#407: Breaking up with Dorm Room Boyfriend, ADHD ASD OCD Comorbidity

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sun takes you have everything else? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
to think about it, he changes the air filters. You
know what worst does he do? Yeah? Exactly, yeah, I
do whatever is behind. I couldn't get to that day,
which knocked that out.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Keep out of the way. From faculous Las Vegas, Nevada.
This is pod Therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
You can submit your questions anonymously at pod therapy dot
or email us at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com.
Wow broadcasting from the Hot Supple nineteen year old studio. Jim.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
That's Jim.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
That's wow.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
He's still too late to cancel this. Okay, how many
people who it is?

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Can I do this? Buckle in buddy?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
No, we got like a month of this the only.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Hot Supple fuck submission. I have your father's idea more
in my life.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Oh no, in my mouth, Jesus, that's come all right.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I don't think the consequence. I don't remember saying it.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
I don't remember you saying I think it was the idea,
but then Jim took it and ran with it.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
I feel like a I generated that's right, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
I've been fucking spoof. Oh Ai drops Ai. Oh no,
we don't want to open that doors box.

Speaker 5 (01:29):
Scared Gym away from pot therapy is you start sucking
around with a but I will have a panic attack.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Do not do that.

Speaker 5 (01:36):
Patroon dot com slash therapy, you can hear all about
Nick's landscaping adventure where yeah, that was exciting, that was
actually quite the tail and I am.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
Your largest Africans.

Speaker 5 (01:47):
You hear about my esthetic adventure as I peep at
my beautiful nails. Jim's looking pretty, so come check that out.
Patreon dot com slash therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Also where you could purchase uh the episode ted or
the naming of the studio just before I get in
there and shut it down, because I want to emphasize.
I want to emphasize this as soon as I say
what this studio is, I want to emphasize this is
not me saying yeah, no, no, this was a writer

(02:16):
you paid money to that name the studio.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
I've sponsored the studio for the day. Okay, just coming
to you from Gym's gaping asshole. This is pod therapy.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
I just I want to emphasize that in case this
is anybody's first episode.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Oh yeah, we need to sometimes assume that that is
the thing.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Actually, sorry everyone, I'm just gonna I'm gonna read you this,
but coming to you, coming to you, coming to crop,
Jim escaping, caping, gaping, asshole, asshole.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Indeed it was gaping.

Speaker 5 (02:53):
Patron dot com slash therapy. We have a huge library
of deep dives, gill shares, research explanations, all sorts of
really cool stuff. There is a new segment that's going
to be coming out that's a little bit more news
and current events related. That's gonna be dropping the Monday
after you hear today's episode, and it's gonna be on

(03:16):
A situation is going on the Supreme Court of the
United States right now where conversion therapy, which is sort
of that you know, pray the gay away fix, you know,
gender and sexual identity stuff, is being discussed in Supreme Court,
and so it has huge implication.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Believe every possible.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
A good time to go back and rewatch the movie
but I'm a Cheerleader, Go back find yourself a movie
I think it's from the early two thousands. It's called
but I'm a Cheerleader, and it is about this, Oh,
it is about a high school cheerleader being sent to
uh pray the gay away camp. Yeah, yeah, so this,

(03:55):
I mean, then they do it in a it's not
it's not exactly funny. I mean, there's comedic parts to it,
but it's also dealing with a serious topic, right, Oh,
the job of exploring the confusion okay that people feel,
you know in the you know, you're telling me to
change something that I don't know how to change.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I didn't make this decision in the first place, and
you're telling me to change my mind and I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
What you mean. That's cool, that it's good. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:26):
So the deep dive is is I think, really really timely.
We get into the Supreme Court case and explain kind
of the odds and ends of it. We get into
what is conversion therapy. We go through the history of
conversion therapy in America and when the band started erupting,
and what the consequences of those bands were, which you
you'd think on its face good, but they they had

(04:47):
a lot of unintended consequences. And that's what's bringing this
back to the Supreme Court. And so if you get
into the deep dive, it really is interesting because you'd
think that the the obvious answer to this is no,
just keep the bands in place. That's a good thing.
But the bands have had huge enormous bad consequences on
pediatric mental health care and have fiddled with all sorts

(05:07):
of things. So getting into the weeds of this, it
is really really interesting stuff. It's very nuanced, it's very complex,
and it's I think of really timely deep dive. So
check it out patreon dot com slash therapy. It will
air the following Monday.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
It's so maddening that the idea that the courts and
legal people are trying to make.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
More and more laws and rules.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Governing this, right when it seems clear to people who
are in and around it, the answer is less rules, right,
answer is less government dealing with this because it's it's
not it's never virtually never a one solution fits all
type Scenarioly, yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:47):
And that was exactly the backlash because like we actually,
healthcare already self regulates, it is inclined to do only
what is best practices and evidence based, and it is
accountable when it causes harm, and we already have that
system built, right, But when state legislators get in there
and ask to you know, stamp little micro regulations, and
on healthcare disciplines, you create all sorts of unintended give
me waves.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, and you also open.

Speaker 5 (06:09):
Up the door to okay, so if one party can
do that, the other party can.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Of course.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
Now they can create bands like no Woke Therapy, right, and.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Like what's that?

Speaker 5 (06:17):
Whatever the fuck they decide it is, you know, whenever
they write it down, So lots of really nuanced things.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
That being said, banned on the run is still an
excellent song. And on the run, oh never mind, Okay,
you talk to me out of it.

Speaker 5 (06:30):
We've got some great questions for today's show, and we
are leading off the order today with afraid of roommate
from college Gal. Hey, Jim, this letter is specifically for
you because I am a nineteen year old female.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
God damn it. She is a hot supper nineteen year old.
There it is Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (06:51):
And it's not creepy at all to hear you talk
about teenage.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
She is a hot, supple nineteen year old. How about now?

Speaker 5 (06:58):
Why she is a hot year old?

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Fuck? Whoever found it I have? It was a you? Yes,
oh I thought it was a school.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
No.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Other people brought it to me that I had already
pulled it already had They were like, hey, we got
the drop.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
I was like, I already have.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
I remember the context. I just remember you said it.
And Jacob and I just looked at each other.

Speaker 5 (07:21):
She has a hot supple nineteen year old in pure silence,
right because nobody say anything.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Just let it, let it get all the dr more
like he just said that, right, ye, God damn it.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
I'll tell you what we weren't talking about nineteen year olds. Yeah,
I think it was a whiskey.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
I don't know what it was. It was a whine.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Anyway, back to the letter, I have a real problem
that hopefully one of the.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Other hosts can offer some dcent advice on.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
I'm a sophomore in college and I've been with my
current boyfriend since my senior year of high school. He's
a year behind me and but we share most of
the same friends. He followed me to college, and now
we're living together in the same dorm room, and I
feel trapped. I know I made this choice, but things
are starting to get awkward and I don't know how
to get away. I know that he's abusive to his mother.

(08:10):
I've seen him yell at her and hit her. But
he's never been that way to me until now. The
other night, as we were moving around, I accidentally tapped
him in the balls. He became immediately enraged, screaming about
how much it hurt. I apologized and tried to comfort him,
and I thought that was the end of it. Later,
as we were getting ready for bed, he rammed his

(08:31):
knee up my ass as hard as he could and said,
that's what it feels like, bitch. I don't feel safe,
and now I don't know what to do. Is I'm
pretty sure the deadline for requesting a room switch has passed.
He knows I'm not happy. I've physically moved our beds
apart to opposite sides of the room, and he's started

(08:52):
trying to smooth things over in what feels like attempts
to gaslight me into believing things aren't as bad as
they are. Remember when I said we share the same friends. Well,
he's reached out to all of them already for advice,
saying things like she needs to understand that couples fight
and we need to work through this if we're going
to get married and have a mortgage in children. That's

(09:14):
not what I signed up for at this age.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Just yesterday he.

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Actually did propose, and I told him no, and that
I wanted to go to church to think and pray
about everything that's happened. Once again, he got angry and said,
we don't believe in that shit. We don't go to church.
I feel like I have no one I can turn
to since he's already talked to all of our friends,
and I don't know what to do to defuse things

(09:38):
and get him away from me. I'll take any advice
you've got for diffusing the situation and getting out asap.
Thanks college gal.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Okay, who wants to take that first? She is a
hot supplement? There we go.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
Oh my gosh, Wow, the visceral reaction listening to that.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, Whitney was touching yourself inappropriate?

Speaker 4 (10:02):
Are supposed to share that.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
You don't learn. But that was a comment on Whitney.
That shouldn't count.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Nine year old.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Actually, that's a comment on It shouldn't count. Is the
drop that I want?

Speaker 1 (10:24):
God damn it, it's better now right.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
No, I can't believe colleges allow I know co ed dorms.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Like, okay, women in college is going on around Okay,
they can't go to classes, okay, but they let them
sleep over.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
I am fine with it. Never mind every track I.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
Did wonder about that. That seemed very odd that they
will let them share a room. I don't know about.
I mean, so let's say.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
That's not that's not that moment.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
No, okay, that's not really going to a Christian college.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
But there are a lot of colleges that do this now.

