costume contest
that we call the Jock Versus Nerd Ball, and everybody
stresses up. We have people that dress up. Most of
the ninety nine percent of the themes are related to
ice cream Social, as it should be at your party,
but every year there are several that are related to
pod therapy in some way. Last year we had Whitney's Ducks.

Speaker 6 (02:53):
Sell it.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Sammy Scoop showed up as Whitney's Ducks. So it's really
really cute. So there's always a few little references to
pot therapy. Therapy is part of the ice cream Social Like,
we're in.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
The same universe. You, we're in the same universe. Consider
us in the same universe.

Speaker 5 (03:06):
Yeah that I feel like showing up in a in
a universe costume is perfect countable.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
So another thing was two years ago was Jim's Batman.
Remember that Jim's Batman Amazing, which it's one of my
regular work shirts. Stuff that's good. That's your sweating shirt.

Speaker 5 (03:25):
Speaking of which, the pod Therapy baitshop dot com U
store is going to be closing soon.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
We've kept it open for scoop Fest. It is available.
So if you want any pod therapy merch, now is
your shot pasture shot. It's not going to show up
by scoop Fest. It will still be closed.

Speaker 5 (03:41):
Well, this goes out Wednesday Thursday for the regular audience,
which is scoopides.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Oh no, I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
If the general audience wants to buy anything from the
general you're moving.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
It's only going to be available.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
We kept it open until scoop Fest, so we haven't
We're not closing the minute, but this.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Is when it is still open. This is so we
have not sold anything in twenty twenty five. Excell. We're
doing exactly as good as I expected us to do.
And that's not this is not this is not pity.
Please no, please, please don't buy anything about your pity.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yeah no, honestly, I'm keeping it open because I need
to do another round of mental fit T shirt. That's
right my myself because that's where I print my own shirt.

Speaker 5 (04:22):
Ye, this is to switch over and do the do
the other one, because then it's free. You don't have
to because you guys pay for this store, yes, which
is why you're closing it. Yeah, it's caused the inside
baseball side of this store costs you money. My sword
doesn't cost me money. You guys can just do that.
It's free and then you could still use it because
like your personal prints. Close the store and then open
it again in Jacob's.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Shop, not in my shop. But it's like it's same service,
you know what, Like make an offer and they just
take it away. You know, I'm just ups of this.
I'll sell pot therapy. Sure yeah, alright, awesome, it totally
works back keep the proceeds. I don't care really, everyone
to see pole with the shirts.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
I will put pot therey. Sure, it's on them shop
storm for me. So scoop Fest is coming up. It's
gonna be a really fun time. If you as you're
hearing this episode on Wednesday or Thursday, scoop Fest will
have just been getting kicked off. It kind of kicks
off Wednesday night with an improv comedy show in downtown
Las Vegas really really fine. Fu.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah the budget show. Have you ever been to a
bucket show? Yeah, I'll go to so much fun, so
much fun. It's a great time.

Speaker 7 (05:26):
I have the night off, so do you.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, I'm gonna be there. Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (05:30):
What a lot of people will do is either hang
out in the air like there were people hanging there.
Will be hanging out in the area during both shows.
People who aren't seeing the show like they'll be it.
So there's gonna be two.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Shows, and so when crowd one is in show one,
everybody else is hanging out at the bar next door.

Speaker 7 (05:46):
I need to buy tickets right now.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
No, No, it's a bucket show. You should throw money
in a bucket at the end of the show. Just
fills up when it fills up, and you just put
whatever amount of money you want to.

Speaker 7 (05:54):
I guess I'm asking about space, not money.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Oh, just hang out with me. I'm gonna VHK. You'll
just be in Whitney.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
We're a big It's Jacob for us. Okay, we don't
buy our own drinks because we ordered to couch.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's five.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
But yeah, so Wednesday night is an improv comedy show,
and then Thursday scoop Fest officially kicks off over at
the Orleans. I am going to be officiating a wedding
that day, all right, so I will not be joining you.
Then Friday, we have a whole day of trivia contests
where this year Pod Therapy is competing against ICs. We
finally got our shot at the Crown, bringing it down

(06:32):
the old men. It's about fucking time I played this
undercard match against Morning Murders.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
Forever, the belt will not be on the line. I
assume that I actually thought that we should so whenever
I noticed that we were against your guys belt. Yeah. Yeah,
So I was trying to come up with a fun trophy.
I called an award shop to see if they would
three D print an award of Jacob, and the flight
was going to be for Jacob, I mean Jacob. We

(06:58):
don't need to do that because Jay can inform me
in the pre show that we actually have five trophies available.
Oh that's right, yeah, keep competing with my best Las
Vegas trophies.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
Great idea, Yeah, put them all in the line. That's right,
zero percent Las Vegas trophies versus yours.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
They have a few too. And then here's the thing.
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, I don't trust you to fight because just the yeah,
exactly zero present.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
I just I just want a good show. Yeah, I
just want people to have fun.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
So Friday is going to be this really fun trivia
contest and a lot of great entertainment, live variety shows.
It's a great time than Saturday. More of that deeper
dives into some really great podcasts that are going to
show up and entertain.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
And then it's just really fun. Then after we at
the bar, it's a great, great time.

Speaker 5 (07:49):
We often do uh, we will at least record the
trivia stuff, and we usually publish the trivia stuff. We
never yeah, we never promised that we're going to publish
the trivia stuff because it is a live event and
who knows.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
But we will probably so far every year that we've
been on it, you always send me the audio and then.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
We always we always publish it.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
So if you are not part of our patreon, patreon,
dot com slash therapy, I really encourage jumping in there,
get in on the patreon because good one well honestly,
just for a month, do it. Even if you're like,
fuck this show, I just tune in on a board.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
If you're only signing in for a month. It only
cost you ten months. Yeah, this is the month. It
costs you ten bucks to sign in for the month.
Who cares. It gets you in there, It gets you
in there. I bet you'll find something that you like.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
You're gonna have fun with it because this month we
are going to be releasing our trivia battle against ICs.
We might even release some bonus content of other people's
trivia battles because it's a playing fucking time. If we're
part of it, we'll make sure we pump it through.
And then we'll also be trying to like broadcast live
and just doing things for our social media. Everything always
pumps through our Patreon, So check it out. It's gonna

(08:50):
be a really good time, even if you cannot make it.
Obviously to scoop Fest, we want to pipe you in.
We want you to be part of it. One of
the big reasons we started this show and it have
been a part of it for so long is the
human connection.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
For us.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
You know, it's not about the multi millions of dollars
we make in every single week. It's really about the people,
and so this is our chance to be a part
of that. So check it out Patreon dot com, slash therapy.
If you guys are live streaming anything that's related to
pod or, I'm sorry, this really scoop fest. Is your
twitch gonna carry that? Where where would they find if
we If we.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
Stream anything, it'll be on our twitch, which is the
Bucket Show dot com.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Okay, copy that the check Bucket Show dot com. But
it will also be on our YouTube and all that
kind of stuff. It's going to be a fun time.

Speaker 5 (09:30):
We don't do We don't do a whole lot of
video live streaming though. Yeah it gets weird live streaming
from live events, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Because you're not able to interact with the online audience.

Speaker 5 (09:39):
It's just such a big it's that and like there's
stuff happening that is in context of things that are
happening live, like a part of the context the event.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
So it's going to be a really fun time. We're
really excited for it. But check it out patroon dot com,
slash therapy. We will try yelling that racial slur over
and over again.

Speaker 6 (09:55):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
There is probably should have been here for it was
behind the there's there's always there, and there's contents is racism.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, sure, rearing its ugly head and I'm trying to
fight it by participating in it.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Anything that I'm a part of usually fails. And this
is me, this is me sacrificed. There you go.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
We got some great questions for this very special scoop
Fest week episode and we're starting off the lineup.

Speaker 5 (10:22):
I know, we got a lot of just like laughers,
and we're gonna we're gonna have a good time with
all the questions today. If that's too serious, no, no,
don't worry about it. It's all a good time.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
No, it's gonna be nice, easy sailing show. Keep it nice.
One thing that I know about one of the questions,
it's gonna be great.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
First question leading off the order today is over attachment
issues from pal Molly. You know it's gonna from Hey, Jim, Nick, Jacob,
and Whitney and most important, the intern in the broom closet.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Oh, hello there, come out. I know why are you
a jake? Tell you get you. I just wanted to say.
My name is Molly. I'm a twenty six year old female.
I've been.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
I've been in therapy for five years. I'm dealing with depression,
anxiety and complex PTSD. I'm going through a particularly difficult
time with depression and got to second base for the
first time in my life. This past month, I wrote
down how my effects would be split and signed h

(11:33):
my name. However, I'm back on the straight and narrow
and doing my best to fight back. My problem is
emotional regulation and creating strong and involuntary emotional attachments. I
work in a male dominated industry.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
My cycle is this.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
I'm paired to work with an older man who is
my boss and in a mentor position. I'm the apprentice,
and within a month or two I start to over
attach to them. One of the signals this is how
happening is that I write a poem about them haha,
or I type and video journal to offload the emotions,
which are overwhelmingly good in the beginning. My thoughts turn

(12:11):
to them at all hours of the day. I replay
moments from work, ponder their personalities, good and bad, or
extrapolate on little information they've given me about their personal lives.
My priority at this stage is to go to work
so I can see them again. I replay my mistakes
I've made and agonize about having disappointed them. I want

(12:33):
them to leave my life, which is an eventual reality
as the different jobs always end and we travel on
to the next one. I don't necessarily put these men
on a pedestal anymore, but since I feel flooded with
dopamine just being around them, it definitely colors the world rosy.
I feel alive, motivated, and social. I'm attracted to their kindness, humor, quirkiness,

(12:56):
teaching ability, music sharing, vulnerability, and storytelling about their lives,
and if they're easily frustrated, I feel compelled to do
what I can to help. There may be a flickering
sexual element that accompanies all this, but if I focus
on those thoughts, the reality reality of it quickly unravels
any sexual interest.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
At this stage.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
A great amount of the flickering of the if you
will ash goto at this stage, A great amount of
energy is put into maintaining boundaries. I don't get too
personal and try not to overstep. We're working side by side, though,
and I love making people laugh and trying to connect
on some level. However, I'm trying to prove to this

(13:37):
person that I don't want to break up their marriage
or cause them any trouble. I'm trying to experience this
joy in a measured way, which can be difficult when
it feels like pure sunshine being around this person. If
I'm disregulated that day, the tightrope between anxiety, joy and
sadness is exhausting. If I feel I'm making them uncomfortable,
I begin pushing away. I get disregulated and begin to

(14:00):
ruminate well. My coworkers eventually pick up on my attentive
listening and giggling behavior, then subsequent emotional turbulence. I wear
it all on my sleeve, as I always have. The
reactions usually begin with disbelief, confusion, and fear, and shift
to them pulling away. These people are all fathers with
adult children. Their uncomfortable reactions to my emotional state sends

(14:24):
me into a shame spiral, and I get super anxious
around them and overthink every interaction, which exacerbates the whole ordeal.
The second piece of this cycle is that these men
talk to their other coworkers all the way through the
grapevine until a majority of the crew is aware of
what's happening, and it begins to feel like a joke
that I'm not in on. I wish it were a

(14:46):
joke that job grapevine translates to a larger grapevine of
mutual people who know me or whoever I fixated on
within my organization or quote small town where gossip travels fast.
Mood feels tied to their reactions of me, and I
feel sometimes angry at their judgments or otherwise internalize my

(15:07):
sadness and blame myself for feeling these things. Even after
the jobs end, I may be spinning my wheels for months.
My longest stretch of rumination and yearning was two years.
Do they make a medication for this? I'll take any
two cents that you have. Please advise and thank you

(15:27):
to your intern for doing God's work.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
You'll get your rest back in that book. Never come
out of the closet. So this is a okay, Whitney.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I am going to be so fascinated in your take
on this because there is a stereotype, a trope, and
there's tropes about all genders, right, there's tropes about all things.
But the trope is that, and obviously it's not extremely common,
but there is a trope where, Okay, the woman is
connected to, sometimes attracted to, but interested in and like

(16:03):
emotionally desiring of the elder guy's approval somehow, and this
writer kind of puts some skin and bones on that
experience and kind of shares like, yes, it is kind
of like a fatherly dynamic.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
I kind of like this guy. I think he's charming.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
I kind of dig that he's a little bit in
authority and a little bit older than me, And like, no,
it isn't necessarily sexual for the writer. They're just like
I can't help it, Like I'm just enamored with this person,
and it kind of starts off really innocent, but then
I start to show I have all these tells where
like I can't help myself. I'm clearly enamored with them,
and then it makes it awkward and it's weird for everybody.

(16:40):
So this is an interesting dynamic, right, I feel like
it's a dynamic that men and women could relate to.
But I think the trope is that a lot of
women will talk about this, Like you obviously work with
a lot of women in therapy.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Is this overblown?

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Is this something that like society thinks happens way more
often than it does, or is this something that's like
it does happen, and it's like there's a reason for this.

Speaker 6 (17:01):
Yeah, I think it doesn't happen as much as like
society would like to think.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
The thing that I watch it almost happens every other video.

Speaker 5 (17:11):
I mean, it's really common, like this letter aside, this
is something that I think older men want.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Does it happen more? I think it's something that they
think happened.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
More frequently or less frequently than getting stuck under the
coffee table.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, that thing.

Speaker 6 (17:31):
If you're with plumbers? Are you there a prentice? So oh,
this was the word I was looking for. Okay, So
I think that things that stuck out to me here.
There's a few different things. I mean, the obvious route
I would want to ask about is just like what

(17:52):
was your childhood like, you know, like what's going on
with like male figures in your life.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
And general hypotheses.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
If you had a female patient that came in with
this kind of a story and said, look, you're just
meeting me for the first time. In my industry, there
are a lot of elder guys that tend to be
an authority positions. My role tends to have me cycle
through and pair with those guys as part of their
squad for a while. And when that happens I develop like,
definitely a disproportionate amount of attachment. Then the situation really

(18:20):
should like it's beyond professional. I'm enamored with them. I
feel really personally aligned with them. I kind of get
obsessive over them. What would your hypothesis be about a
female who told you that about her history?

