#411: Self compassion, Stuck in a Slump, Ethical Therapy in Spanish

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, the Mario, the original Mario hat, like, yeah, the
one that's the kangaroo hat when he turned around backwards.
You're allow, cool, j that what you're talking about?

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, that one.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Which was total brain went. I know exactly what you're
talking about. I got you, I got you know where.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
From Thuels, Las Vegas. Pod Therapy, Real real problems and
real therapists. You can submit your questions anonymously a pot
Therapy or email us at pot therapy guys at gmail
dot com. Man now broadcasting from the yet to be
named studio. That's Jim, that's Whitney, Nick, It's time for
some pod there.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
We were recording this one in the ancient past to
the Sunday, November ninth. We had to do a double
because we'd be traveling in November and we are getting
ever closer to my Whitney and I are both out
of town next weekend. How ambitious?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Interesting? Yeah, probably not together. You don't know, I don't
ever know my business.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
To a reminder to everybody, you can name the studio
for just twenty bucks.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yep, there go. We'd really prefer you didn't, though, but
it is up there. Might if you did.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Please name it. I want to hear what you come
up with.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
It's patron dot com slash therap. You could check in
because I'm a bad boy. I am a bad boy.
If you'd like to hear an audio performance of us
putting on a hat, uh dot com slash. Maybe not
a good We get in there and hear all of
us putting on a hat and being so excited about
a hat.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
But it did look good.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
I just did look independently good. So check that out.
We've got some great questions for today's show, and leading
off the order is how to do self compassion? Hello
doctor Jacob, Hello Pew Pew, Texas, Macho Man, Randy Tanjman,
and hot Supple Jim Job fuck you long time their producer,

(01:56):
first time writer. The short version of my question is
how can I work on being more self compassionate and
accepting of my struggles when I've been struggling for a
long time and never learned how to be kind to
myself in the first place. For background, I think my
whole life, I've been somewhat more anxious than is typical,
and my parents largely modeled coping with emotions by suppressing them.

(02:19):
So I grew up without really understanding what to do
with big feelings. I also had undiagnosed ADHD, and my
primary memory of K through twelve schooling was hearing from
teachers that I wasn't trying hard enough, so I started
constantly beating myself up for being a failure. Fast forward
to adulthood. I spent several years as a firefighter and

(02:40):
EMT or surprise surprise, I saw some shit. I became
more and more anxious, both in and out of work,
and after some particularly tough calls, I started having occasional
panic attacks and flashbacks while not really understanding what was
going on in my head. The pandemic only made things worse,
and I started working fewer shifts while also drinking more

(03:00):
frequently on nights I didn't work, which in hindsight was
self medication to call the anxiety in order to sleep.
At the end of twenty twenty, my brain finally had
enough and I started having crippling panic attacks at night
and into the morning, which basically put my entire life
on hold. I left my first or I left first
response work, got into therapy, started listening to y'all, and
have been on a wild journey of learning how to

(03:22):
not just squish down all of my emotions until I implode.
I've come such a long way, gained so much in
terms of emotional understanding and healthily coping with what happens
inside the brain I have, and I've outwardly accomplished a lot,
like finishing my bachelor's degree, getting a master's, starting a
successful side business, and working my way into a leadership

(03:43):
role in my career. Shout out to Ritalin for all
the assists. Oh yeah, Still, though, I often go through
periods where my anxiety symptoms put up a real fight
against my medication and coping skills, and I feel like
I miss out on a lot of life because of it.
I then beat myself up, in large part because I've
been struggling for so long, which just amplifies the anxiety,

(04:04):
and I get stuck in a self defeating loop. I
hear that a good way to respond is with self compassion,
but I feel so lost when it comes to actually
putting that into practice. I'm great at offering compassion to others,
but when I try to apply that to myself, it's
as though I have an emotional wall that blocks compassionate
words and gestures from myself. I would love to hear

(04:24):
any thoughts you all have. Thank you for all that
you do. This podcast has been instrumental to my mental
health and my life, changing me for the better. Signed anonymous.
Pronouns are he and him. Thank you. It's very nice.
The inability to sort of give oneself praise, that's an
interesting thing because I mean, obviously we're all gonna recommend

(04:45):
hey try that.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Well, not even praise, but just compassion, which I think
is different than praise. But just to be you know,
there's uh, okay, it's going to be two episodes in row.
But golf, so golf.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
There was let me tell you about how good I am.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Somebody ship who was it? I can't remember a professional
palmer that it wasn't, but your former professional golfer was
talking and like giving golf advice to amateurs and was
uh basically said to write down all of your internal

(05:29):
thoughts during the round and then afterwards read them out
as though this person was talking to a friend of yours.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Oh interesting, and like.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Would you tolerate that kind of talk? Okay, because you
get into such a negative mindset of just be like
fucking idiot Okay, write that.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Down, would you yeah, would you allow?

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Would you allow?

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Exactly?

Speaker 3 (05:53):
But yet when we talked to ourselves, we're just completely.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Fine with it.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
It just doesn't like we don't even think about it,
you know now that it's yeah, like I I get that,
but it's hard to actually put this into practice, right,
so like to recognize, yes, this is a problem.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
But how do you not do that?

Speaker 3 (06:12):
How do you create or how do you treat yourself
with compassion? That's a tough one.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Do you think I was just thinking about this.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
Do you think there's value in like, uh, we kind
of know what we say to ourselves or I feel
like we have go tos like you just fucking idiot,
I've said that one.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
That's even better. Good for you, Jim way to be
above us. We just yell it ourselves.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
Just but like coming up with maybe three or four
phrases that you tend to use the most or that
are the most harmful, you think, and just coming up
with when I say this, I'm now going to switch
to that, like come up with a dedicated statement against it,
because I think it kind of has to be put
into practicality terms in the beginning, especially, I mean I

(07:00):
guess it doesn't have to, but I think that makes
it easier to where it's like, all right, if this,
then that So if I say you're a fucking idiot,
I'm gonna change it to you tried your best. So
every time I think that, I'm just gonna say you
tried your best, idiot. So yeah, whatever that is, like,

(07:24):
just find the equals because I think sometimes it has
to be in practice where you feel it, because just
being in the moment, you feel like a fucking idiot.
So you're not going to think about something kind.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
You're like, no, I'm being to myself disingenuous. Yes, I'm
just lying, you fucking idiot. Feels real, Like that's like,
yeah I am I, I am a fucking idiot. But
for me to say to myself like that's all right,
everybody makes mistakes or hey, we're gonna rise above this

(07:53):
or something like that just feels so fake. It's hard
to actually.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Said it angrily. I never thought about this.

Speaker 5 (08:03):
Yeah, pretty much like makes mistakes like yell mother, because behind.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
It you're joking. But like there is some truth to that,
like the way that this is something you'll see in
male culture actually that there is a jovial teasing about
one another that sometimes actually is meant to be sarcastic
to the point of encouraging you. And like, you know,
you'll you'll see your buddy make a mistake or whatever,
and like sometimes you're busting as chops, but sometimes you're

(08:35):
actually giving your teammate or somebody like encouragement by teasing them,
you know, like all right, you sucked way less this week, man,
you know, like things like that, and it's like and
it's funny because women will hear that kind of like,
oh my god, is that because you're kind of being
a dick. It's like no, in you know, American you know,
male culture, like that was a compliment. Like it comes
off that way too. The other guy can absorb it.