Speaker 5 (11:03):
But it seems like this is such a predictable problem,
and I could see the university being we just don't
do that. Yeah, the potential for domestic violence or all
sorts of weird stuff or allegation like we just don't
you know, like you can have guests in your room
or whatever. At least then you're making that choice. But
I don't know, I agree with you. I feel like
it's it's a little bit ill informed.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, well let's okay, so let's you know, I don't
know anything. So it's all like through the college you
both are assigned to the storm room. My first thought was,
if you go talk to someone at the uh, you know, housing, Yeah,
I was gonna say rubbish, I don't know, like in

(11:43):
the main like, yeah, housing department, I would say, going
to talk to them and telling them, hey, and if
you're work, because sometimes you know, you hear like uh,
victims of the domestic violence not want to like make
things a bigger deal than they are or like it's
it feels like opening a can of worms. Like if
I go tell someone, what are the consequences if they

(12:06):
don't believe me? And they still confront him and now
I'm still stuck in this room with him, like after
they've like talked to him. I said, you know, I
just imagine what I would be thinking in this situation.
I guess when I'm sharing that, I mean, I get
that there would probably be worries and concerns. But I
think even if you approach it from maybe to start
with a hypothetical situation with the housing department saying, hey,

(12:28):
I know we're past we're probably past the deadline of
changing rooms. But if there were a situation where someone
was scared of their roommate they were living with and
there was potential for like further harm, what are my options?
Because I would I would bet money there is a
stipulation regarding all domestic violence, and the.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Way Whitney just said it, I want you to pay
attention to the way that she just said it. June,
don't don't start with, uh, you know, I'm scared, I'm
being abused. Don't start with any of that. Really, do
start with what would the options be, right, hypothetical if this,
you know, if something like this were happening, if someone

(13:08):
were scared for their safety because of their roommate, what
would their options be going through you and the I
say that only to say that, like sometimes people's handling
of these situations.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
I wouldn't do them.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah, that's it. That's it.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Here's the thing too, there's there's no deadline for personal safety.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
No, it doesn't matter what the housing deadline is.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Now I think because here's here's what I would do in.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
A situation like that.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
If I was going to go, I would explain, I
don't feel safe. What are you going to do about it?

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah, Because from the university's perspective, if I if I'm
saying I don't feel safe and you do nothing, then
now whatever happens is on you.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
I take it one step further. I wouldn't say I
don't feel safe. I would say I've been attacked. I've
been I've been physical. Uh, attacked, uh, and I am
not safe.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
I would be one I would take.

Speaker 5 (14:07):
I would start with square one year suggestion of let's
start with a hypothetical, Hey, what are the options, and
then if if I wasn't getting good answers to that,
then I would probably escalate it to what Nick just said. Okay,
so this is not hypothetical. I do not feel safe
with my roommate. I don't want to get into the details,
but there has been an incident and I need, you know,
some kind of relief, and if they still weren't responsive,
then I would probably escalate it to what you just said. Okay,

(14:28):
I'm going to describe the incident to you. There has
been a physical, you know, action that has taken place.
But like I would, I would have a progressive strategy
with that.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
And hopefully you run into somebody that step one they go,
oh yeah, let's get you out of there.

Speaker 5 (14:40):
What do we think about the nuance of a relationship
in which this has never happened. We've been together for
a while and the context of boyfriend doing this is immature,
and but like it's different than other kinds of of

(15:00):
putting your hands on somebody, Like it's super immature. It's him, like,
you know, doing this reprisal thing, like you hurt me first,
I'm hurting you back. None of this is justified, but like, contextually,
do we feel that there's some nuance to this relationship
or at large the reaction to this incident asking this person,

(15:21):
because I mean, she's the person's the writer, College Gal
is entirely within her rights to just say I just
don't want to be with him anymore. We're done, right,
like that was his hot red. There we go as
a hot supple nineteen year old. I want her to
have what she needs in life.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
One of you fucking talk like you You can't just
let me be out there and just say things, because
then it's gonna be a fucking drop. So I'm entirely
on college Gal's side that if College Gal says I
am done with this and I do not need to
take this into consideration, I do not need to look
at the nuance.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
I don't need to look at the situation. You overstepped
and we're done. I'm fine with that.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
I am too, And I think this is I think
this is an example of there are like three or
four different things going on in College Gal's head and
one of them, And I'm making an assumption here, but
one of them.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
As you said, you've been with this guy since high school.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
This might also be college goals, first big breakup that
she has had to kind of facilitate in life. This
might be the first big relationship breakup that that she's
doing in life. So that, on top of all of
these other things, it sounds to me a little bit
like she's like, I genuinely just don't know what to do.

(16:37):
I haven't had to do this before, and now I'm
having to do this under these circumstances, which is making
this even worse.

Speaker 5 (16:42):
God, that's so hard. A breakup's already really hard, that's
my point. Now you've got to do this in a
dorm room, which is the size of a closet, right,
and you've got to sit down with your boyfriend and
be like, look, I don't want to be together anymore.
I don't want to be with you. I'm looking for
options to get out of here. But I don't want
to tell you that up front, because you've been violent
at me right, Like, I don't know what you're doing.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
All of their friends are intertwined, which I've worked with
clients who struggle with that when they split from someone,
and the devastation that can be felt when your friend
group that you've been close with fore I'd guess at
least two years, they're maybe hearing his side of the
story first. You're worried of wondering if they're like picking
his side over yours, and you won't know that until

(17:21):
you split. Like really, not that I want you to
go around telling your business to your friends, but I
do wonder when you say, like, oh, he's gone to
them and told them things already, Like.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Have you talked to them?

Speaker 4 (17:36):
What's going on? Like if any of my friends came
to me and told me that, I'd be like what
the fuck? Like fuck him?

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Also, like you, you're asking about the nuance and everything
of it. Honestly, I think that's what he's already doing
in his head. He's like, well, I didn't hit her.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
I just you know, my knee. I did this thing
with my knee.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
But in his mind, I didn't know it was that hard.
I just thought I did it.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I don't think it would hurt that much and whatever,
And like he's he's gonna say all of these stupid
excuses that don't mean anything that are just childish and stupid,
but that's what, you know. So the justification, I think
he's already doing the backflips to say like, well, I
wasn't violent.

Speaker 5 (18:17):
She hit me and then and if we asked him,
he might say, no, dude, she hit me in the
nuts on purpose, it wasn't. So like I'm pushing back
on this. I was wounded, you know, but I didn't,
you know, unlike and then.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
He's saying that justification, he's saying yeah to the friends,
and he's doing all these types of things.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
And part of what we're.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Trying not to do writer is tell you too that
in a few years you're gonna get away from from this,
and you're gonna get away from these friends, and you're
gonna get away from college and the whole scenario, and
none of it is gonna matter. Sure, So like the
part that is going to matter later on is this

(18:57):
relationship and if you're if you're scared in this relationlationship
and you want to get out and you feel trapped
in it, that's the part that's going to carry over
years from now, the part where it's like this person
in my English class didn't understand what was going on
and was a little rude to me about it. You're
just not going to give a shit.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
And honestly, if if your friends don't really understand this,
then they're not going to be long term friends anyway.
You're gonna You're gonna find new friends in a couple
of years. And this happens all the time, where like
your life circumstance change for one reason, you move away
or whatever happens, you're always going to be making new friends.
You're going to be introducing yourself to new people. So

(19:37):
don't and I realize that you know, for you in
this situation, it doesn't feel that way. It feels like
these are this is your support system. These people are
obviously very important to you. However, I just want you
to understand they're replaceable. Like you're gonna find other friends,
and you said that you've got you know, you talked
about like going to church and talking to people there.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
That's fine.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
If that's your word sports system is go there and
you know, and even just if you've got a few
people there that you can turn to and just say, hey,
this is a situation I'm in in this relationship, I
need out and I need somebody to help me. I'm
sure they would be more than happy to help you,
and you'll find new friends if it comes down to that.
Like I'll tell you your your boyfriend being mad when you

(20:21):
said I'm gonna go to church because he says, you know,
we don't believe in that.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
That's a weird thing to give a shit about.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
And I want you to know that that that I
want you to know that's a weird thing to give
a shit about. From his point of view, I am
my other podcast godless is like the second word and
the description of the podcast. Like, you know, if if
there is a proselytizing atheist out there, you know, it
certainly could be argued that I am one.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
If my wife came to me today and said, Hey,
I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Go to church, I'm gonna go to church, and i'm
gonna I'm gonna hang out at church and i'm gonna
I'm gonna see what it's got.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Going on, I'd be confused. Sure, I wonder where it came.

Speaker 4 (21:04):
From, curious because you care about her, but not from a.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Like I wouldn't be upset about it. It wouldn't like
in a way I would be confused.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
You know, I'd have questions, clearly, but it wouldn't be
what are you doing that for?