Speaker 6 (18:32):
Yeah, I think the fact that they mentioned that it's
happening with a certain age of and gender obviously, but
like age and gender, that's what leads me kind of
down that paths. I want to ask questions about about
what their childhood or what their upbringing was like, or
who were the impactful people in their lives or who
was not there.

Speaker 7 (18:52):
So I mean that.

Speaker 6 (18:54):
Usually goes toward like father figures or you know, was
your parent around your father figures.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Which you assume absence is that usually the guess.

Speaker 7 (19:02):
It could be absence.

Speaker 6 (19:03):
It could be just that they were there and not
giving attention, you know, Yeah, emotional absence, I guess, yeah,
is what that would be. So that's that's one thought.
I know it seems really cliche, but I would be curious.
That's probably the first route I would go down, Like
we want to we want to kind of like work
with what we think is not obvious, but you know,

(19:24):
go down that route first. The second thing that kind
of came to mind, I started thinking about this term, uh,
and I don't think it fully fits this, but like demisexual,
Oh yeah, what is that? It's usually when you start
feeling attraction towards the only way you feel sexual attraction
is somebody that you're friends with, Like you have to

(19:44):
have that.

Speaker 7 (19:46):
That you wouldn't do well with one night stands.

Speaker 6 (19:48):
You'ren't like, oh yeah, I just want to go have
sex with somebody because I'm turned on right now.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Right, it's like emotional connection, you.

Speaker 7 (19:54):
Know, Yeah, I'm not.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
I'm not really turned on. Even if you're a super
hot person, like right, that just doesn't matter to me.
If we're not clicking, if we're not like connected emotionally,
then I'm not turned on by Oh so it's not
gonna happen.

Speaker 7 (20:08):
So I kind of wondered about that listening to this.

Speaker 6 (20:10):
It's somebody that they're spending a lot of time with.
I'm guessing if they are a mentor position like I mean,
I don't know. In the work environment, you're around these
people like eight hours a day, and if you're working
in person a normal job, you're around these people a lot,
and so I think there's that natural build up of
like a friendship or like emotionally connecting to someone. You're

(20:33):
gonna share about your family a little bit, You're gonna
share about your hobbies or whatever, and you kind of
get to know the person just in general. And if
you naturally are kind of a demisexual type of person,
then that could be what's happening here.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
Now.

Speaker 7 (20:48):
The thing that I'm like unsure about.

Speaker 6 (20:50):
Is they said it doesn't always really express as sexual.
They're like, I mean, yeah, I think that, but like
it's not one hundred person clickers of it.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
But then it's like it kind of quickly dissipates.

Speaker 6 (21:01):
So my last and third thing that came to mind,
I had to look up the word because I was
blanking on it. But this is something I've actually had
two clients who were not female, not not assigned birth
at female I should say, or assigned female at birth.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
That I say, yeah, so assign a female?

Speaker 7 (21:18):
Did I say that birth that female?

Speaker 6 (21:22):
But both of them are younger too, like this person's
age or younger, and both of them expressed forms of
like limerens.

Speaker 7 (21:29):
Have you Oh yes, unpack, yes, okay, so this does
not get used to not no, I agree.

Speaker 6 (21:37):
And the first time I heard this in session, I
felt stupid because I was like, I don't know what
this fun.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
I don't remember learning it in grad school email feeling
currently don't remember learning about this in grads yea, and
I for read it. I was like, these are like
rhymes that start with the same letter or something, right,
I think. I know I was a thingist from Nantucket.

Speaker 6 (22:02):
And this is probably me being a bad therapist. But
I did not tell them I did not know what
this was. I kind of like went through.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Its confidently not and go like, oh exactly.

Speaker 6 (22:15):
So anyway, afterwards I googled and that was very helpful
for future sessions. But it's an involuntary state of obsessive,
passionate and idealized romantic desire for another person, characterized by
intrusive thoughts, a longing for reciprocation, and a strong emotional
dependency on the other's perspective perceived.

Speaker 7 (22:35):
Feelings for them. Nick So unlike love, it's based.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Are you saying you have that for me? I know
we all know that.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Like trying to figure out I feel like you don't
respond to the poetry that I send you, and I
don't know if you see it, you know, because like
I write it, I don't like.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
Okay, we've already established that Nick does not do well
with emails. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean these are not
I write them on cards and I mailed them.

Speaker 6 (23:09):
But I love This last part says, unlike love, it
is based on uncertainty, and individuals may neglect their own
lives to focus on the person of their affection known
as the limerent object.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Anyway, So but that's so, how is that different than love?

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Because it's an obsession with somebody who doesn't have any
connection to you. The uncertainty of the connection fuels your
obsession with that person. Yeah, so it's much closer.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
To like, sorry, that just describes everyone I've been in
love with, right, Yeah, you take no notice. This is
just normal, like me, Right, this.

Speaker 7 (23:45):
Is going really well, Right, we're validation.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
I wasn't going to say obsession, but I was going
to mention that these people seem to be occupying a
lot of real estate, yes, in the writer's mind. Yeah,
and how often does it happen when you have someone
occupying all that space in your mind that like after
a while you start thinking about sex a little bit,

(24:10):
and since that person's already in your mind, like now
I'm thinking about sex with that pressure.

Speaker 4 (24:15):
So okay, So follow up question here, So the Limericks thing,
So are you saying that for the writer if let's
just say one of these men, yeah, starts to reciprocate,
would that mean that Molly then would just it would
just kind of fizzle out, like it would just kind

(24:35):
of go up?

Speaker 3 (24:37):
Or is it cookie?

Speaker 7 (24:39):
Yeah, I don't know the answer to that, id.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Whitney, I know here, Okay, so I just admitted to
being a really bad therapist and I just rubbing her
nose in it. You're kind of a dick.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
So, like I have had patients over the years who
have had very similar experiences of Molly men and women,
you know, to point that out. Yeah, but you know,
it's interesting because I've definitely had cases where that that
hypothesis has been tested, Nick, where they've they've developed like
they tend to be more attracted to a mentor kind
of type guy. And it's interesting because I think part

(25:17):
of the chemistry, part of the attraction is that they
do feel safe with that guy that he's trying on
the clothes of mentor, right, and so he takes this
position of sort.

Speaker 7 (25:28):
Of there is some caring involved.

Speaker 6 (25:30):
Usually it's yeah, like the mentor cares about your life
being These would be like their friends who like with
other people sometimes but they just spend a lot of
time with them, and they're like, oh do I I'm
just thinking about.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
The mentor seems to care for you.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
You should you owe that mentor some amount of immediate
deference of like you're not just the you know, yeah, yeah, yah,
it's really close to that. And so like you're you're
trying to like impress this person you care about this person.
They seem to care about you, and so they get
all this extra like capital in your relationship immediately just
because of their posture and their position. But then the

(26:05):
person in cases that I've had this, they've often told
me like, I'm kind of attracted to this person in
some ways, maybe because they are not immediably obtainable. It's
not this person who's actually an option.

Speaker 7 (26:18):
I feel like if they did reciprocate, there would be
a way.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
And so like I've had this situation where the man
or woman in this situation will signal, you know, that
giggling kind of.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
Affection. Other people kind of pick up on it.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
They're like, hey, I think this mentee is kind of
into you, and mentor for whatever reason, is like, oh,
I really do like this person. That would be neat
if there was a connection, and so they may pursue
it a little bit, and then the person in Mali's position,
oftentimes not always, but oftentimes immediately loses interest. It almost
becomes hurt and it's like, I can't believe you would
be predatory at me. That changes my views of you.

(26:56):
I thought you were this upstanding, noble guy. I had
infused all this blank sla kind of energy.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
You don't even have to go through all of that.

Speaker 5 (27:02):
You can just say, like, I had a mental image
it was a relationship was yes, it was ideal, and
now you are executing something that isn't.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
That's not my intention was. But sometimes it can look
kind of similar.

Speaker 5 (27:16):
You know, if you if you're kind of giggling to yourself,
and I say this from my own experience too, if
you're kind of giggling to yourself, you're if you're if
you're having fun, if you're being flirty, if you if whatever, you.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Are kind of a giggly flirt and then people turn
and you go, oh, ship withn't it?

Speaker 5 (27:30):
Yeah right, no, no, no, no, everybody. Jacob is a
giggly flirt everywhere you see.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Him at the gas yeah, yeah, he's always te heeing,
you know, just making conversation with other dudes at the
next pump at the gas.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Station, just always with his ts. So yeah, it's a
fascinating dynamic.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
And I think that we're like looking alongside this, Molly
and just appreciating you are not alone.

Speaker 6 (27:57):
It is.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
It is a bit of a common, you know, theme
that we've seen in a lot of people's lives. Oh,
I just remembered we should should do We need to
go back and revisit the second base thing. I thought
about that, and we need we need to tell listeners
what that what that is? Yeah exactly, Yeah, I'll do
it really quick. So in the history of the show,
we use the metaphor of the baseball diamond to help
kind of visually capture the concept of suicide danger, and

(28:21):
so we talk about first base being very very common
where people just have the idea of like, ah, man,
I might want to end my life. What's the point
of being alive, and that therapists don't necessarily try to intervene.
At first basis, it's super super common. And second base
is where people start to get serious about it and
they start to say, you know what, here's the method,
here's how I would end my life, and that kind
of sounds practical. It's not like a dragon would eat me.

(28:42):
It's like, actually, here's a real way that I would
end my life. And that's not make believe and even
therapists can handle that too.

Speaker 5 (28:49):
It's it's the type of thing like, right, like I
have access to these pills, right, and if all these
pills that would be that would be here's.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
This reasonable way that I would actually hurt myself. And
when therapists here that our ears kind of pop up.
That's when we're starting to be like, okay, now we're
leaning forward in our chair a little bit. We're starting
to get a little bit closer to wanting to intervene
on that. Third base is where it starts to get
really practical. That's the method, that's the how, that's the when,
that's the why. That's when a person starts completely getting serious,
so they're planning it and then stealing home is whenever

(29:19):
they're they're getting to the point where, yeah, this is
all coming together. It may turn into a real action plan.
This is becoming real in the world. So we use
that metaphor in the history of the show. And so
when the writer says I've caught myself kind of at
second base, they're saying, hey, this has caused me so
much distress. I know we're talking about infatuation. I know
we're talking about Limerens. I know we're talking about Oh,

(29:39):
I have this crush on mentors, And I don't want
the host to get too distracted by that into thinking
this is some innocent, benign thing, because I've gotten a
second base on the suicidal diamond here where I've thought, man,
I'm so discouraged by this that maybe I can imagine
hurting myself.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
So we want to take that seriously.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
You know, even as we're normalizing it, I think as
Whitney and I were starting with, is normalizing how common
this is, we do want to also take this seriously
and meet Molly where she's at, where she's asking these
honest questions of like, hey, do y'all have any feedback,
any advice on this? You know, what does a person
do when they're having this kind of like emotional connection
to these kinds of issues.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, I mean I think that's all the time we have. Yeah,
thanks anyway, Molly, good luck gets.

Speaker 6 (30:23):
I know it's like, what do you do with those
feelings that feel so big that you can't control them?
And I mean it's interfering with your work. I don't
love that for you.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Twenty six Okay, Mollie said she is a hot, supple
nineteen year old. That's what's aird thing for somebody to
say that I've seen both.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
The word that was a nice clean drop though, right
in time for Scoopfest. That is definitely going to be
on people's phone, right.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
So, but do you think there I mean, could I
realized that these two issues correlate, but could the depression
be a standalone as well?

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Sure, I mean that you know she's wondering, Yeah, that
you know that this is something that maybe she is
a diagnosable condition that she's you know, major depressive disorder
or something like that.

Speaker 5 (31:27):
But then that answer popped into Molly's head immediately yes
or no answer? Sure, as soon as you said it.
I bet I mean she's like, yeah, either then.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Or oh yeah, there is. Yeah. And then and this
just adds to it, exactly, just yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
A really good point too, because this could be a
form of self medicating, because Molly talks throughout her story
of emotional dysregulation right and constantly refers to I become
emotionally disregulated, but I get this stabilizing dopamine hit of affirmation.

Speaker 7 (31:55):
Value, sunshine and rainbow right from my.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Connection to the mentor, And so I start obsessing over them,
seeking them out, wanting to connect with them, really becoming
enamored with all their little like unique qualities.

Speaker 6 (32:07):
Right.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
That's fun.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
Like that is exciting, like any kind of new relationship
or when you meet somebody and you kind of start
to click with somebody and you're like, oh my god,
this could develop into something very exciting. And yeah, and
then because I can kind of relate to this to
some degree, I remember back, you know, in my early
dating days, you know, meeting someone and then.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Before he got engaged. Yah, let's say set that record. Yeah, yeah,
a lot of dating. Yeah, Okay, settled down within the
last couple of days.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
No, but uh, that is exciting. And you meet somebody
and then you have a really good date. It goes
really well, you're talking back and forth. There's kind of
this excitement, but there's also kind of this thing that
like when it happens too fast, it gets I don't
know how to describe it, but like too real and
too like, oh, I was really thinking, like I was

(33:01):
really enjoying the excitement and get to know you phase,
and now I feel like I know everything about you already, right,
and now it's like, oh, the hunt feels like it's
kind of over interesting.

Speaker 5 (33:12):
Yes, yes, I feel like that happens a lot with
with people who are fresh out of relationships.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Okay, that's that checks out.

Speaker 5 (33:21):
Yeah, based on what you've heard, right Nick people, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it makes sense.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah. No, but I think Nick, you're you're bringing up something.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
I think it's actually really philosophically profound, like the dynamic
that we often get into with the mentor mentee relationship,
and I can relate to this, you know, from the
other side of it.

Speaker 6 (33:41):
Right on.