(08:56):
So like, I think that there's some truth to like
this idea of like reframing self talk a compassionate way
that is in some way like sarcastic in oneself that's
making fun of the fact that like, hey, you failed
less this week or whatever. Like I guess it's not
gonna be perfect again, you know, fuck it on, you know,
try harder, you know, but like in this playful way,
I think there's room for that, it's an interesting, you know,
kind of cut on it. But something else that the

(09:17):
writer said that I think is really interesting here is
growing up in a family that was like emotionally inexpressive,
didn't teach the kids how to language emotion, how to
talk through it, how to feel it out loud. And
I think that that's interesting, right, because, like, on one hand,
I understand the idea that parents are not always emotionally
transparent because they don't want to bleed on their kids,
and so there is like a sense of like stoicism

(09:39):
or like keep the you know, the neutrality so that
your kids don't see you suffer. But there's also room
for like teaching your children that you are an emotional
human being that they are too, meeting them and having
them learn how to talk through what they're feeling, normalizing that.
But I think also giving people that emotional vocabulary. One
of the things that a writer wrote in to the
show about once like really hit me. They were a

(10:02):
male and they said, this show has made such a
difference in my life because it is, you know, Whitney
excluded here men using emotional language that I didn't know
men knew how to use. And I as a guy,
never had those words, but hearing dudes that I identify with,
they seem like middle aged dudes that I would probably
hang out with at the bar. They're you know, bullshitting

(10:24):
with each other, They're busting balls, they make all these
you know, stupid ass jokes, you know, and like I
relate to these guys, they sound like I do, and
then all of a sudden they hard pivot and integrate
into the way they talk about like emotions and like
different kinds of vocabulary and talk about like self care
and all the shit, and it normalizes it. And then
suddenly I can hear myself using those words, like now

(10:46):
I have a role model or a person that I
can like imitate that now teaches me an organic way
to be that person. And I've never had that example before,
And I think that's like one of the nicest things
that's ever been said to us about the show. But
as a male therapist, that comes up a lot is
you'll be talking to guys that are first responders that
come from different careers. They've never been in an environment

(11:08):
where another guy who they relate to speaks in that
therapeutic way or that self care kind of way. Or
normalizes that yeah, without also like being tongue in cheek
about it and being like, oh, don't be a little
bitch you dirto but like, no, it's sincerely like looking
at it and reframing it. So I feel like a
big part of this writer is finding a way to
language what you are feeling, because you have to overcome

(11:30):
that first hurdle of growing up in a world where
you were never taught this. It was not a first language.
You entered multiple cultures as a man that suppress emotional expression,
that have this rubbed the dirt on it mentality just
go to the next traumatic event. And I feel like
that can lead to that lack of self compassion because
we just don't understand what we're feeling. And like that

(11:51):
ability to name it, I think goes a long way
to ultimately forgiving it, to healing it, to accepting it,
and to even to reframe it, like as you were
just saying, Whitney, and to look at this and say,
isn't that you're failing. It, isn't that you're struggling. It's
that you're learning, Like you're overcoming this man, and you're
learning one try at a time, And like you've gotten
two percent better than last time. Great job, and to

(12:12):
have that not sound weird, like to be able to
say that because you're able to identify why was that
hard for you? I was really discouraging. I felt defeated
by this, you know. I felt like I was trying
so hard and I felt like I'm still not good enough,
and like it's just it's really hard because I feel
like I'm comparing myself to others and I'm envious and
I just feel less than. It's like, man, that's all
emotional vocabulary that a lot of dudes just not immediately
have access to and they're not comfortable self expressing. Like

(12:34):
if you can get that first, yeah, it starts to
open the door to self compassion to Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
No, I agree, And I think it's important to remember
too that healing is like an all over the place journey,
and it sounds like maybe there's a little bit of
backtracking going on here. You know, That's okay, that's very normal,
and I want to kind of, yeah, just normalize that
a little bit too.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
It is part of the journey. It's not linear.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
It's not just oh, I'm better now, can verbalize my
feelings because That's what I hear too, is you mentioned
like your anxiety symptoms are coming back up, or there'll
be periods where you feel more like panic attacks coming on,
And I think I wonder if maybe there's more compartmentalization
going on. So it's it's training you to not feel
your feelings and it's like the opposite of what you've

(13:19):
been trying to do. So trying your best to bring
those emotions back into it where you can. I know,
you might have to compartmentalize because I cannot imagine being
an emt Like, oh dude, I've just heard a couple
of stories from friends and it's like, oh my god, God.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Every day, every day you're showing up to somebody else's
worst day of their life. You know, you're just constantly
it's fresh horrors every single day. Horrors. I should clarify,
the horrors are not fresh. They're not fresh, yeah, never
every day. The horrors that the ems interact with, yeah, yeah,
rarely fresh. It's like being on the pier. You know,

(13:56):
it's just nothing about this is good. It's the same exactly.
The old Moody wants to be here, right, nobody wants
to But you know, one more thought on this too,
is like I feel like whenever you're living with perpetual
and chronic anxiety, that is a big factor in this,
Like somebody with JAD, Like this is really really hard
because a lot of times you find yourself anxiously going

(14:18):
back over conversations, anxiously thinking about everything you just did.
Did I say something stupid? Was I off putting? Like
is there something that I've messed up here? And I
feel like that leads to a lack of self compassion
because there is this over analysis and like the anxious
brain is constantly scrutinizing down to this atomic level like
everything you did, everything you intended to do, and like
you're like watching yourself over again from like every possible

(14:40):
camera angle, and there's just so much hyper scrutiny that's
really fictional, man, It's like really delusional. Like our anxious
voice makes us do that, The anxious brain makes us
do that. And it's like a big part of self
compassion is just learning I think for me at least
those fundamental cognitive behavioral therapy skills where I like learn
how to speak back to that anxious voice and like

(15:00):
talk through it and kind of like challenge it. With
some of those CBT techniques, Like we've gone over in
our Patreon, like you can look up the Pause episode
where we kind of explain like a set of different
CBT techniques, but they're just self referencing questions that you
can use to like disentangle that voice and challenge its conclusions.
And sometimes, writer, that's what self compassion looks like. It

(15:21):
isn't necessarily positive reinforcement because you kind of talk about
like you gag on that, like it's like some barrier
stops you from doing that, But at least scrutinizing the
negative reinforcements to unravel that sometimes that's way more accessible
than just being a cheerleader for yourself.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
Yes, I just experienced this with a friend where they're
really beating themselves up for like not making more progress
and something they were working on. And then when I
was talking to her later, we're kind of like putting
it into perspective and like, you really only it feels
like you've been working on this for like six seven months,
but really you've only been in practice the last like
two months, right, and you're thinking it feels like longer.