Speaker 1 (21:20):
That's that's not who we are, honestly, and also that
we believe we don't believe. That's weird.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
And come on, college girl, college gal, three and a
half out of the four atheists in this room, I'll
say that that's weird.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, I was going to say when Peter and I
first started dating, he was already on the path to like,
you know, non believer, but I was still in it.
I was like, no, you know, I'm still Christian all
this stuff, and he was just like, okay, cool, Like
no problem, We're all good.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
I want to jump in for a second because I
want to Okay, so I'm about to say a lot
of things that are a lot of assumptions, and so
what I'm about to say, college Gal, I want to
be very uh sent about because I'm about to get
mean about your boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Your father's has been in there.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
That is a fact, So just replace there you go.

Speaker 5 (22:08):
So there's a lot of clues here that I see
in a lot of young insecure men. So when you're
a young insecure boy and you have a girlfriend in
high school and it's going really good, and then she's
older than you, and then she gets out.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Of high school.

Speaker 5 (22:21):
First ice cold fear goes through your veins because it's like, oh,
my god, I have a girlfriend. She's in college among
the college boys. Now I'm this piece of shit little
kid high schooler. So you start to feel really insecure,
and then you're really possessive and protective of her. Right,
so then she's out there and you're skilled, she's gonna
rise up and be yeah, very possessive. Then it's like, oh,

(22:42):
there's so much evidence in this story that this guy
might be like that, which, again, not a shitty guy.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
He's just a kid, right, but like, this is a
very shitty guy. We might be a shitty kid.

Speaker 5 (22:52):
Like as as an almost forty year old man. If
I saw an eighteen year old boy like this, I
want to pull him aside and talk to him about insecurity.
I want to talk about toxic masculinity, because this is
something that a lot of young men can slip into.
But I see symptoms of that here, like even cohabitating
in the storm room. That seems like a step, and
it seems like a step of I need to get
her in my orbit.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
I need to keep it on her.

Speaker 5 (23:13):
We're together, and then like here we are having this conflict.
I'm going to all of our friends like, well, we're
gonna get married someday, we're gonna be together forever, and
like we're gonna have children and a mortgage. And she's
looking around going whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not where I'm
at in this. But he's like extremely possessive and like
using that as a control mechanism to be like, babe,
you can't walk away from me over this silly little thing.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
We have this huge future together. Yea.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
Now he's proposing to you and being like, let's just
get married. And then you're trying to go to church,
like we don't do that. That's not us where this
And it's just like there's all this effort to sort
of like contain her and limit her options and signal
the sense of bigness of like this is real, this
is huge.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
We're already.

Speaker 5 (23:52):
It's like, motherfucker, you were eighteen years old, like coming
from the evangelical tradition where I absolutely was inside of
this kind of bullshit, and this person doesn't you know,
doesn't ether us religious there you go a lot of people,
but like at that time, that insecurity as a young
person bubbles up and it causes a lot of attempts
to control the relationship, especially when there's a lot of

(24:14):
factors to be intimidated by, Like you're this brand new
college kid. Your girlfriend's older than you, Like there's a
natural intimidation. You get to college, you're this young guy
over where you look, everybody else looks like a grown
ass man, and like you're just you're feeling inferior. And
so just like all full mustaches, yeah right, full mustache,
full supple mustaches. So like you know, I just want
to point that outright, that this is I'm looking at

(24:37):
these clues, you know, weaponizing the marriage proposal, boycotting church,
keeping you away from friends, telling all the friends you
guys are gonna get married and have a mortgage and
have kid, and just like even living together. It all
seems very controlling, It seems very insecure. It seems like grabby,
please don't leave. I need us to be be real,

(24:57):
and then putting a lot of pressure on you to
sort of like if you walk away from this, all
of us are going to disagree with that, Like Oh
my god, all of that. They all see us as
a couple. I thought were getting married. You've signaled that
this is serious. You're weird if you walk away, and
just like, look, I don't think he's some fucking evil mastermind.
I think he's an eighteen year old fucking kid. Yeah,
And I just think he's insecure and emotional and scared

(25:18):
and inexperienced. And if I were in his life as
a counselor, we would be talking through, Hey, dude, why
are you doing what you're doing? Like this is the
kind of shit that guys do whenever they're possessive and
scared and insecure and trying to fucking like get their
woman in a cage because they're scared, just gonna get away.
And it's like, I don't want you to do that
at eighteen years old. If this chick loses interest in you,

(25:38):
and I think she needs to get out there and
date her own people, You need to date your own people,
if that's what it comes down to. But you guys
are acting like it's do or die, yes or no
right now right And that kind of insecurity driven relationship
is really really dangerous.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Now, Can I just add to that that, Yes, I
would agree with one hundred percent with everything Jim said.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
It seems like this boy is broken. Yes, yeah, he's
going with it.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
It needs to be worked on, and it's not your
job to fix it, not at all.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Is it uncommon for an eighteen year old guy to
need to work on some Yes, exactly exactly.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
I just don't want you to take any of this
advice and just be like, oh, yeah, I do see
these things that he needs to work on. Maybe I
can help him. No, maybe I'll no, no, no, no,
I think your job. Yeah, there's just a lot of
red flags here that I think it's. I think you're
I validate the way that you feel about this, because
if I was in that position, I'd probably feel the
exact same way, and I would not let things like

(26:30):
fear of losing friends or fear of being past the
deadline to move out in any way inhibit you from
exiting this situation.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Oh and just yo, like whatever, I was gonna say,
real talk, but that's not that's not the right word
for it.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Just got a practical talk which Jacob's pulling up a
Cherry's going to.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Let me flip this hat around, let me wrap with you,
uh youth practical talk. The college is a bureaucracy whatever,
well you didn't say.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
What college you go to.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
If it's a big big school or little school or whatever,
but whatever it is, it's some form of bureaucracy.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
And if you take.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Them a solution, you take them a problem and you
take them a solution. For instance, if you have a
friend that lives in a dorm by themselves, that you
don't think you'd mind being roommates with that friend for
a little while. If somebody has an apartment or whatever,
there is no rule at your university that is going
to force you to stay.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
In that dormer.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
They're not going to fuck around with They're simply no,
it doesn't matter if they whatever they want to do.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
There is no rule that is confining you to that.
Oh icee.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
You can still leave you and just fucking lee. You
can just go stay with some friends, go crash. You're nineteen.
This is the time. Who gives a shit? You're going
to crash on somebody's couch. You're you're hanging out in
somebody's guest bedroom. You're you're splitting a dorm room with
somebody else that you may or may not already know
that's okay. It seems scary. It's like a big step.

(28:02):
You're gonna realize one day that it's not that big
of a step.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
It feels really unknown and confusing right now.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
It feels big right now.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
After you do it, you're gonna go like, oh, this,
this wasn't just moving. Turns out isn't that big of
a deal. People move all the time. And you're in
a kind of a weird, kind of a transitional spot
honestly in life, because you're going from you know, and
that's part of the idea with college. You're going from
living with your parents presumably to then living in a

(28:35):
somewhat less controlled environment. But it's still a somewhat controlled
environment in college dorms, and it feels like you have
rules that are kind of governing what you have to
what you have to do, and telling you that you
can't do things. Those aren't really real, those rules don't
really exist.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
I think I appreciate you, know what all you shared, Jim.
I don't think you're wrong either. I'm glad to hear
college girls say that she'll take any advice for diffusing
and getting out a SAP. That's like my favorite line
and this this whole letter because piggybacking off what Jacob

(29:13):
was saying, That's kind of where my mind went, Like,
I get that you feel stuck, and that is so
real because your whole reality is in that shoebox that
you mentioned, like to your college dorm room. But you
can get out, whatever that means, and you are strong
enough to do that, and I would recommend Actually just
watched a true crime show about a college girl who

(29:36):
was murdered by her boyfriend who was who was didn't
live with her, but it goes through all these calls
that like this girl made to college campus police and
all these things, and I'm thinking about this here, not
to say that your boyfriend's going to do that, but
some things I took away from watching that is one

(29:57):
that when you do decide to leave that dorm room,
you can call your college campus police and they can
just escort with you. Yes, like they'll show up, they'll
just stand there, yep. And honestly a lot of those calls,
they were very willing to do that. And what stuck
out to me the most is that the girl who
was murdered, she I think felt very confused on how

(30:19):
serious to take it, because this was somebody that she
cared about, and I don't think any of us want
to believe someone we cared about would hurt us worse
or do something that extreme. It's like infathomable to us.
But it's always okay to overworry in situations like these.

(30:41):
And I don't mean to cause yourself anxiety and over worry.
But it may feel like, oh, that's too much to
do this, or do I really need to go to
the campus police to ask in this? Just just do it.
You know it'll it'll protect you. It makes it takes
that onus of diffusing the situation off of you, and
that is on them.

Speaker 5 (31:01):
I think it also gives an important reality check sometimes
to the other person to realize, oh, we are I'm not.
Nobody's gonna put me in cuffs right now. These guys
aren't mad Dog and me. They're being professional. But there's
clearly accountability happening all around me. And so I can
keep shouting from the rooftops this was no big deal,
but the system is helping me understand that this was

(31:22):
a big deal.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
And these are new adults.