Speaker 7 (33:42):
That was the other thing.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
I do have an intern, but like there is mister James,
get your ass back in the closet.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
I will tell you when you come out, so I
can appreciate this is not as fun as you said,
it was going to be you stay in the.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
Closet, so I can't even Jacob's house. Now that's fine
that you could stay in Jacob's house, that's fine. Help
out with scoop Fest, Jacob. Don't forget to feed her.
She needs food several times.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
Take care of it.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Well, now you're just gonna have doctor Jacob put her
to work for scoop Fest. She can help fix your deck,
it'll be She's really useful, very handy. No, But like,
I appreciate how complex this dynamic can be. Like, and
especially the thing we tend to hear more of in
society is the empowered male, the mentor figure overstepping right,

(34:38):
And we've we've all heard that storage Yes, taking advantage overstepping,
creeping out the other person and misperceiving the dynamic and
believing that there was a connection there wasn't and then
getting egg all over their face.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
And it's a big mess. I can appreciate that.

Speaker 5 (34:52):
It's usually like whites, Yeah that's what that is. Yeah,
so it's a whole almelet. Yeah, it's the whole bit.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
So, like I can appreciate how that can happen. This
goes back to what eggs there is.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
So Nick was talking about how there is this inherent affirmation,
right because this person is your mentor. They have a
bias towards supporting you and encouraging you and liking you
in this unearned way because you've been assigned to them, right,
and so they they take you under their wing and
they're looking for reasons to like you, to get along

(35:28):
with you. You're not really being tested, and so there
is this huge dose of dopamine. And I think the
same thing can happen shoe on the other foot from
the mentor position, right, because you get this young, enthusiastic mentee.
They seem to admire you, which for men is intoxicating.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
It's like a drug.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
And like to feel like this, especially if it's a
younger female, and like she seems to admire your things.
You're great and you're like, wow, this is going really well.
I'm giving her these insights that I have about our
industry or about this discipline that we both are training in.
She really appreciates that. I feel special in her eyes.
And it can very easily even if you're non sexual
about it, Like I can see how you can become
addicted to that too and feel like, Wow, this person

(36:07):
really likes me and appreciates me. Right, I'm important to them,
And this goes both ways, and I just want to
normalize that for Malli because it does happen on both sides,
and I don't think that that's wrong. I think that's
also what often happens in therapy and what we teach
our students a lot about transference and counter transference and

(36:28):
how common it is to develop a real connection that
we have to actually work our way through that. It
isn't bad that that happens. It's actually a good sign
because it shows that we're bonding really well, and it
can be an asset to the work we're here to do,
as long as we don't allow ourselves to become distracted
by it. And that would ultimately become the best advice
that I have for Malli is I don't think it's

(36:50):
weird or wrong that you naturally find that you bond
to the mentor person and that you find yourself gravitating
to them. Where I think you've really got the same
skills that I would want in a therapy student is
your self awareness about that reality. That's what I want,
and I tell our therapy students that all the time.
Is that if you notice that you're feeling connected or

(37:12):
even attracted to your patient, I'm not mad at you.
You're not a bad therapist. In fact, that may be
an indicator that you're so genuine and sincere in this
relationship that you're quite unguarded and like you really enjoy
this person.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
And that's what I want. I want you to bond
with them.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Now, what I require is that you become very aware
of that right and you can self pleae because I
don't want that to now turn into a change in
how you interact with this person. And that, Molly, is
where I think you still have some room to grow.
Is where you notice things like I giggle, I'm effervescent,
I'm behaving in ways that signal attraction and connection. I'm

(37:50):
aware of that, and that creates a new challenge in
my relationship, which may cause this guy to pull away
because he's noticing I seem to be trying quite a
bit and like, uh oh, he's starting to get nervous
about what's going on between us, and like other people
notice it. That's the only thing that I really want
to change. I don't want to change that Molly feels
these things. I'm fine with that. I want to get

(38:11):
Molly to a place where she can stop collect herself,
self reflect if she's in therapy, discuss that with her partner,
her therapist, and bring these things to the workshop table,
and then kind of reapproach her relationship in this way
that kind of countermeasures this way that kind of adjusts
for the feelings that she's having so she can ultimately
be where she wants to be in that person's life.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
Does that make sense. Yeah, it's harder to do than
I'm framing it up.

Speaker 7 (38:37):
Oh totally.

Speaker 6 (38:38):
And it sounds like Mollie's trying to do that. But
I think we're like encouraging you, like you really have
to put a bunch of effort into it. Right. It's
almost like saying, all right, part of my job now
is all of these description in my job description?

Speaker 7 (38:52):
Also, I need to be professional.

Speaker 6 (38:55):
It's just like how you decide what to where to
work that day or what, you know, whatever, how we
speak at work, whether you cuss or not, Like this
is just another decision you're making at work that you
are challenged with that maybe not everyone is.

Speaker 7 (39:08):
You are not alone. That is so true.

Speaker 6 (39:10):
Right, But I think it's something you have to be
aware of, like Jim said, and just make that extra
effort and maybe try and find ways when you start
noticing like those feelings inside you mentioned giggling, but that's outward.
What's happening before then? Are you getting like butterflies in
your stomach? Are you kind of smiling a little bit?
More like what's happening before then that you can notice

(39:31):
to intervene first and maybe step out of the room
or like don't go talk to them? Then?

Speaker 7 (39:36):
Yeah, sure, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Like, so that self restrained is very meaningful, and like
obviously I'm using myself kind of adjacent to this to
say I relate. I've got all these wonderful college students
in graduate school. They're all very impressive people, right, They're
all gorgeous.

Speaker 6 (39:51):
So it's hard when you're in a people feel like
you're gonna connect, You're gonna make connect.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
We're gonna connect.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
We're all you know, they're they're aspiring therapists, so like
we're all really good at connecting to humans.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
We're very guarded. Imagine being a college student and looking
at Jim job.

Speaker 5 (40:05):
And being like, man, if only if only I could
be with Jim with yeah yeah, yeah, but you oh
there you go, there you go aspiring to be like you.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Well, I wear all the gold, so I wear all
the gold.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, exactly. The best of Las Vegas is I turned
them into a super around.

Speaker 6 (40:20):
Have you ever felt like there was a student just
yes or no, that like has been attracted to you
or maybe some form of limericks, whether it's like, actually
I don't.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
I don't think I've ever detected attraction. No, and like
I'm not surprised by that.

Speaker 5 (40:36):
Yeah, I think if I were Nick, then yeah, it
probably happened. But like, no, everybody in my life.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
I've had students that have communicated your next Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
This is why I can only bring Nick in once
a semester to talk to my class, because if you
showed up twice, they would just like immediately be stalking.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
The trick is three unbuttoned, that's right. The VI's a
little deeper on that day. Yeah, what's really helping me
about the top button.

Speaker 5 (41:02):
When we say how many unbuttoned buttons, there are we
counting the top button that collar? Yeah, one, one, two, Yeah.
He gets to about the navel. That's where he keeps
the un butttoning. Yeah doos realizing that my regular my
regular three uh, my regular look with three with with
button shirts is definitely three button.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
There you go. Mine two.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
That Nick's going to seduce my students, because they've all
after they meet Nick, they're like, how do I get
a hold of that guy? And I have to explain
that he's amish and he basically doesn't know how the
internet works, and so I'm like, I know, if he
looks like this really hot forty year old dude, in reality,
he's ninety five years old.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
He doesn't know how any technology work.

Speaker 5 (41:45):
Put a hold of him. You can record the voices,
cylinder and you can send it to him.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
No, this is absolutely I have like, how do I
find his uh his private practice, his physical training, and
they've they've disguised it as I want to make referrals
to him, which I'm like, I'm sure you fucking do.
But like I try to tell them, there's the I'm
his one of his closest friends.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
I own a business with him. I don't know how
to find this ship. Good luck he didn't. I didn't
have his direct cell phone.

Speaker 5 (42:15):
I email him and he yells at me that I
sent him an email to the wrong email because it's
the Google and not the Yahoo, or the Yahoo and
not the Google.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
And this week he doesn't know how to check one. Yeah,
there's no hope. The best part is that they interpret
that as me being very off on guard. Yeah, yeah,
that's what it is. Yeah. They're just like, oh, wow,
he's so elusive.

Speaker 5 (42:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, it's Beauty and the Beast like, oh,
he's just staring out the castle into the wilderness.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
He just doesn't care. It's like he's an idiot. He
doesn't know how the integram. What's his Instagram? I fucking
know he would love to know. I wish he did.
He can't.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Her business would be doing better if if she knew
how to use it anyway, So all of this is
the comfort circle. And just to say, I think in
my position where I've noticed people that no, not necessarily
attraction but like admiration, are like, hey, there's a connection here.
My advice to you, Molly is I think it's good
to notice it. I think there's nothing wrong with noticing it.

(43:14):
Where I think you're getting yourself kind of stuck is
I think you should check in with yourself and ask yourself,
what is the best version of this relationship? How could
this relationship be the best version of itself for me personally?
How would I get the best I could get out
of this? So if my students, that's an easy answer.
Like if this student goes on and says, I once

(43:36):
studied under Jim, and I really admire Jim. I think
he's a good therapist, and he treated me well, I
have nothing but good things to say, that is like
the best thing that could ever happen. And then we
become colleagues when they graduate and they get in the field,
and we become colleagues who refer to each other and
admire each other, that would be the gold possible standard.
So if I'm ever noticing that I'm getting too friendly

(43:58):
with this person or it's getting too casual, I remind
myself the best of all outcomes is not that I
make a new friend, because that really wouldn't be the gold.
The best of all outcomes is we become colleagues who
admire each other and refer to each other. And this
person says, I studied under Jim, and Jim gets me
part of that person's legacy.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yeah, under under Doug however you study however you like
three of us.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
So checking on that, Molly and asking yourself what is
the best possible outcome for this relationship. Reminding yourself of
that and regrouping your behaviors to align with that, sometimes
that can give you the best possible move. Even if
you don't have control over your emotions. Yes, if there's
a medicine, there's not good luck. You're just gonna have
to deal with whatever.

Speaker 6 (44:41):
You don't think. Like she mentions all the dopamine you
don't think take a hit a dope version of either
an anti depression or.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
For emotional regulation. I wouldn't. I would. I would tell
you to consult with your therapist.

Speaker 7 (44:52):
Yeah, we talk to a doctor, but I mean there's
probably something that could be helpful. I don't know what
that is.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
Dress always the answer take a hit. Fiftys. We're gonna
take quick break in when we come back.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
We're talking about a podcaster's fears after the Charlie Kirk assassination.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
I'm taking a break. You're listening to pot therapy.

Speaker 7 (45:15):
Alright.

Speaker 4 (45:15):
Today's episode is brought to you by Smity Scoop, Mason Miller,
Tess Miller, Biler, t Harris, Team Monico, Oscar Swanros Hannah, Marie,
Emma Kin, Myra and Sam Cone. And if you would
like to sponsor the show, become a Thera producer Patreon
dot com slash there alright, here we go?

Speaker 3 (45:35):
Who always leads off?

Speaker 6 (45:36):
Here?

Speaker 4 (45:36):
I feel like it's Jacob's turn. All right, Okay, let's go.
We'll go counterclockwise here, here we go. This this trivia
is parent company trivia. Okay, So I'm gonna name a
brand and you have to name the parents company motors

(45:58):
Johnson and Johnson's going.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
To be the same five, Haliburton, Blackstone. I think we
can win this game, all right, Jacob house fitting, how fitting?
Here we go Ben and Jerry's.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
I have no idea. Oh okay, so are you gonna
take options? Are there options? Or do we have to shoot?
There's options? Because I want to steal it, because I
could steal off the hip. You know who you're the
company name? Who owns Ben Jerry?

Speaker 1 (46:28):
I do, but obviously not because I'm a smart man,
but because I'm I like, I really like Ben and
Jerry's ice cream, and so I just happened to but
I've looked at the label like and so I know
the label because I looked at it and I was like, oh,
my cologne.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
Is made by these And I was like, that's interesting.
They own my cologne and my favorite ice cream. And
that's the only reason I know that. Now that I've
got a little more information, I would like hims like options.
He'll take up Pepsi Co, Unilever, Nestley, mars Ah. That
feels like it could be a Nestle thing. I'll say,

(47:05):
Nestley goes to Whitney unless it's me counterclock Is that me?

Speaker 5 (47:13):
Am?

Speaker 3 (47:13):
I the other way said counterclockwise you could have gotten
underneath the clock.

Speaker 6 (47:24):
Ye.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
Yeah, so is it me? And my next I want Nilever.
It is usual one for jim. I only noticed because
they have a big U as their logo, which it's
filled like I think, smaller use.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
And all I was picturing was like I could picture
the Nestle in the bottom of in like that little
blurb was solid.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
Of all the options, that was a solid option. I
only know that it was because I m.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Oh, ship, oh god, I'm gonna go with fred. Let
me let me shoot freed from the hip. No, all right,
can I use you can take options? You cannot look
at your goddamn gurito bad on your feet.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
She's like towing it right back. She's gonna brail her
fucking answer. Okay, uh, Pepsi Co, Mondala, Mondealaz International, Mondolez International,
Craft hins Kellogg's.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
Oh geez, what was.

Speaker 7 (48:24):
The first one again, Pepsiico?

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Oh my god, those are all really good answers. I'm
really sad that Freedo Lay wasn't.

Speaker 7 (48:32):
On there, Pepsi Kellogg. I'm not gonna do the second one.
Whatever that was?

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Craft? Heins, that's the third one the same company. Good, yeah, wow,
goes to Jacob. So it's not Kellogg. I'll say Montague.
What was the first one, PepsiCo, I'll say Pepsi. I

(48:57):
feel like that's yes, of course. You gotta super Bowl
commercials always have and Lays and all that show. They
have a lot of things tangent. Why would we associate
put them in the same commercial, associated.

Speaker 7 (49:12):
Them like Pepsy doesn't own ship.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
They do have a Dorito's taco I guess pe stay down,
p all right, Whitney who owns the brand old Spice?