(15:56):
But when we really look at the facts and scrutinize it, like, right,
what's going on? How much progress are you making two
months when you just started doing right, you know.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Which is a form of self compassion. You're not don't
smoke up your ass, YEA, qualifying the criticism and realizing
this is inaccurate.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yes, exactly, Like I'm probably on pace or at least
okay with like a two month window of practice rather
than you know, seven months or a year or whatever
you feel like it's been.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
So Yeah, sometimes accuracy is the goal. The compassion, that's passion.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
Because it kind of makes the playing field a little
more yeah, real or tangible, rather than in my mind,
I should be somewhere.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, yeah, I like that. That's good, good stuff. You're writer,
and just really thank you for the support of the show.
Thank you for all the really kind words. It's super
awesome to read this kind of stuff. Great progress, Oh
my gosh, look at all these things that you're doing
and like this is wonderful, and that you're doing that
personal work I think is tremendous. And the fact that
you've been able to diagnose like yep, I was drinking,
I was self medicating, Like I've had this lifelong battle

(16:54):
but like, I've found out what works now, but I
still have these days where like it kind of unravels.
But then I'm no longer squishing on those emotions. I'm
unpacking them, I'm analyzing them, i'm holding them, I'm workshopping them.
That's tremendous. So the only thing you're doing wrong is
listening to the show.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
I would not think you came four now.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Definitely not helpful, So good luck to you. There's a
Patreon level war I send you the episode without Jim.
There's a Patreon episode where we send you blank tape.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
You're gonna get a lot out of this.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
It's just mut He just scrubs it before he sends it,
and then all of a sudden you hear the jingle
sound drop. It's just the iPad. It's just silence. And
I've been a bad bull.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
Okay, my algorithm is sending me cats that push the
buttons to answer.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
You're like, that's just it. It's like, worried I've been
a bad one.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
If we ever do a completely live streaming show, it
would be cool if like there was a Patreon level
where you get to control the iPad for the show,
Like you get to do all the drops. I don't know,
I don't even know how you do that. Nope, but
there's a number in which we figure it out. Sure,
we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,

(18:09):
we're gonna talk about being stuck in a slump. You're
listening to pod therapy.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
Today's episode is brought to you by Smitty's scoop, Mason Miller,
Test Miller, Piler, Tea, Harris, te Monico, Oscar swanros Anna
Marine and McCaine Myra and Sam Coone And if you
would like to sposor the show become a therapy shore
patreon dot com slash therapy. Alright, Whitney, you're gonna start
off with you uh two points on the fly.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Whitney, by the way, for the second show in a row,
is wearing socks with sandals. Good lord, I just love them.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
I can't resist, every can't stop, won't stop.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
This episode's trivia is gonna be hat themed. Oh that
was wow?

Speaker 2 (18:55):
How much is.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Uh, Whitney?

Speaker 3 (18:58):
What type of hat is famously associated with Sherlock Holmes.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
On the Fly?

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Oh geez, I mean Sherlock Holmes had Who is Sherlock Holmes?
Who is the actor. You kind of like how the
which actor plays double? Is it Benedict? Okay, mine is
a Robert Downey Jr. Oh that is definitely my homes.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
I want to say the bowler hat, but I don't
think I'm right.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
That's a little assistant's watson is.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
I'm just going to say some I know to there. Okay, sorry,
I thought I had to.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Okay, options Fedora, deer stalker, bowler triply.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Jeez, well the bowlers in there, bowlers in there?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
But you.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Tribby, what was the second one?

Speaker 3 (19:51):
Deer stalker?

Speaker 2 (19:52):
I feel like that's it.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
My answer feels right, yes, wow, I need to have
a photo what a deer stalker has? Please show me
photo of deer stock sounded very oh okay, oh oh yeah,
oh that the one that has the back.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
Okay, yeah, it has a little sinning sand on him
with the magnifying glass.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Okay, that's the guy. Jacob Yep, what type of stalker? Nice,
he's got it and you got it.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Popularized in the nineteen twenties, was commonly worn by flappers.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Maybe one of the little headband father.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
Cloush trill by that odor again? Pillbox?

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Pill box? No, that's the wait, maybe it is. I
think it's a pillbox hat. I know that one. I've
seen that one. It is not it's not a pillbox hat.
Pictures of a pill box hat. Probably, Oh it's that one.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
This is like.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Looks like a pill box.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, that's the one. Okay, So that's not it. So
it comes to gym. Give me that Trillix thing you
keep talking about. No, damn it, Trillby hat, claush or boater. Oh,
this is a man's hat. That's just claus Yeah, is basically.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Is it the little hat headband with the feather in it?

Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Basically what's it called c l hat? You keep doing
your phone? Yeah, that's the one. Yea. It reminds me
of the Great Gatsby Okay, hat hat, But yeah, it's
basically just uh we're talking about a second ago, the
boater hat. What was that one? We're talking about it?

(21:48):
It's like a bucket had for women. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Here we go. Jim geography. The fez, a red cylindrical
hat with a tassel. I'm a famili is traditionally associated
with which country scoop.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Fest I'll take? Oh wait no, uh Morocco. My answer, yes, no,
fuck you, it is Morocco Mole had a fez, You
racist piece of ship.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Options you Morocco.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
Turkey, Egypt Lebanon.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Egypt was going to be my other guest, so I
but I feel like that's wrong now Egypt, Morocco.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Mole gotta be Turkey. Sorry, Chicken, the other white. Well,
here's the picture of Morocco mole and as you can see,
he's wearing a fez. I'll accept my two points fine.
Stuck in a slump? Hypod Therapy, how dare you like?

(22:59):
Domin you guys? Last time hipod Therapy, I was wondering
if you could please help me decipher what I might
be feeling and how to begin to slowly grow and
change the way I've been living my life. After a
recent deep conversation with my friends, I couldn't help but
realize that what they describe as their brief slumps is
how I've been living my life for at least the

(23:21):
past two years. I've just become so used to it
that I brush it off as laziness and never had
the wake up call to self reflect and change until now.
Over the past two years, I've been constantly exhausted, socially,
withdrawing and staying home as much as possible despite intense
fomo and overthinking, feeling less interested in general, which along

(23:43):
with my low energy, meant I've unfortunately been neglecting my hobbies.
I'm drained every day from the smallest tasks, and it
eats away at me that I should be doing more
and studying more. I'm very behind on lectures and that
I'm wasting my life away, yet I do nothing about it.
While I still have my fair share of happy days
and things that get me excited. I feel like I've

(24:05):
become so complacent with doing and being the bare minimum
for so long that I want to regain some sense
of control of my life and actually enjoy living again,
rather than just going through the motions with minimal effort.
But I don't know how to or where to even begin.
My routine general practitioner checkup and blood work came back normal,

(24:28):
so I don't think it's anything physical. I just want
to do better. Any and all suggestions welcome. Thanks anonymous.
Oh boy, do I have good news for you about cocaine.
Let me tell you all. Today's show has brought to
life by co Coca Cola Classic are you into the
new waves? Zero? I like my zero calorie cocaine. How

(24:55):
socially responsible of it? That's right. I don't want I
don't want to pack on the pounds.