Speaker 5 (31:24):
When you're in high school, it's like, oh, yeah, there's
almost no consequences for hitting your friend or doing something
like that, and it's like, no, you're over eighteen, now
that's assault.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
You go to prison. Like all it takes is this
kind of thing.

Speaker 5 (31:33):
So this is an important life lesson for everybody.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
I don't you didn't mention your parents here either, and
maybe that's because they're not super involved in your life.
So if they're not, then just ignore this.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
But oh, there might be on the other side of
the country.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
Yeah, they might be far. But if you are able
to kind of loop in one or both of your parents,
there's an adult, you older adult you trust who's not
you know, a hot, supple nineteen year old right now,
then I think this would be a good time to
reach out and just ask for imputter advice because sometimes
I think we assume, like a older adults don't understand

(32:07):
or they're like too far removed from these situations. I
don't know you're writing into us, so maybe not. But yeah,
see if there's someone you can reach out.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
You didn't say this, but maybe you're thinking this.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
I don't know if you're thinking that this is a
relationship that you would like to save.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Moving out and taking a little break from.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
It, oh distances.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, yeah, Like even if that's kind of your ultimate goal,
even if you didn't want to say that out loud
to us, which is fine, who cares. Yeah, that's this.
This is not This does not have to be anything
that you don't want it to be. It can just
be a I need to move out. I need to
to establish the way that I want to live as

(32:51):
an adult, because that's what you're figuring out right now.

Speaker 5 (32:53):
I mean, I have a kid almost this person's age,
and like, look, if i'm your father, I'm looking at
this and going, I think you fucking kids have been
at time the hip this whole goddamn time anyway, you know,
moving in together right out of high school, going to
college together, going to classes together. This young man is
like constantly latch to you. And if now he's fucking
proposing to you out of panic, if you're my daughter,

(33:13):
I'm like, I want you to get the fuck away
from him for a while. Oh I'm not telling you
to break up with his ass, but you guys need
some breathing distance. I want you to learn how to
fucking adult for a second, and I want you to
go to some classes alone. I want you to have
your own friendship circle. I want you to have a
little bit of space, go to church if that's what
you want to do, create your own little bubble. And
if you're a little insecure fucking boyfriend can't handle it,
then I think it's time for you guys to take

(33:33):
a break.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, and you know, I realized.

Speaker 5 (33:35):
You don't fucking get it. Okay, fine, but I don't
like anything I'm seeing here. Nothing about the story makes
you think, oh, how dreamy, this is such a cute story. No,
my generation, especially in the evangelical church, grew up doing
this shit and they all ended up terrible. Everybody ends
up having a lot of fucking issues. I don't like
the setup for this relationship anyway.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Also, movies, media, all these things can make us think that, uh,
this relationship might feel better after you kind of surmount
all of these obstacles that are happening right now.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
That doesn't really happen on the other side of that.

Speaker 5 (34:11):
Yeah, that feels good, But I don't know. I think
that you guys have a lot bigger things going on.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
So much that he chose to like do or change
like I am. I'm seeing a therapist I'm actively doing things,
like there'd be so much that would have to show
over long term to like, I don't know, make this
relationship and also growing up.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, and you bring up a good point.

Speaker 5 (34:33):
Most campuses have some kind of accessible mental health program
for the students. Yes, Sometimes it's hosted by a graduate
school where they're training therapy students. Sometimes they have a
wellness clinic on campus and every student gets X number
of sessions. Sometimes they have a community partners list that
helps out the students strong recommend their college. Gal is
at least for yourself, making sure that you have somebody

(34:56):
who's going to help you conavigate this, because we only
get so much information from little letter. I would love
for you to have a therapist in your life who's
like in the weeds, understands the nuance, and it's also
helping you sit down and process what you're feeling about this,
and can be very respectful of all of your wishes,
even if those change Monday to Tuesday. One day you're like,
I gotta get out of a SAP and the next
day you like, I love him, I don't want to

(35:17):
leave him. The holidays are coming. I want a therapist
on the ground to like help you navigate that. So
my number one recommendation is, at a minimum, please sit
down and talk to a counselor. It sounds like you've
got to make all these important fucking life decisions it's
got proposed to and ship, I think you should probably
be in counseling.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
So, also, as someone who has been both hit in
the nuts and need in the asshole, okay, okay, feel
the same.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Okay, assuming that they're not the same thing at all.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
They're like, when you got a knee to the asshole
the bulls yours?

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah they do.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Yeah, that hurt not as bad, right, right?

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, so he's not even a curate yeah, in his
pronouncements after he like throws a knee to your assholes, right, I.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Just can't fathom. I cannot fathom.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Oh so it's just a weird reaction. Yeah, just a
weird response, and also like the delayed response weird.

Speaker 5 (36:14):
I'm like, it's very little kiddish, it's immature, and.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
It's one of those things that you do.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Oh I could I can just imagine doing this as
like I can't imagine this is an as an eighteen
year old, but I can imagine this as a child.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, when you like come back to somebody later and
you're like, yeah, that's what it feels like like in
your head, that's going to go so differently than it went.

Speaker 5 (36:36):
Well, that's how you treat a sibling, right, Like your
sibling hits and then you're just putting that grudge in
the back of your mind and you're waiting for your
opportunity playing back you're talking earlier, and they're.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Like, Jesus, save this ship for later. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, anyway, all that's weird writer, Yeah, good luck with
this one.

Speaker 5 (36:51):
Definitely let us know how this turns out. Get us updates,
Go talk to a counselor, and put your safety first.
I don't think you're telling us I'm in I'm in
like threatening danger. But I think Whitney's also helping you understand.
You know what, when you start seeing red flags, believe them,
and I just go ahead and get some space.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Whoever you have or anybody you talk to that you
need to help. All you need to do is say
I don't feel safe and I need help.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
That's it. And whether it's the.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
Church or it's the university, university, whoever it is, parents.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
I guarantee when you say that, they will be like, Okay,
what do you need Yep, they're professionals. They know what's
at least we hope, so yeah, we really hope that,
we really hope that they're professionally. I talk to my
nieces and like one of my nieces in college, I
talked to her and she's like, oh, yeah, this this
happened on campus, and this was the school's reaction to it.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
And that's also just maddening.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
And I kind of wonder too, like if it's just
my experience as an administrator in healthcare that when somebody
says something, my immediate thought is Okay, I have this
information now. Yeah, And I never want to be put
in a position where something worse happen and they're like,
why didn't you do You had this information?

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, and you did nothing? Yeah I have so yeah,
that's exactly what bill.

Speaker 4 (38:06):
Campuses are like businesses, though, where they're like, oh, their
first thought might be how do I protect the university?

Speaker 1 (38:11):
No, I think campus.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
I think this is where they're like, their first thought
is how do I do as little work to deal
with this new issue as I possibly can't.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
They like to stay out of the news. Yeah, yeah,
it's true, just letting them know. Hey, I don't a
little mudg Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
But anyway, right, if the campus cops won't show up,
call the real cops.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
I called called just do what you need to do.

Speaker 5 (38:33):
I didn't realize pod therapy was crushing it in the
nineteen year old demographic. You know, I think we're sweeping
the nation's colleges. We should put together a college tour.
I think she is a hot supple nineteen a week.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
It's gonna be great.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
We're gonna take a quick break and when we come
back to her about.

Speaker 5 (38:48):
Autism and toddler aggression. You're listening to pod Therapy.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
Today's episode is brought to you by Smitty School, Mason Miller,
Tess Miller, Biler, t Harris, Team, go Oscar swanros Anna, Marie, Amma, Kaine,
Amyra and Sam Cone. And if you would like to
sponsor the show, become a therap producer Patreon dot com,
slash therapy. All right, Trivia this week a little bit different.
This is Followers Trivia Instagram followers. And I will be honest,

(39:17):
I did not come up with this idea myself. I
got this from another podcast I listened to Hammish and
Andy uh and they're very litigious, so okay, I just
want to make sure not so yes.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Good credit? Kay? Who has more Instagram followers? Oh god,
I've got no idea.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
And so there's going to be five this round, five
next round. You each get to guests on all. Oh okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
So keep tracking your own it's a fifty to fifty shot. Yep,
fifty fifty shot. Keep track of your own score.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
First one is up, wait like we're buzzing in.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
No, it just everybody gets one. Everybody's a fifty to
fifty shot.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Oh okay, here we go.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
First one is who has more Instagram followers? Debbie Gibson
or Gibson Guitars.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Who's Debbie Gibson?

Speaker 4 (39:57):
I don't know who that is?

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Fucking is she an actress? Little kissinger? Children in her thirties?

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Bro singer? Okay, the mall singers.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
It was.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
It was a fight between Debbie Gibson and Tiffany Jacob
knows what I do?

Speaker 4 (40:19):
Okay, sing me a song? She sings?

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Do it? No one can do that?