Speaker 3 (49:32):
There it is? Oh yeah, that was much better, Thank you, buddy.

Speaker 6 (49:36):
It's gonna be ma it's gonna be may I think
it's gonna be either Johnson and Johnson.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Or and shoot from the hip, girl, do it? Respect
your don't.

Speaker 7 (49:51):
Say that you're lying to me. Whatever you're saying, I
don't want it because I respect you. Because Johnson and
Johnson a.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
Girl, Colgate, pal Olive, Unilever, Procter and Gamble Edge Well
Personal Care.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
I'll be an edge, Alloyd.

Speaker 5 (50:10):
Its possible that we have that. I have forgotten what
the question was, old Spice. That's right, okay, and I
would like the options to good please, Coldgate.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
Olive, Unilever, Procter and Gamble Edge Weell Personal Care?

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Oh boy, I mean Coldgate is the that's the easy one.

Speaker 5 (50:29):
Okay, that's the red hairy Alright, I'll say the start
the fire.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
No that Unilever, you believer. Who's the other one? Procter
and Gamble, Procter and Gamble that's all one? Okay? Yes,
damn real quick, here we go, uh xbox, Jacob, Microsoft, Yes,
two point jesus wow, lcu Coke.

Speaker 7 (51:03):
No, that was gonna be mind damn it.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
I'm like, I know it's got to be the other one, right, No, No,
Doctor National Beverage corps. You just in the neck with
a dumb question. No Volkswagen, Ben and Jerry's no Hagen?

Speaker 6 (51:29):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yes, did you a Volkswagenok, no, it's not Volkswagen Nesli.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
They also have cheerios. Uh Miller mill.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Honey, beat honey, all right, all right, I'm clearly winning
podcast your fears after the Charlie Kirk assassination.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Buckle up, Fran, Here we go, Hello, pot Therapy crew,
There we go.

Speaker 7 (51:55):
Zero were canceled.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
I think that Trump may personally arrest Yeah, I hear
a knock a door right now? Just no way, Hello
pod therapy crew. You are part of a great network
of shows I now listen to through being a Scoop.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
One of the other.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Shows you are connected through via ice Cream Social is
more political in nature, and its hosts have found themselves
shook by the recent shooting, even to the point they
have seriously considered withdrawing from the show or even no
longer doing live events. I care about them, and selfishly,
I really enjoy their show a lot and would hate

(52:35):
to lose it for my weekly listen. They are calm
and rational in their approach to talking about events, and
although they don't seem like they say anything I would
think would trigger people to target them. All it takes
is one person, and in this environment with greater and
greater risk. I was hoping that you could talk about

(52:56):
strong feelings of people in the podcast world after the shooting,
and maybe how to deal with the feelings of fear
being more and more public, being a more and more
public figure when you are publishing any thoughts out into
the world. Have you all ever worried about speaking your minds,
especially after events like this? Have you ever been afraid

(53:18):
that creating content might negatively impact you or even threaten
your safety? I care about the content creators I follow,
and I think it's important we humanize your experiences. Thanks
in advance for your answer and all you do for
the world. Signed anonymous.

Speaker 7 (53:34):
I know Jim never worries about.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
Don't worry about Jim.

Speaker 7 (53:42):
He's not sweating right now just thinking about it.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
He hasn't been constantly looking at the door of the
whole time, and he still hasn't gotten.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Will you you've in the past, in the history of
pod therapy, I think I don't know if you've ever
told us on air, you've shared with us that you've
obviously I see us much bigger. Show has been around
for a very very long time, and you guys have
done tons of live events. I have no idea where
he's going with I just like to say that right

(54:13):
to worry you've you've shared with us in the past
that there have been some tough days. There have been
some tough days where the occasional person has stepped over
some lines. Oh sure, sure, and made hosts feel unsafe. Yeah,
And I don't think those humans ever meant to cause harm.
You've always been very careful to say, Look, nobody's out
there just being a bad person to be a bad person,

(54:36):
but humans do overstep yea. And as a professional entertainer,
that can be tough sometimes.

Speaker 5 (54:42):
Yeah, I mean, if you if you go back, if
you're not on the patreon, this is my turn to
say it now, if you're not on the patreon, this
is a good week to get on the patreon, writer,
because if you didn't listen today's Patreon I started to
go into almost exactly this letter.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Yeah, I mean this is I was in a full on,
like funk.

Speaker 5 (55:06):
The day that Charlie Kirk was shot because of all
of this, Because of and I could have just written
this letter. It's just because of all of these things,
I definitely have thought about it.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
And I mean, to some degree, Charlie Kirk was killed
for his opinions.

Speaker 5 (55:29):
To take that to some degree with a lot of seriousness, like,
to some degree his opinions contributed to him getting killed.
I have for over a decade and I don't know
how many thousands of hours on the internet. My voice
is just out there and yeah, that shit comes up

(55:53):
every now and then, because why wouldn't it if somebody
get shot for it?

Speaker 3 (55:57):
And that's what you do. It's a really straight line connection.

Speaker 5 (56:02):
Like I'm I'm not, I'm not burning a lot of
calories here making this making this connection.

Speaker 6 (56:07):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (56:08):
The part that of course gives me a modicum of
peace about the situation is that.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Charlie Kirk was a.

Speaker 7 (56:22):
More Uh.

Speaker 5 (56:23):
He was he was more interested in having spirited debates
and even arguments with people. That's it, not even provoking,
that's not I wouldn't say provoking, but but he was.
He was definitely interested in having arguments with people publicly.
And I am not, I am not interested in in
in that kind of I'm not I'm simply not interested

(56:43):
that kind of entertainment. And that's why I started to
say in the pre show today is I was never
a fan of of Charlie Kirk, but I'm not a
fan of that of the thing that he did.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
I was aware of him, yeah, I was, just I'm simply.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
Not a fan of that type of con and I'm
honestly not terribly versed on a lot of his opinions.
I know, kind of like the big headlined opinions that
that everybody knows about him if you just have a
you know, a newspaper, a newspaper subscription. But past that,
past that, I don't know anything about it.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
But yeah, it was definitely a weird thing.

Speaker 6 (57:21):
It's gotta be weird too because you've never struck me
as somebody who hides their opinion only either, So it's like, yeah,
maybe you're a You're not standing on a stage in
front of I'm not arguing that opinion, but yeah, but
you've never been shy, So I wonder if that shy
about your opinion.

Speaker 7 (57:42):
So I wonder if that was part of the.

Speaker 5 (57:43):
No, because that's just I can't be worried about me,
you know, like I can't be worried about who I
am in addition to everything else. I think at some
point I just have to accept who I am just
as a as a person, and I'm an opinion person.
When I want to share those opinions I am, I

(58:04):
am loud. I could effectively share those opinions. I have
platforms to do them on.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
Like sure, yeah, I don't know. I've I mean my,
I've never.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
Really it doesn't make me scared, I guess, yeah, but
it is a mind fuck I've I'm so far disconnected
from that. I didn't have any kind of experience like that. Yeah,
Like I'm looking at it the same I think as
anybody else on earth is looking at it, which is
just like.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Oh my god, this is wow. That was the whole
thing that was holy shit. Every part it is horrible.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
There was no part of that that I related to,
you know, because I just I'm not that famous, you know,
like I mean, like it's not something I mean, I'm
I'm I'm not even in the top three of the
most famous people in this room. So like, I'm not

(59:02):
I and this is probably and maybe I this is
probably my I take this to a fault, maybe to
a different level. Sorry not, It's fine. I'm not even
not even upset about it, But I don't take it maybe,

(59:22):
and then maybe that's my problem is I need to
take it more seriously because like I've never we've got
a small audience, it's never been anything that I've thought of.
But but Laura takes it a lot more seriously.

Speaker 5 (59:35):
What was your reaction, like, you know, generally describe what
your reaction was when you found out that Charlie Kirk
had been shot and got out the general details of it.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
It was a holy shit, like short moment like wow,
did this just did this just happen? Like is this really?

Speaker 4 (59:53):
It just shocked, like I can't believe that that really happened.
And I knew he's obviously you know, had enemies. Sure,
you know, but like anybody who, like you said, has
strong opinions and goes out is going to have enemies.
Oh yeah, you know, especially if you were like that.
That's what the content was all about. It was about

(01:00:15):
being provocative. It was about having these like conversations. If
conversations were very civil, I don't think you would have
been famous, right right, I mean it was it was
very It was much more. No, the fight was was
what got attention. Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, and so so yeah,
I think my my reaction to that was just like wow,

(01:00:38):
like I can't believe that that happened. But then on
the other hand, I was like, no, I kind of do,
because like, sure, this is kind of the time, this
is this is the age we live in now.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Yeh, like this is happening.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
I don't personally feel necessarily like exposed because we we
do have a smaller audis and so we're not like
Joe Rogan out there. But You're saying like, but you know,
I'm engaged, and like she's anybody. We have a show
and we have fans, we have a discord, and we
have Instagram. We have all these people that follow our
ship and we meet them in person, and so I
was like, yeah, sometimes it's kind of like for her,

(01:01:14):
it does feel like, no, you guys actually matter, like right,
you have an audience.

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
Well, and to be honest, I mean, if somebody was
going to attack us and came in this room right now,
I know I'm not going to be the first one.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Okay that's attacked. It's hurtful. I have time to run. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:01:32):
He's been working.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
Routine to be faster than the bad guy. I just
have to get away fronts out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Not the slowest person in this room, and I'm comping
in my ability to hop the wall before the rest
of the first thing I do is I grab whitney
and throw it at the at the least likely to be.

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
There's like, oh, well, get out of the way when
they hit these douchebags. I'm really just here to protect.

Speaker 5 (01:01:55):
You from them, because I want to say to anyone
who has ever had ad thoughts about those of us
on pod therapy, Let's get if you were to come
in to this room, as you come through the door,
I would be the first one that you would see,
and that might seem like, oh, I should target Jacob first.
I'm gonna tell you Jim is the physically closer person

(01:02:19):
around immediately to your Okay, it's a great point. Really
right there, don't get distracted by looking at me. Jim
is right next to Nick.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
You were saying that Laura. Sometimes Laura is a lot more.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
Anybody want to take bets on whether Jim is gonna
move where he sits next one, I'll move during this episode.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Just in case. That's why Jim doesn't sit still always
give it. What is he on the grid? Never mind
he's taking cover. No, So Laura is a lot more
attuned to, you know, the dangers of being And I

(01:03:07):
feel weird saying a public figure but let's go out there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
But yeah, same podcast podcasters asking us the sincere so
there is Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:16):
So there are times like there are certain things that
I cannot bring up on this show that I know,
you know, and things that are overly personal.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
So I gotta listen here the things here are the
things that we will not talk about. Yeah, okay, do
I have a drum roll.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Somewhere right, But that's that's just out of Yeah, And
there's a lot of stuff to where like those are
things like between you and Laura, you can't talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Yeah, And it's so clear, yes, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
And so there are things that she will say like, Okay,
you can't talk, don't say anything about this on the show,
And to me, I'm like, who the fuck cares?

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Like else? But I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
Out of respect for her, I won't do it. But
she's probably like there are certain things that the world
doesn't need to know about what that's happening in our lives.
You know, there are certain things like that. So just
just being careful about, you know, what information gets out,
and you know there's I'm sure if somebody wanted to

(01:04:16):
know a lot of details, they could probably research it
and they could find it out, but I don't have
to offer it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:20):
That is true for everyone, right, But being a being
any kind of public figure, any level of public figure,
means that you're opening the idea of that up to
more people than a person in a non public figure
role opens themselves up to. It's not that you're putting
information out there, it is that you're putting the idea

(01:04:42):
of you out there, and people go like, oh, Nick,
I'm curious about Nick. I wouldn't have been curious about
him if I hadn't heard him on this podcast, but
this podcast has made me curious about Nick, and so
I'm going to whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
So this is this is I think the heart of
the idea, like we are not a big deal. But
when you cross that threshold of presenting yourself to the world,
you do not have control over who meets you, whereas
when you're not a quote unquote public figure or a podcaster,
you've direct control over how much information you give to

(01:05:20):
each human you meet. So you may be friends with Jacob,
and Jacob may be friends, or it may be friends
with Matt and Matt may be friends of pendulate right,
And it's very possible that you could tell a story
to Jacob that translates to Matt, that translates a Pendulette,
and a pendultte knows something about you personally. But that
is such a weird telephone game. It's it's very unlikely
that it's really going to be impactful. But whenever you

(01:05:41):
put things out into the Internet, now you have this
direct stranger who you do not get to vet, who
gets to know whatever you just said about yourself, and.