Speaker 6 (24:59):
No, no, I wonder if part of this is just comparison, okay,
being of course the problem because like it is, is
always greener.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
Yeah, it is interesting to think that, like even me
living my best life is someone else's slump. Okay, yeah,
like there you know, there are some really successful people
or you know, like I know people who are so
like motivated and they got ideas and they just got
a million things happening, and they just they're doers, right,

(25:32):
and they just they just get after it and they
just get things done.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
And I think of like, yeah, what, oh No, I
don't feel that's me at all.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
I feel like I'm lazy.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
I feel I feel he shoots three over par like
a joke, like what one or two? Three? That's like a.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Older like that's not an eagle and par by the way,
it's considered average, that's average.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, the three worse than average? Yeah, yeah, exactly, thank you,
thank you. Everybody. Not an ego, not a bogie, an albatross,
okay or a turkey if you're browling. Yeah, so many birds.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Okay, So you're saying like this could be a comparison thing.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
I think so everyone.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
It's always dangerous comparing, especially if you're getting news about
people off of their social media accounts, because then like
people who aren't that busy look a lot busier. People
who are super busy might not look busy at all. Like,
I don't know, you're you're even if you're having conversations,
you're just getting what people are presenting to you. Even then,

(26:42):
like it's it's a dangerous game to play the how
am I doing compared to this other person?

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, because I mean if I'm self reporting, I'll say like,
oh I'm in such a slump, even though I may
not actually feel that way. Or who you're talking to
exactly the opposite. Yeah, I mean, you know, really go
shine shine this piece of turn up. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
I think there's also something to be said for the
loss of novelty, like especially this person's sound like they're
a college student. Yeah, and whenever it's like, oh man,
I'm just not as attentive to my lectures as I
used to be, Like yeah, no shit, dude, But senior
writis is a fucking thing. Like by the time you
get deeper into your program of study or into your
career or whatever it is in life, a lot of
the novelty has worn off. Like I talk to people
that are all the time that are like, I'm just

(27:24):
not doing as much for my kids as I used to,
and I'm not you know, decorating my house, taking them
special events, or like I'm not doing all this and
it's like, yeah, because you used to do that, and
like the novelty has worn off of that, it's not
as exhilarating, you're not as motivated to do it. And
I think we're trying to normalize some of this slump
as a natural sort of decline, right, Like there's like
this kind of diminishing returns action that I think happens

(27:47):
over the course of years and doing the same subjects
and living the same life something does kind of give.
I think that there's like a well worn rut that
people kind of go into. But it's because of like
a worn path in the woods, right, Like you've been
using the same path for so long. Yeah, you're in
a little bit of a rut.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
Yeah, I think that's really valid. And probably probably a
big part of this. We do seek novelty. Our brains
are were seeking dopamine. We're seeking those exciting moments, and so, yeah,
having a routine that can definitely just feed the mundane.
I wonder if you mentioned, let's see being complacent doing

(28:26):
the bare minimum and you want a sense of control
over your life and actually enjoy living again. My favorite
question to ask people when they kind of are in
a similar mindset or they're trying to think of like
I just want my life to be better, but they
can't like quit quite put their finger on it, is
I really like to go the miracle question or some
version of that from solution focus therapy, because it helps

(28:50):
me get a better idea of what would be different
in their lives.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Asking the miracle question because the audience does.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, So the.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
Miracle question is basically some version of like, oh, if
you went to sleep tonight and a miracle happened, but like,
how do you know a miracle happened?

Speaker 1 (29:06):
You know, you were just tripping balls from that acid
you took.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
It feels different.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
But every morning at Jacob's house, every morning he wakes
up and Angel flutters away from his bed and He's like,
was that one real? I don't know, you're describing the
same thing.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
If you think a miracle happened, didn't It'll be.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Like, oh, so what happens from when you open your eyes?
What do you notice? What do you see? What do
you feel? What are you noticing around you?

Speaker 4 (29:32):
What is different from your day to day now that yeah,
basically and so so some people will like, oh, we
can't help that.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Sorry a pianist speech problem, speech.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
You think?

Speaker 1 (29:58):
So, yeah, it's hung like a huge.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
But yeah, so the miracle question can help me and
the the client I'm working with, like get an idea
of what would actually be different in your life. And
a second thing that I've started to find really helpful
with clients is a lot of times we work backwards.
So what are you know seeing? Oh at night, I'm exhausted? Okay,

(30:26):
what did you do during the day? Okay, well, like
you woke up that morning, how late did you sleep?
And like, oh I keep snoozing my alarm? Okay, well
what happened the night before? Like we kind of just
go backwards and work through their day, and a lot
of times that will help them gain insight into maybe
like you not getting what you want done that afternoon.
Isn't about like well power during the day. Maybe you

(30:47):
like need an extra hour sleep, And what's keeping you
from getting that extra hour sleep? Is it because you're
a new parent. Is it because you're on your phone?
Is it because your partner snores? Like what's keeping you
from getting what you need to then have a little
more capacity to maybe do what you're wanting to do
throughout the day.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
So I like that now. I like that working backwards
saying I really like the point about the miracle question
because I think we have to define this stuff because
a lot of people come into therapy and will just
describe like a general malaise to be like, I don't know,
I feel apathetic. I feel like I'm driving on flat tires,
and like that's important to me, Like, you know, your
emotional state is important, and I want a monitor for
things like depression. I want to but I also want

(31:23):
to figure out what it is, like if the problem
is I feel low and that lowness and that disinterest
is manifesting into the actions of my life, and here's
how I can measure that that works better for me,
Like I want to know what you're doing differently if
you're like, oh, last semester, I took this class and
I read every page of the book, and then I
took the test. This semester, I only watch the lectures.

(31:43):
I watch the video on two X speed, I wing
the test. I used to strive for an A plus.
Now I'm totally fine with a B. And I move
on what's wrong with me? I want to again, I
want to start to my first point about I think
you may just be optimized. Like I think that you
may have just become really efficient at go through these
woods and finding all the shortcuts. You're no longer exploring
with this, like you know, interesting zeal and curiosity every

(32:06):
single page, Like you've just become sort of like into
a routine of it. It's lost novelty. And I don't
know that there's anything wrong with that, though it can
be underwhelming because it's so familiar, it's not fascinating anymore.
So I think that that's part of it. But like,
I don't know, Like I'm still open to the idea
that like a person's in malaise, they're having apathy, they're
feeling low, how do we dial into finding motivation? And

(32:31):
this is something Nick that especially as we get to
close out twenty twenty five and we start looking into
twenty twenty six. A lot of times in the first
quarter of twenty twenty six, especially in personal training, this
is what a lot of people are like starting to
ask exactly that question. Like they're going through those winter months,
they've kind of got settled into this complacency. They feel like, man,
I've allowed myself to become a slump. I've allowed myself
to like get into bad habits. I've put on my

(32:52):
winter fat. There's that, you know, I've I've found this
winter beefiness, and I want to shut the pounds or
I want to regain health. But I think a question
that a lot of people wrestle with is I recognize
that I mentally want to see this change, but stirring
myself to action, how do I go from the couch
to the gym? How do I go from complacent into motivated?