Speaker 5 (40:25):
All right, I'm going with Gibson Guitars because I don't
even know who this old bitch is.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
I'm going with Debbie because now I feel like that
this is a trick question.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
I think it's Debbie Gibson, Debbie Gibson. Yeah, I'll go.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
I'll go Debbie Gibson, Debbie Gibson four hundred and eighty
four thousand, Okay, Gibson Guitars two points.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Oh yeah, Debbie Gibson. Okay.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Next one Ford Motor Company or Francis Ford Coppola.

Speaker 5 (40:53):
Oh, Ford Motor Company. I think is going to be
paying for a lot of fucking Yeah. I feel like
I'm going to go forward.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
I'll say Ford as well.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
Uh Ford six point seven million, Francis Ford coppolawenty one thousand.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeay, that one, right, didn't seem like he was going
to be too active on the here, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Putting a lot of content out there.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Are your Francis Ford Instagram Google real quick to make
sure he was still alive, all right?

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Next one Army Hammer or the US Army.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
Oh jesus, he's got a bunch of Shita people.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
And there was that movie.

Speaker 5 (41:35):
There's a documentary called the House of Hammer or something. Yeah,
so I feel like he would have a lot because
of all the.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Kind I know.

Speaker 4 (41:42):
I'm going to pick Army Hammer.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Way, I'm the US Army.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
I think I'm going to stick to institutions because so
far that's been I'll stick to Army.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Okay, Army Hammer one million, US Army two point eight million. Yeah, institutions.
I'm doing really good. Zachary Levy, who's that? Uh? Director?

Speaker 3 (42:04):
No, he was a he's an actor.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
He was the zam was he played?

Speaker 4 (42:10):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (42:11):
Or Levi Strauss the brand, the ens again, I'm sticking.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
To the ive.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
Never heard of the first guy? Ye Strauss and Levi
is a worldwide like everyone wears Levi brand.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Uh, Zachary Levy one point four million? Okay, the next
sixty two point seven thousand.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
No social media for the fucking social man.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
She's whenever I go overseas, the everyone wears Levi like
Levi cap shirts. They wear it all the time. That's
maybe they don't need the social media.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
I guess not. John Stamos or Johnson and Johnson.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
Oh no, John Stamos.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Yeah, I want John sta Yeah, God damn that man.
Johnson and Johnson were both very hot.

Speaker 5 (43:01):
Yeah, John.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
The gram.

Speaker 5 (43:06):
I feel like he has done a.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Penis. Are you going for John Stamos Jacob, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
I was just watching you last night.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
And you're watching me. Yeah, that's weird. That's what I
heard was the toes.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
Obviously, this was the first thing. I was like, Jamies,
my little phone, flash light in your room.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Where'd you go with Jacob?

Speaker 3 (43:32):
I went, John Stamos, all right, word three for Stamos,
John Stamos four point three million. Yeah, Johnson and Johnson
one hundred and six.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Thousand, fuck you Johnson and Johnson. Job.

Speaker 5 (43:43):
So I only missed one on that I missed two.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
I guess four points.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
I like it in the lead ADHD, autism and Toddler aggression. Hey, Nick,
Jim Whitney, and doctor Smith. I have a couple of
semi related questions that I wanted to throw your way.
These are kind of long, so feel free to separate
them if it makes more sense. I'm an adult that
was recently diagnosed with ADHD. It's one of those things
I always felt like I probably had, but never cared

(44:09):
to seek out a proper diagnosis. Going through the process
of learning about ADHD and even trying out some medication.
I was also diagnosed with a few other disorders, including depression,
probably major depressive I don't even know social anxiety and OCD.
I was originally afraid these diagnoses would make me feel
labeled or stuck in a box, but it has actually
been extremely validating, especially since I've felt like I've had

(44:33):
OCD all my life but was afraid to bring it up.
I've even started some medicine that has had some serious
positive effects. I recently joined an ADHD support group that
my therapist started and recommended to me. At our last session,
we talked a bit about comorbidity and how other disorders
are commonly found in those with ADHD, specifically anxiety and OCD.

(44:54):
In the past, I've also heard ADHD referred to as
similar or adjacent to autism. This is one reason I
never sought out any diagnoses, because how am I supposed
to trust that we got the quote right one? I
was under the impression I was likely on the autism spectrum.
But could it just be ADHD and OCD?

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Could it be all three?

Speaker 5 (45:16):
I was hoping you guys could give some details around
this comorbidity stuff. How this comorbidity stuff works, specifically around autism.
I'm not sure if you've ever gone into a deep
dive into autism, at least recently, so I wanted to
give you guys a chance to hear My other question
revolves around my three almost four year old son. He
has always had a weird obsession with the bad guy

(45:39):
of a show or movie he's interested in. When we play,
he usually wants to be Rhino or Bowser when I'm
Spider Man or Mario, and he always ends up winning.
At first, I don't think much of this, but recently
it started to get more aggressive. It's not uncommon now
for him to just straight up punch me or his
mom in the face, sometimes multiple times. He'll kick and

(46:01):
scratch and show no remorse. Sometimes it doesn't even seem
like he's upset about anything. He just wants to hit us.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
It was driven.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
It's driven us all to tears. It has also gotten
worse since his mom and I separated, which I've suspected
maybe causing some tough emotions for him. I try to
talk to him about it, and sometimes he'll apologize and
tell me that he was angry or frustrated and now
feels embarrassed. But sometimes he does not care and just
tells me that he likes it. I've learned recently with

(46:32):
my recent ADHD diagnosis, that emotional dysregulation is a symptom
of ADHD, and I'm fairly certain his mom and I
both have it. Is it too early to look at
this aggression from that perspective? It's this normal for a
three or four year old boy. I don't want to
pathologize any normal childhood behaviors, but I also don't want
him to think it's okay to hit anybody. I'm terrified

(46:53):
he's going to hurt a kid he's playing with, even
though this has never been an issue so far. He's
usually very sweet with other kids. Do you guys have
any tips on how to handle this aggression or how
to stop it? Any healthy ways for a toddler to
work out his negative emotions. Talking to them doesn't seem
to help yet. Also, any thoughts on taking him to
some sort of behavioral specialist, Any specific methods or credentials

(47:16):
that I should look for. Do you think his mom
and I splitting up maybe causing him more turmoil than
he will admit? Thanks for making it through my rant
of a letter, and thanks for the advice. Also, Jim,
I loved the ADHD deep dive. I found it extremely
informative and would love more maybe one on ASD or
OCD sincerely, ray J Shark.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Of course he's only thirty minutes into it, that's sure.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
Yeah, this is a tough well, two tough ones. So
I guess do you just want to start with the
first question?

Speaker 5 (47:44):
So yeah, as I'm kind of looking at this macro,
I'm hearing a couple different questions. I'm hearing ray jsay,
what is the situation with comorbidity between ADHD, autism, and
OCD kind of getting into the weeds of how often
do these things overlap? And you know, do we see
this a lot? Because ray J is saying, look, I'm
definitely ADHD and I also have OCD, and then when

(48:06):
you pair those things together sometimes that looks like autism.
And so like you blend you know, these yellow and
red and you kind of get green and it's like,
oh shit, did I get that right? Or is it
yellow blue that makes orange yellow?

Speaker 1 (48:16):
And red is orange? Yeah? Whatever? Fuck you?

Speaker 4 (48:19):
So colors.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
I don't know how the shit works, but yeah, so,
like I can see that being the first question. I
think the second question is, Hey, my kid's going through this,
We're going through separation, I'm seeing this like violent stuff feedback.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
On that, you know, is it? Is it adjacent? What
do we think about that?

Speaker 4 (48:35):
Yeah, I guess the the blend. I always wonder this,
how how clients perceive like the neurodivergent spectrum of like
autism ADHD, because I do feel like socially we have
put them all together in a bubble, you know, like autism,

(48:56):
but to me, they're like, I don't know a good comparison,
and they're very different but in the same family or whatever, like,
so I don't know. It sounds like you're trying to
sort out what what are the differences? How do I
know what's what?

Speaker 2 (49:11):
And and fairness to everyone? The differences would be.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
What like if I didn't know, right, talk.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
To me like I didn't know and don't have a PHDH.

Speaker 4 (49:25):
I don't have a pH right just for pretenzies, right.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Which he might not in January.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
I win this thing, I mean anybody could really win
this thing, you know, So we don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Well because like I mean, autism is.

Speaker 4 (49:37):
Uh, like what's your perspective?

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Just I mean autism is a physical like it's a
genetic thing whatever whatever the word would be. And ADHD
is not as far as we know, So as far
as I know, as far as.

Speaker 5 (49:52):
I'll jump in a little bit in this because like, okay,
so first off is where the line is, Well it is,
it's a very blurry one. And so eighty HD and
autism are in a different kind of group when we
think about mental illness in general, because a lot of
these other things like anxiety and depression stuff like that,
they're like kind of temporary, right, and they blow through

(50:13):
your reality and then they may go away. With these
we consider them neurological, Okay, so we think of them
more as like the hardware of the brain probably producing
these symptoms, both of them, both of them.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah, they're actually in the same chapter.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
And they're really diagnosed through like behavioral things.