Speaker 5 (01:05:49):
It's there forever, and it's there forever I think that
I said over a decade ago, or just you know,
very easily accessible.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
It's it is a fascinating kind of reality. And I know,
for me, I appreciate this question. I think it gives
us a chance to really pull back the curtain a
little bit. Pod therapy is and I was just there's
a conversation on Discord right now where we're talking about
this pod therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
In my opinion, if I make sorry on Discord this week,
I'm just busy with Scar. That's why I'm not on
Discord this week. That's why you missed it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
What you missed is, in my opinion, pod therapy is
much smaller than it deserves to be. The feedback I
get from people all the time, and it's a self
selecting sample. They obviously like us, But the people that
I hear from say, this show is just so unique.
People will say, you four are really naturally friends. You

(01:06:42):
have this really great banter, and yet you can you
can expertly dive in and out a very serious conversation
talking about suicide, talking about really deep sexual stuff, talking
about relationships of trauma stuff, and then pop right back
out and you all magically balance jokes and seriousness. Somehow
listeners are getting this expert level knowledge, and yet it's

(01:07:03):
this passive, like Morning Zoo kind of energy. And we've
had a lot of people over the years that like,
it is really special. And I've pitched the show to
bigger networks to say, look, I don't know how to
explain this to you, but like we've developed a really
good global audience without ever trying. Like people just google
in their own podcast, searches a topic they're interested in,

(01:07:27):
and they find us organically and we have just grown
from that over eight years, and we are consistent to
shit that's really hard to find. We are a very
special show, and so people over the years have told me, like,
it's a really special program. We've never been that big,
despite what I think we probably could be for the
quality of what we do, but we have had these
special surges where we have gotten notoriety. And so one

(01:07:48):
of the ways that this used to happen was through Reddit.
We did a Reddit am back when readit was a
big deal before it kind of got neutered. Back when
read it was really significant, and we had a few
and really happy Reddit. Yeah, no, Reddit fell down. I
don't know anything about that. Yeah, Reddit got bought in
his whole business. But like Reddit back whenever they used
to have a really cherished AM channel, we had a

(01:08:09):
couple of years where we really blew up on that.
We got to the front page of Reddit completely organically,
and when that would happen, we would get floods of
new listeners, and that was always a really strange experience,
at least for me.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Nick.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
Maybe you relate to this because suddenly I would go
into our discord and we would have three hundred new members.
It would just double overnight and it was like whoa
and unlike, this new group of people were interested in
what we were doing, but they didn't know us yet
as people. They didn't know the inside jokes, they didn't
know the culture of the show. They didn't know how

(01:08:45):
to talk to us or how to engage with us.
And that would be really weird for a while because
I'd feel really exposed to a group of people who
I've never met, Like when we interact with people on
our discord or through scoops, like we literally spend days
with these people every year at a conference in Las Vegas.
We drink together, we eat dinner together, like we are
very friendly, and like I have no fear of them whatsoever.

(01:09:08):
I know that we are actually friends. And they listen
to the show and they're not I'm not a figure
to them. I'm a real man that they've met, and
they realize I'm underwhelming, you know, and like great, you know,
Like there's a very humanized process.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
That's the mustache We've been talking about the whole bit.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
What's frightening to me about the Charlie Kirk is whenever
people develop his today you call it a parasocial relationship,
or you call it whatever you want, but there is
sometimes this infatuation or intimidation with this person who's in media.
And I've seen this where like obviously Charlie Kirk is

(01:09:49):
unusually important because the man lost his life, but I've
seen a lot of other podcasters who have been targeted,
where listeners have decided I don't like you for something
you've done or said. I feel personally betrayed you because
I liked your brand and now you did something deviant
from that brand. I've lost track that you are just
a human with a microphone hanging out in your buddy's
guest bedroom right now, and I've thought of you as

(01:10:10):
much bigger than you really are. And now I've designed
this whole takedown campaign to destroy your business, to destroy
the way you have a livelihood, to track down people
that matter in your life, to publicly humiliate you, as
if you're exposing like Brad Pitt, as if it's like
this big, huge, important social justice takedown.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
It's can I talk about that for a second ago
for it?

Speaker 5 (01:10:34):
It is happening today. I'm not gonna say who it
is happening to, but it's happening. Today, a person in
Las Vegas entertainment on their random social media page, just
like they're things social media page. And by the way,
I don't know how hard or whatever this will be

(01:10:56):
to figure out who it is. If you figure if
you want to figure out who it is, figure out
who it is, you probably can. Uh do me a favor,
don't ask me about it because because like we're I'm
having to deal with stuff related to this and everything.
Uh so whatever I wanted to get into it later
on for for all the listeners again, because.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
It's about as deep as I'll go with it anyway.
But anyway, so this this guy dms this act.

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
On their social media page, on their acts social media
page and asks them to do a performance for somebody
that this person knows.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
Uh. The act did not get back to the person,
as to the stranger.

Speaker 5 (01:11:43):
As quickly as the person seems to have thinked who
seems to have thought that that act should have gotten
back to them, And they have gone on a fucking
like burn the bridges behind them campaign. They have gone
on all every social media platform that they can try

(01:12:03):
to get onto. They're getting on there and bad mouthing
this act for really for not getting back to them
on the social media director passenger about a gig, just
about a gig that I'm sure they would have gotten
back to had they seen it, but they hadn't seen

(01:12:24):
it yet, so like they hadn't they hadn't gotten around
to it, and like burning, burning it down to the
degree that I had a conversation with this person earlier
today and we were talking about, like, here are the
things to do, and believe it up.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
Most of my advice is block and perge, block and purge. Don't.

Speaker 5 (01:12:43):
We don't feed the trolls in this house. We don't
like if you if you want to behave like that.
And they were like, oh, this person even emailed my acts,
email and everything and was telling me how horrible it
was that I hadn't gotten back to them and all
of this stuff. Currently, they made an only fans I

(01:13:04):
haven't seen this, but like they made an only fans
with like some kind of sexual cartoon about the person
on the in the act something like, but like people
have been calling the act and calling an emailing the
act and being like, hey, I'm seeing this stuff about it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
Oh my gosh, uh, And I'm like, no, no, we
burn all of this down. We who cares, but we're done.
It goes to show.

Speaker 5 (01:13:31):
But it is a weird thing. And I and I
have that response because I've been doing it for a
little while. And like my mom went through the same
thing years ago. She was part of a program in
Louisiana to try to get a law passed so that Louisiana,
like public schools and like state sponsored things, wouldn't do
helium balloon releases.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
That was that was the attire that she wanted for
the environment she works on.

Speaker 5 (01:13:56):
She she has volunteered for many, many years at a
Wildlife by You refuge and so like she sees balloons
floating into bayou, that's it. And so she's been part
of this thing. She had people like telling her on
Facebook to kill herself and do all of these things.
And she's like, I went to a fucking town hall
meeting and said, I don't think we should release balloons.

(01:14:19):
I think it's littering. It's going up instead of down,
but I still think it's littering. Thank you for your time, right,
That was basically what she had done. Yeah, and she's
calling me, She's like, these people are telling me to
kill myself. I have to respond, I'm like, no, we
don't respond to anything. We just delete, we delete, we block,
we move on. Yeah, if they if something comes up

(01:14:40):
later and this person continues, like they get multiple accounts or.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
Something, then we will cross that bridge later on. Fortunately
that hardly ever happens.

Speaker 5 (01:14:50):
Yeah, it's rare, I mean, and I'm aware that I'm
saying that in a Charlie Kirk discussion, because fortunately not
many podcasters get shot.

Speaker 6 (01:14:57):
In the neck.

Speaker 3 (01:14:58):
That's true, So it's not it's not the comfort that
you want. But right, that's all I got.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
It is not uncommon, and that I think you're piggybacking
on the point that I was making that it's not
entirely uncommon. That yeah, violence is uncommon, but some kind
of recoil. Oh yeah, because you exist and because you
have a platform, and podcasting I think is unique in
the world, because I do think it's a very intimate format.
Of course, it feels much more like you're sitting, you know,

(01:15:26):
with these people in the real world were unguarded. We
know we're not being videoed, and I think actually that
allows us to be much more organic than we would
be if we felt like we were putting on you know,
errors for a video, and all of that comes through,
and so there really is this organic connection and that's
what a parasocial relationship fundamentally is. But when those strangers
out there who we haven't personally vetted and we can't
think about what they know about us, when they learn

(01:15:49):
something about us, or they've heard something about us, or
they dislike something about us, or they feel personally let
down or betrayed by us because they discover that we're
just shitty humans. Yeah that do shitty dumb things. We
don't tip sometimes we are I don't do that. Yeah, right,
nobody would not know anything.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
We're in Vegas.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
But yeah, we step on toes, we make the wrong
decision and the wrong moment. We are just fallible humans.
And there is this huge sense of letdown as a
result to that, and then there are wrong sized responses.
So all of that is Jim kind of coming full
circle to the writer's question where they're saying, Hey, in
a world in which you have been a content creator,

(01:16:27):
does that ever frighten you? Do you ever fear that
kind of thing? I don't ever fear like violence, because
I do think that is extremely rare. But I do
fear this kind of idea that you could become this
person to the listener that is idealized a little bit
and special, and they hold you in a certain kind

(01:16:49):
of sacro saying kind of way, not real, not real.
You don't get to be warts and all of you.
You just become this polished human and they say, well,
you're supposed to be a therapist. You said this really
dumb thing on the discord, or you said this stupid
thing on the Twitter, or I went to scoop Fest
and you were two whiskey's in and suddenly you made
this really off colored joke in my presence and now

(01:17:13):
kind of going back to cancel culture or whatever, like
I kind of don't think you should exist.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
I'm so angry at you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
It's like you just wouldn't have that amount of emotional
energy toward a guy that you just knew through.

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):
Oh that is hard to do with podcasters, right. You
may notice that podcasters hardly ever get canceled because everything
about us is just context, right, So it's very difficult
to take something like it's hard to take something that
I've said in the past completely out of context because
there's just so much of it, Like it was the
same thing with public figures that you just saw all

(01:17:46):
the time, you know, back in the network TV.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Days, and they happen.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Sure people will say, I hung out with Jacob at
the bar, and now I have this hot gossip and
then there's new permeating rumor about it. Sure hits the
community and people feel some kind of way about it
which feels threatening, like and maybe it won't cost me
everything I've ever worked for in my life, But all
of a sudden, this community that I've worked really hard
to serve and to do a good job with feels

(01:18:13):
a very big emotional energy about me, or somebody in
that group feels a lot of emotional energy. I may
that is very threatening, and so it is a very
scary thing. And I guess I just want to relate
to that because I think the writer's like giving us
an opportunity to reflect and say, Hey, this kind of
thing is making me appreciate I think that's what the
writer's saying.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
I think they're saying, seeing this is making.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
Me appreciate how much I like my podcasters, even my
small time podcasts. Yeah, and I think the writer's saying,
I genuinely want to humanize you guys. And give you
an opportunity to reflect on how scary things like this
may scare you and may scare you out of podcasting.
I mean, it's something we've never really talked about in
the show, but I've almost quit pod therapy multiple times
in the history of the show in eight years where

(01:18:55):
I've gotten overwhelmed, sometimes because of me stuff, sometimes just
fear stuff, And in some of that fear is somewhat
related to like I'm scared that my income and my
family's well being and everything has nothing to do with
pod therapy. Pod therapy is essentially a hobby for me,
and like if pod therapy could ever threaten my livelihood

(01:19:18):
or hurt my patience or anything like that, then I
get scared from it and I go, I don't want
to do this anymore. I have a patient who listened
to the show and they're they're well being is threatened
by the show. I shouldn't do this show anymore. And
over eight years, Nick has had unfortunately too many times
whereas he had to sit me down and like, listen
to me cry and hear me go, I'm scared that
I've ruined this patient's life because of pod therapy or

(01:19:40):
they didn't like the show Patient's Life, Right, you're just
a bad therapist. It's not either you're a good podcaster,
but really bad therapist. But like you know, we've had
we've had times where I've had to say, I'm scared
of doing the show anymore. I think the best thing
for me is to step away from the show. And
you know, Nick has always been really gentle about that
to say, Jim, at the end of the day, you
don't owe me anything. Man, If you don't want to
do the show anymore, that's okay. You know, if you

(01:20:00):
think that's the right thing for your life and your
family and your practice and your patience, that's okay. But
also always keep in mind that you have an anxiety
disorder and you're not good at right sizing things, and like, well,
you promised to just take some time and keep thinking
about it, and that's allowed me to come back and
you know, kind of feel safe again. And our community
has always done a really good job of knowing that
Jim's a fragile little bunny, and like, you know, you

(01:20:21):
got to be really careful with Jim, because you could
scare them off and fuck the show up for all
of us, right, you know, and so I read its
a really good job. But you know, just to be
human with you, writer, because I think you're asking a
very sincere question. It gives me a chance to be
very sincere back to you and just I think hopefully
remind the whole audience we really are just little, fragile
humans that we do not make our money from pod therapy.
It's it's just a public service project that we hope

(01:20:41):
does good in the world.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
And I've never been.

Speaker 4 (01:20:46):
Really worried or concerned about violence from what we do, right,
because we've had people who have told us, like, I
disagree with what you said, I am no longer a listener.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
They've let us know, and they've been pretty mean about
it too. And you guys are at what you do
you shouldn't be And to me, that's about as bad
as it's gonna get for us.

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Yeah, yeah, because I don't think because here's the thing,
like the thing that happened, what happened with Charlie Kirk
is not that's not anything new, right that. One of
my favorite paintings is It's the Death of Moreau by
Jacques Louis David. Louis David. It's a French painting and

(01:21:37):
it's it's a painting of you've probably maybe you've seen
it before, but it's the guy he's dead in his
bathtub and he's just laying back like that and his
arms hanging down. So he that was a real incident
that happened during the French Revolution. And he was basically
the Sean Hannity of his day. He had a newspaper

(01:21:58):
and so he was writing during the French Revolution, like
he was just writing all this shit about here are
all the people that we need to kill. Yeah, here's
all the stuff. These are all the bad people. And
he was putting out this paper every day, you know,
and then he was murdered in his bathtub.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
Some woman came in. It's just I think, like sixteen
years subject of the painting was the subject, yes, and so.

Speaker 4 (01:22:24):
He was murdered in his bathtub, and that was the painting.
That was the subject of the painting. Was this event
that happened, and like.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
The guy in the painting was the newspaper guy. Correct, yes,
the guy in the bathtub.

Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
So but basically what happened is like I think where
it gets violent is when people feel like, yeah, I'm
going to do this thing.

Speaker 3 (01:22:49):
But it's for a greater good and justifies the main
exactly right.

Speaker 4 (01:22:53):
Yeah, it's it's this idea that, yes, this is not
a good thing, but by me doing this, it puts
an end to this much worse atrocity that I think
is happening, right and ultimately right and ultimately it doesn't
you know, that's like the same it's the not to
go super dark with this, but it's the exact same

(01:23:13):
justification for suicide.

Speaker 5 (01:23:16):
It is it is, I have a solution to this problem.
I can just stop it, right and honestly, that's the
only way that you get to the end that is,
that's the only end that you're going to get to
is death.