(33:17):
That's a big question I think a lot of people
have to start with before they can get into the
gym and sign up for a program that you're doing
or do anything in life.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Well, I think it's like it's not even just like
the gym, but like anything that you're going to do
or practice or learn. It doesn't become motivating until you
start to see results. And oftentimes you don't see the
results right away right, you know, or they're not really
meaningful results. And that could be anything from yeah, like

(33:46):
getting in shape, or learning in instruments, learning a second language,
learning something.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Like that, proving your grades and a career.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
And oftentimes it's like the motivation increases exponentially at first,
and then you reach a plateau or even dip down
because like you know, like I mean, I remember learning
how to play guitar for the first time, and it's like,
you know, the first thing I learned was something really
really really simple, like one string, being able to put

(34:20):
together a few notes to play Maryhead a little lamb,
and it's like, oh, really quickly, I can just do that,
you know, you learn that in five minutes, you know,
And then it's slowly you learn a little bit more,
and then it becomes more motivating. But then all of
a sudden, shit gets really difficult and complicated quickly, yeah,
and then it's like, oh, now I have to work
really hard, and I'm not seeing the results as quickly

(34:43):
as going from zero to ten you know, it's a
lot harder to go from ten to twenty. So I
think that's the challenging part. And for most people it
really comes to just you have to kind of create
a pattern of behavior. We're no longer you no longer
look at it as like an option, like, oh, should

(35:04):
I do this thing today or should I not? It's
just like, okay, well it's six pm. This is when
I do this thing.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
It's like a program.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Yeah, this is this is just when it is.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Sometimes, especially when you're starting it, when you're when you're
getting into that habit, it's just gonna feel like work. Yea,
it is, absolutely and it will be joyless and you're
not technically motivated for it, which is an interesting, I
think thing. A lot of us. I think, feel, why
can't I summon the motivation to make this change? And
I kind of hear you saying the motivation will arrive

(35:35):
after action, Like it starts with a choice, and it
starts with deliberate action, and then motivation will arrive as
you see the results and as you get to experience
the exhilaration of something changing, then you'll feel more motivated
to go. It'll feel more downhill, but in the beginning.
It's an intentional choice, and it's designing a program that

(35:55):
you're going to follow and then methodically routinely doing that,
which I can really sum up what Jim just said.
It would be fake it. So you make it. Oh
there it is there. It hasn't been a while, it's
gotten a classic.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, that is clos.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
This is also where you know, real life is so
much different than video games because video games have this
ship figured.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Out well, not like the SIMS. The SIMS is real life.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
But like if you're playing a new video game, like
they've got it scaled perfectly.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Right, so they always skill level is matching.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
It's always matching. The reward is always matching your skill level.
Like they got it down to a science. So they
keep it very addicting.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
They've just learned how to jump and wouldn't you know
it this boss you jump on his head.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Yes, and then the next level is all about jumping, right,
So yeah, I mean, and that's yeah, it's a challenging.
There's no easy solution to that.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
There's no easy I think that's still based out of
comparison to though, because you know, I think we watched
people on the internet or TV and we they just
love working out every day. They never never not love
working out because look how fit they are and how
easy it is. And it's like, know what I hear
the most common is like, hey, this has just become
a habit for me to where yes, I am addicted

(37:12):
to those visual like results as well, but that doesn't
mean I want to go to the gym every day.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
I know we've said it in here before two.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
But I think it's just a really good reminder because
we are flooded with like people trying to sell you
shit and like just suck you in and it's like, look,
come give me your time, give me your money, and
look how happy I am. You can do this too,
And it's like, no, it's not, that's not reality. Reality
is boring and like just.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Getting into a habit, yes, just getting yourself into a habit.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yeah, And I know, like you know there, I've heard
professional golfers say this. I'm sure it's probably the same
for professional musicians, where they're not always just doing it
and having a great time.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
A lot of it is like I gotta do.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
This, you know, I have to always think this for
like singers or you know, famous people like are they
just sick and tired of singing that song against God?

Speaker 2 (38:05):
They're so sick of that song, whatever song it is like.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
That, or even like just being a male model and
just being really really really ridiculously good looking. You know,
it's like, oh, we know, yeah, we know, yeah, we
all know all you and I know I'm not ann
Yeah I can't turn that. Yeah, but you know, writer,

(38:30):
another thing in this that I think, I think another
thing too that goes along with this is sometimes like
you were saying, Nick, and I think you know, as
Jacob said, better fake it to you make it. There's
another piece of this which is accountability, you know, and
support that sometimes somebody bearing witness to this and and
holding you accountable, checking in on this, measuring this alongside

(38:51):
of you is actually really helpful, which is why a
lot of people. Yeah, they could go do their own
push ups, they could go to the gym and figure
it out for themselves. But something about this arrangement where
they're partnering with somebody that's monitoring them, it's coaching them,
that's pushing them, that's following up on them. It goes along.
I will meet them at eight o'clock, right, I have
an appointment at eight o'clock. Another human is involved, whether

(39:14):
I want to do it or not. I'm paying for it,
I'm in I'm obligated to do this, And there's always
those options everywhere in life. Writer, could be signing up
for a study group, you know, if you're a student,
it could be signing up. As we talked about another
episode recently about how to Learn Better, Nick, you had
shared that you sent a first out of a group
in which you taught the material, and like that that
forced your hand. You had to learn it really well

(39:35):
because you didn't want to let these other people down,
and you obligate yourself. So sometimes, Writer, there's a novelty
in changing something and signing up for something and adding
accountability to the journey, as Whitney said, in it atomically
deducing what the changes are in a visible way that
you want to see, as Jacob said, faking it until
you make it so that you can start with that,
as Nick said, building the routine and committing to the

(39:56):
action before the motivation arrives, allowing them to motivation to
come secondarily. But too many people fail to act because
they're waiting for motivation to descend upon them, Like some
dove from the sky. It's like they'll it'll arrive one day.
And actually, no, I don't think that's the case. I
think a lot of people don't be like start off
as the warrior. They just fucking stormed the beach, screaming

(40:19):
and crying and dodging bullets, and they become the warrior
in the war because the situation calls for it. You
just you rise to the challenge that you throw yourself upon.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, it doesn't just like fall from the sky onto you.
This is life, not a boukcocky video. Oh there it is. Yeah.
And then that's actually a famous pod therapy bumper sticker
that I think fred obviously Freud.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Yeah, there was a hockey analyst I remember watching back
in the days, Like I remember watching games and they
were talking about, you know, somebody was talking about like
a garbage goal, like somebody scored a goal is like
just a complete fluke, you know, it just happens, you know,

(41:04):
And somebody would say something about, oh, that's just a
lucky goal. But he would always cracked them. He'd be like, well,
he's like, no, luck is when preparation meets opportunity, right.
This person was there they were in the right spots.
They needed the puck to bounce the right way, but
it did, but they were ready for it. Yeah, you know,
so you may say it's lucky, but you know, it