Speaker 5 (50:30):
Yeah, we tend to observe it in behavior And there's
some studies that kind of look at MRI data and
say that they can kind of start to squint at
it and see a difference, but really we're looking at behaviors.
And what's really interesting is that like fifty to seventy
percent of people that are diagnosed with ADHD would also
meet criteria for autism spectrum disorder.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
Yeah, but I thought.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Autism spectrum disorder required.

Speaker 5 (50:54):
A.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
I don't know what it is, so I'm sure I'm
going I'm going to say it wrong. Uh, but I
thought I thought it was a what do you mean,
like like a chromosomal that's that's down syndrome. Down syndrome
is chromosome. Yeah, not chromosoonal, that's that's not it. What's
the word I'm thinking of?

Speaker 1 (51:11):
A genetic?

Speaker 5 (51:12):
I guess probably genetic, but it is in a sense,
so they're they're both developments.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
I thought it was something that could be uh, physically
detected through like an MRI or something like that, if
if you kind of were looking for something.

Speaker 5 (51:26):
So we're still at there. There's a lot of research
going in that direction. Okay, so you're you're you're looking
in the right direction. We don't have it yet, gotcha. Okay,
But where we're at is, as Whitney said, we still
diagnose both ADHD and ASD through behavioral stuff. So what
are we seeing in the behavior and the thinking styles
of this person? And usually it's reactionary, it's it's aversions

(51:46):
to certain things. It's social skills, it's social blindness in
some situations, it's fixation in some situations with ADHD, it's
that running on a motor inability to focus and concentrate.
But both of them share a lot of hairment of
executive function, and so that's ability to sort of like focus,
good judgment, you know wise veneration there and an emotional

(52:09):
regulation is also a big part of both of them.
So we're talking like fifty to seventy percent in a
lot of cases that we would say they're comorbid that
we're we if we see one, we kind of expect
to see the other. But it's also kind of difficult because,
as we talk about in the deep Dive on ADHD,
fifty percent of all childhood diagnoses of ADHD will eventually

(52:29):
continue to develop to the point where later in their
lives we will no longer see that this behavior matches
criteria for ADHD. So you would be justified in saying
fifty percent of individuals diagnosed with ADHD as a child
quote unquote grow out of it because their brain's not
done developing, right. And so, and this is true of
people with ASD as well, is that in their youth

(52:50):
they may be diagnosed with ASD and they may never
quote unquote grow out of it. But their brain continues
to develop, their function continues to broaden their adaptations. Sure,
and so that's why we also call it asd autism
spectrum disorder, right, because we used to have buckets for it,
and so we had like aspergers, you know, like high
functioning autism and stuff like that. So we finally came

(53:10):
up with like the sliding scale to say, look, if
you're in this criteria box, we're comfortable describing your neuro
divergence as what we call autism. But like, there's all
sorts of levels of severity. There's very you know, far
end stuff where a person may not be able to
self manage and they'll never live independently. And then there's

(53:31):
further on the lighter side where you know that they
perhaps have what you might call, in the general social public,
some quirks, right, but they're fine, They're doing life, and
some of that's actually an advantage for them because some
of their unique neurodivergent ways allow them to hyperfixate and
do some things that are really interesting for them that
other people perhaps don't have that staying power for that
analysis ability. So writer, I guess coming like full circle

(53:54):
on this, Yes, there is a very big link between
these two realities. It is also really common to see
OCD show up alongside either ASD or ADHD or both.
It's also really common to see anxiety. So like, all
of these components show up a lot, and so it's
not weird that you're sensing these comorbidities. The solution to

(54:17):
this ultimately becomes And this is something I think you
were kind of talking about in your letter, Raj, where like, yeah,
the diagnosis is useful only in so much as it
points you towards solutions. And this is something I kind
of get on a soapbox about in the Deep Dive,
is that when I recorded the Deep Dive, there was
it was a very popular thing to identify who you
are based on ADHD or ASD or quote unquote neurodivergence.

(54:41):
And I felt like we were deviating from the purpose
of diagnostics and like, we don't have to diseasify everything.
ADHD and ASD can just be a normal variation in
Homo sapiens in the way that brains are designed. That
doesn't have to be a disease. But knowing it, calling
it a name should really be for the purpose of saying, Okay, now,

(55:01):
what what do I do about this?

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Right?

Speaker 5 (55:03):
What kinds of changes does society need to make around me?
What kind of changes do I need to make to
better match society? The goal is function, and that's really
all we want to see improved. Same thing with OCD
and anxiety. You're still going to have anxiety, You're still
going to note have obsessive, intrusive thoughts. What we want
with OCD is to discontinue the compulsive reactions, the behaviors.

(55:23):
We want to detach the thought from the thing you
do about the thought. And so all of this kind
of full circling is really about personal management. But I mean,
I'm curious from what you know other folks have seen
in the room, Like the data says we see a
lot of comorbidity. The data says that it's not uncommon
if somebody says I have A a lot of times you
will see that they have maybe a B or a C.

(55:45):
Do we notice that in the clinic? Do we notice
that on the field?

Speaker 4 (55:48):
Oh my gosh, yeah, it's kind of funny. I actually
love this question because it does really kind of force
us to dig into that and try and sort through it.
And I think you're right Jim. This is something that
modern research is trying to kind of still actively swort
through and see. And I think of multiple people in

(56:09):
my life who might overlap where like a friend of mine,
I've talked to them about this personally, but you know,
I'll be like, I'm pretty sure you're high functioning on
the spectrum because she went through like her daughter getting
diagnosed and that It's like, hmm, I was like, did
you look at any of these She's like, oh, I
thought about it. I was like, okay. And then also

(56:30):
a lot of OCD tendency sorry in there, and we'll
talk about that. Then we also talk about how trauma
comes into play with some of those symptoms. So it's
a lot and I definitely go to thinking about my
brother growing up born in the nineties. He definitely had

(56:50):
ADHD diagnosis, but this was back when a lot of
his behaviors being like two years old, three years old,
getting kicked out of preschools because he wasn't able to
socially like do well in those environments. He also had
to take like the short bus I'm saying in quotes,
that's what it would like, go to special types of
education because they did not know what to do with
him in regular schooling. And then on top of that,

(57:14):
what I realized as we got older was he is
a toe walker. Oh oh yeah, And like that's one
kind of the bigger symptoms at least early on to
kind of point out, like autism spectrum disorder. And so
I did talk to my parents about this not that
long ago. I was like, what do you think about that? Like,
is there any chance because you know, they were adults

(57:35):
when he was a child, and like, looking back at
some of these symptoms, do you think he could have
He had some you know, uh, what's the word, uh,
sensitivities to uh, like materials and stuff, sensory stuff there.
And I'm thinking, if you were forced to wear like
the socks you hated every day, you'd probably react to
everyone around you too, and like be an asshold of

(57:57):
them at like ten years old or whatever. But even
in his thirties, he still is a toewalker. It's so interesting.
So I say all that to say, like, thinking about
just my personal life, thinking about clients I've worked with,
seeing some of these overlaps, it does make the area
very blurry. You're like, well, well, what's the I think

(58:17):
the ADHD was just showing its face the most, and
maybe there could have been some deeper going on that
if you know, looking back, he could have been helped
a different way, Right, maybe things would have gone a
little easier for.

Speaker 5 (58:30):
Like the elementary middle I agree, but everything to me
comes down to the purpose of a diagnosis neems to
be to improve the functioning of the individual. Yeah, and
unfortunately when you and I were growing up, this is.

Speaker 4 (58:39):
Not resources put like put him into therapy neuro stuff.
But they just didn't know, well.

Speaker 5 (58:46):
They know, And there was actually a lot of interesting
politics about how diagnostics changed with the DSM three and so,
like it opened up the criteria really simplified for ADHD,
and it was handed off to like nurses and practice
like pediatrics, and so a lot of that's what never
all the ADHD diagnoses were pouring out because that was
how you just described every kid that can't sit still.
And then it was you know, we obviously saw the

(59:07):
advent of like a lot of stimulants and stuff like
that and likestriction, and sure there's a.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Lot of like in the environments too.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Environments became more stimulating, right, you know, like growing up
as a as a kid, and you're watching cartoons bright colors, flashing.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Lights used to mister Rogers.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
Yeah, yeah, like Teletubbies and what Yeah, and then you
have to go.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Sit in over Gabba Gabba. Yeah, I have bad news
for you. If you think the nineties were more colorful
than the seventies.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
Yeah, well television, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (59:41):
So, speaking about the kids situation, a couple of pieces
of feedback on this. So your son is three or
four years old, he identifies more with the bad guy.
He is kind of experienced experimenting with like this violence,
and there's sort of like you know, a lack of
remorse about it, but then he can sort of be
talked to about it. He's not hurting other kids, so
we're not seeing like broad anti social behavior. He's too
young for like some hard diagnoses based on.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Any of this.

Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
I don't want to, you know, pathologize this kid. In
my experience, I have like tons of nephews, I've raised
a son, I've seen a lot of young kids. I've
taught in school, I taught kindergarten, so like I've definitely
seen this kind of behavior before. There's two pieces of
this one. I don't want to pathologize it. I'm not concerned,
but it must stop. And so on that side, it

(01:00:25):
becomes a firm and a consistent parenting strategy where when
we're goofing off with our kid, we are starting to
say hard nose to certain behavior and we're not letting
him punch three times soft and then he finally throws
a hard right hook at your chin, and now you're like,
that was too hard. You can't trust a three or
four year old to moderate a certain kind of behavior.
It becomes binary. They don't know, like, oh, you're allowed

(01:00:48):
to poke me with this butter knife a little bit,
but then the last time you poke too hard. Like
adults can do that moderating behavior of like oh I
can punch you in the shoulder because we're buddies, But
then there's a difference between how much pressure I show
and like that. That lack of moderation communicates a different message.
Children don't do that. Like he's three or four. It's
fucking binary. So it's just we either hit or we
don't hit. And so if you're allowing your kid to

(01:01:09):
like play fight with you and he's allowed to hit,
but then he takes it too far, this is where
I think that you and your your co parent need
to say, okay, we need to adjust our parenting. You know,
with this kid, if we're going to play fight, it's
you know, we make sound effects with the swords. They
don't actually clink. You know, we don't actually hit each other.
We make sound effects. We pretend, you know, we do

(01:01:30):
not actually cross that line. And because he can't moderate
that behavior when he does it and he goes too far,
he's not going. I mean, you're going to be genuinely
hurt and be startled by your kid and you think,
oh my god, am I raising a fucking psychopath? And
it's like, no, he's three or four, Like they're little cavemen.
You know at that age they are psychopath.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Or four year old that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Yes, Also the bad guys and this is real. The
bad guys on these shows are the interesting. I want
to come back to change, Like the hero never changes.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Mario doesn't change. He's trying to get coins for some reason.
Rules Bowser is doing ship. Yes, that part, I'm not
I'm not very concerned. I don't care about that. I
think it's interesting, it's very interesting. But I also think.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
That too, that that's very appealing to kids that have
a feeling of a lack of power in their environment
because they see the power that the bad guy has. Sure,
I like this take, and so like, you know, to
be able to see like Darth Vader and just like,

(01:02:42):
oh my god, he's got power.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Everyone's afraid of him. I feel very vulnerable. I feel
like I have no power over anything. Wouldn't it be
nice for people to be a.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Little worried about me? Or I should get a cape?

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
Yeah, I need a helmet.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
We should always my cape.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
But yeah, I mean I think that's part of it too,
to be able to see to see a character and
see a trait that they have and be able to
admire that trait.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
Now I like the idea too that they're ominous.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
They matter.

Speaker 5 (01:03:15):
I mean, as far as like your separation affecting the kid,
I think it does. But I think it's also really
difficult to get a three to four to five year.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Old to verbalize.

Speaker 5 (01:03:25):
They're not very aware of their cognitions at that age.
They're not very aware of their emotions, and so when
you ask them things like are you sad that mommy
and daddy don't live together? They're in the backseat of
your car you're driving home from McDonald's and they're like, no,
I'm fine, you know, because they're just like eating a
fucking nugget, like they don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
They're watching blue you know.

Speaker 5 (01:03:41):
So like it's hard to really get a gauge on
this stuff. I wouldn't really bring your attention so much
to like cognitively and deeper emotional stuff of like how's
my kid feeling right now, I'd really keep your focus
on what we call behaviorism, which is just what are
we doing in our interactions with others, what is a
good behavior, what is a bad behavior, and just observing

(01:04:02):
the child for maladaptation. That's usually what we see with kiddos.
So whenever their environment changes and it disrupts them emotionally,
they're not often able to verbalize it, and a lot
of times therapy with them talk therapy isn't necessarily.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
That useful at that age.

Speaker 5 (01:04:16):
A lot of specialists, because you asked about specialist referrals.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
They like to use play therapy.

Speaker 5 (01:04:20):
Yeah, and play therapy is a really interesting modality because
it is the form of communication that children use. And
even the fact that that he likes to play is
the bad guy and likes to use some violence in
his play. A play therapist is going to take all
that information and know what to do with it, and
know how to interpret what this signals about the kid
and how to signal back to that, and how to

(01:04:41):
like work with that to reveal things and to like
slowly start to nuance their behavior. So I don't necessarily
want you to run your kid off to a therapist
right away. I don't want to overreact. I feel like
what I'm hearing about seems pretty typical. I think it
just requires a cohesive parenting response when possible. If he
was doing this at school to other kids, yeah, and

(01:05:02):
I was seeing the spill out of the just the
playtime with parents. Now I'm starting to get nervous. If
I'm seeing the kid be reckless, breaking property around the house,
doing other kinds of like acting out things, now I'm going, Okay,
this is getting to a place where he doesn't know
how to verbalize what he's feeling.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
But they're big feelings.

Speaker 5 (01:05:18):
And that's where i'd probably want to play therapist to
get tagged in.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
Yeah. I say this to all the parents I talk to,
working with teens especially, but toddlers and teenagers are like
the same.

Speaker 5 (01:05:30):
Yeah, yeah, pretty much and thirty nine year old men.
I feel like we're not that far off.

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
But what I told him is, especially when I hear
the kid is sweet to other kids at school, there
are really behavior problems outside of the home. I try
to remind parents that that means their home is their
safe space, and it doesn't mean their behavior is okay.
I one hundred percent agree with what you were saying, Jim,
like there needs to be behavioral modification in the home.

(01:05:57):
But I do think just when you are worried, abut oh,
is my kid, you know, a psychopath or something deeply disturbing,
It's like it sounds like that's maybe his outlet is
playtime with you, and he thinks he can like get
out a good angry hit. I think about my niece
when she was really young, probably around this age. It
was so interesting because she really could not verbalize her

(01:06:20):
emotions very well, but you could see she was emotional,
like through facial expressions or you know, maybe like staring
intently when something was going on and not really reacting,
and then she'd just like walk away from the situation
and like shove her brother on the way out or
like okay, yeah, just like a little like poke or
like a you know, yeah, like I need to get

(01:06:41):
this out somehow, and I don't know how. And she's
not a psychopath. She's an amazing kid at like eleven now.
But at the time you're like, oh, is this okay,
and you're just like, oh no, she's just struggling to
like express herself. So as a parent, absolutely stopping the
really aggressive behavior, I would just one of my favorite

(01:07:01):
terms that I've watched, you know, my family members use
with their kids is I'm not going to let you
hit me. So it's not you're a bad kid for
hitting me, like don't hit it's I'm not going to
I'm your parent, I'm going to help you right now.
I'm not going to allow you to hit me.

Speaker 5 (01:07:16):
Yeah, And then also creating that norm where we don't hit,
we don't like a three or four year old brain
isn't getting into the nuances of when it's cool when
it's not cool.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
So I'm not pretending when I'm the bad.

Speaker 5 (01:07:25):
Guy getting the kid maybe into karate or something. Thoughts
on this outlet where it's like, hey, you I get it.
You got all that little boy energy Yeah, you want
to fucking like tear into something. You want to do
the cool time to do it. You like the shredder
and the you know teens and turtls, like you want
to do that cool shit. Like great, get in there
and go break the little boards and do your high
yahs and go punch the thingy and like get out
that little boy aggression.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Great.

Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
The last, the last little story is going to share
was just Peter and a couple of years ago. We're
talking with his family and they were like only allowed
to watch Star Wars growing up pretty much. And he
was talking with his brothers, I think, and they were
talking about how they always wanted to be you know,
Luke Skywalker or whatever, and Peter was over there like
I always wanted to be like the bad guy, and

(01:08:09):
they're like really, like we were so shocked by that
stuck out to me. I was like, oh, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Kind of right.

Speaker 5 (01:08:15):
The entire day is nothing wrong. Was essentially a terrorist faction.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
And he turned out Okay for the busy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
No, he's in the car, it walks in the garage.
Don't worry, I left it right.

Speaker 4 (01:08:34):
No, but he is he's like emotionally really he's a sweetheart, Like,
I don't know, I think, yeah, I kind of was
interested in what Nick was sharing, you know, about the
power and control you have as a kid and how
you really see yourself in characters that you watched.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
It also says a lot too.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
I mean, it could be a sign of emotional maturity
to be able to look at a character like Darth
Vader and be under be able to understand that that
person has emotion.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
As well, right, has a story, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
You know, and like that was always really interesting to
me watching Star Wars as a kid is like really
kind of understanding that character and being like, okay, so
this was Luke's dad, this was once a good guy,
this was you know, and there's you know, there's a
lot of same story behind that, you know, and and
to be able to see that in a character that

(01:09:26):
otherwise would just be like, Okay, this is the bad guy.
That's all you need to know about him.

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
He's back, he did bad things, and I just frustrated.