Speaker 4 (01:23:29):
I think that's the thing that makes me feel safe
is knowing that there's nothing that we're doing on the
show that's really creating.

Speaker 3 (01:23:39):
That kind of.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
Belief system where it's like I need to put an
end to the evil that pod Therapy is doing. Like
I don't think, I don't think anybody's I don't know.
I mean there's been some times Whitney's going on and on.
I'm like, you know what, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
Right now put a stop to this ship. Well, I mean,
it goes. It always goes small to big.

Speaker 5 (01:24:07):
So like what what Nick is talking about is all
of the the small stuff when you when you get
h When we get a letter from a Patreon saying
that I am canceling my Patreon membership because you guys
are assholes. And I'm saying guys, including Whitney and that
because Whitney is definitely an asshole. Uh so, yeah, like

(01:24:27):
you guys are all assholes and I'm canceling by Patreon
hurts a lot. When we get those emails, and we
get them for pot therapy, we get the price crib social,
we get them for any thing that has you know,
kind of you monetize on and you and you do
things regularly, we get cancelations and uh yeah, like sometimes

(01:24:48):
they come in and they fucking hurt.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
We get reviews.

Speaker 5 (01:24:51):
I mean, there are reviews out there for various shows
that talk about how bad I am on those shows.

Speaker 7 (01:24:57):
I guess I'll stop making those don't stop.

Speaker 3 (01:25:00):
I don't care, So I'm sending those text assay, honestly, But.

Speaker 5 (01:25:09):
Yeah, it all starts with those kinds of things. And
so you say, like, okay, well here's someone who said
Jacob is an asshole on this on this program. Well
you can say, great, Uh, there are one hundred people
that listen to this program. One percent of those people
have now said that Jacob is an asshole. More people
might have fought it, but one person, one person stepped

(01:25:31):
up and said it. And so I mean, you do
get into that, and not not to uh be the
be the the person saying the sky is falling a
little bit here, but you do get into that with
the There aren't many people that shoot podcasters either.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
There are many people that that. There aren't many people
that post reviews about podcasts. There are many people that
take off Patreon subscriptions to the podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:25:52):
There are many people that do you know, each step,
each step further into the rabbit hole of a podcast,
you're already out of what the majority does usually.

Speaker 3 (01:26:02):
Yeah, And so that's I guess that's.

Speaker 5 (01:26:05):
The part that weighed on me a little bit after
the Charlie Kirk shooting was it's it's not even the
idea that it just takes one.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
My thought is those people are always everywhere.

Speaker 5 (01:26:21):
Right, and they are not being hit, they're not being
triggered whatever you the pick the verb uh, and not
everyone and Certainly, not everyone is capable of everything. You know,
not everyone is going to be someone that shoots someone
the same way that not everyone is going to be
the type of person that leaves a negative review for something. Sure, ah,
but it was something that that was the part I

(01:26:43):
guess that weighed on me more than the other. Is
just that those people are out there, people who dislike me,
people who are But it's not even a fear thing.

Speaker 3 (01:26:56):
I don't I really don't know how to explain it.
Mind fuck is kind of the best way that I
could explain it, because it wasn't that I.

Speaker 5 (01:27:01):
Was walking around scared, even with the knowledge that I'm
hosting a live podcasting event a few weeks after that, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
Okay, that's just what that is. That that's that's the
world that we live in and that and that really sucks.
But it doesn't change. It doesn't.

Speaker 5 (01:27:19):
It doesn't for a moment think like it doesn't make
me for a single moment think I have to withdraw something.
I can't do live events that you know, it doesn't
make me but doesn't make me want to change anything.

Speaker 3 (01:27:31):
At all, not in myself. As far as that part goes,
I don't know. So Whitney. I'm curious. You're the newest
member of the team here. You've been with us now
well over a year. It's still, according to Nick, more
famous than him. Yeah, easily, though I'm not happy about
it either. I didn't, I didn't disagree with anything.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
Let's be real, let's keep honestly has quickly risen to
number two, Jacob whitn and you and me are coming
down here at the bottom.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
When he's doing very well.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
We are reminded by the Discord community tell us every day,
tell us what you think they're deuce. Yeah, they're always
saying Whitney is definitely the best part of the show,
and most of our questions now, say christ do not
try to answer this without Whitney in their room.

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
We've learned we.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
Are basically here as the support system for Whitney at
this point. But no, I mean, you know, you've you've
handled this with a lot of grace. You've you've you know,
I think immediately when we brought you into the show,
you played along with it. When we introduce you to
our online community, you were like I think at first
you were sort of like, oh shit, this I thought
this thing was really just this dumb duges thing. So

(01:28:42):
some of my colleagues like just have this little silly
hobby and they're just bring me on board. No, you
guys actually have like hundreds of people that are actually
part of this and they talk to you every single week,
and like you quickly got like involved with it and
like picked up on the culture of like, hey, they're playful,
they're teasing, they mean well though, they're all really good folk,
they're real people. And then you started going to some
scoop fests and like picked up on like, no, they're

(01:29:03):
they're absolutely And we tried to warn you before your
first scoop fest of like, hey, people, you're you're gonna
forget episodes that have happened. They were listening though, and
they're gonna walk up to you and pick up on
a joke that happened months ago that you've all forgotten about. Yeah,
and then you're gonna be like, oh shit, what is
this person referencing? And then you're gonna pick it up

(01:29:24):
as you go, And like somebody literally went to the
Jock Versus Nerd ball dressed as one of your jokes
to like honor you, and people were super sweet to
you and like posing for pictures with you and wearing
pewp Whitney you know shirts, and like all this stuff,
and like all of a sudden you have this fan club,
and so I feel like generally it's been positive. I'm
sure overall has been overwhelmingly positive. And yet to go

(01:29:46):
from just you know, therapists who's just doing her job,
going to you know, going to work, going back home.
Nobody really there's no chat room discussing her thoughts this week.
Now there is, And now you're going to another you know, engagement.
What it has been like for you to sort of
be a little bit more public and exist in this
sphere of like, wow, there's people on the internet who
I don't know personally who get to decide how they

(01:30:09):
feel about what I've said this week, and they may
decide that they don't.

Speaker 3 (01:30:13):
Like what I've said.

Speaker 6 (01:30:14):
I know in the beginning it was absolutely nerve wrecking.
Like the first for sure, I don't know, month two
months of just like recording every week. I was like,
oh my god, I like replay in my mind back
something I said, and I think.

Speaker 7 (01:30:30):
Like what if that was perceived wrong?

Speaker 3 (01:30:32):
Remember the first episode, how.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
He was too scared to even be on it. Remember
we introduced her as Cinnamon the Silent Stripper, I believe it. Remember, No,
she just sat there silently like talking to the mic.

Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
She's like, no, I'm good. I just I really just
want to exist and listen.

Speaker 7 (01:30:51):
Yeah, so that that was kind of wild. And I
think it's because I care a lot about what other.

Speaker 5 (01:30:59):
People I hear.

Speaker 6 (01:31:00):
You girls, it's reduced over time. I've gotten more comfortable
and I think scoop us really halt back in May
of last year. Yeah, just seeing everyone in person and
seeing how supportive everyone was, and y'all were not wrong.
You have like an amazing, incredible group of people behind
you and.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Which special shout out to ice Cream Social Jacob. Indefinitely,
we are grateful that you, Paul, and that other asshole
have included.

Speaker 3 (01:31:29):
Us in your family. His name was Spaedoni.

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
Okay, very talented music, but anyway, just quick quick shout out,
thank you for letting us be a part of your universe.

Speaker 3 (01:31:37):
It has made that This makes the next part of
this conversation even more awkwards. Oh no, breaking up with us,
good run. It's not you. It's just the venue has
a number of seats available, but we're on the fucking head.
We're on the Marquis. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:32:02):
If there was something we could do, I'd love to
do something about it, but my hands are tied.

Speaker 3 (01:32:07):
You were saying that people turn out to be wondering.

Speaker 6 (01:32:09):
Yes, that was so helpful, just seeing meeting people face
to face and seeing how genuine everyone was and authentic
and yeah, just real people getting real tattoos.

Speaker 5 (01:32:23):
And Jim, you said this earlier. I've said this off
air before. I don't know if I've ever said this
on air.

Speaker 3 (01:32:30):
And I should. How much you loved me?

Speaker 6 (01:32:31):
Uh no, Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:32:33):
Jim mentioned that I have had problems in the past
with with listeners to various things, becoming possibly a little
over zealous. Uh and truly, Uh, that has because I
I have a rough idea about how many individual people

(01:32:55):
have listened to ice Cream Social over the years.

Speaker 3 (01:32:57):
Okay, so not like subscriber numbers.

Speaker 5 (01:33:01):
I have a rough idea of like how many individuals,
and so I have constantly kind of in the back
of my head a circular going of like these people
have all listened to me in some way, shape or form,
Like that's always kind of spinning somewhere in the back
of my head.

Speaker 3 (01:33:17):
And what those.

Speaker 5 (01:33:20):
Very very small number of people that became a little
over zealous over some times. What that has done for
me is made me happier and more confident and hopeful
in people. Okay, because I know that out of the

(01:33:44):
not small number of people that have heard my voice
over the years, I know what the number is of
people that have become a little over zealous, and I
know out of those people the number of them that
really kind of crossed the line.

Speaker 3 (01:33:57):
Yeah, and it is such a vanishingly small number.

Speaker 5 (01:34:03):
It isn't like that independent little piece of data that
is that doesn't mean anything scientifically, by the way, you know,
it didn't mean anything at all, doesn't doesn't doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
Indicate anything or anything like that.

Speaker 5 (01:34:15):
But that little piece of data has made me genuinely
happier and genuinely more confident in just people in general.

Speaker 3 (01:34:24):
That's a great point. That's a great point. It is
an extremely small number. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:34:28):
And and like you know what's interesting too, come and
like statistically zero yeah, right, right, statistically.

Speaker 3 (01:34:34):
Just almost nobody, almost nobody.

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
Like one of the things that that has hit me
is when I've gotten onto the discord and groused about
you know, I really like people are say nice things
about the show, and I'll be like, you know, I
really do think this is special. I really do think
what we've created is a special show in the podcasting universe.
I've sampled alternatives that are question and answer answer shows
with experts or with comedians. It is just hard to

(01:34:57):
pull off what we do, and I've I've kind of
groused and said, man, I really wish people would find us.
I really should get our shot. And it's funny because
I've had other like listeners of the show who have said,
on one hand, I love you guys, and I want
that for you. On the other hand, I love that
our community looks.

Speaker 3 (01:35:15):
The way it does.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
Yeah, chance, and if you guys went viral and blew up,
we would have no control over that. Right now, people
find us one at a time and they join the community.
Every week we're like, oh, new therapeal, new therapod. They
just found us, they're joining the community, They're in the
discord now, they're chatting with us, and like, one by
one they get absorbed.

Speaker 5 (01:35:33):
But you know what, I know that that's a little
not paranoid, but that's that's word I'm gonna use anyway,
because it's our listener saying it, so they know that
I am not telling them that they are actually paranoid.

Speaker 3 (01:35:44):
I think that's what but but you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:35:46):
But we've had that happen, right, And the examples that
you gave earlier in this episode, we talked about the
spikes that used to happen in listenership and and in
you know community back and forth. Yes, every time one
of these big spikes would happen, and that community surfed
right through all of that. No problem at all, right,

(01:36:08):
because the community is a different thing from the show, right,
And that's something we've figured out an ice cream social
afe very long time ago. Is you know, this community
that has happened around us, and the same thing has
happened here is not part of us.

Speaker 3 (01:36:24):
That is the listeners. And it's nice.

Speaker 5 (01:36:27):
We get to think nice thoughts about ourselves and say
we attract good people and nice people who are kind
to each other. And this is a wonderful community, I mean,
and that's great and we I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:36:37):
We could say that.

Speaker 5 (01:36:39):
But at the same time, it's still you people doing it, right,
It's still not us doing it like y'all the ones
just being nice to each other and being kind to
each other. And I don't think for a second, you know,
when three hundred new people would show up one week
and they'd be gone the next week, you know, because
of a Reddit thing that didn't phase you, guys.

Speaker 3 (01:36:58):
I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (01:37:00):
I know there's six hundred people would do or another
thousand people would six million?

Speaker 3 (01:37:05):
Six million people?

Speaker 5 (01:37:06):
I mean, if six million people showed up in the
Discord tomorrow, that would probably be overwhelming.

Speaker 3 (01:37:11):
Yeah, for quite a few people.

Speaker 1 (01:37:13):
But I mean, I promise you I would not post
if I noticed that there were six million people in there. Immediately,
I'd be like, oh, Jim's going quiet for a while
and let other people sort this shit out.

Speaker 3 (01:37:22):
You would change your identity if six million people know.

Speaker 1 (01:37:24):
It's really funny because I'll post in the Discord. And
it's funny because like I've had people tell me this
over the years, because like they'll join the Discord and
they're surprised that we actually post in there, because like
I have a whole like channel that's just me talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:37:37):
The fucks on my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:37:38):
Today we were like, oh my god, that's actually Jim.
It's like, no, it's getting him to shut up. That's
the hard part. It's really neat day one. Yeah, you're
what you meant for lunch. He has a lot of thoughts.
It's like, oh God, I'd pay money for this. Is
that you really appreciate hearing from Jim right now?

Speaker 4 (01:37:55):
To be honest with you, it's kind of like the
advice we gave the first Listener where it's like the things.

Speaker 1 (01:38:01):
It's way more exciting than when when you meet heard
the story of the lady that was obsessed with Robert Pattinson.
So this girl was obsessed with Robert Pattinson. This is
post Twilight, so he's the hottest thing going right now,
and so she like is obsessed with him, and she's
like stalking him. She camps out in front of his
condo like in New York, and he keeps seeing her

(01:38:23):
every day and she's always standing in the street. She's like,
I love you, Robert Pattinson, You're the best. And one
day he sees her and he's like, you know what,
let's go on a date. And she's like, this is
the best day of my life. Like rober it turns
out he's so depressed, that's so dreary that she doesn't
want to go on.