(41:26):
was an opportunity that presented itself to somebody who was
prepared to.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
I do lastly, just want to throw in there, think
about talking to a doctor. I mean, if it's been
like two years you've had this kind of like low lying.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Depression, like the regular blood panel doesn't test for it,
it doesn't picking.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Yes, I think that's worth talking to a doctor about.
If you're just really feeling that lack of motivation, talk
to your symptoms, talk about your symptoms to them and
see what they say. It doesn't mean you have to
take the medication, doesn't mean you have to go fill
the prescription.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
But just talk to them what they say. And I
don't know, I think that's valuable.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Here a good follow up point. Yeah, because you didn't
say how old you are. It sounds like you might
be in college, but we don't know. But yeah, you
could like you might have like you might have like
low T or something that's gonna As for that inject
a turkey based your amount of horse semen into your
fucking things like just you know, drop, yeah, just that's
it fun, God damn it. So you got that going

(42:31):
for you. We're gonna take quick break and when we
come back, we're gona talking about therapy in Espanol. You're
listening to pop Therapy.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Today's episode is brought to you by Sky Scoop Mason, Miller,
Test Miller, Miler, Teen, Harris, Teen, Monaco, Oscar Swans, Anna, Marie,
Emma Kine, Myra and Sam Cone. And if you would
like to sponsor the show, become a therap producer Patreon
dot com. Alright, here we go, Whitney, Whitney, I'm gonna

(43:06):
scroll down, scroll down the show.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
I'm not editing.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Sorry, no you shouldn't either, Okay, just stalling, all right, Whitney.
You're going to get an easy one easy and that
if I get like, if I get it wrong, the
traditional military beret is tilted in which direction is it tilt?

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Let's see, So when.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Did the guy who was running for New York mayor
was he wearing his beret tilted in the correct direction?
Because I know which direction he was wearing it.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
Okay, here's my guess, because i heard once from a
guy in the Marines that when they salute it's like
to lift your hat or.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Something like that. I think it's to the right.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Oh, it's my guess, correct, nice? All right? Yes, yes,
I remember that scene in The Last Castle with Robert Redford,
and he explained that that's what the salute was, is
that knights used to lift their vis to show their
face to their opponent as a form of respect. What
you could do with your left hand, Yeah, but that's
the hand you wipe your ass with.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, exactly. You don't want to do both. Yes, fifty
to fifty, baby, So.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
You got that one. I'm stalling for you, all right, Jacob,
there you go.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Some of these are way way, way too easy.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Save those for Jim. I need that toss those Jim's way.
This is why you shouldn't make it up.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Well, I gotta do this.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Jacob's dying, Jacob is the best part.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Of the show. Jacob. I think you probably already know
this one, Okay.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
The tall shape of a chef's toke hat was originally
meant to show what.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
The shape of the along their penises.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Don't give it away. The shape of the top of
their head. The horribly elongated head shape chefs have. All
chefs are horrible deformitive. The heat the ovens misshaping their head.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
It feels taller the longer they've been shoving.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
I think, are there options for this? Or is just
off the off the fly? There are? But I think
you know this, chef, I want to be overthinking this.
Then maybe are because I think each fold in the
hat it has to do with a like a cooking discipline,
oh that they have mastered. Oh wow, Although I might

(45:56):
be making that geese, is that is that the right direction?

Speaker 3 (46:01):
I'm gonna give you full points, Okay, okay, okay, because
I think what you're saying is just a different way
of saying rank and experience. Yes, oh wow, And that's what.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
That's means, is about the Oh I thought you said?

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Well, it did say folds looking.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
For his foreskin. It folds down over the hats to
expose the shaft, the shaft, which is yeah, that's what
I said, the shaft shaft, talking about shaft? Can you
dig it? All right? Someone's gonna read a question. I'm
just gonna take the l I just don't care.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Why do police officers in the UK wear domed custodian helmets.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Protect their skulls.

Speaker 6 (46:51):
I think that's what it is.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
It's bobby hats or whatever the they wear. Yeah, it's
just to protect their head. Let's do that. Three these suck. Yeah,
construction worker hat. You see the curvature of the hat
reveals experience and wisdom.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
You're an electrician. You have more folds and wrinkles on
your hat anch faults on the head. I have officially
exhausted all hat trivia. Who I think we can move
on from.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
It all right? Next question is therapy in Spanish? Gerida,
you do say Whitney bombastico, jcob stoico, Nick, sono tiempo
e final minte iona though, fuck it, I'll read it
in English for you idiots. Dear sweet Whitney bombastic, jacob

(47:51):
stoic Nick and supple gem. I've been a long time
listener and have finally raised supple yes and she transplated.
I believe to fly Spanish, and I have finally raised
a big enough erection to send in a question. I'm
a bilingual graduate student studying to become a therapist, licensed

(48:12):
clinical social worker, like Whitney, specifically so I can serve
Spanish speaking communities in my area. Recently, something happened that
has me furious and questioning whether I should file a
formal complaint. A client juicy, here comes the tea or,
as they say in Spanish, l tay. A client from
our local Spanish speaking community needed a mental health evaluation

(48:34):
in therapy. They found a therapist whose profile claimed they
were bilingual. When the client arrived for their appointment, they
discovered the therapist wasn't actually speaking Spanish. They were reading
responses off of Google Translation. I'm shocked and hurt for
the client. They were already vulnerable seeking help, and they

(48:55):
were treated with what feels like complete disregard. The client
has growing suspicions of future therapists, and there are mental
health issues that continue to go unresolved. This therapist advertised
a skill they didn't have, presumably to expand their client
base and income. Using a translation app for therapy isn't
just inadequate, it's dangerous. It's as if this ignorant succubus

(49:18):
of a rhinoceros anus forgot that therapy requires nuance, cultural competence,
and genuine human connection. I know private practice can lack oversight,
but this feels like a clear ethics violation. Am I
right to be this angry? Do I have grounds to
report this therapist to their licensing board? Or is this
one of those gray areas where technically they didn't break

(49:41):
a rule even though they clearly caused harm. I'm struggling
between my rage at this injustice and wanting to take
appropriate effective action. Thank you for your time and consideration
of putting six inches of corn fed throbbing brought worst
in Jim's waiting orifice. Pew pew, mother truckers with rain, Yeah,
and compassion. The offices of counselor and counselor parentheses, My

(50:05):
partner is in the legal profession, and how that explains
the counselor and counselor bit I just wondered about that.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Not enough to ask this is wild?

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Wow, that sucks Like that is Danish. This is even
a question about therapists, ethics or anything. This is This
feels like just a question of false advertising.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Yeah, this is completely misrepresenting your skill set by that rationale.
I'm also multi lingual, Yeah, all the languages I speak
Morse code, yeah, I speak Braille, I speak Egyptian Hyrid lifts.
I mean if just being able to look something up
on the fly is expertise. I'm also a neurosurgeon, right exactly.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
And it feels very exploitative, like.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
It certainly is disrespect full is the right word, right
the writer you said disrespectful dangerous to the culture.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
To like a culture of people like what are you
gonna do an in therapy with like if that was
just the assessment or the first session, like what what
are you doing?