Speaker 5 (01:09:33):
It's kind of like what Jacob said, it's the most
interesting character in the story. That's why the fucking prequels exist.
Is like, oh, what is the backstory of Darth Vader?
How did that guy become Darth Vader, Like, it's way
fucking more interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:09:44):
The White Knight good guy is such a limited range.
Actors want to be the bad guy. It's more interesting.
So I think your son just has a flair for
the dramatic. It's a more interesting character. You're allowed to
sort of do more with that, you know. But I
don't want to pathologize your kid. I think he's just
being a kid. I have, you know, like I said,
a bunch of nephews. I just spent the weekend with one,
and he's two, and it's just so funny because as

(01:10:07):
soon as we give this kid, like I gave him
a lightsaber, and it is yeah, yeah, exactly, I forged
a lightsaber. And and when I give this kid a lightsaber,
he's like, oh cool. He immediately turns around and hits
his one year old brother right in the fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Fast and I'm looking at his mom in horror.

Speaker 5 (01:10:25):
I'm like, I am so sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
To be fair, that kid was asking, you know, he's
just immediately a terrorist.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
He starts running through the house just shaking everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
Just do you see why he's looking at me?

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
And I'm just like tackling this kid like to get
the sword out of his head and he's.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Like, I'm a fucking Jedi. Jesu's Christ. So yeah, they're
all like this, dude. It's just that is just little boys.
They are cavemen.

Speaker 5 (01:10:51):
But anyway, this this is a great question writer, and
you know, I'm really glad that you were able to experience,
you know, your own healthcare journey, going through your own
you know, work doing this work on OCD, you doing
this work in anxiety, finding a medication that's working for you,
and you know a lot of things coming into context,
which is great. And keep an eye on your son,
you know, because like if you have these heritable traits,

(01:11:13):
it's very possible that your son may be neurodivergent a
little bit or resonate with some of these things. And
you know, you want to get good at guiding yourself
through this and learning about what tools and maneuvers work
well for you so that you can also assist him.
And the goal is, again, we're not going to cure
these things. It may not even be something it needs
to be cured, you know, when you get away from
looking at these as illnesses that as a former writer
wrote in about being somebody who has ASD and feeling

(01:11:35):
like the current you know, federal administration is pathologizing this
and making it sound bad. We don't want it to
be that way. We just want to be a trait
and something that we could work with. So learning how
to adapt that for yourself so that you can be
a good coach to your son, I think is a
great idea anyway. But we're gonna take a quick break
and when we come back, wrapping up the show. You
are listening to pod therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
Today's episode has brought to you by Mason Miller, Tests Miller, Bilerts,
Harris Monico, Oscar Swans, Emma Cain, Myra, and Sam Cone.
If you like to spass, the show become a therapy
patron dot com slash therapy.

Speaker 5 (01:12:11):
So I've got four points in these assholes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
Jacob's got three. I think I have three? H two
feels right, Okay, here we go. These are worth eighty
points each.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
Think so Dunkin Donuts, oh or Duncan Robinson the small
forward for the Detroit Pistons.

Speaker 4 (01:12:28):
Duncan Donuts, thousand donuts, give me Duncan Donuts. They had
the whole Super million commercial.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
On Duncan got them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
Sure that Duncan has a good pr Oh, yeah, they're
very Duncan two point eight million, Duncan Robinson two hundred
and seventy thousand.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
You Duncan Robinson.

Speaker 4 (01:12:47):
I'm surprised there's such a discrepancy between these options.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Very broad, Naomi Campbell. Oh, speaking of Broad or Campbell's soup,
this is gonna be tough, this one.

Speaker 5 (01:13:00):
I may get away from the institution, but I feel
like when it comes to likes and followers, these institutions
pay good fucking money to get like as much that
shit in there as they can, So I don't know
how authentic it is. Your number is big. I'm going
to stick to soup.

Speaker 4 (01:13:15):
Give me soup, Jacob, did you pick one soup?

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
Give me soup or give me death. I'll go Campbell.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
I'll go Diama like bo okay, Naomi Campbell fifteen point
seven million, fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Soup six thousand, five thousand. Damn, ma'am will be good?

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
Are you hot, lady?

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
The writer John Green or the Green Bay Packers.

Speaker 5 (01:13:43):
Oh geez, I'm going to go John Green.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
I'll go Green Bay Packers.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
I'm going Packers, John Green two point three million for me,
John Green, Bay Packers two point nine million.

Speaker 4 (01:14:01):
I believe, I just shit, that was eighty points.

Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
So Tracy Morgan or Morgan Stanley, Oh boy, boy, who's
following Morgan Stanley on Instagram?

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Givey? Yeah, I'm going Tracy Morgan's.

Speaker 4 (01:14:18):
Oh, I was thinking like Stanley Cups. I was like,
but Tracy.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Tracy Morgan nine hundred and ninety or nine hundred and
thirty nine thousand, Morgan Stanley three hundred and fifty nine thousand.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Yay, okay. Last one, David Cameron, Prime Minister.

Speaker 4 (01:14:37):
Oh oh, David Cameron.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
Yeah, I call him Dave David Cameron or Harley Davidson.

Speaker 5 (01:14:44):
Oh boy, oh he's a world leader. Or Harley Davidson. Yeah,
I'm going with David Cameron. There's no way Harley Davidson
is just like old dudes like that. Nobody's fucking following
them on it? And what the demographic that rides Harley's
doesn't use Instagram, So it's it's no.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
It's David Wow. It's good logic. That is good logic.
It maths.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
I'm gonna I'm gonna just stack onto gym's logic and
say that if I picked the same answer, the gym picked,
then I win the game.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
So Cameron, God damn.

Speaker 4 (01:15:15):
It, what I was gonna pick David Cameron to But
just to go against the grain, I'm gonna say Harley
Davidson for because I'm losing anyways.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
Harley Davidson five point seven million, whoa wow, David Cameron
one and.

Speaker 4 (01:15:32):
Fifty gosh, I did it?

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
You know, for the.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Definitely gets the moral victory. The actual vide you were.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Off by about five point seven.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Honestly, that's how the game should be played, is that
you don't get a point for getting it right. You
get the discrepancy. So if you get it right, you
get all the discrepancy between.

Speaker 4 (01:15:57):
All those followers.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Four million, four point seven almost like wow, that is surprised.

Speaker 5 (01:16:06):
Well, as we wrap up the show, we want to
remind you can sign up at patreon dot com slash Therapy.
You can get our extended show ad free a day earlier,
as well as enjoy our live chat, discord community, and
our spontaneous deep dives, interview, skill shares, research around ups
and rants as you listen to this. The following Monday
after this episode publishes, is a deep dive on conversion

(01:16:26):
therapy currently being discussed at the Supreme Court level. What
are the outcomes, what's the history? What do we need
to be thinking about? Some big stuff coming out of
the court. And it's going to because I'm a bad
boy there. It is psychotherapy in any direction that it
goes in. But we've got some new people to welcome
to the therap party. Who has joined us at patreon
dot com. Slash therapy is a hot supple nineteen year.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Old, that's what I've heard. Drops there are Nick Dross,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
Elise Hammond joins us as a therapal say movies, and
we got a new therape producer.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
Dan Welcome, Blippity Blappity.

Speaker 5 (01:17:03):
And we'd like to think the benevolent, revered, generous and
flagrantly pro therapy diehards who love you all so much
they give till it hurts that they're a partner. Pickett,
and we want to thank our bosses, the mysterious and
shrouded Illuminati, members of the fan club, the their producers.
Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie, Junior, Mint Smithty Scoop,
Richard Fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia, Leon Cassab, Carol and Albert,

(01:17:25):
Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Dan Martin, Sammy Scoop, Slurpie Kaye, Motherfucker,
Ben Stanley, Slapping your Face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway, Builer
t Mike helm Oscar swanros paris A Sunny Boy, Darren Cunningham,
Lib Sandra Mcwoffle Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop, Hey
O Hannah, Marie Andrew Langmead, Emma Tonka and Pony Soprano

(01:17:47):
Alina Cody, the Louring Guy, Brady Malay, Chick Chick, Filatio, Gabriela, Dame,
Shan Sutherland, Max the Ginger, Scoop, Chad mag Adam, Warren,
Inclele The Prince, Sam Cone, big A, Do Crimes, Eli,
o'dair and Welcoming Blip blop.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
And if you would like to hear this episode uncut
and unedited, and why wouldn't you and enjoy our spontaneous
side projects, go to patreon dot com slash therapy and
thank you for supporting mental health.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
That's all the time we've got for this week session.

Speaker 5 (01:18:12):
We would like to thank our landlords, uh Supple, nineteen
year old and the ice.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
Cream of Social podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:18:18):
Thanks to those of you who contributed to our show today,
we really appreciate it. Remember, pot therapy isn't something you
should keep all of yourself. Shure the episode with the
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Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
He's at patreon dot com slash and therapy.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
And if you want us some of the questions to show,
you can ask anonymously at pot therapy is.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
And that's emails a pot Therapy Guys at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
We'll click the link in the episode of description to
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Speaker 4 (01:18:46):
I'm an Anatgeman, I'm Whitney, I'm Jim.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Thanks, so we'll see you for your appointment next week.

Speaker 5 (01:18:52):
Feel you know, so targeted. I don't feel safe talking
about hot, supple teenagers anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:18:57):
Oh okay, I feel so bad for you, Jim.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
You know this violation of my free speech. Your father's
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