Speaker 3 (01:38:40):
A second date, don't meet sure social them.

Speaker 5 (01:38:44):
Totally buys her dinner and everything, and by the end
of the day she's like this was great. Bye, and
he's like, can I get your number? And she's like no,
she went on with Robert Patson and want nothing to
do with him. That's how underwhelming I think we all
are in person.

Speaker 3 (01:38:58):
I think, what are you actually know this? You're like, great,
that was nice, I'll see you next year at scoop Fest, Like, oh,
we should give each other. No, I'm good. Yeah, so
last question to the room here and we.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
Can wrap up on a positive note, but like also
a useful note when people meet you, because we are
coming in to scoop Fest. I know I've felt intimidated before.
I still feel intimidated. Like I've known Matt and Paul
for years. I see Jacob every single week, right, and
so like sometimes when I see Matt and Paul, I
still go through And maybe Nick, you probably feel this
even more than I do, because you've always been a fan.

(01:39:29):
But I still go through this, this moment where my
brain only knows their voices. Sure, so we'll hear Matt
speaking several people away from me and Matt and Paul
Salt of the Earth, human beings like they've never ever
acted better than anybody ever. Like I'll'll hang out with
them at Jacob selves will be a bonfire. It's invite only.
We're all buddies, we're all equals. And yet I'll still

(01:39:52):
there in the back of my mind is this like
brain cell that's going These gentlemen are famous and you're
lucky to be in their presence.

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
That's why we invite you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
I appreciate that because I usually started still to one knee,
and I always shake hands by nodding down and looking
down and bowing in an Asian way, and so like
always these things.

Speaker 3 (01:40:11):
So like when when you engage in.

Speaker 5 (01:40:13):
Case you thought that he wasn't being hateful with that, Yeah,
that sense he means when he says bowing in an
Asian way that he squints his eyes before he bows.

Speaker 3 (01:40:22):
I think I showed that show that with my fingers
when I grabbed my face. Have time to run?

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
Yeah fine, you're like definitely not target number one. I
probably don't have to run, so about I'll bet a
nice brisk walk.

Speaker 3 (01:40:37):
Yeah, honestly, come back for your keys. You'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
Sorry, Sorry, I just forgot that if I can just
grab that, is that fine?

Speaker 3 (01:40:46):
Is right? You still half full?

Speaker 6 (01:40:49):
Is this?

Speaker 3 (01:40:50):
I'm just gonna grab this? Also, this hot pocket has.

Speaker 1 (01:40:52):
Like thirty seconds left if I can just wait, just
hang out. So I'm curious to the room now that
we've all done live events, and obviously Jacob way more
than any of us combined, But like, what do you
appreciate or how do you like to be approached or
not approached when people want to talk to you? Because
I've been in their position. I've been the fan who's unsure,

(01:41:13):
like we're gonna do a collaboration with Brian Brushwood and
God Willing Justin Robert Young during scoop Fest. I'm always
still intimidated every time I hang out with them, even
though they are the most salt of the earth, genuine dudes.
They absolutely just do not give a fuck about who
they are or what they've accomplished.

Speaker 3 (01:41:30):
They do not care.

Speaker 1 (01:41:31):
They are just straightforward dudes at a bar, hanging out
having drinks with you. If they're on your show, they're
grabbing MIC's, they're doing their part, they're having a great time.

Speaker 3 (01:41:38):
And I'm always intimidated right Like, and I'm intimidated.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
I'm gonna be intimidated when we do ICs trivia, like
just because oh shit, like that, even Jacob, like Jacob
I see every fucking week. But then when he's on
the stage and he's officially doing ICs scoop Fest, I'm like,
oh shit, like this is the show, and like I'm here,
this whole audience just tolerates me, and they were ship
Jacob like they they are here for him.

Speaker 3 (01:42:02):
Oh shit.

Speaker 5 (01:42:03):
And so a lot of people are just go fawing
listening to their podcast playback machines right now.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
I've always I've been intimidated. I've been that person that's
intimidated but wants to be human because I'm at the
live event and I want to engage with the host,
who I really like, Yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:42:20):
Is it possible that we understand who we are better
than you do? Yeah? Yeah, it's very positive.

Speaker 1 (01:42:24):
So I wonder does anybody in the room have some
thoughts on if you're out there and you're coming to
scoop Fest, or you interact with a personality on a podcast.
You've heard us talk about what we're scared of, You've
heard us talk about the ins and outs of this.
Do we have any advice for the listener about Hey,
if you ever do meet us in the wild, or
you meet us at a special live event, here's some
advice on how to approach and how to have a conversation.

(01:42:45):
And here's even our willingness to have that, because I'm
sure some people are like, oh, you probably don't want
to talk to me. I'm so sorry, I'm even bothering you.

Speaker 4 (01:42:51):
And it's like, no, that's literally the worst thing you think, sir,
and don't look me in they okay, good notes.

Speaker 6 (01:42:58):
Notes, No, I got that where everyone answers I had.
I just remembered this moment when I was at Backstreet
Boys concert. We're waiting and this short line take a
picture under this arch, and while we're waiting, some girl
like walks by these other random people next to us,
and the girl stops and looks at this couple and she.

Speaker 7 (01:43:16):
Goes, oh my god, you do that YouTube show or
like channel or whatever.

Speaker 6 (01:43:20):
And the girl goes, oh yeah, like she was very introverted,
caught off guard, right, girls like I.

Speaker 7 (01:43:25):
Love your show. Oh my gosh, I love your channel.

Speaker 6 (01:43:27):
And she's like, oh, thank you, and then the girl
just walks off. But it seemed like she was just
such a normal little human existing and was like surprise
somebody recognized her. I have no clue who she was,
but I was like, that is adorable, And it was
so relatable in that moment where you're like, especially YouTubers,
they're just usually sitting in their room with like a camera.
There's no one else there, just like our podcast, we're

(01:43:48):
just sitting here and you're like, oh, yeah, people like
listen or watch those things, right, No.

Speaker 3 (01:43:53):
No, you that's a good point.

Speaker 6 (01:43:54):
But like.

Speaker 3 (01:43:56):
So if you're listening and you happen to meet me
at Scoop Fast, please come up say hi. And I like,
it's also what that event is there? That is that event.

Speaker 4 (01:44:09):
It's gotten to the point now where I look forward
to going back and catching up with all the people
I talked to last time, you know, And so it's
it's always fun to meet up with people. But I
will say I am absolutely terrible connecting names and faces together. Yeah,

(01:44:32):
because and it's not I I will remember you eventually,
but I just I'm terrible with names. I also am
not good at recognizing faces, so that doesn't help the situation. Please, humans, yeah,
please come up say hi now if you see me
in public outside of scoop Fest at an airport.

Speaker 3 (01:44:53):
Make a huge deal about.

Speaker 5 (01:44:59):
Come completely hit you if you completely especially if you
do that in front of my wife, and make big deal.

Speaker 3 (01:45:06):
Yes, Like I have thought so many times of trying
to get my wife to go to Scoop. She'll never
fucking do it. She doesn't give a ship.

Speaker 1 (01:45:12):
She barely is aware of this show, Like she is
only annoyed that I go to this, and like I
try to like, Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:45:19):
Scoop is coming up. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
We're gonna do a trivia battle against ICs.

Speaker 1 (01:45:22):
And she's like, I see it. Oh, is at your
friend Jacob show? Like, yeah, it's a show insane clown
pose or something. No, it's it's ice cream, It's it's
a it's not even the same that it's like a
feel good show, Like it's I don't know why I
s S would stand for right and just, but I
I have wet dreams of imagining her coming to like
a show and just every Like I've thought about what

(01:45:43):
I would do if I knew she was coming to
scoop Fest. I would go through the back like chats
like the discords and the Facebook messages everybody, my wife's
gonna be there, and you all to fucking just go
over the top.

Speaker 3 (01:45:54):
I will pay you afterward. I'll buy drinks at the bar. Everybody,
just act like I'm a fucking big deal for a
minute and just let me feel like big shot.

Speaker 4 (01:46:00):
I just really wanted to think it's important if I
don't have fifteen people around me.

Speaker 3 (01:46:04):
At all times.

Speaker 5 (01:46:04):
Yeah, yeah, I want ever to ask for fucking autograph change,
come back.

Speaker 3 (01:46:10):
And ask again. It'd be great. I hope that would
be the best.

Speaker 1 (01:46:14):
No, That's why I could never trust this group of fans,
because if I ever told this group of fans, hey,
my wife's coming, please make me feel like a big shot,
they would ruin that shit so fast for just the
glory of being the one who fucking reachs.

Speaker 3 (01:46:28):
I'd love you. Yeah, yeah, Jim will give you if
you do it. I will love you forever. If you
don't you when you.

Speaker 1 (01:46:35):
Up something that I think is really important, like if
you ever get to meet podcast hosts out in the wild.
We are just not inherently famous right like we're doing content.
We've done it for eight years. We happen to have
thousands and thousands of people who we get to be
part of their week and we're in their head, and

(01:46:55):
like we get to be part of their lives and
they've developed a parasocial relationship with us. We don't get
to experience that though, like we never do.

Speaker 3 (01:47:03):
Well, that's the parasocial part that is, And like it's
so like for us.

Speaker 1 (01:47:09):
It's hard for me sometimes to think of pod therapy
as bigger than the four of us in this room. Sure,
sometimes the only thing I want to do with pod
therapy is hang with my friends.

Speaker 3 (01:47:17):
Which is I think all you can do.

Speaker 5 (01:47:19):
I think that's all anybody can do if you're making
something that's going out. I genuinely don't think that people
have the cognitive ability to understand it. I know that
I don't, and I've never spoken to someone that I
was like, this person gets it. This person understands precisely

(01:47:39):
how many eyeballs are on them at all times and
really is just in the flow of it.

Speaker 3 (01:47:46):
And even people that I've I have been around in
my career.

Speaker 5 (01:47:50):
Enormous stars, right, You're hugely successful people that everyone listening
to this show has heard of, and they're just doing
the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:48:00):
We're all just doing the same thing.

Speaker 5 (01:48:01):
There's one show business and we're all just working through
and we're all just doing that thing.

Speaker 1 (01:48:06):
Yeah, and that's true on the macro level, and we
also truly do exist on a micro level. Certainly, we
do not go to a bar and somebody goes, oh
my god, I've heard of pod therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:48:15):
It's not that big of a ding. So when we
get like, if you're ever.

Speaker 5 (01:48:19):
Maybe a couple of times a month, oh wow, I
get a couple of times a month of someone has therapy, right, yeah, yeah,
I'll get a couple of times a month someone has.

Speaker 3 (01:48:29):
You know, Best of Las Vegas, Jim Jovin. You have
to let me say the thing that happens a couple
of times a month. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:48:37):
If someone says something to them about something that I
do and they go, oh, I've heard of that.

Speaker 7 (01:48:42):
Oh yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (01:48:43):
That's that's all I'm talking about.

Speaker 5 (01:48:45):
Uh, the recognized thing has happened to me a handful
of times, but that doesn't happen.

Speaker 6 (01:48:50):
So it is.

Speaker 1 (01:48:51):
It is one of the most flattering things in the
world for me. When at an event somebody says something nice,
or if somebody mess you on discord or messages to
the show and says, hey, I genuinely appreciate it. Here's
why I like what y'all do. Or if I've had
people at scoopes so pulled me aside and said hey, Jim,
and they're always really polite about it. They're like, hey, buddy,

(01:49:13):
I don't want you to feel cornered. I don't want
you to feel like obligated.

Speaker 3 (01:49:15):
To talk to me. But I do have some thoughts.
I love your show, right, I love the show. I
love what you do.

Speaker 6 (01:49:21):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:49:22):
I've had people like kind of pull me aside and
say even just very endearing things of like hey, Bud,
I sense a certain character. Yeah, I sense a character
that you play on the show. I think sometimes that's
for me and I appreciate you. And here's why that
was helpful for me during a hard time. And like, wow, man,
that means the world to me, Like, thank you so much,
because like I'm not a celebrity, right, I'll never hear

(01:49:44):
that again. And so I'm a big fan of like
giving people their flowers while they can smell them.

Speaker 3 (01:49:48):
Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
Just some general advice from my chair is kind of
echoing Nick. Like at our level, it means the world
to hear something nice, you know, to like see like,
I'm sure I remember Whitney. I remember seeing a picture
of Whitney at last year's Jacob's Whiskey Barbecue, Okay, and
she was taking a picture with Scoopy Scoopy jest Chess,
who was wearing a Pew Pew Texas shirt good and

(01:50:10):
had a little hand figurine on her finger, and she
was grabbing Whitney's titty.

Speaker 3 (01:50:16):
Great.

Speaker 1 (01:50:17):
And I remember seeing this picture and I went to Whitney.
I was like, oh my god, this looks like so
much fun. And Whitney's first words were, she asked permission to.

Speaker 3 (01:50:23):
Grab my titty.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
That's a really good point, shoe just for everybody permission
ask Whitney's permission.

Speaker 3 (01:50:35):
She will let me. You just assume you can grab
our titty. Policy is a shall grant policy? Yeah yeah,
I do have to check. Yeah, yeah, you have to check.

Speaker 1 (01:50:45):
I remember Whitney just being like over the moon that
like this random chick grabbed her titties.

Speaker 3 (01:50:52):
And was wearing a shirt and was just she was
so thrilled about it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:55):
So anyway, just but my last thought on that is
just it means the world to us to feel like
real human skilled something.

Speaker 3 (01:51:00):
In all seriousness, though, I think you should ask permission
before grabbing Whitney's.

Speaker 5 (01:51:05):
Death number one, specifically, only grab Titney's. There's a Patreon
level where you don't have that you could achieve permission.

Speaker 4 (01:51:16):
There's there's always a number. Of course, all of this,
all of this is leading up perfectly to my point.

Speaker 7 (01:51:24):
Go ahead, seriousness, he said, yeah, because.