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Like oh my god, can you imagine doing this in
a medical appointment, like I mean, and just like the
disrespect of that to say, like, oh, yeah, we speak
Spanish at this office, like great, so you go you
make the appointment, you go in and this person just
speaks Spanish and they're finally working up the courage to
tell you about their health, very nuanced things about what
they're going through, and you're sitting there Google translating that shit.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
You're like holding your phone to their face and then looking.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
At it being it seems to be some kind of
rash in this place, like great, it's like that it
is way too nuanced, Like that is so dangerous to
do in healthcare?

Speaker 4 (51:44):
Oh my gosh. You know what, though, I like this
question though, because yes, it's shocking to hear it. It
does tap into an area where you're like, right, okay,
I guess literally, it's not written down, don't use Google Translate.
We just it's like anything else. We didn't know there
needed to be a rule. Okay, I guess now there
needs to be a rule because somebody fucking.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
For a long time we were having casual sex with
our clients, and then a couple of therapists sucked it
up for everybody having formal sex. Yeah, if you keep
it on the friendship lefton, it's fine. Don't wear a
tuxedo business casual sex. The cardigan was enough.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
I think you absolutely report the report it. I mean
they'll investigate if.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Because what they're kind of asking is like, if I
report this is something going to come off it? Right? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah, I feel like the way is to leave a review.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
That's that's a good move. How do you, okay, curious?
How how do we feel about if you know a
colleague has done something like this and you you want
them to learn about it. Do you are how comfortable
are we just calling the colleague and saying, hey, I've
I've become aware that you sometimes do this I think

(53:02):
your heart's in the right place. I think you're trying
to do something good in the world. I speak this language,
I am part of this culture, and I just want
to fix your blind spot. Here about how my phone
call would sound. My phone would be like, not really
doing this? Are you what you were doing this? Mother? Stupid?
You can't really be doing double dare you?

Speaker 3 (53:24):
My client told me you were doing this. I said, no,
there's no way, this fucking stupid. You're not right, right,
I think, just tell me, tell me you're not lie
to me.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
No, I think like, yeah, if you.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Were doing this, Jim, and I heard this from other clients,
I would reach out to you and I'd say, hey,
take this off your website, right, this is this is
what this this is how this happened.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
That's you're saying. If yeah, you know, but not somebody
you know, just through the through the grapevine.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
No, if it's somebody that I like, a new client
that said hey, my last therapist and you don't know that.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
You that's what I'm oh.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Yeah, No, No, if it were you and the same thing,
I would reach out to you. I'd say, Hey, that
was somebody they told me this is what happened. I
looked at your website it says this. If that's what happened,
take this off your website because as a friend, I'm
warning you this is not going to go well right

(54:25):
if you don't, if you fix this yourself.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
The answer to the questions and would an idiot do this, Yes, yes,
an idiot would do. But you wouldn't give them a
heads up? What if?

Speaker 4 (54:39):
What if?

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Why? I don't owe them? I think there's an interesting question.
If it was not Jim, it is a colleague of
gyms that you don't know. So it is the colleague
of a colleague, so you have access to them. You
can get word to them.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
If if Jim supervises the person, I would talk to Jim.
If it's just Jim, not I probably wouldn't say you.
I don't I don't think I oh, I don't think
I have I don't owe anybody that obligation. Here's the
other thing too, The client can report it like the
client can go directly to the boord. I don't have

(55:15):
to be involved at all.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah, you could just tell them this is the number
you need to call and say something.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Yep, you need to let these people tell these people
what you just told me, because this is not okay. Yeah,
And I you know, I know colleagues who speak There's
one person particularly I can think of that speaks fluent Spanish.
She in college, did like a semester abroad in Spain
and just live there and speaks.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
It very well.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Yeah, And so I asked her once, It's like, oh,
have you ever thought about, you know, doing private practice
because there's a lot of people, there's a big need
and you've got this amazing talent, like you could be
doing this.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
In Spanish.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Yeah, And she's like no, no, no, She's like, I
can communicate Spanish, I can't do therapy in Spanish.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Ah, there you go.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
And she made a really good point that, like that's
a different thing. That's not just because you can speak
Spanish and you can, you know, don't that does not
mean that you can do therapy.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Yeah. Yeah, that is so true.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Like knowing the culture I think Whitney said earlier, like
knowing the culture of of of a group that may
or may not speak a language, like that's that's going
to be important.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
That's big.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
So I think we all universally agree with the writer
and still hung.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Up on who's telling.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Her. The only reason why I think it does get
a little bit more nuanced, so like, and the only
reason this is fresh in my mind is because I
just taught classes where we had to go through the
ethical codes, and like, one of the things that's in
the NBCC code and in the ACA code. I just
looked it up. It's also in the social work.

Speaker 4 (56:50):
Yeah, I was looking that up again because social workers
have some of the strictest cards.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
But they didn't say that the other person was an
l C s W.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
I don't think they didn't, but yeah, but the codes
are pretty harmonious across the codes. They they all basically say,
if you a professional become aware of another professional's malfeasance,
your first step is to contact that professional directly and
try to front them on it and talk to them directly.
So the code doesn't want you to immediately go to
a board. The code doesn't want you to entangle the client.

(57:18):
The code wants you to go one to one to
the other human because you're both gatekeepers of the professional.
That's that's the official to do. That's, yeah, the official
to do.

Speaker 4 (57:27):
Matous I thought it matters how like egregious the action
was or.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Not It does depend on howgregious. It's like you're sleeping
with sleep, Like, hey, sleep, you're running a criminal that
you're wearing a tuxedo. You're ruining this for all of us.
Up you know the code? No, but then right, I
would encourage you. I would encourage you to look up

(57:55):
the code that your state requires. You know, it's probably
the social worker you know ethics code. But at least
from what I'm reading, there is a pretty clear line
that says, look, one of the steps that we want
you to do is to contact the other professional. Which
I think Nick's agreeing with me. He's just saying, like, look,
I would much I'd do that much more comfortably if
I knew the other professional. I don't want to just
call this other person out of the blue and say hi.

(58:17):
But also, I think you're in a weird position because
you also do gate keep the profession a little bit
like you're also part of the training teams and like
the inspection teams. So I could see a situation where
for you it could be a weird conflict of interest
of like, am I calling this person as a fellow
licensed counselor and we're both peers because I also adjudicate
their program, and so like, am I calling them as

(58:38):
an authority figure? Then I feel like that's a little
out of range. I shouldn't just be doing that, like
you know, because now I'm overstepping out of my authority.
So I could definitely see for you where that would
be a conflict. But I think if you see this
other professional just as a peer, you're not an authority
position over them. From what I'm reading in the codes,
I think there is a strong argument that says you're

(58:59):
within your rights and your within best practices to first
contact them. Yeah, And in the scenario, I would contact
them and say I'm a member of this culture, i
speak this language, I'm studying to do this, or I'm
a future professional. I am concerned because it sounds like
you're doing this. I don't think you realize where there
are harms. I don't think you realize why this is bad.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
And if that's in the Code of Ethics, which sounds
like it is, then I definitely agree with that. Then
that's the right step. I mean, it's pretty much written
down for you that's what you need to do. Now,
if I'm reaching out to that person, I wouldn't make
it about me. That's where I would do it differently. Okay,
so instead of saying like, well I'm learning this or
I speak this language, and like I wouldn't even bring
it about me because it has nothing to do with me.

(59:39):
The problem is is you're advertising that you do this
skill and you don't do this skill, right. You need
to fee the internet does this skill. You are not geminos.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Yeah, you are not judging people well.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
And that one has an easy follow up.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
You're like, hey, remove this from your site or as
an option, and you can go check a week later
or two days later and see if they removed it,
like versus other things.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Are you s know your clients still?

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Right? You never know? I sometimes get involved in this,
Like on the Therapist of Las Vegas book page, there
will be people that will post like some pretty I
think pretty bad therapists have their own neighbor. It is
so I am the karenist Karen of this whole fucking Yeah.

(01:00:23):
Like some people post on there like that they do
whatever psychedelic therapy or whatever the fuck, and like I'll
try not to put them on blast in front of everybody.
I'll usually try to DM them. This is the about
a law on this topic. You probably shouldn't be advertising
that you do this. You're admitting to doing a class.
De fellon me like this is a bad idea, and
that you're also teaching all of our interns and all

(01:00:44):
the other people in the community that this is an
okay thing to do. And so I'm about to get
on here and blow your ass up for public knowledge
so that nobody imitates you. Or you can go delete
this right now and think about what you've done. And
a lot of times they say, go fuck yourself, Jim,
and then I get on there and then now we
have a fucking flame war.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
So no, I've had a friend who's like, hey, I
saw your podcast posted on therapists.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
It was when you're asking for like I was like,
oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
I ran into one of them the other day. Did
you one of the people that you brought on whenever?
Was it when they were were Yeah, it was Janet
and uh yeah, we had two other guests. Yeah, it
was one of the other two. Okay, very cool guy. Okay,
there you go, Jared doctor Jared. Yes, great guys. Yeah,
we had the other night he came and saw absent.
The other night he came and saw it with another

(01:01:34):
an old friend of mine. You recognized it. He recognized
all that, Okay, I recognized.

Speaker 5 (01:01:39):
Shocked.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
I was like, Jacob, Yeah, that's so cool. What a
small world. That's awesome. As listeners, you can go back
in our previous episodes. I have no idea what number
it is, but we had an episode where Nick and
Whitney were out of town and recruited three other therapists
to stand in for them, and it was lovely and
they had great answers to the questions and they all
have different areas speciality, which was really a US back,
so that was good. Yeah. Yeah, I decided they stopped

(01:02:02):
returning my calls and so here we are. Also Nick
legally owns the show, so there's not a lot about that,
so he's just here. But anyway, writer, you're on the
right side of injustice on this your outrageous perfect Yeah,
you're you're right. And also, I think this is a
great teachable moment to a lot of other people who
they'll talk themselves into thinking they're doing something good, like
they're oh, I'm helping this underserved population. I'm just using technology.

(01:02:25):
But there is such a fundamental chasm of understanding when
you do speak time that. Yeah, you can put that
on your website. We have translation. I use technology for translation. Yeah,
if that's okay. Yeah, they'd be fully informed.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
They have to know that that is true before we
start this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Yeah, we use artificial You can't say we are bilingual.
Yeah it is. We have chat GPT.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Yeah, that is what is known as informed consent.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yes, that's the whole fucking idea. You informed them. Also,
you're funneling our entire session through AI. I don't know
how I feel about that. Chat GPT is being indicted
by the New York Times. There required to save all
their files.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Like I just thought it was like Google Translate.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
I think they just said to Google. I wonder to
what extent is that hippoco Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
You know, there's a lot of good questions here, but
you're on the right side of the issue. Writer. Yeah,
I would encourage you, if it's something you could, you know,
feel comfortable doing, going to your colleague directly or anonymously
and just saying, hey, look, you're advertising you do this,
you don't, and that's dangerous. I think you should stop.
And I'd like to follow up in the future and

(01:03:24):
make sure you're not doing this anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Stop.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Let's just ask to what extent are you hippo compliant.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
You can't just ask the internet that man to write
to you speaking French. If a doctor says they are
bilingual on their website and they are in fact not bilingual,
is there a legal or ethical issue with that? And
uh and yeah, it's a lot of stuff. Yeah, there's
a lot of answer is yes, yes, it is not good.

(01:03:53):
But before you go to a board, I do think
that the correct ethical thing to do is to talk
to them directly. You are a fellow gatekeyp of the profession.
We are meant to be a self regulating healthcare discipline,
so regulate. And that's exactly what the Board of Examiners is. Regula.
I knew if I regularly dark. Yeah, we're gonna take

(01:04:15):
quick break. I think we're out of hat trivia, right, Yeah,
we gonna take quick break and then come back and
wrap up the show. We're out of the business of hat.
We were out of hat trivia. Two breaks again. Today's
episode is brought to.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
You by Mason Miller, Test Miller, Builer, Te Paris, Team Monico, Oscar, Swanrose, Hannah, Marie,
Emma Kine, Myra and Sam Cone, and you would like
to sponsor the show become a therap producer at patreon
dot com slash there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
As we wrap up the show, we want to remind
you you can sign up a Patreon dot com slash there,
but you can get our extended show ad free a
day earlier, and you can enjoy our live chat, discord
community and our sporadic deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research
roundups and rants. As we told you at the beginning
of this show, we did record this one in the
deep dark past of November ninth, so if you have
signed up at patron dot com slash therapy after that,

(01:05:05):
as of this recording, we do not know, so we
will shout out to you in a future episode. Thank
you very much your support. There you go, don't forget.
You can also name our show or name the studio
that we record in at patron dot com slash therapy,
but boy do I prefer you not do that. We'd
like to thank because I'm a revere, generous and flagrantly
pro therapy diehards who love you all so much they
give till it hurts. Our therapy partner Pickett, and we

(01:05:29):
want to thank our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati,
members of the fan Club, the Therap Producers, thank you.
Jake Schneider, Maira, Robert Brownie, Junior Mint, Smitty Scoop, Richard
Fucking Macy, Jody Schneider, Malia, Leon Cassab, Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain,
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(01:05:50):
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(01:06:11):
two Crimes, eli Odare and flip Blop, And don't forget
our newest person ship. Yeah, I think it was because
that was Amy Amy Amy Amy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
Yeah, sorry, I did two episodes in a row, two
scripts in a row, so I forgot to put that
on there. But if you would like to do this
episode uncut and unedited and would enjoy our spontaneous side projects,
go to patreon dot com slash therapy and thank you
for supporting mental health.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Unless you were wearing the cowboy what is this? You
don't speak that way? Have an accent succession, I don't
think our landlords, s J and the Ruckus And thanks
those of you contributed to our show today. We really
appreciate it. Remember or pod therapy isn't something to keep

(01:07:01):
all to yourself. Share the episode with the world. Teck
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Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Do you want to submit a question to the show,
You can ask anonymously at pod therapy dot next, email
us at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com, or
click the link in the episode description to be taken
to our anonymous Google form.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
I'm an next tangement, I'm Jim.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
It will see you different kind of cowboy. I watched
The Three Amigos. I am a bilingual cowboy. Goodbye everybody. Davis,
you mean your gun? Yeah bye everybody,

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