Speaker 4 (01:51:27):
Like it's I I don't for a second think that
Whitney's experience joining the show was anything compared to the
three of ours. Okay, yeah, you mean because I have
never once in the entire seven years of doing the
podcast been concerned, well no pre Whitney about anybody being

(01:51:54):
rude or disrespectful or anything towards us. It wasn't until
Whitney he started that now is like, oh now I'm
paying attention to Shift on Discord.

Speaker 3 (01:52:05):
Yeah, then we became.

Speaker 4 (01:52:06):
Because then it's like, because like it's a different thing
I think for somebody to make comments about I mean,
there's been times where somebody has said something to you, Jim,
and and we or the moderators have come in and said, hey,
I get that you're joking, but let's just dial it
back a little bit. Yeah, but that happens almost never.

Speaker 3 (01:52:27):
Yeah, right, right, I think, And it's not something most
of the time that that happens.

Speaker 5 (01:52:30):
It is just a a lack of like, oh this
didn't this didn't translate the way you thought it was
going to trans Yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (01:52:38):
It's always with the best intentions. It's just it's because
you probably wanted it to.

Speaker 1 (01:52:44):
Yeah, Like, that's Nick, you bring up a really good
point because like, and this is something that other people
moderators have talked to people in the discord about before.
They're like, hey, Nick, Jacob and Whitney talked to Jim
a certain way. They are literally his only friend. They
can do that, and like that's part of the fun
of the show. That's a special chemistry of the show.

(01:53:07):
Jacob throws poker chips at his face live.

Speaker 3 (01:53:10):
He got hit.

Speaker 1 (01:53:11):
It wasn't pretending to get hit. He got smacked in
the face. Yeah, and they're gonna get a beer afterward.
It's fine, but we have to be mindful that, like
he's not our punching bag, Like that's part of the joke. Like,
you're absolutely right, but like, and I see your point
there too. When Whitney joined. I think we all felt like,
all right, but everybody tread lightly here like she's not

(01:53:33):
you can't do that to her, Like she's special, she's
kind of our baby.

Speaker 3 (01:53:37):
Don't fuck around with Whitney. And everybody's always been really
sweet to you.

Speaker 5 (01:53:40):
I think for the most part, everybody's ever you hilarious
that you all thought that Jacob did not feel that.

Speaker 3 (01:53:48):
We always thought to need to protect you.

Speaker 5 (01:53:50):
I did think about the fact that Whitney was on
the show. Yeah you were aware of it came to
uh being mean to Whitney. I genuinely had the thought of,
like I.

Speaker 6 (01:54:04):
Have to yeah, no, yeah, if I'm not mean to Whitney,
then it's yeah, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 5 (01:54:12):
Like if I don't like Whitney's just episode, you're being
a bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:54:18):
Yeah, but he just calls.

Speaker 1 (01:54:21):
But this goes back to the idea of why podcasts
I think are so special, because there is this pick
up on the culture of like, Okay, I know this
dynamic between these four people, and like I am a listener,
I align with one of the hosts more like my
personality aligns with one of those people more.

Speaker 3 (01:54:35):
But when I meet them in person, it is tricky.

Speaker 1 (01:54:38):
Sometimes because you just want to jump in because you
feel like you've known them all along, and it is
a little it's like jumping onto one of those walk
those moving stair like uh walkways at the airport, where
you feel like, oh shit, like I I want to
walk at this speed, but like I'm not quite at
that speed. I've noticed that before where people have jumped
in with me at scoop Fest with a joke that

(01:54:58):
like plays off of something we we're just doing or something,
and I would have totally seen that joke coming from Jacob, Yes,
because I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:55:06):
Used to Jacob. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:55:09):
We're just doing the show, right, I'm just doing the show.
And so when Jacob picks up another bit that like
I'm used to, I'm like, oh, yep, got it. Somebody
else will pick it up and be like, oh Jim
this that, and I'm like oh, and like I'll start
I'll stab.

Speaker 3 (01:55:21):
Her for a second, and they I see the horror
in their face, like I'm so sorry. I really like you.

Speaker 5 (01:55:26):
I'm saying I'm trying to rip you because like I
thought we were buddies, and I'm like and I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:55:30):
Like reassuring them, everything's great, You're fine, I'm sorry. I
just I just don't have a mental model for you yet.
You're impersonating Jacob right now in a interaction, and I
get why you're doing that, right, Like that comes from
a good place. But it is a unique dynamic.

Speaker 5 (01:55:44):
So and it is people people have talked to me
over the years. It's just yeah, and they just express it,
and they express it very eloquently. It is I know
you very well, right, you don't know who I am, right,
And that is a weird relationship, yeah, because you're like
I'm in your ear holes hours and hours like whatever

(01:56:05):
it is.

Speaker 3 (01:56:05):
And like you feel like you have a sense of camaraderie, yes,
with the four of us. Cool I do.

Speaker 5 (01:56:13):
And and honestly, I'm thrilled that you have that sense
because that's that's what we want, what we're going for,
that's the goal. Yes, So like I'm really happy when
people people come to me apologetically with that.

Speaker 3 (01:56:25):
And and I always say, like, no, no, that is
that is the thing.

Speaker 5 (01:56:29):
The thing is you're listening to this, because it would
be silly for me to do this without anybody listening
to it. That would be real weird. Yeah, but like
I am doing this thing. I know what it is
like you're listening to it. Yeah, that's great. I'm I
want you to listen to it. I want people to
listen to it. It's why, it's why we do these things.
So when they come up to me they say, I

(01:56:50):
know all these things about you, I go, that's great,
but I and and now tell me about you.

Speaker 3 (01:56:56):
Right, this is wonderful. I'm actually interested because you.

Speaker 5 (01:56:59):
Don't want to have a thing that I can tell
you that you're going to be interested in or don't
know about me already.

Speaker 3 (01:57:05):
So let's hear it. What you got. I can't wait.
You're a You're a dentist. What the fuck is?

Speaker 5 (01:57:15):
That's amazing to me because that's just another world to me,
Like I know how to get on stage and how
to talk to people and talk on microphones and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:57:25):
Cool know anything about It's.

Speaker 7 (01:57:27):
Hard to hear all the different things people do, whether
it's hobbies.

Speaker 5 (01:57:31):
I'm like, oh my gosh, we want to hear about
people we want and like. For events like scoop Fest,
I want to say very clearly, these are events for you.
These are events for you to come up and talk
to us and and and like for us to have
these interactions like that's we want to do that. We

(01:57:52):
want to have the event so that that people can
can share experiences with each other. And we want to
be a part of that as well.

Speaker 6 (01:57:58):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:57:58):
We we want to be we we want to be
included in the in the in all of it. And
uh so, yeah, we want to be part of that. Yeah,
if you see me out in public, be cool. Yeah, yeah,
come talk to me.

Speaker 1 (01:58:10):
I want to hear from you. Announce yourself, tell us
you listen. I listened to your one of your shows,
Game the show, so we kind of know where you're
coming from. And then hey man, you know, give us
a feel because we never know if you're gonna be
like I've heard your show and I fucking hate you.

Speaker 3 (01:58:22):
You know, like that could happen.

Speaker 1 (01:58:23):
So it's nice to hear you say like, I've listened
to the show, I really like it. Great, Okay, good,
Now I know where we stand and then we're where
we can talk right and be really natural. So don't
don't be afraid to talk to people, don't be afraid
to connect. It really means a lot and I'm excited
for that.

Speaker 5 (01:58:37):
And also, you're gonna know instantly if it's a bad time, right,
you're gonna you're gonna know if you see gentlem at
a restaurant with his sitting around with his kids, don't
bother somebody with That's a good general rule for anyone.

Speaker 3 (01:58:50):
No, I'm sorry, you're wrong. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:58:53):
That's when you make a deal out of it. You're
trying to impress your show. Oh yeah, yeah, okay, let
me go. There's a correct move. Yeah yeah, there's an
absolutely correct move where you just act like I am
Brad Pitt and you walk up and go, I am
so sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:59:09):
I never do this.

Speaker 1 (01:59:11):
You Jim from bod Therapy, Jim will yell at you.
He's gonna make us see, I'm gonna make it seem
like you've just overset us. Yeah, I'm like, excuse me, peasant,
I'm here with my family.

Speaker 3 (01:59:22):
But that's part of the bit.

Speaker 1 (01:59:24):
You'd be like, I, of course you, I am sorry,
Yes exactly, it's part of the bit. And he's like,
oh my god, your family so lovely. I'm so sorry.
Can I buy your meal? You know, like I'll still
pay for it.

Speaker 3 (01:59:34):
You don't have to actually do that, but.

Speaker 1 (01:59:36):
Like, you know, just I'll be like, of course you
can popper you should you've bothered me anyway, We're gonna
take quick break and when we come back, we're wrapping
up the show.

Speaker 3 (01:59:45):
We're skipping trivia because the time we are anonymous. Anonymous,
you got your money's worth to day you did.

Speaker 1 (01:59:52):
You're listening about there, but it turns out all I
have to do is ask us to talk about ourselves.
Today's I was brought to you by Smitty scoof Mason Miller,
Test Miller Viler, Team, Paris t Monico, Oscar Swanrose, Hannah, Marie,
Emma Kain, Myra and Sam Cone. And if you'd like
to sponsor the show, become a therap producer patre dot.

Speaker 3 (02:00:12):
Com slash therapy.

Speaker 1 (02:00:13):
All right, as we wrap up this show, we want
to remind you go to patreon dot com slash therapy
and you can get our extended show in its advertisement
free a day earlier, as well as enjoy our live chat,
discord community and our sporadic deep dives interview skill shares
research around of Saint Rance. As this episode is airing
the week of Scoop Fest to the general public on Thursday,

(02:00:35):
to the Patreon audience on Wednesday, I have released on
Monday of this week through our Patreon the crackt a
link to a YouTube video that I have created which
goes through a deep dive FBI report on political assassins
and the virology of them, and specifically about the Charlie
kirkshooting and how mental health practitioners can deal with this

(02:00:59):
and do.

Speaker 3 (02:00:59):
Better with this.

Speaker 1 (02:01:00):
So really deep dive, really hardcore science, deep deep deep
stuff that's at patreon dot com slash therapy.

Speaker 3 (02:01:08):
So you got that through your new connection with the FBI.

Speaker 1 (02:01:10):
Right ever since I've joined them, which I'm excited to
be a part of. So yeah, if you are interested
in this kind of stuff and our our mainstream talk
today about some of the details of this kind of
picked your curiosity.

Speaker 3 (02:01:22):
Patreon dot com slash.

Speaker 1 (02:01:23):
Therapy, you can hear me go on a thirty minute
YouTube video with visuals deep dive and.

Speaker 3 (02:01:29):
If you've ever been like, what does Jim look like?
Now you can see patreon dot com slash therapy. But
we've got some new friends to the therap party, Nick,
who is new to our community. We got a new
fair appal bad a Emily. Hell yeah, Emily's bad And
it just clicked, like I just realized that must badass Emily.

Speaker 1 (02:01:48):
Yeah, that's what that means or bad attitude. I just
got that Ba Barcas from the A team was bad Yeah,
so I never know.

Speaker 3 (02:01:58):
It could stand for bad speller. Oh there's that. That's
also okay.

Speaker 1 (02:02:04):
And we have a new their producer, Ellie O'Dare upgrade it.
Thank you, welcome back, el love you, that's so great
to have you. And of course we'd like to think
the benevolent, revered, generous, and flagrantly pro therapy diehards who
love you all so much they give till it hurts
that there are partners Dirty B and Pikett. And we'd

(02:02:27):
like to thank our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati,
members of the fan Club that their producers, thank you,
Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Junior, Mint, Smitty Scoop, Richard
Fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Leon Cassab Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain,
Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Sammy Scoop, Slurpy Kaye, motherfucker, Ben Stanley,

(02:02:49):
slapping your face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Biler, t Mike
helm Oscar swanros Paris A Sonny Boy, Darren Cunningham, Lib
Sandra Mcwoffle Team Monica, Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop, Heyo, Hanna,
Marie Andrew Ling, Mead, Emma Tonka and Pony Soprano Alina Coded,

(02:03:09):
The Thelorean Guy, Brady Malay, Chick Chick, fil Atio, Gabriel, Adame,
Sean Sutherland, Max the Ginger, Scoop, Chad mag Adam, Warren Inca,
The Prince, Sam Cone big A, do crimes and welcoming
Ellie o'dair and.

Speaker 4 (02:03:25):
If you would like to do this episode uncut and unedited,
no get back in the closet and enjoy our spontaneous
side projects, go to patreon dot com Slash come out
and thank you for Sporting mental Health.

Speaker 1 (02:03:37):
That's all the time we got for this week, says
we want to thank our Landlords, s J and the Luckas,
and we'd like to think those.

Speaker 3 (02:03:44):
Of you contributed to our show today. We do appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (02:03:48):
Remember pot Therapy isn't something you should keep all to yourself.
Shut the episode with the world tag us on the socials.
When you do, it's at pot Therapy guys on Instagram,
threads and Twitter, and at slash pot Therapy on faceboo
with the Blase guy.

Speaker 3 (02:04:00):
Don't forget about all the.

Speaker 1 (02:04:02):
Extra goodest Patreon dot com slash the do you want
some of a question with the show?

Speaker 4 (02:04:07):
Ask anonymously a pod therapy dot that's email us at
potsarep you guys at gmail dot com or click the
link in the episode description to be taken to our
anonymous Google forms.

Speaker 3 (02:04:16):
I'm Nick Tangment, I'm Jim. Thanks and we'll see you
for your appointment next week to see you all at scoop,
best you at the Cone, See at the Cone.

Speaker 5 (02:04:28):
I saw that bit and I was like, this is great.
I love that we're co opting see you at the Bowl.
Oh no, it came from a Donnelly's story. It was
see you at the Throne.

Speaker 3 (02:04:39):
Oh, same idea, idea, same idea. Oh that's great, all right, everybody,
Bye bye

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